![Beneath the Surface [2] - podcast episode cover](https://assets.metacast.app/images/episode/artwork/LZYIZWSM)
The Butcher of Moss is released weekly absolutely free, but you can binge the entire season now with iHeart True Crime Plus exclusively on Apple Podcasts. You'll also get ad free listening and exclusive bonus episodes. So head to Apple Podcasts search iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe today.
The views and opinions expressing this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, and do not represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.
It was a crisp spring morning in March nineteen ninety seven in the south of Belgium. Natalie Godard kicked off her day by visiting the outdoor market near the center of the small city of Malls. She liked to hit the market just before clothes, when sellers offered the best deals or sometimes even gave away whatever fruits and vegetables they hadn't sold. Natalie needed every break she could get. At twenty two, she was struggling after a difficult home
life followed by a series of bad choices. She was an attractive young woman with reputation for being kind, so people around the market and cafes and bars downtown had a soft spot for Natalie. But her new boyfriend, Leopold was a different story. He was anything but nice, but people respected him and Natalie felt safe when he was around.
They were both free spirits in an on again, off again relationship, living day by day, and on that day, March sixteenth, nineteen ninety six, it was the White March in mass. The White March was a peaceful protest in solidarity with the families and victims of the d True Affair, Belgium's most notorious criminal case, involving convicted serial killer Marked a True and other accomplices. They kidnapped, abused, and murdered several young girls. This tragedy was the subject of La
Montsless Season one. The White March in Moss was also the last day Natalie go Dain would be seen alive. Someone evil was watching her movements that day, waiting for the opportunity to commit unspeakable crimes, crimes so horrific that they haunt the citizens of Belgium still to this day.
A mysteriously.
The rest of the disappearance of a woman from Mont Jacqueline.
The condition of the victims was sickening, and the question remains, where is the killer?
From Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts, I'm Your Host Matt Graves and this is La Monstre Season two, The Butcher of Moss. It had been less than three months since Jacqueline Leclair disappeared in the center of Moss. Now another young woman, Natalie go Dar, had vanished without a trace
from the same small city. There were no eye witnesses to either of the two disappearances, despite having taken place in the center of a densely populated Western European city at the time, no link was established between Jacqueline Leclaire, who disappeared on December twenty second, nineteen ninety six, and Natalie Godard, who went missing roughly three months later on
March sixteenth, nineteen ninety seven. Jacqueline and Natalie disappeared at a time when Belgium was reeling from the the True Affair. The entire country was in shock and disbelief at the horrific events leading up to and after the arrest of Mark d' true and his accomplices. Here's a short clip from season one of La Manstre.
Public outrage at the catalog of atrocities attributed to this man has escalated into nationwide anger at the system which allowed the True and his accomplices to operate unchecked and at will for years. Belgian justice is on trial.
At the time that the True affair was unfolding, another series of unthinkable crimes was taking place beneath the surface. Police forces across the country were stretched to the maximum, and disappearances of adult women in Moss weren't getting the attention they deserved. I spoke with the journalist Frederic Law about what it was like to cover these cases at
the time. Frederic is an award winning investigative journalist for the famous French magazine Paris Match, and he's agreed to help me with this project.
I was a young journalist at the time of the Jutrux affair and this case in Monts. I'm actually from Monts, I grew up there, so this case was particularly interesting for me. It was really a crazy time in Belgium. I mean, the du True affair was blowing up and stories were breaking every day. There was so much focus on it that it sort of drawn out everything else. As a young reporter, I covered everything. But since I was from most as you know, I started following this
case the story closely. At the time, violence against women did not attract the attention it does today, especially marginalized woman like Jacqueline Leclaire and Natalie Godaar, And I would say, despite the extraordinary work of the police and the judiciary, it is reasonable to think that in another context, and if they had a different profile, the resources allocated to the investigation unit would have been greater.
So we're here walking next to the train station and we're in go in front of the last place.
