"Unknowns Revealed!" (w/ Franchesca Ramsey)

Vulture Festival, Segment Festival. It's gonna be so so fun. We're jam packing a bunch of amazing segments into one show into one hour because we have a stringent time limit in the space, which means we have stringent time limits for the segments. Yes, you know we're gonna be

doing some I don't think so Honey's. And you know we're gonna be uh premiering a little new voice mem oh you bitch, And maybe there's gonna be some new segments to featuring your favorite guests from the Lost Culture rests can yes, and they'll be joining us to play these amazing games, do these amazing segments and just chat with us and catch up. Yeah, we're so excited about it. We love our our family over at Vulture. We're so excited to be a part of Vulture Fest. So go

ahead and get your tickets now. Again, that's Saturday, May pm. And then what's next on the docket, bo, Well, next on the docket is we'll be in San Francisco four cluster Fest on June second. We have a show that's gonna be so so so jam packed with amazing performers, even us star or two. You could say that there's there's performers and then they're stars. So it'll be at the Civic Center in San Francisco. It will be so so fun. We can't believe we're sharing this line up

with so many amazing performers. You'll see some really familiar faces there while you're there to see us in San Francisco. We can't wait to meet you guys out there. Yes, Saturday, June second, actually at four pm that's where we're gonna be performing at Comedy Central's cluster Fest. We're literally so excited, honored to be on that bill. And Matt, what's next, Well, what's next is going to have to be are I Don't Think So Honey debut on the West Coast in

Los Angeles. We are gonna be at Echo Plex on Tuesday, June twelve at nine pm. You guys are not even ready for this lineup. We aren't gonna be in Los Angeles for very long, so we got the best of the best to come on and serve one minute each of their I Don't Think So Honey? Is you've you've heard the show on our podcast, you've maybe come seen it live. If you're on the West Coast and you can't make it to Clusterfest, you must come out to Ecoplex on Tuesday, June twelve. It's gonna be so fun.

We're really stocking this like we've never stocked anything before. It's gonna be really, really, really great. And people have been asking us for in l a show for a long time and here we are delivering Mama. So check it out. And this is down the road, you guys. But then at the end of June's it's gonna be us. Friday, June twenty nine, we're gonna be at the Bellhouse again. But maybe you'll hear a little bit more about that later. For now, why don't you just feel focus on vulture Fest,

calester Fest, and Los Angeles is very on. I don't think so, honey, focus up on those three and then we'll talk. Okay, yeah yeah, don't tax your brain. Yeah yeah, yeah, I know we've got too many taxes. M A right, boyish look, man, Oh I see you? Why why? And look over there? How is that culture? Yes? Goodness ding dong less Caltusa's calling. And if you noticed, I seem a little bit relaxed, well because there was a beach day. Oh you literally went to the bar doel. Do you

feel like any color? I didn't notice I did on the back of my calves because I was literally faced down in my towel reading a book. Oh my god, we'll get to the book in a second. You've got that Greek melanin going on, the hints of it, just a little a little sun kissing to the olive toned melon. Although it's at first very warm day, it's like I'm going to the beach, and then it's you get there and it's not your parents. With my parents, it was lovely to see them and we were all reading books,

which I don't think ever happened before. We get to what you were reading, what we're we're focused reading. My dad was reading a book called Ghost Warriors, and I think it was about He's very into history, so I think it was about either revolutionary war or civil war. Like, oh, I think I've heard about this. Yeah, okay, so he was reading that he loves history. Actually, now that now that oh no, wait, I can't reveal this, but I

got him a very good birthday present. He listens, he's gonna listen to this episode because we were talking about what I was reading and he was very interested. So, um, I can't reveal, but I will reveal soon on the podcast the first really good gift because now that like, not that I have a lot of money, but now that I have some money at all, I was like, I want to get my parents a nice gift. I've

never been able to do that. So I got them the first ever nice gift, and I will reveal on podcast what that was because I'll be excited about suspenseful. What was Katrina reading? Um, I don't know. I think it was probably something something a little bit lighter than Ghost Warriors. Um, I I couldn't say it was. Um, let's go ahead and make up Pachinko. But yeah, let's say I'm only referencing Pechino because you have to read it. You're a big reader. What are you reading right now?

I'm reading while I just finished our Guests book, that's true, and I'm reading some other stuff for the pod for some people we're gonna have on that. I'm really okay, And um, so ah, this is cryptic information. What the fun is the is the birthday? You have to get his dad? What reading listeners? You're gonna just have to stay tuned for information. Okay, but let's talk about what we both read. And um, it's the first book by our resplendent guest. Too is the second lost I guess

at the lost episode. Okay, so I didn't want to bring it up because it's such a sensitive topic. You just have to bring up. He is fully traumatized by this, and like, listen this we had a lost episode. It was an amazing episode with our guest. And it's okay, right after we didn't really didn't. I don't lead to all three didn't. I don't think so Honey's Our Guests turned in incredible. I don't think so Honey, And I don't want to we'll talk about what it was like

to other topics, but um, it was really heartbreaking. It was it was making for a great intro. Yes, you might be wondering whose voice was that. I will tell you the author of Well That Escalated Quickly, which was coming out on Mayo and you, guys, Bone and I both read this and we've been talking about it. It's amazing. It's it's it's really I'll let her tell you what

it's all about. But it's so applicable. I think everyone, especially if you're a listener of this podcast, I would imagine that you're engaged on social media and interested in social justice, so this is like really some thing for you. Like I really want everyone to go pick this up in this May twenty two comes out in nationwide and also the star of Decoded. You've seen her on night least The Nightly Show with Larry Wilmore. Um, come on, come on, and then of course the podcast. Last name

basis Tratrick and we're gonna talk about Patrick. Yes, we will discuss Patrick as Patrick is also a topic in the book. He gets a whole chapter in the topic of the life of our Friend and our Guest, Miss Francesco Ramsey. I have been waiting so long for you to come back because you're you were so gracious at the end when we lasted, you were like, I'll come back,

and I was like, I'm so rassed. And then okay, and then we went home and we like sort of processed what happened, and then you were the one rather than having us send you an email being like we're so sorry, you sent us an email being like, guys, I had so much fun. Thanks for having me like the most gracious thing. Well, I mean, like technical difficulties happened, and especially as someone who is not just like a performer and a writer, but I'm also like a creative

and a producer. I have been there, like I have had so many times where I have spent hours working on something and tweaking and perfecting and then it crashes and it's gone and there's no one to blame. You know, you're just sitting there like you are angry, but it's not your fault, and it's not really the computers. Well, it just happens. Fault. The thing that it did take any months to get over it, if only because if only because we talked about so much good stuff like

that was right after you worked with Taraji. Oh my god, so that was for women who rock? Yeah, black girls rock. Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. We have such a great chemistry. It's was that no matter what, like microphones on or no microphones, it's going to be a little conversation. We walked and I walked in and I saw them too, just chatting away, and I was like, Oh, this is gonna be cute, this is gonna be fun. It has

always been, that's always been, you know. I wanted to stop myself as like all of us is great podcast materials, great from the job because when we met is when I did a little guest spot. You've decoded a number of times I think three or four times, and I even helped write an episode. Um, yes, she's recurring. If you check the IMDb, although it's not on my IMDb, you can put that we will fix we will fix that.

And I want to be known for yes, honestly. Okay, So I remember very fondly because we did a sketch which was where are you from? And well you talk about quoted tell us all what MTB decoded as a web series about the intersection of race and pop culture and identity. We've really expanded to talk about stuff that's not just race. UM. Our friend Patty Harrison has been on the episodes UM recently, so we talked about gender

as well. UM. And so we did this episode called where Are You From, which is about the experience that lots of people of color have where someone says where are you from? But then I don't know? But where are you from? And um, Matt and ironic date in the sketch. So it was very cute taking things slow, daylight pouring in. I think that my character like I don't know who picked the place, but if my character picked the place, I was like, good job, good job,

good job was very bad. Everything else. Yeah, he was all in my business. Would not take Florida for an answer, and that is the answer, sir, I'm from Florida. But it was so fun We were cracking up the entire time because it was just it got like really weird and existential and like straight. We had like a Cosmos moment in there that Yeah, it was funny. Yeah, it was so funny and also like love the producer cor Neighbor Brown shout outs to them, shout yes, he does, Yes,

he does, and another shout out in this book. And I also met this person on that day. And this is the reason why I was so bummed that we lost the episode because we talked all about Dealina. Dolina is one of my best girlfriends, but she's also my makeup artist, and you know, like not have to say that. I'm like someone who wears a lot of makeup, but you always think you know, but you're like, I don't know how to do take care of what I need to take care of. But not till you have a

professional come in and slay your face. That's when you're like, oh, I know nothing. I don't know anything. And that's how it was when I first met Delina. And she's just like a gem and she's the full time makeup artist onto code In and she does my makeup for all my Red Carpets and anytime I'm on TV and she's just fantastic. She's so fun and you can follow her

at Delina Medine. But the way I'm just gonna get into the book, the way you write about her in the book, it's as if it was I mean, it is like a turning point for you because you were talking about developing to code and then like just shooting a bunch of stuff and then being like, oh, and just tell me if this is inaccurateate being like, oh shit, I don't know how to do my own makeup. No,

We've filmed three episodes of Decoded. And then MTV was like, so this is not the business, but here's something that but here's the thing. Here's the thing. No, I'm okay with it because like everyday makeup and TV makeup are so different. Like you know when you meet a celebrity and you're like, holy sh it, she had so much makeup on, and then you take the iPhone picture and you're like, whoa they look they look amazing and I

look like a mole rag. It's because like one HD cameras, but even like if you're taking with a shitty camera, like making sure that you have powder on, and I'm talking, I'm serious, like I like, don't wear foundation very like I do now. But I was on camera with no foundation on, no powder on, just like some eyeliner and mascare and I was like, all right, let's do this.

