Featuring Dulé Hill

just gonna say it. I started the episode by bringing a pineapple because if you are a fan of the show psych and you are a psycho, you know you know. Anyways, I love you, guys, and I hope you love this episode. Two. Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of the Letsbie Oral Podcast. I am so honored because I am sitting next to the one and only Dole Hill. Thank you so much for coming on. It's my pledge, is

my pledging. You have such a unique perspective, and I think you're such an underrated artist because you've been in the business for so long and you've been in such a variety of stuff. But before we start, I feel like it needs to be sad that I'm a psycho and and I'm so excited to get into this conversation. Well, I'm glad that you are a psycho. I'm glad to be here, and I'm glad that you are a fan

of Delicious Flavor. Absolutely, the psych world really holds a place close to my heart, like the entire fan base. Not just it's it's a it's a whole, it's a whole thing, figger than itself at this point, it really is. And what I love about the psyche world is that I feel like I feel that psychos celebrate and appreciate

our unique idiosyncrasy is what makes us different. You know, some folks may think we're like in general, made me think we were Like people might think Gus is a cornball, but psychos celebrate that like that's Gus is who he is, and it's and he's worth celebrating. And not not only on the show itself, but I think that is translated into the whole site community. We celebrate what makes us unique, our unique glow full like a pineapple. Have you ever

tried white pineapples? A real question? I have not. I've never even heard of white pineapples. Okay, so when I was in Hawaii, they have white pineapple and it's white on the inside and it's like pineapple without the acidity. Really, you're sweeten. Really it is heaven. If you can never get your hand on some white pineapple was underrated fruit I've ever had in my life. And everyone needs to be aware of you. See, I need to check it out.

Check it out. And if you turn on Psychle one day and here is talking about and they say Psyched the movie whatever, and here is talking about a white pineapple, then you know where it came from. You know what? I think you just have to try and get ready. Um. Something that I also need to tell you that I did mention before is I did join a top class because you inspired me. I think that's phenomenal. I would love to start with tap. What drew you to that sport?

Because it is a sport. I mean, yes, it is a look. It is a sport that I do think. You have to be athletic in your own way to be able to dance in general, but especially to tap dance, just the way your body moves and contorts to create rhythm. For myself, I started at the age of three, and I really was just following the crowd because my brother and my cousins were going to a dance school. My mom was a ballet teacher there at the dance school.

It's a school called Marie Wildly School of Dance in eastern New Jersey, and I went there just to be around them as I was about the age of three, and I was took jazz, tap in ballet, and as I kept going, I started to get more affinity for a tap and then at the age of nine, I booked this show called The Tap Dance Kid, which was on Broadway, and I just studied Savior and Glover on Broadway for really about like five or six months, and then I did the lead role on the national tour

for another year. But on the national tour I performed with somebody by the name of Harold Nicholas, who was of the legendary tap group the Nicholas Brothers. They're an iconic tap duo. And being able to see what Harold was doing day in and day out compared to what I was doing really inspired me to go deeper in dance because that's I was able to see the musicality of dance and all of what you can do with it,

I guess. A few years later I ended up doing a show called Black and Blue on Broadway at the same Minskoff Theater, and you see what I'm saying, And that was with our Bunny Briggs, Lin Cheney, Ralph Brown, Buster Brown, Chuck Green, Jimmy Slide. These are all the hoover Is, the legends of legends of tap and being around them and really seeing what they were doing continuous had me go deeper and deeper. And then finally, when I was about twenty, Savioan Glover called me to see

what I was doing. And I was a junior at cton Hall University of New Jersey, and he needed one more dancer for a show called Bringing Noise, Bring the Phone, and I did that off Broadway, and then we went to Broadway. And that's really when I started to grasp onto tap as my own because I started to really understand how it is music, how it is communication, and how it is really it's a language, and for me it started to become a thing that was very cathartic.

