"Uncertainty The Haus Down" (w/ Jared Frieder)

the world every celebration. They should be saying, so raise your class if you are wrong and all the right ways, which is a song for all the freaks, the fags, the weirdos, the outcasts, but all the side of the trap, every space bar Mitzvah's bought, Mitzvah's, the Mitzvah's, I'm sorry we have to give a nod to And just like that, graduations, weddings, funerals sing this song. Can I say, it's interesting that you sort of went to the mitzvah of it all? Yes,

because I didn't mean to know you did. I gotta says, someone who has a Jewish family, not my own, but a your sister is married to a Jewish man is a Jewish family. And now we said it, and I will probably have to spend at least two million dollars on my nieces because can I say those gorgeous girls are going to have insane bott mitze as I know it. I really think I hope that their obsession for Minnie Mouse carries on into Are they obsessed with Mini Mouse?

Ellie is Obsie, Sophie's obsessed with Minimouse. Oh my god, She's one of the most beautiful women, one of the most beautiful men in the world. And Sophie Sophie sees Mini Mouse. Anytime she sees Mini Masi goos Mouse, you would fucking melt at the site because you know who I was obsessed with Mini Daisy. Neither of the girls. Donald Duck, I was a Donald boy like simple for Donald Donald and king simpering whimpering child again bewitched you.

My girl is not a Kingdom Hearts girl. Donald Duck was your magic user, so Goofy Goofy was your tank, and he took the damage, and he fought with the shield. Was so cute. But Donald fought with stabs and Donald

could cast spells. And then anytime you were low on health, my Kingdom Hearts readers publicists know you'd hear Donald going and you you knew you were safe when Donald would cure you and go Sarah because that your character's name was Sarah, and then Donald would go it Sarah, I didn't know you had a donal or Donald bad Donald. But then if you were, like if you were fighting with other heroes in other worlds, she'd be like more that. He'd be like Bell. You can't fight with Bell, but

he's like, like, who knew I could do that? Matt, You've always had You've always had Donald Donald the house. Now I think the three of us are all Donald's in this room. I don't know. You don't you don't think. I think three of us are all a little anxious like you think. So you feel this way. I think I think you're a daffy, and then me and the guest are Donald's. You think I'm daffy? Why do you insult me? So that's not an insult. Daffy duck Ken had its caring is carrying if you are if you

have Daffy in you, you are carrying. That's real culture number seventeen. If you have daffy in you, you are carrying. The reason I said it was iconic that you brought up the bar, bought mitzvah of it all is because you know, I know the guests quite well, um our guest today on the episode, and I actually can reveal now that their bar mitzvah theme was live from New York.

It's Jared's Night, which is interesting because it crosses over sort of with your culture and it's only it only was that because he wanted to have a Wicked themed bar mitzvah but it was deemed too and so why not scope out Wicked too Broadway and then scope out Broadway to live from New York. So I guess like it's like so in a sense, really, in having live from New York at Jared's Night, there probably was like

a wicked table? Was there a wicked table? Don't verbally confirm great, because you don't exist yet in the podcast space. We haven't brought you in them. And this is my thing. I think we are coming out of a generation. I think that I think the kids now, God bless them, are like being friends with their fellow queer like classmates. Would I have been invited to that? I wonder, you know, like if we'd all gone to the same school. We talk often, you and I and also the guest DENI.

I don't know if you guys have had this conversation. I don't we have been friends during a high school period. I think I would have been friends with both of you. I am convinced, and this is not I don't think this is like a character flaw on either of us. I think we would have both like been too intimidated by the other. I been like, I'm gonna keep my distance. That's Matt Rodgers. I don't know what his deal is.

I don't know. I haven't really you know, I think we would have been friends at school and we would have even done like Matt, you and I like we we did not hit it off right away when we met in college. That's because you were noxious to me. And this is this is actually the way our relationships started was bones. We've been over this song for the improv group at my school and I was really excited group, and he came over and sort of like, so I

heard your auditioning fast forward. I was mean, noxious, whatever, terrible, And then he and I bonded over Romans Revenge and or super Base coming on at a party when back when those were two deep cuts off of Pink Friday. There you go, and it's been smooth sailing ever since.

Not a damn hitch speaking of sailing um Florida, Florida to news that Florida's always in and it's going to be really in the news starting Wednesday today today, starting today, Florida's actually major early in the news because Florida is the setting Miami, specifically for the film three Months which stars.

Get this, Troice Savan, Get this, Judy Greer, get this, Ellen Burston, Wow, Get this Roy Gossa Jr. Get this Louis Gossa Jr. Get this Louis Gossa Jr. Amazing, And get this the Vek Calera, get this brand shoe and a host of Florida the best. This movie a star studded. And here's the thing about movies. It really can only be performed. There's a there's a script, so there has to at the very beginning of the process. Maybe this is like a peak behind the curtain. There is how

movies get made. Movie magic. Movie, This is movie magic. First. You need to script first, you need to script germ of an idea that gets put on the page, and you need a director. Every now and then in a blue moon you get what's called a writer, director and a tour. And this is that tour means not tour is just anyone who literally um writes something you are you are an autour. I don't know what. Also, I've just got to say what it's a truth thrill that he's here with us, an autour who I think does

his job. This is this is, this is, this is my dream of a director of an autour, even someone who does the job so well. And yet I will, I will, I will put him together with Andrew On, someone who is like not going to like really like push too much, like the identity of I'm really good at what I do, and yet he's really good at what he does and doesn't do you know what I mean? Yeah, is this coming off the wrong way? It's coming off

the right way. What you're saying is this is a controlled person who knew their vision and saw it through and we'm and it's really great and it's got like such a specific like signature aesthetic. And you know in the trailer they say it is from an emerging voice. They don't just say right from writer and director the name. They say it's an emerging voice, which I think is very apt. And I'm extremely proud of our guest and

he's going to tell us all about the movie. I loved the movie so much, And well we're gonna gush and gush and gush to him to his space so that he can respond. And you know that we could say the person that that's the guest on the episodes that I have sort of been a character in the show, you know what I mean, someone you've dated interesting might can't confirm our deny might sort of play into I don't know how public he wants to be about our relationship.

I know I know, and how we have to respect. I wonder if it will be in his Wikipedia. Jared Freeder dated Matt Rogers. There is a there is like a listical thing, you know, one of those bad listicals. They're net worth seven dollars and I'm like, where's that money? Oh? They think mine is like two million, and I'm like, honey. My favorite is that they think that the guests dog is my dog has one dog named Jane. We must talk about Jane. We talk Jane. Everyone welcomes someone who

on ironically loves the song. We don't talk about Bruno, the writer director of three Months. Jared Freeder, how you feeling? Wow? I've always wanted to go to the circus? Would you consider this clown parade? I would consider this clown on College to the clown parade. So maybe like it's sort of like we're going to graduate pretty soon. What is the pipeline? Is it clown College to clown parade and

then clown Brigade? Yes? I think the brigade brigade by definition is big parade and then showtime and the time, which is Matt's new home. Well, listen, um, congrats on making a film. Thank you girl. How does it feel now that I Okay, we're recording this before it's out in the world, So let's just have you pretend, for temporal manipulation sake, that it's come out and that you can like fast forward and you feel yourself like, wow, it's out or what are you anticipating feeling when when

the movie is likely available? I have no idea. This whole thing has been pretty surreal. Um, I'm like very excited to get really really stoned on Wednesday and just like red ms from gay kids in Arkansas being like, thank you for making me feel less alone. That's truly the dream, that's my only expect and that's basically guarantee. I really it really is. And that's what's so great.

Like and the thing is, like, do you get bogged down in the biz like of like so many things like it's and then you realize, like when when someone reaches out and they're like, hey, I was moved by this and helped by this, and that's just the bare minimum some people, like, especially with this movie, like and I would love to for you to tell everyone like what it's about and where it came from. But with this movie, people are going to be really moved. And I mean I was moved, and like I I just

I think I speak for like all queer people. I just I just really want everyone to get on their Paramount plus today or in the coming days and watch this because it's really fucking great, really great. Thank you girls, tell us what the movie is about, where it came from, all this stuff. Just so. It's called three Months, um, and it's loosely based on my homosexual life and it's about just in case you guys didn't know, Matthew, write that down. UM it's okay, yeah, we'll get to that. UM.

So don't mean to me. This is this is my one chance to talk to your demo about what the truth feels like. I said, Pink, no, but it's okay the same the were allowed to sort of because we gave Pink so much at the top of the episode, we can humble her. Honestly, she deserves it. UM. So it's basically it's called Three Months and it's about this kid named Caleb who is graduating high school UM and is going through a breakup and on the eve of

his graduation, he's exposed to HIV. Takes place in two thousand eleven in South Florida and he has to wait the three months it takes to find out what his HIV status is and while he waits, he falls in love with someone who's also waiting. UM. But it's like a I know it sounds dark and there are serious themes and topics, but it is a comedy. It's like such a blast start to finish, UM. And it's a story I like wrote almost a decade ago. But you guys know how hard it is to get gay ship made.

It's like fucking impossible. And so this is like truly the Catwoman of the game movie world, Like it's had nine lives as a movie and then a TV show and finally a movie again, and I think the weirdest thing about it, and Matt was there the whole time, truly. But you know, we went into production on March, not sure if you girls remember what happened right after that.

