"TAYLOR/TAYLA"

Even though the cover of the Little Mixed single is they're all mermaids, like you must talk about those girls. I forgot about Little Mix, but yes, we must talk about those Holiday girls. Can't forget about them. There were mermaids on the cover other new single Holiday. But no. The word I was thinking I was not mermaid notes it makeup? No, even though I have been wearing makeup every single day for the last two weeks shooting my student to be hit series Hot Dog for HBO Max.

But that's not it. Well, make sure you're using you're doing a double cleanse. I mean, now you're you're kind of past the point of of of of the skincare adjustment. But your skin looks wonderful, by the way, thank you for saying. But no, makeup is not the word is it music? Yes, it's music. Music is the word I was thinking of. It starts with him, Oh my goodness,

And there's so much music to talk about. So this is gonna be a culture catch up episode is if you can't tell already, dear reader, Um, I was telling that earlier. The din of the requests for us to talk about chromatica Women in Music Part three. Uh, gas lighter, come on, Laura, and I mean, let's just stop it all right now and say, talk about how you felt when you stumbled upon the knowledge that Taylor was going to surprise us with a full length album. I think

it's still hasn't sunk in. It still hasn't sunk And I'll tell you what this is. My actual sort of journey with with with the reveal is that I woke up Um one morning to a text from you saying new Taylor album tonight, and I was like, in my groggy state, I was like, okay, like sure, kind of dismissed it. I don't know why, but like my instinct was just to dismiss. I couldn't my in my groggy stick. I think I knew my limbic brain knew I couldn't really process it the right way, so I was like,

it was a lot of information at once. It really was. It was really overwhelming. I will and I'm not even like under utiliz I'm not even like underplaying that word

downplaying it. It's like it was really underwhelming. Overwhelming. Taylor's albums are such events that for one to just kind of sneak up out of nowhere, I was like, not ready for it because I ever done this before, but and this is the event, and also you know, not to not to make it a about this, but it is a business, the music business, especially real culture number fourteens.

It's been hugely successful in the days that has come out, so there is something to be said about this sort of surprise attack the thing if you can pull it off, because they tend to perform really well, um for these big tent pole pop girls. But um, I was kind of like, Wow, I can't believe this is happening. And I immediately told Jared, who's of course a huge tailor stand and he prod to cry and cry and cry

for hours. Um. But what I felt was excited because of the images and the title of the album, because I've been waiting for her to do this sort of scaled back more singer songwriter, ree lyrical thing because I feel like that just feels like a natural progression for now. And I was excited about the promise of the album, And do you think it delivered on the promise? See here's the deal. You have an interesting response to the

actually the content of the album, I think. So I'll just say how I felt in the day it came out, like I was like not in the mood for it because I was working and I was busy, and I wanted to listen to more upbeat music to drive me and I just don't have Yeah, I didn't have the mental space. I wasn't like in the place to sit down and listen to it because I could have been, but I just really wanted to give it its moments. So for the first three days of it, I really

didn't listen to it very much. Of course, we listened to it the night I came out, like minutes after it was released, like sitting in a living room while straight people tried on clothes and and had conversations really disrespectful and we were liking it. But I was like, this is a vibe in a way that I need to, like really give this a second, so I haven't until today, and I really appreciate it and like it so much. Curious about what you were feeling because I have I

have thoughts as we go through the album itself. Okay, I see, and I'm happy to go down that sort of um um framework too. But we can do a track by track on this one, Hune. We really can. I mean, for all the albums that we're going to talk about if you want. And I love um but

I fucking love it. I think it's so great and it's and it's interesting because you and I have sort of casually and like everyone else and every other Swifty has has been like, Okay, her next album is going to be her going back to her roots quote unquote, her her doing country again or her doing stripped down. Um. But then Craig Jenkins and Vulture, one of my favorite music writers UM and Vulture was saying, how this isn't her going back to her roots. It's her doing something

she actually really hasn't done before. But but I mean in the package of this folk aesthetic and the cottage core aesthetic. But it's like the execution is still her doing what she does best, which which is songwriting and storytelling and imagistics, story story songs in that way. But I think it's fucking phenomenal. I God, I'm like, I'm I'm honestly taken back to high school, where I was doing the most like indie rock drag you could possibly

be doing. And I was standing The National like the Alligator and Boxer I fucking love and then um Trouble Will Find Me Too, which is which is more recent, Um, such a good album, but like Love the National, of course, like fingering myself to bonie Vere. Obviously at the time before the Kanye Color mean, even now, even the Kanye

collaboration was like I'm on board. I mean, lately, Bonnievera is sort of like like there's a whole like Father John Misty bonie Vere, like cottage chorusthetic where it's like, oh, that's like a male domain. And then recently you've had like you have your Sharon van Netton's, your Wax the Hatchees, You're, You're, You're like whatever is just like sort of your female artists sort of take up that space. And it's so good to have Taylor come in as this like juggernaut

in music and like pull it off so well. I mean, this is the thing with Taylor. I think Taylor and Gaga are on the same level as being musical chameleons, where they can really like try for something a different, a different, try for specific style, and do it maybe once and be like I kneeled it the first time, I don't have to touch it again. Like with State of Grace. I feel like she was doing you two

arena rock. She did it once and she was like, I'm not going to really touch this again, and I kind of I love that about Taylor and I think it's a great album. And I would throw Beyonce in there too, chamileon as well, because you know, while I've been in my Dixie Chicks moment, which I'm still very much in and we'll talk about gas Slider. I was also um sort of going through Spotify and remembered that they had that collaboration with Beyonce on Daddy Issues Daddy Lessons,

and and that's rule number Rule culture number. Daddy is the course of course. No, of course, Daddy Lessons is very much a different thing. But that's a full ask country song, and that's from Beyonce. It's just she's obviously capable of that as well. For me, here's my take on the album, because like love that this is what it is, this is her moment. I would even call this a concept album because it is modern folk tales, many of them. I think that in a way, I

think it can claim that title. For me, this is not my thing. But and I and I say that as like just this is not an assessment or judgment on the album itself, because it is quality. And I think that, you know, while the Quarantine is not quote unquote good for anyone, I think it's been a great space for her to explore herself as a lyricist all over again, because something that I feel was missing on

Lover was real exploration. For example, we'll talk about she had very contemplative songs on Lover though, but it wasn't it wasn't hitting, it wasn't scratching that like classic Taylor Swift that you want as a listener, So you didn't feel singular. And I'll get into this a little bit later. I specifically have a comparison between Mad Woman and the

Man that I want to talk about um. But for me, like I think as email as I got in high school was like dashboard confessional and there is some dashboard on here, you know what I mean, like Illicit of Bears. I was talking to Jarry before, like Confessional song down very much. So like for me, it's it's not my personal flavor. However, I know that when I need this album,

it will be very much there for me. Oh it's gonna fucking deliver, babe, I mean, And honestly, I might make a little playlist for you, Matt Rodgers, and I'll make it public for any reader who wants to listen to it. But like I'll put like Jesus and Mary Chane and like um Waxing Houchie of course, but also

like you know, Ladies of the Canyon era Jone. She's like the references here are so solid, and she's doing like you know, she's doing like Cockteau twins and cranberries and um, like sucking sixpences one the Richard and Natalie Brewing.

There's there's a lot of like nineties. It's like what a little fair became around the ton of the you know, like that kind of vibe in It's it's so funny you say sixpences on the Richard Jard said that before too on August and it's it feels like kissed me Yeah, yeah yeah, but so you say August like and we'll

go through, but just off the top. Like my favorite tracks on this album, I find, for better or worse are the ones that are more pop. So the one and August and you know, those are my favorite tracks, and Betty like those are that kind of pop even like country is pop. That's kind of where I'm living in the album. And so my favorite spaces of the album. But I appreciate and deeply love everything. So why don't

we just go from the top, shall we? Yes? Let me um, oh yeah, let's let's let's do track my talk, let's go, let's do track by track. So the one we heard this one together for the first time. What are your thoughts on the one? Really like it? It's it's it's I feel like and I'm gonna say something

kind of shitty. She I'll stand unfolkler and on lover kind of bift it with the opening tracks are not not like now the best ways in I think for for everybody and I thought she was going to do it again well from you, so you think she bifted on this first track. I don't think the one is the one that you start with that you opened this album with. When it started with her saying I'm on some new ship, I was like, I kind of was like, oh, no,

are we are? We are we here? Yeah, it felt like, um, I forgot that you existed with sort of that same thing where it was like I'm moved, I've moved on. It just felt like this sentiment that she said and like she like she has like I think she is like retreading like her very common themes in this album like she normally does, and she's of course we're not

giving her permission as listeners, and she does that very well. Um, but I was just like okay, Like I it feels like an alertomy and the fact that it's the first track. Normally her instincts are so on point with her first tracks like State of Grace and then Welcome to New York, We Love and um ready for It too, like Ready for It is such I love Ready for It opener

for Reputation, Ready for It. Yeah for the one, I'm just like okay, yeah, it's it just it sounds it helps says it's it's misleading in in terms of like the sonic quality of the album. I was going to say that it feels like the start to a different album than we get. Um, I don't like I feel like Cardigan should should be the first track something like that. That's more indicative of the rest of the album. That being said, like I think it's taking off the judgment

of it as an album opener. I love the song, like, I really like the song. I love what it's about, like and just in general, like the hook is fun, Like I just really like it, and I really I recognize that a lot of times, like like even I forgot that you existed, Like I think that's a really fun song. And I love when she's a brat, which

