It's time to talk for it's time for the show. You hear this song on the radio, It's better racks fast. Let me get that photograph. Sports talk Radio starting now and what's up everybody, and welcomed episode one hundred and ninety six. Let me get that potograph. My name, of course is Drew or the d eight. She joining me my awesome co host, missus scot Rappa fo what's up, buddy? What's going on? Man? So A lot a lot? Yeah, I will say, you know what,
dude, I'm so's episode one ninety six. I have a little bit pissed off at the NFLPA right now. Yeah, because episode they could have waited like four more weeks to pull this shit. Yeah, it would have made for a great two hundredth episode. Oh yeah, no, big absolutely, But we would have needed a couple of days in advance to have, you know, to get like a good panel on, you know, to
really discuss it. Because but yeah, it would have been nice if they had thought of us a little bit, especially since I know someone that works there. Well, we would have had we would have had the panel already set up, yeah for that And now it's like a crap and nobody, and nobody wants to go on and you know, talk about it because nobody knows, you know, And let me rephrase that, nobody who knows anything
right is going to come on and discuss what's going on. Yes, absolutely, but we have a speculation exactly, and we're gonna be speculating the hell out of it too. We do have some updates though, that have popped out. We will get to that in a little while. But I do want to say that we had we had one other segment that we were gonna do, right, and we're still gonna do it because that's how we roll.
So if you guys want to hear our take on the NFLPA and Panini and all the crap that's going on that's happened in the last you know, twenty four hours, you're gonna have to wait. Yeah, I have to wait a few minutes because this would have been this would have actually been the story of the month. Yeah, I think so, had had that not happened. And for those that don't know, I'm talking about some flawless NBA cases that were opened. Yes that cards that have appeared that appeared in these
cases have already appeared and been sold elsewhere. Yep, we've got resealed, flawless cases. And now this isn't like the situation where we had that duplicate Mark Jackson one of them where the patch was different. No, these are the exact cards. Yes, these are the exact cards, so Drew, why don't you get into the details on that. Yeah, absolutely, So this was originally pulled by well, it was originally pulled I believe, yes, Okay, So it was sold on eBay's version or China's version of eBay.
It's cardhobby dot com of it's a very popular auction site, especially for people overseas. It was sold on July first. It was a Brook Lopez National Treasures RPA patch. Then it was pulled from a break a month and two weeks to the date. Yeah, yeah, six weeks exactly later, on August fifteenth, twenty twenty three, it was pulled in yet another break. So and since then they've also found because this was from multiple cases, I think they found now over ten cards that have been sold that were in
these boxes and these boxes, which this is the kicker. You know, it's easy to reseal, for someone to make a fake case and reseal it and sell it to just another breaker, you know, just a nobody type of deal. But this was actually these cases were sold to this breaker and he provided the purchase slip from David Adams. Which that's what makes this so much different than someone at home just making a case, sealing it up like
crap and then pawning it off on a breaker who knows no better. This is a group, this is a company who literally has air quote here, experts that look at this stuff. And yet multiple fake cases just too that we already know of. We're sold by David Adams. Okay, now I do want to preface this with we have the purchase receipt that's been shown. You've got the cases that were obviously resealed because cards that came out of them
were you know, we're sold prior to this break actually happening. Yes, what we don't know is and this is this is you know the tricky part.
Were those the ex act cases that David Adams shipped? Now it's very possible that the guy is sitting on X number of cases, Yeah that you know, it's possible David Adams shipped them different cases than what we're open without seeing and I haven't seen the full video without seeing the full video of him, and he would even have to open the actual case box and not just the boxes. Then they'd be able to match up, you know, the
numbers to see if they were those actual cases. There's a way to find that out, but only if he did that on video, which putting that massive box on video right a little difficult to do. But but this is a very reputable person in the hobby. And the big telling point on these was the seal on National Treasure's boxes. It's very, very very easy to tell the seal. It gets plainly obvious on these. It looked like they
had a little a little try and made it made it too perfect. It made it so the seal wasn't visible at all, so you couldn't there basically was no seal, almost like it was vacuum sealed or something. It was. It was different. Yeah, it was a different seal altogether. And then add in the fact that the Brooklopez is there, it's the same one
it's put in. Then they find other cards that were sold on these multiple different platforms, and you know, that's basically how it was found out that these were sealed now you know, David Adams, they buy tons off the secondary market, right always. But I go back to this, they have experts. This is not selling like me just buying a case at a show and then selling it to the hobby shop that I sell cases to all the time. This is a company that literally provides, I mean basically almost really
a guarantee that what you should be expecting is legitimate, real product. And this stuff's getting by them. I mean, come on, there are so many years on so many different levels with this particular item and how to unpack it because again there's a lot that we don't know, you know, where did I'm pretty sure that it wasn't David Adams that resealed the back. No,
I'm saying, but you know who did they buy it from? And and honestly having having a card that's sold on we'll call it Chinese eBay because it's like it's just easier to say it that way. Yeah, for to have a card sold on Chinese eBay and then shipped to whoever purchased it and have it show up in a reap in a resealed case six weeks later,
yeah, probably even probably even shorter than that. In China too. Yeah, so the card got shipped from the person who bought it, got resealed in the case, sold to David Adams, shipped to China, and then open and then open all within a six weeks. Yes, so I don't know something about that timeline. No, especially knowing how long it takes stuff to get back and forth and right, you know it all the process behind it and things like that. That is a very short period of time.
