Featuring Carri Twigg

carry Twig. She is now also the founder of one of the most incredible production and company's Culture House, and we talk about everything from politics to entertainment and everything in between. I'm gonna let you, guys get right into this episode, but I hope you love it as much as I do. Harry, thank you so much for taking the time to come on my podcast. I look up to so much, and not just everything you've accomplished and created, but also the types of stories you're telling and the impact.

It's just so amazing. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited. There's so many things I want to get into. I want to start with how you got into polity. Because I grew up in New York, my mom always listened to the news. So it was just kind of in my brain. Was it just something that you came about or was ingrained in your family? It wasn't ingrained in my family. I have a very My dad is steadfastly refused to become a citizen. Um he

was born and raised in Barbados. And this whole notion that when you become a citizen in the US, you have to say that you forsake any other allegiance to any other countries, Like I can't do that, um, so's he's not an American citizen. He does follow politics, he's aware of it. But I didn't grow up in a political family. And then my mother's side of the family is like kind of very waspy, and we don't talk about money or you know, politics. And so you landed

yourself in a very interesting place. I did. But it's interesting because my parents are political, even if they're not like politically active. And so my mom is a social worker. My dad is a black immigrant. My mom was a social worker too. I don't think I knew that it's so helpful when you have anxiety attacks, really helpful. I mean, my mom such a um. But what actually happened was

when I was about eleven or twelve. I asked my mom what government is, and she told me it's old white men sitting in a room deciding how free you are, which is still the most saying an accurate definition I've ever heard. And I remember we were just driving down the street in the car, just so casually. Yeah, and she was like yeah, she just rattled this off, and like,

what are you saying. It's like life path changed now in that moment, changed the trajectory of my life, because at that point I would probably would have been in like fifth, sixth grade, and everything you had been taught up to that point was like, this is the freest country in the world. It is the most equal country.

I have a dream, right, like all these things. And that just really brought home that the kind of contradiction that I think so many people understand about America as they age or as they go into the adult world, they're like, oh, we're kind of full of it. Um. But I kind of got introduced to that notion really early, and and I decided I was going to be one of those people in that room because no one, no one's making decisions without me, um. And and that's what

I did. I feel like politics and being politics, it's a whole other universe. And then you know, you go into the White House, your special assistant for Obama, and you want to just want to make sure I get this right director of Public Engagement for under Biden. That's a lot of work and I'm so curious, what is

what was like a day in your life? Then you know, it was really fascinating because the White House is this incredibly particular place, um and kind of peculiar place in that it's this tiny campus, Like the White House is actually very small, and you walk up and you see the you know, you get off the bus or whatever. I sometimes I drove. Sometimes I to the bus and

you see the iconic building and you walk up. There's people protesting outside, or there's there's always action news, you know, news cameras and correspond there's something happening around the White House. And then you walk in and you have this hallowed experience.

You go through the gates and then you're still just at your job and you're just sort of like if Debbie says, well I'm going to me today, like I'm just I'm going to flip my desk, you know, but you you still have the like petty annoyances and daily job and the White House so many of the you know, two thousand people that work there are political appointees that come in and serve at the pleasure of the President.

And we are all people who want to change society, but also who were type A who love to be the smartest person in the room, who are very mission driven, who like think they're the best in the brightest. How does that work when so many people are also brilliant in one room, Like how do you get things done?

It's a great question. It's a it's a question worth asking, you know, and I think it's you know, it can be both the greatest thing in the world and it can also be, you know, like many like many things are best qualities are often sometimes our worst qualities. So um so that existed, but you know, it was an extraordinary privilege, and I think for me every time other I got to bring people into the White House and

see it through their eyes. It was this incredibly kind of transcendent and magical moment where people who just couldn't believe the White House would ever be that way, could ever be filled with you know, young vibrant, just kids trying to figure it out on their best, all of these things, and there were people were just so proud of us, you know, and I think we were all kind of tired and slowly crawling to an early grave. But because you're it's just it's rigorous, right, You're just working.

How many hours do you work a day? Twelve to fourteen, six seven days a week for years, and even when you are not physically there, it's just alive in your consciousness. How do you compartmentalize that? I'm sure you don't, you know, like if I saw a BlackBerry today with like the blinking red light, my I might start twitching just like response, Well, you know what, it's so good that BlackBerry doesn't exist anymore. You know, they discontinued, so you don't have to worry

about that ever again. Yeah, but um, yeah it was. I mean it was extraordinary. But also it's also a job, Yeah it is. You know, what was the difference in the managerial styles between Obama and Biden? Was there a difference in how they delegated work or how they communicated with you? This is fascinating. You know, no one's ever asked me this question. Before I feel like it's a go to know people. I mean, people ask me about their personalities, but I want to know about how they're

supposed to run the country. I want to know how they run in office. I will say this is so, this is one of those things. I still have a little bit of Stockholm syndrome from the White House of like can I talk about it outside of it? But

like no one cares what you know. But I understand that when it's so involved in it's so much of your life, for so, how do you compartmentalize to kind of separated and you get so fiercely loyal to them that you just don't want to say anything that might be taken the wrong way or come off other people too. And I think we need to realize that exactly. So, my my, I would say that President Obama was far more of a true executive personality wise, whereas President Biden.

