See it work all right, Okay, before my fucking shit goes up. My light's been sick and what's up everybody? And welcome Episode one hundred and eighty one of Let me get that potograph our Postment Collectible special Scott, What is going on? Man living a life? Man living the life? Yeah, I know. We're rolling a little bit late this week due to some scheduling issues and some late trips getting back and some storms and dog issues and
kid issues. And my plane got delayed for about seven and a half eight hours. And when I finally got out of Vegas, we go to get on the plane, and they were asking people, you know, if they wanted to be on standby, if they would change flights. I had changed flight vouchers and everything, and I thought the plane was packed. We get on the plane. There's about six of us on a thirty five row plane and the entire thing, so I think they were just trying to get us
all to change tickets. They didn't have to make the flight period, That's probably That's probably what it is, which is surprising because usually they need the plane back wherever going for the morning. I was on a flight pre nine to eleven once coming from Fort Myers to Chicago. I was traveling with a guy and it was literally just the two of us and three flight attendants on
the flight. And that's the reason. The only reason they made it was they took you know, they took the flight was because they needed the plane back in Chicago the next morning. And we were throwing a football around in the aisles and you know, you know, flight attendantion like here, you know, just whatever whatever you want from the bar, you know, the bar Khart. And it was had this not been a red eye arriving around three am, there probably would have been some football playing. There was just
I think six people sleeping at that point. Yeah, it sounds about right. I would have been hitting up the bar. I don't yeah, yeah, I may or may not have during my seven hour delay in the Las Vegas Airport, heavy on the may chance. But and I that's the most dangerous airport in the world to get delayed in. It is you got the slot machines there. I mean, you can get in a lot of trouble
in it are every concourse is a fricking mall. Like it's a mall too, Like you got you could go shopping at lids, you could go like you spent play slot machines. You can do whatever the hell you wanted in't that airport? Yeah, it's it's absolutely insane that you know that is like I dread getting delayed there just because I wind up coming home even broker than I was when I left. Right. Yeah, So but that's this week.
This week, guys, is going to be a shorter episode than when we got a couple of things we're gonna cover today, but mostly we're gonna do a mint recap, come over, go over some of the big things that went on there, and some big news that's about to drop. We're kind of kind of semi break it to you. We kind of broke it on Hobby News Daily, the new website there I'm writing for a couple of days ago, but we're really gonna dive into it a little bit more today.
Then, we have an awesome update regarding our interview with John Scanlin from a few weeks ago. I got a phone call from him today and a really cool phone call that he got after our interview, and I was I was pleasantly surprised when you send me that text earlier today about it with the details about that, but we will get into that at the end of the
show tonight. Um, and it is going to be a quickie compared to normal, yes, or or so we or so we think right now we dude, we can we can do an entire like three week segment on you know what happened at the Mint? Yeah? Uh, you know going forward? And you know, it kind of makes me really look forward to the National this year because if all that stuff happened at the Mint, magine what
is going to happen. Yeah here in Chicago and July. And I've already heard some rumblings of some stuff and I heard at the Mint that was being planned for the National. Talk to quite a few people there, and and yeah, the National is definitely going to be crazy. And I would expect quite a quite a lot to be announced at the National. And you know how it is not a month before the National Normally a big scandal comes up and then a lot of big news drops and then we have the National.
So I'm sure we'll get that here in a couple of and about a month or two anyway leading up to it, I'm thinking we're probably gonna have several scandals that bop before that even you know, that time frame even hits so absolutely all right, so you were there, you were on the ground. Yeah, your overall impression of this year's meant compared to last year's absolutely okay. Well, the first of all, I'll say, the entire weekend was
awesome. This year. I did yet to stay at the MGM compared to not at the actual MGM, which is where it was held, So that was very nice, cutting down on a lot of travel and a lot of carrying boxes and things like that, and saving a little bit of money as well. But for the first thing I do want to say is last year was very much them testing the waters and it was very much geared as a as a trade show. And that's kind of what I mentioned on this show
earlier that you know, this isn't your regular old card show. Don't expect to see dollar boxes, don't expect to see smaller stuff, Expect to see big time displays and then more of a trade show field. That's how it
was last year. Man, this year, so many people brought out the dollar boxes, the lower end slabs, like really, you see, I was out of the impression that you that the dealers weren't allowed to do that well Game Day Cards, which we went myself, Jared and Mark from Double a Mint down in Orlando, who was just featured on most expensivest with what's her name two chains they were. We all went with Jeff Wilson from Sports
Card Investor down to Game Day Sports checked all that out. If you watch Jeff's video, you can see me playing NBA jam and kicking some asks with Tim Hardaway and Christmas maman as they shot some b roll footage. But they
set up and had incredible deals all weekend. Multiple other vendors ended up having amazing boxes of lower end stuff like anything from a dollar to ten dollar cards all the way up the cards I was expecting to see, like last year, the ten twenty fifty hundred thousand dollars, you know, iconic cards. I still had those all over the place, but you had so much more
to choose from that you could actually go sift through a dollar box. Now, there weren't rows and rows of dealers, but last year there was literally none. This year there was a good ten fifteen boots that had a lot of affordable stuff, whether it be waxed cards, everything. And that's another thing that wasn't there. Last year was whax. You couldn't really find much outside of people selling expensive cases or people selling you know, a couple of
boxes of the brand new product here and there. Now you know, not too much. But this year it was everywhere. And you probably last year you probably saw like individual boxes of let's say late kineties Skybox metal basketball, right, you know that's the stuff that's a go for ten grand plus a bob. Yes, and you saw that, you don't get me wrong. That was all still there. But the mix of the actual card show really impressed me, and I thought was something that they were severely lacking the year
before. And the reviews I know, and stuff that people saw. It turned a lot of people off. But if you go to our Instagram at LGT Podograph, you'll see, as I did a lot of live shows through there. They're also up on Facebook as well, that the floor was a good mix of the super high end but also the mid tiers, the low end. And if you want to discount slabs, shoot, I hit up a discount slab booths and bought like twenty five thirty slabs or like forty bucks.
