Really. I go into a lot of meetings with my staff and they've got lots of ideas, and I don't like most of them until like two weeks later I decide I do because I learn new things, new information. I reserve the right to change my mind. I am not a stubborn I try not to be anyway, a stubborn leader. Where my way is the highway. I think our growth is indicative of my listening to smarter people about their specific niches, and I try to find people who are uniquely qualified.
That's Ryan Sirhand, CEO of Sir Hand the real estate brokerage, as well as my fellow Today's show guest, and someone who's built a business by staying open, adaptable, and relentlessly forward looking. You probably know Ryan from Million Dollar listing or from his massive social following, but in this conversation we get to see the strategists behind the showmen. Ryan and I have known each other four years, and this
felt more like catching up than conducting an interview. We talk about how he leads a team of over one hundred and sixty employees, what he's learned from launching a company in the middle of a pandemic, and how Ai is transforming real estate from the inside out. And yeah, we talk about hand modeling because of course we do. I'm furnished to Rabi and this is leading by Example executives making an impact. Ryan, Sir Hant, welcome to Leading by Example. My friend.
Excited to be back with you.
I know, we go way back and actually, fun fact, audience, Ryan and I are speaking virtually, but we actually saw each other in person this morning, because that's how much the universe wants us to hang out.
Yeah, so I walked into the dressing room at the Today Show and you were like, wait, you're not Sarah Jessica Parker. It's like, no, I'm not.
She was there though, but you were cooler. You're actually going to be in just like that again in the new season. Congrats on that.
Thanks playing the role of Ransore hand. Someone had to do it.
Someone had to do it.
Well.
You know, as you and I were chatting in the Today Show, my producer she's like, what's going on there? I said, Oh, I'm interviewing Ryan later for Leading by Example, and you know he's got an incredible story. Did you know he used to be a hand model. And she's like, I'm sorry what I'm sure you love this story. But let's go back to your hand modeling days, because if we're going to get into it.
Sure why not. Yeah, I definitely hand modeled in New York City to pay my rent. That is a true story. You can google it. Those images are there forever the Internet is written in permanent inc. I think, though, today, that's a job that probably doesn't exist much anymore. Why would you pay me one thousand dollars for my hand when AI can just do it. That's where things get
a little bit tricky now. So you know I was probably a hand model at the top of the profession and then realize I couldn't do hands forever.
No, you did act, and then of course real estate and later I do want to revisit artificial intelligence and how you see it impact real estate. But let's stick with the pass for a second here and talk a little bit about your pivot from acting to real estate. Would you say that getting into reality TV was like the pivot?
Yeah, Well, I got into real estate at the end of two thousand and eight and basically put theater and acting to the side so I could just make money.
In two thousand and eight. By the way, that was quite the time to jump into real estate.
Yes, and it was hard, but I didn't know anything different, so I just assumed it was always this hard. But for me, I was coming from the bottom, so it's not like I had a stock portfolio, so it didn't really affect me the way like two weeks ago the market correcting did. That's the market I learned in was a really, really tough New York City market. Put acting
to the side. And then there was a casting call in twenty ten around this time, fifteen years ago for the New York franchise of the show Million Dollar Listing, which was set in la and I went to an open casting call with a couple thousand other real estate agents and there's a long process after that, but the rest is relatively history.
So you're a bravolebrity and you're building your real estate career. At what point did you realize I want to expand always in all ways, which is your mantra? What was that a byproduct of?
Well, the honest answer is I had to come up with that tagline because in season one of Million Dollar Listing, the producer said, you need a tagline. I said, I don't know what taglines did realtors have, Like everything I touched turns to sold. No, I can't use that. And I was just kind of thinking about the structure of my life and how it was always about growth, and I was leaning in on something that was like, if
you're not growing, you're dying. But I didn't want to have the word dying being my tagline, and so that it just came my mottos to grow. My modos expansion. You always have to be building, You have to be doing a little bit more than you were doing before, and how are you going to do that? To do it? Always in always, oh my gosh.
