Let Him Go Barefoot is a podcast that dives into all things parenting and education through the lens of mindful awareness. Conversations aim to bring forward patterns, beliefs, and attitudes that shape our expectations and ideas about what it means to raise healthy children. With the blend of science, ancient wisdom, and intuition, we will explore ways to support, nurture, and connect with our growing children while also nurturing and expanding ourselves.
I am grateful you are here. Today I'm speaking to the creators of Barefoot University, Madeline and Amber. two homeschool moms. And I think it's safe to say nature lovers. Yeah. Yeah. They're currently in a, did you say national park or forest? Yes. We are in a national park together.
Together right now, camping with their families. Yeah. Um, well, welcome to the let them go barefoot podcast. And I appreciate you taking the time to do this. It sounds like you've had a very, very busy week. It has been busy, but super fun. I just came off of a camping trip. Well, it's been a couple of weeks now and I only did two days and I was pretty tired afterwards. So I can imagine what you're going to feel like after a week. Oh, lots of coffee.
So if we can, I actually want to start with the obvious, which is that you have used barefoot in your name and I have used barefoot in my name and. I would just like to know what does being barefoot mean to you? What does it signify for each of you? And why did you choose that word specifically? Well, when we first started barefoot, we actually didn't really.
know that it was going to be what it is. And so we had a different name. It was just the city that I lived in at the time. And we just called it, you know, the fourth school of that city. And so... As we started meeting the kids every week when we would do our activity, they would just take their shoes off and climb trees and get in the creek and play and just run around barefoot. So we knew somehow we had to incorporate the name barefoot.
And so when we became a nonprofit and started expanding to other states and stuff, we changed our name after that first year to Berfit University. But we also both Madeline and I know. just all the science behind being barefoot and putting time outside and trying to just promote the holistic health of not only our kids, but all of our members' kids. And so we encourage that type of lifestyle, that type of play.
Because we know it's good for kids and families. Right. Well, and I chose the word barefoot. For the exact same reason. It was, I was on the playground with my kids or my son, and I noticed how many people were, were upset with their kids taking their shoes off. And, and I kept thinking to myself, what's the big deal? Just let them go barefoot, you know, in my head.
And so that's how it came in. And then it was also symbolic too, right? Like kids are saying, I I'm stripping off this external control. Like I know what my body needs. I need to feel the earth under my feet. I need to grab ahold of that slide. I need to. grip with my toes. And I found that to be that sort of entrance for me into this idea that kids actually know a lot more. They're so intuitive. And if we just kind of can follow their lead sometimes with what they're interested in.
that they can show us a lot more. Yes. So let's just dig into the origin story then of Barefoot University. So you mentioned that you started it in your city. So Amber, if you don't mind, can you just kind of get us started and then Madeline can. come in and explain sort of her role and how you both got involved with this? Yeah, sure. So I... had visited a few different forest schools and all of them were just missing something, different things from each of them. And I thought.
man, this isn't exactly what I'm looking for. Maybe I should just start my own. So I posted in a local homeschooling group and I asked if anybody wanted to start a forest school with me. Madeline and I had not met at the time, but we were Facebook friends and she responded that she did. And a couple other parents also responded. And so I sent her a message and I said, I'm serious.
And she said, I am too. I was like, all right. So the very first time we met was when we got together to plan our first year. Gosh, it's just been chaos. Yeah, it has. But good chaos. Chaos in a good way. And what was your first year? Did you say that already or missed it? We started in 2019. Okay, 2019. And our first year was kind of loose. Now we have a little bit of a more structured program. Our first year was really kind of loose and open-ended and we...
We started and we wanted to do it regardless. And we were like, if it's just the two of us in the woods with our kids, then that will be wonderful and we'll love that. But we invited more people and it started with two families. families and then five families and then 10 families and then 20 families and then it just kept growing and growing and growing and once you get that big you kind of lose the sense of community that we started at four to begin with.
So we were like, this isn't going to work. We're going to have to split the group because when you are 70 families deep, that is like 140 children. And that's a school. So we're like, this isn't working. We need to split the group. And so we split the group and then it has just kind of split, split, split and splintered from there.
