News laws and regulations are changing by the day. We get it. And at ADP, we're here to help guide you with up-to-the-minute compliance expertise so you can pay your people accurately and on time, regardless of what each new day may bring. Learn more at adp.com.
Okay, and we're live. So welcome to episode six of the Leadership Zoom Cast. Fantastic to see everyone. And uh welcome back. Thank you for watching. Albert, how are you doing today?
I'm good. I'm good. It's been a busy week, actually. We've had a few things going on. You and I have managed to spend some time together. I've had some other things going on. And um, yeah, interesting stuff actually.
It's been great. I've I've had a great week too, actually. Well, it's Thursday today, so get confusing with all the days, but it's Thursday today, and actually the last two days I've had face-to-face meetings for the first time since lockdown. Uh you know, uh and mainly all outside, of course. Yeah, and so you know, yes uh Tuesday you you and I met up and we had a you know a bit of a walk. We were hoping to go out sailing, but we couldn't, so we went for a walk and had a good catch-up.
And uh yesterday I was out walking with a couple of clients that I'm you know tired of seeing on Zoom, and I just thought it'd be great to see them face to face. Covered about 10 miles walking in the end with both got completely soaked. Um, but it was great just to get together and and have a and actually it leads really nicely onto the topic for for this week. So that's it's been good actually. The walk. Um so so yeah, it's been and how's the feedback looking?
How have you said how's the feedback on the podcast?
It's it's it's not bad actually, it's a little bit quieter than the week before. Uh episode five was a little bit quieter, but you know, we've been talking to a lot of people. A lot of people are getting back to work, a lot of people are now back into their their normal run and and not maybe getting to the screen like they do, but it sometimes kind of comes through. But that's okay. We're getting some good comments, and I think having Gene with us last week was a really good session. So, yeah.
I actually was talking to a guy yesterday, one of the guys I coached, he said, I was watching you and Alfred over the weekend. He said it was great.
Listen, you and I have had that for years, right? If it's not Alfred, it's Joseph, so that's okay. Oh, yeah, that's true, yeah. Okay, yeah, exactly.
So look, um, and today's topic is um we it kind of spun off from last week and we said we wanted to cover it because it's a really, really important topic. And I've got a funny feeling might get a bit passionate in this conversation. Uh, but the topic is about looking after yourself as a leader and the importance of looking after yourself as a leader. So let me let you kick off with your initial thoughts on that.
Well, I think you know, the the thing is we get taken, the job takes over, right? So we're always in the job, we're all spending all the hours there, we're all spending all the time there. Um, for me personally, I think you've got to look at what's important in in what makes you perform to your best. Um, what's the best tool that you've got? What's the best tool you've got to be able to be successful and do your best?
Well, to me, of course, it's Zoom, isn't it?
Yeah, Zoom down. Other platforms are available. Um, but um, to me, it's your mind, it's your body. If you haven't got the right energy levels, if you haven't got the right drive, if you haven't got the right ability to keep going and to feel good every day, then all the rest of it doesn't really matter. Would you get by? Yeah, I think you get by. Could you be the best ever that you could be to the top of your potential? No. I mean, that's my opening, that's my opening view on it, Neil.
So I'll just do my preparation as you're talking, actually. So that's but no, so so I actually wrote down that the first thing I wanted to kind of cover was why is it important to look after yourself as a leader? And and and because that's you, you know, you get lots of excuses, you know, I haven't got time to do that.
You know, yeah, that I I'll do it when I'm you know when I've got time or when I've got this organized or when I've got myself structured, I'll get on round to looking after myself. Um, but I think there are three reasons why, three things I wrote down. Firstly, it's about you and yourself.
You've got to look after yourself because any leadership role, whether you're a first-line manager or whether you're a managing director or chief executive of business, there is a stress level that goes with that. And there is a lifestyle that goes with that that typically isn't healthy, you know, with travel and long hours and all that kind of stuff. So you've got to look after yourself because what's the alternative?
You don't look after yourself, and we've seen it, unfortunately, we've seen it in people we know well who have become ill. And you know, they're there the stress, the amount of people off with stress in in companies has gone up massively over the years. I think mainly because mental health is better understood these days. Yeah, but but also we know people who've died, you know.
We know people who've burnt themselves out by the time they're in their mid-50s, they've stressed themselves so much, their blood pressure is so high, their diabetes, diabetic, and they burnt out. And unfortunately, they've died or they've got really, really ill, got really bad illnesses. So you've got to do it for yourself. Uh what what do you think?
No, but I think so. I think an important point around that one is the timing of that, right? So you could probably do it for a short period. Yeah, you could probably do it for five, six years, I don't know, because it is years, it's not months. You probably could, but then have you just limited your career? Have you just limited your life? Um, and it's just take me to another place, actually. Your career is not your life. I mean, guys watching this, maybe it is for you, right?
