Look Mayer, Oh, I see you my own look over there is that culture. Yes, goodness, wow, lost culture. Lost culture is just calling my girl has me laughing straight away.
Well, you know, I just had to comment on the glow, the berries glow shut.
Up literally looking at myself in the in the zoom screen. Yes, the grid, the grid. Okay, So in terms of alcohol these days, do you feel the next day like it's a little different, like immediate puffiness, immediate puffiness. Oh.
I mean not to refer to the last episode, but the video of that is really a rough for me because I am puffy, blotchy, redden spots that make no sense. I've got archipelagos on the face. It's really crazy and that's perfect example for me.
But what about you. I just feel like it's funny that you say, like, wow, you look so healthy with a glow. Literally the other day I was like, oh yeah, I'm like I've been really good. It's like I was calling it dry ish January. By the way, I thought you looked absolutely incredible in the video. I thought everyone
involved it amazing. I thought the lights were perfect. I thought they weren't too harsh at all in the room, though they were Breckt Well, No, I was just thinking the other day, like I'll have like a night out and the next day it's like it's a different face. And I think that's just what happens when you get a little bit old, you know. Hmmm.
Yeah, Now, lots of culture since the last episode, would you say, you're got up?
Oh damn, you really really launched us into the topics at a hand here with that one. I had that loaded. I definitely am caught up. I made a little list and so just you know, because I know you're all chomping at the bit, we're not going to do our goblet of years today because there's so much culture to talk about. Slash we both didn't make the document to follow, so that's just the reality of today. But fear not, fear not, because I really feel there's so much to discuss.
And ninety three we weren't going to do like a slipshod job with it. It's a big year, so we got to really do the homework, you know what I mean.
It's a Jurassic But okay, so you sort of belted those notes before cut up, and I'm really I belted, I really belt it that you really belted that you said that with the chess. Wow, all of this is gonna come together later. What'd you think of Usher? Were you absolutely thrilled with the performance. I was so happy.
Yeah, watching him, I was like, this is an entertainer. That whole production was Atlanta and Vegas. It was so those cities, all the elements were great. I mean, this man, that quick change. I looked one minute under one minute insane for him to go into well granted he was shirtless going into the roller skate loook. Yeah, one minute, and I just my quick change girl is out there? Who know who have practical knowledge of this?
Have you ever your little Broadway cunts, your little Broadway cunts in the words of in the words of great American? Have you experienced quick change culture at all? I have. Yeah, I did amateur sketch, not not on the level that you did, but I've done quick changes for show. Someday. You're for show someday You're going to have like three people waiting for you in the wings with an open jacket with pants with like a wig like and wide eyes and wide eyes. And I just want to say,
one minute is nail bier time. It's crazy. First of all, it's really much shorter than you think. Okay, one minute, like one minute on the clock, Like you're really on the clock there, like you better hurry.
One minute in Vegas is I mean talk about a New York minute. That's a Vegas minute.
Baby. It's like fire Island time moves a little differently there. Wow? Who wrote that? A tortured poet? Joel Boster from the Torture Poet's Department. Now, if Taylor is the chairman, who is Joel vice chair Byce Royce ROI very Star Wars episode one? Okay, continue Usher, Usher? Oh No, that's I mean, I do have it.
I don't think somebody that's about an element of this that is not specific to anyone on that stage that night.
But it's a thing that I think.
We we have the means to correct, and yet we still in the year twenty twenty four, don't get right.
And I want to talk about this later on. Oh my god. Well now I'm absolutely I feel baited. I'm edging for that. So my opinion on the Usher performances, I think it got better, it sharted and I thought, okay, there's a lot going on. Yeah, I just think I was contrasting it with like Rihanna's perform last year, which was so like for the cameras and the colors were so clear, and she was so like focused and like it was just very.
That was a new kind of Super Bowl performance that was like all innovation. Rice one was was pretty. I think it's huge to tradition and a way that totally was fine and acceptable. And also that's a man and men just don't do it for gay men in the way that women do.
Does that mean yeah, But that being said, I do think that he was dressed like one of the world's top ten gayest men. Like I do think his outfits are often what I would call so gay, especially that blue number he came out in and did the Rollerskates on. I think that like there was so much here for the gay male. I for example, Usher was shirtless, Usher
was dancing, Usher was looking gay. And I say this as the biggest compliment, like, whenever a straight man can come out looking that gay, I think it's so incredible, And I think that was actually a message to the world that gay is here. I think that was an LGBTQ performance. Plus, even if I had any note for the performance, It's the same note that I have for the lgbtqbus community, which is too much, too much at the beginning, you know what I mean, that's true note
for the community, Yeah, too much. I just thought at the top there was so much going on that I couldn't like see it. But once a Lisha came out, and once we got over that first note, we got we got through greener pastors, and I loved watching the Mybu performance. I thought Alisha looked amazing, Alicia looked great, and you know, that was a throwback moment and that
chemistry is still there between those two totally. I thought once we got through, when we got him off that first mic and we got into the performance, then I thought the performance got better, Like the roller skating was incredible. He's obviously amazing, But you know, I thought overall was like of seven.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, seven seems good. You're not in the beginning of it there being too much. I think that's a camera because it would like some girl in a tux would do a backflip and the camera would follow her for some reason. But it's like, no, we want to look at usher, like.
Why something for sure was happening with the camera there was something going on at the top. And again this is like so small and nipicky because the performance was great. His songs are I remember like when I saw him in Vegas, I was like, wow, so you know so many more of these than you realize it is. It's like an arsenal of hits, which I think is so
important in a subway performer. And I want to get your opinion about, like who the next couple great super Bowl headlines you want to see are like, did you're talking subway performer? Did I say subway performer? I think, really, can we get can we roll back? Can we get a conversation? I said subway in a subway performer? Yes, says yeah, I'm sorry. I just had to acknowledge that. I was like, you're calling Usher, like, no, no, I I don't think Usher has needed to busk. Ever, that
was a slip of the tongue. No, no one involved this a subway performer. And also this is I say it with all the respect to also by performers. Many of them could probably do the Super Bowl and do a fabulous job, a bang up job. Now, what was
your original question? What do you think we're gonna see In terms of next great super Bowl headliner, the girls and I were sort of kicking this around the other day, like because it feels like there aren't too too many people who are like monoculture huge that would excel at the super Bowl. And then we kind of kicked around, like a couple names that we think could do it, Like, obviously there's Taylor, will get to her. There's a lot to discuss about Taylor this week. I was thinking, especially
after the Grammys, like Miley would be amazing. I also think Dua would be amazing, But I want to know what you think do it would be amazing. Miley would be amazing.
Because we really are hitting a plateau with like in terms of people who have not been picked to do it. Yeah, And I don't know if it's a matter of cooking of like letting the girls cook for a little exactly before they're ready. But I feel like things have been simmering for some decades for some of these girls now,
like Usher. I would say this was like the right time for Usher totally, but he could have done it, like at any point in the last ten years, probably, But I wonder what that math is or what the factors are, and I'm like, there's a million decisions that go into picking the right person. Yeah, I mean Taylor. She you want to talk about Taylor now or doing it?
I guess my thing is like the thing about Miley and Dua there is It's like Doua's basically a cheerleader. She puts on a great show, and she has enough hits that are like mainstream big hits that everyone knows where they could keep coming and it will be a really fun show and you kind of can sing in your mind's eye what that would be. And then Miley is just such a huge name and does have the
big songs. I do think that there's an argument to be made about like letting them cook more like you were saying, because we were saying, like, you know, after like another album or two, both of them are like no brainers. But I was just thinking, like what would what would I want to see? I feel like the rubric is the person has to be huge enough where at every Super Bowl party, everyone's gonna say, oh, so and so is doing the game, and we all know who that is. No one has to be explained who
Beyonce is. No one has to be explained who Lady Gaga is. It's that same thing. So that's one tier, and then then other tier is that person has to be willing and able to do the work to put on that good and that level quality of a show. And so those are the two things. And also in that second thing, it's like wanting to do that, you know what I mean, Like like I don't know if someone like Mariah Carey would want to do that, because it's a lot of pressure. Do you think Ario, I
don't would want to do the Super Bowl? I don't know.
