536: Navigating Leadership Shock with Pete Steinberg

Have you ever stepped into a leadership role and suddenly felt like everything you knew wasn't enough? That moment of uncertainty is what our guest today, Peter Steinberg, calls leadership shock. Why does it happen? How do you get to get to navigate through it? This is what we're gonna be talking about here today. Peter is an executive coach with over two decades of experience guiding leaders through significant transitions. He is the author of Leadership Shock, Using Authenticity to

Navigate the Hidden Dangers of Career Success. And, and he draws on his extensive background, including his tenure at the, as a as head coach of the USA women's rugby team and leading them to two rugby world cups. And he's also, coached at the Olympics in Rio. And he talks about this authentic leadership model,

which we're gonna talk about here. And it is a framework designed to help leaders examine their purpose, role, expectations, vision, and approach so that they can reset their leadership style and thrive in new settings. And so I'm really excited to have him here. Peter, welcome to Leaders Transformation. Nicole, very happy to be here. Well, it's great to have you, and and thank you

for your patience. I I know this has been a while coming for us to do this I I think I think I think both of us were responsible for it being a while. So I think it's like Yeah. Calendars get a little crazy. That's part of leadership shock. So crazy calendars and managing those. So no problem. Yes. Well and it's

funny. Full disclosure. Okay? So, for our for our listeners and and viewers coming on, normally, I'm on time, and I just think it's actually funny because as you were just saying that, I think it's funny because I was running behind. I was a little distracted and so forth. And And here we are. We're gonna be talking about leadership shock and and how do we navigate through this and the overwhelm of sometimes, like, just so much going on. And so let's start off there. Let's talk

about leadership shock. What is it? And, and then we can talk about some of, like, maybe some of the, you know, the common indicators, and then, of course, how do we how do we deal with it? Sure. So, you know, it it's it's interesting, Nicole, working as an executive coach. I was doing it I've I've been doing it for about ten years. And I started realizing that I was working with clients that all had the same challenge, and their challenge was that something had

changed. In in many cases, it was because they had taken a new role, but it could be that, actually, the organization around them had, changed. And I was asked to come in because they were struggling with with their performance. And these were often very they were high performance. They were people that were seen. They were in succession plans. And all of a sudden,

they weren't performing. And and and so about ten years in and and maybe a little bit later than I stood up, I said, oh, there's a there's a pattern here. Right? So let let let me investigate that a little bit. And I started, really focusing on this idea of being intentional and intentional leadership. And and and it's this idea that, every minute we have is valuable. And so every minute, how you spend it is valuable. And you really need to be explicit in developing,

both your priorities, but also how you wanna lead. And so so that's sort of the model, the authentic that that was the birth of the authentic leadership model. But now I think I've really been able to identify leadership shock. And in fact, since the book has come out, I've realized that there's probably degrees of shock. And and so, you know, leadership shock is my calendar's crazy. Like, I'm double, triple booked, and I don't know which meetings to take. My team is

confused. Right? So they're not exactly sure what I'm doing. At the end of the week, I felt like I haven't been able to make any progress. All I've done is been fighting fires, and I'm exhausted. And and I think those are the symptoms. And what I've realized since the book has come out is is that, people experience those in moments in their in their leadership, and those moments are really connected to transition. So something has changed. The market has changed. My boss

has changed. Something has changed. It's created a change in the dynamic.

And so what what happens is that for most leaders, because their leadership approach is so implicit, I just grew up. I just lead the way it naturally leads. It becomes really, really hard to actually change the way I lead when I get a different role. And so and so what what we try to do with with the authentic leadership model is help people make their leadership explicit, and we have a system for doing that. So it allows them when the context changes around

them, they can explicitly change the way that they lead. So I think I think the symptoms are this craziness and not being able to do stuff, but the cause is we actually don't think about the way we lead very much. And so we find ourselves often in these implicit places not understanding why things don't work anymore when it's