I was able to deal with my emotions and speak on things that I didn't have the vocabulary to speak on, just by putting it into my dance. We watched a short film on top my class. It was amazing and if there was a stylog just through their steps, and I've never seen anything so just mesmerizing like that. The reason why I think tap is mesmerizing is because of the musicality, because that's the only dance form that's both

a dance and music. You know, if you hear music, it can just draw you in the how melodic it is and the phrasing of things, and tap is the same way that as people are expressing them themselves through dance and through music, I think the music side of it really can draw you, draw you into that way. Do you have any other creative outlets. I've been trying to learn how to play the piano. I've been using this app called Simply Piano Piano. Has it been helping

very much? I took it. I picked it up around Christmas time. I did not know how to read music or anything, and it has really been helping me out. I can now reach heat music, I can know where how to play on the on the keys. That's huge. Yes, it's pretty impressive. And this is not a paid endorsement or anything. I just really picked up Sampo piano and I love it. You know, I paid my monthly fee every month. It's like you know, some app costs, and uh,

you learn all these songs? What songs I've played? What's the what's the song that that's in my head right there? It's a song from Poor Game Best that I I've learned how to play. I've learned how to play the James Bond theme song. I've learned how to play a whole bunch of like some of a Room five song. All these kind of like the library of music that they have in here is pretty impressive. So what are

you working on now? What's the goal next? Well? All right, I mean I can open up my app because if you look at it, a simple piano right there on my is buffering this so I can come back to when it when it actually comes on, because I guess the signal side here is not you we'll come back to it. Yeah, but I love it, so I've been doing that. And then also because of the show that I'm on now, The Wonder Years, Hey, I talk about it. I'm looking forward to it. But okay, hold on, I

write along to me simply piano. It's loading, guys, I got a feeling. Okay, see you're right here. That's gonna be the next thing I work on set right there? How long do you spend a week generally playing piano when I'm working a lot, because in between setups, we have a piano on the set, and in between setups, I'll go and play. And I'm filming Atlanta, so I'm by myself. My family is still here in l A. So I will at home at night just to entertain myself and to learn. I'll do that. It's a little

more challenging here to spend the time. Yeah, I mean, I'm like I said, then be on a piano for forty five minutes when I can spend time hanging out with LEVI. So it's been harder at home. It's been really hard at home to pick up my other thing which I'm doing, which is the saxophone. But the saxophone, I've played saxophone when I was in middle school. I

played it for about four years. Then I put it down for about fifteen years, and then I did a show off broad on Broadway in twenty thirteen around there called After Midnight. That was with Fantasia Barrino. Desmond Richardson, all these phenomenal in a cast full of phenomenal artists in the Jazz at Lincoln Center, all stars. So in my mind, I'm working with these great musicians. I might also trying to maximize the time. So I dusted off my saxophone, and thankfully a lot of the cats there,

especially Mark Gross who's a brilliant saxophone player. He uh, I started teaching me how to play. So I started learning thing, and then of course once the show ended, I put it back down. And then now for wonder years, my character Bill Williams on the show, he plays the saxophone. Actually he plays the guitar, the piano, and the saxophone.

That told Salady and Patterson, who's the show creator, that I'm having more of an affinity for the sacks, and I know that better, so the more we can use that, the better. So now he's leaning more into him playing the saxophone. And I have a teacher out there too, who comes to the setting is uh Shepherd. He thought there teaching me how to how to play the sacks, and I love it. Always learning, always learning. I think it's important to always keep learning, you know, That's how

you keep expanding in mind. That's how you keep leaning into tomorrow, that's how you keep growing. This years ago, I was, you know, I'm a tap dancer, and I was talking to Jimmy Slide, who was one of the legends of dance, and I was always enthralled with the idea of the journey of a hoofer, you know, like the journey of tap dancers, and really jumping through without going all into the whole conversation. He's told me, you know, people call me a tap master, but you can never

be a master of tap. Every time I put on my shoes, I keep learning, I keep growing. The day I put on my shoes and I stopped learning, and I stopped growing, is it danny to take my tap

shoes off? That always stuck with me that no matter how good you are at something, no matter how prolific you are at something, whether it's an art form, or whether it's what you do with your job, or whether it's how you interact with people, always keep leaning into it because it's always something to learn, is always a place to grow. It really struck me that this is somebody who had been dancing for half a century by that point and he was a tap master. He's passed

away now, but he was a tap master. But in his mind, you can never master that. You have to keep leaning into that. I just think that that's a brilliant, agrelliant way to approach life, absolutely, And I feel like, what's the fun of life if you're not learning and keeping your mind open and just keep expanding your horizons and trying things that you can't get right away, failing, failing up. You're only failing if you don't get back up. That's right, You're just trying. It's like, come on, let

me let me try to get this thing. Let me try it again, Let me try it again, let me try it again. It's the way that I tried to live my life. It's a good way too. And I think you have a very unique perspective. You've been in the business a very long time and there are a lot of ins and outs that people don't see. And I was wondering what the most difficult part of the entertainment industry that you face that isn't discussed much. I think it varies depending on which stage of life that