Wow. So when you split the group, did you make kind of a decision about it based on age? Or was it more like, we'll start, we'll take the original group, we're going to stay together, and then let's get somebody to lead another group and things like that? Or was it? Two of the founding, like two of the founding members that were in our original group offered and said, hey, we'll take off the group and we'll meet at this other park on the same day. I think they were meeting back then.
actually one of the leaders still a leader for barefoot so that's super cool um but yeah so they started meeting and we kind of treated it as one group we were like we'll do all the same stuff And we will every week, you know, we'll be doing the same activities. We're just going to be with our each of our own groups. Well, we'll do field. We did field trips together that first year. So it was just really like the group just split.
into different areas it wasn't like an actual split um and then we kind of got messages from people in other areas of dfw that said we want to join and we told them well We told them no because we wanted that sense of community. We didn't want our groups to be any bigger because we wanted those connections. And you can't make connections when you are, you know, with 40 families or whatever. So we and we hated that we were having to tell people no. So instead of no.
we said, we'll help you start one. And so we started some other groups in Dallas, Fort Worth, where I was at the time. Then we started more groups and more groups. And then I moved to Tennessee. So that same year that I moved to Tennessee, we opened groups in Virginia and Tennessee. And then the following year, we added some more states and North Carolina and Florida.
Florida and now we are at 11 states. So that is super exciting. That is so great. So if you don't mind just to go back for a minute and say you started, both of you started in Dallas, Fort Worth. Yeah. Okay. And then Amber, you moved to Tennessee? I did. We're right outside of the Smokies. And I actually didn't want to leave Texas because I've never lived anywhere else. But my husband was like, it'll be amazing. You can do like forest school in an actual forest.
So here we are. Okay. And then Madeline, you stayed in Dallas? Yeah, I'm outside of Fort Worth. Okay. And so the two of you are communicating, you know, virtually now, but still have your... You come together. So what you're doing now, you've come together as a week long camping trip for your individual families or for your individual groups.
No, it's just Madeline and I and our children. Okay. Yeah, we try to do a fun road trip every summer. We get together a few times a year to work together in person, but we do a lot. on the phone and on video calls and things like that.
I hate driving and Madeline likes driving. So our road trips are really productive because she just drives the whole way and I type. That's great. And we work, like there's so much to be said about actually working together in person. Like we work great over the phone, but man, when we're together. it's like magic happens like the ideas start flowing and we just keep going and when you get in that groove on the road especially you just like it's wonderful it's been really wonderful
Sounds that way. That's so good. And it helps, I think, when you're speaking about it to let other people hear what the possibilities are. which is actually part of your, I think your motto too, right? Like what are the unlocking the possibilities or endless possibilities? Endless possibilities. Yeah.
outdoor classrooms barefoot kids and endless possibilities because we are we madeline said you know we are a little bit more structured but um but then we were in the beginning um but we're still child led So it's not, I tell parents all the time, if you're looking for a group that's going to make your kids sit down in a circle and read a book or, you know, everybody has to participate in this activity this way, that isn't, that isn't barefoot. So we're child led.
As far as structure, we have like a theme every year after the elements. And so next year we are going to be doing Rhythm Water. So everything we do will be focused on learning about different attributes of water. how it pertains to nature and just our natural environment, aquatic life, hydrology, all of those things. And so...
All of our groups learn the same thing every week. So everybody, you know, that is a barefoot group will meet on week one. And our very first week next year is water safety. So all of our groups are going to be learning water safety that first week. And then, you know, it goes through.
all of our cycles for 30 seconds. And so we're all learning the same thing each week, but it looks different depending on where you're at. We have groups that meet in the beach and then the forest and the swamps. And so it looks really different. And then leaders also add their own spin. to each activity, which is so fun and amazing to watch. We love seeing that, but it's a lot of fun. But we encourage a lot of play and we encourage families and children to let the...
let the kids kind of leave where their learning is going within that topic. Okay. Well, and I noticed too, on your Instagram page, which for those listening, it's barefoot underscore university, you highlight. different groups. And so do you all have a specific time that you meet, like maybe a couple of times a year, even if it's online or are you available to the leaders if they need something or they feel stuck or just want a little bit more support?
Oh, yeah, we are available for the leaders. We have a leadership Facebook group as well, where all of our leaders can come together and share ideas, which is really interesting to see. And it's really cool to see how different. ideas get shared, how different people do things differently, and how different environments change our activities. When somebody signs up to become a barefoot leader, wants to become a barefoot leader, they have to fill out an application.
