Welcome to Beyond Sunday, an extension of the preaching ministry here at Leamington EMC. I am Pastor Jonah Chitty and I am joined today by. Joe. Pastor Joe Penner Joe, how are you today? I'm doing good. Is it? Is it sadden you that the snow is melting? It is very sad. Is it? Is it sad? Yes. See, I'm I've said this to so many people. Everybody knows this already. I doubt it. When it's, if it's going to be cold, there might as well be snow. And some people might say, well,
I'd rather be warm. To which I agree, probably. I agree probably I prefer the warmth. But at the same time it's like this like cold and then it snows and then it warms and melts and gets mucky and messy. I'm like, I'd sooner just have like 3 or 4 months of like nice cold weather. There's snow on the ground. You can build a ice rink or. You can have fun with it. Go play in the snow and then then we get back to spring and summer. Yeah, I don't know.
I I like it all. I I like cold weather. So, yeah, growing up in the heat make this so silly, right? But I love cold weather, so. Yeah. OK. So we heard a sermon based on Nehemiah chapter 4 on Sunday. Pastor Jake preached a sermon. He called have faith in God when facing opposition. He had five points in his sermon and they were his first point was interesting enough the the same as the title so that's easy. The first point was have faith
in God when facing opposition. Jealousy and anger and fear can cause problems when they're all linked together. He said that in there when they're all together, big problems come. His second point was pray to God when facing opposition. So pray Third Point was when opposed in faith, keep moving forward. His fourth point, stand guard against attack on God's work. And then his .5 was sort of related was equipping yourselves to stand guard against that attack.
So yeah, he used several different illustrations from other texts to help as he as he preached through this passage. Pastor Joe, you had a chance to listen to the sermon. Yes, Sir. What do you think? What was what was going on? Yeah, it was. He started off with, I kind of wanted to start where he started off in the very beginning of the sermon he talked about in his introduction, you know, things sometimes in life start off good, but then they go bad. Like he used it like marriage or
a new job as an example. And so I wanted to be super. Smiling at me. Might as well start off with a whole bunch of tension, get ourselves into some trouble. Do you remember any like, tension from the beginning of your marriage? Obviously, like everything leading up to the wedding and you're excited and you're excited for like this, all this planning and everything to be done. And then the marriage starts. Like, do you remember like tension that you and Val had at
the beginning of your marriage? Thanks a lot. I mean, there's been so much tension. We're 15 years. I think you guys are married 15 years too, right? Yeah. Yeah. So 1515 years. And that's a long time ago to think about. But yeah, probably, like, I mean, just the normal stuff, she would probably have different answers, right? That's the thing about marriage is like, she probably kept a lot of stuff from me. Like that was really annoying
her. And she was just like trying to keep the peace that she's a peacemaker and so she would do whatever she can. But like, arguments in the kitchen like that still happen now. Like, you know, like we do things way different as far as like cooking and cleaning and all of that stuff. And we both like it clean, but like order of operations is way different. I like to clean as I go. She likes to wait and clean it all after. And I'm just like, this is disgusting.
How can we eat like and know what's happening right now? We need to clean. But she thinks the opposite. It's like it's fine. It's just one of those things like, But those little things like that, you expect everything's going to be roses and everybody's going to know exactly what I'm used to. And then you, then you, then you merge your life together. And then you realize, hold on, this is way different than I was expecting. She cooks nothing like my mother.
And yeah, anyway, I just got myself in trouble now. But, yeah. So what about you? Well, that's really funny. Like those little things that you think of, they just like it's, they're the tiniest things, like like the typical things, right? You know, they're laughable right now. Yeah. If she was sitting here, I might not be laughing. It's like, because it's because it's real tension. Like the little stuff draws out real tension. Right. We're real tough when our wives aren't around.
I'm really like dreading pushing like the the upload button on this podcast. I, I'll, I'll share this story. I, I don't think I'll get in trouble for this because we share this story with people anyway, but it, it's not, it's just really funny, honestly to me. But early on in our marriage, I don't know that it's a fight or attention. I remember we lived in this little apartment for like the first year of our marriage.
And I remember we went to like this liquidation store and we bought a massive like box full of family sized macaroni and cheese boxes. And so like we could, they were, these boxes were so big, we couldn't even eat a whole family size Mac and cheese. So we like had like separated and we just joked it like that first year of our marriage. It's like we ate Mac and cheese so much and it's just, to me, it's just funny. But yeah, I mean, we had little arguments. Whose decision was it to buy?
I don't remember the wholesale quantity of family size boxes of Mac. We did it together, but let me tell you, I mean, just she makes Mac and cheese for the kids now too, but she can make Mac and cheese like nobody's business. You know, she's a professional Mac and cheese maker. She makes far better food than that. But but anyway, but I would say at the beginning, like, you know, again, like you think marriage is you. You literally get into this mindset.
