"Taylor ALISON Swift" (w/ Matt & Bowen)

had a personally rough week yourself. I'm talking to the readers, the katies, the publicists by however you identify out there. However you identify out there, weeks like these where we can all have fun talking about art. Shall we say? Is that rest assle? Oh my god? Do you your word could have shoulda freaka? What is a song and a half? Not to jump ahead, but I feel like, spiritually are this generation of Taylor this is are all too well period. Wow, it's getting disrespected by being on

bonus tracks. But also if that doesn't matter, well, let's we can talk about this later. But but the three Am songs have a specific intention in DNA behind them and we'll talk about that later. Anyway, lots of great reasons. Um, my nephew's briss was on Thursday. How was the brist? Everything go? Well? Okay, can I tell you? Mr Aaron Weiss is his name? Champ screamed. I was expecting something like this during during, but it was actually this is this,

this was this was what this boy did. Yeah, let's see. If I had to imagine my penis getting clipped, I think it would just sort of feel like this, No, are you kidding me? Your your foreskin getting circumcised. I think if you get it into adulthood, like it's apparently like you're knocked out and you're on your damn back for like a week. Yeah, forget it. This kid was just on tailan all for the next day and that was that, even the next day, the next twelve hours. Anyway,

it's a beautiful, beautiful thing. Um, welcome to the world, Aaron, Mr WAMR. He's he's so sweet. He broke his collarbone on the way out. What I know, because he's a big boy. I think that that happens. I think that happens. No, and he's he's doing great. And um, the family is very happy. Anyway. Christmas Thursday, I wrapped on Nora from Queen's. I brought a whole damn. I say about how much I loved that, and um, it's been a good week.

And then and then Midnights and then when and you also saw Tar And you've had a reaction to Tar that I couldn't have even dreamed about. I knew you would enjoy it, but you're you're saying big things. I think this is one of my favorite movies of all time, period period. And he said the same thing. I've now seen it again. I've seen it twice. I am about to see it again with Josh and Aaron because we went out to the club. We went to six six, which is a monthly hyper pop party in Brooklyn by

the amazing DJ the Limit doesn't exist. Yes, it's such a fun party. And every song that came on me, Aaron and Josh were going, this was what Lydia wanted, This what Lydia want. The Grammy for that and but then, but our theory now is that Lydia's egot wins are all for acting. Yeah, well that makes sense because she certainly was doing a convincing portrayal someone who was safe to be around. Oh my god, I'm so happy you liked it so much. I loved it. For for more

on Tar. For Matt Rodgers and Guy Brandham's thoughts on Tar, please listen to the last week's episode. They said everything that that need be said. I loved the movie. I'm so happy that you didn't. I also don't want to take anything away from you. So at any point during the discourse today, you feel like you absolutely have to get out your terrific million dollar pun right there responses to the film, You just stop everything and say, wait,

hold on this scene and you can go off. Okay, thank you so much, But look, how did you experience the album? And let's just be real. Let's just be very real. It makes it's time to be real and a by him for sure, deleting um. But did you know because I was with people on Thursday night at Halloween Horror Knight's, and of course the album was out. We were all like, oh my god, we're so so excited.

And so then I was with some people that were like, there's rumors of a sister album, and I was like, you're you've got to be fucking kidding me, and they were like, yes, Midnight's East Coast Midnight is getting an album. West Coast Midnight is people. That That's what was. That's what the rumor was, the heavy rumor on the streets of Halloween horror Knights, which were as spooky and OOKI

as ever. By the way, and the Weekend has a hunted house, and I was literally screaming running from the Weekend from Able from Abel himself, so thinking in my head while I'm running away from Able an amazed theme to him and his music. I was like, is there about to be a three Am drop? And then lo and behold at midnight there was the Midnight's three Am version, and I was like, oh my god, the seven new songs because of course she had to stop at thirteen

for the regular album. We all know, America, that's the girl, and then these seven songs. When I tell you I went home that night. For me, two out of my three favorite songs are in the three Am section. Let's we could talk about this, but let's just say the fact that you heard this at Universal Studios. Let's just established here now. If you want your swifty news first, the place to be is city Walk what you mad? City Walk is the source for swifty news. Well, city

Walk is the center of Hollywood. It's actually why city Walk was nominated one of the best um neighborhoods in L A in the last school ESA's Culture Awards. And actually I believe, I believe it did not win. Oh no, CityWalk, CityWalk did win. City Walk did win Best Neighborhood in Los Angeles. That makes a lot of sense because it

really is. It's where the interesting artists are, I would say, and the people who are really plugged in with their ear to the ground of the entertainment industry are at city Walk, absolutely, and at really renowned restaurants of great esteem and repute. What was it. They're having dinner at Bubba Gump, They're getting a post dinner drink at Margarita Ville. These are where the movers and shakers go. They picking up a little they're picking up a fortune cookie at

Panda Express. They really are, they really are. And so like, yes, I'm there, I'm hearing it. And then the three a M version rolls around and wow, And to find that that also had a concept which you alluded to earlier. Would you do you want to get into that, okay. So I would say thirteen tracks on the Coreman Night's album are very sonically and thematically tight. It's contemplative, it's quiet, it's subdued, and I would say the three AM tracks are at the witching hour of three am, where your

mind truly goes to some wild places. That is the more emotionally um on wheel dy time of the night, and you really your your mind goes to the extremes. Midnight is actually a pretty chill time of day. That's the thing too. It's like you know, when you're a baby and they tell you, oh, it's exciting to stay up till midnight on New Year's you sort of get this thing in your head that the most thrilling moment as your cognition is forming, you think it's a feat

to stay up till midnight. But then you get to be an older person and you find out that midnight is not so late. So the things you're thinking about about at midnight you can find in these first thirteen tracks. Definitely contemplative. Definitely it's me by myself sort of thinking to myself. But three Am, I mean, these are the the issues that arise and cause a restless mind. The three AM is where you go. I think there's been a glitch. Three AM is basically when you go. Did

you see the photos? No? I didn't. But thanks though. First of all, like you're so right about the chaotic nature of the three AM tracks because that first verse of Paris, I am obsess bone. I've never heard something to Taylor in my life. By the way, we should just say a lot of people have been asking is this a Taylor album or a Taylor album. I have an opinion on this, and I want to know if

you share it. This is a Taylor album, But this album is Taylor having taken a breath, And this is this is Taylor having said, you know what, I'm certainly Taylor, I'm certainly on my ship, but I'm taking a breath so I can collect my thoughts. This is Taylor with sound mind. This is Taylor saying, let me use my talent, my gifts for a contemplative end. This is Taylor energy with Taylor lyrics. Truly brov Tay Laura again. But I just want to leave that in the folklore Everymore era

because this is something different. This is this is a culmination. I agree, I think I'm just gonna come out with it right away. Okay, I don't think this is Taylor. I don't think this is Taylor. I think this is something entirely new. And it just came to me. You know, I proposed to you a new sort of binary breaking persona. And I'm actually not going to present that here tonight, at this time. Okay, what I am going to present

is Allison. Oh. This album is the first Allison album. Oh, this is this album is Alley with one L with one L. My god, and and and I not not a y and I this is a I. Um, I'm sitting in this. First of all, let me tell you something bouting. It's you, Hi. You are not the problem. It's not it's not with this, with this assessment, you have really killed a girl. I never stare directly at the sun only in the movie. Wait, so let's go track by track and I can't do hold on, well,

can I can I actually explain? Okay, let me just quickly before we do track by track, let me just quickly explain, Ali, I got my notes out, Allison. Yeah, go ahead. Tell us the readers, which, by the way, oh my god, dear reader, keep on yet there's a lot of less culch in this out on this album, and we'll get into it. The Taylor Swift theory, the unifying theory of Taylor Swift is this is someone who is constantly making the self. She's constantly figuring out the identity.

This is the difference between Taylor Swift and let's say, Beyonce. Beyonce is thinking about her legacy in terms of a community and in terms of the greater sort of experience of her music, which is that we all love and are obsessed with a Beyonce drop, right, and we can all sort of get behind a Beyonce album when it

comes out. And her music is about a collectivism. It's about like my community, let me give the spotlight away from me and put it on a big frieda on the house of aubionce on like I'm just and this is just renaissance. Okay, Yeah, that's just gonna say this. This This feels like a renaissance like assessment. Yes, yes, with Taylor, it is about an individualism. And I don't even mean this in a pejorative way, but Taylor Swift's music is all is usually only about one person, and usually at

the time it's about her. Yeah, this is really interesting because actually I was walking to get coffee earlier and I was thinking that in the same regard, it's really interesting to see her lyrics start to turn inward as opposed to outwards. So the younger Taylor was always like the problem is with other people, like the issue my issues are with other people. I've been wronged, I want

something I can't have. It was very much connecting with her audience in the regard of like we are externalizing.