There you go. Winner is that you think specific to real estate? Are all industries? Can you apply that? Or how does it work in real estate? Not everyone goes in with that ambition. They want to expand, maybe always in a zip code or in a particular state. But this morning you said you're opening up, sir hand in Atlanta. You're expanding. Why is it so important in real estate to always be growing in all ways?
Well, in sales, it's a volume business. You want to be able to serve as many customers as you can. And I do it in part so that you can weather downturns. The market's been pretty rough in the United States the past three years. Inflation, interest rates spiked, low inventory at a national level has been tough. But we have great volume, and we're in a lot of different markets, and we're always expanding, and so even if one market is slow, another market might be strong. I do the
same thing in our businesses. If real estate brokerage is slow, real estate education will be strong. If real estate education will be having a hard time, real estate technology will be strong. If everything is having a hard time, content the TV shows, people will turn to media, right, That's what we saw happen in twenty twenty. Everything kind of went down, but then people turned into our content. Our content drove commerce. We built a massive audience for what
we sell. We have obviously a clear niche, and then education came back, and then brokerage came back. So that expansion is also to kind of generate the strongest wheel that I can to continue propelling the machine so that we can sell as much as we possibly can to the largest group of customers all around the world.
Diversification, well, why don't you just kind of go through the portfolio and the breakdown of Sir Hand, your real estate empire. You started this in the middle of a global pandemic, No big deal, since you also got started during the financial recession, so you're no stranger to adversity and challenges. You've come even quite a long way since over the last five years. You've mentioned a few of the things that you're doing education, obviously real estate sales.
But tell us sort of about the anatomy of sir Hand.
Yeah, so I got into the business in two thousand and eight. I built a sales team, so I knew how to sell real estate. I knew how to manage people. We knew how to provide great customer service the buyside, seal side, and development side. I had a large group of people underneath me, about sixty five people through twenty nineteen and into the early days of twenty twenty. I
then blew all that up started my own company. We set up a holding company called Surhand Technologies, and underneath it sits real estate brokerage, sales training which is sell it dot Com, our production studio which is called Studios. So we have our show on Netflix. We have obviously all of our social content. We do across platforms, and then we have an AI service i'll call it, which is called Simple. So we have those four verticals as of now that operate kind of in the entire family.
What made you want to also add like media company to this. That requires a lot of you, right, And I think one of the challenges of sometimes when your name is on the company, you don't want to to be all about sort of your brand, right, but really about the brand of the business.
Yeah, we thought about and we workshopped a lot of different company names so that I could have some autonomy, you know, especially if anything ever happened to me. I wanted to make sure that the company was protected. But at the end of the day, when you're starting your own thing, one getting copyrights to normal words is hard, and my name is unique. There's only so many surhants out there, and it's what people know the most, and
so it's the biggest driver of business for us. So any other name that I could have come up with for our company was going to actually be less beneficial to lead generation and to the growth of our businesses than if I just named it after myself and then we just put a period at the end of it. In our logo mark as kind of an end statement like that, is it when you want to choose who to work with, you choose period, And that's the level of service we try to bring to the table.
Tell me a little bit about real estate today versus say twenty ten. The ubiquity of the Internet and all that it brings. For one thing, I mean, how would you characterize the buyer, the seller and the salesperson today and where do you see it going? I mean, it's a really tight market, as you said, So how has that influenced the relationship between buyer, seller, salesperson.
Well, they're all far more connected now than ever before. It used to be that you would go to salespeople for information, but now you don't need to. You would go to the salesperson for access to the listings, access to buyers. You have no idea what's for sale in that building or on that neighborhood, you have to go to a real estate agent for it. When that changed,
we went from information enabled to tech enabled. So okay, now your agent is enabled with the right listing software, with the right applications to be able to get the news out there about your property and to be able to put off markets in front of the right buyers to now being AI empowered kind of as your companion and to our agents. Anyway, we talk about it almost like fighter pilots, right, Like you're in the front seat
and then you've got your copilot behind you. That's where AI comes in to enable you to fly faster, to win more deals, win more battles, etc. And I think that's how things have changed.
