Hello everyone, welcome to today's episode of the Lesbian Supper Club podcast. You are joined by Scarlett today and I've got a pretty sensitive topic that I want to discuss that I think is where a lot of our listeners and followers of the podcast lie, but never really get as much maybe airtime or potentially feel a little bit invalidated or unseen sometimes within the queer community. But before I jump into that, I just just want to talk briefly about, well, I suppose are we
still calling it Les Topia? Do we call it that anymore? Is that a thing of the past? Because I feel like it's still very much happening in the world of lesbians online. But one topic I do just want to kind of cover off quickly is the recent, how do we put this, the recent unfolding of JoJo Siwa in the Big Brother house and her partner or now ex partner Kath Ebbs and two sides of that experience.
If you aren't familiar with this, just to give you a bit of background context, JoJo Siwa has been, I think online and in the media ever since she was basically born. She was one of the characters of Dance Mums and then since the end of Dance Mums, she continued to build media career for herself which has spanned from dancing, singing, performing on TikTok and basically as far as JoJo Siwa goes, I'm pretty sure she has done pretty much everything out there.
She recently went into the Big Brother house in the UK and initially sparked outrage, not because of her, but because there was a issue between her and another housemate, Mickey Rourke, who said some really quiet horrendous things to JoJo and made some pretty horrendous statements about queerness and also just the dangers of misogyny in society, which I
touched on previously. Post that kind of whole debacle, JoJo formed a very close friendship with another housemate called Chris. And it's not really for me or anyone to depict the displays of that friendship or how that friendship formed. But it was a very close friendship, one where many people would feel that a lot of
boundaries were crossed. Considering JoJo very openly went into the Big Brother house in a relationship, in a committed relationship with her partner at the time, Kath Ebbs.
And as the Big Brother show developed over the three weeks, I think that they were in there, there were some pretty questionable displays of behaviour and affection between Chris and JoJo, which then stirred a pretty big outrage on the Internet. And then post JoJo leaving the Big Brother house, there was a very quick breakdown of relationship between Kath and JoJo.
And it's a really difficult one because naturally, and I think the obvious 1 is that there were clear lines of disrespect there and some really bad ways of handling things. And I think that whenever you are in the media, no matter how old or the situation, and just actually outside of the media, I think we all have a responsibility to behave in the best interests of ourselves and other people.
And whilst I think that we're all human and we all make mistakes on the daily, actually there is a line, especially when cameras are on you and you know someone else could be affected by your behaviour so publicly, that you should potentially take that into account. JoJo made some statements on the show that basically alluded to the fact that she had realized a
few things about herself. And then also subsequent to that, a few things about the relationship, which then unfolded into Kath flying over from Australia to meet JoJo after the show had ended. And JoJo very quickly called off the relationship. And there's two parts to that story. There's Cat's side and then there's Jojo's side. And I don't think it's really for anyone else to kind of say who's right or wrong. But I will say this, which is a lot of people, particularly
straight people. The most disturbing thing that I saw was that a lot of people were excusing and actually beyond excusing, advocating for this behaviour. And I don't necessarily think this is because people were advocating for the overstepping that was happening a lot. I think people actually just generally in society still don't really recognise queer relationships.
And that for me was kind of the weirdest thing to to watch unfold, which was a lot of comments online about how they had something special and therefore anything else beyond that was fine. And I think that can ring true. I think you can be in a relationship and things change and people change and those things do happen. Those things happen all day, every day. Sadly, none of us are are special to those things happening to us or to the people around us.
But the most disturbing thing for me was that people almost excused all of that because it felt like she was going from a queer relationship, which I think so many people in society or just society generally still don't recognise as quote, UN quote real. And going into a heteronormative relationship or what people thought was entering into a
heteronormative relationship. And therefore we're kind of celebrating that forgetting the facts or actually not even forgetting, just completely dumb to acknowledging that the existence of queer relationships in all of their different forms are just as valid as any heterosexual relationship. Involve just as many feelings, involve just as much heartbreak, and involve just as many issues and actually predominantly the same issues as what heterosexual relationships experience.
And I think the saddest thing was that people just couldn't really seem to grasp that concept. So for me, that was where I think as the community, the big issue should lie, not really lying on who was right or who was wrong, because I think so many people will form different opinions of that. And I do think that the way that Kath was treated was completely disrespectful and should never have happened and that should never have happened to them.
