Leadership from Within

So joining us here is Payal Nanjiani , recognized as one of the top executive coaches in the world , certainly focused around Canada , us , and Payal will tell us more about that . A leadership expert and the author of several books around the topics of coaching and leadership , payal , welcome to the interview . How are you ?

on leadership ? Where did that come from ?

And , uh , you know , people have been always moving ahead , moving , trying to get promotions , trying to get ahead , but at a certain level , despite every training , they were getting stuck . And there's a quote on my website that says leadership starts and ends with you .

Because that's where I believe it all started for me , that everyone has to focus on themselves first as leaders , before they become entrepreneurs , before they actually get into titles and positions .

But one thing that I saw around me was when people used to tell me that , you know , in a country like America , everybody is successful . And I used to look around and I used to feel not really . You know , I see people around me struggling . I see people around me struggling .

I see people around me with the best of the resources but still not getting to where they want to get . And America spends billions of dollars on training every year and yet the ROI to the companies was so less . And I'm there thinking you know why ? What's missing ? Why is it going like this ?

And I remember one time going to my vice president and telling him why are we even doing these trainings ? We need to do something better , because mid managers and up are pretty well trained . They need something better . And my vice president turned back and looked at me and says what's better ? as such , and I said we need to do some transformation .

He said that's not our job , that's the job of the transformation industry . I said there is no such industry . We have to bring the transformation inside the organization . And he said okay , if you have something in mind , why don't you conduct like a 45 minutes to an hour session with the mid managers on whatever you have in mind ?

So I did that and saw that there was a lot of reflection that the leaders did . There was a lot of self-awareness that got created .

People started liking it and these slowly became a part of our training programs in the company , where I started doing once every quarter , then once every month and we started doing that Soon there were friends who started calling you know that why don't you come to our company and do this ?

And and honestly , I used to do it for free , with no charge , because that's , I mean , it's conflict of interest . I could just do that much . And people started seeing the results . They liked it . They said it's very different from what a training would be in leadership and they started liking it .

And that's when I thought , you know , I could take that leap , that why don't I get into this completely and spread this awareness in the corporate and the business world . So that's what took the transition .

Every corporate has the same issue , I found what leadership training did you ever get then ?

We start feeling that no , I don't want to go and get this result , even though we have the best conflict management training . So the route is to be tackled , and that's then . That's the gap I started to fill .

But if you would just see that there was , you know , you could literally sense that people who are leaders , who are up there , they didn't really want a title or a position . They could lead from anywhere .

I have seen janitors show leadership skills and I have seen CEOs absolutely with no leadership skills . So I think , all in all that entire difference , what I saw that people are thinking that leadership is a title , is a position when I get there , I will do great things versus let me do great things and I will automatically get there . It's a big difference .

I think very few are the ones who automatically have those leadership skills and that too , with time and generation , they have to keep sharpening it . I might be born as a great leader and I'm in this age of ai .

If I don't sharpen my skills , if I don't evolve as a leader , if I don't learn the new leadership qualities which are needed in the AI generation and the metaverse in which we are going , I'm going to be outdated . I might be a great leader , born as a great leader .

So I think leadership , regardless of whether you are born with it or not , you , each of us has to learn it . Each of us has to evolve with times and make sure that we keep changing ourselves , not like , okay , you know what , I'm used to this type of a leadership and I can handle anyone .

No , you can't handle gen z in the same way like you are handling , you know , the baby boomers or anybody , you have to keep evolving and with the all , the all the leaders you've worked with over the time you've been coaching and teaching and spending time with leaders .

They are constantly learning . They are never satisfied with themselves . They feel there is , there is more to do . There is more to give , not more to achieve , just more to give , more to give it , give out there , more to mentor . What can people learn ? So that's number one . And if I would say one more , I would say they know how to leave .

I would say they know how to not leave an empty chair . They will fill up that chair . They are not the ones who will go out there and say , oh , I'm just feeling so proud of myself and honored that the company isn't growing without me . They are missing me , people are missing me . No , they will make sure they have filled that chair with the right person .

They don't want to be missed . They don't want to feel honored that the company is not going great without them . That makes failure . They want to make sure they hear stuff like wow , the person that you have filled up the chair with is doing great , what a great job they have done .

