"Queers Together!" (w/ Justin Tranter)

leal culture number forty nine attacked, can be attacked. And I said to me and vice versa, it's it's actually a verse. It's a verse situation. Um, like Zachary Quinto maybe, um, just kidding, don't don't just just just throwing it out there as a possibility. Um, he has top energy. To me, actually, this can all be cut. I think we keep this anyway. I think that we keep this just throwing it out there. Um,

everyone should be very us. Were all adults anyway? Were all it's actually a roller culture number ninety nine, everyone at all? Right, So the text was are you watching selling Sunset? And I had to say I had been made it through some part of the first season, but wasn't as excited as Bowen seemed to be. Bowen Yang. You are deep into selling Sunset. Well, I am not even that deep. I mean, there's some folks out there

who have. I was talking to Mrs Rose Dammio. She had been to the whole all three seasons in one weekend, um, and we were we were sort of sharing thoughts, but I was I had put this out last week. I was asking people, is it worth it. I'm always suspicious of these shows that are just all white, that these reality shows that have all wait casts. I don't know what the value in this is. I don't particularly care

for real estate um or for properties. You think you don't, you think you don't, and then I mean, but this, I mean I don't know if it's good or about that. The show sort of like versus you. There's that word again, versus you in the langue and like the truly in sort of the world of realists. And now I'm just now I'm paying attention to the counters and the finishes and all that stuff. Oh yeah, I didn't even really

know what staging meant until now. I'm not happy that I do, but I have to say it is like that's actually my wo The whole show lulls you in even with the drama, because the first like five episodes of season one, I would say, I'm just like, I don't really I'm just doing the dishes as I watched this, I'm not really invested. I'm not like yeah, on the

edge of my seat. And then all the threads sort of come together by the last two episodes in the first season and then you're like, Okay, now we're now We're off to the races. It's sort of like mad Men in that way, right, So Son of So Selling Sunset is a lot like it's the mad Men of Dumb the Hills offshoot reality shows, which this very much is.

Even the fonts how they introduced the character really give me the Hills, and like, I feel like this is like if the Hills girls grew up and like really engaged in their job and like really good at their job. If it was all Whitneys, if it was all Whitney's on the Hill, if it was nine whitney Ports and some of them sort of did fun things with their hair, and they all have to sit in a like open

office plan, which I love their office. It's really fun. Also, unfortunately, I would suck the Twins would have would let both the twins take me, probably at the same time. And that's just my journey. You don't have you don't have to agree, you do have to respect. And this is what I'll say, here's how I'm feeling about the girls. Christine Quinn could sell me a migraine for a half a million dollars. I would be too scared to say. Now. She is the show. She is the show. If Christine

Quinn asked me do you have dementia? I would say, yes, I do have dementia. I'd be like, yeah, yeah, this is this is a reference on the show. I mean she so so she and chrishll have this big fight at the end of season one. She she takes Chris shell up on um for selectively forgetting something that she had said, and then Christine keeps saying the line do

you have dementia? Which is kind of kind of wild and but if if Christine, if if I was confronted with that line of questioning, I would say yes, just everyone, I want you to imagine your worst bully from childhood looking you in the eyes, and they're the hottest they've ever looked, and they keep yelling at you. Do you have dementia. That's sort of the reality programming that Bowen

and I are hashtag standing right now. Not only that, but if your childhood bully, if your high school bully was an a fab drag queen like fully who, like I told you this, man, I think she is like an echo of Regina George. Oh yeah, you pointed out that made a lot of sense when you pointed out Bone was saying that Regina George might have been a

formative character in Christine Quinn's life. Well, the way that you and I talk about how Rachel McAdams as Regina George has influenced the whole generation of blonde women who are cruel like I, I think I think Christine is is has sort of inherited that um that's sort of existence. And I think, so it's so wonderful. And Christine, here's the thing. She's funny, she's smart, and she is competent, like I believe her to be a good agent. I

don't Chrischelle, Heather, I don't. I don't know about that. I watched the show and I watched them sort of do their showings, and I'm like, Krishell, why are you so nervous? Yeah, well, I'll tell you so uncomfortable doing this, Krishell to me, I can't. Here's the thing about Krischelle.

When you are someone like Krischell and you walk into Christine's space, you actually do have to earn Christine's yes, And the way that you don't earn her respect is by cowering around, like sort of being nervous around her. When someone comes in the room and you go, I'm sorry, I have to go get a drink. You're you're being dramatic and be you are like running away from conflict. And let me tell you some of my Christine, who is a formidable reality television show villain, is not going

to respect that. And it's gonna be harder for you if you keep creating these problems for yourself by not standing up and being a tough bitch in a in a workplace with tough bitches and the rest of them. Sort of I'm like on the fence about like Heather, I feel like has like um hold on energy, and I'm like, girl, what's happening here? I agree? I feel like Christine Maya are are sort of like that. I see them sort of uh excelling in that environment. And

and I believe them to be good agents. Mary as well. All I like Mary. I can't believe her boyfriend can't believe Mary's born. We can't. We can't really talk about Romaine. I don't. It's too it's it's it's a lot, but it's fraud, it's fraught. I think that um cryschell. Fran Harada pointed this out. Chrystell As as an actress, she needs people to like her and that's why she keeps crumbling. And with Christine, she doesn't give a funk what anyone thinks.

This is who I am actually, and it doesn't end like and it's just it's it's truly an embodiment of confidence, and it's so alluring. It's you're riveted, You're like, I want to like she's the star, Like let's let's fix on her. The way that her stepping out of a vehicle is a cinematic moment just whenever you see whenever they're talking about Christine, and then they cut to a scene of just legs entering like a luxury vehicle and

the song the songs come in. It literally we were said we could we could like like improvised songs that would play. It's like you better hurry up because the crocs are coming in you. You can't stand the heat. Like it's just like she's just like really like she should put out a single? Should put she should put out a single? And that, actually, interestingly enough, is quite a good segue into what I have to say. Is our are true like distinguished guests. I am so excited.

I'm so excited they're here. Um, I mean just this year alone, the the the work has been stellar. I mean where would where think about think about where where we would be without music this year? My life would be so much worse without music this year, specifically music music specifically. I was going to say our our guests contributions to the musical canon, and we don't say that lightly, okay,

because it is canon? And also can I say something it was it was late last year or maybe earlier this year when my concept of time has gone out the window. But who's who's been standing lose you to love me from the beginning, who's been standing from the beginning, Matt Rodgers And you've been standing where the beginning? Love rare and our our our our lovely friend Leland. I mean, what a beautiful sort of convergence of talent there um.