Well, I mean that shows me that this is an active This isn't a one off type of you know, just spream an idea. This is an actual like operation. This shows me that this is not These are not the only two cases. At least, if I had to put all my money that I have on one of the sides, I'm putting it on the fact that this is an operation. If you're able to get that out and get that done that quick, I mean, obviously you don't care about selling the
case to David Adams at they're low buying price. You know, they're I think they're offering to pay seventeen hundred, which is crazy low, but you'd expect it to be for them. But if it's a resealed case, that you know you're making bank on anyway. Yeah, if you got ducks, you've got three hundred bucks where the cards in there? Exactually, you know, selling for seven hundred is it's a great deal. So I firmly believe
that this is part of an operation. And I think these are the same type of people that are probably involved in the trimming stuff in the in all of the scandals and the type of stuff that we have seen in a long time. I absolutely think these people are connected. They work together. Yeah, I'll put my tinfoil hat on if I need to, But I mean this screams to me operation, and it looks like they it looks like they
figured out a way to funnel them through David Adams. Now, I know the people and Blowout and the Blowout detectives, who are the best in the world are probably gonna scrutinize David adams sales and boxes and anything they can to death and find out information that I wouldn't even know how to find. And maybe we'll get more information on this, but it seems like they found a
way to funnel these cases through David Adams. Yeah, and that's the honestly, that's the disturbing part, right because typically, you know, David Adams, blow out Steel City, Chicagoland, any of the other major distributors and things like that, You've always had that feeling of safety when you buy the products from them. Yeah, is that it's it's legit, it's you know, it's gonna come, it's not it hasn't been opened, it hasn't been
tampered with. And now all of a sudden that's not the case anymore. Yeah, So hopefully not only David Adams, but also you know every other one that I mentioned is going to go through and you know, look at all the cases and things like that that they've purchased on the secondary market, not from a distributor, not from you know, direct, and really scrutinize you know, everything they've got that falls into that category and says, okay,
well, you know, is this good? Is this sketchy? I mean, this isn't high end stuff, dude, This isn't you know, this isn't origins, this isn't chronicles, this is flawless. This is a lot of money. I mean, you've got to be able to make sure that those are legit. Shit like that cannot slide by and it's not the
first time. I mean, as soon as I posted something on socials this week talking about that and multiple people commenting about their own experiences of getting resealed boxes other issues with David Adams. This is not their first go around with all this, which makes it all the more concerning and just baffles me how they still remain one of the biggest, you know, secondary market distributors out there. Yeah, I'm still a little in shock that this was able to,
you know, be pulled off in the first place. Me too. In six weeks especially, that's that's a that's a massively efficient organization. That's and that's the crazy part is it's the whole this was done in you know, in and it had to be less than six weeks because you know, all the other cards that got you know, they were sold and shipped off. Six weeks is the beginning to end of when the Brook Lopez sold as
an individual card and when it appeared. I'm assuming that's probably the last card they bought, because I can't see him buying them later because now I'd have to look. There is details of windows were sold, but I would assume that's the last card it had to have been because like, like we said, you've got a six week turnaround time and international shipping multiple times yea,
and chances are the cases are being you know, they're being overnighted. Oh yeah, of course, something of that value is always gonna be overnight, so I mean you're not looking at but still overnight international it's usually like two days. But the like, how many dry runs did they have to go through to get the ceiling or the receiling of this right? Well they didn't get it right, I mean, but the big problem they did fail. So maybe you know, this might have been their first run, which makes
it even scarier. If this was their first run, they got it by David Adams with a seal that was blatantly obvious, not the exact same every other flawless case they would see. And hopefully, hopefully David Adams has a record of that exact case and who they bought it from, because that is going to be the undoing of it. But did they buy a whole bunch of cases from a whole bunch of people and they all got mixed in together and they don't know where they which one sold them, which would not put
it past them. One bit. And frankly, if I if I were in there's I don't know if I, you know, if I bought twenty cases from twenty different people, you know, over the course of a you know, a couple week period, I don't know if I would mark each one of those cases as to which one came from which person. You know, they'd go into a stack with all the other sealed cases you know that I've got, And so I wouldn't fault them for not knowing if that's the
case. But if they only bought one or two during that during that time period, then you got it narrowed down who it is. Yeah. Yeah, But and no matter what I mean this, well, not necessarily, because they're gonna have to they're gonna have to send a check somewhere, they're gonna have to or wire money somewhere. There's got to be a real name
