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It's a hotter than usual summer day. I'm pulled over on this side of the road, confirming an address in Google Maps as I try to figure out how to get to my destination. I see I've come to the south of Belgium, to a small village where I'm meeting Morgan. But we're off to a slow start, just.
Arriving here now.
In the village where Dania lives, and it happens to be a big village and party going into ville. The entire village is cordoned off for a summer festival. Hundreds of people are gathered for a re enactment of an eighteenth century military parade. The soldier's uniforms and cobbled streets are a site right out of Napoleon's time. Military parade with something old military Napoleon style. I have to admit
it all feels a bit surreal. I meet Morgan in the center of the village and we weave our way through the re enactment, headed towards an address just minutes away. For me, it's the culmination of months of work from Morgan. It's years of investigation that land us at this doorstep. The stakes are high because we're about to come face to face with a man who may well be the Butcher of Moss.
I can't belie mysteriously.
As they disappearance of a woman from mont.
A condition of the victims was sickening.
And the question remains, where is the killer?
From Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts, I'm your host, Matt Graves and this is Lea Monstre Season two, The Butcher of Moss. Our investigations into a man named George, who you'll recall Morgan tracked down led us to believe that he was the man seemingly stalking Jacqueline, identifying George led us to another man, who are calling Danielle, And what we've learned about Danielle does not disappoint. It started with a conversation at Le Metropol between George and Danielle that
was also overheard by Madame Ganche. In this conversation, Danielle was said to have shown his hands to George and stated something the effect of I have blood on my hands or these hands have killed more than once. As mentioned, George reported this conversation to the police and Danielle was
summoned to the Gendarmerie for an interview. Instead of being surprised by the judicial police who were actually investigating the case, we believe at the time between the initial summons and the interview was two to three days.
The judicial police learned that the Gendarmerie issued a summon to daniel and they arranged it so they could take over the interview. So they actually went to the Gendarmerie and picked him up when he arrived there and took him to their station where he was interrogated.
Alison que what struck the.
Investigators first of all was his attitude. He was being questioned about a particularly atrocious series of crimes, and he didn't seem to take any offense to it. They were expecting that he would p the test is in a sense that he would be outraged at the idea that he could be a suspect, but it wasn't that at all. He was particularly calm and in full control of his emotions.
Upon learning that he was being questioned about the trash bags full of body parts, he said, let the chess game begin. They felt like he was taunting them, which certainly roused their suspicions. They obtained a warrant to search his residence, and the more they investigated, the more suspicious they became. Okay, we are just left the Rue de vande Velde and were approaching a house that we think one of the suspects was living in at the time.
I'm standing in front of the house that Danielle lived in at the time of the murders. We're on the street where the bodies were dropped off on the twenty second of March. If you go about five hundred meters away from that place and you land right in front of this house. The particular thing about this house is that there is a garage opening on the side of the house, because this is you know, we're in the center of Europe here, so all of the houses are
joined because there's no backyards or anything like that. So we're on a sidewalk and there's like a row of houses that are all joined next to each other, and you have a one of the houses that has sort of a side garage where you could drive in and then around the back where someone could discreetly drop off bodies.
Must let's be clear. So the thought is that what he could have very easily done would be to drive a car down this road, turn into this garage here, and then just turn around the corner and be completely hidden from anyone or anything. And this is pretty much the only house in this street that you could do that with. And so if it does turn out to be where he was living at the time, that's quite interesting for you. When police searched his house, it was
apparently spotless. They even went to the lengths of stripping out his plumbing, presumably looking for blood or other evidence of disposal. What they found instead was that his pipes had apparently been cleaned with acid. They even searched his utility records which showed that he'd consumed unusually high amounts of water the previous year. His computer was also searched, but the hard drive had recently been wiped clean it.
Forensic specialists were able to recuperate the deleted files, which included a digital sex game, pornographic videos, and, most worryingly, nude photos that Daniel had taken of a woman. The pictures appeared to investigators to be more like an anatomic study than pornography, including close ups of intimate body parts. There were no photographs of the victims found. They also obtained a warrant to search his workplace and cross references
schedule with the crimes. Employee records indicated that he was never at work when the disappearances occurred. Apparently, he kept his call throughout the interviews, with the exception of one moment. Frederic Law explainski.