because we need to change the way that we lead. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's interesting that you say that because I can even relate as an entrepreneur, not, you know, working for someone else, but owning my own company that they and different seasons in my life where things have changed. And there's, like you said, markets change, circumstances change, you have a new launch. Right? Like, I'm in the process of launching a new venture, and it's like there's all these things. And I kinda liken

it to, like, a video game. Right? What got you to, you know, success at level one or level two will get you killed at level three, you know, kinda thing. Right? Yeah. No. It's exactly right. I love that. I love that analogy. Yeah. I I I think yeah. And so, you know, the interesting thing about the book is that the subtitle is navigating the hidden dangers of career success. Because if you are successful, like, at level one and level two, what's your incentive? Like, this is what's got me

here. When I'm in level three, why should I change? And then you get killed. Yeah. And they're like, oh, I should have changed. Right? So I think that's a great analogy. Yeah. Yeah. So I love your model there. Let's talk about the authentic leadership model and dive into that. And I love how your book, by the way, walks through it's like a story. So we we see the practical. You have the case studies in there, but there's this great story of this really, really busy

leader. And it's funny how you also tied in not just the interaction with them, but all with him, but also the interaction with his team and how the effect is so that they could so we can see as we read the book, we can see the holistic impact of when a leader is actually not, operating by this model. So, so I love I love that. So let's talk about what this model is and and even for our listeners and viewers that we like, and where

do we start with this? You know? So they can take they can have some takeaways. Yeah. It's it's it's interesting. Just quickly, I wrote the book so I would finish it. So I don't finish business books. I get, like, a third of the way through, and I've got it. And you actually tell me all the case studies and all the examples. So I wrote it as a narrative. Yeah. And so you have to read the end of the book because there's actually a quest. So if you don't read the end of the book,

you won't know what the twist is. And so it it was written particularly for the people that just wanna read narratives, but there's also a guide for you to, like, build your own authentic leadership model. Look. Let's just talk about this this term of authentic. Right? Because it gets thrown around a lot. Everyone says, I wanna be an authentic leader. In fact, I have worked with clients who said, well, I leave this way because it's authentic. Yeah. Right? Which is

really It's like I'm a jerk, but it's okay because I'm being authentically jerk. It's like, I'm a jerk, but I'm being authentic. I'm like, no. No. No. That's not what we mean about being authentic. Behavior isn't authentic. It's really grounded in the things that make that that are important to you. So so in in the model, there are things that are authentic to you, and then there are things that are contextual. So the authentic pieces are your purpose. So

that's the thing that really gets you up in the morning. Right? What fills your emotional tank? You know, when you have those weeks and you work sixty hours, but you it feels great at the end. Like, whatever you're doing there is fulfilling your purpose. It's it's it's doing the things that you're supposed to do. And my experience is that most people actually most leaders have never really thought about that. Like, their purpose when when I first asked leaders what their purpose

is, they're like, I'm gonna grow the business by 5%. I'm like, no. No. No.

That's not your purpose. Right? That's your vision for what you want. Your purpose is, like, what's important to you? What's the impact you wanna have in your life? And the reason why that's important is if I'm gonna really especially as a senior executive, if I'm gonna really be successful and sustainable over the long term, the things that I do have to

give me energy. And if I can explicitly connect the things that I do with the things that are fundamentally important to me, my, like, the my purpose, like, the impact I wanna make, then it's energy given. Right? If I don't do that, sometimes, like, then it then it's energy draining, and it's hard for me to so the part of the authentic piece is this purpose. That's sort of, like, the foundation of the model. And then there's two

other authentic pieces that I would consider authentic. Right? So so one is what are the strengths that you bring to this role? So I call that what's the value that you provide Right. In this role. Now that's different than what are your strengths. Mhmm. Right? And and and, in fact, the strengths that you had, it's a little bit like the things that we got got me through level two, get me killed in level three. Right? That's the

same thing here. Like like like, if I'm the director of finance and my strength is being in the details and I become the VP of finance, all of a sudden, my strength becomes a weakness. So being really intentional about what your strengths are you bring to the role and then truly understanding what your leadership beliefs are. Right? What is it that you think great leaders do? That's another way. Like like and, again, people haven't really thought about this. Like, there is no one leadership

