This is Later with Lee Matthews the Lee Matthews Podcast More what You Hear Weekday Afternoon's on the Drive. Danny Fingeroff is a biographer and cultural historian comment or as well, specializing in the intersection of Jewish and American cultures. Author of such books as Superman on the Couch and Disguised as Clark Kent, his twenty nineteen biography of the late Stan Lee, and his newest focus is on the life and times of Jack Ruby, the Many Faces of Oswald's Assassin. Here
on the sixtieth anniversary of the assassination. I guess my first question, Danny Fingeroff, is Jack Ruby. Was he a villain or was he a hero? Oh? I don't think he was a hero. Maybe an anti hero. Some people did see him as a hero, but I think history has shown that he was an unstable figure, harry out some a series of possible agendas. But no, I don't. Uh. Yeah, I think maybe
after the first week people stopped seeing him as a possible hero. Ah, yes, so, And I guess he could be a little bit of both. At times he had noble impulses. He wanted, you know, to help people when he could, and he was loyal to his friends. But uh, there was a sleazy, sinister aspect whether or not he was technically in quote unquote in the mob. Uh, he was involved. He was certainly mob adjacent and you know, you too close to too many sort of
things for him to not have any association. So he was He might have been a hero in his own mind. But I don't Danny finger off this with us, the many faces of Oswald's assassin Jack Ruby. When I look at the life of Lee Harvey Oswald and I look at the life of Jack Ruby, I see two fellows who were complete outcasts in their own societies, and it seems like they had a lot in common in that. Okay, Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't even accepted by the Russians, and it looks like Jack
Ruby couldn't even get in the mob. Well, look, I think they were both you know, quote unquote nuts. You know, whether they were non nuts is the big question that people have been asking for sixty years. You know, I present evidence. I don't focus so much on Oswald. Of course, they're an extricable rate. Yeah, but I try to give the case for different scenarios for Jack Ruby. You know, but my focus really is on him as a person. As I spoke to relatives, it
is I spoke to the children of his competitors. I spoke to his Rabbi, who visited and regularly in prison and shares his notes with me. So I tried to get inside the mind of this guy and his life and times figuring I'm not going to be smarter than the thousand other people who've tried to salvocate for the past sixty years. Yeah. Yeah, And some have tried to romanticize Jack Ruby and make him out to be this this this behind the scenes zealoup, this behind the scenes patriot. Was he well, he'd had
to run eantasize himself as well. Ruby would ask people, he would he would go to people and say, I'm colorful, and I'm a character. He was conscious of himself as as the hero of his own movie, as the same those and then certainly after he had whatever his motivation in killing Oswald, from that moment dawn he was the focus of all this attention and this this wild circus trial that was probably the most bizarre American trial until the Chicago
seven or Chicago eight trial. It you know, So I don't know I come from a back then. I'm a writer, you know, so I would say Jack Ruby certainly a terrific protagonist some of Whoself's office story, whether you call him a hero, my dad's Jack Ruby, the many faces of Oswald's Assatin assassin Danny Finger office with us. What was the number one thing you learned in researching for the book? I think that I learned, well the number one A lot of things. But it was interesting how many different
kinds of ventures he was involved in. You know that that Ruby was the last person to give regular work to Hank Williams. You know, you know, he he ran, He had a couple of country Western venues and so, you know, just to see the it was interesting how although he was small time, how many famous and the boldface named celebrities he interacted with.
You know. They included from Welcome Back Todd to Gate Taplin and on the band of Bob Dylan thing by the way, shout out to the folks at the Bob Dylan Center in Tulfa. I was out there at the Dylan Coplin speaking about or assess nation of Bob Dylan back in the spring. So nice to be on the Oklahoma always well nice to have you. Danny Finger off cultural historian, and his newest book is Jack Ruby The Many Faces of Oswald's
Assassin. Was there a particular disappointment you found about Jack Ruby? Maybe something you were hoping to find but didn't well, as I think I might have alluded to what he I kind of had this for a while with sort of a romanticized notion. I thought of him as almost if any of the listeners remembered Ralph Krams and the Honeymooners. Ah, I still have a maybe slightly more sinister version of the Jackie Beathan on that show to the Moon. You
know, I'd say the disappointment was all he really was. It wasn't. He wasn't a guy who occasionally did a squeezy thing or too or lost his temper. He was like a crazy guy who were involved with some very unfavorite things. Got a fascinating life to write about it, And I hope to read about the fascinating yet frustrating thing about Jack Ruby and his Many Faces of Oswald's Assassin, all put together in a book by cultural historian Danny Finger.
Often when when Ruby got into old age, was he was he granting interviews, talking to reporters. Still he didn't make it the old age. Yeah, he was fifty five, you know, he looked much older, and he had a lot of Somehow the people who were watching him in jail didn't seem to notice that he had multiple life threatening conditions. He wouldn't shut up. Weirdly, nobody in the Texas and the Dallas Police Department had a tape recorder, so there's no record of anything elsehold said Ruby. On the other
hand, he didn't he did not testify at his own trial. I think the boys were afraid he would incriminate himself, but which you think is weird since he did Silvery Guy on TV. But during breaks and in the trial, during recesses, he would have press conferences and just talking, talking, talking to talk to anybody who's to visit him. You know, I have these elaborate notes in the Rabbi about the things that Jack said to him,
but they conpredicted themselves from day to day he had. The book is called The Many Faces because he had a lot of different personalities Jack Ruby, The Many Faces of Oswald's Assassin available everywhere you get books. That's written by David finger Roth, and I thank you for joining us to Danny Danny, I'm
sorry, Danny Danny. Yes. Thanks for listening to Later with Lee Matthews, the Lee Matthews Podcast, and remember to listen to The Drive Live weekday afternoons from five to seven and iHeartMedia Presentation