And then in the last few albums, and I think it's been really interesting to see her sort of bring this like Taylor performance energy, this like fresh, poppy, fun performance energy, and this vibe to what is now I think the first time that we're seeing her in a consistent block of like the last three albums turn inward, you know what I mean, and she like, for example, with Anti Hero that to me is self consciousness anxiety, like anthem this is and honestly it's Taylor being aware

of Taylor and being like, sometimes I'm so humiliated by myself and you know what I mean, Like if someone at her stature, that's like pretty bold and for us to ill understand and get on a certain level that this is a pop song that we all can enjoy,

but it's very much about the individual. I don't think we've seen that since like thank You next where we're like, this is this artist's song and probably no one else can ever do it in a way that's going to hit on this scale that means such a specific thing for a specific person, and that is a feat one

thousand percent. I've said this before. I'm like, oh, my thing with Taylor's music is that like you can't really throw it on at the club right like and so it's not so it is like because it's this confessional song singer songwriter tradition. But the thing Okay, so I listened to Into It by Sam Sanders. We love Sam. He did in an episode about Taylor Swift. He had

on and powers from NPR. An amazing music writer and she has all these wonderful insights and her idea of like the unifying theory of Taylor Swift is that it's someone who kind of like a Bob Dylan was able to marry singer songwriter, confessional person with um writing about a persona and kind of even more so than Bob Dylan, like is writing about the way she is perceived in a way that not that many people have really done

in like modern recorded music. And so Auntie here is a perfect thing where it's Taylor Swift writing about Taylor Swift, which we can't really even blank Space, which is like her other self aware Bob is like pure Taylor, pure because there there is one intent behind it, and it's to tenttalize totally. And so with Midnights you kind of realize as a listener that her whole career has been like the painter painting a self portrait. It's it's van Gogh.

It's like every now and then she'll paint a starry night, you know, a still life, a vase or something, but like the most impactful work, and and not in like a vain reason, not her vain sort of motivation. Is her painting herself at different stages in her life. And then you go, wow, this is really interesting and then it gets everyone talking. And so the reason why, like I do think that the online discourse is a little divided. People are like, it's not her best album. I don't

understand it. I think it's because it is again the individualist thing where it's like this is about me, and so that's harder for people to get behind because no one else's Taylor Swift exactly. And I also think lyrically it's dense and in this type of music that can sometimes be a little bit hard to find lyrically, Like

I feel like it took me. I loved it instantly, but it took me about two or three listens on each song to really figure out what everything was about, because there's there's both a lot going on and also it is weirdly minimalist too. But what I loved is like, and what I've always noted about her is she is so good. It at just very simply getting an emotion across, like I always walking all the way back to you belong with me. You're on the phone with your girlfriend.

She's upset, she's going off about something that you said because she doesn't get your humor like I do. Like this is what every girl thinks about. The guy that doesn't look at her is wow, like there there and it's specifically like lashing into she doesn't get your humor like I do, you immediately know you are that girl, You are her, like we're experiencing it and to see her sort of get more intelligent with the way that she wields words and uses and just like becomes more

emotionally intelligent. Over time, she has maintained that talent, but now it is her lyrics are this lyrically is her her best album and literally like there's something in every single song where I have to be like, what did she just say? Like ultimately an anti hero like, um, I'll stare directly at the sun but never in the mirror like that is really you know, And what's going to be a Billboard number one hot one hit like that is some ship m hmm, totally, it's all truism.

Mariah carry is clapping, you're so verbos queens recognized verboas queens. Literally, Maria is gonna write Taylor a letter about this one. For sure, She's gonna say, hey girl, I just want to say what you did there? I know, I know that the tourist was out period, and definitely it's time for it's time for the track by, It's time for the track by track and um, so we hit play And first of all, can I just say something because a lot of people are going to be like rolling

their eyes. I know a lot of the Sorry but fags that listen to this are gonna be rolling our eyes because we didn't mention Carly Rae. Let me say two things I went to. I went to the Carly Ray concert at the Greek the other night. She was so much fun. She puts on an incredible show, hits so great live. She looked stunning. Her backup dancers looked like Heather Gay and Whitney Rose from the real house of Salt Lake City. It was so shocking. But her also,

her set was amazing. The moon was talking to us katam in life so headman life, and she knew what she was doing because she stopped one song in the middle and said, wait, wait, I want to take you into my fantasy. And I was like, this nymph is going off like it was giving tinker Bell vibes and Julia Roberts could never wow. Her album is fab but I'm sorry, my my all, my time and energy was taken up by this one thing. I did give car carle right a couple of spins. You have, but you

got everyone's everything. Go listen. Shooting Star bends as an excellent album. My favorite is the first track, Surrender My Heart surrender my heart. That's what I want from Carly, right, you know what I mean, like just really solid song. I mean, I like that she's trying to do something a little bit like a beach house. I'm always like, I don't I can't really currently connect with this, but

I like that she's taking a rest. Beach house is really giving Cobra starship to me, it's giving good girls go in Maliboon, probably gonna hood you. I mean, that's a great hook. That's a good hook. Listen to Betty who big. Really, God, we're so spoiled right now, We're so we're really up to the neck in pop girly time. God. And then the other day in the car, I just like was I was like, you know what, we're putting on renaissance from my ride to therapy and back, and

that one's always going to be right there too. This has been a year, a wonderful year, forget about it. You know where I'm going on Wednesday? I'm going to see the Moona concert. And if you're going to be there tonight, I guess so, So tonight I will be at the Moona Concert getting my life. Um, alright, so are we going from traqua. Let's go from track one and we're doing all twenty period period. Okay, track one, Lavender Hayes this to me when this started. When when

I heard me I'm Midnight, I was excited. I was like, I'm sorry, but confirmed this is a Taylor album. The way that she introduced herself, I was just I was already smiling big and then you knew that that was just gonna be giving us vibes. Her vocalizations, her random vocalizations are popping on this album. Okay, speak on this. I'm just saying, oh nothing, which I also love, and that's getting a race. Like I'm just saying like things that she found vocally here, like non lyrically. I just

think they're up there with her best. Yeah, okay, I trust this. Okay. My. The thing that I always think about when I listened to this is the j sweet who wonderful writer, producer, has done a lot of stuff with Drake did heat it to on Renaissance, and I saw when they dropped the credits like days before the release, I was like, this is going to be interesting because I thought maybe it was gonna be a Drake collab.

I thought maybe I was gonna be a surprise Drake clab because there was a bunch of rumors that there was a Taylor Drake collab which didn't happen, but also who maybe it existed, we haven't heard it yet. Sure sure this one. I didn't really know what to make of it. On first listen, it was like interest, like

she she's kind of um. The track ones are always always interesting with her, interesting with her And I don't mean that in a in a bad way either, I mean like it's a it's a very deliberate thing every single time. Yeah, Like to me, the one on Folklore is a choice for the first yeah, you know, and this was giving me the one like I'm doing good, I'm on, I'm on some new ship like that to me was giving like it was the same vibe as

I've been under scrutiny. Yeah, yeah, beautifully. Yeah Yeah. I was like, Okay, so we're talking about the things that she's going through publicly. Here we go, and I was like, this is Taylor, And I thought, oh, I hope this isn't too indulgent in this regard. But but then it was really just again she brought it back to the safety that she feels in this new feeling in the

new relationship. The Lavender Hayes, which I don't know if you saw her interview about this, but she was watching mad Men and someone mentioned being in the Lavender Hays which is feelings of new love. That's sort of like hazy feeling of new love, that nice comfort in a

new um emotion that's positive. And I love that she used this because the really the whole album to me is like starting end ending book ending as a love letter to Joe Um and so in that way, like by the time I got to the end, I was like, Lavendar Hayes is gonna hit really hard on second listen totally. I think it's a sensitive song for Glor's for sure. I think glors are incredibly betrayed because they see the word lavender, they go, she's gonna come out, She's gonna

come out. And now she doubled down on the head row life. She's simply not queer. That's what she was saying with Lavender Hayes. And that's okay, swift ease, it's okay to be straight. It's actually real culture number forty nine swift sweets okay to be pretty straight. I've been saying that for months now. I'm gonna start saying it today and then every day going forward for the rest

of my life. Hey, everyone, readers, if you go up to a straight person today, I just put your hand on the shoulder and just say it's okay to be straight. It's okay, and you can tell if they're straight. Let me go because the outfits are terrible. Oh my god, I dragged. Well, it's interesting that you say meet me at midnight. You understood that it was Taylor immediately. This is this is the period that I meant to put on the end of my thought earlier, which is Ali Allison.