There you go. Now, also, I will I do want to say though, that it is it's not necessarily a fair comparison to compare it this year's to last year's because the date got moved I think at least twice last year due to you know, COVID restriction and things like that. So it's not a you know, it's not apples to apples. Yes, some
of those guys could have backed out. There were other big card shows that were this weekend, you know, as well Shantilly things like that, so you know that that was also their last year that people probably couldn't probably backed out once it was changed and went to Shantilly instead, And this year ended up coming through the mint like since it wasn't pushed back, they didn't have to change hotels and all that. So, yeah, this is the original
date for this year. Yes, so there there are some factors that could have led to the change, but that was that was my biggest surprise was walking the floor seeing you still saw all the innovation, all the new products that are coming out soon. Zion Cases debuted their new mag pros, which
are absolutely sick. They're they're basically oversized magnetics, which I'll be doing a feature on our Instagram in a few weeks showing you guys these in detail, and you can also check out multiple videos on our ig from the Mint. But they're basically like an oversized mag that has a little customizable flip on it, so you can customize your own flip at the top. But it's an actual mag case and it's not too much bigger than a normal magnetic little smaller
maybe than a PSA slab. But man, these things look good. They're so nice, they're so cool. Um, they'll be dropping in a few weeks, I believe, Zion Cases said. But there's a lot of a lot of really cool innovation that was on the floor Clints. Clint's been working on those for for a while now, so I'm glad, glad to see he's finally finally got it down and you know, ready to ready to pop out. Yep, they're doing a business of business right now. It'll be
available to the general public here in just a few weeks. But I highly recommend checking out the videos on the magpro was I detailed him in pretty in depth at the Mint while I was there, But you know, walking the floor this year, it was amazing once again, running into so many people that you know, maybe don't even head to the National anymore as much, or are too busy at the National to talk people like too far or too far west for the National because you know, it doesn't go it does not
go west to the Mississippi, or it hasn't in at least twenty years. So you know, being out in Vegas is a little bit different. To get a lot, they can get there in about an hour plane ride. You know, it makes it a lot easier for most people on the West coast. So you did see a couple, you know, a little more people that you might not normally see like at every you know national things like that. So it was really nice. It was really cool to see the
overall floor layout. I thought they did a great job organizing the event. No, there were some major issues with some stuff, but overall they did a really good job. I do have to slight a couple of companies here in just a little bit, but they did a really good job with the floor layout. Panini's booth was awesome. I basically Tops had a really huge
booth. Tops brought back the one of my favorite things. They put up a wall of cards and it's basically take a card leave a card type of deal, and I would go up there every now and then and just drop off an auto when I saw a bunch of kids there or something, you know, throw something cool in instead of just a bass card. But by the end of the weekend it was filled with people just hooking that wall up and seeing the kids run up to it and grab stuff was awesome. And
that's also another thing. I saw a lot of kids this year. So many kids at this show, and for a show that you see is so much of a trade show, it surprised me. But these kids were interested in all of it, and I was quite impressed. The overall presentation was great. The after hour events, I will say need a little work this year. You know, when we went to one of the quote unquote parties
or whatever, the carnival or whatever, it was far from it. It was a room with a couple of drinks, you shoot basketball with Adam Morrison for about five minutes and then there was nothing to do. Yeah, so it really wasn't a collector's carnival or whatever, which was supposed to have white chocolate. He backed out last minute due to travel problems and we ended up getting Adam Morrison instead, which you know, I'm fine with. But and
Adam Morrison was cool. But the events left a little to be a mat like, a little more to be desired considering what you were paying to get into those events, you know what I mean. It really wasn't anything. It was literally just walking to the room with people that you had just seen and that you talk to on the floor all day long, see them for a few minutes and you know, grab some finger food and leave. But yeah, and with an open bar, right yes, and so other than
that, you know, it was cool. The panels I did, you know, I was working at the gem Mint PSA booth and so didn't get a chance to check out a lot of the panels, but did get to sneak into a couple when I had some time, and they were good. I thought the hobby Talk was really well. The couple others that I was able to check out just for some content which I'll be releasing here this week on video, they were great. I thought they were wonderful. And I
thought the layout this year was great. It was in the same basic general spot. But I think they're finding their footing. You know, it's here two of a show. They're trying to do completely different and they're trying something like no other show in the country does, which I commend them for. I think the more types of different types of shows we can have, the better for the hobby, instead of everybody feeling like every shows the same.
And so I love the idea that they're doing. I do think they've got a couple of things to flesh out, but I mean, compared to year one, I would say that this was a drastic improvement. I think that there was still something to be desired and let you know, left to be desired in my opinion, but the access to everybody was well. Obviously this is a time where everybody wants to talk and discuss business. A lot of business was talked in discussed, and you know, I thought it was an
awesome show. I highly and I say this all the time, even if you're just in this a little bit in the business aspect of the hobby. It's a show that I highly recommend everybody going to and experiencing at least once.
