Marcus Martins | First Black Missionary After the 1978 Revelation - E0037

we live an intelligent religion, the religion practiced by the members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is an intelligent religion. Don't people look, just look at what we do right at the beginning of the missionary lessons. More on counsels people when you receive these things folder and you're going to read them under, then you're going to pray. He doesn't tell us, oh when you receive these things pray. No. First to ponder first analyze and then you pray.

So right there we see that yeah. Our Heavenly Father gave us a bring and he expects us to use that body. The Holy Ghost is not going to turn us into puppets. And so no, he expects us to ponder, to pray, but to ponder again, analyze, think. Or as the, the, the, the, the, the statement he made in section nine of the doctrine God was going to, study in our minds, study in our minds.

And then when he, he speaks about, revelation section eight, section 100, Helaman 13, he says, yeah, I will speak in your mind and in your heart. For the Holy Ghost is section 111 13 the Lord says, speak the thoughts that I shall put in your hearts. Interesting statement that you're in your hearts. Interesting. Yeah. You know, you gotta be okay. It's not just feeling. Oh, I feel, I feel, I feel okay. But now translate. Try to translate what you feel. Through words and you see.

So you get what you're feeling. Filter through your intellect through the excuse you have had to, through the knowledge you accumulated in the scriptures in the words of prophets and apostles and then what comes out. And that's them insight. It's interesting word in the English language. You don't have the after you. It's a oh yeah. They don't have the one that. Quickly describes that insight to see with them the nuances, the inner workings of something. And so yeah.

So we have an intelligent religion when we have an intelligent religion and that's why, you know, we should not be concerned when we face questions. We should not be, considering that there's something wrong with me. I'm losing my testimony. You. No. God gave us a brain, necessarily. We're going to encounter things that are going to say, whoa, wait wait wait wait, wait a minute.

And then the fact that we don't have all revelations, we don't have all knowledge about principles of the gospel, then we enable us to exercise faith. That's interesting. Have some patience. So we're going to have to wait. We have to be like our father Adam. Okay. Why are you offering sacrifice I don't know, the Lord told me to do it. I'm doing it and that's faith. Same thing with a, our father Abraham. Go after your son. Okay. Okay. I'll do it next day.

Next morning he left with Isaac, and, And we tend to forget that Isaac, when he got there to Mount Moriah, Isaac became he became a willing sacrifice because when he finally got there, you know, Abraham not afraid to fire. I had to tell him what was going to happen. And, you know, Abraham was 107 years old at this point, you know, who knows, perhaps 100ft of, some traditions. And, you know, old medieval traditions state that at that point, Isaac might have been somewhere around 30 years of age.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is a land. Oh that's interesting. That was 30. That the connection to Jesus in a way. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. When he said that said, well, the Lord told me to kill you right here. He said, are you crazy? And you know, run out of there. But he didn't. So both Abraham and Isaac had the sense that, okay, I don't get it, but that's not and that's faith.

And so the same thing with us, we, we we, you know, because we have intellect, God given, even when we encounter things that sort of challenge, somehow, somehow, we shouldn't think that there was something wrong with us or our faith is diminishing. Yeah. No, the other, No, I'm sort of looking to, Let me write this way here. Trusting in the Lord. There will be an explanation. I don't know when the explanation will come, but there will be an explanation.

And so, these are some of the thoughts that I have in relation to this. Yeah. Topic that I use unintelligible religion. I, I, I gave, an actual, a major lecture at BYU Hawaii right before the pandemic in February 2020. And I thought only to the third century of an intelligent religion. Wow. That was, it was that annual Dave Dr. McKay lecture. Yeah. We had one major event, and, Yeah, in.

So, I see this is in pursuit of discipleship in Christ as something that's, requires a faith that is grounded also in intellect and that then, this faith should be. Active in, faith that is full of awareness. It's not a blind faith. I am aware, yeah, that I am being asked to do certain things that I don't understand, but I understand the pattern that the Lord has used throughout the history of the world.

And he said of the dispensations of the gospel, and I am being given the same privilege now of acting on faith, just like my father Adam, my father Abraham, my father Isaac, and so many others. And this is powerful. So, so, so this idea that doubt questions is pretty normal. It's part of life. But the idea also that, you know, the balance between the heart and the mind. I thought the word that I thought of when you were saying that was balance. It's balance. It's not just over on the heart.

They all of it, but but the it's an intellectual, a religion, right? You know, it needs to be to be able to balance it. Is that what I'm understanding? Yeah.

Well, it's what I explain to people who, you know, over the years and I've looked at literally hundreds and hundreds of interviews and I saw, twice as, Bishop and, you know, and then the mission presidency also, and people come saying there's something wrong with me because I see people going to the ball bearing testimony meetings and only to, you know, and they said, I don't feel that that. Yeah, wrong with me. And I tell them, nothing's wrong with you, nothing's wrong with you.

And then I, I tell them, look, you know what the Lord said in the Doctrine and Covenants section 46 to some of these, give them, the Holy Ghost from all that Jesus is the Christ by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus is the Christ. Yeah, it is given to believe in their words. That's one of my favorites, one of my favorites if they remain faithful. And so so yeah, I see, you know, some of us and I use this the moment, you know, you know, like, Nephi and Sam.

So here's Nephi having this all this powerful scripture, one of the stations visions, ministrations by heavenly messengers, angels and whatnot. And here's one of his older brothers, Sam, who as fathers, we read in first need for he wasn't having any of that. But whenever Nephi told him what he had seen and learned from heavenly messengers, Sam would believe. Laman and Limor would doubt, but Sam would believe it's a gift.

And so yeah, that's what the what the believing the words of those who have the power for manifestations is in itself a spiritual gift. And so I will tell people there's nothing wrong, nothing wrong with you because I don't feel, I don't feel what do you believe you're here in church? Yeah. Because you know. Well yeah. We come to church do what you don't, you know, I don't feel I'm coming. Life. I believe in God, I believe in Jesus Christ I believe this is their church.

Oh you believe so. Okay. You don't need to cry over that. You know you already believe you have you have the faith. And so, this is really powerful. Yeah. You know, so, Emerson, I think with me as a lot of these things that if I'm not having this, you know, you know, burning in the bosom and the things that, you know, nobody can describe exactly what is burning the blues. I had students in the past, you know, over my 30 years of teaching that right.

Vapor saying, now, whenever I have a heartburn, I know it's the Holy Ghost. No, it is not, you know, just think I need to ask the Lord. Oh, that's. And and so they keep thinking. It's only if I'm not weeping for not tears with tears are not, rolling down my cheeks. Then I'm not. No, you are. You are a disciple of Christ. You're doing the right things. You're still serving. You're keeping the commandments. That's what the Lord does it.

You see, having this powerful spirit is one of its stations is a great privilege, a great blessing. But it's not, let's see. A requirement for exaltation when eternal life will. Is a requirement where it's interesting. Faith, repentance, obedience to the commitments of God, including. So what is not that what is not, you know, having powerful spiritual. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, that's interesting. The distinction for the faithful in the words and these signs will follow.

Then those who believe. Who signs will follow. But there are signs that are very visible and all the signs that are not visible. It's interesting. The Book of Mormon mentions that's, how the converted Lamanites, they were what is the, even understanding, baptized by the Holy Ghost and they knew and not would not, they have changed. President Boyd, there's that. Wait, wait, wait. That's important. Right? They didn't know it. Well, president Boyd, get back.

I have that classic talk that I think it. It's a we don't have the map to talk, but we have the, a summary that was published in the Samsung magazine in January of 1983. The temple of the Lord, where he talks about, so, yeah, you know, were you was talking to when he said, how do I grow spiritually? How do I grow spiritually? And he and he on the back of sin, I could see how much you have grown in not more interesting. Yeah, true.

Even in your real body of things, it happens when you like in your real body, when you're growing as a kid, like my son's growing right now, he doesn't he doesn't necessarily think I grew a little bit today. It happens gradually. It's like a it's like a crescendo. Yeah, yeah, it's all the same. The same with, this, progression. There's a lot going on. Yeah. Just observe.

It's interesting that, what we are told, you know, when Alma the Elder gives that's, and you know, King Benjamin as well mention that the council of being witnesses of God at all times, in all places. We keep thinking externally, outward. You have to see the manifestation of the spirit of the Lord and the miracles, the physical mind looking at the manifestation of the spirit of the Lord in here as well. What does that look like? What do you mean? Well, well, you have to take stock. Look at all.