But certainly what I've found since I came out of the corporate world is my life is not my job, right? My life is bigger than that with my family, with my friends, and with other things that I do. So the other thing about this is making sure that you can have a life. Because if you work so crazy without looking after yourself, and your weekend becomes nothing more than locking yourself in the dark room ready for Monday morning, that ain't a life. But you decide, right?
You decide what's important to you.
I I agree, and actually, your people, it's not their life either. So it's got you've got to remember that as well. I see this too often in businesses where the leader thinks that we just gotta be pushed, pushed, pushed, we've got to drive, drive, drive.
And when they they send an email on Saturday night and there's been no response by Sunday morning, they think someone's slacking, or that you know they're they've so they their expectations are right, and that creates, and this is the other the second point I was gonna make.
So it's really important you look after yourself for you, but it's really important that you look after yourself because you're setting the standards for the business or your team, and people look to you for guidance and advice. And if if you're working seven days a week and you're um you're working late in the evening and and you're not looking after yourself mentally, physically, uh, etc., then it's a bad example to everyone else around you.
Yeah. I think the good thing is there's a lot more awareness about it, right? So companies that you see, you know, one of the companies I used to work for, they had a no-weekend email policy, right? They would not send emails on a weekend. Now, hell, you'd get a hell of a load of stuff on a Monday morning, but they would not send emails on a weekend. And if somehow someone got through the net and sent it, you had no need to answer that. That wasn't a French company, was it?
It was a French company, yeah.
Because they did implement a policy in France, which I really like actually, is about no emails going out after six o'clock in the evening. And they and they had servers that block them, didn't they? They had to set up certain companies that had to block and the weekends as well.
Yeah. And by the way, that's not a bad thing because look, I'm I'm not I'm not saying you stop thinking about your job when you're not working. We're always thinking about it as a leader, you are always thinking about it because you're looking at how can I improve, you're thinking about your people, you're thinking about how it's performing. Um, but that thinking is a separate task from doing. Yeah, that's a separate task from sitting in front of spreadsheets and emails, right?
And I I think so one of the things that frustrates the hell out of me, and it always had did in the past, is this ego that you see in leaders that think they they have to be the toughest.
I mean, Christ, we excuse my language, we've got some great examples around the world now of leaders who think the answer is to be the toughest person in the you know, in and and it's not, you know, if you're first person in the car park, last person out of the car park, and you're working weekends, that's just ego, you know, you've got to be the last one in the bar because you know that's what leaders do. That's rubbish, it's absolute rubbish. Leaders do not do that.
That is just poor leadership if you think your ego is is is needed. You need to, you have to be the toughest person. That is rubbish, that is poor leadership.
And you're right, we we touched on this last week, actually, right? And and and we have seen situations where that's happened. So is that outdated leadership and is that outdated management style? Yeah, it is. It probably had a place once upon a time, and the worst thing about it was everybody was competing with each other, right? So it just got completely out of hand.
Thankfully, I think we've moved beyond that, and we've moved to a place where you're looking at how do you make best use of your time and how do you make best use of looking after yourself to be the best for your team and your business.
Yeah, yeah, I think so. And I think so. The if we if we we because we want to move on to the the how. Um I think the the first two whys we've talked about are look after yourself for your own benefit, don't don't wait till it's urgent and important, deal with it when it's not urgent and important. Um, the second thing is about your team and your people, because if you set the wrong example or have the wrong expectations, you're damaging them as well.
And also you're also losing their respect as well because they don't respect you. And the third thing is you if you don't look after yourself, your business is gonna suffer. Yeah, because you can't operate at your best if you haven't got if your brain is all groggy because you're carrying extra weight, or you're not um you're not looking after your mind, or you're not drinking enough water, or you're just not looking after yourself. How are you gonna make good decisions for your business?
Yeah, yeah. It's exactly what I was gonna say about decision making, right? Your decision making when you're tired, your decision making when you're not feeling at your best may not be the best decisions, right? Um, and sometimes you make those decisions and you can't come back from them. So I think you're absolutely right. You need to be at the top of your game as much as you can, you need to be at the top of your game all the time.
You know, we could we could allow we could compare this to sports or whatever, if you like, right? Sports people train to be at their best all the time. Or they think maybe for this championship I won't bother. I'll be a little bit less. They always train to be the best they can. Um, and whatever that takes. So, yeah, we'll get onto the house because whether that's sleep, food, you know, rest, whatever, right?
And actually, there was a um I was watching a YouTube video recently with uh news laws and regulations are changing by the day.