That was a big storm there was. It was a storm, Hurricane Rhona came and rained down on us UM and we had to shut down after two weeks of filming. And you know, we waited for seven months, never knowing if we were actually going to finish. This is a movie about waiting in uncertainty because of a virus, and

the movie was literally waiting and certainly never thematically connected that. Yeah, it was a lot, and so you know, it's also a movie about like waiting and how waiting is a part of the human experience and you have to fight for what you want and what you love while you wait.

And I felt like this was like I felt a little bit not to be this egocentric, but a little bit like job from the Bible, where like this was my ultimate test to see if I could sort of um encapsulate the feeling and the themes of the film and fighting for it. So we came back and we did and we finished and it's out today on Paramount Plus.

It's been crazy. I've only peripherally followed you on this journey because I remember just like hearing the updates that like, oh, like production shutdown of course because of COVID, and for like the seven months intervening between that and when you guys started up again, like I would be hanging out with you and you show me, like, you know, pictures from set from monitor like monitor shots and be like, I don't know when we'll do it again, but look

at this, and I was like, that's the most gorgeous shot I've ever seen. And I'm like, at that this, and I remember for that period, what March t October, just thinking, God, I really hope Jared gets to make this again soon. And yeah, I know, of course, and like it is not no one would begrudge you for like comparing it to Joe, because it is filmmaking. When you're especially in your position, it can only feel like something of like biblical proportions because it's so fucking hard.

And I know it sounds like such an industry circle Dirk kind of thing when people like talk about this stuff like on either like we as actors Matt and I talking about it like it's sometimes it feels a little bit masturbatory, but it's like no, like when you're in it, it really the stakes feels, for whatever reason, so high, and this is to bring it back to you, Like this was so laid in with like I don't know, like hardship and all these different obstacles and for for

for this to be the product in the end is so so so great. Thank you. Yeah, I mean it's so painful, but like we it's going to be a great year of like queer movies, which I don't think people understand like how rare and heart it is. I mean, we have amazing Fire Island coming out. There's bros, there's three months. There's so many queer movies coming out this year. And when I tell you again, it's just like near fucking impossible to make that happen. And I don't know

what's going on. America is getting gay or thank god, um, but the kids are going to be eating the little the little fagolas, especially because it's on a paramount plus which I feel like they're gonna watching All Stars and then they're gonna be watching and they're gonna be flipping back and forth. They're gonna be saying should we watch on tuck or three months? That's what's gonna happen on Friday, and hopefully they watched both at the same time. To TV. Yeah, yeah,

this is actually a huge hack, right yeah. Film, if you're not watching three months, you are. But that's another thing is just like it's it's so difficult to get things made, and like obviously, like you can't necessarily be super honest about like every single thing you go through because it's like it's it's laden with so much stuff.

But when it's you, when it's something that's so close your story, and the fact that like you know, you hear sometimes in Hollywood or whatever, like you know, it took forty years to make The Wife, you know what I mean. Like it's like but like literally it's been how many years. It's been nine years? Nine years, And it was a show that was like supposed to go and it was like all these different forms and etcetera.

And then you know you're making it and sometimes it then the fucking pandemic and it just feels like one thing after another. And meanwhile, it's anyone would be emotional about investing that time energy into anything. But this is

like something that you said was semi autobiographic, super personal. Yeah. Yeah, So basically when I was graduating from college, Um, I went through experience and experience where I had sex with someone who found out they were pausing a condom broke and I had to wait to find out if I had it too. And it was a really interesting time in my life because the time before prep which was which was time before panicked time, Like yeah, I mean

there's just the anxiety. You know. I feel like us as gay men, we are programmed and hardwired to be so scared of HIV and it was like the Boogeyman growing up. I mean I remember coming out. One of the first things, you know, people would say to me is, you know, I grew up in the public school system in Florida, so like truly trash on trash on trash, but you know, we didn't have correct education at that

time to learn that. You know, when you have access to medical care, HIV is no longer a death sentence and you equals you and um, which is the line I'm so happy we put in the movie UM, and it's just it's it's you know, people can like fall in love and live their dreams and do everything they've always wanted to do. And I hope if people really take that away from this film, because that was something I had to take away and learn from that experience.

And um, you know, I don't know, I'm really excited for people to see it. Man. Matt brought this up last night Will Be Hung Out with You, and he was like, you know, what's so so perfectly treated in this movie is the way that the HIV concept is never so heavily presented. You know, It's like this character Caleb is just thinking about it in terms of like wow,

like it's it's it's ever that fatal. And so he's and like as he's like on this journey of like kind of you know, reckoning with this potentiality of him being a TV positive, he's watching the real world San Francisco and going wow, Like there's this like actual application, that lived in experience of someone who is a j V positive living his life in a very complete, fulfilled way.

And like I feel like it's you. You. You weave these things and bring them together so well that like it never feels like something that's like the stakes are like so so bleak. There's no there's no despairing in his journey, which I think is so unbelievably rare freed.

I mean, it's it's it's it's unbelievably so so so like, I don't know what am I trying to say, like graceful of you think that it's it's really it feels like it feels like a first Yeah, it felt so novel because I think that when when when people are going to hear like it's a it's a comedy, it's a it's a it's a drama about you know, the

potential of contracting HIV and it's a young person. It's like, oh, like and I think we are sort of triggered by the letters HIV to think, oh sad, you know, because there's so much despairing and there's so much tragedy, and you know, I actually had an extremely We recently viewed Fire Island again and I had an extremely emotional reaction because it's hard to not reckon with. It's just it's something.

It's a part of the fabric of being queer communal history. Yes, And so that's what I love about this movie too, is it's it's sort of saying like his doctor is never looking at him in the eyes and being like this is really serious, you know what I mean, Like can you speak to that? Yeah? I mean played by the amazing Who's my Hamilton's God. He is the nicest the most time. I mean I I basically wrote this part for him, and he was one of the first people we cast in the film openly HIV positive and

just a huge inspiration for me. But you know, it's all about tone, right, Like tone was in Tone was paramount and and figuring out the balance and the type paramount plus um. But like Walking, the tight rope of tone was really important because I wanted this to be a hopeful film for people. I wanted it to be fun, but I also wanted to talk about things that are

important to me and things that I've learned. And you know, this is really a movie that I wished I could have had when I was growing up as a kid, and that was top of mind. But for me, it's all about tone, tone, tone. My favorite movies are ones that walk that that that tight wrote, you know what I mean, Like Juno was a huge tonal inspiration I was,

and it's the same it's people who produced it. Yeah, so like in a very full circle moment, the producers of Juneo read the script after other producers had dropped out in one of the you know deaths, and they invited me over like the day after they read it, and they were like, we want to help you make

this movie with MTV Studios. And it was truly a dream come true because, um, I remember it not a spoiler, but this was one of the things I was thinking you up for My culture was Juno because I was like, unfortunately a gross Tracy flick in high school where I like needed to get every straight a and be captain of everything so I could get the funk out of Florida. It was a lot of that's little best little boy in the world, in the world. Yes, um and uh.

The only time I ever skipped school was to go to the theater and see Juno when I was a senior,

and my mind was truly blown. And obviously that character is straight, but there's something about Elliott's performance where it felt inherently there was something about it where I just couldn't put my finger on it, but I was so affected by it, and it was the first time as a kid, I had seen a film that talked about something that was somewhat taboo or something that wasn't often talked about in a way that was funny and light and hopeful and accessible, and I was like, oh, I

want to do that. I want to emulate that and and tell important stories, but you know, with a nice little lip sync in a mini mart with fucking my favorite pop star in the whole godsdamn world. Yeah, let's

talk about that for a second. Because the this, this, the situation is it stars Troy Savon, who is again like it feels like a meeting of project and star, which I'm so excited for him and for you, the creator of this movie, because I personally I think he's so talented, but did not know he was capable of this. I mean, I just love to see it. I mean, he gives such a understated yet like complex performance because

he is scared, he is afraid. I mean, you are living in a place of fear that entire time, but yet he still carries with him a lightness and he is just so comfortable with the comedy and with your writing. And I mean, I think I can't. I'm not I'm not I don't think I'm saying anything crazy when I say Diablo is obviously an influence and you're writing like there is like a lot of um yeah, right, there's a lot of punch and writing and you have to

be a funny performer. And like I did not know, Like you wouldn't look at Troy Savon on stage singing my My May and bloom and think he's gonna be really funny actor, you know what? And yet he is And can you speak to working with him and how he got involved? Yeah? So, I mean the thing with Caleb is I wrote the kid I wished I could have been in high school. Um, And Troy is literally just the kid I wished I could have been in high school. He's so effortlessly cool and just embodied every

element of this character. And um, the love interest Esta, played by the Vet Colera. Um, he's fantastic. He's like, it's really insane, how incredible of a capital a actor he is. But I I was an Esta growing up. You know what that monologue he gives, Oh I I, Oh my god, I related so hard. I'm well, that's

my bet, that's my that's me. I've never written from the heart like I have with that monologue, like just about shame and you know, being trying to be the perfect little gay boy, so that this other part of me that I'm scared of, I'm scared for everyone to see, um, trying to overcome and safe for that. Um and just the way he access that was crazy. So you know that's who I was in high school. I was an

