Vulnerability S2 | Ep 2

Keeley appreciates Roy's press conference . Jamie meets Ted at the bar and tells him he is awesome , great , okay , terrible , it's all shit Ted . Sam sees Jamie and Ted on Twitter and cusses at Ted . Roy brings his own fruity language as a pundit but enjoys being back in the game . In a way , dr Sharon and Ted finally connect a bit .

This episode ends with Jamie running onto the pitch as snow begins to fall in AFC Richmond .

We're excited to jump to a number of different topics with our special guest , Lucy Broadbent .

We got a copy right away and we were impressed with her research and writing on the positive psychology used in the show . We are excited to say hello to Lucy Bravent . Hey , lucy , hi , hello .

Writing what Ted Lasso , what would Ted Lasso do ? We'd love for you to share that story with our audience on kind of how that whole , the whole book came to be and the story about , maybe , the situation in the parking lot .

Anyway , I'm sitting there in the parking lot and I'm actually not even moving and someone scrapes the side of my car and Ted Lasso comes immediately to mind and I think , instead of leaping out and yelling at the person , I just did a sort of a sort of an odd moment and I thought , okay , what would Ted Lasso do in this circumstance ?

Because ultimately I knew he would be kind . So I tried a different tack to my usual kind of cursing , and it was awfully nice , in the way that you know , brits quite sometimes can be and in the way that Ted Lasso always is .

And so I was awfully nice and it was the right thing to do because it was a little old lady and you know it wasn't that bad is . And so I was awfully nice and it was the right thing to do because it was a little old lady and , um , you know it wasn't that bad . But the thing that was surprising to me ultimately was how it made me feel .

Walking away , that's , that was the key thing . So , instead of being all riled up and angry about , car I actually felt really good about myself . I I felt , oh good , I actually handled that quite nicely and I feel good about it . And that got me thinking about other aspects . I found myself thinking about how Ted Lasser would react in certain circumstances .

You know , he's standing in the checkout line in the supermarket . He is nice and courteous to the checkout . He would engage in conversation .

I'm a kind of chatty person anyway , um , but that was what got me going down that avenue and , um , I'm a , my background is journalism , um , and I used to work for newspapers and we'd we'd used to always write speeches around tv shows that everybody is watching and I could see it formulating . And , um , before I knew it , there was the idea for a book .

I mean , if you extrapolate all of the things , there's so much actually in the tv show that you can turn into a book , as you yourselves know absolutely that that's so .

But yours was very much around the positivity , you know , and the psychology of Ted Lasso , which I loved , whereas ours focused on leadership and there were so many other avenues that we could have gone down before .

But what I liked about what would Ted Lasso do is that each chapter you picked a big theme to think about , and one of the most powerful ones , I think , is vulnerability , especially for the episode that we're talking about here .

So in the middle of you know , we're at season two , episode two , and amidst change , and change is hard , right , we've got Jamie going from reality TV to begging to get a job back .

Nate is dealing with the promotion of his you know , his own promotion and then yelling at Will for putting lavender in the , you know , to calm the players down when they're about to go take on a soccer or football match .

Higgins is changing offices , roy hasn't quite figured out life after the pitch and Ted is having to deal with Dr Sharon as an influence on the team . So we'll actually start with . I'll let Nick reference the scene that I want to talk about with Dr Sharon and therapy in general .

Any thoughts on how leaders , or anyone , can encourage openness to seeking professional support , like therapy , while still fostering , you know , strong supportive team dynamics ? How do you see that ? How do you see that , that tension playing out , you know , between the sport network and therapy ?

I think talking about mental health was sort of almost a taboo subject and as leaders you know you in a lot of businesses nobody talks about it . I think that's still true . Then it becomes almost like a buzzword , Maybe too far , but the point about a TV show is that it normalizes it . A long time ago , I interviewed some of the producers of Modern Family .

Modern Family which normalized gay couples , modern Family , modern Family which normalized gay couples , and it was a very significant moment in TV shows . I'm so pleased we got there Because it normalized it . So Ted Lasso , I think , normalizes the idea of talking about mental health .

There he is with Rebecca and although they've got to turn it into something that's funny , um , and there is with Rebecca and that they're saying , you know , oh , I wouldn't touch therapy , I wouldn't which mimics so much of what a lot of people really think .