We get it. And at ADP, we're here to help guide you with up-to-the-minute compliance expertise so you can pay your people accurately and on time, regardless of what each new day may bring. Learn more at adp.com.
Okay, and we're live. So welcome to episode six of the leadership zoom cast. Fantastic to see everyone, and uh welcome back. Thank you for watching. Albert, how are you doing today?
I'm good, I'm good. It's been a busy week, actually. We've had a few things going on. Well, you and I have managed to spend some time together. I've had some other things going on, and um, yeah, interesting stuff actually.
It's been great. I've I've had a great week too, actually. Well, it's it's Thursday today, so get confusing with all the days, but it's Thursday today, and actually the last two days I've had face-to-face meetings for the first time since lockdown. Uh and mainly all outside, of course. Yeah, and so you know, yes, uh Tuesday you you and I met up and we had a you know a bit of a walk. We were hoping to go out sailing, but we couldn't, so we went for a walk and had a good catch-up.
And uh yesterday I was out walking with a couple of clients that I'm you know tired of seeing on Zoom, and I just thought it'd be great to see them face to face. Covered about 10 miles walking in the end with both got completely soaked. Um, but it was great just to get together and and have a and actually it leads really nicely onto the topic for for this week. So that's it's been good actually. The walk. So so yeah, it's been and how's the feedback looking?
How have you said how's the feedback on the podcast? It's it's it's not bad actually.
It's a little bit quieter than the week before. Uh episode five was a little bit quieter, but you know, we've been talking to a lot of people. A lot of people are getting back to work, a lot of people are now back into their their normal run and not maybe getting to the screen like they do, but it sometimes kind of comes through. But that's okay. We're getting some good comments, and I think having Gene with us last week was a really good session. So, yeah.
I actually was talking to a guy yesterday, one of the guys I coached, he said, I was watching you and Alfred over the weekend. He said it was great.
Listen, you and I have had that for years, right? If it's not Alfred, it's Joseph, so that's okay. Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, exactly.
So look, um, and today's topic is um we it kind of spun off from last week, and we said we wanted to cover it because it's a really, really important topic. And I've got a funny feeling it might get a bit passionate in this conversation. Uh, but the topic is about looking after yourself as a leader and the importance of looking after yourself as a leader. So let me let you kick off with your initial thoughts on that.
Well, I think you know, the the thing is we get taken, the job takes over, right? So we're always in the job, we're all spending all the hours there, we're all spending all the time there. Um, for me personally, I think you've got to look at what's important in what makes you perform to your best. Um, what's the best tool that you've got? What's the best tool you've got to be able to be successful and do your best?
Well, to me, of course, it's Zoom, isn't it?
Yeah, Zoom's out. Other platforms are available. Um, but um, to me, it's your mind, it's your body. If you haven't got the right energy levels, if you haven't got the right drive, if you haven't got the right ability to keep going and to feel good every day, then all the rest of it doesn't really matter. Would you get by? Yeah, I think you get by. Could you be the best ever that you could be to the top of your potential? No. I mean, that's my opening, that's my opening view on it, Neil.
So I'll just do my preparation as you're talking, actually. So that's but no, so so I actually wrote down that the first thing I wanted to kind of cover was why is it important to look after yourself as a leader? And and and because that's you, you know, you get lots of excuses, you know, I haven't got time to do that.
You know, yeah, that I I'll do it when I've you know when I've got time or when I've got this organized or when I've got myself structured, I'll get on round to looking after myself. Um, but I think there are three reasons why, three things I wrote down. Firstly, it's about you and yourself.
You've got to look after yourself because any leadership role, whether you're a first-line manager or whether you're a managing director or chief executive of business, there is a stress level that goes with that. And there is a lifestyle that goes with that that typically isn't healthy, you know, with travel and long hours and all that kind of stuff. So you've got to look after yourself because what's the alternative?
You don't look after yourself, and we've seen it, unfortunately, we've seen it in people we know well who have become ill, and you know, they're there the stress that the amount of people off with stress in in companies has gone up massively over the years. I think mainly because mental health is better understood these days.
Yeah.
But also, we know people who've died. You know, we know people who've burnt themselves out by the time they're in their mid-50s, they've stressed themselves so much, their blood pressure is so high, their diabetes, diabetic, and they burnt out. And unfortunately, they've died or they've got really, really ill, got really bad illnesses. So you've got to do it for yourself. What do you think?
No, but I think so. I think an important point around that one is the timing of that, right? So you could probably do it for a short period. Yeah, you could probably do it for five, six years, I don't know, because it is years, it's not months. You probably could, but then have you just limited your career? Have you just limited your life? Um, and it's just take me to another place, actually. Your career is not your life. I mean, guys watching this, maybe it is for you, right?