I'm standing in front of the last place Natali go Dar was seen. You'll recall from the previous episode that Xavier and I traveled to Monts to meet with Morgan van Leerberg. Xavier is a private investigator who I've worked with on other cases, and Morgan is an author who wrote an incredible book about this affair. You'll also hear some other voices in the background who will remain unnamed
given the sensitive nature of this still active case. Certain federal police officers and judicial authorities aren't happy at all about our reinvestigation. One of the people we're with explains that Natalie was last spotted here in front of this fast food establishment next to the central train station. Technically it's what's called a fretri or a French fries shop, a cultural staple in Belgium serving a thick cut, double
cooked French fries. You can pretty much find at least one free tree in every village in town throughout the country. On the evening of March sixteenth, nineteen ninety seven, Natalie and her boyfriend Leopold joined up with friends at an apartment in the city center after participating in the White March earlier that day. As usual with this friend group, there was a lot of drinking, smoking, and probably more.
At around eleven thirty pm, several of them, including Natalie and Leopold, got the munchies and decided to hit this free tree next to the train station. It's more of a takeaway place as opposed to seeded eating, so Natalie gave Leopold her order and decided to hang outside while others went in. When they came out, Natalie was gone. No one was really worried at the time because it was a busy area with a lot of bars and nightlife. Natalie was a free spirit, and they thought she just
wandered off and would find them later. One witness on the other side of the street reported seeing her outside of the free tree walking in the direction of the train station, and that was it. No other leads Natalie had vanished. The last person to see Natalie before she disappeared here didn't notice anything suspicious. Morgan explains.
There was a person who was at the free toeri and then left and crossed the street here, and when she turned around, she saw Natalie alone taking steps towards the train station, but without knowing if she was really walking towards the station or just meanderings of.
The other side of the street.
No one knew it at the time, but there was a connection between Natalie Godard and Jacqueline Leclaire, who disappeared a few months prior. Both women frequented several of the same cafes and bars near the train station, and specifically a small hotel and bar establishment called La Metropol. La Metropol was and still is a quaint hotel and bar across the street from the central train station. Despite its location in this rough and tumble neighborhood, Le Metropold exuded
a higher standard than most of the surrounding establishments. At the same time, it was a place welcome to all comers, provided they stuck to the rules laid down by its warm, yet intransigent owner, Madame ganche She bought the establishment way back in nineteen seventy eight and can still be found holding down the bar today, forty six years later. Madame ganche knew both Jacqueline and Natalie, who were regulars at Le Metropold Bar. Morgan has spent years building trust with
her to help him learn more about the case. She's not easy to approach, so when he finally said that she might speak to me if I showed up the next day, I jumped on a train to Moss to give it a shot.
Here I am again, once more in Moss. I'm walking into this new train station who was budgeted at thirty eight million and the ending budget was five hundred million. It's a national scandal. Here it looks like a space ship, but I have to admit it's pretty beautiful.
Le Metropole is only about a two minute walk from the train station and literally directly across the street from the spot where Natalie Goddard disappeared.
Oh well, here goes nothing. It was kind of shown up at the Hotel Metropols. I think Monique is actually sick, so uh, we'll see Monsieur.
Matt true deform. Monique was at her post running the bar. It was pretty much empty at this relatively early hour. She initially looked at me with a jaundiced eye, but then warmed up when I mentioned that I was Morgan's friend. I lucked out and she agreed to speak, and we found a spot near the back. I started out by asking if she could describe her memories of Jacqueline Leclaire, the first woman who went missing in December nineteen ninety six.
Jacquelin Jacqueline was very beautiful. She attracted people towards her. She was really the contrary of the other women who tried to do themselves up and attract gallantries left and right. Maqui she didn't use makeup, and she wore blue jeans or something like that, so she didn't try to make herself beautiful because she didn't have to. She talked to me about her children. She liked to connect and talk. She needed someone to confide in, but she didn't go
too deep. She told me that she was separated and that her husband had the children.
Tissed Saint Plumont.
She was sad because she didn't have her children. She was nice and agreeable. I never saw her have negative conversations with others. She wasn't looking for anyone. She'd come in to say hi to me because we knew each other. She had a good head on her shoulders and wouldn't get involved with someone she didn't know. It surprises me. I think she knew the person who harmed her.