Esta and Troy just like he just got it. First of all, he's like a nice Jewish boy, which we obviously immediately connected on that, but um, he's like I know, it's like woman who gets it or whatever, but like he's like a gay who gets it. And you wouldn't necessarily think that because you know, he is this pop star, he is larger than life and cool. But when you meet him, he's just like he's very you know, he could be at a bar on a Saturday night, you know,

like chatting a chatting a way. So it was it was really it was really cool. And he's such a hard worker and um, you know he started off and acting right right, And I think that people don't know that this baby Wolverine. Yeah I didn't know that until this moment. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes queer as icons? Should we cut that? Just kidding? I think we should leave it him. I'm no comments. Troy is amazing in

the film, and that That's another thing. Is I I forget like or I I understand more and more and more work. It's like the director is everything. So what's your working relationship with him? Like, like what's that? Like, what's that duet? Like? I mean, it's it's really fun

for me. The thing that that surprised me the most about directing that I did not know it is like you think people come in with their like huge megaphone and they just like give orders and like everyone and like there is a little bit of that, but it really is just like about listening to people. And I feel like I've always been a really great listener. As you know, I was in a relationship with Matt Rogers, so um, that is a prerequisite. Um I only get

three of those, so that was one. Um. But you know, it's it's I'm a I'm a really good listener. I'm a really good collaborator. And basically, you know, we just got to the emotional truth of the scene. But the funny, the funny thing about Troy is, you know, this is the first time he's doing a comedy, so you know, you're obviously talking about serious themes. And then I would

I would have to like constantly remind him. I was like, no, no, no, but this is a funny scene, and he'd be like, oh, all right, and we would just sort of work through tone first, and um. You know, there's also a lot

of different um characters with different identities and backgrounds. And I'm also someone who like defers to the actors lived experience for that for that part, Like with the ve guy rewrote this role almost every single day, every single the monologues, all the stuff, because he was like, well, this is more true to my experience as an Indian person. With Brianna was like, this is more true to my experience as an Indonesian Chinese American. You know, same thing

with Lucasa Jr. As a as an African American. So with with Troy. You know, Judaism plays a huge part in this movie, and um it delves into like the Orthodox communities relationship with queerness, which is not always spoiler alert um cute um. So it was basically like, so listen, my dad's religious Jew and I would love to put something in here that reflected like Judaism in a positive light.

And so there's a there's a sequence out when they're on a playground and they're underneath and basically Esta says te Quayleb, do you like being Jewish? And he sort of went into that too. So it is like a back and forth. To me, it is like such a blessing to be able to work with some of your idols and all these creative people and finding the best answer. And it's never it's never solely in your brain. It is like a symphony of Yeah, I was thinking about

you in a way. I'm not in a way. I just was literally thinking about you as I was watching the movie and going wow, I just really I really can so clearly picture Jared being on set with Ellen, Judy, Troy, like Lou like all of these people that like I'm sure you've like looked up to you and like we're so excited to work with and going yeah, like all I see it so clearly like you being this like steady presence on in that environment, going knowing how to

sort of catered all them, make them feel cared for. I mean, like I feel like you are very much a caretaker. You know, that's so funny that you mentioned that, because there are roses and there are a gardener flowers, and as you know, Matthew Rogers, flower on flower and flower, that's what That's what happens when your en Pisces rising, Pisces cancer Moon. Honey, I'm a Leo rising Leo, and I should be a flower, and at times I am

a flower. But um, I mean when Ellen first stepped on set and did her first scene, I was literally clutching my producer's arms and being like, never let me forget this moment. It's, I mean, just one of the reasons I wanted to become a filmmaker. Like her movies, you know, Alison Fucking The Exorcist and Last Picture Show. I was like, I can't believe this person is here saying my lines like she means them. And it was like, truly,

truly share. That character is so great. Yeah, based off my own grandma, who I literally lost in the middle of the pandemic, who never got to see the film. So it's like one of these things where it's just like I wanted to do her proud, but like Ellen like emulated her hair in her Brooklyn accent, and we worked so hard on character to figure out how she could like inhabit this character who was essentially my grandma,

which is again like so trippy. I mean, pinch me, like take it with me until like Croaks or five. So when you watch the film, what is your biggest regret? When I watched the film, I think that there's I feel like there's so here's the scene that was cut that I feel so, here's the team. Someone flew all the way out to Atlanta. When I was in pre production of this film three months, I was dating what I would call an actor at the time. Um, and I identify I as an actors as an actor for

two days he identified as a dancer. And I'll get to that later. Oh yeah, and I think we're going to bring that up job. Okay, don't prank me and expect me not to bring it up on your path. I brought it up. I mentioned it all. Yeah, Okay, well I haven't so. Um there Matt was. We were talking about it and I wanted Matt to visit me on set and I was like, there is this role, but it's probably gonna get cut. I told you in advance. You did tell me in advance, but I thought I

did such a stunning performance. What I will say, certainly, it would be what I will say. Here's what i'll say. Here's what I'll say. Matt and Troy great scene partners, Great, incredible,

We're in a moment. Yeah. Basically the scene was like Troy comes up to the bar in orders to drink and he has like a shitty fake idea and I'm this bartender and I was like, um, I look at the idea and I know it's fake, but I give him drink anyway, and I'm like hitting on him and he's like, oh, like, um, you shouldn't hit on me. I'm over there with like these the pause people, and then I reveal that I'm pausing. It's not a big deal. I have an extremely active sex life. And it was

like a cute little interplay between us. And then like, um, because he's like a dick to me, I'm like you better tip and I go away, just a little cameo. But when I say that, like, it's so interesting to watch, you know, Troy do comedy in that way because you like impropt a little. And later I was told not to improvise. They didn't have time. It depends on you. Matt is such a great improviser, such a great comedic actor, and like when I tell you that, Troy like leveled

up with the comedy in that moment. And what I think, and I've never told you this, but Judy Greer shot two days after literally Judy grew the kind of she flew in when like everyone was like COVID, COVID was like as the world was collapsing. We shot her out the last two days Thursday Friday, her first day there. We were like, I'll never forget. We were all sitting in that fucking mini mart and we were like Tom Hanks has come when we like, not Tom, you know

what I mean? And it was it was whatever, but duty of course improv of the ship out of that scene, and Troy was prepared for that because I think of your little moment with him, and it's such a great scene and maybe we'll put it on YouTube as a deleted scene. But Matthew was excellent. It was fun and obviously I wanted to come visit you anyway, And actually was Valentine's Day it was, which leads me to I won't say who it was, but we shared you you were sharing who it was, but a huge star was

it was in the state. Was it like a duplex, So you were in one half of the duplex and this gigantic star was in the other half of the duke plex. Suffice it to say, we heard this celebrity, unnamed celebrity getting railed so hard one night it was insane. Do you remember can you can you emulate the sound? Do your park sound? It was like it was. It was. It was like a porg from Star Wars. It's most perturbed, it was. And we were like, let's be louder, and

we were like, we can't do that. The last thing I'll say, the only hands I'll give is it was no she was, she was, but she was getting absolutely railed. And while I was there, I spoke to this person on the phone because uh, I know I told you this in edible arrangement that your mom sent us was accidentally picked up by this individual, and so she called because the phone was there, and I spoke with her on the phone and she was it was her, and she was like I literally was like, oh, I'll come

out and meet you. I'll come out and take it from you. She goes, oh no, no, no no, I left it on the on the doorstop, no worries, and I was like, oh, well, thank you so much. She was like, all right, well enjoy it. It It looks so good. And then I brought it and we did not get to talk to this huge celebrity because people be shooting in Atlanta. Of course. Um, I want to bring up one thing that I loved and then another thing that I think

is curious that I think will open up another discussion. Okay, So the first thing is talk about because I brought this up to you last night, and talk about this love scene between between Troy and Vivek or between Caleb and Esta. I am obsessed with this love scene where they finally decide to be intimate together despite like you know, them sort of having this pending you know, situation happened, and the way it was shot, the way it was just like choreographed and composed, I was like, I don't

think I've seen this. I don't think i've seen this in film like an adolescent queer sexual experience. Felt that felt real and so and yet so delicate and like careful and interest even more soul into my second thing, which is what was the choice behind making Caleb Hay Taylor swept Okay, Okay, so, I mean it's so nice to hear you say that that was the scene I worked the hardest on. Um. We like it was painstaking.

I mean truly, just with my producers in the trailer, even like minutes before being like, okay, we have to sort of READO the shot list because it needs to be more honest, it needs to be more awkward, and needs to be more comedic. But for me, it was just sort of like, as a queer man, like, I feel like we have interesting ideas about what sex needs to be. It's so like God, I mean, I porn is not like ruined anything for me for something some

people say that. I think it's just curate a very specific image in my head for sure, And and this is maybe what you're talking about. Yeah, I just feel like sex is, like you know, there's this notion of like penetrative counts. If it's not penetrative, it doesn't count. But I think sex is how you define it, And for me, it was just trying to create like intimacy between these two people who are going through the set

of experiences who want to share each other physically. Um, and you know, I wanted to make sure again tone tone, tone, every scene. It was like, we have to stay on tone. And you know, there was a version of the scene that was like hot and sexy and whatever, but that didn't feel authentic. And there was a scene where it was like like welcome to the clown car, first day in my body, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And you know

that sometimes, I mean, especially when you're nineteen. Yeah. And so I just wanted to create something that felt sweet and intimate that was also funny and real. But the popcorn element of it was actually something I did with my college boyfriend, who is obsessed with both of you, and he thought I was so cool when I started dating Matt because he listens to this podcast Hi Andy. Um, and uh yeah, it was like just something we did

with like popcorn. We were like obsessed with popcorn in my junior year or whatever, and like we just did it and I was like, what a And it just became a metaphor, like popcorn means more than in just that scene. It's like a running um symbol through the film for STA. But um, it was just it was it was funny and hot and all these different things and I'm really excited for people to see it. Troy also like loves that scene. He was like, I look good in that scene, and I was like, good all

the time. Sucking Venus as a boy. I mean, he's like a savage fenty mob Like it's crazy, like he really has such a striking, like like god given like movie star look. And the thing too, is what I thought was so funny was this when they were shooting the Minimore stuff, like they're just scene where they get stoned into Anymore and um, Troy and Brianne, who I don't want to lose saying, is so good. She is incredible comedy for sure. I mean and Troy player of

each other. So funny. She's a movie very very like thick stardom vibe. But anyway, um, there's a scene where they get stoned and started to dance around them anymore And I remember you texted me and being like, yeah, we actually had to tell Troy to be less of like a magnetic pop star because it's like to explain it, well, there's just like, first of all, we like that was like such running gun because that was the last thing we shot during the day before we had a shut

down for seven months. So it was like I told Channon, and who's my DP, who is number one obsessed with Matt thought he was the most gorgeous person she'd ever seen. Um, And I was like, you're wrong, just kidding um and uh. We were like light the whole fucking store. And Bruce her her husband, who was also our b cam operator, just like fucking followed them around as the world was truly falling on our heads. It was like such a weird mix of emotions because it's such a joyful experience.