And once they fill out an application, they are contacted by us. They have to go through an interview process, a reference check, a background check. They are, you know, represent. a representative of barefoot and so we want to make sure that we have the very best people out there representing us and people that really believe and understand you know the root of barefoot so
Once they pass all of that and they pass the interview process, during the summer and part of becoming a barefoot leader is training. We put them through a general training. program where they learn basic how to be a barefooter, how to lead a barefoot group. And then along with that, they also have a rhythm specific training that they do. So this year is Rhythm Water.
So they have a specific rhythm water training that they'll go through that has water safety and other stuff that pertains to this rhythm. That's great. Well, it seems that. you've really thought this out and, and I love the structure that you give to families and, or people who want to participate. So how does that then translate to the family? So you've got your leaders, do they get some sort of like a marketing?
kit that they can use or are they pretty much just reach out to the people in their community kind of the way you all did when you first started? We do offer marketing materials to them. Everybody registers on our website. So all the families are fielded through Barefoot and we send the leaders. activity instructions and supplies for every single week at barefoot which is 36 weeks and we give them you know additional support so they can do things like extra
fund activities with their families, field trip ideas, community service ideas, barefoot. One of the things that sets us apart from other forest schools is that we put a lot of energy and focus into community service projects and we encourage all of our groups to serve their local communities with each other or the parks that they're meeting at um and so we
Just really want to support them in that. So we send them community service ideas as well so that they can do things like outside of their weekly meetup to connect with each other in their community. That's nice. That is a great element. So the age group then, are you primarily focused on a certain age group or do you go through middle school? No, we are, we are K through 12. Okay. So we are kindergarten all the way through 12th grade.
But we don't separate by age. No, it is one room schoolhouse style. We see just tremendous benefits from... Not only the older children and younger children being together and the older kids helping the younger kids, but vice versa. The younger kids helping the older kids to see things through a different light, through a younger light.
And so we think that it's really important that everybody do the activities together. We don't separate out by age at all. Okay. That's, that's good to know. And I agree with you. I've seen that. over and over again in all of our homeschool co-ops and groups we've participated in over the years.
how the younger kids can almost encourage the older kids to be more gentle and more calm and to slow down and explain themselves a little better. And then also how the older kids can help the younger see what's possible. kind of strive to do a little bit more or to participate in a different way so yeah that's beautiful um so when it comes to the decision to put together an organization you
I know I saw that you offer it as a not, or that you are a nonprofit. How does that change things for you? Like, what does that, what does that look like as far as the structure? Does that impact, how does that impact your structure? I should say. It's been a really good thing for us. We decided to become a nonprofit because we know that a lot of families that homeschool are one income families. A lot of times one of the parents.
are staying home so they're able to homeschool. And so people make sacrifices to be able to do that. So we wanted to make sure that we were able to be low cost. And then, you know, being a nonprofit opens up the doors for us to receive additional funding and grants and things like that.
for educational programming. And that's really helped to offset a lot of our costs. Our average family spends a little over $3 a week for it. Like if they have two kids, it's a little over $3 a week for their entire family to be a part of Barefoot. Um, it's most of our families with two, all of our families with two kids pay like $125 a year for the entire 36 weeks. Yeah. And so each child, like, over that is just $25 a child. And if you only have one child, you're paying $100 a year.
We are very affordable and that includes, you know, all of the supplies and activities and then all the extra stuff that their leaders are putting together, like those field trips and community service projects. And so. Being a nonprofit opened up the door for us to be able to maintain low cost and try to keep the cost low so that we don't exclude anybody. We also have a scholarship program, which has been really cool. So even though we are low cost, some families just can't.
do even that. So we've been able to award scholarships every year. We put that into effect like three years ago, I think. And so that's been really exciting because we give all of our families an opportunity to donate towards the scholarship fund when they enroll. So if you have extra money, you can help another family get into Ford School. And then some of our groups have even done fundraisers.