It's like we're going to get married and everything's going to be great. And then you fight about the dumbest thing. Well, part of it is this is this isn't a podcast on marriage. We'll get to an EMI four in a minute. But like, part of it is like when you're dating, you're both trying to put on like the best face possible and you're both trying to to like, like appeal
to the other person. And so you're like, maybe you agree to watch something on the movie that you weren't really interested in. Like, I love action movies and and comedies and Valerie loves period pieces, but she watched comedy movies and action movies when we were dating. And so like, once we got married and she didn't want to watch it anymore. Like, what in the world? This is what I like to watch. And so, yeah, those are the things like you don't like. Because a part of it is that
reason, right. Like you're. Yeah. Like you're trying to make good. Like you're in to put your best forward and like, get them to like you just like, just be yourself, right? And you end up being yourself. And it causes like, like what Pastor Jake said, he starts off really, really good. And then like 6 or 8 months in, maybe sooner than that, right? You realize, oh man, who is this person I married? Yeah, I'm talking about Valerie asking that question, not me.
I would never ask that question. Who is this person I married? You start to get more comfortable with each other and more open and more honest. And so yeah, anyway, I I thought that was kind of funny. But yeah, I know we've had our fair share. No one thing silly little arguments. And hopefully, I think we're much more for now, I mean. Yeah, but you guys dated a long time before you got married, right? Yeah. It wasn't like long long, but. You knew each other just. Over a year, yeah.
Yeah, we did. We did know each other a long time. Yeah. So Valerie and I knew each other like maybe a year before we got married. Yeah. No, not even a year. So like, it was, that was even harder because you don't know each other. Like you have no time. There's no frame of reference other than what you're dating. And so it's like, anyway, yeah, maybe one day we have time we can talk more about like the marriage topic, you know? Anyway, I think it might be fun.
Right. But yeah, here in the Nehemiah 4, that's sort of exactly like, that's exactly what happens, right? Like we, we've gone through a lot of hard things about how this project whole got started and got underway, but finally it's like the work is getting done and it seems like everything's going well, but then our position comes in and problem starts to creep in and we got problems. We got problems. So problems come from three places in Nehemiah Chapter 4.
Problems come from verbal assault, right in the beginning. They come from physical assault and they come from within two. There's some, there's some like we're like scared. We're not. There's too much trouble. Remember that part in the yeah, there's too much. There's too much stuff. We can't like overcome the obstacle that is the wall itself. And so there's a little push back there. But Nehemiah urges them to go on. We see, we see the problems and then we see the people's
response throughout the chapter. What do you think about in pregatory prayers? Yeah. Sorry, just like jump right in there. Why don't you explain? Why don't you explain that bit? Yeah, so in pregatory prayers are prayers the against people like you're praying for the Lord to bring down judgment against your enemies. And we see that a lot in the Psalms. We see it a lot in the Old Testament. We see both Paul and Jesus quote in pregatory Psalms in their writing.
So like in in the Gospels, we see Jesus quote it and in in Romans, we see Paul quote them sometimes. And so they're not, they're not prayers that are selfish prayers for vengeance. They're they're prayers for for God's justice to be to be done. And so, yeah, so we see an example of that here in Nehemiah 4. I'll just read that. So this is after a sandblot in his cronies jeer the Jews. And then in verse 4 we see a prayer from Nehemiah. Here, O God, here, O our God,
for we are despised. Turn back their taunt on their own heads and give them up to be plundered in a land where they are captives. Do not cover their guilt and let not their sin be blotted out from your sight, for they have provoked you to anger in the presence of the builders. And then so we built the wall. So I mean, he's saying like, whatever they're saying against us, may it be against themselves. Is it, is it wrong to pray that
kind of prayer, Pastor Joe? I struggle with it a lot because I'm just thinking of like, you know, what I, what I, what I practically do that now. And I, yeah, I don't think I would, I don't think I would have the confidence. I mean, this is scripture. And so these, these people have the confidence and, and the boldness to, to, to pray in, in a way that, you know, they're, they're aligned with God's will.
I would struggle to know if my heart was in the right place to pray that, to pray that sort of prayer. You know, I think my heart, if I was praying this prayer today, it's like an enemies were attacked against me. Don't get me wrong. I mean, there's times where in my flesh it's like, you just want vengeance, right? You want, you want revenge. You want.
But again, that's, that's the selfish aspect of it where it's like, am I just wanting that for my own sort of like my own justice that that's what I want to happen. But Nehemiah is concerned about, you know, Jake brought this out in the sermon that he's concerned about God's glory, that they are going against God. He realizes that like these people aren't opposing me, they're opposing God.
And so he has insight into that. But if I were to pray this prayer, I might pray like man, Lord, change their hearts so that they come alongside us and like they realize that you're the only true God and they want to come along and work with us and be a part of what we're doing, you know, like instead of opposing us. But there's a there's a sense in which we as even as New Testament Christians in the new covenant, like we do recognize, OK, well, there is coming today
when all of God's enemies will be judged right. And we actually have a song. We we sing a song. I, we introduced a song this last year, Psalm 145. How great. By solving grace music. And in that Psalm, we actually sort of sing that same song, like that same sort of thing where it's like we know that one day God is going to make every wrong right. Like he's going to destroy his enemies. You're pulling it up right now. Maybe you can read that for us.
