"Tertiary Markets" (w/ Katie Crutchfield)

watch the footage. Was it fun? The footage like it's like it's a security camera. We won't get into this chania is is much more complicated than people realize. Shania as a as a Canadian coup is complicated via v American politics. Guest, that is what you're getting at. It's not even that, it's just that like, what an interesting career? And what an interesting and I love the way you point and bowa said, what an interesting career? Like I sort of like, get off my finger. Yeah, but you

extremely exquisite career. I mean interesting to say the least. I mean country pop strattling the line. I mean between genres, crossover success. I mean losing her voice because of a bad divorce, regaining the voice, and then sort of, you know, using that voice to say that she'd rather vote for the one who is the straight shooter. We don't have we don't have to talk about this, but I have I have a question to ask you, which is which is a better Come On Over? Shania or Christina? God,

this is like selfie's choice. Okay, So here's what I'll say in order to sort of swerve the the topic. I'm gonna say, come On Over as an album, which really Shania was coming Over. That's an incredible album, and I I'd be curious to know if Our Guests appled in that album because and the face that she's making would suggest guests. But coming Over as a single Christina, of course Our Guests has one of the most expansive musical palettes I think in the world. I don't doubt it.

I don't because you can hear it in the tunes. You can hear in the tunes. But also like I think, she she just knows her stuff. You know, someone knows their stuff, you can tell. Yeah, a student of the form becomes a master of the forum, all right. And the reason I The reason I throw that out there is because I know our guests as a Birmingham native, which we'll get into, and that really means country music of the house down, which you can hear in the

latest album. But I didn't know if that sort of crossed over into Shanaya country, which you know is a different kind of country. It's more oh and less like you know, Tammy, why not we'll take them take the country out of it, because okay, these these are these are some Alabama legends. Our guests Glimmer, Thomas, Yes, and Flow Millie ship bitch actually exactly right. So and I

think this is like the full millieu. I think our guests like really like I think she like she she She's everything everywhere all at once, you know, one of the great things to be on so topical of you, and so I'm sorry not to not to invoke, but um, I'm just so excited toes here. I I said to you, she came on the zoom something electric passed through me. Yeah, I mean you are a real fan from from from really the beginning from go oh yeah. And the thing too is like, what a beautiful way to open up

our next episodes. Bow truly we just came off three d episodes that it was our Great Global song Book. You've just heard the Great Global Songbook, which we have yet to record at the time of this episode, but we just know it's going to be a treat for the ears. Trust and believe that our guest is on it mo times. Um. Anyway, we're so excited she's here. She is a wonderful musician, singer, songwriter p S. Eliott with her wonderful sister Allison. Oh my god, Allison Allison

is legend. Okay box a hatchie. Um, We're so thrilled she's here and she's not ton now she's on the st Cloud. Yeah, I mean, she just she will have by the time this episode is that she'll will have just performed at the Hollywood fucking Bowl with him and that's unreal. And she's finally getting to support the album sat Cloud, which is huge, which is huge. Um, so everyone just please check her out if you haven't already, and welcome Christ, Welcome in your glam. I am just

in heaven immediately and immediately in Heaven. Well. Likewise, I was shocked to learn that you even listen to this drivel. That's stop that's really that's really, that's really like my core. No, I am such a reader. You guys got no idea. Uh, I was thrilled to be. I've been looking forward to this for so long. I'm it's such a it's such

a it's such a thrill to have you. And honestly so, I'm going to see you at the Hollywood Bowl and it does not actually be my first time at the Bowl for you to write never been, Yeah, never been, and there you aren't taking the damn stage. Yeah, here we go. It's gonna be I mean, it's a first for everyone. It's gonna be great. How do we both feel? Do we have any do we have any sort of hopes dreams with the night will bring? What kind of

sky there will be? Oh? You know, it's I think it's going to be just like easy across the board. I don't know if either of you've ever seen him, but like they put on, I think him is the best band. They're so incredible and you know, we actually we did see him Bowen and I did see him when they opened for Taylor Swift herself, but she was really being Taylor Swift that night. The World Tour at MetLife stage Um Bowen and I had I'm gonna say

thirty six dollar Margarita's put it. When we were not we were we did not have the means to We had no not a two nickels to rupt together. But we did get there. Him was just beginning. They were incredible and just truly truly great. And then and then Raps to Hatche did a cover of three Am at Forest Hills when I thought we did yes, we did the steps and I'm sorry it was the steps. It was it's okay, yeah, we get the steps. It's okay.

You know. I'll say this about him, It's like they have not only do they have this sort of instrumentation down and like that kind of prowess, and they also are like incredible performers, but they have the most important thing, which is the songs. They just so yeah, that's what really matters. The work. It's about the work. It's about the works. As Bowen so throwing his hands in the air, I will say, like, even like their first album was obviously like a huge, huge success across the board, it's

not everyone loves their second album. I love that. Yeah. Today I was like I was, I was with some people and they were like, oh, I didn't love the second album, and I'm like, second album as want You Back, Want You Back is one of my favorite songs of all time. I can listen to it any time, and I also think it's one of the most impressive music videos. That's oh, I completely agree. I love the second album too. Sherman Sherman Oaks never looked so good. I I'm just

really thrilled that you're here. Katie. Katie, for some in some ethereal way, I was able to, like not that she was able to do anything, but like somehow I like cleared my schedule for her when she just reached out one time, it was like like a year ago, and you were like, hey, like, I don't know how this started. I have no memory of this. I just the first thing I remember is just meeting you and eating like a quick little brunch and it just being

like a really sweet, wholesome time. And then I was like, I couldn't believe that you were like talking about like Taylor Swift, understanding what Taylor Swift meant, like you knew like the people in the in the milieu of the podcast. I was like this woman and I was like does this does this person know? And I did end up telling you this is my wax. The Hatchie Story. Listen to p. S Elliot in college was like love this, Listen to Sisalt, listen to the Ruins. Her second album

was like this is wonderful. And then it was Ivy Trip, her third album. I was on a plane back to New York and I was like in this woozy I was drifting off into sleep and then Eric came on rocked my world. I said, oh, this is like I'm a lifer with her now, like I am, I'm with her for life. It went from like just like appreciation and fandom to like full awe and wonder I don't know what happened. Oh and I had no idea. You took it all the way back to ps Eliot. Yeah, amazing.

I was like managing like my fan girling around Allison when we met, and I was like, Allison's just so cool. Any it's so funny you bring up Ivy Trip. I was kind of hoping that you would, only because I made that album on Long Island, which I know is Matt Rogers, where we're exactly about Suffolk County, you know, so I got there. You know, that's that's very much my stomping ground, is it really? It's slip New York. Oh, oh my god, I was so I was spitting distance

from there. I at the time that I made the album, I was dating this guy and we were talking about like I was like, I think I want to go to upstate New York and have like a rural moment. He was like, he was like, I'm I actually have a better idea. Let's go to Long Island. The same the same thing. It's not the same thing, but the bagels are better. They are, and you know what, Like, like I was super hardcore to drifting at the time. The drifting is amazing out there. It's so good. I

see that. I grew up there at a time when it was like you were not thrift ing to be cool. You were going to like Abercrombie and Fish, which, by the way, I can't wait to watch this documentary that's every everyone's everyone's talking. Honestly, it's a perfect name to white Hot for that documentary is. But like that was so I didn't get to like experience the cool drift stores that you're speaking of, because it was all about

go to the mall and look like everyone else. Yes, And you know what, I really picked up on that energy when I was out there. Yeah, I'm sure you did. But I will say, like, listen, people, they have their their hearts are in the right place. They just don't know anything other than Long Island. But I will say this, they know how to make bagels. And is it them or is it really something about the water. I don't know, but you cannot get a bagel anywhere as good anywhere

else in the world. And they try remember remember bagel Boss? Oh do I remember bagel Boss? Did you have a bagel boss in Birmingham, Alabama? Absolutely not. I have no idea. No, no, no, this is this is not be No, it's not it's what's the the guy who went to bagel boss? Oh no? Yeah? So okay, there was a vil video. There's a there's a bagel chain Katie and it's called bagel Boss. And my local bagel Boss went viral because some guy went in there and he was like starting in with the

