"The Ol' Bait And Suck" (w/ Rose Dommu)

to be continued on that one there. All I can say is I must be in Los Angeles and the reverberations of the Golden Globes must be in the air because it's drama in the apartment when I couldn't get my zoom to work. And I must be in New York where we had the Rainbow Room, which was by far the hotter room between the two coasts. Okay, we can actually get into it right now because Amy Poehler was looking absolutely stunning. Oh um, And and Tina, Tina

is glamor sold her soul years ago. Who's old your soul? You don't go from writer's room, SNL do not No, no's not Glamazon. That's not without some agathe All along, there was some episode no, no, honey, don't do this. I'm saying that. This is what I'm saying that trash had some glamor. I didn't trash. I didn't trash. I didn't trash. There wasn't deal with Yeah, that's exactly what Hollywood is all about, Honey, years ago, Honey, you made

it before you even left the wound. God, damn, goddamn right. I made a deal with the devil because I knew exactly what industry I was getting into, and I knew it from birth. So I made my deal with the devil long ago. You think I just looked like this. We were on two separate tracks because I thought you were gonna bring up how that whole broadcast was a train wreck, which it was. I thought. I did not think it was a train wreck. And that's you reading Tina and Amy. I'm not reading. That is not a

read on Tina Amy. That is a read on there the host. That means they're in charge of the podcast, don't you know, don't you know anything're calling cuts. They were the ones who wanted that those crazy ass bumpers where that you had all all nominees in the same zoom being like HI made those calls. They were calling the cuts as you say, what what do you have to say about Amy? Keep going and the whole time about I'm just saying she looked incredible and Amy didn't

make a deal with the devil? Is that what you're saying? They both made deals with the devil? I'm just saying Amy's it feels just a little bit more recent, That's all. I don't know. I don't know about any of this stupid horror. Oh. I was commenting on it, the fact that we know that Tina is sort of glamour, like she's sort of been glamour, you know what I mean. And Amy has been a beautiful blonde woman her whole career. Like,

what are you trying to say transformation? I don't I'm just saying it became apparent last Nights Glamor in a way that wallopped me. I was like, oh my god, Amy is glamour tonight. I wasn't surprised, Simmer surprised ever to see Tina arrive and be glamour, because I feel Tina is glamour, yes, but both of these people have had people they pay or who are who picked out closed for them as well. You understand. Yeah, but you know who else gets close picked out for her, Margot Robbie.

And that didn't stop her at showing up in the fucking whatever that was last night. Our guests just rolled her fucking eyes because she knows that's the biggest drag of them all. Margot Robbie was there for what did she resent? A major award at the Hollywood Foreign Press Association's Golden Global Okay, I don't know about any of it. She looked like she came from I think Rose even said the word reformation. The word reformation jumped out and she's and she's and she's covering her mouth. But we

don't know. She doesn't exist yet, okay, because she hasn't been yet. I haven't checked in with you, I think since last week. I not checked him with you in a while. I've missed you very dearly. Oh but we we didn't ide you live together. It's very fun. We touched space, um, and that was really that was a really fun time. It was a highlight of the week. And I am revealed to you that I'm depressed. But

that's okay, you know, um, that is okay. Yes, and yeah, and and thank you for saying, now you can take a little break. If I am the new face of depression, I mean, sign me up. Can I say something to you? Yeah, you don't look depressed? That is okay, good, good, very good. I don't know what now that might be controversial because does depression have a look. I was going to ask you, but what about me doesn't make me look depressed? Skins popping off your hair is a beautiful curl you look like.

Can I say something? Yeah, you look like you've had sex. I have not had sex. You have. I have not had sex out there? This no, I have not. This is what is this crazy entered you are bringing in? I just want just because I'm not reticent and I'm willing to sort of just go with the flow. And I'm not a caged bird like you. You're caged. You're caged. I just watched I just watched. Let's just say this. We can We're not gonna talk about it, but I just watched. I just watched a film called I Care

a Lot, and I'm all fired up. All I will say, but I care a Lot. I have not seen it. I hear I hear things about it. I thought Rosman Pike speech was bonkers wild, and I was like, what the fuck? She was like thank you to the broken American economy or whatever American legal system, and I was just like, what is what is this? This woman clear?

And I thought back, like, gone, girl, Maybe that was great casting because I was like, there's there's there's there's something amiss there with with that, well, more on this next week, more on this next week. That's It's what we call a teaser to be continued. To be sure, I'll have I'll have seen it by then. Um, what else did I want to say? Oh? Um, just finished Nomad Land today, really love Did did did you watch it? I?

That's on my list. I you know what I'm gonna watch tonight is the United States Versus Billy Holiday because of andre Day's surprise big W. Last that was that was the big W And then um, we did reveal to people on the live the moment, which which I thought was very would be only shared between you and I for the rest of our lives. But the moment of you and I meeting Mulan I have caught in the China pavilion and her saying to us said, would you like me to say? I would like you to

say it. Okay, this is what she said to us, and this is not made up. A lot of people I e BO and are saying this is made up, that she didn't quote unquote say like that. But this is what she did. Dave Bowen and myself, we're given the opportunity to lan and take a photo with her at the Reflections of China Pavilion. Yes, we went in met her, lovely girl. Simply she asked us to take

a combat position with her for the photographer. The photograph I've been talking about, which very suspiciously we can't find. I had my thoughts your phone. Anyway, moving on from that conversation because it will get too heated. And here's what happened. We took the photo. She turned to us and said the following, you will be amazing warriors. You will be amazing warriors. So I'm gonna lose it. You are gaslighting me. You are gaslighting And we were we were going to work a word for it. Now we

were stop. We were so stoned out of our minds. So that's when you that's when things that's when since memory really hits. Oh my god, I don't know a fool. You're a fool. Okay, you know what, Let's bring our our warrior in. And she is a warrior. She is a warrior. She is a warrior for the culture. This is someone whose opinion. This is not putting you know, this is not sort of davifying her too much, But this is someone whose opinion I always always want. I

always want her take on something. I'm always saying this whenever I read the opinion, I'm saying, yes, yes, yes, um. I think she is truly a vital, vital, vital presence for the culture I have. I have a deep respect for anyone who would sort of look into the eyes of Timothy Charlotte May and say, how does it feel

to be king of the Twinks? You don't understand. You think you're going to be brave enough to do it, but then you get into the position of it, and very feel would feel she is one of the few, and asked him if he or I think I think I somehow Moonstruck came up and we got out of Timothy show me that he loves Moonstruck and his own accord. He said, oh my god, amazing. I don't know if I trust him on that one. I think he heard the word shared almost like moonstruck. I think that's kind

of what happens. But I'm happy that I believe that he enjoys it. Um iconic interviews with Samahayak with a cast of Wine Country just so well, we'll ask her her opinion. Um. She used to be a senior staff writer at Out magazine. Now she works in editorial at Netflix. We are so excited to have her. Oh everyone, please welcome Rose. Hi, Hi, It's so nice to be here. Um. Hopefully this finally gets me verified on Instagram? Come on, what the hell is? Did you? Transphobia? Would absolutely aboutely

what because like, I don't understand. I think Instagram is starting to turn into Twitter where it's like the verification criteria are all over the place and I don't know. It's like Rose, damn you is like you need to give her that blue check. It's telling to me that you aspire to blue check hood thank you. I do think it is toxic that it's something that I aspire to. I'm not calling it out. I'm not calling it out, but you aren't you? But no, I would say it's

an iconic first line on the podcast, thank you. I hope this gets me verified on Instagram. I think, to me, that's that you are without peer as far as first lines go. I mean, it's the reason I'm here. You know I'm here. And I do want to talk about the SNL to being a hot pipeline because the because the reason I'm finally here today is because I d M Bowen and told him he looked hot in a

photo and photo, um, your photo, your Christian Cohen photo. Yeah, all of a suddenly he gets in Christian cow and ship, you know what I mean, and said you look hot, and all of a sudden, I'm being invited to record less culture. It's interesting. That's not the that's a correlation. It's not causation or whatever it is. I don't know about this. All I'm saying, look, and now you're going to try to like pivot, but you can't deny there

there is an SNL to being hot pipeline. We've seen it happen Kristen Wig all of a sudden, you know, not not she probably was always stunning, but now she's like publicly stunning. You know what I'm saying, you're publicly stu. What I'm saying is that all I'm saying is that Bowen is hot. That's very nice. We can deal with that here. We can't deal with every with everyone else here, but we can deal with Bowen being hot here in

this episode. I I just want Rose to to say, once and for all, did A Tena and Amy sell their souls as the Devil? Um? I can't business affair. There's a conflict of interest, and honestly, the Devil has QUI okay, okay, okay, I talked about contracts. Um no, Well listen, the Devil's all up in it lately. Because you'll notice that there's lots of witchcraft happening on one division.

And I am actually most thrilled you are here because of course, yes, and we've had we've had months of sort of witchcraft like looming in the background because Taylor Swift is sort of she's peeling back the layers that are sort of revealing that all along, if you will, she's been kind of a witch and now she's got like I think it was it probably was you who said fucking um Cardigan Agatha all along remix, which I thought was a great tie in because the Devil is

very present and a lot of media happening because witchcraft is president and a lot of people want to sort of separate witchcraft from the devil, but they're actually intimately intertwined. We are the granddaughters of the witches you didn't burn, should have, should have took care of us in the beginning.

I'm I'm really happy that witchcraft is back in the cultural zeitgeist because I definitely identify as a witch and witchcraft was very formative to my um cultural consciousness and remains so to this day, and so I'm really excited to see it in you know, Wan Division. In a lot of we have a lot of like witchy Lili Fair adjacent musicians right now. I'd been to Phoebe Bridgers lately,

like fucking everyone, um and um. I think that's one of the things that I appreciate the most about One Division is that, like the m c U has always been kind of unwilling to be fully magical and not like, oh yeah, they're just sucking witches. Witch. Hi just jumping in here to say that if you do not want spoilers for One Division, if you're not caught up, you can go ahead and skip to twenty and then from there on out there's really not that much revealed, all right.