This is Taylor singing about Taylor and vice versa, and therefore it is the middle ground. It is collapsing the binary into the middle name, which is Allison. Yeah, are you ready to say that Miss big girl who we meet in the anti Hero video is big Al. That's big Al. You gave her the name Tad for me for me, it's all caps like the wind. Hey, I don't think the girl is Ali. Ali is Ali is the person with the Zippo lighter. Damn. Ali is like

I'm peering into the plasma. I'm peering into this really, because if you can't touch fire right, it's absolutely can't get burnt, getned lyric from like Red Yeah, that's definitely Red era, but it's like that's Ali. Ali is someone who is like, I Am everything everywhere, all at once. Shout out to MICHELLEO and the Daniels. Let's just make sure that we constantly keep their name in the conversation. One directed episodes or one episode of North Queens. Let's

bring it back to that. Thank you. Let's move on, speaking of excellence, Maroon Baby, the way we moved from Lavender this, Can I say when an album gives colors, I can really see that and I can really you're not color blind anymore? No, this album actually cured my color blindness. And can I say maroon is actually a tough color for me because everyone, I'm sorry, I mean the raised, It's just I never know if what I'm

seeing is actually maroon. In fact, last night I really wanted to wear a Maroon shirt because I knew I was going to be around some Swifties at the party I was at, and I really have a hard time with that color. I often think maroon is. I think brown is sometimes brown, purple, red. It's a really tough color for me. But when I heard this song, I opened my eyes for really, I think the first time, and some roon and bowen. I went out yesterday and

I bought a Maroon shirt. Congratulations, thank you, sitting that that is so powerful to me, that my friend who has been afflicted with color blindness, this whole life goes. I bought a Maroon shirt. Yeah, one of the vaguest colors there is. And now my color blindness is just a memory, Wick Wick, the memory. M that's a real fucking legacy to leave. Can you get out of here? No? No, no,

not absolutely not to talk about Maroon. I mean, my thing with Maroon is it's just like it's giving me, Lord, it's giving me pure heroine earra Lord, which is really my favorite Lord, to be honest with you, when I first experienced her, like no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no, non me, she's digging in. I'm just like everything about this song is just rich, just like the color sonically, this matches what's happening lyrically in a very full, complete

way to me, the definition of a vibe. Okay, And when you said you texted me this is if Dress exploded into a regular album, And honestly, Dress, to me is a highlight of one of my favorite Taylor albums reputation or should I say Taylor and to watch Dress explode, to watch that Seed become this garden, as you said on Instagram story, like a fucking poet. You said that, Taylor, I really, really really I heard you say that, and I was like, God, damn it, what a time to

be alive. I love this vibe. Maroon is in my top five. It is of all Taylor, of oh No, of this album. I'm not ready. I can't like. But you're saying Dress. I know for a fact that Dress is one of your favorites. It is in the whole of and if Maroon is sort of like this sort of evolved or maybe Atter really the sibling of Dress, I feel like it really has a shot at landing it. It does because Dress is definitely in my top twenty

of all time. I'll say that it's definitely in my top twenty, like it makes it makes the greatest hits, non single version like deluxe album for me, like on Taylor's if I had to compile everything, I think it says it clearly is important, like in terms of her discography, because it is. It is really like a basis for what happened with this album. I love Maroon, I love that you love Maroon. I love Maroon, and I this might segue perfectly into the next track. The album made

sense for me once you got to Anti Hero. Anti Hero made Lavender Hays in Maroon work for me. Does that make sense? I'm I love that we can disagree in this way. Maroon was is the bridge or is the ramp up to I think the thesis of the album, which is Anti Hero. But I'm happy Anti Hero comes in the three spot, you know what I mean. I feel like it would have been tough to open up with Anti Hero because it's just so it's just such a moment, like, okay, so get this, let's just play

baseball for a second. In a in a lineup, you don't put your strongest girl first. You put the girl who's gonna get you on base first, who can steal some bases and make sure that we get her home. Miss number three, three and four are really your power hitters. Okay, So for Anti Hero to come out doing what it

does in the three spot, that's giving baseball down. It's giving most Valuable Player vibes, it's giving the Silver Slugger, It's giving Don't worry, girls, we're scoring runs on tonight because I'm up at bat because Anti Hero and Snow on the Beach are three and four and they're gonna knock it out of the park. Anti Hero is her best lyrics maybe ever. I simply, like I said before, self Consciousness anxiety album, and it's such a specific thank God, Like I mean, just like this is one that I

cannot stop listening to and to see the video. I texted you. I was like, she is now. I mean, now we're actually visualizing Taylor and Taylor and I love it. I mean, just like the analysis here of self. I have to take my hat off. Your hat is on. You don't have to take still on. But my hair is a mess right now. But you don't want to see it. That's okay, don't worry. I love you at any hair. That's a real fucking legacy to leave. It's

a real fucking legacy. Now, God, she was able to capture this, which is very I'm gonna say, Kate Bush like that is like such a I'm never gonna say, like I want guard, but it's very like like like it's just very like something she really went for, something she hasn't done before. I think the Anti Hero is kind of a standout, and like her whole discography because it just yeah, it's expansive and tight at the same time.

And also for nothing, yes, and also to to endeavor to write a song that's going to do all of the work it's doing, it better be good, you know

what I mean? Like, and also like I just I don't know, I'm just obsessed, especially nowadays that a song this good is a Billboard Hot one hit if we're to look at the cannon of songs in the past couple of years, just because of the way music pops off with charts wise, like lately, you don't always get, like, you know, actual important music being number one because it's like I don't know the TikTok of it all, etcetera.

But this just like feels I feel grateful for it. Well, I think Taylor is also she's not writing for TikTok, but she knows that it's this force in music now, and she goes and she understands that she enjoys being on it. Obviously, and she's who knows what her f y p is, but she's she understands how things get surfaced, and she understands what makes certain songs take off on it. So I have a suspicion that she goes, what is a lyric that lends itself to like a TikTok thing,

it's me High, I'm the problem. It's me, And then like people feeling exactly, you know immediately that that would I was like, okay, well that's going to be in a few hours, that's going to be the only thing you see on TikTok on The problem is Me on Holy found Dead on Holy was the only song on TikTok that and the Beyonce challenge that's fit and like now it's like you put on TikTok, it's only it's

me High, I'm the problem. It's me. I was gonna compared to it like bad Habit by Steve Lacy, which again like number one great song, but it's like a perfect like way for anyone to be like, what's my bad habit this? And let me let me put that truck on it for Auntie here, it's like, what's my problematic thing about myself that I'm gonna like display and go to the world and it's cute, it's innocent where you can get dark with it. You can like you

can kind of go any direction. And I don't know, I feel like Taylor She's never gonna like sacrifice herself to a social media platform in that way, Like she will always be about the songwriting, like the story will always do the work in her music. But like I think she knows how to like dial it up just enough for her to be like this is gonna fucking explode.

I mean it also happens like again and again and again on the album where it just feels like and that's kind of always been She's always had these like little turns of phrase and like funny, little weird specific things she said that would pop off. But like you know, you can literally see in your mind's eye, how many girls are gonna do Lally. I've been dressing for revenge and look like a fucking stunning home, you know what I mean, Like I just my hats are off, like

honestly anti hero. I also love the video and I love when she sat on the roof with herself that was giving me fly Ryland vibes um lost coaches all over this album. Say that. And I said to you, I was like, I think you need to text her girl and say that. We saw Taylor and Taylor in the video. We saw it, and we know that she's aware of the binary. Now, so is this a is this a lost Culch album? She did not text me back? You texted her? I texted her. I did, and I

think maybe she she's busy. It's busy. She's busy. She's gonna get back. She's gonna get back. But um, I said, I'm just gonna say, I'm choosing to believe that Burbig says Tay Taylor Taylor in the video. And also, Matt and I have decided that Giant You is named Tay. And I don't know if she'll see it, but she's gonna see it. Honestly. She know she's getting so many texts. You know that. Wow. Can you imagine what Taylor swift phone is like when she when maybe she puts it away.

I don't think so. I don't think so. Can I tell you she's looking at her phone and that's okay, and she and she should She's worked hard. Now let's move on on the beach. On the beach, Girl Girl, this one. First of all, weird but fucking beautiful. My girl's cursing on this album. Let's talk about the curse thing. We hear fucking with a hard c K, you know what I mean, like really digging into my favorite way I hear people say the word fuck, like fucking beautiful.

You really like gave you that U c K energy As much as being made about the history of the cursing, and I will say and admit that it has always kind of thrown me off, just for a micro second until maybe Midnight's where I'm like, she's she's got it. It is not getting in the way of my listening experience because even on the one I'm like, oh, I'm on some new ship, like okay, let me just get back, let me just get back into this. But I'm teetering just a little on the balance beam. And now I go,

good for her. Yeah, now we say, thirty two year old woman who I believe curses, but I feel like I'm with you. But every step of the way, by the way, I guess what you're saying, it's like when you're it's been her, it's been part of her journey. Yeah. Literally, it's gonna be like when Ellie says to you one day, yeah, I'm dating this guy. You're gonna be like, you don't say that. And it's not fair for us to like

think of Taylor Swift that way, honey, we don't. We should never gate keep Taylor from of all things language. Are you fucking crazy? Who do we think we are? She literally on a meta level, she says the word slur on this album. When she said later on in the album, you were doing lines, I was like, tell her, where is the pre name? What you were doing lines? Maybe I'll say this for my don't think so, honey. But everybody on Twitter, especially gay Twitter, saying that she's

she did poppers in the studio. I'm like, no, how brand new is that thought? Way to go? Everybody, Well, I go, it's not a poppers album. No, I will say it is a funk album though it to me, it's a funk album. It's a fun album. It's not it's not poppers at the club. Let's say no, And like everyone's going this is kind of meane this is poppers. I'm like, can we just leave the only drug that's

referenced is cocaine. Maybe she's doing lines of K. I don't know, but like it's a lot of K. It's a lot of K. And the nasal spray is now what's in fashion. Actually, I recently encountered the nasal spray and I do think it's a game change. It's it's efficient, it's very efficient. Yeah, I'm sure she'd be proud of us for using snow on the beach to transition into this nose drug land. But what do you make what do you make it? The Lawna the Lawna feature, because