girls that worked there. Maybe he was was it a mask thing? Bow? What was? No? This was it was a Trump it was it was not a Trump thing. I think No, it was just literally he went there. He's he was a man. He was a short king as well as we call him now in the culture. But he was I guess someone made him feel a certain way. Someone maybe chuckled or made fun of him for being first appearance, which again not okay, but then

he kind of it was a short feu. He completely lost it and the the the it was known as the Bagel Boss meltdown, and I was like, is that? And then I realiz it was absolutely my town's bagel Boss, where I don't at people to be afraid to go because the bagels are incredible. Right. Hopefully he didn't ruin it for everyone. I mean, but see now for a late person like me or for someone who isn't, you know, accustomed to Long Island, I feel like that's that's my

that's my association with bagel Boss now and with bagels. Yeah. Yeah, did you feel the Katie that at least Long Island offered you creative inspiration and you felt like you left there with good work? You know? The things that about Long Island that's really fascinating to me is that it is there's really only one way to get off of Long Island and it's to go through New York City through the densest craziest traffic, so people in a sense

are sort of trapped there. Yeah, And I thought that that in many ways they're trapped there, and I found that to be. It's it's dark, obviously, but it did. It did definitely. I mean I I felt trapped there sort of two and there was no other thing to do but really focus on the work. And you think. The thing too about it is like it is a

beautiful place. I mean, like and like one time I left because someone, an adult in my life, referred to Long Island as one of the most beautiful places in the world, and I just I just thought about, like you know, like I don't know, like you know, like Bura Bora, like I felt I felt about like the many places in the world. I started to drift off, like the coral reef, and I really started to think about Long Island as being called one of the most

beautiful places in the world. And I was like, you know, that's funny, but then bow isn't it true. You'll sit on Fire Island and you look out at the beaches and like it really is beautiful. So there is inspiration to be had. I completely agree and hold the phone because I woke up this morning and saw the Fire Island trailer and I just gotta say, you, guys, I can just tell from a million miles away that you nailed it. I mean, what's not about that? I think

we nailed it. I nailed it. I'm not even gonna be I'm not even gonna be chilled at it, I truly, but I really, I just how you feel about albums. It's like, I don't think we'll know until until it's out. Well, I don't know. Actually, i'd be really curious to know your guys take on this. With when it comes to TV and movies and stuff, but with albums, it definitely feels like up until it comes out, it's really just yours, like it just belongs to you, and then the minute

that it comes out, it belongs to everyone else. Um. So yeah, I guess that you have to go through both things, but I think that that that's that's very true. It must feel like that with music too, that's so personal, especially like this last album, which you've talked about, like how it was different creating it from others, which we'll get into but it is really that thing of like

you fall in love with it because it's yours. And I remember, like when we were stopping shooting Fire Island, like we were posting pictures and I was like almost scared to like say too much or post too much because it was ours, not even because I wanted to give anything up, but because it was that moment of like, this is only going to be for this group of people, like probably it is with you and your band, or you and people that you collaborate with for so long,

and then you give it up, and then it really does become everyone else's. And I would imagine, especially with something like st Cloud, which comes at a time in late March when everyone is really craving something to sit with all the time, and so I would be curious, Like with all of your work, yes, that idea of it's mine, now it's everyone's, But like, what was that

like with this last album because it had to be magnified. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's funny the subject matter of the record just weirdly kisimately sort of lent itself to what everybody was sort of collectively going through. I could have never predicted it, but you know my my best friend mar Um sort of at a time in my life when I was really struggling to perform and just feeling like really overwhelmed and tired and overworked, would always

tell me, like, it's not really about you. It's sort of like you have to look at what you do as an active service. Everyone who's come to your concert needs to be there for one reason or another, and it's it's bigger than you at this point. You have to just go out there and really give them what they came for and like see it as an act

of service. And that's really how I saw Saint Cloud coming out when it came out, because the shutdown happened two weeks before, and everyone is bouncing off the walls like what are we gonna do? Are we gonna go on tour? Are we gonna are we still gonna put this thing out? Like we've put so much time and effort into it, And at the time, it just felt like all people are going to need this more than

they ever need music. So can I tell you that um my first like happy, I've told you this in person already, I think, but in case you forgot my first like happy memory something resembling Happiness and Lockdown was me cracking open the window when it was a nice day out. And this is like the last week of March. I think, Can't Do Much had just come out. You just released Can't Do Much as like a promotional single or something blasted that on my speakers, open up the window.

Was too afraid to go outside, but was like, at least all open the window and feel the fresh air on my face and listen to this like lovely freewheeling song of you know, I just and and then the album, the whole thing came out and I just, I don't know. It's that thing that we talked about, Matt and I talked about at least with like Dualipa with future nostalgia, where it's like that album will like have this place in our hearts forever, and I like the same cloud

is that for me? Just just an album that could not have come in a more necessary time for me? It really was like You and Do the same, So it's like it's like both the energies were satisfied. It was like the spectrum You and Do it being like you know, Yin Yan's to Yang's is pretty cool to me. I love future too, so I yeah, it was cool

to sort of be in it with dua. Yeah, but then it comes it comes out, and like, but I I I'm so curious about that, Like, do you feel like the fans were even more intense this time around because of what it meant and had to mean? I I think so, you know, I mean what really happened, which was crazy, is like a lot of growth for me.

I mean I've been doing it for so long. It's my fifth record, and um yeah, I mean that was the thing in that intern time between when the album came out and when I actually got to tour it. I mean it's like a year and a half past, and it feels like my fan base like doubled in size or something. Um so that was yeah. So so in a way, it does feel more intense, and it's been really crazy. I don't think i've checked in with

you since the tour. I mean we've texted each other, sorry or just this is me bragging, Um, but I checked with you a couple of times. But I feel like I haven't gotten like the the real time assessment of like what what touring has been like for you? Because I know kind of really dove into it like for every prior project, like you would tour like the whole like like the fifty two weeks out of the year, and like it was it was a very immersive thing.

And now like is the relationship different or is it overcorrecting based on what happened with COVID, Like like is what like what are you noticing differently besides like the size of the audience. Gosh, it's so it's so different. Um, you know, one thing and not to immediately go negative. But the one thing that's been so crazy is my

stage right. It's really wild. I never had stage right even kind of in my whole life, and it kind of picked up late last year, but like all of a sudden, I'm just really in my head and it it goes in waves, like I'll have sixteen amazing shows and then like a couple of bad ones, and then sixteen amazing shows and then a couple of bad ones. But that's something that really caught me way off guard, and I think must be a weird sort of thing that has to do with having not performed for two

years or something. Can I ask you when you say when you have when there's a couple of bad ones. How do you qualify a show that's gone well or a show that's gone badly? Is it a thing vocally that you're feeling throughout the show? Because I wonder about how you feel as a singer if like, um, are you someone that's like really on top of their voice and worried about their voice? Or is it a crowd response thing or is it just an energy? What is

that for you that separates Well, it's so funny. So I am like, when it comes to my voice, I'm one of those people that like, doesn't even I do warm up, it doesn't even I never lose my voice. I'm just lucky like that, which is it's exactly so it's rough. It's rough, but it's sort of like it's just it sounds like a voice that would go but it doesn't. And I am so grateful. So interesting how that's true sometimes because I hear what you're saying, because

you do have a quality of like. And that's what's so great about you as a storyteller vocally, is there is a quality of like, whether they're like it's like it's seen things and you you would think like, those are the voices that go, but then you still have like fucking Melissa Aside ripping it up. Let you know what I mean. Like some people it doesn't matter what the tone is. They're just healthy. I know. It's I'm so grateful for it. There's some grit to it. She's

she's seeing some stuff. You know. Yeah, still it's still it works out. But you know, it's not really my voice for me. It's I think it's like one little thing will happen, like I'll trip up on a lyric. I have so many lyrics, and there is the vocal rhythm is really challenging. You know. Um, I'll trip up on something and then I will like spiral just like, oh no, am I going to forget another word? Am I going to do something? You know? I'll just get

like really kind of shaky about it. And um, so that's been a new thing for me that I'm working on. But is this why you bring up with Marrow is saying like it's not about you. Yeah, that does help, Like that does help me to kind of remember this is just a like I'm such a perfectionist and so hard on myself. I think that when I I say one wrong word or I sort of miss a word, and I suddenly completely turned on myself, like like you shouldn't be here, like what you know, like just sort