Don't forget President Biden searched for like forty years in the Senate. Like it's such a legist, he's so such a decision by committee. He's such a legislator. He wants

everyone's involvement. When he's a collaborator, he is um and he is much more kind of willing and interested in kind of thirty people's opinion and synthesizing from that place and trying to build consensus and find something that works for as many people as possible, whereas President Obama was absolutely in the interested in the opinions of experts and science and his advisors and looking at a problem from

as many potential angles as he could. But I think he was much more comfortable going alone when he when he felt that was the right thing to do. And again, these are like me projecting into your experience. Yeah, I think I I have a hard time imagining there would be many people who would disagree with me on that.

I feel like it's a very fair assessment just from an outside perspective, because there was a lot of decisions that Obama had to make that we're so so carried so much weight, and if you have thirty people's opinions and that, how do you make the decision? That's something

that I don't know how you would have to do. Yeah, Yeah, but you know, I think we all have our own unique brain chemistry, and there's other there are we all have our own unique path to getting to a point where we're poised and ready to make a decision, and for some people having a lot of opinions ACT really makes it more difficult. And for some people having more, the more opinions they hear, the more they've got checked their own position. So I don't know. I think it's

six and a half dozen. I don't think one way

is inherently better than the other. I think what's important is that we, as individuals, whether you're the president or not, understand your own decision making process and understand what works best for you and then apply that to as many situations as you can and how you learn best because everyone learns so differently, and I feel like that goes into the whole thing, a whole other topic with the education system, where we're taught one way, when it's we

all learned so many different ways exactly like standardized tests come up. Yeah, no, I mean, we're just we're doing so many things wrong. It's amazing. I know, it's one of those things. I don't know if you know this, but like my life passion is to want to fix the education system because I've grown up with learning disabilities my entire life, and I am so grateful to having been able to go to a special at school and have tutors when that's just not the case for so

many people. And it's just a conversation that's unfortunately not being had when it affects so one in five kids, and that's just people that are diagnosed with learning differences. I mean, that's amazing, and it is one of my my poor friends. UM have to hear me rant about kind of a lot, and unfortunately repetitively, but all the time, I'm just something happens that I am just incensed about

what I learned in school. Like I can write cursive and I can read analog clocks, but I was thirty before I could appropriately identify my feelings, let alone communicate them. And I'm just like, what did you teach me? No? Like I want to I want to know like how to balance a check, how to do like basic Like yeah,

there's just just plot missing. Why did no one teach me like how to make friends or like how to be a good friend or how do you actually have a relations like so many things about like being a human being literally that are really deeply necessary. Um, but no, it's sorry, I know how to do you know? I know what the capital of the state. I've never been

to this, so that's cool. It's something that I think just seeing how much we've how far we've come in how far we haven't come in our country in the past seven years, and kind of taking a moment to reflect was being in the White House? Did that make you believe more in democracy? Or did it make you doubt it more? Because I feel like we've been through a lot in the past couple of years and that's put in put into question And I want to get your thoughts on that. You ask a really good questions. Um,

that's that's fascinating. I think that it made Wow, this is a great question. I think that it, Um, it made me recognize democracy as being the miracle that it actually is. It's literally just people sitting in a room trying their best, and it is a miracle to made it this far. Yeah. Um, it is hard. It is a human enterprise and human beings are gonna human one. I don't know human beings. Humans are gonna human and it is amazing we have endured as long as we

actually have. And so I think what it made me, uh, was really compassionate for how hard it is to try and do the right thing and come up with a solution. No problem that gets to the White House is easily solvable, if solvable at all, right, otherwise it would have been solved way before it makes it to Washington. And the sheer kind of scale of the world and how complex that it is, and not even just this country. I mean, this is the third most populous country in the world.

We have one of the most diverse populations you can possibly imagine. A regional differences are class differences. I mean, it's just governing. America is that kind of ungovernable and the fact that it's been governed so consistently for the duration of its um of its history is an extraordinary thing. Do you have hope for the future of our country? I sort of have to have hope otherwise I can't get out of bed. That's so fair, you know, Um

I don't. I am. I'm a big believer that America is going to feel and be very different and should be. It actually desperately needs to change. This country does not work in really fundamental ways. It's just broken. Yeah, I

mean the economy does not. It just doesn't work. Um, So our education system, all of these major markers that affects so much of our future too, truly, and that determine the health of a society are not working at nearly the like there's a massive gap in our like we're one thing that America really is probably the best in the world at is perpetuating delusions. So and the Internet it's just so great for that, you know, it

really helps. And we just love to be delusional about how good we are at things, Like we're just really not doing very well on so many key factors. And it's like where the aunt that says they're fine and they're doing great, when you know they're just not doing great, you know, and you're just like, but you're crying, but like im but I'm looking at you know, you're saying

you're okay. Um. You know, like when you compare experiences around education and the cost of education, when you when you and the outcomes of that education, when you experience like what it is to raise a family, what it means to have a job, what it means to have benefits, what it means to have a civic environment that is responsive and adaptable to the changing needs of a population. When you look at the way that we are responding

to demographic change. Um, America doesn't like change. Well, the human beings don't know human change. That's so fair myself, I mean, despite the fact that we are all the most inconsistent animals ever. Like I was a different person yesterday and it's like you catch me, and the breeze is coming from a different direction, and the moon is like you know what I mean, like who is she today? Um? And yet if anyone else changed, and God help us, so you know, so a long way of saying, I

think I have to have hope. But I mean I try and be as clear eyed as I possibly can. And I think this this notion of America as the city on the hill, as the kind of best freest country in the world is um is a forest. It could still be made true, but we would have to make some pretty substantive and radical and quick decisions. We would. And I've been feeling great helpless the past couple of years, like many, and I think something that it's I've been asking myself is what can I do? What can I