Particular moment he was completely in control of his emotions during the interrogation, which surprised the investigators. Lucal moment and the only moment where he lost his nerve was when the confronted him with the testimony of two servels from bars near the train station who said they saw him together with one of the victims, in this instance, Martin Bud and he lost his cal He flew off the handel and insulted them. It was the only moment that he completely changed his attitude.
Danielle categorically denied having known any of the victims, and police were never able to validate that he did. However, we've recently collected compelling new testimony from Madame Ganche that she never shared with police. She said she never shared it because she was so annoyed by being accused herself that she stopped speaking with the police altogether.
You know what, I'm going to tell you something. I had daniel here one evening Champ He came to get a room with Natalie.
She explains that Danielle rented a room with a victim, Natalie Godar, at her hotel Metropolis.
He came in here and walked straight up to me and asked for a room. He was wearing a trench coat like people wore at that time, a greenish trench coat, and he asked for a room for him and his guest Jack, and I thought, what's he doing with her? It was right around that time, nineteen ninety six, because she was dead a few weeks later, I received them here. At least once. I didn't see him fitting with her. The couple didn't go together. Natalie was tall, but well,
she wasn't all that much. She never wore makeup, and she drank her beers and that was enough for her. And he was a tall and handsome man.
I asked her if she was sure it was Danielle.
Yes, Yes, it was daniel Yes, a tall and elegant man. It was him.
In nineteen ninety six, Danielle was thirty five years old. He worked as a machine technician at an industrial company where he mostly did shift hours and would frequently get off at around ten pm and then spend the entire night out drinking in the train station neighborhood. Multiple witnesses from the bar and hotel scene at the time had already placed Danielle with one victim, Martin Bone, and now Madame Ganche just placed Danielle with a second victim, Natalie
go Dard new information that authorities never received. As we combed through the original investigation to learn as much about the evidence as possible, we discovered that police received a tip from a homeless man named Renee who claimed to have seen a suspicious vehicle at one of the dumb sites. Again Frederic Law so as the Alipok.
This homeless man was interviewed at the time by the unit investigating the case and he said that he witnessed suspicious activity near the path of Wherri where some of the torsos were found.
Didischman like you, jud Dave Guldnuvau Team Breck.
He said he saw a station wagon making suspicious trips back and forth. As I'm not sure if he gave the exact model, but he gave a clear description of the vehicle as being a dark colored station wagon.
You'll recall that the investigative journalist, Frederic Law, is originally from moss and since we've been reinvestigating the case, he's been reaching out to friends and contacts to look for potential witnesses who never reported information to police. We've recently obtained no testimony about suspicious sightings of a station wagon.
Companion, my partner at the time, went to buy cigarettes. It was the month of March and it was dark outside and he went to a convenience store and on his way back from getting cigarettes, he was on the riv Underveld and he had to swerve because a car, a station wagon was parked on the side halfway in the road and a person was throwing trash backs down towards the ditch. He passed the car and had time to see the silhouette of a person, a man alone in a station wagon.
He thought it was dark in color.
And he went home and then went out again later driving towards Mons and he was stopped by police. It was a basic traffic stop, and he recalls saying to the police that instead of bothering him, they should go get the guy who was dumping trash backs in the ditch, and police didn't follow up because they were doing some other control for speeding or an alcohol test, I'm not sure. And afterwards, when the sacks were discovered, he made the connection.
He never went to report it because he had a tense relationship with the police.
La Veules.
He told me that in his mind, in any case, he believes he saw the trash backs being deposited by the butcher.
Of Moss because it was during the month of March nineteen ninety seven, shortly before the first discoveries at the exact same spot. The man was convinced he witnessed the butcher of Mons disposing of body parts in those trash bags. He's also convinced that the butcher of Mons drove a dark colored station wagon, corroborating the testimony of Renee, a witness from the original investigation. Before learning about the significance of the dark colored station wagon, Morgan made some discoveries
that didn't seem significant at the time. As he collected testimony for his book, he spoke to a man who lived near the dumping grounds.