I was like shiny and greasy, like I just I didn't look like someone who was hosting a show You Feel Me so, so it really was one of those things where I had met her on set for a web series, like maybe the week or two before, and we really hit it off when we've been texting about podcasts, strangely enough, because I was like, why aren't you listening to Seal this when serial had just come out it was like years ago, and she was like, no, what are you talking about. I was like, girl, you need

to listen to this. Like I was just telling her about it. So we started texting, and then when MTV came back to me and said, listen, we got to reshoot these, I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. And then I texted her. I was like, listen, this is so last minute, but is there any way you could do my makeup for this? And she was she had a full time job. She was working like pharmaceuticals. She wasn't even a makeup artist full time. She was

doing it on the side. And then decoded became like her full time job, which is, you know, just like a blessing that I was able to be like, can you please help me, I'll be able to pay you. And then she was able to take that and start her career from it, and she gives you exactly not only is it incredible hair and makeup, but also good conversation. Yes, you can be talking about anything. And Delina has a like she's just like so engaging. People are my favorite

people on the set. And you know what, here's the thing, too, is you want to be nice to those people. They will make or break you. Not that you're doing it to be fake, but I cannot tell you how many times I've been on set and I've been like, you have an attitude, and the last person you should have an attitude with is the one who's going to make sure if you look cute or not. Absolutely Culture n

thirty nine. You be nice and honestly, if you if you're nice to the right ones and if the right ones are on set, not that there's like a right or they give you model. Yes, I had someone for this recurring thing for like three weeks straight flather like three mare on my face. I had no idea how

expensive that ship was. That's another thing. Yeah, that's another thing that like when we sometimes do like a little bit of light drag or do you use makeup, that's another thing like women have to pay so much fucking money from makeup and to all female listeners. I cannot even fathom that's amount of money that you guys are spending. That's why you need a makeup artist friend who has a little discount. And then you hit up that venmo

and you just say, I'll hit you back, girl. So here's another thing though, hair and makeup people they like there usually are so friendly and down to earth to their friends with everyone. So if you are nasty to a hair makeup person, I just know that they have relationships with everybody. Be nice to everyone only not that you shouldn't be nice to everyone always at all times, but like, if you're having a bad day, don't take

that out on hair and makeup. So I actually heard some tea this production that I will not name, one of the actresses like was difficult um and now the showrunner like will not work with them on any other projects because of the way they treated hair and makeup. Because they didn't want the assistant to do their makeup, they had to have the top person to do their makeup.

This is like a secondary person on the show. So just know that word travels around when you're route to people on set and hair and makeup are not the people to funk with. I will never understand that. Like, if you are blessed enough to have the opportunity to play, like literally we get paid to play and have a good time and dress up and tell stories, which is just like so fun. Right, You're not doing brain surgery, So to come on to set and be nasty to

somebody is just I never will understand that. Yeah, you're doing the easiest job being a talent, truly, I mean for real, for real. And here's the thing is, like, also there's ways to get around, like if it's going to be a late night sleep before where oh I'm just like one time, one time I found myself feeling cranky on a set because the call time was seven pm and it didn't shoot and then you were doing overnight,

so I was and I didn't know that. I haven't been on too many sets, but I found like one I am rolled around and we hadn't even like done anything, and I was like, oh, no, I didn't prepare for this. That's your own fault. Literally, don't take that out on anyone else. So I just found myself kind of like sitting in the corner like silently, like breathing through my nose and at my mouth because I was so tired.

But like if you allow that to show up, like girl, no contention, Like millions of other people would kill to be right in that spot that you are in right now, Like how many people audition and or just like don't even have an agent or like sending out those headshots and like sending out those reels of like stand up and ship like just you know, taking improv one on one and just trying to get their foot in the door.

And here you are like rolling your eyes because you're like that services want to have simelk like my thing, my like craft services like a requirement, and I will throw a fet if they don't have Welch's fruit snacks. I'm flipping a goddamn oh my god, hi brow bit,

I want that blue little bag. Can I just say, like one time, so when we shot the pilot, I shot a pilot for Cotties that drawl and um, one of the nights we had a late night and it was it was difficult, but you know I got through it and the next morning everybody was like, Francesco, you did great. What can we get for you? What can we do? Because you know, do you want chocolates? Do you want? Like? What do you want? I'm like, I'm not really like a chocolate person, Like what at a candy?

Like any candy? Like? And then I was like, well, I love gummy bears. I love gummy bears. They're great and um so they were like okay, great, great. So then I'm on set that day and there's a guy with a cup of gummy bears between every hat coming up to me and being like do you want a gummy Oh my god person. I was like, no, that's kind of weird. Okay cool, And then and then I learned that he was that was his job all day stand.

There was this thing of gummy bears. It was so funny, and at first I was like this is ridiculous, and by the end I was like, where the fun of a monster? I am not going on the birth of a monster right there? Offered the gummy bears so funny, and I found bad because I was like, this is really a lot. I just said it very off handed, like yeah, Charlott, gummy bears whatever. They were like those gummy bears for that is that's I mean you made

it right. Life goals. That's life goals. Life goals. Speaking of life, let's go back to the beginning and let's ask the question that we once asked many months ago. Got an answer too, but now we must ask again. And I'm very excited to begin to ask again, which is the question that we ask all of our guests, Switches Francesco, what was the culture that as you were growing up kind of made you the person that you

are that you are today. What was the pop culture well, whether it be a movie like television, music, in your life, circumstances around your upbringing that you decided this is gonna full form me. Um, I don't remember what I said the last time I was here, but I have been thinking about this recently and I will never forget seeing

militia like middle school. This is what you said, because let me tell you, like the Braids the FILAPPI had like suburban black girl who was like a little prude, like I remember like her friends having sex and militia being like, I don't know about that, and I was like, yes, this is I was like, um, and I just thought she was so and I also thought it was so cool that she was a singer and an actress, and I remembered there was a time in my life where I really thought I was going to be a singer.

Oh god, um all of us. Yeah, I need to hear about Columbia Records, which is in the book. I must hear more about this. But um so yeah, like I had this time in my life where I really wanted to be a singer and it's just like Brandy is doing it all. I remember I sang sitting up in my room and like the Talent Show when when I was in like sixth grade, I think I think

it was sixth grade. I'm dying to see. I think I was wearing like denim overalls and like a floppy hat because I was also in a blossom, so it was like a floppy It was like a Moitia meets Blossom moment. Yes, I had like the big like the

fake sunflower. Oh god, what a time. But yeah, like Moesia like really spoke to me because it was like wholesome but it was funny and it was like real and to me, I was like, Wow, that's the career that I want, Like I want to sitcom, I want to have an album and like she was so confident, and also for me, she was a different version of blackness on television that I was not used to seeing in terms of the fact that I went to private school and in many spaces I was the only black girl,

and I would have friends who would say, like, Oh, you're not like other black girls. I'm just like no, I'm like Militia. So yeah, I loved, loved Moesia. Yeah, we did talk about Brandy. Literally we did that's what you said last time, And then we also got into how Brandy and this is like, it's like a beautiful feeling HPJ to know that we're going to get this episode back. I turned in and we're crying together. He's

holding my hand. Um. So then we got into how Brandy actually is widely regarded in like the R and B singing communities underrated, not even just underrated, but as an icon of riffing vocal styling, just like Alto like that that like media like, yeah, she's she is an icon, yes, and like apparently a virtuosic pianist like she can. I did not know that she can play the piano really

fucking well. And then remember that clip that went around for a little bit when she was in Chicago and always dropping the funniest like but she's doing fun little bits like she's like she just like she's at a piano and she's just singing to the camera and she's and she just sings bish wet wet, like she's just doing that over and over and it's the funniest thing. Right.

There's a gift of her that is so funny. When she was on like one oh six in Park and they were like, everybody's getting a copy of Brandy's album and she looks at the camera she's like, no, we need to buy the album. She was like, that's great, but like by it. And it was so funny because it was just so real of her being like, don't give my shirt away, because honestly, it got rough for her in terms of selling music. It's hard to be

the transition. It's hard to be a musician period these days with like streaming and like it's just the streaming services don't pay very much money, and that's why everybody has to tour and have like products and do all of this, like you know, collaborations, brands and all other stuff. It's really the whole game has changed. For musicians, but in terms of longevity, like that is almost impossible to maintain.