I'm kind of missing on this album. Like I love when she's like a pop star braddy, like sort of big sound, like I that's Taylor to me, Like that's you haven't called her Taylor Taylor once until just now, and I think she lost the tailor. That's because she's being Taylor and she's not Taylor, which is fine, I mean, and she is Taylor. That is what's on her birth certificate. It's really culture number fifty. She is Taylor. I mean, that's what's on her birth cert, and so she's fully

justified in being Taylor. Um, but I just missed Taylor on this Alice Taylor. Um, but I love the song. Yes, what was Taylor's first album is? I think it's It's I think it's Red. Taylor appeared a little bit and speak now to be honest with you, Like, but mean was Taylor? Yeah, she started to become Taylor then, and then Sparks Fly as Taylor, Sparks Fly is Taylor. I mean there's a lot going on there. And then Taylor was literally wrote half the album of Red, and then

Taylor was full on nine. I don't I don't think there was any Taylor on Taylor. Literally, she was like maybe she wasn't even Taylor on reputation. She was like, Tay, you know what I mean? She was something. Don't know about that. I'm not seeing enough Taylor Taylor. But anyway, I love the one. And then we go into Cardigan, which is the single what do you feel? Um? I like it. I think it's great. It's it's classic national to me? Yeah? To me? Is it is it too much? Nationally?

This felt like Lana cosplayed to me in a way where I was like, this doesn't feel like Taylor scripted, Yeah that this felt like Norman fucking rock qual Lana Um and I enjoy it and see I'm like, maybe I'm like critiquing each track in terms of like the full context of the album, because I like Cardigan in the way that it sets up other songs, like exactly like Betty like allstit affairs. Yeah, to me, this is

this is like where the album starts. Um and I her visuals for this are like exactly what she wants them to be. She is officially an old colonial woman who sat in the grass with her notebook and snapped, you know what I mean, very that, very that, And I really I love the uh you know what I mean? I love the little hooks, Like It's a great song for me. Just I had a question about like do we feel like this is a Lana del Rey song?

But do we do we care? Because while this Dreams is full Lana Dragon, it's one of her best and this is this is a big discussion that I have I find with so many people, I don't feel Wildest Dreams is Lana Drag the way this song is Lana dragged. I feel I felt Lana del Rey is not capable of the big sound that Wildest Dreams is. I I

just don't think that she does that interesting. While this Dreams is Laana dragg pre Norman fucking rock like like that's Lana Drag like um, you know, ultra violence, and like the first album was that called Born to Die. It's Born to Die Lana um and then this and then Cardigan is a Norman fucking rock. Well, but I I see what you're saying. Yes, sonically it's more lush than a Lana song, but I mean lyrically, this this song is like terrific and the entire album lyrically is poetry.

And we have to say that, like Patti Lapone said of Faddy Lapone, yes, I was gonna bring will say it's second, Taylor is a poet. This is an album of poetry. I mean, it really is, and that she has never written like this, I mean talking about we do have to say hold on by I was speaking before we move on while the streamst My last night in l A, Matt and I got stoned with Jared and Sudie and we were watching Taylor videos and while the streams. That bridge. You cannot beat that that is

that is one of her best bridges. And it's just you fully get finger blasted by that bridge. I mean you and finger blasted today. You were on one about fingers. Did you have you gotten fingered recently? I got fingered by me? No. I love that for you know that you're wi I'm not a sell finger. I never have been either. You know what, Actually Taylor could learn a lot from this, because you know, Taylor doesn't write about fingering.

But Taylor would give her too more years anyway, So basically she was talking about getting fingered in the second half of reputation. Sorry, um, but anyway, The Last Great American Dynasty. Oh wow, I love this. I love this song. I love storytelling moment from her. I love that she's you know, third person in it, Like I think it's really really cool and just she comes in at the end. Yeah. The twist that she said it's about her home in

Rhode Island, I thought was really cute. The fact that she wrote a song about it, I thought is nice. And the fact that she is that explorative of an artist like that she found some of herself and this woman that used to own her house. I thought it is something that's very Taylor and her vocals great, and I think it's a really satisfying song lyrically and vocally marvelous time earning everything is love that lyric. Um, it's

a beautiful song about property ownership. Let's give it up. Yes, Um, okay, so talk about exile exile. People seem that the hetero seemed to love exile. I don't know that. The rest of us who know about her, um sort of I think are brushing it off as like I just Bonie Vere on this track. First of all, he his balls finally dropped. That's what Rose Donna tweeted. Um, such a deep register, which is great for ms justin vernon. You know, it doesn't fully culm me until like they're both sort

of trading off lines and phrases to each other. I think it's fine, it's fine. Why does she sound Why does he sound like the by she I mean Bonie, she sounds like the Beast and Beauty and the Beast, the live action hon When when he started singing, I was like, who the fund is this beast? He sounds like Johnny Cash Like. I was like, this is not Bonie vere. It just jarred me in the in the beginning.

And then you find out that he wrote his lyrics and she wrote hers, and it's like, yeah, well, the quality difference in the lyrics that he wrote in the lyrics that she wrote are a fucking you know, it's it's a it's a difference to difference. Taylor is more versatile as a lyricist than so many people give her credit for it. It's very evident here where she can she can like retrofit her process to someone else's voice,

but a lot of people can't do the same. Like she's able to infuse all of these songs with like this like longing and this like specificity just like she really is and like but there's there's still a quality of like white female nous to it that's like oh yeah, Like I don't know, I don't know what I'm trying to say, but it's I think that she is just more in touch with her emotions and she's just more illustrative with her emotions, and I think she's interested in

her own emotions in a way he doesn't seem to be on this song. It's just just like I get that she wanted to be down and cool with him writing his own verse because I think she was excited that he wanted to be on it. But for me, the strength of the song is with her, and it really comes alive in the bridge when he sounds like himself again, like we've been saying, Taylor soft Bridge queen, and the song does sort of lift off and go somewhere cool and emotional, but the first verse, I'm I'm

just not into. The only sort of like moment for me is when they're singing sort of to each other and he's just like, um, you gave me no signs, and then she goes, I gave and then she sinks I gave so many signs. That's like when it gets interesting. But that's it. Yeah, My Tears ricochet lovely. This is great, and I mean this is so I love. Didn't have it in myself to go with Grace, Like it's about betrayal the imagery again and this song is wildly good. Ultimately,

it's about her getting sucked over over her music. Yeah, she wants those masters back. This is a song about Scooter. It's a very panic at the disco title. Didn't she think My Tears Construction would need to be eight more words long, but like my tears ricochet off the desk at which I sit and it's fun. Like then it would be a panic at this guy title. But love this love that Ricochet is in the song. Yes, Ms

Rich by the way, congratulations, congratulations Ms Ricochet Hula. Yeah, this song is great, I mean, and then we get mirror Ball. I fucking love Mirrorball. This is Jesus and Mary Chane. This is Magnetic Fields drag realness. It's I

fucking I see. Like this is like me, like there's this record store in Denver, twist and show hey Denver, um this this, I mean, yeah for for me, like this very speaks to this very much speaks to like the my sort of musical upbringing where it's like it wasn't until high school that I was like discovering like my my horizons were expanding and I was like going through crates and stuff of music and like discovering all these musicians independently, and I was just like, oh, like this,

like I don't know, I associate this sonic quality to just that lush, like deep vibrant sort of production on it. It's so good in her voice being layered in it's so nice. Was just gonna say a lot of it is the layering of the vocals is really really nice. And this is really the sixpence on the Richer Moment

on the Alu and again the lyrics. We could we could talk on every song about how good the lyrics is, but what I would what I pulled from this is the vocals are great, and um, she sounds great and just a tough lyrically, specifically when she says I've never been a natural, all I do is try, try, try, you know. Jared points out that that's like really who she is, you know what I mean, And it's a self awareness about herself, which is kind of cool to see,

and um, I just love that. That's it feels like lyrically, this is Taylor Swift in a nutshell. It's her coming to terms with like the thing that's sort of motivated her whole life, which is that she just works. She I mean, she's like she you can't know, I mean, like whatever, like let's just like put aside like any sort of like value in like productivity or whatever or anything. But it's like she just works so hard and she has she has worked for like validation from like the industry.