connected to it somehow. Yeah, we'll hopefully find out. Yeah, I hope so, because that's definitely disturbing when you know, high end product like that on like I said, one of the biggest secondary markets in the world. When it's able to be on there that quick, that easily, that's that's a problem for the hobby, and that's a problem for a lot of
buyers. And so being all I can say right now is if you're buying high end, at least from David Adams, I would stay away from basketball, and I would probably check some of my cases before I bought them. I would probably buy only buy them in person. At at this moment, I mean, yeah, And as far as we know, there haven't been any other cases from any other you know, any of the other distribution was twenty twenty two, so that's the year that it was too. It's not
multiple years yet. It is twenty twenty one, twenty two, which is obviously a big year for Flawless. But well, but I don't think twenty two twenty three Flawless has come out yet, right, That's what I'm saying. So, but I'm saying it hasn't trickled down into you know, Luca Year and all that stuff, and that we know that we know, yeah, that we know of that we know of yet. But we'll see what
happens with that. But now, Scott drum Roll, time to get to the topic that I think everyone in the world probably wants to well, is speculating about and talking about and guys, like I said, this is gonna be we're gonna preface this. Thank you guys who were tuning in on YouTube, but we're gonna preface this with this is obviously a lot of speculation. There are updates. We do have some updates. I have spoken with some
people and some updates have come out publicly. We'll get to those here shortly. But there's gonna be a lot of speculation involved here. As of course, we're talking about the big news that drop yesterday and sent the hobby war throwed into a frenzy with the NFL Players Association yanking the license from Pannini a good three years early and giving it immediately. And this is very important and I'll get to that in a moment. Giving it immediately two fanatics, yep,
Now this is this creates a problem. So as of right now, just so wee time stamped for those that are listening on the podcast when it comes you know, the audio comes out in a couple of days or you know, within a day or whatever. It is eleven twenty four am Central Time on Tuesday, the twenty second. Yeah, so as of right now, Pannini has not filed anything as far as a counter you know, lawsuit or anything like that to put an injunction on the NFLPA pulling the contract.
I expect them to. I also expect was getting to that. I was gonna say that they are most likely, you know, the lawyers are most likely working on the language in that right now, and I would not shock me if it is filed at some point today. I was gonna say, by the time this audio gets out, I would assume that it would be. Yeah, now, this thing that just gets weirder and weird about the
minute. So the Players Association pulls the contract, and they didn't give a reason as to why, they just made a statement that they did it. And so at that point, the only reason they'd be or the only way they'd be able to end the contract early is if Pennini violated the terms of the contract in some way. Yes, now, before you do go on
with that. These contracts are full of massive loopholes and are normally very poorly written, which is how athletes like we were talking about with the bow Nickel situation, are able to get away with contracts if they have them, which we still don't know on bo but they're able to get away with not signing
for thirteen years. There are tons of loopholes in these contracts. Yeah, so somewhere along the line, Players Association found a loophole and we should and the Players Association is does have an equity stake in Fanatics, thank you. So not a surprise that, you know, they were trying to get out of it earlier, because there's more money at Steak with Fanatics than there is
with Panini. And that's what I've been saying for a long time that Panini should have sold, you know, as soon as they lost the contracts, because the period of time for Fanatics to make more money shrinks every you know, every day. Well, I think also what kicked off all of this, I mean, let's be honest, is Panini rebuking that first deal. I think that when Fanatics tried to buy them and Panini initially and Panini said, you know, thought, hey, we're gonna be able to fight this,
we can fight the beast. I think when they said no, that's when the gloves came off. And that I mean you kind of see it in the timeline around when that was initially said. Than what happens to Mint et cetera et cetera. Now we're here. Now we've got the NFL Players Association doing something, and that makes things a little bit interesting though, because and that might be the reason why Panini hasn't filed for an injunction yet that
brings up a tampering case as well. Because so if that is the case that, you know, because Panini rebuked the deal, all of a sudden, you see things like this happening, it could be argued that Fanatics is tampering with their business right and if that can be especially with the Players Association having an equity stake, you know, within Fanatics, that brings up you know, there's collusion involved. There's I mean, if you look at the
timeline, it matches up perfectly. Once again, just just saying if that is a reason, I do want to read before we go any further. First, the NFL players Association's statement for those of you that haven't heard it, so, it says NFL Players ant is terminated as trading card agreement with Panini, effective immediately. Fanatics has the exclusive right to make NFLPA branded trading cards. This decision has no impact on any individual players contractual agreements with Pani.
