Featuring Wayne Brady

on my podcast. And I also just want to take a quick moment before we get into the episode to thank all of you for listening, for subscribing to d m NG, me for just supporting this podcast, because I honestly never thought we'd be here. I came up with this podcast when I was going through a really rough time and it was to help myself and to help others if I could. And I'm so glad that you guys have responded to this podcast in this way. I hope you guys love this episode. It's the start of

so many great episodes in the third season. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the Let's Be Real podcast and leave a comment and I will see you guys very soon. Enjoy it. Wayne Brady, I am so happy you're here. Thank you so much for coming on my podcast. Thanks for having me let alone the first episode of season three, which is so crazy to say. Congratulations. That's awesome, especially since we did the entire second season during the

global pandemic. Um, which I want to talk to you about because we're finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, but we've been stuck inside for so long. I'm gonna talk about how it affected your mental health in a little bit, But first, how did you deal with it professionally? Well, my thing is a little different, I think because I was working straight through the pandemic. I was on the sitcom The Neighborhood. When when everything stopped,

then we had to pivot. We started working from my my home, myself and my my production team, who was my ex wife Mandy, who was my partner, and her boyfriend Jason. We have a production company, so we started shooting things here. We shot the A Tribute to Little Richard for the b ET Awards. UM. We've done four national commercials here countless corporate shows. So we were back at work almost immediately making the hustle happen here. We resumed production on some things I think early fall of

last year. That was a culture shock because now we were back around people and everyone's getting tested. It's weird, but it was really cool, and we managed to do a whole season Let's Make a Deal um in a COVID space and it ended up being amazing. So I've had a great time working during pandemic. Wow. So was the audience virtual? The audience for Let's to Make a Deal? We have sixteen people that are part of a virtual audience for then we had a small group of six

people that that were there with us live. So it was a small audience, but it was It's so intimate and still fun and and a great party Vigon. It's like having a game night with your friends. See. I feel like we could all use that now, especially I don't know about Shoo, but I've been when I watched TVs and movies now and I see people in a crowded space, I'm like, why aren't they wearing a mask or why aren't they social distancing? And the fact that

that's my instinct now is crazy. Well, it's not crazy, because it's actually a part of of life. It's like any any event that affects us as a culture, and it affects us globally. So I think that the good shows are the ones that have been able to reflect real life, to show, hey, this has happened, or this is happening. Certain shows tend to go, well, we don't want to bring it up, and we're just gonna pretend

it doesn't exist. And for me, those are the ones that I get taken out of because I go, wait a minute, if you're saying that that happened last week, no way, because people are still walking around in masks. It's still an issue. That's it's super interesting. Have there been any good TV show binges that you've been enjoying over the past year. Oh man, I don't even just off the top of my head, I don't. I think the Marvel stuff absolutely. Uh. One Division was a great binge.

Um uh, definitely, The Falcon and The Winter Soldier great binge. I took this opportunity. I'm an avid reader anyway, but there were lots of books that I wanted to take advantage of it, and things I wanted to write and and and I tried to use this whole period at the time to get ready. So so I tried to binge on, binge on the things that I hadn't been been doing in terms of being a creator. When I was a senior in high school, I knew that if I was going to watch show, I would binge the

entire thing. So I made a deal with myself that under no circumstances during the fall semester, I would start a new show because I knew I wouldn't focus on a out. Yes, but I'm now happy to report that as a freshman in college, I am ready to start binging many shows. Congratulations, that's what I was telling my daughter. You know, she she's a senior as well, and she

she got all of her her stuff done. And it's amazing to see see seniors with with willpower, because I don't know if I would have been able to handle it being being a senior, being being stuck at home, being responsible for for doing home, the homeschooling, and you've got to get get your college stuff together while there's such a big world of entertainment. Come on, that's hard.

So good job, Thank you. But the one good thing I will say that out of the pandemic for me is that the s E T a CT were canceled. And I'm a terrible test taker, So that was the one way I was like, thank goodness, because I just can't. I'm not a test taker. My brain doesn't work that way, and not everyone brains does. I mean, that's a whole different conversation in terms of of the standardized testing. You know what what is standard? That's that's what I love

about being a creatively. What is standard? Your standard is different than mine. I think a different way than you do, So you cannot be expected to be judged on my level, nor nor me on you. So judge each person as as their individual merits come up, especially when when it comes to matters of an intellectual nature. If you think about it, everybody's brain is wired differently, So why are we introducing things taking tests a certain way for every person?