But certainly what I've found since I came out of the corporate world is my life is not my job, right? My life is bigger than that with my family, with my friends, and with other things that I do. So the other thing about this is making sure that you can have a life. Because if you work so crazy without looking after yourself, and your weekend becomes nothing more than locking yourself in the dark room ready for Monday morning, that ain't a life. But you decide, right?
You decide what's important to you.
I I agree, and actually, your people, it's not their life either. So it's got you've got to remember that as well. I see this too often in businesses where the leader thinks that we just gotta be pushed, push, push, we've got to drive, drive, drive.
And when they they send an email on Saturday night and there's been no response by Sunday morning, they think someone's slacking, or that you know they're they've so they their expectations are right, and that creates, and this is the other the second point I was gonna make.
So it's really important you look after yourself for you, but it's really important that you look after yourself because you're setting the standards for the business or your team, and people look to you for guidance and advice. And if if you're working seven days a week and you're um you're working late in the evening and and you're not looking after yourself mentally, physically, uh, etc., then it's a bad example to everyone else around you.
Yeah. I think the good thing is there's a lot more awareness about it now, right? So companies that you see, you know, one of the companies I used to work for, they had a no-weekend email policy, right? They would not send emails on a weekend. Now, hell, you'd get a hell of a load of stuff on a Monday morning, but they would not send emails on a weekend. And if somehow someone got through the net and sent it, you had no need to answer that. That wasn't a French company, was it?
It was a French company, yeah.
Because uh they did implement a policy in France, which I really like actually, is about no emails going out after six o'clock in the evening, and they and they had servers that block them, didn't they? They had to set up companies and the weekends as well.
Yeah. And by the way, that's not a bad thing, because look, that's I'm I'm not I'm not saying you stop thinking about your job when you're not working. We're always thinking about it as a leader. You are always thinking about it because you're looking at how can I improve, you're thinking about your people, you're thinking about how it's performing. Um, but that thinking is a separate task from doing. Yeah, that's a separate task from sitting in front of spreadsheets and emails, right?
And I I think so one of the things that frustrates the hell out of me, and it always had did in the past, is this ego that you see in leaders that think they they have to be the toughest.
I mean, Christ, we excuse my language, we've got some great examples around the world now of leaders who think the answer is to be the toughest person in the you know, in and and it's not, you know, if you're first person in the car park, last person out of the car park, and you're working weekends, that's just ego. You know, you've got to be the last one in the bar because you know that's what leaders do. That's rubbish, it's absolute rubbish. Leaders do not do that.
That is just poor leadership if you think your ego is is is needed. You need to, you have to be the toughest person. That is rubbish, that is poor leadership.
And you're right, we we touched on this last week, actually, right? And and and we have seen situations where that's happened. So is that outdated leadership and is that outdated management style? Yeah, it is. It probably had a place once upon a time, and the worst thing about it was everybody was competing with each other, right? So it just got completely out of hand.
Thankfully, I think we've moved beyond that, and we've moved to a place where you're looking at how do you make best use of your time and how do you make best use of looking after yourself to be the best for your team and your business.
Yeah, yeah, I think so. And I think so. The if we if we we because we want to move on to the the how, um I think the the first two whys we've talked about are look after yourself for your own benefit, don't don't wait till it's urgent and important, deal with it when it's not urgent and important. Um, the second thing is about your team and your people, because if you set the wrong example or have the wrong expectations, you're damaging them as well.
And also you're also losing their respect as well because they don't respect you. And the third thing is you if you don't look after yourself, your business is gonna suffer. Yeah, because you can't operate at your best if you haven't got if your brain is all groggy because you're carrying extra weight, or you're not um you're not looking after your mind, or you're not drinking enough water, or you're just not looking after yourself. How are you gonna make good decisions for your business?
Yeah, yeah. It's exactly what I was gonna say about decision making, right? Your decision making when you're tired, your decision making when you're not feeling at your best may not be the best decisions, right? Um, and sometimes you make those decisions and you can't come back from them. So I think you're absolutely right. You need to be at the top of your game as much as you can, you need to be at the top of your game all the time.
You know, we could we could allow we could compare this to sports or whatever, if you like, right? Sports people train to be at their best all the time, or they think maybe for this championship I won't bother. I'll be a little bit less. They always train to be the best they can. Um, and whatever that takes, so yeah, we'll get onto the house because whether that's sleep, food, you know, rest, whatever, right?
And actually, there was a um I was watching a YouTube video recently with uh Tony Robbins on it, and he was talking about leadership, and he said, you know, one of one of the key things about you see in great leaders is great leaders look after themselves physically and mentally, yeah, because they cannot influence and lead if they're coming from a place of personal weakness or you know ill ill ease in themselves. So that's it's so it's so important.