model. Every every every authentic leadership model is different. Your beliefs about Nicole are different than my beliefs. They're not right and wrong. Wrong. They're the things that we believe. There are things from our experience, what we've read, like, the leaders that we've had, both that we liked and we didn't like. And so understanding truly what your leadership beliefs are, those things are really, really authentic. Right? Those are the things that are important to

you. And and and and I work with colleagues who do this work, and that's what they do. They say, hey. Look. That's the like, it's really about getting people to understand themselves. But the authentic leadership model

isn't just sort of like this purpose piece. It's contextual. Right? So it's like in this moment, something has changed, so it can't just be the authentic piece of you. And the two contextual pieces are vision, what do you wanna accomplish in the role that you have, and role expectation, What is it that the organization expects of you? So if you can take your purpose and your vision, your role expectation, then you can actually and

and the value that you provide, you can say, well, what are my priorities? What are the two or three things that I should be doing really focused on? And then if you take your purpose and you take your priorities and your leadership beliefs, then you can say, what's like, I understand I need to spend my time on these three or four things. How should I spend my time? What kind of leader should I be?

And so when you have your priorities and your, leadership approach or leadership principles, then that allows you to intentionally lead in this role that you have. And I think that's what gets people out of leadership shock. And I would just say that, it's a living document. It's not like I'm done. It is the it's just chillin in stone and put up on the wall. In fact, Nicole Massey, who's a vice president at Smuckers, she's in the book. It's,

it's one of the case studies in the book. And, when I was talking to her, about the case study, she said, oh, Pete. Like, hey. I when I was promoted to my new role, I pulled up my authentic leadership model, and I worked my way through it. Unfortunately, Nicole, like, I'm an entrepreneur too as a coach. I have a terrible business model because my goal is to make their

authentic leadership model self sustainable so they don't need me anymore. Yeah. So it's sort of like, work with me for four months, and you don't need me again. But that it that's really the power of it. The power of it is it gives you a way to intentionally think about your your leadership, like, forever. Right? Gives you a system to think about it. So that's really what the authentic leadership model is. Well, so I wanna just touch on something here which, I found really

interesting in the book. And you just mentioned, like, Freeville worked with me for four months. A lot of times, leaders don't wanna spend the time here because and you alluded to in in the story with Michael. He's like, I don't have time for this because I got things to do. They don't wanna work on this. Like, you know, or if they do, it's okay. I'll give

you four weeks. I'll give you four sessions or whatever six sessions, and I'm gonna work on one, two, three, four, and we're just gonna knock these out because that's how they're used to operating when it comes to getting like, the goal is to get it done. And I realized that for myself, I had fallen into that even with this launch recently. It's like, I'm trying to get things done. I gotta do some recordings and so forth. And I'm like, why do I hate them so much? Like, they just

I'm looking at them. I'm going, what is wrong with them? All the content's good. And I realized I'm like, put my coaching hat on, and I'm looking at it and the trainer hat on. And I'm like, it's because you're checking a box. You're like, you're just trying to get it done. And so the the the life, the the passion isn't in it, and so it's more mechanical. And and so when you're talking about purpose and vision and values, this takes time to unpack. How do you get a how do

you get a leader's attention enough? Because you can talk about the how, but I can just hear even executive coaches, you know, or aspiring executive coaches saying, like, how do you get them to actually stop and take the time? Or a leader listening to this saying, but I don't have time for that. I need, like, I need an answer now. Like, because I I need solutions yesterday. So, you know, a little

bit of how, the sausage is made. So, generally, when I work with clients and I come in, they're in a moment of transition, right, or transformation. And in my coaching work, what I do is I spend thirty minutes talking about issues that they're facing right now and thirty minutes talking about the authentic leadership model because I want to give them real value. I want them to have that next call. And so if I came in, I just said, hey. We're gonna talk about purpose and vision. At the end

of it, they're gonna say, yeah. They're gonna be like, well, that wasn't useful. So

so what I do and, also, like, you know, it's like one of those things I I learned as a rugby coach. You have to, coach to the needs of the client, not to your needs. Yeah. Right? So the needs of the client is they've got issues that they gotta deal with now. Yeah. Right? That's important to them. And so and and so making sure that you have that relationship with them that you can build over time.