I just wanted to check in before we absolutely spoiled one division, which is starting now. Yeah, and what do you So there's been some response to I guess after the reveal of Catherine Hahn being a witch, and then they did in spoiler alert in episode eight they sort of revealed Katherine hans witchy origin story. Honey, right on, what a what a unique origin story for a witch? Salem, Massachusetts, one year after the Witch trials. So you can actually

Giles Corey is ChIL s right off screen. Giles Corey was actually shook, shaking, Yeah, he was shaking. Queen Miss Giles was inconsolable, uncontrollable. But wait what I did laugh when it said Salem as sixty nine three. I was like, oh, not only is it witches? I let out what can only be described as a witchy cackle in that font, in that typeface. That's like, now, what is this? What

is this response? In comic sandschutt. But this is my thing, though, and this is this is what I this is sort of my response to what I feel is sort of a criticism all of a sudden of Katherine Hann in this last episode that she's sort of a few people I know were talking about like, oh, well, I didn't really get like a good villain from her, Like I I was feeling like, um, it didn't feel like she was like in her bones in the way that she

was in the other episode. I'm like, girl, no, she was giving you like cookie, which, like I think it's her job to not only be like sort of like you know, an antagonist that tracks with what she's been doing, but also to be like a little bit of a cookie which because it's a cookie show that's sorry but for kids, you know what I mean. You're talking about the Disney that you're talking about the Disney plus of it all. Duh. And it's also based on a comic book,

very very true. That's obviously like she's obviously serving Halloween Town to Calimbar's revenge realness, Like, yes, but Matt, you had brought up how it was it did not track with the past episodes that she was asking about, like like like Wanda's deal when she was like being very

aware of the stuff. But then everyone but now everyone saying that like she's been trapped in the hecks, like she happened to be there and she's another person who has these powers, and now she's like trying to figure it out. This is my understanding. And then Rose, I, I do sort of think of you as like an authority, an authority on this, So just tell me. I'm gonna tell you my understanding. You tell me if attracted with

your understanding. My understanding is after watching the episode a second time, not high as ship and not at midnight, which Rose told me is an insane thing for me to do. Absolutely absolutely nuts. Okay, I personally like the anticipation. I like waiting all day for it. You like to edge. I don't see like I'm the kind of person that's like, if I know I'm having someone over to have sex, I've already jacked off four times that day because I

was too excited, you know what I mean. Like it's gotten me in trouble before, and so with one division, it's like, I'm not gonna wait till six pm on Friday, it's's not gonna happen. So for me, this is my understanding of it. So when I watched it sober, I understood. So basically she was able to sense all this magic happening. Agatha hardiness. She arrived at the Hex where she was able to enter the Hex no problem and sort of participated in Wanda's alternate reality that she had created to

sort of figure out what her deal was. All along, she was sort of putting things in Wanda's way that we're like the episodes conflicts in order to trip her up and sort of get her to reveal how she

did this who she really was. So so my prior concern that if it was Agatha all along, why did she have so many questions is now quelled because I understand that it was sort of her all along in that things that were bubbling up and causing problems for Wander We're Agatha all along, but the reality was Wanda's creation. Does that make sense? Yeah? That tracks for me from what from my understanding And listen, like I I am not like I'm like a wik I have the Wikipedia

knowledge of this. Everyone does. Like I love X Men, I love the m c U, but like, I'm not a deep comics girl. But from my understanding, it was like, you know, Agatha was off doing her witchy scenario somewhere and you know, this huge magic moment happened, and she was very like, what was that? It was Wendy Williams. She did a win. It was and you know the sort of what what's more of a spooky facing the crowd of your audience than an alternate reality being created

by some exactly. So she was like, something's happening over there. Gotta get there immediately, see what's over there. And also I think it's very telling that her her intro scene was like about her a like wanting knowledge that was, you know, like not hers, and also sucking the literal powers out of other people. So she was like, Oh, there's this huge, you know, source of mystical whatever Shenanigan's

happening over here. Let's go see about that. And then once she realized what was going on, she was like, Okay, I'm going to play the long con and get deeper and deeper and figure out what the real true ty is and then manipulate it to my benefit. Oh and now she's she might she's gonna have to suck on that one. She might have to suck the powers of she you think she's going to try to suck Wanda, And I think she's trying to like bait, She's trying to bait Wanda into a battle so that she can

Oh my god, the old up. Wait, this is this week the finale. I'm I'm hearing it's nine. It's nine. I'm so upset. I don't know about that. For salt Lake to end and then this to now end feels it's cruel. It feels like a cruel homophobic salt Lake. Your thoughts, I, you know, I was just as excited as everyone when it started. I thought it had such a great opening first couple of episodes, and then it low key fell off for me around episode six seven.

I just was not interested. I wasn't connecting with any of them, and it just wasn't working for me. I can figure out pretty quickly if a Housewives City is for me, and that's just like, wasn't it. I find that very interesting because I feel like I don't know if I like a house If City or not until like I'm in the third season of watching it, and so like, what what makes it? What like what made it? What makes it good or bad? To you? Do you do?

You know? You're there was no clear protagonist for me, or no clear fun antagonist for me. I think I believe that you need to check back in because I always think because I get it, because at at the point where you're saying you fell off, I was also less than enthused. And then there was one episode that came back when they went on a trip, which you always got to let the girls go on a trip before you decide to bail, and I think you gotta at least get to the to the reunion to see

how it goes. They went to Vegas ship went down to me, it was peak Housewives. And then there was I would say two and a half out the three reunion episodes were like peak Housewives reunions. I think, I mean, I might just go watch the reunions because they give you the clip packages, so you basically get to see the entire season, like just the good parts of it,

right right, So maybe I'll do that. Well, I think the reunion actually went easy on Jen, who was the big antagonist of the of the Vegas trip, And so I would say, what, yes, yes, I agree, Like usually if I'm ever trying to catch up on a Housewives, I'll just watch the reunions, but I think with this particular one, you gotta watch that that second episode of the Vegas trip and then go to the reunions and it's not Look, it's not too much time. That's true.

I was kind of hoping that if Law on Division had been longer, they would eventually have gotten to a Housewives episode, you know, like like every TV format, Like yeah that, I mean, Katherine Han as a Housewives antagonist would have been Can you imagine Catherine Hana like a n A wig. I absolutely can. I can see it vividly in my head right now. Me too. I'm bummed

that we won't get that. Maybe. I mean, you know they're saying I think Kevin figgy Um, who's like the Marvel the Queen, he said like I think he said in an interview, like there's it could continue, even though like I think this whole show exists as a way to set up the next Doctor Strange, which I have not seen the first Doctor Strange me neither can't. Now, now let's just take a quick strub hole here. Can we get it up for Benedict come not personally, but

that's okay. I I trust that people. I trust that he's an attractive person to pe people absolutely. I mean, yeah, yeah, you have to respect a lot of people are saying that I kind of saw it for him back in the Sherlock days. Yes, first season of Sherlock, which is the only season I've seen, I was like, oh, yeah, good for him. But now that he's just sort of phenomenal way is well, yeah, we're It's like Ben in the cumber Batch is a phenomenon in terms of people

being attracted to him. I'm like that that doesn't fully um work or makes sense to me, but I respect it. The doctor Strange drag definitely works against him. Oh interesting, that's my problem with I guess the m c U is like when they show up in their costumes, I'm like, no, come on, that's the whole thing she is that. I was like, come on. But I also feel like that's

kind of what's been the problem. I think that's what it's what's been the problem with Wanda is she's always like showing up to the fight in a fucking like um, I mean, in the Age of Ultron, she's wearing like literally like a Forever twenty one mini dress and like topic jacket. Now we might finally get like an iconic superhero lost. Yeah, Scarlett is pretty top not. It is the look. It is the look, and we got a little preview of it when she sort of looked into

the mindstone and saw her future incarnation. Yes, that she did look still a sickening. That was a great moment. That was sickening. Oh my god, bo hot, fuck shit. I want to ask you both something. I've asked this a million in a million different ways, two people. This is not a new thing. I just find that it gets more and more overwhelming, Like how are you but either of you like consuming things now? Because I feel

like there's I can't keep up. Like today, I was just I just had the random thought I was doing the dishes or whatever, and I was like, well, I guess I gotta watch It's a sin Like I'm like, I guess like there's just like other two dues that like work their way into like my everyday like tasks now that I'm like I have I should do that.

I should watch that thing, which like, at a certain point, one Division became bring me like, I like I would go into work on Friday's and not have like and have a lot of downtime and be like, I guess I'll watch one Division because it's a thing to get off my to do list. Are we are is that am I? Am I alone? And I think, yeah, you're you're You're asking like, how do you how do you put on your item? Work? What what you how are you how are you working into your days? Is that?

Is that a fair question? Yeah? I mean I think my my well, first of all, like the the impetus for me to watch things is not like, uh, it's more like what part of the cultural conversation do I want to be on? And on UM? And also like what am I actually enthusiastic about watching UM? But also these days, at the end of the day, I just need to like check out and usually watch something pretty mindless.

That's why I'm currently working my way back through old seasons of Top Model, like season four, so like so iconic, one of the craziest seasons of reality TV in history. I mean, everything happens that season. It's the the girl fainting, the black face photo shoot challenge, right, it's um the uh, it's really it really has everything. Um yeah, the girl fainting was the episode before, UM the Quietivity, I think

that was the episode before. I think there's a maybe like two in between them, like one two in between them, got it? Got it? But yeah, you're right, like everything that that girl fainting and tiras they cut to Tira just standing there looking shocked and horrified but not moving, and she doesn't she doesn't do anything anything. She was primarily worried about ruining the take. She was like, do we got that right? Because she felt she was concerned.

But like every every gift from Top Model comes from season four? Yeah, is that is that? But make it fashion or no? Is it that season? That's gonna be from something earlier or later? It doesn't matter. I think it's it might be later. I'm on cycle seven now. Yeah. And the reason you can, the reason we can just know you were on four and now you're on seven is because they go by like that talk about mindless.

You don't need a brain to watch it, No, and you can and you can, like you can check out so much, right, you know, I actually tried watching nine Fiance because of this podcast. I watched an entire season of it. Oh my gosh, And what are your thoughts? I mean, I understand that there's a need for breaks. Sometimes it wasn't for me, Okay, I like, you know,

I've enjoyed the experience of watching it. I watched UM I think season two because that's what a Vulture article told me with UM, and I watched the whole thing. I like, had a good time, but ultimately I was like, I think I'm good. I respect that. And you know, the reason I watched it was because Bowen threatened me with the dissolution of our friendship if I did not, and so I think that we roll the tape. I'm

gonna Lisa Barlow roll the tape. That's what happened. So basically I watched it, and what turned me off was the ninety minute episodes of it all. They were too long. Stop watching drag Race, then, honey that well do you so wait do you feel the drag Race episodes are too long? Well, it's it's it's there too you long

and then untucked right after it. I usually two hours. Well, because I you know, I've been doing like Friday Night one drag Race into one Division, and so by the end of the episode of drag Race, I'm like, we got I get to Wan Division, I'll watched on Tuck when I get to it. I feel like that's crazy because the thing is, you could have watched One Division the night before at mid absolute night. It's crazy friend, and it's like the one social thing. It's Friday night.