do from home? Because there's so many things to do, it could be overwhelming to start, so for someone in college or in high school that wants to start getting involved and educating themselves and being an activist. Do you have any advice on how does how to just take two steps forward and get started on that process? I mean, first and foremost, like, you can't fix something externally if it's not fixed internally, right, So when you're that age,

focus on just being who you want to be. The freer you are, the freer the person next to you is. And so if you can find a way to do that without doing it at the expense of someone else, If you can just be a person who is community oriented, who is thoughtful and engaged in the world around you, then that's a phenomenal place to start. I think. Also I talk, I often compare politics for most people um to Nascar for me, which is NASCAR is like the

second biggest sport in the countree. I think it's like a multibillion dollar enterprise. Thousands and thousands of people go to these rallies or the races. You know, they're on billboards or magazines, on TV's in the newspaper. It's everywhere, and I can't tell you anything about it. Like I get the vague idea like cars driver from what I understand five hundred times, which how is no one getting dizzy? I don't understand what's going on? But like, can't name

you a car, can't name you a driver. I know that, like Indianapolis, like right, And so it's like despite it being completely surrounded by and I grew up in Ohio, so like I grew up in some NASCAR like world, you know, and still managed to avoid having any idea what it is. And so I think that's how most people are about politics. Right. You're surrounded by it, and yet we're able to kind of siphon it out of our worldview. And this is all my my aversion to

nascars pre algorithms. So I can't even blame that, Like, I don't know what I was, just ignoring it, right, And you know, people are often unaware of the fact that there's five hundred thousand elected officials in this country. I did not know that they're everywhere. Right, really are are governing the down to the block where you live. Right, It's not just congress people, it's not just people on the federal level. It's not just um your state legislators

and senators. It's it's your county commissioners and yours and your d A and your sheriff and and so I think the more you get involved in where and understand where you actually are and what your place, even if it's temporary, right, who look up? Who your representatives are? What? How many hungry kids are there in your neighborhood? Because I bet there's some right like what is the we've googled? We can if we can google it, we can do it. Like what are the rent laws? And your you know,

how are your schools if you're in high school? How is your school funded? Is your school funded by property taxes? Like? Okay, what disparity is that creating between your suburb and the kids who grew up just happened to be born down the street? Um? Is that fair? Is that okay with you? If not, what does that mean? Right? And I think figuring out who who you are and figuring out where you are is the important first step. And you know you're doing your podcast, I'm not telling stories. I I

used to work in politics and government. There's like activism is multifaceted endeavor and people and it is best when people show up as their authentic selves. And I know that that's such an overused term. But but it's it's true, and like do whatever works, bake cupcakes. You know, I don't love a crowd. She's she's not an extrovert. Okay, so I don't really go to protests Like that's not part of my activism journey. That's not for me. That

find that very stressful. I sleep for two days afterwards, and I'm like, good God, do that again. Um that said, I will call and harass any elected official. Not harass, but there's yeah, I'll raise money. I will volunteer on campaigns. I've volunteered almost sorts of campaigns. I vote religiously. Um, I will you know, harangue my friends and my family members to all of them. Like. So there's all sorts of ways to be involved and to be part of

the struggle. And it's just about finding what works for you and what is sustainable for you. We have to take one quick break, but when we come back, I want to talk about your pivot from politics to entertainment, the impact you hope to make through storytelling, working with Oprah, and so much more. We'll be right back and we're back. I love what you said about we have to be your best self. You have to find yourself first. When you were finding yourself, what was what was that process? Like,

how did you go about that? Do you have any advice? Because I'm on that journey now, and boy, it's a journey. I you know, I'm still finding myself. I feel like I'm gona have been several different people over the course of my life, and I think there's always been a thread of me that's been consistent in the same. But it's you know, I talked to friends of mine from twenty years ago and we tell stories. I'm just like, oh, man, I forgot I like that, I forgot I was that

way or whatever. Um, which I think is a good thing. We should all be trying on different personalities and different trying different I got my nose piers. Look at that go for you know. I had my nose piers too, you know. And I think it's all it's about being open um to the possibility of change and to the fact that you don't have to ever be the same person. It is okay to be a different person. It is okay to see someone or meet someone and say, oh

I like that about you. I'm going to incorporate that into my personality. We get into this idea that our personalities are inherent and that they're fixed, and they're not. They are dress and they are just a response to some nonsense that happened when we were kids. Like my older sisters a visual artist. She's incredibly talented and has always been so. Not only is she just artistically gifted, but she had plus five years on me motor skill wise.

And I realized that I was competing with her for like my little drawings and stuff in like second and third grade, and she was always so much better, and so I made me feel inadequate as a little kid. And so I was like, oh, I'm not artistic, I'm not creative. I'm not doing that. That's my sister's thing. I'm going to go do something completely different because I don't want to be compared to my sister and I

don't want to compete with her. I convinced myself at like seven that I wasn't a creative like who And then I'm still living that life when I'm twenty eight. Right, I'm still living that life and thinking of not thinking of myself as a creative person because of seven year old moment when I comply tie her shoes because someone who can't tie her shoes, it's still running my life. That's that's what. That's ridiculous, um, And yet we all

do that. It's so new ways. And it took me actually describing myself as not being a creative person in front of my sister, and my sister calling me out and be like, what are you talking about? Why don't you think you're creative? But like my seven year old self said it, what are you talking about? Just total nonsense? So you know, I then got to take on this other personality and this explore this other side of myself,