And now that I've seen what they're building it too, I would almost extend it to collectors because if you like to see what's coming up in the hobby in the future if you want to see up close and personal what's going on in the future, as well as grabbing a bunch of lower and stuff, checking out dollar boxes, which I ever expected to see there, but
apparently it's going to be a real thing going forward. You know. I thought it was awesome, so a great year two improvement, although I do think they're still finding their balance between trade show and card show, if that makes sense. Well, I think from what I saw, you know, from all the way out here and you know, the cold hell hole that we call struggle, I think I'm gonna have to get my ass out there next year because I think it's one of those things where you know it's not
it's not going to be something that you want to miss. No, I absolutely think it is a can't miss show. I would definitely put it on my can't list show from this year. All right, now, speaking of things that nobody missed, Yeah, um, let's talk about the elephant in the room. Yes, what the hell was Beckett thinking? Now, I
made a meme. I don't know if you guys saw it. I was able to get pictures of the entire process of their their first reveal when they tarped it when they replaced it, and then when it ultimately they pulled it down. Um, but yes, if you guys did miss it, that get as soon as it started ripped, opened their curtains to their booth, revealing and all new grading scale that made absolutely no freaking sense saying that quad
nine five that equal to ten. Now, I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna tell you Drew before we get into the meat and potatoes of this doctor. Doctor Beckett is rolling over in his grave right now, and he's not even dead. I was about to say he's gonna be on I'll be hotline this Saturday. No, I dude is rolling over in his grave and he's
not even dead. So look, this was like we you know, when we had Jeremy and canal on back in August after the National we had the conversation about the new slab design that the marketing department you know, kind of got ahead of their skis on and they threw up there any way, and it created a whole bunch of madness. Yeah, and now we've got this here we are again. So basically what happened was they were going to change their grading scale, and if you had, so where a gem Mint is
now going to be a ten but instead of a nine point five. But they're also going to have the pristine ten. Yeah, they're gonna have the black label ten. Yes, which is fine, no issue, fine if you want to distinguish between that stuff. Correct. However, what they didn't do was make changes to the subgrades. So now in order to be a gem Mint ten, you had to have at least one of the subgrades be
a ten. Now as part of this also they're adding it. They were going to add in the nine point five grade, but as a mint plus grade, very similar to what SGC started, and then CSG you know, decided to do that as well and things like that. But which okay, I'm supportive of. Now here's the problem. If you have a card that is a quad nine five, so all the subgrades are nine fives, what we in the hobby like to refer to as a true true jem, yeah,
true gem. Immediately once that change gets made to the grading scale, that card is no longer considered gem mint right because it doesn't have a ten at least one ten as one of the subgrades. Well, so, initially, initially they announced that if you had quad nine fives, it would be a ten, and so a lot of people went and bought on the floor
quad nine fives, expecting to do it day one before it opened. The preview show, they were talking and saying that you could bring it to them and get it swapped out with the new flip and everything if you had that stuff for a small fee. Then the next day it popped up that you had to have one ten on there to get it popped up. So it didn't just start with one ten. They were gonna give all Quade nine fives.
They were just gonna give him a bump that they didn't deserve. And then they got backlash, so they tarked it and then they threw out that you had to have one ten. And then people still, i mean, despite the fact that they said screw all the people that you know, went and bought the Quade nine fives to you know, flip up. Then they decided to say, you know, hey, all you have to have is one tens. Then what do you think people do? They go find someone
they have one ten, then they say scratch it. You know, we're not gonna do any of it. So yeah, a lot of people were very pissed about that. And now here's what I well, let's let's you know, let's get into the details. Here's what I don't understand. So under the current well i'll call it the current grading scale, because they backtracked everything and said, we're not making any changes yet. We're gonna you know, you know, well that having read on that, we're gonna we're gonna
get into that in a minute. But I just didn't want to get ahead of myself there. Yeah. So, according to their grading scale, a nine point five was a gem mint HM, which means that if you had quad nine fives as subgrades, the card was gem a mint. That would be no difference than if you were look at subgrades for a PSA ten, right, you know, you would see at least three of the four subgrades. If they did subs on a gemment ten would be three or four set
bridge would be tens. In theory, this is you know, again, it's not exactly like that, but look, let's you know, I'm trying to trying to make an Apple's ten. Yeah, right, so why not change the subgrades as well? Yeah, because you immediately you know, if you've got quad nine fives. Yeah, and they're gonna say, hey, it's a ten. You know, it needs to have at least one ten in order to do that. Well, what if you what if you got a card that's three nine fives. I'm sorry, that's got two nine fives,
a ten and a nine. Right, yeah, you know, but what you're really doing is taking all those quad nine fives. Imagine all the
quad nine five Jordan rookies that are out there. Okay, you are immediately downgrading those, yes, instantly and instantly, and all the National Treasures rpas, the basketball because that's what Beckett was always known for, if anything, was the bow men chrome and the ntrpas and stuff, and the Cup rpas because they wanted those subgrades just in cases, well, the subgrades, but they also you also gotta keep in mind, you also gotta keep in mind
that PSA in order to get a card like an nt you know, RPA or something like the cup slabbed. Back in the day it was they had that. Yeah, it was like this monster size slab. Yes, now it's different, right, but a lot of those are still going to plus, they also have the inner liner m uh, you know, the inner sleeve that they put the card into. Before they put it in the slab.
There's a lot of people that still love that me included. Yeah, um, you know, because it's that added layer of protection for the card. If you should, you know, you shake it around or whatever you should, it's not gonna get you know, it's not. There's no potential for it to get scratched by the plastic and the slat, which which PSA is now added to some some cards that fit a criteria on their on their
grading now. But yes, the Inner Sleep definitely helped as well. But you saw those cards all the time, and the quot the true gems were the ones that would sell for astronomical amounts compared to having one nine on like nine. It was a massive increase and like you said, it basically made the completely downgraded them one thousand reason overnight. Yeah. Instead of those cards being gem mint in in the like the snap of a finger right there,
it just they became mint plus. Yeah. And had they gone through with it, the amount of value that that would have wiped out of the hobby, yes, would have been astronomical. Oh yes, there probably would. You know, if you take all the cards that are nine fives that are either quad nine fives or maybe three nine fives and a nine. Um, you're probably and you downgrade all of those to a mint plus instead of jem mint. Yeah, you're probably wiping out a good eight figure number easily.
