Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of Launch AMA, a FireSide Chat podcast where we talk to experts from and around the startup industry. And the tips and tricks to maintain that working relationship for your company. Let's go check it out! Welcome everybody to another episode of Launch AMA, I'm your host Sam as always and today I'm joined by Tanis Jorge, welcome Tanis.
Hi, hello everyone. Awesome, this is probably another one of those stories that probably don't get talked about enough but we actually first connected in 2018, 2019 we talked about doing, I think we called them FireSide chats back then.
And then of course they got lost in the shuffle and like so many things have changed since then. But yeah just to get things started, why don't you just introduce yourself a little bit, share a little bit about how you got into technology, how you started becoming a startup founder and obviously multiple times over now.
Yeah, for sure. So yeah, Tanis Jorge, let's see where do I start. I started my first company back in, oh my goodness, 2001 I want to say with one of my best friends from high school, it was right out of high school that my best friend and I Steven offered started our business.
And when we started our first company was in Vancouver and there was very little of a startup scene there, so I can definitely say that there's been a major evolution in the startup scene in Vancouver, but found ourselves we are first business was online credit reports in Canada and ended up staying in that niche industry for 10 years. So we had about three companies together, all of them took about three years to build and then successfully exited each of them, they were all acquired.
And then in 2011, we had this idea to build a identity verification company and Steven headed down to the Silicon Valley to just do research and such and truly it was born. And then we started to plug in plug and play down in Sunnyvale incubator there and just started started researching and determining what we wanted to do with the business and eventually raised funds, which we brought up to Vancouver and that's the early stage. That's the early start.
Let's talk a little bit about the first few companies first because I know obviously you get asked a lot about truly you get a lot about what you're currently doing will definitely get to that as well. But three companies I think were they all in in kind of the verification space, the credit score space.
Yeah, was there a clear difference between you know when you set aside one and you're like I'm starting another. Yeah, you know, it's funny any serial entrepreneur will agree with me. I think when I say that it's very much like being in the mafia. Just when you think you're out, it sucks you back in.
So every time we built and sold a company we just sort of looked at each other and was like hey, that was great. You know, and then you know and behold a couple months later we're like hey, I got another idea. Why don't we try this and and then it progressed into another business and.
So our first one was online credit reporting the second one was a acquisition and a marketing and taking credit bureau national in Canada. And we did their marketing we did their expansion and then orchestrated their acquisition along with our own. And then our other one was in the identity fraud space working with partner called cruel international and they did identity fraud products and so we helped expand them from the US into Canada and Australia.
And also help them to create an identity fraud insurance product here in here in Canada with some of the bureaus and so that was and then they eventually acquired us. So it was these three companies. You know, I'll start off by saying Stephen and I had no interest in identity when we started the.
He and I both we have high school degrees we never went to college, you know, it was just we fell into a niche market and we were very fortunate that the way we built our business allowed us to find new opportunities and sort of leverage the past successes that we had and bring them into the next business. So all of them in the data space identity space. But all very unique in many ways as well.
And now's a good time for some housekeeping just as if you're listening live to this, if you feel like asking kind of a question whether it's about you know, FinTech or security or you know how the space has changed in the last decade. Feel free and then we'll try and get to as many as we can.
Okay, and in between each of these startups like you did it and end up having a break right like what was a plan when you exit each start was kind of like okay I'm going to go and do something else with my life and because it sounds like the plan wasn't like I'm going to go back and do another one right.
Yeah, yeah, and then that was a thing I think that after each company again I think when you start a business that idea of getting up and going and doing that journey again seems kind of almost daunting. But there's something very invigorating about an idea and fortunately for both Stephen and I we can catch each other's enthusiasm very easily.
And when one of us has an idea it almost just sits in your head and again as any entrepreneur you would know when you have an idea in your head and it just doesn't go away.
The only thing you can do is action and so for us it didn't take very long after the previous one to have sort of incoming calls pop in an opportunity start to percolate and we would just grab the next one so it was not intentional it sort of fell into it but once again sometimes that's the unique advantage you have from being in an extremely unique. And niche market that some you don't have to go out searching for business that the opportunities can come to you.
Yeah and and dealing with you know multiple ideas and I think that the concept ideas is really really interesting because because maybe during while you're building a company you might have an idea for either something else or an extension of you know your existing product right.