Not saying that she has like succeeded or failed on that criterion alone, but it's like that is just that's impossible for anybody. Well, she's done what she's had to do. I mean, like she she gigs like Chicago. Was like, yeah, that's true, you know what I mean, Like she does her thing like for a while there, I think she was judging America's got talent. Ye, she's always like and

then she she's always worked. But what I think is not that it's a shame, Well it's a shame is because so many people like there wasn't remember there was a video which was like for maybe her for like birthday or something. All these R and B singers, including Jennifer Hudson, were like, Brandy, you are the one. They were like trying to sing little riffs that she had

done and like couldn't do it. And I was like, yeah, actually, if you think about it, a lot of music that she makes sound very easy, like the song have You Ever Oh My God? Yeah, there's some riffing and some like vocal gymnastics at the end of that song. Which is like it's a lot harder. Well, you know, Whitney was like her godmother, Yes, you know what I mean, So like she came up under some really talented vocalists.

And it also goes back to I think we talked about this before, but or maybe I just have said this many times. In some ways, I feel like it's more difficult to be successful singer if you can sing than if you can't sing, because like there's some stuff that just can't really be captured in the studio. It's like you need it, lie I've and people like to be able to sing along to ship and if your voice is too good, the general public can't sing along to some ship that's like belting and head voice and

big notes. People want to be able to sing along to stuff. It's like repetitive and like easy to digest in that way. And so it's like if you have a really good voice, I think it's just really really hard. And that's just like such a strange thing, like not to say that, like every big popular singer doesn't have a good voice, but there's also a lot of people who can really sing, and they pull them back in the studio because they're just like, oh, this is a

little bit too much for like Jen Pop. I will cite the person I always cite on this podcast, which is Kelly Clarkson. Here's the thing we started up. That's like, yeah, exactly, it's one of what she can do. But yes, she is belting out the notes in the chorus, but you can still anthemically, but the range of the song does not show like what her actuality. Yeah, absolutely, And that's and now that she's singing on the new album Meaning of Life, and she's kind of letting go in the

way she's always wanted to. Like in her words, it's stuff that is soulfu pop, very riffy, very kind of emotional and felt. But yes, you can't hear it on the radio because people don't know how to do that, right. Yeah, they want stuff that has, you know, a smaller range.

And again, like there are some singers who can break out of that, but I do think for some people, if your voice is too good, I think that like music execs are like I don't know, like there's something about and I don't even want to say her name, but like say her name, but like I think in many ways that's like why Taylor Swift absolutely relates, is so relatable to girls, Like she's a decent songwriter, but like she is pretty, but she like tones down her pretty,

so she's like, I'm just like you, and you're like, girl, you are six ft tall and like a size to like you're not just like me. And then like her songs are all really you can sing along to them and they're like accessible. It sounds like you're reading from her journal, you know what I mean, And like there's

something about that that audiences really like. It feels like you could be my friend, like you are someone I could hang out with versus you know, like I love Beyonce, but like Beyonce and I are never going to see friends. Like she is a star, Like she's not my friend, she is a star. She doesn't belong to us in the way that is never inviting us over for the cook Listen is not inviting me to her fucking house and like sending me Christmas cards and ship like are

you kidding up? Liking posts? She's that's sliding up in my d M. She's not being like we are getting we're besties, Like no, not at all, Like if she acknowledges me I will be forever thankful. I'm grateful. But you know what I mean, Like Taylor is like trying to be everybody's friends. Isn't her Instagram like taylorst thirteen? Yeah? I think her Twitter Instagram handles to like, I'm just like you. I couldn't get my own name either. My god, oh my god, I hope no Swifties listen to this podcast.

We've we've come first, We've come for her many times. Okay, they tried to get my Twitter shut down? Oh my god, literally, okay, yeah they did. Yeah, can we say, okay, can let's just exchange some swifty stories because obviously you've dealt with this in a much it was very recent, but I'm ready to hear you. Mine was election day. I know about Taylor posts the Instagram of her standing in line, the voting at the at the polls. I'm with someone.

I'm not going to say who, right, So she and then and she tweets it, and then I reply like she's a little too fucking late, and and I think I think just the F word just threw people off,

and swift Ease latched onto it and they were regressing that. Yeah, to think about that I was just and then I kept being like, guys, like, it's not about like what she owes us and what she does, and it's the fact that she like used feminism as like a marketing tool exactly exactly, and it's like I was like, I was like clapping back with like and look like your

boy fucking threw down two floor seats. Used to love her back in the day, but now she's letting me down and I'm just and you're allowed to say that. But here's the thing. I really feel like the super vitriolic level of her fans is due to the fact that she has cultivated this fake friendship with them where they feel as because what she does is she goes on Tumbler and when people write these long ass screeds about how dare you come for for for Taylor, she

likes them. So she is like indirectly, uh like rewarding that behavior. And so she and her team follows some of these accounts in them to her invites them to her house, and so I feel like they feel like they have to stand up for her an army, like they are a Taylor Swift army. And it's so funny because they can They've come for me a few times, but most recently she did a cover of Earth Wind and Fire Sweet one single tweet is I tweeted, no one asked for them all. I tweeted. I didn't talk

about like the quality of the song. I didn't mention that it sounded like a funeral procession for someone that died in September. You know what I'm saying, Like, usually you want to see like your uncle and auntie like popping that pussy, like September and uncle both Tylor. It was just like so sad. So I tweeted that out and they were coming for me. They were like, bitch, I asked for it, and then they were like and

then like it was okay. But then the funniest was, you know, all the Swifty accounts like they searched to see that I had tweeted positive things about Taylor Swift in the past. They were like, we're exposing Francesca because on my thirty second birthday, I tweeted, I'm singing thirty two to the tune of Taylor's twenty two. Okay, this was three years ago, and they were like, got you a bit, and I was like, what song they want? To be here. I was like, listen, I have in

my iTunes right now, do you feel me? Like? There are a number of songs on the album that I enjoyed exactly, but stay in your lane. This was not Some songs do not need to be covered, you know what I'm saying. Oh god, they were so bad. So then I was getting on a plane. I was like leaving a speaking gig, so I was not on the inn. Like I tweeted that one tweet. I went back and forth the two people. I got on a plane. When I got home, in my email box, I had messages

from Twitter that were like, we've reviewed your account. You are not in violation of our terms of service. And I was like, why am I getting these messages? They were flagging, they were flagging mass flagging that tweet. Then I went onto my Facebook and they had like and I know their swifties because like all of their Facebook names are tailor are Taylor Swift and Camilla Cabo was like, they love both of them, so either their picture was one of them or their name was one of them.

And they were like leading racial slurs all over my Facebook. And then one tweeted, oh um for Tessica's only saying this so she can sell her like flap Bass book, And I was like, well, now that you mention it, that escalated book out. And I was also like, way

did you research on me? Like way to go? Like I was like, okay, guys, but also like how perfect that you literally just illustrated my My book is about how the Internet has ruined communication around like the smallest issues to like really important issues, right, and how like things just get really blowed out of proportion and like like everyone's emotions get so high to the point that one innocuous tweet saying no one asked for this, which is a fact. Yeah, no one asked for this. And

also it wasn't even It's not even inherently negative. It was like you know what I'm saying, It wasn't even this sucks. Listen why this dreams is like my fucking that justice for that music video because it sucked. I loved that song. And so I was literally like, not that I have to justify, Like I've given Taylor some of my money, I've listened to some of her songs.