It's Friday night in the Pandemic and we're watching drag Race. It's t G I F Honey. Wait, actually that's a real culture. It's really culture number one hundred and four

T honey. Yes, but wait, it's actually interesting you say this thing about the mindlessness of it all because Bow and I don't know about you, but I actually had a bunch of people reach out after our last episode saying they felt seen by us, saying that it was hard to watch things that are challenging nowadays because of the day to day of life and just it's I felt I felt very similarly to you Rose, where it's like I can't push myself into a place where I'm

a thinking too hard or be feeling too much because it will ruin like a stasis that I've got down at this point, you know what I mean. It's kind of why I've started to finally get into TikTok, because that is the most absolute mindless things that you can do but still high enjoyment. Oh so fun I it's

so funny. There are some there's this one girl, there's this one girl on there who does this series called Baked Takes, and it's like, um, like, which Mama me a character she would want to go bowling with and ship like that. It's it's like so funny and people on there are so creative, but also the algorithm like, I'm like new to TikTok, so I feel like the algorithm is trying to figure me out, so you know, it would like serve me things that I liked or

searched for um. And so for a while it was like lesbians and Twilight um, and then I was like, Okay, now let's start looking at one division now, like every other TikTok is, and they're all like the same theory

over and over again. They're like and the theories are always so dumb to like, I think Wanda might be the superhero known as Scarlet Scarlett, which like when people when what when like the pulpe of Agatha at the end of the episode being like, this is chaos magic Wanda that makes you period, period period, the Scarlet Witch, and people who are like we finally heard that she's a scarlet which it's like, girl, she's been credited as a Scarlette, which like on the movie's credits, like, no,

I don't think she has I think she never liked in the Wikipedia, it's like Wanda maximum slash Callet, which like we know who she is, sure, but because of the whole twenty three Fox owning x Or is like what it is they weren't allowed to call or scarlet, which until now, like it's it's a whole, like that's why they were red cons to not even be mute. Yes, yes, right, you're right, you're right, right, Okay, I got that, got Um it is funny. Um. But I just so a

couple of things I want to say. One division is not challenging to me at all, and I do find it enjoyable for that reason. Um. And in terms of the algorithm, this is not TikTok, but well, for it's been a while, I've had tik talk for like two years at this point, the algorithm still doesn't know what I like. And the Instagram and the Instagram algorithm, at least on my discover page is all drag race stuff, as if I was like the world's biggest drag race fan,

and I'm not. I'm like, it's such an oversimplification of like who I am and maybe I am that dumb of a person. Not dumb, but just like that's simple, and I'm just like, maybe the algorithms are not as powerful as we think. I mean, they will get better, but I'm just like, oh, like I feel kind of ashamed that i'm too I'm too simple for the algorithms. Yeah, sometimes your Explorer page starts to feel like a read yeah, big time, big time always, but like I'm like, I'm

not this person, no, and it's unfortunately mine. It's just like I'll go to my Explore page and it will just be like essentially softcore porn, and then then I'll just feel like shit because I'll just be like, Okay,

yeah it does. And this is where I think that you're wrong about And I think that doesn't mean you're too simpler, too stupid that like most no, no, what what I'm saying is that Instagram cannot figure you out, which makes you have power over it because you are not some drag race super fan, and I know that you are on Instagram all the time. So the fact that like you're on Instagram all the time, you're on your phone all the time, and instaes like I don't

know send him a Nina Bonina Brown doing makeup. It's SENTI It's it's literally rankings of how many UM followers, uh the season six queens have. It's like, why would I want to know that? It's infographics of like vintage drag Race seasons and imagine we actually like cut to cut to like an avoider look on Bowen's life and it is just him looking up like Trinity cable a all day. That would be fun. I would like, I

would love that life. But I think that that means that you have superior already over the app, which is absolutely huge, and meanwhile it's it's reading me like a fucking book. But also like who uses the Explore page? Right? I don't. I barely even check my feed. I just like sometimes watch Instagram stories and mostly just like go

on Finn stuff. Well, okay, speak, I was gonna bring up your finstad because I I when I think of when I think of you Rose or when I think of Fence to Culture, I go, you know, the person who curates the best memes is a tie between Rose and and Friend Toronto. I'm like, you two are somehow in that you guys have figured out some sourcing or I don't know what it is, but you you both like will curate the right memes. Well, he's also often stealing memes from me. Where are you? Where are you

finding them? Um? No, I mean from from Twitter, from other people's fence stuff. Yeah, they're not they're not the scarlet witch. I know it's not. It's not chaos. Um, it's just chaos. Well, first of all, I want to. I want to share your handles so bad because it really makes me laugh. Will you power? I said, I want to. I'm not going to, but I mean, but like I'll give a tease. I'll say, like what it's from. I won't say what it is, but it is. It is from the film. It's from last black Swan. Yeah,

was black Swan big major culture for you? Yes? I love black Swan. I remember seeing it in theaters. I was so obsessed. Um yeah, I love I love it. I mean I love most of his films. I loved Mother mother exclamation point. My mom is actually in my phone as a mother exclamation point. If I could italicize it,

I would, Oh my god. If you can make it into the folklore font, into that like rustic font, you would that's actually that's cuckoo bananas that you even bring up Mother, because it's the second time Mother has come

up today in my personal life. Yes, because I was talking about I Care a lot earlier and about how people I think a lot of the response to the movie are like people being like I didn't like that, but and really it They didn't like the way it made them feel because it's about a bad person, Whereas I think Mother was sort of the same thing. Like Mother did not make people feel good, but it was extremely good at doing that, you know what I mean.

It also like it also made you want to talk about it, Like I saw Mother with a bunch of friends and we and we saw it, I think at Williamsburg Cinemas in Brooklyn and walked from there to Kellogg's Diner and had food, and we talked about the movie from the time we left the theater until we all got up and left at the end. And it's not it wasn't necessarily that we all loved it, but we all just like really wanted to talk about it. That

scene where Christin Wig shoots someone is iconic. It's one of the craziest collections of scenes that's ever been committed to a collection of scenes is really good way, but it's really the culture number thirty Mother Mother is the most insane, one of the most insane put together on film. And tell you, Lord, really and sometimes I will call my mother mother and she really she really doesn't like it for some reason, patronizing. That's wait, can I can

I share? Can I tell Matt we'll we'll bleep out the handle. I swear to God, will bowen is you can say it and then I'll do it in the in the voice. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we we know the voice. But okay, well, because I really want you to be heroes for when I tell Matt, because I've dreamed of this day. Actually I'm not I'm not even joking. I'm like humiliated and embarrass that I'm already not following it.

And I have I have like a big complex about fence to culture that I'm not like your well, your fence to mattn is a no. But it's the the avatar is um is mine? Also is I love box Lust. I am a vox Lux stand up box Lux Truther. It is that's her name again, what's the last Her and her fans are called angels I am u cessed with. There's bops from the e k G. Are you fucking hitting me? Who have a heart attack? Yeah? The controversial Sia, the lightning rod of controversy. That is CIA. Oh my god,

the artists formerly noticed Patty Harrison. Alright, really that was art. That was truly. May have to get Patty back on the show to sort of answer for herself. I've been wanting to get Patty on the show. You need to bring her. She needs to come to the table to the need to happen here contractually. Actually, um, we'll go bo and do. This is the handle. This is the handle. Ready, It's it's a little like Sean Connor. Oh my god, the way that people bleep, bleep bleep. But anyway, it

was good for us readers. Oh my god. Every time I see it, I laugh, I audibly laugh. Okay, so I'm gonna assume that your top two favorite Aronofsky are Black Swan and Mother. Yeah, and what would you say is the third? What are the other ones? I can I tell you what I gag for the wrestler. I thought the wrestler was amazing. Oh see, it's actually I think better than you probably think because I get the

Mickey Rourke sort of on horror show. But like Marissa Tolmay is so good in it, and every Rachel Woods also great in it. Like it gives you something, It gives the queers, you know something. I love Evan rachel Wood. Oh my god, no, bra no panties. Yes, the woman who taught me to huff chelo, the woman who taught me to huff. Wow, she actually brings to use it off the use phrase. She actually brings it to you. Every Ball thirteen was truly like it rocked me to

my core. I was like, I can't believe this girl is acting this way. And it was Evan rachel Wood through the character and Evan and Nicky Reid and Nicky Reid Yeah, Nicky Reid who wrote it. Yeah, who famously went on to be in Twilight. Yeah, she was. And she also, like I think, married Ian Summerholder. Lucky bitch. What a dream. Wait. But this is the thing about True Blood though and Bone Were you a true Blood? Sort of watched the I watched the first and then

I fell off. All right, So in the fourth season they bring Fiona Shaw on as a witch, and I feel they sort of ended Witches for a little bit with that because they had a bad season with it was it was not great, and it came off of what I think were the two the best True Blood seasons, which were two and three marian and then the Werewolves and then oh my god, Oh my god. Uh Maryanne. She was ever a moment, the moment, come on, no miss Michelle Forbes, who was who played Marianne on True

Blood season two. I watched the killing because of her. I was like, I was like a Michelle Forbes stam and I love that actress. When she popped up in the Hunger Games, I think I screamed audibly in the movie theater and she was probably there, like I've been waiting. Her family was so concerned. They's just been at every show and it's playing on thousands of screens. It's you know,

but mary Ane's capable of many things. We should say. Uh. That third season of True Blood features Dennis O'Hair and a performance that I can only describe as made me come. That's the one where he rips out the spine on TV. Oh my god, back when I used to be able to sit through ship like that. See that's how you know, I've been through a sea change as a person. Like I used to be able to I used to fucking I was obsessed with true Blood. Yeah, I don't get

it that. I don't get why you can't well, you're so squeamish now, I don't know. You don't like I don't like Gore. It has to be very pulpy, yeah, I mean you. I like, I had to watch Mother, Like I think I saw that two percent of it, you know what I mean because I was just like that the whole time, and like like, and I feel shitty about it because I want to, like, I want to not be such a a little bit. Well, Rose,

you're you're you're a vampire person. You love your Twilight, you love your true blood x x she that's right, that's right, that's right. Yeah. I I had an early love of all things supernatural monsters. I mean, as a kid, I loved Um and Rice. Um. I think that was probably my first exposure. I read like Um Interview with a Vampire like saw it way too young. And I was a huge Buffy girl. Yes, okay, you would be.