and I think that that evolution is really important. And then I think one thing that we don't say enough, and I certainly feel like I wasn't told enough, is that pain has a lot of information in it, and no generation of human beings ever has found a way to live a pain free life, and no generation ever will and if they do, it's like the end, right, because there's nothing then to evolve, And then you don't appreciate the good if you don't have exactly, And pain

is terrible and it sucks and none of us should wallow in it. But if you can just sit with it and try not to avoid it and try to sit, you know, and try and sit with it for as long as you need to at least take the time to ask the question, like what information is here? Anger has a lot of information in it, And I know, for me, I didn't let myself be angry for years and years and years because it was not what I was conditioned to do right, and I had really bad

temper when I was a kid. My parents were always trying to moderate it because they're just explode and so but the my way of doing that, instead of learning how to feel and process my emotions, was to suppress them. But anger has a lot of information. That's where you

find out what your boundaries are. And so, you know, obviously avoid harming yourself or harming anyone else, or making impulsive, rash decisions, but also try and sit in your feelings enough to understand what information is there and why your body is making you feel these things, so that you can learn how to again be who you are or figure out how you want to exist in the world at that particular time, and ask yourself those questions ongoing, Like, you know, I have this idea that I'm going to

start a new career every ten years. That I could see you doing that, that manifested girl. Um. And I think part of that is because I'm someone who needs external changes in order to ask myself internally. If I'm like, we'll check up, how are we doing? And the more I change my external circumstances, the more primed I am to explore those questions internally. And that's the process that

works for me. But I think it really starts with being open to the idea that you're a lot more malleable than you think, and your personality is a lot more of a choice than than we think. That's so true. I've been living my life in three months chunks over the past because I've noticed how much I change in

three months, my interest change. I feel like I've evolved more and grow and like, if that can happen in three months, we're just gonna plan in three months, because if we try a year, we're gonna be so different from then. And it's worked out so well. I love this. I know we're coming up our and three months, so we get to refresh it again. We get to figure out our new intentions, priorities, So I love it. That's great. Something that I'm very, very very excited to chat with

you about. Is this pivot in your career that you've had something I'm learning in school. They're kind of like, Okay, we're going to teach you this. This is what you have to do the rest of your life and then get good at and that's it. But frankly, there are so many things and I feel like I can I feel sometimes trapped at school because I feel like, Okay, this is the one thing I have to do, but no life can change. And so concuruise and you did that.

You went from politics to storytelling and created this incredible production company that I have been very fortunate to intern for. And I love everything you guys are creating because it it feels like it's bigger than ourselves. And so I was wondering what that transition was like and what made you switch to this field. Well, first of all, thank you, and it's been such a pleasure to have you at

Culture House. So much fun. Yeah, um, if you can't tell already, it's like, I'm very invested in this idea that we can all change and we all should change. That's and that's really good for us. I sort of you know, I've wanted to work at the White House since I was thirteen or fourteen, and then I get there. I'm on my way out of the White House at thirty. Yea, what do you do when your last two bosses are the president? You know what I mean? Where do you

go from there? It's true, It's like it's like my former boss like, my former bosses are the former president United current president? Like, what do you do from here? No? Just I'm ruined, Like I can't work. Can you imagine anyone telling me what to do? Somebody married? It wasn't going to go well anywhere, and that's why you start your own company. It wasn't gonna go well anyway. Um My, one of my former bosses from the White House told me I'm the worst employee he's ever had because I

kept referring to us as being colleagues. He's like, we are not colleagues. Do you work for me? But like we worked together though, but do I It's not reversed a little bit. Such a nightmare. Um but yeah, So I left the White House at thirty and realized I had no other hobbies or interests. What was that like? Oh? Scary awful it was. I had a total meltdown. I had a total breakdown at thirty. It was spectacular, truly one of the best things that ever happened to me.

But like, oh God, wouldn't wish it, wouldn't wish, wish it on an enemy, and yet would work wish it on everyone. So I think the short answer is, I don't know that's actually gonna be that short. But I think two things were really happening for me at that moment in time. One was that I was exploring this

idea of myself as a creative person. Two was that it was really clear that what we so much of what we were trying to accomplish in the Obama years were culturally ahead where the country was, and in order to legislate or build policy around something, the idea for it really has to exist first in the kind of

collective imagination of the country. Right, we saw what happened with healthcare, whereas we didn't really have a framework, the general population did not have a framework for what universal health care could be, and so it was really easily to then manipulate that into something that was like about death panels and like all the other nonsense and Sarah Palin and her cohort were kind of propagating at that time,

so useful, helpful to the American people, could God. But now the people have had it for four years or ten years, or however long it's been. I can't not time isn't a thing anymore. I don't even worry about it. But now the people have had it, they are like religiously defending it. Right. And so whereas or thirty five percent of the country supported it prior to its enactment, now six does. And we see the same thing when

it comes to things like marriage or quality. Right, But marriage equality doesn't happen without will and grace, without Ellen's de generous, without Rosie o'donald, without the sort of so many cultural touchstones that helped introduce people and beloved kind of figures into this world or into the popular consciousness

of the country. And so when I was leaving the White House, it was really clear that that dynamic was at play around a range of issues, whether it was sustainability and climate change, whether it was race relations, whether it was gender roles, gender norms, gender relations were still very much operating in a country that believes in a zero sum game. Right, that for black people to have rights and dignity has to be taken from white people.

