Law and the Future of War - podcast cover

Law and the Future of War

Asia-Pacific Institute for Law and Securityapils.org

Through conversation with experts in technology, law and military affairs, this series explores how new military technology and international law interact. Edited and produced by Dr Lauren Sanders and Dr Simon McKenzie, the podcast is published by the Asia-Pacific Institute for Law and Security. Until July 2024, the podcast was published by the University of Queensland School of Law.


Note: the views expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other organisation (such as Government, or Departments of Defence), unless the speaker specifically attributes their comments to that organisation. 

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Episodes

The Geneva Conventions and the Third World - Srinivas Burra

Send us a text In this episode, Dr Simon McKenzie talks with Associate Professor Srinivas Burra about the Third World and the Geneva Conventions. They discuss the value of taking a Third World perspective of international law, and how being attentive to the view from these State helps explain the form and operation of international humanitarian law. Srinivas Burra is an Associate Professor of Law at South Asian University in New Delhi. He has written on the Geveva Conventions, teaches internatio...

May 20, 202545 minSeason 11Ep. 5

The Geneva Conventions at sea - André Smit (ICRC)

Send us a text As part of the 75th anniversary series on the Gevena Conventions, Lauren Sanders speaks to André Smit - the ICRC Regional Legal Adviser on Maritime Matters (Asia-Pacific) when he visited Australia in September 2024. They discuss the applicability of Geneva Convention II (GC II) on the Amerlioraton to the region and challenges for states in applying their obligations under GC II in the event of a maritime conflict in the region. André supports the work of the International Committe...

May 07, 202553 minSeason 11Ep. 4

The Geneva Conventions and Non-State Armed Groups - Katharine Fortin

Send us a text In this episode, Simon speaks with Dr Katharine Fortin about non-international armed conflicts, focussing on the intersections between IHL, international human rights law and armed non-State actors. Dr Katharine Fortin is a senior lecturer of public international law and human rights at Utrecht University's Netherlands Institute of Human Rights. She is the Editor in Chief of the Netherlands Quarterly of Human Rights and founder of the Armed Groups and International Law blog. Her b...

Jan 15, 202546 minSeason 11Ep. 3

The Geneva Conventions in History - Helen Kinsella and Giovanni Mantilla

Send us a text In this episode, Simon speaks to Professor Helen Kinsella and Associate Professor Giovanni Mantilla, two leading experts on the history and formation of the Geneva Conventions and IHL more generally. They discuss the negotiations leading up the Geneva Conventions and Additional Protocol, exploring some of the political tensions that sits behind the provisions of these key legal texts. This includes how the law treats non-state actors and non-international armed conflict, as well w...

Jan 01, 202557 minSeason 11Ep. 2

A functional approach to the legal review of Autonomous Weapon Systems - webinar recording

Send us a text This episode is a recording of the Asia-Pacific Institute for Law and Security webinar hosted on 21 November 2024 on the functional approach to the legal review of autonomous weapon systems (AWS). AWS are no longer limited to science fiction. Conflicts in the Ukraine and Gaza demonstrate an increased trend toward the use of autonomy in the use of force in armed conflict. This webinar will focus on the legal review obligation under Article 36 of Additional Protocol I to the Geneva ...

Dec 06, 20241 hr 32 min

Regulation of novel technology: Trusted Autonomous Systems: Simon Ng and Clare East

Send us a text In this episode we continue our futures mini-series, and speak with Dr Simon Ng and Ms Clare East about the challenges of adopting novel technology and influencing its regulation. In particular, as the Chief Scientist and Manager of Law, Regulation and Assurance at the Trusted Autonomous Defence Cooperative Research Centre, we hope to tease out the regulatory and engineering challenges associated with advancing adoption of novel military technologies that have been learned through...

Sep 20, 202448 minSeason 10Ep. 11

The Woomera Manual on the International Law of Military Space Operations - Dale Stephens

Send us a text In this episode we hear from Professor Dale Stephens on the long-awaited release of The Woomera Manual on the International Law of Military Space Operations, how it came about, what it is intended to do, and where international law might be headed in relation to military space operations - as well as the challenges in drafting an international law Manual dealing with the law in a highly changing and novel domain. Released in May this year, the Woomera Manual focuses on the law as ...