Yeah, right, it's a lot of pressure. My gud is telling me not anytime soon. But I would have to ask the girl, and I don't want to bother her with that kind of question.
Well, Collor, you guys met during the Wicked trailer. No, bo Ariana met during the making of the Wicked trailer. The making of the Wicked trailer. Yeah, you guys made that great trailer that showed during the Super Bowl.
But we met during the making. All you're saying we met the circumstances of our meeting. Of our first meeting was for the making of the Wicked trailer, but just the trailer.
Yeah, you guys have been shooting the Wicked trailer for a couple of years now. Yeah.
I can't wait to do the movie at some point. I think that'll be really fun.
Congrats grad on the Wicked trailer. I mean, blink and you'll miss me. Yeah, but you know what, guess what you know who noticed you? Meme creators and that's all matters. They got you, They got you turning around and they said, but when you really gave that gay gaze, listen, he turned around like like a fag and should I mean, everyone get ready, I'm really showing my range. I'm playing a gay guy, but you know I'm playing a hater for the first time. Oh my god. Wait, thank you
for that. You made a distinction. He's not just any gay guy. Fanny is a read the discourse. Honey, girl, you want to do some Uh.
I've been researching. I've been researching. No, this guy sucks and frankly is a racist.
Oh my god.
He sees a green person and he goes, I'm going to fucking ruin that person's life.
Wow. You had to go to the depths of really, you had to go to the most disgusting part of yourself and reach deep down in order to play Fanny in this film Wicked trailer, the trailer, yeah, yeah, yeah, the trailer.
I will say, the discussions going into Fanny, like John Mshu God bless him is a director down no small parts, is like, let's sit down and talk about Fanny and GHENTI yeah. And then me and Brahmin were like absolutely, And then Ari was there and then we all the four of us like talked about these people, and I think we arrived at something really interesting And I can't wait for you guys to see.
I can't wait to see like what happened when you guys really sat down and put Benza paper and said, who's a crazy sycophantic, racist gig guy in this world? You know what I mean? Like, and his name is Fanny? Like me? Is that? Yeah?
Yeah?
Yeah yeah yeah it looks good girl. I love the train. The train absolutely. The train was a huge moment. Now what do you think of this?
Some people pointed out that they made that bitch Dorothy walk when they had trains the whole time to the Emerald City. What do you make of that?
I think they lied to Dorothy several times about what she was capable of. What she could do, and I think she showed them because can I tell you something, Dorothy did it backwards eden heels and it's actually really number fifty six. Dorothy Gales was a legend.
I think Dorothy walked forward and that's a kitten heel, bitch, that is not a real full fledged My.
God, drag her. You're like, my girl, you're a real bootlecker. You're like I saw Arianna walking in stilettos on set. Dorothy was in a kitten heel. And you said she didn't do it backwards. She in fact had a lot of friends helping her skip along the way, skip along the way.
She was arm in arm with these fucking freaks. As I mean, it's not spoiler alert, it's you know, this is wicked. But like Scarecrow and tin Man, they're users. They used Dorothy to help Alphaba escape, do you know what I mean? Very smart?
Yeah, I mean I think that the manipulation amongst that group can only be described as they're definitely in contention for traders. Susan God, get get them on the cast.
Get Scarecrow, Fierro, get Tin Man, fucking boch Yes, get them on cast.
Oh my god, this is the only like real plot hole though in Wicked and Wizard of Us to me is like Fierro was Scarecrow all along, like make it makes sense to me. I'm sorry, girl, I'm out. I'm not seeing this girl. Take it up with Gregory maguire. He knows I just truth.
Okay, can I say? Can I reveal? There was one set visit where Gregory McGuire caane. It was very exciting.
I never know if you actually can reveal these things, like you're the Can I say, can I reveal? I think I'm okay to say this, and then you always say absolutely, and then I'm always like so nervous, but here you go, I can say this, roll it out, say this.
Gregory Maguire came to set and then I went over to say hello to him. He was so nice, and then I think, I think this is a lie. And Gregory, this is your if you're listening, because this is literally what he said, you must confirm. He goes and I really enjoy your podcast. I was like, oh, thank you, mister McGuire. You think Gregory maguire is a reader Katie Publisist finalist, I can't picture him listening to this podcast is.
A man that is a cultured man.
Who is I'm gonna say out of the traditional demo of this podcast, and I say that with love and respect and admiration. But that's Gregory Maguire, one of the most successful authors in the last twenty years.
Boh, and I'm telling you I never put it past anyone nowadays. I think everyone listens to this, everyone and their mother. I think everyone's at home listening streaming. I think that they are absorbing. I think you think maguire is listening with Gregory. I think he listens with his mom. I think a lot of people do. Oh my god, that's let me tell you this is huge, this podcast. I mean listen and it's a nominee for Best Pop
Culture Podcast. I thought my Heart Radio Awards, you know, like we're here breaking down the latest in pop culture. It's us versus Bethany Frankel headline. We are in the wrong category here, That's okay.
Look, they couldn't give it to us every year. We were very honored by Podcast of the Year last year. And don't forget it, and don't forget it twenty twenty three a competitive year.
Oh yeah, this is this is a real nail biter. Okay, so the Wicked trailer. That was great. I was very excited. A lot of people have their favorite images from the trailer because you know that something that happens is you know, or something will come out and like people will be like, oh my god, this and they'll show a picture from the trailer. This is sort of main culture. Oh Jonathan Bailey like getting his face stroked. I think a lot of people are very excited about his face and the
stroke in question, you know what I mean. People are very excited about the final roar of the song, which you know, if you were truly like like you know, someone scurrying around the internet, you had heard it before because it was out there, but to hear it, to hear the trailer, oh yeah, that was major. Major.
Put some sauce on it, texture mm hmm. It was really I mean, is it not thrilling? I got goosebumps. I'd already heard it, and I got goosebumps when I watched the trailer for the first time. They went, wow, good job.
You know.
There were at least ten meetings about should we put the riff in the trailer? Like I think you got to give the riff, give the riff that is that's gonna put butts in seats, you know what I mean.
If there was any question about whether there'd be butts in seats. I just feel like, you know, it's the trailer, it's the Wicked trailer, it's the super Bowl, like we know there's going to be that note like, let's hear it. And I think it sounded fucking great and it looked thrilling. I also I saw some people posting like this was my reaction to the Wicked trailer, and like those things of like someone taking a video of themselves reacting to it. Yeah,
like what we do? I think it's funny. I don't know. I'm not dragging. I'm not dragging.
I'm just questioning, like the conventions of this new thing where I'm watching me watch, watch me watch, and I go, okay, but what can you give me a reason to watch? Can I get commentary during? Can I get commentary after? Some of these girls are just posting pictures of their silent faces, and I go, I'm gonna need a little bit more than that.
That's all.
I'm not dragging. I'm saying, can we deliver on the promise? Of the premise.
You are. You are a hungry bottom for a take, for a dissection. You want to hear the discourse.
We're putting our necks out every week giving our takes.
Authenticity is so dangerous and expensive. You know how much trouble I could get in for anything? You know, Bowen Yang is, He's endangered species out here, an honest public figure.
Come on, I'm getting in trouble. I'm gonna in trouble everywhere.
Everywhere you go. Wait, what was it? Oh? So basically like people were seen excited to see her in the bubble. I was excited to see her in the bubble. We saw a lot, We saw a lot of iconography. It was a really good trailer and for me, it gave a lot love. What else we else is a super Bowl moment.
I would say the homes dot Com commercial starring Dan Levy and Heidi Gardner. Yeah, she needed more lines. Give Heidi more lines. But you know what, I'm sure she and I don't want to speak for her.
But good job getting the bag. That's That's what I consoled myself with the whole time as I sat there watching it, and I felt she did enough enough lines I'm like, well, at least she got this huge fucking check, and really cados to everyone got the big check. I just felt, you know, my girl could have been given a couple more of the punchlines. Right. What else? Super
Bowl moment? I didn't watch the game this year, but so I for sure did and I was watching it at a party where it wasn't like a ton of people, so we could watch a lot of the commercials and stuff, like we did see the Beyonce commercial in the clean and so were you watching when? So you were not watching? Okay, so we were watching when she at the end. Let's just transition into this now. So we were watching where
at the end of the commercial. By the way, she did a very fun commercial and it was with Tony Hale. Surprised to me, I was like, she said yes to this? Not only does she say yes, she's drank a Celsius for she was excited to act.