Um , you know , it's terrifying and I think that it received the show received a lot of as well as critical acclaim for its show business , but a claim from therapists themselves who were so grateful that and they felt that it was a really realistic representation of what a lot of people go through going to therapy .

They're resistant , they're frightened , and these are perfectly normal reactions . And so , in terms of leadership , when you're in a business , um , you know it , the point is to just keep talking , isn't it , um ? And so Rebecca and and Ted do eventually come to terms with it , and it's helpful to both of them when we see that outcome .

So therefore , it's helpful to everybody . I mean , I think that is my answer Keep talking .

So it helps us see the flaws in our own emotional intelligence while while the show is going on and we're all just kind of smacking ourselves in the head . Really , yeah , um , you also wrote the book lioness or panda . Uh , I think that was well .

That was one of my favorite scenes in season one , uh , where you know , rebecca is walking out to the car and keely's asking you know , ted , if , if she would be a lion or a panda . My favorite part of that is Jamie saying coach , I'm me . Why would I want to be anybody else ?

So , but your book focused on relationship with women and themselves in and out of work .

Um , and so when in this season , jamie is who for sure was a lion , right , like his attitude was lying all season one he walks into the bar to see Ted , um , because he wants to beg for his job back , and when Ted asks him how he's doing , he says great , awesome , terrible , awful . It's all shit , Ted , ted .

That might be the first time I've ever cussed on a podcast , so I don't . We're probably breaking youtube right now how you been uh awesome best pretty good okay , a little depressed yeah it's all she did .

So is he a panda or is he doing the brave work of a lion , or is that like , how do you see that as you looked up the differences between sort of the representation of the panda and lion ?

Eventually , he's honest and he drops his facades . Is that being a lion to drop your facade and be vulnerable ? I think that it is . Actually , I think there is strength in when we talk about people , whether they're lions or pandas , lions , you're talking about strength ultimately .

You know , rebecca describes it at the very beginning um , uh lines that you're talking about strength .

Ultimately , you , you , you know you , she , rebecca describes at the very beginning it's all about being the rule of the jungle , um and um , strength , um , and so then I guess the question is in that instance , regarding Jamie , if he goes through the full gamut of emotions , but ultimately he's sharing what he's really being , and you're talking about vulnerability

there , and I think that that is one of the themes of the shows .

That's a running theme too , and Sarah Niles , who plays Dr , dr sharon , has talked about that , that she really wanted a um role in which vulnerability was part of the play , and um , and how brené brown has spoken often that vulnerability is strength , um , and so , rather than I mean you know you can do it lioness or panda , I I turned it into a female thing

because I thought it was a , it was a female uh moment . But um , we're all , we're all of these things , aren't we at all ? Various different times , um , and how do you move forward ? Uh , in , you know , to our own advantage ?

I think you kind of recognise where you are , perhaps , and that's where you can really start to move forward , recognising being vulnerable , being honest , and that is what ultimately wins Teddo . In Jamie's case , ted's won over by that and and um , and gives him a place back and jamie gets to where he get . Jamie gets his second chance .

So I think have I answered the question ?

That is again not even though the book was really about , you know , kind of the relationship between Keely and Rebecca and the supporting of women in their relationships . But we also saw Keely supporting Roy in his football punditry thing .

Right , it's like wanting him to become a football pundit and there's this balance between strength and softness in how Keeley has to approach Roy and how Roy has to think about it himself . He kind of has to become vulnerable in a way , to to say , maybe I do want to be around football . So similarly like , is he Lion or Panda ?

He kind of runs through the gamut of emotions , I think on that whole scenario as well .

But I , I think that that's not really sort of not really the point really , um , um , I think softness and strength , it says it quite well . Actually , you know , and we , we're all like that and doesn't keely , isn't that what they say ?

What all women want to do when they want their husbands to to do something , is you , you , you coax them , uh , into thinking their idea all along , uh and um we won't have me thinking now let's see , hmm , that would all make sense so it's interesting that you say I had no intention of speaking of this .

We have , as I live in the middle of nowhere , we have a rural zoo up the street and there's a Z donk which is half zebra , half donkey , and it actually fades from striped to brown and it actually fades from striped to brown , and so I'm trying to picture what the panda lion looks like in my mind . So what was easier for you ?

You wrote what would Ted Lasso do first , and then you wrote lioness or panda second . Were you thinking there needed to be a second one ? Were just scenes popping out everywhere and you just couldn't cram them all into one book . What , uh , which was easier for you , or ? Or was are they both ?