I didn't like this cover. It wasn't for me. If you like it, that's great, but people got really upset and and and there were lots of people who were like, this is really promo for your book because this happens to you all the time. And I'm like, yeah, it really perfect. Yes, her flop as book coming out through

Grand Central Publishing. So, speaking of the book, so Bone and I have both read it, and I love this book, and I'm very excited that it's that it's out there, because I definitely don't know if there's anything that's so directly and so relatively tackled the issue of social justice and social media living in the same breath and how sometimes they can really complicate each other. My god, So tell us about why you wanted to write this, and tell us a little bit about what you want people

to get from it. Yeah, you know. Um, So, I had a viral video in two thousand and twelve called ship why Girls Sayed a Black Girl, which I didn't even know. This is where you came from. Yeah, So I have been making videos for like six years prior to that, but I was working, like I was working as a graphic designer. I wanted to be an entertainment you know. I was sending out those headshots that I was doing stand up. I was pounding the pavement and

wasn't getting anywhere. So YouTube was really my outlet. And when this viral video happened, it completely rocked my world. Suddenly I became the person that everybody wanted to speak about race and identity and privilege and oppression. And I think a lot of people don't realize that I just I didn't know. I was just like so unprepared and I kind of had to do like a ton of

homework to get to where I am now. Yeah, and so I think through the course of that, you know, at the time, lots of people were coming to me and saying, write a book, write a book, but I didn't know what to write a book about. And I just thought, like, well, something, just I haven't done anything yet, Like I went viral, that's not And I didn't want to write a white girls Say to Black Girl's book, which is like what everybody wanted me to do. And

so I was like, I'm not ready for this. And then fast forward to five years later, Uh, right after Nightly Show got canceled, I thought, well, maybe this is the right time, Like I don't have a job, and this is something I really wanted to do, and I had been kind of like collecting stories like in a Google doc, and I really wanted, first of all, to shine a light in the fact that we all have

to start somewhere. And I think, especially right now, conversations around social justice are so judgmental, sometimes rightfully so, but oftentimes it turns into you don't know what that word means. You still watch that show, you still listen to that artist, how dare you did? Dad? And it feels for people who have never been exposed to this stuff, they shut down. And I know that because I've been the person doing it,

and I've been the person on the other side. And so I thought, well, why don't I just expose myself in hopes that people will be a little more self reflective and be honest about their own journeys and be a little more gracious to the people that they love in their lives who are gonna sunk up, because like that's part of being a human, like we all funk up, um, And so yeah, I wanted to do it in a humorous way, but in just like a really honest way too.

It's so good and I think that's I think That's what sort of distinguishes the book from from other similar works. I'll say, like the fact that you have that you were just able to turn that sort of mirror back on yourself and be like, look like I like just I think midway through the book, you're like, look, I started out being this sort of like you know, and I was going to say, like, internet personally like you

like you succeeded on certain people. But here's the Here's the gag is that like so many of us have been that person, right, and like social media has made us into monsters in the sense that we are all putting on this like show for everybody, like look at how great my life is and my brunch and my outfits and how great these things are. And then we're also looking at what everybody else is doing and feeling

really bad about ourselves. And for me, I thought it was really important to say, like, look, I have been that person, and I had to have my own wake up call in order to create the life and career that I wanted because I was wasting a lot of time talking ship and being negative online. And guess what, I bet you are doing that, Like every single person is doing that on some level. I mean, it got it got so crazy for me. Not not that I was engaging too much, but I definitely was where currently

I mean, I can speak everyone as well. We're both on Facebook right now, And tell me about how you decided to break away? Can I tell you? On my part, it was for cold fucking turkey, Like one day I woke up, I was like, I don't need this act. It was as I've pulled back a lot. But I mean, for me, the complication is that this is part of my very good that's so hard. That is something I really wanted to talk to you about because I recently had a discussion with someone and I had just met

this person and I incredibly smart guy. And um actually Laura Ashley Smith's father. Yes, yeah, I was out there Mariah Smith Laura actually met. They're good friends of ours, and I was out there on a story Price trip and they graciously invited us over to their house. And I was talking to him and I said I had just deleted Facebook, and he said, I don't think it's a good idea to delete Facebook because that just removes one intelligent voice from the discussion. And I thought to myself,

I mean I wouldn't call Facebook and intelligence. And so then I thought to myself, but I do see what he's saying. You know what I mean, because and throughout your book you do you have so many like really good positive ideas about how you engage with people online and calling them in as opposed to calling them out every time, which I really encourage people to read this book and read all about but I do think and

then your book also gets into self care. It was part of my self care to get off Facebook caause I I it got to a point where I found that that site became a place where I would only put negative thoughts and felt everyone else. It felt like different from Twitter and Instagram, and that Facebook became a place to dump negative feelings. Yeah, and I think Facebook is also different because you have relationships with those people. Like on Twitter, it's not my friends, it's not my family,

it's like celebrities, it's media outlets. It's like some Internet people that I know, but not people that I'm like close with. And there's something very different about when you're on Facebook and it's somebody that you went to high school with and they're just saying like super ignorant shit that like hurts you in a very different way than like Kanye saying ignorant, which is like still terrible, but

they just feel very different. Well, Facebook, I think, and this is I'm just gonna recount something that happened to Matt, and I feel like Facebook sort of yeuh, this in this very specific place because like that sort of exemplifies call out versus calling, like incidents where Matt, you were having this issue and correct me if I'm wrong, where you were just having these public Oh god, I was seeing them, yes, like a Gora esque like like but then but then it always like to the tenor of

each conversation was completely changed as soon as you reached out to them individually and you're like, hey, let's talk this out person to person. Through my own experience, I mean, people are surprised nowadays when you go to speak to them directly because it doesn't because it does not happen.

And again, like this is something I talked about in the book, is that I had this, and I think everybody falls into this where we like, we want the cookies like people do on Facebook, and they're like, I just want to say if you're a Trump supporter, and I was like thumbs up. You tell them sisters like that's right, and like everyone just like patting themselves in the back, like what the funk are you? You're not actually doing anything. I have totally done that, I've totally

been there. And then what ends up happening is that you realize like that doesn't actually do anything, but does nothing. No, and they don't taste good. They're like gluten free, like they're like the diet cookies, like like there's nothing. And then you have somebody who like jumps into the conversation who like genuinely doesn't know anything. They put their foot in their mouths, and then like everybody descends on them.

It becomes confusing too, because it's what the it's what the discussion was initially about, and then the subsect of this person inserting themselves and all of a sudden, it's confusing. And also timing is weird. Remember it's not a conversation. You could reply to something and then there's like two days later and then like people from all different cross

sections of her life like chime in. I remember after the election, Uh, everybody was posting about you know, they were upset about Donald Trump, and my dad had just joined Facebook. Now, my dad lives in South Carolina. He like there's no innet, like there's no internet cafes, like,

he didn't have internet for a really long time. So he just got on Facebook and he posted something like, you know, like on my Facebook wall, like it's in God's hands or something, which I was like, oh God, But I also know my dad, right, I know him, and I had friends from college. You were like, listen up, sir,

and I was like, holy sh it. Like my friend from like who's like a fucking feminist scholar, is like going off on my dad about like intersectionality and how like Mark and how it's like easy for him as like a straight sister dude to say it's in God's hands, but she's agnostic and like that and like all very valid things. But I also was just like, my dad does not even know like what you were, He doesn't

know what these words mean. And now like everybody else is tagging on so that they can look cooler, and I was just like, oh my god, I have to delete this and call my dad and be like, okay, listen, you can't do that. You that's how you feel about it, but like this is why other people got upset and it was if I hadn't called him and talked to him, I feel like he would have felt completely different about

that situation. And most of us, I feel like too often we're so quick to go in on somebody online that we actually care about that it would be so different if we just picked up the phone and talk to Oh, absolutely okay, and I want to talk about because this sort of gets into and I don't know, and tell me if these aren't necessarily the same things.

You talk about cookies a lot, And that's a cheap Amanda sort of quote from Americana where it's like, I'm we don't get a cookie for like racism shouldn't exist. You don't get a cookie. It's like not being racist, beautiful quote like just is perfect? Um is? Is that is that impulse to like fucking descend on someone just to like performatively show how woke or whatever you are? Like? Is that is that some like like how like how

do you? Sort of I always struggle with like um separating like virtue signaling with like actually trying to be educational. But you know what, No, You've answered my own question. I think it's a little bit of both for some people,

calling it is different. Calling it is not virtue signal because calling in calling in you, I mean, and if you're not familiar with the term, calling in is like taking somebody aside and having like a private personal conversation with them, and it takes it's a lot more work, it's a lot more emotional labor, which is why a

lot of people don't want to do it. And I totally get that, and I think especially for like marginalized people, you know, like every time a straight person says something stupid, like you don't want to have to like pull them aside and like explain to them, like you know, like l g B t Q history, Like you don't want to do that work. And I totally get that, but

I also think sometimes we kind of have to. And for me, I do think sometimes people descend on other people because they need an outlet, and it's and it is very frustrating, especially there's so much scary shit happening in the world, like life and death ship, and when somebody completely invalidates your experience or just says something really dismissive or just downright ignorant, even if they don't mean it.