It just doesn't make sense because some some sometimes people like a cookie cutter. That's why the you know, the cookie that shaped differently sticks out. Um. But I find that that that, especially in what what we do, it's better to have your own point of view. It's better to learn the things that you want to learn. And that's the only piece of advice that I gave my daughter. Or she just committed to to a Loyola Marymount and

I said, look, do whatever you want to do. She wants to study theater, and she got accepted in the program. It's great to do whatever you want to do, but just make sure that you are approaching it in a way that you want because ultimately, at the end of the day, you know it's your your journey, and be as different as you can. Don't don't try to walk some someone else's path and and stay in the lines.

And that's something I really struggled with. High school is not my biggest fan ever, um and it was you know, when I live in New York City, when you go to schools, it's what's popular, it's the way things are done. People were the same things. And I always struggled with that. And I feel like I'm at a point where I'm finally starting to embrace and realize that being different and

being myself is actually a good thing instead of a negative. Yes, yes, being yourself is not just a good thing, it's a great thing, and I think it's necessary but you know, this story never changes. I've been out of high school a long time and it's the same. You know, it's the same story. You want to fit in because we are social preachers, we are social animals. We we we like to be a herd. But you can be part of the herd, and you can enjoy things that other

people enjoy. But at the end of the day, you don't have to lose your identity. And that's the thing that high school. I had a problem with in high school as well, until I started acting and I was exposed to so much into creativity and two people that wanted to think differently, that that wanted to color outside of the line, that wanted to do crazy characters, that wanted to have weird conversations that challenged you. That that's something I think that that you you can take with

you for for the rest of your life. I always remind myself if I'm mad or upset with myself. First, I realized to stop comparing myself, because second I realized if I wasn't myself, I wouldn't have this podcast. Yes, I'm glad for that, and I think everyone should embrace that. And I think social media also depicts this image where especially being a teenager in this time period where we're all on our phones, we need to just realize that it's fake and if we embrace ourselves, that's what's best

for all of us. I think we didn't have social media when I was growing up, and and and and I wonder about that because my generation didn't have that pressure. But what we did have was we still have the same pressure that social media brings, except it was it was oh, what jacket are you wearing? What music are you listening to? Do you like the same things that

I do? Um? Uh, those same things. But your generation is it's so much harder because you've got pictures in front of you every day saying this is how you should look, this is the best way to do your makeup, these are the artists that you should like. And if you don't like these things, then I can then you're not great. And social media is dope. It's a really wonderful way to disseminate informa shan and and to get comedy and to share experiences. But that's the downside that

I don't like. And as the parent of a team, I've seen how it can influence and how it can cause a lot of distress. Yeah, and it really affects I think affected my mental health more than ever. During I think winter break of my sophomore year, I was like, I need to cut social media out. So for the entire two weeks I shut my phone off and I had so much extra time. I taught myself how to play the ukulele. Because the amount of time I was on my screen, it like my day opened up. You

taught yourself to play the ukulele. Yes I did, awesome, Yes I did. It was fun. Do you have the ukulele with you right now? I don't, but those two weeks we're so lovely. I was on it. I tell myself how to play somewhere over the rainbow. That that that's a great use of time. I'm inspired now because I keep saying that I won't be able to play, and then it really well, Like I half heartedly can

play play the piano enough to write. But I thought, you know the pandemic, I'll sit down and now really focus. I didn't learn to play them so so so I applaud you for your two weeks. Good job. I appreciate that it wasn't out of a place of like motivation. It was when my anxiety was at its worst. It's actually the time I created this podcast because my anxiety was so bad and I needed to take time out and really ground myself and think about what inspires me

and honestly, sometimes negative situations. If I didn't have that, I wouldn't have this podcast. So I think when you turn anything to a positive, you don't know what can happen. And that's what life is. And it's great, big you nailed it, and and that's why you shouldn't compare, because you end up, especially in the entertainment business, you see someone's journey and you're like, Wow, they've got X, Y and Z. Why am I not there? You're exactly where

