It was such a hard moment to have a disappointing work day where you just kind of want to cry and tell your friend or whomever, and then also have to go out and then be in front of the team and be like everything's fine, lunch is here, and not let them know. And I think those moments are the ones that make you strong. They're the ones where
you learn to have a game phase. They're the ones where you learn what's a big problem versus a solvable problem, and also learn what kind of partners you want around the table with you.
The greatest gift that we had in this was the mistakes, the failures, the learnings, and above all, the experience of getting to build something that has meant something not only to us and our team, but millions and millions of women. And all of the things we did wrong was part of the process.
That's Carli Zeken and Danielle Weisberg, co founders of The Skim, reflecting on one of the hardest, most defining moments.
Of their journey.
You probably know The Skim as a go to source for smart, digestible news, but behind the brand is a story of two friends who met in an NBC newsroom, took out credit cards to fund their vision, and built a media company that now reaches millions of women. On this episode of Leading by Example, we go deep on how they got there, the near breakdowns, the breakthroughs, and the unapologetically honest leadership style they've honed along the way.
We also talk about their recent acquisition by Ziff Davis, the weight of caregiving, and why building something that lasts means doing the hard stuff and doing it with heart. I'm furnished Taravi and this is leading by Example executives making an impact. Carl ze Aken Danielle Weisberg, co founders of this skim, Welcome to Leading by Example. It's such a pleasure to be with you again.
It's so good to see you. It's been a while. Thank you for having us partners. We're so excited to be here. Thank you for having us, and always good to see you.
I'm so honored to be one of the I'm going to say one of the maybe the first journalists to get a deep conversation with you post the news of your partnership with Ziff Davis. I know that we can't talk about the details of this partnership, but everybody's really excited. And I guess you know, having known both of you for well since the beginning of the SKIM, I have to ask you now twelve years later, was this the
north star? Was this always on your vision board? Let's just say to sort of bring the Skim to this point where you're partnering and potentially scaling even.
More, so I'll take this one. It's Danielle. I think there are so many things in that. First of all, we're so excited to be part of the Ziff Davis Fai family, really excited for the Skin to be able to partner and grow with an amazing partner behind us.
I think, being.
An entrepreneur and a founder, there are two things that when we think about the decision to have some sort of exit outcome. The first is, ever, since we started, we did not let ourselves quit, and there were definite
periods we came pretty close. So I think when you talk about was this the path from the beginning, the path from the beginning was to start a brand and a company that would be huge and would go on the Other thing I would say is that Carly and I were really thoughtful about setting the company up for optionality at different points, and the best way to do that in all of these different crazy markets that we've navigated was staying true to our audience, keeping the connection
with that, being very mindful about good business practices, about thinking through what is your run we look like, what is your stance on profitability? All of these things that sound very obvious now, but when we started the company in this adventure Craze and Heyday, that was not necessarily
the key metrics that were being discussed. And finally having a big vision with that optionality, so we had certainly thought about places that would be great strategic partners, and for us, the key to all of it was having a great business that was backed by and engaged audience.
I want to get into more of your audience, primarily gen Z and millennial women, and I definitely want to revisit moments when you thought about quitting, because that's all of us and what made you endure. But Carly, do you want to add anything to Danielle's overview there? I think another question I had as she was speaking was just any lessons learned along the way of this particular leg of the journey the acquisition, things you wish you had known or advice for other founders.
Yeah, you know, I think Danielle kind of captured it. But being acquired by the Everyday Health Group, which is under the ZIF Davis umbrella, is it a real honor. I think we share a commitment to factual information, to
kind of a mode of trust with audiences. And I think from really day one, Danielle and I have been fortunate to have had lots of options over the years, and I think when we have always written out what's most important to us, it has always been does our brand continue to grow, does our commitment to our audience continue to grow? And what especially in this moment and being now part of Everyday Health Group, their commitment to
really the things that are on our audience's mind. It is something that just we couldn't ask for about our partner, and so we're really really excited about it. Our team is really excited about it and allows us to do more for our audience, which has always been our north star.