In that way and you're just like mad, Like you have probably had those times where're like, oh, I have time to like you don't really have time. You're like I have somewhere to be a but I'm going the funk in like I have all the gifts I have, like all the emojies, like I am red d like catchphrases, everything right, and it's like not even about them, you

know what I mean. People are like you know, they're like Okay, Becky and they're like Melissa and different, like all of a sudden, like it just it just turns

into something else. And again, sometimes it's a performance and sometimes it's a cathartic experience where you're just like I'm really upset aby out this or like not to keep bring up Kanye, but like he most recently said that like slavery was a choice, and black Twitter turned it into like a hilarious hashtag where like became cathartic, where like we were dragging Kanye, but we're also kind of just like laughing at the idea of like this is something people say all the time, like oh that would

live I was in slavery, I would have done a by and see, so like now let's all make jokes about it, right, and like let's all commiserate and how stupid this is, but also like say something funny and educational. So I think that sometimes it is for other people and sometimes it is just like I need to get this off of my chest. And I think I've been

in I've been in both of those places. Well, there's the call out culture, which I think can be positive because then you can at least feel like you're not alone here when people do say hi, I see this, and I'm responding. And I think sometimes call in culture or calling in can feel intimidate aiding, because then you're

responsible for the person's reaction. And there's actually a paragraph in your book that I wanted to draw attention to specifically because I've actually had a very chearful conversation with a member of my family when I brought up their privilege, and I wanted to read this little if I can. Here's what I've learned. Conversations about race and privilege are difficult,

especially with someone you love. When Patrick, your husband, and I first talked about white privilege, I remember him getting hung up on the word privilege itself, like so many people do in many ways. The word is a misnomer since it's so closely associated with wealth and a complete lack of struggle. So instead of trying to explain it, getting inevitably more and more agitated as I did, so, I pivoted and talked about my own privilege as a straight,

able bodied CIS woman. No one asked me invasive questions about my genitals are gross relations relationship questions like which one of you is the man. The conversation slowly grew from you have privileged to everyone has privileged, so let's figure out how to navigate it. And I thought that was really a good way to ago about future conversations like this. Because the person that I had this discussion

with it became a fight. I said, privilege. Oh my god, that word, because that's people, because they don't understand that it's not saying you've had it easy your whole life, and it's not ignoring any sort of marginalization now that

you may feel. The minute you bring up privilege, people are like one time I broke my leg in third grade and I couldn't go swimming all summer long, and you're like, okay, like great, especially especially white people who because they've had economic struggles, and they say, how dare you saying privileged? And it's just this, it's an acknowledgement

of what separates you from actual marginalized groups. And I think that is a way that is that is something to acknowledge, is that the word privilege rings a certain bell in those ears that it need not well. And I think that again, that's like one of the big themes of this book. There's so much stuff that people

don't know. And so when you go into a conversation with somebody of like, you're wrong because you don't know this thing, they are like, well, I don't even know what you're talking about, So like I don't know that. How do I know that I'm wrong? If I don't know about the thing that you're telling I don't know what. I don't know exactly, so how do we even start right?

And like speaking another language, and also when when you're speaking a language that sounds talk downy because it obviously is educated or like required a diversity of opinion to arrive there, it can feel like, wow, this person thinks they're better. That just correcting someone's behavior in any like arena is going to feel like a little like, oh God, you're telling me that I did something wrong. And I think people in general just don't like to be corrected.

And also I don't know if it's like a specifically American thing, but in some ways, I mean, I'm only in American, so I don't know in any other way, but I feel like it feels very like this is who I am. Take me or leave me, like I'm grown, like gonna be who I am. Like people are not comfortable admitting when they're wrong, and so like when you tell someone like you are wrong, you just hurt me, Like people go on the defensive and the privileged thing.

I really realized that, like white privilege is the one that everybody knows of, and so they think like, oh, you're only saying that white people have privilege, and it's like, no, I'm an able bodied person. I can go to any bathroom anywhere, and I am fine right, Like I never have to think about like will my wheelchair fit in

the store? Like will I mean like and I remember I went out to dinner with a friend who's in a wheelchair, and we've never gone out to a restaurant before, and we went to a fucking restaurant and there was stairs leading into the restaurant, and I was like, oh my god. I didn't even like I never would have thought about that because I've gone to this fucking restaurant and it wasn't like a lot of stairs. It was like three stairs. And she was like it's fine, like

I know how to do it. But I also really had this moment of like, oh my god, I never think about this ever. It's not my fault, like I'm not a bad person for it, but like I had a moment of like, oh wow, like that's my privilege as an able bodied person. Um. And I think, and what you touched on in the book is that privilege just comes to me. It just means the different ways

in which people move through the world. Oh and then you have this cute story about a caterpillar in a snail going to a party, and like it explains it was very funny the way it ended. Thank you, Thanks, you know. I I often describe my work as like when you are feeding a baby like vegetables, and you like do the airplane and you're still getting the baby the veggies, but you're like here, like I just try

to take I love analogies. So I try to wrap things in like a funny joke or an analogy or like a self drag and hope that people will say, like, oh, now I get it. You're not yelling at me. You're not telling me that like I'm just a bad person. You're saying like we all have sucked up, and like here's another way to understand this fun up and like

move past it. That's great. Um, let's take a quick break and then we'll be right back with our sponsor, with our sponsor, and we'll be right back right friend, Jessica, you know, but and here's the thing. I have to be honest, I'm actually having some trouble sleeping. Oh my god. Same. I am in the market for a new mess same. Okay. So I have a really good idea for both of us. Okay, we must pursue Helix sleep mattress and pillows. Okay, listen, Helix is going to be the new frontier when it

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more time because we believe in it. Bit Helix Sleep dot Com slash Lost Culture Rests, go there now and enjoy your sleep experience. We are back with Francesco Ramsey, who I am confident to say is one of the hardest working people that seriously and seriously. I mean not even just like with the career like your I see we see you up in the jail. Listen. I think about it all the time, And now I want to just read something that you said, look at your work as a contract you have with you. I loved that

because then you go and stay getting auditions. His work posting videos is work. Even if you don't book the gig or go viral. You've still met the conditions of your contract if you do that. So, especially in this kind of career where you're kind of trying to create your own career, which is I think what we both do and you've you've done for so many years successfully. Um, just kind of at least giving yourself every opportunity to succeed, because I think such an important thing, Like can you

talk about being like a self starter? Yeah? I mean the thing is is like that specific thing is something that I learned from a girl who I was throwing mad shade at. I just thought that she was not successful. I didn't get it. I thought she was like, not that talented. And I met her at a party and she was super nice and and I said, like, how

do you do it? How do you do it all and that was the thing that she said to me, and it really shook me because I realized that I was making lots of excuses for myself, whether it was I got an audition and I only had X amount of hours to learn the side. So then I was like, well, then I'm just so I'm not going to learn it, or I'm not going to go or it's not enough times and why I try, or like I'm not even gonna like, you know, get memorized, or whatever it was.

And I was just always making excuses for myself. And I realized that at the end of the day, the only person that's responsible for my career is me, and especially as a creator, we have we have a luxury that many do not have, and that like we really

don't need somebody to offer us a job. We can't start a podcast, write a web series, go do stand up right a sketch, like, we can make stuff, and that is leaning to so many some opportunities we know in this room between us, like so many people who have television shows and nobody gave them the show they like bang down doors, they made those opportunities happen for themselves.

And so I really needed to have that experience with this this person in order to realize like, oh, it's that easy, that like I can just do the work. And at the end of the day, like you have to set goals for yourself, and if the goal is just get to the audition, then you did it. Then you did exactly what you set out to do. And so like I really just try to start. I make big goals, but I start small too, so that I

can feel like I got something done. And that's been really helpful for me, especially because the only thing that's promised to you, and it's promised to you is that you have the audition, you know what I mean, at least that much people, but don't get Listen, how many people do you know that are like guys, I'm going out to l A for pilot season and they're out there for three months and I don't get one. It's hard.

And so if like, if you have an opportunity, you gotta give yourself all the you have to drench that opportunity of all its juice, if that makes any sense. Opportunity, Well, I think well, I think the other part of this is that I think you even bring this up because it's sort of like the opposite scenario circumstance of like Okay, well then I could spend my life like this could be the alternative to me spending my time just like going online and like losing my mind. You know what

I'm saying. It's like it's like you at a certain point you have to ask yourself this hypothetical question of like, well, what would my life look like if I didn't give the time to all that other ship exactly? Like, oh, I would just be improving myself, working for myself, like creating opportunities, etcetera, etcetera. Like that is I think that is also like how it ties back into everything else in the book, is that like, look look at this whole other side of like the world that's like open

to you. Like sure, like like do what's importantly, do the work that's important, like in terms of social justice, but also like give yourself the time in the space to like just be the best version of yourself. Absolutely. And also I was kind of surprised to learn actually, um that you used to be quite the stoner. And we'll talk about talk about that. We must talk about this because I actually, as I smoke quite a bit of weed, so does Bowen. Um, I probably smoke a

little bit more than you every single day. Um, But you get into this in the book about self care about quitting you actually had to stop. And so now as of recently, I've started to realize that my memory is a little worse than I would like it to be. And so do you think that that has anything to do with that? And also because the answer is probably yes, Like when did you get to the point where you were like, do I have to stop doing this entirely? I know you talk about this in the book, but

I like everyone sure. I mean I used to be like a full blown wake and bake smoke pie every single day, and like full disclosure. If I'm at like a party and someone like offers me a hit, I'm like, all right, I'll do it. But like there was just a time where like if I didn't have weed, I was like, oh my god, I don't have any weed. Like you gotta call the guy, like what's going on?