you're supposed to. The each event that has happened has led you to that place. Like when I get interviews, sometimes folks go, oh, are you saying you dance? You actually do this pick one? I go no, And it's

not be being coy. It's because truly, if I didn't do any of the things that I learned to do or that are in me, we wouldn't be having this talk right now because I wouldn't have been able to do the show that got me to that place, so that we're doing this, so we just need to embrace the things that we've got and keep it moving exactly. And though I was off social media for this two weeks completely, I will say I have been on TikTok way too much because of this pandemic, and I have

gone down the whole of it. It's possible, it is, And I will say I love your TikTok. I am I am entertained. How would you say that's your favorite app at the moment for social media app? Um? Yes, yeah, TikTok because I like, for someone who I've I've labeled myself in the past, you know that I'm very much an introvert and I'm not an incredibly sociable person when I'm not on camera or on screen, and and there's nothing against other people. I just like my own company.

So TikTok opens me to the fact that I love the TikTok community, Like I like watching people comments on each other's pictures and for the most part, they're very positive. People love seeing other people win, and that does something for me. So that's why I do like that that app. And if you'd have told me before the pandemic that I would enjoy TikTok. I would have laughed at you. In fact, I did laugh when when my daughter first brought it up to me my league and she said, oh,

let's do a TikTok, Like, what, what the hell's it is? Now? It's silly, I'm grown right, but but it's fun. It really is. And I was hesitant for a while because when I was like thirteen, I got into musically, which is like what it was, and I would spend hours doing these hand motions whatever it was, and it was just I was hesitant to go back down that hole. But I'm glad I did because it when you there's a good and bad to every app of course, but when you find the positive side of it, it's so

much fun. The editing is cool and and jumping on the dance challenges are great, and I love watching people use it to be creative. I think that's what TikTok is really exploded into. The Creativity on TikTok is great. There. The comedy on TikTok is great, and you can find anything you want. It's almost like if you like battle rap, there are people doing battle rap. If you like Polly TikTok. Then then then there's an amazing Polynesian TikTok and all

the cultural dances. If you like modern dance or jazz, if you like comedy, a news TikTok, the socially conscious feed. It's it's really opened my eyes to social media. So I've stopped being angry and going I'm not going on social media blah blah blah. Now I truly enjoy it, and I will say I've been very inspired on there. I don't know if you've heard of Emily and Abigail. They created bridget In the musical where they love it.

It's great we had so we had them on this podcast and it's they're doing it all in their house and they just finished the concept album. I'm like, that's incredible your generation. I'm telling you, I'm so proud of you guys. Because TikTok um I was involved in Ratatui

the Musical and it started off the same way. It was a concept, and all of a sudden, the community ran with that concept and the next thing you know, you have something where all these Broadway stars where we're all online doing Ratitui the Musical, and now bridgets in the musical has a concept album, and all these people have tuned into it. TikTok is changing the way that we view getting things done. In response to your first question about handling the pandemic, I think that's the coolest

thing that I've seen. The pandemic has shown me, and you're a perfect example of it. Just because your circumstances, you're stuck here and you can't do something outside, you go, you know what, I'm going to get this done and it happens. That's amazing to me. You don't need to wait for anyone to make something happen, So that's off. I think one of the biggest things is that for a lot of people with my generation, we don't necessarily ask permission to do something. We do it and then

whatever comes from it comes from it. Yeah, we've been going through the pandemic for about a year and a half now, and the pandemic mixed with social media, it can affect your mental health in a lot of ways. We have to take a quick break, but when we come back, I want to talk to you about the cocktail of the pandemic and mental health and how you've been dealing with it. We'll be right back, and we're back. Let's get into the pandemic and mental health. First off,

how are you doing? I mean, I suppose it's been like everyone in the sense of I and the rest of my family. We engage in therapy regularly, so we have so we make it a point to reach out to our therapists and we talk. We talked to each other. We have family therapy and we have individual therapy. And years ago, I kind of thought that therapy was, you know, the the old thing is, I'm not sicker, I'm not crazy.