And you know, one of the funniest things was at the at the start of the show when they announced all this stuff. The line at Beckett and the conversation around Beckett was massive. After that first preview day, it was a ghost town the entire weekend. Like I've never seen so many people walk by a booth and have so much tension at that booth and then that booth literally be a ghost town the rest of the weekend. It was mind blowing
to me. So before we get into the update, regard that and kind of what they did and the you know, a couple of days past the mint, I have a question. Sure, I have a question. It's not for you. I'm not going to get an answer on the show. But Jeremy and Kunal, what were you guys thinking, Yeah, well, we'll hold on, hold on, hold on, we'll get to that. We'll get to that because I know it's part of the update. Um, and who's getting fired? Yeah, because a mistake like look, a mistake
like this cannot go. This isn't a slap on the wrist, you know, error right, This isn't something small, this is this is something that has the potential to completely and utterly destroy Yes, the company. Yes, Now, I will say that two of the names that you said are absolutely right. They appeared on our show and did there for the first interview Beckett
had in a couple of years. I highly recommend you check that episode out if you haven't, probably a couple of months ago, but I will tell you right now a lot of stuff that they said listening to that and then seeing at the Mint and where they've gone since then, it's quite interesting and still very very current event related. So if you haven't heard that episode, definitely check it out. But you said, what, we're Canaan Jeremy thinking
that's two of the people. Now, I spoke to somebody very high up. They may or may not basically run the National and they may or may not also run a very very well known hobby website in the industry. But had a long conversation with this man or a woman, and they happen to tell me that there are three people at Beckett that right, now are making
those decisions. You had two of them, right, third one I'm not going to name, but basically they all three have completely different visions on where they think all this stuff could go, and they all put their ideas up. They all tried to push for what they thought was right, but they are being overruled at every single corner and are being shut down completely by one
person. And I'm sure if you connect the dots and play a little game and do a little diagram, whatever you need to do, a yarn chart, like a serial killer does whatever you need to do, you can cross names, You cross names, figure out who it is it's making those ultimate decisions. But they're being shot down at every single corner, and ultimately somebody decided to take this completely on their own reins and say, hey, this
is exactly what we're doing. What you guys think does not matter. And quite honestly, the people that are making those decisions are not the one out of the three that has any idea about the actual collector they have. And i they might have the best idea on the market. They may be brilliant
with technology, they may be brilliant advertising. They can may be brilliant and all this other stuff, but when it comes down to the collector, the actual person grading the cards, and the people on the ground floor of the hobby, the people in that company that are ultimately shutting everyone else, like Jeremy for example, down, they're silencing them. They're they're blocking their ideas
out and they don't understand the collectors in this industry. And that's something that you and I spoke about that we were worried about, and you're seeing it now. Yeah, now that brings us to the next thing. Yes, So they put out an update shortly shortly after the mint yea that they were gonna, you know, start doing some focus groups talking to people in the hobby. You know, they put out a survey then you can go and
fill out. Um. You know, they're gonna be reaching out to two people in you know, who's got got the experience in the hobby and um, finding out what their views are. I'm still waiting for my phone call. Um. But don't you think this is something that should have happened first? Uh? Yeah, hell, what do you? Yes, Yes, this is this is something that should have happened. This is you know, if you're gonna if you're thinking about making a change like this, maybe we
should have focused grouped this with people from within the hobby first. You could focus group, but within your own damn company. There's I know enough freaking collectors there at the own company that they had actually listened to people. I know for a fact, people in the company that were heavily against this, because I spoke to them at the MINT. I know for a fact they were heavily against this, but had no choice. They could have focused grouped
this, They could have spoken to everyone they needed to do. But that's just it. The people making these decisions don't care until it's too late. They think this is some industry where you can throw crap out there and if it doesn't work, you can just immediately backtrack and fix it. You've seen it a million times. But this is not a freaking website or a new shopping cart. This is not the internet tech space. This is physical,
tangible collectibles. And like you said, that change would have cost at least eight figures in the hobby at a minimum mini minimum. And that's a very low estimate, you know, that's that's very forgiving. You know, at that point, the amount of value they could have lost is extraordinary, So for them to come out and do the crap they did, which I've got their statement here, Like you said, to get there and do a hobby wide survey, reaching out to specific people in the hobby. I know they're
gonna be reaching out to a lot of us. I'm sure we'll get those colleges soon, if not from Cronal, from Jeremy or someone else. And they're also going to be hosting, like you said, focus groups and things like that. And you can go fill out the survey. Check out Beckett on Facebook. They've got a link to it, you can or on Twitter and you can click and take that survey, and I highly recommend you do
because I mean, I mean, I'm not using Becket anymore. I'll be quite honest, unless I'm authenticating something because their authentication department is still phenomenal. What Brooke and Steve built has been absolutely insane, although Brook's not in that that side of it anymore. What those two are really responsible for building has
been phenomenal. But the grading side of stuff is a fricking mess. And like we kind of talked about before, if I'm Beckett after all of this, I move and focus all my tension on authentication and I come up with whatever the hell kind of tech stuff they want to do and easier. Damn ass is out of grating if you need to, because if you're not going
to listen to the people that can actually make changes. And I'm talking about people I know there that are greaters, people that I know there that are high ups in the company that I just spoke to in person that hated this idea. You could have All you had to do is walk the office floor and talk to five people and you could have focused grouped it in ten minutes. But they thought they knew everything because they think they know this space and
they don't. And it's frustrating because a Beckett is a part of my childhood growing up. I think it's part of it's part of all of our childhoods. Yes, B I have a great relationship with doctor Jim, who founded the company, and although he doesn't own it anymore, is still part of his legacy. I would like to see that preserved and taken care of and not run into the ground by people that have no fricking clue what they're doing.