I was. I was the I was like the Buffy girl and the well were this Segway is perfectly into the question, but I do want to get your take on the Jos stuff if you yeah, um, you know it's it's so it's so sad um because to think about, um, how hard like to to think about the experiences that these people had and to think about how, um, how much pain went into making something that you love, um,

and so it will be forever tainted for me. And that's why you know, probably like when we get to the question, maybe like a couple of weeks or a couple of years ago, like that might have been it might have been I mean, and we'll get to my answer,

and like it's still kind of is partially um. But you know, it's it's really shitty, and I think you know, it's it's so weird to think about how like this man whose career has like always kind of featured these stories about like strong women and wondering if like that was maybe a way for him to excuse the way

that he like actually treated women behind the scenes. Yeah, well you know you have to think that or again this and this is I'm not an expert on this, but like even hearing it stated that plainly, like someone who's um about creating um powerful women, Like there's also something with control about that, And there's so much with you know, abusers, like if you really boil it down, like so much of it, almost all of it really is about control, and so maybe there is something to that.

Because someone else who's credited with, you know, creating amazing characters for women is Woody Allen. Like I wonder if people are watching it that I've daigned to defend him recently, like can actually watch this and sit and have that sit in their spirit, because it's just interesting the parallels because there are these people who, like, you know, Penelope Crews when she won her Oscar for Vicky Carissina was like, you can't talk about female characters without talking about Woody

Allen and I was like, well, in retrospect, that's pretty shitty. Well, this is someone who worked with him to to acclaim. So it's just it's it's interesting that I wonder there's something to that m about the control about or oh yeah yeah, yeah, about um taking cover behind creating fictionally strong women. Yeah, like women are only allowed to be strong, uh, you know in fiction and on your terms. Yeah, and it's always like you're you're the one giving the permission.

For sure. It feels like, um like, especially this actually was gonna be my I don't think so, honey, maybe it still can be. But like with the whole anti hero movement, um it feels like we really only let men get away with that. Really um Like, it feels like, you know, especially like with even with I care a lot, like not to bring it up again, but just because it's because it is happening in the moment. No, well

I do, actually and so and so. Basically, what what I'm saying is like it feels like if a woman is a pure, out and out villain, people don't know what to do with it. Like even with something as stupid and it should be as goofy as Maleficent. It's

like Maleficent should just be Maleficent. It's actually why we bought the ticket is because I wanted to see Angelina Jolie reek absolute Havoc and hell and fire flames on everyone, Like I don't want to watch Cruella de Ville with Emma Stone and find out she has mommy issues, darling, dear, you know, and I because you know what her name is actually cruel devil, so Emma Stone can actually just I don't need to see her crying about trauma on

a bike. I can. I would like to see her make a dog into a coat, because that's what Corrella Deville is. And it's actually okay, I'm with you on the Maleficent thing, like how do you call the second movie Maleficent Mistress of Evil? And they're like, but she's not really evil? You know who's bad? Michelle Fiverer like and only kind of It's like, what are you doing?

Like I I bought the ticket to see Angelina Jolie be a final Us and like, the reason why we loved all these villains when we were kids was like because they were bad, not in spite of it. Right, if if they do that to Ursula, someday she's gonna be She's gonna be a girl boss, is going to be running a small business down in that little cave she has shop. Oh no. It was like the reason I'm like this is because I didn't fit in the body standards under the cr They're too much. And I

turned to water, witchy water. I remember when the rumors were that it was gonna be Gaga, Gaga more snatched than ever. She goes back to her art pop body are classical, showing She's like, admit, I've been a nasty like I'm just like Gaga. Oh my God, Like I want to see that movie. We have to talk to Rose about Gaga. I don't well. I reread I reread the art pup Um Peace, and I fully agree with you the one I wrote for Paper. Yes, so I

we sort of. I sort of went back down the Rose wormhole and I was just like, especially in retrospect, like art pop is my favorite Gaga um without it? Is it? Really? Yeah? It is. It's so funny because it's like when it came out, When it came out, you hated it. I remember, Yeah, And in retrospect I have a completely different opinion on it because I was always like fearful of God God, because I was fearful

of myself. I I honestly think this. There are people who are afraid of themselves and their sexuality and their identity. Are they distrust Gaga? They were they were slower to God. I'm not kidding. I really think that. Okay, okay, get it interesting, this is interesting, but we should ask the question. Let's ask the question. This is the question we ask all of our guests, Rose, what is the culture that

made you say culture is for me? Okay, I thought really heard about this and I love good yeah, and I and I like was overthinking it, and there were so many things that I think it could have been. And then I really thought about what, like what the question is, and it's like, what is the culture that made me say, like, oh, culture is for me? Because that famously thank you for that, cadence, and they're going.

And so the culture that made me realize cultures for me is fan fiction for dot net, fan fiction, dot net live journal, you know, like angel fire, websites, um I. And I think the reason that that is is because fan fiction made me realize that you were allowed to love something that much. You were allowed to love a piece of culture so much that that love didn't stop

when it was over. It didn't stop when the when the like author creator told you who those characters were, that you were allowed to play in their sandbox and and like remix what they had created and live in that world. Um yeah, and and so many, so many pieces, so many things. I think around the time that I discovered that like we're connected to it, it was like about internet culture and fandom and like being like a

weird goths you know girl. Um and uh yeah, like I just loved and still to this day, like I read fan fiction. If I really like like a movie or a book or something, the first thing I do when it ends, it's like, oh, I wonder if there's fan fiction about this, Like I'm not ready for it to be over. I just want to say, um, this is I think this is one of our best answers. I would agree. I mean what we're uh fan of fictions that you dabbled in and did you create it yourself?

I did, and and that's a big part of it is like I learned to write reading and writing fan fiction. Um, you know, like like obviously I loved I loved books, and like that could have been my answers like books or like libraries or whatever, but really it was like and yes, I so I did write fan fiction. I think probably like the earliest fan fiction I read was like Buffy and Harry Potter, right, you know, Potter fan

fic was big. It was huge, and I was like firing up the E machine in in my um you know, like uh bedroom, and you know, just consuming fan fiction. For hours while listening to Evanescence Um until my eyes and started to bleed. Harry Potter was the gateway into a lot of other fan fiction. I would say, maybe this is just like well established, well the world is know big, but the hair. But the trouble with Harry Potter fan fiction to me was always, Oh, you're trying

to write like j K rolling, and you should. You should make a choice that is deliberately not j K in order to make it interesting. That's why like the quote unquote poorly written fan fix between like you know, mouthlin and and Harry fucking like that, we're like really like lude and disgusting. We're like my favorites. Well, I loved the more the more ridiculous ones, like the iconic famous My Immortal fan fiction, like that wait, what is

that one? Okay, so there's this, there's there's been there's this fan fiction called my Immortal that's about you know, there's this fan fiction trope of the like Mary Sue self insertion character, where's this character who's like not tied to the actual thing that's happening, and it's like so cool and perfect and like has super like crazy superpowers. And my immortal is that, but like on fucking Crack,

it's this girl who is named Um. I think her name's Ebony, but like the author misspells it as Enna be Um and she's like a goth satanist who had rolls at Hogwarts. Um. There's been so much like like discourse around this about whether it was real or if it was like someone, but it is. It is truly Um. I've heard about my immortal. I have not. I should just reade how long is it? Is it a long read? I feel like I should just read it. It's either

like ten thousand words or a hundred thousand. I could not tell you because it didn't matter there you were like up to the crab and onn eyes bleeding. Yeah, it didn't matter that that And that's part of it too, is like like I remember I used to this is so huge milliating, But to read American Idol fan fiction of like them at the House, you have no idea.

I read this fan fiction one time that was Ryan's Secrets going to knocking on the door of the American is L season four house like to look for Anthony Fedorov, who came in like fifth or six. It was like this like blonde twin who like was like a tenor and I swear to god I read a full sex fan fiction I did about Ryan Seacrest, like eating Anthony Federov's asked, and then I could have been reading it for four hours or fifty eight Like that's I'm saying. I was totally lost in the world of like this

insane pornographic fan fic. And that's what I was gonna ask you. Was a lot of the ship that you read porn um? I mean I think a fair amount of it because like this was like pure time for me, but also like I don't know, I was really into people who really took the time to build out like alternative universes and like put a lot of detail in it. And still like to this day, I think, you know, you see so many authors now who got their start writing fan fiction. I mean it's become mainstream. Look it

fifty Shades of Gray, which I love. I am stan because why hate on it? It literally is what it is, what it is, like like you know what I mean, Like it just is what it is, and the movie's going to be better or worse. Movies are so fun. They always get such bops on the soundtracks to Dat You Do Love to Get. You and Dakota have a similar energy. Is that fair to say, um, sure we

both have bangs? Well no, but you like you would you would have said that to Ellen, like like you would have said that to Ellen maybe, Like that's not the trick. I can just hear you got, I can hear you going no Ellen. I also, I mean, I loved Dakota from Fifty Shades of Gray, but what really tug me over the edge with her was Spiria. Oh my god, I love Suspiria. It is. It became immediately one of my favorite movies. And I don't like the original.

I think I think the original is bad and I all the fucking like film Twitter people are going to start coming for me. But Suspiria. I could sit through that three hour movie six times a day. What about it? Because I have to admit that I have not seen it, and I'm afraid to. I for some reason have the squeamishness that Matt you normally has around to Spiria like that one is like for real, like, yeah, it goes there,

It's so good, you know, it's the Witches again. I think what I really liked was I did see the original first, and you know, the hallmark of the original is that it's like this like really like technicolor um, you know, like super saturated movie and like it's all about style over substance. And then the remake is like so muted um and like austere it's like, you know, so german um. And I thought Dakota was like incredible

in it, till does amazing. I mean Tilda in that like Tilda a prosthetics playing that old man and playing this like amazing like high priestess, and the gore is so ridiculous. The music that the Tom York soundtrack is amazing. I just I fucking love that movie. Uh huh. Yeah.

