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Hey guys, welcome back to Leadership Detectives. Good to have you back with us here again. Hey, who doesn't have a view on Donald Trump or Boris Johnson? Which one of them might be the better leader? In this episode, we've decided to have a look at five key areas of leadership from the 15 or so that we've looked at over the last 20 weeks. And then award each one of them a score rating on how we think they're doing. But that's only the view of Neil and myself. Do you agree with the assessments?
Would you rate them differently? Have a listen in, see what you think. Hope you enjoy.
Okay, welcome everyone to episode 20 of the Leadership Detectives. Can you believe it, Albert?
Can you believe it? When you when you masterminded this thing all that time ago, shall we go on and put some thoughts together? 20 episodes.
20 episodes, I know. We've had some fantastic guests on, we've talked about some great topics. It's been a really, really, really, really enjoyed it.
I've personally really enjoyed it. I'll tell you what's frightening is 20 episodes, and each one's had a different aspect of leadership. And we've touched the surface, right? Because there's so much here to be a leader, how to act, things you can do. Wow, it's a difficult job, guys. Being a leader is a tough job.
It certainly is a tough job. And we thought we'd do something really special today. We thought we'd take five of the key elements we've learned about leadership over the last 20 weeks, and we would apply it to two of the world's greatest leaders, Donald Trump and Boris Johnson, and just do a scorecard and see how those guys are doing as the world's greatest leaders against five of the five of the key elements of leadership that we've come up with.
That's um that's your opinion, right? That they're the five, they're two of the greatest leaders.
Just your opinion. True. Well, they've told us that. They've told us they're the greatest leaders, so I'm sure it must be true, and I think they believe it as well. Um, so I but I do I think we should put a bit of a caveat at the front of this, okay? Which is anything said in this video is just our opinion. We're not trying to influence anyone, we're not trying to uh sway towards one party or another, especially as we're in election season in the US, and we know this video is watched a lot.
We don't want to influence voters in the US one way or the other. Could make a difference, it could make a difference, exactly. But uh, you know, the the leaders are in the the public eye every single day. So it's it I thought what we thought when we talked about this, it would be a good topic just to test it and see. You know, we talk about leadership all the time in business, but what about in the public eye? Yeah, so let's start with the first one.
Let's do a we'll do a scorecard on this as we go through. So the first one we thought we'd look at is clarity of mission, strategy, or vision. So, and and you know, that's that's come up time and time again in the various uh conversations we had is that what people are looking from from their leaders is clear direction. Where are we going? What's your strategy? What's your vision? Where are we going? Yeah, so what are your thoughts on let's start with uh let's start with Boris first, shall we?
What are your thoughts on Boris and clear strategic direction?
Well, there's a lot we can bring in, right? Because we we've got to look at what are all the things that he's juggling with at the moment, right? What all the balls he's got in the air. And the balls he's got in the air are Brexit and coronavirus and just running the country. That might be yeah, incidental that he's doing that in the background. Um, but it's like you're saying, Neil, come back to that. That whole thing is about where are you trying to get to?
If you can't get your destination right to start with, everything else is going to be a hell of a challenge on the way.
Yeah.
Um, I think he's offered some clarity. I think he's been fairly clear about well, look, he's very clear about Brexit, right? Yeah, never mind.
I don't think you could have a conversation with anyone in the country and say, can you tell me what uh Boris Johnson's position is on Brexit? And they wouldn't know.
Yeah. So he's right.
I mean, clarity of strategy and vision around what that means to the future of the country. I I agree. I think he's probably pretty clear on that. Maybe not on how we get there, but certainly he's clear on what the vision and strategy should be. Yeah.
Yeah. Now, and my opinion is I think he's been less clear on let's talk about coronavirus. I think he's been less clear on that.