How was I five years ago? Comparison with who I am today. What have I done over this past five years. Or in my case you're going to be in a few weeks of the clock, 53 years as a member of the church. But of course, because I'm saying this, I have done this exercise and, and I can see this here, you know, I have changed in many respects. I've changed my behavior. I've changed my perspective on things, my understanding. And so I can see, I don't use the term diet to see how I've grown.

Oh, that's not it. But I see it. But I can see that I'm far more refined today than I was ten, 20, 30, 40 years ago. And and that, brings me, a great excitement for what's to come, you know, because I see, oh, my goodness. You know, I can hardly wait for the next ten years or 20 years if I'm still here, if the one keeps me here because, you know, any time, you know, I'm 66 years old, you know, anytime the Lord can call me to that mission that that's not aiming to catch years.

I understand the mission. That doesn't mean that. Okay. But while I'm here and so I can hardly wait. That's so exciting. Well let's see what's going on. And I don't have to go out of my way. I just have to live life normally. You see that's a something else that I often tell people. Look, you know, you don't need to go out of your way to look for spiritual experience, but just do the basics. Say a prayer, study the scriptures, attend the church meetings, fulfill your call.

Okay. I think the temple a little bit. Thank you. Very good care of your family. If you have a family, take good care of you, of your family. If you have, if you're married, you know, take extra good care of your spouse, even if your spouse is not a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. Be an excellent spouse, because that's really where, you know, things are really going to happen to us more often than not in our homes.

I think that most of us, yeah, what we're going to have in our lives. I'm going to meet in the chapel. I'm going to be in the meeting house. Some will be in the meeting hall, some will be in the temple, but we don't live seven days a week in the temple. We don't leave seven days a week in our church with all the chapels, but we're seven days a week in our homes. So, as we look forward them to this.

So yeah, just live your life normally doing the things that, you know, you would expect that you do in the experience, you will come, but you're going to have to look in retrospect and look, you know, I learned a few things here. Oh yeah. I think I've improved in something, in comparison with six months ago or six years ago.

And with that, we leave our very, you know, very fulfilling life. And the gospel becomes living, the gospel becomes a source of enjoying them. In fact, the earlier this week I'm here, drove with a visiting professor this spring, and, you know, it was reminding my students of something the prophet Joseph Smith thought, you know, as we approach, clearer, our views and the greater.

So if we, if we are ministering somebody who says that living the gospel of Jesus Christ, the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ as being a burden, that being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints has been a burden. Look, there was something wrong with this picture because it's not supposed to be a burden, is supposed to be enjoyable. So what is it? Are you, over? You have excessive expectations of things.

Are you having excessive, views on what is being required of you? You know, because sometimes there there is that danger which, Jacob tells us in the Book of Mormon in James chapter four, to move beyond the mark. You know, in Brazil, we have this expression of being more royal than the that in Portuguese. Well, at least the, the people hate. And the king and starting to do things just to look at, we're not, we're not being expected to do that, you know. Why do you think that is though.

Where is it. But what is it coming from though. You know, I mean from, faith it comes from. No, no, no, that, that, this, this, this idea of people. Why do people think that they have to go past this Mark? Where is that? Where's that from? But that's what I'm saying. It's when people go overboard with this and they start to think that. No, I have to do more. I'm not doing enough. I have to do more. I'm being asked to do more. I'm just being asked to do pretty, faith fail.

If you are healthy enough to fast. I think your meetings fulfill your call. He's doing the temple. You see, the ordinance, the gospel, the care of your family, the. That's what we're being. They suffer things that they cannot understand. Now that that that's something else. That's something that that's something that, you know, for people like me and other scholars and so on. On the esoteric thing, you know, you know, it's interesting.

Don't try to research, about the the chemical composition of the pavement of the streets in the summer. Okay. We don't have that. I just speculate about what happens in. Well, it's, you know. No, but which which blindness came by looking beyond the mark they must needs for for God at taken away his plain is from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, but see that they cannot understand. Yeah. You see, well, David was referring to the ancient.

These were much they wanted a complicated religion. They wanted something that was interesting, mysterious. Okay. So the Lord said, okay, I walk according to your faith. That's what if that's your faith. Okay. Here's Isaiah. Deal with him. Deal with that. Fortunately in our case no, no we were being given you know W Kimball you know and that's what I've been so hard w or and you know Gordon B Hinckley and you know Thomas, that's Monson and you know Russell and Nelson.

Thank goodness we're being given goals. Okay. Nothing mysterious, nothing complicated. And, and that's what we continue this way, in the future is that when nature walks in, Jeffrey Holland and whoever comes after. I think he's always been like that. Yeah, well, not always. Okay. Okay. Know, Yeah, yeah. Above and beyond the call of duty there. But, but, you know, you see. You random Jacob there. So, on the mark, the mark is Jesus Christ. And that's the mark.

Don't look beyond I was interested in former missionaries. In fact he was one of my assistants in the museum. Why is it, why is I significant though. Well because they see he was telling you about the president, so concerned about, you know, why didn't blacks hold the priests? What did? Why then? And so, I say I'm looking on. The more about these things exterminate. What you need to find out is, how do you feel about your heavenly father and the Savior, Jesus Christ? That's the mark.

How do you feel about them? What are your feelings towards them? What are your desires concerning God the Father, His Son, Jesus Christ? What are you? What are you? What's your desire? What do you wish to tell them? Through the power of the Holy Ghost? Everything else. Original. Once you have this direct connection with him. This is my father. My father in heaven. Perfect and perfectly loving. And this is my Savior. My Redeemer. All so perfect and perfectly loving.

And they love me and they want me back in their presence. That's their point. That's their work. That's their glory, that's their business. To help me go back to their presence, then you can see that all these other questions and concerns kind of fade. They still there. They don't disappear. But I say they are, they do they go into the back room because my connection with them, my connections not with issues, my connections are not with doctrines or beliefs.

My connection with is with the father and the son mediated by the power of the Holy Ghost, the third member of the Godhead. And, and so, and I told this missionaries simplify, simplify, focus on your access, your, you know, to your father in heaven. What do you think? What do you feel about him? Talk to him, contact him. Yeah. We are all imperfect human beings. And because of the fall of Adam and Eve, ordinarily we would not have the means to address God Almighty, the great.

Oh, we are shut out from his friends. But because of the atonement of Jesus Christ, we're given this privilege.

So it is, what I, what I tell people is, look at this expression in the name of Jesus Christ is an invocation of authority. Prayer. No, you're referring you're referring to prayer in the name of Jesus Christ. Oh, I see yes. That you're placing that stamp. Stamps. Look, you cannot talk to God. You're not good enough to talk to God. But if you use my name you listen to him. If you speak in my name, you will listen to you because of me.

So that connection is important in them both as we focus on that connection on a daily basis. And by the way, I don't know. Look, I'm not seeing anything strange here. You know, this is what we promise when we partake the sacrament. It is always remember him. No, I'm not saying anything. I'm just using, you know, more, you know, convoluted wording here, perhaps, but, it's what we bring to the sacrament. So, yeah, once we focus on that. Oh okay. So yeah the all the things they still exist.

The questions are still exist. But now I have something far more powerful to the question. Me which is my connection, my connection with God. So you feel that connection. I'm saying it means something to you is what I'm saying. That's why I'm feeling it right now I, you believe that. Yeah. But you know, of course I'm a human being. You know, there are days when, you know, there are days when I think, goodness, there is repentance. True. Of course, when things happen that, Okay, I can go.

Sorry, Lord, you know that my dad, you know, let's let's rewind. And, actually, we cannot rewind because we don't have the power to go back in time and redo things. But, it's a little different. Okay. For my one, will, I'll. I'll do better next time.

If there is a next time, I'll do better. And and that's where the principle of repentance is. You see, the difference between, being worthy and being perfect is precisely what this perfect person would never make any mistakes. But only Jesus Christ was like that. All of us make mistakes. Worthiness means that I can make mistakes, but I can repent of that. So a worthy persons, a person who still isn't perfect, still makes mistakes.

