Look mayre, Oh, I see you my own look over there is that culture. Yes, goodness lost culture, dang dong lost culturistas calling energy is high, energies high. We're a Webby Award winning podcast. Wow. Can you believe? Just when you thought we couldn't win moral awards? And I'm sure everyone was thinking that. Everyone was thinking that the podcast has received critical acclaim and has been signed in an academic words, it's been signed for our insight into the
entertainment industry. And if you thought that the discourse was over about current events, no, we haven't waited yet. So everyone step aside. Either will come a day when the project of this podcast is over, and that day will come when there are no more current events. Yeah, but actually current events are happening as we speak. But when we don't speak, will they happen. It's sort of a tree fall situation. It's a chicken or the egg, it's both those things. It's a tree falling on an egg
one hundred percent. It's a tree falling on an egg. If a tree falls in the forest and the egg cracks, was there ever an egg? And is this worth thinking about? Yes? Thank you for people who helped vote for us helped vote, and everyone who helped vote. If you helped vote, not if you voted, please you helped vote. Help out this year, end vote. Everyone this year has to help vote. Truly, thank you to everybody in this room, especially for helping
us with making the podcast happen. Yeah, thank you whatever you want here. And actually it was in this very room that the episode that we won. It was so we've won Best Individual Comedy Episode for our episode with Kelly Clarkson, and that was comedy and it was a rollicking comedy riot. Uh huh, you know all the comedy greats found dead with that one. Our funniest are offering now Webby Award winning, now be Award winning.
Speaking of offerings, I think that it's time. It's finally time for us to wait into the discourse that is the Tortured Poets Department.
And it's finally time. And I'm promising, I'm swearing on my life, we're gonna be talking about the year twenty thirteen. Yeah, it's happening. To get that out of the way. We're getting to we're not punting it, we're not kicking it down the road. It's gonna happen. Yeah, but we're gonna do what we do and talk about this new big album that came out. This is a stamming a run of a year for us. This has been music here, not since like what twenty ten, twenty eleven have the
girlies been this prolific. I mean it's been overwhelming. And also it's not even like, for example, like with Tortured Poets. She long and so there's a lot of music on top of all the other new music.
And also you have to remember I'm newly in Mi Lana era, right, so I have all these albums to get through. I have homework. I haven't felt like this since AP Environmental. Would you believe I got a bad score on AP Environmental? You don't like the Earth?
Not a big fan because it's full of toxic trolls. They're living under the crust those trolls. Now we have to have to before we talk about Tortured Poets Department. Yeah, talk deeply about the best song of the year so far,
and that is Espresso. And I want to say that last week I sort of popped off about Coachella and I said, like a lot of things, and I feel that I paid Sabrina a little tiny bit of dust because I kind of popped off about Chapel and then I went from Chapel over to Sabrina and Serena was just giving a different it's a different gear. It's not that anything was better or worse. It was just like it's a different show. She's in her cute little dresses singing in front of like a desert motel set, which
I thought was really cute and inspired. But it was really cute. I mean the whole thing, like her entire aesthetic right now in the way that they're presenting the album and the new single, Like I think it's great. And she I didn't realize she had so many albums, but she had a lot of albums.
Yeah, she's been around, and it feels like they finally snapped into something really cool with her where she's she's this like cute little like nostalgia almost like beat Like what would you call those movies like Fello.
A net Footicello. Well, I mean she literally was in a remake of Adventures and Babysitting, Yeah, you know what I mean. Like she is like a kind of like child star that like I don't know, hasn't been really pinballed around the industry and like she kind of at this point has landed as like fun cool, chill, girly like Espresso is that. Espresso is that if you like watch her interview, she's just like funny girl. Yeah, we
like her. Cool check and Sabrina, Sabrina, You're invited on the pod if you want to come, if you want to come here, you have a spot here. There is a place for you at the table. There is a place for you on last Culture and we want a webby okay, and you might get it's another one. It might be the funniest episode of the year. Our episode was Sabrina Carpenter. You might be the new Richard pryor Sabrina Carpenter if you come on this podcast. I see that for her.
I'm telling you, like I'm listening to Espresso, I'm streaming. So that's what I'm saying is it's like there's so much that, but this is taking a song to.
Pop out like that, and I love that. This is during the Torture Poet's discourse, we cannot stop talking about espresso. But I have to say that's the vibe. It is crack cocaine, an addictive drug that I made. Yeah, exactly episode when she does her little dance and I know you can do it, so show us that's stem me es. You do it, that's stem meestress and listen like you can't see us doing it, but just know we're doing
it exactly right. Yeah, even better than Sabrina. Even better than Sabrina Sabrina.
If you come to this podcast and you allow us to interview you, you can watch us do the choreo and then and then.
Retire because no one's doing your dance moves better than us. Let me tell you something, Well, shut it down. No, she's she's on her way. She's not not what am I saying? She's not on her way, she's she's a rye.
No, but I think that she's continuing to like well, I think this last album because I did, I a bunch of her stuff. Album album is great. I love Tornado Warnings, I love Opposite.
Opposite is so fun, already over, already over because I loved it. Boy. I mean, if you just listen to that album all the way through, so good, nonsense nonsense. I love Yeah so much. It's such a sweet song. Yeah.
I mean, also the way that she ends every live performance with like a different rhyme rhyme.
Okay, I don't know. I just think she's fucking cute and great and more. And I guess Tortured Poets Department was made by I suppose her mother, her mom, her mom, Taylor Taylor's and she is the world's mom. Let's talk Tortured Poets Department. This is an album that I'm just gonna say up top, we will look back on and
be like, damn, this is pretty fucking major. I think that what's happening right now is the discourse is out of fucking control and people are bending themselves into a pretzel trying to figure out what they want to like land on in a concrete way. And like, I think the fact that it was thirty one songs like made everyone so like frustrated and overwhelmed that that, like that was the headline, right, Because Yeah, here's the thing, this is my take. I'm just gonna get out of the way.
She needed to get to thirty one, right, And I don't discount that as a reason as a motivating force, because so much of this album is her literally subverting, inverting all these things that we know about her. Yeah, and like she's basically instead of breaking any new sonic ground, she is dipping back into I think you were the one to put this idea into my head, Like she's dipping back into all of her old styles and albums
and approaches to songwriting. And she's kind of, as it were, putting like a Sepiatone filter on everything, which is kind of what she was doing on social media anyway, Like
all of it was being like Cepiotone, right. It was like whatever photos were coming out of the tour in the post US legs were like, oh, this is like the treatment now for everything, And I think this is retroactively the treatment in a very clever clever seems like so like not the right word like savvy way where it's like when she was putting out those playlists and Apple music where it was like, oh, it's all the stages of grief. It's her like recontextualizing all her own music.
I think that is a very intentional thing. Think that is a statement on the album itself, which is, yeah, everything you know about me, I'm looking back at retroactively redundant, but yes, you know what I mean, Like I'm retroactively considering this and the chapter is closed, We're moving on. Yeah.
I mean, I think the fact that she came out and said this was a chapter in my life that's closed, we're moving on, like, is such an because I remember when the Aristotle was happening. I threw out there at one point, like I wonder how healthy it is to be doing this and also have the entire world's attention. And some people were like, oh, like she's speculate. I'm like, how healthy it is? Blah blah blah, Like you know that.
But I also think that she's sort of answered that question here, which is it was not the healthiest time of her life doing this, like she had this relationship and and whatever about the personal aspects of it all, because I'm I think we're putting the car before the horse a lot with her, because if you just make
it about the music, it's a way simpler conversation. There are so many fucking incredible songs on this, and I really think people would do themselves a favor if they started listening to her music as if they're the protagonist of the songs and not she is the protagonist, or by the same token, the antagonist of these songs like take Taylor Swift out of it and just experience the song just a big ass.
Yeah, it's not as easy as it is said to accomplish because I think that she obviously looms so large. But what I'm I guess pulling is that, like, this album is a collection of songs that she wrote during one of the most intense periods of her life, and so yes, it is a little bit messy.
Yes, it is like big. It's also like lyrically.
People saying that she's not experimenting here, she's like way more frank, she curses a lot more, she's like talking about like it's just like a rougher, dirtier, like more textured lyric throughout. Then I think she's given so to say there's no experimentation here, I don't think is totally correct. I get that it feels like a lot of these sounds we've heard before, but if you really listen to this album, I think what she gave is like nineties VH one country rock, girly, and that is kind of
what I wanted. Yeah, it's just there is so much music, so it's hard to get through it all just physically, and I think that's informing some of the takes, like Oh, I'm throwing my hands up in there because I'm already overwhelmed this too much. But once you really fucking listen, there's a ton of great.
Fucking shit here. It is that genre and I love that for her. Yes, I agree with all of what you're saying. What I did last night was, if you have an Apple Music subscription, put it on the TV, have the lyrics next to you. Yes. Yes, it's such an interesting experience. I think she also it doesn't really matter, but it's like I think what she would want because it is such a right early album. Yeah, it is such a lit Manger kind of thing. Yeah. I found it really really engrossing in that way.
Yeah, it's so funny because she rotates between being very like one to one in her lyrics, like and now I'm down bad crying at the gym. Yeah, and then in like contrast to that, there's the Albatross and there's like almost everything on the anthology which is like very dense. And I think that some of the comments, like in some of the more negative reviews, is that it feels like it's too much words and it needs like inner cuts and edits to like get through it.