It's particularly special when you think about how you both started as colleagues at NBC, you know, the breaking news, all of that sort of and then realizing there's this underserved market of women particularly at the time millennials and now gen Z and the two of you said, hey, let's start a company. Let's start a content platform, and you chose to start with email newsletter, which still today is where a lot of media companies choose to start. Can you tell us a little bit about the strategy
behind that? And that was in twenty twelve and it has endured. You know that particular lane is valuable and from that is like a sort of a flywheel we can get into sort of all the other offerings that this scheme has. But that would you say was a good disc decision that going back, you wouldn't have maybe done a podcast to start or a website to start.
I think it was the best decision we ever made, And I would love to say we looked at all of those things and we decided email was the best. Honestly, we picked email because it was the easiest tool that we could stand up without designers, without techlift, and we could communicate directly to an audience. But as we started to grow, we started to think about email much more strategically.
And I think that's what brands and people creators have come to realize, because in twenty twelve, It was not popular. It took a long long time. I would say, honestly, probably in the past eighteen months did email become cool.
What we saw was a direct way to communicate with your audience and know who they are, and that email is still something that you use in your day to day I use lte lots of other messaging things, but email is still a method of communication that you use, especially when you enter the workforce, which was when we marked our audience entering into the skim funnel, because it is something that you look for people information that you
actually trust and want to open. So we felt then like we feel now that if you are creating something based off of engagement, based off of really wanting to create a community, and one at scale in a very cost effective way, email I still think is king.
And specifically the way that you wrote the emails I remember and maybe that changed over the years, but I'm curious for you to share this, you know, like no exclamation points.
I really really appreciate that you remember that. I know, right, our team, who I hope listens to this is going to laugh real hard because that was the hill I was going to die on. I was like, we will not do an exclamation point. I felt very passionate about that. But no, I think what you're referencing is really a conversational tone.
The voice.
Yeah, a voice, and how we talk to our friends and how we emailed our friends. And I think over the years, we've gotten asked in so many different environments, in different situations of like how do you capture talking to this audience? And we're like, we are authentic to this audience, Like we're not trying to put on a voice to be like, hey, we're millennials too. It's just honestly like the voice of how we speak to one another.
And I think in the earliest days that it meant grammar, like we technically sometimes would write things that weren't grammatically correct, but we're conversationally correct. And I remember people used to like write in and be like, do you want me to be your grammarian, and house we were like, no, we actually really know how to have good grammar, but we were really trying to capture what an email from
a friend sounded like. And you know, over time, the voice grew up, our audience grew up, but especially in those early days, it really was meant to sound like, you just got an email from like your college roommate, And we had so many people actually write in and be like, does my college roommate secretly work for you? The sounds just like her.
And you're covering topics like geopolitics and race relations as well as pop culture. So to do that consistently across all these different storylines and story themes is no small feet. You really knew your audience, and I don't think it's just that, oh well, we were one with the audience, so we tested ourselves.
You did a lot of research.
What did you learn about your audience at the time, and how has it evolved?
How do you keep up with your audience?
Well, it helps to be part of your audience, which you know is the honest truth. We started it for our friends and our family, and so it's always been an organic experience. Now, of course we had to scale
that and that's a different part of the conversation. But for us, it was really about thinking through the idea that in an age of personalization, in an age of so much information overload, but lack of trust, and also lack of a focus on or maybe not a focus, but a true understanding of what are the real everyday pressures on women's mind. We always use that as our
north star. So we wanted to make sure that anyone in our audience could feel equipped to participate or start a conversation and learn from viewpoints, but to never have like a deer in the headlights moment. And that is how we started and it grew from there as our lives got more complicated with growing up, parents, partners, kids, the decisions around having or being part of all of
those things. What goes along with that financially, emotionally, and at the root of all of it too is we went through a pandemic health, like actual health became so much a part of the foundation. If you don't have that, you're not going to have anything. And to have that, what do you need to think about financially And that took on a lot of different delivery methods, cross platforms, but the idea that as you grow up, you are having to think about these things, whether you like it
or not. Just like you need to know about what's going on in the world, you need to know about what's going on in your world. Honestly, I hate thinking about the intricacies of my finance, but I need to do it, And a lot of people felt that way about knowing what's going on in the news that day. So we wanted to take the stigma away that these are things that are really hard to get into. Make it casual, make it part if someone's routine, Make it
community based. And that's really how we thought about scaling into the different franchises that we have today.