of really go dark with it. And I think that, you know, I do try and channel that like this is just like fun and this is a rat concert. People are dancing and they're having a good time, and like I'm allowed to make a mistake. I'm I like try to kind of challenge. This is bigger than me. This is about a big shared experience. It's not about

me being perfect. No one's expecting me to be perfect, but sure as I am expecting that of course, and that that makes sense to me, Like I I, I really I don't relate because because we don't, I don't do what you do. But like I feel like there's something kind of blunt about the way Mars said that. I feel like that's something that only a best friend could tell you. Oh yeah, yeah yeah, because because anyone else saying that you would take it, I would take

it the wrong way. But because when because when someone is getting in their own way and you feel like as a best friend, like and I can say this as someone who works with my best friends a lot, like when they're getting in their own way. It's both it's both frustrating for them because you you see, it's so much clearer that like it's not a big deal and they need to get over it because they're possessing

that power anyway and they are that good anyway. But it's also like, girl, we can't take up our time with this well you know what like that, and it's like and you can never see that yourself, like you always feel the need to like exert this thing of like, oh this happened, and I'm feeling like this. But then you do have your people that are like, no, listen,

it's good to have that. I'm sure you two are that way with each other, you know that kind of that kind of honesty you need, like you really need that. I think I think we are. I think we are. Yeah, Matt, Matt. Matt is more just so much more clear. It's just

so much clearer about it than I am. I I tend to sort of I think I'm clearing up my brain fog a little bit because I'm like medicated now, But like, like I think in the past, I would have trouble communicating something to to you because I wasn't sure how I was feeling about a situation. Well, I feel like any time, any time, there's like anytime there's

like a self consciousness that is related to ego. And the thing is like you are capable of what you are capable of, Like people did come to see you and they are like they're enrapture in what you're doing, and so like if you don't know the words like

they do that. That's the cool thing about like going to a show where you're on the bill is it's like you have people they're supporting you, and at that point it should really only be a party in a celebration because we've all opted into the experience of being here together because we're excited about what we're all doing,

which is we're enjoying you're performing. And it's so I can see why people why some people would get um the stage fright for And it's not that I can't see why people get stage fright, it I guess moving forward, it's like if it's something like you know, you're performing on an award show, or you're like you know, doing some paid thing where you know the audience is not there for you, or if it's like a particularly small or particularly large event where there's like something attached to it,

then I can see it. But in almost every other circumstance, there is that opportunity to just be like, we're all here together, like like for for this, Yes, you're so right, and you know what, something that's been really cool. That's been really helping me my whole life. I've been like sort of eyes down or eyes closed, or eyes sort of glue to the exit sign type of performer, just find a spot and stick with it and just completely

sort of dissociate. And at my shows recently, I feel like I find a couple of people and the people and those are my people, and I'm like, you're my person. You're making me feel safe, like we're singing together. If I don't know the words, you do. So that's that's been really cool. Let me ask you this. When you go to a concert and like the performance isn't what you expected it to be, do you walk away with

any sort of judgment or resentment on that? Like I've never like gone there have been I've been a bad concert, sure, but I never walked away from them thinking well I like that that person or that act less. Yeah, No, certainly not. I mean, especially because if I love the records or something, you know, like that's I still have the records. Maybe they had a bad night. It's you guys are really helping me. Actually, you're really helping me. Okay,

really have some great points. Okay, I'm only one week in therapy, and all of a sudden, I'm like, but don't you think it's rooted in the perfect example. Okay, I remember going to an Iron and Wine concert. I was they I love them, but something in my energy was was was off. I was nodding off the entire time terminal five, and I was like, I gotta go home. That's tough. And I went home, and for a second I was like, well, it's because they were they were

being sleepy and boring. But then I go, no, it's me And I don't love Iron and Wine any less like today than I did in two thousand nine or wherever I went. And I don't know, I think that's like I think I think it goes both ways. Like everyone's just there to like just to listen to to like either performer listen to music, and that's I don't know. I just this is this is such an original thing for me to say, but I missed concerts and I just love going to the Yes, this will this will

be my second one. I want to go see Charlie x X at the Greek um so So and I'm just so psyched that it's going to be you and him because I just feel like that'll be a fun show. You know what I mean? Because I know, and that's it's funny you bring that you we even talk about this because energy and a crowd like at a time concert, like you know, it's gonna be people are gonna be ready to see the girls, especially hometown show. Absolutely, it's

gonna be amazing. I'm playing a cool thirty five minutes and then yes, oh my god, that's a lot. That's great. It's great, it's great, and it's it's a lot. But I I mean every night at my shows, I play an hour and a half, you know something like I get to kind of get the night of I get the highlight it's nothing but the hits, and then I just get to watch time. It's just heaven. Yeah, I

can't wait. I am. I think that the wax of Hatchee crowd is very very unique and beautiful and sweet and perfect because I feel like you are a very well traveled is not the right word, but I feel like you've you've like picked up pockets geographically, whether it's like people in the South, people in Kansas, people in like Philly, people in New York. I feel like you really like amassed this wonderful, eclectic following of people who

like wouldn't otherwise like come together and watch you. Not not that poudn't otherwise, but it's like, you know what I mean, It's like, I think you've really cultivated this wonderful allowing as people who like, I don't know, like I feel like I feel like I would be I was, I was the Forest Hill Show, and I was like, this is a wonderful crowd, and like it feels like a great mix of people. It was not like a homogeneous thing in any way. Yeah, I hope that's true.

I mean I feel like I really pounded the pavement like some tertiary markets you know, over the years, and those are important. They're important and it's paid off, you know. I really feel like kind of low key the best shows of the St Cloud tour so far have been like southern college towns, you know, like just I love that I mean, I love the big city shows too, but those are the ones I get a little jittery about, and the I can really like let my hair down,

and like Fayetteville, Arkansas, you know what I mean. It's just it's just easy. It's so easy. Bentonville is you kill it there? I had a friend moved from l A to Bentonville, Arkansas, and then he said to me, He's like, you gotta roll through Bentonville. And I was like, I don't think I will. But then I'm thinking here, like maybe it's important. I'm not. Yeah. I'm very curious though, especially with you, to ask our question, because I feel

like we're going to get a very cool answer. And also I would love to say, let's not even be beholden to music. Obviously we're music lovers here, but like, let's spread our wings. Um. So, Katie crush Field, what was it the culture that made you say, let's just say culture is for you? You know, I knew you're gonna ask this, obviously, and I thought about it, and there's a lot of different directions you could go with this question. I'm sure that you've heard that before, and

I'm sure you guys feel that way. But the thing I really wanted to talk to you about and kind of drill down on is UM. And it's actually sim we can we can veer into what you guys were talking about before me in UM. The thing I wanted to talk about is the chicks at UM. I t I UM. You know, I grew up in Alabama, as you guys talked about, and UM obviously grew up on country music in the class. You know, you're Tammy's, your Loretta's,

what have you. But I country pop was like my like of the eighties and nineties was the thing that I really is huge for me. And when they hit, I mean I loved Shania I loved Come On Over. I have this like very vivid memory of being I don't know, maybe in like fourth grade or something, and Titanic had just come out and my cousin, my like cool older team cousin like sat and told me the entire plot from start to finish. It took about an hour, and the whole time in the background, we're listening to

Come On Over. That's that is such a vivid portrait of a time, truly. Um. But the chicks, like when they hit, I had never heard anything like that before. I mean, it brought all these elements of bluegrass and it's like legit real country stuff into the pop, big

old pop up. Yeah, exactly into the pop world. And when I think about, um, you know, voices with a lot of personality, which is what I really want to have, you know, I think about Natalie Main's absolutely she her emotion is there's almost like there's like a like an extra vocal cord, which is just to make sure that like her, her emotion is there, Like you've she she can't help but show how she feels when she sings.