But when realizes that he or she made a mistake, he immediately will try to fix it if possible and will repent and do better. And that makes that person continue to be worthy relying. And this is what Nephi also taught in secondary study one, relying solely on the merits of him who was powerful to save just Christ. And so, so do you feel that connection? Well, you know, there are days when I feel there are days when I may not, but when I can, we begin to feel again.

You know, it's interesting that Alma the Younger asked this question when he goes to, the people of the church in Zarahemla, I want you. I'm five men. And I said, can you feel? So now you guys know that's a bunch of questions and and so yeah, he's kind to the the just seeing the, the the song of redeeming love I sent you. Can you feel that now? That's a very interesting question. Can you feel that now? Why do you think it's so interesting? Well, because, essentially I'm on the younger stage.

You know, you have to review things. You have to stop and say, look, yeah, I know I have a testimony, but can I feel that? That's when, you know, middle of the day here, you know, I'm doing things on cleaning house or I'm at work or in school or whatever, and having fun. Can I feel now that's active action that I have with my Heavenly Father? And if I feel that, you know, there's not that I'm going to call or cooking food or doing the dishes, taking all the trash, I'm going to stop working.

I'm going to stop my schoolwork. I'm going to stop, you know, swimming or playing ball. No, on the contrary, once I feel that connection, I'll say, thank you, Lord, for this great moment that I'm having here. You know, cleaning my house or, you know, playing with my friends or, you know, enjoying myself with this body of. Thank you, Lord, for this, for this blessing. You still live your life, you know, you still have fun. You still do your things.

But recognizing and always being grateful, which is one of the things the Lord means, is always remember. So yeah, you know, you we have to acknowledge his hand in all things, in all things. We have to be grateful. And so once we are always remembering, you know, we're going to be exalted, we're going to live our lives. We have a following, but we're going to always be grateful so that we live Queen, live a good life. What are you fumbling? But it's important.

I think the way you just said that, like now it's active. It's not an event. I think President Nelson mentioned that repentance is its change. It's a constant progress. It's a it's a constant. It's a constant, process. It's not an event. You got baptized and but can you feel so now? Yeah. Well, you know, are you continually turning to Christ? You know what I mean? Yeah. It's that concept, the quality control that, was, you know, came out of Japan, the kaizen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so it's that was inspired by the blood of Christ the Lord.

Yeah. I think that this is important because I feel like the principles are really applicable to to everything, you know? So you what I even what I meant to was the idea that this is obviously matters to you.

I could just feel it when you were explaining, when you had your missionary, they called you and contacted you, said they had questions and you said, look, I think even just the way you said it, I could just feel that that meant something to you, that that was very important for you to try to help him understand that.

Questions to worship you and a member of the church like everybody else, you know, you know, I've, I've had questions for some of them for decades of their for which I still don't have an answer. But as I said, for me, you're there when I have questions. I don't have doubts. I have questions, but I don't have doubts. What's the difference for you? What's the difference? The difference is that, you know, my, intellect, your curiosity takes a backseat to my faith.

And so, my faith keeps my curiosity in check. So those things for which the Lord has not explained yet. I'm patient enough to wait. Okay. For the day in this life or the next, in which, the answer will be provided. And so, so that's what I, that's what I, that's what, that's what I mean. So the book. No. God, it's there. But he doesn't bother me. And so because it doesn't bother me, I have no doubts. Yeah, but I still have the question.

But I trust in him as well because we have promises in the talking in the comment section 101, section 21. What promise that while we are, you know, the things that were never revealed before are going to be revealed now in the latter days. In the section one one the covers, the Lord promise that when the Lord returns, he will explain all things.

Okay, I can wait. So that's a good segue to me, I think 1972 1972. What is a what is that you mean that was a that was a good year for you. Tell me about that year. Well, yeah. You know, that's when in May beginning of May, the missionaries came to our home and started teaching my family of those, Thomas MacIntyre and Steven Richards. And I remember we started attending church. We went to a sacrament meeting, which in those days was in the afternoon on Sunday, Mother's Day, one Sunday of me.

And I just recently, I remember because it was Mother's Day and, we were at a family gathering there because we all lived in the same neighborhood, you know, with uncles and aunties and, cousins and, so we left early to go to, second meeting, which I think was 5 p.m. or something like that. And, it was the first time we went to a church meeting at the invitation of the missionaries. And, so a little less than two months later, we were baptized on July 2nd, 1972.

So we received the missionary lessons. Yeah. And, we in our case, everything worked. Everything worked. You know, it was textbook case. You know, we were very well fellowship. You know, our branch there in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, one of the branches in the city. And, even the youth, fellowship. Me. I remember they, invited me to a certain time we were in church and invited. Well, why don't you come Tuesday evening?

You know, we have a, I didn't understand what they said in the car, heading back home. I told my brother they invited me to something. I think they called musical association. I'm not a musician. You know, I you I know I'm a little bit of a piano, but I don't play the piano. And I remember my my, my, my mother in the car when I was in, but go anyway. So we went, and then I learned it was mutual. But it was, one of the youth who invited me to go, a young lady. No, Rosanna.

she's deceased now, and, we, And so she means something to you? Well, you know, her whole family. So you kept you kept you kept contact with her. Well, she had a younger sister who attended the same school I did. I didn't know she was a member of the church. So when we went to go to the, second meeting on Mother's Day. Oh, there she was, she was one year ahead of me. And I said look you, I know you're a member of this church.

And so years later my mother and her mother served together mistake in front of the presidency. So that was connections there then. But it was for me. Interesting. Was that they do not wait for us to become members of the church for all of us. I remember the, brother who taught family history, what we called genealogy classes. He invited us to attend the genealogy classes. We had not been baptized yet. And you had to leave. And so we started attending genealogy classes there.

They to us investigators, they also invited us to, this was a property the church had in my neighborhood was just an old house. You know, there was a vacant lot. Big lot. There was an old house, really old. And, and they needed to clear some, you know, weeds and whatnot from the Lord's to that. There was a beautiful stake center in that place. But, but back then, in 72. So one Saturday morning, there we went.

You know, my parents and I went there to help clear the lot, you know, with the other members. And we're doing investigating the church. I found a picture, a few years ago of, because we're in June now. So this was weeks before our baptism. And in Brazil, we have the junimos. You. Okay. And the hillbilly parties, you know, and, and we had one in the branch and they asked my father to help. To help. So my father was serving there, that water nice. And the soft drinks there.

And I found a picture of him with another brother who's also now deceased brother, Joseph Hauser. You know, the two of them there, you know, fake mustaches. Really? And, you know, Jews smiling there, you know, opening, you know, bottles of soft drinks and old who used to be and were investigated. Wow. They they involved us in everything. So, in the end, why am I telling all this? Because, look, you know, this is what's supposed to happen all the time.

You know, going to Wales, you people, all, you know, member of the church, you absolutely know, involved, involved and and, so when the, the, the, the issue and, I don't know if you want to go there like, oh, well, it's necessary anyway. Otherwise people are going to ask for the money back here.

So no no no no that's not what this is. When we finally received the last, about the priesthood, when we had been so involved with the members, we have been so, well, fellowship, myself included. But I had only one sister at the time. She was six years old, and so she wasn't primary already. Also, so that's, Okay. So okay, so we will not be able to hold the priesthood, but you know how many friends we're making here? Yeah. How many people are supporting us?

And, so we didn't see ourselves as second class because we had been cleaning the, the serving vacant lot with all the other members. And, my mother had been, repairing refreshments with the other sisters there while the men were, you know, you know, hauling trunks of the trees and so on. The we were preparing some sandwiches there. And so my mother was there with and, and I had been in the Mutual Improvement Association and we were attending the genealogy classes.

And so, yeah, you know, there so well integrated with everything that's unfolded. So what we would do all the places, but we're going to be, you know, still enjoying everything else. And so for us, it was not a, major hurdle. So, so, so we go to and two weeks after we were baptized in July of 72, my father was, top executive for the National in that subsidiary of the National Oil Company. And, he was a controller there.

And, but twice, twice a week in the evening, he would teach, Rio de Janeiro State University about accounting and finance. So two weeks after our baptism, the branch president comes into all of understand you are you your teacher teacher at the University of. So yeah I teach couple of nights a week and so okay we did a Sunday school teacher so Europe so started teaching. But but there was a thing.