Would you call this a housing crisis or an affordability crisis? What do you see as the real achilles heel right now? And if you had to add more supply to the market, what would you do?
State and federally owned land tax incentives for private developers to build and to have affordability requirements. Same thing they do in New York City, except they got rid of tax debabits. For the most part, I think it's an affordability issue for sure. I think that's what happens when you pumpour trillion dollars into the system and then say figure it out. And that's the situation we're dealing with right now. We have clients who just cannot afford to
sell because their rates are so low. So when you have a really really low interest rate environment for fifteen years, and then you just take it away from everybody. They're going to hold on to that for the longest time they possibly can, and we're coming into a new normal now. It's slowly happening, slowly but surely. You also have a big wealth trains for more money is being transferred to women by twenty thirty than ever before. I think it's
in the trillions. We have more baby boomers buying real estate for millennials and gen zers than I've ever had in my career. So there's a wealth transfer into real estate that way. But I don't see a housing crisis. There's not enough houses. I think that there's an inventory crisis because people aren't selling and people aren't building because it's too expensive, especially now with everything that's going on today.
If tariff stick and whatnot, it's going to cost you twenty five percent more to build a home potentially in twelve months from now than it does today. And today it costs you nearly double than what it costs you four years ago.
So what does that tell you. Everyone's throwing out words like recession. I know you're not an economist, but what are your friends in the industry talking about in terms of worst case scenarios in twenty twenty five and beyond, what.
It seems like we'll almost have is a series of corrections instead of one large recession or depression even And I think you see that starting to happen now, and there will be quick fixes, and then we'll go into another one. It'll be quick fixes, and I think maybe the exhaustion from those series of corrections. We'll see what happens, So we'll see if it kind of puts the brakes on the economy. It's like driving on a road that has tons of potholes, Like eventually you're just like, dude,
I got to pull over. I need to figure out how I'm going to go down this road. People get nervous, right, they get afraid. It seems like there's a little bit of that going on, But I don't know. That's not my purview really, and I'm not as much of a global economic market prognosticator as I am someone who looks at real estate markets, which just need more inventory and need lower rates. Right, the housing market is defined by
three things. Supply, demand, interest rates, Like that's it. If we have enough people who can afford the supply, and there's enough supply to handle the demand, and rates are reasonable at a pace where people can afford it based on income growth. Because you live in your monthly payment, you don't live in the purchase price. Then you have a liquid market. You don't have houses selling in one hour, but you also don't have them selling in a year.
And I've been in both markets. Twenty twenty one was I don't even need to put it on the market. I'm going to call a few people in this house. It's going to sell. That's not healthy. I've also been in twenty eighteen where the average days on market and most urban markets was over three hundred. Wow, that's also not a liquid market. And now like one hundred and fifty six cities in the United States have a starter home price of over a million dollars. So again, all
of that brings me back towards affordability. And if there was one thing that I lean on in my business to the Trump campaign promise, whether it was a promise or not, who knows what happens now, was there was talk about creating incentive to turn federally owned and state
and local municipality owned land and defunct buildings. You're seeing that now with a little bit of the doze stuff, and give it over to private real estate development to create affordable housing, to create market rate housing, just to create more opportunities for people to own their property. And
we'll see if that happens. But if that happens, that's going to be across the swath of the Southwest, the little of the southeast and southwest, which is in part why I don't think I've said this to anybody yet, but you know I opened up and down the east coast for Sir HNT And on Wednesday this week I fly to open up Arizona.
Wow, why did you like Arizona so much? Tell me again.
It's the anchor of the Southwest. It's a big feeder market for money that's coming out of your Midwest and northwest quadrant. It's a good tax state, and it's a lot of people coming out of Los Angeles in southern California, and it's a good market. Scottsdale is just a good place. It's a good place to be a business owner. It's a good place to own and operate.
A lot of boomers, so you got that wealth transfer.