and raise money for our scholarship fund to give back to barefoot. So that's been exciting too. Yeah. Yeah. That's really nice. And I'm sure it helps the kids too, to see that what, how they can contribute. Yes. And make it possible for other families to. enjoy what they're doing so what have been some some surprises that you've that that have happened along the way well first before let's before you answer that let's go back
I want to find out about your backgrounds. So do you both have backgrounds in education? Was it? Oh, neither of us have backgrounds in education. That's what's so great about it. I love this. Okay. So you have backgrounds in education. Amber has four children and I have one. Okay. And so we run the gambit of having.
larger family and a small family, which I feel like has really worked out in our favor because we can see both sides of the way that an activity will work and the way that money will work and how much things cost. So that's been really great. We each have a different perspective on raising children because Amber has more and I have less. And so, you know, we come at things differently. And so it has been really great for us to be.
able to like throw these other ideas opposite at each other and see what sticks. But neither of us have an education background. Well, and did you both start homeschooling first or were you in the school system and then pulled your kids out to where, where are you there? Madeline's always, I have always homeschooled. Okay. My younger two have always homeschooled. I have two older kids, too, that started off in the private school and public school and homeschool. We've done it all.
And so, actually, one of my oldest daughters just graduated from a public high school. She wanted to go to public school when we moved to Tennessee. So, that is...
Not what I wanted, but it's part of unspooling is allowing them to make decisions for their education and where they're going and what they think they need to get there. So as much as I hated it, I... bit my tongue and we did it and she's been really great she's going she just got accepted into UT she's going into law so um she's gonna do great and she kind of just set her own path which is what we want for all of our kids
I don't think my younger two will ever see a public school system. I threaten them sometimes. My nine-year-old looked at me the other day and was like, mom, we both know that you're never going to do that. They've got your number. Well, I asked that question because what I've seen as a former teacher and somebody who worked in the public and private schools.
that sometimes the innovation comes from outside of the school system. And I like seeing that both of you saw or had an idea, had an interest and just went with it. And then it's that. what we said before we started recording that if you build it, they will come. And it's.
And I think there are leaders and then there are followers and not followers in the negative sense, but more like a, just tell me what to do and I'll be there. You know, I will run it extremely beautifully and I will do everything in my power to make it. run well, but I don't want to put it all together. So just do it and let me let me carry it out. And so I think what you've done is you've allowed so many other families who want to participate to do it in a way that's easier for them.
And that's just a great opportunity, particularly given what we know about the... changing landscape of education and that there's so many micro schools coming online and nature programs and forest schools and farm schools. It seems, I wish that there was a way to collect them all because I'm so fascinated. I want to see the numbers, you know, want to know.
Well, how many are we talking here? Because if you pay attention to Instagram, it feels like everybody's left public school. But we know that's not the case and it's not necessary. So.
So going back to that question earlier, so what are some things that, you know, some surprises putting together a business and running for a school? Okay, this is going to sound really... ridiculous but i'm going to say it anyway uh probably how easy it has been for the two of us to work together i know that a lot of people really start i think that that's where a lot of businesses fail or business partnerships fail is because people
struggle and I just we don't and so we work we work really we work really really well together we are completely honest with each other about ideas And, you know, if she throws an idea out there and I'm like, man, I don't really like that, then she'll be like, OK, well, what about this? I'm like, OK, I like that better or vice versa. If I throw an idea out, she's like, nope. And I'm like, OK, so let's rethink the way that we want to do that. And I'm like. No, a lot nicer than I say.
Not at each other. No, that's the beautiful part about it is because we have the same end goal. You know, we want this to be successful and we want it to work and we want our kids to also enjoy it. Amber and I both run our own group still. So, okay. We are both still leading our own groups. And so we want it to be fun for our kids and ourselves. We want it to be fun and successful for us just as much as we want it to be fun and successful for everyone else.
because that was the whole point was to get our kids out in the woods. So we want them to have a good time too. Right. And I think the most surprising thing has been how easy it has been for us to fall into a groove and really work together. That's great. What do you think? That's good. I mean, I could say the same thing. So I'm laughing because my youngest, they are playing.
across the field from us and he just fell into a giant bush. I got distracted. Also, maybe a really good thing is that we're able to... you know work and do this at the same time and take our kids on these amazing road trips together and make these memories together while still you know making barefoot yeah
Like an opportunity that is not lost on us at all that we get to do that. And we get to do it. We don't have to do it. We get to. Yeah, that's a great reframe. So we really try and remind ourselves that all the time. I mean, I don't even think we have to remind ourselves. It's really easy and fun. And we wake up like, what do we get to do today? Like, what are we doing?