you are in stage of your career. When I first was looking to create space for myself as an actor. That was the biggest challenge was getting people to see me as an actor because I started as a tap dancer mostly on Broadway. I was doing musicals and trying to create that space of I'm an actor. I can do scene work. I think one of the most flattering, our most appreciative compliments I ever got was when Aaron Sorkin said to casting he said, if more dancers act

like Dole, than we need to hire more dancers. And that really was because I was fighting so much trying to create space as an actor. It's kind of funny because now people don't realize always that I'm a tap dancer, because that was like you dance. It's funny how life can evolved that way. But when I was younger, that was the part about the career, just trying to create space and in terms of trying to get people to see me as an actor, but also trying to just

create space for myself in the business. Like I felt like I was a good actor. I felt that I had something to offer and getting someone to see that, especially someone like Aaron Sorkin and being on a show that is so dialogue heavy and it's you know, it's so fast paced. Was being on that show? Do you think that helped you um grow as an actor? Just being around that kind of right and that kind of

you know, go go go, oh, yeah you can. You can't be around doing the words of Aaron Sorkin being directed by Tommy Schlami, working with Martin Sheen and Alison Jenny, John Spencer, Richard Schiff, Brad for you know, Rob low Stocker chanting. I mean, the list goes on. You can't be around that group of creative people and not get better. It's like if I played basketball every day with Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Magic Johnson and Larry Birds, you would improve exactly.

And I'm not a good basketball player, not at all, but I wouldn't. There's no way that I could keep playing with them for seven years, day in day out and not get better. I think you are known by the company you keep, which is why I tried to always get around people who who can inspire me to reach reach further. Yeah, it's surrounding. You know, you are who you surround yourself with. And when you surround yourself with other driven people that make you want to be better,

you want to do the same same thing. You know, it's funny to talk about the West Wing to being a tap dance to help me understand how to tackle the dialogue of it's all rhythm. And once once I got that that, it all made sense to me. I said, Oh, this is a song. Yeah, this is all just musicality right here. West Wing truly is just musicality like it is so it is so brilliant. What is the biggest

takeaway you learned from that show? I think one. There's a few things, so I guess it wouldn't be the biggest. It would be a few of the big takeaways. One was to always stay humble in the midst of what's going on because it's not going to last forever. I really appreciate how Martin Sheen was is such a humble person. He's always connected to his fellow beings. He's not a subjector of persons, meaning he's not going to talk to you one way because he doesn't look at you as

as being a value. Everyone is a value involved in the creative process, from Aaron Sorkin to a p a who just came on set for one day. And I was aware of that. I could see because I very rare. It is very rare, and I had just done a team movie before that name She's all that. And I've seen how a lot of my peers we're acting on

the set. It was my first studio film, and being on that set and seeing how the egos that were there that could be amongst a lot of a lot of people, but in that case a lot of young people. And then to come to the West Wing set and see how Martin, who it's such a great, vast body of work, how humble he was, how connected he was really stuck with me, And for myself, I said, that's more the path that I want to follow. That seem

that resonates more with me of appreciating people. And I guess for myself too, because I've been on the other side of the coin, especially being in Noise Funk where Savian was the you know, the big quote unquote star, and that's that's that was my brother, my my my man, and we would roll tight and I would go to places with him. But because people then I recognize me, Oh yeah, I got the soft handshake that hey, how are you doing, brother? And moving on, you know what

I mean? And even and even after she saw that because me and Freddie Prince are very close and hanging out with Freddie Prince during that time, he was Freddie Prince. Yes, I was in the movie, but I wasn't Freddie. I would get that same thing here in l A two of The Brush Off. Really, it is not until West Wing came along that people started to now they want to be up in my face. But I took that in of I'm still me, and I think it's important to always engage people, no matter who they are, where

they are, you know. So that's something that took away from it. And then the other thing that I took away from it, from the art, from the craftmanship of it is to keep reaching. It's like a theme. I keep going back to this, but I remember, you know, the first season we got we won Best Drama, and we're getting all these awards, and the collective energy of the past and the crew was let's go higher, let's go deeper, let's not live off of our laurels of yesterday.