Jun 05, 202444 minSeason 10Ep. 13

Bounded Autonomy, Meaningful Human Control and Military AI - Jan Maarten Schraagen

Send us a text In this episode we dive into issues of human-machine teaming, with human factors engineer Jan Maarten Schraagen. Having edited the recently released book, Responsible Use of AI in Military Systems, Jan Maarten is an expert on how brittle technologies influence joint cognitive system performance. In this episode, in addition to exploring the book, we explore the outcomes of the 2023 REAIM Summit and what we can hope for from the 2024 Summit; talk about multidisciplinarity in the re...

May 08, 202455 minSeason 10Ep. 12

OpinioJuris Symposium on Military AI and the Law of Armed Conflict - Lena Trabucco

Send us a text Part of the ongoing debate about the lawfulness of autonomy in military systems in the manner in which the technology integrates with and interacts with its human masters. The term Meaningful Human Control (or MHC) has garnered particular relevance in this debate. Today we speak with Dr Lena Trabucco about her upcoming OpinioJuris Symposium on Military AI and the Law of Armed Conflict , co-edited with Dr Magda Packholska , on this issue, as well as her work on legal challenges ass...

Apr 09, 202446 minSeason 10Ep. 8

Article 57, those who plan or decide on attacks and autonomous weapons - Renato Wolf

Send us a text In this episode, Lauren Sanders is speaking with fellow LFW researcher, Renato Wolf about the issue of determining where legal obligations lie in the conduct of attacks, carried out by AWS. In particular they delve into his research about the Art 57 term ‘those who plan or decide attacks’ to see how that maps onto AWS, how that features in the AWS debate and what needs to be thought about in operationalising this legal obligation. Renato Wolf is an international lawyer who served ...

Mar 27, 202451 minSeason 10Ep. 9

Future of War series: Stuart Casey-Maslen and Directed Energy Weapons

Send us a text In this episode, Dr Lauren Sanders speaks with Professor Stuart Casey-Maslen about Directed Energy Weapons. They traverse the existing legal controls on these weapons, and speak about the potential for future regulation of novel uses of energy weapons in armed conflict. This conversation preceded a presentation by Dr Casey-Maslen, Dr Sanders and Dr Altman for UNIDIR, which was a side event to the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons Meeting of States Parties, held in Novembe...

Jan 16, 202436 minSeason 10Ep. 5

Future of War series: Algorithmic Futures with Zena Assaad and Elizabeth Williams

Send us a text As part of our ‘futures’ mini-series, in this episode we are looking specifically at Algorithmic Futures, with hosts of the podcast of the same name: Dr Zena Assaad and Dr Elizabeth Williams, both from ANU. Today we are going to specifically focus on the breadth of the design and uncertainty problem for capabilities augmented by algorithms. Elizabeth T. Williams is an Associate Professor in the School of Engineering at the Australian National University (ANU). She has a PhD in exp...

Dec 21, 202338 minSeason 10Ep. 6

Future of war series: Biological warfare and transparency on the battlefield with Robert Lawless

Send us a text Continuing our future of war series, this episode dives into the legal implications of increasing transparency of the battlespace as a result of technological change; and looks at developments in biological warfare that challenge the long-standing prohibition on biological weapons at international law. We speak with Rob Lawless from the Leiber Institute, at the Westpoint Academy to hear more. Robert Lawless is an Associate Professor in the Department of Law at the United States Mi...

Dec 21, 202345 minSeason 10Ep. 4

Future of War: Artur Gruszczak - The Routledge Handbook on the Future of War

Send us a text In this third episode in our futures mini-series, we continue our scoping of the utility of seeking to predict the future of war; before deep diving into emerging and disruptive technologies. Recorded in late September 2023, we are speaking with Artur Gruszczak about the Future of War, and his recently edited Handbook on the same topic, released by Routledge this September. Artur Gruszczak holds a PhD in Political Science from Jagiellonian University in Krakow. Currently he holds ...