If you represent any any players with an existing Panini agreement. The NFLPA recommends I hate that they use that word. Yeah, that you encourage I hate that the players to fulfill his contractual commitments to Pani. If you have any questions, please contact or adact it. This was sent out to all agents and people like that. Right and now I'm gonna go ahead. Another update, Panini actually did release a statement this morning. Yes, so this
is the statement that they had released. We believe this was totally unwarranted and improper action by the NFL Players Association in conjunction with Fanatics, especially in light of the unprecedented sales by Panini of NFL trading cards. Panini has grown the category of sports trading cards by over a thousand percent since two thousand and nine
to the benefit of all concerned. We believe the only party who benefits from this action by the NFL Players Association is fanatics and not the players, the leagues, or consumers. We note that, in addition to the NFL Players Association license, Panini has licenses with the NFL and over three hundred and sixty individual players. Panini will honor all of its contractual obligations that was just want to give credit. That was posted by Darren Rovel this morning, very early,
so he must have been up all night working on that. Yeah, yeah, he didn't sleep last night. So and now Panini's statement brings up kind of where I wanted to go next. So now let's just say that Fanatics is successful in sneaking away the Players Association license early and is able to make Players Association licensed cards. Yes, Panini still owns the NFL contract.
And yeah, so now all of a sudden, you have a situation where Fanatics would be making players or you know, cards with players that don't have team logos or team names, kind of like Panini was doing with baseball up until the players, which look everybody bitched and moaned about all I'm never not buying Panini baseball because it's unlicensed, and I hate the term unlicensed because it is licensed. It is, yet just by the Players Association, not buy
in the league. So now all of a sudden you have so you have that situation, but then you have Panini, who has the NFL license. They're able to make cards using the logos and team names but not the players. Yeah, so well it well, but here's the but here's the thing that here's the thing that I don't think I have never heard anybody mentioned this before. As far as I know, I'm the only person that is bringing
this up. If Panini is not able to produce the quantity of cards and the number of sets per the NFL contract, the NFL can then claim that Pennini has violated the terms of the contract because they're not producing to the level that they are supposed to buy the contract right and then pull the contract, well, they can, but Panini also has to pay for that contract, and they pay for they pay a decent amount like that they actually have to
pay in And I wouldn't pay a damn scent to that at this moment.
But I mean, you're you're absolutely right. I don't know what's going to happen with It's so weird if we do have cards, because there's multiple different situations that can come out of this, and if we do have cards, they're all gonna be some type of unlicensed And as you can see right here and Darren Ravelle's tweet earlier, he's even stating that the NFL Players Association is saying that Pannini is no longer considered having a group relationship, and when you
don't have that group relationship, you can't put out a product with more than five players in it. So there's that's where the Union looks at these agreements
with Pania, and it's well, and it's not just Panini. I do want to point out that Dez Bryant, who is a member of the Players Association, was going to release a trading card product of his own, and I believe he was going to launch it at a fantasy football event coming up in the couple of weeks, and the Players Association sent him a little reminder and I'll use air quotes reminder email that hey, if you've got six or more players you know that are represented in this set, you can't do it
without a license. Yeah. So they're and they're saying that's one of their members. So at least they're at least they're being fair across the board, you know, and how they're and how they're coming after things. But I'm wondering if this was the first shot. I'm wondering if the language in the Players Association contract with Panini gave them different outs and different loopholes than were present
in the NFL contract. Yeah, but by losing the Players Associate that would really really in the you know, Panini's ability to produce cards with players on them will have an effect that will give the NFL the chance to pull their license early as well. Well. I think that's one thousand percent what their
angle was on this. I think one it was to pull that license, make it to where it looks like, okay, look at the landscape and what we're talking about, look at what your options are here, and then also have, like you said, pull that language in the contract where the NFL could essentially do the exact same thing, or if not, that even forced Panini to say, Okay, now it's equity is incredibly small. Do we just move it? You know, like we do we try and do
something with it. So I absolutely think that that was their reasoning and doing
it. My biggest issue with the NFL Players Association on this, and I have a big issue with this, is I one thousand percent believe that unless with a couple of things I'm going to talk about later, unless some of this is true, if they just straight up decided to find some loophole and there wasn't a legit reason Panini didn't do anything you know that would legitimately violate and give them reason to say, hey, let's cut ties to cut ties
and immediately give it to a company that you have a greater financial incentive to give it to. Yeah, that is a fucked up way to negotiate, especially for a company that is a group that is literally all they do is negotiate. I mean, that's all the Players of the Association is, and that's how you're going to handle things. If even if I'm fanatics, I'm looking at it and saying, well, shit, I know we can't be
beating any other thing. But if someone comes along with billions of dollars Jeff Bezos or someone wants to you know, decide to jump in in a decade, what's to say they're not going to do it to us? Like, how does the NFL look at this and say, damn, they're gonna pull
this? What are they gonna pull it? Negotiations Like that's a that's a messed up way of doing things, and that like I have a major problem with how the NFL Players Association put this out and they're wording with they recommend that you encourage your players to fulfill their contractual obligations, basically saying they don't have to, but please do, instead of, you know, firmly saying, make sure your dudes own up to their ship. Yeah, and I
think they and they could have said that they should. I think the only reason they put the language in there as they did was so Panini couldn't come
after him and say that they didn't. Hey, you're tampering. You're tampering not only with your contract, but you're tampering with three hundred and sixty in the dual player contracts, you know, and it's giving the They still want to give the players the impression that their individual contracts have nothing to do with the players Association contracts, which they don't, and and happened that that's there.
I do want to point out, though, that we don't know what the hill is going on, Like, we don't know what's going to happen with you know, the cards that are like their cards that have been produced,
they just haven't release. There's Well, that's what I wanted to get to because I've spoken with the NFL Players Association and I've also I've spoken to some people at Pannini and Fanatics, but not to the level that I have at the Players Association and I asked one question, I said, and it was based off of Darren Ravelle, who was I think live with King Golden and he mentioned he said that he thinks that there won't be any NFL trading
cards this year. So I messaged the I message someone that I know in the Players Association. They got back to me there. I asked them one question. I said, I know you can't get into much detail, but is there a possibility that we go a year without having NFL football cards? And he said, there are multiple possibilities at this moment, but yes, that is an option. So there is the possibility that they cut off and
products that are already packed out everything do not get put out. Now, I will say, I do know that card shops have been build for Luminance and don rust Elite, and that's it. Everything else was to be build starting this week, and so I would assume Luminants, I would assume. I mean Panini has first off the line coming out today, so I'm assuming they're letting them unless they just decide to start doing refunds today. I haven't
heard that from card shops yet, but unless they start doing refunds. I would assume those products come out, but there is a very very good possibility that there's just a hard stop on NFL cards this year and there's nothing by anybody. I mean, yeah, Bowman can come out in your NIL deals and stuff like that, but in terms of NFL, no, it could be cut off and it that is a possibility depending on where this goes next. All right, so right now, I just pulled up a Ninia's website.
Right now, they've got twenty twenty two in cased that Yeah, it comes off line is live on Thursday, twenty twenty three. Elite, Yeah, is popping off. Now, that's the last that's been build to any lcs from now twenty twenty. Now here's the thing though, twenty twenty two products. So in case, I would assume that's gonna come out because it's a twenty twenty two product. But for Elite, I'm curious because the countdown is still on. It's still on the website. As you know. First
off Line is coming out in a couple of days. We're gonna have to keep an eye on that because what's going to determine on if they file that in junction, which I think they're going to by the time this episode hits the pod waves. Oh, they have and they have to. But well, if and whether both here's a question, is it going to be a
successful injunction? Right? That's gonna you know, and it's very possible a judge may have a conversation with both sides and it may take a week to come to a decision on whether or not he's going to issue an injunction to force the Players Association to honor the terms of the contract with Panini. Yeah. Now, I can also report that distributors were set to have meetings with both Panini and Fanatics today and both companies did cancel those meetings with major distributors.
So it's a surprise that Fanatics would cancel it though. Yeah, NOI canceled just because, you know, just because you've got you know, they're not currently distributing any NFL products, right, so you know you would think the Fanatics is unless they're just trying to avoid questions. I'm sure that that's probably why. But to two reps that I know had meetings canceled from both
companies today that were scheduled meetings. Interesting, Yeah, I understand Panini canceling because they don't know what's going on, and they won't until it gets through it. But I guarantee this is going to court. Oh yeah, this is going to court, you know. And like I said, the question
is going to be how fast is a decision going to be made? And what happens if an injunction is not issued and the court you know, and then obviously it's gonna this may this may wind up wrapped up in court longer than the remaining term of the license agreement was supposed to be anyway, but imagine imagine going several years, because if an injunction is issued, Fanatic or Fanatics will not be able to produce Players Association license product, and Panini will
still remaining, you know, they'll produce their normal products. Yes it is, but the you know, if an injunction is not issued, how fast are we going to start seeing product from Fanatics? You know, they see a topschrome football with no team logos, no team names, basically what Bowman was back in twenty fourteen and stuff, you know, essentially minus team names. Yea, they always blurted out the Bowman helmets for some reason. I don't know why, but they always did that back in the day, and
maybe that's what it's going to look like. But I don't know. What's
going to happen with the cards is crazy. Now, I will say those Panini instant cards, was CJ. Stroud and all those other quarterbacks those cards depending on what happens if no cards are released, Yeah, those that set of Panini Instant cards, which is very low, is going to go down as one of the most notorious cards cards sets of the modern era, guaranteed if football shuts down, because it will be their only pro uniform cards that
they have as rookies. Yeah. And I just I'm trying to think of, like, what if if there's no football cards for the entire year, you know, and all of a sudden, you have, you know, some of the guys that just got drafted go off and have monster years. Yeah, what if c J. Stroud is the next Mahomes, the Gen Robinson coming out and just showing you, you know, doing and they don't and they don't have kie they don't have rookie cards. Yep. I don't imagine. Yeah, you know what, I mean, what's it going to