They like to hear those things they don't want to feed their ego yeah , I was just thinking of the word ego there .

More than that , I have seen how they keep their emotional balance in check . You know , I can give you an example .

Very thing that I remember is how two of these directors , the vice presidents of the company , two of the senior vice presidents they were walking and they heard a couple of gossips going around in the company about the union that the company was going to get into , and what they did was one of them , one of the senior vice presidents , just immediately barged in ,

started talking to these people and saying you know how dare you do this ? And but the other one had kept an emotional check . He went into his cabin , thought through things , worked out the plan , spoke with the key people and then made the transition . So there is one who just got fired up and said oh , you know what ?

How dare you say all of this against us and everything . And there's another one who kept the emotions in check , so it always has you . The great leaders are the ones who are always in check of what they are doing , and that's why I started off with saying you have to work on yourself a whole lot .

But if your boss doesn't , because of any reason there I mean your entire day and your entire agenda is gone right . So you have to work on yourself . You have to develop your inner leader . That's what I call it . It's your inner leader skills that you have to develop . How confidence are you building ?

Do you know how to navigate corporate politics without being shy of it , right ? Do you know how to attract sponsors in the company ? You cannot go and find sponsors and tell them why don't you talk about me ? You have to learn how to become that person who can attract these things in your career life , right ? So , neil , I'll give you an example .

There are two ways I always say that you can attract growth and success in the business and companies . One is by putting your hands out all the time . Give me more respect , give me that job , give me that promotion all the time you're asking . And the second is you become that person who attracts all these things . You work on yourself .

You develop yourself better each and every day . That's what it takes to actually become successful as a leader . The leadership is not something outside . The results are outside , but leadership is an inside game . You have to learn how to master the game inside first to get the outside results .

Did you want to highlight any of those that you see very commonly in people wanting to be good leaders that need to address those things ? Are there specific areas you'd want to call out ?

You know people are going to talk about us , us . I don't think I'm ready to even go and speak up there now . These are , these are ceos of huge , huge , massive companies . Right , they shy away . We have seen so many people shy away from wanting to speak about their own work .

Now , these are directors , mid-managers , who are putting in all the efforts , but when it comes , you know , to talk about your work , they don't want to . They , they just are not able to . Why ? Because they feel our work will speak for ourself . You know people will recognize us . I don't want to be the one who feels like a show-off .

So all of that is a narrative you're running in your mind and then you see somebody else who has , who has moved ahead in the career and you're like how did he or she get there ? They don't even have half the skills of what I have . And how did they get there ? Well , success and growth is 20% skills and 80% the person behind the skills , which is you .

You're not using that 80% , you're using only 20% .

So 100% , neil , what you said is true . Imposter syndrome everybody faces it . It's a natural phenomenon , I mean , it's given to us by nature , right ? So that it's a fear , because our brains are designed not for success , our brains are designed not for failure , our brains are designed for survival .

So obviously , fear , imposter syndrome , lack of confidence are natural parts of our brains , right ? But our brain also has another area , which is called amygdala , where most of the emotions stir up , from confidence to self doubt , to imposter syndrome , to happiness , everything .

Now , as an individual , you have to know how to cut these negative narratives in 17 seconds . And science has proven it that if you're not able to cut them in 17 seconds , it goes into a snowball effect . Now , how do you cut this in 17 seconds ? It's not going to happen automatically . You know when you wake up . So you can do two things .

One is , as soon as you get these narratives which are detrimental to your success , I would say change your state of being . If you're sitting , just stand up , go for a walk , have a glass of water , look outside the window , do anything to break that pattern .

And once you break that pattern , then you switch from the negative narrative to a positive narrative the what if ? What if this fails , well , what if this goes well ? Okay so yeah , it's a language like it's . It's like google . Your mind is like a google . Whatever you give , it is the answer , you know yeah why does this always happen to me ?

Well , because you're an idiot . That's the response you're going to get , right , rather than what do I learn from this ? Where do I take this ?

Actually , you know , you got the tony robbins expression of ask a better question , get a better answer and the triad , sorry , go on it's a fact that the questions you ask is a response you get yeah , and you know that triad that tony robbins talks about with you change your physiology , you change your state , which is what you just described .