And I think the public element of that is awful and my heart really does go out to them. And I don't think anyone should be excusing that behaviour put down solely to Jojo's age, although I do think it plays into it hugely. Being in the media at the age of 21, being on a live well live at the time, but obviously cut down for viewers. Digestion should be used to kind of make that behaviour better or
acceptable. She is young, but she's also old enough to go on the show and old enough to make decisions and has clearly had many, many of life experiences that probably even I and most of us listening to this are, still have not experienced and have not had potentially the guidance. But then I also acknowledge with that guidance comes a lot of opinions and involvement of people in your life as a young person. And I do think she has clearly been guided and told what to do a lot of her life.
So probably being thrusted into an environment where for the first time she was alone and had to think for herself was probably hugely liberating and made her realise a lot of things about herself. I do just think that that should have been handled a whole lot better. And I think Kath handled that situation overall with a lot of a lot of grace and through a lot of heart still managed to uphold
a lot of grace. I know a lot of people talk about as well online the age gap, which again for me I do think does play into this. I think Kath is 27 or 28 and JoJo is 21. And whilst obviously there is nothing practically wrong with that, when I think about myself as a 21 year old, myself as a 28 year old and actually even now myself as a 30 year old, the changes in growth that you go
through is massive, monumental. And I think that when you are of, from my personal experience being now 30, I couldn't think about dating a 21 year old. It wouldn't appeal to me at all just because the age for me just wouldn't appeal to me. But also the emotional age. And I think the growth that you would kind of had to guide someone through just in their life, their sexuality, emotions, conversations, handling difficulty is, is a huge, huge responsibility.
And I think that sounds like a bit of a bizarre way to put it because you're in a relationship with that person. You're not their mum or their sole caregiver. But I do think when the age difference in the 20s is kind of early 20s versus late 20s, it can be bigger than just years. It can be, as I've said about all of that emotional growth that is very much needed. And I don't think you can necessarily always relate on the same level to someone where
there is such a big age gap. But again, I do think that that unfolding was horrendous. And I think that it should be a huge learning curve for JoJo. And I think the sad thing about that is from what I've seen, it doesn't really seem that way. She doesn't seem to be taking a lot of responsibility.
But beyond that, I think the way that the world has received that unfolding has actually been the most disappointing element of it. Not only how the world responded to the initial homophobic, misogynistic comments from Mickey, which were horrendous and took so long for anyone to actually act on and do anything about, they then just disregarded her queer relationship entirely to push this narrative of this heteronormative relationship.
And I've even then seen comments which are further disgracing that basically from men saying ha ha Mickey was right. Is anyone going to give Mickey apology? Why would anyone give a man threatening a young woman who has also abused other women in the media industry and very likely beyond any form of apology. Also, are we lacking brain cells so much so as society that we can't acknowledge that two things can exist at once?
Which is her journey of her sexual identity is very very different to someone completely ridiculing and over sexualising her sexual identity. The two things are just not even anywhere near in the same space. So that was my very boring take. I don't think that there's a space for gossip on this
podcast. I think we can talk about situations that happen in the media because they're always relevant between, you know, Les Topia, TikTok, lesbians, breakups, makeups, all of these things that go on in the media. But broadly, I think for me, it always comes down to the narrative of like, what sits behind that? That's the problem. And again, definitely what sits behind that is how our existence is still basically a
laughingstock. And I think it's really sad that whilst we all sit online and argue between ourselves around who was right or wrong, between Joe and Kath, which isn't really for anyone to discuss other than themselves and between themselves. And if they choose to put their emotions and opinions of their story online, then absolutely.
But I think it's sad that as a community we often get hung up on that and actually don't raise our head above water and look at the wider picture of the the kind of unfolding of that and the narrative that surrounds it. So that's my hot take on JoJo Siwa and Cath Ebbs. But today I wanted to talk about, and I suppose it kind of actually ties into the narrative of the JoJo Siwa and Cath Ebbs because JoJo herself said that she has questioned a lot about herself during that time.
And when she says that, I'm assuming she means anything from her gender identity to her sexuality and likely beyond. And I think in light of Lesbian Visibility week, I was having a little think about what I wanted to come on and talk about today and I was struggling, struggling a little bit for topics. I've had a pretty stressful week.