I don't know. We both just really enjoy it. Yeah. And working together. We both really enjoy working together and never having met before we started this. You know, that could have gone anyway. Yeah, we have some other families helping at the beginning and they found out it just wasn't for them. And then we found out some of them weren't for us. And so we just parted ways. And that's even happened with some of the leaders like or families that have joined.
for school you know for school is not for everybody and so we get memories that join sometimes and they're like uh they don't maybe show up regularly or they'll show up once or twice and they decide it's not for them um and so i'm always i mean i'm not really surprised because i've seen it happen but I'm always like why like it surprises me that it's not for everybody because I really feel like it's shady and so um you know that happens too and that's been
a good thing to learn but it's also helped us really just spread our wings and try to cover those people a little bit more because we have families that end school and then we have families that do very traditional type schools we we have families whose kids go to like
three day a week schools and then you know one of the days when they're off they'll tend to barefoot okay and so we just have like a wide variety of learning styles even within our program uh from different families and so it's kind of shown us you know not everybody does the same things that we do um so like maybe we could do this like this or we could do this activity this way to reach those types of families um to encourage people because we really i mean
Not not only do I think like school should be for everybody. I mean, there's tons of science that. you know, backs up the claim that kids do better academically, socially, spiritually, mentally, physically, all of those things when they're spending time outside and they're learning outside and they're free to play.
you know, have some say in their education. And so we are trying to reach all of those families who maybe don't know that yet or don't understand the science and just keep them, you know, apart at barefoot until they get it. Yeah. Well, and speaking of, so you meet once a week, is it all day or? Well, it really, it really depends on the activity. So my group meets at 10 o'clock.
in the morning and some days and it depends on the weather as well you know like if it is super cold with a 40 mile an hour wind and we may only be out there for an hour or two but if it is you know an absolutely beautiful rainy day and we're doing a fun rainy day activity, we could be out there for six hours. It really, really just depends on. what is going on with the kids and how into it they are. And most of our normal activities last from one to three hours, but there are several.
times during the week that are like several weeks out of the month that it's like oh my gosh we have been here for six hours we have to go home yeah it's almost three o'clock in the afternoon I'm like calling Amber on my way home from forest school and I'm like what are you doing and she's like
just left forest school I'm like oh my gosh me too okay I know it's a good day yeah I remember those days those are the best when you get the kids in the car they just crash immediately it's just like that's a good day yes yes so then Do you meet at the same location or you rotate? All of our groups meet at the same party. And so new leaders sometimes don't get this. And we have to explain it a lot.
They are like, well, this park has really cool, you know. And members too. And members also, yeah. They want to go to different parks. And we're like, go to a different park and explore for a field trip. But for your weekly activities, we... We want everybody to meet at the same park. It allows the kids to observe the seasonal changes in their classroom. Because it is the most magical thing when you walk into your classroom.
at the beginning of March and all the trees that have been dug all winter long and you look up and they're all blooming. It's just so cool and the kids know that. Or vice versa, when you're standing in the middle of your classroom and the wind blows and everything starts falling off the trees, it's kind of magical. But if you're not in the same spot every week, you're not going to notice the changes.
in the same detail that you will if you are only visiting that park once a month. And then it also allows the kids the freedom to explore a little further. and be able to learn their trails. They're not just meeting with the same people, but they're meeting in the same place. So that routine of being in the same place with the same people. But it's kind of like going to a museum where, or like, you know, we experienced this on our road trip this week. We didn't have time to.
explore one of the cities that we stopped in very much. And so we only took time to see the really big things and do it really quick. And that's kind of... What happens if you're always moving parts, you're only going to see the big things because it's your first time there and you don't have time to explore all the details. But when you're meeting in the same place every single week, your kids are looking really close. Like they've seen these big trees and these.
you know, pretty flower patch over to the left and this rock wall that you have, but have they looked, you know, in the cracks of the creek? and seen the fossil shells or have they explored the holes underneath the trees to see what might be living in there or you know just all of those little things that you wouldn't necessarily see on your first trip
I think it's the chance to look at that stuff more closely. So all of our groups meet at the same park every single week. And then if they want to do field trips. they will do that too, like other places to maybe hike or explore or swim or whatever. I see. Okay. No, that makes sense. It gives them that opportunity to be really, really immersive and dive deep into that particular geographical location.