It's like it's it's interesting reading a lot of interviews um by Aaron with Aaron Destner. I read one this morning, well, im multure he didn't want Pitchfork where he was talking about how like he met Taylor and like how Taylor went to one of the Nationals or one of Big Red Machines concerts in Prospect Park last year she went with Anthony, I think, and um, which is great, but

I love that. I think I think Anthony is the perfect sort of like Cipher or the surrogate to like to like introduce Taylor to these bands, but like I'm sure Taylor knew of them. If Antony is the reason for folklore, I have mixed felings about that, but ultimately stops up. Um, but I'll stop but Aaron Destner, Aaron Destner was just like, yeah, like we met like she and like you can tell that like he respects. He

always respected the hell out of her. And it's like I think amongst musicians like like like like whatever, the general public's sentiment around Taylor Swift is like crested and crashed like so many in so many different ways and times. But like musicians, I think see through all that and like respect the a lot of Taylor Swift. I am sure that they do. That's why she has a million Grammys, you know what I mean. Like it's like, yes, her industry respects her, but also the people that make up

the industry respect her. That's why she has so many interesting collaborations. That's why she works at the best of the best. I mean, yes, or she she has a machine behind her that probably gets whatever it wants. But ultimately, you cannot argue with the fact that anyone can not anyone can become successful, but anyone with the amount of privilege that she had can become probably successful in some way. Not everyone can become the most successful and stay the

most successful. She is really, really, really talented, and we talked about her as a songwriter and a musician, but you know, in terms of her vocal ability, something that's happening throughout this entire album is she is really emotionally connected to a lot of this stuff. And um, even when it's like, even when she's outsourcing the experience to look through like another point of view, it's still like

so lived in yep. Um, I was gonna say, I was gonna say, yes, you're right about like anyone, anyone quote unquote could have reached this level of whatever exposure, but like not everyone can leverage their resources in this way. She knows how to direct her whatever energy, let's say, to the right people and at the right time, and conserve the right things and pull them out at the right in the right ways and execute in the correct way. And I think she's she's done that. The album gets

really strong for me around this area seven. I mean, this is this song is a moment. This song is about, you know, nostalgia is her best friend, as we and uh, this song is actually about a lot more than I think people realize because it's about I think a friend of hers that went through a trauma at a very young age. Um is what I'm gathering from my research. And just the the lyric. Are there still beautiful things? Um?

You know talking about and that very vivid painting of a girl up in a tree like looking down like her saying Pennsylvania's below her, like that moment of innocence is so captured in this and saying you peaked at seven. At seven, that's it's sad. It's really sad, and it's so feels like a quarantine song, you know what I mean, like a real moment of reflection. I mean, I don't

know if I know better songs then this matter about this. Yeah, Mirrorball I think is a contender for for Quarantine, for a good quarantine song, um which where it's like I'm hush, I know they say the end is near, but you know whatever, it's like. But seven seven feels like an Alice Monroe story. It's like so like tragic and like sad and about a girl which we all fucking love anyway,

Um seven I love. I just she's doing something you vocally, I think that we haven't heard her do before, just like like just singing up in that little I guess that's not really a mass where it's not really like a a mix, but it's like she's she's she's like she's like kind of straining in this very nice way. I don't even know if straining is the right word. But it's beautiful. It's beautiful. I mean, well, speaking of vocals, we get the album's one and only belt on August,

which I love. This is my favorite song and it should come as no surprise because I I've been saying that I, you know, gravitate more towards the pop stuff. There's a drum machine. Yeah to me, I specifically love this song because not only is it more in line with my sensibility in terms of not only Taylor but also just pop music. I love what this is about. This is about that um like a look at ephemeral

summer romance. Yes, it's about that relationship in your life that comes and goes and you, um will always remember it. And that lyric about it being like a bottle of sipped wine August slipped away. Man, it is so good. I'm about to be a fucking I'm about to be a fucking idiot. It's so First she goes August slipped away like into a moment in time. Yeah. And then she goes August sipped away like a bottle of wine. Yeah, come on, come on, a little subtle, subtle change in

the constant. Yeah, she nailed that. And also, um, you know, just she's again so good at just saying what we all feel and we're all like, oh, yeah, that is how I feel, like, cancel all your plans just in case you call. Like that feels like old Taylor in a way, where you're like, yeah, that's that girl, that's that girl we know and she and she's still um, she's still here in this thirty year thirty one year old body that she was when she was fourteen, fifteen

and sixteen years old. You know, like still grappling with this stuff and still able to articulate it in that pure way. You're like, yeah, that Taylor that you weren't sure, We're still there from reputation and lover which is kind of a mess compared to this album, if I if I do say so myself, Um, no real shame because it's still a great album. We just have such such a high standard. Um, it's really fun to hear this

stuff from her. This is classic Taylor where she has uh, she has a bridge that's like one sort of idea and then she repeats it again, but then like sort of with with this like accentuated um force behind it because you know, like I do, remember like she does, they canceled my plans just in case you would call. And then she comes back into it and dropped the beat drops out and then it like and the guitars

and the drums come back in like full force. The second time when she when she repeats the bridge, it's like okay, like she knows, she's like so good. She's done this a million times before, and we love it because she knows when to pull out the trucks. Yeah, and I mean it also didn't feel like a departure from the rest to the album either, you know what I mean. It just feels like a high point, like a classic, just natural high point in the album. I love this song. I think I think it's the album's

strongest song. That's one of my favorites. Um this is Me Trying. I really don't have too much to say about this. I think it's pretty simple. I think it's I think it's good. I just don't have too much to say about it after the three songs that came before it, Like you know, I I think it it's a different emotional texture and I like that she's playing a little bit like, um, this is like sprit. But

I think it's a good acting performance. This is like The Archer where it just starts off with like one tone. It's like because on This is Me Trying, it's like and then there's the drums coming and then it starts to embellish, but then like, I think that's how the Archer was. It's just it's like the within the Archer was, and then the other stuff gets gets sort of glombed on, but layered in, layered in. I think this is like very a nice little sort of garnished on the album.

I guess where it's just like, uh yeah, it just builds towards like this, this christiando at the end. One of my favorite songs on the album is Illicit Affairs, because I just I I loved Dashboard Confessional and this to me feels like a song. The bridge is so dashboard, I mean, not everything about it, Like I love that it's just about like you know, and a lot of it almost feels like a short chapter of a book. It's just so well written and it's such a you

can really follow it. And a lot of this album is about being secretive and what goes on behind the scenes that like not everyone knows about, and like little little moments like stolen moments. And I like that she explores this like you know, um, not to repeat the title, but elicit side of herself, like naughty side of herself, like side of herself that's breaking the rules a little bit. I think it's really fun. I love the surprising little

melody choices in the in the um this. You know what I think she does on this album, uh, is she makes these meals out of like small small flings, let's say, where it's like I've and this is this is just me getting personal if it's like I'm all I'm always hung up on the thing of like I haven't had anything longer, I haven't been in a relationship longer than like this much time and this much time.

And I talked to friends and like other friends who kind of have the same experience, and they're like, yeah, but it's like it's like time doesn't lend anything legitimacy, and it's like it's it's it's these like fleeting moments that are so powerful, and I feel like she I think Taylor is like really leading into that sort of overall notion on this album is like these little moments get blown out into these musical sort of pieces that

are so beautiful. And I do love A Listened Affairs for being the second part of this teenage love trilogy that she's she built out. Well, that you have you have Betty, you have the the other Woman and then you have James, I guess who is like um, and then and then you mean by other woman icon Well no, but the the do you think? And Naz is singing list of affairs that's from and that's what I think you heard the rumors from me Naz. Okay, interesting, Well

we'll get to that when we get to Betty. Um, I think that is just like a fun like it's like a fun like person with the gossip. You think it's a fun thing that rhymes, says. I think it's a fun thing that rhymes, it says. It's a fun name that rends it says. And then she's as is just like it's a way for Taylor to put a little color in the album. She wasn't hearing enough color, Jared saying, Okay, so I guess the love triangle is Betty ENAs and James named after Blake Lively. And this

is what jeryld drive. Um, we don't have to get into that. He just gave me a look that was like I'm right, Oh, I'm sure he's right, But I'm also like, okay, that's right. We have to like this couple that got married on a plantation. Hi Jane, Oh, Hijane. I miss her. She's so beautiful, She's a gorgeous woman. She's she's doing wonder I was thinking about Jane today.

I was reading a book that was talking about the Olympic brain, about how like dogs play fetch and play tug of war, not because it doesn't serve any evolutionary purpose, but it's because they want to connect with you know, they're people they like. Well, you know, Jane actually is going through it a little bit right now because she heard her Paul a little bit at daycare and so actually she's going to the vet now and she's going

to get checked out. And Jared's dared thinks it. He can sense in her energy that she's not feeling too good. Has Jared talked to a pet psychic? Has Jared talked to a pet psychic? Yet? He has not spoken to a pet psychic, But I famously want us to speak

to you should speak to on. I was talking with m fight Master the other night and they were telling me about an experience of the pet psychic they had with their cat, Um whose name was originally some crazy name, but the pet psychic was like, oh no, the cat wants to be called Rindy, like you you've been calling the cat Rindy, and the cat likes the name Rindy,

And like it's just these pet psychics. I mean, they they are communing with something big, and I think you should you should have Jared talked to a pet psychic. I mean, we'll we'll be speaking to a pet psychic in the near future. Um, but let's continue with our sort of discussion on this album and talk about Invisible String, a song that everyone loves and I don't get It's a beautiful song. I don't get it. I don't I don't get the not that I don't it sound that

I hate it. It's just that everyone has this reaction to it. And I'm like, what makes this one so much different than everything else. It's just the way the guitar hast plucked. Aaron Dustin I was thinking an interview that, Um, the bridge on the guitar was like there was like a rubber stopper and like kind of like stopped this the strings, the plucks from vibrating, so that it just

sounded so plucky. I just think it's so's She's just it's just such an interestingly produced and instrumental and like arranged song and like you know, this is the thing. And as you've established, Taylor Swift does longing better than anybody. And this is a song. Um I think Pitchworker was writing about this, Like there's there's a quality and a lot of love songs that is like I'm missing someone before you've met them, like Harley Ridge Gubson before you

came into my life. I missed you so bad. There's like there's like there's like this feeling. There's no word for it, but there's this feeling that gets written about kind of universally, and I feel like this is a song that's about that. It's like two people, um who they haven't even mapped, but there are these like invisible hands and forces that like bring them together. And I think she, I think Taylor captures that so perfectly. Yeah, And it's just a beautiful song. It's a beautiful melody.