I've been down in Cornwall trying to finish off renovating the property that I have here, which is stressful because going against every grain of my lesbian being, I've realised that no matter how hard I try, I'm just not very good at DIY. And so even measuring a kitchen cabinet has become a highly stressful task for me to carry out. I bought a drill the other day with none of the drill bits. Why can no one just add those in? Like, why would you have to buy those separate?
Like surely if you're buying a drill, you're buying everything to operate the drill, right? So that's been a little bit stressful. And amongst all of that, I've been trying to think about what I could come on and talk about today that hasn't been discussed before or if it has been discussed before, maybe not in the depth that has been needed.
And yeah, in light of Lesbian Visibility Week, and I was thinking about this during Lesbian Visibility Week, you know, the very fact that it's called Lesbian Visibility Week, to me feels very much about it being for visibility of lesbians, AKA visible lesbians. And of course, to celebrate our existence and our visibility in US Living truthfully in our queerness and celebrating ourselves and celebrating each other and being loud about our existence is incredible and
something we should. I would have Lesbian Visibility Week once a week for every month of the year because there's still so much work to be done in this space. But it did get me thinking about everyone that exists that don't know if they're gay, question every day if they're gay. It eats them up inside. They know they're gay, but they're in the closet and they just live in that closet not knowing how to come out. Or they've tried to come out and it's been such a terrible experience.
They've gone back in the closet and I don't really think we speak about that enough during Lesbian Visibility Week or actually at all. And it's funny because looking at the statistics of this podcast, anything to do with the title lesbian, any of those buzzwords like lesbian gay that we put in our in in episode titles generally always grow a lot faster. And I can only imagine that's because, and I can't only imagine, I can probably speak
for this as fact. That's because there's a lot of you listening and there's a lot of people in the world that do have that battle everyday before they come out or if they ever come out where they question if they're a lesbian.
And in order to find the answers to those questions, we do that very classic thing now where we put it into Google or we put it into YouTube, or these days we put it into whatever platform we listen to our podcasts on. And I know that because I used to do it, AKA search the hashtag lesbian on Tumblr or when Instagram first came out and everyone loved the hashtag on Instagram. Although I know they're very much making a comeback, I would hashtag search the word lesbian
to try and find other lesbians around the world who had the hashtag lesbian in their photos to try and understand this community and see if I related to it. And that's why I have a spread of lesbians that I follow on Instagram that quite literally span across the world that over the years I have spoken to or formed online friendships with these people that I feel like I really know. Because back in the day, which makes me sound so old.
And I am still struggling with being 30, which I know everyone's going to say is so young and I know it is so young, but I still feel like I haven't achieved enough. And I get in my head about it. But I definitely have a gaggle of lesbians across the world that I have followed for the now 14 years that I have been out whom I found because I was searching the hashtag lesbian on Instagram.
And so I really, yeah, wanted to talk today and break down the question, how do I know if I'm a lesbian? So if you are here with that question and whether you're 17 or 37, single, married, going through heartbreak, or even just curious, firstly, I can promise you that you're definitely not alone. And this episode is kind of again, for anyone who thinks themselves, is this just a phase
or is this actually who I am? And I asked a few of my friends about this topic and this question and asked them, if you cast your mind back, what was those initial thoughts and kind of how did they transpire into actions or, or things that you've done both having conversations in your head and just physically to, to try and figure it out. So one of my friends said, which is a classic.
I've already mentioned this. I used to Google can straight girls like their best friend more than their boyfriend? And this person said they've done it multiple times a week. And it's really funny because I don't think any queer person ever has a unique experience because I done this.
I had boyfriends from, you know, obviously innocent relationship but quote UN quote boyfriends from the age of 11 to 17 and during that time was also completely infatuated, obsessed and in love with my best friend and so would quite literally ask myself the question or Google the question in multiple ways multiple times a week. Can straight girls like their best friends? Why does it feel different for my best friend than it does my boyfriend, etcetera, etcetera.