Yeah, a lot of boomers. My parents had a place there. They're the most boomers. But then someone knocked on their door during COVID and gave them a number to leave, and they took it. Oh, like crazy people.
They didn't call you first though, Did you do that deal or no?
I wasn't licensed in Arizona at the time. Man, I've dealt with my dad now on like two deals in Florida because they live in Florida now half of the year, in New Hampshire for the other half. And man, oh man, am I glad it's only two He hit me on commission.
Oh my goodness.
He was like, well, I don't know what your guys really did. I'm like, Dad, this is what we do. And he's like, wow, man, I mean you should start doing a better job because I'm not paying that. I'm like, yeah, what are you doing?
I mean maybe you're kind of alike in some ways more than you. When we come back, Ryan opens up about the culture he's building at Sir Hand, including how he hires, who gets weeded out, and the interview tactic he swears by. Will also dip into his refreshingly holistic five year plan.
Doing an assessment for every hire is really important because we want to see how people think critically. We also want to see how people handle negative feedback. So one of the most important things I've done is when they bring that homework, even if it's amazing and perfect, is to tell him it's awful and it's not the way we would have done it, and see how they respond stay with us.
I want to talk more now about your leadership style and the culture that you've built at Sir hand. I got to ask, is there anyone that you have seen as inspiration leadership inspiration? You know, I want to emulate some of the culture that they've built at their company. Any North Stars for you.
I wish it could be like my dad, that guy I ruled with an iron fist. I don't have the heart for that. I think maybe sometimes my life would be easier if I were that much tougher. I think there's a difference between being tough and being fair. I think I'm incredibly fair. So it doesn't mean we don't let people go. It doesn't mean we don't make tough decisions, but I try to be fair. I went to Hamilton College and I read that biography a long time ago.
The big biography and then they turned it into the musical and all that stuff. And I don't know if I've learned as much about leadership from reading about Alexander Hamilton as much as I did about innovation. Like something that we say a lot here now now, especially because the real estate business and the broker's business is incredibly litigious,
is we innovate, we don't litigate. I've only filed one lawsuit against somebody else and won it hand over fists because they were just terrible people and I had to set an example, which is annoying. Other than that, people have come after us and they've lost every single time. And there's been other opportunities for us to litigate, Like why spend time, money, and effort on litigating someone else
who's just going to enjoy it. Why don't we take the same time, money, effort and just go innovate faster. Let's win through success. They're just going to lose anyway.
Can you share what some of these lawsuits were about? Were these typical in the industry? Is it just cost a business sort of lawsuits?
There's a mixture like the breaking of contracts, the stealing of clients. We get sued. If you go into a new market and a new agent comes over to you, you get sued by that firm for tortious interference, almost as a defense mechanism to show their other agents, Oh, you can't go over there, because I'm going to sue you too, And so it becomes this game of lawfare, which is weird, but it's pretty specific too, I guess our industry, but that's why we try to do as
much as we can through innovation. That's why we have all the media that we have and the shows that we have and the technology that we have. And people can be angry. It's fine. If they weren't angry, maybe we'd be doing something wrong.
Yeah, that's interesting because I get what you're saying about the lawsuits becoming a game, and I want to talk about innovation in just a moment. But one question about culture, because I've had the opportunity to interact with many of your team members and that is not a coincidence that you assemble this team that I'm sure there along the way there have been some that didn't work out. But
how do you hire? What's the process? What do you look for in a teammate, especially someone who's in a leadership position at surhand.
So we hire agents and we hire employees for agents. There's kind of a pretty simple process. We bring on principal agents that fit the culture, fit the vibe to the right people. But the god who have been in the business typically for least five years. They have to carry a rolling annual sales volume and income. We've let some agents come in on the principal side, so meaning they do their own business who've been doing it for less than five years, but typically that's about our average.