For women to have equality, opportunity, agency, authority has to be taken from men. It's not like we can all just coexist, which is which is such an absurd way of thinking about it, Like as though freedom is a bicycle that you can just take. I lost, I lost the tire. I need one now, you know, Like these are concepts so in the same around wealth, Right, those

were all things that were really clear. We're being affected by the stories that we were telling in this country, Like the inevitable, uh, the inevitable end result of John Wayne, one man goes alone and he's doing it his way and we're gonna love him for it. Anyway, Like the inevitable result of that story that we have told over and over and over and over again is Donald Trump. Yeah, because he starts running for president, Everyone's like, oh, I

like that guy. But it's because we've been watching him on TV. Not only just him on TV, but that particular story he was telling feels familiar. Right, It's the Top Gun and I watched the hell out of Top Gun and like nearly wept a Maverick. I don't say I love that this is a perfect movie. I was obsessed with that, loved it, But it's the exact same thing, like one Man on a Mission, right, because like the

inevitable end result of those stories is total dysfunction. Um. And so we have to tell different stories if we want different political outcomes. And I think I was starting to realize that as I was leaving the White House.

And to me, it's not aid. Yeah, And and it's not a coincidence to me that so many people from the Obama era, including the Obama's have now gone into storytelling, because I think we're all sort of making that sort of understanding that the country needs a cultural scaffold in order to build meaningful kind of collective policy around um, some of these other ways of seeing the world. Yeah, So that's that's why I left. I was also really tired, how Okay, So I just have to know, like, once

your job ended, how like what was your record of sleep? Like? Was there like a total like you like a full to only four hours? Seriously? Has anyone have you read this book by Tessa mass Fe My Year of Rest and Relaxation. No, but I need to now well, it's super morbid, fantastic. She well she's a fantastic fiction writer, but she's just dark, dark and reverse. But anyway, so this girl basically just like medicates herself and stays in bed for a year. So that was me, but without

the drugs. I mentally did it years. I mean from for the first eight months, I was probably asleep as much as I was awake, Like I probably slept twelve up for yeah, for a solid half year. Um, and I didn't really work. I took um, which I encourage everyone to do, and no one really seems to take me up as much as they should um just to not work. And so I just didn't work for like eight months. What was that? That nice? It was amazing.

I went to like everything people invited me to, and it was one of those things was like, do not invite me to your grandma's house and sis, because I will show up. I'm looking at plane tickets right now. I love Grandma's I love sicily like let's roll. It's like my life motto right now. Funk it? Why not exactly? Yeah? Um, so I thought, yeah, I had to funk it? Why

not here? And but a sleepy one I was asleep for a very fort that's okay, yeah, And then moved up to New York, ended up meeting my business partners, who the women who then became my business partners, um, and we start a culture house, and now I'm in l A and you know, still doing my best. I want to talk about hairtails for a second, because I think the messaging of the show is so important, and I think the casting and the way it's filmed, the aesthetic of it is just so on point and just

so perfect. And I just have to know what was it like working with Oprah? It's wild and what was that like? You know, you've done, You've done the press, You've done Oprah. What's next? Basically the um I mean talk about people who are in their pocket, right, and no one can see my hand gesture, right, there's a handshure hand gesture that is illustrating what I'm saying. But

you know, and she'll say it. Ms. Winfrey will say, you know, she's living in her purpose, like she found her like she found the zone, the portal through which she makes all of her decisions and all of her actions are in integrity with her purpose. And that's why it all works. And it works so extraordinarily well, and you feel that you feel in the same way that we all pick up on all sorts of things about

each other. Yeah, there's a real magnetism to her, and there's a real sense of like, oh, she is in integrity, Like she does what she says, she says what she means. She is a consistent and confidently consistent human being, ing who even in sort of micro moments and micro movements, is hyper present, like she's showing up beauti fully to whatever is happening in that moment, which I think in

Tracy is the same way. I mean, Tracy is an extraordinarily embodied and present person when she is in front of you, she is in front of you and all of hers there, and she's not thinking about what she could be doing instead, or how does she look, or how does she think the other person thinks she looks. I mean, all we all have those things. But when she taps in, she becomes an extraordinarily powerful person. And not to say that she's not powerful all the time,

but it's really impressive. Like people who have figured out how to do that are extraordinary to be around. And I think it is the thing that defines their greatness, right, It's their ability to step into whatever it is, the energy or the life force or their own sort of potential, and it just radiates off them. I just started her book What I Know for Sure, so I'm excited to get into it because I am like halfway through her book, Uh,

what Happened to You with Dr Perry Um. So I feel like I'm just infusing my brain with Oprah right now. So I feel like I'm in a great place. So totally. I've read that. I've read What I Know for Sure.

It's extraordinary and it's like she talks about this concept a lot in her book, and you're sort of like describes very clearly what it is she's doing, and it's like, how girl, how can I just say the environment that you've created for this production company has been so refreshing I even though it's just been online, I have felt more inspired, more creative, and more like I want to make an impact than I have in school in the past year and a half. Oh, thank you so much.

I think it's so important that there's we're talking about how much our culture effects society, because it truly does. From your girl Up series, like you're truly highlighting the good, the bad, and the ugly, which is I think what we need help people feel us alone, Like that's if nothing else, just tell the truth straight up. Let's be real, you know, if you can give someone nothing else, give

them the truth, give them honesty. It's just it's so basic, and yet it is so undervalued and enterprised in our community and in the world and in our society. Um. And it's just that you cannot be free without the truth. Are you feeling creatively fulfilled right now? I am? I think I UM, I think that I am taking a very um what's the word broad interpretation of creative creativity? And I try and don't limit yourself, you know what I mean? I agree, um, And so I am trying

to live a creative life. And I don't mean that sort of in an art his stick practice sense, although I do have a writing practice, and I obviously make a film and TV. But it's also like I went on and walk on the beach this morning. I go surfing a lot, I go on hikes. I try. And I was walking down the street and saw I was watching the sunset last night, and like a man came by and gave me a big thumbs up. You know, I saw this wild looking man in the captain's hat.