And by now I feel like you've gotten down to almost like a routine like how do you identify like hey this is something that I want to pursue versus like let's let's let's sit for a little bit longer or maybe hopefully somebody else does it because it's a problem I want to solve I want solve but maybe I don't want to solve it.
Yeah exactly I have one business sitting in the back right now that I would love somebody could do because it needs to be done but you're absolutely right and I'm an ideas person actually that is my super power slash. I definitely can come up with lots of ideas and I think in our circumstances the one that has obviously the most potential sometimes even the lowest hanging fruit allows you to start in on that.
I think for for an early or for an entrepreneur contemplating multiple different ideas I think look at what resources you have available to you if you have capital maybe then you don't necessarily take the easiest idea but but maybe start to consider what might be the best for like a long term business.
At the same time after building four companies I am a huge proponent of the term enjoy the journey it's extremely extremely important to love that trade off that you're doing of building a business and your life so I would give the advice as well what what do you have a passion for what is exciting because the journey of an entrepreneur is very much a roller coaster ride and it's got it's hard. So if you can love what you do and be excited about it then that makes a huge difference.
That's awesome and you know in talking about you know these four startups I think your label has been you know chief operating officer there's probably a couple of COO sitting in the audience right now like from your perspective like what exactly is it that do you think like COO's doing like what makes a good one when it's a great one.
Yeah so it's very interesting and I can speak from like an early stage type as that being a title in the early stage and I think what becomes very interesting about the CO title as a as a founder and startup beginning with a startup is in the very beginning you wear all the hats actually all the founders were all the hats but what ends up happening for the COO is that those rules slowly chip away as the business grows.
And you find yourself having to adapt to the operation side as in like the actual logistics of a company versus in the beginning your kind of operations and marketing your operations in even the finance side of things your operations and all these different pockets but as your company grows now you have a CFO now you have a CMO or even just a VP in these in these markets and I I find as I talk to COO's and I'm going to be a CEO.
To see OOs that run that journey sometimes there's like a identity crisis because you start to see these tasks pulled away and I think a successful COO slowly begins to read to find that overarching operations and is comfortable with releasing maybe even some of the tasks that they enjoy to people who are more specific into that role. So a successful COO is able to adapt to losing these key procedures that they're usually taking care of from the early stage.
And you know in conversations like I often think about like co-founder is getting added I hear a lot about like oh we need to up our marketing so we hire CMO our finances are all out of order because our co-founders kind of just do everything off the Google spreadsheet so let's get a CFO like and then it's like oh we need more technology that we need a technologist we get a CTO like.
We don't talk about the need for for operating officers as much I find anyway at least probably publicly like what are like the the paint ones that you know when a when a team is looking at could be the founding team could be a small team. That they're like hey like it's time we kind of feel this position that we didn't think we needed or we didn't know we needed.
So we had the position we have the incredible Zach Cohen who took over for me is still at basically today the COO and I think one of the key pieces of finding that person is understanding the importance of that person who can really walk alongside the CEO.
So that relationship is very similar in many ways to a co-foundership because they really need to complement each other that said I think there's also something to consider which is the personality type of the CEO and again the needs of the business maybe you know an operations person isn't that what you need that you do need someone more niche and sort of put an overarching when do you need a COO I think it's I think it is based on on the business.
And what the needs are of the company at that time because everything everything is is different every business is different. Yeah and I'm not I'm not sure if you've experienced this personally or maybe maybe companies you've advised or whatnot right but if we take that kind of token starting group of of you know having having a CEO having or sorry having someone that that does sales or business whatever we want to call it.
And then we obviously take take someone who does the technology and then the third one the token team is that designer like how do you how do you are you seeing people put those roles and what are some of the what are some of the maybe small pieces of advice that as you know you're you're double teaming tasks right trying to make sure that the company is taking care of.
That you would recommend to folks who don't have a dedicated person to operations yeah so it depends I think in the early stage of a business you have to be very very confident that the people that you bring on board flourish and an early stage business we've been obviously have this for a really long time and.
Eventually what came to me was to really when in the interview process is to really do a deep dive into what what corporate culture does this person fit better into and I think while your team is small say under 50 or so you really do need to have people who flourish in the idea multiple hats or at least really engaging in different pieces of the business and so when you're building your team out letting them know that they they're going to get to have their hand.
