Is the LCMS on Mission? with Pastor Steve Sohns

Each podcast confronts real-time struggles facing the local church and a post-Christian culture . Step into the action with the ULC at uniteleadershiporg . This is Leigh Time .

I pray that the joy of the Lord is your strength and I'm just so pumped to hang out today , jack , what's giving you joy as we enter into our conversation today ? This ?

And you know we're so thankful for all the efforts I mean it's been a huge labor of love for people here for their generosity and their time to get this thing done .

Pastor Sones was a pastor at Resurrection in Spring , texas , for 33 years , a Lutheran church Missouri Synod pastor right outside of Houston . I got to hang out with Steve a little bit when I was at the National Youth Gathering a couple of years ago . He recently retired . We're going to talk about refiring , not retiring , and how that transition took place .

So so grateful . So , yeah , steve , how you doing today , man , thanks for hanging with us on lead time .

And so you take the experience of being in Houston for 33 years , involved with PLI , coaching , teaching , mentoring , involved with church planting , having a dad who , at 90 years old , still is excited about the mission , so much so that he wrote the great sending , and I have to make sure people know how they can get that .

Later , and also right now , we're working on a follow up of 52 Bible studies from Genesis revelation about God sending impetus for mission .

And so when I see all of that together and my , my ability to work with churches because of my capital of relationships , every day is just a great day to get up and say God , what you have in front of me , so it's just a fun time of life .

The new Constitution bylaws some gosh about 20 years ago Now , isn't that right , steve ?

We just simply had missionaries from all over the world traipsing through our house . Dad has always been such a super theologian , but his theology and his focus has always been on that . That is a means , not an ends , and so it's a means for mission , and it's a means for getting the gospel out and training up leaders , and that's what gets me fired up .

I slow down , you know . He gets talking about what we're doing and what he wants to see done , and see the Missouri Synod just burst open with mission . It's exciting , I have to say . Though , when I grew up , and when people come and ask me after church , so you're going to be a pastor , I was like no .

But what happened , I think , over time , as I got engaged in a campus ministry at Wyoming , as God continued to draw my heart towards the white field of the mission I had , I couldn't say no any longer , so I dropped the accounting and MBA idea and went full force into how can I lead people as a pastor into the mission field ?

I don't know , I don't know what other desire would be compelling that . That is why I , that's why I do it , jack , that's why you're connected to this . I just want more people to know and follow Jesus , but sometimes it feels like there could be some other other desires at play . Jack , any take on that ?

Because it seems to me like people need to hear like they have permission to actually be on mission , like somebody is actually giving them permission to do that , because they feel like , oh , this isn't , maybe this isn't my job . What are your thoughts on that ?

We should be the best at this , because our theology on vocation indicates that everything we do , we don't have to be a pastor , dce , whatever Our life in vocation opens up opportunities every day to be on the mission from God and , that being the case , what I've seen is more and more people just seeing their vocation as a teacher , student , at the soccer field

, at the swimming club , races and all those things . Those are the opportunities for us to be the mission of God in our neighborhood , but not only our neighborhood but our church's neighborhood , and that the greater neighborhood of into the world is there .

So you know , when you asked me earlier about what wakes me up , I think too , is just watching people understand that and begin to live it and get excited about it .

I think we should be enthusiastic to make Jesus known and emotions are a gift of God to be stewarded by the spirit of God . But we're skeptical of emotions getting out of out of hand , out in the way , if you will Stephen anything to say toward that .

How can you not be excited about being first of all , as many people heard the gospel yesterday and worship service I'm saved , I belong to the Lord , I'm living heaven today to be unveiled forever when he comes back . What's not exciting about that ? You know , jesus' picture of a wedding feast that will have no end , that's exciting .

And so I don't think we have to be afraid of emotion when it comes to the response and the consequence of faith and to realize that God's called us into that . One of the things we use kind of a remind us of our role , kind of in our MyCircles , is we have a 10 or two prayer .