it is. I loved it. To me, The Lawna feature was giving atmosphere in the same way that like the Dicky checks were we're giving it on soon, you'll get better, you know what I mean, Like and Maaron Morris giving it on you all over me. You know, it's like so good. But everyone's like she funked over Launa. No, no, no. I feel like Laana probably was even preferring to be

an ambient force on the track. It's also like, can you be fucked over when you're on a track that's now going to be number four on the Hot one just from being on there? You went and hung out in the studio with Taylor Swift. You gave ambiance and energy and atmosphere because she was inspired by what you do. Taylor Swift said that she believes Lana del Rey is one of the greatest artists of our time. This came from the horse's mouth, and that she was so honest

to be able to work with her on this. Like obviously Taylor has been inspired by Laana vibes, like let's let's be real, Like I mean, Lana's huge, Lord is huge. Like there's other like little references here and there like that have been there since the beginning of her career, but like they're big influences in terms of her move towards the type of music. So I thought it was actually fucking kind of rad that Lana was on this track because it says, it says to people that are

like ash, she's just making a lot of music. It's like, no, Mama, I have actually mother Teresa's blessing. She's here on the track. She's giving atmosphere, So shut up. I think this sort of is the full circle and too wild. It's dreams like you wrote a lot of song and for I guess years now people are like, she's writing too much lunch,

She's just kind of cribbing Laana. But now it's like no, no, no, I get like people ripping the feeling that there's a lot of reference in the Let's get out of this how I I understand why people feel that, But then like the rest of the song and the energy of the song is so Taylor Swift like that, And then I'm like, I don't that was not fair. I think for people to be like that, but I disagree to that bridge. I'm sorry. I'm thinking about all the streams

were getting. The streams is my number one of all time. It's it still stands but um but but yeah, so on the Beach, I just love the way that the chorus ends like snow on the beach, Like I just love that, like like weird. It's like very weird and downward. It's like very sultry. It's it's very evocative like and yeah, I mean the weird but fucking beautiful again, Like I can't wait to see the girls tick top that one.

I might do. Yeah, why not, let's move on. You're on your own, kid, This one's getting lost in It's a gem because you know why. I think people are feeling confused because they're like, this is not a track five. And at first I agree very much. I was like, this, this doesn't sound like a track five. It's not like it's not her spilling her guts in that way that we're accustomed to at this point in her albums. But I think it's a track five with distance. I think

it's her. It's very much like um the Lucky One of Red. It's like her sort of from a different point of view, singing about someone who is going through a very transformative time in their life. For me, this was very specifically about her. Oh absolutely, it is about her, But I think it's her like looking back on herself. I think maybe it's like national era, like which you just moved there, or just like definitely a time in her career in life when she was like succumbing to

whatever pressure she felt from the industry. Yeah, to me, this is about that thing of you felt it was gonna be one thing and now it's another. And also wherever you go, there you are, you know what I mean? Like that those are the vibes for me. Lyrically with this, I mean scanning the room of better bodies just to find out that my dream wasn't rare like whatever. That that that I mean, that to me is just like that's that's that's for real, because honest, she's this is

her honesty's own song, very much so. And I also think it's a perfect track five for midnights because it's I'm up thinking about this. The whole thing is like basically one long track five already, and so why not like give it a little accent in that spot where you go, this is something a little bit different than what you're used to. That's my theory. Yeah, I would agree, And I think it's just watching this one get lost

in the conversation. I think it's because any track five is going to have a high bar or people are gonna feel like they want to be wowed by it by the time it's over. And I think because it's it's been preceded by these these tracks like an anti hero like feels like on another album, maybe that's the track five, but then we have this one. And I just also musically, I really really like it. It's just it's getting lost, and I think it's going to be

a grower for people. And I think by the time she plays this in the Midnight Stadium tour, We're gonna

we're all gonna be singing every word, you know. I don't think if this means anything, but I feel like I was sort of taken by the fact that there's not much guitar, almost no guitar on the thirteen tracks on the Core Midnight's Interesting album, except for I Think You're on Your Own Kid, where it's like like it's but it's just like not that many chords, Like the progression is just like one note for the most part, and as in like it's one like it's just her yes,

one note, um, And so I think that's just it's a really I think she knows to like switch it up at this point in her career for album ten. It's like, let me actually do something else. I like, I love it so much, no notes coming from me on Your On your Own Kid. I just think we need to, you know, have some respect for it. I really do. Now let's get to this is a really important one. This is I love Midnight Rain. I love Midnight Rain. Mm hmm. First listen, I was like, this

is this is a huge one for me. I love the in the like octave jump like man the same. I just I love that ship. The choice to modulate it down for the first two times you hear that chorus God first of all to me say, imagen is all over this album. M that's that's also a huge influence. Clearly, clearly, And did you readers, did Matt Rodder's not call it

when he said I'm expecting death cab postal service. I don't know what to say esthetic you are a seer, you are I don't want to vision I literally this is chaos magic because I didn't. I didn't even like, honestly, it hasn't even been top of mind because I'm not thinking about like me being right this ship. I'm just enjoying it. But I was right, and it literally gave the vibes that I said I was going to give.

And I was texting with friends about it and they were like, they screenshot at early texts, being like, how did you know when when you said the death cab thing, Like, how did you know? I was like, bitch, bitch, I feel I'm Taylor. I really do. I sometimes like I

feel I'm Taylor. I feel that way too about you fucking love this song and I literally like it's it's just like you think, like in the in this middle section of the album, like all right, now, are these the ones that are signed up sort of hanging out here because they're the ones that like ostensibly like maybe we're not loving as much like this it never drops for me, like Midnight Rain and then into Question. I

FU love Question. I think, thank God for this conversation because I'm realizing the more we talk about it, the more I love it. Because I will say, even after day one, I was like, I don't know where to place this album in the in the great ranking. Yeah, um wow. But Midnight right into Question, which is like where you turn the damn vinyl around on side B, A great little schism, a great break in the progression of this album and the story it's trying to tell.

It's not even it's telling the story I think as an album, but I think it's also just like vignettes. It's like in a similar way to folklore and everymore, like it's just little stories and thematically linked by this thing. But it's I think it's a stronger theme than those you know what's funny too, Like so when when I

first heard this album was being announced. I had heard this weird random rumor that what was supposed to happen this year was that the rerelease was supposed to happen this year, and then I think she ran into some maybe legal stuff or like something happened with it where she pivoted, and then it was gonna be the whatever

album it was. And then when I heard it was Midnights and it was a concept album or was presented as a concept album, I almost thought to myself, is this going to be songs from the entire span of her career that she's going to repurpose and like make into like, you know, feel new. I thought maybe it was it a concept album that way, like and that

she was literally reaching back throughout her life. But like lo and behold, like I'm so happy that and she has said it herself, she has debunked the rumor like this is all new work. She has said that. But like that I think I'm really happy about because she has the like peace of mind and also ability to look back on the things that she's gone through and like also assessed where she was so that it doesn't feel like necessarily you know, so it doesn't feel super

super Taylor in the lyrics. It feels Taylor in the lyrics with Taylor energy because she's had the time in the space. But still the things that she's singing about you can tell still real, still probably keep her up. I mean, you know, like by the by the time we get to what it could have shout, I'll have

more to say about this. But like, there are certain things that you don't ever really come to terms with, And it feels like there are certain things in her life that like pop up and she drops things like you know, her age when she is talking about a certain thing or you know, easter eggs for Tailor fans, that like only we would know that we know exactly where to place this in terms of her emotional and public life, so that we can sort of have a

better glimpse in. But I'm really happy that she wrote new work about things that she's gone through in her life and not like reached back and like it didn't feel vaulty, you know what I mean. I get what you're saying. Totally, no shade to the Vault tracks ever, never ever, but they're Vault tracks. But they're Vault tracks. They were not the front facing works that like she like initially released and so like that's its own little narrative. Anyway,

night Rain. I mean, I really don't know what to say other than I love it perfect, I mean question perfect. That's just fun. And also the thing about being kissed in a crowded room with all your friends, I was like, you better go off tailor and explain a situation that you and very few people. Now have you ever been in a crowded room and someone kisses you and everyone's making funny without a clap fifteen seconds later? They're relatable, Queen.