I mean Selena. Selena not only has an army of gays that are her fans, she's got an army of gays behind the scenes. And the queers are are they know that to combine with Selena is something special. Yes, And our guests is actually rocking our shirt that says Queers Together and that's actually an early front runner for title of m early front runner, Matt, why don't you go through the credits. I would be pleased to go

through their credits. So everyone just in two thousand twenty alone, our guest has written songs on Selena Gomez is rare. Lady Gaga's Chromatica. Have you ever heard of it? I've been like stomping the fields on my hikes lately to Chromatica. Romatica an amazing workout album if you have. If you didn't, well, I've been hiking the Griffith Park and it's Chromatica actually has been driving me. One of my personal favorite albums

of the year, Gaslighter Do Alipa's Future Nostalgia. Literally, you could put the fucking album of the Year Grammy, like put together with all of this for me and from my point of view anyway, and the aces under my influence just to name a few, including one of the songs he wrote was of Course you Lose You to Love Me, which I just mentioned before, which was number one hit on the Billboard, which is not for nothing

and achievement. They also wrote I Am I Am America with Sia Diamond who we know Diamond at Yes at this gala. Yes we met her at the human rights gala. They she had performed when m Bowen received his Visibility Awards. She is unbelievable, also not for nothing, but contributed songs to thank you. Next the Jonas Brothers Happiness Begins, Camilla, Caabaos, Romance,

Kesho's High Road, like all truly unbelievable albums. And I have to say, like even going back, like I have songs to bring up that I've been my jams on older albums. He worked with Kelly on a song that I love and I want to talk about UM and yes, I'm so they're excited to um but UM. Basically, this is an activist singer songwriter extraordinaire. I always love to have people that have actually made contributions to the culture.

And this is one of those people. I don't know if I'm supposed to talk yet, but that's too hard not to laugh at that. So well that well, thank you laughing. And the person who that lifel musical laughter belongs to is the one the only welcome to your ears, Justin, and thank you so much for having me. I'm I'm as you all know, I like message you or interact with you on the internet like at least twice a day because I'm I'm obsessed with both of you. So

it's a we loved you honor to be here. It's I mean, we we don't lie when we say like you really have, like you are a part of our lives, like you have created so much of what we enjoy, what we consume. So this is so exciting for us to talk to you. Well, thank you, thank And it's so cool too for you guys to talk about everything that um I've worked on that came out this year, because not that I'm complaining, but so much gets brought back to like my my first couple of years of success.

It's really cool to talk about the stuff that came out now because obviously with COVID and everything, I'm not like doing a thousand interviews. So it's nice to hear people talk about the Dixie Chicks and all that stuff.

It's all totally um. I think we'll talk about this is this is just a concept that I am like fascinated with, just in terms of creative practice in general, because I was reading I was reading an interview if You're justin where you were talking about how the transition from being a vocalist yourself and and and being in this group and performing and touring was wonderful and gratifying and so great, but that you seem to be more suited towards helping other people writing to their voices, and

that you just you just love the practice around writing for other people, which I know, like I don't know why I'm so like fixated on this. I'm just I'm just I'm I'm like sort of like I always spot these people out. These people stand out to me anytime like they make that known. Like it takes like it takes a creative competence to say I am good at helping other people be creative. I think know for me, I was just it happened at the right time, and

I mean like literal like my age. It was like happened at the right age, where like the band had been through so much fucking bullshit, like every industry cliche, have dropped from four record deals, and you know, obviously being a queer person and am person like people just saying to you, like emails that were sent to the whole record label like hey be less gay, or hey can we edit out this shot because your hand is moving too femininely, which is hysterical hand, your hand is

moving gay and like, well you do know that shot the whole video in like gold glitter eyeshadow and the six inch heels, I don't really know. The hand isn't going to really help the situations too late. That sounds like a gay eraser. We can take to this. It's just kind of what it is, semi precious weapons. We should say. Yes, the band was called Signs of Weapons.

Um fabulous glamrock situation, New York City based. We opened for Gaga, we opened for Cashow, We did a whole bunch of awesome ship But when the opportunity to try to write with and four other people showed up, I was like fuck it, Like what else do I have to lose? I've been dropped from all the record deals. Um, and then I discovered how beautiful it was. And I think because in my band, I was living my truth so boldly, um and like a definitely like heightened version

of my truth. It was like hyper sex, hyper fem hyper everything. UM, still who I was, but it was like going for it that I think it really makes it. I have the skill set now to help other people go for whatever their truth is. And it has sadly got to be a glam rocker with a six inch heel collection, but it is digging into people's truths about whether it's like their breakup or something weirder than that

or whatever it is. And I just kind of found, um that it's like such an underrated thing to help other people tell their stories. I think we're also obsessed with telling our own ship, which is good too. Yes. Yeah, And you've really found the emotion in pop like this is this is what? This is Something that I really respond to. Is I love emotional pop music. I love fun pop music. So many of your songs are so fun.

But the reason I love Lose You to Love Me so much is because it really feels like Selena Gomez is truth and it really feels like it came from, you know, the belly of her particular beast, and I really I really responded to that and respected her um so much. Really with this whole album, which I actually have on vinyl um Yeah, and uh, it's really the album fucking slaps and that song, as I think the intro to that album was such a bold choice because

it is a balad, you know it is. It is more emotional than stuff that we're accustomed to hearing from Selena Gomez. But I think it was really the right choice because you have to trust the audience that loves the artist, you know what I mean, like and I think that's what I think. That was a really really good choice of the first single, and what a success it was, well, and it was her first choice, that was it was really Selena is so amazing in so

many ways. Uh, if she wants to at some point in life, she'd be the best A and R that there is. She here's the coolest song, She co writes the coolest songs, and she picks good for You was her putting her foot down from the last album Good for You. Good for You was her putting her the label loved it, but they just didn't think that was a single because radio wasn't that minimal at that point. It wasn't that sort of like mid tempo linear pop music was not a thing. But then it did go

in that direction. Well, you know, I had to do what I had to do. We have someone here that had a little something to do with it. No, but it was Selena going, this is my first fucking single, going all right, let's see what happens. And then it was you know, number one on pop radio, and then the same thing, will Lose You to Love Me, not a typical first single, but also the whole idea of the one to punch of going with lose You to Love Me, and then surprised the next day there was

look at her Now all Selena's idea too. So I'm very grateful to be in the room and be a part of the sun Rine process. But when it comes down to those choices and when it comes to Selena, it's all she has complete control of it and like tells people what is happening. It's really cool to watch. Okay, that's that's that. I I do just want to say how phenomenal look at her now? Is just then, I mean sort of if you want. I mean, I want to just put out there and correct me if I'm wrong, justin.

