"The Spice of Sisterhood" (w/ Clark Moore)

supersonic racer. I wanted to be here for our guests because this is a Capital G guest, but I do want to update everyone that it went really well, and all my doctors and everything, we're super happy about how it went. And thank you everyone that reached out and was so sweet and was so nice, and you guys really kept me going. And also what kept me going was that someone made that filter, that Lost Culture to filter. My god, that was so fun. But um it did.

It did go great. And right now I've just got a full on splint on my nose. So if I sound a little nasals just because I'm working with an extra gear today, but you know, we're soldiering on some extra gear. Thank you so much to Katie Ka Nats for making that filter. I love it. She made a choice to keep it. Obviously, she can't do all two hundred that would be insane. It's top top fifty, and so you're not going to get a bad You're not gonna get a bad results, no flops because we're working

on the top quartile there, you know. Yeah, so that kind of that kind of kept me. I would say a few things kind of kept me going since this happened. Fearless Taylor's versions, well, oh my god, four Fearless Taylor's version, which I know you've been gagging. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it. I love it. Bohen Yang as the Iceberg on SNL. Oh my god, and my mother is here.

Run over there she's she's like, you have to bring on the can, you have to bring on the micro one second for a second, because actually there is some news, which is I got her to be a big Drag Race fan. Oh you guys, mainlined all of season is coming in. This is her podcast debut. So mom, say who you like on Drag Race Season into the mic Rose and got Mack. So can you believe that she's been saying that since the beginning, So she she knew

top three? Yeah, the top three, top three. I mean Candy, We love candy, but Candy is maybe like the controversial wild card pick. Would you agree, mom, Yeah, that would be definitely controversial. You know, a little drag, a little drag. Well. I even said when I was on Twitter, back on Twitter for like three days, I said I love this top four and then people were getting in my replies being like, uh, Candi doesn't deserve to be I was like, all right, everybody calm down. So we're over here saying

that we love. We are handy news fans were handy news fans, but Katrina is not. No, no, she likes and you like, oh I love Lallerie and well, yeah, Lolleri. You know what my mom was loving about Lallerie The looks until the until the till the bags, of course, but the looks were otherwise great. Katrina Olivia, Yeah, Olivia was the one that was really beautiful. Um yeah, but had she had some stunning outfits on the ones that she brought with her. Yeah that that they were really cute.

She just couldn't get that bag. Look she does? Does does it? Cut it, motion it? He takes it a little easy today. I'll work make sure he takes it very easy, of course. Katrina with the oh, thank you, thank you, Katrina, thank you and that's Clark. That's Clark. We're gonna bring him in later. I have to be quiet, but high. This is you can I love mom? Hime mom? This is the first cameo from a this is this

is already a huge episode. Um, Katrina is such a saint for for for taking care of you and and we're not even gonna put her on the spot and make her say to catch phrase. We all know what the catchphrase is. No damn bird? Can you shout out from the kitchen? Mom? Da bird? What? Now she's yelling at me because I'm talking too loud. Okay, So this is the you have to understand. This has been the vibe in the in the house. It's not in the apartment.

Yeah that please, Okay, your cameos over now. Oh alright, see a small taste of the spotlight. And this is how they get these young girl How do they get these young girls? Well? How you doing? Girl? Before we bring in the guests, I want to take a aperture check on on the girl. I won't keep you very long in this in this you know, pre pre show space, pre inter space. I'm doing okay, I just I'm so embarrassed.

We're having to start a little late because um, still I'm still just a little still, just a little too busy for my taste, which I know is part of getting tired culture, I know. But busy with your your many jobs. No, no, I'm just I'm just you know, I I did not plan this um in the way that I should have, and so it's sort of on me. You are going to we're going to have a RESTful summer. Yes that's true, I hope so. Well, here's someone who gave me um a true breath of fresh air and

array of light over last summer. Is our guest. Yes, I mean, this is this is a bomb. Indeed, Well it's funny you should say that it is because um he was a wonderful podcast called Soul Bomb. We've both had the privilege of being guests. It was a privilege. It was a privilege. I mean, and he he wants, he wants to go for this vibe. It's it's very much a super soul Sunday vibe for us. But of course we're never going to be big enough to go to Oprah. No, no, no, it was I felt like

I was miss Markle. I felt like without without you know, digging up the for for anything and without drudging up any controversy. But yeah, I felt like I was Megan Markle if I didn't have as much conflict as her. You know what I mean, like sort of a low conflict. Megan Markle is how I felt when I went on the podcast. You know, if you were Megan Markle, but you googled your damn boyfriend. Yeah. Hello, By the way,

I don't think so. I don't I think that she googled Prince Harry before she married Prince Okay, the girl googled. I think our guest, um, it's through fantastic. You've seen him in love Simon, his girlfriend. Even I watched his um human rights campaign speech when I was trying to write mine, and mind came out a clunker. But his is perfect in every way, baby, just like just like him. Everyone, please welcome into your ears. Clark. Yeah, I'm gonna cry,

it's too early. That was the nicest intro I've ever gotten. It is such an honor to be here. Don't be crying now now, Clark, how how are you right now? Vibe wise? Because I think this is perfect. This is a perfect sort of meeting of our guest with the vibe on loss culture right now, which is a little bit more sdate. It's a little bit slower, it's a little bit more soothing, I think because Matt is having to sort of keep a low cap, a low lid

on the the vocal energy, which is really trademark. Matt is literally healing, and my show is all about healing, about emotional healing. Yeah, I'm happy to I'm happy to bring the good vibes here. I had to be there, you know. You know. The thing is, though, when I see you, I smiled too big, And when I smile too big, my stitch is rip open. Then I have to go get another procedure. No, he's I'm kidding. Okay, good, Yeah,

I mean to answer your question, I'm fine. I'm you know, ups and downs, but generally, I think I'm in a similar vibe to what Matt has been saying on the Pot the past couple of episodes about sort of getting into a stasis and then trying not to go too high or too low and just kind of being in that placid state day to day, which is nice. Yeah. Has it been like a sustained static thing for the whole pandemic? Are we talking about a more recent local

stretch of time. I think, well, I mean, I think there were times in the early part where I allowed myself to get taken on rides every single day, you know, and like you open your I mean obviously right now, Um, I've only read his name. I've not said his name out loud, so I can't think of it Dante, right, thank you. Also, by the way, I brought people with me, because our man has an entourage. I brought the full entourage. I brought my producer Simone. I brought my intern sally uh.

I actually I didn't bring them. They both said we are coming because we love this show so much. And I said, am I I will not get between you two and Boone and Matt I won't do it. So

they're here. Um. But yeah, So like I I think in the earlier part, I would have um allowed myself to go on a journey, an emotional journey of like yet another unarmed black man being killed by the police who can't seem to figure out if it's a taser or a gun that their whole you know, maybe they shouldn't be a police, Maybe they shouldn't be a police officer. They can't tell the difference interesting like base level, you know.

And and also it's so funny you would say that bowing about like I mean, it's so funny for us to be talking about this now. Because on your episode of Soul Bomb we talked about Elijah McLaine. There was listening to this talk between John Early and Dr Catherine Lee who at you see, Senacruis, this is so random, But she said she said this thing where she was like, you know, we're not going to get rid of like

racial biases in our lifetime. So what the thing that we all have to focus on now is like the fact that there are racists who can hurt you and there are racists who can't. And it's like she was talking about how she was like she's in an interracial marriage and she was in like Europe somewhere at a bus stop, and then this this like woman was sneering at them, clear taking issue with the fact that they were um interracial, and then the husband got a Doctor

Lu's husband got a little stressed out. But then Dr Luke just goes, what am I gonna do, like tell this woman off and I'm never going to see again. I mean, of course, it's like a crazy that's like a really tense, maybe dangerous situation in the moment, but it's like, just save the exertion, the emotional labor, let's say, anything that has to do with like stirring you into action. Save that for the forces and the institutions and the

structures whatever that have the potential to harm people. Like that's what it is I've got. That's that's kind of helped me with a lot of what like as a way of looking at a lot of stuff like this. I'm sorry I went on this huge tangent. No, that's that's exactly the space that I'm living in. Because we actually just to bring it back around. I promise I won't plug the pod every single time. The girl should

be listening to it. I will say. The most recent episode that we put out, I think last week, was with this UM psychologist named Dr Mario Bouquet, and she is a specialist in intergenerational trauma and UM sort of like mindfulness. She's a little bit in that holistic woo woo space, paired with the credentials of a doctorate in psychology from Columbia. Okay, that's what makes it not so woo because we love it. Okay, yeah, sources, we have citations, um.