If you're listening to this and you've Googled that, maybe you should create yourself like a little checklist and we'll go through this podcast episode and we can do like a rating at the end of you're definitely gay, you're questioning and maybe you just need some more exploring or you're straight. And I can probably tell you that the last one doesn't exist for anyone listening right now, because you probably wouldn't be here listening to me gaggle on about this if you weren't trying
to find the answer. And hate to break it to you, maybe that's the answer. Someone else said to me that I realised I won't be a lesbian when my boyfriend proposed and my action wasn't joy, it was pure panic. And this one I haven't personally experienced Touchwood, thank God, no man has ever proposed to me.
And I can safely say I don't think any man ever will propose to me. But I can relate in the sense of having boyfriends when I was younger, who at the time, I really, you know, that kind of like puppy love vibe like I've I've got a boyfriend and you want to do all the things that you see your friends doing, like holding your boyfriend's hand,
first kiss, all of that stuff. But I know for me that when my friends would talk about those experiences when we were younger and having crushes and kissing their boyfriend for the first time, or going to their boyfriend's house, or their boyfriend coming over to their house or going to a date that was probably a McDonald's, they would be buzzing about it.
And I would be sat there pretending to be buzzing about it, thinking that was probably a huge waste of four hours of my life because I just sat there the whole time thinking about what to say to keep the conversation going because I was so hugely awkward and probably not wanting to be there, but not realising that. So just trying to fill a void
within myself. So again, if you are listening to this and you are on dating apps or you're meeting guys in whatever situation and after the initial chit chat dies down and you feel yourself potentially scrambling to push conversation and your mind's wandering elsewhere and there's just something really deep at the pit of your stomach that doesn't
feel quite right. It's probably not because you've got something wrong with you and it's probably not because the poor guy's got chit chat, although that can also very much be the case that the guy can just have chit chat. It probably is something else that you feel and biology and Physiology and your body does not lie.
And if you're sat in a situation with anyone actually, but we're just going to tailor this to if you're thinking you're a lesbian or not and it just doesn't feel quite right. You feel like you're putting on a bit of a mask or you don't get those butterflies that your friends talk about. That's probably another good sign. And then the third one was a friend of mine and I just wrote this down saying honestly, I was 35, I was married to a man and I was watching the Elwood for the first time.
I paused the episode, looked at the screen and was like, oh shit, the penny dropped. I can't relate to this one in a sense of being 35 because one of I always speak about this like one of my greatest blessings or something that I'm so grateful for to younger me was having the strength in a small town in Somerset to own my truth and jump out of the closet.
When I realised like when the penny really dropped for me, which was basically when I went on a date with my first girlfriend and it felt so normal to me. I just owned who I was intrinsically. And I know that is so rare and I know that was also probably in a very privileged space to do that. And it doesn't mean I didn't struggle and had to have hard conversations because I definitely did have to do both
of those things. But I know comparably to other people who will be listening to this, they will be thinking about those conversations and they will be very aware or even acutely aware that the experience of coming out and dealing with those thoughts or feelings will be a lot harder.
So I don't want to bypass other people whose background or family dynamics or friendship dynamics or where they live and make it seem like, well, you should just come out and then everything will drop and everything will be fine because that's for so many people, not going to be the case. But I am super grateful that I was in a position to be able to do that and own my sexuality and then go on to live in my sexuality very solidly now for a very long time.
So I haven't had to go through the further progressions of life, which is as you grow up, getting a job and hiding your sexuality, continuing to have to hide it from your friends for years and years, continuing to have to hide it from your family
for years and years. And then the worst part of it, ultimately, then probably meeting someone and having to fall into the cycle of life and society, which is you meet someone, you date, you move in, you get a dog, you propose or you propose, and then you get a dog. And then you get married and then you have the kids and you fall into all of that. And then there's that just that silent niggle in the back of your mind or in the pit of your stomach that something's not right.
And it's not until maybe watching the L Word or seeing some other queer representation, which is why queer representation is so, so important and feeling more related to that than you have ever any of your own experiences in life. And again, if you are listening and those things have happened to you, it's good. It's hard, but it's good because you're exploring yourself and you're dealing with these emotions and these thoughts and these feelings that are coming up.
But of course, it's also really hard. But I know so many of you will be listening to those 3 scenarios that I've just read out. And no doubt you'll be able to relate to 1 or maybe or three. And you should take some solace in knowing that you're not
alone. And I want to take the moment as well to highlight that no matter where you are or no matter who you are, no matter what your past experiences are, there will always be a community somewhere for you that will welcome you with open arms, hold you, and be there to support you in whatever stage you are in your life or in your queerness journey. And that's fine. And you may come out to 1 friend and then decide to stay in the closet for another two years.