We had a great first season. The second season is even harder. Let's keep digging, and that I like, that's still how I am. As a tap to answer on that way and as an actor on that way, and I hope that as a person on that way where it's let's keep going further, it is more to get you know what. That's so funny you say that, because I think that shows and everything you've done, but also with Psych alone, the movie is just keep getting better. It's like it's the thing that it's like it just

doesn't want to stop. It just doesn't want to stop. So it's one of those things. And I know that Psych it's such a collective, a unit. And so those lessons you learned from West Wing, did that translate into that show as well? I think so. I think, uh, I think coming to Psych from the West Wing, it was I came to the show now in a different position because I was more of a lead, one of the leads of the of the show. But Martin's energy stayed with me of respecting everybody and this is how

we're going to do it on this set. Really it still stays with me. And he said that I go to I try to keep that energy where it's like, well, we're all here trying to make something, make somethings exactly. Let's respect everybody, Let's love everybody, let's let's just give our best best sells. I always say, I'm kind of

going down a side street. But if you get a group of brilliant people together, a group of talented people together in a room who respect each other and give space for each other to show their gifts, something brilliant is bound to happen. It will always happen. Now, mind you, that may not always turn into this commercial success, but it depends on how you define personal success. Well I said commercial success. Yeah, yeah, it will be a personal

a personal success. But that's just it's just the art world and not everything you do with a commercial success. But if you get people in the room and we all respect each other, give space for each other, give space for your voice and my voice, and hear each other, and then allow our gifts to shine, something brilliant is going to happen. And that's really what I tried to

bring to every set that I come to. On the site, set was the same thing of it's all I mean, some bits could come up from somebody in the crew just saying that we'll try sure, like if if it made sense. It wasn't just the type of thing of no, you sit there and you do your job and I'll do my job. Or no, only Sean Spen's only James Rode Mariguez, He's the only one that gets to be funny. No, Tim Momson can be funny. Maggie Lawson can be funny.

I could be funny, curs to Nelson Corporate Burnton. If it made the peace funny, then that's what we were going to do. It wasn't about one particular person having to get all the shine. It seems like it's also about the process of making and I feel like so much is focused on the end result a lot of the time, but you know, enjoying the actual process of being in the moment and going off of other people's refs, like it's the most collaborating is I have found personally

in film school one of the most satisfying things. That's one of the parts about this industry that I love the most is being in this space with people and all right, let's create. Let's see what we come up with, and let's see if we hit the hit the target, and if not, then will try again. You know, if we didn't get it right this episode, we're gonna try again next episode. If we didn't get rid of this performance. If it's on stage, we're gonna go deeper. Well let's

try it again. Yeah. I love the creative process. I really get off on it. And I feel like there's something so magical of having an idea and just seeing the process of it coming alive. It's just it's unlike anything I've experienced, and I just want to continue experiencing. And I think you should. I think you should, not

think you will. I appreciate that. I think something that going with psych You guys really played with format a lot, and I think that's one of the reasons why you had different themes from a werewolf theme to a musical theme. You know, you redid the same episode twice, you know, like when you start running out of ideas, you said, you know what was the worst episode that we did, let's redo that one? Is that? Is that how that happened? Because I thought Copy with the Chance of Murder was

a great episode in the first look. It's the type of thing where the further you go along on anything, like the songs that I could sing now that I'm like I could sing, I could sing a lot better now there's material even with the West Wing. I feel like if I went back and had a chance to do some of that material, what could I do with it now? So I think with Psych in that episode, it was we're just to show that swings for the fences and does all these crazy wacky things. What's something

that you don't see on television too often? Then redoing the same I mean, it's so absurd when you think about it. Did I take my hat off to even the USA, you know, for for supporting it, because your network and you're like, what's just the same name? What same thing? So it was really but that was an episode that we didn't feel we got right, that we could have got done better, which I think in general artists probably always feel that way about work that they've done.

But but the fact that you got to actually revisit it and then redo it. Has any other show done that before? I don't think so obviously that's something I would be interested to know. So if somebody's listening to this and has the time to check all the television that has ever been done, but it's like, you's redone the same episode, And I think that's what's so great about it is because you just are so willing to try anything. You're kind of playing with supernatural sometimes and

playing with different ideas. So when it's like four coming out, when is the four movie coming out? That's a good question, you know. I always say, as long as the cycles still wanted, then it will come. So I'm sure that at some point there will be another one. I just don't know when that will be. So to all the cycles, I will say, wait for read. I had to do it, you know that's right? Yeah, there we go. Was that a plan name Gusa? Thank you? Yeah? Yeah, you know

that's right, speaking of a player name Gus. That episode was written by Saladin Kay Pattison, who is the creative of the Wonder Years. No way, and look at that transition, right, It's always connected your career so has so many full circle moments there really is. For example, Chris Henzi, who is the one of the exact producers of Psych. He's also Alison Jenny's manager, so I've known Chris Henzi from the West Wing. That's one of that was one of