But like the chorus is basically wow, look at it now. It's it's so like it's so skeletal and like simple, and yet it like fucking like hits you like it. It hits the ear so well that you're like, wait this, there's there's just enough going on here. It's not like it's just it's just so well constructed and so stable with what it has. It's I don't know that that is so so fucking sweet, and I will I love that song so much. And when she told us that she's gonna do the one to punch, I was like,

that's really really smart. But also I think look at it, and I was like, such a fucking smash and could go to number one on radio on its own and gave it its own life. But in terms of the storytelling, it was so smart, so like she was right in the long run. But as a songwriter, you want like all of your of course that it was she was, she was, she did the right thing. She was I think as an artist, like trying to see the forest

for the trees there. And I actually really loved that both those songs were out because it made me more excited for the album, which I was going to speak a lot of different languages. And I would say, also, the thing about um look at It Now that I love is it is a song that is really telling a story, but the choruses is exactly what you're saying, you know what I mean. And I also just love the lyric. Of course she was sad, she's glad, she

thought a bullet to soak up the tears. But look at her Now, which is a perfect follow up to Lose You to Love Me. I didn't realize that storytelling that she was so intentional with that that you know it follows up directly from that song, you know. I always said, like, you know, people who were child stars or who got a moment of like random viral fame from whatever website they get viral on, they can have one hit or one moment or whatever it is. When

there is when it happens again and again. It has to be because the artist is in charge of it and knows what they're doing, you know what I'm saying, Like some kids randomly blow up on TikTok and have one hit. If that kid has fifteen hits, there's a reason, you know that it is that that person has that talent. So Selena coming from Disney, if there would have just been one hit, well she was famous on Disney and it just happened. Now there's been so many. You you

know that it is because of her. It is because she is that good. Yeah, that's part of totally what do you make of artists where the assumption sometimes for an audience is while they couldn't have like masterminded this whole thing, they have a whole team behind them, Like like like where like how do you sort of place that power, in that control in anyone that you work with?

You know, I get asked a tell, what doesn't it make you so mad that like you're the one like writing the songs and they get all the credit, and like, well, first of all, I'm co writing the songs, but second of all, like it always takes a team. Someone has to be in charge, but it always takes a team. And if it's so funny, no one is furious that Meryl Streep didn't write and direct and star in her film. Yet people get furious that pop Stars had help and

I don't. It's such an interesting Whitney Houston never wrote a song. She's a artist, and you can't say she's not exactly or like Dally Parton is one of the great American songwriters. But she also if she hears a song that somebody else wrote and she loves it, she will sing that fucking thing, you know. So it's I just have to laugh it off because people do get weird about it, But like, what are we gonna do? Yeah, so I did I and I did just want to

like we definitely went through the credits. But I want people that might not be as familiar to just understand the breath of like your influence on music. So I

want to list some artists that you've worked with. Britney Spears, Gwen Stefani, Lincoln par Kelly Clarkson, Who's My Girl, Selena Gomez, Justin Bieber, d n C Kesha, who I've really been enjoying her last album actually lately, and I feel like people slept on um in real life, Fifth Harmony, Five Seconds of Summer, Arianna Gaga, of course, B Miller, and Fallout Boy, just to name a few. Obviously, in addition, to that is your girl, Julia Michael, who is your

your partner? Yeah, but about like half of the songs I've ever written have been with with Julia. Yeah. We we once we met kind of, we just had this magical chemistry and wrote. I would say that for their like three years, I wrote like the songs I wrote I wrote with her. Um. And then obviously she became a pop star in her own right, um, and I had to keep working. So you know, I'm not about to go on tour again. So I so now there is a whole other chapter. Um, that stuff that I

didn't do with Julia. But what fucking sucks. Obviously COVID sucks for a lot of reasons. One of the reasons that it sucks for me is that me and Julie a she wasn't gonna tour this year, and we were, we were already back in the studio. We did. Um. I don't know if you've heard Czara Larson's Love Me Land,

but I think you would love it. It's a really fair song called love Me Land that me and Julia did, And me and Julie are about to go do a whole bunch of ship together and then obviously everything got shut down. But yeah, that's my girl. I mean hearing you talk about Julia the way that she's taken off

who and she still managed to maintain this songwriting. Yeah, she's been spitting that play like among like the performance aspect, and it's good that she like knows her comfort, she knows her line in terms of like if she doesn't want to tour, then that's like fully her decision, which is like perfect, Like are you at this point and not to bring up seveny precious weapons again? But are you sort of I mean, was was that did at least such a terrible taste in your mouth that you

just have no interest in anymore? Or I mean, are you open to it in the future. That's such a weird thing because the guys in the band were alsto really close. The drummer in the band works with me on a whole bunch of stuff. I'm currently making a queer Christmas album for a very very magical project that will be announced soon. Um, it's really exciting. It's it's

no fucking joke. And the drummer from SPW is with me working on the whole thing, so we're all still super good it was just the experience of kind of what I went through and it all happened. You know, this was like spw's peak years, like two thousand and eight to two thousand and eleven twelve, and like you know, the ship that reporters would say about our band. They would lose their jobs now for the blatant homophobia that would be said and creative ship. But it was just

kind of exhausted me. And this is going so well, I don't really want to funk with it, you know, And I'm finding that, um there are things I miss. I miss talking about the visual I miss talking about the live show our band. For the live show, we were not known for our songs, which is funny because now I'm a professional songwriter, but um so I missed that.

But you know, I have artists signed to me now and we get to talk about their videos and talk about what the show might look like if you know, America ever gets this fucking ship together and we can all look for again. Um Or, Like I'm working on a bunch of film and TV stuff, which is super exciting because there's it's not just write the song and

go home. There's a whole big conversation involved, so those things that I do miss from being an abandoned touring and performing, I'm finding ways to like scratch those itches in other places. So, um, just to talk about this year a little bit more. I have a couple of questions because you've truly worked on, I mean, several of my favorite albums this year. I mean just just even talking about Chromatica and Gaslighter and Future Nostalgia that's like

so unbelievable. But I did want to ask about Chromatica specifically first, because you wrote nine one one. What intel did you have about the CHROMATICA truth to transition into? Like did you know that was happening when you heard it? What did you think? Like, what did that moment feel like? I wish there was a story to tell you. I had no part of that process. I wrote Alice and I went one with you know. It was like we we we did two days for the album and those

were the two songs. And me and me and Gota go back years and years when be open for her her first couple of shows as Lady Gaga were opening from my band in New York. There's this really cool full circle for us to be together and write songs. You know, well we never wrote in the old days, so right together finally and um, but then you know, Stars Born happened because we wrote the songs before Starsborn came out, and so Stories Store is Born, Star Storis Bar,