If I can get there. But yeah, in this song, it's, it's sort of alluding to that same sort of thing, that God's enemies are going to be destroyed. You know, I'll pull up the lyrics of the song too, just so that I get that right. But. Yeah. But I think that's where it's, it's important for us to maybe understand maybe more of what's going on there instead of, you know, just assuming that, you know, Nehemiah is not wrong, right? Yeah, exactly. No, I mean, he's upheld.
He's actually upheld, right to be right. Verse 20 in this says the Lord preserves all who love him, but all the wicked he will destroy. Yeah. And that's in verse. That's Psalm 14520. Yeah. And in some way we are, we do have enemies that will be judged. And in fact, we are without God's grace, we, we would be certainly judged as well without God's grace and, and the blood of Christ covering our sin, right.
So, but yeah, I think like, I mean, we wouldn't like you said, it's really seems prideful to to pray a prayer like that. Or maybe maybe you think I'm not that bold. Like you said. I did read an example, like someone prayed, someone claimed that they prayed in purgatory prayer like recently and like against Planned Parenthood. And like the leader of Planned Parenthood recently died. So they claimed that they prayed a prayer on Sunday and then she died on Monday. I don't.
It's one of those crazy stories. Yeah. But who knows, right? I wouldn't, I wouldn't have the courage to pray that My prayer would be. I think I shared this in our Wednesday night class. But my prayer in that situation would be your prayer. What you said earlier is like, Lord, this is not just, you know, for, for the sake of your name, save this person, you know, make them understand they're wrong and draw them to yourself. I think that's a Christian prayer. Yeah, right.
The desire for all to be saved is an evangelistic and a Christian prayer. And then the Lord is going to do his justice however he deems fit.
So whatever happens, happens. But at the same time, like I don't think like I'm not praying like heaping coals on someone's head, Like that's just not me. But at the same time, I think there's a place for it. Like when they're when, when God, when God is being mocked blatantly and there is no like sign of repentance or no, like you see them hope for it. You just pray that the Lord would just deal with it. I think that's, that's what that's what Nehemiah is doing
here. He's just praying that the Lord would just deal with this. Well, and I think that's I think that's a faithful understanding of God's justice because for for us, again, like you said, I think we got to be real cautious and careful about how we do that and how we go about that, making sure our hearts in the right place. But that rightly does understand that God's justice against guilty sinners is to judge them and for his wrath to fall on
them. Right. So God is just in in scenario one, to save people and to not count their sins against them if they place their faith in Jesus Christ. He is just to do that. He's also just to condemn them when they refuse that sacrifice and when they turn against his ways and so. Which is verse 5. Do not cover their guilt. Yeah, and not let their sin be blotted out from your sight,
right? And actually this reminds me of like I'm, I'm teaching the baptism class on Wednesday nights and we had this conversation in one of our classes where we talked about, you know, who God is and his character and his nature. And as we talked about it, we talked about, well, OK, well, man has sinned. And so couldn't God just, yeah, you know what, everybody's sinned, whatever, no big deal it all sin is forgiven and it's
fine. And we go, well, is that, does that make God good and righteous and just? And so we thought about that for a while, but then it's like, well, let's, let's make it practical, right? Let's make it a, let's make it a judge here in Leamington who, who's a, he's a judge. And I don't even know that we have judges here in Leamington. You might have to go to Windsor court. Let's say there's a judge in
Windsor who judges cases. And, you know, let's say you got a, a guy who, who's a rapist or a murderer or whatever. And he's a, he's stolen out of like 20 different stores in the area. And he comes in and he's prosecutor and he's brought in for the judge. And this case is laid out. And the judge is like, you know what? It's not a big deal, just you're free to go. Just don't do it anymore. Right is is anybody like, oh wow, what a what a good judge like that judge is like really good.
He upholds the law like he's really right. No, everybody's like outraged, right. He's. Like just judge, right? How could you let that guy go? He's guilty. And so for us to say to act like God should just like, you know, overlook sin, and that would make him a good, no, that doesn't make him a good judge. That makes him an evil judge, a wicked judge. You know, he's just to do it based on our faith in Christ because we are putting faith in the way that he has made for us to be saved.
But if people reject that, then he is just to condemn people based on their choice to follow their sin. And so to that end, I think we should pray for justice, you know. And so again, we ought to be very cautious and careful about where our hearts are at when we're doing that. But I think to pray a prayer that that wicked people would be judged for their sin is faithful because God is just and he's going to do that in my heart. I immediately go that drives me back to the throne of grace,
right? Because if I'm praying like Lord, I pray that you condemn wicked sinners for their sinfulness for their the fact that they're opposing you like you just said before, that immediately drives me back to the cross in worship because I go, I deserve that. I just. I mean, all of the sin is paid for. Wicked's all accounted for. Like it just who paid for it, right?