the connections of going to Psych. Also, when I was doing Bringing Noise Brain, the Funk USA used to have this campaign called Erase the Hate where they would do like these little commercials, a little interstitials about combating hate. And the person who was running a race to hate back in the nineties when I was doing Bringing Noise, Bring the Funk was a lady by the name of Bonnie Hammer who ended up becoming the President of USA

at the time. And I mean, now she's way up there in terms of the whole universal world, but that was a connection there too. So then now I go and do psych. Then you have Salady and Patterson, who's he was one of the co exact producers and he did that episode that you're talking about. Years later he's doing The Wonder years and now lo and behold here I am. So what is that like working with the same people on different projects. I think it's great. I

love it. I think that's there's something that that's a part of the beauty of our being blessed to have longevity in the industry that you keep crossing past with people, and once you work with somebody started having a backhand like now we're meeting here, Now we crossed passed again two years to years from now. It's more like, hey, it's happening, or you know, yeah, it's it's it's a little, it's a little more familiar, and I think that's the

beauty of being in this business. Even as I'm thinking about a world's connecting I did. I understudied Saving and Glover in the Tap Dance Kid, and then when Bringing Always came around, I work with him again. So the I can make a direct connection of how other steps taken to get to where I am creatively, the people I've crossed passed with. Okay, so we have to take

a quick break. But when we come back, I wanted to talk about the second season of The Wonder Years, how the essence of the show really reflects on our culture today, a lot more about psych and much more. We'll be right back, and we're back. I'm very excited to talk about The wond Years because you said that this show is quote it looks back on yesterday to tell a story about who we are today, and I'd love for you to expand on that, because I think

you said it perfectly. You know, the more things change, the more they stay the same, And often times I think you have to take a look back at yesterday to really engauge where we are and how we got to where we are, how we got to where we are and to see it to kind of like grade yourself, because if I'm just living in a vacuum, then it's like, oh, yeah,

I'm doing great whatever. But it's when it's only when you have in comparison to something you can realize either we've made a lot of change or we have not made a lot of change. You can see how certain things are. Yeah, we've moved forward from from that some ways, not so much, not so much, and recognizing that as so,

because that's the only way to move forward exactly. And that's really that's really what I love about this show is that it's a based in the sixties, based in the sixties about a black family in Alabama, and in the midst of all the trouble of the time, the turbulence of the time, the challenges of the time, they're able to create their very own wonder years and it's filled with love and laughter and heart. It's a good

growing up story. I think it's a great growing up story, and I feel that it's something I appreciate having that on the air now. I completely agree, coming in, week in, week out into our homes. There's not many things on television where families can sit down and watch it together.

Psych I feel like it was one of those uh and this show I appreciate because the lens that is looking through grounds the show a little bit more so it still is dealing with the world around us, but it also is bringing a lot of humor and levity as well. What is it like playing a dad? You know, it's funny he's back. It's kind of like a time warp, Like, wait, wasn't it just in the tap? And it's strange because like on The West Wing, I was I was a young cat. Even on Psyche, we all appears so we're

all just people doing the work. And then I get on Wonder Years and people are talking about how they went around when the first one of the Years came on, you know, you know, and E. J. Williams is saying, you know, do you know he's been around for so long. He's been in this game, for this business for so long. It's really cool to work with someone like I'm like, wait, what I've been about here for so long? What are you talking about? Young man? Me and you the same age.

I'm a kid. You understand because I have a beard and I have some grades doesn't mean that I went out the same age, right, But you know, at first he gets a little shocking of way it's like I'm playing a dad now. But then right on the heels of that, you appreciate it because again going back to what I was saying before about even the wonder years, when you put it in perspective of everything else, that means do let you've been on this journey for a

long time. You've had the opportunity to do it for a long time, to do what you love for a long time. You've been blessed to really create space for yoursel as a creative individual from the age of ten till now. That's that's a huge blessing. So just take it in the fact that you can play a dad on television now is a wonderful thing. Do you have to change your mindset like when going about the acting process, Uh, be more affirmative at all. I don't think so. I

think each character is different. I think the process is always relatively the same. It just depends on who the character is. What is the process generally? I mean, for me, I wonder, how how does this person talk, how do they walk? What is their world view? Like? How do they what is the lands that they look through? I asked myself questions about how do they feel about those who they are around? How do they feel about the

world beyond them? These are questions that I kind of asked myself no matter which character that I'm playing, but I feel Charlie Young walks differently than Burton Guster, works differently, not at all, walks differently from Bill Williams. I think who also? You know, I played a character on Suits that person walked differently. Alex Williams, his energy is different. How do you how do you channel of those energies. It's funny because I don't. It's very hard for me

to put it in words. I've realized that over the years that it's hard for me to actually put in words the process. It's like jazz, it's like music. It just yeah, I just let it. I fill it out. Then, years ago, I did at William Esper Studios, which is where I did my acting classes in New York. I studied with Bill Esper. You know a lot of times through the process you would work from the inside out.