But she talked about how we, you know, we've normalized so many of these things, whether it's even just you know, putting a mask on her face, um, but the body doesn't process it that way. The body is still processing all of these little things that we've come to normalize about the pandemic, about racial trauma, about whatever, um, in a fight or flight way because it's the only way

that we're programmed to respond to these things. And so just because up here or like in our outward facing world, we think we're okay if we're not actively doing something. And that can be a sound bath. It can be watching a television show, it can be reading, you know, it can be talking to your sister, like, but it has to be a conscious choice where you sit down and you say, this is the medicine that I'm taking to heal myself from whatever experience you had that day.

And if you aren't doing that, then it's storing in your body and it will come out in other ways. I feel like you you two are like you so carry the light, like if you know that expression, like you really do, like you just have this like energy about you, which is just you do make people feel better, like something that I think everyone would want to say about themselves. I can say about you, which is like after you haven't experienced with you, you feel better than

you did before, and so like that. But I feel that that's true. And so I don't know about you. But for me, like if I'm ever feeling useful or like productive in the world, it has to be really connected to my joy so like and I kind of get that vibe from you as well, that like, do you feel like you're more productive creative, like useful when you are feeling joyful, or do you do you like sort of create from strife? I would say it has to be purpose driven for me, Like I am we

are Pisces, right, sister, So Scorpio king. A lot of water here, a lot of water dripping, what drip? But I so I'm in the It's almost like um to stay in this woo space. My my rising is Gemini. So my front facing is very social and very light and very you know, like social butterfly. I bounce around, I make people feel good. But in my sort of like behind the scenes, I'm diving into the depths of the darkness, and I sort of think of it as like I'm doing that so you don't have to. You know,

I have built up a tolerance for it. I've I know how to navigate there, and I know how to turn that into something productive or creative for myself. Um, And then I can sort of be I mean, of course, I live for the Oprah comparison. It's it's the aspiration of my entire life. I can sort of be the guide through the darkness and we can walk through it together. Um. But my my whole thesis statement for for life is

wanting to make people feel better. And this thing that my dad used to say, Um, the director of the performing arts camp that I used to go to that like made me fall in love with performance. Um. They both used to say, and and still say, always leave

places and people better than you found them. And that means, you know, cleaning up the table after you leave at the food court in the mall that was the you know, that was where my dad these filth queens, the leaving the food courts like a zoo and you're walking on the street, you know, you see some trash on the sidewalk,

like you pick it up and throw it away. It's you know, little things like I feel crazy when I do that, but I do do that like now now even in l A where it's just like a truly lost cause in terms like I'll be like, oh this like like it's a public park. But I think it helps. But I mean, it's so funny that you say that, because even even as soon as we brought you in your you pointed out the fact that Matt is healing. It just means that you are attuned to that idea.

Can I have such a frivolous question, but what's your moon? What's your moon sign? I'm double Pisces girl, that's same, I'm Pisces rising cancer moon. So he's he's triple, he's triple water placement. It's to cry at any beautiful I love.

I love it out him. Um Clark. I just think that you probably provided me with like a real sense of groundedness over the summer with that interview, because I was like, you really, you really like had me talking in a way that I would never I would never open up to most people that not even my therapist. I was like, Okay, he's got me, he's got me, and I will tell the readers what it is. What is it? What? No, I'm tell tell the readers what

the interview was. The interview was on soul Bomb. It was just we were just talking about if I remember correct, I brought up conversion therapy. I brought up forgiveness. I brought up like all all these things. You probably don't know this unless you've listened to the pod recently, but we've there's a really no I know I have recently. Okay, I'm truly honored that. I'm my SoundBite is int there. Oh good, I'm glad you feel that way. I I I'm like, God, you know he got that out of me,

that Clark. I mean, I was shook by it because I you know, we we really also speaking to the you know, the podcast has been healing for me. But it's also a lot of work, as as we all know, putting out an hour of content a week is a lot. And it's not nothing, and it's more that it's like, it's more that it's constant and the way that we run our show. Um, because my producer, Simone is like a proper late night producer. Thank god, we don't do

pre interviews that would be too much. But we do extensive research beforehand, and then we also do a heavy edit because I want to give space to um, you know, to sort of sit in silence even or you know, not to feel like you have to speak. And so a lot of times the interviews will be really slow and then we'll come back in and we'll just sort

of like the same thing with Matt's interview. I told you there was a section at the end where I was like, for whatever reason, I was like going for I just kept going back to the same point, and I was like, I feel like we got it, and so then we pulled out a whole five minute chunk where I was just asking the same question over and

over and over. Anyway, all this to say that it's a lot of work, and it's a lot of emotional labor as well, um, because I'm really sitting in that space with the guest, which is nice and it can be healing. But specifically, Bowen your your interview. I just found it. So I said this to you. Then I'll say it again, generous the way that you think back on specifically conversion therapy and the relationship that you have

with your parents. And I was asking you about forgiveness, your practice of forgiveness, Um, because I want to develop one, and because I have a lot of resentments. She can hold a grudge. You know, I'm going to hold a grudge on this towing truck that has decided to know you don't that. Okay, there's a Subaru on the back of the truck and for whatever reason, it's right outside

my window. But what you said was, it's yeah, forgiveness is a practice, and it seems like it's going to be impossible, and then you do it, and then you're like, oh, I did it, and then you just keep doing it. The whole point of forgiveness is that you cut your your your brain is telling you you have no reason to do that. You have no reason to forgive, to forgive someone, um, not to get like biblical even, but like yeah, that's just that's kind of the whole not

virtue of it. It's just like it's it's it's it's irrational, Like forgiveness is irrational. I want to ask you, but to be where you're saying, like it is emotional labor. What are you doing to release that? Like what are you doing? What are you doing? Like what's your sound about what's your TV show, what's your what's your what? For a while, I've I've also had to be I've also had to switch it up, you know, because you get into a habit and you sort of so I'm

actually dry at the moment. I know, at the top of Quarantine, I was dry for a while and then I was like what am I doing? And then I was smoking weed like every day for a while. And then a couple of weeks ago to three or maybe four weeks ago. Um, I stopped and have replaced it with bedtime reading, which has been really nice. And I read De Transition Baby by Tory Peters. I stopped like a third of the way through, but I was just like, this is so sexy and hot and I love everything

about this. It was not good nighttime reading because it's a page turner and it's like it gets you sort of going. But I read that last week and enjoyed it. Um. I watched everything I'm watching every like all of the not possible, but there's a lot. There's a lot of things. I actually I made notes of what I watched this weekend, So I watched thunder Force. What did you think? I thought it was so funny. I am very Melissa McCarthy girl. I love a tag you Spencer, and I love their

press narrative. Over the past they were friends like ye and years they were auditioning together, like for like under fives and stuffy old school Hollywood friends. Octavia is like friends with Melissa's parents. You know, it's like true friendship. And that layer of the narrative added it was I thought it was funny, and they were up against each other at the Oscars when Octavia was yeah, that's so,

that's crazy thing. I also rewatched Frances ha Oh great, which I love, Love Love Love, I Love Noah Love Greta. Of course it's very white, but still very good. One of the great films of white cinema, one of the great one of the great white films. Frances Hayes Black and White and White. Yes, speaking of white people, y'all should watch the Netflix documentary about the college admission scandal. Did you watch it? Oh? My god? I did. Shooty

Night Student. I tried to start it, and then once it got to like the recreated it like the recreation, I was like, now I'm out, I'm out, I'm out.

I had doubts too about the recreations. But it actually, by the end, it's kind of good because you realize just how ridiculous some of the conversations that these parents were having like that, like once it gets into the real thick of it, like and you're actually hearing real transcripts acted out of the way people talk about their kids like this one woman that's like, the thing is, you know, we're dealing with my younger daughter, and she's

so much smarter than the older daughter. Like my older daughter was never gonna ask questions about this, but my younger daughter isn't stupid like my older daughter. So good. I loved that when she dragged her kids. Yeah, and then and then you realize like like eventually, like the kids are gonna find out that you did this, and that they even say and the thing like, you know, I think while the while the parents would say they were thinking about their kids, when when they did this,

like they were really not right right right right right now. Yeah, I watched it, and the same thing. But when I was like, these reenactments are going to be brutal, they were. They seem to like that we're gonna be tacky. And then I was like, you know what, girl, you get your COVID check. Okay, I have to some things. I would not have said yes to Ae. Okay, I'm like, you do what you got? It you read that transcript, I would be like, you want me to say what? Okay,

point darling, that's right. I was like, yeah, Matthew, sorry, I go ahead and keep going. And then and then what else? What else have we consumed? I weirdly had a an emotional reaction to god Zilla versus Kong, which I watched yesterday. Emotional reaction extreme anger. No, I cried, beautiful girl. Okay. So, first of all, who do you identify with? Well, it's it wasn't actually have y'all seen it not? I have not. I'm dying too, okay, So how can we not spoil the You can, you can spoil.