Why do I need therapy? And use those words that are very, very rough, you know about therapy, until I really realized the therapy it's simply a way of you talking, and and the more you can talk and share, you can lighten that load, not just for yourself but for someone else. So my mental health, I'd like to think it was decent because I kept using those tools which in a place where we were shut down, you couldn't

have any interaction with your friends or family. I didn't see my mom for a year and a little bit. Um it can get dark, and I know that that's what Whether you're a teenager, you're an adult or whatever. You need that sense of connection, so we really dug into the therapy to keep our sense of connection and

sense of self. I've been going to therapy on and off since I was I think seven, and I don't understand why there's a stigma with it, because just like with exercising your body, it's exercising your mind and becoming the best person you can. If you have more strategies to help you if you have anxiety or depression or O c D, like, utilize those because it can really help. Well that that wasn't the narrative, you know, the weird narrative.

I think the narrative about your mental health goes hand in hand with the outdated thing of telling little boys to to act like men. I'm telling girls to to be a lady. There are all these outdated modes of thinking that have been passed from generation to generation, and the mental health peace was one of it. Is like, it's okay to be physically strong and to suck it up. Man up, that's what you heard a lot, man up? Man up? Well what does that mean? What does that mean?

Or like do you play like a girl? It's like, okay, I what is that supposed to be men sold I am a girl, right those those those are so outdated. So I think I think once again, your generation is part of the push to change all of those narratives, to show that therapy isn't a dirty word. It isn't to be stigmatized. You. You are not to be shunned it. You shouldn't be afraid of telling your friends, oh, I may be in mental distress without it being a thing.

It's it's it's It should be just as commonplace. You're right as going to the gym, Like I'm gonna go to the gym, and then after the gym, I'm going to my therapist because I'm going to work out here here and here, you know exactly, And you know, I remember the thing in the beginning of high school, I didn't tell anyone I went to therapy, and some of my old friends their parents um said it was for the crazy. So if I ever brought it up, it

was for the crazy. So I didn't tell anybody, and I think that brought a little bit of shame to it. But when I realized how much I was growing as a person and other people weren't, it just made me realize Okay, I'm doing what's right for me. If they're not, that's their issue, right, It's health. Yeah, that's why it's

mental health. It's so weird to me that there is not a stigma in everyone's head about smoking or doing some something that can damage your body, but there's stigma about getting health, health and healthy forward for your mind and your heart. For example, jeweling right, social media and teams they normalize and be like, oh, I'm just going to hit the jewel and so that became normal and

not a bad thing. So why don't we just normalize therapy whereas actually, because it's that's actually normal, and don't do that with things that aren't good for you. Well, you're a part of that conversation by you having this talk right now, and you're using your platform, you're a part of the normalization process to your peer group. So that's why why we need conversations like this. Yeah, and that's what I set out to do with this podcast.

You know, I feel like there's so much fakeness, and you know, a lot of the time there are so many media trained answers and things are so protected. But if we're just have an honest conversation and it helps one person feel less alone, Like, think of what that could do. Yeah, that's why I just realize. I was like, yeah, like the name of your podcast, that's the thing, you know,

Let's be real. That's what it is. That that that if you can just cut to the chase of of be be real with with where where you are mentally, be real with the fact that if you need help, be real with how you're feeling. No, nothing bad can come out of you truly connecting with your feelings. Yeah. And it's also it's okay to not be okay all the time. I think that's important to Yeah, yes, just say that. And that's fine because we're are new changes,

you know. Ah, thank goodness for for you man. That's really we need this message spread far and wide and it has to come out just as naturally as all the other stuff that we end up spreading on social media. So so for so feel like to me that if somebody wants to be an influencer, you know, no, no, that every young person wants to be an influencer in influence, this influence, mental health, influence, being able to connect and communicate. Yeah, that's a good thing. And I think the other thing

that's so interesting is to normalize something is important. But sometimes if you don't, especially on TikTok or social media, people are like, I'm having an anxiety attack. It's like, no, you're anxious. There's a difference, and I think when people don't distinguish that it takes away from people who are actually struggling. So there's a balance with everything. Well, it's education.

