Interviewer:
Well, welcome back to the podcast. We are honored today to have the 24th governor of the state of Arizona, Governor Katie Hobbs, with us. Governor, what an honor. Welcome.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Thank you. Glad to be here.
Interviewer:
Well, first of all, congrats on the election. We're so pleased to see you as governor. Tell me a little bit about yourself. We heard a lot about you during the campaigns and everything, but tell us a little bit about yourself. Maybe something that we wouldn't see on a bio, or we wouldn't hear from your team or maybe your website.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Sure. Well, I think everyone knows now that I'm a born and raised Arizonan. I grew up in Tempe. Although Wikipedia says I was born there, and I was not.
Interviewer:
Where were you born, then?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
I was born in Phoenix.
Interviewer:
Okay.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah.
Interviewer:
All right.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah. We moved to Tempe when I was six. I have an identical twin sister, which also, she is a little more well known now than she used to be. If you see someone out in the wild with no security that looks just like me, it's probably her. She's actually a teacher in the Scottsdale Unified School District. I also have two other siblings. Let's see, something else about me that's not in my bio. I am an avid exerciser, so I get up pretty early to go exercise, give the detail a run for their money. I was on a really great running streak until I injured my foot, so trying to get back to running again.
Interviewer:
Well, I saw you in one of the runs just recently.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Well, I was going to do the Rock 'N' Roll Half, and I injured my foot in the 5K the day before.
Interviewer:
Okay. Okay, excellent. I'm assuming, for your sister, this has been an interesting ride as well. Given that there are probably some mistakes there, because people assume she's you.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Oh yeah, for sure. People see her walk in a room, think it's me, and get all excited. They're also excited to meet her, so yeah.
Interviewer:
Absolutely. Well, I think what makes you an interesting governor is the fact that you understand the legislative process. You were in the legislature. Talk a little bit about that experience and how that shaped your worldview as it relates to being governor.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah. I have to go back to what got me to the legislature. I'm a social worker, which also features very prominently in my bio, but that's really what got me into politics. I was working with victims of domestic violence and ended up wandering into the policy arena. Legislation is really frustrating, as you know. I mean, it's hard to get something past that's really meaningful, and change is usually very incremental. Even things that are seemingly non-partisan, like holding domestic violence offenders accountable. It's really challenging. I got frustrated. At the same time, connected with folks who mentored me into the political process and decided to run. Knocked on a lot of doors for Senator Sinema, when she won her first race. That was my first campaign volunteer experience.
Interviewer:
You came back after doing that, which is tough to do, right?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yes, yeah. Yes, yeah.
Interviewer:
It's hard to knock on doors cold.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
It is, it is. As a leader, I don't like asking people to do things I haven't done. I think to be a good candidate, you have to know what it's like to be out there knocking on doors. So yeah, I got to the legislature and really felt like I had an opportunity to be a voice for people that didn't tend to have a voice there. I think, for me, it's really about making government work for people. I got to do that a little bit in the legislature, and I got to that a little bit more in the Secretary of State's office. Certainly, as governor, I have the biggest opportunity to do that that I've had so far. It's something I hope I never take for granted.
Interviewer:
Absolutely. That story and talking to policymakers, that's always an interesting story. What got you there? I'm assuming getting to the legislature and having those first few weeks there were probably a lot different than what you expected.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah. I had spent some time around, so I knew a little bit of how things worked. But certainly, you don't always see the back end of the process, and there's just a lot of process.
Interviewer:
There is a lot of process, and a lot of give and take. Hopefully, right?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah, no. I think when things work well, there is give and take. Nobody likes to compromise, but that's really how the best laws are made.
Interviewer:
Well, that's how we got our constitution. Correct?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yes, yeah.
Interviewer:
I agree with you a hundred percent. First few months here in office, how's it been? Give us a little report.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
It's been really busy. I've been all over the state. We are making it a point to reach out to groups that maybe haven't had a chance to meet with the governor or have a voice with the governor, so a lot of folks up to our office on the ninth floor. But also, just getting out into communities. To really listen and hear from folks how we build an Arizona for everyone, and make sure that we're continuing on the great economic trajectory that we're on. That we're being inclusive and allowing Arizonans to thrive from the economic growth that we're experiencing.