But I kind of think that all of that is the point. Like it's like, yeah, it's her version of a tortured poetry book that she's putting through a Taylor Swift lens. Yeah, And if it's polarizing to people, A, I think that's good, and I think that will make everything about going forward more interesting. And B I think again, you don't have to sit there and listen to all thirty one of these in a row. No, like, let them just be songs. Yeah, because that's really all I are. People. Hmmm.
I think that her not having this filter. I think this album is like an unfiltered cigarette totally her not having that filter literally figuratively. I think she is seizing this as the first post Eras tour album released, Like every eye and ear is gonna be on this. What can I do that I can only do now? Like this is another carte blanche for me, right, because you know what, she didn't really get that with nineteen eighty nine.
She did not get the opportunity to do a post Imperial Phase album to be like I can make this whatever I want, right, She was kind of backed into recorder was pushed into push into reputation, and.
In saying that, like as a follow up to nineteen eighty nine, even without all the stuff around it, reputation like incredible album r but like she conceptually had to have some reactionary work, like after the whole Kim Kanye show.
Yes, she did not have the opportunity until now to come off of one of the biggest moments of her career and then be like I can do whatever. This is true imperial phase. I'm lucky enough to get a second one. Yes, what can I do with this opportunity? This is maybe the only time in her career. I don't know, this is not totally informed, but like she's gonna put out an album with thirty one songs on it and have everyone listen to it, right what I mean? Yes?
I feel like also one thing that's getting lost is when people are like, oh, it's thirty one songs, Like that's too much for an album. It is two albums. There's a fifteen song album and a sixteen song second album, or a sixteen song album and a fifteen song follow up.
So think about it that way if people need it to be easier for them. But I think like what you're saying about it feeling cumulative and also imperial, especially in this moment, is so dead on, because what I think we have here is.
Like the bitchy grown daughter of Red and Reputation. Like I really feel like that's what we have here. It feels like a sequel to both those albums to me in a way, Red because of the genre that I think we pretty much land on and Yes, and also Reputation in that there is a lot of comment personal comment that you can apply to yourself once you get through like what this moment is, which is the release and everyone doing the decoding thing that happens with her.
What you'll find is I think similar to what you find with Reputation, which is just great music. Yeah.
And I also think it's like that daughter of Red and Reputation, like graduated from Evermore College and vacation did Midnights. And I feel like there's also a lot of speak now in this just sonically there's a lot of speak now. Yeah, I think so high school is speak now, I think so.
And I also think that Clara bo kind of gives speak now, Clara Bow gives Lucky from Red too. Yeah, It's like the grown up version of the Lucky Ones, right.
And I think that what's so great about all of this is that it was created during the Eras tour, when she was immersed in all of those eras. So as a fan, this is very satisfying if you're looking
at it like a collective. And I also think just from an artistic standpoint, what she's done is she has funneled what I would essentially call and I'm not saying this pejoritay ofly like a manic period, and you feel that in the music, like the extremes of the emotions, like the extremes of the lyricisms, the sort of places that she's going. Sometimes I recognize it as being like a pure example of whatever emotion that is.
Like Who's afraid of Little Old Me?
Is pure anger channeled into this like big pop song, which is like again, like I think, spiritually a sequel to reputation in a really fun way. And I I also think there's like some question about like how seriously she takes herself as like a tortured poet. Remember guys that she's like the biggest and best pop star in the world, and she's incredibly good at putting on these different costumes, she in fact knows they are eras well enough to brand it that way. So she is wearing
a costume as this tortured poet. She went through something, saw what the body of work was giving and said, this is like tortured poetry, and I see an aesthetic there. So that to me is all fun and specific and great. And she does seem in control of it me in a complete way.
And some people seem to really bristle at this theory, and I kind of have like some weariness around it. But like if like the asylum imagery motif in this is connecting to like a manic episode, which like a lot of people really like have sensitivities around that word totally of course, so valid, But I I like that lens too of like, oh, yeah, this relationship you were in for six seven years is over as you're on the highest grossing tour of all time right while you're
dating this like really chaotic person. Like all of these things are like shrapnel in the explosion. Yeah you know what I mean? Yes, And I also think she has always in fact, it's been like the bit about her, like she puts her relationships into her music, right, and so that's like a way that she funnels her emotion.
And so the fact that she had this one relationship that has defined a lot of her music from probably the past better part of a decade ending and this other one starting and being so crazy like that insanity and like I said that messiness, and I say that in a good way, like this was always gonna be the kind of album that she made at this time. Huh. The fact that it feels like a little whatever quote unquote unedited, I think is good and interesting and exciting
me too. I'm sure people will listen to this and it'll come off as us like quote unquote defending her. I don't really feel that she doesn't. She doesn't need defense or protection really, and what she has done that I think is forever like defining her career, which is
like crazy to think about it this way. She's like really and I say this like genuinely, like this is genius, Like she did something that not a lot of artists have done, which is with the Eras tour when she announced that concept, like it was so revolutionary, but it was. It's just like she destroys the binary between like new work old work because it's like you're touring artist. Let's
say you're McCartney. You go out with your new album, people still want to hear you sing like Backbird, you know, like they want you to play the hits. This is someone who like the legacy stuff and the new stuff is on the same level. Like that hasn't really ever happened. I mean, like in my memory, my myopic, small limited scope, like that hasn't happened before. Like an artist who like
fucking changes the paradigm so completely. And I think going forward, I don't know what she does except for recontextualize all of the stuff that comes before. I think, whatever she does going forward, And I'm so interested to see what twelve and thirteen are albums twelve and thirteen are because it's like, up until thirteen, is it gonna be like just And I hope it's not, because there is a danger to this. I hope it's not pure navel gazy.
I hope it's not pure like let's look at what I've done, even though she's allowed to do that because she is so prolific that way. But I'm like, my gut is telling me this is her album of like let me just get all of the retrospection out of the way. Yeah, and then twelve is going to be something interesting, I hope, I'm sure. And thirteen is gonna be oh, whatever it is, it's gonna be huge and
studio symbolic. It's gonna represent something. The obvious thing to me seems to be like it'll be like country, pure country again when that like quote unquote trend is maybe like done with the other girlies, like she will return to that and like claim it as hers or something.
But yeah, I mean like in some ways this is reminding me of reputation when people were like she's over exposed, like there is that fatigue setting in which, you know, I think she also saw coming where it's like she might as well like ride that wave and like put out something that will be polarizing and divisive and people
will have opinions about. Yeah. I think it was surprising that it was coming now, of course, because it really feels like a fall album and you know what I mean, like and it kind of feels like it would be in line with the stuff that she is, you know, famously and historically released in the Fall, and it doesn't feel like it's giving summer, So maybe that is some of like the polarized reaction is just people like not necessarily being in the mood for what they certainly will
be in the mood for when they have their little hot Coco in there. This is gonna fucking hit kN October.
It really is, And I feel like the reason why it's coming now in April is because they had to probably add it to the tour. I would imagine that we're getting serious cuts to the Era's tour and they're gonna give a whole tortured poet section at the end,
and like She's gonna go in. We're probably getting seven songs and we'll talk about like specifically what might be fun to see because I go back and forth, like literally I yesterday I tried to make like a playlist, like if I were to narrow down the album, you know what I mean, Like even doing that, like my playlist just this album was still over twenty two to twenty three songs ago. There's not that much here. There's not as much chap as people are saying, not at all.
And if there are those songs that you think are on that short list, listen to them again. Because even if it might not hit at first, Like there's really interesting lyrical stuff happening here, and like I just think that it's better than you think. And I think we're kind of like tripping ourselves up by being overwhelmed. People have been so defensive about their reaction to this album, Like I've had more than one person come to me and be like, I haven't gotten through it yet.
I just feel like it's a lot. I'm like, babe, I don't care if you like it or don't like but there is this preciousness and this like you know, panic about reacting to this album and like arriving at a take, which is like not why we have music. There's a metatake on it for people to write. There's like I have a take on my take, yes, which is so interesting. Maybe we're like doing that right now too.
You know. I literally got tripped up last night because I was like, oh God, like I can't then I was our episode about tortured poets, like what are we gonna say? And I'm like, wait, hold on, slow your role for a second. Music. It's music, and it's fucking great music.
And I think like these bizarre like sprints to the take are not gonna work on something like this and you're gonna look back on your take or your work
and you're gonna be like hmmm. I reacted to that quickly, like it happens with her all the time, like Pitchfork, And I did think that that review did make some points, but I thought it was about a point too low or a point and a half too low in terms of the score, because we have yet again with her, like they in particular have done many times, because they retroactively rate her.
Hire a lot. Yeah, they interroactively rate everyone a lot higher. Yes, And I feel like we in the race to have a take or try to figure out this album, you're actually doing a disservice to a lot of the work here, because while again I think there are some points to be made about, like it might be interesting to see her work with someone outside of Jack and Aron next time.