I have a feeling I kind of know what the spoiler is. I feel like I will love it no matter what I think of love love. I really love those movies. So okay. So the thing that made me cry is a little bit of a spoiler in that it opens up a plot device, but it's not any of any like big spoilers. So so so Letten reader, if you're listening, you haven't seen it. Um, skip ahead, let's say five minutes. Well, we'll give you a to a specific time signature. But yes, okay, great, sorry, keep going, Clark.

So basically, around thirty minutes, there's this little girl who has like developed a relationship with Kong in the habitat that he's living in, and she is hearing impaired, and you sort of see through the first thirty minutes that she's like has a relationship with him, but you don't really know what it is. And right around minute thirty it is revealed in the most beautiful way that the relationship she has with her is that she can communicate

with him through sign language. And the reason why it got me, the reason why it got me was it because it was just such a beautiful narrative that this girl's I'm literally gonna cry. This girl's disability is her superpower.

It's a crucial plot device. The only way anyone else can can communicate with Kong is through this girl's relationship because of her disability, And um, it was just so like in this time of representation and the conversations of like shoehorning, diversity in and how brutal it is to watch them check boxes, you know, and like for it to be such a thoughtful inclusion and for it to

be the main, driving, crucial plot point. You know, it got me, It got And then he signs home to her, Oh my god, it was, Oh my god, clerk, there was some good stuff in there. I would say, while we're still in spoiler zone, Um, it always irritates me when it's like Godzilla versus Kong and then at the end there's no winner because they're both actually good. Like Godzilla comes in kills what has to be millions of people, like pleasers, like stomping on buildings doing Godzilla's gig, like

he comes in fully on game. And then at the end they have a conversation. They're like they speak to one another. And by the way, there's a really good line by Rebecca Hall, which is we think they have an ancient rivalry. Like she's just like sort of rifling tho drawers, trying to find papers or whatever, and she's like, we believe they have an ancient rivalry. And it's like, well,

this is just pure camp. And then honestly, maybe I loved it at the end and they spoke to each other and decided that Godzilla would go back to the sea. You know what I mean, Like, but I just I guess when you say someone versus someone, there should be a winner. And you know, I mean, shouldn't we as an audience be trained around the idea that there will be not like you're not gonna kill or those are two icons. Yeah, they can't die. No, No, I agree with you, and I feel like, you know, I'm being

a little facetious here. I really want them both to live. I love both the girls. I love both of the girls, both the girls. They represent so much. It would be like it would be like at the end of the podcast, if one of one of us had to die, were two icons on their left, we have to both live, you know what I mean? Well that as a as a reader, that's how we feel when you guys talk about the suicide pact, that you've created, the Megan McCain's

suicide pact. Okay, we don't want to lose you. I really don't think she's coming on, so okay, I think I think that she is. Things have happened this year, Are things have happened? No, I don't think. I don't think it's in the cards. Wait, Clark, can I ask you another frivolous question, even to undercut how perfectly put you just just just just what you found so beautiful about this film where you stoned when you watched it? I was not okay, it was ride. At the time,

I was not a pound of edibles. If I was. If I was stoned, I probably would have laughed a lot more. I probably would have liked, huh, gone on a ride with the visual experience. But because I was, because I was sober, actually not only did I cry more, but but in the context of Biden presenting his infrastructure plan, the only thing I could think about was as Godzilla is destroying Hong Kong. Okay, that's a billion dollars. There's two and a half billions. Where are we getting the

budget to rebuild Hong Kong? And if you're taxing my ass, which I'm okay with, I don't want my money going towards a pothole in a white neighborhood. I want that. Come on, okay, tax them there ancient? What kind of generational wealth have they developed? Exactly exactly have you been watching the race girls? Wow? He said, I watched everything and he's not watching the race. Here's the veil for me, I have not watched. I stopped watching reality television a

couple of years ago. And this is actually something I know. I really want to know this, but I I want to hear why. So it was and you know what's so funny, It was Potomac for me that really made me sort of go over the edge. And two years ago, yes, I want to say it was whenever the narrative about Robin and the house and the divorce and not having any money, and you know, like I don't know, I

can't speak to their narratives now, but got worse. So this is the thing that I have always found so strange, and Potomac I think was what lifted the veil for all the other uh you know girls in the franchise.

For me, um, I thought it was supposed to be about aspirational wealth, and I thought it was supposed to be about people who had a certain amount of money that either we never would have and or like, isn't it great to see them fail socially because they have money that we're jealous of, you know, or like, isn't it great to see people fight because that's the only way that I can make sense of the fact that they have, you know, this conspicuous consumption that we're watching

on television. But then with Potomac, it was like, all these girls are broke, and so I'm like, okay, wait are these are these women on the show? And then also with all the other places, you start to see how they become dependent on the income in order to maintain the lifestyle. They go in and they have some

amount of wealth that they have accumulated or whatever. And now though now they have to make their one million a year on real house Eyes of Atlanta or there, however many hundreds of thousands a year on whatever other thing. And so many of them start there with the hopes of going somewhere else. I think of a person like Nani, and then that doesn't necessarily pan out in the traditional sense, and so then they have to come back anyway. All this to say, and this is what I'm really curious

y'all's thoughts are. I've started to feel complicit in really the destruction of these women's lives because the drama is contrived but real, the divorces are real, the estrangement from their children is real. You know, and then like the dependency on this, you know, it's this negative feedback loop that they've sort of seemed to get gotten trapped in.

That makes that makes complete sense to me. I see, Like what you're sort of disillusioned by is that this seems like a codependent thing where it's the network or it's UM, it's or it's or whatever. It's the network depending on the housewives as talent, and then the housewives depending on the network is a source of income when

it's really a one way exploitation. UM, and that problem that might have opened your eyes to all the reality TV or most reality TV, which is also exploitative in that same way, you know, any day fiances your UM. I mean, that's just like I feel like that that is the prime example, not the prime example, like your hoarders. You're like that kind of thing. Yeah, six pound life.

You know, I think it's interesting, Like what I like about the Housewives is um the sort of ways in which people really say what they feel and I actually has I think, and this is maybe a reach for me to say, but it may they have improved how I deal with conflict in my life because I'm less afraid of what's going to happen if I say what I really think to someone and say, what's bothering me? But maybe because I've seen it display so many times in such bad ways on these shows, but also in

such productive ways. But in terms of your thing about um, like it feels like it's not like a symbiotic relationship, like it's them taking taking taking. I think it depends who you are. I think if you are someone like let's say Jen Shaw on The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, and you know you are a criminal, and you know you've stolen millions from hundreds of people, working class people, then I don't think you go on a reality show because yes, your life is going to be destroyed.

I think if you're someone like Erica Jane and you know more than you say about what your husband has done, maybe don't go on the reality show. If she truly didn't know anything and she thought this is gonna be a way to connect myself with a new audience, and you know, I have a music career that I want more people to know about, then maybe that's why she did it. But I think it's like any person can go out in the world and going out in the world can go well for you or go badly for you.

So I think that these people, whether they're delusional or not, they sign up for this opportunity knowing that it can go well for them or badly for them. I just think not enough people are realistic enough about how it's gonna go for them. But that's what makes them really good reality stars. And I do think it's fun to watch. And I like you're saying, because they all do have

this like wealth they can fall back on. I don't really feel bad if someone's daughter is mad at them because they said that the daughter didn't look good in clothes when they went to the reality show and paraded this opinion about like it's it's it's to me. It's like it's like a study in like Hubris lack thereof. I think it's some says something really crazy about America, which I really like watching. I think it's also a

response to um. The reality shows like that were sort of around and like the early aughts that were all about aspirational wealth, like it felt like, you know, the fabulous life, and like everything was about these rich, rich, rich people and these shows really bringing them down to earth. And I feel like watching that happen is cathartic a little bit. Um that being said, I also I know that a little bit of what I'm saying it was like, no, no, no,

it's still good. I'm fine, And what you're saying is right. It's why I avoided it for so long. That's why I never got into it for so long as I was like you, the last thing you could get me to watch is The Housewives, right then, I actually think it's some of the better reality TV that's out there, to be honest, but do you feel like Clark, that there's a reality TV shaped hole in your consumption or you just like, no, I'm good, Like there's plenty of

stuff to watch. Well, it's the it's that it's also appaired with the time. Uh, you know, you have so many scripted series now and you couldn't possibly watch everything. Um, So I don't feel I do sometimes feel um, I do sometimes feel out of the conversation, and so in those times I'll try to like, like I did watch Um, I guess it's more of a documenteries. But I did

watch Tiger King, which was a docuseries. The biggest compliment ever, But that's similarly I felt so like dirty watching that, and so like, oh, I will say, I did watch, and I really enjoyed selling Sunset. And the reason I did was because I was loving your your episodes about it, and I just didn't. I just like, I don't get it, but I want to engage in this conversation, so I will sometimes um dive in, but usually I'm just trying

to create some distance. Sure, and for selling Sunset, there is some not exception to to to to to this um this idea around reality UM that that you're sort of that I think you're sort of holding in a very nuanced understanding way, but it's that you're they don't.