She was excited to act and give comedy. But a lot of setups, a lot of costume changes, a lot of buy in for her. You had to imagine that she I wonder what the convincing was for her to be like, sure, I'll put on these pink kitten headphones and like type on a little gaming keyboard like Beyonce like as an image, as someone who is rightfully protective
of her image. So I'm like, I want to know what that conversation was to be, like be It's gonna be really funny and then Tony's gonna come in to your left and blah blah blah.
Anyway, the commercial I did see. I did consume the content in the right order, which was saw the Verizon commercial on Instagram because I was on Instagram during the game. And then she says drop the new music, and I go, what, Yeah, So I leapt out of my chair when she said that. It was during the Super Bowl, and by the way, at that point, the I believe the halftime show had happened, and so the game was kind of over for me at that point, because I will say the game was
extremely boring until I guess it got could later. But I had sort of bailed at that time because this commercial happened and she says they're ready drop the new music. So I leap out of my chair. I say what, I go to anywhere where. Let's just say someone like Taylor would immediately have shit ready, you know what I mean, Like you feel like you'd log onto Instagram and like it would be there. Beyonce was teasing us a little
bit because it wasn't immediate that things were upright. It became clear in the minutes after that moment what was happening. Like in piecemeal, we were truly like ravenous for it.
What an innovator though, Like she gives us that little window where we kind of go into a frenzy.
Well, I guess the whole commercial was like break the Internet, and I was like, Okay, well she just might with this one because I'm sure every person who cares is like, which that number must register in the millions, must be online like trying to figure out what the fuck is going on. So then you find out it's the country album. She's fully launching us into the era act too. Whether it's called Renaissance Act Too or if it's going to be like Act to some other name, we don't know.
We don't know much, but we know more than we did March twenty ninth. It is a country album. Two songs are out Texas Hold'em and sixteen Carriages Your Thoughts.
I was driving all day yesterday while you on the group chat were popping off with the rest of the girls about things, and my thoughts are Sixteen Carriages is kind of new ground genre a side, not even genre aside Daddy Lessons was kind of like the precursor to
all this, as we all know. But I think what's really interesting is to hear a thing about this time in her life in this sort of bittersweet balanced way, because either she's talked about her upbringing and like committing herself and making the sacrifices to become the star in a very bravado braggadocious way, as in like flawless or something and the.
Queen you can't touch me, You've I've been out, Would you stop now? Yeah? Like that hell energy.
Yeah, even like the diva officsoshraphear is like since fifteen of my Stiletto's like that kind of thing or sixteen I don't know what the exact age is in the song, but either it's bravado or it's like pure tragedy, as in like a pretty hurts where she's like knocking down the trophies, you know, talking about how like you know, like the things that we're ingreened in her growing up. This sixteen Characters to me feels incredibly like the third option,
which is it's amazing, it's also terrible. I don't know what life I missed. Also, now I can reflect on it as a mother, like I've got kids at home and I'm overwhelmed overworked as opposed to being underpaid and overworked when I was cool, all I.
Could think about when I first heard sixteen Carriages was how incredible this is gonna be live, just like the way that everyone's gonna be wailing and swaying to that song. Like I just I couldn't be more excited about the way these songs, both of them, are gonna play going forward.
Because I think with Texas Holdham, which I have not stopped listening to, is really taken the crown from Single Soon, But I have not stopped listening to it because I feel like it's like future comfort listening, you know what I mean, Like this is going to be one of those songs that's I think always gonna feel good and it feels really familiar, which I think is fine, And it feels like, you know, she put out this country song and like she's announcing this country era and so
a lot of people are having a lot to say about like how country it is, or like what it means or what it's indicative of. And what I would say is I was just like, yes, this is country, Like there's really some people out here being audacious enough to be like, well, it's not really country, Like I get what you're saying, Like it's you know, poppy enough to be played on pop radio. Who knows if country
radio will really embrace it. That has so much more to do with whether or not it's appropriate for country radio, and so much more to do with bureaucracy and bullshit and like the political nature of our times right now. What I digress. But for example, if Maren Morris recorded this and put it out, you'd be like, Maren Morris is back. That would be the headline, Maren Morris is back country. Like if Casey put this out, they'd be like, Wow, this is the most country Casey album in years. That's
what they put it out. It would be the whole thing. I feel like, because it's Beyonce, it goes through this filter of like how can we do right? And that is ridiculous, especially when you realize, like who's playing on this record, like Raphael Sadiq is on this record, Like look at her collaborators, like they all have like roots in this music, and like also like black culture has roots in this music. I mean, like like this music has roots in black culture rather. I mean, it's just
I understand. And I've engaged with some people who have said this thing, like oh, it's not really country. I'm like, what are you saying here, because there is that kind of country snob that's like, oh, it has to be certain instruments, it has to be certain, like you have to keep time a certain way, et cetera. I'm like, is this a snob thing or is this just like a knee jerk cultural reaction? And lo and behold, it
is a knee jerk cultural reaction. People are like, well, she's not even singing about like a dead dog or like a tractor. It's like not country. It's like, girl, please shut the fuck up. Like I don't think so, honey. This idea that a country song can't be about anything. Of course, it can be about anything. It's just us dial it's a genre.
Like she sort of sing song about a mom in a car accident where the baby's in the backseat or something.
Yeah, I mean Jesus Take the Wheel. They were they were looking for Beyonce to do a Jesus Take the Wheel cover, and producer Becca says the truth, which is real country is about grit and then is one hundred percent true. And I think that, Like another thing that's annoying is the Pitchfork review for this song, which did
you read this? Well? No, I just think they have to slow their role on this one because they go, you know, it is a little weird for Beyonce to be singing about like being like down home at a dive bar, like you can't really picture her there. It's like, well, that's what she did, break my soul. She was like, she doesn't have a nine to five stop. It's fine, right, And that's I guess the note that they have is like Beyonce singing about nine to five is lol. It's like,
can we just zoom out for a second. Artists don't have to be entirely one hundred percent autobiographic or truthful in their lear you know what I mean. Like, sometimes it's actually the job of an artist of a creator to create a fantasy, to create, you know, something livable for the people that the music is for, Like music is not always for the artists. It's not so they can go out on stage and they can live their
truth every night. Of course that exists, but also music is created for the listener, and that's what she is doing, and she's about her fans, and she's about that communal experience. So to review it in a way that immediately discredits her because you can't picture her in that environment, it's like, okay,
so what do you want Beyonce to sing about? Like this weekend, me and Jay hung out with a lot of our friends, A lot of them are venture capitalists and the Hamptons, Like, I don't think we want that
song everybody. I think I think it's okay that we're singing about like Beyonce having a fucking baller time, whether it's you know, the dance floor in a house sense or like the dive bar in a country sense, Like we should just be excited that Beyonce, who's prodigiously genius musical talent, is giving this kind of thing for everyone to embody and enjoy. It just feels like a really bizarre, bad faith criticism of her that really only she and people on her level would get anyway, Can I tell
you something I don't want? She cares well if people are like gay.
Keeping country, But I want to talk about the live aspect of what this album will be, which is I think you pointed this out offline, not picturing stadium tour. It's gonna be a sphere residency or something where it's like.
We go, well, those rumors are out there.
Well, I think those are valid rumors, and I think that is the setting that makes the most sense for an album like this, where it's like she's gonna park it in one place and then everyone else is just gonna go to her, rather than she's this traveling circus going from town to town.
You know what, I think. I think this is not really right because I feel like you are dead on about the parking it of it all. But something about the sphere, maybe that's like something down the road she's thinking like maybe if the third album is a rumored like rock album, or it's some sort of thing like maybe that's the sphere. Do you think rock album for the Sphere? Interested? I think so because that makes a
lot of sense to me. Whereas this album is so like she's she's made so many allusions to like, you know, obviously Texas already, and like you know, it feels very outdoors to me, Like it feels very like I can see this taking place outside, like it maybe she parks it in like Texas somewhere. Maybe she parks it in Atlanta somewhere, somewhere where I can feel very truthful to the roots of this music and also give that big feeling.