That doesn't invalidate your gayness. It doesn't make you weak. It doesn't make you wrong for feeling that or maybe feeling like you should be questioning yourself because you're not committing fast enough or just enough. Generally. You're still very much part of this community, and you're still very much part of Lesbian Visibility Week.
Like I said, for some people it really is like a lightning bolt moment, and for others it is slow, Like realizing, I don't know that a song that you've always loved is in a completely different key to what you thought it may be. And those things are all valid and there's no one way to know going on from the struggle of recognizing things. And I've kind of already touched on this a bit, but I truly believe a lot of it comes down to compact.
And if you don't know the term compact, compact stands for compulsory heterosexuality. It would help if I could actually say that correctly. It's basically the idea that we're all just raised to assume that we're straight and that straightness is the default. And it's basically what we see every day, in every story, every film, and just every expectation of ourself. So if you are a girl and you're not repulsed by the idea of men, you're told you're probably
straight. But that's not necessarily true. And compet teaches us that admiring women doesn't equal attraction, and wanting men to like you equals desire and kissing the boys that you didn't want to kiss or never felt quite right. Kissing is just a part of being a teenager and working out who you like. And obviously it is working out who you like. But maybe who you like just isn't men.
And the truth is, I think so many of us performed straightness and continue to form straightness because it basically is the only script that we are given. And This is why I bang on so much. And I think the podcast bangs on so much about visibility in the media, visibility in our daily lives, in queer spaces, in community, because these things are so important as providing foundations to the unravelling of anyone who has sat there
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a diverse variety of expertise. Get the tools to manage your anxiety with Better Help. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/LSE. That's Better Help. Help.com/LSEand yeah, I think so many of us just performed it because it was the script we
were given. I was, I remember being given that script is like being really young and it's actually kind of gross because you look back and you're like, I was a child and kind of, it's a weird thing that adults do, which is borderline sexualisation, where people would comment on my appearance and then be like, you'll marry a really handsome man one day or you know, you're going to, I have all the boys running after
you. And I think when people say that to you enough times, it does just create that pathway in your brain and you don't really think about any existence outside of that. And it's I, I didn't for so long. I definitely didn't. And even when I did, I didn't know what it was and I didn't know what to call it. So it just went to the back of my mind for most of my younger teenage life because an alternative narrative just wasn't provided to me.
And it doesn't mean that I didn't know lesbians existed. Of course, I knew lesbians existed, but not in a way where I ever thought that that would be my life because no one had ever told me otherwise that that could possibly be my life. And if you have ever dated men and you've never really felt anything real, and alongside that, you've always had an intense admiration for women, but you've just brushed it off as I just, you know, just love other women.
Like, it's just a admiration, like respect thing. That can definitely be those things, but it could also be a queerness screaming within you. I want to do a small like quiz now about is this gay or and I'm just going to run through 4 scenarios to help with your checklist as well. They're classic scenarios that I again think is pretty much a universal lesbian experience, and if you can relate to them, it may be a pretty good indication.
So the first one is you rewrote the end of every Disney Princess movie so the Princess runs off with her best friend. Two, you told everyone you were straight, but your Pinterest board says otherwise. Three, you've said quite a few times. I just really admire that girl's energy while staring at a woman with tattoos and a nose ring for 10 minutes. And I know that these are so
classic and they're so binary. But again, from personal experience, when I was first realising my queerness, I loved the things about lesbians and that generally do display lesbians more so AKA tattoos at the time, piercings, shorter haircut, all of those things, the way that they dress way more than what I do now. And that's not because I still don't admire those things now, but because I'm safer in my queerness. I don't feel like I need to chase after those things and other women.