So, yeah, thirty minutes on what are you facing right now, what are the issues that you're facing with, like, let's problem solve those together, and then thirty minutes on, on the authentic leadership model. But I've done some things. Like, I had a s senior vice president of, like, very large, you know, Fortune 200 company. You know, we had our first call in August, and then next call was canceled. Next call was canceled. Next call was canceled. Like, our next call

was in December. And I said, look. You know, I haven't invoiced anything. Because I'm not gonna invoice if you don't if you don't wanna do the work. And that's and and and by the way, no judgment here. I understand. And he said, no. I wanna do the work. And I said, alright. Then here's what I need you to do. Right? And and and you need to talk to your EA, and you need to talk to your boss who is supporting you on this and be like, the time that I have with Pete is will always be a

priority. And and we've had two calls so far this year, and they've sat there, and they haven't moved. I'm like, that's what like, but but, you know, I'm I'm fine. I would much rather walk away from a client that isn't gonna do the work Yeah. Then then try and get it done. I mean I mean, there's really three kinds of clients that I end up working with. There is, the client that does the work, and I go through the full process with them. And those people I normally end up continue

to work with over, like, multiple years. There's there's the other client who actually and this is great. Gets it halfway through. They're like, I did my model. You know, like, did you? And you start questioning, like, well, no. You you got it. You don't need me anymore. Like, halfway through the course, I'm like, you don't need me anymore. You got it. I'm here if you need help. But, like, for them, the system just worked, and it clicked.

And then I have the clients that checked the box. We did our six calls. We did our eight calls. And and, yeah, yeah, we checked the box, but, you know, I mean, you know what it's like to call. That doesn't fill my emotional tank. No. Right? It's not over there. Yeah. That it isn't why we do it. And and and and and I, you know, I take I take that personally. I

feel like I felt like I reflect on those clients quite a lot Mhmm. And say, what could I have done differently as a coach, which could have been, by the way, saying no. Right? Not doing the work. Just saying maybe you're just not ready. Yeah. Yeah. Not doing the work. But, yeah. No. It was like like so it is it's it's it's hard. And and and just like it is like, the the what I talk about doing with Michael is what I end up doing with most of my

clients. In fact, I had a a a recent, two years ago, a client, c suite executive, huge company, president of a very like like, a $5,000,000,000 business. Like, it's a big, big deal. And, couldn't find time to meet with me. Like, the calendar was out of place. And so exactly what I did with Michael, you just gotta find some time. But I remember calling up Jeff Tanner, who's in the book, and Jeff was the chief commercial officer at Smucker.

He's now, the CEO of Simply Good Foods. And I said, Jeff, how do you

manage your time? How do you decide if you're gonna be in a meeting or not? And he said, if the meeting isn't gonna move the stock price, I'm not in the room. I was like, He said, it's not worth my time to be in the room and make an idea 1% better. And I I I that was, like and I've used that phrase with so and it's really hit clients. So I use it in workshops. I do sort of maximizing your impact workshop. I mean, I I'm a huge believer from coaching.