Luteman record of the witness.
I spoke to explain that when you crossed the bridge on Rue vander Velda, near where the discoveries were made, there's a small street on the.
Right annum Nito opel brech Dontru.
Shortly before the trash bags were found, he noticed a man meticulously cleaning out an Opal station wagon in this street where the witness lived himself, and it jumped out at him because the man didn't live in his street.
The witness said he noticed the man cleaning the Opal station wagon because it was in front of a vacant house that wasn't his. Unfortunately, he couldn't remember what the man looked like at the time. Of the murders. Not only did Danielle live near this witness and in close proximity to the dumping grounds, but we also recently learned from a source close to the investigation that he drove
a dark colored Opal station wagon. In twenty twenty two, Morgan published his book on the Butcher of MOUs case titled Ile moens sanc monquete sur le depasur de Moss or in English, its Five to the Hour Investigation into the Butcher of Moss. The title of its five to the hour refers to the fact that at the time of publication, the investigation had five years to go before reaching its statute of limitation and being definitively closed, which
is set to happen in twenty twenty seven. He spent years building relationships, interviewing witnesses, and developing sources, some confidentially. Before he knew of Danielle's existence, several leads emerged that put Morgan on Danielle's trail. Many of those leads came from le Metropoles, where Morgan spent countless hours speaking with Monique and anyone else connected to the station area during the time of the murders. At first his efforts to
engage were met with wariness. Only after locals grew accustomed to seeing him regularly at the bar did some begin to open up. One woman he'd seen at Le Metropole several times kept very much to herself and clearly didn't want to speak with him, But after some encouragement from Madame Ganche, she finally relented. Even after all these years, she still apprehensive because the killer is still out there.
After gaining her trust, she shared disturbing circumstances involving a woman named Guile, a potential survivor of the Butcher of Moss. These are her words, not her voice.
I know that some time before she had been approached by a man with whom she had spent a few days. I didn't pay much attention at the time, but not long after I was surprised not to see her anymore. That began to worry me, so I went to the police to report her disappearance. The man with whom she stayed was Danielle. After reporting Guile missing, he came to find me at the bar where I was working at the time. He stormed into the place. He was tense,
upset and sweating all over in an aggressive tone. He told me I shouldn't have reported her missing because it had caused him serious problems. I felt threatened. I'd never seen him like that before. I assumed his violent reaction was linked to the report I had made to the police.
Since learning about Danielle, Morgan did door to door inquiries in the street where he lived at the time. It's been almost thirty years, so it was a bit of a hail Mary. But on one of his last door knocks he spoke with a couple who recalled a worrying encounter with a young woman in distress. Unfortunately, the couple didn't want to be recorded.
Morgan explains, it's a couple that lived in the Rue van der Velda at the time of the murders, and even before they couldn't recall the exact timing. Just in front of their house there's a small park and one morning, very early, there was a woman there, half naked and exposed, who appeared inebriated and she was frantically repeating that someone was trying to hurt her. They took her into their house and she was in shock, so they called the police,
who came and picked her up. It was on the Act to do and this couple lived directly next door to daniel but they couldn't say if she had been at his house.
Although I don't have definitive proof, it's my professional opinion that this woman was Guiles, and I believe that the quote someone trying to quote hurt her was Danielle. After Giles's friend whose words we just heard, reported her missing, she was actually located by police and Brussels. They tried to question her about the incident, but she was unable or unwilling to discuss it. Xavier looked into giles past to learn more about her lifestyle then and her whereabouts now.
In nineteen ninety six, she would have been twenty seven years old. It appears that she didn't have a fixed residence and was basically living in the streets. I was able to find trace of her existence via family members on Facebook.
For two.
When I finally found a picture of her from the time, she looked like a face you would have seen on the model board for this case, very similar to some of the other victims, a profile much like Natalie Goda, actually leaving rough spending time in the streets and bars around the station.