Yes. Yes. Yeah. So what have been some some some things that you might would change if you if you started over? Oh, man. Well, we have changed a lot. We make changes a lot. So you just modify and pivot as needed. We very much so do. And we tell our leaders and our members that, you know, like we are still new. I mean, we are still really new for as much growth as we had.
in the past couple of years, we are constantly, you know, throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks to say. And, you know, like there are things that Amber and I have done that we thought were going to work really well and they just haven't. And we are the first ones to admit that, to be like, you know what? That didn't go the way that we thought it was going to. So we probably shouldn't do it like that again, you know, or any, I mean.
And that goes just for overall. We are constantly changing things and growing. Like we said, you know, we are not afraid of criticism at all. And so I feel like that has been to our advantage because when something doesn't work, we aren't digging our heels in. We are looking at it and going, how can we change this to make it better? And we're constantly, we have some really great. volunteers.
All of our leaders are volunteers and we have some that have stepped up into bigger roles for our organization. And so they've been a really good sounding board for us where we we had some really good ideas before we did leader interviews back in the. winner whenever we were interviewing leaders for the next school year and we were going to change some things and they were both like nope we hate that okay yeah and so we were like okay we're going to reevaluate this and
What about this? And they liked it. And, you know, ultimately the final decision would have been ours, but we really want that input. And we take stuff to our board of directors, you know, and we're, we don't know what to do about this. Like we can see this going one of three ways, which way do you guys, you know? And so, and then we've had leaders that are like, we don't like this.
And or can you change this or can you can you give us more in this area? And so we've remodified some of that stuff this past year. And so. Yeah, we make changes. I feel like we're always. Yeah, we are always we are very much so always changing things. I feel like one of the hardest things that we have gone through, though, is the rapid growth. We went from 17 groups to 53 groups. And.
That year was, I mean, the expansive growth that we had was a lot. It was, it was a whole lot. That happened in like six months. Yes. And so we, it was a lot of playing catch up, you know. And so like the train had left the station and we were like running behind it. But we did. And so now we're on the train. And now we're all moving forward, but there for a little bit, it was really, that was probably one of our most difficult things was just growing so quickly.
trying to modify our tiny program into something that we could replicate that would be easy and that people could do in multiple states. Right. And how many states are you in again? You said. We're in 11 states now. 11 states. That's right. You said that. And was most of this growth like right after the pandemic or was it right at the beginning when you kind of got started? Like within that first year. It was after, but I think I don't.
I don't necessarily contribute it to that because we were already splitting our group that year when 2020 happened. I mean, we did get a lot of pandemic homeschoolers that enrolled that following year. And then a lot of them.
went back to public school and then some of about half of them probably stayed homeschooling and maybe you know out of those people that continue to homeschool maybe half of them rejoined barefoot the following year um it just wasn't like i said it's not for everybody they were doing other stuff with their homeschooling uh so
I don't know. I don't necessarily contribute it to that. We get this question a lot and it definitely, we did grow after the pandemic, but I think we would have grown after like, if there was not a pandemic. Yeah. It was happening. I see. Yeah. It was happening regardless. Yes. That makes sense. Yeah. Well, so how would you say that this program has changed your lives and your kids' lives?
I think that, and Amber will probably say something similar, or she may say something different. Who knows? We'll see. I think that probably the biggest thing that, and the biggest way that it's changed is my outlook on weather. and being outside you know we used to and i am a huge outdoorsy person and we camp and we hike and i love it
But, you know, if it was cold and rainy and I had plans to go to the zoo that next day, I would be like, we're not going to go to the zoo because it's going to be cold and rainy. And I don't think that way anymore. Now, I think we're like we have plans to go to the zoo. The weather is not going to stop me at all.