But then for some of the work that we did there, we put on these masks and then you would pick a mask, put on the mask, and then you work from the outside in. So if the mask is a happy mask, if we start to affect how this person moves, and it starts to teach me that all these things come together, you do the homework at home with the inside out. But then also the clothes that I put on, the shoes that I put on. If it's if I'm in slides, is different from if I'm in shoes. It's

different than if I made some platform shoes. That that says a lot about the person. The kind of shoes that they wear. There's a lot about the person that kind of clothes that they wear. Do you ever feel limited in what you wear? Not because you're like, oh that reminds me of that character, you mean personally or as I going to the new personally? Oh no, No, At anytime that I'm allowed to something can make it from their closet to my closet. I'll take it that way.

Do it. Do it? You know, I can either confirm nor deny whether I have anything from any of my characters over the years. I cannot. They may look similar, but they may not necessarily be the exact thing. No, I may have just copied and pasted it. I may have just found out. I found out where was purchased from and from the manufacturer of course, exactly anything you absolutely didn't take from any show anything, I absolutely didn't

take it. But you know, like I mean, let me see, I didn't take a piece of the wheel from the Blueberry. I did not. It's like a piece of the rim. It blew up, well right now, I haven't, haven't. It's like storage being that has like a whole bunch of that stuff in there. I did not take the nameplate from Burton Guster's desk. Never, No, never. I did not take the sign outside of Charlie Young's office that said Deputy Special Assistant to the Chief of Staff. No, I

did not take that. I should have taken the one that said Charlie Young Personal Aide to the President. I wasn't thinking at the time, and I did not take. If those who who watch The West Wing the last episode of the series, Martin Sheen are President, probably gives Charlie Young a copy of the Constitution, it's a little red book. I did not take that. Why would you ever take That's not sentimental at all. I don't have that. So if people are looking for. I don't know where

it is. I don't have. I don't have that. Well, you know, I can either confirm nor there exactly. I'm trying to think from suits? Yeah, do you take anything from suits? Did I have anything from suits? Let me think about it. No ties, no suits, not from the I don't think I have. I think I took some of this. Confirm nor din I you know, especially if Aaron Corsh is listening to this right now, I don't know Eron. I don't know if I've taken anything from that.

I've never taken any suit. You know. The anything about suits is when I was when I was going to Seton Hall. Growing up, my intention was to be a corporate lawyer. I planned to go off to law school, and then around my junior year, when I was doing those phone on Bradway, I really started to ask myself, what is it that I want to do with my life. But I want to go into the corporate world and be a corporate lawyer, or don't want to continue assuming

the arts. I eventually decided to pursue the arts because I realized that that's what I had an affinity for, but also at the time I said to myself, I don't want to wear a suit to work every day. I want to go and be creative, like do that thing. I don't want to wear a suit to work every day. Then my first TV show is The West Wing, which I would have to wear suits every day every day, you know. And then of course Psych I had to

wear suits on that show as well. And then not only that, but then afterwards I get a show called Suits where I plays you know, where I wear suits every day and I'm a corporate lawyer. You've lived every You've lived it out vicariously, I did. I ended up achieving both goals and I was an actor and I was a corporate lawyer exactly. You know what I mean. You've accomplished at all. What was it like working with your wife in Psych? Great? I love working with Jasmine.

We have a good time. It's great to just be creative in that space. Having to join the psych world was a lot of fun because I think it's a I appreciate the love that the psychles have given over the years, the support and being that Jasmine was such a bussing to me in my life personally. I was glad to be able to then to a certain cent share our dynamic in a different way with with with

the psych world, with the psychles. Yeah. So I was great working with her and she especially She's just it was so much fun with the ball of energy coming into the so true and something that if the Psych movie doesn't come out anytime soon, I think we just need the unedited of the birth scene of the last how many that I think we all need. That was a lot going on. Boy, how long did that take? Shot? In? Two days? The one incause it was a long scene.