Yeah, what I'm hearing is you didn't underestimate your female audience, and you met her where she was at. And the community piece is also really really important, whether it's trying to learn about something that is not in your wheelhouse but is important, or getting to the gym. Hard things you know, the more the merrier, and you definitely provided that community. When we come back, Carley and Danielle open up about leading through COVID and how showing emotion at
work became a turning point. They also share the story behind their viral hashtag show us Your Leave campaign, what it revealed about working motherhood in America, and why they believe vulnerability can be a strategic advantage.
I remember at first being like, oh my god, I can't believe I just started to basically cry in front of our team, and then I think that that vulnerability came a strength in leadership that I don't think either of us ever would have embraced before.
Stay with us. Let's talk about growing pains though twelve years.
You don't go twelve thirteen years without some, as you said, moments where you wanted to quit. So what's one that really stands out and that had really good resolve in the end.
I think when I look back, how I would have described us individually when we started the SKIM, I would have said we're really focused people and we're really resilient, and I would have been completely wrong because we weren't those things twelve and a half years ago. I think
we learned those things, those muscles over this journey. I remember our first lead investors was Homebrew Ventures and they were product people by nature, and they taught us focus and we're like no, we're very focused, Like no, this is what it was and to be like product focused and that completely changed how we thought about what to say yes too. I just say no to how to scale and grow. And I think on the resilient part, we would have considered ourselves like very strong individuals who
like had had some life experience. But when I look back, boy, we had no idea what was in store for us personally or professionally. And I think that muscle, it is a muscle, and we literally built it over time. And so when you look back, we've been through let's just call it three recessions, whether they've been formally acknowledged as recessions or not. A pandemic personal highs and lows. And
there's two moments I'll just like never forget. And they seemed like blips, but at the moment, like they felt so big. It was one of our earliest rounds of funding. We're like, we got this, and it was an investor that we thought had committed verbally, but I don't think we like really understood what that meant. And we were still learning how to fundraise. And we had the small office and our team sitting outside and we had this like little kitchen and that's the only place that we
could take a private call. And so we went into this little kitchen and it happened to be lunchtime. We cleared everybody out and we had this call at the investor and the investor was like, we're not going to participate in this round. And I remember it was like a movie, like I like physically like slid down the refrigerator door to the floor, and we had our team outside who were all trying to come in to get their lunch from the fridge. We were like, not now,
not now. And I just remember Danielle and I sitting on the floor with our laptops in this kitchen staring at each other and being like, what are we going to do? And we closed the round again. This was such a blip in the story of the skim and it wasn't even for a lot of money when you look at what we raised, but that felt like a punch in the gut where I was like, how do
we keep doing this? And it was such a hard moment to like have a disappointing work day where you just kind of want to cry, I tell your friend or whomever, and then also have to go out of the kitchen and then be in front of the team and be like everything's fine, lunch is here, and not let them know. And I think those moments are the ones that make you strong. They're the ones where you learn to have a game face. They're the ones where you learn what's a big problem versus a solvable problem
which we solved and it was fine. And also learn what kind of partners you want around the table with you.
Thank you for taking us back to that moment.
I think rejection is part of so many people's realities, whether you're a founder or whatever role you have in your career. Did that rejection fuel your drive to go and close that round? Did you actually exceed what you thought you would get because now you had this new found gumption.