Like I do agree that any artist should have a period where they go off and reconfigure and like start working with new people, and I think it is revitalizing. We remember when Beyonce took time off before four and came back as a new artist. You know, that's like exciting and that's an opportunity. So I think there is some stuff in the criticism here that's potential to listen to. When I say that as a huge fan of not only just Taylor but also Jack and Aaron, So I
think there is something there. But it is the Internet culture, yeah, and that's nobody's fault, except like the culture of spreading to a take with everything, and you know that's nothing new. Yeah, I don't know. It's reminding me of Reputation a lot, where there were just these god like so many informational pieces about like what's this lyric mean? And in the
end that stuff doesn't really matter. And I'm not saying I'm like inoculated from like what everyone else is thinking and feeling, but like, I don't really care what song is about Maddie and what song is about Joe. I'm kind of like I don't care about that at all, and neither does any of her fans. Like when you go to the aristour like and you look around and you see someone living their fucking life singing all too well,
they're not thinking about how that's about Jake Jillnhull. They're thinking about how it applies to their life, which is I guess why I'm saying, like, start listening to her music as if you're the protagonist and try to apply it to your own life instead of like falling down a cliff trying to like figure out what it means for her. It doesn't need to be that. She's always been the best.
Communicator in pop music songwriting because she can communicate.
What you are feeling, what her audience is feeling, and that's still here. I think this album has some of her best songwriting. And I also agree that it is superfluous, like any other thing, you know what I mean, Like, yeah, like any other of her albums, And I think she understands that on some level, it's okay not to like tie it back to my work. But it's like it's like when everyone's like snalos'm and goods and blah blah blah. If you go back and pick any episode from any season,
it's like watch one episode. There's some great sketches, there's some bad sketches, there are some mid sketches. That's just how it works, because why we have to fill out an hour and a half of television, right that is like part of the production and like and but you're thinking Oh it's Taylor Stow. She can make any album any links to what she wants totally. But like I'm saying,
I think she wanted to get to thirty one. Yeah, because it is, you know, neatly this subverted, reversed thing that like we know, we think we're so familiarized with something about her, and yet she is telling us that, like and maybe she's inverting it because it's like this is probably the most internally mainlined album she's ever put out. Yeah too, you know that she's her insides are out. Literally some of the.
Lines, I'm like so shook by that sounded so fucking basic, but like what I guess what I mean is like what if he's written mine on my upper thigh only in my mind? Like Guilty of Sin Is, I think my favorite song on the album, and I'm gonna say this out into the atmosphere.
This must be in the tour. Okay, Guiltiest sin Is.
I think some of her best writing and specific like that thing of when you've already been romantic intimate with someone to like an embarrassing degree, to an emotional degree, because you know that's where it's headed, like.
That your mind has got ahead of itself, has got ahead of reality. Yeah, there's just not a lot of songs that can like not only spell out that specific feeling, but then like really it takes you on a ride that song. And I love the type of song that is.
I made a list of, like I guess, like all my favorite songs in order, and the stuff that rises to the top for me is this like nineties like rock moment, like but Daddy, I love him. I think the chicks would be proud of that, you know what I mean, Like Guiltiest Sin incredible, like so high school, Oh, so high School's amazing. I love the Black Dog so much. I love that starting line reference made me scream.
We watched it.
Who listened to it together? And also God blessed the starting line And they're streaming numbers now they just pop all the way off and they're thankful. Yeah, I mean, but that's like old habits die screaming, Like come on, I don't know like this, don't talk to me about how she's Some of these articles were like fun to read, I guess, Like the paste article I thought was fun to.
Read, you know what I mean, Like I thought the pork thing.
It was brutal, but like I was reading it as if like, this is this person popping off, not like I, yeah, I necessarily agreed. I was just like, oh, this is content about this album that I find entertaining. I'm sure you know Taylor read it and had a different perspective, but I was like, yeah, interesting and so intense unproving that she's like lost it or flopped on this album.
And they basically did the equivalent of like screenshotting the quote unquote cringe lyrics and putting them in highlight.
But I was gonna be my I don't think so, honey, Yes, and it should be.
Yeah, But I was just like, this article deliberately ignores so much of the excellent work here, and that's really just a testament to how fucking high level of quality she always delivers. That people can literally with a com go through and pull out lyrics and like try to, you know, sniper rifle find where she's maybe slipped up, Like I'm sorry, but she hasn't. Over twenty of these are genius.
What's like that is like the definition of like removing context from something right, Like I also, I kind of my eye just skims over in any review for any album. Yeah, like when they reference the lyrics, I understand, like journalistically, that's like what you're supposed to do. But I'm like, if I read a song lyric no matter what, no matter who it's by, I'm gonna be like, that sounds stupid. Yeah,
you know you know what I mean. Even poetry, if it's like if the line breaks, if it's not formatted the way that like the poet intended, I'm like, yeah, well that's dumb. That sounds stupid as fuck. But yeah, I mean I get why it's done. And I do love the memes of people like taking the genius you know Instagram post graphing their own lyrics onto it, for sure. But sometimes when people are like why is she talking about Grand Theft Daughto, It's like, okay, oh give me
a break, it's just on line. Just just listen to the song. The article is about being like in a high school mentality, touch me while your bros played Grand Theft Auto. But you loved that line when we heard it, Like it's like I appreciate that she wrote a song for len me. Yeah, I mean what American pie Grand Theft daughta. Yeah. Oh this is also six is coming out soon anyway, so just wait a year and then
you're gonna fucking love it. This is what I'm gonna say when that article is like an album that will single handedly set poetry back like by existing, Like, first of all, shut the fuck up, because she is again, I'm a pop star who is doing this tortured poet thing like it's a pop star era. It's a character. It's like a character. It's not like she doesn't actually consider herself a tortured poet.
Like she even said like I'm not Patti Smith, You're not Dylan Thomas in torture Poet's the song like this isn't the Chelsea Hotel, Like it's not.
Actually that deep.
It's just a way for her to commit to an aesthetic that matches the sound and the tone of what she's doing.
So what I would say is like touch grass. If that's what your takeaway is, don't worry. Poetry is okay. Taylor Swift is not destroying or setting back poetry. It's that kind of like hyperbolic commentary on this type of thing, which a is just too fast, too soon, and also be like you know, that's not what is happening here, Like you the writer know she's not setting poetry back with this. It's a pop music album. Do we want to look at tracks highlight?
I mean, let me just say down bad crying at the gym when she fucked that alien. I said, this was I already have a music.
Video in my head for this. I really hope she'd makes the video with this. I love want tout an alien abduction.
Uh, she got abducted by this alien, sent back and now she's down back, crying at the gym, fucking icing her injuries.
Like my first couple listens, I was like, oh, she's talking about an X. I was like, oh okay, like did you beat me up? Like okay, great, But then like that line of like they'll think I'm nuts if I like talk about your existence Like I'm like, oh of course, Like it's yeah, I love that. It's like post breakup depression grafted onto like being abducted by aliens and also something that like didn't happen for our long time.
It's like this experience, it's more it's less a relationship she had and more of an experience that she had in an emotion that she feels as a result of it like have don't we all had that metaphor, he had that metaphor of like oh God.
It felt like I was like wraps her up into the sky. I mean, that's what the cosmic thing of it is. And I do think a lot of this also speaks to Ariana's album, like like Ariana's album is about that experience too, of like reeling outside of something and then entering something else. And I also think it's the miracle move on drug. Yes, there's a lot going on here, even a lot of the visuals. It feels like there was like some like mindedness in a good way.
But when I first listened through Down Dad was just.
It popped out to me because it's Taylor, and I think that there's not a lot of Taylor on this album, and after Eras when it was extremely Taylor, like to get so much Taylor hard or tailor like feels maybe not we wanted her expected, but it kind of is
what I wanted and expected. Yet there are things like down Bad where she goes fucket a fuck can't have him, or I can be like a little bitch walking the streets and like you know, might shake my Tayla asks you know what I mean people saying that there's not a lot of opportunities to shake your ass like Tayla on this album, Like, just do another listen through because down Bad is here for you. Like you know, there's moments, it's just it's a more like it's balance, and that's
just what it is. She gave you nineties v H one woman, It's it's quill Pen, Fountain Pen, Taylor. I don't think we've ever done the one to one on Tayla.
Taylor taylora every now and then with what she has parsed out herself as I have songs that are quill Pen, glittergel Pen. Yeah, fountain Pen and glitter jel Pen obviously is Taylor or Tayla. I'm so sorry, Oh my god, Wow, I can't believe they got that wrong. And it's a little bit murkier when you go into quill pen found Pen territory. But both of those kind of combined to form Taylor. Yeah again, Taylor knows about Taylor Taylor.
She now knows, and so that's why she approached this album the way she did as a result of your interaction with her.
I know you love the Albatross I love the Albatross so much. When I first saw this as a track, this is supposed to be one of the bonus tracks on the original album, I was like, Oh, is this a Fluwood Mac reference? Because before Stevie and Lindsay joined, Fleetwood Mac has an instrumental song called Albatross and Baby put it on before you go to bed. It is gonna send you to Dreamland. It's gonna put you on the little barge to Dreamland and then push you down
the river. Such a beautiful and enchanting song. I thought it would be referenced to that. It wasn't. I was shocked, delighted. It's a really beautiful song. I think this has her best lyrics.
I think not only would I comment lyrics, can I agree with you? It's like among her better lyrics, but.
Her vocal on this is really good, Like the Albatross has some incredible backing vocals like this is what I'm saying is it's like you can't appreciate the texture of all of this reacting quickly to an album this long and this vast, because you need to have a take, like, actually listen to what's going on here, Like the Albatross has just incredible stuff happening lyrically, sonically, like this is I think, by far one of the best. Like I made this list last night. It's one, two, three, four,
five on my list. Great, it's ranked.
I have Guilty of Sin number one, but Daddy I Love Him number two, down Bad number three, the black Dog number four, Albatross number five, so high School number six, Fresh Out the Slammer I love.