But it's just it's frustrating to me, and it's getting to the point where I just want to say, look, you got a lot of awesome cards and a lot of awesome Becketts labs. If either keep things the same or get rid of the grading because you gotta do something, you can't have these reactionary I mean, this isn't the first time they've done this. Like we just said, they keep throwing out new things, throwing it at the wall, throwing it at collectors, and as soon as there's an uproar,
they pull it right back. And for good reason they pulled it back. I'm glad they did because it was stupid. But now, no, no, We'll hold on a second though. I understand why they wanted to make the change where the Gemen became a tad. I get that. I understand that. I'm supportive of that. Right, the issue became what then are the qualifications? Yes, as far as subgrades go, there is a way
to do this. No, be able to make this change and still preserve things where what was a gem mint at nine point five remains a gem mint, yes, and still holds that value in collector's eyes. Correct, because all we're really doing is changing a label. Right, You're saying, what was a nine to five is now at ten. Well, and the slab, the slab is going to get thinner. That is going to say, the slab is getting changed just for everyone's knowledge. I'm I'm less focused on
that. That is not that is not the issue. The change in the physical slab, that's not the problem. That was never the problem. Nope. Now there is a way to do this, but you will also you also have to change the subgrade structure as well. Right, yea, And there there is a way. And I'm not going to give away all my secrets. No, no, I would. I'm gonna to do their job. Let's see, I'm gonna I'm gonna no, no, no, no, I will gladly tell them how to do their job. So I'll tell
your out. You know, Conal, Jeremy. You want to know how to do it, how to do it right, and how to fix it and how to relaunch it and how to be successful with it. You got their contact impact, you've got my number. You have my number? Yeah, you know how you know where to find you know where the rainbow ends exactly, all right, call me. I'll tell you exactly how to do it, how to do it right, and how to do it without pissing
off of the hobby. Oh yeah, and guys, I know you are listening because I know one of you as a weekly listener, but you definitely give us a call. We can help you out with a lot of that. But yeah, when you say pissing off the community, you have no idea that first night of the Mint turned from a celebration of the Mint opening to a straight up bunch of pissed off Beckett people, not employees, but people going to be Beckett Ruth and then everyone else just laughing like crazy,
like it literally became a laughing stock. You had. Yeah, from what I heard, you had half the people that had torches and pitchforks and the other half they were just sitting back, drinking a beer and watching the show. There's Beckett again. I mean I heard this, I heard this more times than once. This exact phrase exactly what I'd expect from Beckett. And
is that's what's sad? Yeah, Yeah, you had you had your pitchforks and torches guys, and you had your Michael Jack some bucket of popcorn guys. Yep, And you know those would you there know that gift you know or Jeff or whatever you want to call it. Um, you know what I'm referencing. So you know again, you guys know where to find me. Yeah, I can tell you how to fix it. Call me.
Yeah, absolutely, moving on. Yes, So in addition to to that debacle, UM, you also were able to dig up some additional I don't I don't want to. I don't want to use the word scandalous information because it's it's a really scandalous some upcoming news. I will say, yeah, yeah, so all this has nothing to do with back. But um, I was able to talk and confirm over the last few days, which we did drop on Hobby News Daily a little piece on it. Hasn't been talked
about a lot yet. I know it will be discussed on Hobby Hotline in depth on Saturday with doctor Beckett and a few other people I believe Victor Roman and Adam Palmer. But over the weekend, fanatics had a bunch of meetings, or at least a bunch of dinners and conversations with a lot of people at Panini. Those conversations, I can tell you right now have led to already eight people or more. This is eight that we've confirmed, eight people
that left Panini and have now joined Fanatics in some sort of role. Now, these announcements will start coming out very soon. I find it a little odd that they haven't made the announcements yet. I have a couple of theories as to why, but we'll get into that in just a moment. But Panini, we've been talking about for a while now. There weren't a lot of people there left anyways. There were there were people taking over that were
hired for one job that we're running four different departments. As soon as a month ago. Now eight people, including at least three that are very high up in Panini's in Panini's food chain, have left Panini to join Fanatics. Now I'm not going to get the names at this moment because it has not been made official, and it's not my business to put their personal business out there till they want to, So I will let them make the announcements.
If you do enough digging, you can find it if you know their names. But at least eight employees from Panini have now headed to Fanatics. So the first thing I want to do is ask your opinion on what you think about this, because I have a little theory I want to run by you as well. Okay, so I I'm a little torn on which way I kind of want to go because I don't think that this is a pre buyout
move. Yeah. Typically typically if they're gonna make it, you know, if they're gonna if they're gonna try to buy out the company, Yeah, they don't want to steal the employees before they buy out the company. Typically, typically you just leave them there and you say, yes, we want to buy the company. Here's here's how much, here's a check. And it couldn't not be them, because what they did was they made him an offer. They they didn't take it. Like at the Mint, they all
waited till they got back and then handed in their papers. When I see something like this, it kind of makes me seem like, well, they're trying to take the executives to then make a enough because we all know a couple months ago that they were very close to purchasing Pemini. I know for a fact, I have confirmed they made offers and it was very close to being done and it ended up not being done. And that you know,
we haven't heard much of that story at all since then. So the only we're on the table, so are they siphoning them to then offer them pennies
on the dollar. Well, I think the longer that they wait, they're gonna wind up getting a pennies on the dollar offer anyway, because the closer you get to the beginning of the Fanatics contracts with the NBA in the NFL, you have a product that is going to generate less revenue at the higher revenue percentage, which is what the current contracts are at compared to the one
that's the ones that Fanatics has. I think the only way, the only way that I think that they're going to wind up being able to pull that off if this is indeed a move to force a buy out, If if it is top executives that they're you know, stealing way right now, it is they what they might come to the table with now and say, well, you have nobody there running the company. Let us come in and you know, let us buy it out and we'll get it. But I don't
think they're I don't think they need the company. They don't need the company the company. Know. What they need is the intellectual property, right, That's what they really that's what they really want. They really don't care about