Just both themes really popped up and you thought there was meat behind them um , well , I think .

Yeah , and you know know , there's so many positive psychology books , and the more I sort of looked into it , the more I could think , oh yeah , they're , they're advocating this , they are surely saying that . And then , um , so that was . That was a sort of an , almost an easy . It was an easy book to write , um , um .

The second one came along because , um , you will remember that the women's soccer so it's the end of season three ends with the suggestion of Rebecca , um of Kili to Rebecca on women's team , which may , of course , yet still prove to be seasons four . You know , who knows , who knows .

But at the same time , you know , the Women's World Cup was taking place and suddenly this , what was ? I got very caught up in Women's World Cup because I thought it was a phenomenal female story .

And then , at the same time , when they were filming the final seasons of Ted Lasso , the UEFA Cup was happening for women at the time and Britain's female football team , known as the Lionesses , won . So Britain would have been been absolutely . They were blown away by this . You know , um .

And so this was you know , this was at their home team winning at the ua cup final . It was astonishing , it was really big , and they were filming ted lasso at the time . That will not have been lost on the life of thought to myself . And so , no surprise , it sort of ends up in the last little bit .

And so then I find that the extraordinary story about how women were held back in female soccer . Women were not allowed , women were banned from playing soccer for 50 years , which is extraordinary . So I sort of I'm afraid I got on my high horse really , and there were so many .

I was always taken with the idea of how and both Hannah Waddingham and Junotemple talked about their characters how they met in the washroom and they're in a cast full of men and they expect the two female characters to be pitted against each other . So they then are thrilled and delighted when these characters play supporting , mentoring . One mentors the other .

They play supporting roles to each other . Um and um . That's a sort of . I have always been lucky in my life , but you know fantastic women who have mentored me and been kind to me , and you know I think that the television presents a world that's not actually true . In my work experience , women have been fantastic , um , and so that's not actually true .

In my work experience , Women have been fantastic , and so that's how I ended up writing how to Be a Lioness , which was really the female component to the show , which you know and you can just see it all the way through . You know they were doing something different .

I felt they were doing something different for the female characters and that was worth writing about , and you can turn that into all sorts of things things I may have got a bit too hung up on women's soccer , but we'll see you know it's funny , we , um , we do a uh .

We have a character assessment and and we always are , you know , amazed as we kind of talk through , I think rebecca is somewhat obvious and in a lot of the traditional attributes of a leader , but we're amazed at how many different attributes around good leadership principles keely demonstrates throughout the whole series .

I mean , she , it , she , it's , it's , it's , it's , it's . Eyeopening when you start really parsing , as Marnie and I do , every single episode , looking at it through a lens of leadership , because it's , it's not obvious , right at you , but as you kind of look through it , it's like , yeah , you know , that's exactly how I want to work with somebody .

And and you talk about the relationship between her and Rebecca , it's , I know , it's , I know my , I enjoyed it , my , my whole family , my son , my wife , enjoyed the relationship and seeing how that worked . But you , you brought up a little bit where season four might go and we talked about the women's league .

You know , and I think a lot of people when they think about , okay , is season four going to happen ? That , and you know , and I think a lot of people , when they think about , ok , is season four going to happen , that that seems to be the most popular prediction of where it might go . But I was curious , and we're both curious .

You've written the two books , obviously . Is there anything ? Is there a third book that's kind of percolating in your head that you're thinking about around Ted Lasso ? Or might there be with ?

Well , I think forgiveness is a theme that's a fairly obvious one , I think . I think that's the one that comes to mind . But I mean , what do you think ? What other things would you explore ?

Those are his strengths . But one of the things that Ted was terrible with was self-care right , because he was so busy helping others and being positive for others that he didn't take care of himself .

So we definitely think there are a lot of self-help and we think that , you know , our number one rule in the book is everyone is a leader or his leadership is life , and everyone is a leader and it's that personal leadership that matters and that just so blends into self-help that I think that's a thread that runs through it .

I think we're at the early stages where people are considering mental health and you know , it's a new thing , it's you know in the last decade isn't it ? so where is it ? Where are we all going to be in the next 10 years ? And that's really interesting . Uh , how are we all going to improve it ? I would hope that . You know we all .