I love Rush Out the Slammer because she gave you a little bit of this fresh other slammer. And I said, thank you, thank you.
Taylor for showing up, because you're welcome here always Taylor. Yes, and then I have Fortnite, which grew on me, Thank you, Amy, and Love of my Life.
Those are my top ten love. I have not taken it upon myself to rank, and that's what makes this album. So choose your own adventure. Yes.
And by the way, this playlist that I made is called this is what I personally believe, and.
I will share a public is the Matt Rogers catchphrase. That's the essence in one sense. Honestly, this could be the album title. This is what I personally believe.
Maybe that's my next album is called this is what I personally believe, and it's tortured Poets Coded, and that's the.
Title of this episode. This is what I personally believe. What do you think of thank you Amy? And the capitalization of K, I and AM as letters. I love capitalizing on those letters. I think that Taylor this is a sign of Taylor being fully of like the reason why everyone's like, why is she still you know, relitigating this or digging this up again? Because I think it is purely retrospective, right. I think she's looking back at like the whole story of Taylor Swift because it's been
motivated by the Ariostour. I think she's looking back on a lot of the things that have defined her career so far, and she's going, let me actually leave this behind. That's where thirty one comes in, you know, like, let me actually like subvert this move on the chapter is closed. Like I believe her when she says that. I think
it's a great song. I love Cassandra, which is kind of also spiritually in the same world of like this person's been wrong, Cassandra of Troy, nobody would listen to her and the albatross who speaks to that, like I have been so maligned and so labeled as these things like you coming into proximity with me puts you in danger, and all the warnings that could possibly come your way that you ignore them shows true love for me. Yes, I mean that's great, that's great. There's a lot going
on in that song. I think there are a lot of ways that it can be read. Yeah, totally, and but wise men one said wild Winds or Death to the Candle, that's your opening line, bitch, don't talk to me about bad songwriting, like you sound so stupid, like I'm so sorry, but like, do not tell me bad songwriting when these are the lyrics like get out of town wild Winds. I believe that is a Romantics era poet Tree reference right of like Transcendentalism, Like I'm getting
my shit mixed up. But it's like nature being sublime, nature like you are powerless to it, like death to the candle, like it is snuffing out this man made thing. Like there's something about her art which is sublime, which is like bigger than her, bigger than us, you know, Like she's saying that like she she is a wild wind and like people want to like cage that people want to contain that people fear it because they don't
know it, because it's it has this inexplicable effect. I think this album is like it doesn't talk about things beyond her, and that's okay because I think it is like her reckoning with like what she means, what her life has been, what she wants it to be going forward.
And I think it's like I think Clara Beau is such a beautiful closer because it's like, this is what my legacy means, and someone someday will always like people will always try to like build on it and then maybe erase it and be like, oh, here's someone new who reminds us of her but is better. It's like a very bittersweet song. It's a little bittersweet, Like it's like that idea.
That like you could be the one, and then when that happens, it like comes with all these contradictions and all these crazy things and like ultimately an ego check
at the end, you know what I mean. That's like and I think that's why it's really fitting that that song is last on the first album, because what I love about this and the writing and why I do think at some of the boldest writing she's done is because she is not afraid to look crazy, like she is not afraid to look like the biggest version of all of her emotions. I think, thank you, Amy. The capitalizing of Cam is vindictive as fuck. And I think
it's because she's a little vindictive. Yeah, and she is really out here being that, So you being like, ugh, she's vindictive, like for that. She knows that, you know what I mean, Like, she gets it. She wrote the song, she felt the emotion, she put it out there for everyone. It wasn't a mistake to capitalize it, ki Am. I mean she's feeling vindictive. She feels very hurt still from that person trying to let me remind everyone destroy her
completely and take away her credibility. So the fact that she turned that into what that song is, which is when you take away all the battles and mussles and all the headlines about it, it's a song about thanking your bully for making you better, and that that is gonna connect with her fans, with people that have experienced
that in the past, are experiencing it. She is who she has always been, but an extremely elevated and still ever challenging version of that, and I think that that's fucking great.
And like I said, I think it's good that this is polarizing.
I think it's good that not every single piece that she ever puts out is like a ten out of ten five stars, like in terms of the way that it's received, because that would not be good for her or for us.
I mean, I think she knew. It doesn't matter what she knew or knows. I think there's no way this album is like universally acclaimed.
No way, because it is like all these things, and I'm just it is too long, it is too verbos, it is to this, to that, too much of the same, too much of this that the other thing. Like this's gonna be so many things people can say about this and different angles people can take. That's sort of just don't get to the heart of it, which is that the music is fucking great.
Internet seems to not care for the alchemy. It's like my favorite.
I think the alchemy is romantic and fun and uzzy and big and beautiful and gorgeous. And I think if the lyrics are a little on the nose, that's fucking great because it's someone being like, after all this noise and all this like challenge and all this chaos.
I'm just gonna tell you my boyfriend who plays football, touch down, ultimately, touchdown, Ultimately touchdown. It's actually a real culture. Number eighty eight ultimately touchdown, touch down. Call the amate jersey, come from the team, the clowns, take the cram. Baby, I want to be Oh my god, I don't know. It's so, it's adorable, it's great.
I love it, And can I shout out one of my favorite songs that's been sneaky And this is why you have to keep going, be patient with the album and like, listen to the miss songs. I look in People's windows.
Oh, I love that. Love this song. She's like again, like she's not hiding from the fact that she's a fucking freak obsessed, you know, Like the shortest song on the album. Yeah, who can't relate. I guess people that are insane, but like, there have been times after I've had things dissolve where I've literally looked for that person, like and I mean, what if you looked up and we locked eyes one more time? Like that thing of like I need to stay vigilant because it's not dead
for me. And I'm holding on to hope that it's not dead for you for that one moment, like and it's worth it for me to like put all this energy and be this freak and look peer in from the insides for that one moment and the urgency in that song I love. I love that it abruptly ends, almost like she's embarrassed about sharing the thought, like I
love it. It evokes this thing that you thought different for her with such a personal corner, and it's it's kind of not it's kind of universalized in this huge album that like yeah, everyone's heard and like yeah, I mean, I don't really care that it's a numbers ploy that like thirty one so that I could have like the biggest streaming debut and that the sales equivalences or the streaming equivalences to unit sales whatever, blah blah blah blah. I like the business side is something that like I
also am like for some reason tuning out. For me, it's just like listen to the songs because if you do, you'll get a song like but Daddy, I love him, and you'll get to enjoy it because it sounds fucking great and it's a lot of fun and also you'll realize like it is actually incredibly risky for her to say fuck off to her own fans. You know what I'm saying.
It's like that to me is when the album, like when I was first listening to it, when the album really took off from me, was track six, But Daddy, I Love Him.
I will say.
When I first started listening to the album, Fortnite took a second for me. I was like, I know, I feel like I know in my heart this is going to be the single, So let me try to wrap my head around that. The song has grown on.
Me so much. I'm struggling a little bit with Tortured Poet's Department. The song like, to me, it's just a little like I don't get it yet.
But then right after that, like the album like really ticks off from me, and by the time but Daddy I Love Him was happening, I was like, this feels like like a like a spiritual successor to like read and like all too well, like the fact that it's like over five minutes long and it's like this like epic narrative and it being that long and containing so much like anger towards people who like, quote unquote want the best for her but could never actually understand her.
Yeah.
I think that also speaks to we can't be friends. On Ariana's album, I think these girls are reckoning with the fact that people that they love and appreciate are driving them fucking nuts.
Well, it's it's now becoming a somewhat phenomenon, somewhat of a phenomenon where it's like you have Doja openly violently being like, fuck my girls, and it's like, like the girl Like I think like this, like this is when stand culture starts to like evolve into a new stage where like maybe it's unhealthy for everyone, yes, like including the stands, including the people they like worship. It's like if someone and I'm not gonna name names, but there
are people out there who fully embrace the fans. Yeah. And pathology, Yeah, there's pathology. Like it's not great if you are out there completely embracing all of the mania in that. Yeah, if you're inviting more mania into your life because it is mania. Yeah. And yeah, it's perfect blue. It's perfect blue, and it's actually really culture number three. Uh, it's perfect blue. And I also think like it's a message to people like, listen, if I'm going to fuck up,
just let me fuck up. Just let me do it, because because there's actually like there's no way, yeah, that I'm gonna stop living my life for everyone, and you wouldn't really want that, Like who would want their favorite artists to not live their fucking life and make mistakes and like be able to be the messy fucking version. Right, it's not Twitch Place Pokemon. I was just gonna say, you know what I'm talking about, Yeah, oh yeah, were
you following Twitch Place Pokemon. This is when Twitch literally first started first started out whereas everyone was inputting, it was like millions of people inputting like up, down, ab left, right, yes, a game of Pokemon red or Pokemon Blue, and then somehow they got all the way to the end. But it was it was like your character is kind of like walking up and down and like dying, like remember this.
It was like by committee. You cannot do this. You cannot live a life by not live a life by committee. And that's real coachure number ten. You cannot live a life by committee. It'll end up being Madam web. It'll end up being Madam Webb. I didn't see it oh you should. It's so good.
No, that invalidates everything we've ever said. Madam Web is the best film of the year, Last calls, canceled, Awards taken away, oh my god, trophies, stripped of our trophies.
