Breakthrough [7]

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I have a lot of questions about this man. I find him strange. I'm always suspicious of people who are a little too clean, too polished, and you don't really know who they are. He is said to be intelligent, refined, even elegant, and yet he spends his time roaming around the train station area. Why does a man like this hang out in a place like that? Why does he hang out there? And why does he become the confidant of all these women? It's bizarre. Through my research, I

I can't be mysterious?

The rest They disappearance of a woman from Mount Jacqueline.

The condition of the victims was sickening, and the question remains, where is the killer?

From Tender for TV and I Heeart podcasts, I'm your host Matt Graves, and this is Lea Monstre Season two, The Butcher of mass.

Lazy Levitabricado Di.

And now the disappearance of a woman from Mont Jacqueline Leclerq, thirty three years old.

Come at dievu Chateaubicour.

This young woman has short, light brown hair and blue eyes, five feet three inches tall with a normal build.

She is French speaking.

You recall Jacqueline, the first victim we covered in this series. She was a mother of four who was last seen entering her apartment near the center of Mons at around eight pm on December twenty second, nineteen ninety six. Shortly before her murder, she had mentioned to her sister Georgette, that she kept bumping into the same man at different places around town. Here are Georgette's words from episode two.

About a year before her disappearance, she met someone in the Wauxhall Park in monts She crossed path with him a few times before, and at one point he approached her for a conversation. She said, it didn't seem to be trying to charm or flirt with her. It seemed like a good person, respectful. She had mentioned this man to me she found him rather nice, cultured and intelligent, a pleasure to speak with. After meeting him in the park,

This mystery man has been a key person of interest in Jacqueline's disappearance, and Morgan has been attempting to identify him for over a year.

If it's a monsieurityputicle, Actually, this guy seemed like a decent gentleman. He wasn't hitting on her or anything. But Jacqueline lived in a small quiet in Mons and she kept bumping into him near her house or other places in Mons. And because of the ietypical description of this man, the stylish way he dressed and spoke, I went back and reviewed my notes from all of my previous interviews and realized that several people had talked about a man of similar description.

When Jacqueline disappeared, her sister kept all of her belongings and later went through them in detail with Morgan. When he first started investigating the case, they included a simple business card with a man's name, telephone number, and address. At the time, it didn't have any significance, but as Morgan began inquiring about an elegant, well spoken man who spent time at Le Metropole, a woman he interviewed said that it sounded a lot like someone her sister once described.

He calls himself a medium, and it's true that he was able to gain the trust of the people who knew him and consulted with him. Apart from his talent as a pseudo medium, he also had an attentive fear, mostly for women, and especially women who were a bit lost. He liked to play the good Samaritan and listen to them. Actually, he had a little notebook, and in that notebook he

I later asked Morgan where he heard that George recorded sexual remarks about his clients. He confirmed that Madame Gorge, the owner of La Metropol, told him this.

He was someone who was always very well dressed in his early sixties. He spoke eloquently and his French was impeccable. He sort of seemed out of place around the train station, as it's not the kind of area where you'd expect to see someone like him.

He often met his clients for psychic readings at La Metropol, and virtually all of them were women.

Metropol.

He spent a lot of time at Le Metropol. He sometimes helped serve drinks behind the bar, and he he also did his readings there. But a lot of people had doubts about his talents as a medium, And we know that he knew several of the victims, Jacquelina. We already know that he knew Jacqueline. I also got a first hand testimony from Martin's hairdresser, who described seeing her with a man of the same description.

You recall that Martin Bone was murdered the day after visiting her hairdresser, Edoir. He confirmed to Morgan that Martin had come to a salon accompanied by a man fitting George's exact description. He couldn't remember the exact day, but recall that it was not long before her disappearance. And when you mention this, he said, quote, I think it could have been a medium from Le Metropoldrogn.

Apparently during a reading with a woman Natalie Goda, came into Le Metropol and walked up to them, and at that point he lost his patience, told her off, and then said what the fuck does she want from me now, which was at all his normal vocabulary attitude, and it really surprised the woman who was getting the reading. So now we're already at three victims where we're certain he knew them.

Camiki.

Also there was a friend of Carmelina Russo who thinks she had contact with him, but I haven't been able to crosscheck with another witness, and since I only have one account, I can confirm it one hundred percent. Whereas for the other victims, I'm sure.