Yes, And actually it fueled us in a surprising way because we went to a mutual friend of this investor and we were like, can you believe they did this to us? And that mutual friend called the investor and was like, what's up? And they had their own reasons why they didn't want to invest, but they said that we had cried and we did not cry. I forgot about that. I didn't know where you were going with this. We did not cry. I cried about it when I got off the phone, but not to the person on
the phone. And same thing with Danielle, and that pissed us off so much that we were like a few like we didn't cry, Like there's no crying, and basic, yeah, there is but to be clear, like we were businesswomen, we held our own and like you know, it would have been fine if we did, but we didn't, and that really pissed us off. And that was like the fuel that we were like, we will show you and you were going to regret this, and they did.
It speaks to such a huge problem right of women, especially women who are in rolls of high ambition founding companies, that you get sort of characterized, you get misunderstood, you get discriminated against. How often was that part of your journey all the time?
Time? Still? Yeah, still even now when you have climbed the hill.
Yeah, all the time, even where we are today, all the time.
And I think part of it is I can spot it, whereas maybe five years ago, ten years ago, I'd be like, oh, that's just because I'm young, or that's because I haven't gotten to this part of my business yet.
But I think now, you know, we're still young, but like.
We've been doing this a long time, those things are not the reason why. And I also think because we are very lucky to have grown up in this kind of entrepreneur founder community with also other women who have gone through it, and so there are themes, but I also think what I dislike about it is it's real. It is part of this, and it's also something that I would say, you got to pick your battles and figure out how much you're going to let it get to you.
And I do think just to add like one of the positives of leadership in COVID as, I think it forced I don't mean to really use masks in a flippant way in this case, but it forced a leadership mass to come down for everybody, and I think that
was actually a very positive thing. Where the first time actually that I think either of us ever got emotional in front of our team was during COVID Yeah, and I remember at first being like, oh my god, I can't believe I just started just basically cried in front of our team. And then I think that that vulnerability became a strength in leadership that I don't think either
of us ever would have embraced before. And we saw that in our male peers and mentors and our female peers and mentors, and so I want to clarify that having vulnerability or emotion is not the thing that annoys us. I think that can be a strength, and I think that can be very honest, and we've had those moments. I think it is the BS around two younger female.
Founders a judgment.
Yeah, And I think we would have had very different experiences had we been solo founders, And we also have very unique experiences because there were two of us.
You brought up COVID, and I think what really rose to the surface will it was unmasked during COVID, was how much caregiving was a huge part of everyone's lives, whether it's because you have children, you have parents who are taking care of you have your own mental health that you're caring And this actually became a huge platform for the two of you as leaders, and I would love for you to share your insights as well as how you've taken action since COVID to provide more of
an inclusive environment and a supportive environment for your caregivers at work and not just at the SKIM but at many companies.
So we started something very organically called show Us Your Leave. This was under the Biden administration. Congress did not pass family leave in the way that everyone had hoped for caregivers basically, and Danielle and I were like literally texting about it and we're texting about it when Danielle's child care ended for the day and one of her kids was having a tantrum on the floor and we were trying to work, and it was like, this is literally the problem, and we posted about it and we just
made up like a hashtag. We said show us your leave, what did your leave look like? And I can't even explain to you how many messages we got and how quickly people started posting with their own versions of their stories with that hashtat I mean crazy stories like a nick you nurse who had to go back to work ten days after giving birth and her own child was in the nicku and like she had to go then take care of other children, like I mean, made no sense.
We had one woman who literally sent us photos of her hooked up to the contraction monitor with the laptop on the table next to her because she had to clock in till midnight to be able to qualify for leave. You were like, I can't even believe this is our country and this is not a part is an issue.
This is a failure systemically across our country. And it turned into an advocacy movement where we had over seven hundred companies for the first time publicly and transparently share what their leave policies were, and we created a template for our audience to share that data, and in many
cases those policies were changed. That then evolved into show us her childcare, which was, Okay, you've had a family leave, how do you go back to work if that's what you're choosing to do, or how do you kind of function? What does childcare look like for you? We all know that the cost of that is not sustainable, and in particular, women are not getting help. And we did that at the same time very similarly to a survey that we ran called the State of Women, and that was really
an economic report of how is she doing? This is like post pandemic, how are we? And you know, like we are this audience. We weren't expecting the results to be like, I'm doing great, but it was so much worse than we thought it was going to be. Eighty three percent of our audience said they identify as a chief warry officer. And that is such a mental health problem.