Like who paid for your sin? Well, you can either pay for it yourself or you can place your faith and trust in Christ and and trust that he paid for it. Yeah, on your behalf. Yeah, man. Yeah. It should drive us back in worship. It's really good. Really, really good. What else stood out in Chapter 4 to you, Pastor Joe? Yeah, well, just, I mean, obviously Jake tied in again, like Nehemiah constantly going back to God, right? He constantly comes to God in prayer, you know, through all of
the opposition, his his. And this is just consistent with the whole book so far that his primary thing is to go back to God time and time and time again. He's not trying to solve everything on his own. I mean, he does, he does act, he does do things, but not before going to the Lord in prayer. And he just, you just you really get the sense that he has a really deep intimate relationship with the Lord and just constantly goes to him in
prayer. And this gives him confidence to do the things that he does because he just trusts God that much. And I really liked what what Jake said that when we turn to God in prayer, you know, it's not that we're changing God's mind or, or anything like that. It's like we begin to align ourselves with what God is doing, which I thought was a helpful way of, of thinking through that because it is so true. It helps us to remember that God is God.
He's eternal, he's in control, He knows what he's doing and we can trust him. Yeah, verse verse 9 and we pray to our God and then the second part of that verses and set a guard as protection against them day and night. Doctor Betts in his commentary said like the pattern of Nehemiah's life is to pray 1st and then to act. And I thought that was hopeful to, to understand what's going
on in this chapter. Yeah, because no, they're not attacking their enemies, but they are setting up like firm defense, right? It's the it's the sword and the trowel they're holding at the same time, right? They're working with a a hand like a right hand on their sword, and they're working with. Building the wall, the images like they're doing the same thing, always ready for for
attack to come. But that pattern, we've seen it since the beginning when Nehemiah heard of the of the problems that they were having in Jerusalem, he like he prayed, right? He spent lots of time in prayer and then then he was given the opportunity to act. And so we see it again here. He prays and then they act. Yeah. And I just think that's really good application for us to be thinking about in our lives,
right? Like when difficulties come, when trials come, when hurts come, you know, whatever comes in our life where we're tempted, you know, sort of with the theme of this passage, whether it's enemies come and you know, people mock you or slander you or or say things that are not true about you or whatever the case is, right?
Whatever opposition comes and we're tempted to like pull off of doing the work that we're doing, or maybe we feel embarrassed or whatever, or like to stop doing what God is calling us to do. What is our first response, right? To look at that in the flesh and to make a judgement, to make a decision? Or do we immediately run to the Lord?
And, and again, sort of going back to like previous sermons in this series, It's like when you do the, the work on the front end to be prayerful in like, is this actually what the Lord wants me to do? Once you finally, you know, put your hand to the trowel, you're confident that already that it's the Lord's word. And so now it's just a matter of, OK, maybe going back to going back to the Lord and saying, I was very confident that you asked me to do this.
This is, and I was very confident of that. Like you need to be at work here. Like I'm trusting you. Like give me the confidence to continue going ahead with what I was confident that you asked me to do, right. And if there's something that I missed or whatever, then make that plain to me and and show me the direction. Otherwise heaping coals on their heads, right, like right. I think that's that's really
good. Like when we face opposition, especially in something that we've already determined in our heart that this is God's will, like we should expect opposition. It's coming. Like, I think that's that's one thing that we can learn from This is like, Yep, everybody started to build the wall. Everybody from their neighbor and all to their house to the neighbor's house. Everybody built their own section of the wall. Everything seemed good.
Everything was going to work toward according to plan. We should expect some opposition. Like they knew San Balat was coming, right? He's not, it's not the first time we've heard about him, right? Heard about him earlier in the book. Now he's coming and he's being more vocal and that and then he's then he's up like he's going to like try to attack them physically and we're going to sneak up on him and take him by surprise, right. That's come, that comes up later.
Yeah, yeah. And then we need to expect the opposition. So like I think that's a good lesson for us. Like you said, application, like if we are going to do that, we can be like for whatever we're doing, gospel ministry, out giving evangelism, like evangelism at the park, whatever we're trying, whatever initiative we're taking here as far as just thinking about our discipleship initiative we talked about last week.
Yeah, like expect opposition, expect people to not understand what you're trying to do. Yeah, right. Expect to have to provide more clarity. Expect to have to convince people and then ask the Lord, OK, Lord, this is what we feel like you want us to do. I'm expecting opposition and we need you to work in their hearts, right? We need you to like convince them because at some point we can't like we can't do it so.
Well, even like, you know, use the example of a discipleship group, or let's just say you've, you've maybe not always come faithfully to church or come faithfully to Bible study, or you've never been in AD group and now you commit yourself to do it. We're going to come to church every Sunday. Yep.
Well, guess what? The kids are getting sick and this starts to happen and the tire just went flat on the car and like, and I'm not going to get into the whole, you know, I think there's spiritual warfare and some of those things. I'm not going to get into the whole like, you know, we don't need to find a demon under every rock sort of thing.