It doesn't feel it doesn't feel like these people are being exploited, with the exception of like what's her face, Davina right, especially knowing the context of Adam what is his name, Adam de Villo, Adam the Hills, the Hills guy, Yeah, he did the Hills and Laguna, and so knowing I guess this is also sort of part of what I'm saying about reality television in general, is like being at a point now where every class of person, not socio economic class, but every like new class of Housewives or

you know TV show whatever. These are all people who have all watched some version of reality television. We're not getting people who have no idea. We're not getting what was her name on season one of Real Housewives of Atlanta. Um, she only lasted one season and she was so sweet. Not Deshaun, Maybe it was Deshaun And she wrote like a fifteen thousand dollar um tithing check in her megachurch

on like the second episode of the show. You know, you're not getting people who have no idea what they're getting into anymore. You're getting people like Divina exactly, who are going onto this with some like wacko idea of like this is how I'm going to create my narrative on this show when she tried to sell I hope we can continue to follow that narrative. And also, in a way, you have seen drag because you've seen Christine in the sunset, so your drag race quote is sort

of filled there. Um it maybe time now, as we wait, I'm in the drag race canon. I don't know how I haven't mentioned this, do you know this? Wait? So Alex my one of my best friends, Alex Knewell my good Judy. Yes, was on uh celebrity Yes, yes, yes, yes, of course of course and that was the roast episode. Yes,

and there's oh was it? I? Actually it was Alex and two other people competing for money for charity, and Alex got Bob the drag queen um as a mentor, and they were all they all had like once they got into drag they had to show their friends and family and whatever. And so I am on Alex's iPhone. My Chiron was Alex's friend, and my IMDb credits I don't know, put thank you and yeah, there I am on Alex's not himself, not self, Alex's friend, exactly, very distinguished,

very we're playing the role. I was playing the role. Yeah, we must know the answer that you have to our question that we ask every single guest. And it's just truly the moment, which is Clark, what was the culture that made you say? Culture was for you? This is so hard to answer, And of course I've thought about it at length. I think about it every single episode and it gives me a little bit of an anxiety attack because I'm like, what am I going to say? Um?

The reason why it's hard for me to to answer, though, is because I a theme that I've sensed in a number of your guests is certainly as they've become performers or like known performers, there is a shift where they feel like it's something they do alone, privately for themselves at home, in their community theater or whatever, to like, oh, now I'm going to do this on a bigger stage. I'm going to do this on in TV and film,

I'm gonna do this on Broadway. But for me, I just covered performance as a child actor, like so immediately, like my earliest memories of you know, theater or auditioning are also some of my earliest conscious memories. So I never felt separate from culture. I had the opposite. I was just waiting for the phone to ring for me to go be in a movie. You know. I was always like I had that delusion from day one. But I will say I coned through the memories and I

did pick one. That is, it wasn't necessarily the only moment, but it was one of many, and it's curated specifically for the girls here. So Curation Station, You're welcome. I in elementary school, I like everyone here. I loved the Spice girls. They were my everything. They were my all. It sounds insane to say this because it really makes me feel a hundred years old, but I had there. I can't remember what the album was called, but I had it on a a track I had on a tape, Spice, Spice.

It was white with the colors yeah, in the letters, Oh my gosh. And I loved it so much that I actually had a little I guess you could call it a cover band, and we would. We were called the Spice Kids, and we were for Spice Girls tracks exclusively on the wood ships during recess so on like the you know, and the moment, the specific moment where I was like started to see the pieces come together.

You know. It's that meme where like Cira Cedric is looking around or whoever it is looking around and all the numbers are flying around their heads. Yes, yes she does. We call her numbers numbers. It's rule of culture number number um. And I was I was seeing sort of like the behind the scenes. So they have this performance. Do you remember the song Naked we talk Istanbul where

they they're nude behind the chairs, behind the chairs chairs. Yeah, this is one of the most psychonic moments in culture. It's it's actually a very very formative And is this on the list? I don't think that's not on the list. But have to do in the Vice world. The album in the film is in the top fifty. Yes. And so they the lights are out, you see nothing. You see the silhouettes of these women who we love come out, and you see that there's something going on, but you

don't know what it is. They sit behind the chairs. The lights come up, they dropped the towels and they're quote unquote naked behind the chairs that they're sitting in backwards. Okay. The reason why I say this is the moment that I knew culture was for me is because even as a six year old, when I was watching that, I immediately was like, Okay, I know they're not naked because it would be illegal, it would be lude, it would be right, so they would crude and rude, right, So

they have to have something going on there. There's some sort of production element here and there. They have successfully created the illusion, right, and that's what it all is. Right. That's as as any actors, you know, you know that you're creating an illusion that is experienced in the viewer. It's not real, it's it's this magic trick and I this is actually why my cover band became banned be A in an E D. So I well know, because I was like, we can't. But I attempted to recreate

that moment on the wood Chips with my chips. Oh my god. Title of app co star, my second lead vocalist and third lead vocalist. Yes, there are only three of us in the Spice kids, um, and I kept trying to. I just remember being six or seven years old and thinking like, Okay, it's about a thirty second walk from the closest bathroom to our stage, So how are we going to get there without revealing we don't have you know, we don't have a backstage. We don't

have it's all open it's all open air. And also this is a we're in in the round, So how are we going to create the illusion of nudity for the people behind us as well as the people beside and in front of you? Just can't do it, and I try. I enlisted the help of the teachers because I was like, how do I figure out this moment? And You're like how do you were like a young child, You're like, how do I do a new delusion in the round. The adults a new delusion was how do

I how do I figure this out? And they were like, Okay, honey, I think you've taken this a little too far. We're going to have to stop. Um, we're gonna have to ask you. Also, you know, she said to me, a number of the other students are jealous because they aren't in the band, and um, you know, there's sort of an exclusivity thing happening here. So we're gonna have to It's been a great run, but we're gonna have to end. The Spice kids. Well, okay, so were you silent or

silenced for the ladder? Oh my god? Wait, And I should also round out the story. I don't the other two girls. I don't remember one of them, which I feel so bad. It's such a Michelle Williams situation. But my second lead vocalist was actually a woman by the name of now my name is Dr Alicia Kramer, and she is mayor to U S. Senator John Assaf. Oh my god, so let me Georgia. He could put it down. I knew it from the second I saw him. I was like, he could put it down. I know it.

I know he gets real sweet and sensitive. And I bet he's married to former Spice Kid who now goes by the name dr. Now what what? So basically you had three girls and the Spice Kids. You understand there's famously five. So did you have identities similar to famously? The Spice Girls were sort of you understand, baby, posh, sporty, scary and ginger. Explain that we did so the way that I worked around it, because you have to understand Matt and bowhen not everyone was talented enough to be

in the Spice Kids and the whole week. Actually, this is why we had to cap it at three because there wasn't you know, we weren't going to dull ourselves water it down to have her fourth and a fifth just to be you know, true too, true to the original. That's why you caught LaToya and LaTavia. Okay, I wasn't gonna say it, but anti reclusion icon clarkmore exclusive from the beginning. So I said to the girls, I said we can, I said, so, I said to the girls,

and I said, we can do whatever you want. You know, if you want to have a name, if you want to pick a name, you can combine a name, I will allow y'all to choose. The only thing that I know for sure is that I am baby, and so I went by baby boy. I didn't go by a baby spice. I went by baby baby boy, baby boy. And then I don't remember what the other girls chose, but I specifically remember baby boy. And I remember having a little lollipop like Emma and being a little cheeky

six year old. Now here's the deal. I think as adults, we can all say, like, I identify with a certain Spice girl. Now like I I I genuinely identify on this day, of all days in my life with like more of a scary spice energy. I identify with more of a sort of ginger spice rising. And I think that posh lives inside me. But there's something about being a kid, like I don't think there were a lot of kids looking at the Spice girls and not saying