The class you were supposed to teach was the gospel class, which in those days was for members was more than one year of membership. So here's my father, two weeks of membership, and he's teaching the members who have been there for years and there were no teachers manuals. That year, 72. They were study of Jamestown with his book articles of Faith. So I gave my father a copy, told him which chapter they were going to discuss the following Sunday, and he taught.

Well, and then, two months later, the, the first stake was organized in religion aid. I ever. Yeah. The first thing we had a distributor agree with the thing. We were really on board. So the first stake in real was in 72. Wow. We had a first stake in 66. I think the second was in wow, 9 or 74, not mistaken. And real then was in, 1972. And the Bishop McConkey was there to, organize the stake and, and my parents were called to stake positions like the two months or membership. Really, counselor?

And the stake, the school presidency. My mother was called as a counselor in the junior Sunday school. Interesting. Primary was during the week, the junior Sunday school mother was called as a counselor in the state junior Sunday school presidency. This is only two months. Two months in one in. Wow. I was called you to be, assistant secretary in the young men's organization in my ward. I said, this is the way supposed to happen. Don't wait.

People are older or these, you know, like, no, no, Boom-Boom, you know, you're going to see them thrive. You're going to see them learning. And, you know, it's, that's the way it's that's why I mentioned a few minutes ago, in our case, everything went right. Everything was done right. Textbook case with everything.

And so that all of this helped us, you know, and the consolidation and the strength in the Old Testament, because we have we've seen the testimony or the truthfulness of the messages that missionaries were sharing with us.

And, do you remember that first day that you realized that this is the gospel of Jesus Christ? Yeah. What was that? Well, I remember the first day I went to church, and I remember coming back home with this feeling, and I remember this distinctively to this day that I had been home. That old house. Okay, with floorboards that creaked when the the the the young men passed the sacrament, you know, uncomfortable. The pews were uncomfortable and everything.

But I remember feeling home that, that I had arrived at my home. And, and, and I remember mentioning that, so I had this feeling there was a home. And I was the first one in my family, my parents had already decided to be baptized, but they didn't tell me. And, they were kind of afraid of how we were going to break the news. That to you? Yeah, they were kind of. They weren't sure if you. But then one evening I told them you know, we were in the living room.

They're in our in our apartments a little. I don't know about you guys, but, I said I'm going to be baptized. Mr.. So, wait, you're a 13 year old kid. You don't even know of your parents. That's so interesting. We also thought the same way, but you were like, they're you both kind of thinking the same. Well, like, I don't you're like the same thing. We were in the same journey together, you know, I had been reading the pamphlets. I have been reading, first Nephi.

Well, first I read what the missionaries assigned, which was the ministry of the Savior among the Nephites. 11. Yeah, certainly for you, first of all, I read that and then I started with First new it. So I had been browsing through the book of Warming, and, I remember reading the testimony of Joseph Smith, the pamphlet with the, his testimony. And my first impression was so this guy was he was about my age, you know, 14, 15. I'm 13 years old. And my my feeling at the time the way I, I would.

Articulates today is that, you know, if this guy were lying he wouldn't lie this way. You know, if I had to make up a story I would say that I saw an angel or saw the Virgin Mary. Okay. And, and I would say that they told me to be good, okay. And have faith. I would not say that I saw God and Jesus and they told me not to join any churches.

So stream you saying, yeah, I thought, you know, that's very bold for someone who's about my age a little older was 14, 15, but, you know, and I was 13, so he must have been telling the truth. That was my first impression of Joseph Smith was my first impression was that, you know, it must be telling the truth. You know, at that age, if I had to lie, I wouldn't lie that way. So the Virgin Mary was saw an angel. And in such a, you know, such a bold message. Do not join in the churches.

Whoa. For a young kid to say that, that in some look I thought it has to be true. Yes to be true. And so that was my initially my my, my usual impression. So you know what I said in our case everything went really well. Really well. So that experience that you had, you go to church for the first time and it felt like home, you said felt like home. And you just. And then you started to serve. It was not the building.

We didn't have temples in Brazil, you know, I saw pictures of temples and missionaries. They used to have those binders and all the flip charts. Yeah. Picture of the temple and so on. But tell me about that. What do we mean for you? What is home mean for you that I belong with you belong there. I belong there. Even though I was active in our previous religion and I enjoyed it, but this was different. I felt that I belong, that that was my place, that church. Despite of that building.

Later we had a district conference. Conference of the district of Rio de Janeiro. But we didn't have a stake. You have a stake will come true months later. And, so we went to the only meeting house we had in the city. It was about 20 minutes from my home. And, so the district conference. And so it was an all god chapel. Really nice. But what? I'll be an actor. My father had seen a year or two and was very curious about what it was about the Muslim strain playing for a church.

And so, but, which one? The Church of Jesus Christ of these things are more, because you were used to the Catholic Church, and Methodist Church and then The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saint, that's a strange name for a church. And the architecture of the building, very modern, old brick, rectangular, you know. Linear. But he mentioned that work. That's how I saw this building of the church you know, was, was, you know my father had been searching for something you didn't know what.

And he believed that the religion where we were belong living we belong to was not, you know, God's way and but you but he didn't know what God's way would be. And so he mentioned there to someone who is advisory there, you know, you know, maybe I'll stop by that church on that. And one of his, advisors, I want to believe in a man named Solomon. I, I knew some of them. I used to go to work with my father sometimes, and, and, you know, knew his secretaries and all these.

His guys were his advisors. I knew all of them. And, so this man was named Solomon, but this time, he was not wise. So, Jebus, you know, that's the Mormon church. Oh, it's a church. And, you can only go there before invited by one of the members. And besides, you're American, you're black. I don't think you're going to be welcome there. So I said, I said you're right. So interesting. So he didn't go. Yeah. So that's the irony of Solomon giving really unwise counsel. Interesting.

And so finally we were at that, and that, that building for that district conference. The reason why I mentioned this was a conference because, a brother who was leaving, he and his wife were, Americans. I think he was a counselor in the mission presidency, for not mistaken, Hal Johnson, his name. He had been a young missionary in Brazil. Now he had been there or something. I don't remember what he was doing. And, and so, they were invited to bear the testimonies and so on. So far, so good.

I was sitting there. We're sitting in the congregation there in front of the chapels full of people chapel. Go to a hall full. And, this is Elder Johnson. So could you give me a gift? Parting gift? I would like this gift of a special gift for me to have all the men stand up and sing. I need the every hour. Which in Portuguese, this is what you need. Jesus. And so we all stood up and some singing. I, you know, Caruso. Jesus. And I remember them looking around.

My father and I were there, you know, singing because we already knew at that point who already knew. I mean, the every everyone. I remember looking around and seeing all those men in suits and ties. I looked around and I, I looked around and suddenly I had that feeling of, I'm part of this group. And so my my father, we are part of this group. We're with them and we're singing, look at this, men in suits singing Jesus together.

And that gave me that, suddenly no longer connection with the Savior, but a connection with all those men as fellow disciples. Now, that's how I'm articulating today. That's not exactly what I thought back then. What did you think? Would you? But the feeling that I had was that we're united, even though we looked different and none of them were black, by the way, only my father and I, there. But we're united in our faith in Christ Jesus because we're seeing. Through Jesus, we need to.

I need to every our most gracious Lord. And so I'm being Portuguese of course. And, so it wasn't very touchy. I never forgot that other countries like. Yeah, we're still investigating the church. This was still before we put that, but that really. But that meant something to you. I even the way you even the way you're saying it now. I mean, when you go back and it's it's almost like you're having this nostalgic moment, you know, it's not nostalgia, it's what, you see, people know this very well.

You know, you you guys know me. As you know, one of the most repeated verbs in the Book of Mormon is, remember. Remember? Remember. We've been we have to remember these things. It's moments. It's moments in which the Holy Ghost came to us and spoke to us in ways that we cannot even phrase with eloquence and completely words. Now, now, after a half a century, having thought about it for half a century, yeah, I can articulate more or less what what what, what what happened?

But, but we have to remember these moments and then come to the, the, the the follow up thought, which is, if it was true, then it is still true now, no matter what the circumstances are. I know I'm older, I know more things. And, the circumstances seem like problems. My challenges are different now. Physical, emotional, mental, financial, whatever. They're different now. But the testimonies do the same. The spirit that I felt. Okay. I can still feel it now.