That made me just chuckle. Like all these wonderful things that happen if you're open to them, not even just synchronicities, but just humans are hilarious. They're so funny, and so much good stuff is happening on your block right now. You know, whatever happened to the art of people watching? Honestly, it's just I will go on campus and I will just or sometimes if even if I'm at a party, I'll just sit just to watch what I'm like. It's

just so interesting seeing other humans interact together. Um or like I like to camp. I'm a big camper, and so see, I want to go camping. I've never been before ever, I've never from the city. You're such a city. I'm such a city. It's so unfortunate. So now I'm like, I need to go. I need to make up for everything. And I wasn't able to do a great spot. I mean, California is such extraordinary camping. So I went on a big road trip over the summer and did it by myself.

I had not I had not camped by myself before and so I camped by myself for a couple of weeks. A couple of weeks by myself. What was that like? It was awesome? It was so good. So I went all around the Southwest in California and Arizona, Utah, Nevada, and so inspired, I went to Paris by myself this summer. It was really like for me, the summer was really trying to see how much can we grow and how

much can we evolve? And so I've just been trying to do more things by myself, whether it's taking myself on dates or like doing anything like that. And so like like that's like going camping, Like that's like so impressive to me that you can do that. That's like a goal I want to hit one day. Well it took me thirty six years, Like you're there, but yeah, but I'm here. Um. And it was one of the most rewarding things I've ever done for myself. Um. And I'm a big believer in taking care of carry like

I'd pamper her as best. So how do what is self care? For you? Self care is entirely and fulsomely and enthusiastically rejecting the idea of being busy. I am not busy. I don't ever try to be busy. I have no aspirations to be busy. I want to move as slowly as humanly possible. I mean, like ambling just taken my sweet time. UM. I think it is knowing what at that moment in time. My five needs for happiness always are. I'm always kind of checking in on

that list. So I need to be in nature, I need to have community, I need to write, UM, I need to be of service, and UM, I need love. Right, and so if I meeting each of those things, and those also have a bright a broad term, but if I'm meeting those things on each given day, I'm going to have a spectacular day, right if I like, those are the things that I am prioritizing. UM. Self care is also for me about embracing mediocrity. Like there's there's really like three things I need to be good at.

Need to be a good family member, I need to be a good friend, and I need to keep a roof over my head. And outside of those three, and I need to be good to myself. So four things that I need to be really good at, I don't have to be good at anything else. Really, and so I take all the pressure off myself to be good at anything else. I love making good film and TV. I love being a good writer. I love being good surfer. I love being good at tennis. If I'm not good

at any of those things, it doesn't actually matter. When I'm on my deathbed. I'm not gonna be like man, you know that recreational game. I played doubles two thousand, you know two care Um I'll be I'll die happy if I was good to my sister and good to my nephews, and good to my parents, and good to my friends, and good to my partners, and good to you know, um, the world and my community. And that's enough for me. Um. And I lived the life that I really actually wanted to live. And you're doing it

for you, yeah, you know, um. And so so, embracing mediocrity is a way that I take care of mine. Like I'm so bad at tennis, it's amazing. Oh. I joined a tap class this semester. I don't dance. I don't dance. Um that. And here's the thing I thought, like, Okay, it's probably a beginner class. No, there's no beginner class. It's with dance majors who have tapped since they were two, and I'm like, okay, at least it's doing something uncomfortable. Yeah,

it pushes me out there. Um, and it's an experience totally. That's amazing. Are you doing any hobbies or wanting to pursue anything that you're like, oh, I want to into that. Yeah, so I tango dance. Tango Tango is amazing. Tango is so sexy, Like it's not salsice. You're not like moving all this, You're not moving around super fast. Maybe that should be my next dance I pick. It's like it's super old, like it's like there, it's like it's pretty

old too. Yeah, but it's it's rad. I don't mean even as a practice, I just mean like as a community, like really, yeah, that's so much fun, but it's really great. It just make you feel good about yourself to the youngest one there totally. Um. So like tango, tennis, I play tennis, one ye surfing. I'm a good gardener yeah, um,

like flowers, fruits and vegetables, all sorts of stuff. I think gardening is extraordinarily important for everyone, Like everyone should be required to grow something so calming, not even that it's just like, yes, it is so calming, and it is is a practice of delayed gratification. In a world in which you could have a new boyfriend every hour of the day, and a world in which you can order something online and reasonably expect that it be within hours,

like you should have to wait for things. Waiting for things is important for human brains, and it is a good thing. And so having like waiting for your flower to bloom, waiting for your flower to grow is a spectacular practice. That's how I kind of feel with oil painting because it takes so long to dry yet like okay, you know, I don't know what I'm it's going to be, but we're doing it for love, doing it exactly. You know. It's like we're constantly rushing, and it's we're missing a

lot of things when we rush. I think about how many sunsets and sunrises like there too, Like we miss a day that I'm just like I don't even see them. You're just there and they're so beautiful of a block from the water, and so sunset is always so spectacular, and it's like the days that I miss it, I better have a really good excuse if I was just in my house like looking like the self loathing on