Interviewer:
Well, I've been watching your Twitter page, your Instagram page, and you have. It's amazing how many different groups you've met with. What have you learned so far?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
That, oftentimes, people just need to feel heard. It's something I knew as a social worker, but I'm getting to put it in practice in the governor's office, and it's been really rewarding. I've approached this office as someone who's going to have an open door, even when we don't always agree, but having that open door is such an important gesture and people are really being responsive to that.
Interviewer:
Absolutely. Well, the first week of May is National Small Business Week. Or I'm sure, the first week. Talk to us about what are your administration's priority for small business, for the economy, for jobs?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Small businesses, as you know, are such an important part of our economy. Employ nearly half of our state's workforce, and we have some really good anchors. With Local First, as an example. What we want to try to do is really expand access to capital. It's hard to get a small business loan, and I think that we've been leaving a lot of federal dollars on the table that we could be leveraging, so we're going to be really focused on that. To create those opportunities for small businesses to start and grow. When I was in the Secretary of State's office, we focused a lot on business services and how we could make sure that folks that were looking to start a business had that streamlined experience. And so it was really important for us for us to get on board with the state's business one stop, and I know that under Secretary Fontez that is continuing. We're going to look for ways that we can ensure that the small businesses that are such a robust part of our economy are able to continue to grow here.
Interviewer:
Well, I'm glad to hear you talk about the red tapes side of the equation. Clearly, that time in the Secretary of State's office helped you understand that. I think for large companies, they don't love it, right? Of course not, but they can navigate it. Small and mid-sized businesses really struggled, and certainly, there's a cost to doing business when it comes to that red tape.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the larger companies have the infrastructure and the department to just navigate all of that. Not saying that we should make it harder, but no. I saw this when I was working as a social worker in the nonprofit world as well. Getting those grant applications. If you have a whole department to do that, it's much easier. It's the smaller folks that need more assistance and support.
Interviewer:
To your point about the economy, the strong economy in Arizona, unbelievably strong. What are some of the economic policies you're thinking about in terms of making sure that we're on a path of growth in the future?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah, no. I think that's so critical. I mean, I couldn't imagine coming in as governor at a more opportune time in our state. Where we are economically, the path that we're on. Just everything that's coming together to create this perfect moment in Arizona that we definitely need to capitalize on. Again, so we're making sure that all Arizonans can thrive. I think I look at it really holistically. Part of that is being a social worker, but I think also just a leader. Certainly, the tax climate is important, but there's so many things that we need to tackle to ensure that businesses have the workforce that they need to have the workers that they need. That means investing in education. Certainly, expanding STEM access for students. Dual enrollment, to get students on a path to college. Technical education programs that allow them to get into a good paying job that doesn't need a college degree.
Those are all really critical, but it starts with investing way back in pre-K. So that students are set up for success early in their school careers, or we're never going to get to that high school and post-secondary attainment that we need. That's critical. We're in a bit of a housing crisis, that's also a workforce issue, and water. We have to tackle our water issues in a sustainable way because that story is also going to hinder businesses coming here. Now, we have a foundation of excellent leadership on water. We're thriving in the middle of a desert, so we need to build on that and tackle these issues in a very comprehensive way. With leadership at the state level that can bring all those disparate interests together.
Interviewer:
Absolutely. I think, to your point, that's not a place where you can involve yourself in [inaudible 00:10:03] politics. This is real policy. It's absolutely critical, and it seems like we've done a great job so far. Now, it's the pivot for the 2.0. Where are we going to go with that? I heard you mentioned when you speak, but also just now, the idea that you want to create an Arizona for everybody. What does that mean?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Well, I think, obviously, the economy is going really well, but we know there's a lot of folks that aren't benefiting from that. Arizonans are being priced out of housing, and we're seeing homeless populations more than we've ever seen before. I think it's about the number. The increase in homelessness from 2014 is, I think, 200%. If I'm remembering that number correctly, it might be more. It's a huge number. I talked about the folks that we've invited up to the ninth floor. A lot of tribal communities. They should be benefiting from this economic growth as well, and so we're really looking at how we expand those opportunities across the state. Not just focusing on Maricopa County, but those communities that are important to our state but have often been shut out of economic opportunity. That's really what that means to me, and we're going to continue finding ways to hear from those communities and working with them so that we're all benefiting from the growth we're experiencing.