It's absolutely very cool. Capital as storytelling, I don't know that anyone Well this is me like being very cursorily literate and country music, but I feel like nothing no better storytellers than the chat. Well, look, it is tough because can I just say cold day in July? Are you kidding me? Look, this is not to take away from the Chicks, but I'm just saying, if we're gonna be talking about country music, let's just say female country

music storytellers. People sleep on Tricia Yearwood on Tricia constantly. She's in Love with the Boy was my first favorite song. It was my first favorite song as a little child, and I listened to that song. We actually I've worked on covers of that song, like I love Trisia, I adore Trisia, Thank you. I'm trying to have like big Tricia hair today. Yeah, it's giving, it's giving. I will say this there there is there's a song that no one talks about, this this is Me You're talking To?

And oh my god, you guys. She there's a couple of acoustic versions that she does, but it's basically and I thought this was I really needed this song. Talk about really needing a song at a time. But I had broken up with my boyfriend and I was realizing that things were going to be different when we saw each other. And this is Me You're talking To is a song about how she says to someone that she

runs into. They have like a weird conversation where they're not saying the thing and she's like, wait, but this is me you're talking to, like remember me? And then she's she lists this these things that like only they did together, and like the intimate moments that are thrown away when you throw away a relationship, like but it's still me. And I just thought that song is so beautiful and still re telling on j Harry did that on Small Talk anyway, Um, okay, I didn't mean to

beat the prolative about the checks. It's so easy. It's so easy to be like they're they're they're one at the best. I don't even start talking about I think what we're like sort of dancing around too, is that. I think that it's like country pop music. It just takes you deeper into a story than than any other pop songs. You know, it really it takes you. It takes it a step further. Um, it's beautiful. I mean opera pop music. Yes, it is. It's like it's like

a minding of the emotion. It's like you know, any Martina mcbrad song, you know what I mean, Like you by the end of it, you've experienced a musical Angel? Are you kidding me? Like Independence Day? Independence Day should be a musical. I mean, where is it? Where is it? I know? I have full stories in these songs, full stories. It's beautiful. I have struck up a friendship with Wanona jud and she's amazing. I mean, she's just that it's huge, and I always am like that's her story is a

musical and with you even the songs. Are you kidding? That's a hit on Broadway. I mean, SuDS are legacy family, they are for over, they're reuniting too. I'm like, I gotta get to show. Yeah. Absolutely, I think. I think you're at a pretty cool time now where you're like I think because because you're hanging out with Lucinda Williams too. She's she's more like, well, you guys, breath you guys have struck up for you, guys have truck up a friendship.

I would say. I would say that I am such a big fan that I was like annoyingly buzzing around for a years and then she was sort of forced to be like, who are you Okay? Yes, cool, you can sit with me for an hour and that's you're hanging out? What we're hanging out? I I mean she is to me, she's my favorite of all time. I think she's I think she's the best songwriter period. Wow, I believe it. And to get to be in in her orbits so cool. Have you ever brushed elbows with

Natalie Maine's and the girls? God no, but I do you know? The chicks are playing at the Greek in l A in the summertime and Jenny was opening and I'm like, that's my dream show. That's going to be I know they really, I mean, she's another one we could if we could have taken it in that direction, to the Jenny Lewis direction. But let's let's let's do it for one second. And I want to talk to you about Fiona. Oh, let's go. Okay, I'm also on that person done with the chicks, But what's what's do

a quick detour? Okay. Jenny Lewis saw her in Chicago. Um and all she plays all the heads, but then she ends. I think she ended with arms outstretched and it's the perfect song that everyone in the audience can like chant along to and it just makes me cry every time. So beautiful, so beautiful. I love her. She took me out. I mean she was I would not have started playing music probably if not for Ryle Kylie.

I feel like I was into country and like also like you know, kind of grew up into musical theater and like it was definitely a performing arts kid, and but then got into like punk rock and sort of like Harsher more indie music and um, Ryle Kylie is sort of like this intersection of all of those things. You know, she sings beautifully and like the melodies are more palatable, but it is still sort of idiosyncratic and like left of center. So it just I was like, Oh,

that is the thing I want to do. I think I think you found it because I think because I think I've heard you say an interviews that you want to use you might aspire to be like genre less. You know, that's my favorite, that's my favorite. I think you're there, I really do. I mean because because like I don't know, it's it's tough to say because there's

elements and everything. And then when when you talk about your influences, like I'm almost surprised because it's so easy to get caught up in like what did you ever want to sing? Like that big country music? Like a woman stands behind a microphone and a gown like that. I don't know. I mean, I have been like wearing a lot of gowns lately, but I think that I don't know, I could see it, you know, because there's something glam about it. It's glam and and that's so fun,

and that's so fun. I someone wants described pop as like the sum of everything, you know, like if you zoom out, pop meodies are just the sum of everything. And so in that way that that's sort of like what I always want to aspire to, just something that's it's it's universally sort of understood as melodic and big melodies and pop and and like lyrics that aren't pretentious but are smart. You know. That's that's kind of what

I'm always going Everyone has a home in it somehow. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Wow, I love that. I love that a lot. Is this a potential direction you're going to go in? Oh my god, Bowen, I don't know. I mean, I am so maybe. I mean, you know, who I really love. I'm so curious if you guys have a relationship with this person. But who I really love and have been trying to emulate with the songs I've been working on sort of slowly. Is Tom Petty? Um? Oh my god, you know I get

that too. That makes sense, right, Yeah, Like he's really that of like the sum of everything. It's it's a little of this, a little of that, and it just equals big, huge pop songs. And you know that's what's you know, what's so funny about that? When Tom Petty played the Super Bowl a while back, I remember being like, what the fund is this? And then it actually makes sense because it's of what we're saying. Everyone has everyone, the American Girls like everyone. Everyone can latch onto it

in some way exactly. Yeah, so yeah, maybe in that way. Um, I'm so far from I'm way farther from a new album than I want to be. You know what, it comes so fair. Once it starts coming, it comes, So that's how I am. I just have to wait and then all of a sudden, I think it's so it's also okay that that time didn't come during the pandemic because it was such a shift of life, you know what I mean, Like, and we were we had Marion

Morris on the show. Um, the episode comes out soon, but she was talking about how like the pandemic allowed her to be creative, but it wasn't out of like an impetus to be creative. It was more of like, oh, this happened, and now I'm going to deal with the fact that this happened. And then you know, in terms

of like touring it or putting it out whatever. And I also feel like there's something to the fact that, like you put this album out on Mary like it has not seen its life through, Like you are someone who discourse with their music. You must go out there and play this music life like. That's probably has to do with it too. Absolutely, it's it's basically like this state of arrested development with its yet yeah, exactly exactly, She's still in the nest um. So yeah, I think

that's really true. It's just it's the longest album cycle of all time. It's no complaints, no complains. The three of us have something in common, which is where we've all We're all Bellhouse Growl. We've all performed, isn't God? They would? It would be insane, But you could come back and do a show at the bell You can probably do like a whole week at the Bellhouse, like the summer. I would. I mean, I'd love a little Bellhouse residency. Moment. God, such a cute space, honestly, and

also for comedy, for comedy rock. It really, it really is such a fun night for comedy. I've I've also seen such wacky ship there. I saw Point Break live there. Do you know about point Break Live? So it's sort of like a rocky horror picture type thing, where like it's like the actors are acting and out and everyone in the crowd is like a die hard point break plan and like nose the interacts with it and it's

like one of those. But I saw that at the Bellhouse, and now looking back, it's so reads as a place where that would be because it is interactive, you know what I mean. That's kind of feel really good, especially as your music is getting probably one of the time at the time you play this, when it was getting bigger, it probably felt like full in a way that was so exciting. Absolutely, I love like a stage where you're you're just in the room with everyone you know. It

feels super intimate, but but also like really alive. It's Yeah, it's a great, perfect space. Love it. We love the Bell House. Okay, Okay, that's what we did. I don't think so, honey live, those are our best memories live shows there from you do um Okay, next detour, Fiona, I've heard you say that. Well, I think you and I both share a deep appreciation for either wheel that might I know, I think you might be affected the bolt Cutters girl, But I think I'm I'm an Eidler,

real person really all the way. Yes, nothing against fetch a door Fetch I think it's great. It's honestly, that's probably my number two at this point. But Either Wheel is like a masterpiece in its own right. The lyrics Iidler will hit me a little harder, I think, yeah, because yeah, yeah, because I would say that's just more like I think it's Fiona at her most distilled anger, which is which is everyone's favorite thing about her, and

like and like it is this beautiful thing. Like Fiona like flips the whole like you know, scorned woman trope on its head, and she like doesn't give a ship if she comes off as like angry or unhinged or whatever. Like that's just the beauty of Fiona. But I feel like Either Will was the most I don't know, I just there's some distance, like from whatever that album is about. There's some space between her and that and and and