I don't know if it's the sphere. The sphere feels very cooped up to me, which obviously feels odd to say it, because you can create anything in there. But I just feel like I hear this music and I want to be outside. You think it's going to be like a lover fest situation, I do the festival that never was. I think Beyonce saw a lover fest and was like, well, start the pandemic now, because we need to make sure that's my idea. I think Beyonce Beyonce
started the pandemic. I started the pandemic. Wow, mess up the five G poles. Yeah, she said, hit the button. Hit the button. She's an illuminati. Go well, that that's a really interesting I think you're right about that about the outdoor of it.
All sure, totally after Renaissance Act one. I think she's like, I don't want to tour again for a minute. I want to stay in one place. I'm sick of these planes.
Yeah, it's weird, like to contrast her with Taylor, who I guess is just going to keep on doing this show. It's like, you know, I guess all we're getting from Taylor is the one new era, and she's going to keep doing the show, whereas Beyonce feels now completely moved on from Renaissance Act one. And this is sort of what I was saying about seeing Renaissance in concert, was it felt like this was just the chapter, whereas Eras felt very cumulative, cumulative, excuse me, And I feel like
that's proven to be true. Like will Beyonce do the same thing? Will she park it? We don't know, but either way it's going to be like a very very exciting new era. Becca has said if you saw any of her content of her being in Houston for the Renaissance tour where she was eating fried chicken from a local shop, Lol, Real Country is about grit. Oh Okay, so she's commenting on the grit of it all.
I think that was in response to like she wouldn't go to a dive bar oh oh, which not to compare them again, but if Taylor can write songs outside of her own experience and filter it through like a character, let's say, I don't really understand that argument that like Beyonce has to authentically write to her own life. So yeah, authenticity is dangerous and expensive and unreasonably applied.
I think there is an over analysis of these people in a way that's getting annoying and also is causing us to really spin our wheels. And I don't think it's necessarily our fault, like this thing about like, well,
what's the truth, what's real? Et cetera. It comes from the fact that it feels like there are very few very famous people right now, and I think obviously like that's always led to, like, at least on their part, like a fear of oversaturation, right Like I feel like Taylor in the past has been very conscious about oversaturating, but it feels like that consciousness is not active right now.
I think they're like the only famous people in the world, and that is leading to this fervor and discussion on them, which is ultimately gonna make us all crazy because it can't all be rooted in like truth or actual like what's really going on here?
You know what I'm saying, right, Like, even all the videos coming out of like Taylor and Travis after the game making out at a party, I'm like, I'm very valerie cherished about this. I'm like, I don't really.
Want to see that. I don't want to see that, you know, not out of a distaste for either of them, out of like a that shouldn't be for us. There is too much available to us right now, and I think that is okay. This is my honest opinion about it. I'm super excited about Tortured Poet's department as a fan of her music, I will say, it's a lot. It's the super Bowl, it's football at large. It's a new album, it's every old album. It's Capitalism, it's the Jets, it's the Bonuses, it's the economy.
It's this, it's that. It's Travis, It's Joe, it's Japan, it's everywhere in the world. It's Kelly Teller, it's Lana, it's Ice.
It's it's too much, and I think that it needs to well. I don't even know if it needs to slow down at this point because it doesn't feel like that's going to happen because we're about to get a new album and that's gonna be everywhere. I think it's probably good that so many of the girls are going to be releasing albums and there's going to be a lot going on, but with the tailor of it all, it almost just feels like the valve has not been released. Right.
Then you have to think is it on purpose? Like is it a conscious like total media takeover because she's aware of it. I mean, like she knows what happens when she goes to the Super Bowl and it ends up being the most watched telecast of all time. Like it's so much to the point where I'm like, is it a conscious oversaturation to launch herself into the rebirth of the reputation era? I wonder then I think, am
I insane for thinking it's that calculated? I think, well, not really, because this is the world we're living in and like this is it's the literally the narrative.
I don't think she wants to recreate the road to reputation necessarily, yeah, because that would mean that she would have to be taken completely down again, which I don't think.
But what does she think is going to happen at this level of fame? What does she think is the positive step from this? I guess that's my question, Like how exactly? And can I say the only reason I'm starting to call it out is because I started to recognize something unhealthy with the Travis and Taylor of it all. Because I remember there was a time in my life where I felt like I was at a ten and someone else was at a ten, and all of a
sudden it got out of control. And then all of a sudden, you're not at the super Bowl anymore, and you're not at the aerostoor anymore. Like, and what exactly happens in the months going forward? Because it feels like all of a sudden, you know, coming up for air here. Yes, it's very exciting to watch this, and they seem very in love, and I don't have any doubts that they are extremely in love. But is this all healthy? Is this all sustainable? Well?
I mean that kind of applies in all directions. I think there's no way out of them for this.
If they met each other and fell in fucking love and it just so happens to me that they are the two most famous people in the world at this point. He's winning the Super Bowl, She's Taylor Swift. You get it, you know what I mean? Like you see them kiss and stuff, and you see all the coverage of them, and it looks like, Wow, look at them on top of the world, living their best life. I guess I'm just saying, you know, in her own words, nothing good
starts in a getaway car. I do wonder about the fact that, like the Joe thing is just fully over, like this was the love of her life like two seconds ago. Like maybe it doesn't feel that recent because we move on so quickly, but like for years this was the love of her life. And now it's like, what about the relationship that she just had for a
long time? Like are we not respecting that? Like are we actually doing the thing where we're now in another album cycle that's like not even just about or inspired by that relationship, but deliberately manipulates and not to be like oh tailor you know, because I'm excited about what's going to be created for it. I just question whether or not all of this is healthy because of how big it is. I don't know if it's sustainable for a human being, you know what I'm saying.
Yeah, there's nothing in the the evolutionary human brain to like deal with this. It's just completely overwhelming and beyond any understanding. It's really weird. We're it a really weird time in the culture because I guess you could say that monoculture is back now with this, like in the last like ever since they started dating. I would say, we've had one thing to talk about this entire time.
Mm hmm.
And maybe that's what the grip is on, like don't let this go away. We don't know when we're going to get this back.
They are being talked about like a concept and not as human beings. I guess this is my thing, And ultimately, like, yes, I understand all that because we talk about pop culture, et cetera. We get the way that these things get filtered down to be something that can be like applied in the discourse. But I guess what I'm noticing, and what I'm trying to remember more is that they are human beings and so they're going to hit a wall
on this. I'm just concerned about, like what happens when people catch up with their feelings and catch up with themselves because they're operating at a fifteen right now and
everyone in the world is talking about them. Yeah, it just gives me a little bit of pause because I think I've been through certain things now where I realize like what happens when you're operating at a high vibration and then you have to come back And I just wonder how that feels or is going to feel for them and for the people in their life, because it literally can't get more exciting than the other day, like that is now done for some reason.
Both of their moms being there really was sobering to me. Yeah, I mean it was sweet.
It It's nice. I love that like they were with their family. Yeah, Travis Kelsey's mom is very grounding as a present, and I would say Taylor's mom Taylor's parents, And so I don't know if that makes me feel better or worse about the whole situation. And I'm like, well, she.
Has they have people who have known them for their whole lives with them to like check it against their history and their lives. But at the same time, it seems like the current and is so strong that everyone is getting swept up in it.
That's what I was about to say, Like those people are also operating in that environment. Yeah, you know what we have to check in with is Ice Spice. We got to check in with Ice Spice because I bet she has the She she's got the clear. By the way, they're saying, she was the reason for the radio they're calling it the Spicy Bowl. They're saying this was the reason for the more people watch this than the moonlanding. It because of Ice Spice. Absolutely. Well, you know I
heard that Ice Spice is staged. I heard that Ice Spice isn't real. No, no, no, I think she's real.
But I think she was in a sound stage and then in Long Island and then they just kind of like green keyed her in.