Interviewer:
Well, it sounds like there's a really strong economic development component to what you're talking about.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Absolutely, yeah.
Interviewer:
Especially when you look at the rural areas. I think you're right. There's a very big disparity in terms of the economy. In Maricopa County, for instance, and some of our rural counties.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah. Well, and I think an important piece of that puzzle, too, is broadband access. I mentioned the sort of historic moment we're in. It's not just in Arizona, but the level of federal investment that's available right now that we should be capitalizing on that will bring this economic growth. Broadband investment is a big piece of that. The bipartisan infrastructure law and the Inflation Reduction Act. By working to leverage those dollars and capitalize on that investment, we can really set ourselves up for growth across the state.
Interviewer:
Let me pivot a little bit, because I think what you're talking about is going to require some really big solutions. To your point, about the idea that we need to have bipartisan solutions. You signed a few bills, but I think Governor Napolitano's veto stamp is getting well-used.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yes.
Interviewer:
What's the path here to bipartisanship? Clearly, the budget's going to be bipartisan. I mean, there's no question. Correct? What's the path here, and how do we get out of the cycle of polarization from your perspective?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah. I mean, I've made clear that I want to put the partisan politics aside and get to work on these big solutions that are going to require people coming together, and we've had some opportunity to do that. I also made it clear I'm not going to entertain things that aren't really solving problems, solutions waiting for a problem, things that take away people's fundamental freedoms, but I think there's a mix of both going on. I've had individual conversations with legislators across the spectrum in terms of ideology. To find common ground, things that we can work on. Transportation, broadband investment, election reforms. Those kinds of things that are critical. But also, we're having meaningful conversation with legislative leadership on a bipartisan budget that can make it out of both chambers and get my signature. I don't think anyone thought we'd be sitting here less than a hundred days into the session, right at a hundred days of my administration, and having these conversations. It does show you that, even if there's a lot of places where we don't agree, when we need to, we can come together and solve these tough issues.
Interviewer:
What role do you think the business community can play in that?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
I think the business community is really critical, and that's been the case during my entire time at the legislature as well. I think we are seeing a level of extremity that doesn't always listen as much as it used to, but it's critical to have that outside voice saying, "This is important for our communities, for our state, for strategically into the future." That voice of reason, and experience of knowing what it's going to take. Some of these folks at the legislature don't know what it's like to run a business, a small business or otherwise. They are maybe there because of whatever ideological issue drove them to run for office. And so whatever the issue, the business community has often been the voice of reason, and it's really critical.
Interviewer:
Thank you for that. You mentioned earlier dual enrollment. From our perspective, more jobs than people in Arizona. I never thought I would say that, right? We struggle right now to fill these roles. I know one of the things you talked about was a significant investment in dual enrollment and credentialing for kids. Talk to us a little bit about that priority and why.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Well, workforce is an issue I hear from every business leader I talk to. Not just business leaders, but every sector of the economy. It's a huge issue impacting our state. If we're going to continue to grow, we have to have the workforce to do that. It's a win-win for Arizonans, too. Getting people into those jobs that are being created is oftentimes jobs that don't need a college degree, but might need some post-secondary attainment. That allows them to raise a family, support a family, and have good benefits. A good career is really critical, and it's part of how we... That Arizona for everyone that everyone's benefiting from.
Dual enrollment is such an important piece of that, and I had the chance to talk to a lot of students who have benefited from dual enrollment. Hearing their stories about how they grew up in families that didn't see college attainment as something they could get to. Having that exposure and access to dual enrollment while they're still in high school, first of all, shaves some of the cost of a college education off for them, but also proves to them that they could go to college even if they didn't have that example in their family, and it's so critical for getting those students into the pipeline for post-secondary attainment.
Interviewer:
Well, that point is so well taken up in our work with Elevate Ed. We're working with high schools across Maricopa County, and you hear that. "College isn't for me. It's for those kids." No. Your zip code doesn't dictate whether you go to college or not, and I love the fact that we're going to give all the Arizonans this opportunity. Certainly, to your point, there's a bottom line component as well.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah. It's certainly something at the legislature that has bipartisan support, and I'm optimistic about the budget.