I'm not even gonna speak about this one because I just I don't really have strong feelings on it either way. I'm just reacting to the fact that everyone seems to love this one is like a standout on the album, and I think it's I don't know, I think it's one of her best songs, the best songs ever. It's just it's so evocative, it's so I can't even get into what did he say it again? I just I just love it. I just think it's so lovely. It's lovely, well moving to one of the songs that I think

is the best one on the whole album. I don't care much for this mad Woman See mad Woman to me is like the girl on reputation has chilled out and like how a glass of wine and like, but it's still just as pissed. Like I think that her perform on this and the lyrics on this are on the album, Like when she says that girl on the in the lawn, do you think that she's smiling or

is she's saying fuck you forever? Like that to me is and the way that she says it is so the way that she when she's delivering the line, my cannons all firing at your yacht, like she sounds furious and like you can hear in her voice she's like shaking with anger, Like this is about I guess Scotporchetta and Scooterbron, and I mean they will be enemies of hers for the rest of her life, and I think that, like it's just so like you took me down, but

you didn't realize that I will never stop fighting for what is mine and what is right, and you will always be the villains in the story. Like you might have won the battle, but the war you will you have lost, and you will always be losing. It's like, truly the song is like I mean, I mean even just talking about like, um, you made her this way, like this is your it didn't have to be this way. And this is my take pretty much on this entire album as compared to Lover, but specifically this song as

compared to The Man. The Man I've always said I don't love like I. I think it's very clever, but it's on the nose. She's it's it's it's too much of him. It's too simple of a thought that she's community. Literally, Selena Gomez could sing that song. I mean, Arianna Granda

could sing that song. Anyone could sing that song, and I'd be like cool, it didn't feel like singularly Taylor Swift like she was sort of like stating sexism instead of exploring sexism and exploring the way that it's like really hurt her and what her feelings are around it, exploring the fact that she's been betrayed by people that

she trusted. This is singularly Taylor her using all of her like which like powers as a songwriter and really specific cyfically illustrating what she's going through instead of you know, if I was a man, things would be easier, like

anyone can say that. Everyone has been saying that for the past twenty five years, and I think, like, unfortunately, it's it's when you, when you stated so plainly again and again, that's when stupid people start stop listening and she sure this and they'll feel it in their bones. People have compared The Man with if I were a boy Beyonce, and it's like that's like a full like rumination reflection on like how different her like experiences her or her the way she would receive things or she

would like what else what she would do differently. This is like the Man is more like my career would be different if I was if I was a man, which like is that which is totally valid, totally, but it felt like her as a part of the pop music industry speaking on the issue and not her as an artist as a human being speaking on it, I like that take on man women a lot, and it's it's a more grounded rage. You're right. I like that she's chilled out. She's had a clout, a couple of

classes of wine. Some years have passed by, but she's still like fucked like fucking piston, right. And this is where I said, like, I think this is the most the best example of how Quarantine has been a very interesting and useful creative time for her. Again, never want to say that Quarantine has been quote unquote good for anyone, but so what I'm saying is, like this, I wonder

if she experimented with psychedelics before she did this. I am willing to bet that she's done psychedelics before this album. I think she's done psychedelics like I think she did it like before Red, honestly, and that would make sense to me. But like the entire imagery of like her being up in the woods, she's making shrooms tea, she's doing the Silo Cybin t Darling hundred per cent. And I was thinking to myself, like she saw the Goop episode, she saw that she did, Yes, she she she literally

watched Goop and was like, I'm doing that. No, just kidding. She's smarter in that I'm And see here's the thing. Taylor watches the Group Show and says, I want to do that. Taylor has been doing it for ten years. Like for me, it's like she's like already been explored her mind. But Taylor, I think, see this is this is the difference. Taylor was singing the Man and I don't want to hear about the Man from Taylor. Taylor

wrote mad Woman and I'm like wrapped. So you're not even so I thought you were like disappointed that Taylor was back, but you're so I'm not disappointed that Taylor is back. I'm saying Taylor and Taylor are two different people. And Taylor is hips hips point, let's go. And Taylor is like, I am, you know, writing my name in a tree, but for real, because I am this girl.

And she's like I'm gonna write poetry and actually not going to class today, or like I'm feeling sick because I'm too emotional, which I love, you know what I mean? Like I love both those girls, but I want them to I want them to both naturally be themselves. You know what I mean, I see because there is like a duality to her. What's her what's her sign? What's her sign? She's a Sagittarius, yes, December, Yeah, the archer, Um, she's a sad I want I want Johnny Nicholas to

get to the bottom of her chart. I want to want miss Johnny Nicholas to really look into what's going on there. You might even say that on this album she had an epiphany. Oh my god, is that? What's next? Yeah? Can you tell that I've been doing puns for the past two weeks. There's a lot of pun humor and hot dog so like um epiphany anyway, stunning, gorgeous, gorgeous score, just score to score, just a beautiful tribute to her grandfather discussing, you know, his experiences in the war and

then relating it to COVID. Relating it to COVID. Absolutely, absolutely, a beautiful song. Beautiful song. I mean, I don't have much to really say about it other than I just appreciate, um gorgeous song about the fragility of life. Yes, um, okay,

what's gonna tell me? We have Betty I she I think she is fully aware of the sort of queer bating discussion that's been around her ever since Lover, and I feel like she absolutely knew what she was going to be doing, that she was going to drive the queers up the fucking wall with like the speculation on this, I love that she's taking cover behind this is from the point of view of James, but it's just I mean, even her singing through um a sort of like transcending

gender in her point of view, is a queer thing, you know, like she's she's doing something queer. Regardless of your take on this, I do not think she wrote this as a queer bating thing. I think she's telling a story, just like she told the story with every track on the Alum could have easily used the third person, easily used the third person and said James at this, jameson Nope, I'm gonna revisit this later. And I don't

think so, honey, because I'm okay, girl it um. But I feel that she is just simply exploring perspective on this song beautifully. I love this song. That's one of my favorites, that's one of my first on the entire album, and I think that it has nothing to do with queerness. And I don't think she sat she sat down and wrote that song and said, and the internet, we'll talk about how it might be clear. Right, that's Taylor. Though Taylor is still Taylor doesn't exist on this album, yes,

but she subconsciously exists. She is very much pulling the strings Taylor, because Taylor. This is just stupid, stupid horror. I want to say that. Aaron Destner also said that she was going for like Bob Dylan, like freewheeling, like early Bob Dylan, free willing Bob Dylan. T is like Harmonica, of course, like the whole bit. It's very much um fucking cape lynchat and I'm not there like doing Bob Dylan. It's like, Okay, this is a woman doing drag as a man, right, but I don't. But but but that's

queer darling, And that's queer even though I don't. Even though it's not like this lesbian anthem, it's still she's it's a queer. It's queer cannon if people needed to be queer, as your friend Jill got to it said, this song is peer cannon. Betty is queer cannon metal. She's wrong, And I would say that to Jill's face as I push her off a bridge. So here's what I feel this is, she's being an artist on this song, not a queer batter on this song. Taylor. Taylor doesn't

queer bait. No, She's she sat on the grass with her bare feet and she wrote this song because she wanted to explore perspective and tell that that tell the trilogy story. It's not queer baiting, and I'm I'm revisiting. I just don't think it is. I don't think there's more to it than she wrote a lovely song, which my only problem with it is it's the same literally same, same exactly core progression of death by that and cuts, which is distracting to me. Literally it's the same, but

it's the same exact question. But it's like how Judas is the same exact core progression is like bad romance. I would point that out as well. Then if that's true, I would point that out as well. I just it is true. There's no need to question it's validity, right, bitch, stupid you are You're just mad that I don't agree with you on that point. But I will say this, while the song is not queer Cannon and I don't think she was baiting with this. I do think Inez is a gay icon. Z is a gay icon. Now

now it's Ryan Reynolds's daughter. Why is their daughter named Inez? I'm not sure. I'm sure. I mean, I'm sure there might be a family name. Um. We we should say that we love Ryan, we love Blake, we love the children. We don't know them. We can't say we love them. We don't know them. Miss Why is I would like to know. Honestly, I don't think so, honey, that Blake Glavely named her daughter Enez. Well, that's not for us to question. It is for us to question. I'm gonna

be upfront. Can I say something. Blake Lively stopped me in the halls of eight h and complimented me one time, so I can't really talk. Oh my god, you're talking cutting it out. We're not. We're not cutting it out, he says. He goes, I have to be honest. Blake Live least tapped me in the studios of SNL and like complimented me on my performance or whatever. So he thinks you have to cut this out. We are not