I can't tell you're saying that is relatable, but okay, for me, the only way I related to this, and I'm going to get a little honest zone is like it's like I get I get a little embarrassed anytime I'm like making out with someone's club and then you're you're you went with your friends and they're all going, oh my god, who is going with? I know? And sometimes they even see you do it and they yell out,

someone's not discerning, who has done that? You did that to me on New Year's Eve, bitch, when New Years in Mexico City, I made out with that guy and you said someone's not discerning. I didn't say that. I could I make that up. I'm so sorry. That's so awful, and I'm so sorry, but Bohen, I'm really not that discerning. I thought it was funny, and I also thought I brought it up to you. I have such amnesia about this ship. That is so mean. I'm a mean, I'm

a bit you were being a fun bitch. And also in the grand scheme, it didn't really matter, but I did remember it, and I did think to myself, like, could I could make an issue of this, But I'm an issue. Okay, you call no, no, no, that's not what I meant. I just meant because I'm certainly not discerning. You all know this to be true, and and you have been see. That is the difference between you and I is anytime I am with someone that who does

not meet your standard, tell me. You tell me in a very clear, thoughtful way, and I might do it in a way to you that is just vitriol Taylor, and I'm more Taylor in that regard. I'm sorry. You don't have to apologize to me, ever, I thought ultimately, I okay, well anyway, but okay, so so so then the thing that I guess we don't relate to is the fifteen seconds later they're all clapping to like what

what happened in those fifteen seconds? I wonder? I think probably that you know, it's that moment of like you kissed someone at a party or whatever, and then like they go away, and then you turn to your friends and they're like what, and then you go, girl, I don't know, And in that fifteen seconds, everyone's like, oh my god, isn't life funny? And then everyone's clapping like this, We're all clapping for the situation and the way we'll look back on it later and then all can take

place in fifteen seconds. A beautiful time capsule, a beautiful period. Shall we talk about vigilante ship? Yes? And I am still on a journey with this one. I like that she kind of has like a Billie Eilish song, like an FKA Twigs early FKA Twigs type song. I feel like this is peaked Taylor in the album period. Yeah. To me, this is this is like a reputation track. This to me is like more blatantly I can see on another album for me, if if there was a one that I was on the longest journey with it

was this one. But then there is some ship here that I really really really like. I mean, I like like the fucking line about the doing lines like it's essentially like she will never take her photoph scooter bronze neck, and also and why should she know she she shouldn't.

And also it sort of connects later to Karma Tube, which because because you can tell Scooter is one of those things she will never fully let go love it, and she probably will make music about this forever no matter where she stands on or how she views it. It feels like we're always going to get content about this because it was a betrayal on a scale that needed to be and in a weird way, like she made it public explicitly in a way that that truly

really bothered her. And then to hear her, you know, talk about his white collar crimes because he really is like a flop. Yeah, I I respect it so much from her, because this is someone who values work and her art so much that if you come after that, she will kill you. Cad I drawn so sharp to could kill him. Man, I'm gonna bring in Mandy Moore into this conversation because she gives a line reading in Tangled that I think is so impactful and I don't

know why I'm thinking about this. I need to hear it. It's at the very end when Mother Gothel played by the incredible Dona Murphy, it's actually about to kill Eugene. She's about to kill Zachary Levi's character, and then Rapunzel is begging Mother Gothel to not kill him, and then she goes, but if you kill him, then I will never stop trying to run away from you. Wow. And I'm like, Dad, oh my god, I have do you really well? Mandy's vocal performance and that was absolutely stunning, stunning,

Oh my god, can we talk everything? Finally feeling that's when my voice is so. I've been partying a lot, so I'm not going to be singing, certainly not belting out tunes from Tangled the Heart amount can ever sing Sondheim found Dad. But Mandy with that line reminds me of m Taylor with Scooter. It's like she will never stop coming for this man. Now her foot is on

his neck forever. We respect the jewels. I love the jeweled to me, like the first time I listened to it, I was like, Bejeweled really stands out fun, really fun. It's I think it's like the closest thing to like club bangery that we have on the album. Right, Is that fair to say? Yeah, I would throw this one back to almost It's very like, you know, you know what, I'm having fun tonight? Is this the one where she's looking by the way I'm going out tonight? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

I love it. I love it perfect She's throwing this one over her shoulder. I love it. I love it. Oh my god, we may have to move faster because then we're we're doing doing it, really digging into labyrinth. It's giving vibes, it's giving a it's giving taking a breath, it's giving that point in the album where we're just like, okay, now, let's it's a cool down, you know what I mean, let's stretch before we kind of do the home stretch. I really really really like, oh oh none in yeah,

m hmmm, Yeah, it's really good. There's just there's a lot you know what this gives treacherous in a way. I was just gonna say, wow, the way my sister understands, it's so like you self surrender, You surrender to the

thing that you're already going through. And yeah, I'm obsessed with that as a concept when Taylor writes about it, well, because that emotion is so core and Taylor this thing of like being at the precipice of a big emotional decision and deciding to take the leap, that is so her and so like, it's nice to have a spiritual big sister to Treacherous now in this way, because you know, in all of these ways we've heard Taylor update herself

and like call back to herself. But also it's sort of that same idea of wherever you go, there you are like, she's still that same girl, but now we get to hear her express that in such an interesting way from Treacherous to Labyrinth. I mean, there's a dissertation there. I wonder if they're teaching it in that Taylor Swift songwriting college course that exists. Can we just do one day in that class where we get to lead. I would like to go. I would like to go in,

and honestly, I want to do two days. I want to go one day where we go sit in on a class, and then the second day where we lecture. Well, no, I want to do lecture one day, and then I want to literally t a god, what do you call it's the class after the lecture? What a coloquium recitation? I want to do the lecture, and then I want to do the recitation where it's smaller groups and you and I, you and I split the class in two and we each lead a smaller recitation where we all

like discuss, like just like a little discussion. I'm sad that we're split up. I I think we what what do you mean? I don't want to. I don't want you to be over there teaching with them and me over there teaching with them. You're gonna have the funner group. I don't think. So. You're the more everyone I wish I were. Do you know they won't say that, Yes, they will. Yeah, I think I don't think you understand

that you are. You are the shining Star. Karma is the next song on the album, And don't you feel that people are gravitating towards this one? Like it feels like the energy is with Karma. Do you understand the backstory behind this? No? So there is a theory that October Taylor Swift six was gonna be um an album called Karma. Correct, Oh yes, yes, I did hear about this, Yes, And it got tossed because her public image was in danger because because of the whole like you know, Kim tape.

So then they had to scrap most of it, and I'm sure some of the songs kind of got sprinkled throughout lover and reputation, maybe even folklore and evermore, but doubtful. But Karma was supposed to be the sixth album and then yeah, and then they had to like sort of push the calendar like because it was just every two years in October that was the release window. And in some way, releasing this album in October two is like her like getting back to that timeline, the original timeline

and October two, Taylor Swift twelve thousand days old. What do you think she knows that? Do you think that's intentional? I don't know, but it is intentional that it's also

Kim's birthday. There's a lot of closed loops here, Okay, I love it, And with Karma, I feel like it is closing the loop on that in a way where it is oh God, a song that was meant to be on that album, I think because I feel like Karma is a little bit of a departure because like Karmen is my boyfriends, my boyfriend, Like, here's the god I love it, doesn't it feel kind of like it kind of stands out a little bit, and even sticking out a little bit, you want to know what it's more, um,

because we've also we we've heard her talk about this a little bit in the album already, and and vibe wise, it is a little bit more. It is a little bit more fun and like more intentionally like you know, like I feel like I'm like, you know, skipping down the road when I but just this idea like I love what I Love is like the lyric rub against the type of song it is because it is like a fun pop song that's probably the most straight up

pop song on the album. I would say maybe until we until later when we get to my truly my favorite song, which we haven't yet spoken about. But um, I feel like to end this song with the idea of Karma's a relaxing thought like that she's really letting us into the darkness there because she's like, you know what, actually,

maybe this doesn't make me a good person. And you can judge me if you want, but it actually makes me feel good to know that Karma will get these people, Like, no, these people are not going to get away with this ship, you know what I mean. And here we are sitting here this week and Kanye is there's there's no coming back. It's I mean, he's he's completely done, and it is it's now crossed over whatever line you were waiting at

to cross, it's crossed. Like not to even give him any more space on this, but like I'm sure everyone knows, like what he's been saying, the fucking anti Semitics should he's been saying, he's a complete maniac and a monster and if he needs help, he needs to go get it outside of the public guy, because unfortunately people are still fucking listening and it's sick and he's bad for the world and Karma got him. Period. The closed loop here, I think is really apparent. Yeah again, I'll say, just

on a lot of levels. And there is some chatter about how like why is she still singing about her grudges? And I think it's just like part of it. I think you have to embrace that as part of her like musical motif. There's something about her that's a little vindictive. And I also think that she she would not hesitate to say that. I mean, she's admitting to it here, like she says, Karma's are relaxing thought. I am relaxed. I am at ease thinking of you, someone who's hurt

me being in pain. You know what I mean? That is, that is vindictive anthem, and that is something that non a yone would admit to, you know what I mean, And especially like in this fun, little cute song sonically, you know what I mean, It's just it's almost really interesting that that thought, which is really deep dark thought, comes in this like song. She's like Scoo's in her head voice. You know what I mean. I just love it. I know, I know it's way more interesting than you think. Okay, um,

next song, Sweet Nothing, I'm obsessed. It's the closest aesthetic match to like the promo materials of this album leading up to seventies folcusing a songwriter Judy Still, you know, Carol King, like Lauren Eiro, that kind of thing. It's so sweet. It's just it's beautiful, and I mean Mr William Bowery appears on this one. Yes, yes, And if that's him playing the piano, you better go off that that he's electric keyboard you very yeah, um oh the