It's a really long scene and I don't think there was any real plan about how we were going to attack it. So we got there and we're like okay, and then we figured it out and he just kept chipping away it. It was a lot of heavy breathing by using a lot of crying by my part. You know, you've had to do a lot of screams. Oh yeah, here's Lassie. Oh yeah. Oh. I think I think that was really just if I'm not mistaken, did d write that episode? I believe he. I believe he wrote directed

and I don't think maybe directed it. I think it was really just a thing of how can we get do lated scream. Here's an idea, here's Lassie. That was a lot of screaming in that one. That's a terrifying episode. That was a lot of screaming. And Tim Thomason was so great in that episode. He really dove right into

being a different kind of Psycho. Okay, we have to take one more quick break, but when we come back, I want to talk about the second Psycho movie and actually get your thoughts on a very special story Joel McKell shared with me when he was on the podcast recently. That kind a whole lot more right after this and we're back. So Joel McHale was on the podcast and he was telling we're talking about Psych. I just saw Joe mckelly other day. Yeah, if you go onna maybe

Tim's Instagram or uh he was. We had like a birthday at Tim's house the other day. Oh good. He was just on the podcast and he was telling me the whole story about the movie, um, the second movie, UM. And I think it is so amazing how Psych and the family just comes together every time just to support each other and to be there for each other. I know that movie was especially very emotional to make because it was we didn't know if you would be able

to make it again. What was the process like of when that movie got green light and you guys could go into production. I think more. I think less about when it got green light and more when Tim walked on set. That was really the touching moment because with the first Psyche movie, it really was a whirlwind that just happened. The ground shifted me. It was that was something so far off of our radar what we thought. Did you never even think of doing a movie after

the show ended? Or was it just like, we're gonna let it be and see what happened. Chris mccamber who was the president of USA at the time, he said when the show was wrapping up that he's fairly confident this is not the last we'll see of Seawan and Gus now, mind you, you hear that often, so for it to actually come into fruition was pretty surprising and welcomed. But then when Tim had his joke that really really

shook us. We powered through. We're able to do the first Psyche movie, but it wasn't the same because we knew that Tim wasn't on set with us. It's a

part of your family, not there exactly. So when when we were able to now do the second one and to see Tim walk on set, it was I just don't have the words to say how touching it was, how inspiring it was, because Tim had really just leaned into what he was facing and kept putting one foot in front of the other slowly and surely, and he really willed himself back to the set and to see his strength in the midst of that challenge was inspiring

and still is inspiring because he just keeps getting better and better. Uh So seeing him on that set was was just it was great. And then even Joel coming up to do it was was pretty phenomenal to him. We we actually did not you know, Tim Mombinson and Joe mckill are pretty tight. We did not tell Tim who was playing his father. We had like some weird name. I forgot the name that was on the call sheet. We put some weird name on It should have been one of the names that I'm James Rude would call

us like it was something. It was something like that. It was something, And of course Tim wants to know because any actor would want to know who's playing my dad, and it's a great actor he's known. You know, he's hearing from Vancouver, this and that, and he's a theater actor here and he's really great. Was like, huh, then, uh, I can't remember exactly how now I'm trying to remember which some he was here to route. I think he

came on that what happened? Okay, So then it was then when he went on in the rehearsal in his room on the on the set, and then all of a sudden, Joe comes walking on and then Tim was really just blown away to see his his friend coming to play his dad. This industry is there's a lot of challenging things that happened in his industry, but there's also it's also a really good community of people who

love and support each other. At least along my journey, I've been blessed to work with the community people who love and support each other. And when you can find those type of relationships, it really is a wonderful thing. Having Joe come up, I mean, yeah, I'm sure he was a fan of the show and he liked working with us, but really he came up for Tim and that's lovely. That's lovely to see those relationships that can grow out of being creative, out of playing make believe

for a living. I mean, look at you and James your day. Yeah, I mean he's one of my best friends and I have a lot of love for real day. He was one of my groovesmen that my wedding or an outwarding. Uh. You know when I first met Roald Day, I'll never forget when I first was reading, doing chemistry read with him. Oh I wish that was on the video, you know what I mean, probably you're probably looking at my face that if there was on video, my face would be look at him like what are you doing?

Because I came from the world of Aaron Sorkin, where you say the words, the words are written, that's what you say. They've been crafted, they've been like you say the words. And I getting here in this room and this cat is all over the place, he's bouncing off the walls, and I'm like, he already had the job. So my line, I'm like, what are you doing? Like do you have a friend that you want to get in this role? Like what's happening? Uh? So to see

where that has gone. That was in two thousand six and now you're talking about I never would have thought in that moment that sixteen years later we still would be friends, and we would be even closer friends, and he would be really like family, like a brother to me at this point. But again, that's just all comes from playing in the place of make believe, where it's at.

