Why equity, diversity, and inclusion in board governance & decent work practices are non-negotiables with Paul Taylor

Join us as we dive deep into conversations that have big implications for the non profit and charitable sector here in Canada.

A special thank you to our knowledge partner, Carter's Professional Corporation. Together, let's imagine a stronger future. This week on Let's Imagine, we're thrilled to welcome food security and anti racism activist and non profit leader Paul Taylor. Paul is the former executive director of Foodshare Toronto. The largest food justice organization in the country and is currently co founder of evenings and weekends consulting.

Paul also teaches organizational leadership, people, resources, and fundraising at Simon Fraser university with Paul today, we'll talk about the importance of centering equity, diversity, and inclusion in board governance. And why organizations struggle to do this. We'll also chat about decent work practices and the role of the board to help advance decent work. Paul, thanks so much for taking the time to be with us today.

And where that came from is, you know, both of us have worked with consultants in the past and we recognize that consultants are often coming from other sectors. They're often coming from the corporate Canada and providing advice

and their thoughts and ideas on what solutions should be for the sector. And we've seen problems with that. So for us, it was about recognizing that we're practitioners. We love what we do, but we also love supporting other, you know, and collaborating with other organizations. So we thought we would do this work on the evenings and weekends as a bit of a labor of love. Until a few months later, we realized that, you know, that wasn't going to be possible. And it became our full time gig.

And really, you've hit the nail on the head, you know. We work with organizations across the country in a whole host of ways. But Primarily organizations that are looking to either answer a big question, refine their impact, or work to center equity, justice, and liberation in at the core of their work. So we'd walk alongside them as they do that.

In 2021 statistics, Canada released the results of a crowdsource survey that aimed to measure diversity on boards in the nonprofit sector, and this survey showed a lack of diversity on nonprofit boards, a finding that really, I think for most of us, wasn't a surprise. If another such survey was conducted today, how different or not do you think the findings would be?

I think a lot of boards have recognized the importance of engaging black indigenous and other racialized folks and key leadership roles on the board. But I think There's still work to be done when it comes to those folks accessing paid leadership positions within the organization.

I think, you know, when I go back to George Floyd's murder, one of the things I was just talking to somebody about this the other day, May 25th, 2020, I think shook everything and shook the expectations of organizations, challenged the expectations. I think after George Floyd was murdered, you know, a number of organizations reach for black squares.

Something that I think was quite performative, and I think it was really exciting because for the first time in a long time, I think there was a marked change where folks in the sector said, not good enough. That kind of performative response is not going to make a tangible impact on our lives. So it's really challenged the sector, I think, to do things differently.

Unfortunately, I think some organizations have Reached for the same kind of performative responses and you know, they grab the closest black person standing to them or the first black person that walks by or applies to be on the board or racialized person or indigenous person and says, here you go. You're on our board, but little work, I think, is done to understand why were those folks excluded in the first place?

How do those boards need and organizations need to change to be able to welcome new board members and new leadership? Yeah. When it comes to, you know, the paid roles, uh, as executive directors and CEOs and such.

What do you think are the main reasons that organizations are struggling to have broader diversity or, or are experiencing a lack of alignment on centering equity, diversity and inclusion practices in their organizations, you know, through the consulting work that you're doing, the conversations that you're having, are you noticing any patterns?

So, you know, when you look at who occupies roles in corporate Canada, particularly the roles atop of those organizational charts, you know, they're often white folks. They're often white men. Um, Now, I think those are the same folks that boards and board chairs look to when they're looking to recruit. And then, of course, you've got a bunch of folks around the table and the board is looking for more folks. And there tends to be this anybody know anybody that might be interested phenomenon.

So it's not surprising that boards look the way that they have. And I think there's a real willingness, unwillingness, I would say sometimes to ensure that the people who are most affected by the issues that organizations are working on are key decision makers within those organizations. It's a bit of a paternalistic approach. You know, they don't know what's best for them. Uh, we know what's best for them based on the formal education that we may have engaged with and so forth.

So I think in a lot of ways it's excluded racialized folks. I think that's one of the big reasons that that hasn't happened. And also the cultures of boards are also not the most inclusive. I've been on boards where, you know, I remember the first couple of couple of meetings and it's in those in between moments.

So not necessarily what's on the agenda, but those in between moments when people are breaking or people are heading home and those side conversations that I think tell people that they're not welcome or that it's not a space for them.

If you've had a history of poverty or food insecurity and navigating racism and you show up at one of these meetings and you find that there are predominantly people who haven't had those experiences and the kinds of things that they're talking about are their cottage trip for the weekend. those sorts of things. I think that's very telling for folks that these spaces are not for them.

And I just want to add one other piece that I've been reflecting on a little bit as well in this context. And it's the kind of conversations that are sometimes had at boards. You know, when you get, let's say, middle class white folks talking about equity, diversity and inclusion and those things in a very sometimes theoretical way, That's a very different experience than someone feeling like they have to justify the existence of racism and oppression and the need to change systems.

You know, this is not a theoretical conversation for many of us. This is about our lived experience. This is about justice and liberation. So I think those are some of the key barriers. Those are things that make it really difficult or harmful or hostile for folks that have been excluded to engage in board work.