Whereas definitely when I was younger, the quote UN quote gayer looking the girl almost the better at times. And look, these aren't diagnostic tools, but they can clues about working yourself out and working out where you may lie on the spectrum. And I know again, I've spoken a lot just about the term lesbian here. And of course it can range from lesbian to bisexual and anything in between. Queer, it is a spectrum like
anything. So I don't want you to think, well, I do still genuinely have these feelings for men and you're using the term lesbian and making it one or the other. Obviously, I'm speaking on this podcast from my personal experience. So I can only give rationale and kind of guidance on my experience and how I felt and how those feelings and thoughts came up for me. It will look different for not just any lesbian, but anyone who
sits on any end of the spectrum. So I'm not trying to push every push anyone out here or make out that if you haven't ticked all these boxes, but you're still truly questioning that you couldn't be queer or gay. It's just usually they do tipple to kind of one side or the other. And then I think going on from that as well is almost again, pushing from society. But I've got a real problem with society at the moment, don't I? But I actually do have a problem
with society at the moment. Society at the moment is shit. I spoke about this on a subscribe Series A couple of weeks ago. That we have basically gone back in time in society, which is no shock to anyone I would imagine. But both like politically, culturally, it seems like just a horrible place to be, which is getting worse. And I think the impact that that's having on marginalised
groups is astronomical. Trans women not being recognised as women in the UK. Trump's policies disgrace Australia. Some of the things that have been coming out of their election? Absolute disgrace. I don't pretend to be a political mastermind, but I don't think it takes a genius to say that it's a pretty scary time to be. And within that I think the myths that then can come up and make us all question ourselves and doubt ourselves.
Whilst it feels like the the wrong side of the world is getting stronger and stronger and they're kind of building an army trying to strip us of our existence across the whole spectrum of queerness is pretty shocking. And I think it does have an impact, particularly if you are someone who's not 100% grounded in who you are and your sexuality will make you again hideaway and question yourself.
And so I kind of wanted to go over some myth busts, which are things that I think are said in the media, can be said innocently by friends and family, or maybe not so innocently but come across as innocently, which make you question yourself. And I just want to go through them and then break them down 1 by 1 and give my 2 pennies worth as to why I think they're bullshit. So myth 1 is I've dated men so I can't be a lesbian.
Or when you tell other people that you're questioning your sexuality, they tell you that you've dated men. So that can't be right. Obviously that's really fucking stupid because I used to hate cheese, which I know is not probably the best comparison, but I did. I hated cheese for a large proportion of my life. Everyone around me love cheese and I never liked cheese. I just didn't like the taste. I couldn't understand it and now
I fucking love cheese. So just because one thing existed for us at one point in our life and we are very grounded and solidified in that experience that we were having at the time and where we were in that time of our lives, doesn't mean that that will transpire through all of our lives. Because we all grow and change and change our minds everyday about who we are and what we want and who we want around us.
And I think we're almost punished in society or question for that and told that there's something wrong with us if we start questioning the the narrative that we've lived for so long or just questioning society's expectations. And again, it puts us into a really vulnerable space of questioning ourselves. But of course, just because you've dated men doesn't mean you're not queer.
And it might mean, as I said, you're on the spectrum of queerness where you're bi so you date both men and women. Or you're queer and you emotionally are way more attracted to women in a relationship sense but are still sexually attracted to men vice versa. Or you could have been in a relationship with a man for the last 10 years, had two kids, and still absolutely be as much of a big fat lesbian as what I am. The second myth is I've never been with a woman, so how can I know?
Or I've never been with a woman so I can't be gay again, stupid. I'm just going to call it how it is. That's a really stupid way of thinking because straight people aren't told that they need to straight like they need to sleep with both genders to prove their straight, like their straightness or their heterosexuality. They just often sleep with the opposite gender and that's that.
Like, there's no question there because that's quote and quote the way it's supposed to be. And that's obviously not right. Your feelings and your patterns matter. And just because you've slept with one or haven't slept with the other doesn't mean you're invalidated on either side. So let's not gaslight ourselves into this either.
You could again, be a huge lesbian and have never slept with a woman and know that you would be absolutely hopeless at doing so the first time few times you've done it, although you probably wouldn't be. And again, it doesn't mean that you're not gay or that you questioning yourself is not 100% valid. And then the third one, which I think keeps people in a space of not speaking up or not acknowledging themselves and their thoughts and feelings is
what if I changed my mind? And it kind of relates back to just what I said there about Myth 2. Changing your mind is absolutely fine. Sexuality can evolve. Lord knows I hope mine doesn't.