But the point is it's like things are going to start to happen where it's like now you're going to be tempted to be like, wow, maybe I'll just miss D Group this week or or maybe I'll just miss this, you know? And there's times to do that, right? There's times where it's like, you know what, sometimes the issue is so pressing that you just need to do that and staying home with the kids because they're sick. Yeah, that's going to happen
every once in a while too. But I'm just saying it's like, that's sort of the opposition, right? And you need to press through that and go. It's like, no, I committed to doing this. I committed to D Group and I'm going to be faithful to go. Yeah, it is a conviction, right? That's the thing you have to like, you have to have in your mind like a, like a, like a deep conviction. This is what I think the Lord is asking me to do right now. Yeah.
And then to live on your convictions is to say, no matter what comes, I'm going to make progress in this area. And that doesn't mean you're going to do it perfectly, but you're going to make progress in this area. Like I'm going to like if you've got this conviction that you're going to fight against the world and not allow your family to be sucked into media 24/7, like whatever, whatever type of media, TV, social media, whatever, you can't, you can't
give in at the first weakness. Like you can't give in to your kids, which you think might be the hardest thing, but I think hardest thing in that situation would be your family like yourself, like it would be for me. Is this a conviction or not? If it's not, then you're not going to do it. You're not going to follow through. But if it is, you feel like it's from the Lord, you're going to follow through. Because we know that when we're conviction about things, you're
picking a side. Like that's the thing about convictions is like, I have this strong conviction that this is right. Yeah. Well, there's somebody out there that thinks it's wrong, right? There's always going to be somebody on the opposite side. And so we're never going to be able to, like to make happy everybody when you're conviction about something, right? And especially if you're fighting against the world. Yeah. Because it's hard. That's a battle. Absolutely, anyway.
Well, I think it's even good to be thinking about, you know, maybe maybe there's opposition, maybe there's stress, maybe there's tension in your life regarding who knows what, right? But maybe that's an opportunity for you to go. Like I made the point before that it's like when you're really convinced that God wants you to do something, that gives you the boldness to continue pushing through it, trusting in God, praying for him to give you strength because you're
convinced that it's his will. But if you're not and you're going through a really difficult season and you're under pressure and you're under stress and you feel overwhelmed, maybe that's a sign that you need to slow down and something needs to come off the. Plate. Oh, that's a good point. And maybe you need to slow down and go. Maybe I shouldn't have been doing that in the 1st place. That's a good point.
Maybe I've been piling on and doing too much like something that I will often tell people like every once in a while we we really need positions filled here at the church or we need people to do different things. And so I'll. Every once in a while, every once in a. While we always need people to help, we'll, we'll message a bunch of people, I'll text people.
And when I'm talking with someone, I'm always very intentional go I, I don't want you to sacrifice your personal life like 'cause often times you're, you're messaging people that are already serving in one or two areas or whatever. And so I'm always very intentional to say you are the only one who knows your boundaries. You're the only one who knows how much is on your plate.
And I don't want you to say yes to something just because you want to say yes to it. You need to look at your life and you need to evaluate like, you know, I, I appreciate people who, who share, share this with me that it's like when I'm going to add something, I, I perfectly consider what else needs to come off. That's how intentional I am with my schedule. And I think that's, I think that's a really helpful way for people to be thinking about it.
You need to look at your life as a plate and how much can I handle, how much can fit on the plate? And if something else is going to come on, that means something else has to go off. And I think if we thought more intentionally about our life that way, we wouldn't be as stressed and running around as we are. But we just continually add things.
And I think some of it is guilt. And that's why I'm very careful, as you know, as a pastor, to not make people feel guilt tripped into doing something because I don't want someone to be adding stress into their life as though I'm guilt tripping them into doing something. It's like, no, this should be a very intentional decision on your part to do something that you feel like God is calling you to do. And that may mean you need to pass something else off.
So I guess I just mean to add that to say, maybe you're running around and you're acting, you feel crazy and you just feel overwhelmed. And maybe that's a sign that you know, you are you convinced that that was what you, the Lord wanted to do. And maybe it needs to come off and and maybe you shouldn't have done it in the first place. Or, or maybe you filled your plate up with way too much
stuff, like of, of other things. And you need to like, in order to do this, you would have to remove 5 things, right? Like, I think that's something that you, you just hit on like something about like just our lives that are busy thinking about. I don't know, maybe it's something I've been thinking on for a while, but I think I've told you this like I want to do less better.
Like I just want to, I want to do less things in my life and I want to be able to do them like the best possible way that I can do them. And so like that what that requires is, is taking everything that I do and putting it on the board and just saying and then wiping it clean and then say what is the most important thing that I, that's
non negotiable has to sit here. You know, for me, it would be if I'm just thinking about like the way I spend my time, Bible reading, prayer, like my personal devotion would be up there. Time with my wife would be up there. Yeah, like specific time with my kids would be up there. Church would be up there. But but those are the things like it can't be like all the different things that I want to do, like hobbies even like the things that we pile in just to try to keep up with whoever.