And then on the other hand, I was like, God, I hope this virus doesn't kill my family. Like that's where we were at that moment. It was like the house Yeah, yeah, uncertainty, the house down, boot um with gloves and a mask and yeah, and try was just like being Troy. He was like having fun in the moment. And then I was like, oh my god, he's so magnetic, but he's literally and and he's coming off as an international pop superstar and like not this little fucker from

from Florida. So we had to cut around a lot of it too. And I remember when we first he first saw the first cut of the movie because usually I don't show actors working cut. We should not be honestly, it's none of your business. But actually right, But the more the longer I work in this business, the more I hear about, oh, you know that person, that actor, she needs to see playback is different. Well, playback. I

think it's annoying. I think actors should not be It's such a disrespective it's it's it depends on who it is. But just they have no business seeing cuts because you don't want actors to get in their heads and it's still a working cut, and you're not coming in with an objective perspective. And when you show someone a working cut, the objective is how do I make the movie better? Right, and like the movie, not a particular performance necessarily, but the movie as a whole. So you want people who

are objective. But anyway, Troy had to see it because he was writing music for it. He was writing songs and one of his only notes for the many more sequences like um, I look like a pop star here, and I was like, you do, and so we had to continue to sort of cut around it. He's here, in touch with his presence and like I mean, I still think about him in the My My video and

he's not even doing that much. He's kind of just like, I mean, you know, kind of standing still in in a in a storm, but like the in the bridge, there's a shot of him upside down in red light and then I got my name on this church, on this church, and like he just has It's so crazy,

is shocking. So we just cut a music video that will come out today for Wait, which is the second and we should say the two songs that he did for the film, which are Trouble and we are like both absolutely honestly, Like, I know it's coming out earlier in the year if if There's justice at the end

of the year. Wait is in the Oscar conversation because it is so beautiful things and like, I just want to put that out there in the world, because you know, he's got very close to a nomination for his song from Boy or Race, which is also beautiful, but this is such a beautiful encapsulation of the song on the experience,

So it's just amazing. It's amazing. Basically, like when we were thinking about music for the film and what he would write, and he was going through his head because he he wrote the songs from Caleb's perspective, which like as the biggest choice of aon fan, like I was at his first show at the Roxy and like Mads, like I was like, unfortunately a gross stand um and

now he's my sister, which is such a gift. But basically I was like, I want you to write a song about waiting because that's the experience of the film. That's the universal element that people will tap into. And he did. And in this music video that we cut, there's so many scenes and sequences um from the film that didn't make it. And there's this one really cool up all night montage where he can't sleep and it's all the stuff Caleb does in his room until the sunrise. Wow,

I would have loved to see that. And it's in time laps. Channon on and I shot it in time laps, so like it felt. Music video was honestly a departure structurally from the rest of the film, so it almost didn't even fit in from a structural structural place. But I mean this this movie is like Montage City. I'm obsessed with montages. It's also a movie about times. So

I'm gonna says it works, it lends itself thematically. But I'm so excited we got to use it and we turned it into a short film and we just showed Troy the cut this morning and he lost his mind. He's so happy. It's I'm so excited for people to see it. But yeah, he I hate this phrase because I think it's so obnoxious. But he holds the frame like he carries. He doesn't have to do ship. It's crazy. Some people do and some people don't. He's got it. We said the same thing about Jole He I mean,

hottest person in America jk Um. The theme of waiting is so perfectly I don't know, like encapsulated, and I just think that's a really hard thing to pull off in a movie waiting. How do how do you be compelling? But there's something in the sort of uh timeline of waiting for uh like an HIV diagnosis to come back that also just like I think you treated very very very well. Thank you. Well, you know, it's really interesting. I'm like not an actor, like even being here talking

on this podcast, I'm like truly sweating. I'm so nervous. But um, something I learned the most about writing in an acting class I was forced to take in college, which is basically like it's objective based, right, Like you have to give someone an objective, and for me, it's impossible for me to write characters that are not active. And so something that's funny that happened is I sort of overdid it because it is a movie about waiting. And then during the pandemic, when all I was doing

was no now something we're so familiar with. Yeah, well, all I was doing was sort of smoking weed and getting high with Matthew and eating donuts that his mom, Katrina would send, and we gained a lot of Basically we were like just binging Survivor and eating doughnuts and smoking weed. And I was like, there's not a moment

in this movie where Caleb goes through that. And so I wrote this entire thread in the middle of the pandemic and we already shot half of it where he's I was like, he needs to binge something, but we have no money. What can we get for free? And I was like, oh my god, the real world. And then he and I was like, it's such an important thing for me for this film to honor the queer generations that came before us. It's so paramount plus and um and uh. Pedro was the first openly paused person

ever on television. It was the first same sex commitment ceremony ever televised. And the the ability and the honor of putting that in the movie is something I'm like, very very grateful for. And um yeah, just we're all waiting right now, So I hope it resonates with people absolutely. And I think that opening I remember even reading when you sent me the screenplay, I like read it, um, and I just that that first that opening image just

stuck with me. It's so indelible where it's like it's him waiting at and this is not a spoiler the first thing you see in the movie, but it's Caleb on a tandem bicycle by himself, waiting for this gate to open up, basically like a bridge or strawbridge. Strawbridge. Yeah sorry, And God just likes just so perfect for me. I like this is I love movies. It's like with novels, where the first sentence of a novel tells you everything

you need to know about about the novel. I love movies where the first shot tells you everything you need to know, and he's on a tandem bike alone waiting for this bridge to come down and get to the other side. And that's just what the movie. And then not to spoil I mean, I feel like the best films sort of a very aware of the first in the last image of the main character, in the last image of of Caleb is just really really perfect, perfectly said against the first you know, as a Tracy flick.

I'm a symmetry girl. So like the beginning of the movie mirrors the end of the movie with one very work difference. Yes, I won't give it away, but but I never I never go, oh, it's too on the nose for the symmetry to be that apparent. I think, No, that is like satisfying. It's so satisfying, and you have to it's sort of necessary if you want the character are to be something that the audience can walk away from,

which is that's the most important exactly. So I just want to go back to one thing that I was told I was not allowed to make my culture because you guys talk about it too much on the podcast already, but it taor it was Taylor talk. First of all, I didn't tell him that he couldn't do anything, Okay, I said, he was deciding between two things. We can talk about Taylor absolutely, what are you doing? Are you? First of all, I'm not doing anything. Are you transitioning

out of this topic to go to culture? But that was our culture was for me. I just want to talk about Taylor really quickly and that we can transition to whatever that was. That was my second I want to say before we before we get into this. I did not tell him anything. He said, I have two ideas for culture. You are muscle. I don't micro manage Jared. You are a musseler. He gave me two ideas for culture,

and one of them was Taylor. And I said, if you're deciding between the two, we talk about Taylor a lot, but Jared is the biggest swifty in the room, and I feel like a lot of our listeners are swift. Okay, So say what you want to say, mama. Okay. So I was asking about the decision to make Caleb and Taylor.