Yeah, so I I think that comes in stages actually. So I think at the beginning of the uh crisis, and and you you know, bear in mind when we were speaking to Zoe, you know, our female firefighter, yeah, you know, she said that what you need from leaders in a crisis is decisions made, and you know, be clear, this is what we're doing, right or wrong, this is what we're doing. And I thought they did pretty well at that in March.
I thought they did pretty well at you know, this is the information we've got, this is the direction we uh we've the strategy we are adopting as a country.
Yep.
Uh since then the wheels have come off a little bit. Um, so yeah, so what where were you gonna go with it?
Well, I'm just kind of thinking about, um, and maybe this is an overall for later on as well, Neil, is what's his style in doing this stuff, right? And my experience of Boris early on is he's not, I didn't think he was a teller, he wasn't uh this is what we're gonna do. I don't care what anybody else says, this is where we're going.
Yeah, he takes feedback and opinions from experts, and I think that creates a challenge for you because now you've got lots of incoming information that you need to work with before you make your decision.
Well, and I think that when we get on to decision making, which I think is the third topic we're going to talk about, I think he might score quite poorly on that.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, I think so. I think what we're saying with with Boris on clarity of mission, when it comes to Brexit, no question, it's clear, knows what he wants, knows uh where it's going. I I actually also think that when he came into on the last election at the end of last year, I think he had a very clear strategy of what he wanted to do with the country and how he wanted to bring the country together and move forward too.
And that strategy seemed to, you know, I think people understood the strategy, not necessarily the execution, which is a different thing. When it comes to COVID, early on, reasonable communication and strategy, less so. Well, in fact, I'm not even sure what the strategy is now when it comes to quarantine and self-isolation. And I think if you asked most people in the street, they wouldn't know either.
So we've got circuit breakers now. We've got circuit breakers, yeah.
Whatever that is, you know. Um, so I think there's probably a mixed score there. Uh I'd say I would probably give him a five or six out of ten on the uh the clarity and strategy. I'd go with you on that. Okay, right. Let me make so what about Donald Trump then? How would you rate Donald Trump on clarity of mission, vision, strategy, set in a clear direction?
So have we ever been clear about what he wants? America first. So true.
100% clarity over what it is he stands for.
So I think as a headline statement and as a uh message he's trying to get to his people, America first. I don't think he's ever been unclear. I think he's been really, really clear. That's where we're going. Now, what does that mean? And what are all the bits underneath it? I don't think I do get it, right? But I do or what's the damage that's done by following that? Yeah. So is it America? Maybe it should have said America first at any cost, right? Or America first unless I decide something.
It wouldn't fit on a baseball cap, mate.
Fair point. So I I I you know, I yeah, I think the clarity of what you stand for is uh you know, there's no question Donald Trump, and and you could argue, you know, what what's Donald Trump's complete focus and strategy been for 2020? It's been about getting re-elected, yeah. It's not been about anything else. So you know, and uh yeah, so from a strategy point of view, that's probably he's very clear on that. Um, when it comes to other topics, not sure that he's so clear on them.
No, exactly. So, so in terms I this can be difficult to score this one. I mean, I guess look on the overall America first, yes, he'll score high, but if we start getting into individual things, I think it'll be less so. So I'm not sure I'd put him a lot different than Boris, to be honest.
I I think okay, so it's an interesting one, actually, because there is an interesting discussion there in terms of his. Let's think about a leader. As a leader, clear direction and strategy, whether you agree with it or not, he probably does have it. You know, there's no confusion, he's he's very good at being clear on what um, and I don't think anybody's unclear of what his priorities are either. No, which is Boris first, America's not Boris, uh Trump first, America second.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, so whether you again whether you agree with it or not is a different question. I think I'd probably put him as a seven against Boris's six, actually.
I agree with you. I think if you put them side by side, would you say that he's above Boris or not? He'd have to be above Boris in being decisive and specific about where he wants to go.