electric keyboard. Yes, whatever, that's what I meant. Whatever, Yeah, you know, totally totally. I wasn't correcting. Um, it was no, no, no, sweet nothing. And then this is just can't fire give. It's giving, it's giving. We're writing this song and we're having fun and we had a great time writing it, and it's sweet and it's just like a nice, little, sweet little offering. I just love it. I'm I love sweet nothing. It's a it's very um New Year's Day

without like the circumstance around it. You know, it's just like it's just like a mundane beauty. It's not like it's not it's not even like the morning after a party. It's just this is our everyday life. And I also love that it's so clearly like a collaboration between them that then leads into Mastermind, which is about like the

totality of the courtship. Yeah, what a great closure the way that it goes into Mastermind, just like and also how plainly it ends like it just like and now your mind, Like I just I think, Yeah, it's that thing of like when you see someone or you feel like that pulled towards someone, and like you know, she's saying like yeah, I say, I'm calculated, but guess what, Like it actually got me quite the prize at the end of the day. Someone I've been with for like

six years out at this point. And like the fact that she she sounds relaxed on this track, you know what I mean, Like it's like the track drives, but she sounds like vocally she sounds very happy and relaxed. And I also want to compliment her vocals on on on this album, she's really really really lived in And I was talking to someone, my friend Darren, who said

he was he was missing some big vocal moments. But for me, it's like the intention here, like especially like um at the end of Anti Hero when she lets it get really like ugly sounding, And I mean that, and I mean that in like a in a complimentary way, but like to me, there's so many colors to her voice in this album, just as a lyricist and as a vocalist, I think this is a peak. I think she understands that her vocal singularity is that it's sharp.

She's a sharp voice as in not like it cuts through, like not the accidentals it cuts through. And she doesn't need to belt in order to make the impact. You know, she doesn't need to do like the big vocal turns in order to like get you to pay attention. You're paying attention because she is like making a choice that doesn't really go big on the sort of melody necessarily

even though she is this like incredible songwriter. I was gonna say with like elaborate, it's like, um, she goes like she's singing in the head boys, and then oh, I felt like she she knows what she's yeah, like leveraging in each thing. She's very accurate and resonant and evocative in that way like she she and I think that probably also does come with her being the songwriter, is like she knows exactly where her voice is going to fit into the structure of what she's doing to

make people feel a certain way. And also she she knows where to place things totally, even calling back to Anti Hera with the tell Us all this time, like just like the atmosphere that that gives that in the place in her voice that she uses she's really good at creating atmosphere with her voice. That's what the whole

album is. That is a compliment I would give this entire album is that it feels like, you know, there is actually a real range there because it's almost like two or three different people, you know what I mean, Like when she's down here, it feels like one thing, and then that it feels like another person, like and it's almost just like oftentimes in the same song, and especially in Anti Hero as well, you hear these different people saying these different things. It's like, that's what makes

it interesting. Yeah, while we're talking about this, and as we're ending the thirteen tracks, there's a lot being made about how people can't tell the songs apart from each other, how they all sort of blend together, and I feel like that is also intentional. That is also like she's creating like the closest thing to ambient music that she's done folklon never more. I feel like maybe, but I think those are supposed to be differentiated projects and each

song has its own sound. With men Nights, I feel like she is going after something a patchwork of different midnights in her life, as we know, and how there should be some sonic threat kind of ties them all together,

you know. Yeah, I mean I think that's a very easy thing to say about something that has a high expectator, you know what I mean when when you turn something on initially and you're like, oh, these sound the same, or like this is this is more vibe, which I think a lot of people were sort of saying, and it was. I mean, of course it is a viby album, but I I hear a little bit of like an insult in that. To be honest with you, I can't

explain why. Um almost like she caved into doing what all the girls are doing, which is like vibe music, which if you really listen to this, like yeah, maybe she is, maybe it's a viby album, but there's like tons of peaks and valleys here. It's not you know

that sameness is not is not negative against that. But my thing is like when you were listening to something like right away and it's that event diese type album and you need a pull, I just feel like that's a very easy things and like we're not giving this enough space because it's of the biggest album of the year obviously, Like whenever she releases an album it is or it's up there at least in the top three of this year, and I feel like, you know, it's

just that's a little knee jerk for me, that that comment, And I hope we've matured as like listeners in the streaming era. I was telling all of us, like everybody, um, because I think like we all sort of understood like with the other biggest album of the year, Renaissance, it's like this is this is dense, this is amazing. Let's like really sink our teeth into us. Yea. I was kind of soothed by the fact that there people were not like jumping to a conclusion with Renaissance necessarily like

it was obviously well. I did hear that a lot, though I did hear a lot of people being like I wish I felt like, you know, the song's um jumped out in different ways, like it wasn't just a piece of collective work, which I actually think it's actually strong in both regards, like you can turn that on at the club and let it play and have a great fucking night, but also like there and those skips,

but also those songs are all extremely cherry pick. Yeah, you're each chair the ones that you want in the mood, which is happening now you see people starting to like, now that renaissance has been out for it's like people are you know, there's there are tracks that people like, like it's people are saying that less now that they've had time to marinate, and and so I would say,

let's afford Taylor the same thing. I just think maybe that is like the shift in the listening habit for everybody and at least our generation where it's like, this is gonna be the thing with all big albums going forward. Is that like we're gonna have the poll first and then it's gonna be a grower or it's not, and then that's it's, it's whatever, it's it's sort of part of it. Let's do the three M. So three AM rolls around Eastern Standard time. Where you did you say

for it? I woke up the next day to your Instagram story of a song called Paris and I go this and I immediately immediately listened to Paris um saw Dear Reader and my blood went cold. He has a track. I was like, what, And again, we're not saying that, like we wouldn't dare say that it's not it's not a reference to us, but wow, what a thing to wake up too for me, that's all. What a gift

for the readers and all of us like that. There's a song called Dear Reader on an album that very much explores the dichotomy of Taylor and Taylor literally is all over this culture, is all over this album. She's coming on. Taylor's coming on. She wants to do the pod. Taylor, please come on the pod. We will give you the best interview. Zane Low will fucking shake in his boots after he listens to this interview that you, me and Matt will have. I mean, this is an open invitation

for Taylor Swift to get on the podcast Last Cultures. Let' just say two accepted two awards at the Lost Culturesta's Culture Awards. Did not have to send in videos. Thank you so much for doing that, Taylor Swift. We will never thank you enough. That's a real fucking legacy to leave. That's a real fucking legacy. Anyway, Um, okay, the Great

War enter Mr Desner, Enter, Mr Desner. I love. I was a little bummed at first when I was like, there's no Destner on this album Great War Lovely sort of because he is on this track right, he's the most three. What I mean to say is like if we thought we were getting one of him. I remember I was with Jared and he opened his phone and immediately to the song credits and he we saw Aaron Desner and we were like yes, we were like, okay, So she was just holding this back a little bit.

But we are still collaborating with our new pal. Yes, yes, um, great War, wonderful, Um. A lot of historical allegory here. We love it. She likes her history. She's a history buff. Yeah, she'll be telling you, oh my, what a mother whistle um and dynasty like she she knows to like intentionally dip her toe into like quote unquote for lack of a better word, Americana, a p U S history, a p U S history. You know, she got a five. I would imagine um bigger than the whole sky. This

is a sweet, little, sad little song. And I people are sort of speculating that it may be about a miscarriage, that it may be about some sort of loss of some kind, not necessarily her own. But of course we see lately Taylor has been exploring the concept and really it's been for longer than people think or say, but definitely more vividly lately of writing from the perspective of others. Um and I think this possibly could be that. But

what a lovely song. I mean, it really is just so sweet, Sam Sanders and Powers we're talking about something else on this episode of Into It where Sam quotes Taylor and Mrs Americana and is like, Taylor says this amazing thing or she like references this this, this, this thing and about fame, which is that like you are frozen as a woman, especially you're you're frozen at the age that you were famous, that you become famous in right, And And Sam is like, is that why like people

still sort of like talk about Taylor and think about Taylor as this teenage girl. Is this why people are having trouble moved like growing up with her or think or like understanding her to be a woman, you know, like a like an adult person. Um And then and Powers goes, I think it's because she has not had a child. The childless woman in America or in the

world is something that is uncomfortable for people. They don't know what to make of a woman who does not have a child, and so therefore she's even more locked into teenage self hood to other people, like the persona is sort of like snagged in that for better or worse. And I don't know, this might be a little more bit to tie into BIGG than the whole guy if it is about in miscarriage, even if it's not her own. But like I think she understands how that feeds into

the meaning of her now. I think that's really interesting. Yeah, I mean tossing all the way back to Rohnan like she's she's a great actress in her music. I mean, like she really she really is. And this to me like it might be a spiritual sister to that. I mean in that it does feel like it's about something heavy and specific and that that that's like something like on the other side of the fence that you know

not to ask about. But the song is evocative and I think could match up with anything, you know what I mean. Like when I first listened to it, I was like, this is about a loss of a relationship, and then I feel like, no, I think it's it might even be like Ray Shocky and like, you know, this could be whatever. Obviously it might be something to her, but I wonder if she'll ever comments on what this

is about. I would like to hear it. Yeah, but if she wants to keep it private then and the fact that it's at three, I am track, you know, like, where is this existing in the file cabinets of her mind? Totally okay, talk about Paris because I need to maybe get on board with Paris because it's it's the one that I glossed over. I don't know why you're kidding me.