cutting it out, bitch. You also haven't said anything it's me that's questioning why her kid is named in and I would ask her that question in the studios of eight. Ah, I'm trying to protect my friends Blake and Ryan who got married on a plantation. L O L Hi Jared. We can't, Hi, Jared, we can't use any of this. Um, oh my gosh, I don't. I really don't think Betty is queer baiting guys. Just let me just let me you have you have the you can have it, and

guess what millions agree with you over us. But we have to voice this. I don't even this is actually a rasure. It's not. It's not. It's not because we don't need Taylor Swift to be gay if she's not, and I don't think she is. And I think it's like I I resent the fact that she could. She's like hiding in a client not saying. I'm not saying no matter what, she's gay. I'm saying that she decided to have a queer filter through her songwriting and Betty

and that's absolutely you can absolutely make that argument. Fine, maybe that, but I'm just she's channeling right. But it's also in an album called Folklore, in which she's telling folk tales. I think that it's also just as valid to say it's a story from someone's point of view, because I think she's doing a lot of storytelling on the album. That don't think you don't think there's a place for queer people in modern folk tales? Got it homophobic or no? I'm saying that she can first homophobic

sex worker? Ok, oh my god, let's move on. Piece. I love peace, Love Peace, literally love peace. Thought the album should have been did with this. I agree, but I would say that I think this is a genius marketing tool for her to be like and stay tuned. If you buy my vinyl or my physical CD, you'll get the bonus track of the Lakes, which feels like maybe the real closer. I wish that The Lakes was the closer then, and not Hoax because I don't like

cokes hopefull. It feels tacked on. Well it's I think, um, it's intentionally inconclusive, but she is intentionally inconclusive. I think she's intentionally sort of like it ends on this like unresolved like phrase. Um, oh my god, Doug hot Engineer Dog is saying in the chat, please don't use Bob Dylan misspelled, by the way, do you spell in the same sentence as t Swift, Doug? If you're real, no one asked you. If you're a real Freewheeland, you know,

blonde on blonde bitch like me. I know my Bob Dylan, don't misspell the damn name. And also you wouldn't be You wouldn't be, so you wouldn't be so threatened, Doug, because you know you know who I bet doesn't mind the comparison, Bob Dylan herself. I'm closing this chat now, see you later, see you later. Done. We love Doug so much, don't we. We love done and we appreciate his perspective. And thank you Jam for sending me this pop filter um as a surprise shady gift. I really

actually laughed at that. I had a good laugh at that one. Gonna have to apply the po filter and laugh on that one. Girl. I don't think it's a shady thing. Everyone, No one is, No one is immune. No one is immune to a pop filter. Bitch. Hon, you make peas and ses and tease and you and you, you do the fricative sounds just like all of us.

Excuse me, it's shade when the gift arrives without any notice, because it's like, high bitch, got you this without any heads up, and I'm there to left, assuming that I am popping my peas and teas and seas or whatever. So I'm just saying the shade was in the surprise of the gift. Um peace is gorgeous, Um love peace love. They say loving is public, but I would die free in secret and butturing the lyric. But it's just do you think that William Bowery is Joe? I don't care.

I love. I mean will the William Bowery of at all is very Taylor, let's say extremely Taylor. For her to create a name for someone that, I mean, it's it's obviously Joe, right, William Bowery. Didn't they meet in Bowery? I have no idea. What's what's Bowery in like in the New York area. Oh, and that's why she keeps talking about East Village dive bars. She's always been obsessed with the East Village dive bar of it all in relation to Joe. Yeah, she's been referencing dive bars since reputation.

And You're like, when have you ever been in a dive bar. I think that she spent quite a bit of time there. She probably wasn't that dive bar. One. Let's say she was in like Death and Company one time, and now like it's like she just has imprinted on the idea of dive bars. This is like novel concept. I believe that her team is fearsome and talented enough to have it to execute her participating in a dive

bar culture if she wanted to. I think they could have cleared things out, costumed her, et cetera, that she could go hang out with Joe Awen and dive bars in the East Village. Okay, God, I missed, I miss bars. I'm sorry to be one of those people. I mean me too. I mean it's just for me. It's it's coming in cycles. I'm like, oh no, like I'll be fine until the vaccine. And now I'm just like, oh, I would just want like a martini or like. And the thing is, I'm not talented. I'm making drinks either.

Well that's not true. I'm actually pretty good. You you you make very good drinks. Okay, Peace, I love peace. Hoax. Yeah, we don't have to talk about hoax. But I don't care about it. I do think Hoax is intentionally placed in a way that I don't. I don't give that credit, that same credit to the one being intentionally placed as the opener. Hoax is intentionally placed as a closer, as a way of like leaving it just like open ended

sort of. Though I don't know. I think the book ends of the album are off, but I don't think it matters, because this album is such an achievement. I mean, I think that it's really really incredible to see that she is so willing to explore new areas of herself as a songwriter, because it feels like the same girl, but feels like a more mature version and just like someone that's pushed it even further, who's already been giving

us so much great stuff for a long time. And I think that it kind of makes Lover look even more foolish because one thing I think that um I hope that we have from her going forward is she doesn't need to answer to anyone, and she doesn't need to pretend to be anything. She doesn't need to stomp

around uh in ally clothing. It's great that she wants to be an ally, but she she doesn't have to go necessarily go as far image wise, and I think that she has thought in the past, like it kind of feels like not authentic in a way the last album and like pretending, pretending to be best friends with

like a carry a dab inport. You're like really like she I think, I think, I mean, she would cop to it all being sort of ornamental to the music, I think, And now there's just no there's no ornament to it beyond just like the William Bowery of at all, Like that's the the only tailor elements are the conversation around Betty and then the William Bowery of it all.

I feel like Folklore is like also big up to her for releasing a fucking autumn ask album in the summer and taking us there and and truly taking us into sweater Weather vibe, truly sweater Weather Cardigan asked no rules in terms of tone here, but one thing I love is like this album feels like a whole meal, whereas like Lover feels like you ate a cupcake. You know what I mean. I'm not full cupcakes were good.

I mean, the cupcakes were good. But love, but Folklore is like we we just ate a warm stew red as red as a full meal to me, is a feast ed? Is fucking Thanksgiving dinner? Yes? And what's sushi? Sushi out on the town? You can have a conveyor belt bit And so for me, if I'm ranking the albums, now and reputation is honey, it's a fucking um. Reputation is like, let's let's say, why is this? This one's hard. Reputation is a is a is a glass of ice water and it says, wake up, bitch. And reputation is

a cocktail. It's not a you know what it is. It's a filthy, filthy, dirty martini. Yeah, that's reputation. Okay, So you're gonna rank the albums right now? I feel we can. So my ranking of the albums are I'm a girl because I love Taylor Red, Reputation, folklore mm hmm speaking it's speak now to your list, fearless lover Taylor Swift. Okay, folklore is I'm as much as I love it, I don't know where to place it honestly

in my ring. Well also it's too it's maybe two early friend well know, okay, but all this is mine ready, I'm a Red girl because Red came out. You know you love Red because you and I are the same sort of academic age where it came out the first year out of college, and that it helped me through some ship. You were feeling twenty two. I was feeling twenty two. I don't know about you. Red n folklore reputation speak now lover Taylor Swift? No, no, no, no,

no, no no no no. Where does fearless? Hold On, hold On, hold on Feeless for me is six, which feels shocking. I know it's such a good album. Okay, it's let me just redo that it's Red nine folklore reputation speak now, fearless lover Taylor Swift. But can we say something like, let's give respect to Taylor Taylor this album, this title title of should Taylor slash Taylor? Yes, let's just and let's just give respect because this artist is capable of

folklore and reputation. Chameleon, come on, it's like, you better give it up, you better give it up, you better give it up. Okay. I loved that discussion. Can we quickly um give quick rundowns of we don't have to do track by track, we don't have to do track by track on these, although I feel we, oh, we let's talk a little bit about him and Dixie Chicks now and then give them a little bit more attention

to Chromatica. So I would love to talk about gas Ladder, which for me is like unbelievable start to finish, and I only I only don't love one song on it. And it's not even that I just liked the song out. It's March Marks and it's March March. Yeah. I just think I love that the album is about one thing, and it's what happens the divorce. I love that. I love that it's about that. It's such a good divorce thing. I think it's one of the best divorced albums ever.