I don't know if you're familiar with that , but we set our alarms to go off every morning at 10 or two because Luke 10 to says look to the harvest , it's white pray , not just pray , but pray earnestly , intentionally , specifically for the Lord to send workers into his harvest field .

And to me that's just exciting when you see that God already has people set aside . I don't think I'm praying to say where are they ? God knows where they are . It's let's discover them and release them . And , by the way , I'm one of those workers too , and so the essence of who I am even is not a pastor , it's a husband , a father , a neighbor .

I have more opportunities now because our neighbors around us are part of our mission field and we get pretty stoked about that .

So what did you do while you were in the parish to kind of consistently place yourself in spaces where you'd bump into folks who don't know Christ ?

several Bible studies , several things , and one of the things was Mike Breen's book and his shapes . And when we looked at the up , which is our relationship to God , our in , our relationship to the found and our out , we stared at each other and said I don't know anybody who's not Christian .

So we challenged each other that by next week when we come together , we'll figure out a way to get out of the office , get out of our own head , and meet people . And naturally , the next week we came together . We said how did you do ? We said , yeah , I'm still good with God , I'm good with people . I have no idea how to connect with people .

So we just kept asking that

question when are you connecting ? Where has God put people in front of you ? And we both began coming up with some answers to that . And as that continued to happen , what happened ? I just had to open my eyes . They were all around me . I just wasn't being intentional about it .

I also had to stop being so involved with the found that I didn't look at the name . For us . It's the neighbors who live next door . It could be a neighbor who was on the bleachers with you , but we were very intentional and continue to be intentional with the people who were around us .

And just a silly little thing Every time we go out to eat almost every time it's not too noisy I asked the waiter or waitress what can we pray for you ?

In Fascinating results out of that , I mean the kind of conversations that come out of you want to pray for me , and it's just fun to be able to not come in and say I'm going to share the gospel with you . I want to find out what your need is and how can I meet that .

It should lead us to be just very eager to share the gospel with people , to just let them know that God is their friend , it's not their enemy . He loves them .

I think we think about it as we were running away from the European Union and all these things that were going on , but he saw us as being called into mission and that's why we existed here . We need to have that fervor too .

And well , let's start schools , let's start churches , let's go on mission to different people , groups . That was the heart of the growth in multiple iterations . So shout out to Gospel . Dna by your district president , michael Newman Wonderful , wonderful history of how we started to grow and everything rises and falls on Jesus .

And then leaders , especially in formative years , making bold statements and CFW Walther you cannot read him and not see mission jump off every single page right and not compromising our Lutheran confessions not even in the slightest . That's the best way for our Lutheran confessions to come alive .

We were at Jack and I were at a inter-carrigational kind of ecumenical gathering this past week and there was a pastor from Denver who was speaking and we don't agree on everything that this pastor said .

But one thing he did say that was shocking he was a late in life convert is that I'm surprised that pastors even have to talk about sharing their faith with their members . That seems like something we shouldn't have to do because Jesus has become all in all to them .

The story of salvation by grace through faith freely given through the work of Christ is just so compelling that I can't not help . And that's what we see in the book of Acts . Right , you can't stop us . This is in me , it's got to get out of me . Oh , for that sort of evangelical fervor to take place once again in our church body .

Anything more to add to that , jack ? I see you leaning in there , baby or Stephen , go ahead .

And I think we've seen a problem not just of Lutheran pastors , but I think you know any pastor to say do as I say , not as I do , versus really modeling and living out the Christian life , the Christian walk , the Christian faith in terms of sharing Jesus Christ .

So what are generally faulty perceptions of pastors that you'd like just the everyday follower of Jesus who are in our worship spaces to rightly understand ?

And I hated the fact that the Texans lost yesterday , I'm glad the Broncos won but it's the idea that churches as all of us sitting in the bleachers watching a few people work themselves to death on the field , and I think we push that perception even in the LCMS where we install and ordain people . If you read all those questions , it says what will you

do ? What will you do ? What will you do ? And then we look at the congregation and say will you watch him do this ? Will you watch him do this ? Will you watch him do this ? And then we pretty much say good luck , we're praying for you and go on your way . And the perception that the pastor is there to do ministry is a mistake .