Stories and Barn happened. That's about. It's great great film, great film. Um And obviously you know the conversations about what was happening on CHROMATICA. We're not that they ended, but for me they did because I wrote the songs and then she went and did a you know, six month long promo tour for Stars Born. Um, so when I didn't hear I heard it. When you heard it,

that's the first time. That was such a moment. I'm like, I remember listening to it the first time through it that moment, just like that collapse into that song and just how so it's it's such it's such a highlight

of an album that is chocked full of highlights. So it's it's just I had to know, like what you felt when you heard that happen, like because it really does it just it rocket launches you into that next Well, I actually, to be honest, I didn't know what was even I just saw like ten thousand tweets of Carmatica two into nine one one. What the fund are they

talking about? I don't even know what's happening. It was also to like a lot of the old school fans who either fell in love with us in New York at the same time or fell in love with my band because we were on tour with her. They were so excited that we were back together in some version. Um, and so they're all just tweeting directly at me or tagging me, and I'm like, what the funk are these

kids talking about? UM? And so then I listened like it's mean, it's so good, and then to have it become like the meme of the year is pretty pretty fierce, pretty fierce literally incredible, and then um, so to totally shift gears musically. You also worked on gas Lighter, and you wrote so many great things on this on this album, like Texas Man Is is incredible. My favorite song I

think is sleep at Night. I always love like I love a good fucking I love like a great pop song, And I just wanted to ask, like, what was it like to work on that with the icons that are the chicks, like you know, like it's like gay people who have the internet, we say icon a lot, but like they actually are like yeah, for no, for sure, I mean this is no no hyper no hyperbole. This

they are it. All three of them though, like like you watch you go back and watch it up and sing, it's like, oh, they all had the way they all supported each other and Natalie and I mean, like you just that's that that isn't that that almost never happens that kind of like harmony and that support. It's it's so beautiful and inspiring. But yes, their icons. What was

that like? Walking in the first day, which was also fabulous because as me and Teddy Geiger, who I don't know if you love, one of the greatest producers of our time, and she's just she came out as trans a couple of years ago, and so it's just like for you know these we all know that the chicks

are really progressive. We like, we know that, but still their country queens, right, So to like have these country icons with me and you know, possibly the biggest trans music producer in the world, you know, um, pretty cool moment for the first day that we meet, and the first day we met was sleep at night so I mean that that song is so great and I just love, like I said, just it's so emotional and it's so and there's something about you know, you know, the song

is beautifully written. And also Natalie mains voice. I mean, we talked about how you can feel everything she's gone through in her voice. The voices is pure heaven. And what was so fun too, is like so she's you know, it's it's a it's an odd experience. You guys are writers, you understand like you sometimes you know, I don't know how if it works for you guys, but for me, a lot of times, you you write songs with someone, you just met them. There's no lunch beforehand, there's no anything.

So it's like you just meet this person and I'm beyond starstruck. And my my intro to the Chicks is a little bit different than a lot of people. I was Patty Griffin obsessed in in the late nineties. Um so I saw her perform at like the B stage of Lila Fair and like nineties six or ninety seven or something. Patty Griffin, who if you don't know who she is, she's like kind of like the queen of

new folk music. Americana just like Heaven, and the Chicks were obsessed with Patty and UM covered a couple of her songs, including Fly which would let him fly on out Fly, which was amazing song. And so I was like, oh, what's this country group covering Patty Griffin? And so then I fell in love with the Chicks that way. And so even though I found the Chicks in a different

way than most people, I was still obsessed. And so you're meeting this person who's an icon, who I've loved for years, over twenty years, yeah, twenty years, and you just have to write a song for a second you meet. And obviously she was going through a lot of crazy things in her personal life. That's her story to tell, not mine, but she's been public about it so we

can all we all know what's happening. And you know, we're just saying people say things, and my favorite thing to do in the sessions go whatever someone just said, Okay, well that's going in the song. Well that's kind of a mouthful. How do we fit it in to an actual melody and the lyric? And so those pre courses were just like taking direct words from her mouth and finding melodies for them, and the other ones can be

like more poetic and whatever. But I love to find those lyrics in the song that are just like, no, someone actually said that, now we're going to sing it because it just like cuts that much deeper. It's just so funny. I have to laugh, like there's nothing funny about that, like like like that pre court, like like those elements you would say, my husband's girlfriend's husband just called me up and I messed up. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Oh my god. That was just figuring, like shoving actual conversation into song, which is my favorite favorite thing to do. And so that's the first thing we met with that and we just like really loved working together and love the vibe, and um just kept going. And but I think we wrote five songs and four made the album, which that's not a normal presentage normally, right, like half of what you write gets thrown away forever, but that there's so special at all at all. Most of it stayed.

And I gotta say those four songs are pretty much my four favorite, Like young Man, I love young Man. Don't don't try that song. You can't even try that song, Like she's trying to be sitting like she's untriable. It's a thing where it's just like, this album is very much about divorce, and this is an element. This is such a huge element of it. And I feel like in one song she was able to really write a love her to her sons, and you know, you guys just did an unbelievable job on that. And I also

love love my best friend's weddings. I mean like that song is truly, truly great and we bop out to Texas Man and it honestly made me want a Texas Man. It's stirred us. It stirred our loins. Well I'm glad I'm stirring loins, you know what I mean that. I didn't think I was in stir loins with the Dixie Chicks, but at least loins have been stirred. We are blue blue bottom bottoms. No, blue blue bottom bottoms, another front runner for title of No, No, No, What is blue?

What are you getting at here? Okay, we're worried we have to cut this out. Blue. No, it's not getting cut it's it's it's blue ball, blue bonnet, blue bonnet bottom.

That's what I meant lord, blue bonnet girls. Anyway, Yeah, um, we are going to take just the quickest break and be right back with our guests Justin Trance, And believe it or not, we're back and we're here with Justin Trancer, and we've just been kind of, you know, to use an off these word gagging so over their contributions to music.

And I did say before, um so I stand Kelly, and you wrote the song Nostalgic and I this is this is such a good song, and I literally thought to myself, like should this be a single on this album? And then they kind of build on that album. But I love that song. Now what are you what are you saying to me? Okay, I'm reading, I'm just tell truths because it's so long ago, we can just tell all the truths. Tell truths. Okay. One, it is one of my favorite things songs ever. Yeah, I think it's

a great song. But two, it's the first time a superstar ever recorded a song of mine. Now she has got as you know. I'm well, I'm sure both of you by default, because I'm sure Matt has forced you to know every Kelly Clarkson's story ever. But but I saw the view. I can tell you're a fan too, But I know that that Matt is the main one here, but you know, she got um pregnant. I think it was the second kid, and so even though she was my it was the first big cut I ever had.

It was not the first big song, not the first big hors to play out a song of mine, but it was the first big cut because it didn't come out for like another year and a half because of the baby situation. Because great people, they can't stop so um. But Nostalgic is so important to me because of that, and I love that song, and it was one of the I normally don't sing demos because I have like a rock voice, but that is one of the songs I did sing the demo on, so it's like extra

special to my heart. And that was kind of the song that they based like the whole vibe of the album really and they would we would hear from everybody, which I didn't know at the time is actually a bad thing because they A and rs and label people will play it for everyone saying this is our vibe, but then it gives them like two years to find a song in that vibe that maybe is more current or maybe it's more whatever. But at the time, like fabulous.