As I remember, as I remember how I felt with them. It is as if the Holy Ghost kind of a replace, if you will, what we felt in. I can kind of feel like you. So yeah, it is still there because time, you know, alma, was the one who ruled among the younger was the ones that time is only mentioned to me. Yeah. Like a dream of God and some things that happened decades ago for the Lord was almost snap of fingers and soul as we remember, and we ponder about what it seems.

There was, some how we are connected to that experience. Again, you know, beyond the barrier of time. And we can almost feel it again, as if it were happening now and then three years ago. And, so this is, you know, you listen to what you were saying. It was almost feel like do you feel it now? So yeah. Yeah. Think about it. It's the those intimations, if you will, those, you know, leftovers of that, you know, those fragments of light, divine lights that comes of.

Yeah. That the moon then and I can still I can still taste it.

So what do you think. What do you think he wanted you to know then? And that he still wants you to remember now? If it's important to remember, what does he want you to remember? I mean, obviously the experience. But what about it? Well, know the the truth that we're going to God knew who it was, knew where it was, and was willing to give me that even though I wasn't even a member of the church yet. He gave it to you. Have you been baptized yet?

And so, and then, of course, you know, put it into that YouTube perspective with everything else that has happened over 53 years. So, yeah, you know, it only strengthens Mike, Josh, one of the other, the Lord has been has been very good, very gracious. And you know, for reasons that only he knows, but, you know, so and so and I believe this is an experience that any latter day Saint can have.

I don't I don't believe that my experience is, unique is just that as a social scientist, you know, I have given sufficient thought. To, to this. And I have been refining my understanding. And, of course, the the fact that I have been interviewed a number of times about this.

And I told you before the the look, you know, whenever somebody asked me a question that I, that I have been asked, that I've been asked before, always think, okay, what have I learned since the last time I answered this question? Yeah. And so the answer I'm giving to you now is, more detailed maps of more profound answer than the one that I gave in other podcasts, in other interviews, some of which are recorded in the church archives and or even a lot of interviews.

But as you know, the age comes, you know, it's it's seasonal. Okay. It's it's like parmesan cheese, you know. Yeah, yeah. It tastes better the longer. Yeah. Giving forms. Remembering these things over years, over decades, we will derive more and more lessons. It and that's when we're going to see them. You know the Lord was there. So that's why I think you're looking on.

People are not going to have the exact same excuse I had, but they're going to have experience in which they're going to see it. So yeah, I can understand what the Lord was doing to me and what he was doing through me. When they start, you remember the experience you had in the past. Even the, your youth was in your youth. They're relevant. Remember, we lived with our father in heaven, you know, I'm not going to use the expression for eons before we were born here.

Yeah, we may have lived with him for the equivalent of millions or billions of Earth or two before we came here. And so when we think, oh, yeah, we were children, we're youth. Our spirits were much older than our physical bodies. Our spirits may be millions or billions of Earth years old. So being a child, being unlearned, being being a baby, a toddler, youth, an adult, an elderly person, those are mortal considerations, you know, and they are meaningless.

And the way we know they're meaningless is because in the Book of Mormon, when the Savior ministers to the Nephites, I believe it was in the third day of his visit. He opened the mouths of the children. This is third for chapter 26. And, remember, on the second day these children have been meals? Did you buy angels? That's 3017 of them. On the following day, the Savior open the mouths and even babes more will tell us. Even babes opened their mouths and they spoke marvelous words.

And they more than those even greater than the words the Savior had spoken. And they spoke to their parents, and they were not allowed to record what the children said. Wow, I remember even babies. Because why? Because only the body is a baby. That's true. The spirit is not. The spirit is matured. And so it's the same as if you allow the Lord spirit to speak regardless of the age of your mortal body. Speak out in I'll let you speak out in the Holy Spirit. Marvelous words. And so, so yeah.

You know, that should be an interesting insight also for those serving in nurseries or especially primary, do not think that just because they're children. Yeah. Okay. The souls are there some spirits there. But if the spirit could fully express himself or herself. Yeah. The walls would fill with light and the fire and it would be phenomenal. Absolutely astounding. And so to not just teach them the gospel and so on.

But no that there was a whole lot more going on and that you're just feeding something that, they're mortal side needs not mean. But when the spiritual the spirit is in there, it almost feels like we're living in reverse. We're coming to know, you know, because the invitation is to become like a child, right? Yeah. But I feel like that innocence is what helps reveal the reality of who we really are in our spirit. Right? It's almost like the like.

It's almost like the body's trying to catch up with the spirit. That's what the life is, is given a chance to do. No, no. But you. But what you said made me think of that. But what you say. But what you're saying. I'm learning, I just. No, no, no, what you're saying is that it's helping me see that even more clearly. What do you wish that people asked you? You've had all these you've you've been interviewed about different topics all over the place.

I mean, and mostly it's been your experience joining the church, going on a mission. What do you wish people actually asked you? Did they never have asked you? Now that's an interesting well, let me put it this way. Number one, I never thought of myself as, special or anything. You know, I, I was, I was, I thought of myself as one, just as a member of the church and fellow disciple of Jesus Christ. In fact, that's what I tell my students. Welcome. Yes. I have a role here as your teacher.

But bottom line, fundamentally, we're all fellow disciples of Jesus Christ in this great journey in the in the plan of salvation. So no, I never thought of myself as, special or being a trauma. Even when I received callings like bishop or mission president, I, I never thought that. Well, it's because of my skills or my talents or, you know, skills. Talents. I knew I had them, but no, that was not the reason why it was called was it was called was for reasons that only the Lord knows.

And I never bothered to ask. Okay. I remember one time you had a one of our young missionaries, on a day over the over transfer, he came to me and, very, very, you know, sad and, he said, oh, you know, because, you know, I had an expectation that you were going to invite me to be one of your assistants. So you might rather my older brother, and he's me. Sure. You. Know, I strive to do everything right and so on. And be a good missionary will be obedient and productive and so on.

And I told you, look at me. Let me tell you something. Here. See this name tags. Your name tags. So this is not a promotion. I personally know a dozen friends of mine, personal friends of mine who could very well be called to be mission presidents and were not called. So I'm not here. It's a promotion. What is their reward? Was I as well? Sure. Yeah. It's a blast. It's an honor. But it's not. It's some of the point. I'm here for reasons that only the Lord moves.

And so as long as you are faithful, it doesn't matter if you are a leader or I cease to be the distribute either. Doesn't matter what matters that your faithful that you are. Ambassador of Jesus Christ. That was something along those lines, they said. And so no, that never, never. I never allowed that thought that, oh, you know, I am a person that I have to have a message to know I don't. And, as far as you know, the other, question you asked me if I had a question. Are you sure? People ask.

You know, I'm always wishing that people asked me about what's bothering them. And I'm always hoping that I'm able to use the scriptures and the words of the prophets to, if not. And sure, the the issue that is bothering them, but at least you leave them with the hope in Christ that there will be a solution, whatever it is that's bothering them. This is how my classes have been for decades now.

This is how my firesides and devotionals are usually, you know, when I speak, you know, you have a massive, you know, about 20 minutes. And then I open for questions in state presidencies. They usually give me an hour, an hour and a half extra to answer questions. And when I tell them, look at them. What's bothering you? What's taking your sleep at night? Let's talk about that. If it is not something going to please you, let's see what the scriptures say.

What the what the Lord has said, what these prophets have said. And so no, I don't have any expectation. I wish somebody would have asked me this or that. You know, you want to help that, they asked me what's in their heart and what's bothering them. And I hope that I'm able to at least leave them, if not the answer or a solution, which sometimes I can't, but at least leave them with that. Hope that be Jesus Christ.

Someday I'm going to have a solution to this. The dilemma that I face a lot oftentimes is, you know, I grew up as a member of the church. I was born in 1983, and my dad was a tough year for me. That was a tough year for you. Well, go on, go on. Well that's interesting. And maybe there's something that'll come from this because, because when it comes to any topic of race, if I bring it up, it seems like people assume that I have a bone to pick, right? But I don't.

And if I don't bring it up, it's almost like I can never win, no matter which direction that I go. Right? If I bring up, if I bring up anything that has to do with an Indian, a genuine way to help people or, you know, it almost seems as if they just turn off their brain. Oh, that thing again. Oh, here we go again. Where the intention that I have is to actually, legitimately try to help people when it comes to this topic.