I'm baby baby was everyone wanted to be a baby. Yes, that's why I had to claim it, Okay, and not not not to keep digging into this bit, but you are gate keeping girl bossing the house down. No, I love this girl bossing. Another front runner for title event so shocking to have three. Wow. So then who were Alicia and the other one? What were their identities? Doctor Dr Alicia fool. I want to say Dr Kramer was sporty, because she was always very athletic, and I do, I

do vaguely remember that. And I can't, for the life of me remember that third girl. Oh my god, watch their like Elizabeth Olsen or something. Yeah, a superstar. Honestly, it's so crazy that that she went on to real John aus Off marrying and doctor success. She did, I and also John he because then from elementary school we all continued through the same We switched from that elementary school to a different one, and then all went to

junior high and high school together. I don't mean to put the senator's business out in the streets, but no, do it. We've all seen those all musical theater videosm

not much left to hide after that. Dr Kramer and I actually were first and second chair cello cello in the orchestra together while their romance was beginning, and so literally while we were like playing cello together, I was getting the tea about this hot upper classman that she was dating and who was named Jonathan at the time, and he always sort of had like a senatorial air to him, you know, he was always very and then he went off to Um he's actually connected to my

my professional trajectory weirdly, and that he went off to Georgetown and was in an acapella group there, the Georgetown Chimes, and you were acapella boy and at Dartmouth. At Dartmouth because I was I decided to go into acapella. I kind of probably was always going to do acapella. I've always had acapella energy. But part of the reason why I decided to do it is because he brought the Chimes back to Atlanta to our school, Paideia, and they taught us all these songs. So I randomly know all

these Georgetown fight songs, Um my God. And then I decided to go off to Dartmouth and join the Dartmouth Airs and then the Airs, bringing it all the way back around to reality television show. We competed on the sing off Oh my God, you did not We were runners up to pentaton What I forget? That's where Pedatonics comes. And so that was my like introduction to Los Angeles. It was my first time working on a lot we shot on the Sony lot right down the street in

Culver City, and it was Yeah. So then I guess I owe the Senator in my career. Wait, this is a wild little that is connect. Isn't that great? That's great? But I have one thing. You were about to say something about Elizabeth Olson. I thought when you said Elizabeth Olson, I thought you meant Elizabeth Holmes. And so I was about to make a joke that she went off to commit fraud. And that's why I was distancing myself from

her because of that. They because of the of course, of course, um, I think we still have to talk about spice girls for a second. I think there's endless there's endless conversations to be had about the impact. Were we kids? Where we all kids who like red liner notes? I like nothing had like captured me in such a way. Well, first of all, I want to say, Clark, I watched the naked performance as a child around that same age, and I was I was not showbiz savvy enough to

be like that's fake. I was like, they're actually naked. The boobs, their boobs are, their breasts are touching the chair. They were certainly in a believable state of undressed by one. I would not shame yourself for that one. There was movie magic happening, and the movie magic is some of the most powerful magic. It's it's chaos. It's chaos magic one chaos true that makes you which or the Ginger spice if you understand sort of comparison Ginger is Wanda.

Was she the leader? Was she the leader? Let's just let's decide it? And did they end after she left? It was that it was really that was breaking first sort of understanding of mortality in a way or or something being finite. Yes, exactly. The good times don't last forever. They don't. They don't, they really don't. It felt like it would. And also the fact that it was a choice and such a conscious choice made me feel a little bit betrayed, you know. And that was sort of

my um introduction to heartbreak in a way. Absolutely, I I that actually tracks so so neatly. I was heartbroken, heartbroken, not easy. And it really was this thing of like when like you know, goodbye or forever came out, I was like, oh, this is this is my first real understanding up close of what like thinking like, no, it's not the same it's not the same. Something is lost, something is lost here. And to answer Math's question, was

Ginger the leader? I don't think she was. My My relationship at the time with the Spicycles was that it's beautiful, it's a group, it's girl power. It's all five of them being on the same level, same footing, not vocally even, but somehow they're each essential. And it kind of still affirms the fact that once Ginger left, it still didn't hold up. You know, it's it's exactly what you're saying.

It's like because there wasn't a leader, and like it felt like a limb was missing and the thing could not perform at the same poin like that it was just all about the five of them member that when they were saying feminism before everyone else, like in a mainstream why like and that was her, that was like her thing. She was the worry of the union, Jack, you know what I mean, Like she was so much of the visual identity of the group that for her to leave. I think that's why I asked was she

the leader? Because she is so strongly identifiable, like the why she sang that was Reale sangang you know what I mean? With my nose went on. But you know what I'm saying, Like she was, Yeah, she was so visually and sonically what that group was. That's why I think she gets confused as being the leader sometime. She was just so much a part of it as anyone else. There's a really great video on YouTube. I want to say.

It's a Vogue interview with Jerry where she's slipping through her looks yes, yes, and she talks about the dress. She talks about the creation of the Union Jack dress and basically how it was an accident and sort of puts interesting context to what was obviously an insane I mean, it was only a year. It was only right, like one year maybe almost two was the entire experience of

this Spice girls, like two or three nine. Yeah, it was hard and fast, it was, and that in looking back on that especially, you know, time obviously was processed differently by us than being six and seven, um, than now. But it felt like forever. It did not feel like one year. It felt like ten. I just think about like, especially in the context of like saying culture is for me, or wanting to be a contributor to it or being

a part of it. It speaks to the overwhelming element of a public life, of fame of any kind, of notoriety of any kind. And how do you how do you surf the wave when it's a tsunami? You know? And yet they were pulling out every single moment in that full year and a half two years was and I hate to use this word because it's so overused,

but it was an iconic moment. The dress, the shoes, the hair looks, the songs, the movie Ubiquity, the album that they recorded while they were shooting the movie, you know, like it was just and to quote the Iceberg, um, what was it, twelve songs, no skips, was a banger. Everything they released was amazing and upon a man, not a bull. And then the iconic fun said do what I know? You guys, if you saw me, you would understand it was gorgeous. But you're right, Clark, mother just

gave me a dirty look. They achieved a kind of fame that distorted time because we brought up the same idea when we talked about Brittany after after after the Brittany dot came out. But Brittany's whole ascension was like in like a three or four year span too, not three or four years, but like up until like Blackout, when things just sort of like reached a hilt. It was like what or two six four or five six seven. I can't even do the math right now, you know

what I'm saying a short amount of time. She had been around for like six years, and then she needed like a major reinvention. Like in the Zone was like what I think they would consider it a major reinvention for her, Like because she did the first three albums, it was like maybe a one more time, oops, I did it again, Brittany. But she had those three albums and then she needed to go away for like what was an unheard of at the time, like eight months

to go prepare a different identity. And it was in the Zone, which I which which then came out and like was like a major change for her. But that the fact that that needed to happen because she it was so much in succession. Yeah, it's like that ubiquity we were talking about. But for the Spice Girls, it was like it felt like a full textured career only lasted to three years. Yes, insane and also at the time it being like again like we talked about like

they were truly famous. Everyone knew who they were, and nowadays it's like, you know, people are upset that this is like happening now with Little Mix. Like Little Mix, their fame has been spread out for literally ten years. They've they've they've it's been like a decade since they

did The X Factor in the UK. Yeah, they're a huge band, but they actually stuck around for way longer, and like they're the most quote unquote successful girl group in the world, like and guaranteed, Like I would go as far as say, seven out of ten people in America might not even know who they are. Whereas the Spice Girls, it was like if you didn't know who they were, you must have been dead darling. They were

compared to. I mean, they're disdainfully so, because you know, the Beatles whole are such health in high regard, but but they were heard to that level of fame and that sort of insanity. Um. I also we were also the target demographic for it, But but it did seem like beyond that there were people who at least were aware you couldn't escape it. They were everywhere, right, favorite Spice Girls song I was going to say, rank them, rank the songs. Rank the girls, Rank the girls. Oh

my god, I can rank the girls. I can't rank the songs. Well, I will give us rank the girls first, and then top three, Top three songs. Number one is, of course Baby, because of and because I will always have a you know, she started my career. I owe

my career to her. She really Baby Spice and John also, um, and I guess Scary, I will say, you know, in the context of identity and race, some of the things that I talked about in my podcast, I did have a little bit of the like, you're the black person, so you have to be scary, of course, and so I sort of brushed up against that a lot when I was younger, and I think I overcorrected when I was younger in not wanting to identify with scary only because of our race. But I think now she is

definitely up there. Of course, Jerry. I think right in the middle, Jerry, And that's bold. Posh, uh, yeah, right after miss Beckham, who I have a screenshot of. I have a screenshot of David Beckham's Instagram story when he and presumably Posh watched Love Simon together in their screening room in their house. I loved love Simon. I thought it was an amazing I loved Athan so much. He was a great character that I lost that and cried at with my beautiful children after my husband and I

had sex all night. I never sleep. And then you're gonna rate Sporty last look like it? Okay? Interesting? Interesting, alright? Now the vocals just don't matter to the vocals, don't It was more that like her, you know, they all had a stick, and her stick wasn't as um you know it was. I was sort of like you, girl, you're gonna wear sweatpants on stage? Yeah, that's your look. Your look is gonna be track suit. She was coming for the tomboys, and there's there's not a tomboy here.