They put her in after Yeah, it was all fake. It was all fake. But you know, we're got a new music from Taylor. Can we talk about the titles really quickly? Of the songs, I'm interested to see what they sound like. But some of the titles, I go, you know what is ultimately a product of the current time, which is sort of beautiful and sort of the reason for her appeal, right, But if like.
For songs that are like LML down bad, but Daddy, I love him. I'm like, there's something consciously Internet coded about this. Yeah, and I wonder, I wonder if it pays off, because these are some big swings as far as names go, names of your songs. Whereas I think she's avoided, she's been able to sort of like operate outside of like a timeliness, and that's what makes her time less, That's what makes a lot of her music endure. This is I think, a departure from that. And I
think I have to imagine it's conscious. I have to imagine she made that choice. But I hope for everyone. But it's like, it better be good, is all I'm saying, and I'm sure it will be. I think it's gonna be very good because it's tailor swift. If I'm to gauge something from the visual in terms of like what I think this might sound like, you know what the visuals are giving to me. The visuals are giving to me very like mid nineties like almost adult contemporary vibes.
Like it's sort of giving me like Madonna bedtime stories. It's sort of giving me like, well, I don't know why am I getting like Paula Cole from it, like you know what I mean, like a very sort of adult contemporary like almost like like the way that she's like draped like it's something mid nineties. To me, it's feeling like Annie Lennoxy. That's the vibe I'm feeling from it.
I don't know beyond that, like maybe it's gonna be very like you know, lyrical, and like maybe it'll feel very ballady. I don't know, because the images I'm seeing are contrasting with the very contemporary titles. But yeah, it's it's an interesting thing to see her enter into the cannon anything now because she's now she's ridden the eras thing. Yeah, so that now when she's creating a new album, she's
really creating a new era. And so you have to look at these visuals like a world that we're going to live in. You know what I'm saying. It's like because that's her whole thing. And so when I'm looking at esthetically what we're getting from this, it feels like we're getting like mature woman confessional songs. Maybe we hear her sing with her chest a little bit more this time. That's like just a vibe I'm getting it's giving sort
of woman of the nineties adult contemporary singer. That's what I hope for Anyway.
I love that there are a couple ways for this to go in terms of the live piece, which is for now, this is what's happening, is that that's going to get absorbed into the era's sort of like structure. I'm really interested to see her for album twelve. Let's say, is it still going to be the Eras tour or is she going to do like the album twelve you know what I mean.
Yeah, it's a weird one. Also, like her music is fully gonna be out when she's still doing this tour, so she has to do the new music, right, Like is that an added era? Yeah? I think so wow.
I think it's gonna be after midnights or so well be like they're better be closers, you know what I mean on this album, because I think she has to end the whole show with it.
That's what I'm saying. It's like she's not just putting this album out. She's putting this album out at this moment in the tableau of the rest of her work. Yes, And I think that will say a lot about like where we're at exactly you know what I mean? Like also not for nothing, but I should just trademark not for nothing, as that comes out of my mouth for
the fucking billionth time. But she's also gonna have a lot of other music around her that the girls are releasing, like the new Ari will be out now we know the new Beyonce. They will be out, and I would imagine Dua's coming, Casey Miles Graves will have an album out. There's someone else too, Tylay.
Everyone's sleeping on, not everyone sleeping on if everyone obviously knows water, but like, listen to the other songs on the album. That is a great fucking album so far, so far. Anyway, Charlie's working on new stuff. God, I was working on new stuff. I think twenty twenty four is where the girls are all dumping their shit, which I have no problem with.
And Katie Perry has quit American Idol and said she's what are your thoughts as a huge now you have a special connection to Katie. Love Katie. I always root for Katie. I feel like never really over was what she should be doing. I want to hear Katie give the delicious hooks. I want to hear Katie be big and stupid. That's what I love from Katie Perry, big and stupid. Like what is it? Fast and loud? That's what I want from Katie Perry to put it in
the words of you and Tina Fey. Fast and loud, Katie, it always works. The thing I'm most excited about is Beyonce. I mean, we had been hearing about the country album. I think it feels so right. I love the way her voice sounds on this. Just to like hear her little stacked harmony is or her gorgeous voice over this type of music. It's gonna be so evocative. It's gonna tell stories like which she's so good at. I'm so
excited to see how this plays altogether. I'm really thrilled that it looks like she's pretty much you know, visual forward, Like right off the top, it feels like her approach to this is very different than the last album. It feels like if this is going to be part of a real trilogy, that's very exciting for whatever the third thing is. You know, we're living in a really, really
fun time for Beyonce. And I will also say she looks unbelievable, like her blonde wigs, Like, I don't know if you saw they cut to her at the game. You didn't see, you didn't watch. I did. She looked so unbelievably beautiful. And just the fact that Beyonce is gonna be giving blonde country singer wearing her boy's jewelry, I go, bitch, I love it. I love it, I love it. And I loved her sort of tipping the hat as it were at the Grammy's. She looked great.
She was on a fucking twenty milligram edible.
Yeah, she was on another planet in a very unseubtle look. I mean we should have known.
I feel like yeah. But also it was smarter for her to sort of build all that into the original Renaissance imagery too, because you're not really sure, you know what I mean, Like it's like, okay, so are you just sort of doing a version of what you've been doing for Renaissance with this cowboy dance floor moment or are we actually entering a new era? And it was squarely the latter, you know, I.
Think the fact three is rock. I feel like horses are that animal Horses work in any genre, Yes they do, and that's for the culture.
Number four. Yeah, genre and you know, happy Lunar New Year, by the way to everybody, Yeah you lunatics, you lunatics. I had deep conversations about the Chinese zodiac animals with some friends at Bubble Tea, New York.
Well for my horses out there. I was talking about Whittaker, our friend, Matt Whittaker. He was a horse who wanted to be a dragon growing up.
This is so beautiful. It doesn't sound like a little children's book. You know, our friend, he was a horse who wanted to wanted to be a dragon.
But horses, I was just ingrained from birth, from my mother who loves this, and from the Chinese culture that loves this, like horses are a noble animal, and horses endure, and horses know how to be still in between moments of movement and like action and like activation, like horses are. I'm not a horse girl. I've had close calls on horses. I don't love interacting with them necessarily. You've had close
calls on Oh yes, I've talked about Iceland. Oh yeah, you've spoken on this the drone, the drone spooked it. Oh yeah, no, I've spoken about this. But Anyway, the horse imagery that Beyonce is working with I think is very special and very intentional, and I think for that to be the through line potentially in these albums is gorgeous to me.
I think love. Uh now, let's just talk about what possibly could happen on this album. Do you think rape El Sadik? Wait, that's amazing that this is used to me. Oh yeah, by the way, everyone, Oh my god, rathel Sidik's old stuff. I mean not old stuff, but like just all of his work so good. We were we going to say, what is going to happen on this album? And you were going to put out something? Oh, I was going to say, you know, will we see the return of the Pussy Wagon? Oh? You think Gaga is
going to be on this? I'm just saying Beyonce said to be continued and Gaga said to be continued, and it was never continued. And you have to imagine if there's gonna be a moment for that. Should Joanne return? Should should Joanne return to ride off with Beyonce into the sunset on the Pussy Wagon? Like? Should we see in a sense act two of that? Ah?
Well, you know the video after Telephone that jonas Akerlind directed with Gaga was for John Wayne. So a lot of little monsters feel that John Wayne is the spiritual successor to Telephone in that she even like she's in the sort of like million reasons paining kick get up, and then like she like hitchhikes and gets into a car and then like the whole John Wayne saga starts. By the way, such an underrated video.
Oh, don't even get me stressing, don't even get me started on John Wayne. John Wayne is disrespected, disregarded and disinconstantly.
And guys, John Wayne is sitting right there. We're all losing our minds overact to Renaissance. Listen to John Wayne and go to church.
I just love John Wayne. I love John Wayne and the video. You're right, the video was completely insane. When she was riding on that horse, by the way, the horse returns and she hits that tree branch. I said, my comedy gold, I said, Bridesmaids, Bridesmaids.
So I don't know about this pussy wagon return, but that's so interesting the girls are talking about this.