And then brand new agents they go through our programs, they go through sell it, they go through the books, all the courses, and they can join as an apprentice. And then I look for three things when hiring agents. They have to have good energy, they have to have good enthusiasm, and they have to have empathy. And that's always been my thing and I've never really found a better trifecta of ease to look for. The staff side
is hard. I am not the best interviewer. I kind of like most people, and I just sort of assume that you're going to be awesome and not screwed up and work every single day the way I do, and just be really really great at what you do. And I've had a lot of people bullshit me, and I've made mistakes on a lot of key employees and staff. And you know, I'm a salesperson. I like it when people sell me. I'm like, oh, that was good, Yeah, you'd be great, And then they come over and two
months later I'm like, oh, you suck. You know, there's a lot of tal out there.
Well, in sales especially, yes, but.
On the staff side, we hire across technology, operations, finance, management, now legal HR. I mean one hundred and sixty employees here now full time across markets, and so we found that homework. So doing an assessment for every hire is really important and making sure you don't use AI to do it unless that's the job is to figure out the most efficient way to solve a problem. Because we want to see how people think critically, we also want
to see how people handle negative feedback. So one of the most important things I've done is when they bring that homework, even if it's amazing and perfect, is to tell them it's awful and it's not the way we would have done it and see how they respond, because if they cower and say no, problem. Then I know I'm hiring a yes man, and that person's going to bankrupt me if they get aggressive with emotion. Emotion equals ego, and I don't want that person in our room or
in my pool. If they are passionate about their response and if they defend it and they're respectful about how I think, right and they're like, huh, that's a unique choice there, Ryan, and they lead with respect and professionalism while also listening to alternative ideas. Passion equals outcomes, So ego is emotion, passions is outcomes, and those people end up being some of the best hires we've ever had.
So be emotionally regulated when you're in an interview with Ryan Sarahn. That's what I'm learning. That's a great strategy, actually, I.
Think it's important. Otherwise there's like six hundred questions and what's your weakness and what's this that? Because listen, in real life, I go into a lot of meetings with my staff, okay, and they've got lots of ideas and I don't like most of them until like two weeks later I decide I do because I learn new things, new information. I reserve the right to change my mind. Yeah, I am not a stubborn I try not to be anyway a stubborn leader where my way is the highway.
I think our growth is indicative of my listening to smarter people about their specific niches, and I try to find people who are unique qualified to do what they do. That's also been a learning lesson for me, thinking that I could mold somebody to be something they're not. Like, this isn't baseball. It's hard to do that. Yeah, Like, you've got to be uniquely qualified to carry this role and elevate us. Otherwise I'm just like a charity here trying to elevate you, and that is a waste of my time.
Well, let's talk innovation now. And I've been saving maybe the best for last year because I do think that with AI here and not leaving and only growing faster, that we all could benefit from learning how you're thinking about it and how you're applying it to your business. And simple SMPL is a technology your team has created to basically facilitate your agents. If I'm correct, to marry
kind of the human with the technology. Tell us about the thesis behind this and why you think it's really relevant.
What it does is it combined SaaS automations with human expertise to really build what we would call like the first ever large action model for real estate designed to help salespeople and sales teams. So at a high level, that's what it does. It uses LMS from gros on it, GPT four to H and whisper to use function calling to map requests to anticipate what the salesperson is going to ask for next, whether it's a CMA or a
listing presentation or showings whatnot. And then we have a very very large database which for us we call like our project vector that then pulls the information from that to then execute and do the work on the agent's bath. The agent never sees any of this. All of this is done on the back end, and it empowers support staff. So again I'm niche to real estate, but like, there's
a huge real estate company out there on the public market. Okay, they've got thirty thousand real estate agents, thousands of support staff members supporting the salespeople, supporting the business, helping the business move. So that company, I guess would operate at like for every four to five salespeople, you would need
one support staff with Simple, it's every hundred. So we try to really empower the support staff, who we call our Simple advisors, to run kind of a switchboard to automate all of the work that a salesperson needs to do. Now we have AI that does a lot of it automatically,
so you don't need these advisors. I put out like a commercial two months ago where it's pulling properties addresses, running the broker price opinion, sending out emails, all that stuff, and we just built it to do that because that's what would make my life better. And then there's also a lot of custom requests that take a little bit of time. The same way if you were going to go on Amazon and order a house or a car, like it wouldn't show up in a box on Prime
in an hour. That request might take a little bit of time, and so we do that too. But it's kind of going back to what I said before. From information empowered to tech empowered to AI empowered is really where the thesis is going to be drawn with salespeople over the next couple of years. We see it anyway, that's the bet we've made.