I I think so, yeah. Um, so okay, so let's move to the second one then, which is communication. So, and and communication, we've broken this down into a number of areas. So being really clear on what you want from the people you're leading. So, what do you want the country to do? What do you how do you want them to react to what you're telling them?
Um, informing people, so keeping people informed and and uh know what's happening, and then engaging in feedback and listening to what people are telling you. So let's take uh Boris again. What do you think?
Um, yeah, look, I think he's been, I think he's communicated well, I think he's been open with it. I don't I've I've not really ever got the feeling that he was hiding anything. So I think he's been open with his communications. He might not have been well informed when he's made some of his communications, so I think he's a bit more shoot from the hip. Um, you know, he can be a bit dithery in the stuff that he comes out with, but I think he's been, I think he's shared information.
What's going on in here when he's sharing it is a different topic.
I mean, uh anyone who comes up with the term whack-a-mole as the strategy for COVID, you know, you've got to go, well, there's an interesting communication strategy going on in your head.
Um, but uh, you know, it I think most people, and so in terms of measuring him against lead good leaders that communicate well, um, certainly early on in the crisis this year, very, very clear on um what was happening, why it was happening, and what was needed, and what what I need of you as a country is to do this.
Yep.
So, you know, that was good communication, and you could argue very similar with uh Brexit and uh with running the country.
100%. I'd put him very high on Brexit communication, right? He's never held back from keeping everybody up to date, yeah, telling them what's happening, telling them what he's planning, maybe too much so, right? Because he's got all his cards on the table, right?
And that that and that's been interesting as well, and and because one of the dangers in today's society, and and the what is the way the media engage is if you say something, they then you know, and you communicate and you lay everything out, then they pull it apart, they forensically identify everything you've said, yeah.
Um, so but I think and and I think what you know if you look at feedback and listening, again, he seems to be pretty good at taking on board feedback from people because he has changed course a couple of times, yeah, which is not a bad thing in any leadership, so long as you and communicating why you do that. Um, so so yeah, I think probably reasonably high. Yeah, the only thing I say is he can disappear sometimes when you really think it would be good to hear from you now, yeah.
And you see that in leaders in business as well, you know, when that you really think now would be a good time to hear from you as a leader, yeah, and and you don't hear a thing. And I think he's probably not as acutely uh in touch with when to do that as he could be.
That's what I was gonna say. I don't think he's got that kind of understanding that that when he goes off the map, the whole country and world knows he's gone off the map. Yeah, yeah, appreciates that because of where he's come from and where he is now.
So so what would how would you score Boris on communication?
Well, communication again. I don't want to feel like we're just going down the middle of the road, but I would go down the middle of the road. I'd go kind of five, six.
Would you? See, I've I've written down an eight here. Have you? I'll written down an eight because I think he's good at communication, but okay, I'll I'll I'll I would I could be talked down to a seven given that he does disappear every now and then.
To to keep the audience happy, let's go seven so we don't keep him here all day. Okay.
So what about what about Trump then in in communication? Clarity of what he needs from the country, clarity of objectives, uh keeping people informed, taking feedback on board, however, he feels when he gets on Twitter. Yeah, okay. So his communication is kind of one way through Twitter.
So I think his communication is is the problem I find with his communication. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, is it's it's very instant without being as considered as it needs to be. Now that confuses your audience because you tell them, I how would I describe it? It's almost he's communicating his thought process immediately. He thinks it, yeah, before he gets to the end of the sentence. So he'll tell you all the words, but he hasn't really.
So I think his communication is constant and it's regular, but I don't think it's structured enough.
Um and and clarity of objectives. So what do you want your people to do as a result of your communication?
Yeah, yeah. And look, it's not one that we've got written down here because we can't get into everything, right? But when it comes into trust and integrity, or I think we have got it in walk the talk, right? Yeah, one of the problems I find with communication from from Trump is it could be different tomorrow, and it could even deny something he said the day before when the whole world heard him say it. So maybe that's a different topic.