So the first thing that I'll say is, when I was writing this, it was a very emotional experience because it's a very honest screenplay, and I felt too close to Caleb and it was fucking me the funk up. And I was like, how do I make this kid someone who is definitively not me? And I was like, oh my god, he doesn't like Taylor Swift because I am so deeply and grossly obsessed with her. Anyone you meet, it's like, my personality is Taylor Swift. One percent is

being a Jewish person with a weak stomach. That's truly all there is to me. A very simple math, and this is did the movie takes place. It was very easy to rag on where it was, Please don't be in love with someone else. Please don't have somebody waiting on you. I mean when I went in twelve, I placed top five out of ten thousand contestants in the Taylor Swift Biggest Fan Contest because I wrote a fifteen page essay and I met her at the basement of

the Staples Center and she is absolutely perfect. And my favorite joke from that essay is at what when I was talking about why Taylor and I were the same because Red, which was the album is of the color that's also in my name j R. E. D. You're welcome but and I was like, oh my god, the window. But feeling when you got a color in the name honey just me and friend? No no, no no. Um. So I basically went up to Taylor Swift and it was like, um, I was like, thank you for writing

twenty two because I'm also twenty two. And she was like, oh my god, you're so funny. And I was like, I'm not everyone, but in my essay, I was like, at one point we both love the Jonas brothers. At another point we both got over that, and I was like, oh my god, that person, but um no, it's bad, but I'm obsessed with her and and so you made that and so that was that was a character sort of texture on Kayla. And because friends with Taylor, it's

like it's it's a funny wing. Well. He also like randles the lines by her to be like did he really yeah, because I was because you were talking about maybe the fact that she would see it, or like that he was going to maybe show it to her or something, and I was like, well, the character doesn't like her, Well what the line is? Fuck you for making me like Taylor sweat end up like her once

like they fall in love. The catalyst for their me cute is because they like the connection is Taylor because he says a line that is the truest thing about me, which is sometimes I feel like she steals my journal and writes about my life, which is why I love Taylor. I think everyone feels like that, which is why she's such a great right. I mean for me, And I know you guys talk about this on the podcast all

the time, but as like a closeted gay kid. When I first fell in love with her when I was sixteen, when our song came out and Tim McGraw came out, I was like, Oh, the only emotion that resonates with me is pining, because I'm someone who has unrequited love, and it's you know, I'm closet else anyone else, shining, yearning, wanting,

um and um. She's able to synthesize that with a lyric and a sound sonically that just is such an incredible marriage that is so specific and so detail oriented but also universal and just stays with you for fucking ever. And I've seen her fifteen times and I'm so nervous for her to see this film. I hope she likes it. And um, she's my entire life, but she's not my culture. And you know what, accurately, she's not my culture. Jared Freeder, what is the culture that made you say cultures? For me?

What a moment. Imagine you're a dea, you pranced in along, you spot a brook, you put your lips to the clistically of water, and bay, I'm a fucking bullet goes through your brain. It's this really he does every line famous Filia Mud has a Chinese food. Literally my favorite movie. It was something that like I I bonded with my family, Like my family were from Florida. I'm from Miami, but

we're Brooklyn Jews who basically they snowbirded with. My grandparents never left because there was a beach and it was warm. So my my parents are you know, Vinny and Mona, Lisa Vito and what a good name cousins, brothers, uncles. First of all, my family is on the car business like my like that she says in the movie. My father is in the cab of business, my brother, my uncle on my father's side, like I'm the only one who's not in the car business, and we can quote it.

It made us feel alive and like family. And it was also like the first movie I stand where it had life or death stakes, but it was funny. And the thing that made the protagonist and outsider is also the thing that saves the day in the end, which in my opinion is very queer. That which makes you

different is actually your superpower. It is interesting, you've never seen wow, and this is this is actually a huge moment because my cousin Vinnie is really good and talk about talk about a great script like it's so it's just it's really good. And and Joe past she is incredible. But the story of it is Marissa Toma, I mean Marissa Tomay as Mona Lisa Vito. She won the Oscar. People don't think there are still people out there who don't think it's true that she won, right That is

like Mandela fact new Mandela effect is dropped. People really don't think that you want people really don't think she won because they're convinced that up against her competition, which was like all older British dramatic actresses that year, it was like it was like Lynn Redgraves, like a year. Although it's a big part. So it's like, I mean,

she's number two on the call. She clear like, but she's like the female lead, but she is so fucking funny and it and she absolutely crushes like six comedic set pieces and she is the climax of oh my God, and it's just like you gotta see this. She was the first drag queen I ever saw. That's how I feel about that performance. I was like, she's fabulous, she's smart, I want to be hurt. She's sexy, heightened version of

femininity that you haven't seen. It was unbelievable, and to this day it also like makes all these lists of movies that get um law like accurately. That's true. Yea, It's like it's like accurate in terms of like how a court case like that would play out, like it sort of predates, like I guess legally blonde in that way, Like wasn't that accurate. It wasn't shade, but Vinnie is Blonde made it seem like made law seem like a mystery. Yeah.

Although the thing of the thing too about my cousin Vinnie is like it's just in terms of chemistry, like Joe Pesci and Marissa told me they're amazing. Joe doesn't get the credit from the queers. He doesn't Joe Never Misses, Never Home Alone, stand Um, good Fellas, I'm like, that is a genius or a madman. I've never his performance and good Fellas, it's like, you know, it's a movie,

so these people aren't real. But like I like whenever I'm terrified him and that first and that first thing when they're at that restaurant, I was just like, God, this is crazy. It's it's it's real. It's very accurate to what happens when someone like loses their mole, like

because yes, it's anger. It's it's anger portrayed so bracing, lee and scarily, and it's that kind of thing like I think we all know people who it starts like you think they're kidding, and then it goes into this place and especially to track that like as a filmmaker, like Martin scor says, he's incredible because like as a performance, as like a same it really works because it catches you by surprise where it goes and like it's because

it's measured and I would say, obviously that's a dramatic performance. But as a comedic actor, he's insane. Of course he is. He's like he's like an unsung like comedic like and you mentioned home alone, and I think people don't even like you mentioned home alone. It's like you you don't even take into account how difficult it is to give

that good of a comedic performances. He needs to be the cop in the beginning and then he needs to come back, and like you need to like be able to root for mccaulley, but also like you need to you need you're not going to care about what happens to these two two guys if like they're not flushed out in somewhere right also to do a performance that's funny, that's funny where he's like constantly in pain, not easy at all, buckets of paint to the face, really slipping

on ice like nail gun and his go Now it's truly, I mean gets electrified, hiss, haircatched on fire, has to go into toilet like it's it's it's a clown Carl

clown college. It's code. But basically also to the thing about my cousin Vinnie is it's totally it is such a fine line because it's fish out of water, Like there are these like Brooklyn people like down in the South, like dealing with this and she feels she's big because she's Mona Lisa Vito, and like she's got these crazy monologues and it's like it's truly like it's like it's almost a play a lot of it so much, like the scenes are long, and she's got these crazy monologues,

but she still feels grounded and like a real person. And I remember after she won the Oscar, it almost like was like because people were so surprised, it was like, well, who even is this person? And she had to prove it so many times again and again and again and again. And she's got I think two nominations since then, which is the Wrestler and in the Bedroom in the Bedroom, which are two completely different performances from each other and

from her original win. And this is why I'm always like, we need to be giving more attention to the comedic performances, and if that can win, there's no reason why Rachel McAdams shouldn't win in Mean Girls, like it's just and so whenever these big comedic performances come along, like I do, I am one of those people who was like, if Tiffany Hattrich had gotten it for a Girl's Trip, I

would not have been mad at all. I feel like she was vindicated with the La La Land Moonlight thing because we all learned that, like if they ever announced the wrong name, like they'll come out and they say like people were like, oh, the presenter just announced her name, but it wasn't her, but now we know that. Like, but the oscars themselves came out and were like, she did get the most votes. Period. It's such a good

for the nons, for the win, for the win. When she won, people were like you, I think we're talking about Tiffany for a second, no, no, no, Marissa wins. And then it was like yes, oh yes, and everyone's like Jack Palace is old and he read he read the thing off right, do it right? And they were like, no, she won, period. Yeah. I mean it's I mean like the dialogue is indelible even for someone who hasn't seen it. I mean like, I mean, I I don't want to

reference anything spoiler that we can't spoil. But but no, no, no no, I'm just gonna say like the fact that I I know, like the defense is wrong and my biological is taking like this like that like those are like films phrases. Let's just say that the iconography of her performance will appear in a movie that's coming out. Yes, yes, yes, Mrs Viat. Though please answer the question does the defendant's case hold wood the best? No, the defense is wrong.

I always think matt would do an amazing Marissa Tomay impression. If you're that's your satch. Yeah, it's mona, but what a good culture And also, bowen, you will enjoy the movie. You really like. It's one of those movies that I'm like, why haven't I all these famous other people don't tell me it's what? Something with that I think? I think holds the hell of course, of course, of course you know what's interesting though and not so like, and I

do want your thoughts on this. But it's interesting that someone in the unif our Lord two you says the first scene of the movie should say everything about the movie. And you are not a power of the dog spam. Wow to call me out like that so publicly here to listen, you stepped into the arena. Here's what I'll say. I would love to see the film again. I need to see it because I'm wrong constantly. Um wow, that's huge, Okay, um Matthew, But um, here's what I'll say, he thinks

he got COVID in Disney World. He do you remember when we went to Matt made me get No, I didn't, So he's so confused. When we went to Port of Villarta for New Year's a couple of years, that's right, and then pre COVID everyone we were not gay over it was New Year's. It was New Year's twenty as in January. And then you guys went to Orlando right afterwards, and you guys both got very sick. No we did, We did not both, Jared. This is what I'll say, And that's one of Jared's famous lines. So we left

Port of Yarda to go to Orlando, Florida. Flight was the only flight I could get us to make sure that we would get like three full days. Was like five in the morning, so we had partied all night. How to leave at the ask crack of john for the airport, and I said, Matt, Matt, I don't have a great institution. He doesn't have. If someone's sneezes in Iowa and I'm in l A, I will get sick. So we get in the plane. I think everything's fine. He's sleeping on the plane. It's fine, I'm I'm there,

I see him, I'm taking care of him. And then we get there. That's strong, and I swear to God, if we woke up, he had a fever. He's covered in sweat. He's like, I can't I can't move. So I had to do like a full day destity by myself because he his body broke. Yeah, my body, my body shuts down. Listen, I get it. But you don't have COVID for four hours and then not. They don't have zero in January. It was right before I left to shoot the film, and um, I just finally went

on Rise of the Resistance two weeks. Can we talk about it? Jared loves you have you have not been on it, but it sucks that you were here for so long and we've never went. I have not been to a park in what feels like maybe maybe we should go soon. Maybe maybe you keep threatening me and being like we'll go to Orlando. You threatened me? What do you mean? I threatened you? I always say what you should go and then you're like I can I'm working and I'm like, bitch, what do you think I'm doing? Okay,

same thing with Matt. Don't call you are a bit that hurts me and it's very cruel to say a bit. Jared came in and we're all sniping at each other and we're not sniping it. Matt. He's been sort of he's been sort of like threatening me with the dragging, like I'm going to get into it, like what what I'm lovely? Well, let's just really quickly pivot. I think I mention it all. No no, no, no, no, no no no, we're not doing that. Yeah, I want to do this.