It's exclusive to stor hint or do you see this as something you can scale and potentially sell as a product to other agencies.
Yeah. Possibly. Right now, it's exclusive to Sirhin As we're building it. These are early days. We really started putting it out in September of last year. I think the app was accepted into the App Store on April seventeenth last week. I had a call with our Simple team about it this morning. So all good so far. But in markets that we're not in with agents and and
also other industries is where I get excited. Whether it's financial services or legal, the ability to replace administrative work I think is sorely needed.
How would you advise someone who wants to get into the real estate market today as an agent versus like five years ago? What are the steps? What are the new things they have to learn? The education that they need now that is more than ever.
Well, you need to learn how to build the tools. You need to learn how to use the tools and use the resources to be able to serve your client to the best their ability. When you're a brand new agent, I think the biggest mistake you can do is try to do it by yourself. You can't do that. You're not going to go to battle by yourself. You're not going to go and win a super Bowl by yourself. You need to be a part of a winning team.
I think winning teams create winning players, and that's what we're trying to do here at this company and from the entire company winning to all of our individual sales teams. Winning new agents need to get their license. They need to join a team and learn from a team and treat it like an MBA two to three years. We're
doing absolutely everything. You're working incredibly hard, and then you're taking that information and once you graduate out of that apprentice program or that MBA program or whatever you want to call it internally, you're then able to run incredibly fast. And I think you never can stop investing in yourself, learning and investing, learning and investing, because all you're doing is investing. It's not a cost right, it's an investment in the you of the future.
Do you think, looking back five years ago, you are where you had predicted? Are you working faster than you thought?
Probably not. I think I could always work a lot faster. You think, yeah, five years ago today? I think it was April twenty first, twenty twenty, my wife, my daughter, my mother in law, we drove back from New Hampshire where we were sheltering in place where we were quarantined and we just couldn't take it anymore. And we came back with masks and gloves, and it was like, I'm going to go start this business. I'm going to start
it in an empty New York city. There's no better time to start something brand new than when the whole world is shut down. So let's go do that now. So I don't know. I think five years ago, I imagine maybe we'd be in more markets if we'd be bigger by now. But knowing what it takes now, I'm a lot farther than I thought I would be, knowing how much work went into the last couple of years.
And so now where do you see yourself in five years and the brand and the company, knowing now what it takes, what it has taken, the advance of technology, where AI is taking you tell me the picture that you're seeing in five years.
I want there to be sur hand listings in every market around the world in five years. That's a lot of work. I want the sirhamp brand to be synonymous with luxury and affordable luxury. I think we'll have more verticals outside of just real estate. I think Simple will be in more industries and it'll be a leading tool for sales, administrative work replacement. That's a lot. That's a good bag.
And personally, your dad, your a husband. How do you prioritize where you're putting your energy? You get up very early, I know, that's for sure.
Yeah, it is definitely hard. My wife actually came and like shadowed me for the first time in fourteen years one day last week, and when we got home, she was just like, I get it.
And why did that happen? Was it like just spontaneous or was there a reason for that.
No, she's spending more more time with the company and people, and she's involved in cultural events and things, and it just sort of happened that way. I don't know. I would like to have more kids. I would like to if someone can help me with them, that would be awesome. I'd like to be healthy, that's for sure. You know. I just spent a day with a little girl from Make a Wish. Her wish was to come work with us, and we did that, and so that was definitely something
to go through. We had a great time, but I mean, at the same time, it's never lost on you what brought this moment to the table, and how fragile life is, and how we take everything that we currently have for granted until we don't. And so I'd like to be healthy and happy, that's for sure, with great motivation.