When you coach and you're going to the Olympics or you're going to the World Cup, you have a limited amount of time with your athletes. Ten minutes wasted, you can't get back. It's a nonrenewable resource. Yeah. Leaders don't think like that about their time. Yeah. They use their time all over the place. And so getting the leaders that I work with to understand, look at your like, look like, often, I'll be like, show me your calendar or their chief of staff. I'll go through that

calendar. I'll be like, what's that? I'm like, alright. I want you to ask them if that's a good return on their investment. Is that worth an error of their time? Yeah. Right? I just want you to ask. Okay. I'll ask them. Is that worth? So I get the chief of staff or EA after they go through and be like, hey. We've highlighted these in red, these six meetings these weeks. And and it's not like I don't know if it's worth their time or

not. But just when often when you stop and you say, is that worth your investment? They'll be like, oh, no. That's not. Yeah. So Well, it's interesting too is that and this may be a a bad example, but sometimes so I've had stuff happen, like personal stuff, like, you know, deaths in the family and different things. Right. And it's and it's interesting what you're willing to cancel then when something happens. Yeah. Like, somebody gets

sick. Right? And they're like, I can't. I gotta be in all these meetings. But then all of a sudden, they get the flu, and they can't be in those meetings. And you know what? Life goes on. Right? Like, somebody else stepped in. Somebody else did it. And it's like, not that you wanna, you know, avoid the things are right. It's like, you you know, if you have that perspective, which is is way more fungible than we think. Way more fungible than we think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I, like like, I I so

that's one of the things I do with my clients. So I do a lot of work in professional services. So a lot of work with big four and large consulting firms. And Scott McDonald, who's the who was the CEO of Oliver Wyman, is one of the endorsers of the book. And, you know, I would say to Scott, Scott, if on Friday, a client said, hey. I need you to come and pitch a multimillion dollar business. Like, how how would your week look? Well, I'll cancel this this this and this. I'm like, okay.

So why did you cancel it? Like, if it's not that important, why is it on your calendar? Yeah. Right? And so I I think time and the way we think about time, I think, is so important. And I think if if if I can help my client think about time differently as a nonrenewable resource is really bad. The other thing we do, Nicole, is we discount time. So, you know, I'll call a client. I'll be like, hey. I wanna sell you something. Can you meet next week? They're like, my calendar's crazy. And

then I'll be like, oh, can you meet in May? And they're like, sure. Wide open. I'm like, hold on. A week before that time in May, is your calendar gonna be crazy or not? Like, why is that hour in May different than the hour now? Yeah. That should be valued the same. That was

great. You you pointed that out in the in the book. And I think that's a great point because a lot of times we look at it. Yes. So when the time comes, that's why we end up with all this busy busyness in our calendar because we booked it when it when our when our calendar wasn't too busy. Right. Like like thinking that somehow delusional, you know, delusionally thinking that it was not gonna be busy by the time we got there. So, yeah, it's really it's really being diligent

with, you know, is this important? How does this apply? Like, coming back to knowing your purpose, knowing your vision, knowing the value that you bring, the expectations, all of this is critical to being able to know what are your priorities, what to say yes to and what to say no to. There's a lot of entrepreneurs listening to this. And and, you know, I think about, like, it's not hard to say no to bad opportunities. Really, because, like, they they

kinda stand out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's hard is to say no to good opportunities that just aren't the right opportunity for you. Or mediocre opportunities. Or mediocre. It's kinda like me. You know? So, yeah, super, super important. You know, one of the really interesting things that I think that we haven't quite addressed and I know there's a is is like the post COVID work from home issue. And and and that issue is, we all started work when our commute started. So if I was

gonna if I my commute started at 07:30. I actually opened my laptop at 07:30. And then if my commute got me home at six, I closed my laptop at six. So we two things happened. One is we added, like, for many people, maybe two hours to their workday, and we lost the thinking time Yeah. Which we had on our commute, which it turns out was pretty valuable. Right? And so, so so I I

I I often have to work with clients on a virtual commute. Like, you know, if you're working for a big corporation, the easiest virtual commute is to shut your computer down. It's actually shutting it down. That's, like, starting it up again. It's gonna take fifteen minutes, and that's your commute. Right? Because it's gonna update things, and it's gonna do all these things. I'm like, that can be your commute. It's also a barrier to going back to work.