I feel like we fetch it. You're so right, it's so distilled, it's so raw, it's so angry, and that is like you know, if you were to sort of distill Fiona down into like a couple descriptors, it would be like angry and you know, so I think that that it is sort of like the highest dose of Fiona that you can possibly get. And there's something sort of nice about the space and I the Wheel for me um where it is it's almost it almost comes off as like more thoughtful and poetic and um, whereas

Fetches just like raw um either really came out. Oh but we're we're all around the same age. It came out for me after right after college, Matt. It was right after college. It was and it was like this album that like the summer of I just like I could not stop listening to. Like the last album that I had that with was like gwen Stefani l Amb. It was like this album that I could not stop listen. There was nothing from that pointwelve and nine year gap,

but no, it was. It was. It was. It's one of those albums that you get like once every decade, honestly where you're like blackout thet's down dead. But either Wheel was like I was like you remember that time, Matt, Like I was like miserable. You were not happy, you were not I was not happy, and like it was this album that like I could like like I don't

know as that was. I think also during any transition time in your life, the albums do jump out, Like I remember, I remember it was Ingrid Michaelson's album when we were in um the song Forget About People, Blood Brothers.

I love that song and just like whatever the album was, I'm losing the name right now, but also right before then, like Tegan and Sarah for some reason, those that at the end, what was the heart throb heart Okay, I the first time I ever toured Europe was opening Fortiguing and Sarah on the Shore and they Heaven on Earth and you guys should have them on the pod. You really should. Honestly, they are so funny and they were they just like delivered so many like nuggets of wisdom

that I still draw back to now. I mean, they gave me so much good advice and we're just so warm and welcoming and amazing and they're the best. I mean, drove me wild. Like I remember when they when they put out that song, is like how dare they do this? Like it just feels like I don't know. It sort of reminded me of like that moment when Liz Fair went pop and I've almost like suck her, and I was like, what are you talking about this? She made one of the best pop songs ever. Why can't I?

Oh my god. We just so we pump up every night before we go on stage. We like someone DJs and we just like dance, and someone put that on a couple of nights ago and we all just went off. We just got It's one of those that everyone's singing

along so good. The bridge also, I mean just purely like the chorus the what kid, It's such a genius hook that I think people then this is how I feel about like people's quote unquote serious music people sometimes is that it's just like it's an anger that things were fun and that it could be that easy for someone to be also that commercial. But that's just what a genius she is. I mean, don't hate her because

she's beautiful exactly. And I think that that album was was one of the Pitchfork albums that they apologized for. They apologize for the lie because they give a zero point zero rating, and that's just like, come on, I mean, and here's the thing. I am like a die hard Liz Fair fan of all the early stuff, Like I think she Eville is, but it is, like, I mean, it's undeniable that that song is. I remember at the time thinking this is an amazing how could she Exactly?

It doesn't just sneak into romantic comedy trailers, guys, you know what I mean Exactly my accident, it's not in the fabric of the movie so that it's in the trailer like it's something someone has to create and it's

perfect for that. But yeah, I um, it's just it's those formative albums that I think attached to a time period, and for you, you're also saying it attached to an emotion, which was I think the pression I'm a tulip in a cup by growing up, Like, like, what an amazing genius lyric that the first I'd say, like four bars of Valentine. That song, it's some of my favorite lyrics that have ever been written. That's I listen to that song and I'm like, this is why she's a genius.

It's so oh my god. They're that lyric about like her eating dinner and it was salted with her tears or something exactly good. And then Hot Knife, which is just just percussion and her her vocals later on top

of each other. Genius. Okay, now back to the checks, back to the check, Well, could I just I just want to say, like it's I'm just so excited that they're going to play like in l A. Because I feel like that is their crowd now, like that crowd that goes to to these shows like that, and I just it's um, I mean, for me, it's it's weird to say because they're so formative and they live in

our hearts because of what they did earlier. But I mean, taking the long way like that, just like I just feel like that's as a statement after everything that also was the best music they had done. It's just and also I feel like they now they can really be quiet and introspective because there's nothing about them that's trying to even then the smaller songs like really entertained. They just need to express and it's like that's why I

really love their new albums. And talking about a Pandemic album that was incredible and I did not think this last album got its do but Gas Lighter, that whole album was great. I completely agree. And you know what's really powerful to me about it is I think about the chicks and growing up in Alabama and like how important that band was for women, and like, I feel like there's so many women in rural like in the rural South and just in rural America that like, I

have never even heard the word gas lighter. They don't even know that. The concepts of that are like maybe new or foreign. And that's so powerful that that's this big, this big pop music that sort of has has these these bigger concepts. I think it's just so such a cool choice and so like I feel like the way that they felt, the way that the Chicks famously fell off and like you know, making these bigger political statements, it's just so like Chef's Kiss that they finally are

kind of getting their time. Yeah, Yeah, nothing more satisfying than that. I hope. I hope that they're like just absolutely relishing in that. But I hope so too. I remember taking a long way like sweeping at the Grammys that year. Yeah, I think both as a statement for the time and also because like that music was genuinely

so powerful. I mean, not ready to make nice. The second verse, it's iconic, it's iconic, it is it is just a primal cry against everything that had happened, and also for it to have for it to be the second verse and the highlight of the whole song, with the emotional center priests of the whole song. There's something in there. It's just so cool, and you know, it's one of those songs that you see covered but it

could never know. It's like it's like I don't want to miss a thing, or I will Always love You, or any of these like a classic iconic songs where it's like there was a moment and there was a voice that did it, and it's just iconic and it once you try to emulate it, you're just emulating it, or you're not. You're not matching up in terms of what you're doing with it. It's just one of those

songs that matches artists forever. Yeah, completely agree. I really admire Katie, that you are, that you like, you like covers, that you like performing them, and I wonder what your processes in terms of choosing something. I mean, I I treat it like I treat my own songs sort of where I just anything that makes me feel really lit up and excited is usually kind of what I gravitate towards. Um So anything I can just picture like, oh, this is going to feel so good to sing. Um. So

I that's how I've been picking. But I mean we're doing we're doing two right now, but we you know we are. I'm always like throwing ideas out of my band, like can you guys like learn this by sound check? You know. Um, that's kind of how we keep it fresh, is just introducing new covers into the conversation. It's it's so good do you do? You do? Listen you do? Fruits of my Labor doing Friends of my Labor, um, lot of a clear bood morning. Those are the two

were doing right now. Okay, great. But then one of my favorite covers period Jessica Simpson with you, Oh my God. And I listened to this all the time like it's it's it really is just one of those because because that really, again it's just a well written pop song. You know, it's so funny. So I guess god it must have been. Lena emailed me and said, I woke up in the middle of the night and I'd have this dream that you sang with You by Jessica Simpson. I think it should be in the show for it.