And again part of what we're so excited about with our new partners every day health is like so much of the work that they do is actually addressing a lot of her mental health concerns with amazing partnerships that's
going to allow us to serve her better. But I think these sort of advocacy moments have been a very organic evolution to our brand that have awoken our audience in a way with like not just giving them that they know what they're frustrated by, but actually giving them the tools to talk about it or in some cases actually create change. And we've since then a lot of further brand campaigns that have looked at their health in
similar ways and really just about mobilizing this audience. And I think that a lot of that came to fruition because of the pandemic.
So tell me about how you've chosen your brand expansions. You started out covering the news primarily, but then got into other areas.
So taking myself back in time to COVID, it's actually still now a hard thing to do, but we started to really lean in again to building franchises and extending the brand based off of what we as people were worried about and were interested in, and that meant one as our commerce business exploded. That was when we started it and it was like, we're all doing it, we may as well make it like a effective fun and
I guess we talk about being time well spent. And we started our skim shopping franchise during that because we were all spending money online, so let's make sure it's
going to small businesses. Carly and I kicked off something around women of colors, businesses and small businesses on our Instagram and that was something that went into our skin shopping franchise and just really started thinking about this is actually how we're spending a lot of time since we're trapped at home, so how can we make it time
and money well spent? And then that started going into the evolution of our skin Money franchise, which to that point we had been building out a very i would say complicated app and product experience and we had rate us money for it and we were about to launch it, and the pandemic hits and we see that we have so many questions around filing for unemployment. What should I
do in a recession? And again, as a generation, we had actually gone through this when we were graduating college starting to try to move up in the workforce or get a job. And I think Because of that, we were primed to be like, this is not going to be fun. We need to figure out what we're going to do because there's a high likelihood that we're going
to get laid off. And that started us on a very big business decision with our board's approval, and they really had our back here, which was to sunset the product that we've been working on to really think about we need to create community and we need to really get ahead of the questions that are going to come up. And so we started launching skim Money as a virtual events series and then it built out from there, and the idea around skim well really started around caring for ourselves.
And there was so much misinformation out there and so much just fear, as we all had rightfully, so we didn't know what was going to happen. So it was less about trying to keep up with what was going on in medical news and much more about how do you actually take care of yourself because you can't control what's going on out there, so how do you create
some sort of wellness practice? And that really became those eighteen months when we really started to define and move forward these three big parts of our business that have grown significantly since then.
What will you be advocating for women in your audience going forward? Do you think like what has yet to be really addressed or is a new topic that you think is surfacing.
Well, we've talked about caregiving, but it's really been in the context of caring for kids mostly, And when we decided to talk about caregiving, we really thought a lot about aging parents. And what I think is different than even when we started to think about the topic and the subject is all of this this is happening at the same time, and there are so many resources for how you should plan try to regulate yourself. For like
the idea of parenting. It is a really flooded space, and yet there are still really big needs in that and there is a need for community, There are a need for tools, there is a need for more financial support.
But then when you think about caregiving on the other end, for parents or for whatever kind of older dependence you're thinking about, there's still a stigma attached to it because to me, it's kind of like you think about retirement communities but not necessarily all of the other things, and like I'm knocking on wood, but like right now, that is not on my mind, But there are so many other parts of this that should be on my mind,
including how do you think about the trade offs? There's been a meme floating around and maybe it's just like this is the type of content that I get, But it was like something about your kids being mad when you have to move in with them because you saved for their college and not your retirement. Yeah, that's a lot of people that is exactly what we're being faced with now. But what that should say is your kids being mad because you have to move in with them
because you paid for your boomer parents' situation. We love our boomers, we love our parents, but that generation did not make such great financial decisions, and we are now at a place where we need to think about how do we take care of them, how do we take care of ourselves, and how do we take care of kids? And I have no clue as an individual how to
do that. So how can people who are not having the luxury of being able to sit here and peace through these problems and create content and talk to experts about that? How are they thinking through it? And it's the easiest thing to bury your head in the sand about because no one wants to take that on.