Like, if I can just lift my computer up and jump on, I'll go check emails. But if I have to lift it up and turn it on, like, I don't. That's a good one. Now I'm I'm on a Mac, so it's

a little bit easier on the Mac. But these are, like, the PCs for large corporations. So so so what I try to do is be like, don't fill your calendar. Like, it doesn't matter that you don't have anything else. If something and I love your your your, context is if it's a mediocre opportunity, even if you have time, cancel it. You can

use time. Like and that's and and and that's actually the the calculation that, leaders do make when they're forced to, which is, is it more important for me to get this work done that I have to get done, or is it more important for me to be on the call? Yeah. If I don't have deadlines for the work, I'm gonna be on the call. And that like, you should just choose whether you should be on the call or not regardless. If I don't have to be on the call, I shouldn't be on the call. Yeah.

That's so good. And I think yeah. I I think there's a real you know? And and, again, I think the work from home piece, everything and now everyone's online. I think it's really impacting the team dynamics that we have because it used to be that we'd meet in our team room, and we would chat for, like, ten minutes before we do the agenda. And now we get on our Teams calls or our Zoom calls. And, okay, item

one, we've lost all of that team connection that happens. Like, my team, we have about six or seven subcontractors that work with us. And so every week, we have a team call. It's thirty minutes. And twenty minutes is us answering some crazy question that my chief of staff comes up with. And in the last ten minutes, we're like, client needs business development and administration. Yeah. But the purpose of the meeting is the

first twenty. It's the first twenty. That's that's the purpose. But this this actually comes back to the authentic leadership model because, you know, I'm actually here with a client right now, and I was working through a team, and they're working through their authentic leadership model. And, you know, one of the team members came up with, like, hey. What I really wanna do is I wanna support the careers of my team. Like, great. Okay. When does that come up in your team meetings?

Yeah. But it doesn't. But if that's a priority for you, shouldn't it be in your team meetings? Shouldn't be where we like, it was just the intentionality Mhmm. Of taking something that's implicit, which is like, I always thought I needed to do this and make it explicit, which means how do I lead my team is Yeah. I think really powerful. And so, you know, thinking really intentionally about your meetings as a leader, I think, are really, really critical. Yeah. Absolutely. Nicole, you

asked me a question, and then I talked for, like, ten minutes. So I'll try to do it. This is this is great. There's so much that we could talk about. This is great. And that and this is really gets to the issue of of prioritizing your time based on, again, coming back to that purpose and vision and what's your value because we can get so busy. I think one of the problems also is that we get so busy with, things because it it makes us feel significant.

Right? Like, I've gotta be at that meeting. I've gotta be at that meeting. I've gotta do that thing because if I don't do it, it's not gonna get done well. But coming back to that earlier, you know, where we where we started talking about leadership styles is recognizing that what what led your led to your success at this point isn't what's gonna lead to your success. And the next one and knowing what are the needs of the role. I think that's really important. I think we can all

learn from that. And it's a good refresher, good reminder to continually go back and revisit. Like, I've done that for myself. It's like I challenge myself when I look at my schedule on a regular basis and go, okay. So is any of the is any of this filler? Like, do do I need to have these meetings? Like, what happens? I mean, you know, full disclosure. I did that even, like, last week looking at this week and looked at our meeting and said was like, okay. Is that something that's necessary?

Like, you know, and it's even I did the same thing. I did the same thing. I'm like, I'm at a client site. I I know this is gonna be squeezed, but I know we've been pushed off. And I'm like, no. This is a conversation I want to have, right, intentionally. And then that's where the yes. Exactly. That's where we are intentional about it. And speaking of which, I know that you've got a meeting starting in a few minutes as well. So we do wanna wrap it up. There's so much that we could

talk about here. You know, we talk about your We should start scheduling now for '20 for 2026 when our schedule's gone. But but but before we wrap up, Nicole, I did wanna just reflect on your journey Mhmm. Because this is ten years of podcast sphere. Yeah. Twenty twenty five. Right? Yes. It is. So, like like like, when you know, more than 500 podcasts, I mean, I mean, the conversations that you have had Yeah. Have been really remarkable and the