Interviewer:
Absolutely. You also mentioned transportation. We had a run at Prop 400 last year, and you've talked about the importance this year. What are your thoughts?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Well, I mean, Prop 400, while it is a Maricopa County issue, it is important not just for the region, but for the state. Without Prop 400, an extension, then you have Maricopa County competing for these dollars that are so critical to transportation infrastructure in the rural areas, and so it's important for everyone. In terms of what Prop 400 has done for their region, and you can see it if you look at maps pre-Prop 400. Just the transportation infrastructure that has grown with the region. It's so important for the economy, for getting goods across the state, but also for getting people to work. For getting seniors to their appointments, families out for a night of entertainment. The transit piece of it is as critical as the transportation piece. I've made it clear where I'm at with Prop 400. A Prop 400 extension that makes it to my desk, that it needs to include transit. I'm also hopeful that it will get across the finish line, and I will not surprise anyone like the previous governor did by vetoing that bill.
Interviewer:
We thank you for that. It'd be nice to have that across the finish line. Recently, you had the first international state of the state address, which you conducted. In my memory, probably one of the first governors I can remember that went and met with President Lopez Obrador, as well, at his invitation. Why is international important to Arizona?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Well, with the president of Mexico, for sure. I mean, Mexico is our most important trade partner. You know that. We had the opportunity to talk about cross-border infrastructure projects. How important that is for our continued trade economic development in Arizona, and so it was important to show our commitment to those projects, which we are absolutely committed to. That was critical. Also, meeting with the governor of Sonora, Durazo. He sees this as a chance to reestablish a relationship with Arizona that I think had been maybe a little bit lacking previous in his terms, so I'm excited about that. The International State of the State.
I mean, Arizona is clearly on the international stage. It's a place where people, not just across the country, but across the world, want to come do business. We're right now, and I announce this during the International State of the State, a top target for foreign direct investment. We just had this huge announcement of LG. Not just the largest, but the only battery manufacturers in North America. Our office is creating an international affairs role, which I also announced during that address, which is critical to just focus on those diplomatic relationships that are going to help. At the end of the day, economically benefit Arizonans by the opportunity to expand business in Arizona.
Interviewer:
No doubt, it's so critical. Amazing announcement about LG. Do you see perhaps a chance for EV/ battery manufacturing to have a center here in the southwest in Phoenix? In this area?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah. It's happening. I mean, we're seeing us emerge as this hub of technology and innovation. Batteries are certainly a part of that, as well as the supply chain that goes into manufacturing. We're seeing, with huge investments, like Taiwan Semiconductor. With Intel, Intel's expansion. I'm actually leaving here and going to tour the new Intel. The supply chain that's coming along with them. We're on shoring, re shoring. Making it easier to do that business, because we're not relying on the supply chain that's coming from across the ocean.
Interviewer:
I agree. I think your point is well taken. I think one of the biggest surprises with TSMC was all of the suppliers that are now coming to Arizona. It's just astounding to see, and I certainly didn't anticipate that. A few minutes ago, you referenced water. I understand the White House had a group of folks here in Arizona talking about water infrastructure. Can you let us in on those discussions a little bit? Is there anything you can tell us about that?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah, sure. Well, first I want to say, I think the water conversation is so important when we're talking about this new investment in Arizona. With something that's a really water intensive process, like semiconductor manufacturing. That we're working closely with our Department of Water Resources and the Commerce Authority so that we're growing the right way and strategically. Making sure that we have the resources we need to continue down this path. That's really critical. The announcements that were made last week include historic agreements between the Fort McDowell Indian community and Gila River Indian community, in terms of water that they will leave in Lake Mead. That will help with the issues there. Coming at a really opportune time, when we've had a really wet winter. Then investment in water infrastructure, particularly in the Gila River Indian community, which is really important. Really, I think, sets up the model for the conservation that we can do across the state, across the country, and other areas that are affected by drought as well.