The whole Kelly album is based off my song, but then it wasn't fabulous because then it wasn't a single and it wasn't blah blah blah. But it's still really special to me, and she sounds so good on it. And when I went because I didn't get to hear her vocal right away. I heard it before it came out, but I went to the New York offices where her labels based, I'm like, oh, do you want to hear her vocal? And I was like, oh my god, you

have to. I'm gonna die. And I'm in this office like trying to be like super cool, like I'm former glam rocker now I'm like buzzing on the pop charts, and they played a Kelly vocal and I start crying in an off building, like because of me, I've been to a fan for so long in her voice is just so fucking good and it just blew my mind piece by pieces, even as like a Kelly I'm not.

I I am not as much of a fierce fan as mad is, but I can recognize that piece by piece is this and it was, I mean, it was the last album she was on before she was kind of liberated into meaning of life. But I feel like a very personal album obviously, but also very like solid, fun, varied songwriting. I would say, like, um, like and you had you had our girl Maren Morris on it, you had, yeah, um there was. I think it's a solid, very overlooked

Kelly album. Maybe not. I mean, maybe it's not to the wider Kelly fan base or or even the narrow Kelly fan base, but I feel like we don't as a culture recognized piece by piece for its musical We're still like, you know, a singles culture. And there wasn't that real home run single on that album, so that people don't know. But you know, if you're listening to this, listen to Nostalgic just because it's you know, my first my first cut, and Nostalgic to me is the bop

on that album. And then I think, actually, I think sometimes what happens with Kelly is she will always find a way to make you talk about how talented she is, because it's when she I remember I was actually watching Live oddly enough, I hadn't watched American Idol and so long, but she had hand to god, I like it was my life when I was young, and then I somehow like, um new to tune in because she was going to be honest, because it was like the quote unquote last season,

now it's back or whatever. But um, but she came back and she was so pregnant, and she did that that piano version of Piece by Piece, and it stopped time and went right to the top of the charts, and she got a Grammy nomination for it and brought more attention to that album. But I was really grateful that she did that as a fan who wanted people to listen to Piece by Piece because I thought it was great that album was made of hooks like that.

And honestly, for me, Nostalgic is the bop of that album for me, because it just she sounds like she was having fun doing it. Sometimes I think in those later years at our c A, it sounds like she was maybe a little disinterested in some of the songs she was singing, like I don't know if she gives a funk about heartbeat song, Like for for me, it's a it's a whatever thing. And when that when it's

it's a bob version of Jimmy Eats World of the Middle. Yeah, but I think that I think she thought the monster on that album was going to be Invincible, which is a great song. Doesn't see a song? Right, yes, yes, yes, and um, for some reason, it just didn't. It didn't make it happen on radio. But there's a lot of good stuff on there, and Nostalgic is my favorite song on it, so I had to give the kudos. Well, think I actually have another Kelly Clarkson story if I

may indulge, yes, please please please. So, um, I was and I mean this, this isn't just like internet talk whatever people say that when they're pretending to be humble. I was actually like super fucking honored and excited to be nominated for Golden Globe because it's like a music person getting to hang out with movie people and TV people. It's like, oh now, I'm like actually cool, Like he's fucking sick, right, so grateful for a Grammy nod, Thank you,

baby Jesus. But like the Golden Globe was kind of cooler because I knew I was gonna get to go to the Golden clubs at my Stars born No for um uh oh my god. What then is the movie called ferninand um, it's a song like Jonas. It's it's like a really beautiful, like inspiring kids song. It's the kids song. But I love it, and um, so I

got to go. And so they put me at like the music table, so it's me and Nick Jonas and he brought Joe as a brother and then um, it was Kelly Clarkson was presenting, so they just put her at the pop music table because they just figured and then and I hadn't met her yet, so even though she caught nostalgic, it was like all done, like she was a Nashville Incent. So I got to meet her finally and what was It was just so cool. And I met Sharon Stone that night and made a total

fool of myself. She's my number one, Like I'll pull myself to Sharon Stone, happen to it. If that's if that's what it takes to save Sharon, I'm gonna do it. So I love that she's a great number one. No, she's my number one of anything anything in the world. I got to meet Sharon Stone and blah blah, but it was so fucking cool to watch. And Matt, You're gonna love us the most is that every movie star.

The reason I met Sharon Stone's because she stopped to introduce herself to Kelly Clarkson, who doesn't love her, who doesn't love Tina Davis stopped to introduce herself to Kelly Clarkson. Every movie I got to meet every fucking A list or I ever wanted to meet because they wanted to

meet Kelly Clarkson. And it's so funny you say that, because that was famously the Red Carpet where she almost tripped down the stairs because she got so excited because Meryl Streep was there and she went over to Mertyl Streep. So I feel like everyone thinks, like, oh, Kelly, she's just like us. You know, she's normal. She fans girls over celebrities. But to hear that they actually are fangirling over her is the real truth. That's And then who's

the who's that? I don't really like care what straight men do in this planet. But there's the guy he was in fourty year old version, what's his name? Steve Carrell? And there's the moment where he gets waxed and yelled Kelly Clarkson. He came over to introduce himself to Kelly Clarkson, she owes her isn't that crazy, And they had this whole moment together about the movie and it was like a whole ship bang. That is so good. I love her so much. She's nice, She's the best. She couldn't

be nice. There couldn't be cooler. She brought her own food to the Golden Globe. She's like, I'm not eating this ship. Kelly has that power though. It's like she is forever a pop culture like a staple, but like this whole like she like legitimized the whole show, a whole franchise worldwide, like she is the reason why idolists still, you know, like it's it's wild, and she'll never go away because she always she she's always going to remind you how talented she is and to back it up.

She's also has that energy from within that emanates out like not surprised at all that she's now when Emmy winning daytime talk show hosts, like it's it just nothing surprises me. And I always knew, like I've been a fan now for almost twenty years of hers, like a big fan, and I've always even in the ups and

downs of her career because there were major downs. I mean the my December era whatever was going on with her and Clive Davis at that time, Like that was tough, and like there there there's been ups and downs, but I'm I never am worried about her. I'm always just like excited about what she's gonna do next, and I always enjoy everything she does. And I wanted to, but I didn't want to ask about our other icon, which is Gaga. Um just you know we touched on the

nine on one of it all. There was this time in Gaga's career even before Star is Born. Well, I mean and then I'll sort of like made sense later on in hindsight, but like you had these dual tracks of Gaga after Joanne where she was doing the Cure and you're like, okay, this is like nineties R and B, like what is this? This is? This is this is something fun and novel in New and then and then you know Stars Born happened, and then you're like, okay, so that must have been like a Star is Born

cut or something she wanted to keep for herself. And then but then like the Enigma thing happened in Vegas where like is this the Enigma era Enigma and then chromatic it happened, but then it all sort of converged, I think in the perfect way with Chromatica, where you had like new disco and like house, like all these different elements sort of coming together. So I think it all sort of convalesced and and coalesced in in the

right way. Yeah. When blood Pop, who produced the bulk of Chromatica, UM is just I think one of the coolest producers in the world. Uh. And we me and Julia did justin Bieber Sorry with blood Pop. M so another monster smash, just a little ditty for the kids for the children's UM. But it was really cool too because then when I went back and wrote on Chromatica with Gaga, um, it was with blood Pop again, who I hadn't seen for we a couple of sessions since Sorry,

but not a lot. And so then it was so cool because it's not only coming back with Gaga, but then getting back with blood Pop, who's just his his sound choice is like kind of the coolest in the world right now. He likes can you talk a little bit? Although I know that you can't share the gritty details, like can you talk a little bit or speak to the creative collaborative environment that is working with Lady Gaga.