We Oh, we got on this topic because the Fifty Streets is gray I do before we really and I'm not ready to move on quite yet, but I do want to point out that roses onto something um that might be a little obvious, but like the like fan fiction culture at that time, let's say circa two thousand six, that at that time in the Internet, that was the like precursor to all the stuff that we have now, which is like stand culture, which is like like film, Twitter,

even it was all like secret because it was because it wasn't cool to like something that much was It was a lot there was a lot of irony. That's so true. We we I don't think we've been in like a state where it's cool to be ironic for some time. Now. I feel like it's it's it's and I'm so glad because I'm not. I don't fit in with that, like I cannot hide. And that's what I mean.

That's I think. The one thing that I really like about culture today is like, and maybe we've swung a little too far, is that it is cool to love what you love so aggressively online. Um, but which I couldn't have imagined when I was like a teenager, you know, secretly reading like Buffy, Lord of the Rings crossover fan fiction, um, you know, by the glow of my computer screen in the middle of the night, hoping that my mom wentn't

walk in. Not because I was like doing because I was like, you know, like getting off to it or anything, but because it just felt like I should. There was an element of shame. There was an element of there

was an element of shame. It was like you should have gotten over that after you read it or watched it, like you shouldn't still be so obsessed with it, but I was, and especially you know when you factor queerness into it, because I mean, I do think it's very telling that when I started fan fiction, you know, I was very interested in like heterosexual romances and this was like you know, with like way pre transition, so who knows what kind of like gender fantasy I was living

out um but now, but then like that evolved into like reading queerness into the media I was consuming and wanting to see that explored in fan works. Yeah, I feel like we should also remember that, like the box of what was quote unquote cool to like at that time was very small because there was almost no representation and there were very few platforms as compared to what

we have today. So I feel like it's easier to find community and what you like just because there is more of it out there, and like there is such a like obviously like not to say queerness is embraced, but like there are there is queer representation at all, and so like that obviously opens up so so much content to like and to embrace. It just didn't exist at the time, like of course, I'm talking about how you know, I read fan fic for the most popular

fucking television show in America. Like that, we're talking about how the popular fan fic of the time was Harry Potter, the most popular children's book in the world in the history of the world. You know what I mean. So you were you were obsessed with Lost, right, what did you read Lost fan fiction? I did? I did um and many Lost fan fictions. They actually gave Kate a personality which I loved, um um, Like when Juliette came on that shot, I was like, oh my gosh, like

a female character with depth. I'm obsessed. But yeah, no, I did. I read a lot of fans. This is This is kind of a different conversation. But what you're saying, man about like, um, you know they're not being as many platforms back then, is interesting to me because I also think it was a now things were distributed and circulated like that, right. It's like, let's just a weird example,

but like let's say Queen's Game. It comes out and then like five days later, everyone's doing like the meme of the girl like eating all the pills and stuff.

You know, it's like okay, like there's like the visual language or the shared language of this is being developed within days and like back and then like back then, it would be like remember it was this just me, Like remember like trying to get your friends to watch a certain show, but then like it would be in its second or third season, so you would have to like blend them the DVDs of the first couple of seasons of the show, like I did that with Brayson

Animy with certain friends. I was like, you have to watch Brayson Animy when it was like season three, like I haven't seen it before. I'm like, here, borrow my dv Like it was like there was a there was a but it's not even that. It was just like there was there were just more obstacles in the path of getting people to be on the same page as you. Um. I have a lot of memories about as as a kid, like desperately trying to get people to understand like why

they needed to watch something. I remember like being at sleep Boy camp and telling my camp counselor that she had to see ever After starring Drew Barrymore and I was like and I was like repeat, I was like, there's this part where Angelica Houston, who's her stepmother, tells her like, how could I ever love a pebble in my shoe? And it is such a sick burn And

my camp counselor was like, shut up and go play basketball. Um. But yeah, like you know, we had all these fan communities, um where if your friends in real life weren't on that, weren't vibing with you, weren't on the same wavelength, there was proof online that there were thousands of other people who are yes, yes, that makes a lot of sense, makes total sense. And now it's like you don't really

have to now. I never I don't find myself having to convince people to like something that I know, because who cares if they like it too? That you know for a fact, there's a million people like it use have. You know, they have all the cultural access points to it, and if they haven't found their way to it already, you know, like there's only so much you can do. It's so funny that that we land on this because Bowen, when you said before, like, um, what sort of cues

you into watching what you're watching? Um, maybe that's part of it. Well for me, it's twitter like if I go on, which which sucks, and I hate Twitter and I think it's currently I have a deactivated I've been like battling with myself all week. Yeah, but it is like when I log on and I see everyone talking about it's a sin or I or I care a lot, or like any anything that people are talking about right now this week, I probably do get it from that site.

And that's that's you know, it's a pro and icon because it's a pro because it gets me keyed into what people are talking about and I like to be part of the conversation, like Rose was saying, but also, um, it makes me rely on that site too much, like that I cannot rely on that site for like, um my cultural consumption and news and social interaction and a joke platform and this, this, this, It just becomes too

all encompassing. But I realized that that is my answer, That is my personal answer to that question from before that may totally makes sense to me, but also it's it's it's true because like you find the people that you trust, and if you're on the fence about something, then like usually something like Twitter, Like I remember when when Vanano came out, I was like I had heard about it, and then once I saw the specific people whose opinions I really trust, being like, yeah, this is it.

This is the moment, I was like, Okay, I gotta watch that. Um. And it happened with me with you when you said Dickinson's season two was the moment. I wash, my god, Dickinson is so good. And now that you said that, I've watched the first three episodes of the first season and I'm into it. It's really good Jane Krakowski vehicle. I'm always happy with um, but it's so good. It's so queer er um. And I was surprised. Yeah,

I didn't love that. I mean, you'll get there. I didn't love some of the end of season two, but it really matured in season two. And I mean I love Emily Dickinson. I love like you know, like uh, death obsessed, like golf girls writing poetry in their bedrooms.

I mean that was me writing fan fiction. And like season two is also like such an exploration of fame and like, you know, the pitfalls of like wanting and achieving fame, and um, it's yeah, I love, I love And it's also in a way it's like fan fiction about this real person's life. Totally, totally, totally. I wanted to ask you what your relationship is to Hailey steinfeld Um because she we believe she's the queen of pop. I don't know she's the queen of pop. I really

liked Bumblebee. I watched it on a plane once. Um, you're on the wrong side of rock bottom. I did eat some lobster next to her at the Dickinson premiere party. Um. Huge? Did she go in on the lobster? Was she dainty about it? Um? No, she wasn't eating lobster. I was eating lobsters to her, isn't. They had a really they had a really crazy premiere party at the at the Dumbo Soho House and I was just like, there was a whole seafood buffet and I was just like eating.

I was like taking lobster to the face and next to Hailey steinfeld Um. But I think I think she's really I like that song, Um, I love that's her right she is hy which back to Dakota Johnson, is the last song in one of my favorite movies, How to Be Single, which I think, yeah, because Dakota as well. And if I can't watch this period. I gotta watch How to Be Single. It's like when the opposite end of the spectrum. It's really fun. It's one of the only movies that I own on iTunes. I bought it.

How to Be Single and Practical Magic. Those the only two movies I own that really tricks out. Are You a Practical Magic? Type of girl? That was on I mean that could have also been my The culture that made culture was for me because which movie? Which movie? Like? And it was Nicole Sandra And also like not just the movie itself, but like the soundtrack. I think that's probably what introduced me to Stevie Nicks. Um what introduced me to Joni Mitchell. That's scene where she's singing along

to a case of You when she's driving. UM and I I love UM. The Alice Hoffman, who wrote the book that it's based on, has written UM to prequel books and they're both really great. UM loves Cractical Magic that whole like nineties which aesthetic and like that, like magical realism I think is really fun in supernatural movies. UM and you know like Girl Powers, Sisterhood. Yeah, I

love it. It's so funny to think of Nicole Kim and in Sandra Bullock in a movie together at all, and then you remember it's that Yeah, but you think like, well it can't possibly work. It works. It works, You absolutely believe it. It's magic. That's and that's also movie magic, which is huge in Hollywood. Movie magic is huge in Hollywood. It's a real culture. It's still movie magic. Magic is huge.

So but when are you are you thinking? When I'm thinking just saying I wanted to commend Rose on what I thought was an extremely well written piece about but but I wanted to, well, what what do you still have the same take on the art? Pop off it all? And now that we have no see this is why it's good to check in with Rose about the piece because this was written like right post Stars Born, are during Stars Born, when was like hadn't yet we hadn't

yet known what she'd pivot to from Stars Worn. It was it was post Stars Born, It was when it was like fall of two thousand nineteen, so it was like Oscar, she'd won the Oscar. She was like getting

ready to go into CHROMATICA. Right, So now I guess my question to you is, now that we have CHROMATICA out in the world, does your take on the Gaga through the lens of art pop out of it all changed, Like do you feel that Chromatica was um a return to her sort of I don't give a pop, I don't give a fuck pop dance like let me try things moment. Or do you think Chromatica is low impact? Um? I love Chromatica. UM. I think both of you probably know from Eddie like cursory search of the social media.

I literally have the blanket behind me I have. I have given so many of my transsexual dollars to Lady Gaga in the past year. Um, and No, I love Caromatica.