Interviewer:
You might not have been briefed on this yet, but just want to ask. Wet winter. I mean, looking at California. They have lakes that haven't been around for a while coming back. Is this helping? I'm assuming it's maybe just a little bit of a drop, maybe some relief, or is it significant?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
It is relief more than anything. I think with climate change, we're going to see this really cycles. Where we have more wet winters, but then also more intense drought in the summer. What that leads to then is more fuel for wildfires, which is also part of this cycle. It's a little bit of a mixed blessing. The other thing is just the perception, like, "Oh, we have all this water. Now, we're okay." SRP system is above capacity, but it comes with its challenges too.
Interviewer:
Absolutely. You're continuing to build your administration. Any department or any agencies you're really focused on right now?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Well, I mentioned the collaboration with ADWR and the Commerce Authority. I think that's really critical, as we have these continued conversations about how we continue to grow in Arizona. I think, also, what I'm really excited about is our tribal affairs. We have now tripled the size of tribal affair, from one staff to now three, and we're having really meaningful dialogue with our tribal communities. About economic development, about issues that are important to them that haven't been on the table, and I'm very excited about that.
Interviewer:
Excellent. Just as we wrap up, I think people would love to know, what's it like? You're elected, you're sworn in, you walk into that office. What is that like?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah. I think that the ninth floor has the best view in all of Arizona. It's really special. We were in the office the day before... I guess it was New Year's Day, because we took the oath on the second. It was rainy that day, and there was this rainbow, so I have a picture of that. It just reminds me of the opportunity that I have every day to help improve the lives of Arizonans. I hope I never take that for granted. I am just really incredibly grateful to Arizonans for putting their trust in me to do this. It's an immense job with a lot of responsibility, and I am really hopeful for the future of our state and excited to be leading at such an exciting time in our state.
Interviewer:
It really is. It made me also hopeful to see that the letter you got from Governor Ducey, and the fact that there's some continuity in government. The fact that they're still that.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yes, yeah.
Interviewer:
It was good to see that.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah. I think there was a lot of noise during the campaign. Some people are still making that noise, and it's way in the distant past now. I'm just focused on what we need to do to move our state forward.
Interviewer:
Absolutely. Well, I want to thank you. You've been such a delight to have. We're going to do a quick lightning round. I promise, these are easy, easy.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Okay.
Interviewer:
We'll start with the first one. First job?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Burger King.
Interviewer:
Burger King? What did you learn?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Everything is about a team. I did every job there. Fry cook, make burgers, cashier, drive through. I was a production leader. You can't do all those things by yourself. There's a team everywhere.
Interviewer:
Absolutely.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah.
Interviewer:
What was your favorite thing there?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
I liked drive through.
Interviewer:
Yeah?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah.
Interviewer:
Yeah. That's a fast one, because you've got to double task there.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah.
Interviewer:
I always feel bad. Because you pull up, and they're so... They're talking to the other person. You don't know, right?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Oh, yeah. It's a lot of multi-tasking. There was not a lot of the technology that there is today.
Interviewer:
I see so many leaders who started out their first jobs in fast food, because it was such an important training ground for them.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yes.
Interviewer:
Now, obviously, you have one of the best jobs we can imagine. But if you couldn't have this, what would be your dream job?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
In eight years, when I'm done being governor, I think I'm going to sell everything, buy a camper, and be a host at a campground.
Interviewer:
Oh, that's such a good answer. A hundred percent. I love that. Then final, a hidden talent that you might have that we might not know of?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Oh, I'm a bit of a pool shark.
Interviewer:
Really?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yes.
Interviewer:
Okay. We didn't know that. What does that mean? You like to swim a lot?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Oh, no. No.
Interviewer:
Pool? Oh, pool?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yes. Bar pool, bar pool, bar pool.
Interviewer:
[inaudible 00:28:21], how embarrassing. [inaudible 00:28:24] Governor, I screwed up. You're good at pool?
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Yeah.
Interviewer:
Excellent. Wow, okay. Maybe one of these days, we'll be able to test you on that.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Okay.
Interviewer:
Governor, thank you for spending so much time with us. Thank you for your leadership. Appreciate everything. We look forward to working with you in the next eight years.
Governor Katie Hobbs:
Thank you.