She was, well, it was for the Girl's soundtrack. So she wrote me and was like, I have this idea and I thought about it and I was like, I cannot picture how to do that song. That's I'm I feel like pretty confident about my ability to tackle most songs, you know, Like I love making songs my own, I love interpreting them, and that one I was like, I am drawing a blank. But we did it and she loved it, and now people it's it is when people a really like but it's surprising to hear. It's like

one of those things when you're doing it. It's like it starts and you hear the words and you're like, is that it? Sure is? Yeah, it sounds removed enough in the best way from the source material that you're like, hey, that recognition setting in is just kind of a beautiful moment of like wow, totally absolutely. I appreciate it so much more now. At the time, I was like, it

was ten years ago. I was like angsty, kind of like took myself too seriously and was like I have to sing these lyrics, you know, And now now I appreciate it more. Yeah, do you who who is your favorite pure pop musician? Do you have one god, Um gosh, yeah, I mean I pay pretty close attention to pop music and and do like ultimately think it's the best music that's currently being made. Probably. Um, but I mean I

love Taylor, I love Beyonce. You know, I feel like those those two are the ones that I sort of think are the high water mark of like pop songs right now, because again, like I said it, for me, at the end of the day, is really all about

the songs. Yes, yea, you you recorded sing Cloud and Long Pond where Taylor was and then but then you you said this to me one time where you were like where you feel some sort of artistic connection to every one of Taylor's eras in some way we were really aligned for a second where it I remember when n came out right after that Ivy Trip came out, and it felt kind of like kindred in a way, like they were both sort of these like like a new direction, you know. Even the artwork is like sort

of similar, you know. Um, and then reputation came out when Out in the Storm came out, and those are the ones that are those are really tied in my mind. And then um, let's see, I mean the Folk and Cloud. I feel like there's some parallel exactly, and they're they're kind of pandemic albums, you know, a hundred percent. So Red and really Installed it was I think Red and Is really installved. Yes, So I didn't even think about

that one yet. And I mean Colors, you know, Colors and like and a little bit of a breakthrough for both because Red was sort of her first real step into pop music and um, yeah, so I I've always sort of we're the same age, you know, And yeah, I'm always just like, yeah, we're on We're sort of plugged into some kind of similar way length. I think, yeah, do you feel like that Bowen like did were we are our reputation era? When she really reputation? I think were I was? I was I was. We all needed it,

we all needed when it came out. It's perfect timing. That was the return to Saturn. I have to inform you. Reputation era was the return to Saturn. And that's just the way that goes. Wait, it was mine, it was mine. It was because we're all on the same age. Yeah, it was mine too, Saturn, and I think it was hers too, And she emerged a butterfly and lover. Absolutely a colorful, prideful of butterfly. I know, I do actually think that St. Cloud is sort of lover and folklore

kind of yes, married, yes it is. Wow, I need the beginning. I mean, I hope that you guys felt like butterflies after your Saturn return. I certainly absolute, Oh my god, no, I've never been more of a lover era than when I first left. I don't think I still think I'm going through. I think I'm still in my Saturn return, are you? I don't know? Two? Like, I don't think it's it's like eighteen months. Yeah, it's like a time of like twenty seven. Saturn works differently

for me. I think, okay, icon, okay of the time. Wait wait, wait, I've already asked you. I mean the sun, the sun? What are you? What are your what's your chart? What are your three? What's your chart? My Cafricorn, which I really identify with the dolly of it all? You know? And I let's see, I'm a tourist rising and a sagittarious moon Okay, very grounded, very on earth. YEA a whole lot of fire in there too. Yeah, absolutely definitely What are you? Two? I should know this, but I'm

a jot. Pisces water water excuse rising Pisces cancer moon. Oh my god, watery water never stops? Do we do we? I'm divisive as a Scorpio. People clutch their pearls. No, I love you, but also you see what he just did. What he just did, making it a subject of debate. Oh, I love it. All the boys in my band or water signs, and I just I surround myself with the water sign man. It's really it's what I like. Is it emotional? Yes, that's what I need. Yeah, I love that.

I'm sort of the grounded, sort of like center of the circle. It's really it makes me. It really gives me a sense of purpose and it's great. Yeah. I just Oh my god, Katie, I fucking love you. I love you too. I'm so I can't tell you guys how excited I am to be here. I just I'm in heaven. I mean it is it is a true

honor to have you here. Here's the thing. So it's like I feel like like the expected, like Katie lost, college is going to be We talked about music the entire time, but I also want to know what the funk you were watching and I want you to tell us give a please a picture of your sorry, but media diet, we must know. Okay, um, let's see what am I watching. I just finished Bridgert in season two. Okay, did you guys watch Britain? I didn't watch this season.

I watched the first season, but because I heard that in the second season, like there's not even any drama about where any come goes. It's just like sort of like a straightforward like dating show. It is. It's a really straightforward It's a lot of like heavy breathing and like sort of like longing stairs and it's very Jane Austen. Yeah, we love that, so that I mean, it's funny because I'm on tour, so we don't. I don't watch that much TV when I'm home. I watched a lot of TV.

But I'm in Salake City right now and everyone is all my boys are like freaking out about real housewives. I'm not. I don't want the boys. Are A couple of my boys love real housewives, and like we're in Salt Lake City and I am just sort of like I feel like I could get into this, and I know I know that you guys like it. So yeah, maybe that's Stalic City might be my entry point. I don't know, you need something dumb to watch? I need something, God,

I really need something dumb to watch. You're so right, that's what it is. We all do. It's just just put it on and then you I don't know, are you what? What's the motive? Transportation? Is it? Is? It? Is it? Yeah? And what is that? Like? What is that bus culture? Like? Oh my god, thank you so much for asking. Um, it is it is not really that much more glamorous than living on a camper within other people. Yeah, it's like that. It's pretty much for this.

It's kind of rough in it. You know, it's cute. We have like our snacks and like our coffee maker, and you know, there's definitely like a designated morning group, and then there's the late night group. I'm in the morning group. I go to bed early. We live we like sleeping little bunks, um, and so I've made mine kind of cute and it has like a salt lamp and like a quilt and it's sort of nice and they're a salt lamp always does so much like you

never you never think about it. But got a salt lamp. Everyone, it's actually rural culture number thirty four. Everyone. I love it. It's I couldn't agree more. It just gives it a nice glow. And what color is it? It's like pink. Yeah, it's like a pink stink. Yeah, like the himal Land salt. Stop laughing now because mine is orange, bigger color blind, so was it might be a pink one rats rat He's got me a gun with the color could very

well be pink. But I think it's orange. It's like an orange glow, but a pink It turned off that so I think so, yeah, I think so. So you could say orange, you could say it emits an orange light, which is really nice. Well, whatever it's admitting is fine by me. And the salt lamp it stands. It's such as it's such a must. It's a must, It's a must. I agree. Has Kevin? Has Kevin seen you? Yes? He so. I played the rhyman on this tour, which is a very big honor. And I know I've never been more

fucking terrified in my life. And actually a so someone pulled a fire alarm any minutes before I was set to take the stage. We don't know. I mean that's what the fire marshal was like, we think it's a poll. We don't know, but it's either a malfunction or someone has pulled this fire alarm. Um. So that happened like three minutes before we're supposed to go on. So that was kind of like your wedding day, you know what

I mean a little bit. But then we got back on track and the show was great and it was amazing, and Kevin he came for a few days and he was there for that, which was really sweet. His new stuff is so good. Oh my god, it is so good. The record is amazing. I'm really really excited for him. I can't wait. I can't wait. Um, this is kind of inspiring. I don't think so, honey that even the fire marshals are like not sure what it is like because you know, there's that moment when when an alarm

gets pulled and everyone's like is this real? But then either that lasts the whole time and if it's a fire then good luck, or people are like, wait, we should like ask somebody, and if the fire marshals don't know, then what do you do? Absolutely, I was sort of like tunnel vision sort of like I just need to hopefully still play this show, and so I didn't ask any questions. I was like, we just got to get

in there as quickly as possible. And then this show happened, and now we're all sort of less scratching our heads, like what the hell just happened? Really funny? This is like, um, it's always like a weird sociological experiment when a fire alarm gets pulled and how people behave I'm like, literally, I'm it's it's like I'm look, I'm going over the conspt of fire alarms in my head again, and I'm just like transported back telementary school. And there was always

that will there won't they with the firearm? Go? Of course, It's like it was sitting right there, it's sitting right there. It's just like anyone's to pull I don't, And I actually I'm curious how many lives are saved by like fire alarms, you know, yeah, and you have to imagine like are they really that effective? Like and is there

a better way? Are there smoke detectors we could think about, you know what I mean than the fire like you leave it in my hands and suddenly it's like, you know, it's that ledge that's right there that you're not going to jump off of, but you're good, be good right there. Oh my god, it's like it's like it's like it's like a naming contest on the internet. Like you don't believe it to regular people to decide something. No, no, no, no,

I know. I will say it did inspire. What I felt from stage was that it really had inspired a lot of camaraderie because people all had to stand outside together for like thirty minutes, so when everyone emerged back into the building, they were more excited about the show. So it was a good energy to walk out too. But it was insane right on your running day. It's a good omen in the end, but sort of annoying

in the moment. It's a good story kind of even though I love more information, I can't wait for the details to emerge. At some point, I want the person caught him caught. I want to found that paint to

the show, to be caught and taken away and questioned. Roughly, I want to and punished to the fullest extent of the fullest extent of the lot I can what's like I don't know because when you were in elevateor school, and they always said if you pulled the fire alarm, you would get expelled, like they like it was the worst thing you could do. So what's I guess? I guess hardcore life imprisonment as the adult sort of you know,

did you guys have this? Like the urban legend in our school is that it's sprays an ink on your hand so that I know, so that like people can find you and like you know you're the one who pulled it. Like, I don't think the technology is that sphyated even when someone tells you don't be in this pool because this pool is a special thing where it turns red. And like I said, you tell the scare of the children into behaving, you know, fear based learning. Wow, I mean where did that get us in the end?