Yeah sure, I mean, you know it's I've been in some form or another, been around her from a couple of years before she got I would say the Fame, but actually the album, the fame and being famous, and then I'm very much at the beginning, yeah yeah, and then working on Cromatica and um, you know, she just just is the musicians musician, she's the performers performer. Um, you know those all the huge hits from the Fame,

it was just her and read one alone. It was just the two of them, which I think is you gut from my you know, follow both of you enough online like your pop super fans. You know that nowadays most songs have minimum three people minimum, but like a lot of times there's a lot more, especially if it's their samples involved and you have to credit the writers from the original sample and there's like then there ends

up being twenty people in the song. All those early Gaga songs that was sucking her and her alone, I mean speechless, she wrote by herself, you know what I mean, Like there's like you're you You're walking into a room with a real songwriter, a real singer, and a real performer. Um, and then now she's a fucking actress, you know what I mean, Like the whole You're walking into someone who has the whole thing and who knows exactly where she's what she's aiming for, and he's gonna fucking figure out

how she's going to hit that balls like every time. Um. And also to what's so cool with hers is she just takes real risks, not like, oh, I'm a pop star who's gonna like, you know, get personal this time. No, Like she takes you know, that's always really take you know, love, I'm getting this is my most personal album. Yeah, what

about the last single from yesterday that wasn't anyway? She always takes real risks, like the sonic jumps and the whole look changes, And I just think it's it's so cool to like be a part of the process with someone who's jumping off the fucking ledge every time. Like it's that. That's honestly we talked about Kelly. For me, that's for me. Yeah, because the Monster ball did you see me on the Monster I did not see the Monster The first tour I ever saw was Joanne, but

Monster Ball I was following. But she literally did save his life. She did, but but but but with the Monster Ball, I was looking up every single YouTube video of people recording and of course it was it was it was s p W and it was And then I have rewatched the HBO Fame Monster on the Monster Ball just recording. It's pretty insane. So many times, I think that is one of the most important tours ever. It's our generation. It's our generations. Yeah, it's our generations,

like Blond Ambition, Who's That Girl? And um The Girly Show all in one. It's like all these huge Madonna tours all in one because she like did like what seven different legs of it. It It was like a two year long tour. I was that was There was only six weeks we didn't do because the City Sisters did six weeks. But so of the two year tour, we did every single show except you know, however, many shows

are in six weeks, but nuts we did. We did North America twice, we did Europe twice, we did Australia only one. But just like it just never ever, it might have been North America three times. I don't fucking know, because she did it was a lot, because she did North America. She did this stage version, the theater version, she and then the arena version, and that she'd may be born this way into born this way. Like the theater version I think is possibly like my my most

favorite pop tour. And I don't mean because I was opening. I mean like her, her show, not me. Her show was my most I think, my most favorite pop tour, like the last at least fifteen years. It's you know, blond Ambition holds a very special place in my heart. But I definitely think that the theater version of the Monster Ball was like actual perfection. There was one time we were in the l a show and I went out to watch. I watched like almost every night because

it was just that good. Why not you know, there's people actually like killing each other for tickets and I can just like walk out and see it so I might do it. She did this thing with the audience like it was a stop in one of the songs.

I can't which one she was in, like the beige skeletal outfit, and she stopped and like they were applodding and like she just let them keep applauding, and then she did like a fake yawn like and they went even crazier and I was like, well, that's one of the cooler things I've ever seen one a rock star move.

And no, my favorite, the thing that has like informed everything about like my conception of performance is her during the Love Game, in between Love Game and the remix of it, like her just doing the whole like damn motherfuckers dance motherfucker's or her just being like I've heard they've got really big cock here in Northern Ireland, So Belfast, get your dicks out, like every city like just just mad living in the city's like it's it's so genius.

It's like what it really that you bring up Belfast because in many cities in Belfast is one of them, they would put up after the first night that I would perform the next night, they would either um threatened to not let us perform if I didn't change certain aspects of the show, or they'd put up signs saying that the opening act is not appropriate for children. That's

obviously like extreme fem phobia. And at that time I was I was in homophobia and like I was presenting so fem which I still do now if I'm like going out, but it's only I'm going out. But um, you know, so there's elements of transphobia and that where they would like literally threaten to arrest us happened in Boston, um, and then in Belfast, like we was all one of the many times like warning like this is not appropriate for children, and I'd be like, but when the SIS

woman says get your cocks out, totally fine. But because I'm I mean are we had some crazy lyrics and like I would change my outfit on stage and it looked like I was naked, but it was a full like nude body suit, so I was not naked at all. Um, but I'm like, oh, that's that's interesting. So she's cool, but I'm gonna get arrested. Millions and millions of people in this world are literally afraid of gay people and of gay sex, which is literally what homophobia is and means.

And it's so it's very, um shocking to confront that, even in the environment that is like a Lady Gaga show,

but that is unfortunately, um, a reality. I um but what but really quickly, I I just I love that Justin's pointing out the distinction between homophobia and femp and of course trans but the fem phobic aspect is this thing where it's like sometimes I'll just I mean this past season of work, I would just be standing in a sketch, and then I think, like I would get tweets that week when I wasn't in any other sketch besides just like basically standing in the corner of one

and saying one thing, and then someone being like multiple people being like Bowen keeps acting gay? Why why does he keep acting gay? Can we do anything with his hand? His hand is being gay. There's like, no, there's nothing we can do about our very nature. I mean, thank thankfully, I don't I don't get that note internally, um, which

which which I'm very grateful for. But I mean in terms of, like the response from just anybody thinking that, like thinking that there's likely there's a threshold of gayness that they can handle as an as an audience member is like so interesting to me. It drives it drove me insane. I was just like, this is it's not homophobia, because homophobia is like, okay, cool, Like the idea of a gay person I'm is like enrages me. But the idea of a person like with a limp wrist visibly

visibly fem's totally different. Yeah, that's it's you know, I think too because and I try to always like forgive queer people because there we've there's so much shame that's been put upon us. As we all know. You know, gay men are very guilty of fem phobia too. When you're opening for God, God, there's a lot of gay men who are very uncomfortable with me being so femi and so sexual as well, because it's like, okay, no, we're cool with like Neil Patrick Harris, but you not.