Um so I think I think we've got the point across about how important it is and why it's important. Okay.
Well, the only other point I would make on that one is you and I have always been engaged in some level of fitness and and wealth, right? Maybe to different degrees that when we were first engineers, we we we probably misbehaved a bit more than we should have done, right? But as we came through the ranks, I think we did it more and more. Did that make a difference to how successful we are? I don't think it was I don't think it was a coincidence.
Well actually, and when I look around all the different companies I work with, all the leaders I know, uh nearly all of them are have some kind of sport they're really focused on and interested in. Or they have some kind of gym regime or something that they do physically to keep themselves fit. I know very, very few successful leaders who don't look after themselves and and or aren't conscious of it, and therefore you know they're just ignoring it.
You know, you yeah, you you can someone say, Yeah, but I know this person who's massively overweight, never done any exercise, and he's a really successful guy. Brilliant. There are exceptions to the rule, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, so I think that that's it is important, and there are great examples, you know. You you have to look after yourself, and there are most great leaders do that. And so this is about how to become a great leader, this pop this Zoom cast, this podcast.
And so that's the key message from this is make sure you're looking after yourself.
Absolutely right.
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So let's talk about the how then. So, what would be some of your base, what have you seen best practice in this space?
I would think making sure you've got a balance, I won't say work-life balance, because that's kind of almost old hat. A balance between where you do work, where you do rest, where you do think, where you do do other things, where you spend time with people other than the people you spend time at work with. Having that balance and having something else you can take your mind to, I think is important. That's the place that I'd start.
And now you could you could measure that because you'd know how many hours and how many days you're spending where. Don't get me wrong, you're involved in a big deal or you're involved in a major business change, and you could be locked away for days having to do that. That's fine. Because it happens. But on an ongoing basis, you need to make sure there's a balance between how much you're working, how much you're relaxing, and how much you're putting your brain to something other than your job.
Well, I think even even when you're busy, right? You you and Gene talked about this last week, you need that routine. And most successful leaders have a routine in the morning. They have a routine they you know, they're up early and they have a routine they typically follow that involves something to do with physical uh exercise and something to do with mindfulness. They will they will have it.
So even when they're busy, it might only be a 20-minute run or a 20-minute uh gym session instead of 40 minutes on a normal day, but they'll do something. Um because because you've got to have that, in my view, and in my experience and people I've worked with, you have to have that time for yourself first thing in the morning to kick start the body.
You know, how can you how can you come in and influence a team if you're if you haven't got your own oxygen levels going, your own blood flowing, and you've got your own uh endorphins up ready to come in for the day?
Yeah, yeah, and absolutely right. It's funny, you just triggered something in my mind about you know having that routine. Um years ago, when I was in early management, I remember I used to get migraines every Saturday morning. Right. 100% guaranteed, and I never really got it. And in the company I was working at the time, you know, they sent you for executive health checks, right?
And at this executive health check, I told them about the situation, and the doctor looked at it, and everybody looked at it and nobody sorted it out. But this this person that I was talking to then, this psychologist said that well, she was a psychologist, maybe, and said, Tell me about your week. What do you do for a job? I'm a sales manager, okay. Lots of hours, high stress, full energy. Yeah, and you do that all week, yeah.
And you do that for five days, and then what do you do on the weekend? Well, Saturday morning, normally my son plays football, so 10 o'clock we go after football. Okay, what time do you get up for football? I said, uh, probably about nine o'clock. What time do you get up during the week? Normally, it's 6 30. I'm on it. She said, That's exactly what you do. You're running at this level all the week, and then you suddenly drop off on a Friday night.
And your body is used to getting up and getting activated, and when you don't do that, your brain can't cope with the fact that it's Saturday. So a routine is really important. It doesn't mean get up on a Saturday morning and start work, it means get up on a Saturday morning and get your brain working because that's what it wants you to do. You could do something with it, it doesn't have to be dedicated to your job. But yeah, the thought about the routine is really quite important.
Yeah, and I think that that that routine needs to involve a number of things, you know. And and you know, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a fitness expert, but I I know what works for me and I know what works for other people. And you mentioned sleep, actually, I hadn't written that down, but sleep is really key. Having really good night's sleep.
Um, you know, I used to think, I remember watching an Arnold Schwarzenegger YouTube clip um ages ago, and uh it was when he was um he was governor of California and he was talking about how to be successful, and he said, All you need is six hours sleep a night. And people say to me, Well, I need more sleep than that. And he said, I just tell them sleep faster.