I even think about Luther again . He spent his time teaching and training .

His table talks was to build and send more people into the harvest field , and some of even the reminder I can't remember well my worship classes , but it seems like there was an idea that the pulpit was always on the north side of the church , no matter where it really was or not why it was a reminder to people that those who needed Jesus were to the north

, it was the Huns and the whatever . And so the reminder , even in worship , was it's not about here , it's now , as you are going , and I think the faulty perception is we come , we gather , tell us how we need Jesus , which we do . But to do well , I think , is to take that and say how now are you going to take that great gift that God has given ?

you of grace by faith , and how are you set with that gospel ? And the faulty perception is we call the pastor to do this for us . Therefore , we've paid missionaries to go out into the world and do this Instead of wait a minute . They're here to help us be doing this . There's so much power and prepositions .

But let me make one comment before I give it to you , jack , I mean , what you just said is so huge , it's not for because we still have a high view of the office of holy ministry right , this is not discounting the office of holy ministry , but it's with , and that's just the incarnational presence of Christ , right , I mean , he came in and did life with us

, called his disciples to come along with him rather than doing it all for them . So that dance and watching prepositions is so huge from the doer to developer type of move . Jack , go ahead , yeah .

It also has to be a training ground , a place for equipping people to go out and share the good news with people . So you know , yes , care for the souls , equip the saints right . How well are we actually doing at equipping the saints to share the gospel ? How confident does your typical congregant feel they are Like ?

Do they feel well equipped to actually share the gospel ? Do they know how to like , in a very short and succinct way , share the gospel with their friends and neighbors ? Are they able to articulate that they probably want to right , but do they feel confident to do that ?

And are we actually investing in a way that actually equips the congregation to do that , or do we expect only the pastor to do that ? I think that is the area where we need to like rethink the role of the pastor . Yes , the pastor is a caregiver . He also must be an equipper , an ascender right .

That's the church when it's operating the healthiest in the community .

They go to the hospital so they can get better and go out and live life . So that's what we want to quit people for .

I think part of what we've tried to do and it's not even a system as much as is taking people who are doing it and sharing stories so that people see that and go oh , I can do that and in some ways reminding them that the first part of it is not .

I don't think as Lutherans we have to be I'm going to corner somebody and throw the gospel down their throat . How about being like Jesus , where we listen in , where we find out , where you know , like a physician , you try to understand what is the issue . So I've always loved it's relationship .

It's relationships absolutely , and so I always loved telling stories . Years and years ago we had a hundred-plus-year-old lady who was in a nursing home . She went door to door , room to room , got to know people and she always talked about the old people at that place .

Well , she was older than all the old people but you know , she just lived life and people could tie in because everybody knew Miss Judy I love telling stories about . We have a young man right now who's thinking about being a church planter .

Well , it started by him just engaging in some places where he said I can hang out with a bunch of guys who want to be better husbands and if they get to know me and I get to know them somewhere there they're going to say why do you do this ? And it's not a hard answer . Or you find out why .

Jesus , with the woman at the well , he asked her questions , he found out what was going on in her life , and so for us it's been walking with people . You have people walk with you . I mentioned the silly story about asking waiters to pray what we can pray for . So when we go out to eat , it amazes me a little bit .

People will say it changed me radically to see you asking people what prayers they need and I thought , well , that's really simple , it's not a real significant thing , but the fact that they said , wait a minute , we're not just here to eat , god , maybe put us on a track to meet this person today .

There's something in my life where I just need to open my eyes to the people around me and so when you find people getting curious , they're saying wait , maybe there's more . I think , as a leader , what you do , you love everybody in your congregation , but you pour into the people who get it and want to get out and do it .

But if you can ask the right questions , whether it's a coaching situation , mentoring or for a congregation , I think that's where you can shape culture . So , again , going back , if you go back far enough , when I started thinking about my refinement , I kept thinking when am I going to leave this congregation in terms of their DNA for the next generation ?