That's too far. That's too far. Um. And Neil Patrick Harris can play head big, but that's a character and this is actually who you are. So that's because we know he wears a tie. We love it tie. We've seen it. We've seen the girls in it. You know, we've seen him in a tie and so and the tie wearing a man very safe. Yeah, and the pe

standing up. Thanks, thanks, thank you, even when they're tired, even when they're tired, you know what you know, because we have to ask you the question, the question capital t capital que but before we do. I would be remiss if I didn't mention just one more song which makes me act like an absolute wrror um and my and my and my dwellings here, which is the iconic

make Me Feel by Janelle Mona. I mean, can we just like this and Dirty Computer the whole album unbelievable but make me feel said, this is what I am like. Can you speak a little bit about that song? And working with Janelle? I mean, one of the coolest human beings to ever live, right, that's just we all love them. And she shows up to the studio looking fierce, which I really appreciate. You know, I feel like if we're it there, you know I was I was writing this

Christmas album. I telling you guys about I was writing the Christmas album in my house with my friends. We all got tested so we could be together, you know, like do this album and I still show up too. If I'm gonna if I'm gonna write a song, there needs to be some sort of look. You know. If it's gonna be a T shirt like this, I'm still going to do like a high waisted jean, I'm still gonna put a fierce shoe on. We're creating. We're creating. You're coming to work, you're dressing in work at tire.

If we're creating, we're creating, and that's real culture number one hundred and six. If we're created, we're c And I don't think you can create in sweatpants. I just don't. I don't agree with it. I don't approve of it. And I'm ready, I'm ready to die in this hill. You know, of all the things I agree with, but my real activism is sweatpants while creating. It should be outlawed. Bamn. I'm calling Glad and telling them the new agenda. This is it. Yes, and you are a board member, a

board member, and they are a board member. Yeah you. By the way, Also to just you guys, know, all pronouns are fine with me, so don't ever stress with my pounce love them all, take them, I take them. But they are a board member, damn it. So Janelle shows up to the studio always in a look alia every time, every time. I love it. And what a gorgeous to talk about. Two gorgeous women. Oh my god, women, Oh my god. I saw alipa guest hosting Kimmel the

other night. I was like this bitch is on a zoom looking like oh, a model all day every day. Gwen Stefani, Honey, I'll show up to the house at ten am, you know, because she's on mom schedule. So I'm showing up at tenni m to write a song with Gwen. She's she's looking like she's looking like Gwen Stefani and the she's always done. She's just she's always done. I'm not saying everyone has to live that life, but I just want to shout out the people didn't do

because I think it does take work. It doesn't take work. She's the same age as Ted. Our Friendicle Conlin says this. She's conservativism eats you from the inside. You look like shit and people look mean you know what I mean, ugly people inside, deep and deep in there. This is true, but make me feel so how to talk about where this fucking came from? Like, because this is this this

song is an Alzheimer thank you. Um it came from uh Me and Julia, Mattman and Robin knowing that we were maybe going to have a chance to Matt and Robin are my favorite producers in the world. Mind now, Matt Men and Robin the best. Oh and they're like super cute Swedish boys, like they're just the best. Um, one just had a baby. Congratulations, creepy, but good for him.

Babies are terrifying. But um, so we knew we were gonna get a chance to maybe work with her, so we like just dreamed up a little starter idea because she's a real writer, right, so you can't show up the song with Genomene, she's gonna smack you in the face. Like it's gotta be just a little starter idea. And um, Luckily she came in, she heard it and she was

like fuck, yes, let's go. Um. And it's one of those magical songs all my favorite songs for the most part, they all it feels like they write themselves, like you don't know who said what or where it happened. It just kind of comes and like the meat of all my favorite songs, like the core of them. Um all happen in like I would say, forty five minutes at the longest, Like it just like this dump of creativity. Um,

what a horrible word choice, dun't dump of creativity. Unfortunately, it's a front runner for the title of I Don't Know what to say, when these things happen, it's it's against my better judgment. We have to just do what the universe is saying, you know, just let it happen. Yeah, it's like you know what it is, it's like stung writing. Really when the title of that arrives, it arrives, and dump of Creativity is registering at about number three on

the list things could change, things could change. We don't know that is truthful operation. That's like when that's what it's like the best and that's why it's always so funny, which I love that you guys have not asked me this at all today, Like so at this part of the song, who did that part? And not only is that not important because we're all in there doing it together, but most of the time I don't even remember, you

know it, Julia came in with the main idea. Of course we remember that, like she came in with the main idea, like hands to myself as Julia walked in with that idea, So of course we remember that. I love that song. Oh my god, the body of work, thank you, but yes, just and actually what's really cool too is that when we were writing it, um the lyric sexual bender. It was kind of being interpreted as like when you go on a drinking bender, like a second, that's how that's how I hear it. That's how I

hear it too. But then she made the video that was very clearly a bisexual situation. So a lot of people were like, oh, sexual bender, like a gender bender, but a sexual bender, like she can go both ways. And I was like, oh, that's a lot cooler than what I thought. The song that I isn't that cool. So I don't know she heard, like if that's how she wanted the video to like heighten that line, or if it's just with all amazing coincidence, but yeah, she's

She's the best. What a pre chorus it's thinking perfect? So good. Also, wait, we have to shout out, um two of two of my favorite songs that you've worked on, which are off well of course Erica Jane, how many facts? But also yes the number one but let me let me couple these together. And then Britney Spears do you

want to you want to come over? I think like on ironically, like one of Brittany's better songs, RuPaul's drag Race is making the biggest mistake of their life by not having that as a lip sing song to me is screaming out my first lip snce make me feel oh my god. Yes, it was a winning lips sha motherfucking kol make me feel oh my god. Wow. Yeah, that was the last episode. That was the last at WoT that cool? Well, honestly, I will say, do you want to come over? Should be allips song? That song

is it? Whatever you want, whatever you need a hut like it's it's again, it's skeletal. It's like there's there's no there's no excess. It's exactly the amount that we need. That's matt Man and Robin production as well, Julia, Mattman and Robin and we wrote it the morning after we were all in Vegas on this in this writing camp, and we went to go see Brittany perform, of course, and she pulled me up on stage because her manager,

you know, made it, fixed it. So I got to be up on stage and I got to be like the when she's like the Dominatrix thing and she's like I crawl, you know that whole thing. Have you seen the Vegas Show? Anybody? I've not seen the Vega Show. I've seen enough clips to basically piece it all together. Okay, then like Andy Cohen did, like you know whatever. Yeah, So I was doing that, and then the next morning we wrote make Me Not, Make Me Feel Sorry? Do you want to Come over? Um? And fully inspired by

um by the moment. Yeah, zanes An r had asked us to try to like submit some songs for Zane and we were just too overwhelmed by the performance we saw the night before that we just had to write a Brittany song. Sometimes you just got to write a Brittany song, I find, you know what I mean, especially in Vegas when you're in Vegas and she's in the air. She's in the air in the Vegas. When you go to Vegas, it like it is informed by who's like there. There's like the Secret and Royd era where it's like