Dec 21, 202344 minSeason 10Ep. 3

Future of War series: David Kilcullen and Ian Langford: the Future of Australia's Defence Strategy and the Indo-Pacific

Send us a text Recorded in early September 2023, this episode continues our futures mini-series, where we speak with Dr Ian Langford and Professor David Killcullen about the future of war in the Indo-Pacific region. In this episode we will be getting a download on what the change in geopolitics in the Indo-Pacific means for Australia, and how that might impact choices relating to technology, acquisitions and their subsequent use and regulation; as well as discussing what the future of proxy warf...

Nov 29, 202353 minSeason 10Ep. 2

Contemporary International Criminal Law Issues - Guilty pleas and the ICC: Charles Adeogun-Phillips Part 2

Send us a text In this episode, we conclude our interview with Dr Charles Adeogun-Phillips, discussing guilty pleas and their development in international criminal law. Dr Charles A. Adeogun-Phillips is an accomplished international lawyer and former lead international prosecutor. He founded the cross-border law firm of Charles Anthony LLP, following a distinguished legal career at the UN, wherein he successfully led teams of international prosecutors in 12 precedent-setting genocide trials befo...

Oct 18, 202351 minSeason 9Ep. 4

Contemporary International Criminal Law Issues - Guilty pleas and the ICC: Charles Adeogun-Phillips

Send us a text In this interview, we are speaking with Dr Charles Adeogun-Phillips about the history of guilty pleas in international criminal law, as an author of a chapter on the same topic, as part of the edited works, Contemporary International Criminal Law Issues - Contributions in Pursuit of Accountability for Africa and the World. The challenges associated with the running of international criminal trials are extensive, and establishing a process for plea bargaining, to satisfactorily add...

Oct 04, 202328 minSeason 9Ep. 3

Contemporary ICL Issues - Sexual and Gender-Based Violence: What Legacy for the New ICC Prosecutor? - Natacha Bracq

Send us a text We continue this international criminal law mini-series by speaking with Natacha Bracq, who wrote a chapter on gender and sexual-based violence in Contemporary International Criminal Law Issues - Contributions in Pursuit of Accountability for Africa and the World , which deals with a range of issues impacting contemporary ICL practice in Africa and around the world. Her chapter, Sexual and Gender-Based Violence: What Legacy for the New ICC Prosecutor? focuses on the International ...

Sep 27, 202333 minSeason 9Ep. 2

Future of War series: Sir Lawrence Freedman - The History of the Future of War (Ukraine Update)

Send us a text We start our futures mini-series by speaking with an eminent military historian on the future of warfare. In this episode we are delighted to be joined by Sir Lawrence Freedman. Recorded in September 2023 he joins us to talk about the future of warfare, having regard to his approach to predicting future war, as outlined in T he Future of War: A History ; and the update to this commentary, taking into account the lessons to be learned from the ongoing conflict in the Ukraine.: Mode...

Sep 20, 202341 minSeason 10Ep. 1

Contemporary International Criminal Law Issues - Contributions in Pursuit of Accountability for Africa and the World: Takeh Sendze

Send us a text We start this international criminal law mini-series by speaking with Mr Takeh Sendze, who is the editor of a recently published book, Contemporary International Criminal Law Issues - Contributions in Pursuit of Accountability for Africa and the World , which deals with a range of issues impacting contemporary ICL practice in Africa and around the world. Takeh B.K. Sendze is a Cameroonian lawyer who received an LL.B. Honours degree from the University of Buea, Cameroon, in 1999 an...

Sep 13, 202330 minSeason 9Ep. 1

BarbieHeimer Special Series - A Manhattan Historian's perspective on Oppenheimer: Chris Griffith (AtomicArchive)

Send us a text In this episode in the BarbieHeimer series, we focus on the history of the Manhattan Project and the accuracy of the Oppenheimer movie. We are speaking with nuclear historian Chris Griffith, about the history, and consequences of the atomic age. As a warning, if you haven’t seen the film we will be talking about the movie’s plot lines and breaking down some of its scenes! Chris is an atomic historian who has created the online archive AtomicArchive , which is aimed at creating con...

Aug 21, 202341 minSeason 8Ep. 5

BarbieHeimer - what the meme (and pop culture) teaches us about nuclear politics: Emily Faux

Send us a text Today we continue our ‘BarbieHeimer’ (or Barbenheimer) series, and are talking today about the meme itself. Is it appropriate to mash these two films together? Is this frivolity making light of the serious impacts of nuclear weapons and the need for a refocus on non-proliferation and disarmament efforts? We speak with a scholar of Visual Politics and Visual Research Methods – Emily Faux - whose doctoral studies focus on what pop culture can tell us about nuclear weapons. Emily is ...