do? And they may not even have second year cards depending on how long this plays out. Well, I don't think that this is going to take long to play out. Actually I don't think because, and I say that because it's too big of a business. I could see it. I could see them halting it this year and taking through this year. I absolutely could see that. But I don't think it's going to take years and years. Well, but here's the thing. Fanatics has a fun you know, has
an incentive to drag it out as long as possible because it's nothing. It's not affecting their bottom line. Panini, on the other hand, does not. Well, it's not affecting their bottom line, but in a way it is because they've built out a Fanatics football team with ironically full offs Panini employees, but that entire football team, and in this new card of Fanatics, they want to make those cards. Trust me, they've invested a lot in
the fact that they're going to have those licenses. And so while it's not affecting what they expected their bottom line to be, Fanatics isn't some company that sits back and does nothing, you know, rue but at the same time, but at the same time, they are in a much better financial position where even if they have to pay these guys, you know, their salaries for the you know, a year or two. Yeah, it's not going
to hurt their bottom line at all. Well, Fanini, on the other hand, has a financial incentive to get this wrapped up as quickly as possible. But here's the other. Here's the other. How long you know, if the Players Association is successful in moving the contract, how long until the
NBA Players Association follow suit? Oh? If Well, it all depends on what ultimately the NFL's reasoning and the way they were if they truly are able to get out of this, you know, and a judge doesn't say no, you can't get out of it. If there was a way for them to weazle out of this contract this early, when Panini obviously fought it one thousand percent, the NBA is going to do it almost immediately, I would say, within two or three months, as soon as the reason that is
out and it's a legit reason, which I want to touch on a possibility here in just a minute, which goes back to their lawsuit that we talked about a couple of weeks ago. But if there is a legit reason for it, then yes, the NBA will follow suit almost immediately. All right, And before you get into that that reasoning, I do want to point out that in theory, yes, this should have no effect on any existing
redemptions that are outstanding. Those players. They're either going to sign it and return it as normal, as recommended of course by the Players Association, or they're not. Yeah, and odds are if they're not, it's got nothing to do with the Players Association. Move the contract. Yeah, it's because they're assholes. Yeah, you know, and they don't give a shit about you or me or any of the other collectors out there. They're just not doing it. Yeah, And that's not a contractual thing or not. You
know, it's just them being assholes. So we'll just leave it. We'll just leave it at that. So you know, everybody has, well, what's going to happen to my redemption that I've been waiting three and a half years for. Well, dude, you've been waiting three and a half years for it and they still haven't signed it. And the Players Association's fault the whole time. Anyway, You've been mad at the wrong people your entire time, So just get the Players Association and wait. But you know, yeah,
this is all. Yeah, like I said, you know, you've been waiting that long and they haven't signed it yet, so what are the odds that they're going to sign it now? Or a yeah, it's not. If it's an NFL, expect to freaking wait. There's there's an old military term hurry up and wait. Yeah, that that applies here. That's yes, So all right, so you think you think you may know what the reasoning is? Okay, and again again speculation, Yes, this is
this is speculation. And guys, if you are on watching us on YouTube, thanks everyone for tuning in to our live uncut versions on YouTube. If you are, please drop some questions if you have any in the chat. We will address those all at the end of the show with some bonus footage. Definitely definitely want to thank both of you that are watching live. Yes, I'm just just kidding. It's yeah, but it's actually three but you know, okay, yeah, guys will catch it on the replay. It's
okay, all right. So I was told by a very reputable source who owns a store and has spoken with a couple of reps and spoken with a couple of people this morning, and that have spoken to a couple of people. They are very close to the situation. And I talked about this on the Hobby Hotline Live last night. I said something in the lawsuit that Fanatics shot back Michael Rubens manifesto to Panini, where he basically just destroyed them.
I mean, that's what I'm calling that counter that that lawsuits just a manifesto because it was just gut punch apter gut punch. But in there I said, there has to be something that the NFLPA latched onto. Now, what I'm being told is there is a very very good possibility that the part about Panini falsifying their numbers by that two hundred million we were talking about last week,
that could possibly be the actual reason. Now, whether it's two hundred million or not, whatever, falsifying numbers, apparently internally at least by a lot of people, is being discussed as a possible reason for the NFLPA,
you know, getting out of this agreement. And once again that is speculation, but it is based on talking to some people that do have some very very good contacts in this industry, work with these companies hand in hand, and from their conversations, that's what they're that's what they're hearing seeing that that doesn't necessarily make a ton of sense because I know they the Players Association is
paid a percentage. Yeah, so now it's a smaller percentage with the current contracts than it will be with the new contracts, but they still get paid a percentage. So if it was the falsification of numbers, one of two things could have happened. Either one players association was overpaid, in which case why would they leave if you're being paid more than you should be paying, yeah, or that they're looking at those inflated numbers and saying we were underpaid.