I want to bring the conversation anything else we want to say about my cousin. No, no, no, no, I've said it all the culture somehow this came up last nights but where each of us had to name our top ten and I got through too, and then we were are Uber came you have to You got to three and they were all from one album you said, you said style, blank, space and things. I got through four because then I I would like I would like to edit mine. But okay, you want to finish up

your list. I want you guys to go first. Say your say, I'll go first. Okay. I will maintain that her most underrated song is, in my opinion, her best. I wish you would. This is like a crazy opinion. Everybody go back and listen to it. It is the most It is the one song on that whole album that fil filth besides Out of the Woods, which is like any lennox um I wish you would have, like full on arena rock. It's full on like stadium rock eighties Like. I don't disagree with you that it's great.

I just think that all you have to do is stay is stronger. Oh my god, No, you're you're dead wrong, You're a bit, You're a bitch. I wish moment. I wish you would. I wish you would. I wish you would, I wish you would. Treacherous amount something are we going? The thing that I love about is Taylor Swift takes the style of other artists who we stand and creates

her own version of this. No one needs to convince that that you know who did that Gaga on the Fame Monster absolutely absolutely with Taylor with blank space, Tell me that's not a Lord's song. Tell me that's not it's the Lord's song with like a Drake beat with like a hip hop of that time, which with the Taylor lyric wildest dreams. Tell me that's not influenced by I hate that and I wish you would. It's it's

time never hang on the phone again. That's Danielle, girl, that's Danielle, but she marries it with like it's original. It's subversive. I'm not saying she's stealing. I think the best art is when you borrow from people that you love and you make it your own, which is what she did on that album, and it's why she's such

a gifted artist. But I fucking love I wish you was. Yes, I love Okay, I just think, I just, I just I will always go to that song when I'm I'm not in the movie for all kinds of Taylor all the time, I'm always in the mood for I wish you would. Yeah, okay, And if any reader publicist out there relates, please hit me up. I would love to have this conversation. I just don't understand them. I think

they should be I wish you would treacherous. While the streams, thank you for saying blank space, August, you did not say style last night. I did not say style last night, And thank you for for for pushing you. No, I'm not No, I'm not, You're a bit, You're sparks Fly. The way is like a full odd rain storm. I'm a house of cars. Oh my god. So did you have you heard the original sparks Fly where she had to change the lyrics in the second verse? What were

they doing? The YouTube? YouTube? That's how please kill me now, YouTube the YouTube and go to the YouTube and and YouTube the original sparks Um. I feel like I'm now talking like Thomas who I stand um? And it's like, uh, it's it's she changed the lyrics because she got older and it wasn't appropriate. But sparks Fly was a song she wrote for her first album, did not go on the first album, fell back in love with it and she put it on Speak Now. She wrote that song,

and that is that's how you know. It is the quintessence of Taylor. Absolutely absolutely, Okay, I've got two more. This is the best. Don't sunk up it, don't suck up. There's when you said last night from Evermore, Oh Ivy, And I'm gonna say my last one cool Summer see the Dream in the Crime of the Night that justice for Olivia Rodrigo. Do you know have you guys discussed on the pot about what happened with their friendship because of that song, not because of New Year's Day, because

she sampled that was she asked to do that. Am I going to get canceled for this? But um, the tea is Olivia borrowed. That's the word I'll use. Others will say, so I'm gonna say borrowed the bridge of Cruel Summer for the bridge of deja vu and retroactively no no no, no no no no no no no no no, you get deja vu? Oh no, the job very ice cream in Malibu. I'm toned off, so I won't know, and I know you get. I don't want to keep to keep you interest. So she had to

give retroactive credit songwriting credit. She did a lot of that on that album, and a lot of it is like, Okay, I guess she's like doing her She's she's doing what she should be doing. She's amazing all music. But you can't just a melody lion that that album is not as strong as people think. Yeah, all right, you said it, not me, but anyway, Yeah, I love Curl Summerly, not like people are acting like it's like jagged little Bill,

it's fucking not. But notice it's a solid debut from a talented girl we listen to so we don't really know who she is. It's mostly about a boy, and it's like, here's what I'll say, not it's not a debut. She used to say in interviews all the time when people would ask her what artists do you emulate? Who do you love? She would be like Taylor Taylor, Taylor Taylor. And since that happened, she has stopped saying that, and she says like Gog's the greatest performer. I will say

we cut this out. When I interviewed her for v MA magazine, I brought up like like they had in her the list of questions, like talked her about Taylor. I was like okay, and I was like, what was it like meeting Taylor the brit Awards? And she's like really kind of like She's like that's bad. It was nice, And I was like, oh, something something happened. I didn't I realized it was about Yeah, but my ten songs, Okay, Okay, here's Jared's ten, Here's my ten. Number one, Delicate, the

greatest pop song that's ever been written. I don't I'm sorry, I'm not on the Delicate. The first time I heard Delicate, I listened. I stopped listening to reputation. Wait, oh my, i't have no reputation. Representation want mentions from rep from rep Okay, dress and fucking dress? Fucking Are you guys ready for this? Not ready for it? But endgame gets so much. One of my favorite Taylor Stuft videos like like I Bury hatch gag anyway, Okay, you go Delicate.

Delicate is my number one for me again talking about the synthesizing of a lyric and an emotion and a sound together. It's like that song feels and like the spaces when she's singing the chorus is a cool that I said, all that is a chill that you're in my head the way she's saying it without the music, like it actually is delicate and you like feel its

internal and it's it's so such an incredible song. Um, I'm obsessed all too well, which is like a boring choice, but it is just maybe the greatest song that's ever been written by any human And all the time, You're welcome. Um. I will say Ivy my favorite song off of Evermore, the only song on Evermore she wrote with both Jack and the guy from the National, which is gag treacherous again, talk about pining, talking about it was sounding falling in love. I told her that to her face. I saw that

clip and I literally screamed out loud. It was that promo. It was and they didn't use that, but like it was online, it was online. This is I'm high way too much. I don't know what Matt texted me and what I foind on the internet, but um, oh my god, uh to headlight shine on the sleepless night and I will get you, get you alone. Nothing safe is worth the drive. And that's my favorite Teller stuff lyric of all time. US and then I would do I would

do I have to go in like album order. I would do our song which made me fall in love with her, to write that song by yourself at fifteen, with those specifics, get out of here. God, if he could play it again again, Um, I would say you belong with me, just for nostalgia's sake. I would say that is a queer song, that is you pinted for

your unattainable emotional unavailable were queer queer object um. And then I would go Holy Ground Ound August and the one Wow, the one in her top ten of all her catalot love, the one, the one we remember when Folklore first came out and you and I, Matt and I both went, we're choice for an opener, but I love here's the thing. I don't dislike the one at all.

In fact, I just but well, first of all, we should say that Bone and I were trying to listen to the album and we were in gratititled Home, and she and Study were talking and it was disrespectful and they should have shut up. They were putting out, they were trying on clothes and going where they were. They were sort of trying on clothes and being like, do you think this shirt looks good on me? Etcetera. And we're like, we're listening to Taylor that you need this.

When Folklore first came out, literally midnight, midnight, where was nine, Oh you know what, I was walking around my neighborhood alone in the dark, literally listening to it unrepeated. That's how I did reputation. Like I remember, Reputation came out when I was on a story Pirates tour and out to the Giraffe that didn't know my most played song on Spotify every year. You guys have to check it out.

It's Matt original from Story Pirates where he gives a Kelly Clarkson bridge like you've never heard it, sorry, Kelly brand Bridge. He really he really listens to the Giraffe almost every day in the it's my it's my track on Spotify. You guys, yeah, you gotta check it out. Um but anyway, uh was a sing oh reputation. I walked around and like like soaked it up and it

was so amazing. Are you ready for my tent? I guess I'm just gonna knock this out In one from there are three of my favorite Taylor Swift songs of all time, and I do think that that they should be on any Taylor Swift fans list, and that is

blank Space and Style. And then I would say Wildest Dreams is one of my favorite songs of all time because it's actually my favorite type of song, which is that sort of like romantic wind swept like ballad but with activation like and I mean like, I just absolutely love it Wildest Dreams. I could listen to it set to a heartbeat, by the way, which is why we love Taylor. It's always those details that make the song right.

I would like to stop here and say that an honorable mention for me, which will appear on no one else's list, but I don't want to leave the album without saying it is no Welcome to New York. I think is such a goofy song. And I think that so much of Taylor is hip hip pop pop pop walk walk, Walk, white girl stomp, and that is Welcome to New York. And the fact that she opened her best album with a song that people don't like that it was, and that it was it's not it's her,

it's her thriller, it's her best album anyway. This is literally my time time um, and so that's my honorable mention. I just want to throw it out there doing forward.