First of all, I want to tell everyone I'm now on TikTok and I was eventually able to figure out my TikTok so but when I did alive last week where I couldn't figure out how to make my TikTok videos public, which is very Matt Rogers, very calling back to when I thought my computer didn't make PDFs because you had because I thought I had a porn virus

that made my computer unable to make PDFs. And I was sort of experiencing that narrative the other day when I couldn't get my tiktoks to go public, and I was frustrated because I thought I was actually kind of slaying. So the more I'm on TikTok, the more I sort of realized, like, oh, this might not be good for me, because I think it's eventually going to reveal who I am, which is sort of like a basic little boy who loves Taylor Swift. So I hear the song Paris, I

absolutely lose my fucking mind. I couldn't believe the rhyme scheme of Paris and somewhere else. I loved that. Like some people are taking issue with that, I think those people should go to jail. I am so obsessed with this song that I got on my TikTok and Bowen, I did a humorless basic ass TikTok to Paris like I was a gen z Ere. The comments are so funny. The comments are like millennial jumped out, like okay, the

millennial Taylor. One person comments on my thing, I need to see less white t fags on my on my on my timeline, and I literally I almost respired. I agree because I was so sick watching this TikTok that I created. But the earnestness I felt it was because of what this song did to me. I unapologetically keep that TikTok up and also my transitions are fucking good, so get get into it. This song has taken me like out of who I am and brought me somewhere else.

The first verse it's so chaotic to me in the best way and just the the way that it's so verbose, and then the chorus just drops you on the song like we're in Paris, like unless you sit and like be in that new atmosphere. I'm like, come on, this is a evocative pop song. This is what I love.

This is an emotional, evocative pop song. It is kind of giving me Carly Ray in a in a way, in a way like it's given me light, romantic, fun, effervescent I would I would say, is the word, um, I just I absolutely love it to me, like, this is the song I keep listening to for me, It's it's the super base of the album. It is that bonus track that pops it is it is that that girl on the back half that was revealed later that we will remember this one and what a could have shot,

which we'll get to. But you gotta get on board with Paris Bone because it's also an opportunity for us to be really stupid singing it. I was gonna say, before you you even said that part, before you invited me in, I was like, I'm sold. You've never assused. You said super base of the album, I said it, and that was the beginning of our friend Chap And when have you ever led me wrong? I love this song. I am obsessed and I don't want this song to get lost because again, like I don't think it is.

And I've been posting this song a lot and people are being like, my favorite, yes, and we need this song, And I was like, what puts this? I guess the three I AM distinction, like whatever this was for her that made it a three AM song. But I was like, this because it's big, because it's big grand, and I feel like there was too big for the first thirteen. I was gonna say, like there was a choice to kind of subdue the core album, which I respect. Yeah, I got that. I got that, and I respect that.

This is this is sweeping, This is like whoa this is you know what, it's giving state of grace. It's like expansive in the way that it is, like it's up, it's down, it's out. It's like you saying that it takes you there. We were in Paris and you're there. I believe that I see it. This is it's very like New Romantics, which by the way, came on the other day. I said, God damn, this is a good song, a song and a half. She's a great actress in that song. She's a great actress in that like it's

it's poker. He can't see it in my face, but I'm about to play my ace, like, whoa, what did you do there? Why did you do that to me? And that's what I love about Paris, Like Paris this first verse, yeah, your ex friends sister. I just love it. And the outfits were terrible. I loved it. I was like, first of all, it's giving sondheime in that the notes are the emotion. Everybody laughed. It had to be sad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it had to be sad. And I'm saying, Paris revolution,

friend revolution, That's how I feel about Paris. Wow, it is actually you know, it is giving son died. I said it, and I'll still say it. It is very like it's not the same song obviously, but yeah, like on their own behalf, it's very a lane stretch. It's very okay, high in fidelity, love love love this one. Destner is back and also just again, like it's it's weird, like what would preoccupy her about this, you know, but

it's just again. I feel like this takes place outside of herself as well, Yes yes, yes, yes, which I love and makes it fun for a Destiner track too, because it's like that's it feels like that's where she really started exploring that, like writing from the perspectives of others, Like this feels like that to be honest, totally, Um,

I am big, big, big into glitch. You have been a glitch, stand that's been a glitch, But it's this is maybe since like and I might be wrong on this, but I feel like since sad, beautiful, tragic her most textured vocal, you can hear the years on her in a way that I love. Yeah, and also like you can hear her like working things out, you know what I mean. Like it's like like the way this doesn't really make sense for me, like emotionally, why is this happening?

You know what I mean? Like it's and it's just this to me, I feel like maybe you could have been on the regular album. I agree, but I understand why it's here because it's it's a complicated lyrical emotion, and so I feel like it belongs on the three. I am in that way absolutely, And like the guitar, there's something really bold about the production on that, where like the guitar is getting like dialed, it's being wiggled. It's literally like it's it's not even like a vibrato

or anything. It's but there's something really anyvative about it. Like if you really listen to the soundscape of this, like it's really really cool. It's experimental and doesn't really make sense but works. Yeah, totally, um okay what it could have shout up, let's talk about this is a moment. This is I mean, I damn sure would it never dance with? When I heard that, I was like, how dare she like that hook? The pain? I love it?

It really just it all pays off in the end, the way the way it just built and built and builds and builds, and you're like, damn ye, chrisms I used to be honestly, And then when she takes it up at the end into her her big register her, I'm like, first of all, one of the great tailorisms on this album that's like a timeless one. Is I regrat you all that you all the time? First of all, let's just say, let's call U Spacebay. This is about

John Mayor. This is about whatever trauma she experienced. Yes, this is about however that formative relationship, whether it was romantic sexual however. I mean, you can read Jessica Simpsons book. She talks about the way this man works in detail. You can listen to Dear John. I mean, there was something that happened here at her age that didn't jibe, which she I think still looks back on and it is like, fuck, why did I let that person funk with me like that? Because it messed me up? Like

and and also not for nothing. But when I say it's like all too well, it's because that song and its bigness about Jake and the way that she had to return to it because of how big that relationship looms, how large it looms in her life, and how emotionally it's such a marker for her that she came out with it and like ten minute ized it and like gave it its moment. This song can't help but get bigger and bigger and bigger as it goes, and I think it might be the best song in this work,

Like Anti Hero is incredible. It makes sense for the album. It is the single. It is the thesis statement what it could have should have. This is like this would exist on any album that she put out. This is just like Capital t Capital asked Taylor Swift in this album that stands on its own island, and I I am thrilled that we got it. And the melodies the core of the hooks. The song is made of hooks again, like her voice is the ranges. There just might be

her rangingest song. It drives. By the end of it, you're like, wow, I mean the thoughts she leaves you with, like this is a song. This is a song. It's the longest song on the album, yep. And it moves in spite of that like it's um, you're right, like I didn't think long enough about the John Mayory of it all. And the reason it builds and it's fully like unleashed, un bridled by the end is because it's

like she has been sitting on this. She's not like really exercised it from her her mind in the in like the thirteen years since it's happened. Oh my god, yep, thirteen You know, I alright, just being personal. I dated an older guy when I was nineteen, and it was a formative relationship from me in positive and negative ways, and I still talk about it in therapy, like and when when someone gets you at that age, it's like there's a before and and after. She says, I miss

who I used to be. It's that person that thought like love and sex and romance all meant one thing. And then you have a relationship where you realize like there's so many layers to all of that, and I wish you would have kept me wondering, you know what

I mean? Like, fuck, I hate that you are going to be the person that is existing in my mind's eye from now on forever when I think about who I used to be and who I am regarding love something that I fixated on and really care about and want so badly, And now I've achieved, but I still have you in my head. He still has real estate

in her mind. In a song that can't help but be bigger than it even should be on this album give Me Back My Girlhood of his mind first, like it is that kind of says it all for you and and if and if you can relate to it in that way, I mean this, this one, this one means a lot to me, to be honest with you, like because you know, like and readers know, if you've had that relationship where you gave the power up, you understand like what it is and how you know that person,

like the person that delivers the first you know what I mean, they will always be there and not for not it's not for everyone that that results in happy feelings or and it always results in at least complicated feelings. And her still mulling over this, and she's like, the pain was heaven. There's a compromise here because she understands that, like it was enjoyable because it was the first and it was this thing that like created the blueprint for

everything else going forward. Yeah, um, I keep talking about this and powers interview with Sam Sanders, but it's it's so you have to listen to it. Everyone should like it. But she says, and this is where I disagree with her, And Paris says that Taylor Swift is a super ego of an artist, right like like her whole her work is super ego. Her work is so okay between the the ego and the super ego, like the it is like all like the impulses. So it's what happens when

you have knee ruk reactions. Yes, yes, your super ego is like the person who's trying to corral it all into morality, and the ego is the one that like is compromising, is going well, maybe there's a way to have both impulses and the sort of inner morals that you set with yourself trying to organize it, maybe even for other people to totally. I think early on in her career, up until I would say reputation, Taylor, Taylor was all about. It was all about impulses, um conflict,