And various different pieces of the business so they're not going oh I thought I was just going to do this or I thought this was exclusively my role and I find when those kind of people are put in that position they flounder and it and it doesn't work so I think the ideology of the people that you hire in those early stages they really need and a lot of times people say I want to work in a startup and then they get to start up and they're like oh yeah no this is not me so you really do have to do that.
You really do have to really make sure that they're going to infllurish in that which is meaning willing to go that extra mile and and learn learn everything and not just a super niche. And then I mean you're on your fifth time doing this now did you find that as you start each company the way you hire the type of people that you want to work around like has that evolved at all.
Yeah well yes and no I mean I think for Steven and Steven and I we both really loved working with people that we liked and I almost to a fault I think sometimes we we we we friend our team and sometimes that becomes a really really tricky dynamic. As the founders and then having your team so that's small in the beginning you're in the in the weeds together and you're in the journey together by that the same time there is that boss and and employee.
Yeah relationship which can be a little tricky so I think for me anyways over the years I've learned to create those boundaries a little bit. And and not be so I mean I still love my my team but I do recognize that sometimes it can't go to too friendly when you got to talk business or you have to hold somebody accountable for something if it's too friendly that can be a really difficult conversation so yeah something to keep in mind to.
Yeah for sure for sure and and you know focusing like on truly just a little bit obviously when when like I've listened to other talks you talked about like you did say like after three you are like I'm done like I want I want a longer break like not the same type of break you had before like what kind of drew you back once more was it just you know like Steven's pitch or like what was it yeah so actually after the three as I we always joke that we gave our 20 20s to entrepreneurship so.
For the my entire 20s I was building companies and at the end of that I decided that I wanted to start a family and so I started and I had two kids under two wins Steven approached me again and said hey this idea that we had I want to I want to go to Silicon Valley when I want to grow it do you want
to go back and and and I really had an anticipated being in back in a business again but at the same time I thought I could be lightly involved but you know within about a year or so we got traction and I I didn't want to I didn't want to I knew
that I could support him in that and you know being able to raise our first round and seeing the possibilities yeah I just I couldn't miss the opportunity so it was difficult you know a two kids under two and starting a track company was a very different experience then with our
previous businesses and and such but yeah we pushed through yeah I think we definitely do have some parents in the audience as well so I think they can relate to that talking about you know Steven going down to the valley and things like that was that kind of it sounds like you were were starting kind of like obviously you built multiple six businesses in the past the network was already forming or form right I know I'm very cognizant of of you know our audience currently like a lot of them are
coming to Canada for the first time they're trying to kind of rebuild their network and they're trying to find their footing to build their own startups what whatever level success they've had in the past right like what recommendations or or advice to have for those that are kind of trying to to branch out especially like you know the types of businesses you're doing B to B you're doing B to E these are not easy networks to just walk and be
like hey want to buy my stuff you know those things they time like what kind of recommendation do you have for those folks that are kind of trying to enter what could be the Canadian market could be the American market or could be a foreign market in terms of these deeper deeper sales cycles and things like that.
Yeah so so ultimately there's a fine line between building a network and wasting time and I think anybody who wants to be intentional I mean Vancouver does have a good startup scene there is a lot of opportunities to get involved but my suggestion to everyone is no matter what you do when it comes to building that network you have to be extremely intentional and and almost to a level of of unfeeling uncomfortable doing it
which means being very upfront and asking asking for assistance and explaining why you're here I am here today because I am looking for this do you have do you have a recommendation and not just going to an event or approaching somebody and just having a conversation hoping something will come out of it and just you'll you'll get their phone number you have a great report it's like no you have that moment in front of them that is where you say I'm
looking for this do can you help me with that and I think the cool thing about the tech industry is that we do understand the importance of I'll scratch your back you scratch mine you know if we all help each other everybody wins so being bold in those moments of talking to people is essential otherwise you can really waste your time in some of these networking places but at the same time they could be excellent positions to define what you're looking for whatever within your business.
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Yeah and do you find that you know that now we're getting kind of into the weeds and the gritty like even meeting for the first time like let's say you bumped into you know somebody that's listening to the audience now and added at a meetup or something like that like do you find that those ads are coming out immediately and how is that received I guess from your perspective.
Yeah again depends on where you're at if you're in a network meeting it's okay to just jump right into it and go so why are you guys here I'll tell you why I'm here I'm here because I'm looking for you know someone for my executive role or I'm here to find a supplier and but again having that
reciprocity in there it isn't taken as so much like whoa like what are you what are you trying to get out of me I think that is a big piece of it and it's okay but if it isn't asked there's a couple things making sure that you respect people's time if I went for every coffee and or took
every phone call that someone asked me hey I'd love to pick your brain I yeah it would be a full-time job and respecting that sometimes people don't have that capacity to really assist you so you know even just asking the question I'm just going to send you an email here's my question answer it don't get to the point those are great ways if you needed to to jump in. And you know on behalf of all the people we definitely appreciate you you answering my email
here. It's okay yeah yeah and no I think it's really good that we're kind of getting practical about this right because I think we like even for me like I definitely tell our entrepreneurs like you know go out network meet people and stuff but like I think I want to reiterate what you're
saying is like before you're going before you even choosing which events to go to like what is your objective what is your goal what do you need like even write that down if you need to and the other side of it that that I kind of you know read between the line is like what do you have
to offer right like walking forward into a networking event with both armed with both those things allows you to have meaningful conversations it sounds like yeah networking is not showing up at event drinking beer and just hanging out that's not networking that's a social event
which is fine but networking is actually intentionally seeking what you need and being there exactly like you said Sam there to help perfect perfect and I think one more thing I want to touch on just whether it's truly or any of your other businesses because obviously you you you you exited at some
point in all of them right like how did you know it was time to leave for lack of a better term right whether it's acquisition or something else like what goes into decision making at the end of a certain journey yeah I think for us it was knowing knowing ourselves the best so our first
three businesses we understood that we were very good at getting businesses from ideation to that next to that stage launching it getting it up and going we knew we did that extremely well and so that was sort of we even intentionally from the from the very minute I get this advice sometimes to a lot of entrepreneurs is just you know know your exit ahead of time what is your goal because you make decisions on your business based on that decision at the end so sometimes it's important
to understand your exit before you even begin so that would be one thing so we knew we did that really well when truly it came along we intentionally decided that we wanted a business that was going to go longer than three years that we were going to be able to see into these higher levels and so
that was the reason why we didn't choose to be acquired very early on or take early offers which truly you got very early and we just were like no not interested so that was a key piece and then for me I understood that I again was I was good in that early stage and my lifestyle
at the time also was a component that made me decide what do I want to do and as the founder of co founder of a company that was growing exponentially I was really torn between my desire to be you know able to be around with my kids and then grow my family and invest in them
and then also be able to be a hundred percent in my business and I just knew that I wasn't successfully doing both and I'm kind of one of those people who has to be like awesome at everything and when I wasn't feeling that I was like this is I'm not I'm not the best person for this role anymore and so that was where I was around that time that we decided that you know what let's find someone who can step in and take your place.
And I want to catch on to something you said a little bit earlier about you know having an exit plan even as you're building like knowing a lot of founders personally especially maybe if it's your kind of your first baby for lack of a better term like it almost feels this in genuine to be like
well I haven't even built this like why am I planning to leave it right and I feel like some of some of them may feel like that hinders their ability to build something great if they're already looking for the exit right yeah how do you kind of help founders work around that concept
and make it be a practical thing that that maybe it's investors are looking for could be even your customers who are looking for it because they want to make sure that this thing scales and grows beyond you and is not dependent on just the founders what kind of advice would you give for those folks that are kind of stuck in that circle. Yeah so I think early on sometimes entrepreneurs feel like they have a crystal ball.
They feel like they've built this business or they're building this business and they seem to think they know exactly where it's going to go. You know this is where it's going to be and I can assure you that there are tons of twists and turns and at times you don't know what's going to happen to your business and so I think having an exit is in mind especially as you're launching a business two to three years into it you start to know
first off your own capabilities of growing it and scaling it to yourself but also what are the capabilities of the business and what do you want to do do you want to try and raise the money necessary to get it to that next stage or is this a better time to exit now and give that off to another company that can then take it and grow it.
So I think it's like an insurance policy always identifying down the road where you can take an off ramp is there's nothing wrong with it it's preparation really and if you can be slightly prepared before these events you're way better off.
So it's not really a cop out it's not a selling out either it's really just being prepared for whatever is going to come your way in the future and we can't be naive as entrepreneurs thinking automatically everything's going to go the direction that we wanted to. It's important to be ready for whatever and then that way if the opportunity arises you can grab it quickly and sometimes opportunity has to be grabbed quickly or you miss it so you might as well you might as well prepare ahead of time.
And like for you you've got the last four businesses with the same co founder were those conversations had before you'd the start of each one and how did those kind of go.
Yeah we actually did we talked about for each of our businesses we had a potential acquire in mind and then or the journey that we wanted and we would bring that up especially with truly where we would get offers you know one two three well practically every year we would have some offer of something and you know we didn't like I said before we didn't even really discuss it because we both were on the same page and this is a key piece especially if you're in a partnership.
If one partner has a vision for the company and they don't vocalize that and the other one thinks the company is going the other direction you will get friction and conflict so it is actually very essential that if you're in a partnership that you're on the same page because again you don't know where your business will go and those are hard discussions if you're not on the same page.
And beyond the co-founders like was this known to your staff your early team members maybe your later team members as well or like what's the communication between there in terms of the vision. No yeah we never we never really because even even preparing for an acquisition I mean that's a crystal ball as well you don't know if anyone's going to do it.
It's really more about like they'll give our very first company as an example we recognize that if we built our business in a way that was complimentary to theirs that an acquisition would be very seamless. And so we designed our business in a way that we knew it would complement one or two or three companies that we had suggest thought to ourselves could be acquirers. And it was our first rodeo we were happy with a quick exit. And so we built our business from day one to day one.
And so that is one reason why you would want to do that. But with truly you we built it very differently. We didn't have that early acquisition in mind. So we were taking longer term we were making longer term decisions. We weren't necessarily making decisions that we're going to pay off in the first couple months. It was it was decisions that we're going to pay three four five six seven years down the road. So that's why it's essential to have that in mind.
And we never communicated it with our team because we didn't know what was going to come out. But it was always in the back of our mind. And then going back to Stephen again four businesses with the same person. What have you learned maybe about yourself and about your partnership in general? Yeah. So I mean, I think the crops of our success was our partnership as well. Stephen is an incredible business person.
He has an incredible ability to cast vision and and get people excited and communicate what it is that the business is attempting to do. He's also excellent at sort of that dog on a bone execution plan. This is how we're going to get it done. It's very good at that. But complimentary traits and that is I think for me, I'm able to see multiple possibilities in a moment. And we're able to take his like head down, get something done in my, ooh, but let's have this and let's do that.
And it was complimentary. And so when I would advise co-founderships that were struggling, it became very, I realized very quickly that it was extremely important that partners are united. Because you often see businesses fail when the partnerships fail. And so that was kind of what I learned as I started to see that Stephen and I were in Nigma. And I thought everybody had great partnership. And then to find out, oh, no, that's totally not the case. It's actually highly irregular.
So yeah, that was surprising to me. Yeah. And it sounds like you're your perspective of going back and looking at that relationship for the last decade, I have led you to now your new adventure, right? With co-founders hub, what's the motivation behind that? And like, what is it? We haven't talked about it now. We're half an hour in.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So when I mentioned, I advised, I advised a lot of co-founders on their partnership. That was one of the main things that people would approach me on. And as I started to look, you know, be internal about why Stephen and I succeeded and then started to interview a lot of other co-founders. I realized not a lot of partnerships were suffering secretly.
But anybody who's in a partnership knows there's very few people that you can talk to if you're having struggles in your partnership. You can't talk to investors because that'll spook them. You can't talk to your employees because that's not. So there's a lot of internalizing that happens when you're struggling. And I realized there's an absence of resources or partners, especially coming from the perspective of people who have done it before.
There's a lot of academics. There's a lot of coaches. There's a lot of people like in that world that give advice, but to actually come to founders with the advice and the wisdom of others who have gone before. I figured that was extremely important. So I wrote the book, the co-founders handbook. It takes people through from the very beginning question, which is, should I even get a co-founder and it walks them through the process of what to look for.
How to vet a partner, how to secure them legally, and then how to struggle or how to not struggle in a partnership instead, how to communicate, how to keep that partnership strong. And so the book starts there. And then the hub is actually a platform with resources and tools that will be providing to co-founders to help them really come alongside them to support and grow their partnership. And without giving too much of the book away, I'd love to explore a little bit of some of those topics.
I didn't link it down for those folks and we'll make sure to have it in the show notes as well. But I guess first of all, for the solo founders, I know because we've been talking a lot about co-founders about partnerships. What is the impetus for like, hey, I can actually do this for myself. And I feel like you might have advised some solo founders that have gotten quite well for themselves.
Like, what, like, what would inspire, what are the needs that are like, hey, I actually need to go out and find somebody to have a partnership with. Yeah. So one is personality style. And you know, assessing who you are as a person. Do you play well in the sandbox? That's the first thing that I would question is, you know, looking back on who you are, who you are in school, who you are in projects and work. You know, do you work well with somebody else? I flourish with somebody.
Actually, I love bouncing off ideas with someone and having that really authentic conversation and being open to opinions and being part of that. But I know a lot of people who don't that actually really work better, sort of carrying the stick and running it with them on their own.
And then, the personality is number one. And the number two, it really depends on your business model. And what, what you can wrap around you as a team. If you already have say a key person who maybe doesn't need to be co founded material, but they're an excellent employee in some way.
And it depends on your business. If, if, if you're not building something that you need that person beside you with, then, then go ahead and not, but I will note that there are a percentage of investors who will not invest in a solo printer.
I've never known an entrepreneur or sorry, an investor that says, I don't invest in teams, but I have met investors that say I don't even pick up the phone for a solo entrepreneur. So that's something to keep in mind as well. If your intention is to raise money, you will shrink the pool with which you can access funds.
And I love that we're going around circle about this because it goes back to, you know, what you said, you know, 20 minutes ago, right? Like, if you have that plan going in, like, hey, I don't need to raise money. Then maybe that isn't something you need to be concerned about. And of course, the reverse works as well. And so with, with the co-founders hub, like, you're working with a lot of different entrepreneurs.
Sometimes, are you working with the team together? Is it usually like, okay, one of the one of the founders has, has issues that they want to run through? And they're kind of going on their own and being like, oh, my, my CEO does this. They don't do that. Like, how does that work? Yeah. So I have a very fun search that people can do. If you go to Google search and you type in, my business partner is, and you let auto fill at, you know, put, put its responses in.
It helps you to realize that a partnership isn't easy. And so oftentimes, I am usually approached by two types of people. The first one, who's decided, I need a co-founder and I need to know what to look for and where, or where you recommend I find one, et cetera. And then the usually the other one is, I'm, I'm having issues with my co-founder, either help me figure it out or help me get out of this partnership.
So, again, I talk to both together or sometimes by themselves. But it is often times I'm dealing with an issue. How do you recommend that I fix it? And like, to you, as people are looking to add co-founders, the first part of what you were saying. Like, I guess, first of all, what general advice would you have for them? Because I get that question a lot too.
Like, where can a final co-founder were, the speed dating things, like, you know, and we've, we've done our part in trying to create events like that in the past as well. Right? Like, there's, there's mixed, there's mixed results. But like, obviously, we're not defined by them because like, I think a lot of us compare it to trying to find, find a life partner or something like that.
Right? Like, in many ways, it's, it's meant to be serendipitous. It's not like, there's a formula like I type in this and then I get that. So, so I guess what general advice would you have for them? But also, like, I think trying to differentiate like, do I need another co-founder or do I need just like a really skilled early employee? Like, how would you kind of break those things? I guess there's two part question.
Yeah. So the first thing is I tell people, if you want to know what kind of co-founder you need, you need to do a very, very, very deep dive into who you are, what you bring to the table and what your goals and plans are for the business. And what does your business need? So are you going to need a co founder who's going to bring capital along with you? Are you going to need a co founder who can work 80 hours a week on this? Or are you open to somebody who can keep their job?
Those three things are big pieces that you'll come across when you're vetting people is somewhat a lot of times people just don't have the ability to work for free for three years while you build a business with new, you know, with no income.
So you need to understand a lot of these key components and at the co founders how we have a self assessment, which really walks people through that. It's launching in the next two months or so, but that will be that key components you can identify what you need and that co founder.
And then where you find co founders again, this kind of goes back to the first question is you need to be bold. Don't underestimate your network and the network of the network, the network of the people that you have in your network. So that means going out to three levels of influence and saying, here's what I'm looking for. Do you know anybody and not to me from what I've spoken to when people are from scratch looking for co founder.
That is a key piece even putting it up on LinkedIn. Hey, listen, I'm looking for a co founder. But you've got to list the traits or else you get any Tom Dick and Harry coming out of the woodwork. So you need to say I'm looking for some of this skill set who can give a capital injection of this amount who is able to give full time.
They have to be in this geographical location and have this expertise that narrows it down and you would be surprised how many people are able to help you out with that. That's awesome. And now now kind of the second thing, like for people who are already working with the group of co founders, maybe, maybe sometimes it's a family business or in your case, in your case, it is your best friend.
Like what are some things that you would suggest on improving that working relationship again based on your own experience or other founders that you've working. Yeah, so the most important thing is to be extremely transparent and authentic with one another. You have to be extremely vulnerable and be willing to share and talk about everything that is bothering you is that you have as an idea.
And it just basically have to be extremely transparent. So I talk about communicating expectations. A lot of times when partnerships are failing, I often hear the term, I thought they were going to I expected them this they I I anticipated this was or they didn't follow through the way I thought they would.
And these are all expectations that we have in our head and then when our partner doesn't actually do them, we're either resentful or frustrated or angry. And so it's extremely important to constantly be communicating.
So intentionality is the most important it your partnership is not like a set it and forget it relationship. You need to be working on it daily, weekly, monthly, annually, you need to be getting together and constantly making sure that there's nothing that you're necessarily throwing under the rug and that you're always on the same page.
That's the most important piece communication is essential can just leave it to the face to be a great relationship. It won't it will it will go sideways. There's a lot of dynamics and a co founder partnership. Personal, you know, professional everything is involved. So you got to you got to stay on top of that the strength of that partnership.
I just can't get it on my mind as you're just talking about this like I could replace the title of this podcast with marriage counseling and it fit in justice as well, right. But it's true, right? Like it's it's very similar in that respect. I'll tell you what the difference is. And I always thought of it as a marriage, but I fit then I figured out what the one thing is that's different.
And you could almost call a partnership like a polygamist marriage and with the with the business being the focus and then the co founders are like the they're the sister wives or whatever. It's it the business is the key and the founders need to run every through thing through what is the most important thing for the business. We've got to make our relationship work. But if we run everything through the filter of what is best for the business.
That is what the different marriage you've got to be like what's the best for each other. But in this case, you have to say what is the best for the business and there's a good thing about that too. And that is is a depersonalizes decisions that you have to make in your business. So I often throw out because this happens is people say, oh, I want my kid or my wife or my husband to work in the business.
And it's like, okay, that's what you want. And I want to support you. But what is the best thing for the business? Are they the right person for the role? Does that change the dynamic of our culture? Does that change the dynamic of our partnership if you bring these people in? And so when you do that.
And if everyone's mature, then they could go, oh, yeah, you're right. This probably isn't the best decision for the company. And that's how you can depersonalize some of these hard decisions you got to make in business. It's amazing. One of the last things you wrote you mentioned there was if everyone is mature. And you know, that kind of leads me to my last question kind of on the subject is for co-founder relationships that maybe are not the not optimal, let's say.
The example that comes in mind and spoiler as we're kind of recording this, the blackberry movies coming out in a couple weeks and and one of the big storylines and one of the plotlines in the movie is, you know, blackberry actually started with three founders. But we only know about two of them really, right, from the last 10 years. And there's a falling out. And I guess I don't want to spoil the whole movie. I guess.
But, but like for those relationships that aren't working out, like what what advice to have for them for like, hey, let's give this another shot versus like, let's let's be mature about it. Let's part ways. Like how how do you walk folks through that process? I guess from a basic level.
Yeah, so maturity is important from the day one. So I find sometimes when partnerships are really struggling, you can't it's hard to just say, hey, you know, let's just be cool about this. Sometimes you actually have to take major action. So the first thing that I would tell people to do is to find a mediator.
There are professionals out there who can come in and help you sort out the issues that you're having in your partnership. One recommendation I even have if you're in the early stage, find an advisor who will go along with you on your journey. And your only job is to support you as a foundation. And they come in, you use them as a sounding board. They're there to they've no vested interest in the company at all. And they're just there to be that sounding board. It's really, really important.
The next thing to do if you feel like the partnership is definitely going to go sideways, highly recommend you get a lawyer. You need to review your partnership agreement. You have to find out what it is you agreed on in the beginning.
So sitting with a lawyer and accountant allows you to really understand your options and how to prepare for it. So if you are a majority founder, you're going to make different decisions than if you're a minority founder when it comes to exiting a partnership. So you really have to nail down and you have to take this seriously.
And then when you're in a partnership with somebody, you have to understand 65% of partnerships or businesses will fail because of issues between the partners. So your insurance policy is making sure that that partnership and that relationship goes well when it goes sideways, you have a lot to lose.
So first thing you want to do is make sure you do the right things to find the right co founder, make sure you do the right things to stay strong in a partnership. But when it goes sideways, you have to make sure you do the right things to protect yourself and your business because when a partnership fails, the business often follows, which means you will lose your investment.
So you lose the time you put in and it can be a big disaster. So put the money and effort into all the work you need to do to shore up what you need to do to protect yourself and your business. That's amazing. And I'm shocked by that 65% number. Yeah, I feel like the solo solo founders are saying, see, see. You know what, there's definitely advantages to being a sole printer, but I also, I will say as well, is that when it works, it multiplies your effort 10 times as well.
So you also need to anticipate that having somebody who's following that vision with you, it isn't just doubling your success rate. You really are adding a multiple to your ability to execute whatever it is you're trying to do.
For sure, for sure. And as we're kind of just wrapping up here, like what I'm currently curious about now is like, how can people take part in what you're doing with with co founders hub? Like, is there are there public forums? Is it is it only clientele you're working with? Like, how does that work?
Yeah. So right now the co founders hub were in the midst of getting ready to launch our two master classes. The first one is for people in the very early stage, looking for a co founder, wondering what I should be looking for.
We do have that self assessment, which is of course that's coming. Then we have what we call discovery session discovery session is about 70 to 80 different questions that you need to have with your co founder and discuss document plan for and go through and then print it off and sign it.
Basically 70 80 of the questions that will buy step all the risks that you'll have in your partnership. So it's an incredible product for that. We also have our 90 day co founder challenge and basically what that does is it's the tools of things to think about action steps to take that help you to on a daily or weekly basis to improve your partnership and ensure it stays strong.
These products that are coming. We're also doing for Vancouver startup week. We're going to be doing a meet your co founder event where we're bringing in both technical co founders, people looking to join other businesses and people who are looking for co founder. So we have that coming up.
We'll also be doing events as well. So you're catching us at the like pre launch stage for a lot of this stuff that people can go on and like put their name in to be notified when those are launching. But right now the co founder's handbook is available.
If you're in a partnership. I'm not just saying this, but it is genuinely one of the best insurance policies because it'll guide you through whatever stage you're going through and help protect you so that you don't become that statistic at the end. That's awesome. That's amazing. So well, again, we'll make sure to leave the proper links in our Slack channel. If you're a member here that's listening to this live.
We'll make sure you get every opportunity to get access to that. Now if someone's listening to this whether whether on the recording later or they're here right now and they want to connect with you. How would you reckon what's the best way for them to do that? Yeah, the first the best way would be to follow and link LinkedIn message me on LinkedIn. I'm happy to just mention that you're on your on the AMA with launch and I will answer any questions that you might have about partnerships.
So you can do that on LinkedIn at tennis George JORGE and then I'm on Instagram as well. That's easier as well. So at the co founders hub. And on both of those channels is the best way. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time, tennis. I know I know like I'm looking at your your your window. It looks beautiful. So I'm sure you want to get back to your kids and what not. So really appreciate you spending time here with us.
So again, on behalf of all our entrepreneurs, thank you for for the time that you've been spending here and a lot of this was very valuable. And for those that again that are listening on the recording, make sure you're subscribing. And if you want to become a member, just go to launch academy.ca slash launch pad. And we'll be back again with more very, very soon. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it. Take care everyone. Bye. Bye.
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