Gile had a long history of psychological issues which had taken a turn for the worse. After the incident, we of course wanted very much to speak with Gile, but Xavier was able to establish that she passed away in twenty twenty two. Back when writing his book, Morgan had heard about a woman who was viciously attacked by a man who actually worked as a butcher in Moss. It would be cruel irony if the Butcher of Moss turned
out to be an actual butcher. In any case, the story piqued Morgan's interest, and he set out to find the woman who had been assaulted. It turned out that she was the victim of a brutal attack where a man attempted to cut her throat in the street with a knife. The perpetrator was convicted of the crime, but it was established that he couldn't be our Butcher of
Moss given his age and alibis. However, the same woman, who was a sex worker at the time, told Morgan about another negative experience with a different man, a man named Danielle Queen.
I spoke with another woman who lived in the train station area at the time. She also had a similar profile as some of the victims, and she's still very fragile. Now I slowly gained her confidence, and she told me about an experience she had with Danielle. After a day of drinking in the bars, she got into a car with him and it didn't go well. She can't remember the exact circumstances or didn't want to say, but whatever it was appeared to traumatize her and she did whatever
she could to get out of the car. She fought back, and he stopped the car and she managed to jump out. She couldn't discribe exactly what happened, but whatever it was scared her and she wanted to escape, and it still stuck in her memory. At first, I wasn't sure that it was really our Danielle, but when she confirmed his nickname, I knew it was him.
Through a deep dive into Danielle's past, we learned that at the beginning of nineteen ninety seven, he moved in with a woman who would later become his wife. After they married, the butcher of Man's murders stopped. However, between the time Danielle moved into his new girlfriend's house and their wedding, there was one last murder, that of Begugnia Valencia.
Bogonia's case is somewhat of an outlier, as she didn't disappear from the center of mass like the other victims, but rather from the municipality of Framerie on the outskirts of the city. Fremrie happens to be where Danielle's new residence was. In fact, in order to drive to work, he had to take the road where Bogognia was last seen. The amount of circumstantial evidence pointing to Danielle's possible involvement with these murders is overwhelming, yet he was never arrested
or charged. However, our investigation has uncovered new evidence that
police didn't know at the time. The testimony from Madame Ganche stating that Danielle rented a room with Nettali Go Daard at Le Metropol shortly before her murder, the sightings of vehicles at crime scenes matching what he drove at the time, New testimonies from women who had negative and frightening experiences with Danielle, and his next door neighbor's account of finding a half naked and terrified woman in front of his house, claiming that someone was trying to hurt her.
Since our recent discovery of these elements, we've been working towards trying to confront Danielle. At the very beginning, we didn't even know his name, but through the dogged work of Morgan, Frederic and Xavier, we found him. It was difficult because he has zero online footprint. We found an address and Morgan spent a day doing reconnaissance around the area. We didn't even have a picture of him, but Morgan observed a man living at the address who fit the
age and physical description. Separately, Frederic was able to track down Danielle's estranged wife. She maintained that he had nothing to do with the murders and asked for us to leave them alone. After exhausting all of those angles, Morgan mailed Danielle a letter another Hail Mary. But to our great surprise, it worked and he responded to the email
Morgan provided. This is what brought Morgan and I to the south of Belgium, where the episode began, navigating through the cobbled streets of a village flanked by an unanticipated summer festival, making our way on foot to Danielle's residence. Danielle knows we're making a podcast, but he doesn't want to be recorded. However, we do have an accurate transcript of the interview. I want to build confidence with him,
so I explain that I'm recording our arrival. Only then I show him that I'm turning off the recorder, which I do. His house is about a fifteen minute walk away from the center of the village, nestled on a hillside and surrounded by lush greenery. He welcomes us politely and we sit down around his dining room table. He's rather tall in his mid sixties, and you can tell he was probably quite strong in his younger years. However, he's apparently had hard problems, and his physique bears the
unmistakable toll of decades of drinking. Indeed, it was ten am and he had already worked his way through a good portion of a bottle of wine sitting on the table in front of him. He's courteous, but gives off an aura that keeps me slightly on guard. He speaks clearly and with confidence, definitely not a fool. I'm sitting directly across from him, and I can't help but stare at his hands, wondering if those are the hands that
murder and dismembered at least five women. Morgan gigs off by asking him why he agreed to meet with us. With transcripts from the interview, we've been able to recreate Danielle's words.