I would disagree that John Wayne is the successor to tell Telephone, because they would have made it seem like it was a continuation, like there would have been some intentionality there.
The way that like the way that like the way that whole Gaga in jail thing plays at the beginning of Telephone as a continuation of Paparazzi.
Yeah, I just feel like we would have we would have gotten something from it that like that like suggests that it was a continuation of that narrative outside of just being directed by the same person and having the same whimsy. Like if we're going going to see in that two of that, I think it's gonna have Beyonce, and I think it's gonna be very clear that it's like the continuation of sequel to culmination of that story. By the way, can we talk really quickly about Gaga
at the super Bowl like this past week. I just I forget that Gaga at a sports game is such a I don't give a fuck vibe. It has been for decades at this point. Remember when she was like during like the Fame Monster era, she was like at Yankee Stadium, like flipping people off, like just not careing. She's like, don't she loves sports?
She doesn't, And she's gonna kick back and she's gonna wear something stupid and she's not gonna care.
And I love that. We need the culture. Really Coachure number seventy. Lady loves sports and she's gonna catch to give back and she's gonna not gonna care period, But like we need we need more of that.
Like I love seeing the stars out, but all of them were like playing for the camera in a way that like Gaga wasn't. She was like, I'm gonna put on the little eye jewels that like are a reference to my super Bowl performance, which we regret. I have to take responsibility for this. I did not include in my twenty seventeen year coverage.
Take responsibility for your self self, because no one's gonna take responsibility for you. Take you, Tyra.
But Gaga at the super Bowl loved Okay, So what else on Act two I'm open for. I'm just open minded. I don't really have expectations in a way that I think is not for lack of caring. It's just that like I will openly welcome whatever comes.
Well. Then there was another little rumor floating around that maybe Taylor is on this album, or maybe Beyonce is a part of reputation and I said, hmm. I don't know.
I had to say hmm on this one in both directions. That doesn't make sense again, like this.
Narrative that gets out there because it feels like they're the only famous people in the world, you know what I mean, Like it is exhausting. Sure, well, let's it's just not not contribute. Well no, no, no, I was just I was gonna say, let's not pay too much attention to it. I'm literally looking out at a mountain ridge right now, and what everything feels so far away? Where are you? I'm upstate, bitch. You didn't tell me
that you thought this was my room at home. I thought you were doing one of your famous vacations at like a New York hotel. No, honey, I mean New Pults. Are you having a moment, I'm having so far.
Well, it snowed, and so I want to be on hikes and stuff, and oh my god, there was a water color class today that got canceled because of the snow.
You're going to take a water color class. I was going to take a water color class and paint flowers. Oh, that sounds really good. And every morning you get to feed the chickens and the pigs and the sheep here and then you get to pick the eggs that you want to eat for breakfast. Wait, that is a I'm so happy for you. Oh Bowen, that's so great. I love that. I love that you went to the woods, you went to the mountains picking your eggs. I went so egg and the I just like my body immediately
gave out it. I was like, oh my god, here's what you do. Everyone.
If you want to scratch this itch of like seems like we're getting back into like cabin cabin tunes, maybe go to Waxahachie.
Now.
Listen to her new songboard, listen to right back to it, listen to her old stuff. I mean, you're gonna get what you want and the totality of Waxa Hatchi's discography. You're gonna find something you like. I guarantee you're gonna like to hear you go. My therapist said this to me. We were talking about like internet discourse, right and specifically like in the way that like you might have a moment of vanity or vulnerability and like see what people
are saying about you. And we don't have to get too much into this, but this is what he said to me. I'm flipping to it because I wrote it down because it fucking blew my mind in the totality of what people are thinking, you can always find what you're looking for.
Does that make sense? Not? Really? Can you?
Like you go on Google and like see what people are saying about one person, or let's say yourself, or you go on Twitter and if you have a name that you can like search such as mine or yours, let's say, and see what people are saying about you. At some point you'll find exactly what your brain secretly wants to find.
Oh, I get that. Okay. So if you want to feel, if you want to punish yourself, if you look hard enough or sometimes not even hard enough, like enough, got it? Okay. So it's all about like taking the onus away from needing that search.
It just means that it's all meaningless. It really is meaningless. Can we talk about feud Capodi versus the Swans?
Yeah? I wish it was better.
I don't necessarily want to talk about the show. But what I the rabbit hole that I fell into was like reading up on the journalism of it, and like they did a whole piece in twenty twelve and anity Fair about like where the manuscript is for answered prayers and his relationship with like Lee Radsville and Jackie Kennedy, and like it's so interesting that is like that's what we're missing, that this is what's happening in culture. This
is what I thought about. Like there's no distinction or difference between like high society in the way that like the rest of the culture is fascinated by these people at the top and what their behavior is and what they're doing and what their dirty secrets are with entertainment and like things in the pop culture, because we conflate those two now in a way that we're like, oh, well, high society is let's say the met gala where all the celebrities go, and like high society in the U
twenty twenty four or is like the Kardashians, because we don't really care, Like the way billionaires are acting is kind of too dark to think about and too crazy, so let's just focus on like these famous people who are like very much entrenched in media, and therefore there
is like less of a like fascination. The fascination is just a little bit more informed as opposed to like the days of Truman Capodi in the sixties and seventies, where like him dropping this Esquire article was like explosive.
Does that make sense? Yeah? And I actually think it's kind of showing up in the content of the series in a way that I don't think is necessarily good because I think that there's actually not that much of
a feud here, right. I think what happened was this man befriended these women, he was awful, he wrote about them, and then they never spoke to him again, and there's not a feud there, like, and I think that like what you're saying about, like the fascination of that is like, yes, very important, like in the culture and like it probably felt ripe, but it's actually not that much. There's just not that much there. And I feel like with Betty
and Joan, there was actually a genuine feud there. There was stretched on for years in years, there was a lot to follow, Whereas I almost think that feud Capodi versus the Swans would be stronger if it was like Truman Capodi and Babe Paley and we just focused on one dynamic because I feel like it's over promising and saying like you're gonna watch this juicy show with all of these women when there's not that much juice there. Yes,
they were all dynamic people. They were all interesting, fascinating people that had scandal, but ultimately this dynamic which is Capodi and them, like at least the three episodes at this point, like, it doesn't feel like there is a lot there when you compare it.
I think it's going to do what Feud Betty versus Joan ended up doing, which was these two women really missed out on a friendship, didn't they, you know, And I think it's going to try to do that with Babe Paley and Truman Capodi by the time like when he passes away.
Yet I'm sure that you're right, but I wonder if it's going to be super successful because the thing about Feud Betty and Joan is they weren't able to flesh them out enough where you realize they had so much more in common than they had in terms of differences, and it was really society and the entertainment industry and their specific situation and the fascination with the idea that women must war if they're equals that tore them apart.
Whereas like, I'm not seeing exactly what that parallel is with this because Truman Capodi is truly just awful, and there are so many women that are on the other side of this conflict that are not all grounded and based in this experience with him, and so it's becoming a little bit more difficult to see exactly what the story that's being told is and exactly what the conflict is between them and him, because it's they're all different, and therefore, in trying to give all the women like
equal time, in a way, we're losing a central conflict.
Yes, I agree, I think the thing that binds these people together is well for Truman.
I think I think this is hopefully.
What I don't think the show is making clear yet is why Truman is obsessed with these women, which is because he sees a parallel in them, where he's this boy from the South who like made his way to the top infiltrated high society much in the same way
that like hollygool Lightly did. Like hollyga Lightly was written as based on women like Slim Keith, like Babe Pailey, like CAZy Guests and Woodword, particularly where these women from the South who came from nothing ascended all the way to the top in this very American dream way, right, And I think that is sort of the poetic, sort of powerful, narratively interesting thing that I don't think the show is really shining enough of a light on.