She's very ahead of her time exactly. And that's the great thing about them is that they spoke to everyone. I'm not in that demographic, but there were plenty of people in Sportings demographic, of course. Okay, So that now three tracks that you find to be the most essential Spice Girls songs. I think I have them. So do y'all want to go? Do you want me to go first? I? I can go first. I can go first. Um, I

want to be obviously, Um, I gotta have it. And then I'm gonna say, um said to his favorite, why why am I forgetting the sun to become one? I want to be to become one, And I'm gonna say who do you think you are? Those are the three? Wow? Okay? I would I would say want to be and to become one, and I would remove who do you think

you are? And I would put it in spice up your life because I just get so hype when the when the drums start at the beginning of the and speaking of culture, when they were surfing black cabs at Olympics, yes, yes, that was iconic and all five came back. It was Catharsis for everyone to see the all five of them back because it was the last goddamn time. Because Victoria is too busy slang it in the fashion world. Have you seen her volus seventy three questions? It's a muscle,

it's comedy, it's comedy, it's her summer dress. She said, I'm tendling scary and my sum address a perfect sum address. Said that on her Instagram the other day. It was very cute. You can buy the dress, They asked her if she wants to act, and she goes, um, what does she say? She says, um, I started in Spice world and I'm still waiting for my outstanding achievement a world. And then they asked like, what chat what what disease would you get rid of right now if you could?

And she just without missing a beat, goes but just the force with what she says, the conviction with what she says amazing. And she also there's a moment where she she goes, um, They're like, why don't you ever smile? And she goes, I just tell people I'm smiling on the inside. Icon icon It's time. It's time for your three Spice girls. We gave you a breath. So number

one for me is to become one. And the reason why is it's actually connected with a power move that I like to employ as a guest at a wedding. I always sing at weddings, oist specifically when I've not when I've either not been asked or expressly asked not to sing. Wow, you're basic. You're you're the guy with

the guitar, but you don't have the guitar exactly. And what I do is I've locate let me tell you anyone who wants to do this, I locate the queen with the headset, because that's the wedding planner, as we learned from you know, the wedding planner, sorry, Jennifer Lopez. And I sidle up and I do my little gay best friend. Hey girl, you know Dan, I'm like, I so my gift to the bride and the groom. They don't know of this. It's a secret. It's a surprise. Can you help me? I enlist her, Oh my god.

And then I sort of like find my way to the band. I find my way to whatever. And then ideally they have no idea what's coming. The music starts and then boom there I am. I sing to become one. It's so forever. Let me say you believe it's a beautiful song. It's a beautiful song. We sang it. We sang it with Catherine and Pat at Seek Treatment Live. We sang it too bad? Which lyrics? Did you do? Um? Did you do? And I were singing and Pat and Cat were dancing. We like to sing the same thing

at the same time. No, but but we split up the verse. Did you do mean specifically? I mean specifically um, did you do boys and girls look good together? Or love will lead us back to get together? I think we did together. Okay, there's a fault inclusive lyric there that you can do love that they that they did that over time. But I think we did the text as written. I mean, we love the call to condom use in that song be a little bit wiser, Baby

put it on, Put it on. That was maybe I think Baby's most iconic moment when she would sing the pre choruses and so yeah. But that that music video is New York culture because it was. It wasn't the first time I was like seeing like besides like troll and Central Park or whatever, um it was, it was like these beautiful shots of Times Square and the Twin Towers and like the Brooklyn I was like, this is I was like whatever, Like that place seems like the

most beautiful place in the world. And it made me like and it and it is really honey New York. Frank Sinatra, eat your heart out. The quintessential New York musical moment is to become fucking posh spice. I don't know if it's post or scary, but by the courthouse, just like city not even city Hall, the courthouse. At the Courthouse honestly a very good video. They had good videos to videos. Great, what's what's the sale be there?

That was like pretty iconic because the Wannabe was like as a as a music video, it is iconic, but you can tell what this is when they had no budget, and then after that sound was a huge smash, Like then they got a budget and we're gonna go to the desert. They say they were going to say, we could pay for a truck now to take the girls out to the desert. We can pay for a twelve pack of water bottles for the girls. We got a

water budget. We got a water budget. So then number two close upon his naked of it's like they're basically tied. But the only reason why to become one is higher is because because I perform it at weddings when not asked. And then last is want to be and and specifically the video and they're in the house and they're up and down the stairs and they're right in the camera. It's a hotel in London that I think you can go with. Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, I will say those

are excellent choices. I'm gonna challenge my sister. I'm not gonna challenge my sister. I'm just gonna say, spice up your life. I want to love. I want to I want to love it so badly. Too chaotic to chaotic. See, I think I like the chaos of it, especially because like they didn't really have a bigger song after that. I felt like they gave you everything and that one big last song. But you know, it is a little one. Once you got into the I I was like, whatever

is happening there? It was like sometimes in the mood, sometimes I'm not in the mood to be like shaken awake like that. There's value to it, of course, but I would even Yes, this was not as big of a hit as as the other stuff, but I'm I'm sooner listening to holler off of Forever Hollow, excellent song at the song just the four of them wonderful. Did anyone say stop? Rat didn't? It was so like that that was everyone's bit for you know what I mean.

Anytime anyone said stopped, it was like, Oh, it's gonna come, You're right. It was that for a while. It was dyinga it was the Supremes, and then when that song came like maybe stop in the name of it, but then stop came out and everyone would break into the song if they if the words stopped managed to make it into the conversation it was on the nineties were a crazy time, truly. Before we move on from Spice Girls, I do want to know everyone's face favorite comedic or

dramatic moment from the Spice World film. And I also would like to reach out to all the readers who, for chance might know a way we can watch the Spice World film because, like Alaska said, I'll mis program lost cultures and her I don't think so, Honey, you can not get this film, So someone find a way to get us this film. Please, you be our favorite reader. But what is your favorite comedic or dramatic moment from

Spice World? For me, it's the reveal sort of in like a doctor who tardest way that the inside of the bus is bigger than the outside when they walk in and somehow magically they walk into a studio set the sound stage that is somehow also on wheels and a double decker busy. Yes, beautiful things. I really bought it. I thought it was real and I was an idiot. It's like me with a naked performance. I'm like, it was exactly like that. And that's what made us sisters

at a very young age. We were both idiots and destined to be friends. I think I've said in the past, because it is not available just to watch anywhere, I've only seen it one or two times. Oh bo, and it would be your favorite film, it would be another film.

But the moment that stands out to me that's just screamed at me and the most beautiful way, at the most beautiful frequency as a child was when Elton John shows up out of nowhere and they all freak out and they're like Elton and I'm like, and that was the moment where I was like, these girls are so powerful. I was like, these girls know Elton John, they are so powerful, and I will do I will, I will, I will do whatever they say. And so that's the moment.

It was a flex that's that's neither a communic nor dramatic moment, but it was a moment that really was like it was it was. It was like a moment of crossover culture. It was a moment of like pre Avengers, pre Kingdom Hearts, l O l pre whatever, me being like, wow, worlds can collide. I mean, these are real people, but in terms of that movie being the container for them to cross paths, I go, oh my god, this I've

never seen anything like this. My favorite moment in the film is famously when they are doing the obstacle course and the four of them are going through the opposite course and you just see like all of a sudden, Victoria Beckham just walking Victoria Adams at the time, posh By is just walking around the opposite course in her heels and this is what she's going to do for the opposal course. She's not going to do it. She just struts alongside while the other girls like do it.

It's so funny. It's hilarious. And then there's another scene later where they're in the hospital and they're waiting for their friends to give birth, which is like the plot of the movie, like they're fresh giving birth. I have to do a concert, but they want to be there for her, so like they're on the hospital and Jerry Jerry goes, I spy with my little eyes something blue and this is one of them goes hospital. Posh Spice just goes shut up. Jerry and that's why she's doing

her Outstanding Achievement Award. And from what awards body we don't know, but we just know that the award is called Outstanding Achievement Award. Give her her rewards. It's really culture number fifteen. Posh, Spice is do her standing her outstanding an award. Oh my god, Spice World, Oh my gosh.