We're certain that George personally knew the victims, Jacqueline, Martin and Natalie, And although it's not one hundred percent confirmed, we believe he knew Carmelina and most likely Pagonia as well, since they both frequented La metro Pol. Now that we've tied George to the mystery man seemingly stalking Jacqueline, I asked Madame Gosh, the owner of Le Metropol, what she could tell us about him.

George was a smooth talker. He was incredibly gentle, very gentle in all that he said. Without a doubt, the man that she had met several times is the man who killed her. But it's not George. Do you understand?

I asked her how she knows it wasn't him.

No, it's not George who killed the girls. Again, I asked her how she knows this, But Trisi, I know by intuition.

I think it's important to explain that Madame Ganche was very close to George, so it makes sense that she would defend him around the time of the murders. We believe the two were in an intimate relationship.

She is.

To kill five women and cut them up? Do you realize he had to have a special place to do that? Particularly, George had family. He had children, and he had a wife, and he had a brother. According to our research, George did have a wife and children, but they were separated at the time and he lived alone in his house which was quite close to the train station and even

It's been difficult to find information about the men were calling George. All I had at the start was a date of birth, the fact that he had once lived in France, and that he had a brother. So what I can tell you is that at the time of the murders in nineteen ninety six, George was sixty three

Given his connection with le Metropold, George was also questioned. However, police didn't have anything implicating him in the murders. Apparently, he was very interested in the case and followed developments closely. In fact, he became somewhat of a go to person for people wanting to know more about what was going on.

When the television crew came to le Metropol to film the public appeal, for witnesses. George drew attention to himself and even welcomed the TV crew into his home. He was very interested in the investigation and everything going on, and he was making himself the center of attention.

Frederick lah, the investigative journalist who you've heard speaking English and previous episodes, was part of my interview with Morgan. As our discussion was in French, I've included the translation.

Satitude particular the jor Roki.

The particular attitude of George, who showed himself to be more than helpful, raised the eyebrows of certain investigators and they ended up having suspicions about him. He see miscoms that he was inserting himself into the investigation and putting himself forward.

To learn more about this, I spoke to the profiler, doctor Danielle Zuquer, who you heard in episode five.

So the perpetrator is inserting himself in an investigation when he's looking for controlling the narratives and monitoring progress. This is really important for him because then he can adapt and another motive would be to mislead the police so get them on the wrong track, and sometimes also to because he's seeking for some attention.

Yeah.

For example, the BTK got involved in the investigation, and I think it was trying to get attention and be sure that the media as would talk about him.

Doctor Zuker is referring to the infamous BTK killer Dennis Raider, who actually complained in a letter to a newspaper that he felt the police in media weren't paying enough attention to him. Morgan explains another worrying fact about George on.

Em There's another interesting detail I can add find any no non set because tomorrow, at the end of nineteen ninety seven, not long after becoming interested in the investigation and filming the appeal for a witnesses.

Segment, George vas de Menege.

George relocated rather abruptly to Normandy in France, and this was another element that investigators questioned why this hasty moved to France.

In fact, we learned that he skipped down quickly without even paying his rent, a hasty departure. Indeed, we also learned that the house he moved into in France was actually owned by Madame Ganche. It's obviously sensitive to discuss George with Madame Ganche, based on their relationship at the time. Furthermore, authorities also treated her as a person of interest in the case, having known all the victims, although no further action was taken. It's an interesting twist, she explains.

So they tried to find out if I had anything to do with the butcher of Mond's case of and I noticed it because they called me many many times, Nessir. They'd come at night, they'd come in the morning, they'd come at noon all the time, So many times they'd come speak with me and ask me to repeat everything. It was a strange experience for me.

Based on the physical evidence and witness statements, were confident that George was the mystery man who appeared to be stalking Jacqueline. Claiming to be a medium, he spent a lot of time doing ratings with women that had similar profiles as Jacqueline and the other victims. Through his personal notebook, we know that he often recorded notes that were sexual in nature, indicating his true motives and feelings about the women.

I served a coffee to the man in question, and George was sitting opposite him, and I brought the coffee, and when I arrived at the table, I heard this man who was showing his hands to George sitting in front of him, and he said, I have blood on my hands. And George came up to the bar and asked, did you hear what he said to me? And I said I heard something, but then maybe he was just drunk. And George said that the man just told him that he had blood on his hands.

We'll call the man with whom George supposedly had this discussion. Danielle also not his real name, as he's not known to the public and the case is still active, there's some confusion about what exactly was said in this discussion. Morgan originally pride this information out of Madame Gone, So here's what he recalls.