So he so I used to set my alarm clock six hours after I went to bed, and and whatever time I went to bed, I said it for six hours later because I thought, well, if it's good for Arnie, it's good for me. And then I then I went and uh learned about sleep. I went to a sleep specialist uh presentation and learnt about sleep and realized that actually this you know everyone's slightly different. Different, but you need a good amount of sleep for your body to recover and to reset the brain.
So the brain stops thinking about stuff and it has a chance to reset so that you can then work effectively the next day. You know, when you wake up when you've got that groggy head, yeah, yeah. That's when you haven't had enough sleep because the brain hasn't had a chance to reset. Well, it could be to do with too many pints, but um, but so so the so so sleep. I don't know what what what if what have you learned about sleep?
But that's interesting, right? Because I personally feel more groggy if I have too much sleep.
Okay, all right.
So six, seven hours works really well for me, eight and a half, nine, I'm ten, I'm feeling really bad. So as you say, it's personal, it's down to each individual. Does it make you a better person if you sleep less? No, I don't don't don't think there's a scale here, guys, that you're tougher because you can only do six hours' sleep. Maybe that's all your body needs. Yeah, some people need to to relax more in an afternoon, right? And have a power nap. I don't know if that works for your body.
So power naps are proven that's proven to work really, really powerfully. A lot of companies, you know, look at Google and you know, they all encourage that.
Yeah. What I would say, guys, is listen to your body. Your body's telling you things on an on a regular basis, but you've got to learn your own body and you've got to listen to it and do what you think is right for you. And take it if I don't do physical exercise, does that make me feel worse? Yeah, I've got to do physical exercise. Right. Does it have to be every day for six hours? No. So listen to your body.
Yeah, and I think, well, so let's move on to that, right? So sleep is one of the the pillars of of looking after yourself. Um, some kind of physical exercise has got to be part of looking after yourself as well.
Whether it's going for a walk, going for a run, cycling, going to the gym, something that you do on a regular basis uh that that is going to get that blood flowing through the body and wake up all of the muscles and just everything in the in you and get the blood to the brain, the oxygen flowing to the brain.
You're you're you're running every morning now, right?
I am at the moment, yeah. And I I did for many, many years run every single day. Yeah. Not not always, you know. You don't have to run a lot. Sometimes it might be half an hour because I've got to go and catch a train to London. But I will always make sure I get that in.
So what what was the motivation for that? What was the drive that got you doing that?
Yeah, good question. I mean, and and for me, some of the time it was training for events. Um but part of it was, and it still is now. I mean, still do it now. It's time for yourself before you give yourself to everyone else. Okay, you know, that's that do and and you know, you can listen to a podcast and so you can learn something as well during that time.
Being in nature is really important, being out, you know, I personally because I live in the countryside, being out amongst trees and in nature, that's proven to really help you mentally. Um, and obviously the oxygen is much better when you're out in the countryside as well. So, no, that's what works for me.
Yeah, it's interesting because it sounds like we're saying you need to take a lot of time to plan to do these things, right? But it doesn't need to be overbearing, guys, right? You need to just make sure one of your priorities is you. As a leader, one of your priorities has to be you, and you need to decide how best you're gonna do that, whether it's about sleep or exercise or whatever. Um, but but you've got to make sure that priority is there, yeah.
And it doesn't have to be so doing something in the morning, I think, is really have taken that time. Tony Robbins calls it the hour of power. Other people have taught it, you know, this this and you can like I did yesterday, you can go for a walk with customers or employees, or you know, whoever you work you need to have a meeting with. Why not just block out an hour and instead of sitting down in a meeting room with a load of PowerPoint, go out for a walk?
Go and have a conversation, go out for it and get the blood flowing. Um so if we move on to kind of so sleep exercise, some kind of physical exercise, and and everybody knows that, and especially at the moment, you need to boost your immune system, you know, get your immune system working. Uh, so then the mind. Let's talk about the mind and and how you might look after your mind. What have you seen?
Well, let's let's just do one more on body. Is there anything we want to talk about on diet? Um okay, go on. I mean, uh again, it it's about food food is partly enjoyment, right? But food is also about fuel for your body. So you've also got to think about are you eating and drinking all the right stuff? We all have we all go out and misbehave now and again, we all have social events and we do all of those good things. But having enough water, I mean perfect timing, right?
Having enough water in your body, um, having making sure you're eating all the right stuff. I think Tony Robbins calls it wet food, right? Make sure you have enough wet food. So you so again, look, I we're we're not gonna be experts here about what the right diet is, but what we would say is make sure you've got the right balance and give yourself food that is fuel for your body, not just enjoyment for yourself. I think that's gotta be important.
Yeah, uh so correct. And look, intelligent people, everyone knows what they should and shouldn't eat. Does it doesn't mean they do what they're you know, we don't always do what we know. We know what to do, but we don't always do what we know. Um, but it's being conscious of that, drinking lots of water is really important.