Nowhere we're all messes because now I have no I have no fear when an alarm goes off, I go, yeah, it happens here all the time my ampartment too, And you always get an email that's like never mind, it's never I mean, yeah, wind has a fire alarm really been Like it's a dire situation and you need to get out of here. It's everyone is so blase about them now. I that was we sort of all backstage looked at each other and we're like, are we doing this or are we staying? And then we eventually were

told to leave. But what was it like growing up in Birmingham? Like? What did you go to public school in Birmingham? Yeah? It was great? Yeah, yeah, I mean I do you have more questions? I would. It's such a it's such an opposite of where I like went to. I just wonder if it was, like it wasn't a very conservative environment. I guess this is my question. Yea, yeah,

it's curty. And I didn't grow up super religious or anything, so I was sort of surrounded by a lot of churchiness, but it was sort of like kind of from an early age, I was able to parse that and just sort of you know, I think, yes, exactly, Um, but yeah, it's so it's super conservative. But I also, you know, pretty early on was playing shows and like the city of Birmingham, and I mean, it's amazing. It's sort of I love the South. I think it's obviously has its

drawbacks politically and stuff, but there's a lot of amazing bubbles. Um, and it's just there's so much color and personality and it's just yeah, I think it's kind of the best. I love the South too. I love visiting there. It just got weird over the past couple of years because you're in your head about the cultural differences, I think.

But of course I really enjoyed being there. Yeah. I mean, you know, I'll say this, like kind of coming up in like a cool music scene there and stuff, I feel like conversations about politics were had like more openly because of where we were, So I sort of feel like I grew up with a lot of that. It all kind of being out on the table a little bit more. Um at least that's sort of been my perspective. But um, but yeah, I think it's pretty magical, you know.

I think that it's almost like because of that struggle, the people that kind of make it out or make it sort of um or just find like another way of looking at things then what's normal there. Um, it

makes it like that much cooler or something. But yeah, yeah, but I feel like I look at like, not to bring her up again, but like flow million, I'm like, oh, like this like this is this like works anywhere, but I guess it could have only come from Alabama, just she identifies with it so much and her and her stuff that I'm just like, I've always had the impression that like burbing him and I guess a Mobile like

she's from Mobile. Yeah, she's from Mobile. Got like like music town's kind of or some or some music culture there that like I don't know, is that is that? Is that I mean totally off? No, I think, I mean, I can't speak for Mobile. I I the first out of town show I ever played in my whole life, when I was fifteen years old, was in Mobile and it was definitely like kind of strange and haunted. But Birmingham, but I mean formally it's like we're in totally different worlds.

But I I for the indie scene in Mobile is like not totally existent as far as I can, Okay, okay, but Birmingham was like yeah, I mean I feel like I I came up playing all kinds of shows with like a metal band and like an indie band and

a folk band. Is like all the bills were really diverse because there wasn't like a ton of stuff going on, and that way I got like a heavy dose of all different kinds of music kind of all the time and then and they're kind of just like shapes you into an artist and a songwriter that like can sort of you know, aspired a genre lessness because you you knew early on to sort of co exist with with with with everything. Yeah, totally, yeah, And I think that's

really true. And you know, there's we were so adjacent to Nashville in Atlanta and Athens and New Orleans, and like we're really close to all those places. So I was always traveling to other like cool southern cities to play too. Yeah. Where where from? He is from Gulf Shores, which is like the very little there's like a little like tip of Alabama. It's down there, like right by the panhandle of Florida on the beach. We I love

wit too. He did a little time in Birmingham, I think, and I know he would he was in bands and was aware of my bands like that kind of thing. But we didn't know each other till we we all left Alabama. But you god, he's you're both so cool. He's the best. He's so great and so so funny. Do you know who I'm thinking of right now who else is genreal lists? Remember you're going to fall on the ground. Jimmy Buffett, Oh my god. He And that's why he's he huge, honey. And that's why mar brand

because everyone has a home in it. It's drinking exactly, it's just getting drunk. It's going on vacation. Everyone has a home in it. Everyone Like you listen to Jimmy Buffett to just feel like you're on vacation. That's brilliant. It's really really it's branding one on one. It's actually Ruler culture number seventy two. Jimmy Buffett is branding. Did

I tell you Matt that we wet? Like me? Kyle and Hide were planning like like a writer cast, like outing for work at SNL because like people just haven't gotten to hang out with each other um this year, and so we were like, it's gotta be close to work, it's gotta be close to thirty Rock, but it's gotta be like fun, like it can't be like some like random bars. You know where you gotta go. I think Kyle suggested Margarite of Ville. I was like, I didn't

know there was one in Times Square. There is wet and we had a blast. Yeah. I also is going to be the one to suggest Margaritaville because Kyle Mooney, I have it on good authority, is a Disney person. She loves Buffett and Disney are tied. They are absolutely they live right here and that they live right here, and I wish people could see in my hands, but right where my hands are touching, that's where they live. And literally that was my entire childhood, like going to

Disney World and being at Margaritaville. That's Long Island culture, though, Katie, I mean, if you didn't stay long enough to understand like the mindset that that you choose to go where you want to escape, that is only Margaritaville. I bet Jimmy Buffett is huge. That my parents used to go to Jones Beach like to Telegate and watch him all the time. And I feel bad because I never got to the point where I could do that. But like once, I say, I want the experience once and then it

probably is way too much. The experience of a Margarita Margarita Ville X concert where it's like screaming chaotic e girls and it's the funnest time in the world. I don't know that the energy would be as good. Whatever was was. It was Orlando, a vacation spot for you guys in Alabama or now. Yeah, my dad's from Alabama, excuse me, from Orlando, so we would go to visit the family. And it was conveniently located just right next to Disney World, which is really great for us as children. Know.

What was your favorite right or attraction? Oh my god, thank you for asking. It's been so long since I've been there. I think I love Space Mountain and I remember being kind of like finally old enough to do Space Mountain, just feeling like so cool it is. I think about it sometimes like it is just a roller coaster that's in the dark. You gotta you gotta go. As of late, because they really production value has really increased in the mountain itself, in the mountain itself, not

haunted inside the mountain itself. It's actually become a real spectacular. No, it's become a real specter track lighting every now and then. Oh my god, but Tron is coming to Disney World. Bo. Yeah, oh yeah, so Space not two point oh if you will, I'm happy to hear that. Um, when you're a haunted mansion person. Um, yes, but also I get spooked at that stuff still to this scared person. I'm a scared person, like I don't think going to like the really extreme

haunted houses during Halloween is fun at all. You know what's weird. I identify as being an extremely afraid person, but I do love the haunted houses. I really love to get out and run, you know, running, get out and run for your life. Yeah, well then is goofy Katie can handle it now? You see the humor, of course there's I mean, I'm a tronic. They're a little spooky, a little big, and this day for adults, for grown people like us. I think it's time. I think it

might be time. I don't. I don't think so. Honey, Bowen, what's this thing again? This is our one minute segment where we just dress down culture, dress it down, and sometimes it feels great. Sometimes you and I do an okay job at it. We've done it too many times. I think I'm gonna I think I'm gonna go for it today and try to be good. I don't mean to bring this energy into this the space. Sorry, yes,

it's you have something. I okay, this is this is huge let's do Let's have Matt Rodgers do as I don't think so many as time starts now, I don't think so, honey. Elon Moscow owns Twitter. It's like combine the two worst things in the world. Didn't give them ultimate power? How did this happen? How does one person have forty four billion dollars to just sort of, I don't know, throw at something like owning Twitter, which I

can't explain. What is going to happen if he allows Trump to come on for election, which is what I'm hearing, and this is the ultimate I don't think so, honey. I have left to give in my loins, hearts, spirit, gut. Please don't let Trump back on Twitter. Please? Can we not go back into this narrative? I don't think so, honey.