I have hope that it will, because I think that it has to like this idea that like, well, you guys did whatever you had to do to get here, I'm doing whatever I had to do, Like you love me because of my ability to tell stories and my ability to entertain and my ability to really key in to what your experience is. So why are you angry at me for then using that to maintain my level my place here and my level of notoriety when you
knew that was what I do. That is like a crazy personality disorder that I think that they need to explore. But the thing is, like, in that third episode of the show, So Demi Moore, actually who's great in the show, has this scene where she as Anne Woodward like comes and crashes his black and White ball and he kicks her out, and it's very public and very embarrassing, and you know, ultimately she's so outcasts from society that she does take her own life and he's you know, really
responsible for that is the argument that's being made. But the thing is he's such a cunt to her. Yeah,
and the writing of that scene is also tough. But I was like, he's such a fucking monster to this woman that I'm like, how moving forward are we supposed to like really want to understand or truly understand this person, like when he's ruining these women's lives, Like they'd have to really do some work here in order to make him not even just sympathetic because I know that's not the goal, but grounded in a reality, and you know, ultimately,
like he was grounded in reality, he was real. So I guess I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop in terms of the humanity of the whole thing, so that I can really find the conflict and understanding and the why of this series. I'm not sure what the why of the series is.
Yeah, I would recommend because I'm watching the show and I'm going I want to dig deeper and i want more than what the show is capable of giving me at the moment, and so I recommend, just like reading up, I didn't know all this shit about I didn't know that Aristotle Onnasis was with Lee Radswell at first? Did you know this that like Jackie basically stole Aristotle Nassis from Lee?
So where's that suit? Then? You know what I mean? Like where's Jackie and Lee? Like you know what I'm saying. It's like, let's ground this in an actual feud that is playable.
Mm hmmm, where the fallout from the conflict is not like no one talked to each other exactly.
I mean, like we know how it ends. It ends in silence. And also if the show is showing so early on that he becomes a miserable alcoholic like spoiler alert, that is how he dies. So we're not even getting there, we're kind of there. And even just that thing you said right there, like I didn't know that that's juicy.
Literally Lee was with Aristotle, they were date, they were fucking for like a period of time while she was still married to Stas. Ratsville invites Jackie to come on this yacht that Aristotle has. The second she's on the gangplank, Aristotle's like I want her Yep, crazy, I did not know.
That's completely insane and also something I'd like to watch, you know what I mean. And then you have one of these actresses playing Jackie Kennedy, you know what I mean. Not to say that like all these women aren't interesting, but it's almost like the show is doing a disservice to them by treating them like like one sixth of a situation.
You know what I mean, right, I mean, there's all this stuff about there's so much reading about Babe Piley. Yeah, I mean, it's all very fascinating and as always, reading is in a lot of ways fundamental, fundamental in the more informative medium if you want information, and I just wanted information. I was literally at dinner last night by myself and just brought my iPad with me and just like read every article there was, and I was like, I'm having a ball, Yeah, just read it.
And therefore the show ends up being very useful. And also, you know, but then I'm thinking, as you're talking and as we're like, you know, talking about this, I'm like, this show, if it's about the gay male gaze on women,
that is really interesting. And the fact that he dehumanized his friends enough to create them into characters because he knew that, you know, the average person in his mind would want to hear and devour everything that is the scandal of being these women if he was thinking them as primarily fodder and scandal before they were human beings, because that was his sick gay male gaze on women.
Something they talk about in the first episode or second episode, like you know, this is the way gay men think about us. They think about us like this, this, this, like that is really interesting, you know what I mean that there's something there, because I think there's something very true about that that gay men in idol worship participate in. Like it doesn't always happen with super famous people. It
happens with the women in gay men's lives. Like sometimes I hear the way that gay men talk about women and I'm like, wow, she is not a person to you, right, And it happens a lot during the Oscar race, and it happens a lot during like times like this when like women are you know out here as these like concepts and things and ideas, like there is a humanity that gets lost, which sort of ties it back to the tailor of it all where you do have to
remember that these people are human beings and if that is something that we're going to arrive at in feud then I think it's really interesting and I'm really excited to get there about how he lost permanence on this situation and on humanity because he was too gay, not too gay, period. End of sentence. You are a humanist icon down, you are a true humanist. Got it from my mama, got it from my mama. On my mind, I got it from mama.
Congrats Victoria, congrats Victoria really quickly. There is a truth to that, to the gay mail gaze, and I think the reflection on that is something and another Lee Radswell thing, which I think Alicia Flockhart is good casting for her.
I think she's great at that aside, I was reading up on like Lee's relationship with Trumany because like she wasn't terribly pissed off at him after the Esquire article, after Cooke Basque, but like Truman asked her to speak on his behalf in a deposition when Gourvidal sued Truman Capote in like I think the seventies or eighties, because Truman was out here running his mouth lying to people
saying that Gorvidal was thrown out of a Kennedy white House. Dinner, and Gorevidal was like, I'm suing you for slander, and so Truman was desperate, was like, can we please get Lee to say to who was there? Can we please get Lee to say something in my favorite? Lee refused, yeah, and then.
Forget who it was.
But like someone was like, but Lee, why, like why won't you get involved in this situation? Like you could really help change this? And then Lee Radswell allegedly says, oh whatever, there are just two fags anyway, just let them do their thing. And so like it goes both ways, and that is an interesting thing where they're like, however dehumanizing the gay meal gaze is like it is refracted and reflected the other direction as well.
I would love a show about that. Would love that, And I like, maybe it will get there, you know, maybe it will. Because also another thing is like, was there dismissal of him in some way homophobic? You know what I mean? Like I don't know, because like he genuinely was that awful, but like there is some As I watched the show, I'm like, it is so interesting. He's like very foppish, he's very feminine. He's presenting in this way and like he is sort of like this
like gesture. So in a way, it wasn't like he was being super respected. He was a prop in all of these women's lives in many ways, like you know, they can use language like that they go home to their husbands. Not to say he wasn't in a relationship, because we see that he was, but there's something there too.
There's something in the fact that you know, homophobia was rampant at the time, and you know, he was not looked at like a real member of that society, right if he didn't have these like you know, trades like conversation and gossip.
Well, his whole defense in the years after or the article was that like, well, what do these women think. I'm a writer, I'm not there to just entertain them. I'm observing and I'm using this stuff. And I'm like that is interesting. You don't know if you fully agree with that. But also I do see that as a pushback on him being him feeling the perception that he was just the court justter.
Yeah.
Yeah, anyway, I just think that the story of Truman Capoti is incredibly, incredibly interesting, like really fell down that hole in a way that I didn't.
Expect Well, have you ever read in Cold Blood? I never read it. You should. I mean, it is as good as everyone says like it is. So it really started true crime, to be honest, Like if you can really trace like the lineage of that genre to that, and I think I just remember some. He really was an incredible writer.
And.
The interesting stuff that comes after Capodi, when he's done this like master work and that has to decide what to do next, is sort of what led directly to
this situation. And so it's almost best told altogether, and I believe the best depiction of that is probably in the movie Infamous, not even in the movie Kpodi, but those are both really interesting because this period was very fascinating, and writing in Cold Blood did take so much from him, and I almost feel like there's some threads there that aren't being connected in this yet, but again I have hope.
I'm sure they'll do, because his relationship with that murderer was very interesting and special, and I think that had a very dark effect on him because he watched him getting hanged. Yes he did, and so that is something Nick Dick Kickock. No, there was Perry and Dair, So Perry was the one he was you know, some people think maybe even in love.
With Yeah, yeah, yeah, they have to do something with that in the show. Yeah. Again, like if they're going to, they have to also juggle the fact that they've got a lot of fucking characters. That's another thing is it's just like there's only so much real estate to tell those stories. But also they're not being told yet, like this third episode, which is entirely like it's like a it's like a creative swing they take where it's like a documentary about the Black and White Ball that was
never actually made. Yeah, right, And and then I was like, wait, so he actually did film this? And I guess is this based on actual footage or is this all conjecture? There was no documentary that followed him around, Like there was no crew that followed him around, but like so this is a thing. Yeah yeah yeah, Like and what word did not show up? Right? So that's entirely I mean, And again, like I thought that scene was like juicy
and great because Demi got to sort of tear. But I mean, I don't know are people watching this, Like, as we're talking about this, I genuinely ask our audience, are people watching this are you guys watching food?
I think they're doing a good like cross promotion on like for some reason, like diet Prada posts about it and I'm like, okay, work like they really know their audience. They're like, let's let's send it up to all the fucking faggot Instagram accounts where everyone gets their news.