the company. But I but I will say that for those of you that you know are expecting like a two year weight on redemptions, it's probably going to be closer to five at the moment, or or they're gonna start creating no sparkle packs for pretty much every product and saying you know, it's screw it, We're done, and here you go sparkle packs. Um. I
honestly don't know now that I think the interesting. In addition to all the Panini people moving forward, Fanatics also announced their plan to have NBA cards in late twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four, which is before they have the license. But they but in twenty twenty one they did tops Finest Basketball right. But are they expecting to get that intellectual property from Panini? Are they expecting to be able to use stuff early or they expect like, what are
they expecting to do with this? A lot? Just the announcement of the NBA was a little shocking to me because there was no need to announce anything about it, but they did. And at the same time, they're taking all the key executives. The amount of brain power that just left Panini. When the names come out and you see the positions is astonishing, like they literally chopped them in half. Almost. Well, so here's here's my thinking. So, and this is gonna be a weird one just but just follow
me here. First, last year's Bowman Bowman University, Yeah, complete straight up nil product, no school logos, just players and colors. This year's Bowman University aside from the fact that they got rid of paper, like, oh yeah, awesome, great job on that one. Tips Um they it is now it's an still an NIL product, but it's also an NC double A product. Yes, So my thinking is for those basketball products. Fanatics
already has deals with individual basketball players for autographs, including Lembayana. Yeah they got that now, ya Um what I am thinking it's gonna be. I'm and they're gonna be it's gonna be very similar to first year Bowman University. Yeah, where they're just gonna airbrush off the uniforms. Well, I think they will too. Look back at the football, even Bowman when they had
the license. If you look at Bowman football right before they lost a license in twenty fifteen, I believe to Panini Bowman was already airbrush down right like while the rookies and everything is they still air brush even when it was, Well, the difference is going to be before the contract hits. The only way the player can have a card is if they have an individual contract with
that player. Yes, which means we're not going to see Lebron. I don't think we'd see him anyway, because he'd be retired and he and then he reverts back to upper deck exclusive. But the only reason he's got cards with Panini is because he's still playing. He's an active player. Um, I think it's gonna be I think they're gonna go sign individual tracks with one hundred plus players, sure, and they're gonna do a They're gonna do a
product out of it. Well, I think they are too. I honestly think the main reason they wanted to do it was to capitalize on Victor Winbayonna like, yeah, I mean it's the biggest prospect since Lebron, and let's face it, Brownie Junior, he'll get some hype, but he's not gonna have near the hype that Victor is going to have. And so I think honestly they were like, yeah, there's no way we're missing that trial and now, but here's it. But here's the other side of the Brownie Junior
thing. Do you think he'll have I don't think he'll have autograph products in any whether it's Panini or Fanatics or anything. I think I think Daddy's gonna wind up talking them into going upper Deck exclusive. From autograph standpoint, well, I think eventually they do. But I mean Fanatics has already announced we'll have some at least in the upper in the in the McDonald donalds and things like that, So we might have, we might have some under some pre
NBA cards. Those maybe those maybe his only autographs. That was very posible because he could easily follow in his father's footsteps at upper Deck, which a lot of athletes have done lately Garland, a lot of other people had also done it outside of just Lebron Jordan, things like that. But that greatly influences the card market. I mean that, I mean hell, signing in exclusive with Upper Deck is literally what made Prism popular. Thank you, Ben
Simmons. Like if Ben Simmons did not sign that exclusive, Prism would not be what it was like, it wouldn't it would never have taken off because people wouldn't have been looking for that one rookie to Chase because there were no autos and people settled on the silver Prism and look what happened to the Prism brand. Thank you again, Ben Simmons at Leasha did the only thing. It's the only thing Nicia did something positive for the hobby, because you sure
didn't for anyone that bought your cards. But yeah, it very well could be his only autographs could be in the lower end products, because I definitely think with obviously your dad attached to it, I'm assuming he's gonna want to have probably the same type of deal. I'm assuming Lebron obviously loves the deal because he's not signing a billion things. Upper Deck is very good with their exclusive athletes, and I really haven't seen a company ever use their athletes that
they have signed to an exclusive as well as upper Deck does. Yeah, and so anyone that's offered that contract, honestly would be kind of crazy not to take it unless Fanatics starts putting in some crazy, crazy incentives that make it a little more appealing than upper Deck. But I just don't know. Now, I will say there's a company out there that is going to do that. Fanatics is the one because they've got deeper pockets than upper Deck does. But yes, but yes, I still see I still see him going
upper deck. But anyway, but that's besides, that's besides. But that's the reason I think to be a basketball. But they I don't know what. I honestly don't know what their play is pilfering the Panini executives. Um, what I do know is if that collective brain trust is gone. And I use the word brain trust loosely because let's be honest, Panini hasn't exactly in the you know, the shining example of what a card company should be
the last you know, five years or so. Um, if they're stealing away that brain trust, like I don't, I don't know what they're gonna I don't know if they I mean, what are they gonna do? Hire They're gonna hire replacements for these people knowing that there's a definitive shelf life on
the product. That's that's the biggest thing. And that's why I'm so confused on do they want the Panini brand or are they trying to get the people from Panini so they can get what you said earlier, the intellectual property in Panini, And maybe Panini pushes out back to stickers, NASCAR things like that, and maybe moves on with some things and sells some intellectual property. I mean, when Tops finished the first original football license, we'll guess what they
did with the inception plates and things like that. They handed them over to Panini and they created this thing called Origins. Go check out the first year of it, and go look at that same year of inception, the same plates. Guys. So intellectual property gets transferred all the time. I mean upper Deck has metal now, they never created metal in the past. I mean it was Skybox in a completely different company well, and didn't Panini didn't do Donerus right, so he all the time. So maybe this is a
power plate and not. Maybe since the offer to buy the company fell through, they figured, screw it, We'll just take the people. We'll try and grab what they want, which I'm assuming is prison, optic, national treasures, flawless, and then say bye, you know, and they but here's the thing. Do they really need optic? They don't need an optic. Optic is to optic is tops chrome? They don't need it. They don't need optic. But see, then you get into a much deeper conversation.