I do think though, that it doesn't change how I feel about art pop because I think, like, yes, Lady Gaga returned to this, to this like you know, high intensity like dance pop. But I do think art pop was the last time she was a pop star in the way that we first met her, in a fearless capacity and in that sort of way where it's like, I love what you said when when you were saying like every artistic impulse was followed, like it felt like there was not the word no in the realm of

the creation of that it was it was more is more it was let's do everything because you know, after after the you know, success of Born This Way Um, you know, she was at her most like pop maximalist um. And I think that's why we saw that the direction she took afterwards when our pop you know, like quote unquote flopped like which it didn't commercially. You know, it was successful commercially, it just like wasn't as successful, you know, critically,

even though I think it's an amazing album. It's not my favorite PUM album, but I think it's an amazing album. But you know, she really everything that happened after that album really re contextualized her, both like to us, to to the public tip hop culture, and I think to herself, oh yeah, as in she started to take herself more seriously as far as like not being this thisslike really

a Trey pop artist. Now she was like now, it does feel like she's been taking herself more like a little I don't know, I was gonna say too seriously,

but now that's not true. But when you have always said this about Gaga, which which I I and I don't know if I agree with it or I can recognize it as could be true, which is that she, in every new stage of her career is performing a new type of fame, like so with the Star Is Born of it all and the canned answers on the red carpet and the sort of crying when she wins, and the thinking of the leading man and director and the fact that it's a Star is Born and you

know what I mean, the glam of it all, Um that you believe that this is part of a performance that she is doing because it's a performance of that type of movie stardom. Yes, where she's like and thank you to my costar and like, oh yeah, like that that was what a Star is Born was. I don't know what art pop was in terms of her like

study of fame. Well, I guess I would. What I'm saying is like, thinking that she is performing these different types of fame is sort of in conflict with she takes herself too seriously because if she's if she's performing different types of fame, then she then she's in control of that performance. I guess my question to the panel is, do we think that's less true then maybe we have before? Maybe? I mean, like I think so I think that that performance of fame was a lot more intentional in her

early work. I mean literally the fame, the fame, money exactly, um. And then I think it has to happen that once you achieve a certain degree of fame, you can't make art about it in the same way because you're like actually inhabiting that reality, right right. I just think that art pop was her because at that point, that was when like you would have Elton John in interviews. I just simply remember this be like she's she has like Ellen John interview saying she has too many yes people,

she has too many people saying yes. And she said people were lying to me, like people on her team she felt were lying to her, right, I mean that was just a chaotic time that I think was reflected in like even the rollout of the album and when she revealed the track list was do you remember this? The way she revealed the art pop track list was through little individual Instagram photos with little like like a

little like a little mural paintings. It was like a five year old had painted like the words like aura and like a little picture of like I remember that blue a blue But like it was just like what the fun at the time of art pop being released

was like maybe the craziest time of my life. That's when I was like like really firmly entrenched in like underground nightlife in New York and and so like that that part of it all, like seeing the kind of performance I was seeing on like a really micro level be then performed at its most outrageous. I think even then I recognized, like, that's not something that's sustainable, And I write, you knew it when you knew it had to stop. Yeah, I think that's probably what there was,

like some level of burnout, I think. And do you think that that? How do I how do I ask this question? Do you think that the commercial quote unquote failure and critical quote unquote failure of art pop is what ended that? Or do you think that there was just not no further she could go at that time, like as an artist. Was the call coming from inside the house or was it external forces? Um? I think it's a little bit of both. I mean, you know,

her her body literally gave out on her. She had she had had such this crazy ascendency um and then you know, like like maybe hit a wall or something in the public eye, and you know, she took such a hard pivot to to like doing I think something that was like more comfortable for her, which was you know, like to the cheek the cheek of it all and

the star was born. Um yeah, I just think she I don't and like I've really don't like this idea of like framing art pop as a failure, and that's like, really, why why not saying that you all are like And that's why I wrote that essay because that essay was in reaction to her saying I don't remember art pop And I was so upset by that because it felt like she was that was odd and I and I feel like it probably was just like all you know,

you know, starting the promo machine, going for chromatica like should fire off a tweet every couple of months, and like the girls riled up, But it really felt like because the abandoned, she abandoned, she abandoned the legacy of that album and like the the stands and little monsters

who were like really rode hard for that right here. Yes, yeah, she bailed on the commitment of it, and the commitment of it was that was so important, felt it felt like it was everything at a hundred and so years later to tweet out, I don't remember this because it's not even like it's not even like she said I hate art pop, which I think everyone would have been able to know was like a troll move because she is a troll, like Boone always points out, like Lady

Gaga is an online troll, like pregnant, Yeah, pregnant. So like with something from those chromatic oreos, why should we find out they are soil and green? They are. They're disgusting, they are. I have I have so many packages of them in my cabinet and every time I open I

can smell them. I think about the oreo of it all with with but and I like again, like as we're talking about it now, I don't know if I'm behind this anymore, but this idea that like it's a performance of fame at every stage, I can get behind that when it comes to the oreo of it all, because she's like l o fucking lah, you know, that feels to me like it has to be knowing like if she is officially like when Stefani target pop star and that she's an oreo, then that's a tragedy. Um.

I don't believe it's true. I believe that she's knowing about the chromatical oreo. I agree, I or I need to believe that anyway, I don't know. I'm I'm just happy that her dogs were returned and that was safe. Although I was there an update on that to the dog walker said something I don't know. I haven't been no, I hadn't checked in on the situation. I heard that the dogs were safely returned, and that to me was like, okay, so there's not more of a thread we're going to

follow here. What about the person who was shot looking them or who returned them and how did they get them? I know that she said, I'm gonna give half a million dollars no questions asked, but like you got to ask some questions if someone was shot. Yeah. Also lady got got me like no question to ask, like the police are like, well not really, that's that's such like an Italian an Italian, like I was gonna say, like

a monster thing to do. I think she is doing a gangster movie in she's doing movie all right, right, right, right right, because I heard that she was also going to do like a mob movie, which felt so Stephanie. Yeah, I mean, we gotta we gotta have her place. Just an Italian girl from New York. Have you ever been that before? Yeah? We went together. We we we've been together. I wanted to date their once separately. It's true. What do you want to say about it? Rose? It is

not very good. I've the food is wrong. It is is toe up. The bartenders, they're like, God, bless them, just just lost Hell's Kitchen souls. We love them, we love we wish them well. We do have an update. I do wish that I UM owned the Joe and Trittoria UM Pride to twenty nineteen t shirt. I'm sad it when I have the we can someone out there has to have access and we can get it. We can get it sense or well, we're we can make them ourselves and sell them as law schoolture. That's true.

We we are all about using pop stars the whole deal and making merch off of it for ourselves. Um. We have an update on Lady Gagas dog Walker. Lady Gagas dog Walker Ryan Fisher wrote that he has quote still in recovery from a very close call with death and that a lot of healing still needs to happen. Nonetheless, he added the gratitude for all the love I feel from around this planet is immense and intense, which feels like it came from Lady Gaga's dog Walker for sure.

It feels like it feels like it came from anyone. Using the word planet, you have to think maybe this that was written by a kindness punk for sure. Bros. You are you are the kindness punk, aren't you am? I? Yeah, I am. I'm trying to be I'm a I'm trying to be I'm trying to be nicer. I think god like, Um, so much of my personality used to be based around like being mean and like being a loose and that's not fun. I want to I want to be nice. No,

it's really not see that. I think. I think the being being mean is cool of it all ended with irony culture or like detachment lature. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure because Lady got I'm sure yeah interesting? Oh no, I mean the one time I met her, she was very nice. When did you meet her? Um? I met her? This was like when I used to live on the

Lower East Side. I met her the day after the Alejandro video came out, and I met her at a bar on Rivington Street where she was like that that like guy who she used to date who owned all those lowery sidebars. And I was with some friends and we were like going to a party and we walked by and there was a woman standing out, a blonde woman standing outside and just her underw and I was like, that is Lady Gaga. And I was a huge little monster, and like all my friends were straight and none of

them cared. Um, and we and so we left and we eventually went back there and she was still there, and you know, you could kind of see people like hovering around wanting to like like say hi to her. But this was like the height of you know, like hipster uh, you know, like downtown culture. It wouldn't have been cool. So but I didn't care. And you know, like I got to like said high to her. Um,

and she was just like very nice. She was just sitting at the end of the bar, like throwing back beers all night, waiting for the bar to close so she could get laid. Oh my god, wow, I love that so much. And I also just want to quickly say that hipster culture was so embarrassing deeply. Everything about the aesthetic of it was embarrassing, the attitude things the bean and I and I really participated in it. Oh

me too. My friend Cayles strback in high school got me The Hipster Handbook and like it was my favorite fucking book of all time, and I was like, I gotta listen to Pavement, I gotta listen to like fucking like radio every radio Head album. Like it truly like

made me. It like stunted my development. And I think that's why I swung so hard away from it, like after that into like real dirt bag club kid like super glam, like uh like no irony culture is because I was like that fucking sucks and like only straight people are into that, and I'm fun and I'm like fucking queer and I'm not gonna be like ironic about anything.

I'm gonna be really fucking literal and maximalist about everything. Yes, because I think you're onto something where it's like hipster culture was a way to like fence queer people into something that was still had a renormative but we were like,

oh but this is like this feels different enough. It was still like, oh, but this is being dictated by straight people, and straight people only totally and like we were still there was still another like barrier to break out of in order for queer people to be like, oh, this is what we actually want. It was like alternative,

but it was still like homogeneous. Yes, yes, well, the funniest ship was like like it was sort of the death rattle of hipster culture was probably like two thousand tennish, right, like, and so the funniest ship was watching people that went to n y you pretend they were hipsters, like dressed up in their hipster chic and then hang around Washington Square Park. It's like, girl, if you go to n YU, you're like, you can't, Like, this is not a thing,

Like it's come on, embarrassing, embarrassing. I missed New York so much. Oh it's it'll be, it'll it's waiting for it's been waiting for you. Taylor Swift. How do you talk about Taylor? I know, well, but just give some thoughts. Go ahead, talk um. I you know, you know, I'm

a swifty. I love and I really appreciated it. And I don't think I don't I don't think hipster could be a swift, like you know what I mean, Like that would have been the antithesis of what it meant to be that but you know you probably were definitely bumping red at that time. Absolutely, and and like, I mean she was such a part of like, uh, the counter culture I was experiencing at that time, and like

and queer people even then were like accessing her. Um and and now, um, yeah, this whole era has been so fucking good. I mean folklore, Like, I'm still bumping it almost every day. Yeah, I only just started spinning everywhere all the way through because I wasn't done with folklore. I'm almost there, but I'm still putting folklore on before I go to bed, just to like wind down, because I'm like this, the vibe here is so perfect. I've listened to mirror Ball approximately. It's the best song of

that that whole era. It's it's one of my favorite songs She's ever made. Agree And I truly did shrooms on Fire Island in July, like and what me and Julio were in this this house, locked up together because we were like to too scared to do anything except to go to Fire Island l O L. But I would play mirror Ball and just walk around. I walked up the entire done the entire length of the island, just listening to Mirror Ball on repeat, and I was

like truly in heaven, like watching the sunset. I was like, this is perfect. I want to go to fire. I was. I wanted to get a share for this summer, but I think it's like too late already. I don't think it. I have news for my for my friends. I have cooling. I got a quarter show and we had like one week every single month from May to October. You guys, anyone, anyone is welcome to come well huge here and I

will tack you up. I did want to say like I'm finally at the point now where I think and this is only because like when she announced that Evermore was coming out, there was a little part of me and Bowen you we talked about this. It was just like exhaustion and it was just like a little bit like overwhelmed Taylor. It felt so Taylor for her to do that, and I was so I feel it was so filling Taylor. At that point, I felt on my