He's not he's not texting me back, hastening, start to go downstairs and like ask the guy, Like like we had a guy in the building who was like our backup guy. Yeah, but like it's not good weed. She's in the building. You know what I mean? That building is not We're not doing high quality like lights and ship like it was like swaggy, like not cute weed. And then you have like the friend who smokes a lot of weed who can just like show up to their house and be like, how's it going, what's going

on with you? Oh? I know there's a joint here, let's smoke it. Like so like I was setting up all these scenarios like help me smoke weed, and then what I was realizing was I stopped being like a fun stoner and I started being like, have a meltdown,

start crying. I feel like my world is ending stoner where like I would just get so overwhelmed and I would either like lay in bed and do nothing, or I would like go on social media and I would see what everyone else was doing, and I would start feeling really bad about myself, and then I would start arguing with my husband and every single time he would just be like, are you stoned right now? And I was just realizing that pot was not fun for me anymore.

And I do think it was for me at least because it was an everyday thing, like start my morning stone and be stoned all day long, and then like get to two o'clock where you like feel a little like the buzz change a little bit and you're like, oh, You're like, oh god, I'm still stoned, you know. And so I think that for me, I just realized that I needed to stop smoking weed be because it just was. And the circumstance for me was that I I got

really sick. I lost my voice, and like I was like at a party and I smoked weed and then the next day I couldn't talk, and I couldn't talk for like two weeks, and like I had just been invited to go on nightly show. I was like on vacation and I got the email that was like, hey, can you go on nightly show? And I was like fuck, funck fuck, I gotta get my voice back, Like I have to get my voice back. And I'm on vacation and everyone's smoking weed and drinking and I'm not going

to do it. I'm just not going to smoke weed because I need to and my voice to come back. And so I just was like, all right, I'm quitting cold turkey. And then my voice came back like two days before I was supposed to fly back, and then I got the job, and then I realized like, Okay, I really need to like focus on this job. I'm in like a new circumstance and smoking weed is not helping me. Um. And so I had a I think I had a few times where I tried to go to work stoned and I was just like, this is

really bad. This is just like not helping me. It's stressing me out. It's not fun anymore. And rank such a bell for me just there. One time I was on my tour guide job and I had had an edible and I was like, I literally I can't really believe I even just said that, but like, but I don't have the job anymore. It's like along in the past, but who so who cares? But I was standing there and I was like, I have to talk to people like in two seconds. And I was one of the

highest I've ever been in my life, one of the highest. Um. But I was like, oh, maybe my decision making isn't

good anything. Yeah. I think I do think that you build up a tolerance and it changes like in your body, and like I've heard this about like certain foods that like if you eat a certain food all the time, that your body can just develop an allergy to it, like suddenly, like those people who are like I've drank milk my whole life, and then all of a sudden I became like super act was intolerant or suddenly I found out I had a gluten intolerance. And like, I've

eat bread my whole life. I've never it's never bothered me, and now suddenly I get like stomach cramps. I really think that happens with weed, that like if you do it a lot, that your body like can change how it reacts to it. I've had people be like, you need a different strain, and I'm like, I'm trying to do like real literally was just about to ask you, I don't think a strain like positive because there was a there was a time where it was a bad

strain and I was getting anxious every time. I also was having some tough times with relationship, and so I think that situationally and also the weed I was smoking, we're making me. Literally I think I was going to get hit by a car no matter where I was. Yeah, it was if it was on the seventh floor of a building, gonna get hit by a car. I can't explain to you how I knew a car would hit me. I have had so many friends be like, well, you need to have this kind of just like you know what.

I don't need to do research, Like that's just not in my nature. Like again, if I'm at a party and like someone offers to me and I'm like, all right, I could do like a hit. But I was at the point where like we had like a giant roar bong that was on display in our apartment all the time, and it was like whenever you came over, it was like you need to christen the roar. Like it was

like it was like a whole like a lifestyle. And I just and I was like spending so much money on it, and I just realized, like it's a lot of money. And I just like I do have some days where I'm like, God, I would love to be stoned right now, And then I think I have a lot of ship to do, Like if I got stoned right now, I would not be able to anything. I will say, I do wait until my stuff for the day is done. At least that here's the thing I I don't think for me, it's a personal thing in

the sense I don't begrudge anyone. I had some great times when I was stoned. I also sometimes realized, like when I'm recounting a time that was great when I was stoned, I was like, this is only great to me. Actually, like that funny of a story, the story, and really nothing happened. The whole story is like we were so honestly, yeah, it's so true. Like whenever we talk about we we go to Orlando like once a year, like that's like

our thing. Whenever we talked about it, we're always like and also we were high, and it just kind of sounds like okay, okay, I'm like, it sounds do she it sounds stupid. I also realized because of that I had certain friends. I mean like kind of sounds like it sounds like I had a heroin addiction that I was literally like I didn't really like you that much. Like we just got stoned together and I like didn't really know anything about you. We would just get stone

and like laugh. And now that I don't really smoke weed like that anymore, I'm just like I don't really want to hang out with you because all you do smoke weed, and like that's totally okay. But then I realized, like what do we have if not weed? We don't have anything. We literally all we have is weed, and so I don't know. Well, I'm happy I said it out loud, well just because like I don't know, Like it was so funny because like when I was in high school, it was never like you talk about starting

smoking weed. Ear Oh, So my mom read the book and when she she it wasn't a candle, she didn't. So like when I was in high school, I smoked weed every single day and I told my mother it was a candle and she did not know. And so she read the book. She didn't mention that specifically, but I know that's what she was talking about. She was like it was really great, Like she was like there are some some language, and she's like, there's also some

unknowns revealed revealed. It's like, what is this? This is like an email to HR, like what the fuck there were unknown Oh that's a great combination of words, potential title of I love finding the title. Yeah, so my mom my mom had no clue, and I really think in retrospect it was because my mom's brothers had like very serious drug problems. So my mom was like, drugs are bad, Like all drugs are terrible. So she really kind of had no understanding or concept of like casual drugs,

it should be harmless in its way. Yeah, Like to her, all drugs were like you smoke crack, like you were gonna like you're you're going to ruin your marriage and live on the street. Yeah, And like I was smoking weed every day and like getting good grades and I

was totally fine. And so she would ask me what that smell was and I was just like, Oh, it's a candle, and she just said I. Honestly, I don't even know if she knew until she read the book, because I never I never I never told her a candle that smells very specific, Like honestly, I was just I was like, what was this aromatic weed that you were a candle? Why would you want your house to smell like that. There was one other part of the book which I was like really kind of fast senated by,

and I actually read it. I read it. My father drove me back into New York today and I read this out loud to him, because God, this is so weird, I know to hear back no, but it's so cool. But wow, that is that's like, that is an honor. So there's a whole chapter in the book about hair, and I did not know many of these statistics. Well. I also underlined this sentence which I love, which is be who you needed when you were younger, which I think is just something really great too to remember. But

I just want to read this um in. In two thousands, seventeen to sixteen year old twin sisters at Boston's Mystic Valley Regional Charter School were told their braided hair extensions were quote distracting and in violation of the dress code. When they refused to quote fix their hair their natural hair that they were wearing, they were banned from extracurriculus

and prom and threatened with suspension. In two thousands sixteen, Durham School for Creative Studies made a group of students removed the head wraps they are wearing to celebrate Black History Month. In two thirteen, a private school in Orlando threatened to expel twelve year old Vanessa van Dyke, whose voluminous natural look was so fierce that I'm kind of questioning mylocks right now, and she didn't cut her shape

her hair. And then it goes on to detail many more recent occurrences of schools, charter schools, but still, um, telling these girls that they are natural hair was distracting. And you're talking about how, you know, the transition or decision to do whatever you want to with a black woman's hair or a black girl's hair is very personal and it's just time consuming and all these things. And to think that these schools are like holding it against

these people, like it's just crazy. I didn't know anything. I mean, historically, we have always been told that everything about us is wrong, from like our bodies to our noses,

to our hair to the way we speak. Like everything has been policed and really kind of shaped by this idea of like fitting into like whiteness, you know, and and and that's not to say that that doesn't happen across cultures, but for black people especially, like it is this constant struggle of like making sure that I am myself, but also like don't make people uncomfortable. You want to make sure. When I went natural, I remember my mom being like, are you gonna be able to get a job,

and me thinking like what are you talking about? But also now knowing that, like, yeah, there are people who have lost their job because they dared to wear their hair in the way that it naturally comes out of

their head. And we see this in like fashion and in entertainment where models are like, yeah, I'm basically bald now because when I show up on set, they don't know how to do my hair and they're like ripping it out or I had to put weaves in and I had to dye my hair and straighten it and damage it because I mean and even now, like I have a hair stylus that I bring with me, but I've always been used to doing my own hair because when I would help on set, no one knew how

to do my hair right, right right, And it's like that would make up as well, Oh yes, and thank goodness for Delina, but I made sure she taught me how to do my own makeup and like what foundations to bring with me, because sometimes you go on set and I can't have her there. I'm at a state or something and the person just doesn't know, they don't know, and so it is very interesting, especially because again that's not that privilege right of like why would you know that?