Hold on, Can I just say, just like for I think, what's what it is informing your effects, in your emotional connection that this song is When you and I saw her live ninety Name World tour and one of the best nights in my little plastered and she opens with with Welcome to New York, and that was the moment where we we all like you and I keyed into her like turning around it it was like, oh my god,

the nine world for a girl three times. Okay. When they gave us those bracelets and we were taking those like three foot tall Margarita's, I was living my bud lights. I was absolutely Remember we were so mad Bowen Bowen. Was it catatonic because he paid a hundred eighty dollars for an uber? Oh yeah, it was so we were We didn't stop thinking about it all night. New York.

It was not life New Jersey. So so her blank space when you know, when she said the city name, she would go like noon and then she'd go during the bridge, Um Jersey. Yeah, she Jersey, And I was kind of you she wishes she could say New York. No. But okay, so those three, Oh my god, did you see Teresa there? Did you see Melissa there? Did you see any of the girls there. I don't think they like Taylor Swift, That's not true. I think they love

like bon Jovi. Okay whatever. Anyway, um so those three moving forward, I would say you have to give it up to love story story because we were both young whenever, so you like, that's like I conic. So I would say those are four and then honestly, moving forward through time, on Reputation, I do have to give it up to Delicate,

like Delicate has to be. We're going to convert their number. Six, I would say, and this is no particular order, but Dear John, Dear John, Dear John, I absolutely love and I'm obsessed with the fact that she wrote a John Mayer song, John. I love that guitar riff. And I said, if All Too Well is a twelve minute music video, we need to be looking out for a feature film of Dear written and directed by Taylor Swift. So those are six, then I would say, and Reputation is I

think my favorite album. But I'm gonna give only Delicate on on the list, Treacherous and All Too Well. That's seven and eight and that's going to be read for me from folklore. And it's not to say that I dislike Lover, because I actually would give another honorable mention to the song Lover, which I think is incredible. It's just not in the top ten from folklore. I'm gonna say August and from evermore this is gonna be my

wild card choice. Happiness. I love Happiness. It's some of the best read writing she's ever Absolutely, of course I agree. I agree. I am will for whatever reason, never with the instinct that I should put on Evermore, like do it to a full play through. You know what I did. I put it in your New York so you don't have this, but I bought the CD and I put it in my car. Solic comes on and then you have to forced to listen to it, and I have to say, it's one of my favorite albums now Evermore.

Evermore is going to be controversial. I think Everymore is stronger than No No, and a lot of people share, a lot of people should I think a lot of people think that I there's something about Folklore where it it's sort of like the perfect cosmic album at the right time for me and I think for everybody. Listened to that album in my kitchen and it was and it was like, you know, Patty Lapone was driving around to it and being like, she's like our best song. Right.

When Patty Lapone tweeted that she was literally obsessed with Folklore, I was like, never did I think I would see the day that Ever I get because tell herself such an amazing story, Telle, Right, that's what's important. To Patty and actress. Half of My Quarantine was Matt just like screaming August and his kids Jen mad Yeah, and then

that is that's the part you my honorable mention. The thing that is just neck and neck with August in my listing is mirrorable because it's the only song on the album where she's kind of acknowledging the present circumstances of COVID where it's like um when with the rodeo clowns like go home, like like when like when there's nothing like who what is her worth? When there's no one around, you know, like she's a disc, she's a mirrorbale, she's a disco ball. She's reflecting everybody off of her.

But when no one's around, like who is she? I have to amend my list and remove the one as an honorable mention and yourribal. She's so good at shoe gaze. It's a sound that her lyrical style and her vocal qualities so well. When shoe gas was dead, like when that genre of like and I don't know, like there weren't that many people holding it on the floor, and then she comes back in and I think they're honestly has been the shift back to like I'm listening to this,

to the genre much more. Now do you guys have to listen walks the How do you have to listen to to snail Mail? You guys have to listen to the girls snail Mail is my life, Oh my god, Valentine and me. Did you hear the demo? So she has a demo and it's called funk I forgot. It's a lyric from it was before she called it Valentine or and it's just like she's such a genius and before the soundtrack of three months before it's all it's mostly queer, and but before we decided to make it

two thousand eleven, or before to keep it period. One notable exception, snail Mail was in there for Jason was in their snail Mail is like I mean that album, I've been wearing it the funk So you gotta listen to It's called Valentine Love and you were like, um fucking I just gotta say I love the acoustic version of Trouble in the movie. It's thank It's so beautiful.

Thank you. Yes, it's weird because, like Troy, I wanted people to be invested in him as Caleb, and I felt like you didn't want to distract with him singing the song. So I was like, let's find some we didn't know. He said his version of the songs are

at the end credits. But I was like, let's find some really cool queer artists for you to write these songs with and duet with so that they can sing it over picture and Jays gave like the most beautiful acoustic, intimate version of Trouble for that um Fourth of July beach montage, and Gordy does wait at the end, which makes Matt cry. It's Matt's favorite part of the fucking

overhead beach shots. How did you do that? Okay, so the gag is it was supposed to be filmed on our last day in Florida, and as you know, so you did shoot in Florida for something we did, So we did so all of our exteriors mostly or Miami, and then our interiors were Atlanta for the tax break money honey, because that's kind of how we did. Because I was because I was looking at I was like, oh, I knew that they shot this in Atlanta, and I was going, well, the exteriors are giving me and it

was Miami. We we really and even in the interiors, I worked with my production designer, Catherine Eater, who's a genius to really bring the feeling of Florida inside, you know, Art Deco, Pastel's um green, you know, plants and just that that sort of vibe. But um, yeah, it was like I didn't want I didn't want people to be taken out because it was because it was Troy, right, No, I totally I got that immediately. It was like, oh, yeah, this would be a completely different evocation if it was

Troy singing over Troy, you know, walking around. But um, God, like I I specifically love you, like giving us Miami overcast? Oh honey, well, oh sorry. The beach shot it was too windy. We couldn't we couldn't shoot it there. So we filmed the shot. We do a plate which is basically where like you put Troy on a green screen floor and we shoot a plate of his face, shoot a plate of his face, and then we farmed it

out to the South Africa unit. We found this great production company in South Africa and they filmed that shot on Africa like directly and doing it like over zoom and through emails to figure it out and then we superimposed in post and it's sort of like a visual effect. But for me, that was something Channon in our DP, who's like brilliant. She um what else has she done? She's done a movie called The Third Wife, which she

was nominated for an Indie Spirit Award for. She's a tie cinematographer who is just like just queer and just like incredible. And I feel like Caleb and Dar's relationship in a weird way was mirrored by like relationship. But um uh, she's just so beautiful. And that was in her look book when she like interviewed job that the concept of that shot, and I was like, oh my god,

we're gonna steal that. We're gonna put it in one of my favorite against both times twice twice time I was like yeah again, sort of like in a movie about time, those shots were used to sort of like it's like my in a to the Lighthouse with Virginia Woolf for like time passes and brackets and it's like a way to jump, like those are my brackets. That's my way to like pause one era of the film and John and Um, yeah, god, I just love it. I mean everyone please get please see it right now,

and it's out today. And basically what you do is you you download Paramount Plus and so it should show up as an icon on your TV and then you click it. And really, if you have drag Race, if if you like to watch Drag Race All Stars, you might already have the Paramount Plus app. You go on there, you're gonna be able to watch three months written and directed by Jared Freeder and starring choice van Ellen Burston, Louis Gossip Jr. I mean, Judy Greer, Ammy Landecker, who's

also fantastic. We haven't spent the time, but so great Brianne Chew and Vet Colorado. What an amazing opportunity for you to watch a great film out there, all the readers, It is time to move on to I Don't Think so, honey, which is our one minute segment where we how do you say, take sixty seconds to rant against something in culture that really deserves to be dragged the hell through the mud, And um, I have something. Okay, this is amazing,

an amazing surprise. This will be Matt Rodgers. I don't think so many time starts now. I don't think so, honey,

I was cut from three months. Basically I came in and I think what happened was I made such an impression in my screen time that they thought that they they thought, you know, Jared and the filmmakers, they really basically everyone's going to think now that this character comes, like this actor is so searing on screen that they're gonna think, oh, he's like a new character in the movie.

They thought Montgomery Addison Montgomery vibes like a Montgomery Shepherd five where they were like, like, we would have to do it often there's not necessarily the money for that. But basically, like I was giving you arm, I was giving you It was a really good arm day for me. They dressed me well, actually brought my own hordrobe to be honest with you, and I was having a really amazing time months. I had amazing chuntry the troy as

the director has even admitted to. And basically, I think I was cut because I made too much of an impression and they hate it when like the star sort of gets blown away on camera by another actor, and sort of I think I came in and like did that and like maybe we'll work together in the future. I don't know. I'm available for projects going forward. Can I just say I was so nervous about what I was going to say for I don't think so, honey, because I was like, I hope it's not too mean.