Yeah, consistency is really important. I think so. You could argue that he is clear at telling his supporters what he wants them to do, yeah, you know, and even some radical groups telling them what he wants them to do. So there is clear objectives. I guess is there is the intent behind it, is not what we're talking about here, we're talking about the communication.
One of the things I think he's incredibly poor at, and bear in mind, you know, we don't know the guy, and we're just getting this feedback from television and newspapers and stuff, is receiving feedback. I would guess if you sat down with him and said, Can I give you some feedback on that speech today? Or can I give some feedback on that? He probably doesn't sit back and go, Yeah, I'd really like to hear what you've got to say on that, because I could do with improving in these areas.
Yeah, my guess is you wouldn't have finished the sentence. No, yeah, let me give you some feedback on your P45 as you exit the building. I'm I'm not interested in hearing what you've got to say, right? Because it's not important to me. Uh, which makes me reconsider that the seven on on Boris, right? Because I think I certainly wouldn't put Trump. This is a difficult one. Does he communicate? Yes, he communicates a lot. Does he communicate clearly?
And does he communicate the things that people want to know about? And well, I'm struggling with that as a topic.
Yeah, and I so I would say so good communicator, but maybe not good at bringing everyone along with you, listening, feedback.
Um, yeah, those kind of things. Standing up, standing up in front of an audience or camera and being, you know, very vocal. Yes, he's great at that. So confidence and being able to voice it, great.
The thought pattern doesn't sound too and bringing along your own fan club as well.
Yeah, exactly.
That's that's kind of an easy audience to play to.
Exactly.
Um, so and when it comes to coronavirus, for everything I've seen says there's been absolutely no clarity of communication, no consistency.
Yeah, what number would you want to put on on Trump? I mean, I'm I'm struggling to get above five. So so if we put in five, I'll be happy to move Boris to eight now, based on what we've just talked about when you compare the two. Let's do that. You know, when you compare the two, you see the the contrast, right? Yeah, okay. So then we go on to topic three, right? Decision making.
And and in this, we're saying, you know, making the right decisions, um, you how you make a decision, what you do about making what's the process you go through, um, how you deal with the fact you've made a decision and you might need to change it, right? How do you handle that? How do you feel Boris has conducted himself in that?
I think and making the right decision as well is um sorry, you know, you said making the right decision. Actually, it does who whether it's right or wrong is an opinion. Making the tough decisions is actually the the thing I think. And when it comes to Boris, so my my my view is he's a poor decision maker. And what I mean by that is um he's good at taking input, good at taking feedback, uh, but then when it comes to actually making the tough decisions, there seems to be quite a lot of dithering.
Yeah, you know, when you need a leader to make decisions and say, This is what I've decided for these reasons, and now we're gonna move on. So I think in that area he's he's quite weak. In one of the areas where I I think he is good because vulnerability we talked about in one of the the zoom cards is is uh saying, hang on a second, this decision doesn't work. I made a mistake here. Uh, we need to change the route.
Yeah, the the challenge is you just got to be careful how many times you do that, yeah, and you know how often you do that. So, yeah, uh, so I I I I I think this is one of his weaker areas, decision making would be my view. What do you think?
Yeah, yeah, no idea. I and the reason I think that is because I think he's more democratic than Trump is, right? He wants to listen to what everybody in the room has to say, he wants to take opinions on board, he wants to listen to experts before he makes his decision. The danger is if you have too many people giving you opinions, how are you gonna make a decision out of that? You've got too much on the table, right?
Well, also, I think when it comes to tough decisions, you know, there was a tough decision that you know, he's made some tough decisions around Brexit. Um, although I'm not sure they're that tough when you you take a tough stance on a negotiation like that, when you know all the countries of Europe want something out of it, it's not that hard to take a tough decision. You know, you and I have done a lot of negotiating, and when both sides want to do a deal, that's not that hard.