Exactly, you owe us a ton of money because your sales were actually higher than what you reported to us. And that's also that's also you know, because again Fanatics has a relationship with the NFLPA, they've got a relationship with the NBA Players Association. It's very possible that the two players associations reported what they were given and what their percentages should have been on licensing fees and
things like that from Panini. Yeah, and that's how Fanatics was able to say, you're over reporting your numbers, right, very good chance that that's the case. So, you know, if that's The reason I'm willing to bet the Players Association is you know, is going to use that and say, hey, you owe us all this money if the numbers that you reported were correct, and that's a violation because it look not paying the amount the money that's due is a violation of the contract. Yep. So that would
give them an out, you know in theory. Again, we haven't seen a language on the contract, but you know, we're assuming that there's something in there that avoids it. If you know, money's not given. That could be the case. No, absolutely, it could be. And like I said, this is just from a couple of sources that I've heard from that do have you know, quite a bit of good sources themselves. Will
see obviously what happens with this. But this whole thing, man, the thing that the thing that scares me the most is if if we go a year without football cards, if that is the case, if that stops talk not just a gut punch for the hobby at the football hobby in general. But no matter, I mean, no matter what happens, this is all just aw well, well hold on, hold on, there is a little bit of precedent that we can go on here. Oh yeah, when they're they're baseball shit. No, no, no, no, no more recent
Uh during the twelve thirteen NHL season, yeah, we're on strike. Yeah, they weren't producing cards with any of the no new rookies, no, none of that. You had to dual class later, right, and they did the double rookie class the next year. But during that period of time, I was heavy in the hockey during that period of time, and what I wound up doing was branching out a little bit more. That's when I started getting more into basketball again, right, and football. And I was
saying, I was still doing baseball, and it's fine. My money went to basketball into football because that was it. And I've got I've got to feel it. Look, we're all all, especially those of us that rip wax, we are all degenerate gamblers. Said, look, I'm sorry, you know, if it's a if that's a wake up call for you, those of us that rip wax. We are gambling. We are degenerate, suite you know, you know whatever, But we're still gonna be ripping wax.
We're just not going to be ripping well, no, I agree. I met this entire situation just being bad for the hobby because it's all the bad news, Like just this shining a light on this, This isn't gonna take if we're trying to pull new people into the hobby, nobody's gonna look at this and say, oh, this looks like fun. I mean, you know what I mean, Like these lawsuits, all this bullshit, This
isn't what the hobby needs to be focused on. And but yeah, the football market, if there's no football cards, I could easily see a lot of people going in towards the other sports. Basketball I would assume the most, since it will be the one going on for the most part, since baseball'll be wrapping up, even though products will still be coming out. But I also see it as a lot of and it's almost overdue, but there's a lot of players in the football hobby that don't get the love they deserve
because there's been so many stacked rookie classes. We are having that massive changing of the guard where there's so many good up and coming quarterbacks you don't know who's going to be the best of the best yet and really any of these positions because so many of the greats retired and so many of these other guys are going into year three, year five, you know, or they really make those big jumps. There's a lot of people that get overlooked in the
hobby, so maybe that money starts going over there. I would expect to see older products from the last couple of years start to skyrocket, and maybe people start putting more money into where they have been going, which is in the nineties football into the vintage area. I don't know, but there's a strong chance we don't get any football cards this year, and that it's gonna be weird to see how the new era of the hobby handles something like this.
We've got precedence for it, but it was a completely different hobby then and now. What I want to see, and I'm also curious to see what the effects are going to be on shops because football is the number one a lot of shops. It's number one for a lot of shops. I think it's number two overall. I think baseball is still ahead of that. But a lot of shops, you know, make a ton of their income every year on the football blocks, and without it, their numbers are gonna
dip, Yes, significantly. Yes, Football is also the easiest product to sell yeah for some reason. I mean, it's football. Every shop owner I've always talked that football is always the easiest to sell. What's going to happen to their bottom line? I know, I know, I know. This is a big blow for back for hobby shops like Mathiddly if, like
we said, cards don't come out. But we, like I said, we had our emergency hobby hotline last night and Guy Rex, who owns a shop out on the West Coast, was talking to us talking about how football is his number one seller has been since he's always had his entire shop, and that all the shop owners that I've spoken to are very worried about the upcoming year because I mean, look, I also don't think it's a coincidence this was released right before football season started by the NFLPA. I think that
this. I think this was a one thousand percent calculated attempt by them in fanatics. They did it right before football season for a reason. But there's a lot of shop owners that are going to take a big hit if this isn't if an injunction by Panini isn't being able to be held up, you know, held up in court and they say yes, okay, everything's a status quo for this year. We're going to figure out the next couple.
If they don't that and allow them to produce cards, now you still won't get the stroud you know, the brace young autos that their fanatics that's already been announced and confirmed in everything, but everything else, you'd still get them in cards. You'd still get a normal release date. Unless that happens. Shop owners are going to take a big hit here. Yeah. Now, let me ask you this, because I don't do a lot of the draft.