Twitter exactly. It's just like a horrific, absolutely ridiculous. Um. I try and go and see it every day that I'm home at that hour. So what's next for you? What's next for Culture House? What's keeping you fulfilled? What's in the works that's making you excited about? You know? To your point around and it really means so much for to hear it means so much to me to hear that your experience at Culture House has been what

we built the company for. I mean, if it doesn't feel like making art with your friends, why are we doing it? Um, have been so much. Oh I love that. I love that. Yeah, you know. It's it's like, if I want to be stressed out and and make life or death decisions at work, I'd be a surgeon or I'd go back to the White House. I'm not. I'm making television and film and it should feel like it, right like we do do lay Hill on my podcast,

and he told me something that it's really helped. He goes at the end of the day, we're just playing pretend it can be a series, says it is. It can be as deep. At the end of the day, we're just playing pretend. I'm like, you know what, I know, that's so true totally, and losing sight of that is so WOWD. So when I see people like tie themselves and nods, I'm sort of just like, you should have to go work in an e er for a couple of days and then come back. I didn't appreciate where

you are. I was like, this is getting a little out of control. Um but and again, and then this really actually goes back to what I was saying about how people can start their journey into activism, like, if it doesn't feel good in the smallest possible circle, if working at culture House or working with culture House doesn't feel good, I don't care what the show is. I don't care. I don't care if the show is good.

It's about the environment that you create, exactly, and if it didn't feel good, to make it like the ends does not justify the means for me in basically anything like it would take a lot to convince me of of a situation where the ends to justify the means,

and it certainly won't. Just it's certainly un acceptable in making TV like there's just there's no um and so you know, I think we take a lot of care and we take a lot of pride and the fact that we've built the company on our terms and the way that we want, with the values that we have, and hopefully that shows up on screen. We also want to be really good at it. I mean, he wants to be like mediocre at their jobs. Like my name is going to be on it. No one watches me

play tennis. So it's just it's already so good that I'm like, that's not even like a doubt in my mind. I just know it's just going to be. And so I think for me, I'm just culture House is really exciting because we're just talking about cool stuff that all has a pulse, that all has a purpose, you know, and it's really interesting. One of the criteria for what projects we take on or what projects we decide to put forward, it's like, do I want to talk about

this for three years? Is this interesting enough to really want to talk about it for three years? And is the team going to be people I want to work with for two years or for three years and talk to almost every day for that long time. I think something I've really learned is how much development is like a baby and you really have to nurture it and really have to flush it out so much. I feel

like I've just gotten so much from it. I'm so glad to have worked for be a part of it any way, because I do think you guys are making some incredible stuff that can actually really affect the trajectory of the way we view our society. Thanks man, that's so nice. Of course, we have to take one more quick break, but when we come back, I'm going to talk about where you get your confidence from, both personally and professionally and much more. We'll be right back and

we're back what advice do for confidence? Because I would love to exude your confidence that I've decided, Um, so you know, we pick up personality traits. I just that's something I want to listen. Put it on like a sweater girl, and live your life. I mean, but it actually is a choice. I actually really remember I grew up and it was sort of was very much outside

of the booty norms of where I grew up. But I remember and like feeling very unattractive and feeling very ugly, and I remember when I was thirteen just like having one of those sort of divine inspiration moments where it's like, I'm actually not going to believe that about myself. I'm beautiful, and I'm that's what I'm going to believe. I don't know where that came from, but it just sort of had one of those moments, and I've tried. I've held on, like the death grip to that since I was a kid.

But I think a few things. I think confidence is not only external of worst, but it's internal. And I think the internal pieces is the most important because you are going to look different. You are. There's and everyone has their own perception of what beauty is. Everyone's hot, Like literally I could find something hot about anyone absolutely if you look long enough, if you're open enough, you

can absolutely I mean just smoke shows everywhere. Um and so so I think the more you appreciate other people's beauty, the more you'll appreciate your own. The more you take yourself out of any kind of competition with anyone, the more the happier you will be. UM. And then on the internal piece, I think for me it's also like the world is bullshit, Like no one has any idea what the funk is going on. I don't know what

the hell is going on. You don't know, like, no one knows what that trying, you know, And so why not you? Like, you're the one? Why not you? You're here, That's what my dad says. He goes, it could be any one, why not you? Exactly, You're you're the one doing it. I actually got into a little bit of

an argument with a friend. Um. He and I were walking around some art galleries and he couldn't really draw the distinction between something whether or not he liked something, whether or not a piece of art was his style, versus whether or not it should have been made. And I was like, Okay, I don't particularly aesthetically care for this painting, but you look at the technique, you look at how you made like the fact that they made it, you know, is extraordinary. And he's like, I mean I

could have made that. I was like, but you didn't. You didn't. That is the thing that actually makes the difference. You can have the best ideas in the world. If you don't do it, it doesn't matter. People have people. It's I'll talk no action exactly until you do it. And so the more you just do ship. That's the way you learned. The more you build confidence and the more you're like, I'm the dude, it's me, Why not me? Right?

Because you back your self. We all have to bet on ourselves at some point, and so I think we're really trained to bet on other people like oh, well she's so beautiful, or oh she's so tall, or oh she has this or that, but like, bet on yourself. You can't live anyone else's life. You can only live yours. And so what are you How are you going to invest in yourself? How are you going to do the thing?