If I didn't meet you, you see, I'd be afraid that you might invent things. It's to fill in the gaps so you don't fill them in yourself.
After some more small talk about our project, we ask him to explain how he ended up in Moss.
I was deeply in love with a woman, but she dumbed me. I'd say that between the ages of thirty one and thirty five there was a gap. I didn't have any real relationships with women, apart from a few encounters, but not with the kind of women you'd want to build a life with. And even that wasn't so common. I spent my nights at the le Metropol, the Carridas, and in an even more unspeakable place, the Unsolite.
The Carridas and the Ansolite were bars and Moss.
At the time, well, I didn't live an exemplary life. I drank beyond all imagination. A typical day in Mons for me was I was working shifts at the factory. I'd finish at ten PM after sharing a coffee with a buddy taking over. At ten thirty, I'd get in my car, and by eleven p m. I was in Mons And then without fail, I'd end up at Le Metropol. I'd fuel myself with Left Blonde, not two or three. I really drank hard.
Left Blonde is a typical trap of style Belgian beer, with about twice the alcohol content of a normal American beer. He later explained to me that he'd drink ten or more of these on a night out around the train station.
Afterwards, sometimes I'd go back to the Ansolite. You needed a fat wallet for that place. You can't even call the Ansolita bar. It was an outright to bordello.
Really, as far as I can tell, the Absolete was basically a sex club.
I've always had a tendency to hang around with disreputable people. Why, I don't know. It's just how I'm wired. I have to say it got worse after I turned thirty. Between twenty and thirty, I still had a certain restraint. But once I was on my own in my apartment in quem near the Mont train station. I took full advantage of it. That's where I met Monique Gone and her
friend George at Le Metropol. George was a bit of a clown, a very likable guy, but with the flaw of pretending to be some kind of hypnotist.
You'll recall that George is the man who claimed to have psychic powers and spent his time doing readings with women at the Metropol.
It's true that once, when I was very drunk, I said to George, you see, George, these hands have blood on them. I was completely wasted. I don't know why I said that, but I did. Anyway, Yes that sentence. Yes, what an idiot I was. Yes, I said it. I was completely wasted. And since I'm a pretty good actor, when I said it, I must have been very convincing. So there you go, one more stupid thing to add to the list.
As far as we know, this is the first time Danielle admits to making this statement. We were told that he never admitted it to police, but in our interview he clearly admits to it. Next, we go through the list of victims with him.
Begonia Valencia no memory at all, not even of seeing her I have no recollection. Maybe she was sitting at a table a few meters away having a drink, but I don't have any memory of it. Jacqueline Leclaire. Judging from the photos she was fairly tall, but I don't have any memory of her. Natalie Godard Well, I learned from the press that she was seeing Leopold Bogart. I don't recall her.
I decided not to confront Danielle just yet about Madame Ganci's recent claim to have rented a room to him at L Metropole with Natalie Goddard. He's talking and at this stage we're still trying to build a rapport with him.
Martin Boone Well, at the end of one of my drunken nights at Le Metropol, around six or seven in the morning, I remember ordering a bottle of gin with a prostitute, and I believe it was Martin Boone.
This is the first time he openly admits to having spent time with Martin Boone. A witness had reported seeing him with Martin at a different bar, but this time he's saying he was with her at L Metropole, so this could constitute two different sightings.
Carmelina Russo. I may have interacted with her at the unsolite. You know what happened at the unsolite. We did whatever we wanted, even in the booths, and there was a woman who looked like Carmelina Russo, who I think liked me. I say looked like oh, because I wouldn't swear it was actually Carmelina. It's possible, but only.