But I think with people, you know, when it comes to personnel and some of the decisions there, like the the Dominic Cummings situation, I think that was poor decision making. I think that uh showed a weakness in him again, not wanting to be political because but it's just the from what I could see as a leader, that wasn't a great moment.
Yeah, we're we're gonna one of our other topics, guys. We're gonna cover is difficult conversation. So this kind of steps into it. Yeah, but you're right. That as a decision, take that one, and there's been more since. That was that was a bad decision by my calculation.
Yeah, I'd agree.
Could have made a better decision, and it was so visible to everybody. So again, you need to that's making those decisions needs to think about how either how palatable it is to everybody or how you're gonna deliver it if you know it's not gonna be palatable.
So so let's let's look at Trump. So actually, how would we score Johnson on decision making? Then how would you score?
I'm gonna have him kind of down at three or four. Yeah, three. I've got three weak one.
Three out of ten. So, where would you put Trump on decision making?
He makes decisions very quickly, um, and he goes with it. Yeah, but but he'll change his decision tomorrow if he wants to, and he'll make another decision very quickly and stick to it, right?
Well, actually, what he does is he forgets he made the decision yesterday, so that he can then make a decision. Well, you know, I didn't do that.
That was one of my staff, or that was something let me sack someone for making that decision, yeah.
I think so, in terms of making decisions and moving forward, you know, that's a very American thing, and certainly you know, in when it comes to things like the the right of American, that making decisions, sticking by my decisions, the ego is important. You definitely see that, and so he's he's definitely high on the decision making, whether they're the right decisions or not, that's not our judgment. Um, but you're right, it's then consistency in that.
So you make a decision and then change it the next day. That's that's actually worse than not making a decision at all.
See, where where I see that coming from is being a CEO. You come from a I'm running this company, it's my company, I'm making that decision. And if tomorrow I want to make a different decision, I will again, because it's my company and I make that decision without consideration for the collateral damage that occurs in the process or the fact that you're losing people's loyalty and following in in the meantime, because you're confusing them, right? Where are we going?
Are we going left or or are we going right? Well, we're going left today, but I can't tell you tomorrow.
I mean, you and I have worked for people like that, and it is an absolute nightmare working for people who make one decision one day, another decision the next day, because everybody goes running off in this direction and they have to stop, come back, and go off in this direction. Yeah, so yeah, I agree. That's that's that's not good leadership, and so making decisions is good, strong, uh, but changing decisions regularly not great.
I mean, there have been some big decisions he's made that he's stuck with. Um I don't know. So I'd probably I'd put him higher than Johnson, I think, on this one.
Yeah, I'd put him higher. I wonder if if the changing track on decisions we bring into you the next topic, right? In terms of walking the talk. I don't know if it kind of links into that that says I'm gonna do what I say I'm gonna do, or I'm gonna do something different.
Okay, uh well, we'll can we can we come and walk to walk the talk last? We'll talk about difficult conversations next. How would you so decision making? What would you give him?
Oh gosh, I think the give I think he's very strong in it, so I'm gonna go kind of eight. I think yeah, yeah, I think he's very strong on my the problem with this one. Is making decisions he's very strong. Is it the right decision? Sticking with them, sticking with it.
So I I would put it slightly lower because if you flip-flop decisions, then that's worse than making a problem making a decision with this one, actually. Yeah, okay. Are you happy if I put a seven down? I I'll go with that on you. Okay, so we'll put a seven down. So then let's talk about difficult conversation, having difficult conversations. So, how would you what would you think about Boris Johnson on that?
So you mentioned Dominic Cummings. Do you think that was a conversation, a difficult conversation he should have had? Because my visibility and my experience of it was that he just steered away from having the conversation, right? Now, maybe he didn't, maybe they had the conversation, agreed it, and decided we're gonna stick what we're gonna stick with. I don't think he's terribly good at having difficult conversations.
I I would guess that too. Yeah, yeah.