Sure are the draft products players Association, I don't draft the draft products. They would be able to do, but the only way that they would be able to do it would be if they didn't use players that were already drafted to an NFL team, because that their name and likeness would be their
name and likeness would be used on a card. Yeah. But if you flip over the back of like a Select draft or Chronicles draft or like that, and I know, I know you ripped something this week, so you look into an here, look on the back and see if there is a Players Association logo, because if there is, then you know, if there is the logo, they won't be able to make them. There is no NFL Players Association logo on there. Okay, So based on that, I
would assume that they're probably able to continue producing draft. Yes, but they do have a limit on the amount of products of those they can produce. And if they're not and even though they have you know, with Panini's statement today saying they've got three hundred and sixty signed athletes and everything, if the Players Association wins this whole idea that they don't have a group majority anymore a
group licensing. Since they don't have the majority, I'm assuming they're claiming they don't have group licensing, Panini won't be able to put out any products of more than five players on them. Well, I think that because that's because it's really a college product. I think I think that would be an exception they with it that maybe that maybe, I mean, it isn't licensed and it isn't touched by the NFLPA at least on the box now how and it
would be it would be on the box. But see, the thing is is once a player and this is something I don't know the answer too, but once a player is drafted has moved on, I could see them as maybe using their NIL deals and doing players that are in college still that are coming up for the next draft and maybe moving that up early. But I'm pretty sure. I mean, these guys are signed members of the NFL Players Association now, so something has to give. I mean, it doesn't it.
I mean, because now they're members of the Players Association when these products came out and everything else. Yeah, but if they're using old photos and you know, from their college days and they've got the NC double a license to be able to do it, yeah, and you're not calling it an NFL product, right, Hey, if anyone knows the answer, please let us know. We'll do some research this week. That's a good question. But because if that's the case, do we see do we see twenty twenty
three optic Draft? Well? I figured wee wee Donra's Draft. I figured we get all that eventually anyway, Yeah, I mean we already have left this year. Yeah. Well, so it's select. They've done Select the last couple of years and did, by the way, the Select this year. My god, guys, awful design, just just just fucking terrible select. Hideous bro Well this Hey, the select NFL looks good though, Yes, it does draft picks awful. Yeah, cut that design, guys.
If you make football cards anymore, that does or well but again, or don't use it for basketball either because a lot of times they share the design between those two. But I'm curious to see how this is all gonna play out, just along with everybody else. Everybody has more questions than answers. It is literally taking up my entire Facebook feed until like every everything I go through, it's all, it's all freaking people questioning what's going on with it.
My phone. If you look at from my text messages last night, you know I got messages from like forty different people. Yes, like want to know what the hell is going on? And guys, look, we don't know. We don't know any more than you do. And anything I do know, I'm gonna tell you. I reached out to the NFLPA, got as much information as I could from them. For you reach out to
Pannemi and Fanatics. Any information we get, we're always gonna get. Yeah, And I've got a feeling that neither come, neither of those companies is going to be releasing information that's not coming out through their attorneys, no, which is the look from a business standpoint, as the smartest thing to do. Yeah, Panini already came out with the statement this morning. You know, we read that earlier. We read uh, you know, the NFL
Players Association what they sent out last night. Aside from that, we're gonna have to wait, most likely for some sort of court filing. But the good news with that is it's public record. Yep, exactly so, And just like we said before, looks like we might really get the discovery. Now, yeah, that was a common thing from you know, from last week. So we'll see what happens with that. Well, we're gonna be keeping an eye on the clerk's dockets and various courts, both federal and state.
I would assume, because this involves an interstate contracts, it's probably gonna go through the federal courts, not through state of Texas. But we'll find out, and it's going to be a very interesting couple of weeks. Absolutely, I'm already sick of hearing about it, tell you truth. Oh no, no, no, me too. This is not what we talked about last week. Yeah, what I like to discuss in the hobby not what
I want to be talking about in the hobby. But it's it's something we got to cover and it's something that's going to affect a hell the hobby for a very long time. But like we said, we will keep everyone updated, everyone on YouTube. Of course, hanging around would do some bonus content answer some of your questions. But Scott, I think I think this is probably a good time to wrap up episode one ninety six, would you?
I would agree. I wish we had, wish we had other things to discuss this week, but the NFL Players Association decided to make that decision for us on one of the content is going to be this week, and well we did slip in some flaw, you know, so we yea what we could. But as far as I concerned right now then dictating our content for the week, they can go eat a dick. Yes, no, I completely agree. And on that note, that is a perfect time to end
this week's episode. So before we go, I do want to thank our awesome sponsors, Card Ladder, Denver, Card Shows, Game Time Cards, Zion Cases, Show your Slabs, Slabs, Drown, stand up displays and pressures, Hunter Sports Cards. Thank you guys so much for everything you do. Could not do this show without you. Guys, We do have Hoppy Hotline of course, every single Saturday at eleven am over on thanks to Clear
Media. Make sure you check that out. If you miss the emergency episode from last night, the audio and video is up, so go check that out. It was a very very good show, and I was on last week's episode also awesome as well, of course, but a lot of really cool stuff coming up. I've got to get ready to go. Ahead Callie this weekend. If you are at the Collecticon and Long Beach, come say what's up. I'll be out over there. Look forward to seeing some of
you guys then. But until next week, you guys know the deal. Keep ripping those packs and pulling those hits and we'll talk to you then. Great