Once again another admission. He had never admitted to interacting with Carmeline Roussu. In fact, until today, he had always denied knowing any of the victims. You recall that the only time he lost his call when being questioned by police was when he was confronted by testimony from two female servers from bars downtown. One of these women, whose name we've changed to Julie in a transcription, apparently still gets under his skin.
Between Julie and me, things didn't go too well. She said, I was a man who despised women and thought that all women were whores. I love women, and I don't consider all of them to be whores, but some are, and that's the case with Julie.
Morgan asks if he booked a room with Natalie Goddard at Le Metropol.
No or else, I must have had one hell of a blackout. No, you know, for a simple reason, a financial one. At the time, I wasn't making that much money. I had to live my rent, my little car, food, covering my nights out with beer, occasionally allowing myself the brothel. I couldn't see myself paying for an extra room, quite simply for financial reasons. And no, I don't remember ever going up to a room at Le Metropol.
We refer to a recent newspaper article about the case that he said it'd read before our interview. The article speculated that the butcher of Moss must have known as victims, and that his motivation for the murders was likely sexual.
I was sexually motivated, but not to the point of cutting people up and taking their lives. That's something you have to keep in mind. The newspaper articles mentioned the use of a hexele. I've never cut up a body in my life, but it's true that it's the ideal tool for dismembering once the body is rigid. I would say it must be a fairly effective tool for that, But me, I've only ever used one to cut copper pipes and iron bars.
He's obviously baiting us at this point, musing about how a hack saw would be the ideal instrument to dismember a body, but only once rigor sets in. It sort of feels like he can't help himself, which reminds me of how police felt about him in their initial interviews, confidently playing with fire and taunting his interviewers. He's mostly affable during the interview, but from time to time there's a darkness in his gaze when we cover subjects that
annoy him. That being said, he's incredibly transparent. He openly admits to being an alcoholic, frequenting dodgy establishments, and engaging with sex workers, and even admits things to us that he never confessed to the police. He says that he understands why he was a suspect, but category denies any involvement with the murders. When we turned the subject to Guielle, the woman who had a negative experience with Danielle but then refused to talk about it, his response floors us.
Yes, I met Guyelle at the Apao bar and she told me she was going to be evicted from her place, and I told her well, then come stay at my place. So she lived with me for a few weeks. She wasn't stable, that girl. She was schizophrenic. I think I'm not a doctor, but I think that's what she was. It's true that I asked her to pose for me for nude photos. But those photos you see a thousand
times worse on the internet today than what I took. Unfortunately, I can't show them to you because they weren't returned to me. They were black and white photos, and yes, her vagina was visible, you know. Gustav Corbet Lore Jean Dumont. Well, it was more or less that kind of photo. So it wasn't really erotic, and it wasn't pornographic either. She wasn't doing anything sexual, and I thought it was beautiful to photograph her female body.
The Artistine mentions. Gustave Courbet was a French painter, most famous for his work called Lorigeann Dumont. It's a close up view of the vagina and abdomen of a naked woman lying on a bed with her legs spread. In any case, we now know that the nude photographs found on his computer were of Gaya.
I have to say I am rather free spirited. There was no sadomasochistic element, none of that. There weren't any extreme close ups either. They weren't medical pictures. I actually thought that my name was shared with the police by my landlord at the time because he saw Guyell jumping over my fence. I never should have done it, but I locked her into my place so that when I went to work she wouldn't go drinking at the barney. It was unlawful confinement, but at thirty I was stupid.
I didn't realize it. And if Guyell didn't end up in a garbage bag, it's because Daniel invited her to his place. Otherwise she would she would have met the same fate. So I have nothing to reproach myself for in having taken in Guyell.
The information he just shared about Guyele is a significant revelation. He just admitted to kidnapping a young woman with the same exact profile as the other victims, and also taking explicit pictures of her naked body. While he hasn't admitted to anything illegal with the five victims, this does perhaps establish a potential pattern. We just recently learned that Belgian authorities reached out to the FBI's behavioral Science unit early on in the Butcher of Man's investigation to help them
establish a profile. This was unrelated to the interactions they had with the FBI concerning Smaiyo Jurleik from the Bronx Butcher case, which took place much later.