I just want to thank Clark for giving us the gift to talk about Spice and the Spice Girls, which is itself truly, I mean, it's it was a gift, the gift of Spice, the gift of Spice, the gift of Spice and sisterhood, Spice and Sisterhood another before we go into I don't think so, honey, because I feel it coming. I feel it. I brought another gift for the two of you, which is a story that I have never hold anyone and I don't know how I made it through my press campaign without saying this story

about love Simon a couple of years ago. But it is a is an exclusive behind the scene, again specifically curated for the readers when we were shooting the film, um which we don't need to know. I can just call it the film the film. So my scene, the big Principles office scene, right the two of us were sitting there. I get my moment, I get my like, this is us, let me tell you a story monologue moment.

Greg Berlante, our director, at the end, we did a couple of takes of it, and he was like, I want you to, like sort of, you know, feel free to add anything. And you want, you know, if you want to improv something, if you want to add like a button, or if you want to add whatever. And I was like, okay, what could I possibly add? So then the next time we did the I think after

like take two were three. At the end of the monologue, right before we're called into the office, I looked at Nick Robinson and I said these words, which were unfortunately cut from the film. I said, welcome to the Sisterhood. Ah. They cut it. They cut and I said it a million times. We did it in a bunch of takes, and and there were other pieces that were cut as well. And I totally also get that it might not have been the right vibe for the Like, whatever they did,

I think they did a great job. I wanted to share it with with y'all and with the readers, because I feel like it was one of those like behind the scenes little tidbits that maybe can make the experience, uh just a little bit more special for any of the true heads. You know, everyone doesn't need to welcome to the Sisterhood moment, but for my sisters, for my community. Um I tried to shoehorn welcome to the Sisterhood in and um I knew y'a would appreciate that, so we do.

And you know, I actually like when Love Simon came out. I think a lot of queer people were being a little hard on it because like it was this very commercial, like very much trying to be a movie about a gay kid for straight people. And I think that that's okay, you know what I mean, Like I would rather see that than the millionth version of you know, Paper Kites or whatever the hell it is, like whatever, like whatever movie that would get that budget. Like I'm happy there's

a Love Simon, you know what I mean? Like of course, like is it extremely white, yes, Like is it extreme? Is it very much about someone with a lot of privilege? Yes, it does not strip that None of those things stripped it of its value in a way, right, and I so I think, like, um, it's it's fucking great that

you that you said that. Am I surprised they cut it, no, because I think that probably they were trying to juggle things in their head about how the straight audience that was watching it we would respond to something like welcome to the sisterhood, like because that that line is going to make some dad and the audience say, oh, so it's what I thought. He's a woman now, you know

what I mean? Like, and it's just like just to walk people through that, Like, I get why they cut it, but I also understand and appreciate that you said it. That's like and thank you for telling us. Of course we shared it just for you all these years. Well you were so memorable in that movie, and like we we loved it and we're just so happy that you're here.

Now we're going to have a moment of what we do a segment called I don't think so honey, Well, take one minute to go off on something and culture. It's really chapping our our limbs, our limbs all our asses in our limbs or our asses which are a terminus of our legs. The legs end and start at the ass people don't talk about that, but you're asked. It's really what just what your legs become? You know

what I mean? Like, if you're a butt guy, I'm putting this on quotes, you're really a leg freak because guess what your legs end were the ass cracks? Oh rule culture number nine? Read culture number number nine? Your legs, legs, legs? And where your as crass read? I wait to see that one illustrated read a book? Bitch? Um? Now, so what do you have something? Um? You know? I think I do? Okay, oh, I think I do. I hear some conviction. I can't wait to hear this. This is

Matt Rodgers is I don't think so, honey. As time starts now, girl, I don't think so honey. American Idol this season. I turned it on last night because I am very much convalescing, and I think my mother, who's sitting right here to my left, can agree. There's not one good person on that. Some people were like, oh, some of the girls are good, and I was watching it and I'm like, yeah, I get that there's good singing happening, but like, where is the star quality on

this program? I couldn't find it. So basically the judges are Katy Perry, Luke Bryant, who just announced today he has COVID. He's a celebrity in l A April twelve, two thousand twenty one, who's contracting COVID. I don't know how you do that, but he did, and Lionel Richie and they stand up an applaud for everyone, and I'm like, girl,

where is the critique. Also, they have them perform right after they figured out they made it into the finals, and so it's like they're so shaky and freaked out because they just found out they made it, and they sound pitchy. I don't think so, honey. If you're gonna do American, I don't do one more season. Bring back the original three. Simon, Paula, Randy, Let's go out with the bank, kill it to take it out back. That's one minute, take it out back, kill it. The voice

has surpassed it. Paula is going to fill in for Luke Bryan, who, again, I'll say, is on April twelve, two thousand one in the Pandemic, a celebrity in l A who contracted the coronavirus. I don't know how that let's let's not, let's not, you know, stigmatize getting the virus in some late or middle stage. I'm just saying he's very protected citizen. Yes, yes, you're right, that is true. But girl, I mean American idol is a flat right mom? What'd she say? She said? Dan bird, dam bird? Not good.

She's through her catchphrasing. There, she knows the assignment. She understands the assignment. That's good branding. Oh, she's a great brand she and she understands that. To be sure? Were you know we just watched the branding challenge of drag Race, a pointless episode. Oh, the the sodas, the soda pops. Who's soda crops? Did you think was the best? Mom you liked Simmons Simmons with Cement Simon one. Everybody's got a sweet tooth? Remember that one. Rose's What's good? My

mom loves Rose. And I had to say in in rewatching the season, I think people, you know, I think that, especially people in New York who know Rose. I think who are just used to go how good Rose is? Are being hard on Rose. I think Rose, the the gen Zers love her. The gen Zers love Rose. This is what I've heard is that she's getting a lot of um like a lot of the acode on my discovery page on my Instagram is like full of like drag race metrics, analytics, and like I'm seeing a lot

of stuff like the top four. Sorry Clark, this is fully alienating. Um No, I mean it's why gen Z loving something is it makes me nervous. It's fascinating, it's fascinating. Well, it's just like they love Rose and like Rose's overwhelmingly winning like the polling quote unquote, not that it matters, but like um in the in the end, because it's Rue's choice to make. Of course you gotta win the route polling. Oh my god, the way I turned that, the way you turned that? But Rube, But sorry, gen

Zers love Rose so interesting. You think that they would go for Goot Mick, Got Mick, and they they do also love Gotmick. But there there's a there's a pretty big margin um or difference with between Rose and Got Mick. I am gonna I've decided just now, I'm gonna I'm gonna be real with mine. I'm gonna be a little real okay, because you know what it is. Clark just inspired me. He shared something that he never did not share on the press, on the on the press store

for loves Simon. He got me to open up in a way that I would have never opened up to like a professional journalist. And I'm about to open up in a way that I would only tell my sisters. All Right, well you heard it your first. We're getting raw and real and it's Bowen Yang's I don't think so, honey. His time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Any language around any cast member on SML right now saying Blank stole the show. Blank is carrying the show on

their backs. No, that erases the work of let's say, nineteen other people on that cast. This is the biggest cast the show has ever had. It's crazy, it's weird to navigate. Everyone is doing their best. Everyone is so un goodly talented in ways that no one in the audience can begin to understand. Internally, this is the vibe. We are all acknowledging each other's work, ethic and humor and different points of view and sensibilities, and it's a beautiful,

beautiful coexistence, and we all appreciate each other. And this is a I can't believe this season of television that I have weirdly been a part of coincidentally, I like,

how the fund did we get through this season? We're all doing our best, and we are all so so fucking funny that it's crazy to me to even suggest that it's an individual thing and not a collective thing that like me, the quality of the show is slightly different than it was in the past, or it's goofy, I'm sorry, I'm totally running the clock at this point, but it's like it really bugs me with like bow and bow and yes, I'm I'm using myself as an

example because I've just been inundated with a little bit too much positive feedback. But I'm just like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you guys don't get it. This is like like every single person on this show right now is is so fucking good at this. That's all. It takes a village

to that's all. And I don't I don't mean to like signal anything beyond on a meta level of like I'm what, I truly believe this in my heart, I go wow, like I can't believe what goes on at the show, like and the heartbreak that goes into like the creative process when things like dope come to term or whatever. I'm just like, y'all, like, it's not as it's not quite as like it's survivorship by it's it's like you're only seeing the stuff that makes it onto

the show. You're not seeing the stuff that didn't make it. That like is just as I don't know, great wonderful funny anyway, I think that's just a way that people, Um, that's one mode of people expressing themselves is too sort of like in lifting one thing up put down another thing. I mean, I know what happens, so it's like it's but I also think, like it's what you're saying is true that like, but it feels zero sum. It feels

like what now just yeah yeah. But but also like at the very heart of that is everyone being very proud of you and excited for you that you've done so well. But also you're right, it's I appreciate that that piece and all the pieces don't get made without like a million people were in their sucking ass off on it, especially at that show where it's like literally

all hands on deck, you know what I mean. It must feel a little weird to get a feedback that's like if it wasn't for this person, and I wouldn't watch. It's just this is crazy. It's like it's it's it's weird and like and and and it's it's a show that engenders a lot of strong opinions because people have associations with it, whether they're very emotional or whether they're like disillusioned by it. And like, I totally get the crowd of people out there who are like sl sucks

and hasn't been funny. I'm just like, yeah, great in terms of like, but in terms of a form of praise being packaged in like this person is exceptional in this way. I'm like, there's it's not the exception though. The rule. The rule is that the people who are on that show have some reason to be there, you know, like have some like have proven something by virtue of just being on the show. It's just am I am I like out of line. I don't think it's so crazy.