And now I'm really excited. Now we're going there, and now I kind of want to I'm trying to think of something for me and I can get really personal, not with anyone in the room, but just I just want to say that the character in the script was described as hot bartender Danny, and I was like, I don't know, Jared, and he was like, no, you should do it. And I went down and did it, and I skipped work and I went and did it only

to be cut. And it really hurt my heart because I knew how much I gave the film, and I feel that, you know, it's really tough, but I also know that life is very long, but my career will be very long. Aren't you happy you got cast in a role where the character's name is literally hot Danny? Like, doesn't that make you feel good? I guess I didn't do I didn't really do a great Oh my god, I can't speak to this anymore. You can't speak to this anymore. Interesting. It just hurts so much. Yeah, I know,

but who do you? Who do you blame for this? Jared? Jared? Okay, so this is Bowen Yang's time now, bow and Yang do you have a time? It just mean I think it's so perfect? Did there we go? Okay? This is time now? I don't think so, honey. The movie three Months being set in summer, and there's not one mention of the album Born This Way by Lady Gaga dominating the cultural conversation at the time. Why in a room full of queer people discussing their community, why is Lady

Gaga invisibilize crazy? It's insane? Tylorshipting is this in this universe? But Lady Gaga does not. Stephanie Gremanana Strasburg Stadislavski sends memory trained circle in the Square legend and nothing. Don't don't disrespect Gaga. The only person you could hold hold

a candle, boy smells candle to Taylor Swift herself. Now I need to see a version of I need to and the listeners need to take screenshots of three photoshop Lady Gaga in or a speech bubble of someone saying my favorite tracking off of the album is Government Hooker, and you have to five seconds Government Hooker Kevy mettal Lover her closest thing to an instrumental song. Amazing. We love seeing Goga being pushed in the direction. I can't see what she does next in the year twenty eighteen.

It will be my dream coming true if people take screenshots of this movie and the readers are very activated that whenever we have and we have three to draw a picture, they draw a picture and we love them for it. We love the readers. Can we stop and say we love the readers and you might get rewarded very soon over the summer for something. All I'm saying

is clear your schedules for this summer. The motherfuckers and the new readers are so dear to us, and I want to if I can have every single one of you, I would, I really would. I really We love you so much and you and you better put the speech bubble in for three months saying Gaga standom or else, we don't love you anymore. Can you guys do bloody Mary, which is like what I would have done? What is my favorite from that up. I think Government Hooker Shies

and have You Been a Lover? Hard? But also Judas is like Judas is a bad romance, Like it's so crazy. I was driving through the hills and I was like, this is this song Fox? Why did she get an Oscar nomination for I mean? You would I you? And that's that's such a good act of glory? Are you kidding me? It's her best album. I would also say this. A reader got in my d MS always and basically

confirmed that she is doing the top one song. Oh, that's cool, She's doing like the big song top A reader got in my DMS with intimate this is very doom wall of me. But like a reader got in my DMS with intimate knowledge of the fact that she has already shot footage for a video at like an air Force base. Sick. Yeah, it's not gonna be in a second another one. I mean, with no Bond movie out, there's nothing. I kind of a bummed that, Like Billie Eilish has just kinda kind of walked to this Austine,

She's not it's going to be Lynn. I think you think so. I think that Bruno is such a huge song right now and even though that's not the official submission because Bruno took off after they had already had to submit the song. I think people want to reward him.

He should have never lost for that Moana song, which is one of the greatest I want songs in the Dignity of Stars from how embarrassing it is so terrifying, and I know, I mean, like I love pastic and Paul and I just want to say I genuinely love pastic and Paul. Sure, I just think that was not I actually thought that audition was stronger than the City of Stars, and had that song one, I would have been like Slay and a half and the best part

of your believable. I completely agree. I completely agree, but all amazing songs. But like Lynna deserves, Billy also deserves. But I think he helped. I don't know if Billy deserves an Oscar for that song, she says, hounted. But then I guess you will win one some day, yeah, for sure. If not for this, than something for sure. All right, So I guess we've got to the point where it's Jared Freeders. I don't think so, honey, And I think I have some sort of idea of what

he might do. Because this is Jared Frieders, I don't think so many as time starts now, I don't think so honey. Matt Rogers telling me he was in love with me for the first time on this here podcast instead of in person. That's right, Readers Skinner episode. He was like, Oh, I think I might love Jared, but I don't know how to say it yet. All of a sudden, I get text from friends from back home being like, did you hear that your boyfriend's too scared to tell you he loves you in person? So he's

saying it on his podcast. I was like, what you're not, Terry Bradshaw, girl, talk to me in person, Bernie Brown, Vulnerability is important and you just never told me in person. And so then I had to be the one to say at first, which is like against my room. I did say it first, and it was well, I mean, saying it on a podcast doesn't count. Matthew. Sorry for this public sad right now, but how dare you tell

your beloved readers before you actually tell me? The person you know, Jane has never forgiven you for this because it was a traumatic event. You Okay, first of all, how dare you second of all? That's probably true anyway. Anyway, anyway, I'm glad you readers got the first scoop for that, the exclusive, because I was not. And that's one minute. Can I say that's wrong? Because I did say that to you, and then you were caught off guard by

it and didn't say it back. And then three days later you were like, hey, by the way, no no, no, no no, no lies a Minelli lies. Matt, absolutely not. You might have shared too much on the podcast, not too much, but you you classic you you made it. You made it a strange situation. When we broke up. I was like, Matt, I just asked that you don't

talk about on the podcast. Weeks later, I get a message from someone on Grinder on Grinder being heard, Hey, huge fan of your ex boyfriend's podcast, heard you guys broke up? Can I say something? I gave it several weeks and then I was like, and I just want to tell everyone because they know my life and I don't want to lie to them. I was just like, Jarn and I did break up. Everything's fine. You know

what the dark side of the moon really is. Most of your Grinder messages being about the fact that they're fans of your ex boyfriends. That's the dark side was actually discussing and then and then how do you deal with that because there are you like, don't respond, I don't respond. That's his iceberg. Yeah, that's my iceberg. It's just like, oh, I love Last Culture Stace, and I was like, I don't have nothing. Well, now you now you do have something to do with it because you're

on exactly the pow. So now you're actually moving your wonderful movie. Are you going to make your Instagram not private? Now it's not private? Yeah, oh so anyone can follow you. Unfortunately, that's unfortunate. Yeah, they see lots of wonderful pictures. That's because Jane thinks I'm a dog. I play with Jane like I'm a dog, and so she thinks I am one, and she responds to me different than other people, but a typical Matt fashion. He'll play with her. He's the

most fun person in the room. He'll rile her up and then she'll get too excited and he'll turn to me and be like, do something about this, and I'm like, I mean, really, Jane is one of the most beautiful dogs. In the world, and did I would tell you. I said a picture, like when we were dating. I said a picture of Jane to my my parents and my dad responded and he was like, Jane is like Greta Garbow. Jane is And I said, Audrey Hepperd Hepperd yesterday, that's true.

Has this like really ground not ground down? Just like beautiful, classic classic? She is so she's twenty eight giving Scarlett O'Hara. She's giving Jane is serving Puss. And whenever Joel talks to me about Jane, can you want to speak to this? Do you speak to this? Joel Kim Booster m one of your closest friends, one of my closest friends. How I met Matthew So Jared is extremely close friends with Joel Kim Lewis. Jared is close to Joel in a way that like is on a deeper level in some

ways than Mexica. Jared was Joel's l a best friend. Yes, yes, yes, that's how I met. I mean, this is really dark, but when the Pull shooting happened was the day that I met Joel, and I could like because I'm from Florida and I like knew people who knew people who were lost, so like, I could not go to the Carly Rage Jepson concert that night and we because I was too distraught, and I gave Joel in my tickets

and became best friends. Um. But Joel, while he is one of the greatest, funniest, most talented people on planet Earth, he literally hates my dog. And I think it's because he knows that she's a star and she the camera. Joel is not a dog person overall. He has he's interesting things to say about Greta's dog, Tiny, which is that she's too small to be a dog. I was like, I think that you're trying to do funny comedy and

it's rude. And he staided the other day that Jane is skinny and needy, like like him, and so that's why he's jealous. He's jealous of Jane. He's jealous. He has jealousy jealous. Also, Jane is obsessed with John Michael, Joel's boyfriend, and I think that that also has driven a wedge between Jane and Joel. Well John Michael, maybe

she thinks that he's me. Yeah, what's going on? Well, a beautiful episode, and I would love to say how proud I am of you because I saw firsthand how much it was to go through this, and just the film is very beautiful. And why I always tried to tell you the whole time is while it was difficult the entire time, like making an Indian movie like this, like what's really important is how people are going to

be moved and affected by it. And the fact is then people don't have this movie, but now they do, thank you, And so that's worth all of it, and it will open and already has opened so many doors. And like I just I'm so excited for you and so proud of you. Thank you, and every reader and fanshad know that, Like Matt was my lifeline during this entire process and makes me very emotional talk about and um, he's funny but also a great person, as is Bowen. And this is like a dream come true to be

on this podcast. So we're so happy to have you, and please stream three Months, which is out on Paramount Plus today. It's so exciting, and listen to the songs on Spotify, Weight and Trouble and watch the video and just celebrate and support this movie, you guys, because we're we don't get them it will be that you do. It really will be meaningful that you do watch it, just on an individual level, not to be full individualist here, but like it will be meaningful that you watch it

and take something away from it. You know that you haven't seen it and you will love you a lot. And I just I'm just saying it's there for you now. And how cool that you know it's just right there your fingertips to be able to watch. And what an amazing thing that you even got it made like so many people. It's like, like like you said, like for queer films, for queer art, like it's so hard. And as Taylor Swift says in the one, the best films are never made.

And I'll leave you guys with that and live with that. And you know we do end every episode with a song. This is for the best my reputation and then oor so he was liking me for me you can't wait and it was his knack and leave babe, but you can make me a drink one, two three, Let's go bitche on the East side of when you have the host of that song. Listen to Reputation by Taylor to Bye