Frederick explains, perhaps more de Blanquet, the investigators early in the case contacted the FBI's behavioral Science unit in Quantico, and they assisted the Belgian in creating a profile of the possible killer.
Nudique luteur de fe what rondomous.
The profile stated that the popetrator was likely a man living alone who was a regular in the train station area, but who wasn't part of the social network of the neighborhood. To say it crudely, he wasn't a drifter or someone who was down and out, even if that neighborhood isn't only made up of people like that, of course, so he frequented the area and knew it well, but was able to blend into the background without being noticed, and
was able to approach the victims and inspire confidence. And furthermore, he likely targeted women with marginalized profiles.
Of fragilitis or plumpsyicle affective.
Women who were emotionally and psychologically fragile. He targeted them because he knew them. The women were not abducted, they either decided to go with him or to meet him somewhere. The profile also suggests that he was likely of above average intelligence and had access to a vehicle, and also that he had access to a place where he could carry out the murderers and dismemberments without being interrupted.
His dio sicel shall will de More Bromon.
The profilers said that they did not believe that the dismemberment of the bodies had anything to do with a fetish or sadism, but that it was rather practical because it's easier to dispose of body parts than all bodies. It says that he likely disposed of body arts in places he knew well that were close to where he lived.
A personal.
It also addressed possible personality trait of the perpetrator. It said that he probably had complicated relationships with women and a succession of failed relationships, but that he wouldn't necessarily have a history of domestic violence. He described the perpetrator as someone who managed his emotions and was capable of controlling himself even under pressure.
I designer comes to kill Zappella soft killer.
It designates him as a soft killer, meaning he was able to stop a series of murderers at some point due to a new element of stability in his life. And the example they gave was starting a successful new romantic relationship.
At the risk of developing tunnel vision about Danielle, I have to admit that the FBI profile developed back at the beginning of the case is almost a perfect description of him. During our interview, he categorically denied his involvement several times. We spoke at length about his experience of being questioned by police, of how his wife was questioned as well, and of having his residences in workplace searched multiple times, and of course how all of this affected
his life negatively. He pointed out repeatedly that there was no physical evidence found anywhere in his life, which is certainly a very important point to remember. Furthermore, he affirmed that his DNA was taken and presumably tested.
Of course I took the DNA tests. Once again, I had nothing to hide, That's the truth. How to believe maybe, but I had nothing to reproach myself for nothing involving this case at any rate. Even my poor mother they shoved a DNA swab in her mouth, and her cleaning lady, her cousin too. Yes, it was an ordeal.
The lack of any physical proof pointing to Danielle is a a layering weakness in the circumstantial case against him. We know that his DNA was taken and compared to any samples collected from the trash bags. Unfortunately, we don't know what DNA the police have, nor anything about possible matches, as this information is under lock and key. However, you have to presume they have some samples. Given the sheer number of physical evidence from thirty seven body parts in
fifteen different trash bags. The fact that they were able to find a single hair, extract a DNA sample from it, and then follow up with partial matches like Giselle makes me think that he must have been tested against every possible sample. Had his DNA been found on any of the evidence, or if any of the victims DNA had been found in any of his belongings, I'm pretty sure he'd be sitting in prison today. Danielle was generous with his time, and after about an hour the tension loosened
a bit. He offered us a drink and we obliged. The atmosphere turned friendly, and it was difficult to do this, but I had to confront him again about Natalie Goda, despite his previous denials. We also had a second source recently alleged that Danielle may have spent an evening with her and another man known to the police as a petty criminal. When we brought up this man's name, he said he might have known him, but didn't elaborate. When Morgan insisted and linked it to Natalie, he relented.
I don't remember going out with him. I recall taking photos somewhere in the street and we struck up a conversation and I told him I'd like to take pictures of naked women, nude shots and all that. We all have our little quirks, and he told me, don't worry, I'll sort you out. He had an easy way of getting in touch with certain women. And he came back
to my place with a woman. I didn't take any photos and I didn't see anything because I was completely wasted, but I know that he had sex with her in my bed, and that they left quietly the next morning. I don't think it was Natalie Goda, but I can't swear it wasn't.