We'll have to have on another show where okay, well, now Prism needs to change encard Autographs because you've got to have that chromium product one card autographs, yep, which was optics main thing. You also, you know, do you want that rated rookie logo that's massively valuable and that is in Optic and so Dons. So but I don't I honestly don't think that that's as I don't think that is as valuable a right, you know, at
least in the current market as Prism. No, no, I agree that I'd rather have, you know, between those two brands, I think the Prism brand is definitely more valuable than either Dons or Donos optic brands. But I think if you gave Panini ten more years with Optic, I think there
would take over that. Maybe that may be true, Um, but what I what I will say is Panini is in a tough position right right now because you know, because of this, and it greatly If somebody a Panini came to me tomorrow and said, hey, we'd like to take you for this job that you know is the top whatever, the top person that you know, they wind up leaving. Um, I'm gonna turn that down. Same here, I'm gonna turn it down because there there is a there is
a definitive shelf life on this. It's like, hey, we're gonna you're gonna go roll with this for two to three years and then now now you could wind up orchestrating, as you know, a buy out to Fanatics and you could wind up moving over to Fanatics and you know, a similar type role. But whatever. But there's no guarantee. I was about to say, there's no guarantee on it. There's no guarantee on that. No,
So Panini is a Panini isn't a world hurt? Yes, No, this is a massive blow to Panini. Now, I will say, I'm going to reach out to a lot of Panini contacts I have. Are the few that are still there as a few of mine did, are some of the eight now that have left. But I'm interested to see what happens going forward, because like you said, you I mean, there was already so much change in the last six months. There was already so many new people brought
in. Some people didn't even last a year. Some of these people that left just came into these positions a year ago and they're already moving like this is a massive, massive exodus at Panini, and I'm gonna be really interested to see what happens from now until National time. Maybe, like as we said at the beginning of the show, is maybe this leading up to something at the National Who knows, But one thing's for sure, Pannini might not
have happened at the Mint. Is I think Beckett was dealt the biggest blow at the Mint. But post all right, as soon as everybody got back to work that Tuesday or Wednesday this week, Yeah, Panini, I got a stack of audio, so I'm out of here. Letters, and I do and I will say, I understand why those people waited. So do I completely understand why if you don't do that at the show? No, no, no, absolutely not, especially when you're not especially when the show
is not in your hometown. Right, because they could say, all right, great, have fun getting home. You're yeah, exactly, paid for your flight here, you're going you know, yeah exactly, Yeah, you don't. You don't do that. Plus you've already committed to, you know, doing a job for a company at this show. You don't like, Look, these people are not you know gen Z people. Exactly, Yeah, They're not the ones that will just you know, I, hey, screw this, I'm out of here. I don't like this, you know,
and just walk away. That's not you know what it is. You actually have a little bit of respect, correct And I'm willing to bet they put in a notice. Two oh they I know for a fact that they did. No, I'm not I'm not doubting that at all. I'm I'm just you know, because we have a lot of people that are gen Z that do listen to the show, and I just want to I just want to point that out, non hobby related, don't ever walk away from a job. If you're going to leave the job, give a proper notice to
allow your employer to find a replacement for you. Yep, don't just walk away. No, that's either. Okay. So that that's my non hobby you know, gen Z advice right here. So all right, so we are actually, you know, before we started recording, we actually joked around about how we could literally talk about this for a week and find that's that's exactly like we were. We were anticipating like a thirty minute episode tonight. Yeah, sorry about just because it is it is Friday night. It's late.
I got a soccer game in the morning, we have, you know, I got I'm refereeing in the afternoon. Yeah, you gotta flight tomorrow. So before we wrap things up, Yes, one quickie hit that we want to do, and it revolves around the little teaser that we throughout at beating of the show. So drew details on this one. All right, So we did mention the Beckett interview that we had from a couple of months
ago. But if you check out a couple of weeks ago when we had John Scanlon on the show from Denver Card Shows, where we talked all about the new trimming scandal, when everybody was when the quote unquote trap house of the Hobby, when that beautiful beautiful slogan was coined forever by John. On the show, we talked a lot. He talked a lot about his PSA experience and about how he was blown off when he tried to speak with them,
and about how he was really upset at how he was treated. And you went into some pretty good detail on that and I highly recommend you check out that episode. Well, I got a phone call from John this morning Friday morning, are as we're recording Friday night, the seventh, I got a phone call from him and I was like, oh, this is interesting, and I picked up, so what's up and he was like, Hey, I just wanted to let you know that PSA reached out to me,
and I was like about what. I was confused. I honestly forgot that we had talked so much about that, And he was like, well, they actually called and said you just did an interview on a podcast recently about PSA and stuff, right, And he's like, well, yeah, it was more about the trimming scandal and everything and about how y'all treated me like shit, but yes I did, yeah, and PSA wasn't the focus.
It was more about the you know, the guy that just got arrested because scammed like eight hundred thousand dollars worth of car, you know, fake car. Yeah, the interviews all about that. PSA was just a side thing where he was telling his story about how he tried to notify people. Well, PSA reached out to him, spoke to him about for about twenty minutes, and apologized greatly for everything that happened, assured him that you know,
obviously the regime has changed significantly since then. None of those people that were there really there anymore if they are there not in any of those same positions, but spoke to him, talked to him, got his feedback on things that they could do better, talked about how they would handle social media dms and people bringing this stuff to their attention in the future, and really had a small little focus group conversation kind of like what back it's doing if you
will with them and said how much they appreciated him going on the show, how much they loved the interview, and how much they wanted to help in the future. And I thought that was awesome. I mean, we I already knew that when people at PSA listen to the show. Look, I talked to him. A lot of people at PSA listen to the show. Yes, yes, very and so I'm glad. I'm glad to hear that,
and I love to see stuff like that. And like I said, again, guys, if you didn't listen to that interview, it's one of my favorites of the year so far, definitely a leading contender for one of my favorites of the year so far. I mean, look, no disrespect to John, but it's only April. Yeah, I know, no, I agree. I agree, but but John's got the heads up on the
first quarter. And you know, I just thought it was awesome that PSA actually reached out to him found his information because I didn't give it to him. UM got his number, he didn't give it to him, and was able. It's not hard look at that he runs it. You know, he's a show promoter. I'm just saying they couldn't hit him up on Instagram