And for me, it's like March March felt like hashtag political stance, hashtag liberal girls, hashtag Dixie Chicks, you know, in a way, and we should say they are the chicks, the chicks um and I, which which rocks um. But for me, it's just that one song doesn't fit. It's not even that I don't like those, is that it

doesn't fit. It's literally it's it's it's a literal distillation of the fact that they have been defined by a political stance in in in their career, um, which I think, which I think like them changing their name to the Chicks is awesome, Um because it's it's because because they can do that, because they have sort of earned earned quote unquote the ability to sort of adapt themselves politically to things, because they've been so like whiplashed in to

these different places that they never expected. Yes, Dad, Yes, Dad. I think it's a phenomenal album. It's it's the folklore and I will say Women to Music Part three, wimpy, phenomenal driving albums. You gotta drive as Miss Patty Lapone did. Hi Jane, Hi Jane, She's so beautiful, She's a one, such a wonderful dog. Um. I love for her. I love Jane. Is Jane is having a cameo in the in the song she just licked the mic. She just

licked the mic. Texas man Sleep at Night. Well, I feel like Sleep at Night is the bop of the year for me. I would nominated for a Record of the Year. I think the music video is amazing. UM love that them kind of doing their hoime thing in the music out in the music video. I and We're gonna have Justin Trancer on the show. I can't wait,

miss Jeff and we're very excited for that. And he has not only done this album and done so any amazing, incredible songs and that's gonna be another music episode, so y'all can look forward to that one. And um, this is amazing work. I mean, guess later. That's a great song. When it came out, I was like, cool, Yeah, they're back. I love it this as a part of a whole love it. I mean, sleep at Night, Texas Man, I live for and I love that song, and it's like

it's it's it's it's just I love it. You know, you know the Kelly Colxson song A Whole Lot of Woman. Yeah, this is like an improvement on that idea. I got it. Um or like the song heat by Kelly Clarkson, Yes, I love Yes, You're right, cousins. They feel like in the same musical family. I love Texas Man, love for her for. I think there's some hidden gems on this album that people are not talking about, such as Julianna

calmed Down, Calm Down. Juliana Calm Down is great, but can I be honest, I was mentally preparing myself for like, Okay, this will be like my album for the next three weeks. And then Miss Taylor, Taylor, I should say, came in and just kind of disrupt did my timeline on gas Lighter, So I have to revisit Gaslighter, and I'm the opposite

because Taylor came out. But I'm still listening to Gaslighter sonic companion to what you've been experiencing in the last couple of weeks, which is work, work, work, get up, get up, get up. It's way better. It fits into my life better right now. Um. Like I said, I love fl Flora and it will be there for me

when I need it. Women in Music Part three, and then I just wanted to say one more thing, which is young Man beautiful, beautiful, beautiful album that thinks about the children mm hmmmm, which is a part of that. So this album really explores every aspect of that divorce. Of course, shout out to Tights on My Boat shut Out.

This album is amazing, and we should say Natalie means this is one of the best singers because she is so connected in her vocal cords to her heart and her soul and she feel everything she's thinking and feeling, like almost like on par I know it's a you're like apples and orange comparison, but like I would say, like a Selene, like someone who can just emotionally deliver whatever. Yea whatever is like behind the lyric. Yeah, and if Taylor is a bridge queen Natalie mains as a second

verse monster. Yes, and all the ladies because they co write the songs and again they worked with amazing Marty miss miss Emily. Yes, and they too worked with Jack ganson Off obviously and in addition to Justin and so many other amazing people Gas Lighter, I love I love it, love it, love it, love it now the spiritual successors in a way to the chicks him you you you were kind of late to the party on Women Music Part three? Can I can I out? Can I out

use that? Yeah? I mean I still don't have any vocabulary for it, to be honest with you, I'm just and I want to get I want to give its based on this podcast to be loved so you okay? Well, um, I just love that. Well. Hunter Harris wrote this piece, um this this this mini profile on them, um, just talking about how the process was different and they didn't

frame it around like any one singular sonic quality. And I just think, I just think it like benefits from having all of these m hm, these these these, these these elements in it, and rostam that long leage like just producing a lot of these songs brilliant touch, I mean like him, like he's I think, like it's such a good like guiding hand for a lot of these

kinds of albums. And it's funny. I I am of the belief that the best tracks on the album are the bonus tracks at this are the promotional singles leading up to this. So that's nine minute Hallelujah, Summer Girl, um and I love that. Summer Girl is about um uh Danielle's relationship with Ariel her her her partner. And I don't know, it's just it's just a wonderful album. Another try Gasoline, Um, the Steps, my mom stands don't

want To. I was playing I was playing the album in the car when I was back home with my parents. My mom loves don't want To. So my mom is ahime Girl for her, love that for her. Anyway, it's just a it's just a great it's and it's also such an l a album like they're literally in canters Deli on the cover. Um, and the album starts with attracting called Los Angeles. It's just like a It's a wonderful sort of transportive album that I think is just

a flex on their songwriting songwriting abilities. Um, yeah, I just I just think it's phenomenal. It's great. Now a minute, you cannot deny I love now a minute. I just I I haven't. I just will be honest, like, uh, it's not occupied any of the space of time I've been listening to music because I think I've been listening to Chromatica so much and then guest later and now this it's just I I it's not snuck its way into my musical diet, which is on me, it's on you,

it's on me readers. Didn't do my homework on this one. So far. What I what I feel to be the quintessential Quarantine album is not folklore. Actually, actually I'm gonna say this from Anny. I'm gonna say, let's chat about from anica Ana. This is so much more my thing. Like I just I feel like I when I heard this and we played it through, I was like, yes, we are dancing. We're having fun, We're being stupid. We are on another planet, bitch. There is uh orchestral interludes. Yes,

stand we are like. It's drama like, it is hard sounds. It's the god guy that we knew in love. We're introduced to and then we got to explore on Born this way it's her being um like the stars Born era is over, it's reminding you what she's all about. And to me, this album slaps the whole way through the Only my skip is replay replay I love and I don't even dislike it is. I'm just I don't. I don't even skip it necessarily. It's just like it is a skip for me. But um, you know what

I mean, I guess my skip is. I mean I'm never listening to the damn Interarly, it's not even two in to nine one one. To say what uh sign it from above is ridiculous. Yeah, but how dare you disrespect I'm not even disrespecting. I'm just like, this doesn't this doesn't count. You know, you're absolutely I'm I'm wearing I'm wearing what So it's okay? This this This is an example of Gaga trolling I think music, no big, it's being an alien. They're both being aliens. No, it's

very why did you do that? It's very before I Cry, It's like before I cry. I mean, I think we don't talk about enough. The chorus on before I Cry from a Star was born being because I'm gonna cry. It's ridiculous, so stupid. Love it so funny and she knows how ridiculous it is. And melodramatic. One Thousand Doves, I mean, it's a grower. I love One thousand Doves. Babylon is one of her best closures to Second to

Edge of Glory. I would say this album, starting with CHROMATICA one, we are standing and then it goes into Alice and I'll be very real, and I'm saying this knowing that Justin is coming because he wrote with her. I was like, I don't know about the Alice in Wonderland Imagery because we've s we have we have done this before. But in terms of the house sound and the like, just this sound. I heard it being played outside.

I was walking down the street and someone was blasting it and like I'm like, oh yeah, this is a great it's a great song. It's a great track. I mean, like the fact of the matter is, like I might object to the themes, but because just because I've seen them before, like most notably, like I always think of Gwen Stefani. Um. But that's not to say that you

can't explore this just because it's territory or whatever. But I love the song ultimately, Like I think that again, it's a little weird to me that it's the first track. I kind of think stupid Love should be the first track, but um, but the song itself is great, and you are in another planet when you get there, you know what I mean. Like, I mean, I love that the

production on this album is like a weapon. I think she she is someone who has never fucked up the opener and I including on including Alison even chrammatical one, let's say, because it leads into it, but think about it, like just I Marry the Night, and then Diamond Hearts? Are you love the Diamond Heart? Diamond Heart? And then fucking Like and then Bad Romance obviously like she right, Bad Romans is the opener ound on Fame Monster, I believe.

I mean, I think Applause is likely the last track on Our Pop, right, But that's the first track and it's got some problematic lyrics, but I mean fucking phenomenal song, like like crazy, weird, weird or something. And then on the Fame it's um just dance, So it's like bees like she has never fucked up the first track on any offerent albums. Let's just say that. Let's just also just notice, like see this is when we were talking about folklore. We were like, I love this song. It's

really good. And what's what's chromatica We're like, this is and this is more of the space I like to be in. Not to say that that means one album is better than the other. This is just I prefer to be in the range of five to ten rather than one to five in terms of energy. Usually this is the space I prefer to be in. Like Stupid Love, I think is a fucking smash, like one of them lead singles. Yeah, we've we've talked about this song like I love the video and then rain on Me. I

think it's a fucking iconic moment for culture. It's top moment of culture. It's made the list. Ariana kills it. Yeah, and these remixes that are that have come out. Purple disco phenomenal. You gotta listen to it. Listen to this remix. So we've talked about these two songs that woman I love I'm Afraid Water be Free. I love what you see.

This is the thing I mean, like those little things that I know that we would look at each other and be like be free, free, like stupid things like I just free woman is and everyone I always talked to is like a free woman. And I'm always saying, what, how could you hear I'm afraid water and not be like laughing your ass off and dancing at the same time a free Well may yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm a free woman, like just so so so simple and kind of stupid, but it's it's it's it's gotta okay.