Finally, we opened a small crack into his denial of knowing Natalie Godard. At this point I explained what Madame Ganche told me recently about him renting a room with Netalie at Le Metropol. I pulled out my phone and played the recording for him.
I see.
He came in here and walked straight up to me and asked for a room.
Morgan and I watched him very closely as he listened to the recording, ring.
A trench coat like people wore at that time, a greenish trench coat.
When Madame Ganche said that he was wearing a greenish trench coat that night, he crooked his head in what looked like confused amusement. While the recording still played. He said to himself out loud, it's true I had a coat like that. He said he didn't remember renting a room with Natalie, but that he also didn't think Madame Ganche is a liar, and that if she said it happened, it must be true because he did often wear a greenish trench coat at the time. Once again, I'm struck
by his transparency. He could have just stuck with his original denial. I mean, we had no idea he wore a coat like that. As we wound up to leave, he said he's lucky that the cops didn't know some of the things we dug up at the time, because he surely would have been arrested and charged, And in the next breath he said it would have been a
terrible miscarriage of justice. It makes me think back to what started the whole chain of offense that brought us here, the original tip about Danielle to the gen Dear Marie. If only they would have handled this correctly and passed the tip on to their colleagues of the judicial police, Danielle wouldn't have been summoned, but rather questioned and searched by surprise. It's a tragedy that cuts both ways. On one hand, police lost the element of surprise and possibly
the opportunity to find proof of Danielle's guilt. On the other hand, Danielle somehow lost the presumption of innocence in the minds of the police. They knew he could have had time to potentially hide evidence and prepare his story. Next year will mark thirty years since the first victim of the Butcher of Mons disappeared, and the victim's names should never be forgotten. They are Carmeline Russeau, Martin Baun, Jacqueline Leclaire, Natalie Godard and Bogonia Valencia. They deserve justice
and their families deserve closure. Throughout this podcast investigation, we've rehashed old theories and suspects and brought new information to light. Some believe that the Butcher of Mons died in prison in twenty twelve. His name Smayojerlik, also known as the Bronx Butcher. He was a proven murderer who dismembered his girlfriend Mary Beale in nineteen ninety before fleeing to Belgium just in time for the Mause murders to begin. Others believe the Butcher of Moss is alive and well, despite
the lack of physical proof. Several of the police officers in judicial authorities who work the case still believe that the man we're calling Danielle is the Butcher of mass While there's no DNA match or other physical evidence linking into the crimes, the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. His recent admissions to US only further dial up suspicion despite him
consistently maintaining his innocence. One thing we know for sure is that the Butcher of Mals case file contains information that has never been released to the families or to the public DNA results persons of interest in case, details that could clear some suspects and open the door to others. I'm proud of the work that Frederic Morgan, Xavier Allan and myself have done so far, and we're just scratching the surface of what we could do with all of
the information in hand. We'll continue to work with the families and fight for transparency and justice. If you have any information about the Butcher of Mall's case, please share it via the Facebook group page, Facebook dot com slash groups slash Malls Killings. If and when we uncovered new developments, you'll be the first to find out. Please be sure to follow the show on your app to stay connected.
Until then, Stay safe and see you soon. Mercy e Abientu Le Montre is a production of Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts, hosted, written, and executive produced by me Matt Graves, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsay are executive producers on the behalf of Tenderfoot TV, with producer Makeup and vanity set. Matt Frederick and Trevor Young are executive producers on the behalf of iHeart Podcasts. Original music by Jay Ragsdale, sound design and master by Cooper Skinner, Cover design by Byron
McCoy and Trevor Eiler. La Monstre includes archival audio from SONNEMA RTBF Archives. Special thanks to Aren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, the Nord Group, and our active investigation team Morgen van Leerberg, Fredrich lah Zervi de Com and Anna Gardon, as well as the teams at iHeart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV. Find us on social media at Monster Underscore pod. For more podcasts like Lea Monstre, search Tenderfoot TV in your podcast app, or visit Tenderfoot TV.