And I also think this speaks to what I feel, what I've always felt in terms of like receiving feedback either positive or negative. It's like, especially the negative, I feel like we're taught how to deal with we're taught to ignore the comments were talked to, you know, process it in whatever way. But the positive can be even more overwhelming because what do you do with it? And and then because if there's so much of it, or if it's also in a specific way, like how do

you process that? Is it real? You know, if the bad wasn't real, then how can the good be? Really? My mind goes on this on this whole journey as well. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure I can't imagine. Yeah, And it's also very good to be conscious of ego, you know what I mean, because it's like, that's that's really I think where it gets tripped up is because like what if you were to believe one day that you were the only person to make the show run? Like that's crazy. So basically

it's just like, you know, it's it's it's all. And that's another reason. It's another it's another argument for getting literally offline. And I have to say, I activate on my Twitter again today. Well do you wanna what I did this time? So all the other times they got off Twitter, I deactivated it but kept the window open for twelve months. This time I did it for thirty days. I'm like, I think this is it. I think this is the last this is the last leg um commitment.

Yes commitment. I just but I just want to like just just just um compound what you guys are saying, which is like the the the the oversimplified way that I can think of this now is that like you have to examine question whatever the positive on the same with the same scrutiny that you would with the negative.

The best advice I've ever gotten was from one of the producers on the thing off right towards the end, as she was like, your career is going to go well, you are, you are going in a really positive direction. I believe in you. And she said the advice that I will give you is they are never you are never as good or as bad as That is how I process all of it because because yeah, the good

can be really overwhelming. And also the other thing too is like a lot of people when they say something, they say in a moment, they're not all the time, you know what I mean. So it's like it's something I also think that can happen with social media is like you know, someone tosses off a mean or positive comment and you think that person is obsessed with me. No, they said it in a second. It's a fleeting thought that like is it is now like sort of written

in ink Mark Zuckerberg. Um, but yeah, anyway, um social network quote anyway, Oh my god, I got I got a little Volney, I got it. I got real because it's fine and we love that anyway. So um, but it's because Clark is here. It's because Clark, Clark. Clark opens the floodgates of of of von the Clark effect. It's the Park effect. And right now we're going to actually experience the Clark effect in uh in rare form as Clark endeavors to complete. And I don't think so, honey, Clark,

the moment is here. Are you Are you ready for it? Teller Swift definitely not. But I will give it a good I'll give it an old college try, Dartmouth try. Now, wait, what before we get this, did you at Dartmouth doing acapella? Ever experienced the n y U and harmonics out in the wild? Of course? Yeah? Ali Stroker, Oh wow, we're now represented by the same manager. Rachel Saltzman, shout out, she salts They did. They did a cover of Billy Ray was a preach. Just yeah, it's an incredible cover

of It's so good. It's on YouTube. It's worth it's worth thinking into. This was the riff okay, y good? Is it always no matter it's a Stunn name. Are you used to love them? I used to love I designed. I designed their first album. I remember design. I remember the terrible design. I did a terrible job. I still think to they stay about how I did not do them justice, because I'm sure they loved us, why they

used it. I also like I wanted to audition for them so bad, but was busy with Hammercats and wasn't like confident enough to go. They were way better than we were. They were like they were like legit, legit, legit. Yeah. Our our charm and our stick was this sort of like good old boy, you know, like mediocre sounding white guy vibe. That was like where we live. That was

the dartmouth acapella vibe got up. Whereas n y U and arms their thing, their thing, I'm not kidding you, was they riff down, they look hot, and they do drugs. That was literally their thing. And they can drag me for that, but that was your thing. And I don't know that was that was the thing, and it was it was it was like it was like it was like they were like a scary hot acapella group. Ye. Anyway, but it's time Clark mar your I don't think so, honey,

begins now. I don't think so, honey, headaches. Okay, you really are that bitch you come into my brainscape, I at least expect you. You thoroughly ruin my life. You take away my vision, my productivity, jois de vis, my personality, and my general will to live. As the kids say, you are living rent free in my brain and it's time for you to get the respected. Oh, there are no squatters rights in my freefrontal cortex, and honey, you are way past do I know? You always come up

with excuses. You're trying to blame your existence on anything you can, my dehydration, my insomnia, the barometric pressure of venice. Bitch. Ay, time you start taking accountability. Okay, my cerebellum is closed to you, headaches. I don't think so, honey. You are not welcome here. Wow, that's one minute. You know, as someone who has been dealing with a lot of tile at all extra strength recently, I am with you, sister headaches.

Just had your right headaches come in and they're like they're that neighbor that pops spy, that's like no reason just wanted to It's like there's no reason that they should be there. It's it's like Agatha all along. It's Agnes coming in as just checking in Onwanda, without the reveal, without without the fun reveal, without the fun reveal of Catherine Han the reveal. The reason is actually also chaos magic. That's why we get headaches. Yeah, yeah, they're amongst my

least favorite things in the world. I would say headaches, canker sores, um, coughing, fit, common cold. So these are things that just don't want. A tooth hurts darling. These are things that don't need to happen, but often do. Um. What is what is your pain reliever of choice? Um? I have some, I have some holistic remedies and I have and of course you know hyperproofan. I try to stay away from it though, because excuse me, I don't like to take a leave a lot leave though I

used to take Adville. Apparently a leave has a longer half life, so it lasts longer but when you were pre met, you know, just half life. Oh yeah, I know what that means. Does I mean it's more shelf stable quote unquote talking about it's got jams releasing the I think it just like lasts longer. So like the headache, the medicine works longer. You know what's interesting, I was

not a lot. I have to be on tile and all right now because they say that all the other pain relievers, hyperprofen, advil, etcetera, they're all they thin your blood blood dinners. Yeah, so I didn't know that. One of the holistic things that actually does work for me is peppermint oil. And it always has worked for me,

both because I think it opens up some pathways. I usually get sinus headaches in the front and so the peppermint oil, I put it on my um, upper lip, on my temples, and then I put it in between my How does one describe this in between the thumb and first index finger? Because this is all that we call that. We called out the smash mouth the l on her well put it in the smash mouth. Um,

there's a pressure point there. Um. And I also have this little thing that like squeezes, it's it clips onto my smash mouth and it squeezes the pressure point and that helps with the headache as well. Look at that he's healing the I'm giving you practical advice, private practice, a holistic prac justin in Venice and Santa Monica near Son with no accreditation. So please don't sue me. Listen, Oh, I think we are. We are not going to sue. We're not going to see work. We've kept Clark over time.

I rudely had to push this whole thing back once and do it and do it again near minutes before we're gonna let Clark go. But this was this was healing. This was so fun. Thank you for having me. I love y'all so much. Thank you for being on my show. I'm so glad that we've closed out the loop here. Yes, um and you both have brought such a validation to the pod. I was gonna say validation. I'm not even kidding.

I think people take it more seriously now. And your two episodes are no way, it's all you, It's all you, baby. They're the most listened to episodes of all and um that is probably for a reason. So thank you guys, and especially Bowen. Thank you for doing it before it even existed. You know it could have been literally anything, and you jumped in in those early days. So thank you. Well. We are great fans and great admirers and great friends. Yes,

welcome to the sisterhood. Everyone listened to soul Bomb. Yes, you gotta listen to bomb. Um and uh, just let's listen to and watch everything that Clark does. Haven't come on bowen, Uh we are going to. I'm we're going to bravely still finish with the song. And um, I think you know what it is. I think you know what it is. Billy Ray was visit, coming along let together, and start started talking that some billy would take me walk in the back yard. How do we go walking?

To my eyes, those massive prize and the only one to hell, let's teach me was this each a man, a British woman singing like a southern Memphis bell. I love it. Bye bye