her interests superseding anyone else's. And I think with folklore and evermore, that's when like the ego came in and was like I have I can take some accountability for my own stuff, you know, or even maybe lover. But I think on what it could have showed it. It is like so for it to be so passionate and big and yet still like unsure of itself. I think she she used to be an id artist first and now I think she is ego. Now I think she's someone who's like, m I need to refile, I need

to resort all of this stuff in my mind. Yeah, you know what, there's also this genuine feeling I get when I listened to what which is I'm piste off. I even had to write this sign, you know what I mean, Like I regret you all the time, Like I just want to let you know, like you really took me for a ride, and I wish I hadn't

gotten on it. But like this song will be what I I'm left with and I'm leaving everyone with and honestly like and not to not to be like cheering on her, you know, toxic relationship at nineteen with this man, But like I'm happy and happy forget this song. We all hope, we all hope every person that's a creator hopes that they can take what they've been through like this and externalize it in a way that helps not

only them but everyone else. And and and like I hope that she feels helped by writing this, Like I hope that it gives her some closure to be able to get this out because the dear John of it all, I feel like, yes, she was externalizing, but that's is also in because a little bit of that song is I'm gonna get this guy. I'm gonna call it Dear John, And I almost feel like there might even be a little bit of self consciousness and embarrassment about how bald

that is. And now she's looking back and she's saying, like, you made me feel and look stupid in so many ways, even though Dear John is an incredible so you you humiliated me the fact that I had to go where it is. And also, let's face it, the entire thing with Katie was really about John. Like that fucked Taylor up to the point where it was like it spun off into all different types of directions. But that's, you know, not not to say he caused her trauma, but that's

what formative relationships do, you know what I mean? They spin you out, they change you for a few years, you know what I mean. Like it's very real, and I think it's important to note that, like, let's just keep it to John, like a confessional musician, singer, songwriter

who was very famous and so of horse. She's going to spend the next thirteen years or however long playing all this out publicly putting it in her songwriting, like making some of her persona, which she is acutely aware of the entire time she's working centering that persona on

this kind of wrong illness. It all makes sense. And if you're one of those people who is not a swift ee or as someone who is like a little tired of like the rehashing, like I think, I think it is just the human artistic way to do this

is for her to process this. Does that make sense because because again, like you're not going to get clarity on this type of thing soon afterwards, you know, you know, like what she was able to put out was Dear John, which was basically telling on him and letting people know she was hurt. But this is years later, and this is the song she's released, and it's clear that it still sucks her up, because that is how powerful that relation and chip is in your life a moment a moment.

And then I love that it's the second and last track because she takes a breath and then gives us, dear reader, here's what I've learned. Here's what I'm telling you. Whether or not she's going back and telling herself in the past, or she's letting people know for the future. This is what I've learned. These are my notes, like and the dear reader of it all, Like I mean, she it's a love letter to us and to herself. It is, Yes, it is, it is, it is. We can't make too much of this except that it's a

wonderful song, wonderful closer. Never take advice from someone who's falling apart. Wow, Like what a great pithy line or not pithy, but it's like, it's it's pretty, it's saying a lot. That sentence is saying so much. And that's Taylor, that's Ali. That is out Okay are people I hope? I hope. I'm not like stabbing in the dark with this. Like I think Allison is a new persona is or just a new identity through which we can understand. Taylor Swift is this person who is finally like marrying Taylor

and Taylor together to become Taylor Allison Swift. Yeah, there you go, Alison, Ali, Ali a l I an album and a half literally truly, I love Midnights. I'm happy

to be in the Midnight's era. I don't know what I'm doing in terms of where I'm ranking and the grander scheme, but it's it's close to number one for me, I mean just because of the way I feel like it improves lyrically on the albums of hers that I love, you know what I mean, Like I think, I think if if reputation is my favorite vibe that she has out there, like this is reputation but with incredible like folklore evermore type lyrics where she actually became, you know,

the realized version of who she is as a songwriter. And she was always brilliant because she was always really, really really good at expressing. And so now you see, like it's self expression and also self assessment in a way that works as pop music and vibes, and it's a funk album period period. Maybe it's time to move on to I don't think so, honey, It's time to move on to I don't think so, honey. I don't think we can say much more than all of this.

I mean, we we have, we've enjoyed, we've licked it, snorted it, fucked it, resuscitated it brought it back to life, and we're being buried with it. This is I don't think so, honey, it's where we take one minute to real against something in culture that's pissing us the funk off and something is and it's it's totally separate from Taylor. I just have to say it, Okay, this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so many time starts now. I don't

think so, honey, in the mid term era. The amount of emails that we get from these democratic politicians and these organizations. I'm sorry that the other day I received in one period, twelve emails from Val Demmings. I have to tell you something. You need to cool it. This can't possibly help, like to bother someone so so so so so much, and also state literally every single subject and it's like we're in trouble. We need help. Never felt this bad. It's going badly, Matt. Like it's all

in all lower case, like there Ariana Grande albums. It's like our songs. I'm just like Val. I actually had to unsubscribe, and I did donate because I thought maybe if I donate, it will like no, no, not attacked me as much. It's still came. And it's everyone across the board, the amount of desperation and how they're asking for money, is not helping. It's making me really scared.

I don't think so, honey, And that's one minute. Um No, there's there's no such thing as like feeling good about I would say politicians, not even like I'm not I'm not gonna say politics because obviously, but like, let me, let's just say that, like thinking of politician is cool, is like so dangerous that it's the reason why we're in this fucking nightmare now anyway, like some sort of congressman. You know what, I love it. I love that she

did that. I just the energy from these people is so panicked and frenetic that it just it really, my anxiety is through the roof, and I'm like, it's not even Yeah, It's like it's like when you do like a donation, Let's say you donate to a local candidate in your distruct you get emails from fucking like Warnock in Georgia. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's from politicians who, yeah, sure need your donations. But it's crazy that I keep getting Yeah that we all just keep from from every

corner of the country. It's like you're being and then I'm like, where where did I sign up for this? One, you know what I mean? Of course I want to support and celebrate like everyone that's trying to take these Republicans down, like I needed to happen. But the thing is, just like I wish the energy if we could find a way to make it seem already like a defeat.

I only ever get emails that are like it's going really bad, and and then I I genuinely wonder if that works on people, because because it got me to unsubscribe. I donated, but I unsubscribed, And is that what they wanted? What do you think is gonna happen when you send me eleven I swear to God, eleven emails in one day. I can't even see what's going on in my own life. Every Like, literally, I'm missing things because the amount of political donation emails I get are out of control. Now

we have Bowen Yangs, I don't think so honey. Are you're ready girl, girl? I think I'm ready. This is Bowen Yanks. I don't think so honey. As time starts now, I don't think so honey. Us all moving on from Charlie the self titled album by Charlie Pooth, I feel like we have not as a listenership really admired, appreciated this wonderful album, A tightly written and produced album from a great talent that we cannot yet take for granted. And Charlie Pooth, this man has earned our attention. I

mean it, He's written some of your favorite songs. You need to give this the time. I'm talking to even my sister Matt Rodgers, who has not really given this guy a chance on his new album. It's but really give the songs to listen. Um, well, I haven't listened to the album yet. I listened to Midnights and Charlie in the same day on the same flight, and both were wonderful experiences. There is a place to let those things co exist. You don't have to only listen to

Midnights this week. You don't have to only listen to your favorite arts. You can't expand outwardly if you want to listen to Charlie And that's one minute, and that's a great advertisement for him. And honestly, here's the thing about Charlie Pooth. With me, I always am so excited to listen to what he's doing. And actually on TikTok and like on Instagram, where he like makes his songs.

I think he's truly brilliant. I guess I'm just really still waiting to hear like the song from him that I really connect with, really you haven't found it yet, not really, I mean, like it's but also I appreciate who he is as an artist because there's like a lot of natural like anxiety and like almost like a d D energy and what he does that I think really matches him as like a character, and I really

appreciate that. And I I have enjoyed tons of songs that he's written for other people, I mean, but with him, it's just like and I understand he's so great. I'm just waiting to stand. I'm really waiting to stand. But after I listen to this album, I will let you know, and I'm open to it. You're waiting to stand, You're

not You're not engaging with the material. I know, I know, But I'm just saying, like in the years that he's been a thing, like none of them have like really punched me in the gut, like I fucking love that song, Like it just hasn't really happened for me yet. I'm not saying it won't. Okay, empty cups. Attention, Um that this this is this is old stuff by the way, Um how long? I mean, it's it's really good, It's really good. And then every every song on this new

album is a plus, A plus I mean. And also let's not erase Megan Trainer major. Well, we end every episode with the song. This has been a fabulous episode. First of all, I just want to say now, but I want us to go somewhere because it's two PM. But we're gonna end every episode with a song. But I want to say to my sister, we had a fabulous episode. We had a fabulous episode. I was looking forward to this all week and it did not disappoint

and you delivered, and you deliver. I I always want to know what you have to say about culture, and now you know it's true. Okay, what's the song somebody to choose from? Like we were in Paris, we were so where else? M hmmm, we were in Paris. To listen to more. Make sure you listen to the three. An addition of Midnight of Midnight by Alison m