Oh my god. I would love to ultimately one day my awards taken away from me, stripped of my trophy. That I think is such a Chikh phrase. They were stripped of their trophies. I think Taylor wants that too. I think Taylor secretly wants is pining for a scene, just for the cinema of it to be like no, don't, but donny, I love it well, like literally, like we're taking your Grammys away, No, all five hundred of them. What would she have to do to have her Grammys
taken away? I don't know, I mean she, I don't know. What would she have to do.
She has to come out as the reason why there are natural disasters? Right, yeah, hey, I've ever heard of hurricanes? That was me when I pointed at the crowd and sow pallo, right.
I I was thinking more something along the lines of like the Recording Academy, like she you know, like she does some equivalent of the slap she did the slap, she certainly would have come out, would not have been invited to come out of Coachella. Oh God, here we go, Here we go. Smith's back, y'all. This is it's an excellent album. We love it and of course we do because it's good, because it's good. And but if you had to tweet that one viral congratulations, congratulations on your
contribution show. No.
I love tweets, I love Twitter. I think I think that it's great. I'm so sorry, ze it's X.
I forgot. I think it's great. I think it's I think it's worthy. Well, they're supposed to be because it's it's it's there's zeats, it's it's X. I'm sorry. But if you're calling Twitter called posts, now, no, they're called zeats. And I don't make the rules. I just say the rules. Now. I want baked zeats, okay, I want big seats too, and wash out the slimmer ah no whom lovers call it beats. Mussy will be to my big ZD place as promised, we are here to talk about twenty thirteen,
a cultural excavation. Thank you for making it all the way here. If you don't care for Taylor. If you don't care for the album and you're still listening, Bravo, brava to you. Oh can I just say I did a Berri's Oatly class on Monday. So many readers Katie's publicist finalists, including Lindsay Clayton, who fucking rocks. I have to say, I see you readers at Barry's. And if you are a reader at Barry's, oh, you actually are a Kyle. That's how k this is men or women.
If you are a reader, publicist, Katie finalist and you regularly go to Barry's, you're a Kyle.
You're a Kyle. It doesn't matter male, female, non binary, You're Kyle Kyle and as we know, the most famous Kyle. Wait, we actually have this conversation. This is a fun thing to ask you who is the most famous Kyle. I know you think Richards.
I didn't necessarily say that. What I'm asking you what you think who is the most famous Kyle x Y.
Period.
I can't argue with that one, but you think it's Richards. So there seems to be like a discussion who's more famous certain gig group chats.
I think a one that I'm in. Okay, Kyle Richards, Kyle McLaughlin and Kyle Chandler seem to be the three. Kyle McLachlan, you think Kyle McLaughlin is more famous, like in terms of people know that his name. Yes, then Kyle Richards, Yes, I think it's demographic. I think it's I think and it's very that guy famous, like, oh I know that guy.
He was in the original Dude, yell at me, Oh my, not yell at me. Do not raise your voice in the way that you just did ever again. You're you'll be going to the slammer fresh in.
The slammer first, zed see it is? You think they have Z Why are we so good? Okay? So you think Colmain? Okay, Queen, how do we how do we get into Kyle? If you were there and you will understand, we had all these bits planned and we did most of them. I was you never got your almond suit. I never got my almonds suit. I was gonna beat up someone in an almond costume at the Barris class because it was an oatly spot sort of that. But I was stupid, bitch. It wouldn't have worked. There was
not in a space people were on the floor. It would have been dangerous. I got a few jokes and I was like, oh wait, this is not It's hard to like do bits while there's a fitness class going on. Can I just say, hey, we actually have.
To move you from D twenty nine because Bowen needs that space because he's gonna do a bit where he fights.
Yeah, someone in an amendcost, but they were they were prepared to like go all out and like do whatever. I was like, no, I think people want to come for a class. So I like ran on the treadmill for like two minutes, and then I was so out of breath that like my brain was like, we're you're not performing right now. You're you're You're actually gonna like not do that. And then when I tried to everything that came out of my mouth made no sense. When Lindsay threw it over to me, like Bowen, what do
you think? I was like, how am I doing? Like it was? I was truly so not myself. I felt like Grimes at Coachelle. I was like, everything's going wrong. I'm bad Crimes Coachell. I felt like crimes that coach. Wow, So thank you for coming and thank you for being patient with me that it was a lot of fun.
I saw some people that I follow were in your class, and as someone said that immediately when the class started, you said, this first sprint is going to be at twenty, which I think is iconic.
I love it. But this one finalist, Kyle yeah sprinting at a fourteen. Jeez, I can't believe the most lives on his twelve. Most I've done his ten fourteen is but this guy also had redwood tree legs, tall, tall motherfucker and he was Taylor Swift or Travis Kelceer, Travis Kelsey. He was a full Kyle, full on and if you're a Kyle out there, keep running. Hey, Kyle, push it to fourteen. Let's go.
This is for the girlies who go to Berri's and instead of was in into the music and the instructure, they pop in Lost Coach. They want to hear torture, poets discourse. Okay, and when we start to hit a really good take, they pressed fourteen. Let's talk about twenty thirteen. We needed an episode like this. In person, I would say even to talk about this year, it's a big one.
This is one of the most major years. I think we're gonna end on music, because the music is major. I think let's start with film.
You know, in starting with film, what you're gonna find is that this was the year of Frozen. And can I let me just talk about this for a second.
Do you remember And this is again why this is a valid worthy segment because we relate it to our lives. Frozen came out and Papa Roulette did a Frozen sketch. What was the Frozen sketch?
It was literally like the Frozen sketch was Amanda was playing Anna and Tessa was playing Elsa. And Elsa was like, I have powers of snow.
Uh huh.
And Amanda was like, you're a lesbian. Oh, and I feel like it was ahead of its time. It was and it was very like she was, It's just very like with winds, I can create fractals. And it's like, I think that you're having a crisis and you're a lesbian and if you're a lesbian, you can just say that we can We're we're a good girl.
Yeah. She's like, no, I have to leave.
Town and create a new house some ice and snow. She's like, I feel like you are going through it huh like that was kind of the engine of the sketch. And I remember it played to silence, not because it wasn't funny because rhyme, but because no one knew Frozen yet, because people forget Frozen was one of the slowest burden.
It was a slow bird in history because it might as well have been a fucking rustic book report the way you were like trying to burn the pages at the stove at the fireplace. Slow. It was the Pirates of Caribbean. Uh huh, of that's a slow bird. That ride is a slow bird. That ride could take upwards if they're a half hour. Sometimes if the boats aren't going quick, you'll be sitting with the pirates for a really long time. Oh yeah, I hope you like Yoho Ho. Hope you like Yoho Ho and a woman chasing a
pirate around with a rolling pin. Yeah, I hope you like girl Boss energy because we're sitting on pirates and Frozen is the beginning of girl Boss. Where were you when you first heard the amazing song Let It Go? I was with you. I think I think we went to go see it together. We did.
I saw it with gay guys. I saw it with kids, and then I saw it with the general public on a plane.
And what was your favorite viewing experience? Well, the gay guys okay, a us huh, we saw it. I think like the first week it came out, can we people were not gagged. I left the theater being like that was okay. Yeah, Well, you're famously a tangled entangled girl through Yeah, I'm a frozen girl. You have else the hair period period.
I'm definitely also coated, which is tough for me as the Hona of our friendship.
I know I was gonna say, I feel like we've always been. You've been the Hona. I'm still the ana. Uh huh, guy, Say a rose any other thorn? A rose by any other bud? What is the name? A rose by any other name? I like as any other thorn. I mean, Frozen is ten things they hate about you the musical. Say that again. Frozen is ten things they hate about you the musical one more time. Frozen is Taming of the Shrew of the musical.
There you go, and that's real culture. Frozen one number forty. Frozen is the show of the music.
It's like, you can't date until your sister does, right, Yeah, you're dead ass. I'm dead ass.
I'll never forget how happy I was for Aunta when the gates finally opens.
Uh huh. When she sang finally they're opening up the gates, I said, is that the song it's called for? The finally they are? I'm so happy girl. I'm gonna shake my ass and sit on some visiting dick. That's what Anna said. Anna said, I'm so happy that I get to see some dick. We had kinds of dick coming into Erindale. Open up the goal, Open up the gates. Frozen became the second animated film after Toy Story three to gross one billion dollars and became the highest grossing
animated film at release. Congrats congrats to her. I think Frozen two beat that record. Later Frozen did suck, although I will say you'd had some bops. Still haven't seen, Still haven't seen. Top grossing film Frozen internationally, iron Man three, Domestic, Who Cares? Okay? Best Picture Oscar twelve years of Slave nine nominations. This was the beginning of Lupida. Yes. The Best Picture win made McQueen the first black British producer to ever received the award, and the first black British
director of a Best Picture winner. Okay, let's look at it, because Okay, there are these handy tables now on some of these that I think we should be bringing to the rest of the years that we do. Toy was a slave. I'm seeing a lot of American hustle. Gravity. I was with you. Did we see gravity together? I believe we did. I love gravity. I love gravity so much. I think at the ending all the time, I never want to see that movie again.
I don't think I could sit through it one more time. And it's so funny to me, Like sometimes I will catch people watching gravity on a plane. Why any movie about an air disaster on a plane? I just want to know what that person's like lifestyle is, Like what got them to this point where they are okay and can spiritually and physically maintain composure? When you're watching shit explode in the air and a woman carene through space?