But my perspective is interesting, because I do come from a multicultural background. Right? But it's almost as if I don't talk about it enough. Then people feel like I'm not representing them well. But if I talk about it at all, people shut off their brain. Do you know what I mean? I'm just curious what you think about that. And in your experience, how that how would you approach something like that? Multiculturalism. Yeah. The church.

You know, I've, I've been known to say this, this is a time for activity, not for activism. Yeah. It's just serve. Let's just serve. Let's just fulfill our responsibilities. Let's just receive the, you know, the callings we receive. Fulfill them diligently and magnify them. Which, by the way, in Portuguese, we have a better understanding of magnification. English. In English, people think of magnify your callings. They think of a magnifying lens. Right?

Yeah. In Portuguese, you know, because it's a laughing language there. Oh, no. We think in terms of being magnificent. Yeah. Magnificent job. An excellent job. So magnify our colleagues and, and then just let people look at us and say Yeah. That she's Asian or he's Hispanic, she's black or she is Mongolian or whatever. It becomes secondary matter. Yeah. They're look at us. Oh no. This is my ministering sister. It's my ministering brother. This is my, Sunday school teacher. This is my.

What are you see, mom becomes the primary, you know, identifier of the person. Not the color of the person scheme. Not the person in the city, not the person's accent. And so that's what we're we're. It's a time for activity, not for activism. I don't I don't usually, as far as I can remember, I don't, Openly teach people, talk to people about multicultural or race relations, even though it is my field of expertise, my soul, my my beauty is in sociology of religion, race and ethnic relations.

But I don't overdo. We talk about that, you know, just let's just live, work together, serve together, council together, fuel the manifestation of the power of the Holy Ghost in our conversation together. And then come to the, right. So happens that, and so naturally, it's something that it's there for. I love that it's, the primary identifier. That's right. We were identified with one another because of our discipleship. Christ. Because of our service in the kingdom of God in the church.

That's what becomes our identification, primary identification, primary identity. And so that's the way I like what it is. I no, I don't in fact, the when when I'm invited to speak I often I've seen this happen actually. And you talk about the starting assemblies for sure. I can really what you want because, you know, I'm there to talk about my research and being more interesting.

And, you know, the interplay of, technology, which is what I've been talking more about now, you know, last five years, religion and science and so on, or religion in social issues and whatever, we and so on. I haven't done a whole lot on religious freedom. Well, this is something that for some of the corners as well, we're very much interested in.

I'm not quite there because I think we have very, you know, expert, people with expertise on that and you know, and, but with law degrees and so on and or political science degrees and I haven't good. But I, I, I, I, I look at this as, them. Something that, sort of primarily me is the gospel of Jesus Christ discipleship. That's what's primary, for, for me. Everything else. Everything else for me, it's for you're my host. You're the like presence. And you're asking me to speak about this.

Okay, I'll speak about these. But if you were to give me the option to not talk about this because we have bigger fish to fry. Yeah, not on the bigger fish, but more delicious fish to fry. Tell me about it. So so this is interesting to me. This is very, very interesting to me because to me. I feel the same way I, I really do, I really do. I mean, I feel like, It's what you mentioned at the beginning, a lot of that, of what you had mentioned before, of just the idea of having questions.

And it's okay to have questions, but let's look at the ones that matter the very, very most. And you said my connection with God and Jesus Christ is above all the others. Now, these can still be there. And they're not they're not going to go away. Some of them can be answered, some of them not. But this one matters the most. Right. And and not that these don't matter, but I feel like I feel like a lot of it is.

I just keep on thinking about first Nephi chapter eight, in the great spacious building, the midst of darkness. But the tree, the tree is the focal point of the whole dream. And Lehigh standing at the tree and he's begging people to take it. And he says it is desirable of all ever fruit than I'd ever before tasted. It was pure. Right? And, why do you think that it is that some of these. How do you, I guess maybe what I'm going for, too, is Elder Holland has this quote that I love.

He says the past is to be learned from, not to be lived in. And you're even saying, I would rather talk about something else than even the experience that people look at you and they're thinking, wow, Marcus Martinez, he was the first missionary

people want to dwell on that, right? And you're saying I would rather talk about this other stuff? Yeah, because this other stuff is the stuff that really matters for me. Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. So yeah, I like the way you Provo Elder Holland's book, but it's a little especially the ordinance of the House of the Lord, the gateway to Eternity. You see, I remember once, my wife and I had been serving as hard news workers in the Seattle Washington Temple.

And I remember once, telling two young men who are ordinance workers there, you know, preparing for their missions. And, I remember telling them, you know. Participating in temple ordinances, the closest we can get to the veil without dying. I tell you so, look, you know, the closest we can get to the veil without dying. And what's behind the veil is perfect. It's glorious. And none of these earthly being perfect. You know, barbed or some things are going to exist there.

So why should I keep, you know, spending my brainpower on things? There are not going to last forever when I can spend, you know, focus on things that will prepare me for what's behind the veil and the things that are behind the veil last forever. And so it's a matter of like, we make the best use of money. You know, my neurons here in my heart.

And, so, you know, we have to talk about the principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ, you know, for example, the you leaving, how can I and can we better, you know, refine our discipleship and acquire the discipline of discipleship? That's something I used to talk a lot to my missionaries there, the discipline of discipleship. And, I would rather talk about that to them. Oh, blacks in the priesthood and so on. And or or other, you know, church history, you know,

controversial matters and so on. But but we but still understanding that as human beings, we have that intellectual curiosity now that I don't have, I have. But as I said before, probably about an hour ago I said that, my faith keeps my intellectual curiosity in check. My faith, my testimony keep my curiosity in check. It's my relationship with God and Jesus Christ. I want to be one with them. I want to be one with Christ as Christ is one with the father.

I just gave me, later, you know, you get, I mean, the April. I'm sorry of this year, 20, 25, gave a lecture at, BYU at their Easter conference. Precisely. On this topic and, you know, so moving on, using writing this to be one with him as he's one with the father. And it's just mathematics to, you know, the associative property in mathematics, if A equals b and b equals c, then you will see, in Christ. In Christ is one with God, then yeah. Would we be one with the father?

And, and once we reach that unity through faith, repentance through the ordinances, particularly the ordinance of the house of the Lord, and then living up to the covenants we've made, the honoring those covenants, you know, especially in our homes, because it's easier to one of the covenants in church. But only those garbage in our homes, them, you know, you know, these are the things that we ought to be focused, far more focused, focusing far more then all of these.

These are the things are we going to have an impact for eternity? And, so that'll that'll be my, my preference always to speak about these matters rather than, I love that. But, you know, we live in this world. Yep. We live in this world. You mentioned, Leroy's dream and Nephi's vision. Yes. There was a tree, but the tree was in that world. And that vast expanse, their field spans that that, these, like, walk, etc. felt like our in this field, that it was dark until we came to that point.

They're still there and they're still, you know, cloud of darkness around and, and yeah, there is the great, great and spacious building. There is the river of filthy waters. So reaching the tree does not take us out of density. We're still. That location. But if we continue to eat the food and state, most of the tree will be safe. But the interesting thing is that the training just shows that it doesn't show what happens after people digest the food. Remember, they are eating the food.

And the only thing that Lehigh never tells us that they tasted the food and was sweet the most is was death was beautiful, sweet. But they don't tell us, okay, what is the effect once they have eaten? What is the effect of that fruit once it is digested? We're not told in that. What do you think it is? Transformation. Change the power of the Savior's Atonement and resurrection. Which then will take people out of that setting. But until then they are in that setting.

So the secret is equal to the tree until the Lord says, okay, you have eaten enough of the fruit. You already know for me to date you some someplace else. What you eat affects a lot of what do you who you are. I mean, you know it. It transforms who you are, what you eat, and that food, you know, it is interesting how, you know, we in that, lecture I gave in 2020, I talk a lot about this. And so why did the Lord chose digestion? Oh, yeah.

We didn't make, this covenant through the sacrament by eating a piece of bread, like drinking a bit of water. You know, all the dispensations. Wine. Why eat, why drink. Why not just the professor. I believe I know that. Why do you have to actually ingest. And if you ingest there's like just too. No. Sure the sacrament, the symbolic.