Madame Gonsch told me that one day George was at Le Metropol as usual, and another regular named Daniel arrived and sat down with George and they were talking, and that at one point Daniel showed his hands to George and said his hands have killed more than once, or something like that, and George was shocked, and he went to Madame Ganch and asked her if he should report him to the police. And she told George that since Daniel said this to him, it was up to him

Substantiating that this conversation ever actually took place was difficult. All we had to go on was the version Madame Gone shared with Morgan, and a slightly different version that she shared with me. However, the recent discussions with former police officers we were able to confirm not only that it took place, but much more. Frederick lah explains.

I was unaware of everything Morgan just shared about this at the time of my original.

Investigation jose Ames avestigation.

However, I learned recently that George went to the police at the time to declare that Danielle, a client of Le Metropol, confided something very particular to him.

Or in the deficile did not feel more.

It's difficult to determine the exact timeline of this. Was it before the discovery of the body parts or after, most likely after, But in any case, he informed the police and specifically the Gendarmerie of this first hand account.

De setimonial Mosque Rousse.

And so what I know about George is that he denounced Daniel and set the police on his trail.

Pie dou Daniel.

As Frederick mentioned, George went specifically to the Gendarmerie to report his conversation with Danielle. In Belgium at the time, there were two main police forces, the Gendarmerie, a national force under the Defense Ministry, and the judicial police, an investigative force reporting in to the public prosecutor. If you listen to season one of La Montstre, you'll recall that these two police forces were in the throes of major

Leavetemonial.

George went to the Gendarmerie to tell them about the conversation he had with Danielle. The gendarmes then summoned Danielle to come for an interview to explain his purported statement about having blood on his hands. So he must have received a letter asking him to come to the Gendarmerie, and so before going he had time to make evidence disappear if there was any, and also to prepare for

If you're investigating a potential serial killer, you obviously wouldn't want to tip him off before speaking with him. This mistake would never have happened had the judicial police in charge of the case received the initial tip. Until recently, the existence of Danielle was completely unknown to us. The fact that he was questioned as a person of interest in the case is not public knowledge. When we first learned about it, I thought it would be just another

San Josu Nikias.

He was a night owl who spent a lot of time in the establishments surrounding the station, and specifically Le Metropol, and he drank heavily tradiscret He was very discreet and withdrawn, and few people really knew him other than his first name.

He also had a nickname.

We decided not to publicly share Danielle's nickname, but awareness of it has proven to be valuable for investigation.

He apparently had a strange way of relating to women. I can't say with absolute certainty that it was him, but I've heard accounts about a man of the same mental and physical description who had difficulties in his relationships with women. Plants the second. Multiple women complained about his behavior. That doesn't make him a killer, but it makes you ask what's he doing in these bars at night and why is he having problems with women.

Prior to her disappearance, Jacqueline mentioned to her sister that a man named Danielle, who became aggressive when drinking, had repeatedly tried to approach her at a bar near her apartment. We have no idea if this was the same Danielle, as his real first name is quite common, and Jacqueline was beautiful and unwanted advances were a frequent occurring for her. Our investigation into George has placed him in direct contact with multiple victims, in this case, Following that lead has

She passed the car and had time to see the silhouette of a person, a man alone in a station wagon. He told me that in his mind, in any case, he believes he saw the trash backs being deposited by the butcher of Moss.

Shortly before the trash backs were found, he noticed a man meticulously cleaning out an open station wagon in this street where the witness lived himself, and it jumped out at him because the man didn't live in his street.

In an aggressive tone, he told me I shouldn't have reported her missing because it had caused him serious problems. I felt threatened. I'd never seen him like that before. I assume his violent reaction was linked to the report I had made to the police.

It's true that once, when I was very drunk, I said to George, you see, George, these hands have blood on them. I was completely wasted.

Champ he came to get a room with Natalie. He came in here and walked straight up to me and asked for a room. She was dead a few weeks later.

Le Montre is a production of Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts, hosted, written, and executive produced by me. Matt Graves, Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay are executive producers on the behalf of Tenderfoot TV, with producer Makeup and Vanity Said. Matt Frederick and Trevor Young are executive producers on the behalf of iHeart Podcasts. Original music by Jay Ragsdale, Sound design and master by Cooper Skinner. Cover design by Byron McCoy and Trevor Eiler.

Plus.

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