Elon Musk. From what I understand, you're sort of like an anthropomorphized like sort of like I guess, I guess the robot is anthropomorphized because it kind of goes and mover. What I mean to say is that you're sort of like a skeletal robot, and like, I don't know about giving you power over the social media site Twitter, which already in and of itself is evil. It feels like two evils, and I don't think so, honey. And that's one minute. I mean, it's it's tough. It's really tough

to understand that he's going to own this weapon. But I don't know if that's the way I feel when I hear that he's acquired it. Do you guys think people will like just leave? All I can say is I certainly left. And someone texted me today almost like should I leave? When I told them absolutely yes, oh yeah, if you haven't already. I mean, I think i'm he is vowing to make it, like to have it be so that like the bots will disappear. He wants it

to be like it's real people. No, of course, it's It's really just crazy how it happened within like two weeks literally, I think April nine was when he put in that ninth or that or something like that nine steak. And then now it's like I think he just like probably like talk to some shareholders and now it's like it is what it is. I guess that's what happens when you pay forty or billion dollars for it. Can

you even imagine this? This? This is the craziest part is that one time he was being a troll and he was like, I will pay the u N six billion dollars to end world hunger if they can outline a plan. And then they literally they called his bluff and literally presented him a plan and he never paid.

And then now he's paying forty four million billion, forty four billion to buy like the fifteen most successful social media So it's not even Twitter is not even like that big of a deal anymore, unfortunately, And I don't think it's gonna grow, like it's not like a thing he can invest in and grow out of like what it has become over the past decade. Like I just I just think it's a weird fucking move and it's

purely like a troll instinct. I think he's just doing it because he's a centric and like wants to do something that like we'll get people's attention. Maybe I don't know. Yeah, yeah, well it has. It hasn't me spooked, it has and it gives me the kb gbs um. Anyway, boning do you have? I don't think funny top I I sort of do. And he's going absolutely slay. Are you ready? I'm ready. I don't think so, honey, This times for us now, I don't think so honey. Lip mask versus

lip balmb versus aquifore. I'm in the tertiary market of being someone who is keeping track of the differences and looking up what the fuck eclusive means. I don't want to the fact that I know what ecclusive means in a lip balmb or in a moisturizer sucks because I would rather know how to like speak French better than I do. I would rather remember the plot of thirty seconds Severance after watching it one time through and going, I don't, I don't think I'm not dragging it, just

go I don't. I'm having a hard time, like launching onto something anyway, lip balmb. I think about you every day and night. I think about you every moment of the day because this feel like I need to top up on my lips and it's this thing. It's sisaphian. It feels like I I will never sort of like I'll never, We're never done with our lips, and I feel like this is just a prison that you know, the market is has created for us that we have

to buy it forever and different differentiate between different types. Yes, and that's one minute. What was that word you said, conclusive? Eclusive? And what is what is inclusive? It it basically traps

the moisture under. So for a lipop if a lipom is inclusive, the only way it's actually effect is effective is if you're moist if you like, moisten the skin below at first, and then like vassiline is pure, inclusive, thick rich, like you gotta lick your lips first and then put it on for it to do anything to you? Can I try something coming to the stage eclusive, I don't know, it doesn't really ring the you know the

name occlusive, inclusive, I don't know. And you like, actually, like, is there a way to just not have chapped lips? I don't think that that is actually an option. I think that we can temporarily moisten them with your bombs, your masks, etcetera. And then I don't know if twenty minutes later they're just back to chapped. I think that's just being a human, putting like an overnight lip mask on during the day. And I feel like I'm I feel like a funk up. I feel like I've done

something wrong. Really so you wake up and they're still We're still chapped, They're still chapping. Even just I feel like I'm I'm breaking the rules. I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing, and like my body knows, like, hey, this isn't a lip bomb, this is a sleeping mask. I'm just sitting here and thinking of a time. I'm thinking of a time when like we didn't have any

other stuff like the Little Women era. A little about what I think about what those women's those little women's lips, they probably were so chapped, like Syarsha needed much more chapped lips on the movie. I want to see the movies. I want to see the film and television in this country start with chaps. The fact that those lips were chapped,

I understand in their movie stars. But if we're going to really like be eclusive to the times, oh my god, we need the chapped lip representation because it was probably a nightmare and it probably felt unbearable and probably a cause of a lot more conflict than we're seeing in current films. Yeah, the Gilded Age, I want the chapped age, and you know also the dry skin all of it. Yes, yeah, like that they don't look like they don't look like that.

They were gross. They were gross. Thank you. Well, I think it's time for Kati Krutchfields. I don't think so, honey. And she said she has something. I kind of came up with one in this hotel room that I'm in. Okay, So it's art created in this very space. It's created in this space. You're like seeing it happen in real time. Wow, this is kat Kretchfields. I don't think so honey. Her

time starts now. Okay, I don't think so honey. Overhead lighting in general, how is the brightest, bluest, most depressing white the standard that we all just sort of accept as like a society, And like, am I in the doctor's office? Am I in a grocery store at two am? Like it is like just the general public not care about aesthetics in general, you know what I'm saying, Like,

I don't think so honey. It's you enter a hotel room and you flip the light switch on and it's just the brightest, most bare bulb that you've ever seen, and the only other option is to walk around and sort of meticulously turn on three to five lamps and find your light, Like I want to look my best. I want the people in my life to look their best, and it's not happening with overhead lighting. I don't think it's not. And that's one minute. Get to bring the

salt lamp inside. That's we need, see, that's what we need. That's why I have. We need the glowy, beautiful light like war. We need warm, we need warm lighting. We don't need this chilly, frigid blast exactly exactly to us. I'm spending a lot of time in dressing rooms and backstages and they are the worst offenders and I'm trying to put makeup on and things like that in that light and it's just not fun. Why I gotta be like that? That that should be, That should be the standard,

that should be like the peak lighting. I totally agree. And I don't know, I mean, this is the whole other I don't think so, honey. But that's sort of like newer iPhone, like selfie camera is so unfortunate. It's just so like it's just it's way t am I you know, um, and that I think the lighting with that has just been like it's been hard. Oh no. On the new iPhone, Yeah, the newest one. It's daily like, it's a lot. It's just too much info. It's it's it's a washed out moment, so it's an ore. Oh

my god. Well listen, I tried to set up my lighting. It gorgeous. You guys both like, I've got it overhead, but it's warm. It's not you have a warm overhead. See. I've actually been admiring your overheads this whole time, Like, how do I get that? Because it's great. I wish he hired a lighting designer when he got us l he actually hired a lighting designer for his whole apartment. So wherever he goes, if he even stumbles into some rough lighting, it's good, people will believe that it's yeah,

the lighting designer come in. People will think this is true. But I just make a name up. Yes, absolutely, absolutely, Wait, Katie, what a joy. But this is a true joy, and such a joy. Speaking of warmth, I think that that that's that's all you exude pretty much. It's just and that your shows. I can't wait fort to go see you and for people to go see you. So excited already,

I'm so excited. Bowen, give me my number. I'm going to try and come stay high and hang and like, oh, that's just I want to be I never meet Sudie. I want to meet Sui. We'll jam and wait to see the show. Oh my god, fun so fun. I'm so don't I wish you could be here town. A couple of days later, it's okay. I I blessed it. I think you guys just he blesses it. Not that you needed me to bless it though. I like your blessing.

Thank you. Duty will be so excited Sudie. Um, they listen to St Cloud on our on the first trip we both took after lockdown like end of May, and we just put it on driving in Long Island. Oh my god, I love that amazing. I'm playing, um it gets announce tomorrow. Actually I'm playing in Central Park this summer, so you should come hang out swear and my sister in span is playing too. Oh my god, you have

to come hang if you're around. It's the longest albums like in the world for one of the best albums in the world. So please check out Max and Hatchie on the same Cloud tour. Um. We close every episode with the song should we honor the guests um Culture, Yeah, why list bass Magas Janeyeds for more. Listen to you the checks, the checks on their first album, first album. Yeah, but of those facts musician historians here,