But our, our spirits receiving something that they digest I know I'm going to ultimately it's okay I'm going I'm going to leave here as they say in Brazil, I'm sliding on the mayonnaise. Have this expression in Brazil. Well, I'm a you're sliding on the mayonnaise, and then past it and. Oh, am I going to mayonnaise? But, but I think it is very interesting. So why digestion.

You know, looking old, the Lord told Moses brings, you know, Adam and Joshua and 70 elders up to the mountain and, I'm going to show myself to you. So nobody goes off to that party and they see the Lord, and it says that they eat before the Lord and he eats him. Why eating? So so yeah there's this concept of will you have to incorporate. Internally incorporate.

And so we have so many things to explore, so many very interesting things that are going to directly impact our discipleship and fill us with a greater view of what's to come, what the Lord has, what blessings and powers and privileges he has for us. Powerful. I don't feel desire to talk about all the fasting in the 19th century. I don't want to. I'm the 21st century. What's ahead of me? And thou? That's what it. And then what do I need to do.

What are the things that the Lord has made available to me. And now symbolically that I need to understand what these symbols stand for in preparation for the great things. So we are getting the Nelson dispensation was like all of them. Look, you know, if you made that prophetic promise in the days in old which we now in the time of the Savior's return, he's going to, we're see the greater manifest greatest manifestation in the world our world has ever seen.

And it will bestow leaders privileges and blessings. Okay, great. How do I prepare for that? And the and I already have already have the tools here. But the tools for me to prepare are not in the 19th century. They're here now. And there. Ooh. In ways that are understandable, intelligible for me now.

Which is, for example, other people because, you know, the changes they've been making, in the temple local, they're making changes to make it more efficient for you to focus on what's really essential for these things that are coming. It's not that the other things are not important. It's just a they are not essential. They're reducing it down to the key to the bones. This is what's this? The the the bones.

This is what's most, you know, putting almost and, in essential changeable and fundamentals and so. Okay. All right. So let the genes come. So, you know, the darker coat, you do the same. The coffins are the same, the blessings are the same. But you have the sense that, oh, we're not getting to the essentials. What do we need to understand here? And that's where I tell my students. Look, whenever you go to the temple, you get their change.

And while as you were waiting, do want to, Eli, the priest told you, young Samuel. Yeah. Speak, Lord, for the seventh heareth. Hear him for the servant heareth. And, What, president Nelson? But President Nelson said the same thing here. Him like the. Yeah, but I say every time you go to the temple, speak, Lord, for there's someone for you. And, And then what does that mean, though? What does it mean? Like that's then free and you pay up the issue.

Go with the magnitude of somebody who was going for the first time all over again. Pay attention to everything. Observe everything about everything, and don't just go for just this one audience. Go to some other audience. Every time you go, go to the some other audience. Pay attention to the words. Go to the dictionary. What do these words mean? What is the definition of these words? What is the etymology? The origin of these words?

You see, a lot of what we do in the exercise of the priest is mediated by language. It's mediated by language, the sacred language. Oh, we're going to confirm somebody's a member of the church language. But a bless a baby language is mediated by language. You know, all Satya, you know, you know, God fought to save the world by the foolishness of preaching. And that's more than that. That's what it is. You know, the Prophet Joseph is called the, the, the prism of pen and paper.

Yeah. He's on building paper. But that's what we have. So what do these words mean if the, the words are the tools that the Lord is using to educate us, you know, more going in perfect minds. What do the words mean? And so we have to pay attention to them. Let's go to the dictionary and and finding their meaning. And eventually things are going to come through for the Holy Ghost, the Holy Ghost. And so, yeah, you're on the right track. You're on the right track. Yeah, you're getting it.

You got it getting warm. You're getting warmer getting warmer. Until we get to the point that hopefully you know we'll get all of us, we'll get the point of the veil, we can move around. You know. We can't, you won't I love this I, I, I, I, I, I love it as well. And I hope that I live long enough here to see this because, you know, once I'm on the other side of the veil, that's, that's a given. We will have that. The righteous will have that. But here.

So time will tell, time will tell. But, but it all starts with our attention to these things, you know, what do these words mean? Even though the the words of the sacrament and all the taking, it being intentional about it? Hum. To bless and sanctify, I mean, to bless. We should, we know what it means. You see all the definitions for bless, for the verbiage. Bless what? The virtue sanctify. See all the definition of the word to witness unto thee. Oh, yeah.

I mean, to me, to me it makes me think of revelation 12. It says how the overcame was through the blood of the lamb and their testimony, their witness of him. You know, it wouldn't in that every seven days we partake of the sacrament, and I feel like we can't be asleep on it. You know, it's like we have to really take it seriously, right? It makes me even think, I mean, to what you're even saying to to just. I hear you saying, going back to alma again, right? Can you feel it?

Can you feel so now, right now, you had an experience and it was powerful. But what about today? What are we doing today? That's going to help us prepare for the day? That. Because when he says in Moroni seven, when he shall appear, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is right. And he's taught. But that takes us doing something now, today, now. But that's the thing, right? Doing things now. One other thing to do that we what we do now may matters in the scheme of things.

So with that said, though, I was curious when you were talking, what are the implications of yeah, there are questions. Yeah. There are things that people have that there are concerns. But what are the implications when we don't focus on the essentials, the bare the, the, the things that do matter forever from your perspective? Well, we got into this, you know, into this, endless, you know, discussions that don't take us anywhere.

You just keep circling because we don't have verb sufficiently information about it. And, we don't have revelations about. And the Lord has not chosen to explain certain things. And you also be running circles, whereas we should be on the. You see, we are on a straight and narrow path. Okay. If it is straight, it means we have to be moving forward. And if I use this term, press forward with steadfastness in Christ press for which did not keep circling around moving in circles.

Okay. God moves in circles. Yeah. His course is one eternal round. Ours is not. Wow. Tell me what you mean by that because that is deep. But I'm saying the difference between the difference. Right. What is the significance of what. What's the significance of saying that already. God. God. Yeah, man. We have a journey here and we have to press forward. We have a direction to go.

And so we need to understand that, you know, that everything we do here matters even in our daily affairs, you know, taking care of our homes and so on. Everything is part of the plan of salvation. Everything is part of salvation. Doing the dishes, you know, doing our laundry, paying our bills, you know, because we need to maintain this bodies here, these bodies are tools for us to obtain all the blessings that the Heavenly Father has for exaltation, eternal life.

And so all the things that are necessary to maintain these bodies are integral parts of the plan of salvation. So between the education, so I can have a job that through which I will have the, the, the, the income to pay for my clothing, you pay for my food, for health care and so on. All these are part of the plan. So in the end, we come to a point where, you know the line between what's secular, what's deemed pro mature, and what's spiritual is very simple. You know, it's very simple.

Everything pretty much is part of the plan of salvation. My entertainment is part of the plan of salvation. Yeah. I need to have, you know, mental health and I need to be, you know, to have moments of because, you know, an hour ago, they might have joy. Well, that includes also having some fun. So on. And especially, you know, with the family, you know, in the realm of having one's family with friends and so on, it's all part of the plan of salvation.

What I love about you lot is when you do talk about the future, you seem to. There's this like this excitement that's in you. There's like this, it just feels very hopeful. It feels very, I want to say I don't want to sound like a cliche word illuminating. What do you what do you hope for in the future if it is to focus on that path straight? What is that? What are you looking at? What do you see whenever you are imagining this? The same thing you and everybody else sees.

They. In fact, that's what alma, you are going back to. What would be on your own. Chapter five. And you see this body raised in immortality. That that's, I want to see this body raised in immortality. With my wife at my side. I'm hoping that she wants me at her side. You, that's where, you know. And so, yeah, in the family realm, we have to be very, very attentive to live the gospel and make very good, you know, relationships with our spouses, because that's critical.

If she doesn't want to come with me, then I'm not getting there. Yeah. You're saying that it's not over until she decides later on that you. You know, just yesterday I mentioned that you, my, my students at BYU here. But isn't that true? That's true though. So, you know, you, if you think of final judgments looking up the key witness, the so-called final judgment, because I don't think it's going to be a courtroom, you know, celestial courtrooms.

And, the key witness will be for the man will be, their wives. Their wives going to be the key witness. And so my wife will be the one who's going to tell the Lord, your Lord, you know, you can keep it. You, him. He is worth it. He's worth it, you know, want to be the man. I want to be there and I'll be there with him.