It has to go. Like it can't be, especially if you want to serve like the Lord in something you have, like you're going to have to eliminate maybe four or five things from your personal life in order to do something. And, and that takes a lot, man. And that that's, it's a hard ass sometimes because for family people like for parents, like it's not just me that that can decide, right? Like if you're single, you can decide whatever you want for your life. You can make a change like that
and everything changes. It's fine. It's pivot. No matter, no matter what, no one's really impacted but you. But if you have a family, you're, you're impacting everybody in your family. But just want like, if you change, like, like I'm just thinking about our schedule. If we change like two things, like everybody's impacted, right? Like the schedule's tight sometimes. And so the more kids you add, the more tight it gets.
And so, yeah, anyway, it's something I've been thinking about, but I would love to do. I, I would think that would be a good motto for even like the church, like like being involved in programs or whatever we're trying to accomplish, like do less and just do it really, really well. Yeah. And I think, I think that comes down to the point of like I'm trying to trying to keep this make sure we're still tied to Nehemiah 4. I know. Well, I think, I think we are
though, like I think. What were they doing? Right. They were convinced that building the wall was the most right thing for them to be doing in that moment, right? And they were so convinced that they were willing to face opposition. And I think, you know, again, the sort of the point of this podcast is really to give feet to like what we're doing it to be more intentional with application.
And I think when you're thinking about your life sort of to the point that you're making about how busy we are and the things that are priorities, I think we need to be asking ourselves what are the most important things that we can be doing. There's countless things that you can be doing with your life, right? And like you said, once you have kids and you know, you add a sporting event or something like that and you know, one kid. Is music lessons anything?
Right. One kid stays after school to do this program at the school, and then other kids are involved in this sport and it's like, you just realize how quickly your time runs out. And like you said, it affects the whole family. And so those things aren't bad, but but they need to fall in line in the line of priorities, right? That it's like, what is the most
important thing, right? Because, you know, we would say that it's more important for us to be, you know, spending quality time with our wives, discipling our wives. It's more important for us to be spending time discipling our children, teaching them how to be faithful and following Christ. And so if, if sports or other things get in the way of me doing the thing, that's more important now we have to start asking hard questions and we have to start weighing those things out.
Is it really worth it then, because I, I don't get to do this right. So everybody has to, to work through that yourself. And I think most times you can, you can still make it work in a way that whatever. I'm just, but you can't keep adding, you know, like, you know, each kid has three or four different things that they're doing throughout the week. It's like, well, OK, now, now
you're just being crazy, right? Like you have to limit that so that you can do things that are that are so valuable and important. So like in Nehemiah, Nehemiah came, he sat in the rubble and then he prayed and he decided the wall need to be rebuilt. That was the most important pressing thing that had to happen. And they did it quick. They did the the low wall quick and then they had the work had to continue right to make it taller. Opposition comes.
So like, what would the opposition be like if we just so like our goal and whatever this thing is that our family chose to be the most important thing? Like we would say it's discipleship in our family. Then like the opposition comes. It's like, OK, it's all the added things that come up in life, the opportunities to do something that's not the main thing. And so like, that's it.
They may be good things, like they they really might be good, but they don't they don't like tie into the wall building. And so I think that's, that's the point, like, like if it doesn't tie into your wall building, like what you prioritize for your family to go back to your volunteering thing,
that's OK to say no, right? But I would say, does your wall building conflict what your church is doing and what your church is like the the people who God has placed in your life, like pastors and ministerial people who like who are leading the church, the church you're a part of, does it conflict there? And that's the question. I would either do some soul searching, is my wall building in opposition to the wall building at the church? And maybe that's a stretch, but
I don't, I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud. I think that like we, we have to re evaluate. We have to constantly evaluate. Is this lining up with the goal that I think God is doing in the community right now? I think it's fair because Paul says in First Corinthians chapter 12 that we're a body. We're one body, right?
And so if you really consider that we're a part of this church and we're a part of one body together as, as believers and we are headed in one unified direction, doing 1 unified thing, then it's like, it does stand to reason that, well, the priority of the church then should be my priority, right? And so, and those are hard things, right? But I think all of us sense that tension in every area, right? Like, let's just dig working out.
For example, you might go, maybe you started out a workout resolution at the beginning of the year and you're like, you're just like, you know what, I want to work out four days a week, 20 minutes a day, whatever. It is OK. Now if you have like a personality, not everybody struggles with this personality. Some people are like, once the 20 minutes are done, I'm like, I couldn't get far enough away from working out, right? It's done, it's over with. I never want to think about it again.
But I think very quickly we can get into this mindset where it's like, oh, but now I need like bigger, better weights. And now I want to improve my time and I want to improve my weight. And like, now I want my biceps to be a certain shape, a certain diameter, you know, And it's like now you have these goals. And it's like that's where the, these, these goals, these outside opposition. Well, now it's like, now it's not just 20 minutes of working
out. It's like, well, now to achieve my goals, I'm actually going to have to spend a certain amount of money on protein and now it affects my finances. And but now I'm going to actually have to spend more time working out. It's going to take me an hour every day. And now it affects family time. And you just see the ripple effect of that.