I don't I don't think it's one of his strong points, and I think it is linked to decision making as well. So personally, I wouldn't put him very high.
No, I and so the Dominic Cummings one is an obvious one, but there are other other situations with some of his other ministers you've seen, or with um I think that when it comes to decisions around Brexit, he's pretty clear, but that's quite a straightforward path to follow. That one, yeah.
Um, I mean, surely there's a difficult conversation to be having with at least someone on track and trace, right?
There must be, yeah, yeah, there must be, uh and also on uh you know the school's exams fiasco in the summer, you know, that wasn't something that just suddenly appeared out of nowhere, right? You know, so I agree with you. So um, okay, yeah, I would score him pretty low on that, probably a four, yeah, yeah, at best.
Yeah, at best, yeah, okay.
And then so what about uh Trump in having difficult conversations? How would you rate him?
I'd rate him high because I don't think he's afraid of having difficult conversations. I think he loves it because it's conflict, and I'm the boss, right? So I think he's very happy having difficult conversations because he sees it as him stamping his authority. I'm not letting you get away with anything. I think I'd put him high.
I kind of agree with you. I hate to say it, I was just trying to add some of these scores up in my head, and it's quite interesting the way I think this is going to come out, yeah. But in terms of provoking difficult conversations, he's great at that. Yeah, uh, in terms of having the difficult conversations, it looks like he is good at that.
It might be that a lot, some of that is posturing, so it's it could be avoiding the difficult conversations by the fact he sacks someone, uh, so that you then don't have to have the difficult song conversation. Um is a difficult one, actually. So, does he avoid the difficult conversations around certain topics, but have them in the space he's comfortable in?
That's a really interesting point you make, right? Because there was a program on him this week, actually, it's the first part of a three-part program, right? Okay, and one of the things they put up on the board was the people that he has sacked. Yeah, well, they needed the board to go round the corner because it ran out of space, right? He has sacked so many people, so that's a really good question. Has he sacked someone to avoid having the difficult conversation?
Which is a much easier thing to do, right?
Well, and you can almost guarantee that he didn't sack them. His chief of staff did, yeah. So he said, Go and do this. So, does he avoid the difficult conversation by getting his team to do it?
Oh, um, that's a really interesting thought I hadn't thought of actually. That's a really interesting thought.
It's a bit like the chief exec, isn't it, saying to your staffer, can you just go and sack the finance director for me, please?
But has he so has he sacked people because they absolutely don't align with what he wants and that he's got someone else he wants in that role, or is it because something has come up, and rather than deal with it, get rid of them and get someone else in?
Don't know, don't know. But so I'm gonna err on the side of I think he probably is happy to be seen to be had difficult conversations, but behind the scenes, not necessarily so. Yeah, so I would put him probably at a six, so he's slightly higher than Boris, I would think, but yeah, I'd agree.
I wouldn't go any higher than that. I had a five in my head, so I'm happy to go with six. I wouldn't have gone any higher than that. Okay, only because of what you just opened up in my head that I hadn't thought of.
So so the fifth one we had down was walk the talk, lead by example, uh, you know, be the be the uh the the champion of your policies. Of your how would you rate um Boris on that one?
Yeah, look, I think I think he's happy to stand his ground on what he said he wants to do. I think he's happy to go up front and be the guy that said, Look, I said it and it didn't work. Yeah um I don't see him that's about integrity, right? Correct. And I think he's got integrity. Does he make mistakes? Is he a bit blothering sometimes? Yes, but I think he's got integrity and I think he's an honest kind of guy, my personal view.
So I think the the evidence, so my my opinion is similar, but I think the evidence is there that um he does walk the talk, he does he he personally does what he says he's gonna do, uh, and he goes and he's very happy standing in front of people and and taking the shots if he needs to. Um, and so uh I would say, yeah, I might be the same. I think his integrity is Pretty good and walking the talk is pretty good. Some of the people around him are shocking.