sustained excellence that you've had for ten years. I mean, you were podcasting probably when people didn't even know what podcasting was or most people, but it wasn't as maybe it wasn't as crowded a market as it is now. But that's a pretty impressive record Oh, thank you. Ten years and having the audience that that you have. And I'm sure it it came with a lot of learning. So so because this this is sort of like, I know you wanna rap and I need

to rap. No. It's okay. Yeah. But but it goes back to something that that

you said. You know? I I was interviewed for a podcast last year, and it was a sports podcast because of my coaching background. And they said, what, you know, what what made you a good coach? I've been retired for a couple of years, and I'm like, oh, I wasn't a good coach. But, like, what do you mean? I said, I'm I I I look back now, and I look back at like, I could have been such a better coach. If I coach tomorrow, I'll be a better coach than I was then. And I think that is

the that's really what great leadership is. Great leadership is a desire to be better tomorrow than you are than you are today. And to do that, you need to find a way to continually get feedback. So when I look at you and I see, fifth like, 10 of of excellence, like, it would be interesting to get the story from you about what you were like ten years ago and what you are today and the growth you have been through. Probably not for this podcast, but that would be an

interesting podcast. You should bring on your favorite guest to interview you about the ten years. Well, actually, it's funny because I had a guest, who interviewed me in episode I think it was a hundred and seven, a friend of mine, Evan Money, because he's like, Nicole. You know, he's such a funny guy. He's like, Nicole, the best podcast hasn't been recorded yet. And I said, oh, what's that? And he goes, you know, you recorded you know,

interview you. So he actually did interview you, which was fun. But it's been a long time. So, yeah, maybe I'll I'll I'll I'll do that. But it's interesting because you said, like, people didn't know what podcasting was back then. I didn't know what podcasting was back then when I first had this this inspired thought. And so it, it has been a journey, and it has been such a pleasure. And I was kinda chuckling because you're like, wow.

You know, 500 episodes and so forth. And then what did we start off today with the podcast? Like, I'm juggling in, like, one moment, disorganized and so forth. And that's not usually the way it goes, but you can't do 500 plus episodes like that. Can't sustain that. But I just thought that was funny because I'm like, and you got to see the background of what how it how we get to this point. But, Peter,

thank you so much. There's so much more that we could talk about here. Innovation is something that you you talk a lot about. And so I'm just gonna actually encourage our listeners and our viewers to go and, number one, get a copy of your book, Leadership Shock, and it's everywhere, you know, that that books are available. Also, your website, petesteinberg.com and innovative-thought.com to learn

more. And I know you've got lots of resources on there where they can learn about how, you work with clients to help them to develop solutions to complex problems and all of that. And so I just encourage them to go and, you know, and learn more about that there if that is something that if there if you got a complex issue, whether it be from a leadership standpoint or even business standpoint, I would encourage you to

go and check out what Peter has available. And then, Peter, yeah, we're gonna have to have you back on to continue this conversation at a later date next next year or hopefully in the next decade. So but, anyway, thank you so much, Peter. I appreciate it. And, yeah, any final thoughts before we wrap up? No. Just, really appreciate the conversation. Love having conversations about leadership, and, appreciate the support for the book. Look forward to the next one, Nicole. Likewise. Likewise.

And for I'll just finish off with our, our audience here. I'm just gonna say this. Leaders of transformation, take action. So take action on something you learned today. I encourage you that if you do not know what your purpose, your vision, your priorities, your value is, go figure it out. It's gonna make a difference. It's gonna make a huge difference

for your life. Peter can help you. His team can help you with that. You know, there's resources as I said through the book, but go and do that because it's gonna make a huge difference for you this year and for years to come. You've gotta get that sorted out if you haven't already. And if you have a think you have it sorted out, maybe it's time to revisit that. So I encourage

you to do that. We'd love to hear, from you how you do you know, how this is how this has impacted you, how we can support you in that, any insights. You can go on leadersoftransformation.com and find us there. And, thanks for being here today. We look forward to seeing you next week on another episode of the Leaders of Transformation. Bye bye.