Well that's a beautiful place to end. Ryan Sirhan, thank you so much. I knew this was going to be a winning interview. We're so happy to have you on the podcast. I look forward to seeing you again running in person. Who knows next time I'm on the Today Show or maybe Good Morning America next I don't know.
All right, sounds good, stay in touch.
Thank you. We're now talking to another Ryan, my producer. Ryan. What'd you think of Ryan Sirhan?
I mean, it's incredible to see his trajectory from just starting in reality TV, it's now building this reality He's really just an impressive person and an impressive leader, and I'm so glad we got him on the show.
I mean, thinking about all the Bravo celebrities, if you will, a few come to mind that have really been able to separate themselves from that reality show world. Bethany Frankel comes to mind and Ryan Sarhant for sure, because what he's done that's remarkable is he leveraged that platform to I think lead him to a place where he could build Sir Hant and kind of hit the ground running a little bit. But what he's done with it and where he's taking it is just really a testament to
his smarts, to his forward thinkingness. And he's just at the end of the day, like a really good salesman and a businessman, which we don't always associate with a reality TV show star.
Right. I think you hit the nail right on the head. I think it's his forward looking nature and that's something that we see in common with folks like Bethany Frankel,
like Ryan Sirhant, where they see the big picture. And I think that really came through in his conversation today, talking just holistically about how he approaches the industry, how he approaches partners, how he approaches people that work for him, and just always having that eye to the horizon of how can I use what's happening now five years from now.
And I think that's why he's so cutting edge. And I loved him getting into Simple and their AI tool specifically about how they were looking forward to how can we solve the problem of admin work to free up our salespeople to do the responsibilities of the job that actually make them money.
Yeah, it's excited to see what he's building. I also really appreciated where he talked about you, I like everybody, so I should not be the person that's hiring, at least when it comes to the corporate level. And so while that could be cast as a strength, it is admirable that you like everybody, but it's probably not good business to be always in every room with that kind of purview.
And now as we close this season, what's interesting what I saw as a through line is just that empathy. I take a statement like I like everyone, and I think back to Claude Silver, and I think back to other leaders who are able to look at the people that work for them and the teams that they're leading as the people that they are, to see them as more than just cogs in a machine. And that just bleeds through in everything he talks about in terms of
his planning and his strategy. And while that might not be the best business approach to be everyone's friend, I think the core value of that is just finding that empathy to put yourself in the shoes of the people that work for you, and I think that's been a big part of his success for sure.
Oh well, it's been really fun hosting all these interviews and having an opportunity to talk to you later about it. I already heard your big takeaway from the season is empathy. I think for me it's definitely empathy and also perhaps always looking forward, you know, thinking two, three, five years ahead. I've heard this from other leaders too. I heard it mostly echoed from the conversations this season about the importance of look, nothing's predictable, but the signs can be there.
I think it was Navine Jane who talked about that where I asked him, you know, how is it possible to know? He goes, we have data. It's just a matter of getting the right experts in the room to assess the data. As a leader, you aren't actually the one making the forecasts in a vacuum, right, you have to bring in all the experts. You're not the expert, but have a vision is the starting place, and then from there, you know, assembling the right people around you to help you usher the mission.
Absolutely I can't wait to hear next season as well. I feel like we're going to get even more advice and cool features and anecdotes from the leaders that are coming along.
Yeah, especially with where the economy is going, it'll be an interesting uh, We're going to learn a lot interesting insights. Yeah. Well, thanks everyone for tuning into season one. We're really proud of everything that we've accomplished, the voices that we have shared. Thank you for listening and subscribing, and stay tuned. We're going to take a little bit of a hiatus. We're going to quickly be back at work, fielding conversations, getting
our great guests, and opening up again season two. In the meantime, you can find me at Varnish Charabi on Instagram and I'm always on the So Money podcast. I'll see you next time. This podcast is a production of iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio. Our executive producer is Matt Stillo and our supervising producer is Nikiah Swinton. This podcast was edited by Sierra Spreen