And nobody else will be there. And no one else will be there. And we'll have a great time. And so I think that really, it's like the resilience. It just, even in myself, I am not a fan of being cold. So it's the resilience of being outside in cold weather. And, you know, the weather not stopping my plans, the weather not stopping us from going and exploring and doing things. Yeah, there's a saying that's something about there's no such thing as bad weather, just wrong clothing or.
wrong attire or something like that. So now I get that. And that's something we try to educate our families on too, because not everybody knows that either. And so we are like, don't stop coming to school just because it got cold because you're going to miss out on so much. Yeah. Yeah. My daughter, she's 16 and does a weekly co-op.
with a bunch of high school students and they do it outside or they have been um and then when it got pretty pretty cold it ended up going to an indoor space just because of the multiple different things but there was a part of me that was kind of like Why don't we just stay outside, you know, and modify the plans to match the weather versus the other way around. But we'll see what happens this year. I think she's kind of lobbying.
to stay outside more? You know, I mean, it just, it just changes everything, right? It just expands everybody. I mean, there is definitely a sense of freedom that comes with that type of learning, I feel like. And I have the experience of being a public school mom, so I know I can compare. And man, this is so much better. It's so much easier, too.
Right. Well, and nature has a way of diffusing the energy of our kids, especially when there's a lot of them together. Yes. You know, when you're in the confines of like four walls, it feels like everything gets magnified and people get more ramped up. And so it's like, go outside. their creativity and problem solving skills like just being able to watch that play out in a natural way I think nature really encourages that
Yeah. And with your leaders and with you all, do you have sort of a way of approaching that with kids? Like if there is a conflict, do you have sort of a, let's take a, let's take a step back and allow this to kind of unfold or do you have sort of. Things that you say to your kids or ways that you approach it. So we have parents on site. And so, you know, every family is different. We encourage.
families and parents to do what's best for their kids, do what's best for your family. Our leaders, that is part of their training is conflict resolution. And everybody agrees to a code of conduct and things like that. They joined their fit. And so we follow all of that. But really, you know, we leave the parenting to the parents. They're there. They're homeschooling because we want to be involved, you know, in their child's education and discipline, whatever that may look like.
Everybody does things different. So we leave that to the parents. Now, if it was a big situation, of course, our leaders would, you know, intervene to diffuse something or get the parents or stop the kids or whatever. But we rarely have that happen. There's been a couple of things, but not much. You know, we have with younger siblings last year, we had probably about 4,000 kids, 3,500 kids somewhere in there. If you include younger siblings that attend and God say that number again.
We don't know exactly because we don't record the younger siblings that come with their, anybody over five has to enroll. So, you know, we have. toddlers and stuff that tag along with oh i gotcha that are registered but it's probably about between i don't know maybe 3 500 or 4 000 when you include the younger siblings past year. I thought you said 45,000. That's why I was like, wait, did she know? We had about 2,800 enrolled.
kids last year and so they you know there was probably about that same number close to that same number of younger siblings um attending each week And so there's a lot of kids. So things will happen. And there's adults who don't always agree and see eye to eye. So there may be things happening between them, too. Who knows? But we rarely had any big issues because we are very in a very relaxed.
environment and we are allowing the parents to, in fact, I did have a parent last year that some kids were playing on a structure at our park and it was the first day of school. And one of the moms was like, are you just going to let them do that? And I was like, well, their mom is standing right under the thing and she seems to be okay with it.
And she was just like, what? You're not going to stop this? And I was like, no. Like, every family has different roles. And I tell my kids that, too. I tell my kids. Like, they're like, you know, they get to do this.
you know, they are, they're not allowed to climb the tree this high. And I'll tell my kids the same thing. You know, every family has different rules. So it's okay for you to do that, or it's not okay for you to do that, but their mom thinks differently. So we're just going to let them do what they do. Yeah. Well, and I think that's a great life lesson for our kids. There was a couple of things that you said earlier talking about the challenges and the shifting and the changing. And I think.
what a better, what better way to show our kids how to pivot and change and modify and get feedback and work collaboratively than doing what you're doing, which is to say, you know, this is our idea. This is our goal. This is our mission, but we're not always going to have all the information.
right out the gate and we're going to need to depend on some feedback and be open to feedback. And I think that's a great example to set for the kids too. Um, and, and, and of course the same with the way parents feel comfortable. being out in nature. There's a lot of parents who are still trying to deal with some of their own anxiety and fear related to the outdoors. So I can imagine. Yeah. When you're new to nature, you're more cautious.