With over 1, 600 charities and non profits responding, this study offers a significant opportunity to gain insights into how organizations are or are not advancing inclusion practices. In some areas, we saw a real difference in how organizations are doing business. For example, when asked, does your organization track equity characteristics, we saw huge differences. 65 percent of organizations led by Black, Indigenous, or persons of color are doing this.

Followed by 61 percent for what was characterized as other minority led organizations. And then it drops to 39 percent for white led organizations. So based on your observations working with boards and addressing some of the points that you've raised, what do they kind of need to do to change their ways of working? And think about embedding EDI principles into their work.

It's the centering of whiteness and white universalism. So I think what ends up happening is people in positions of leadership who may be white or on boards who may be white are assuming that everyone else's experience is similar to their own.

Own, you know, when you talk about the data that suggests that BIPOC led organizations and minority led organizations are tracking this data, we recognize the importance, we recognize how we've been underrepresented in the sector and that we need to change. And that the beginning part of advancing that change is actually identifying how big the problem is. So I'm not surprised with that big drop. So what needs to happen to really embed EDI principles into their work? I think some truth telling.

There's a real unwillingness. And again, I think this is part of white supremacy. It's, you know, let's not talk about the messy stuff. Let's not talk about NDAs. Let's not talk about, you know, a number of things that have been used to harm racialized folks within the sector. So I think, like many things, you know, before we can get to a place of truth and co creation and building together, we actually have to acknowledge the harm that's been done historically and actually work together.

To not just introduce go forward approaches, you know, but actually think about what does restitution look like in this context?

We're going to try and figure this out together, and we're going to invest time, energy, and sometimes resources to be able to do that, and their approaches might be different. The way they come at it might be not the same from one organization to the next, but there certainly was a common thread about thinking that this is a new way for our organization to behave, act, and function. And in a sense, be composed, maybe comprised of is very different.

the expectations have changed. There's a new, there really is kind of, you know, new way of doing things within the sector. And for a lot of folks, they haven't been supported. to lead in this new way. So I think some folks are frightened of embracing the kind of moment we're in and holding on to ways of being and doing from the past.

And there are other folks, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if, you know, that 39 percent that you cited earlier, I think some organizations, some white led organizations are being challenged very significantly by their racialized staff, by the racialized folks at the organization. Collaborates with or provide services to, to do things differently. So, you know, it's great to see these leaders embracing this kind of intentionality.

And I think some of it, some folks just recognize it's the right thing to do. And that's been the right thing to do for a long time. And some folks have required a nudge or a push.

Paying job applicants is something we also do now at Imagine Canada, thanks to your leadership. You are also a strong advocate for pay transparency. So from your perspective, do you feel that the situation is improving in our sector with organizations paying more attention to decent work? If you had a piece of advice or a question that you might pose to give leaders who want to help advance decent work within their organization, what might it be?

I think about moms at work as well, have really helped push this conversation in a big way, but I think that. Push. It's been successful. And I have seen change because some organizations are not only are they embracing this change, they're recognizing the importance, but we're also seeing some government funders as well recognize the importance of some of this work and are now starting to ask organizations about this work. So I see it coming from that direction.

But like most change, you know, I also see it coming from the folks within those institutions saying we're going to leave or, you know, we're just not paid enough. Increasing costs as exponentially as we've seen costs increase, you know, I think folks have gotten increasingly angered by low wages and their inability to afford things in their community and their struggle that many folks face to for to support their families.

But I also think what's been really exciting to me is folks recognizing the connection between racial justice and economic justice, you know, racial justice. For a long time, I think a lot of people and organizations are sorry. Even I wouldn't even say racial justice. I would say the focus was more on diversity and having, you know, diversity potlucks over lunch or this sort of thing. And I'm sure those were helpful to some, you know, in some way, people have to eat lunch.

But what's really, really important and exciting to me is recognizing that Racial justice is directly tied to economic justice. When you look at who's at the bottom rung of any organization, most organizations, I should say, in the sector and without, it's often racialized folks and racialized women. And in the context of the pandemic, I will never forget.

I like to take early walks in the morning, and I learned so much walking in my community and in other communities in the morning, and what I noticed was, at the

most dangerous time, and we all understood how dangerous it was to leave our homes, I liked looking into that transit or seeing who was waiting for the bus, and that's where I saw the inequities that exist, that's when I saw who the low wage workers are in our organizations, it's black and brown folks, and it's predominantly women, you know, doing essential work, But remaining undervalued in, in society. So this is really a really, really important piece.

And I think for a long time, organizations have advanced their impact on the backs of low wage work. And I think, again, that that part is really exciting because, um, people are saying, no, not anymore. And that's not good enough.

You know, one of the observations I've had is that many of the champions of decent work have been at the staff level, but we think about the critical role that board directors play in setting the tone and setting the structure and setting the policies for organizations. We think about board members specifically. How can they support an organization to help them prioritize decent work?

What, what do board members need to do to move their organizations?

It's doing the that labor of pushing back and saying, actually, we can't afford to do our work. Without centering decent work and without centering our people, because our people are what are driving our impacts as an organization. So, I think that's really important. Yeah, our impacts can't be built on the backs of workers that are struggling, while reputations and careers get built atop organizational charts.