Where do you go get their news? Yeah? There you go? Actually you know I am I don't think sohney. Okay, yeah, should we do it? Should we move in? Should we get into it?
Let's move into it? Yeah, this is I don't think so honey. This is where we take one minute to really reel against something in culture.
Matt has Matt sort of lit up.
I wish you could see over the zoom. There's a twinkle in Matt's eye, and I think twinkler. I think we're about to hear why this is Matt Rogers. I don't think so many as time starts now.
I don't think so honey. Trying to watch Trade after having watched Traders Australia, I actually have to say this has been done at a ten at a ten, and luckily you can watch it. It is Traders Australia. Because we have everyone in the room is playing at full capability. Whereas now I'm starting to see, after watching this game played really really well, that the current Traders US cast is not giving that level of competitive mastery of this
particular game. Now I'm starting to think, should we maybe go back to an all normy cast? But we just cast it really really well. I think what didn't work about the first season is it was half and half. And what's starting to not work about the second season is you get the sense that not everyone is there with a full knowledge and necessarily even intent to play this game to its fullest. It's kind of just like reality TV stars doing Reality TV star, which is fun,
but is it competitive and is it compelling? I don't know. I don't think so, honey, but of course I do. And that's one minute.
I totally get it because I'm interested to hear your ranking. But I'm finally finishing up Traders UK season one, and I would say great season of all normies and they were all not operating at like top of their intelligence and competitiveness, but they were all like pretty with it, and they were like they had their rationale for everything.
And I really enjoyed that part. It does seem like this season of Traders, which we love, I love, is like, you go, well, why are Kevin and MJ there, Like what are they bringing?
And the thing is like, it's just hard to compare them because I'm telling you, you guys watch Traders Australia on Peacock. What's your ranking of the seasons? Oh, Traders Australia is one of the best. The one that they have on Peacock is one of the best reality seasons I've ever seen. Okay, it is so satisfying, It is so compelling to watch. Every minute it gets better. It's
just so good. Whereas Traders US, I'm kind of like, I feel like we could be watching something a little bit more compelling if we had people that were a little bit more knowledgeable and just a little bit more ahead of how this game is played. Where does the UK one land in the ranking? I would say Australia's number one, the least the one I've seen. Then then I would give it to US season two. Then I would give it to UK season one, and at the
bottom is US Traders season one. But and that's not talking about it, It's just that I think we were working the kinksgar with the way that it was cast. So you think that so far US two is better than UK one, Yeah, I do, just because at that level, that's where the reality TV start of it all pays off. I mean, like, I mean, we do have Parviti and Phaedri, Like, don't get me wrong, Like that is pretty fucking epic
and there's so much fun in that. But just if what you want to see is a really competitive game of Traders be played, you're not getting that on US season two the way you're getting in on the Australian version. And you will be happy that you took me up on this if you stream it the UK too. Apparently was one of the biggest ratings hits in the UK. Yeah. I don't know about ever, but like it was a huge, huge success and people loved it. Yeah, which is funny
because Australian Trader season two apparently flopped. Oh really yes, and it actually wasn't even renewed in Australia. Ah yeah, tragic, I know. Well, something about Joel Kimbuster was telling me that, like Australia, the casting is normans, but they all have like kind of crazy pat like one of them is like the first person to like murder someone, the first.
Person was the first ever murderers, ever murderer.
What it is is one of the people on Traders was the longest held hostage in like Australia hostage. That's what it is. Yeah, and now he's a hostage negotiator and you'll see how that plays out. But another one is another one is a psychic clairvoyant named Clea. I love it. There's just so many characters like stars on the show, and like you didn't need for one second
any of them to be famous, you know what I mean. Like, and I think that there's something that's so great about you know when you see on the outset the cast of us season two of Traders. But then it's like inevitably they do get eliminated, you know, the people that you were super excited about, like aren't there anymore, which is always the risk you run on an all star cast. It's like, okay, well you're gonna run out of like your faves, right, And so now we're fucking watching Kevin. Yeah,
Like we're watching a lot of Kevin. You know what I'm saying, We're watching a lot of I'm Peter you know what. And I'm like, here's my things. You watch you watch Australian Traders, and then you you watch the season of US and you realize Peter's not gonna win, like he's actually playing bad.
What's not fun? And again, we love this show more than life obsessed. Watch the second it's out.
My thing about Peter and Trachelle is that, like, God, they're so hard to root for. God, you really don't care, you know what I mean? That is so true, And that is more on not the casting.
It's just more on like the way these people who have been on TV before, I think they know how to like get ahead of the editors.
I don't know. It's like I would rather just see people who were clairvoyance.
Hostages, like people with like compelling lives really really play well.
That's very interesting. Can you imagine rooting for Peter like I don't know, Maybe it's the batchelor of at all. I'm not rooting for anyone from the Bachelor. I'm not rooting for the Bachelor to win anything. I still I'm still rooting for Poverty. Feels like she's in way too much of a corner. I think days are numbered for our Girl's still a lot of fun. Go Sandra, Go, Sandra doing the pool table math.
I loved I lived, Yeah, I love Activated CenTra. I mean it's the best activated Santra.
So Bowen Yang, do you have an out of think so honey? I do, all right, this is Bowen Yang's I don't think so honey, and his time starts now, I don't think, so honey.
Performers who miss their center mark on an led floor, such as Usher, such as I'm sorry Beyonce sometimes who has had a history of missing her mark when the floor is a screen. Taylor is kind of better at it than a lot of people. But you know who nailed it was her at the Super Bowl.
Her knew her to land. And can we just set a mark for these people?
They deserve just a little mini mark that like we at home can't see, but just something that lets them know to land at the right spot so that it looks like there's ripples coming out of them, so that it looks like they are seen stuck in the outline of their body. Let's deliver on the promise of the premise. Let's make sure these people are set up for success.
I want them to have the best night of their lives performing while they're walking around stomping on a screen floor or LEDs give the technology so that they know where to land.
And that's one minute. Well, first of all, I want to say, the episode title is the promise of the premise, and I just can't. I go back to my central theme for this episode, which is humanity. These people are humans. They can't just hit every mark because you say of Owen Yang, I'm not that. I don't think some money is not on them.
It's on the production of it all. It's on the people who are like, let's set a mark for usher. Let's set a mark for these people to know where they land. I'm not blaming Beyonce for missing where she was supposed to lay down and pose.
Mm hmm, I'm huge. But you did say with your chest, tailor is a little bit better at it. You said that with your chest. As a point of comparison, you need to let go of say that with your chest. By the way, you're saying chest and everyone turns off the pod. No, everyone. You should be so lucky to hear Matt Rodgers saying who cares? Yeah, I hear you, I hear you. People need to be hitting their marks. The super bullets, the biggest, the set marks better. How
are you with hitting marks? I'm it's hard. I don't is hard.
Deny that it's very difficult. But if you're dancing, you can like peep at the floor like I think ushers should be at the center of the concentric circles. That's all I'm saying, and that I'm gonna put that on the team that goes we're using an led floor. We're gonna do all this ship and make it look cool. We'll then make it look cool, make sure the person is in the right spot.
And that's on the team.
I'm just blaming it on the production. And that's not even towards people. That's towards the idea. That's towards the checklist that's being made. Yeah, put that on the checklist.
Put it on the checklist. And I'm sort of over here being like God, human beings they miss marks. I'm understanding, concerned, Queen. I'm understanding concerned Queen two.
But I think if we want to deliver on the promise of the promise, then we should set the mark.
Girl, is the promise of your premise that you're gonna go frolic in the mountains right now.
It's cold, it's snowy. I'm gonna read, I'm gonna eat a burger.
I'm gonna that's beautiful. I'm writing that's beautiful. Tomorrow I'm gonna like tomorrow. Okay, yeah, Well, this has been an episode that fully delivered on the promise of the premise of this podcast, which is culture and laughter, friend friendship and friendship. Because I never, for one second during this podcast had any doubt that I was talking to my
best girl and me neither. We end every episode with the song the same test and now hold up, it's pret no, no, no, don't her loan notes, I said you better you better Bye.