Get over being embarrassed? Life is deeply embarrassing. It's just a humil if you're doing it right, it is a humiliating experience, you know, But that's what it's, you know, it's just part of the deal. Like, get over it, Just keep moving, keep trying. Got to embrace it. Be comfortable with the uncomfortable. That's what I've been really trying to embrace this cemeter. And I think that is a practice. And I think the more you practice that, the more

confident you get. And I think I am absolutely willing to be the best. I'm also absolutely willing to be the worst. I am willing to humiliate myself. I'm willing to start over. I'm willing to be everything in between. And I think that willingness is what you pick up on when you've when you sense confidence in me, I'll be okay, I'll figured out because even if you fall, you're going to get back up and exactly like, it'll be fine. It's just it's the ingraining part is what

I need to work on. Yeah, but I have a head start on you. I don't know how old. How old are oh girl, Yeah, I've got sixty. I've got like the last human being on you all teenager? Yeah, sixteen years on you. You know, is there are there any other future people you'd like to work with that you want to manifest out into existence? No, um, there are, certainly. I do my best not to project onto people I don't know, so my perception of what they are could

be wildly inaccurate. So I could be like, oh, I want to manifest working with this person or that person, and then that person is garb right, and they're terrible to work experience right, But they could be terrible to work with, or they could be um fine but not spectacular.

And then you're let down. So I think it's hard to and I think we do enough as a society of projecting onto people in UM that live and live in the public in a certain way, or that have public lives in a certain way, in a way that I think is actually kind of unhealthy, absolutely, yeah, deeply unhealthy. And so I try not to do that too much. The people who I'm supposed to be working with, I'll work with, you know, and we'll meet and it'll have

purpose or won't or whatever. But yeah, I try not to um, try not to look at people and be like, oh and invest in them in that way because I don't know, I don't actually know them. Hey, at least you can vowed for Oprah. At least you can. That's a big one. Yeah. Yeah, no, I've done pretty well. Like what is happening right now? Who let me in this room? This makes absolutely no sense? But let's do it. Let's do it, you know, why not? Why not? It's

so funny. My so, my older sister, the brilliant, genius creative artist. Um, she was the production designer for Hair Hair Tales, Oh my goodness, and it was her and she also is just like she's she's even five years older than me, so if you can imagine my confidence plus five years. So she we had this one particularly complicated and it was her first production design job, and she has one really complicated shoot, and she came up to me. It was like, listen, so we're at the

end of the road of my confidence. I have no idea what I'm doing. We're gonna need some help in here. We are at the end of the road of my confidence. Carrying meads to the finish line, She's like, Nope, not gonna make it this time. Um, We're gonna need a ringer, gonna need some help, gonna need an actual expert, you know what. The fact that she was able to vocalize it be like it was exactly before. It's too late, that that matters. Timing is everything. It all worked out exactly,

Sody cracked me up. I was just like, dude, the twigs are out here just making ship up left and right. It's amazing. I love how once you cursed, I then just went so aggressively and I didn't know if I could just um, but yeah, so you know, I don't know why I told that story other than that it's funny and my sister is amazing. I think it's super interesting. I'm also super interested in production design as of recent because it's it just builds the aesthetic. Like I learned

a bunch of other ship in college. Like I didn't learn any of this stuff. I didn't go to film school. I didn't like take I don't think I took a single. What was your major? Um, I triple majored. I'm not coming to nerd in political science, history and communications, any minor. No, I don't think you need a minor. Yeah. I was gonna minor and communications, but then I ended up taking extra classes and so it became a major. Hey it works, you know, Um. But I actually have a very bad

self discipline really Yeah. So when I went to college, I was like, oh, I only have to be here for like four hours a week. Um. And so I had terrible grades my first quarters. I was on o s U used to be on quarters. Absolutely terrible grades.

And so then I went and talked to the guyn's counselor or whatever they're called in college and convinced them to let me like triple my course load so that I would be in class from nine am until three pm every Monday through Thursday, because I was like, if you let me step off campus, I am not coming back. The fact that you know that yourself. So she's just not here anymore to be seen stumbling home at two o'clock in the morning like babies out. So I actually needed,

like I need the structure, overwhelmed. I needed to be structured. Um to this day, I like still date people who are very uptight and structured and discipline because I just need it, Like I need structure because leave me alone, I'm just like what, No, I feel like I'll need a day an extrovert because I can't be pulling someone

else out where ourselves out of it right right totally? Um. So yeah, that's like the one through line of all the people I've ever dated has been that they're like actual, you know, hardcore, like you get up at eight and then we do this because otherwise or is it more of like an intellectual thing? I mean my type would be I mean smart and funny, um, generous and kind.

I cannot tolerate people who are not um. I have absolutely zero tolerance for people who are unkind um and even just courteous, right like people who don't say thank you, or open doors for people to hind them, or take up two seats on the bus, and she's like, what's the matter with you? You share? You share this world with human transportation? Guy? Yeah, um uh. And then I really am drawn to people who were very disciplined and

very structured, and um that helps me. I love I love a routine, but I've never successfully kept one independently. I love the idea of one. I love the idea of one, but like who knows when she's waking up? Who knows what order I'm going to do anything? And like generally I get everything done, but like I brush my teeth at the three pm yesterday, you know what, at least you're getting it done exactly. And that's as

long as you're doing is. And then I went to brush my teeth this morning and my toothbrush was downstairs at the kitchen stink, like just like childish. Like I'll walk into my house sometimes and just be like, who did this? And I live alone? So I did it. Well. Thank you so much for taking the time. This was just made my day and I feel very fired. Thank you so much. You asked much spectacular questions and I love your podcast I'm really honored that you even asked

me to recording. I'm honored here on this season, season four. If it's got it, you've got to deliver. So good for you. I appreciate you so much, so happy for you.