For sure. And then, you know, every child is different. I let my daughter do some things that I won't let my son do. Just because every kid is different. And same, I mean, I have four kids. They're also different. And, you know, our oldest son was into dirt bike riding and it did not bother me at all.
because he's just naturally very cautious and I did not have to worry it never stressed me out watching him but my six-year-old I'm like no we're not doing that we're gonna wait little and I'm like oh you're a different child we're gonna have to wait yeah Yeah. Sometimes you, yeah, you have to look at the individual. It's a, it goes back to that unschooling principle, like looking at the individual, we don't do the same thing for everybody just because, you know, have to modify as needed. So.
Well, thank you both so much for being on here today. And I would love for you to just share with people, you know, what your goals are and how they can find you and how they can participate. If, you know. hearing this is it's kind of lit them up and gotten them excited about possibly adding a forest school in their in their area yes we would love to add some more forest schools so we actually will be opening mid-year group
in January. So if you want to apply to be a leader, we have leader interest meetings all throughout the summer. Our website is GriffithUniversity.org. You can go in there under Lead a Community and find out how to get started. It's free, and we would love to be in every state. That is a goal that we have, eventually to be in all 50 states.
And we also really want to put together some kind of scholarship program for graduating barefitters so that we can give them college money to go into fields for like earth science and geology. meteorology and all the things that we learn, you know, if they want to major in forestry or anything like that. So we're working on trying to get a scholarship program set up for our high schoolers. That's neat. those are our two main goals yeah two main goals
We have a lot of goals, but those are the two main ones. We won't go on and on about all the other ones, but we, we are well on our way. I would love for us to be in all 50 States. Like that is a big goal. So hopefully fingers crossed. Yeah. Well, I'm hoping that people will listen to this and hear from the various states that you aren't already in and will consider it. So do you work with the park and recs of the various different states? Have you thought about that or reached out? No, we do.
All of our groups have a relationship with their park. We send our park newsletters every year and Christmas updates and yearly into year updates. We let them know how many. scholarships we provide, how many community service hours our groups collectively did, how many families and barefooters have got to experience.
you know, former school because of our parks allowing us to meet there. And so, Wendy, do you hear that? I do. Yeah. All right. Yeah. So we do have a relationship with our parks, all of our leaders.
are have a relationship with the park they get permission from the park to meet there on a weekly basis and then we also partner with them for community service projects we've had parks that have or groups that have done butterfly gardens and bug hotels and bird boxes and park cleanup and all kinds of things like at their local park and my my group is repairing picnic tables at our park and cleaning graffiti that sometimes shows up so um oh gosh that's amazing yeah
We definitely encourage relationships. That is, I mean, community is at the heart of barefoot. So that's not just with, you know, other home schoolers that happen to meet with you on Monday afternoons, but it's with your local community doing community service projects and then with your park as well. That's great. That is really, really nice. I imagine there's plenty of parking wrecks around the country that would love to have you involved.
And expand their program, you know, because that, that does make a huge difference. Well, thank you both so very much and enjoy the rest of your trip. Thank you. Thank you for inviting us. Yeah, no problem. I'm glad you could do it. We are so excited. We're headed to Acadia National Park next. And where is that? It is in Maine. It is like Far Harbor, Maine area.
Gosh, that's a big trip you're taking. So how many miles will you be traveling total? You think? Gosh, I don't know. I have no idea. Like when we did Texas, we did 3,600 miles. And so I have to think that this is probably around. That's it's definitely more that at least. So we've been wanting, I've been wanting to go to Maine for a while. And I told my husband, he wasn't really trying to go with me.
Because if you're not, I'm just going to go with Madeline. And she was like, why don't y'all go? Y'all would have more fun. So Madeline and I had been talking about it. And we didn't really have a date. And so she called me last Tuesday. And she's like, should we just go to Maine this Friday? And I'm like, yeah. And so she came from Texas and drove up to Tennessee and picked me up. And we've been on our way ever since. Wow.
That's impressive. Well, good for you guys. You definitely are doing what you're supposed to be doing. That's great. Well, take care. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening.
to learn more about guests on the podcast and to stay up to date on how they are showing up to make the world a better place for children and families please check the show notes To become a part of the great educational awakening and to keep up with my latest writings, offerings, and workshops, be sure you're signed up for my Substack newsletter.
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