Is it like when I'm eating my lunch and I'm watching YouTube of a recipe of another dish, I think, so okay, but it's not as dangerous. It's not as dangerous like when people watch that shit in the air. I'm like, what is going on. Maybe it comforts them because they're like, well, it can't be as bad as this. Of course, I'm gagged for this Keanu Reeves movie that he's making, which is why it's called The Entertainment System
Is Down. It's it's a fucking thriller on a plane, and like chaos ensues when the entertainment system on the plane goes down, no one can watch movies and everyone goes crazy. Wow, isn't that a great And that's like and it's like an actual grounded But I think it's action. I think it's like it's like a stake's on a plane thing. I love the title. It's called the Entertainment System Is Down. Oh I love Isn't that great?
That's really good because that would be use for serious concern I would jump into action.
Probably made by Boeing. Okay, this was so Dallas. This was the maconnaissance. This isis this was the one we were in the heart of the mconnaissance. I suppose it was Dallas Buyer's Club. It was True Detective, it was Interstellar. There was that period Lincoln Lawyer. Yeah, yeah, I think that's one. Yeah, us not lost coach talking about Lincoln. I know, know, and let's keep going blue jazzmine Okay, Lynchet.
This was the iconic moment of Jennifer Lawrence falling at the Oscars, a moment that was nominated at the Lost Culture Words.
Yes, Jennifer most shocking moment, the most shocking moment in his She went down, our girl down, but she got up and won. Not only does she get up, she got up and she won and she won. Honey, remember when One Direction was a band? I do, so does everyone in twenty thirteen, because guess what was the best selling album of twenty thirteen, Midnight Memory Midnight Memories by One Direction. Name one song from it.
So we danced on that to the best song ever? Oh wow, that's actually good. You could do that. Yeah, Lost Culture is this culture?
I definitely remember at least three other songs in One Direction, such as they want to Steal Maga remember that one and also even when the night changes.
This is the story of my life, This is love, story of my Little Black Dress is great. That Little Black Dress is like a fucking third night blind song. You think this way the fuck just just did in the room? Did it?
Did it? Oh?
This is actually a great name. What's the what is the that's one direction, there's one that's some I like, what is that? You're gonna have to do better than that? Uh?
You know you guys know listening in the car wherever you are, you know the one direction starts like this, brownounound bound bound pound girl.
You can come on, he was a kid. No, don't throw me off, girl, I don't want to say yeah, yeah, hold on and let me kiss you. There it is, I got it you guys. I just threw myself across the room. No, but you were I think you were mixing two different songs up kiss you and like I never thought it's so bad.
No, you literally gave me a hot at tag. I'm telling you no, Brown, let me here. I'm literally going to show you how right I am. And I think I'm even in key.
Darcy Cardon is livid right now that we don't know this. Kiss you one direct? No, I know, kiss you Okay, ready, I'm sorry, but did I slay? I just want to wait, come on, this is great somewhere Katie Gavin Fermuna is like I think Matt has perfect pitch. You're going to die a compliment that I'll never like. Of course, that you will never let go. Okay. This is also the year of her Best Screenplay Adapted and Original that can't be right. Oh no, it was the Best Original Screenplay winner.
Of course, I was like adapted, I loved her. I loved her. Of course, I'm the only faggot in America who thinks that. Excuse me, I just said, I know that's not an original thought. Best Original Song, Mandela Ordinary Love see like this is when?
Oh no.
At the Academy Awards.
The Record of the Year was to Get Lucky by Daft Punk, which I don't necessarily get. And then the Album of the Year was Random Access Memories. Oh this was the year that Taylor's Red was beat.
This was the year that Taylor's read because when they read and the grammy goes to like there was a split second re use. If you can see Taylor's face, She's like, she thinks she's gonna win.
They heard the r Yeah, they sure did, crushing And then it was Random Access Memories, which kind of came out of nowhere. Also, the song of the Year was Royal by Lord, and let's just say I love melodrama, but for me, pure Heroin by Lord is an important oh, of course it is.
That's Lore for me. That's that's Lord. It's Lord. It's Lord Lare, Lord Lor. Well, let's just say pure Heroin is that herold is Lord lor Pure Heroin is Lord Lare.
And I just remember being in my last semester of college mm hmm high all the time when worlds came out. Yes, oh I remember, yes, I was right there with you girl and just stomping the streets. It was like the last semester of college and I was in the West Village just like walking around, like listening to like four hundred Lucks. Huh. I love pure Heroin, Pure Heroin in that first Charlie XCX album True Romance, those were like
that was all I was listening to. I mean to say, nothing of art pop. We'll get so, we'll get to art pop. There was so I mean, this year, this is the babe, gave it okay, and then let's see what else. Best New Artist Malcolmore and Ryan Lewis. Other nominees included Casey Musgraves, Ed Sheeron, James Blake, and Kendrick Lamar. I don't think we got this one right. I don't know. We love Macklmore, though I don't know if.
We love Macklamore enough to comfortably sit here and be like, yeah, it's fine that he beat Kendrick Lamar and Casey Musgraves and even ed sheeron to be honest, even James Blake, I mean definitely James Blake. You know, I was at the Do Lab last year at Coachella when James Blake did drop and said, the what lab. It's called the do Lab. It's where you go to see surprise drop ins. That's at Coachella.
And I was there and in lab they should and you know, Jamila was there vibing how she dole. We love you girl. Let's talk about art pop. Where were you? I was in the airport in Beijing. You were, Yeah, that's very art populo. We were visiting China and on the way back in November, it had dropped. Our pop came into our lives and we're in time on another album later. But that was you know me, I was still caping for Gaga at her lowest moment, when everyone else had left her behind.
Her lowest moment was when she could barely get the plane that she became off the ground. It was Lani technically Atlantis. Technically there was a higher moment than usual because she was inches off the ground, but it was a low point. She got into a full space suit, did a press conference in her spacesuit while her helmet was in one arm, saying I'm so excited to be the first flying woman.
Yeah, she did not say that, but she said, I this is history. This is the first flying dress.
Yes you missed that. Raw, Lady Goga rules. And I believe this is also the era where she got vomited on.
Well, that was twenty fourteen at south By, so that was after the album came out, so that doesn't technically fall under this. See that was twenty fourteen at south By. I'm telling you I know this era like the back of my hand.
This was a really I remember when everyone was like, oh, I don't know, Lady Goga lost it. I'm like, what are you talking about. I'm the rich bitch, I'm the upper class. Come on, give some respect, Like, don't react quickly to this shit. Let things marinate.
This is what I'm saying, because in twelve years you're gonna be gagged by donal Tella. I think you know what's cool, Try and think about like, however, you can have metacognition, think about like the way you're thinking about things and be like, let me think ahead, girl, let me let me extrapolate a little bit. Strap ar pop. Where were you talk about your experience with her? I was on the subway. Okay, this was subway gig, like this was I remember you were subway gigging back then a lot, and I.
Remember like this album took over. I think this actually was one of the first albums I had like fully downloaded on Spotify. I remember at this time, like I finally got Spotify and was like paying for like the version where you could like download songs and stuff, and I'm making my little play and I think it was one of the first albums I downloaded on Spotify.
But g u I Sex Dreams, I'll sell it again, dope, dope, any more than our engineer freaking out having a heart attack, like truly panicked. Do what you want, now, what you want. It's so annoying the legacy of that song because it is such a hit. There is always the Christina version. Yeah, there is always that version. The version now, the version now I will stay at the as Gaga fucking tour and R Kelly was there as the President. It's a
tough one. Gaga played President Kelly's secretary, President Kelly's secrecretary at the AMS where like she's at her desk President Kelly's office the White House. Yes, yes, I'll let him know. Then she gets a call hello, mister President, I want you and my desk in two minutes or whatever it was,
and then she does this whole thing. I'm like, yes, sir, and then she starts to like primp and primp and prim and I remember this, and then she was black and white, right, No, she was in a gold dress, and then she goes into the Oval Office and does a whole dance and then the Oval office that melts away and she like goes and climbs the top a piano and starts screaming. And then it ended in a ballad, right, and then it was a ballad version of do what
you Want. And then it was just news. It was headlines. It was very reputation, pre reputation. It was newspaper articles that said every headline was Lady Gaga is fast. Let these women be nuts. I'm telling you because then you get this, you love it, lady puts you will love it. No, I mean, lady guy. She was going through a very hard time. And I don't mean to laugh, but it is like it is that song is so unfortunate, like it is honist because of the r Kelly thing, Like
the album is really tough for Gaga. I think she really doesn't remember it. I think we should believe her when she says she doesn't remember our pop. I don't remember our people. She will. I don't think she will perform. It will be decades before she performs a song from that album live. Did she not do applause? Do any art? Pop ecrematicaball? Wow? Yeah, I guess she didn't. She really doesn't like that time in her life. I don't think whoa, I don't. I don't mean to make light of that.
I don't mean to laugh at that, but I mean for me, as a little monster, as a fan, I do go like I stuck with her in that time and I have not earned my stripes or anything, but like that just means to me, like I love this woman till the day I die. There's no question she is our favorite celebrity. Lady Gaga is fat like all across and like because I mean it was a crazy time and like she'd put on a little weight and everyone like melted down. That was still the end.
I don't know, well, this tabloid ra is still ongoing. I mean blah blah blah. But like it was the last time that like people could really they get away with saying ship like that.