feet on the tailor, you know what I mean. I was just like I was just like ready to feel my odes on my tailor. The spirit because Taylor is the soul and Taylor is the eyelashes. Yes, and so so when she sort of batted the Taylor yeah, um is really the way I can describe it, the silver on the eyelashes. And so basically, when she batted the eyelashes, that's that's what the Disney movie Soul is about. It's about us, It's about it. I wish it would have

been about that. And they followed that's exactly it and only and then they create the the best pop star of all time. Max Um Absolutely not. You know who is? You know who is? My sweet sister bow Well. I love I love um Yeah, I love the one gone that's bols around the world. He doesn't love the one song my head don't Head in my Heart and my Head in My Heart is an absolute masterpiece. That would

listen to that single readers, It's it's phenomenal anyway. Anyway, what what I was gonna say was, I'm finally at the point now where I've gotten over myself because it was entirely coming from me. The calls coming from inside the house that had nothing to do with Taylor or Evermore and folklore are equals. It is. I cannot pick a favorite because Evermore so I put together like a Folkmore,

which is my favorites from both. Now I've moved on and I'm listening to Evermore just straight away through Girl Ivy gets slept On. It is one of the best songs lyrically she has ever written. Absolutely, and then also You're Not The arrangement is beautiful too, Yeah, and I a cowboy like Me is so good. Like I'm only saying these ones now because this is like at the point in the album, like, let me just scroll over

the track tolerated, Oh my god, Tolerated. From the beginning, I've been like, I mean, any track five, I'm like, any track five on Taylor, I'm like, even if I don't like it the first time, I know that's my problem, you know what I mean, Like, I will like And she made it a track five for a reason. Yeah, exactly. And so for me, like Ivy and Coda like Me are tracks ten and eleven on a fifteen track album. And I was kind of like after Folklore and this, that's when I was running out of steam, and so

I just didn't they didn't hit with me. I was just tired. I guess now I am obsessed with these songs, and I only really just got around to the fact that Closure is about Kim Kardashian and I it's it's such a good song that like ends that chapter. Matt, I'm I'm I'm sorry to did this in front of Rose, but I think next next episode should be should should that be the evermore track by track? We can here's the thing. We can definitely go. We can definitely go.

We can definitely track track because I want to listen to it. I have I want to hear it. I mean, I'm actually I have to say, like before, like I just want I'm so happy to be here, and I like I don't want to be I don't want to be too like whatever, but oh my god, I'm like actually getting a little emotional, you know, like I live I live in l A. I live by myself. I moved here in July mid pandemic, and like I'm very isolated.

I live alone, and um, this podcast, Like I listened to it all the time because it makes me feel like I'm not alone. And I'm almost like I'm almost like a little disappointed to be on it this week because I won't get to be surprised by a new

episode and like you too much. You know, it's like what y'all do here is really special, and like every week that when I listened to you, like feels like I'm like hanging out with friends, like being welcomed into something like really intimate and fun, and I'm just like feel like very happy to get to be a part of it. Thank you for saying that, because and then cuts me crying hysterically, thank you cancer. I had to bring the piss. Okay, So this is what it is,

because Pisces scorpio cancer. That's very much it um the Literally whenever anyone that's as dynamic as you, like any queer person says something like that, that just is so validating for us. And and so I mean that's literally what keeps us doing it. I've listened to the Top two Moments of Culture several times all the way through. Yeah, well you know we're approaching to fifty, so we got we got to do something about I want to listen to like two episodes on the Drive to from and

Waiting in Line at Raising Kaynes. What's what's raising Keynes? Is this like a chicken tender restaurant in l a it's like very much like l A drive through culture. Um, you gotta come out to you gotta come out to l A again. Both, So let's do it anyway. Wow, thank you for saying that. And yeah, and so now, yes, we will do every more next week, okay everyone, And then and I want us to let me talk about

I care a lot for just two minutes. Yes, yes, yes, at that point I will have something to say about it as well. And I have to watch it to sin. Have you watched it? To Sin? I have not. I haven't watched it. Um everyone's talking about like, everyone is talking about it, um, so you know, maybe I'll get around to it. I'm not feeling like super pressed to right now. I know, like the conversation about it is that it's really heavy, and I'm just not in the

place for that right now. I'm like prioritizing my mental health and not like watching things that are super sad. I'm whim watching Top Model for like six hours a night. That's it, And I love that. I only asked because I heard that Neil Patrick Harris plays a bottom, which felt like a revolution to me. He's in it interesting, So anyway, it's read to see him spreading his wings and his whole Let's just move right along from that

sense too. I guess I don't think so, honey. Huh. Yes, wow even and and I feel like in ending this episode, we are not ending Rose's time on Last Coach because you must return. I feel like third co host energy. It's wild. We've had such good guest lately. We've had great guests. You really have. The last couple of episodes of the podcast have been so fun. Thank you. And I'm not including this because I think I'm going to

be a total flop. I have no this episode. I'm already saying as soon as we get off this call, this call. But I'm but I'm telling that, I'm like, this is this is a fantastic one. This is really excited. I'm really excited. But we'll see how your legions of fans respond to it. And I was very happy to Uh. I loved what y'all said about me last week, thing that I am Taste. I will now be using that as my new official bio, I am Taste. Um. Okay, so this is I don't think so, honey, bon yang, uh,

this is correct me If I'm wrong. The sixty minute sixteen minute. Can you believe? Get a picture of that. Get the screenshot of that sixty minute You're right here, forever here for three hours at least. Anyway, Um, since sixty second segment where we rail against something in pop culture that we sorry but hate um and need to address in a feverishly critical manner. Yes, yes, I have one?

Do you have one? I do? Okay, we'll start with you, and I'm gonna sort of not do the one I said I was gonna do before, because I think I made that point salient, like, Okay, okay, this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so many as time starts now, I don't think so honey, this awards season at all? What is a single movie that is up for anything? What is Pieces of a Woman? Someone tell me what? Girl?

What is tonight? I have to watch? Um? A movie I barely had even heard of in the conversation, uh the United States versus Billy Holiday, It's a It's it's a winner as of last night, thrilled that it is huge. Andrew day Fan didn't know I'd have to. I didn't know was out so many of these ways. I didn't know they were out the Award season this year is like they senior years long and the Oscars are in April deep April. I'm like, how is that? What's gonna

happen next year? I don't know what is the father? What is like? And also everything's on television. What's a show? What's a movie? It's really fascinating when you think about it. And also I love the joke last night where it's like, no, I don't want to watch a movie that's two hours long. I'd rather watch a TV show that's five hours long. I thought everything is sort of sucking with each other the forms. Now we're supposed to have the Oscars, girl

called the super Emmy's because what I don't think. I just don't know what. And then things they said we're popping off like a month ago, aren't. It's hard to track it. Yeah, it feels like the one constant has been no mad Land right right, And I don't know about that. I'm not watching another Frances McDorman movie. After three billboards, there is happening. Feels like your dance cards should be full. After dog Wow, you know that that phrase has really started to roar back. Oh yeah, it's

for me. It's very much like that's gonna be a note for meat dog. And also no mean I've been saying, yeah, saying not a lot. I mean that's a note for me dog. How a resurgence I want to say in like two thousand and fourteen as well, like it keeps sort of like the rhythm of it is really interesting, and I have noticed that it's it's making a return. American stays footpressed on the girl's nets the way that

they try. I'm not over it. I'm not over First of all, I'm not over any of Katie Perry's fashions. And I say this as a Katie Cat who's appeared as a co star in her music video Katie K

you better imagine not being a Katie Cat. How humili pop songs of the best When when the chorus hit the first time I ever heard it, I screamed, I screamed, and I in the words I screamed or Katie's back and the music I was music video her with the like cry curly wig and like her fucking tits out in that amazing flowing gown standing in the middle of that field, like the servation, the servation. I also had to laugh when she got in trouble for all the

appropriation she has done. She goes, what's more white woman than intense therapy? And the whole song was about therapy. I was like, this is so funny. I just couldn't believe her pivot. It was a pivot. Indeed, we're happy for Katie, I feel and I'm just gonna say this out loud. Katie should come on. Oh okay, absolutely should Katie should come on. She should. Okay, she loves you. You're she did comment l and you are part of

the Katy Perry Cinematic Universe. Think I'm part of the KPCU, and so she should be part of the lc you are. You are only some ways the scarlet Witch of the KPCU in many ways because I'm really a part of Phase four, you know what I mean? This is certainly Phase four of Katy Perry and I being the star of it. Katy Perry, I'm the multiverse of madness. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And I did get the job through chaos magic. I can't talk about how I got it, but it

was chaos magic. It can only be described magic. For Metro would be my vision is really is your vision? How get it all along, the staying power that this will hand of the summer, Oh my god, I can't wait for everyone ever used to be blasting it from their sucking speakers this summer. And also think about think about, oh this is so nerve, this is so the things I get nerdy about. No, no, no, Well I loved I love that it was them, And my favorite one

is the nineties one, which is like, um, what is it? Uh? You make it it up as we go along. I just thought that was such a good parody of a song from that time. And I also love that the d do do do motif that the like thematic motif appears in all of the songs. So that's the kind of ship that I like like to nerd out about. I watched this really cool. I watched this YouTube video and it was just talking about that. I can't wait

for the Agatha All Along Thunder plus remix. That's exactly what there's There's so much opportunity there and for to know that Katherine Han is going to have a number one dance chart. Absolutely, I'm in the studio working on it now. I'm going back to my DJ days and I'm going to remix that trick. Yes, yes, you are the person to do it. You're the person to do I'm actually not I don't have the time or the inclination.

I also just want to point out I pointed this out on Instagram, but I am obsessed with the fact that Jane Kasmirik and the cast of Malcolm in the Middle are part of the m c U that that like Jane has Merik could have disappeared in the Snap after Thanos like like like like you know, it's like it's an actress in the world exactly. That's what I'm like, That's what I'm saying. We can I ask a question of the two of you, who do you think would have disappeared in the Snap. I would have Yeah, he

would have. And then it would have been like the oh my gosh, so bone would have disappeared in the Snap and then it just would have been the grief of the public would have been so overwhelming just and no, it's true, there would have been because of the population, like Leaves, there would have been a huge public funeral for this hole in the world exactly, and I would have There would be some people on Twitter that said

that they wish it would have been me. Oh my god, wait, okay, I have I have to ask the same question about Rose and our friend fran Toronto. Between the two of you, who would have disappeared? What either of you have? We both would have, or or neither of us would have that's beautiful or no. It's more likely that I would have and he would have worked really hard to fix everything, and then I would have gotten back and been like whatever, yeah, good, Okay.