And then having fun tonight, oh so fun. Um cromatic A two one icon iconically, I iconic. What's your favorite one that you've seen smashed up as a meme on Twitter? You know, you want to know something. I was over it pretty quickly, and I just like every single one made me laugh. I guess, I guess, like honestly, and I know this. I know this sounds basic, basic, quote unquote,

but it's like um. The first, like the perfect nexus was the meme and um like statues of colonizer colonizers being torn down, Like it took my breath away, like people taking down a statue of a colonizer and and just being like, oh my god, Like that's fun. It's dramatic, and it's also like I know I'm being like this is like this meets the moment, but like I don't

know that. That's kind of like as soon as I saw that, I was like, great, okay, cool, Like, no need to see like other ones, I'm gonna complete, No, I'm going to be trashed and say my favorite one wash it went over a Lisa A. Rnna being like we're people doing coke in your bathroom? Yeah, and then like Kyle Richards gasping and them all like And then another one was when Lisa Ranna through the glass Like I just love TRAUMATICA two into nine one one anything

Lisa Arena, that's you. Yeah, it's some even it's not even Beverly Hill, it's at least Arena, I mean icon who was celebrated today actually in a Buzzfeld article saying that Lisa Arenna is one of the best Beverly Hills cast members because she acts as a producer while creating content. Yes, she's one of she's one of the best House times. I would say, I think that she is iconic housewife and iconic person. And of course I identify as Lisa Arena.

Of course I love it's like I just I think it's so computer e and like Robot gat guy and I confessed, um plastic doll. We love love it, um soura candy obsessed. Even though, do you think it's too similar to Swish Wish? Oh, I didn't make that connection. I mean I don't think the Swish Wish was also House. I mean they're just they're just inspired, drawing from the same source material in a way, like you know, they're they're both like inspired by that era of like Robin

S like House, and I get a little angry. Yeah, I love the Black Pink Girls, I love I love a K pop crossover Enigma, I love Yeah, I love Enigma replays. Yeah, what do you go? No, just just giving you pure like again, I'm gonna say it like House. It just it sounds like a Robin S song and like she's giving you vocals that are like um oh no um this is why I love Alice. I'm gonna go back to Alice because it sounds like Crystal Waters.

It sounds like um gypsy Woman. It's just like it's just that and like it's it's just the DNA is like throughout the whole album of just like this specific sonic like take um replay we it's a skip. I just I don't love it, you know what I mean? And I love the second half of the album, but I just replayed. I was like the production on the chorus like like not not even like the actual lyrics, but it's like after she's saying the replayer replay and

then there's like the oh, there's that warped vocal. It's great. Yeah, I mean that's good. CREMATICA three from I love Sign from Above. I think it's like the drag moment of the whole thing. And Elton John I saw one sign from Bob is gay baritone as stomping into the club. Oh my god, still got it it still Elton big fag um A thousand doves Listen, I love to make

fun of a thousand. It a thousand enough, Uh, I mean, come on, it's it's one of the only like it's it's one of, not the only, it's one of the most memorable hooks. I think, sure, sure, sure, um, and she's just screaming, I know. It's so it's camp, it's fun, it's it's silly, it's like classic Gaga. And then finally, I mean, this is like black cheese som in fashion, like just like pure pure, like so like like the like heart of queer culture, like it's ballroom. It's like, so,

I don't know, I love it. I love it. I love it so much. Babylon. That's dossip is such a fun like that's gossip. It's so it's such a like a fun turn of phrase to throw in, and like it's just a way to identify the song of media. It's just it's it's really, it's Pefrid Rodgers always does that in the middle of anyone's sentence. Who gossip. It's very funny every time. Time. Future guests, because you all

should be listening to the rear Viewer Review. Yes, a new podcast brought to you by Grinder Lovely Grinder, which I was recently blocked and kicked off from because too many people were reporting my account as cat fishing and I had. Well, it's unfortunately me and I'm unfortunately, you know, shopping for I'm not I'm just window shopping. At this point, I can't even girl, you know who to contact to

get back on Miss Rogers herself. No, I talked to some lovely person named Oliver Um and had to take a photo of me with a piece of paper that said some like that had my email address on it, so you know Oliver has anyway, anyway, I I do. We do support the podcast, which is yes, oh my god, please listen to Miss Monique cart, Miss Chester Lockhart, Miss j Jordan's and Miss Patrick Rogers, and we hope to have several of them on the podcast. Chester Chester is

an icon. They're all icon. They're all Monique obviously an icon. J Jordan, we love Jay Jordan. We've been meaning to have on the podcast for ages. We love them. And we have to have my sister Patrick because it has we have to represent the House. I really want everyone to meet the House once. And I'm warning you guys like I would hear Matt and Patrick before I met Patrick, would here Matt use this term, throw around, this term the like house house, house h A U S And

I'd be like, Okay, what's going on there? And then when you meet, when you see Matt and Patrick together, you go, that's house. That's the very house. There's a house energy. Its house energy, and you know it's really beautiful. And I gotta say I'll save it for the episode when Patrick comes on, but I will preview my sentiment by saying, like, seeing you too, um be together was just like, okay, I can let macco. You know what you are sild that's that's that is not the way

you felt. That is the way I felt tonight, and I felt you just fell. Though I would be taken care of in Los Angeles, you didn't feel letting me go stupid well, I mean, and you will never let me go. Those our companion thoughts and sentiments. You know, I will never let you go. If you let me go, I'll be really upset. I'll be really upset too. Should we move on? And I don't think so, honey, I think so. I think really upset me and Matt just wrapped on hot Dog and he is wearing his gorgeous

robe with his name embroidered on it. I've never gotten to wrap gifts like that, by the way, And slippers that with dogs heads as the slippers. Oh my god, that's so comfy. That is the north That's the biggest slip right seed in my life. Well, you know Jane was fighting with the shoes. Oh Jane thought it was a dog. She thought, So I'm thinking about getting a dog.

Is my announcement. I think you should get a dog. Oh. I think it's pretty much time you have to energy, especially now that we're in the car, and I'm feeling like if I was going to get one, now would be a good time. Although you know, I was talking to Jess about this was the head judge on the show, and I was like, is not a good time to

adopt a dog? And because I was thinking, like, you don't want to adopt a dog and then have the dog think that you being around all the time is normal and not be able to socialize it correctly, because what I would hate to happen is for the dog to be confused when life restarts again and all of a sudden, I don't I don't. I don't want the dog to be anxious or have a complex that I'm

leaving it. So would jest say She said that you can that she agrees with that, but it's it is ultimately a good time because you do need to focus a lot of time in the beginning on training the dog. UM, because I do want to get a young dog. I think I'm obviously going to adopt ar rescue dog, young dog, rescue dog, beautiful, beautiful coat, good performer, good performer, UM, but producer of hopefully out poop in the house and

UM young producer UM and Matt's Baby, Matt's baby. You know, it's it's it's a conversation were having with myself and those around me. But UM, you know, I have a lot of stuff around you. Around you you do you account chair matters. I think it would take very good care of it. Yes, I think I would too. I think I would like one that is an energy match for me. And I did see one on an h A website where and I think it was actually a hint that I should get him because his name was

Richard and I would name him Dicky. Dicky, you you with the dog named Dickie is not even on the nose. It's just like it's just it's perfect. I don't know why. Dicky just seems it's just silly and fun for me to have a dog named Dicky is on the nose. It's because of my huge wiener um anyway, thinking about it, thinking about it. But while I think about it, we should do I don't think so, honey. Okay, this is our one minute segment where we rail on something in

the culture for one minute. As I've said, Matt, you have something you had alluded to something earlier. I do. Okay, so this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so, honey. As time starts now, I don't think so, honey. Y'all needing tailor stuff to be gay and continuing this gay queer narrow please please stop, because if she were queer, I know we would know it because she would have been unable to withhold it in her lyricism. And actually you're saying that tailor shift is queer and like hiding

it from us. You're insulting her. You are insulting and assaulting her honesty in her music. And I would never do that as a tailor fan. You assault her when you do this. And let me just say this, I don't think so, honey, the whole tailor shift in Carli class narrative, because I don't think that she would date someone that was so I'm not even gonna call her anything. I'm just gonna I just don't think she would take

Carli Class. I think that tailor stuff would date someone like I don't know, and not that color Class is an interesting but interesting second. I don't know. I just think that Taylor Swift. To say that she's a lesbian and queer baiting is like an album cycle Ago, catch up. The new thing we're saying about Taylor is that she cooks soups and laying and try psychedelics. If you're gonna assert a narrative about her, it's that she's a drug user.

I don't think so, honey, anything else. And that's one minute, okay, So that's so. If you're gonna assert anything about her, let it be that she's a drug user. That's a rule of culture number seven. If you're gonna us I think. I don't buy the Carly Class narrati. I don't buy it, never did. I don't ship them even I don't even care if they're um but so boring. I think that she is still queering her music, even though she's not herself gay. She is definitely looking like a little Lesbian.