Well, because what are we really talking about. We're talking about the end of life too, you know, and that is such a hard thing to face. We're talking about money, which we've already discussed is super taboo. And then you're talking about millennial women, women largely at the forefront of caregiving. So we've already got a lot on our plate. We've been through three recessions. Oh, we're the ones who are supposed to shoulder all this financial and emotional stress. Yeah,
it's it's a lot, and I agree with you. I think this is a huge opportunity to uplift, educate, empower women and families around this. Thank you for bringing that to our attention. All right, let's talk about the future a little bit. Your hope streams what's on your vision board right now, Danielle Carly, mostly for your audience.
I think for our audience. I keep replaying that stat in my head of like the chief Warrior Officer that I referenced. I think we are spending a lot of time actually talking about with Danielle was just saying, which is we're the Sandwich generation, and the idea of like how do we help her prep How does the SKIM help her prepare for the stuff that you don't want to deal with in some cases don't even know that
you're going to have to deal with. And that is everything from like do you have the password to get into your parents iPhone or any phone? Do you have the power of attorney docs filled? Have you had a tough conversation with them about choices that they want or options that they have, or their financial situation? And these aren't like pretty topics, And I think what the SKIM is always done, you know, And I look back to
how we started. We started it was like the height of the Syrian Civil War, and I remember people were like, people are not going to want to read this, it's very depressing. We're like, it is very depressing and they need to And the SKIM, you know, it did take off. And it's because we made that information palpable, we made it easier to understand. And I think our goal would be to help this audience navigate this next phase of
her life and her loved ones lives. And we are just really obsessed about where she is at this life stage moment, and it is how does she have the life that she wants and deal with the responsibilities that are really sitting on her shoulders and nobody is there to help her.
She can do hard things, as they say, yeah, yes she can.
If you were starting the skim today, would you do anything differently?
Oh that's a good Oh my gosh, yes, everything really well.
I mean in the fact that we had thirteen years to practice, so you know where it ends up, like, I think I would do everything differently, meaning that if I had known where.
We were going, I would have been a lot less stressed out.
But I think in some ways, no, I wouldn't do anything differently because the greatest gift that we had in this was the mistakes, the failures, the learnings, and above all, the experience of getting to build something that has meant something not only to us and our team, but millions and millions of women. And all of the things we did wrong was part of the process.
Yeah, the worry part that seems to be a theme here, you know, facing it, trying to avoid it. And lastly, we ask this of all of our guests, what does leading by example mean to you?
Don't ask your team to do something that you wouldn't do or that you haven't done yourself. It's I think a very founder position. Like we've literally built desks, taken off the trash, we have made social assets, we have done mass email blasts flying, yeah, all of it. We've gone up to random people on the street and said, do you know what the skim is?
Can I tell you about it? Which sounds so creepy.
Now, So when you think about these things that you would ask someone to do, I think you're more able to paint a picture of why, not that you should always have to paint that picture, but you actually a real why behind why you're asking someone to do something.
Yeah, I think my answer comes off of that, which is there's this weird thing that I think has to happen in leadership where for a company to get something off the ground, you kind of have to flex above your weight class. You have to believe and see the bigger version of what you're creating and like own it and be and feel bigger than maybe you are at
that moment. And at the same time, you need to show the humility with your team, and you need to know how to do almost every job that you're going to end up hiring somebody for or at least why you're hiring them because you can't, like, I'm not going to be the one to build you an Excel model. I know why we hired our finance team, but I think those skills are so important, and I think we
obviously certainly did that in the beginning. And I do think when I look back COVID and kind of the humbling of COVID for everybody brought that back to life. And again when I look at sort of like what are the positives to take away from like a really hard time in leadership? That is one.
Dream big, but keep it real.