There's so much more now that we're so much more aware of um . You know , 30 years ago no one really bothered thinking about exercise . You know um , and now it's all part of the natural conversation . It's right , everyone understands if you want to stay fit , you exercise .

But I think for my parents , that generation , I didn't think they actually thought about that . Wellness wasn't a term , it just wasn't . So now here we all are and what you know , leadership places are waking up to it . Where and where is that going to lead next ? That's what I'm curious to know . You know we all want to see it the future , don't we ?

So if there was a trick play slash life hack called the Lucy Broadbent , what would that be ?

You left the scene feeling better than you did when you got there . That's , that is a life hack . That's in the world of mental health . That's a way better way to handle that .

I , I don't shy away from saying it , I've been published with traditional publishers . Before um the book came back , I had the idea of it . I pitched it to several publishers uh , book publishers . They , uh they , we didn't know when season three was coming out .

Um , I had the CEO of a publishing company on the phone with three days of me pitching the idea , so I knew I was on to something . Um , and but , and but .

Then he having got all excited and I'm sort of like spending all the oodles of advance he was going to give me , obviously , and I could see him talk himself out of it , he said , he said the problem is we don't know when season three is and I could , uh , I might not . You know , season three could come out and I couldn't have my book published .

It takes me , as a traditional book publisher , a very long time to um bring out a book . Um , he said , of course you could self-publish in half the time , or even no time at all . And I thought I gave up on the idea , didn't think about it , and then it kept annoying me and I thought , okay , I'm gonna look into this . So that's how I did it .

And all every single step of the way I thought , thank god , you're out of your depth really . I had no idea what I was doing . Um and um . I mean it sounds really hokey to say it , but you do have to have a certain and go . I can't tell . That's it said . Believe , he's telling me to believe . So I got myself a sign .

You know , I I paid for an editor who ran off with my money . I mean , I did everything wrong that you could possibly do . And there's , you know , all all this instruction on launch dates and so on . I didn't have launch dates . It went out with a sort of like a whimper rather than a bang , you know .

But still , here I am and I've sold an awful lot of copies which I really had very low expectation . I mean , there's a catchphrase have low expectations and you'll be pleasantly surprised .

I'd be very proud if I were you . That's , that's really neat well , it's been fun .

Um and um , uh , there's a I mean some , some fantastic people I've met , including the lovely day lady who does Ted Lasso tools . She's a gem . And so , anyway , I have another wonderful woman who runs Canva , who does Canva workshops , and she's a Ted Lasso enthusiast .

Lucy , thank you for taking the time to join us . This has been great today .

It's just best to get advice from 22 year olds because they know all the answers . And I suggested the book and she said no , mom , like that's , it's just a TV show , it's going to pass . You can't write a book on it .

And I said , little miss , since you're currently staying in my house , you are going to watch the first three episodes , and then you come talk to me about whether or not we should write this book . And I went out grocery shopping and took a walk and I come back into her dancing , yelling Roy Kent , roy Kent is here , he's there , he's everywhere , roy Kent .

And I said and there you go . So now , what do you think ? She's like oh , yeah , you guys need to write this book . So so she saw then that like , yeah , this is , there's a spirit behind this show and the community . I mean to hop on Facebook and see a group of 86,000 people that are dissecting every bit of Ted Lasso .

And then , finally , I walked into a local gift shop and I saw a book about Schitt's Creek and and I thought I think Ted Lasso definitely has more meat on its bones in terms of the whole world wanting to be better because of this show .

And and then , as we did more and more research and we ran across the likes of lucy broadbent's , of the world and all these different communities and the lasso verse , we're like , oh my goodness , there is , there is . People feel the same way that we felt about the show when we watched it and we thought we're like oh my goodness , there is , there is .

People feel the same way that we felt about the show when we watched it and we thought we were like the only people in the world , you know , besides our inner circles , that really like the show and it was like , wow , this is what a what a great bunch of people , because you know , they share those same ideals of positivity and vulnerability and all the things

that the show brought across to to viewers , and it was just awesome yeah , isn't it ?

But I am a little bit nervous for the season four because you can have something really brilliant and , you know , I hope it's as good , you know , because they've got something that's really magic and I would hate them to be having to stretch it out and eke it out and lose some of that , dilute it .

At least that's my hope and my thought process .

So before we go , and thank you so much , tell folks is Amazon the best place to find your books ? It's where I found them , but are you self-published and have it on your website ?