Yeah, that was that was.
That was like a moment where it was probably what was being said about her in papers more reputable than we remember.
Yesh, it was like so killing crazy making your daily mails and should still say that kind of thing? Okay?
And then Venus we have to just say, Venus, ve shout out. We all remember where we were, have respect. Venus know that we've performed that live many times.
Yes, I think a companion piece to our pop is Prison by Katy Perry.
I love Prison by Katy Perry. And anyone who thinks the second half of Prism doesn't go all the way off is not listening. Use your fucking ears and listen to the second half of Prism. Now, adult contemporary was heard on this album and the bops were bopping.
Did you have a radio station in Long Island that whereas Yes, called cozy in Colorado was called cozy one on one. For us, it was called like Star, but it was like Star ninety nine point nine. It was like adult contemper Yes, and okay, so maybe you had this woman, iconic Delilah. Of course we had Delilah, Delilah, Delahilah. Wait a minute, I need to write this down. I need to go home, smoke a fat joint and listen to old Delilah clips. It's just her be It's literally like, Hi,
how are you. I'm okay, Delilah. My husband has been at war for six years. That's so hard. It must be very lonely. It really is, Delilah, And I just want to know that things will get better. They will. I have a good song for you. It's like I'm a already there. Look around.
It's like giving a loan, literally, like maybe this is like a show we should do, yes, just like comforting radio DJs who are.
Fucked up and the post apocalypse, Like the world is done, and yet these two people are still like I'm so sorry. Delilah was a legend period. I hope she's well, I hope she what's going on tonight? Huh, she's on TikTok. Oh my god, what answered people's question. She's still on the radio. Hum Old already there today you can look around. I said, you better eat, talk more about prism.
One of the greatest songs of all times. Birthday, Oh my god, yes, actual birthday.
Yes this year. Yes, that's so good. You precious soul. You went you seasonalized? You really do. I mean your birthday should be a holiday, and like you should have a song at the reading, and there should be a playlist and Birthday by Katy Perry should be on it absolutely booming you with me.
Wait, I now know I don't think so honey, up has to do with prism? Okay, oh give you Itay, I'm so happy. You know what that feeling when you find out you're I don't think so honey and you're like so happy.
Make it like you bedday every day.
Also, you know what time, I didn't like it first, but then I ended up being like, oh, I guess I do like it because I kind of have to dark Horse.
I still am not so hot on dark dark Horse all these years later. What else was good? This is how we do. Yeah, this is hell we do. Never forget. I don't it's a weird album, so cuckoo, it's a cuckoo album and the tough live performances of that. But I do love unconditionally. I have a lot and this has to do with don't get to a from there because I have a lot to say about it. And then the big one Beyonce by Beyonce started it all,
started it all. I actually don't think I have no this is this is not true, but like it's up there for me with albums of Laura in my life where I'm like that change shit like that was a like a marked change in like the way I felt number one her music, like everything. I was just like so blown away by what the fucks she did?
Every song I fucking love, like I guess for me, if I had to say a standout, it's still Jealous, Jealous.
I listened to Jealous every day all day, like it was really I'm sorry. I hear my sister say I listened to Jealous every day all day.
I go, I don't if that's true. It's not true, but at the time I listened to it a lot. I see I see remember iTunes for you have like your top twenty five play.
Song and you'd see the count. Ooh, that's tough.
No.
The thousands of times I listened to Jealous, it was like far and away my number one an album I listened to constantly, Like but that one song, I don't think I ever just got through it once.
I would always have to replay it. What is it about that song? I think that's the kind of music I hope to make. Want is like I think you have made bite full like emotional pop. The production on that is so good, just like that's every Christmas Eve. Coded Oh my god, that's so kind of you, it's every Christmas Eve. I feel as though you're not wrong. No, I'm not. I know I'm not. I wouldn't say it.
I would also say, just like Beyonce, occupying that lyrical space of like, how fucking dare you?
Like? How much I like cook this for naked, this meal for you, naked? Where the hell you at? Uh huh? I wish that you were me so you could feel this feeling. I never broke one promise, and I know when you're not honest. Now you got me yelling that's because I'm jealous.
When she said I'm coming for you, but also I'm backing off like that is tough to pull off on a song, just like, yeah, you think it's gonna be one thing, because it is one thing, and then the reveal of the underlying emotion you.
Know what song also does this? What be careful Cardi B. It's like, don't do this because why I do this is vulnerable. Don't do this vulnerable. I'm getting a shirt we're making merch that says, don't do this. I'm vulnerable this album. I remember exactly where I was. Obviously, there was a midnight drop. You and I were on Facebook Messenger.
I literally remember for some reason going the iTunes being like I wonder and seeing the word beyond saying I was like huh. And I texted you and I said, You're not gonna believe this. I remember the message you said. I was like, oh my god, I can't fucking believe this. And then you said the words no, I feel sick.
I feel sick. I was sick.
Yeah, I was unwell, and I remember I didn't sleep that night. I had to go into work the next day and none of the other waitresses had slept either.
It was like, what is going on? That was a musical monoculture moment. I mean, I just remember watching the video for Yance, the video for Partition, the video for Blow for Rocket, for all of the I was just like everyone. I was just like I am a new being, Like I am immediately re arranged because of this album, Like I know what to aspire to now, like sexually, I know what to aspire to now, like confidence way, like yeah, that is like role model aspirational down flow us.
Oh my god, forget it, like never.
By the way, this was also the year of the red flannel tucked into jean's shorts. And if you weren't doing it button to the top tucked into gene shorts, you weren't a pop girlly of the time or a gay guy trying to give that.
But it's okay because we teach girls to shrink themselves, to make themselves smaller. Period. There's more, but ask Chimamanda about that now. The following songs were number one hits on the Billboard. Howe anything else to say about Beyonce.
I mean, so much more to say, but like it is what it is. I mean, like it's the defining album. The fact that that's an album of the year, loss is comical. It's ridiculous. It should have been her first album, win Album of the Year Win.
Blurred Lines was twelve weeks at number one Royals nine weeks, very impressive, and I did not put the rest of the weeks. I think that's truly okay out of heaven Up. We didn't talk about untorthodox cheekbox Sobers on tour for that album. He was phenomenal. Yeah, thrift Shop, Harlem Shake, just give me a reason. Pink representation very much so can't hold us more? Malcolmore roar, bless you, bless you, bless you, bless you. Leave that in. I want them to know how much I sneeze. I want them to
know what I go through. I'm crying. Leave that in. Do not take it out. No one's pushing back. I know the truth. Uh. And Wrecking Ball, Wrecking Ball, fucking Rocks TV.
I think at this time I'm just gonna say was boring because the same ship was still dominating. So blah blah blah, Breaking Bad, Modern Family. These were all incredible shows, but we've just talked about them in other episodes.
Notable deaths, Oh God, Paul Walker, there's that lou Reed, Roger Ebert. That was that was tough too. No, Nelson, Mandela, James Gndel Feeni, Oh God, we miss you, we miss you, We kiss you. Politically, here's what happened. But Rock Obama sworn in for his second term. They say that art pop was an Obama era creation. Do you agree?
Yes, I think that artists felt the most free Obama God, the Tea Party shut down the government.
Huh yeah, they really did that. Obamacare flopped. Snowden's NSA leaks not great, huh No. Sort of living in a time.
That was where you know that it's started to unravel, you know, yeah, that's unravel.
The last and most important thing that happened in the year twenty thirteen was Bowen and I sat down at Wapiano and I had Bowen joining our sketch group Poproulette, thus changing the course of history.
Really because you were going to move back today. I was going to move back to dinner with my parents. I Oh, my sister period saved me. And this is I said, come to Vapiano, we have to have a conversation. And we hadn't really like hung out in a while. No, this was pre Best era, pre bestI era. It was still like, oh Matt. Yeah, it was just like good friend, Oh Matt, I would love to.
I hope I see Matt soon. Yeah, And I was like, girl, it's time to get lunch. And then we sat down and got lunch and.
Little did you know that there was a destiny was there was a poprolette proposal. I said, the group has talked and they've decided they want you a girl. They want you to be a part of the group. And do you know why we asked Food to be a part of the group because I left reality show or something. No, this was why do you remember when you got on that music app and sang set fire to your manner to the to the tune of does that still exist?
Explain what that was? This was an app that pre TikTok like TikTok was a merger between two apps, right, both were like Chinese apps, or one of them was Chinese and like but the other one this is not that app, but it was. There was like a a genre of app where you could sing karaoke songs and record yourself singing. Huh. It was not musically but it was like whatever it was, it was called something else before musically I think it wasn't that. It wasn't it's it's the right thread.
You're spiritually right, No, no, no, but spiritual like the Katie Perry Prism song.
Okay, well musically was what TikTok was? Right? Yeah, But you could like film yourself, like you could record yourself and film yourself singing karaoke songs. And I did a series where I would pitch up my voice and I played this character or as myself. I was like hey, I was like, hey, it's Boen and like I'm here to sing my cover of like of this is this, and like sometimes I would for some reason set fire to your manner was me being like so stupid A rich guy broke up with me, and I went to
go burn his house down. But it was a whole manner. It was a manner. Where did I get manner from? Oh no, it's because you're very creative.
And it was that creativity and performance capability that earned the yas of pop Roulette. And I said, let me sit down with him because I know him the best, and we'll get him to join the sketch group. Because I heard this nasty rumor that you were going to leave town. And flee and go back to something like Denver, Colorado, like you were Renee Rap or.