You know that science , the , the language you use , conditions , your mind , what you focus on , conditions , so yeah , no , okay , so that that would be , that's your . When you're coaching leaders , that's your advice to them on how to challenge that imposter syndrome .

Do you see what I'm going for ? So you , so we break the state , but how is it they start thinking differently ? What triggers that ? What they need to do ?

So the work starts not on the day of when you are feeling like this . The work starts every day before that . Your mornings are very , very critical and

, as leaders , the amount of executives I work with I always tell them but they say I don't have the time . And I'm like you have to give this time because in the midst of the crisis , your brain is not going to just switch all of a sudden , because your brain is used to that pattern and that pattern continues .

So you have to make sure , every single morning , how much time are you dedicating to yourself for self-awareness , meditation , reflections , writing down a few things for yourself , reflecting on the day behind and how did you respond ? And what could be a better respond ? Having one win for the day ? I always tell them write your one win .

If you're a person who has , who gets angry soon , your one win is how do I know to stay calm today , in every situation .

You have to start training your brain to every single day , in the smallest situation , smallest , tiniest situation , to keep that calmness , to keep that self-awareness , so that when the big situation happens , your brain is already trained and tuned to it .

So the work starts every day , much before by the time it's the big situation , it's too late I can tell you 100 .

This resonates with neil right I think it resonates with all of us because , because we believe that when the time comes , when the big situation comes , I will do it , but your brain is used to a certain pattern yeah , yeah , no , I and you know morning routines .

What are some of the other key tips , payal , that you would say you know ? For the people listening to this who are new leaders or they're aspiring leaders , what are some of the key things they should be focusing on to help them become better leaders ?

So your energy , because productivity is about energy , not time . So if your energy is going in just fighting everyday things at work , you know , getting back to somebody talking behind someone , starting your day off with the phone , and starting your day off looking at what's happening in the world , all of that is draining your energy .

So we all have a certain amount of energy in the day and if you're draining that out from the beginning , so get up in the morning taking the phone , looking at what's happening in the other parts of the world . What's your , what emails have come from work ? That's it . You have already given the power to somebody else to begin your day , right ?

So , start have start saving your energy . Use your energy very wisely , very wisely , because that's something we all have got every day . You know , in the morning , when you wake up , god gives you a life and you have that energy in you . So learn how to manage that energy rather than draining it off so . So that's number one . Number two is have a routine .

Many people hate routines . They find it boring , they feel that you know the same thing , clockwise again . But guess what ? Some of the most successful people I work with . I have learned from them the routine and I have imbibed it in my own life and I have seen a huge difference since years .

As boring as it sounds , it's one of the best ways , easiest ways to get to success . See , the ones at the top are not only focused on their skills . What we read on Google about them is oh , you know , this is what they have done . But behind the scenes they have done everything different , everything different less of skills and more of themselves .

So discipline yourself , have that routine , manage your energy , save it , use it for the proper times you know . And one more practice I would always tell everybody to do is keep on connecting with people . It's not about the number of followers you have on linkedin . It's not about who's connected with you on linkedin . Be a people's person .

A people leader is the one who goes a long way . Understand people . In a generation of ai , learn to build that connection of understanding people and learning about them , reading their minds and then building that connection .

We how many times have we actually said oh , I'm so grateful for my team , I'm so grateful at least I have a boss , I'm so grateful that I have a company and a cell ? We just take it for granted , right ? So be grateful professionally and personally . Start your day with reflection , with meditation .

Meditation can do so much wonders and I've seen so many ceos whom I work with when I talk to them , do meditation from anywhere . You don't have to have a particular you know pattern to follow or anything , just whoever . Whatever works for you , but spend that much of time for yourself .

Don't start the day just hustling around the house and you know , doing the housework or doing the office work or something . Spend time for yourself . Go for a walk , watch the sunrise , right . So give that much of time .

I know of a CEO who told me once that whenever he wakes up in the morning he spends 45 minutes only and only in reflection , nothing else . He said it has worked wonders in my , in my career . It has helped me develop a strong gut , intuitiveness inside of me , where I do not depend on others .