And it's like, well, now this group of guys that meets in the gym on Wednesday night at 7:00 and they really pump the iron and those guys are going to help me get to the next level of my fitness. And I guess I can't go to Wednesday night discipleship now because. And so again, it's obviously an extreme exaggeration, like who knows if that's but you see that and, and it sounds silly, right?
But each and every one of us has been in a season where it's like you're tempted to give a little bit more to that hobby, right? I'm, I'm tempted to follow a little bit closer with the stats of my team, right? And give a little bit more so I know more. So the next time I have that conversation with my buddies, it's like I can give a little bit more insight from, you know what I mean? It's like you just start to see that's the opposition, right? It's like the world is gonna tempt us.
Satan is gonna use the world, the world, the flesh and the devil are fighting against us, right? And he's gonna try using the world to try luring us away from building God's Kingdom and to building our own kingdoms or like, distracting us from what God is doing. And it's so easy to get caught in those temptations, right? And we're constantly having to evaluate what is the most important thing, you know, as far as God is concerned. For what? How I can be spending my time?
Right. And Nehemiah would. Nehemiah's response would be always be on your guard. Yeah. Knowing that the opposition's coming, what did he tell them to do? He told them to arm themselves, arm yourself, keep your sword handy as you work. Yeah, it's the sword and the trowel. You, your hand is on your sword. In fact, like at the at the end of the chapters, like they didn't even really like leave their swords when they got a bath. Like they went to bathe, right.
Their sword was right next to them the whole time. Yeah. And so like his, his response is so it's so your response, like to to your example there is like you have to constantly be a like, aware that the opposition's coming and fight against it. Like you have to be ready to not go on the attack. I think that's I think that's the wrong language. I don't think Nehemiah is saying, hey, let's go attack
them, right? It was from a defensive position, but it didn't say, you know, allow it to the opposition to come and overrun you and overtake you. It's like, Nope, allow the opposition to come and when they come, defend yourself. Right. So like. So like when things come against your wall building, what are you doing about standing your guard, right? So that's the other thing, like, so like put protections in place in your life, the guardrails in place in your life. All right.
What is the sword that I need for to in order to like defend against the opposition I know is coming? I don't know what it is for everybody. Yeah. I don't have like real world examples but. Well, I think just to make the application that that Jake did in Ephesians chapter 6, I think is helpful because I know I've heard a lot of people say it's like most of the armor that you know, Paul mentions in Ephesians 6 is defensive armor. And the only offensive, you know
weapon is the sword. Which is the word of God. Which is the word of God. And I think when we as believers are in the word of God every single day, those those things are easier to see, right? If we're not in the word of God, it's easier for us to be deceived.
But every morning when we're being sharpened by God's word and it's dividing between our soul and our spirit, every single day, it's like it's a lot easier to see how Satan is using the world to try to distract us. And we can be on guard and we go, not today, You know, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not going there. I'm not doing that right. I'm committed to what the Lord wants me to do. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. The sword is our is our weapon and the sword in our, in our case is the word.
Yeah. So where do you see? And this is like maybe our final question, maybe this is too much for for the podcast like to put on the spot, but where do you see Christ in Chapter 4? Where do I see Christ in chapter 4? I think we touched on it some in the beginning, like this, like idea that like their judgement is coming, Like Jesus didn't come just to like to bring peace. You know, he came to judge. Yeah. And so I think that's part of it for me. But what would you say?
Well, yeah, I mean, I'm just so opposition to the work, right? Like when you think of Jesus's life, I mean, he was convinced of God's plan, God's plan for his life. He knew God's plan. He knew where he was going. You know, he set his face to Jerusalem and he knew what he had to do and all through his life it doesn't matter. Peter tried to get in his way and said, oh, it's never going to happen. No one's ever going to kill you. And he says, get behind me, Satan.
We see Satan at the very beginning of Jesus ministry, right? You know, here, here's a shortcut to ministry success. If you bow down and worship me, I'll give you all the stuff. Judas tried to try to do it. Yep, everybody. You know, all the leaders, like they tried to make him king, the people tried to make him king and you know, he sneaks out. He knows this is not the Lord's
plan. And you know, even himself praying in the garden, you know, if there's another way, I'll go that way, but not my will, but yours. You know, I'm paraphrasing all of these things, but I think, you know, he was, he knew what God's plan was for his life, that he was going to be the sacrifice for all mankind. He was going to be the once for all sacrifice that was going to make a way for people to come to God.
And so his God's plan for his life was so much bigger than himself, and he opposed he he stood strong, I guess, in the face of all of this opposition, everyone trying to get him to deviate from the plan, but he was committed to what God wanted. Similar patterns to of Nehemiah. Nehemiah's life was patterned by what? Prayer and then action. And then. So we often see Jesus going out alone to pray to make sure that he's in alignment with the Father. Yeah, dude, yeah, that's really good.