If we have this, you know, I often tell this book if we if we have the correct conception of the role, we have and the status that they have since the days of our mother Eve in the priesthood. And I'm seeing, this day and age, slow, but sure, restoration of that status that our mother Eve had in the priesthood. We would worship the ground on which our wives walk. We roll the red carpet in front of them. We will never, you know, disrespect or abuse them ever.

There's so much about what's ahead in terms of eternal blessings. Depends on her. Wow. Yeah, we can say that again. Wow. I yeah, I just I mean, it just makes me it's just makes me think of the temple, man. My marriage be something that my wife would say. Lord, please. I want to be forever with you. Please. Instead of, You know, it's been tough. You know, we really have to spend eternity with this, That's all. It's all of you don't get to that ceiling by the Holy Spirit.

The promise that it's in the code section 132, verse nine. People think that that be sure to be, that the married by and by my Lord, which is my law and the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit from they think that that you received by the Holy Spirit promised is the one who sealing the temple. It's not it's not final stamp of approval that the Holy Ghost will give.

And they'll say, yes, you guys have a marriage that both of you desire this relationship to remain forever. So here it is. Stamp approved by choice two. Yeah. Which, brings us to a realization that, you know, we, we use this term even in the handbooks. And so, yeah, when couples are sealed, when couples are sealed and couples are sealed, actually, technically speaking, if you think about it, couples are not sealed. We are pronounced husbands and wives. But y'all thought of the threesome.

We're not sealed. Children are sealed. Your father and mother. But men and women are not sealed to each other until now. Husbands and wives. And then they have blessings. Blessings sealed upon them. And the, the implication of that is very simple. The duration of their relationship of that marriage will be determined by their exercise of agency as individuals and as a couple. Wow. I never considered that. Yeah. The duration.

Now, if they have a relationship that it is mutually desirable joyful for them comb for gene. Over the years of their lives, you know, into their old age and so on. Then them you will see that, you know, they will get to that point where they will have that seal, but the Holy Spirit of promise and the relationship then will indeed last for as long as the priesthood lasts. And the priesthood is eternal, so the relationship will be eternal. But for now, we're still in that testing ground there.

And we have to prove to our spouses every day that are looking to marry me was the best thing you could have done. And staying with me is the best thing you can do in this life and the next.

And you have to prove that every single day. And I think also you're, you're you're learning and growing together in the process. Right? Oh yeah. You know, you know, as we're, we're we're not static. We're always changing. When I thought, marriage, BYU, Hawaii or the years I was there, I, I told them, well, you may think about, teaching these things because you're young and so to know, marriage requires continuous adaptation. And we have temptation as we age, we change.

Yeah. My wife married 45 years ago. Different if I'm still alive and she's still alive 20 years from now, we're not going to be the same people we are today. Our mindset will change. Not only our bodies, our appearance, but our mindsets, our emotions, our responses to more change. And so we will have to continually we're continual,

continually newlyweds. So, because we look at, when we're in our 30s, you have married with something, you know, in our 60s with, with six different areas now and then we're, we're septuagenarians and octogenarians. Yeah. We're always relearning how, okay, how do we handle this now? You know, we're different now. And, and we have all these quirks of old age. You know, we don't hear very well, you know, things. And, become, you know, cranky.

And I think that's the same thing you were saying before. I feel like it just keeps coming back. It keeps coming back. As we get older, we look back differently to the past, and we're constantly aging. Right. I'm looking up there, okay? My relationship with my Heavenly Father continues saying, you know, my body is decaying, but my spirit does not decay. So the body eventually is going to fail me completely and I'm going to that mission, but there's not going to be two years with my spirit.

And so everything that I do here matters. And that's the beauty of the darkness of the plan of salvation. Because everything that I develop, all these relationships with spouse and children and grandchildren, we're going to carry all this with us. You know the old adage, oh, you know, you, you you cannot take anything from this world with you. That's what that means. Yeah. Yeah. Our love for others, we think all relationships.

It's just that the relationships have to be confirmed and established firm by your father to be established by the authority of the priest. Interesting. But that's but that's what links all the other relationships to children. Right. Yeah. We don't we don't this life with us. And these are things I can know, right. That's right.

So it pays to then pay attention to looking at what am I doing now to convince this person to be that staying with me is the best thing, that she would not be better off with some other man. It's not over till it's over, right? And we can choose. So. So you mentioned the essentials if you were to just give it to me. Just these are the essentials that I want to focus on. What would those be? Well, Christ. Let's look at them. How am I incorporating any the virtues that Jesus Christ exemplified.

That's what I all that for a missionary of mine to simplify, don't philosophize and to find some mathematical equation, and statistical, you know, analysis of, no probabilities. No, no, no, no, no, just come to Christ or come to a state of Christ like ness. Be like Christ, which means that you have to continually be studying his life, his ministry, particularly his ministry among the Nephites and the Lamanites, which is where we get far more of his character. Character.

Because you see in the, in the old world. Yeah. You know, we had to have a lot from Christ character. But there he was, dealing with some people who believe with him. Others? Would you not believe in him? Others who badmouthed him called him, you know, son of Delio and, partner of the devil. And so sometimes you have to be a little, you know, intense. You but I'm I'm going to be fighting the Lamanites. He was among people who were righteous enough to receive his presence. That's what we read.

Third Nephi, mind you, we were spared of all the destruction because you were more righteous than the others. So he was among the righteous. And so he did things there that he he told them, look, you know, I could not perform some of these miracles because of the government unbelief over there back in Jerusalem. And so looking at this mortal ministry in the New Testament and looking at his post mortal ministry in the Book of Mormon, we learn more about these character and then it's okay.

What about you. How he by incorporating some of those virtues. How is my character aligning with the character of Jesus Christ. So instead of looking only a few boils down to these, that's closely. And what's his character like? How would you just how would you say it? Well, there's many aspects of Jew Jewish character, but that's what you have to see. You have to see how did he deal with people? How do you interact with them?

Yeah. To me, I'm asking because I think that that's a good perspective for all of us, right? If that is what we're looking toward, right. If that is what we're looking to become, how do you see how do you see that? It's right there. And you spoke with them. You allow them to come toward him. He allowed them to, listen to his voice. He blessed them. He prayed with and for them and, healer. They're sick and, you know, gave instructions and, bless their little children and brought angels down.

We have to do the same thing. In fact, he told the 12, you know, that in my church,

the things that you have seen me do don't do. So this is the last question I have. I just want I'm just curious. You just go back at full circle. You talked about this is an intellectual, religion. This is an intellectual gospel. And intelligent. Intelligent is a where you. And if you were to be able to, you had students that have multiple questions of all various kinds.

If you were to be able to sit down with one of them right now, and you just explained to them what you would hope for them to truly know and understand what you've come to know and understand that could help them with whatever struggle or whatever challenge they face. What would you say to them? Well, I'm assuming that I would have only one chance to talk to that student, and after that, that we don't have any other chance to speak.

I'll just say we read the Book of Mormon in the spirit of prayer, pondering and praying. The Book of Mormon was the key to conversion, but it was also the key to conversion, and it is the key to maintaining our state of conversion. I'm thankful that you came. I'm thankful that we had this conversation. And, for those of you who are watching this or listening, I believe I know that what we've talked about is true. It's up to you to go to God and find out for yourself.

This is Stephen Jones. This is let's get real. Until next time. And then, not long after that, I was also called, which would be because, you know, I had been learning to be an on and off, you know? And how old are you? How old are you? I was 13, 13. So when I was 15 years old. Yeah, 14, 15 years old. I was going to be the, because I have been studying music a little bit, and, so I was called to be the Sunday school music director for the lead, the music chorus. But the corner story.

So the school Sunday school was in the morning sacrament meeting the afternoon. So I'm just going and opening the chapter opening exercises. Part of the opening exercise were ten minutes of hymn practice and I was responsible for the in practice you led me to him. So we had a piano at home, so I didn't play, but I knew how to read notes, and so I would learn the hymns, at home and then on Sunday. Oh, and so that's when I started speaking in church every Sunday.

Every Sunday I would have to go and practice the hymns with, with, the congregation, teach them how to sing with hymn 13 year old, 14, 14 I was 15. Wow. Yeah.