Like even the fact that when I was in high school, there was no natural hair care aisle in the store, and even now it's like a tiny little space. But in some stores, depending on what neighborhood you're in, there's no beauty products for me in that store. I have to go to the hood, or I have to make sure that i'm in or I go specifically to like

a black haircare. You mentioned in the book where you went to college for a short time, like the most like it was an hour that was appropriate for your hair was an hour away, an hour away, there was no one in I was living in an arbor because I was going to University of Michigan. There was no one in ann arbor who could do my hair. And I was just like, wow, I guess I'm going natural now because I can't get my primary I can't get a relaxer here. It's just so crazy. I I think

that almost nobody understands that. That's the reality I mean. And the thing that I want people to walk away with when they read this book is that there are all sorts of realities that we are not aware of. Right.

It's like, I want to speak very openly and honestly about the fact, whether it's the fact that I'm able bodied or the fact that I'm you know, sis, I can go to my doctor and I can talk to them about my healthcare needs and nobody says to me, well, have you thought about losing weight or or miss gendered me or refused certain service to me? Or I don't

have to worry about my housing. Like there are thirty eight states in this country where you can legally deny housing to somebody because they're lgbt Q, or you can fire them the majority legally, I mean, And those are things like can I would ever have to think about?

And so I really wanted to talk about this in like a comedic and approachable way, but also to say like we all have stuff that we have to learn, and we all have to have our eyes opened at some point um and it's okay, we could do it together. And it's it's you really do have such a skill and I mean, like that approachability and relatability that you have on camera, which is such a natural gift that you have. Not really media, we always sat as medium

because we do take a picture at the end. It is an important part of the listeners, Tota have no, it's a fantastic book. I have a little passage I want to read. I love a good hashtag passage. Hashtag passage. Well, guys, just picking up in store is wherever you get books. But it's just this is why I love this book.

She does not do herself the disservice of being absolutely prescriptive, because she's I mean, she's like giving you advice, but she's also backing this up with like anecdotes or with examples of which she has had to learn these things herself. It's it's so illuminating. It's so so so good. You should be so proud, you should be so good. I'm gonna read this ahead. This is towards the end of the book, but it's so good. I like gasp when I read this this passage. Oh he gasped money. Okay, great,

here we go. The world is an unwieldy Okay. The world is an unwieldy place these days, and my little corner of it. The internet is particularly stressful. It allows people to make anonymous claims without any repercussions. Many social media users seem dedicated to to taking your words out of context, to make you look stupid or worse. And the fact that we're often talking about life and death issues for people who haven't had the chance to advocate

for themselves, and you have a ticking time bomb. I'm not sure I could call myself an expert in anything other than styling my here in bad puns. But I truly believe that trying to get it right is worth something. Yeah, so good, so good, Thank you so much. Excellent, excellent,

an excellent review from Lost Cultures. Use that Pocorde. Watch when they take the hardcover back and all of a sudden there's a new book and it says Lost Cultures Approved like a Newberry Award, Like that's what I want, Like a Newberry word, like elementary school the Rule of Culture number ninety two. The Lost Cultures approval is the New Newberry Awards. Say it with me. The approval is the New Newberry Award. And matt Um, the adult version of the Newberry word is the Pulitzer Prize. I just

want to let you know, well, I have to. I have to tell you all. This is my very first podcast interview about the book, and I I am just so glad that I popped that cherry consensually with both of year and I just thank you. So, I mean, it is it is scary, but it is so scary, especially because you know again that passage was a perfect example.

I worry about people like taking things out of context or deciding that they just you know, disagree with me and they're so mad about this and that are just pulling something apart and making me say something I didn't say. It's very scary, but it feels so great and like affirming to hear that you all resonated with it and you enjoyed it and it spoke to you. And so just thank you so much for for taking the time to even read it, because many people are going to

benefit from it. And I think also something that people um forget is like I totally identify with you saying like it's a nerve wracking and it's scary to put this up because you're a very sensitive person. I mean you have to be to be this sensitive to all these issues, and you see, like you putting on this sort of brave and very public face and dealing with this difficult, tough stuff, especially coming from a marginalized perspective where where you know sometimes it can feel like the

world is just ready to jump down your throat. And so this is, you know, not this is kind of like you throw this around life lightly, but like this is a brave thing to step forward and say, here's my mistakes, here's my successes, and here is how you can learn from them seriously and edifying read. Okay, and

edifying read. That's another We're on speaking. We are going to move on because speaking of um, you know people who step forward bravely, we do have a Yes, I'm happy you're pouring the line because I'm gonna need some of it. Um, this is a friend of ours who's who's decided to he's elected to participate in our voice, ma'am. This is UM a voice nomber from a friend of ours. Dylan Marin and Lin maryn will be with us in

a couple of short weeks. You guys love Dylan. Dylan is a fabulous specimen, true, and I want to tell him something over the over the air, and I know, hell, listen to this episode here, you're look like a hunk in your Ted Talk with those little pearl airrings. He looked good the Ted Talk a speaker with a pearl airing. Ted Talk painting category is ted talk. Okay, this is a voice member from Dylan Mary and I think Dylan is doing a little his own little take on a

popular segment on this show. Let's take a listen that, Bowen, Francesco, is your daughter, Dylan marrin hallway to the acoustics are good for I do think so, honey. So I'll begin, I do think so, honey, Matt Rogers and then you are so fucky talented, incredible. If they sold v I P courtside season tickets to the Matt Rogers Experience, I would buy them with the black m X card that I do not have. You would see me cheering you on like that Drake Gift where he's clapping in a

basketball game, because you are that fucking good. Do you think so, honey? Bowen? Ye? If you had attended the performing arts day camp that I went to for six years, I would have been so fucking intimidated by you. I would have made up an excuse not to like you, because I would have felt insecure next to your gifted ass. So lucky me now, as a more confident adult, regularly text you to tell you how much you mean to me, because you do and finally, I do think so, honey,

Francesca Ramsey. Already everyone already knows that you slay it literally everything you do. But what they don't know is that you're an amazing friend and a support system and a mentor. And deal with it, babe, because until your lawyers specifically asked me not to, I will continue to send you bad pop songs on Ironically Love because I want to share them for the person I love, which is you. So whoops, I do think so, honey, Francesca

rams My. Oh my god. Dylan Marrin, I love him so much also because he is when he when he becomes extremely famous, someone is going to have a field day impersonating him. I'm Dylan Marrin like he just gives you the boy. But I'm saying is he is an icon the nicest Okay, so Dylan wrote on My Pilot.

And I remember one time we were trying to come up with like insults for a straight woman, and I think I think eventually we used like a population pantry was the But everybody was going around and pitching ideas for like ways to just like ship on straight women, and Dylan was like, I've got one. You woman like

he couldn't do it because she's so nice. It was the funniest thing I've ever experienced because I was just like, you are the sweetest guy, and it was so funny because he was trying so hard and I was like, I love you so much. You are just like the most genuinely good and nice person. And to circle back to the book, I had so many times that I called Dylan crying and I was like, should I tell this story in the book? And Dylan was like, you're fine,

You're fine, send it to me. Like I would send him stuff and I would just be like, tell me what you think of this, and he would just like be so affirming and just he is just such a good soul like that you really don't find many people. It's also not a brand, it's not up front. He's exactly the way. He's exactly the way you think he would be when you watch his videos, and he's great.

He makes you want to be a better person because sometimes I want to send him like a shady text and I'm like, you know what, Dylan does not need this negativity. Every time I talked to him, I have that thought. I'm like, no, I can't. Sometimes I am a little shady like that is part of who I am.

And it's true, like whenever, like Dylan's looking at you and like you don't know if he's gonna like just appened in the shade, like and he'll sometimes give you a knowing look like, girl, I understand the shade, but I don't know if I've ever heard him you actually actually and he revealed it. He lets it out, he lets it out, and I'm gonna I think he's okay

with me with me saying this. I was on the phone with him today because I was explaining, like what you needed to send in for this pice moment, and then he was like, oh, I got it. He was like, So, Matt and I did these interviews with people at trybeca film festival, and we interviewed Ansel l Go and Sticky Waterhouse, this some British actress. And then so Dylan was like, oh my god, I love the interview with Ansel and who is that? Who is that actress? And I was like, oh,

Stucky Waterhouse, she's great. She's she's like, you know, like one of those like posh British actresses, actress models. And then Dylan goes, oh, yeah, you know, I probably like wait out on like the millionth iteration of her back at my restaurant. And I was like, Dylan, and then I didn't even know. I didn't I didn't even like call that out or anything. I didn't even react to that. He he pulled himself back and was like, wait, now that's you know what. That's too mean to take that back.

And it was like, Dylan, it's out there now, and you said something correct and everyone knows. That felt like the most innocuous thing. I was like, where is the shape where he's such a sweetheart, such a sweetheart, and he's going to be on our show, you guys, to promote his ted talk. We're gonna talk to him. I'm in just a short couple of weeks or a couple of weeks boiler alert. I mean it's online, but he gets an immediate standing out. Really yeah, have you seen it?