Yes, that is much more sistinctuis.
This has been so good. Thank you so much for sitting with us, Danielle and Carly. Congratulations on this.
Thank you.
And this is in some ways the beginning of a new future. You know, it's not the end, it's the beginning.
We are very excited and we feel very grateful to have the phenomenal partners at everyday health group that we do.
All right, Ryan, that was Carly and Danielle. What'd you think I've known them for years. It's always a pleasure to sit down with those two women. They are always so honest, so transparent, I relate a lot to their story, not in the sense that I built this incredible media empire, but that I started in news.
I had friends that I sat next to you in the newsroom.
We didn't have the conversations my friends and I in the newsroom, like let's start a media empire one day, but they did. And you know one thing they didn't talk about, which I know about them, is how they were roommates and they took out credit card debt to start the skim And so to fast forward to today to see how far they've come, the wins, the losses, the setbacks, was a really nice moment for all of us.
Yeah, they were incredible just to hear from founders who are so incredibly grounded. I was really impressed with given their you know, stratospheric trajectory of starting from such humble beginnings to the company they now are in the company
they now keep. It was just really refreshing to hear how they still talk about things like I loved their wrap up when it came to not being afraid to do the little things the day to day of running a company, whether it's taking out the trash or building desks, that really was nice to hear from someone in their position.
Yes, and growing up with their audience. They are very dedicated to their audience. They have been very intentional from day one to service her and to learn as much about her, get ahead of her questions, to provide the products and the content that they know she needs, even if she doesn't want to learn it. I love what they were like, it's important the Civil War and Syria.
It's important. It's depressing, but you need to learn it. So we're going to give it to you.
We're going to feed your vegetables, but it's going to taste like fruit loops.
And I love how clear that voice is because I think that's a big testament to their success. And something I really took away from this conversation was the fact that they had such a clear picture of their voice and how they wanted to speak to their audience from the get go and communicating with that authenticity and making a real connection with their audience is something that they've maintained from twelve thirteen years ago to today, and I
think it's a big sign of their success. And like I said, something that I really took away from the conversation today is just that authenticity of voice.
Yeah, both as leaders and as content creators, for sure, And.
I especially appreciated even things like the flexibility with grammar and the idea that they could speak directly to their audience in a way that their audiences used to being spoken to in their own homes and their own workplaces.
Which was a delineation at the time.
You know, people weren't writing emails in the way that they were in such a conversational tone and wait a minute, no exclamation points. You know, they were very specific about their tone and their style, and they stuck with it.
And I also was a little surprised a little I don't know why I was when they were describing the aggressions, let's just say, and the characterizations, the false characterizations as women founders, that they're still dealing with this bs sometimes and they've gotten maybe quote unquote better at navigating it and so far as choosing their battles, but I was disheartened to hear that that is still part of what they have to deal with, hopefully not day to day,
but it still shows up even for a woman who climbs the top of the hill as a founder. I mean, really like an exit is what only so many can hope for, and yet here they still are.
And that's why I'm so glad we can have conversations like this on this show, is that it's good for our audience and their audience to hear that even at the pinnacle, at the peak, they're still dealing with the same things that people are dealing within their daily lives. And that speaks also to just their transparency and authenticity. And it's such a shame that we still have to
have these conversations. That's so frustrating, but I think it's really important that we do have these conversations so that we can highlight that that's still happening and how they've dealt with it.
And how they've maintained their standards and they've continued to be successful in spite of all of that. So yeah, thank you for their transparency around it. That was really an important thing.
Such a great conversation.
Well, listeners, I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as we did. If you like what you're hearing, please follow and subscribes you don't miss out on any new episodes, And as always, we want to hear your thoughts to make this the best show possible.
Ease leave us a review.
In the meantime, you can find me at Farnoosh Charabi on Instagram and I'm always on the So Money podcast.
I'll see you next time.
This podcast is a production of iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio. Our executive producer is Matt Stillo and our supervising producer is Nikiah Swinton.
This podcast was edited by Sierra Spreen.