Aug 09, 202348 minSeason 8Ep. 4

BarbieHeimer Special Series - Barbie as a Souvenir of International Law: Emily Crawford and Jacqueline Mowbray

Send us a text In this 'BarbieHeimer' special episode, we return to the plastic doll, to talk about materialism, symbolism and the souvenirs in international law. Emily Crawford and Jacqueline Mowbray walk us through their Souvenirs in International Law exhibit and project; and where Barbie features in their exhibit, as well as introducing us to Doudou Loui s, the Louis Vuitton UNICEF Bear. To submit your own international law souvenir: @atthevanishingpoint on Instagram. Professor Emily Crawford...

Aug 09, 202341 minSeason 8Ep. 3

BarbieHeimer Special Series - Barbie and The Nine Dash Line: Don Rothwell

Send us a text In this, the first of our Special Series on the BarbieHeimer phenomenon, we speak with international law of the sea expert, Professor Don Rothwell to find out what all the controversy was about in relation to the banning of the Barbie movie in Vietnam; the 9-Dash line; and the importance of maps in international law. Professor Donald R Rothwell is one of Australia’s leading experts in International Law with specific focus on the law of the sea; law of the polar regions; use of for...

Aug 09, 202348 minSeason 8Ep. 1

BarbieHeimer Special Series - Oppenheimer missed an opportunity: Gareth Evans

Send us a text In the second in our 'BarbieHeimer' series, we turn to the Oppenheimer movie and speak with world-renowned nuclear disarmament advocate and expert, Gareth Evans, about the opportunity the movie missed in re-energising efforts to the nuclear disarmament cause. We speak with him about the need for Australia to return to its former position of influence in arms control, to focus on a policy of 4D's: - Doctrine of no first use; - De-alerting early launch status of nuclear weapons; - r...

Aug 09, 202341 minSeason 8Ep. 2

AWS, the Alignment problem and regulation - Brendan Walker-Munro and Sam Hartridge

Send us a text In this interview, we are continuing our series on legal review of AWS, and speaking with two of the Law and Future of war research team, about an issue that impacts the design approaches to AWS: the alignment problem. In May 2023, there were reports of an AWS being tested, that turned upon its operator, and eventually cut its communications links so it could go after its originally planned mission... this prompted discussion about the alignment problem with AWS, impacting future ...

Aug 01, 202347 minSeason 7Ep. 5

What does IHL Permit, Prohibit and Require? - Netta Goussac and Laura Bruun

Send us a text In this episode, as part of our series on AWS, legal review & IHL, we speak with Netta Goussac & Laura Bruun about their recently released SIPRI report on IHL & AWS, asking questions about what IHL permits, prohibits & requires in the design, development & use of AWS. Netta Goussac is a Special Counsel with Lexbridge (a legal practice & consultancy specialising in public international law). She has worked as an international lawyer for over a decade, includ...

Jun 20, 202345 minSeason 7Ep. 4

Legal Review of AWS: Decision support systems and technical feasibility of review- Taylor Woodcock and Klaudia Klonowska

Send us a text As part of our new, limited series on the Legal Review of AWS, we speak with two researchers from the Asser Institute on what the legal review obligation means for decision support systems, and what technical challenges exist in approaching the review obligation during the design and development phases in the creation of AWS. Taylor Kate Woodcock is a PhD researcher in public international law at the Asser Institute/University of Amsterdam. Her research, conducted in the context o...

Jun 07, 202339 minSeason 7Ep. 3

AI Literacy for Defence Industry - Zygmunt Szpak

Send us a text The discussion about AI regulation and law has been hampered by a lack of understanding about what AI actually is and what it can do. To date, there is no agreed definition of what constitutes AI; not any likely international consensus, with many states and NGOs adopting their own definitions. This problem is then compounded when it comes to defining (and confining) what constitutes lethal autonomous weapon systems (LAWS). In this episode Dr Lauren Sanders interviews Dr Zygmunt Sz...

May 10, 202343 minSeason 7Ep. 2
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