So I started asking the question if we were gone tomorrow , who would miss us ? Who would miss this congregation ? If we just ceased existing ? Who would miss us ? And , of course , the natural answer came back Well , we would . Okay , great , we would miss us . I'm happy to hear that . But would anybody know about us ?

Because if you go around your own church and say where's Resurrection Lutheran Church ? You will be shocked to find out people that are half a block away will go . I have no idea , because it's not just us , it's just they have blinders on . And so you know , we started doing that and I'll tell a little longer story here .

We had a flood with Harvey in 2017 . Our house got 38 inches of water than local school did , and what that forced us to do is we asked that question was to look at the businesses nearby who needed help . It meant looking at the school that was flooded and helping them .

It meant looking at the assisted living facility next door and continuing to ask people who have gifts for that to go in and help . So at the school , at first we had a pushback from the principal and then , once we kind of got past all that , one day she said are you just like adopting us ? And I said absolutely . And so she said what does that mean ?

I said that means there is no no in my vocabulary . You ask for it , you get it . So we began to send mentors , we began to serve breakfasts and lunches to the teachers . We have a t-shirt that says we can do more together .

That is a piece that every teacher wants , because every Friday they get to wear that for Dress Down Friday and they walk around in four different colors of our shirt that we can do more together . And so what happened over time is when anything would happen , we didn't have talk about us , this principal would talk about us . We didn't want that , but she did .

And what happened ? There was this sense of community that not only were we known , but we became a center , because when we went to businesses they didn't ask us what do you want out of us ? Like , churches want discounts . They knew we were going to pay full price and more to get their pizzas to the school .

We were going to buy tickets for the Home Depot and not ask them for a discount on lumber . We were going to do things to connect them with each other . And so the cool thing is , once you open up the neighborhood and they recognize who you are , it becomes just a great place to be , because now you've asked the right question if we're missing .

And so this principal because of COVID , she retired . They couldn't have a party for her . So we invited her to our church and the new principal , they told all the families to come online or show up , and when we were done giving her a check and all these things and flowers , she said I want to say something . I thought , oh , oh .

So we handed her the mic and she says you know , all these years Pastor Steve has asked this question if resurrection wasn't here , who would miss you ? Because she came online and she said I want to tell you at LEM Elementary we would . That said more to the people of resurrection than I could ever say , but it's the right question .

So in my last couple of years I shifted the question to say not only that , but if you moved tomorrow from your neighborhood , who would miss you ? So to me , leadership is asking the right questions .

Secondly , and also be shorter than that conversation , but I think pastors and this is church planters especially , but every pastor needs to exegete better , and I don't mean just the scriptures , but exegete your community . And exegete means to draw out of what is happening . What is the meaning here , what is going on ?

If you don't know your community , you can't fill the needs of the people who are there .

And so I think the third thing , and you could take any order on the importance but especially as a leader , you have to talk about the vision so much you think people are sick of hearing about it , and so it's partly in questions , but partly it's just stating over and over and again , especially using stories . You want to use stories that talk about .

This is how the vision is lived out , and this is the examples of where we see it , where it becomes commonplace and people who even might be a little slow on it go well . I guess this is what people do here . So we've had people who've left before , who've said I don't really want to be in church . That has expectations for me .

Well , we didn't tell them you had to do it . But when they're surrounded by people who are doing it , they feel guilty enough to say I want to be in a church and I've heard these very words . I want to go and be in a church where I can sit in the back and nobody bothers me . God go with you . He loves you too . He loves you too .

But as a leader , I want people to at least have to make a decision , not a decision for faith Don't make me a decision theologian but make a decision what kind of church do you want to be a part of ?

So if you want to grow as a leader and a lot of what starts there as leadership essentials is leading from within is really the picture there . So that's a place . So it can be a place . It can be a person Doesn't have to be a pastor .

I can tell you , at Resurrection one of the best people at reading a room and asking questions is our early childhood director . She's amazing . If you want to hang out , don't hang around me , go hang out with her .

Another little shout out if you ever want to go through the coaching journey We've talked a lot about coaching as a practice If you do any kind of coaching training , that kind of really really helps you nail down the types of questions that get different sorts of , because it really is a funnel in terms of the art of question asking not just for interviews , but

in helping a person on their journey with Jesus toward self-discovery . From the imaginative like top of the funnel , what would this be like all the way down to and what next steps would you like to take ? I think it's fascinating the various types of churches .

Going back to what you said about some people leaving , we've had that same thing here and this is that you're a challenging church and I think a lot of times as Lutherans we wrestle with that because it can feel like law . So let me ask this how did you resist the now go , do this from shaping resurrection as a legalistic community ?

And I know the intent always is you've been freed up now by the gospel to go and love your neighbor

and some lifelong Lutherans who are used to law gospel preaching as we're closing . Every you're a sinner and now Jesus has saved you , figure it out . But we're not going to give you much in terms of figuring out what that looks like . Challenge per se . So , yeah , how did you keep that call to active faith from becoming legalistic , stephen ?

I'm sure I did a poor job .

Oh , I can , I can do that , and so I think the shaping again is just you lift up the stories that show that , what God is doing in people's lives and how they take , thrust it out there .

If all your stories are , for instance , Sunday morning , if all your prayers are praying for Aunt Susie's bunions and we're praying for , you know , someone's dog who's got rabies or something , you know how all those prayer requests come in pray , missional prayers , pray for what God is doing , pray for the neighbor who needs to hear about Jesus .

We have a Lord of the Harvest .

And they said to this other couple hey , why don't you come and join us and we're just going to hang out with people Relationships , as Jack said earlier . You know , so I don't have to go . Hey , go out and do this , you just encourage and you cultivate the field where it's happening and then you invite . You know Jesus kind of used .

We use law , gospel , which is great , but also invitation challenge , I think , is something that's in the Bible . We see Jesus doing that with his disciples . But we don't have to do it legalistically . I think it's done with invitation , the invitation God loves you and come and join . You know , come , follow me , I will make you fishers of men .

Is that a law statement or a gospel statement ? I think it was gospel .

Sometimes we can be a little reluctant to instill solid systems that lead us our culture is to be stronger , for people not to slip through the proverbial crack and systems that can mobilize us for gospel , effectiveness and mission . So talk about some of those systems and how did they kind of evolve to over your 30 plus years , especially resurrection ?

But we talk about spiritual capital . What is it in terms of that praying to the Lord of the harvest and how we can best see the spiritual capital in our own lives ? And then , when people have questions about that , we can point out the 1002 prayer , we can point out particular groups and , in a sense , determine what is your training need .

Relational capital very high is again , relationships , relationships , relationships with harvest , partnership , and I'll just kind of send this over here .

We talk about that because we're planting churches and we use phrases like no planter left behind , high accountability , low control , plant pregnant , which means we don't just plant something so it exists , but so it will multiply .

But all those things are really based on relationship is it's really easy to write a check and send somebody out and say go , do this and they're dying on the vine . So we want people to be keyed into their relationships with each other . Their relationships in our harvest partnership with our planters are so important to us . We will do what this is .

Again , it's a yes If you need me to preach for you . Yes , if you want us to take your kids . Yes If we need to come to your house in the middle of the night because of an emergency . Yes , it's that you can trust us . And then we want that to become a system where people see that lens , that relationships are the key with the spiritual Capital .

In terms of the harvest partnership , what we do is we come together , often Zoom calls or in person or in a retreat annually with people who want to multiply , and so what I find is I've never planted a church . My dad did .

I've never planted a church , but I'm the old goat who brings understanding about governance , constitution do you think a church planner cares about a constitution ? And so it's not a system as much as it is resources . So the system is to resource people .

As you look through the lens of the spiritual capital , intellectual capital , relational capital , physical capital For us , physical capital for the church which is reaching Telugu people is having a building to be in . The physical capital for my friend down in Porter is that my time is yours .

So you never say I'm sorry when you call me , because that's a capital that you always have and financial capital is to you . Know that teacher I mentioned earlier . We can do more together . For us the system is partnership . So we want to partner people within the church to grow . So if I meet somebody I want them to partner with somebody .

It's constantly connecting people and then in churches it's never resurrection , never plants by itself . We always plant with one to three more churches because guess what ? We can do more together . And the systems happen when each church brings their own strengths into it and as those strengths come together and we send people together , it just kind of adds .

So it's not a system . I know you ask about systems , but I'm thinking more in terms of lenses and how people look at their own life and then how we look at our church life and then how we look at our planting life . And so those five capitals anybody ever wants to write me and say , could you send me more ?

I'd be thrilled to send you just to the Harvest Partnership website or things I have . They talk about those capitals .

Are they actually using them to their fullest right , which is a great challenge for them ? I was fascinated . You use the term relational capital , right ? That's something I think about a lot when it comes to evangelism , right , going out inviting a friend to church , it may or may not work , but many friends will say yes if they come .

You know if invited by a person who's trusted , but if it's a stranger , you know . If you're just a stranger on the corner and you're just saying come to church , well , no , thank you . Right , I don't know you , I don't trust you . Why should I care about your invitation to church ?

And so a lot of things that the church can do , a lot of the programs that this is how we think about it in our own context is we're trying to build relational equity with people . We're trying to build that relational capital .

So when an invitation to church happens , that's actually a meaningful thing If you just put an ad out there in a stranger season ad come to church . That's one thing .

But if you just worked eight weeks to help repair a marriage that was going off the tracks in a marriage class and you just built that relationship with that couple and then you say , hey , if you don't have a church home , you come check us out , that's a really different . That's a really different ask , a really different type of conversation .

I don't know , Tim , if you find this to be the case , but people may not know much about you , but you move in the neighborhood and the word gets around . He's a pastor , yeah , and it creates a wall , and so we've had to break down those walls by just having picnics in our backyard .

Our greatest evangelism tool here is our vast array of red wines and inviting people in .

I had a Super Bowl party one time where this guy from France , a backdoor neighbor , and his wife he's agnostic at best and she's a spiritualist and they showed up and said we'll be here for 10 minutes and then he went back and saw our French wine and he said aha , and they left five hours later .

I mean it's amazing how friendships and even before inviting people to church , just invite them in and hang out with them , and pastors need to do that first , because I find our own members go . How do you have a party ? And I'm like that's not hard Get food , get drank and invite people . But we , at least we here in Houston , live in isolated neighborhoods .

People are isolated behind their fences , their gates and their doors .

We have Mormons that are around us , lds , my Muslim neighbor right next door , which , by the time this airs , I will have gone to their one of their family members wedding , which is going to be , which is going to be very , very interesting , but we're trying to develop good relationships with them . And then we've got some kind of disenfranchised Christians .

And then right next door to us , to our left , is a family that joined our church , and so when , when that party took place , it was , it was just people treated us strangely , and then you had to work in intentionally to kind of lower yourself because they didn't feel like they could fully be themselves .

And so my , my best evangelical place is the golf course . I've been a golfer my whole life and so developed relationships with a lot of , a lot of men , many of them far from the Lord , and we just get into spiritual conversations just about every round , but I don't , I don't force it . They , they swear around me .

Now there's , you know , they're , they're full self around me , um , and and so then , when stuff happens in their life a mom dies , um , I'm there , I'm their friend and then I get to be their their pastor too .

But that takes a lot of intention and it's not a neat and tidy kind of kind of journey because of a lot of the baggage people have and the mistrust even that many in our culture have of of religious leaders , right .

Steve , could ask you a lot , a lot more questions , but you've you've talked a lot about harvest partnership and what the Lord is doing . A harvest partnership is a model for church planning that I have been yearning for , um in our district and I think could be helpful in many , many districts . Tell us about it and what the Lord's up to .

And so we just it's truly a partnership . We don't have a 501 C three , we don't have a checking account , it's just churches saying we don't care who gets credit , let's do this together and we kind of alternate it with Christ the King . King would , and who calls which guy . And so they called Seth Coonsie to go to Porter .

We called Mark and Laura Pulliam to come to Lazarus . They called Trey Sanson , we called Paul Corabondi . They were going to . We'd like to call . We have all the stuff in place If we can find a church planter who has that DNA , who has that burning desire to start something new .

We have two places where we have people meeting , people engaging , and we don't have a planter yet . And that's okay because , guess what ? We have people engaging . We have people gathering who are doing the gospel work in their neighborhood .

We have churches around Houston who are connected to us and so our direct connections are kind of in this way we engage all five capitals and so what happens in people that we are most closely in the core

? We give them a three-year runway where we cover their salary and benefits so that they become sustainable and they are engaged with us full on in those five capitals . That time , and so far , by the grace of God , they've all become sustainable . Not only that , they are sending money and engaging in planting churches .

One of our church plants also has now a Latino pastor who's trying to reach an area that we expect a quarter of a million Latinos from Central and South America and that planter is engaging that as well as one of our plants that we want another planter .

So we're seeing a movement , not because we want it , but just seems like God's creating this movement and there's a hungering for that because people have heard about us from around the United States . So we had a guy come on from Missouri . We got a guy from Louisiana , michigan , wisconsin , alaska .

I don't know if they're planting , but they want to be on our call and people are just saying you know God's doing something and as long as you're open to supporting us , can we come on board , and so Harvest Partnership is just really an encouraging group of congregations .

Anybody can come , anybody can share , and our planters get together to talk about nuts and bolts a couple of times a month , but we're just there to help others , and so it helps to be in a district .

Texas District also helps and says you know you're , we're not going to plant churches , you do it , but we'll come alongside you , and so Harvest Partnership is just really a conglomeration of churches . I think , doing what Sinit was intended to do , and , as other churches have seen this happening , we're having them say hey , we can do this too .

So the church that we want to plan and will us is actually going to be a partnership when the guy comes . We've already been putting the money aside between ourselves and our granddaughter in terms of a church plan , and they are so excited about this that we can do that together , and so I just get . You know your first question .

I get fired up because just God's bringing opportunities . But I love to have a church planter there , sure , but is it more jazzing to see God's people getting together , inviting and saying we don't have to have a guy with a clergy diploma yet ? Sure , get out there , let's spread the gospel , let's do what Jesus wants us to do .

So God will bring us the right person at the right time , and that's okay .

Let's see churches like yourself getting engaged with schools and ways to bring people into being trained . We're doing some things with that as well , and even partnering with you in terms of pathways and ministry .

The great sending book isn't the book for all people , I realize , but it gives a great way for people to sit down and so you can go to the greatsendingorg and there's lots of resources . If you write me at StevenSones at gmailcom and say we'd like a box of books , I'll send you 44 books for the shipping cost of 50 bucks .

They're yours until supplies are gone .

If you have an interest in talking I can't guarantee I'll answer , because weird phone numbers you usually ignore , but if you call me 832-656-5628 , if you want to gripe at me or if you want to say how can you help us , we're here to resource , we've got capitals , we have equity , we have things that God's called us into , and I think of the Missouri Senate

instead of looking at each other sideways . If we can become a help and a resource to one another , that's a great thing , and so my prayer is you know , grassroots , it's taking what's working and not replicating it , but taking the DNA of how that works where you are exegeting , where you are at , and then using what God has for you to use .

The Lord is using you and your network in such beautiful ways . It's an honor to call you a friend , jack . Great work as always . This is lead time sharing . It's Karen . If you want to subscribe , comment wherever it is you take in podcasts and we promise to have , hopefully , soul enriching , joy filled conversations with leader like StevenSones .

Thanks so much , steven and Jack . Good work , thank you .

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