Lots of different ways to to see the parallel. Yeah, right. And it's in there. So I always want to try to draw that out. Like if we can, like when we're thinking about, especially in your Old Testament, easier. It's way easier in the New Testament to find Christ in in the text, but a little bit harder sometimes. But I don't think it was that hard. You can get it on the spot. So you did a good job putting you on the spot. Sorry. I think it gets easier the more
you do it right. I mean, I think the more, the more you begin to think about it. And, and again, there may be to explain the reason that we do this is because Jesus, you know, after rising from the dead, he, he meet, he met these these two men on the road to Emmaus and they're trying to figure out what all this meant, right? They're like, Hey, what are you Jesus? Like what are you guys talking about? Where have you been hiding under a rock? They're like, where have you been?
And it's like, man, this Jesus was here. He did all these miracles. He did all this teaching. We thought he was the Christ and then he died and then he was buried, but then he was. Now we hear this report that he's raised from the dead and it's like we have no idea what's going on. Like we're just so confused.
And then he just goes, man, you guys are just so slow of heart to believe all that was written in the prophets in the law and it beginning with the law, beginning with the prophets. He showed him how all of the Old Testament, what we call the Old Testament, how it all pointed to him. It was all fulfilled in him. And so we get our, our understanding of, of how now to read scripture. Now we don't just read it like it's, it's just a, a good history lesson that we learn from.
It's like, no, somehow, some way, this is now pointing us forward in a way that it points to Christ. And there's a fulfillment in Christ that, you know, Nehemiah does an excellent job following the Lord's leading. And you know, he, all of these stories are men and women who stood up in the face of trials. And then we're faithful to what God was asking to do in that moment. But ultimately, it finds its fulfillment in Christ because
it's all pointing us there. And so Christ is the fulfillment of all the law, all the prophets, and it finds its fulfillment in him. And now we don't need to build a wall anymore. We don't need to have a place where we go so that we can congregate as a nation and be protected from other nations. Our mandate is to make disciples. And so we go forward in Christ, you know, sharing the gospel with everybody. And so and so it's helpful for us.
But I think the more that we do that, right, the more that I've been encouraging people, it's like, you know, read, read the Old Testament, understand what it's saying in the context of what it's saying. And then when you're done explaining that, now begin to think about, well, how does this, how does this point me to Christ, right? What can I learn about this and how does it point me to Christ? And I think the more that you just, the more you do that, I
think the easier it gets. Maybe not always easy, but yeah, the more natural it becomes I guess is a better. Way right. It's almost it's it's almost impossible for a Christian to not read the scriptures as a Christian. So like, like it just happens to start you start to see yeah, like as you're reading it as God opens your eyes to behold the wonderful things in his law he's showing you and it's all about him and it's all about his son.
And then how it all fulfils is exactly right so well. And that's probably a really good point to bring up that we never, never read Scripture in our own wisdom or understanding, right? Like we cannot understand it apart from the Holy Spirit. And so if you want to see Christ more in the Scriptures, then be praying for that, be praying for the Holy Spirit to open your eyes. Yeah, for sure. You're preaching Sunday? Yes, Sir. Coming up, Nehemiah 5. Nehemiah 5 you. Already got you.
Already got it done I guess. No, not done. I got my outline. Awesome. I'm looking forward to it. You have any kind of insight on it yet? You can say no. I, I I some it's, it's good. I mean I. Am doing a great job putting in the spot. It's really interesting how like I think sort of the transition for me is it's like, well now like we've had a lot of opposition from the outside and you alluded to like some, some opposition from the inside and. It's still grumbling.
Yeah, yeah, it kind of got shut down quick. Exactly. And it's going to get a lot more pointed. And so now it's like now we transition from outside opposition to inside opposition and how they were causing problems themselves, right? Like they were not helping them themselves.
And now we see problems like now we're fighting within and just once again being emphasized that like God, God loves all people and specifically people who are are vulnerable and oppressed and are in a position to be taken advantage of by other people. God cares about those people. And you know, we need to be diligent to care for them, to love them, to minister to them, to protect them. Very good. Well, that's awesome, man. I think we can wrap it on there
like right at that point. Is that OK with you? Yeah, I enjoyed chatting about imprecatory prayer and it's just a fun thing to think about fun. It's not fun, but at the same time it's it's interesting, right? It's an interesting thing that happens in Scripture and also how how it all points to Christ. So I'll close in prayer today. I'll put you on the spot so much. I'll close this out in prayer. LMC, we are praying for you. Let us know how specifically. If you have a quest, we'd love
to hear from you. Well, let me pray, Father, thank you for the book of Nehemiah. Thank you for my brother Joe here and my brother Jake who preached the sermon on Sunday. I pray that you would, that you would use your word to open our eyes to understand the wonderful things in your law because your law points to you. And so we pray that you would, would continually reveal to us in the Scriptures the truth of, of Jesus and his and, and the grace that is shown through his
sacrifice. And Lord, I pray that we would that we would be steadfast in our commitment to you, steadfast in, in wall building in the, in what you've given us the, the task that you've given us to do. And Lord, I pray that that we would not be failures in that. So for your name's sake. And so, Lord, we pray this in in Jesus name, Amen, Amen. Have a great day.