I haven't seen it? Good it's so good. Um, But anyway, now I'm gonna watch it. I'm gonna watch it, all right, So is it time? It's time? It's time for I don't think so, honey. And we're gonna get you on a live show, one of these things time every time I have something, I'm not here. You're busy, She's busy. But the thing is guys, Um, just quick little plug before we continue. Are you coming to see us at Vulture Fest on May nineteenth, Saturday, May Nineteenth's just in

a few short days at age thirty. Are you coming to see us in Los Angeles at Eco Plex on June twelve? Are you coming to these events? Are you coming to see us at Cluster Fes on Saturday, January two, Comedy Centrals cluster Fest. We're gonna be at four pm. Well, if you're not going to go to go to any

of those things, at least come to another. Two events that we're doing at Vulture Festival or Hounding the RuPaul's, Raggy's panel, and we're moderating the Wendy Williams which is going to be very interesting because like Wendy, I'm like, oh my god, I really want to do her show. I want to do her show so badly. She'll say, how are you doing, Wendy, Like and I want to.

I have to think about and I'm just like letting this all out and airing this out publicly, like on the record, Like she is someone who everyone I feel like goes back and forth on, but she's just so good. She's good, she's great. When she's good, she's great, And when she's problematic, she's problematic a f which is like why I would love to do her show, because I like I can tell her about herself, but about myself, do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like

we can have a very receptive to you. I feel like we could have a great shady conversation, but also just like a self reflective YEA. Well, she is I think open to a good deal of shade because she dishes it out and she knows how to take it. And also I mean I think she knows how to take it only when a guest comes on her show and is Comarosa level Messi or Befani messy. You have to be open to like you can dish it and take it. And I think that that's what she respects.

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that is major. Y'all are booked and Fussy comes us share the stage with this. We will Monny Williams and the Drag Race Queens and it's going to be very fun and also our own show at Vulture, Fast, Cluster Fast, and uh, let's see June twelve, l A and then June nine at the Bellhouse, you guys, is gonna be so I'm comfortable going first. You can go first. This is Matt Rodgers, and I hope, I hope that you're okay with me doing this. Oh

my god, Well that's a terrible disclaimer. This is Matt Rodgers. Is I don't think so many as times starts now. I don't think so, honey, that it has taken us this long to quote unquote officially cancel R Kelly. Let me tell you something canceled when he i to marry a thirteen year old Let me repeat thirteen year old. Yeah. In the words of my co host Bowen Yang, coats are so ninety eight, babe. Ain't nothing wrong with a little bit of bumping grind, but there is definitely wrong

with imprisoning women. You are starting a sex cult. Bitch. Look, I'm sorry, but there is an article out right now which is detailing forty three celebrities that have worked with R. Kelly, and every every single picture it says the representative declined to comment. Here's what you say. My client denounces are Kelly is done. Take the key out of the ignition. Honey, I don't know if I can top that. Is well, I did use two jokes that Bowen Yang has said before,

but I did I have the bibliography. I was like, I don't see nothing wrong with quoting than that was also an arc, absolutely, and we're allowed to quote, but we're not using against And here's the thing, guys, No, it's over. And why does Chris Brown have a grand after hitting Rihanna, not even hitting beating up almost killing you? Really, you really have to get it together with these people. If they've done something dangerous, they're done. Guys, they're done.

There's no discussion. There is a nostalgia element that you can keep to your goddamn self, but it's not. But they're done. Like I want, every last culture is a listening to the r. Kelly is officially done and we're not We're not going to continue this conversation for sixteen more years. Thank you. There you go. I mean mine is not going to be as like fire as that, but let's let's go. This is gonna yourself short, I thank you. This is I mean, I'm just saying this

is gonna be much more frivolous and silly. It's okay, okay, okay, all of them we need, okay, perfect and bowen yanks. I don't think so, honey. On this episode begins now, I don't think so, honey. Theatrical spaces that are not in the round, honey. We went to once on this Island on Broadway, a circle of the square theater and not a bad seed in the house, because you know why it was in the round. Everyone enjoys that no

one gets a bad beew. We were in the Last Road and the nose bleeds, and I loved Hayley Kilgore belding out those notes. Tony nomination, Tony Kilgore. Um, oh my god. If you're just looks to the normal layout of theatrical spaces, we're not Rome anymore. Bits, okay, we are. We are in the new the new age of theater. Circle on the square knows what they're doing. I want everything in the round. Second for good immersive experiences too.

We had Lias Alonga running up and down those mention her mention her last a longa iconic and the other one oh and um, oh my god, who, who, oh my god, amazing. I I was not forgetting her. I was not being willfully up to and forgetting. And that's that's I have not heard. And I tweeted at her and she faved and faved, and she retweeted and made it a little comment herself. She said, what a blessing. Thank you for the continued support. What a blessing. And I said, Tomira Gray is a sligh and Once on

this Island. She plays the concept of death. She is so talented and I'm crazy. I'm happy to hear this. You should you should go see Once. On the side of that, I remember seeing that show in high school, I at a local school and being blown it was not in the round. But I'm excited to see you are right about this because the in the round experience, there is not a bad scene in the house. And also the freedom that the actors have to be able to act in a Yeah, exactly, because you got to

act with your back. You got to act with your back. That's the whole different side. This girl that plays the lead, Haley Kilgore, she's a slick phenomenal And Leah Salanga should be named Queen to my regrets, should be named Queen. We did not see Alex Newell, but her is incredible and the understudy was fabulous. We also didn't see Norman Lewis, who I guess is in it a lot. But but the cast was very good. And put it on your list, you must. It just scored many Tony nominations and it

doesn't have an end date. They're trying to keep it open as long as possible. Okay, Francesca, ready, are you ready? This is Francesco Ramsey's I don't think so, honey. Her time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Playing devil's advocate, the devil needs you to advocate for him. I don't think so, honey. The devil is busy all the goddamn time. You don't need you to help. Why don't you just put it out there that you think those bigger ass opinions you ain't standing up for the devil. I don't

need that to hear. You have your opinions about like the gays, about racism, about privilege, like no a bit. Say what you say and feel what you feel. Okay, you like the devil. He knows, he's dressed, he's fresh, he's he comes. He doesn't need you to work for him or speak on his we hand. Don't even slide up in my d M or in my comments or in my emails, and definitely do not disrupt my Thanksgiving dinner with your devil. Dadvocate asked, you can keep it. I do not think so, hunt me. What a nothing

embellishment to anything at all? Why do you say that, say that you actually think that shitty thing. Yes, it's like a get out of jail free card, but but it's not. It's not. And also this is just funny because on our live show Mitro drew Hai and now over a year ago, did I don't think so, hony Devil's advocate and she was like, she was like, it's the devil. Why would you advocate for him? You know what, somebody needs to think about him. Yes, and this is

actually you guys won't ever get to hear this. But the last one you did, which we love, it was too hot for air or our computers because the whole thing messing down. But you said I don't think so, honey. People saying can I pick your brain? Can listen if you email me and say can I pick your brain? Like I automatically do not want to read the rest of your email if you want to pick Francesco Ramsey's brain,

pick up the book. Well, that escalated quickly. I'm here, got the promo and I want to say one more time, I love this book so that this is a really good and it's it's funny, it's entertaining, it's relatable, and you will learn a lot. Especially at the end there is um Francesca's simple explanation of not so simple concepts, and um, it's really great. It's just a really maybe And honestly, even if you consider yourself like a quote unquote woke person, I guarantee there's something in here that

you'll learn and be able to take away. And I love it. I think it's going to be a huge success. Thank you so much. I'm this was a great like way to kind of full circle moment from that lost lost up to now. And you'll never know the specifics of what what what went down with Taragi behind the scenes, but just the Tarai is amazing. Yes, oh my god, life change. Thank you, Thank you for having me. Congratulations. I'm so excited to see all of the cool stuff

you all are working on. I always feel very special when I see other people tweeting about you or sharing some about you. I'm like, I know them. Those are my boys. Um so yeah, I just keep slaying and thank you for letting me be part of your glow up. You're doing, you're doing. And also we got to say the picture on the book is looking very fresh. I also love this yellow top. Thank you yellow. You need a pop of color. Thank you, thank you. Okay, we gotta we always close it the song I think I

have one? What's the song? Baby? Sitting up my room? Thing about you? I must cool? Best im? That's what you say? Nothing my room, think about Yeah, I love somebody. It's so must nice you cry? Have you ever honey? And it's or something? Have you ever tried to do? Coming? All? Right? Boy is my up? I'm HadAM about in it? Dissy, the boy is mine? Bye, Forever Do. This has been a Forever Dog production executive produced by Brett Bahum, Joe Silio,

and Alex Ramsey. For more original podcasts, please visit Forever Dog Podcasts dot com and subscribe to our shows on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Keep up with the latest Forever Dog news by following us on Twitter. And Instagram at Forever Dog Team and liking our page on Facebook