Yeah.
And that comes back to difficult conversations, I think, and the standards you set.
Yeah.
Because I think some of the people around some of our some of the leaders globally have done dreadful jobs of leading by example.
Yeah.
And I think at a personal level, Boris has done a pretty good job. So I would probably put him as a seven or an eight on that one.
I'd put him up at an eight. I think he creates a good example, right? He's setting an example of how people should be in a government to be open, honest, and with integrity and trust.
Yeah. Okay. So what about uh how would you rate Donald then?
I think he's a showman. Personally, I think he's a showman, and he has no problem with not doing what he's telling you to do.
Yeah.
I don't think he has any problem with, you know, it's not it's not about doing what I do, it's do what I say. Um he has no problem with denying that he has said certain things. So I think when it comes to integrity and trust, if that comes into this category of walk the talk, I'm gonna put him pretty low.
Yeah.
Is he a guy that I'd ever want to work for? Never, never, because I don't know if I've got a job from one day to the next.
No, and I think so. When it comes to walk the talk, you know, you just have to look at wearing masks, you just have to look at uh social distancing. You you can't be in a country that is having all those issues, and people are being told social distance to wear masks, to not mix in big groups, and then hold garden parties or hold um big conventions for your own political gain. That is not walking the talk.
Yeah, and when it comes to you know expecting people to pay their taxes, expecting people to do the right thing, and then you not doing it, that is not walking the talk either.
Yeah, no, absolutely agree. Absolutely, he blatant he's blatantly not in line with his behaviour, is not in line with his words. No, by the way, he doesn't care.
No, no, he he in fact he actually uses it as a badge of honor. Yeah, so integrity and walking the talk, he you know, I just I struggled to go above zero, but he's probably a one or a two in that space.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I'd be fair and give him a two. All right, I think that's as much as I'm gonna give.
Two out of ten. So um just quick calculation for me. That says Trump puts Boris on 29 and Trump on 27. And if Trump had a little bit more integrity and walked the talk a little more, he'd have he'd have won that uh competition. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I think that feels kind of about right. They've got strength in different areas, excuse me. They've got strengths in different areas. It's interesting that Trump comes out even as high as that, given some of the media coverage.
Yeah, but when we're talking about leadership, some of those leadership traits are why he's where he is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, this is an interesting one, right? Because we've gone through five categories, we've given a number that you and I feel are right. It wouldn't take a lot to type into the comments underneath what do you think the scores could be for either of those candidates. It would be great to get a bit of a poll here, wouldn't it?
Yeah, I'd love to hear from people to say, what do you think? Uh Trump or Johnson as in terms of leadership uh versus uh leaders as leaders.
So let's us um we'll we'll put something in the text with those categories, headlines, and people can cut and paste them if they want and put a number next to it. It'd be great to see what people think.
Yeah, I might see if I can come up with a uh a poll of some kind that we could do online and send it out when we send it. That would be great. That would be great. But look, we don't want to upset anyone with this uh this Zoom cast. We didn't know a podcast, we didn't want to uh be controversial. What we wanted to do was just look at the leadership areas and discuss each of those because it helps reinforce them. Yeah, you know, that's really so. Any closing words from you?
I think that they're five of the areas we've talked about over the last 20 weeks, right? There's lots more to being a leader. As we said at the start, it's a tough place to be. But uh, thank you guys for all your support that we're getting. Thanks for listening in. Hope it was entertaining and useful.
And uh no, likewise, it's been it's good, good fun conversation. Actually, I wasn't sure where that was going to go, but it's been good fun conversation. So, yeah, please to everyone out there, please subscribe. Uh, please uh give us a thumbs up. I see the likes are going up and the views are going up, which is fabulous. So, thank you for that. We're glad and that you are getting something out of it. But look forward to seeing you next week.
Cheers, thank you. Goodbye.
Bye.
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