And I've said this multiple times and it may be quote UN quote heterophobic of me. If I woke up tomorrow on top of everything else that we all deal with in daily life and questioned that I might start be liking starting to like men again, that would probably send me into the biggest fucking crash out a person could ever experience. I have no shame in saying that, but obviously my struggle of that is very different to the generalized societal struggle of
it being on the other end. But of course, sexuality can evolve. You're allowed to change, you're allowed to learn, and you're allowed to explore your thoughts and your feelings without guilt or without having to put yourself in a box or put yourself in a room with a massive barricaded door to lock that door up and then Chuck the key through the letterbox and have to stay there forever.
You may be in a relationship right now with a man that's unhappy for multiple reasons, your sexuality being one of them. You may leave that man, go and date a woman for two years and then you and her break up for whatever reason, which I will warn you, where lesbians are concerned, there is quite literally no reason that we couldn't be able to bring to life.
And then six months after that, meet someone at a bar who happens to be a man and think to yourself, fuck, actually, I wasn't a lesbian, I was just bi or I'm queer. And it wasn't just me being gay, it was the relationship not being right. And you can completely fall for that guy and that's absolutely fine. As I've said, touch wood. You can hear me touching wood here. That never happens to me.
But if it does, I'd like to think that having practised what I preach, I'd be able to deal with it with some ounce of grace. It would be more for me giving up an identity which I fought so hard to be so comfortable in. I would struggle with the unpicking of that. But of course I'm also, I would hope they're opposed enough to know that it's absolutely fine and we all do grow and change and I would hope my friends still accept me.
My now would probably fucking love it, but let's not go there. But yeah, here's the thing with like queerness. It's not about ticking boxes. It is quite literally about listening to yourself. Not your fears, not what your mum wants, not what your friends want or they're doing in their life with their potential happy marriages or unhappy marriages that they pretend they're happy and they're four kids or they're
10 dogs. It's about you and how you feel and not what anyone else or the world expects of you. I feel like I've rambled a bit as always, but I hope this has been useful to anyone who is living with this everyday. I lived with it from I think when I reached more consciousness about relationships and sexuality and, and sex and, and all of those things, which probably like at the age of 13, let's be honest, it, it happens a lot younger.
And I struggled with that for four years and it was a really long four years. And even though that feels like a really long time ago, I remember it eating me up every single day. It would be on my mind, taking up a huge proportion of my thinking, my feelings and my doings and the way that I navigated myself in the daily. And it wasn't a very nice place to be. And so if you're young and you're listening to this and you feel like that, I'm sorry and you will be OK.
But I do think there's a bigger element to this as well, which is the element of those that are in their mid 30s, late 30s, forties, fifties, 60s, whatever that is. And you've had to live with that niggle a lot longer. You are seen and you will be heard and you're not outside of this community just because you're not jumping up inside this community. I wanted to Createspace today and kind of talk through some of those things that I think a lot
of you listening. What are the conversations that you will just be having with yourself on the daily? And I know that it can be super exhausting and sad and a really scary place to be. And this episode isn't about telling anyone or coaxing anyone to make decisions or to come out. It is just actually about that recognition and allowing yourself to go on that journey. And if you go on that journey and decide to do nothing with going on that journey, then that's OK.
It is may be a sad thing, I hope no one would listening to this would go through their whole lives not being able to accept who they are and live true to who they are. But it's not here to coax anyone out of the closet or make anyone's experience of staying in the closet invalid. I just wanted to create a space where we can talk about it and I would love to obviously hear more. So to wrap up today's episode, how do you know if you are a
lesbian? And truly, I think we've got a cross that there is no one answer. There's lots of categories and tick boxes if we're going to have a joke about it that you can go through. But one thing I will leave this episode on is that if you are asking the question, and if you're wondering if you're turning it over in your mind, hoping that there's a space for that truth, then yeah, you may be.
And you're not weird and you're not broken and you're not faking it. You are basically just trying to find your way home to yourself that probably you haven't LED yourself astray from, that the world has kind of LED yourself astray from. And I think that's something worth honouring and worth giving yourself grace for. And if you think you can, maybe one day giving yourself the strength to act on. So thank you for listening today to the Lesbian Supper Club podcast.
And if this has resonated with you, please also send it to someone else that you think may need it. Please leave a review, share this on your stories, come talk to us about it in the DMS. You don't have to be a certain way to be valid. And until next time, lesbians and questioning lesbians, questioning buys questioning queer people. Stay soft, stay curious, and stay potentially queer. Love you all, goodbye.