That's the thing too, is like I I would I would be tireless in the crusade to sort of get Balang back on the planet, and then he would get back and he'd be like, oh god, I'm so tired, Like since I've been back, like I'm so stressed out. My schedule is so full. Everyone wants to do interviews and I'm like, too tired to you can be tired culture, And I'd be like, are you fun and kidding me? I've been grieving for years, girl, I didn't tell you

to bring me back. I was fine. I was fine off in the soul stone whatever, like floating around being actual dust. Also, if I had to go, I would love to go in the snap because it looks like it doesn't hurt at all. They're just kind of like like Elizabeth Olson dying in the snap is like it looks like a fucking orgasm. She was like looking at the sky like me. But when you come back, honey, you talk about a reveal, talk about a shock. Like when Monica Rambo came back in the blip or whatever

they're calling the reverse Snap. I guess they call it the blip and she was just like what and then she has to realize her mom was dead? Girl? Snap me again. I'd rather go back to the snap. Come on. That was sad. Yeah too sad? I think all right, so after I go usually bone ghost. So Bowen, do you have a I don't think so, honey. Yes, I remember you said you did have one. Okay, so Bowe and Yang this is your I don't think so, honey, and your time will begin now. I don't think so, honey.

We're a year into this pandemic and people still are fucking around on zoom being like, what are my audio settings? How do I change my output? Uh? No, you're a fucking bitch to know you've done it many multiple times. You're not, you stupid bitch, and this is not even just you I've encountered a lot of people recently who are, like to our very zoom illiterate. And this is this. This does not include the people who like, don't have access to technology or don't have any proficiency with that.

I'm talking about people who have been using the same software for a year now and still not knowing how it works. You have to start like you catch up to the basics. All I'm saying is catch up to the baseline so that you don't have to waste any time so we can start this podcast on time or I'm meeting on time. I'm sick of it. I need to want to learn how to adjust their inputs and outputs in their audio. And that's one minute. What a

superior ugly? I don't think so, honey. That was all of a sudden, and it was so funny how we said in the beginning of the podcast that bone was hot. You look so ugly doing that, I don't think, sonny. You look toe up ugly. You look like going to a taste bitch. And I was discussing and I spit it out into the trash. That's what I say to you. I feel feel very uncomfortable because I also had zoom issues when I came in so this, but Rose had

resolved her as immediately. Please, no that's not true. That's true for nothing, but but but to just take a peek behind the curtain here, we actually had to have a microphone taken to Rose's house. Didn't even have them. Your producer is amazing. She came with a very cute dog to my vernment. I got to I got to have the dog a little bit. It was she was

running overall today looking cute. I did feel very important having a hand delivered to me, absolutely, And I just think it's so superior and very d n C energy of Bowen Yang. He is a centrist to sort of say these things about um, you know, technical proficiency. It's like, okay, yeah, everyone, everyone just figure it out. We've had a year to learn this. And Bowen actually wants to say he is endorsing Andrew Yang for mayor. So, um, that's exciting. He's excited.

He's so excited to endorse Andrew Yang, who currently I think it is he's stuck on the street on the egg trying to get to the Bronx. But otherwise he was going to come on at the end of the podcast, but he couldn't make it to uh couldn't make it to the internet because he's stuck on the train trying to get to the Bronx New York. So best of UCTO him. He does have Bowen's endorsement, and I think it's time for Zoom. You're the andrew ing Zoom. You

don't know your fucking way around. You're don't ever, don't ever do that to me again. You say that you're an angel to me all the time, you were your feels above incubus to me. Just what you said, that's that's really sad that you would have to use the word bls about as a negative when we have a witch here. Okay, so you're just asked backwards and look ugly. So anyway we have this actually is let's get to

the important ship here. I also want to say before we do this, I really appreciate that y'all pronounced my last name correctly from the jump. Oh with with the people. People really usually don't get that. It's like damo UM, and I always sort of explain no, it's like you're saying I'm going to dom you. That's what makes it so powerful. Thank you for that love it. Um, that's you. You really are you really are, allies. I want to

say that I came in here not being sure. I really thought, yeah, this might be rough, this, this could be a tough, this could be a tough interview. And then I feel like you said, um, you welcomed me in here, and uh said, this is where you're meant to be. Yeah, and it is. And we earned our ally ships stripes. You did well. You're both trans now, thank you. Yes you will. And no I don't mean honorarily. I mean there are your producers coming to your individual

homes with vials of estrogen for you to inject. Yes, yes, I'm happy about it and it's and no, this is this is and it didn't take you to confer that onto us, like this is who we are. Okay, alright, So look, this is after Rose has truly dubbed us. She's gonna dumb the reader with I don't think so, honey, and it's time to start that Rose, damn use, I don't think so honey. Right now, I don't think so, honey. Wine.

Are you going to tell me that you're going to take one of nature's most bountiful fruits the beautiful, brave and swash it and stomp on it and let it ferment until it turns into this Vina gree acidic alcoholic beverage. Are you kidding me? You couldn't let it become a beautiful raisin or turn it into some nice grape juice, or just eat it as it fucking came from nature. You have to let it turn into alcohol so you

can get seconds, you can get wasted. And people are always telling me, oh, you're not drinking the right type of wine. You should drink white, you should drink red, you should have them relow. You know what. White gives me a headache, Red gives me heart and burn. They both give me a horrible feeling and I don't want to drink them ever again. And people who based the whole personalities around loving wine, like wine culture, I don't.

I don't think so, honey, wine culture. Get a hobby like build them up greens that um watch one division. I don't know, do something else. I don't think so, honey wine. And that's one minute and can just for you. I have done one on specifically prosecco, for the exact same thing you said, Like, yeah, if you're gonna order a prosecco, you might as well just order a fucking terrible headache. I I don't. I famously don't like alcohol generally, but at least like liquor, I can, you know, you

can like mix it with something whatever. But but yeah, but like wine is disgusting. I think this also kind of stems from I one drank like eight classes of man of chevits at at a stayer at my grandparents house and threw up all over their bathroom. Um, but wine is disgusting and just like like wine culture, the culture, Yes, that's what, Yes, the culture. Wine culture is not culture. If anyone ever asked me out on a date and they I mean in the before times, and they're like,

do you want to go to a wine bar? Do you want to go get a glass of wine? I have a really lovely sharas at home. Do you want to come over and drink it? Uh? I don't know the phrase lovely sharas. I would be like, you need to go to jailin wine in my transgender home. I don't think so, no way, no way that it's just

you know what it is. It's it's it's exactly what you said, it's an excuse for people to sort of galivant about and and and pretend they're interesting and pretend they know something about something when really all they're doing is getting drunk. Sure, sure, now I think you're so. Grape is one of the nature's best fruits. Grape is one of the most iconic fruit. And that weird. She's that girl. She's that girl. There's weird. She is the moment. She's got a point. Now. I think there's this crazy

anti raisin sentiment bubbling up right now? Are you noticing this? People are really hating on raisins in recent years. I haven't noticed. I haven't noticed a surge towards anti raisin. Stupid. No, there's anti raisin culture happening, and it's dangerous and it is stupid because raisins are some of the best food. That it's a it is a UM. It's invading our schools UM. And children need to be educated that raisins are a delicious, healthy snack. UM. And grapes seated or

otherwise are delicious. Two words for every reader listening right now, raisin brand. Name another legend. You can name another legend, and don't come to me. And don't come to me with your honey nut cheerio bullshit. Maybe you want fiber, She's serving you fiber for days, fiber down, Raisin brands, create power bottoms, and raisin brand, Yes, that's true. And also she's giving you a texture medley in your mouth,

the mouth feel on raisin brand. She's saying, I'm not just one thing topped only by like, um, what's that honey nut bunches of oats? Girl, I don't, I don't even know about that. I love, I love, I love a textured cereal if I'm going to have a cereal and raisin very much. Really, she has the blue for all these other hosts. She is the blueprint. It's actually a real culture number seventy. She is the blue for

all these other hopes, for all these other hosts. And I also would like to commend you for being brave enough to talk about the violence that goes into wine preparation, because it's a lot of something plucking, juicing, you know, processing,

It's really it's it's not. When I saw Lucille Ball stomping on those poor innocent greats, I mean violent, and that was the first trauma I experienced, truly yes, I'm honest to god, I didn't know wine was made like that until that episode of Violet Lucy came on the TV at Niked Knight, Oh niked Knight, Nick Knight. I mean we could go on for two more hours. When Rose has her super villain movie, the cold open is

going to be her watching Lucille ball stomps. But my super villain is gonna I will be an actual villain. This will not be like this, will not be like this, will not be an apologist rewrite. It will be a straight up villain origin story. Yes one. I don't want any redeemability, no wine, no thank you, just just cold heart cereal little shots because you know what you're well, let's not pretend. Let's not pretend we're not. We're at Roses.

You know, premiere party for the Supervillain Argent movie. Everyone's bottoming after so you have to be eating Raisin Brands fiber up. Yes, come on, come on, I see it all, I see it all. I'm looking the venue. Yes, that's wo that's the right around the quarter you're in pre pro because I would imagine it's got a budget, a budget and a half. These superhero movies, they got a budget and a half. Look y'all, this episode, like we said last week, roses Taste Taste Stop, and you know

that it was it was a crack of lack. And when you look over at the timer and it's beyond two hours, come on, I want to say again, I'm just so grateful to be here and you you both really have like saved my sanity during quarantine, especially the part where I've been super isolated. Like it really just like there are nights when I just listened to this podcast and I don't feel alone. And that is that means that such a wonderful thing that you give to people. Also,

thank you for that Rose. That means truly the world coming from you. We we have loved you from Afar for so long and then like and now I just feel like I don't know. We're all, We're all, we're all pals like within our circles. You know. It's it's so we're sister hood, sisterhood, you know, Boon and Yang, we do, in act end every episode with a song

we too, We too, We Too. I killed my fall I started because you know that was that was crazy, because you know what I was gonna do Dorothy, which is like very the opposite vocally, very east coast, west coast. I don't know Dorothea, and that's gonna be. That's gonna have to be something that changes before next week when you want to do a track by track of Evermore, Oh goddamn Well. Tune in next week to see learn the single words of the album every Moore, Bye Bye,