So if we normalize everything, and if we have the discussions about mental health, then people will know the difference between that they too. They will know how to communicate in the language of therapy. They will know how to talk about how they feel right now, because it's not common. People are just taking their best stabs at it. That's why why they say saying things like that. I will

say something that's helped me with my anxieties distraction. When I'm distracted, I don't worry about my thoughts and I will say I'm not gonna lie. Sometimes when I've been really anxious, I do watch whose lines it anyways, and it actually does really help distract me and it brings me some laughter. Right up, I have some questions for you regarding that, so I know it's all on the spot. But do you not have any preparation at all? No,

there's no preparation none. That's beyond amazing to me. I mean, besides improv and having no heads up, it's also the songs you guys create on the spot. It's genius. Thank you. You've done whose Line for many years now, what would you say your favorite memories are? There are things that we've done on whose Lines that that have touched me because of the people I've done it with, Like getting

improvised with Robin Williams. That's a dream to to to be able to do things things like that with with and this is the old version, not the version that we have on the c W now, but Robin Williams, Whoopie Goldberg, to meet some of my comedy heroes. Those are the moments that I go, oh, man, I remember that that. That was completely awesome. But in terms of remembering the moments and the specific game, not necessarily because

you're just having fun for us doing the show. It's like when you hang out with your friends, you're just doing the thing that's in the moment, and then it's finished and then you look at it later. I'm still surprised when when I go back and like my daughter will be watching something or a couple pop up on BuzzFeed or someone goes, hey, you look at this. I go, oh, that's really cool. Oh my gosh, that's funny as hell. Okay,

so so I kind of yeah. So so that's that's my fun is being it later and being reminded of it. I find improv so interesting and so fun to watch, and from the outside looking in, you make it seem so easy, even though it is so not. My cousin actually took a couple of improv classes, that's good, and he was telling me how hard and difficult was at first, but that the more he got comfortable with it, he had a new sense of confidence. Do you remember the

first time you ever improvised? No, not really, because I think it was in a class setting thing. Um. But oh but but I will say, I'm so happy for for your cousin. And even though I don't remember the first time I did it, I do remember the sense of of of confidence that does come from once it's a skill that you've started to open. And this is where people get get tripped up just because you see us do it on who's line, You aren't supposed to

be able to do it. I mean like, really, when you watch a football game, are you gonna run down on the field and you mean to tell me you think right now you can play as well as any of the guys on that football team that have put in years of work. It's a it's a skill set. It's a real skill set. Do you go and you tell tell your doctor, oh, you know what the surgery thing looks like. No, it's a skill set, so first let that go. If you take an improv class, don't

worry about being funny. This is the methodology that I try to tell people. It's about learning the skills that can unlock that self confidence for you, like you're saying

that that your cousin has. When when I've taught in the past and there's there's a curriculum that I'm working on and I and a piece of my company that we're going to start doing doing applied improvisation to to core to businesses and this has been happening for years, I would do that, well, well, that's part of what what what we're gonna be doing and part part of what different companies have have done. It's to teach the skill set of yes and of listening, of the communication.

It's not about being funny. It's to be able to give you the power to stand on stage, to be able to speak to someone. Because if you really think about the energy that it takes for a lot of people, not not everyone, because there are people who are born communicators. I'm not one of those people. The energy that it takes me to be able to start a conversation with someone that I don't know, right, Like you're starting from zero, right, it's amazing you. Oh no, I've got to talk to

this person. What am I going to say? Huh? Improvisation or learning those basic tenants gives you a foundation in public speaking. You can look someone in the eyes, you can talk to them, you can make your point clearly. You you don't have to beat around the bush. You can open your mind to different avenues of thinking and quickly. The funny part, that's an that's an add on. That is a very skill specific thing, the basic skills of it. That's what I wish that because those skills are actually

kind of tied into what we're talking about. Those are therapeutic skills. The the the listening piece and and the communication piece. Those are all therapeutic pieces that improv locks into what would you say your favorite go to improv exercises when I'm teaching or my favorite Uh, I think that I love any exercise that opens that opens your mind in terms of your pathways and and makes your thinking flexible. So so it can be any exercise. It

just has to be something that gets you thinking. So even if it's something silly, like there's an improv because called called one Worder Time Story where you're listening to somebody else and trying to tell a story. Or this thing called Bunny Bunny Bunny where where it's a physical game where you're in a circle and you're passing a money and people are jumping around. It's it's it's big and silly, but it's designed to free you up. So those are the things I think so in a classroom setting,

those are good good exercises. I loved what you said about how it's it's like the therapy exercises is communicating, is looking people in the eye. Um, you've done so much is or something you haven't done yet that you want to do the list of things that I haven't done is almost greater than the list of things that I've done. Um, I have so many things that I'd

love to finish. UM and projects that i'd love to be involved in, Films that I'd love to do, roles on Broadway that I'd love to create, projects that I want to write, songs that I want to sing. I think that you should have that list until the day you lead the earth. That you should never just go ah, I'm done. You should write a musical. Have you Have you written a musical? I feel like it would be incredible.