Something like it was Renee Rap. She has this a whole song about it. How was your twenty thirteen? Personally? My god?
Like so working in a restaurant pilled like I would work. I was working at Ulysses in the financial district, just like waiting on everyone who ran our banks and was so drunk during the day. Like they would come and they would get wasted, and then they would return to running our banks. I will never forget how I saw some of those men speak to the girls that I worked with. I made fine money there, I mean like
it was. I remember thinking at the time, like I have to keep this job because I won't make money elsewhere. Like can I say to all servers out there, if you are at a restaurant that you don't like working at, there's a million other ones.
I don't do. Not live day to day in a situation.
You shouldn't be in a situation for even ten minutes where you're not happy. The word, in the words of Kim katral I was.
Making a bit. I don't know about there being a million restaurants. There are a million.
I just I remember I stayed like it's a nice place like whatever, but like I remember management change. Again, this was like over ten years ago now, so like it's like everyone's different, but like that thing happened where I was like, you had like a good fun job and then management change and like things changed, and you know, we started like to do other things. And I was just like it was really wearing on me how disgusting the guys were that would come in.
Yeah, and of course I left because it was just getting so like corporatety all around me, and I was just like this is gross and I wasn't making good enough money and just like the financial district is not where the cream of the crop is. Well, fight I return, you think fight, I I don't just like fight, you know what I mean.
Like I used to go there and I liked it, Like I loved, you know, the cobblestone streets, and I liked a lot of the restaurants down there, Like by the way, there's I don't know if it's still there, but there was a pizza place called Adrian's next door that was like so slay, and like I did have a lot of good memories working now, like you would come visit me.
I worked with a lot of really cool girls there.
I recently went back and some people were still working there, which was like so great to see them. And you know, but I remember I would work Monday nights from seven pm to four am. Oh yes, and there would be no one there, but we pulled the tips, so I'd make all this like hourly money from working from seven to four am on.
A Monday night. Yeah, yeah, till literally four I can't believe. Yeah, there were Oh but this was Brooklyn Crab days. Never mind, I'm getting it. I'm getting ahead of myself. The Brooklyn Crab days comes soon after. But the Brooklyn Crab days, and we've talked about on this pod before, but there were a couple of nights where you would be over served at Brooklyn Crab at your job because you'd stick around after work and you would call me drunk and be like, boh and get me an uber now because
I didn't have uber uber on my phone. I don't know why. I think it was just I don't know, And I would do it for you, and that's how much I love you. That was back in the day.
Would go on, well, you wouldn't, but Sudi would make my PDFs, and you would call my ubers study would make your PDFs because you were convinced that you cannot make them on your computer, on your Mac computer because there was a virus.
Because there was a virus. I was convinced. I was convinced that. I don't know. I still think this day, I think something was going on there. I just mean, I hope one day that we all go to Fight I again for a fun party like China Chalet was kind of a nice moment, did you No, I don't think I ever.
Want we could go down to Fight Eye and have a party whenever we want. It's just like the type of character you might run into down there is like it's always usually tough. I'm gonna call it very mask Bridge and Tunnel, I'm telling you. Like these guys from like the banks would come in when they're like khaki pants with their big old butts, and they would like be so nasty.
And just like talk. I just I saw so many of my colleagues be called like the C word. Oh God, like our friend I won't say who who I got a job there had this horrible experience where she told the customer that we didn't sell cigarettes because he was wasted. Came up, like you always sell cigarettes, and she's like, we don't have cigarettes. They have it at the gazebo around the corner, and he called her the sea word in such a vicious, violent way that I was just like.
It wasn't long after that that I left. I was like, I don't even want to be fucking around this. Yeah, I like it's so gross.
And those guys feel so entitled because they make the money that they make, and like, you know, like it's just I don't know. I hate these guys living in the fucking high life down there and treating people like that.
I help all of them suffer. Suffer well. Time froun't think so honey, time think so honey. This is I don't think, sony. This is where we take one minute to go off on something in culture. Let's see, Oh I do have something. I have something, and let's go with you, all right, let's go with me. And we both previewed her. I don't think so Honey's yeah, this is Matt Rogers. I don't think so many time starts now, I.
Don't think so honey. Anyone taking an issue with the pronunciation in the song Unconditionally by Katie Perry to stop with your unconditionally. First of all, it is a gorgeous song. It is a gorgeous ballad for me, and I feel like a lot of people can't get over the pronunciation.
Get over it.
She had to say it like that so it would work in meter. Okay, what would you rather not have the song? It's one of the greatest songs in the twenty first century. No, no, who could forget her? Performances of the song live all problematic, all problematic in nature. I swear to God I heard her say, with an Asian accent, the word unconditionally.
No, I'm kidding. She never did that.
She only ever did everything about board Katy Perry fifteen seconds. She's one of the great artists of our time. Unconditionally is a ballad that I will have playing at my wedding on repeat. Don't worry every when I'm not getting married. No, I'll probably get married. I don't think i'll have kids though, But when I do get married, just know I will love them unconditionally.
And that's one minute. She should have done it like this. Go ahead and show us uncondition. No, you look at there is nothing wrong with unconditionally uncondition. No. I know it sounds bad. It is bad, but that's how it's how the word's condition. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that. And guess what if there is something a little bit fucked up about it, that's what makes it memorable and pop. That's what makes Katy Perry pop in the top ten of the Iconic four hundred.
I we did not agree on that, but I guess it's I guess it's etched in stone. Top she might be top.
Tenazy the Iconic four hundred is coming number four hundred, No, we can't say. I don't think we've said who four hundred is yet. Yeah, I don't think we've said it. No, the name that we're gonna say is social number four hundred is so shocking and it will set the tone for an amazing list. Yes, okay, all right, this upcoming is and I think I see him formulating an idea right now, sort of. Okay, this is Bowen Yang's I don't think Zhanni, are you ready? Yes, his time starts now. I don't think so.
Money posting lyrics on a story, posting lyrics to be like it's it is lacking an extremely important component, which is the music, which is the production. If it's hip hop, you need you need the track underneath it for it to make sense. I don't think we should encourage this. I don't want to participate in it personally. If you're doing it, no problem, But it's always tough a second either way you slice it. If you're doing it to be like, look at how genius this is, it's always
tough to be like, oh yeah, I guess. So if you're doing it to be able to look how stupid it is, it's like, well you're that's that's not fair. So I think until we find a way to like package a song snippet that we like in a way that is digestible to a social media feed, then great. I also don't care about what seems digestible to social media feed. Let's all lean off. I'm gonna be the first person to say social media is bad. That's one minute. That's one minute.
First of all, do you know how stupid like any Beatles song would look if you just posted the lyrics like and put them out there and like you laugh them out? She loves you yeah, yeah, yeah, you wouldn't. You'd be like, lol, these are the greatest pop songwriters of all time. Actually, yes that was true. Yes, I just think it's so stupid too to be like, oh, let me like screen grab these lyrics just so I can say, like what, how bad this artist is on the whole, or like how overrated she is. It's just
like there's someone cool, like shut the fuck up. I don't know, like I don't have like an intelligent thought about this. And it's like, okay, yeah, gotcha. Those words put together like look stupid, isolated and like you said, without context, like cool, it's a song.
It's a song. I've just seen.
I've seen like a lot of like people who just are hell bent on every single time Taylor Swift does anything like finding a way to sort of prove that all this success and impact she has is like a fluke or like that it's unearned or something. And it's like they just bend over backwards to try to make
that point, and it's always so sweaty. It's like, okay, so did you, like you you didn't just casually find this, You went out of your way in this quote unquote dense densely lyrical thing to find these embarrassing quote unquote cringe lyrics and post them and like to prove what point that you are better than everyone?
Okay, they might be, they might be, they might be. Well, this has been an amazing episode of Lost Culture.
Tortured, Tortured Podcast Department. But don't we say title of app?
Title of that was? There was one?
Well, I guess now we have to make a tactical decision. Do we call it the Tortured Podcast Department and get million streams? Or do we call it something else? No, we had we had something else, but well, the numbers are down. We'll listen back to it. Oh no, stop, we're not doing.
Numbers are down for Last Culture. We're not doing this. We just want a webbing. Yeah, let's hopefully the webby ticks us up. But yeah, we saw something. If you didn't tune in last week, we saw that. We felt that. Oh stop, I'm not looking at the numbers you are. I'm a metrics queen, I know, and I am glad. All I know is our most polarizing episode ever. It was a huge hit, So maybe we should start fucking
burning it down. Okay, come in here, no fucks to give, no life to live, no fucks to give, no life to live. What was our most successful episode? Oh oh oh, Our.
Most successful episode of all time is Great Americans with Tina. But what one episode that like crushed was One and a Half Fuck, which Sunshine review and Recap, which had the girls sure twisting, turning, tossing, yeah, yeah, yeah, and totally.
I mean. All I'll say is I continue to stand by what I've said. One of my favorite albums of the year.
I love every word, love the artists, love and love and love all the girls out there who have something to say.
You are and so you I'd have to say, is all you Sarah's and Hannah's you like? But Daddy I love him.
If you want to know how I feel about y'all and the way you feel about One and a half Fuck episode, just listen and go go stream.
But Daddy, I love him. We end every episode with a song I having say, No, I'm not, but you should see your faces. Everyone stopped. Go stream. Torture Poet Spot