I know what my intuition is saying and that's how he has grown . So all these things we learn , you know , while we are in the sports industry , or you know when we are in the other industries like , for example , aerospace . We are taught all that , but when it comes to the corporate and business world , we feel all this is secondary .

Actually , this is the major reasons of being successful . Okay , and that's what I have seen interesting interesting .

Is it as powerful to have that break , to wake up to get to work and do it at work before you start ? Is that still something you would recommend ?

By the time you reach work , you might be in a great mood and you hear your boss telling you that , oh my goodness , the project you gave was horrible . Then your entire state of mind is changed after that . So morning , if you , I would say , always wake up early for yourself okay and while sleeping . Give 15 minutes to yourself before sleeping .

No phones , nothing around you , just 15 minutes for yourself before sleeping .

All of that are the external powers , corporate politics . We don't use them right , we don't leverage them . We shy away from saying that I can use my chair and my designation to get certain work done . So you have to know how to use those external powers from which you're shying off .

And then there are so many internal powers Like , for example , do you know how to use those external powers from which you're shying off ? And then there are so many internal powers like , for example , do you know how to bet on yourself , right ? Do you know how to build up that confidence ?

Do you know how to read people's mind , because great leaders are mind readers for their employees . So all of those powers are what helps you to make it to the top . So that's the latest book which I have written just got recently published in New York and , of course , it's available worldwide .

And the previous books have been about how leadership you know you need to have think of it as a game . You don't have to think of it that it's a duty or a title or a responsibility . It's a game that you are playing every single day . So how well are you playing your game ? How much are you building your circles ?

How much are you getting into influential circles ? So we don't talk about these things . We feel these are manipulative , we feel these are not needed . But no , these are . You have to accept them . It's a very tough corporate and business world out there . You have to know how to navigate it successfully if you want to reach up there .

People will see the change in you . You will be able to better respond to situations and circumstances . You will not be dependent on respond to situations and circumstances . You will not be dependent on people to get you up there .

You will see yourself moving forward and people talking about you and wanting you , and that's when you know the game is changing in your favor . You're not standing in line anymore , you're standing outside the line and moving ahead . You're so distinguished you're not in line . You're just not in line waiting for the promotion and moving ahead .

You're so distinguished You're not in line . You're just not in line waiting for the promotion , for that salary increment .

So if you're operating at a level 80 or something and your people are operating at a level of 40 and 50 , well , I think that gap is quite a lot . So you have to make sure , how are your people growing ? And I'll tell you something , albert many leaders are are very insecure , very insecure that my people will rise above me . And why is that insecurity there ?

Because you are not doing anything to raise your level , to raise your game , game .

I remember I had a promotion and I got into a leadership role and I'm up there telling all the people come on , come on . You need to come up , you need to come up . Well , nobody was coming up . Why ? Because I'm just standing on the mountaintop shouting and screaming my lungs out that you also can do it . I'm showing you the way .

Come up , this is how you come .

They wanted me to come down , be with them and walk that path with them . That's what closes the gap . So when I learned that my team became successful , making me successful , Perfect .

Be supportive that they are going to come through the ranks , by the way right , but you're going to help them with that , right . So that's really important . When we talk about our outcomes and our results , I would say to our listeners think about whether that's one of the outcomes you're looking for . What effect are you having on your team ? Right ?

What have we not asked you that would be really useful for our audience to to know or understand .

And I always remember a time when my books had 22 rejections , like my first book had 22 rejections in the United States and it was a 23rd publisher that took up the book publishing and everything . So you know , and plus , I became one of the I think one of the only or the few women to be in this field , indian American women to be in this field .

So I think everybody needs to understand that failure is what actually takes you up there in any way . Not that I've reached somewhere , but failure is something that really , really teaches you so much more than what success can teach you . I think success doesn't teach you much . Failure teaches you everything in your life .

So true , the content that the , the content , the ideas , the thoughts you've just shared will be incredibly valuable for any of our leaders and aspiring leaders listening to this podcast . So thank you for for joining us today . Um and and albert , would you like to do the wrap up today ?

But also give us your views on what we've just talked about with Payal here . Lots of insight there , lots of connections and things we've talked about before , but really appreciate the time you spent with this pile all the best guys , thanks very much for joining us .