Oh well, I thank you for that voter confidence. Were We're working on a Broadway show right now that we had a development for about a year and a half to two years that will have music in it that knock on wood. That will be something that that I'll be taking a Broadway next year. But I just like telling stories, so if it happens to take the form of musical, then I would be on. I'm so excited

that Broadway is coming back. It's official. Like I've seen on Instagram people like at these shows and I'm like, oh, but one time I want to be in New York. Yeah. Last time I was on Broadway was a was over a year and like almost a year and a half ago, when I was with Freestyle Love Supreme, I saw that Broadway come on Back, Baby. Yes. So one of my favorite things about Freestyle of Supreme is they take your phone that you can't access them. That was like that.

This is refreshing, not only for the social media aspect. I love the fact that Lynn and Tommy wanted to do that. But to your question about some something like who's lying, I love the fact that that experience that you have as an audience member that night, that's it. You don't have the video, you can't go back, you can't post it. It speaks to the essence of improvisation. The thing that you like that night is only going to live on in your memory, and that is such

an amazing way to present arts. My grandma's professional pianist. We grew up on musicals. Is there a certain musical that you wish you could be in on Broadway? If you could choose any musical, be any character in that musical, what would it be? Hm. I'm lucky enough that I've gotten to be in some of the musicals that I really loved, Like I was Lola and in Kinky Boots, Hamilton and Hamilton's Billy Flynn in Chicago, and and I mean I wish I was Tom Collins and Rent Uh.

I wish that I could have been seaweed in hair spread. I wish that I would have been seaweed and hairspray. That that's something that yeah, yeah, I really wanted to be seaweed and hairspray. Okay, we have to take one more quick break. But when we come back, as a huge Hamilton's fan, I want to hear about your experience playing Aaron Burr in Hamilton's. We'll be right back, and we're back. Let's talk about your experience in Hamilton's. Okay,

first of all, what was that? Like, I've done a lot of musicals in my life, but doing Hamilton's was the closest that you could get to being in a rock concert or a spectacle that as soon as you walk out, like starting off the show was berg. You know, we hear whether they done, done, done, my open night, you hear then, and then it's just so you can't even hear the music when to come in on how

how does the Bestard Orphan sona? But you can't hear that because the audience, especially at that point because it really was just a year after the first cast, so it's still like an event. So people are watching that show like it's their favorite pop star or their favorite rapper or someone they came knowing every word so like singing along with you and looking you in the eye

in the front row. You're like, I can't mess these words up because these a little sixteen year old kids will will will be mad at me after the show. It's it's amazing. It truly is one of the highlights of my career. Just amazing. When when I saw it after, I felt like I was floating. It was the weirdest experience. It was the most because you feel every emotion in that show quite everything. It's a it's a to roller coaster. I felt that Lynn Lynn has an amazing job in

Tommy Tomic Kale as the director as a team. When I first saw In the Heights, I felt that way. I saw In the Heights like five times right off the bat before I ever met you met Lynn, And then in seeing Hamilton's for the first time, I felt that way. You know that you're seeing something that is new, it's broken the paradigm of what musicals are. You leave going, oh my god, I'm so inspired. I'm ready to just oh this is great. That's I felt the same way.

I love that feeling. I love that feeling. It's magical, and I think that's what That's what musicals do. They tell a story in a way that when it's live, it's so incredible. Nothing like it. What would you say the best advice you've ever received is that you wish you could pass on? Um, I'd say the best advice is actually very simple advice that it's not gonna sound like it's groundbreaking, But the older I get, and the longer that I've been in business, the longer that I've

been alive, it makes more sense to me. It truly is know who you are. Get to know yourself, and the reason why I think it's such good advice, and it's easier said than done, especially when you're in a business where your job is to play, make believe or it's too even if you're a personality on TV or a talk show or a podcast, you are a heightened version of yourself. If you get to know who you are,

right decisions become easier. If you know the things that you like, if you know the things you don't like. If you know the people that you want around you, if you know the things that you will fight for, if you know the things you will settle for, if you know the crap you won't take. If you know those things, your decisions almost become magically easy. You don't

have to stress about it. If if something is presented to you and you know I will not accept that, no, thank you, Well that's really what I want to do. I'm doing this. It took me a long time to learn myself, to become myself. And I tell that to my daughter or two young actors when I teach. I spent I think the first five years of my on TV career not knowing who I was because that wasn't the path that I thought that I would be presented. And all of a sudden, I've got all these options.

I wasn't prepared to go yes or no. I was like, sure, okay, I guess no. Good decisions are not made with I guess. So if you're younger and you start the process now of saying this is what I want, and it doesn't mean that it's gonna stay that way, because you're gonna change who you are now, different, who you will be as some of that graduate college, who you will be at thirty, who you will be for the rest of your life. But you can keep updating that list as

long as you've got a good baseline. That's the thing. Don't wait until you're thirty to start figuring out who you are. That's what I did. It was like, Oh, I guess, I guess I'll start that work now. No, get into it. That's a great piece of advice. It's so important. We should all live by that more well, lad, I can help when you're creating projects. How do you balance your vision for something while pleasing other people and trying to make something that the audience will still like.

I've created a couple of shows, but I mean, I think I can speak from the perspective of working with great people who have created the shows that that I've been on. Once again, you can't you can't worry about making the audience happy. Now I say that, of course the audience has to be happy. You want to create a show that people watch, so that just goes without saying. So when I say don't worry about making the audience happy, I don't mean you creating a vacuum and go whatever.

What I mean is, if you've got a story like this is the story that is going to be told, as long as the story is told masterfully, and he's like, this is the story. You're not going to make everybody happy because not everyone has the same taste. Yeah, we we sit at home all the time. There are some my favorite shows that I watched and I go, no, she shouldn't be with him. I would have had her go with the other boyfriend that she had in high school,

but that wasn't the story that they told. So I think as long as you pick a lane, this is the story, and you rock with it and you go and you are fully committed to it, even if someone doesn't like it, they have to respect the effort and what it is. I completely agree with you, and I think that's something that I'm struggling with a little bit, focusing on what I want but also trying to make things marketable, what's appealing. And it's a really interesting balance.

But I think you're so right, and you just have to follow your instincts. But but there is a balance, and so I think the balance starts with, you know, the marketplace. What's an idea that people would like to see present that idea, but do it your way. My dad always says, he says, you know, if everyone could do it, that it would be easy. Exactly, if everyone could do it, it would be easy. That's that sums

it all up. And that goes back to whether you're at home going oh, I can't do that improv thing, or or whether you're watching How How I Met your Mother going well, that ending stuck. You didn't do it. Someone did it. Someone else put a lot of work and became an outlier to be able to crash that thing. I think also it's appreciating the art and just the journey of it. I think that's we are a lot of time as a society we focusing on We focus on the ending of something, then we forget about how

wonderful the entire thing was as a whole. I feel like, yes, go ahead, speak on it. Your so good? Yeah, Well, thank you Wayne for coming on my podcast. I this conversation has really inspired me, and I'm excited good for everything that's to come. And I know you're working on a lot, and I'm excited for the possible Broadway sometime next year. Keep your eye out, it's gonna be good. It's gonna be really good. Okay, I will come many times to the show. Okay, I hold you to that. Yeah,

absolutely well, thank you. It's my pleasure and I truly do. I'm so glad that I got it off to to you. I support you, and I'm wishing the best for you. Go out there and kill it. Thank you guys so much for listening to the first episode of season three. I hope you guys enjoyed it. Wayne if you're If you're listening, thank you so much for coming on my podcast. I cannot express to you how surreal and special that

conversation was to me. If you haven't already subscribe to the podcast, leave a comment something you like, maybe something you didn't like, suggestions for other people you want to have on. I love to read your moments. You can also DM me and follow me on Instagram at it Sammy J. That's I T S S A M M Y J A y E. I love talking to you guys, season three. Get excited, you guys. Next week I have a very special guest, a friend of mine that, trust me, you won't want to miss. I'll see you next week.

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