I also asked Monique about the second young woman who disappeared, Natalie go Dar. She was last seen less than one hundred feet from where we're sitting right now, just under three months after Jacqueline went missing.
But Natalillo.
Natalie was a girl who didn't look like much and who didn't seem to worry about things. I never had much conversation with her because she was always talking to someone else who she knew, or someone just having a drink, and she also went to the other bars around here to drink. I often saw her with a former military guy, a guy who had been in the military and was missing an eye. She often spoke with him. He was
a beer drinker and so was she. When I heard that she didn't have a place to live, I thought it may be a crime of opportunity that whoever it was who picked her up might have offered her a night in a hotel. I don't know what he had going on in his head. He certainly had planned and organized his work and decided that he'd take her to a hotel because she didn't have a place to live. I don't know it could have been as simple as that.
Monique's theory that Natalie could have been offered a place to stay that night stems from the fact that at the time she was living on the streets with little to no money. Well, Natalie and the first victim, Jacqueline, came from different socioeconomic backgrounds. Both women were struggling at the time of their disappearances, making them more vulnerable to a predator. By the age of twenty two, Natalie go
dad had already endured a life of hardship. She grew up in a dysfunctional, unloving family where affection and stability were scarce. As a teenager, she sought escape from her troubled home by spending time on the streets and getting into unstable relationships. At nineteen, she became pregnant, but the child's father refused to be involved, leaving her to navigate an already difficult life alone. Her daughter, Laura, was eventually
placed in an infant orphanage. Here is Laura reflecting on her early life and her mother's struggles in an interview with a colleague.
My mother was living in the streets. In the end, she was marginalized, but she was above all someone who was looking for help. She was looking for help, but there was no one in her life to help her. I was put into an orphanage. It was mom's decision to put me there, but it was for my own security because she knew she couldn't manage alone. She told people around her that she wanted to get her life under control so she could get me back. Afterwards, I
was placed with my maternal grandmother. I thought a lot about my mother because I then understood what it was like to live with her.
Mother.
There was a lot of physical violence. Every day, I'd get hit or insulted, repeated insults. My name was never pronounced. I was called names, but never my own. She always addressed me by a different insult. There were also death threats I was told I'd nned up like my mother, and I understood her solitude. It's impossible to live that way without losing your footing at some point.
Natalie's daughter, Laura is an amazing person. Despite what she went through, Laura found the strength to move forward, build a life, and start a family of her own. Her first hand account of what her mother must have endured as heartbreaking. It's a cruel reminder of life's harsh injustices and how we shouldn't rush to judge someone who's struggling without understanding their circumstances. Both Natalie and Jacqueline were living precarious lives and spending time in the bars and cafes
around the central station. Mons had a population of just under a one hundred thousand people at the time, and literally hundreds of bars and cafes spread throughout the city and neighboring communes. Could it be a coincidence that two regulars of a small bar went missing within months of each other Sadly, no one was searching for Natalie because she left home years prior and had been living rough
or wherever she could find a place to stay. Jacqueline's family, on the other hand was continuing to search for her. They knew she wouldn't just run off somewhere. In fact, just before her disappearance, she'd been more optimistic than in a long time, and she was looking forward to likely getting to spend time with her four children over the holidays. The owner of La Metropol, Madame Ganche, also confirmed this. Mont Le tr.
My Guesza. The last time I saw her was in a supermarket. She came up to me and said, I have to tell you that I'm so happy because I'm going to get my children over Christmas and New Years. They're coming to.
Vien Move that she should thump me down.
And I said, that's wonderful, and I'm really happy for you. She had changed her hairstyle, her hair was short, and she seemed completely changed. The fact that someone is getting her children back can also change a person. She was perky and animated because her children were coming home. She said, I'm getting ready. I'm so happy, I'm so happy. It was the last time I saw her. It was around Christmas, and a few days later she disappeared.