That's all we that's all we're doing. I'm like, that's often times on sets, I'm just like everybody calmed down, relaxed, relaxed. We're just playing make believe here, That's all we're doing. That's all we're doing. Guys. It's like, I don't ever let anybody ever tell you anything different. Yes, the work you do inspires people. Yes, the work you do can

affect change, and this is that. Or we're playing make believe because you're not really so and so like I'm not really Guss, I'm Dula putting on these clothes and playing not really Bill, not really exactly, not really in the same way my son right now says, I'm pretending that that's all we're doing. And some do it better than others, some have opportunities to do it more than others. But even Pacino is playing make believe. We're just playing. Yeah, and I can and that's awesome, and I feel like

it is awesome. I feel like now you need it now more than ever. Telling stories is the most powerful thing. And I also feel like through the storytellings you can tell so much. But it is just make yes, and it's something. That's what I was going to say, is there's things that you can, you know, I grasp from playing, from playing Make Believe or from seeing somebody else play

Make Believe. There's things you can learn about yourself, things you can learn them off the world, things that can inspire you to go and effect change in the real world. But at the core of it, we still are playing making That's just so I always try to remind people of it. It's a good reminder. And so Season two of The Wonder Years is coming out, which is so exciting. I'm very excited to share this world with with our audience.

It's gonna be a lot of fun. We're gonna have a lot of fun guest stars, and I think there'll be a lot of laughs to be had. I'm excited. And what's next for do La Hill? Anything you can say, any manifestations you want to put out, you know, it would be interesting to see. It's a time of transition. You know, our daughter Kennedy has gone off to Northwestern,

so she's there doing her volleyball thing. And that is very surreal because just a few months ago she was at home in high school and the other day I turned on ESPN Plus and there she was playing, and she's like a person playing do you Want? That's been the thing that most every I think has boggled my mind of this is crazy, like how quickly things can change involved Levi is growing up so wonderfully, and it's a time of transition. So I really don't know exactly

what is next. I know what's next is I'm gonna go and knock out this season of the show, but it can I always stay open to what's next. Speaking of what's next, that's like what President Brightly always say, what's next. That's something that stays with me because I'm always open to what is next any personal projects. For personal projects, I want to keep learning the piano. I'm

gonna keep learning the sacks. I have a goal of playing the saxophone on air because then when now when I play on the show, I got the keys right, but someone else's I want them to record it live. One time on the set so that I could say, no, that was me playing that. So that's a little personal goal that I have just keep to keep learning and growing in my art forms. I want to dance more. I want to play the piano more. I want to play the sacks more. I want to sing more. I

want to continue to act. I just I'm gonna feed like so more seed into being creative and just trying to be better. Better, be a better being, be a better husband, be a better father, and be a better man. But also give myself the space and the grace to know that it's a process. Yeah, I've been following. My friend told me about the one percent rule, which is to do something to make yourself one percent better than you were yesterday in one aspect of your life. I

love it. So, whether that's sending an email or doing a yoga class or making a like whatever, it is doing something one thing a day because one percent. And I've been doing it. I know it's a huge difference, but it's I think. I love I love that idea. One thing that I've tried to do and I'm still working on it is to respond to email within twenty four hours. My wife's best friend, Jocelyn. That's like something she does. Within twenty four she respawns back to impressive.

And I'm trying to that's like my little focus because I'm not the best at it. I'm not the best. It's hard. You have to, like dear so and so trying to play this piano, my simply piano, simply piano from on five, you know. But that's something that I'm working on, and I'm I'm working on being on time. I was on time to what I'm saying, and most time with l A traffic, you know, sometimes i'm set, I'm in like a five or seven minute grace period.

I'm always on time to set. I'm not always on time to the greater set, but when it's time to roll, ready to roll, I'm ready to roll. Yeah, there's a few times, I won't say very few. Casality's probably gonna hear that and be like very few times, but just a few times that they're actually waiting for me on set. But I can be late to work or late to an appointment if I'm working on that. Ye're human, you know, But I also don't like people to be late when

it when it's for me. So that's the hypocrisy of my life. Everybody, but you know what, we all have it well. Juli, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to call my podcast, this conversation and truly just made my week. I'm so excited to watch The Wonder Years season two and see what else is to come, and that hopefully to see you play the saxophone live on as it's coming the time.

Right now, We've had a great conversation and I look forward to slicing his pineapple up for the road.