One of the things I found work really well, by the way, talking about diet, is uh fasting and fasting for 16 hours and then having an eight-hour feed period, which is kind of come out of the US in the last 12-18 months, and it's prove it's proven to really help increase the amount of um growth hormones and growth cells in the body, which helps with your mind and helps with your brain.
And um, and I find if I eat, you know, sort of six o'clock, seven o'clock in the evening, and then don't have anything else apart from water and black coffee till 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock, I you go through a little bit of a period in the morning where you're hungry, but I'm fired up and awake in the afternoon instead of being tired. So I find it works really well. So that's another good thing I've learned.
Yeah. So again, look at it for yourselves, guys. You know, decide what you think works for you. So sorry, no, you were saying, let's get on to mind.
Yeah, let's talk about the mind then, and and looking after the mind and and how you manage stress, how you manage your own mind so that you've got clarity to be able to make decisions, be healthy. What's your thoughts, experience around that?
So stress is a good one, isn't it? Because there might be a belief that stress is a bad thing, right? It's it's not, guys. The right level of stress and the right type of stress is a good thing. It keeps you alert, it keeps you on your game, right? And and that's just the way that we've evolved over time, right? So, you know, you need to have that level of stress that keeps you competitive, that keeps you engaged, keeps you in an area of discomfort, right? Like we said, right?
No success comes from from being in an area of comfort, right? So you need to be in that in that space. So it's just a myth I wanted to make sure we dispelled here, right? Stress is not a bad thing.
I think also stress uh is different things to different people, depending on where you're coming from, and depending on, and everyone has a different level of uncomfortableness that they can manage.
Um but having techniques for how you you you manage your mind is so you know, I I meditate every day, I have done for years and years and years, and it's really interesting when you talk to some of the so Tim Ferris did a book and he taught some of the most successful people in the world in politics, in sport, in uh movies, in in all sorts of areas, and in the in the army, and nearly all of them had some kind of meditation they did every day, whether it you know, whether it was in the morning or
in the evening, some of them both, morning and evening. But meditation's been proven to kind of help clear the mind, clear the uh get everything like the sleep, resetting the the brain, but also just it reduces the levels of chemicals in the body that create stress. Um, so and and you can get lots of apps around mindfulness now as well. Mindfulness is is a is a a way that people talk about meditation these days.
Yeah. I've never done it actually. I've not I've not taken the time to do that, I've not made it a priority. It's something I think I should go and look at and see.
I think I've seen you, I'm sure I've seen you meditating in meetings when you've got it phased out.
It was some great meditation in some of those sessions.
But do you know meditation isn't something you know I have this conversation with a lot of people I coach is you know about meditation. Oh, I don't know whether I can get into that zone and that that uh kind of rip that place space where I'm just zoned out.
So look, it it don't worry about it, just sit there, breathe, focus on your breathing, close your eyes, sit comfortably up straight, just breathe in through your nose and out through your nose, and just keep um your eyes shut and just clear your mind, focus on the breathing. And even if thoughts pop in, it's okay. That just let them come in and let them float out. Uh you know what?
I think I know a good place to trigger that, and that if you've never been for a massage. Honestly, if you go for a full-body massage, you can just kind of lose yourself in that, right? If you can become relaxed, right? Some people can't relax themselves in that situation. But the first time that I had a full-body massage, I just completely disconnected. And it just shows right, you can do it. You can do it.
So that might be another thing to think about when you're looking at um how you look after yourself is booking in some of those things like massages and stuff. Because people do say that uh it releases a lot of the lymph around the body by doing it. So the mindfulness piece is really key, and and Headspace is an app that lots of people talk about. I know loads of people use it. Guided meditation is available on YouTube, there's so much out there, and it doesn't have to take long, 10 minutes max.
You know, you don't have to spend a lot of time on it, but just try it. I would highly recommend it, it makes a huge, huge difference. Yeah. Um, one other thing I've written down here, are we okay to move on? Yeah, we're good. Yeah. Yeah. Um, is so we talked about uh meditate, we talked about physical, we've talked about uh food and health, um, we've talked about sleep, we've talked about the mind.
Um the other thing I wrote down, and it kind of came out of what Gene was talking about last week, is who are you gonna go to? Who are your cheerleaders, your mentors, the people that believe in you more than you believe in yourself? That when things aren't going so how what's your release valve? Who who's the person you can go and talk to when you know you but they and they're not in your line management because that kind of doesn't always work.
There's but who are your mentors uh to go and talk to them?
So that's important, isn't it? I mean, it could be a peer, it could be somebody who's you know, as you say, could be a mentor, could be a sponsor, um, but it's somebody that you feel comfortable having those conversations with without judgment, that you can reflect some conversations of, right? Gets you a different point of view. Um, look, if you could find yourself a coach, that's probably best, right?
If you could find a coach, and by the way, I recommend coaching.
If anyone's interested, I could recommend a really good coach.
But but to be honest, it's a good point because well, and it doesn't, you don't, you know, just because I coach, doesn't mean, but coaching leaders, what I find is I end up being they're especially people who own their own businesses, they have no one to talk to, they have no one to go to. So you kind of you you be there, you're the point of of release for them to have that conversation that's frustrating them, or it's that that opportunity to um yeah, to just to to to talk things through.
You know, I'm feeling this way. You can't, if you're running a business, it's difficult to talk about feelings with your team. So I do find that I end up being not like an agony art, but you you become a person who's helping someone to have conversations that they can't have within their own business.
I I would think that's a really good example of until somebody has spent time with a coach, some until someone has spent time having those free and un non non-judgmental conversations, you don't realise the value of it. You know, I don't need to talk to anybody here, I'm okay. Um, I've got people close to me now who I see could do with some support in that area, and you know, they they just believe they don't because they see it as not necessary. Yeah, will it make you better?
Will it make you more effective? And will it make your well-being overall a better place to be?
Yeah.
So so it's worth thinking about that, guys. Worth thinking about that.
Yeah, and and with some organizations, you know, that structure is there. Um, with others, you need to go and find it. I mean, I've personally used the coach for years and years and years uh to help me with so many different things. So, but that you know, there could be a mentor, it could be your wife. You know, my uh my my wife Anna's a fantastic uh point of contact to go to and have conversations about things that where I'm getting frustrated or don't know my way forward.
Yeah, um, you know, so I find her really helpful as well.
Yeah, yeah. I mean it's interesting because probably the closest conversations I have on that level now is with my son. Right. He's early in his career, you know, he's in sales and he behaves in a certain way. I guess I can see some of me and him and the things he's doing, but it's good conversations that you could bounce off on a level at which you can both understand each other, which is good from a business.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I didn't start a timer at the beginning of this, actually. So I I uh I didn't uh so I think we've probably done about 30 minutes, maybe.
I've got us at 30 minutes just about now.
Is it okay? All right, so good time to start pulling it together then. Is there any kind of final thoughts you wanted to add on this topic of looking after yourself as a leader?
Well, there's one more note that I've made that we haven't hit yet, and that is about celebrating success. Right? There are times at which you can celebrate success and they don't have to be big wins. Celebrating that success gives your brain a different way to operate as well and gives you a different feeling to feel good about the things you're doing. If all you're doing is pounding away on the treadmill and you don't see anything coming back, right, that's not going to be healthy for you.
But the success doesn't have to be big. Celebrate small wins. Your team have achieved something, find things to celebrate because I think that's really important that you give yourself that balance.
Yeah, well, psychologically it's really important because it it reinforces in your brain that you're doing the right things. Yeah, it's really important.
Yeah, overall, Neil, I think we've covered a lot of ground, and we did say we knew 30 minutes would be a challenge for this one, but um I'm hoping that we've hit some buttons there for people that they may not have thought of before.
And I think it's it's such an important topic, and maybe we need to revisit it at another point, and maybe we get a specialist guest on on this one.
Yeah, yeah.
In fact, I know I know a sleep specialist we could get on. That'd be an interesting conversation. But I think um, you know, this make sure, you know, if we're gonna get any message out, we've both said it, make sure you're making time for yourself. Make sure you're making time to look after yourself physically, mentally, well-being. Um, because it's good for you, it's good for your team, it's good for the business. Um, and you know, there's lots of ways of doing that.
Um, and just you know, drop the ego of being some tough leader because uh you know, John Wayne with a white hat, that isn't leading these days.
Think about your family, guys. Think about the people around you, right? That are having to endure what you're like when you're stressed or could help you being enjoyed.
Really, really good point as well. Yeah, so um, okay, so that's the end of episode six. Episode seven, we're gonna have a think about what we do on that. Uh, we have got with we're lining some guests up at the moment to to uh bring in to do some uh conversations that I think will be really interesting. Uh, but thank you for all of your comments, all your feedback. Please subscribe um below and give us a like or a thumbs up. Any comments you want to leave us, please do.
The podcasts are all available on Spotify and all that kind of stuff. I think that's the marketing message. I can't remember if there was anything else there.
That's it. I think you've hit all the buttons we need to. No, that's good.
All right, brilliant. Well, great to see you, Albert, and uh look forward to catching. Cheers, guys. Cheers. Take you there. Cheers, take care.
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