Jacqueline's family rapped their brains to try to think if there was any sign or anyone in her life who could be involved with her disappearance. According to her sister, she was so focused on rebuilding her life and getting shared custody of the children that she wasn't open to new relationships at the time. There was one detail, however, that she couldn't shake. These are her words translated into English.
About a year before her disappearance, she met someone in the Wauxhall Park in monts She crossed path with him a few times before, and at one point he approached her for a conversation. She said it didn't seem to be trying to charm or flirt with her. It seemed like a good person, respectful. She had mentioned this mant to me she found him rather nice, cultured and intelligent, a pleasure to speak with. After meeting him in the park,
my sister ran into him a few more times. Jacqueline was surprised by this, and I think that's why she mentioned it to me. She always seems to bump into him by chance, but at some point she felt that dese encounters were probably orchestrated, maybe even calculated.
Who was this man with a habit of fortuitously bumping into Jacqueline? We know that they cross paths in many places where Jacqueline's life regularly took her. These include the Walkshall Park roughly a mile west of her apartment, the laundromat directly next to her place, and the metropols roughly a mile east of her apartment. It seems odd that she'd arbitrarily bump into the same person several times in
these random locations. His demeanor and appearance were distinct. He seemed to be in his late forties or early fifties, and he dressed impeccably and spoke articulately in a distinguished manner. Not the sort of man you'd expect to bump into it a laundromat in a rough part of town, or the bars near the train station. Jacqueline's sister spent years trying to identify this man. Morgan van Leaerberg, the author who you heard in episode one, has continued the search.
Identifying this man could be the key to unearthing new information about not only Jacqueline, but also about Natalie's disappearance. So I'm teaming up with a private investigator Xavier, the author Morgan, and the investigative journalist Frederic to see if together, we can find him.
The police never identified what this man was. If you think about it, it could be quite important. I mean, Jacqueline told her sister that she thought the man was observing her. It's not going to be easy, but we have to identify this man.
As nineteen ninety six turned into ninety seven, life and the city of Mons carried on as usual. The bars and cafes around the central station rumbled along normally. Some of the regulars knew that Jacqueline's sister was looking for her because of the posters, but most of them didn't even know that Natalie was missing. The disappearances of these two young women didn't even make the headlines. Apart from
a brief mention about Jacqueline's disappearance on local news. Citizens of Malls went about their normal business and young women continued to live their lives uninterrupted. But all of this was about to change next time. On season two of La.
Monstre Simfourian Street in Havrey, ne Mon, it's four pm, but police forces are holding back the press from where three new trash bags were just discovered containing human remains. The King's prosecutor explains what seems more and more to resemble a sordid treasure hunt. I can confirm as well that on the left forearm of one of the victims there was removal of roughly five centimeters of flesh.
I feared that the garbage bags contain my sister's body. Jacqueline add a tattoo of her hex husband Angelo on a left fore arm.
I played.
After the terrible discoveries of Saturday, investigators made a new discovery yesterday afternoon of the torso of a woman. Ten trash bags have been discovered so far. Investigators believe it is the work of a serial killer. For the moment, none of the victims have been identified.
Le Monstre is a production of Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts. Hosted, written, and executive produced by me Matt Graves, Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay are executive producers on the behalf of Tenderfoot TV, with producer make Up and Vanity Set. Matt Frederick and Trevor Young are executive producers on the behalf of iHeart Podcasts. Original music by Jay Ragsdale, sound design and master by Cooper Skinner. Cover design by Byron McCoy and Trevor Eiler.
Lea Monstre includes archival audio from SONYMA RTBF Archives. Special thanks to Aren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, the Nord Group and are Active Investigation Team Morgen van Leerberg, Frederic Laugh, Xervid Comb and Annan Gardon, as well as the teams at iHeart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV. Find us on social media at Monster Underscore pod. For more podcasts like Lea Monstre, search Tenderfoot TV in your podcast app
or visit Tenderfoot TV. Ready to keep listening, remember you can benge the rest of the season right now with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts Plus. You'll get exclusive bonus episodes and add free listening. So head to Apple Podcasts search iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe today