Chisme: Intergenerational Bonding Over Gossip

Dear let you know USA listener.

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Well, Hello, Hello, Hello, misan Halita's cheesebabe.

I hope you're ready and rested for your next assignment.

Of course, we were literally born ready for this.

Well that's good to know, because I think this Cheesemay conversation is going to take.

Us on a wild cry.

All right, Miss Gueida's Elisa and Monica, you are the angels of cheeseme a la Charlie's Angels.

Now, off you go, my little angels of cheese May. From Futuro Media. It's Latino USA. I'm marieo Hosa.

Today Cheese Me a month's long investigation into the ancestral language of gossom, why we love cheese May, why we're ashamed of it, and why we won't stop making cheese May anyway. Now we're gonna go on an exploration of an ancient language that is actually very familiar to many of you. Cheese Me producers Monica Morales Garcia and Elisa Mayena dug up the history of cheeseme and found an essential part of their identities. Here's the story which we

I think it has to do with it.

Jeez me, how did you know?

Well, it's the only thing that you girls have been talking about, is it? Cheees Me?

Well, it all started seven months ago on our first day as Latina USA fellows. It was after our first team meeting, and because we're working remotely, I'm in southern California, Elisa is in Miami. We jumped on a Google meet and almost immediately we began cheese manimal, or how we say in English gossiping.

We realized that we were kindred spirits and we immediately felt comfortable with each other because we felt like we were taking a risk.

A risk you mean by talking to each other.

Yes, a risk to talk about Souda. What else?

Oh?

Because it was clearly a cheese man, Okay, I mean.

It's just something that we fell into without even trying. So there we are, We're feeling bonded, we're feeling connected, and then.

I started to feel guilty.

I think it has something to do with the fact that I was raised Catholic. I went to Catholic school for fourteen years, so I was taught from a very early age that gossip is harmful.

And a moral But I still did it all the time.

Elisa Maria, Can I be brave yet controversial?

Obviously?

Okay, I didn't.

Feel that guilty. Chease me on the about our coworkers. Oh, we didn't say anything bad about them. With some context, I was a cousin in the family that had a bunch of cheese may and me being me, I've always handled those situations by doubling down. So if someone was trying to make some judgment and was like, I know, you moved out to be with your boyfriend, I would be like, yeah, and a girlfriend too, Like if they wanted the sun level, I was going to give it.

To that.

So, Maria, what is your relationship to cheesse me.

I think, like you, I kind of love it chees me. I have very specific memories about sitting with my mom in the back of our green station wagon with all six of us driving to Mexico every year from Chicago in the middle of winter, and the closer we got to Mexico, the closer it was going to be the moment when we could say buen o, mamma, ill chees me.

Hmm. What I'm hearing is that cheese me is a little bit more complicated than we realize it is.

I think cheese may is complicated.

Even though cheeseman, though comes so naturally to us, we've actually been struggling to define cheese may. So we wanted to ask you, Mariya, how would you define cheese may.

Well if you had to translate it the simplest ways to say, it's gossip. But there's something about cheesemay which is about storytelling. It's something that is very present in our reality as Latinos and Latinas in the United States, and I think that's the way we're looking at it, or at least that's the way I think you're.

Going to be looking at it in this conversation.

Wow, you've literally read our minds.

I mean, it's hard to define because cheese may can mean different things to different people in different contexts. But if we're thinking about cheese may on a very basic level, it's talking about someone in their absence. So you're sharing information that you don't necessarily know to be true.

But the tea is just too hot free to not spill immediately.

In that first conversation we had, we were already asking all those questions, is it good?

Is it bad?

How can it be so fun when it's so bad? And is cheese me the same as rumor?

We could already feel that as Latina's gossip isn't just gossip, it's an identity, it's a way of life.

Well, to get some answers to some of our questions, we need hardcore data. So in the name of Cheesema science, we're conducting an experiment where we create achiemy and see how far it'll spread a cheese may about.

You, Mania me O, Maria was in the DR for so long because she was filming a movie with Linn Men Mel Miranda, and she's going to be the next star, like a sexy movie Hustlers or something.

What I thought you were gonna say was Maria was in the Dominican Republic so long. We think she just had a baby. Okay, Well, I want to hear the other ideas.

We didn't have any other ideas.

Those were all of our ideas.

But I think I have something, Madia. So you know how you have this big, bouncy, voluminous hair.

Yes, it's all about the hair and the hoops.

Yes, so if we see it, it's always done up. But if we don't see it, it's always wrapped up in a turmine. So how about we make people believe that your big bouncy locks actually don't belong to you.

It's not your real hair. It's a wig.

You know.

I have my tricks as to how I make it voluminous, but I could see how that could potentially work.

Mm hmm.

So this is what we're gonna do. Since we have more questions and answers, I think we're gonna go on a little bit of a cheese macquest, and to do that, we're gonna have to speak to some cheesema experts from different fields to find out why cheese met is so central to our lives as a latinas.

And finally, we're gonna get a little bit sneaky and talk to the team to see if this wig cheese met lights up.

Like Firela when Monica, So, you have your assignment. You've pried a lot out of me regarding cheesemas so far, and I'm very intrigada.

I'm using the cheese my voice.

I'm very intrigued about what you're gonna come up with in your journey into a cheese me. So off you go and I'll see you on the other side, Mama.

When we first set off on our cheese mac quest, Monica and I realize that we had something else in common. We're both huge fans of The Real Housewives.

Gus, I've heard that.

And soone did this table has been talking about how her bead you didn't come as a friend at all.

You're done.

So It's a reality TV franchise on Bravo that follows the everyday lives of wealthy women from different areas, So think lots of dinner parties, workout classes, international vacations, shopping trips obviously, but of course they look really good and really expensive, very expensive.

And while Lisa and I were watching the new season of The Real Housewives of Miami What are you talking about?

On You Know It?

We had an epiphany.

We thought maybe we love housewives because chiefment is everything on the show. We realized it's used as a narrative device, so it creates storylines and builds so much tension that a screaming match is the most appropriate form of conflict resolution.

So we set up a conversation with two Real Housewives of Miami, Marisol Patton and Alexia Chevarria.

So today starring on this show is my best friend Alexi Cheria Santra Mohito, carrier of the Real Housewives of Miami.

Thank you for that beautiful introduction, And on the other side we have my best friend Marisol.

We want to set the scene really quick. Marisola is laying on her couch like horizontally with a beat face and a high pony, and Alexia is sitting in the living room of her palatial two story penthouse with a beach view.

There have only been a few latinas across the Real Housewives franchise, except on the Real Housewives of Miami, and as we were watching the show, it became obvious that there were parallels between how Shei's mosas and how housewives are perceived, as they're scene as tacky, simple minded and flamboyant.

Should I introduce you as.

No know, because the only thing that we are not is jim Moosa.

I know about that because we live in Miami and pet Centro exactly I like to call it. We share information, yes, and when it's amongst us good friends, it's not cheesemay, It's just information and we need to be educated.

So do you think that Latina women have a reputation of gossiping more than non Latinas.

I know they're all terrible, I know, But she's asking if you think they have a reputation.

I think yes.

I think we're stereotyped because it comes from history, like from.

Back in the day, more than gring us.

Yea.

At the end of the day, if you're a woman, you're a chimosa. Oh wait, but there's meg. I know some men get so much emoso. It's crazy, Like when there's a guy that's such amoso, like be careful, like they're like the worst.

They are the worst. So why do you think that cheese may is so addicting?

I think it's a mindless conversation. It's the easiest conversation for anyone to have. You're not talking about politics, religion. You don't have to be educated to chimyad. Anybody across the board can make a comment about somebody else and another person will jump in and they get into it, right, you know, all so white.

It's so easy because you're not talking.

Or chimiando about yourself.

You're doing about somebody else.

So it's so easy to talk about somebody you don't even know.

That's why we all do it.

I'm staying quiet.

Stop saying we all do it like you're waiting for me to jump in.

Haha.

Alexia's family drama was carrying this last season.

Her now husband Todd.

Who she said is the first gringo she's ever kissed, by the way, had a huge blowout with her son.

What I say that you're a loser, Yeah, but you're gonna wind up in jail.

Yeah, yeah, you.

Don't get Alexias said herself that this fight was the worst moment in her life, and it's out there for anyone in the world to watch and form an opinion about.

Alexia.

You've been a reality TV star and a public figure for over a decade now. You could say that part of your job is to humiliate yourself on TV because you're exposing your real life drama as plot points.

What was that like this last season?

For me? It hasn't been humiliating at all. As a matter of fact, I think it's been therapeutic and healing because these were cheesemads that were always said about me and my family. And now I'm like, you know what, guys, it's my story, not a chieve man anymore. Like this is what it is. This is my time now to say it how it is and share it with the world and hopefully me being an inspiration for people not to be ashamed, to be proud of who you are and of your life experiences and to.

Learn from them.

And you know what, sometimes you got to put those cheesements to rest.

You can't let other people control your achievement.

Right, Alexia, Right exactly, that's your story.

So there's something else we wanted to ask you about. We wanted it to come to you for some professional advice.

Yes, oh, because we're the expert chiemosas that you have to come to us.

We have a lot of experience in get the demo, so yes, tell us.

How can we help you? So we started a cheese may about.

Our boss that her hair isn't her real hair, it's a wig.

A wig.

That's boring, Feluca, that's not a good one. Why do you say she has like a fake leg or something? Does she wear a lot of pants?

Well?

Trying to keep their job.

Remember it's their boss.

Okay, it depends, you know, the achievement depends on who the person is. But this is like their boss, so they can't be you know, they can't take it overboardon.

I don't know. You got to come up with something more exciting than a peluga.

Oh my god, I would never let.

Me tell you something.

The best achievement, I think is when you look someone in the eyes and you sound convincing.

Ooh, you sound like an expert Marazol. And then you didn't want me to call you the g mossa.

I just play one on TV.

Coming up on Latino USA, our cheesemay Angels continued their investigation into how gossip has shaped their identity as Latinas and the steaks surrounding their cheeseme start to build as they travel further into a Chice Moosas universe.

Stay with us, not the bays.

Hey, We're back and before the break, producers Monica Morales Garcia and Elisa Bayena launched their quest to understand the significance of cheese ma or gossip what it means for the US Latino experience. They started by talking to some professional cheese mosas the Real Housewives of Miami, but they didn't stop there. Here are Monica and Elisa once again with cheese May.

Monica the Miami Housewife really wanted us to form with our cheesemak experiment.

Fake leg Aside, they did have some interesting points. The best cheesemut does require a little bit of work, and in order for our cheese me to be convincing, there has to be a body of supporting evidence so that it fits into a larger story.

I think that I know someone who's really good at getting straight to the source, and like the housewives, she's also paid to chease me out on TV.

Hi, everybody, I am Lelana Vascas. Formerly I was the anchor for E News. I've been in Access Hollywood. I spent seven years at The Today Show, and I think most people really know me from my years as a style expert on daytime TV.

Ooh, so, why is celebrity cheese may such big business?

I think people sometimes forget that these celebrities are true brands, and there is a machine that is there to protect that brand, and they want to control the narrative. They want to really control when a story breaks, how it breaks, how much you know about that story. And it's not just them, the media is also in on it. I've gotten a call ten minutes before I'm about to go on air that's like, we're killing this story because so and so's person called and they don't want to talk

So just like there's big tech, there's big cheese meath.

I mean, cheese me is what makes the world go round.

So what do you think the relationship between cheeseman and storytelling.

Is storytelling is just refined cheese myth. And it kind of makes sense that I went into this field because I want to know the stories, I want to ask the questions, and I haven't ability to tell a story live. That is really unique to me, and that is because I think I've practiced it for so long in front of my cousins at the dinner table, like at the Godness Sada at the Quinsignia. And there's a way that you tell the tieesement that gets everybody engaged and brings

No, totally. The delivery is super.

Important because when you're telling it to an audience, you want to be gentle, you want to give it pause, you want to get the reactions because based on their reactions, what's the next part of the story that you're going to reveal? And are you going to tease it out? Are you going to leave them wanting more? Are you going to get up, go get a drink of water

So we took Leniana's advice and used our best storytelling skills to share our little experiment with her.

And like the housewives, she was not impressed.

No girl next level say that she was just vacationing at Mara a Lago, not mar A Lago. Oh my god, that's the mic drop.

That's it right there. So it turns out that cheesemak can influence anything from the media that we consume to the products that we buy. And meanwhile there are people getting.

Rich from our thirst for cheese.

Man.

Yeah, I mean, if celebrities are brands, cheese may feeds the beast.

So it's clear that cheesemay can be really influential, and maybe it has been that way forever. I feel like we need to dive into the role of cheesement throughout history.

My name is Anna Dadriguez Navas. I am an assistiate pfessor of Latin American literature and culture at Leola, Chicago, and my most recent book is a book on gossip, which is why we're here.

So the tora in your book idle Talk, Deadly Talk. You look at how gossip in the Caribbean isn't just a tool, it's a weapon. So while it can build communities, it can also destabilize them. And something that you also get into is a difference between the etymology of gossip and cheese may. I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about that.

So in English we use the word gossip pretty indistinguishably from the Spanish cheese mate, right, but at its origin they're very different. So the word gossip comes from gossip, which basically means mavrina. So the word gossip is rooted in kinship, in that kind of chatter or talk between god parents. It describes a specific act, whereas cheese may for us, in Spanish, the origin of the word is

This really surprised me because cheese made to me, has more of a positive connotation than gossip. Another distinction that you make in your book is that the terms gossip and rumor are often used interchangeably, but that doesn't mean that they're identical. So with rumors, you don't necessarily know where they're coming from, and they tend to be more conspiratorial.

Yes, exactly. Gossip is very, very, very elastic, and it's really hard to overstate how different it can be and how much it changes while still being recognizable as gossip.

So look, Doda, we've actually been speaking to several professional chizmosas, and now that I'm thinking about it, we've only wanted to talk to women, and we never even bothered to ask why that was. I'm starting to think that it might have something to do with the internalized belief that we gossip more or Gela Muherres almost mass chizmosis. But where does that belief even come from.

Historically, there's been that suggestion that real men quote unquote don't gossip, So where does that come from? Well, women were historically excluded from the public sphere. We weren't the ones writing in newspapers or doing the public speaking, or attended political meetings. So it's in the private sphere where we found our voice. But it's also important to recognize

Too interesting, So is that maybe why women have been told that gossiping is bad and something that we should feel guilty about doing.

You know, gossip is something that we all do. But what happens is that when people talk about gossip, it's not respectable or something that is a terrible thing to do. It's really what you're seeing as an attempt to police other people's gossip and to dismiss their voice.

Exactly, And as you explore in your research, this isn't something new. So throughout history, what has been the relationship between gossip and power.

Gossip has been historically a brush used by the oppressor to paint the oppressed. So it's happened with indigenous men with peasants and farmers with gay people, all of whom have been talked about as being lazy, good for nothing, gossip wers. But what is happening in those cases is that those in power are first excluding those groups from public discourse and then disqualifying their private discourse as nothing but gossip.

Oh okay, I see how it is.

So can you give us an example of what that looks like In Latin America.

Whether it's slavery or colonization or dictatorships, our region has been marked, unfortunately, by systems of power that don't represent large sectors of the population, precisely because gossip is illicit and furtive. It is a way for people to circumvent those controls. They're able to challenge official versions of events, to say what they think really happen, and to circulate important knowledge to preserve their voices and their experiences.

Yeah, I mean this is really resonating with me.

In the afternoons, I used to sit in the sala of my childhood home with my visa weelas and they would, you know, tell me a lot of stories. There's usually a lot of cautionary tales, sometimes about men, but also about government repression in Cuba. So it is affirming to know that that is also a form of cheese made.

Gossip is a fundamental part of the kind of information control of repressive political systems, and it sort of works both ways. It can be extremely beneficial and it can

This reminds me of the comites in Cuba, which are basically networks of cheese muscles whose job is to snitch on their neighbors to the government if they see or hear or suspect of any illegal activity.

Yes, that's a perfect example of that. That's one, and there are many, and this sadly continues to happen. And I want to point out that in this example we're talking about men right all the way.

Yes, all the way.

It's always the man.

Gossip for us in the diaspora, is a really important way to reclaim stories that are at risk. So, for instance, if you think about family gossip, it's not just chatter. It's also a way of preserving something important or reclaiming lost memories, lost history, of filling out silences. There's a kind of oral history of the community that is authentic that emerges from gossip.

We'll be right back, Yes, hey, we're back. Producers Monica Morales Garcia and Elisa Bayena have the rest of the story.

Monica, I think I'm having a moment. Oh my God, tell me. For maybe selfish reasons, my main goal in this quest has been to demystify Chiese May because obviously I'm very desperate to drop my guilt. But I think that it's distracted me from seeing how Cheese May has actually helped me form and craft my Cuban American identity. How So, when I think about when I feel the most Latina, it's when I'm Chiasmanlo with my Theas and

Because I think it makes me sound less educated or something.

You know, I've only recently been able to think of myself as respectable, and I think a lot of that is because so much of my Latinx identity is deeply tied with class and gender and my experience in being this working class, flamboyant chi they Latina with a huge butt.

All Right, welcome back, Nissa Helite's the cheese Man. So how did the assignment go?

We have so much to share, my god?

Okay, So we first talked to two reality TV stars from the Real Housewives of Miami and they had some interesting suggestions about our Cheesema.

Maria Luca, that's not a good one.

Why do you say she has like a fake leg or something.

Okay, that's like the craziest thing I've ever heard that what's easier to make people believe is that I have a fake leg, not that I'm using weight.

Our second expert was an entertainment journalist, and she wanted us to take it even.

Further say that she was just vacationing at mar A Lago.

Wow, I think she knows me because to that one, that's some pretty serious cheesement that could destroy my career.

Good thing. We spoke to our last expert, Lo Toro riaz Neavz, who reminded us that cheesemut is supposed to be organic, it's not supposed to be fabricated. So in this case, our experiment took an unexpected turn.

Okay, I'm totally confused and intrigued. Now I want to know what happened.

Okay, So.

What we're saying is that we didn't end up telling anybody on our team that you wear a wig.

Oh.

We learned that the space where cheesemu happens is really vital because you need to build that intimacy and confienza. You got to look people in the eye. But because we're all working remotely, we realize that spreading the cheese may wasn't really going to happen as naturally as we wanted.

In other words, cheese may has actually taken a hit during the pandemic.

It was a really unexpected loss.

I did wonder, how do you start cheesemaup when you're not all in the office, So yeah, the pandemic hit again.

We were also just thinking what if we did start spreading this cheesemail. What if we started having meetings with other producers and we were like, hey, guess what, Madia's hair is fake? What if that was an invitation for them to say some really mean, nasty things about your hair.

The thing about cheese may is that it can go dark, it can get cruel, and it can be used as a takedown.

Yeah.

I mean, we also have to remember that cheese may is a way that belief systems are built and also maintained. So, for example, if I'm talking to Una Senora and she's gossiping to me about how someone gained weight and she's framing it as something shameful, that she is not going to be fun for me because body shaming is against my personal ethical code.

And so that is the other side of cheesema where we can be laughing and joking. But then it's like, oh uh, there was a crossover right there, and I understand that that would have been hard. Also if anybody said anything bad about my hair, I'd have to come at them, not just kidding.

So even though we didn't end up spreading the wig Cheesemay, I think that we still came out on top because we had a breakthrough. We learned that we'd come from a long line of cheese malsas who like us, knew that gossip isn't just silly women's talk. It deserves more respect because it can be a tool for resistance.

Yes exactly, it's an ancestral language, a save for cheesemad right there. And you know, this experiment has made us realize that it's not even so much what we're cheeseman though about, but rather the connection that cheese May is creating.

My ps and I live such different lives and sometimes it's hard to find things to talk about, but we can always talk about Talia always. Cheese May creates commonalities for us to discuss and discuss passionately and energetically and have fun together.

Gossip, for us is a real important connective tissue, connecting us us Latinas to Latin America, connecting us within our communities. Right, it can be a bridge so that sense of belonging, that sense of being part of that community is heightened with the gossip.

I don't know, this is like a therapy session.

See that's it.

You know.

For me, cheese may is like bonding in particular with family and joy and storytelling. I mean when I understood that what my mom was doing during the time that we were Cheesemando was actually telling me great stories, it was.

A turning point for me.

I was like, wait, I'm a storyteller too, and that basically changed my whole life.

I think I'm hearing that since we're all professional storytellers, were also professional chiese mosas. And you know what, that is nothing to be ashamed of. It is what gives us our power.

Ooh yes, our powers.

It's official because this sientific, asad cheese May have told us. So Elisa, Monica, your assignment is now complete. I am blessing you to go off to cheese me Are until you can't anymore, and that you're spreading the gospel of Cheesemare's resistance. So until your next assignment, off you go, my little Angels of Cheesemas. This episode was produced by Monica Moralis Garcia and Elisa Maena. It was edited by Marta Martinez and mixed by Stephanie Leveaux and Julia Caruso.

And Nancy Trujillo.

Nilee Ramirez and I are co executive producers and I'm your host Mariano Rosa. Latino USA is part of Iheart's Mike Utura podcast network. Executive producers at iHeart are Leogo Miz and Arlene Santana.

Join us again on our next episode.

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