and send him some bullshit message or send him some bs email. But the fact they took the time out to actually call him and have a discussion with him about it and actually talk to him about you know, what did you do in this process? How can we improve this and you know, sharing him of you know, new safeguards in place and things like that. I thought it was pretty awesome. So yeah, I'm happy. I was pleasantly surprised when you sent me that this afternoon, and you know, happy with
the way they did it. Now, I do want to, you know, point out that for those of you remember the story behind this and the interview and all that kind of stuff, um PSA wasn't really a fault other than just blowing him off. Right for you know, DMS things like that. That was the only thing that they get it wrong. Yeah, they're not gonna you know, somebody was down there counterfeiting their slabs. Yeah. Um, it's very difficult, you know, to say that PSA was responsible
for that, because they're not. No, you know, I just want to put it. I just want to so, I just want to, you know, for those people that are you know that ever thought that you know, there was an impression that that we gave me like oh no this said, oh it is a PSA scandal that no, no, no, no, no, no no no no, no, no no. The scandal itself had nothing to do with PSA other than the fact that the guys that were counterfeiting the slabs counterfeited there's instead of somebody else's. And when they
were provided the information, they didn't take it. They should have outside exactly nothing to do with it, no, exactly. And we we did point out during the ship during that interview that it was the old regime, yes at PSA, not the current you know, not the current regimes run the company now. Um, you know, but I just don't, like I said, I just want to put that out there because it's you know, It was not a you know when we discussed, was not a slam on
PSA. No, no, you know, but there there might be some people out there that you know, hear us giving the update and old PSA reached out and apologize. Nor Look, the only thing they had to apologize for was something that somebody did years ago, and that all they did was just brush they guy, you know, brush off. That was it. But again, we're talking about people that are probably aren't with the company ay
and probably haven't been for several years. So you know, the fact that they reached out now even though it's you know, it's all new people that are running a show over there. Um, you know that apologize that, hey, you know, how can we do things better and spend twenty minutes talking to John about it. Um. I think it says a lot as a company, and that's really why I wanted to bring it up, because I think it does show how much the uh, the new regime does pay
attention to everything's going on, and I was very happy about that. I do have to say, guys, you're at the mint next time, maybe don't do on site grating and if you do, uh, maybe uh stack yourself a little bit better because I really don't want to have to handle y'all's line on Saturday, because you can't, even though we took care of it in about an hour. But that's a completely different story for probably off the
air. But yeah, that's a private that's a private conversation. Whoever is responsible for that slide into the jerwisdems and yeah, you know you guys, we'll we'll discuss that. I'll talk to the right people on that later. But yeah, I loved I loved hearing that. And like I said, that's why we do these interviews. It's not just it's to get the attention to people sometimes, you know, it's we want to tell a story.
We wanted John's story to be out there. But at the same time, you've got a major company in the industry that's listening to that interview and just here's their name being brought up. And like you said, they were not the focal point of this at all, but they heard something and said, wait a minute, we can do better at this. Maybe we should reach out to this guy. And they did and they told him. They said,
we absolutely loved the interview. We thought it was excellent, they said, but we wanted to make sure that we talk to you, and so I think that's the type of that's what I want to see. Since we were talking about Becketting everything before and their disconnect from the customer and the actual
hobbyist, here's a major example of the difference. Yep, this company understands the hobbyist and the collector and wants to reach out to them to make sure that everything's cool and see what they can do better, as opposed to thinking they know everything and thinking they can just ride and depend on their name and
they can make any change they want. And people are just kind of blindly following because that's the that's the observation from the other quote unquote big whatever number you want to call them, probably fourth now, but you know, and hey, look at us, look at us affecting change in the industry. I know, who would it die? It's our good it's our good. Date of the year it is, and it's only April and we're knocked and we're tapped out. I know that's what you guys are all screwed until January.
Yeah, yeah, we're only look, we're only given you know, we're only given one of these a year, and we used it up early, so we are we are out of Fox to give. I'm sorry it resets resets January first, so good luck with that. Yeah, no Fox and no Fox given until twenty twenty four. And on that note, mister Rappaport, I think it's probably a good time to end this week's show. What do you think I would agree? I gotta get over early to play
soccer. I'm right there, or whatever words would ever come out of my valve, I didn't either tell you the truth, but hey, I like it. But before we go, guys would like to, of course, thank our awesome sponsors. We gotta show your slabs, Slab Strong, Denver card shows of course, Treasure Hunter, Sports Cards, Card Ladder, and our brand new sponsor, stand Up Displays. Thank you guys so much for us sponsoring the show. Really looking forward to having stand up displays on board.
You guys will be able to check out some of their awesome stuff and some of our awesome displays that we actually will probably grab some and put some up for sale if you guys would like some as well. For letter it, let me get that potograph of a lot of that stuff here in the near future. I think you know what I think we may we may, I think we may offer up some autograph versions of those two Yes, yes,
definite. Well yeah, well we'll sign you know, I say, well, we'll have the regular versions up and then you know, if you guys want autograph versions of that, we are glad to do that. Yeah, we're gonna do some really fun stuff with that. And I will say there's a couple of things that works in the pipeline that we're very excited about as we make the road now from April until the end of July beginning of August for the nationals, and really cool stuff coming up that you guys are
not gonna want to miss. But very glad to welcome stand up displays on board to all of our awesome sponsors. Once again, thank you guys so much. Of course, new episode of letter Rip will be out next week. We have an episode Live from the Mint. If you didn't get a chance to check it out with Jeff Hoffer from Panini, he was able to
join me. Make sure to check that episode out if you haven't. As a giveaway, we'll be put up this week, but you must watch the episode otherwise you won't know how to get in the giveaway, so make sure to check that out as well. Another new episode will come back next week when I'm back from floor with Revolution Soccer, which Scott has some great luck with. We'll see how Oh yeah, hopefully mine's as good as his was, but you hope, so I hope, so, yes, that episode
will be up. And then also, of course Hobby Hotline every single Saturday and then the first Tuesday of every month is instead of every Tuesday, it's gonna be the first Tuesday of every month and then every Saturday as usual. But yeah, so a lot of awesome stuff coming up, guys, But Scott always a pleasure to do the show man. I'm glad to be back. Yeah, enjoy Florida. We'll talk when you get back. Absolutely, we'll tell then, guys, you know the deal. Keep ripping those packs,
pulling those hits. We'll talk to you then. Pace