In the Spotify videos that played during the song, she definitely is wearing her hair in a way that I would describe as questioning. I think she is just expanding her parameters of her gender expression, and that's and that's lovely. She's literally expressing her gender differently in Betty, Let's say. Okay, So I think that's different than than than expressing her queerness or queer bathing. I think it's I think it's artistic, and I think that she is being a storytelling in

the purest form. I'm very facetiously being like she's a lesbian. She's a lesbian obviously, non she's not, and you know whatever that that's not for me to label and designate. But I think she is doing a fun queering of her songwriting. We need to have Jill on the show. We need to have Jill on the show, because we're gonna have We're gonna have Jill on Um. I'm just saying that she is like she is like dipping her

toe into like a different gender expression. That's that's that's into it into a like expanded gender expression, that's all, which is great. I just think once it gets caught up in a sensationalist narrative about whether or not she's queer. I I'm not with it. In the year of our Lord one, I don't think this should be as big

of a deal. And I think that she'd be honest about it, because I think she's been honest about so much recently that why would she withhold that from us when she understands the um importance that her words and actions hold. Now you know what I mean. Sure, The way that people like Jill are writing about it on Vulture is in a very facetious Oh my god, No, Jill is not. Jill is being fun about it and being a sleuth about it is a lesbian sleuth. You,

as always are being a sensationalist. And I've been saying this about you for years. You're a sensationalist, and you your aim is to make money. I believe that you are in this industry to make money off of the foibles of others. I think that's why you go to SNL, and that that's why you asked them to be on the show. And I think you asked them to show. You asked SNL if you could be on the show, and they said, because you wanted to go out there

and portray money off the foibles of other people. You wanted to make money off the foibles of other people, and that is how SNL works. That is works. You asked them to be on. Yeah, with an agenda with you have a queer agenda. I have to say something. Boen Yang has a very queer agenda, which is crazy because he's white and straight. And I keep saying this, I don't know what your end game is, but I am it's um, It's just it's all subterfuge. I'm not who I seem. I never mean what I say, and

that's true. Okay, look mirrors down down boots. Okay, let's go. Let's go this. Are you gonna You're gonna leave me in? No? Yes, this is bone Yang. I don't think so, honey. And his one minute starts now, I don't think so, honey. Matt Rodgers not saying a peep about Charlie X. The X is quarantine album. What I'm feeling now it is I think it beats out folklore as like a quarantine work. She wrote, produced, recorded that album in what like four weeks time, and and I think it's one of her

best works. Oh my god, it is so phenomenal. The songwriting is so experimental. And she, she is, She is the one to watch. She is the future of pop. She is like expanding the parameters. I'll say that, I'll use that phrase again. And you have been silent on her? Have you seen her life? I have seen her live. Actually I don't think I have, but I keep going, keep going, stop it, don't I don't think so, honey, Oh let me, let me, let me do a two parter.

I don't think so many people who think that seeing an artist live grants that any sort of legitimacy and their standing, when obviously some of us are casual listeners and go see them even don't give a ship about when their quarantine album drops. I'm gonna give you some more a masterpiece. So I've seen, I have, I I stand plenty of artists, so I've never seen live, and I've seen plenty of artists live who I don't care for at all. And that's one minute. What do let

me tell you something right now. I actually haven't heard the new Charlie ex and why not because I was depressed at the time, and so I are all of us. Everyone does depression differently stupid and you should know that, and you should know that. You should know it, and I will listen to it because I love Charlie. And what's ther whole thing about seeing her life? Because I have seen her life. I've actually paid the dollars to support the girl. And so you did you pay the dollars?

Or did someone or someone like, hey, man, I have an extra ticket to Charlie. How foolish a question to ask on this? I think that's dad, That's actually what happened. What happened was it was actually bought for me, but I then mode the person who bought it. Okay, why you didn't actually, like, like go about the task of buying a ticket to see her show? Literally, I did spend here's how, here's how. No, No, because I didn't.

You didn't go after the tickets dropped and was like, I I was told there be a concert of Charlie xc X. What does that mean? Would you like to go? If that's not true? I've actually so thank you for reminding me. No, thank you for reminding me that I've seen her twice because I saw her and go westfest. We want to go see Troy performance festivals don't know it did because she was one of the top three

reasons I went. I went for Troy, Kim and Charlie and also shut up so and I want to go see Charlie on her own tour, which Jared said, would you like to go? I said absolutely yes, and I then want him for the tickets, so yes, I did pay. Now, why haven't I listened to the new album because it wasn't released in like a major way. I didn't know about it, and at the time I was feeling depressed. And I feel that I will be given the space now to go listen to it and not deal with

any grief from you. Miss Oh my god, you are tuning out like such huge cultures on the internet who like we're eating with abated breath for this album to drop. You have no idea to stand. Um, I the scale of that, and I am part of it. I just haven't listened to that one album. Sometimes you know how I am, You know who I am, You know I know how you are. I tell you this thing is really cool, you should check it out, and you say maybe,

and you never know. It's not that, It's just that whenever I have a new album coming out, and I feel like I need time, Like, for example, why haven't you talked about DUA because that was like four or five months ago. No, you still haven't said anything. I have publicly talked about do on my own platforms. You have on your own platforms, Yes, on my own platforms. We are too independent people with our own independence in spheres of influence. I'm not hearing enough DOA. I'm not.

I'm not hearing enough. I'm not. This is the thing is that Ellen Pump didn't even really say it in that way that we you have like revisionist. Let her say, I'm not She'm not seeing enough color. This is the way she said it, and I'm not seeing enough color. But we have like twitters and we made it into I'm not seeing in this color, which I which I wish is how she said it, which I wish is how she said it. The jury is out on how she said it. No one can ever know, and we

can never know. You have about quickly talk about this being a music episode the smash Holiday by Little Mix. I mean, you all out there, readers, it's actually really important that you don't sleep on Little Mix. You don't sleep on Little Mix and can I give a shout out to ho Why is you here? By Flow Millie the twenty year old nineteen year old at the time of recording vonder Kind. There are some There's a track called Pussycat Doll Matt you have to listen to it.

Oh my god, you're gonna let it. She's like giving you full on. I think an amazing mixtape anyway, Yes, yes, another song that I still gets lost in the conversation is reacted by the Pussycat Dolls who are And I feel like that's a fucking track and a half and Patrol is serving on it and the video is you can't believe how they look. I haven't seen the video. I will check. Oh my god, Bowen it is a vagina to the sky. It's crazy so um that and also, oh,

oh my god, there's one more. There's one more that I don't want to miss. Fuck fuck uh, there's a lot of good stuff. Oh, Chloe and Halle we gotta level. Yeah, they're slaying, and you know what we're getting very soon? Black is King. Black is King. This Friday even we're talking about an album of the year that could be entirely women and we love that chromatica folklore probably the

front runner. No, but let me watch they'll give it to chain smokers who are canceled now by the way after their certainly will not give it to chain smokers now I'm kidding. Um, and any other little culture that you want to touch on, know, I mean, I was excited that this is gonna be music focused when I think, I mean music is kind of the the thing that I think we're all sort of enjoying collectively on the

same level. Uh we in the Royal we let's give it up to Will Ferrell, our daddy, for charting charting with the song who'sa Vic from Eurovision the film something that was successful ye on Netflix. We Love We Love you Will Ferrell. Check them out if you haven't already. Um. Yeah, that's that's that's the culture I want to talk about. Well, we love this episode of music and um, you know, I thank you. I think you're going on a musical journey.

I see where you are on the East Coast. It's sort of getting a little darker, a little bit dark darker, a little bit darker, and here you know, it's merely five. I I hope you are enjoying your time of rest. You've you've, you've, You've been through a lot of uh strain and work, and I'm so excited to see this project. I look for it. I think it's gonna be great. I can wait and you can be looking for that one.

And to quote say Winfield from the Real House Eves of Atlanta More September, more, September more, September more, Summer more September, Joggers Joggers more September. I watched there was a thread on Twitter which was um the best like single Real Houses of Atlanta lines and who don't check is never never ever gonna be lost? I love um Kenya going It's time to die, It's time to die. Also the iconic is the iconic needed close your legs to marry trash bag? Who said that? Who said that?

Who said that? Also who said that? I mean iconic, iconic, all iconic. And also them explaining to Porsche that the underground railroad was not a real railroad. When we let's shout out miss Derek. But we're gonna talk about Grace in a couple episodes or maybe the next episode. But m let's shout out Derek Barry for wearing a shirt in the finale that said nobody died, nobody was killed. No one was killed, nobody was killed. I mean, maybe she's an iconic We love Derek and I guess yeah.

On the next episode, which you'll have to tune in to wind out what it is, we will UM. I feel like that's alluding to the fact that it's going to be one of the queens. It's not gonna be one of the queens. However, we are having one of the queens on, one of the iconic queens, one of the winners of drag Race is going to be on. UM won't spoil it, but they're coming and we're so excited, and uh, we'll talk more about drag Race in the next episode and probably the one after. UM, so lots

of talk about that. And in the meantime, we're celebrating shak whole and also giving big ups to Juju b and Mr christ as well. They were amazing. That was great and they were there, incredible queens. But yeah, you know, she deserved that one all the way. And as we always do, will close out with the song I can see do you know the words? In time? And you never mind He's twisted it Oh, it's such a beautiful son.

It's really good. Hey, if you have an stream folklore by Taylor Swift, we get a cut of the stream dollars. Just kidding, we don't, I wish we did. And also just an announcement, I'm not releasing a folklore album, so don't stop asking it for it. I was released, I released the Love. Can't make fun of folklore. It's not there's no hook for the next one, for the next

album in like three years. I almost did one that was like no one knows this, but she actually did a folklore she was She started recording this folklore in in May, but she also recorded an entire album in February. In March and April when Quarantine first started. Here is that album. I almost did that. That's really good, and it was just going to be well, I don't know, maybe I'll still do it. You should still do it. And then now that you've said that, the fans will,

the readers will score. So okay, now for real, let's close out with this song. Okay, um, he said it's good. Drave at us wait, wait for hell hell, Now this is getting good. Listen to the rest of that. You listen to night to maybe nine might for the track is wow is Jeeves