you go to it. Like I remember as a kid going to Vegas and being like, oh, like this is where like miles like two miles away from wherever, secret from wherever Selina's wherever we're like that person is and like she like was like the queen of Vegas for like that period. Yeah, well I think Brittany reinvented what Vegas meant like, you know, even though it wasn't at her peak peak of fames, she was still Brittany was

still kicking ass. And so to go to Vegas where everyone else went like when it was years and years over. So I think Brittany really reinvented all these all these people are going in their prime. I mean, Gaga was just there. It was sucking stars Born took over the whole planet, you know what I mean? Do you do you have any thoughts about what is happening with Brittany

right now? I mean, I feel like it's kind of top of mind for everyone that is a big fan of hers, Like I think that everyone's a little concerned. I'm wondering if you have a take on that situation. And my take is that I just love her so much and the because you know, we did right together. Do you want to come over? We just wrote for her, but some of the songs in the album we one pcent wrote together. We were in the room, so she's

also they're contributing. And yeah, there's a song called just like Me on um Glory that's this really twisted concept of her amazing concepts. Twisted is a compliment when you talk about Britney to be very careful because her fans are very passionate. So when I say twisted, the beautiful Britney fans, I mean there's a compliment, had this beautifully twisted concept about walking in on her lover, cheating on her with someone who looks just like me. I see

twisted concept, twisted, twisted. Yeah, And so yeah, definitely spent time with her. She couldn't be sweeter, she couldn't be cooler. That beautiful vocal tone is actually just comes out of her face, that special weird tone of hers again, weird compliment Britney fans ums. And so I just love her and I have so much love for her, And all I really want to say is that I just hope whatever is happening, that she is as happy as she

possibly can be. Yes, I think with the controversy, uh, we're all just I mean, you can't really take a side on it beyond just being like, we just hope she's okay, like she turns out okay. Yeah, and it's tough too. I think with you know, I think some of the who I just I just wonder if all this drama is helping her, you know, That's what concerns me, is that I know that people want the best of her. I know that people are are rooting for her. Um, I just hope that the way that they're rooting is

actually helping her. That's because I just want amazing. I wanted to be happy, and that's all, you know, and that's all I know. I think I think fandom has evolved over the last uh a few years in a way that I think or and I can see that she is able to tell when concern for her and care for her is is coming from a good place. And I think there is this collective sense of like, what's different from how however she experienced things in her past is that I think it's very clear that everyone

is just um, just wants the best for her. Yeah, exactly. And that's what's tough, is that it's all with any with anyone who's in the limelight. It's you know, when fans are trying to express love, it's a tricky thing because we don't know how that person wants to receive love.

Of course, of course, that's the fucking triple quadruple edge sort of being famous is like who knows what the right thing to do is so I just wanted to be happy and healthy and she deserves the best because she's given us all she's I mean, that's the thing too, is like you have to remember Britney Spears's contributions to music and pop culture. Like it's not just it's not just like she came in was a success and now it's like, uh, you know, she's doing whatever she's doing

and is feeling harever she's feeling. She came in and she changed the culture, you know what I mean. She is a once in a lifetime, once in a generation um movement moment like it is it is, and she has earned this place in people's hearts. That that's where I think this is all coming from. It's like, it's it's not like we are just you know, naval gazers wanting to know what's going on with her. It's we we need Brittany to be all right, and we we

we love Brittany from the bottom of our hearts. And we are people who call ourselves lost culture stuff and we talked about pop culture and let's give it up for Britney Spears because she is a legend. And it's an overused word, but that's a real bona fide living legend well, and she changed pop culture like this second her video showed up on MTAs second she showed up, it was one world, and then the next day it was another world, another world, and the people are still

rooting for her. Happiness twenty two years later is fucking amazing and she deserves it, though she she she has put in the work to this fan base that you know she deserves all that love, every second of it. You're right, Um, I want to ask one thing before we do a break, and then we'll ask justin the question. But the thing that I do want to ask, and

I really genuinely want to know is them. I talked to James Anderson, who's this writer SNL who's been there for twenty years and who's who's written so many things, and he talks to me all the time about how he's like sometimes I'm just like I forgot that I

wrote that thing. Do you have that kind of thing with your catalog or I'm from Okay, that's perfect and that that is only a good sign that you have, like are so creatively just like solid with your output that you're just like, oh, it's not even about keeping track of my hits anymore. You know, well also too, it's just like you know, you'll be in of course, the ones that got played to death on the radio.

It's hard not to remember them. But you know, before the world ended, and you'd be walking through the grocery store or something and like an album cut would come up, because that's just what's on the grocery stores playlist, I'd be like, that sounds so familiar. What is this cool? Right? Got it? I actually co wrote the song and it's a really weird. It's like such a weird thing to like on the Gwen album, I made, um, this is what the truth feel This is what the truth feels like.

Great album, great album, Thank you, And there's so many album cuts on there that like grocery stores love like make Me Like You is a grocery store song, and I mean that in the highest honor. Oh god, it's so good. I love Misery. Misery is my number one from that whole album. I think, Yeah, that was that was that was a special because she she's in my in my probably top three artists of all time. Work with her was like it was pretty shocking. And then to make an entire album with her, and then a

Christmas album with her. It's like just I'm good, I can just I can jump in my pool, never come out ever again. Do you remember that you wrote like Maria by Fifth Harmony? You know, because I remember again it's so so Camila's Camila is like lokin, no joke. Camille is so fucking talented it's disturbing. It's disturbing. Her voice terrific. Her voice, the way she writes melodies is terrific. But like Maria again, if I'm talking way too much,

you can cut all this out. But the I'm living okay. So, like Maria, I wrote with a woman named Roger Kumari and the producer J R. Rhoda, and we are my first it ever was follow up boys centuries um probably might have not crossed your guys radar because which they actually wrote after watching a YouTube documentary about Marsha P. Johnson and You'll remember me for centuries. And then I went in and wrote, so happy birthday, Marcia. It's Marsha's birthday.

Mr Mashaie. She would have been seventy a much much not nearly as important. Note. So I was with that team and the producers Like I just talked to Fifth Harmonies A and R. They really want a song where they sample something from Mariah and I was like, okay, cool, and then he sampled the and I was like, well, that sample is just too iconic. We have to acknowledge Mariah in the lyric. It will just be distracting. It's too distracting. Um. And so that's that's how that happened.

And pretty pretty dope that because Fifth Harmony does have one of those crazy fan bases. So even though it's not it's not even close to one of my like most well known songs, it does get brought up a lot because that fan base does not funk around. No, I'm a I'm a lover of harmonizing and harmony. I I love it harmony. And we were we were saying,

Normandy was it since before everyone else? I mean that album, that first album is, I mean Sledgehammer and then Top Down and then like that is such a solid album. Do you know who wrote Sledgehammer? Megan Trainer? Yes, I didn't know this, And so she's kind of a kind of the slagh of the millennium, isn't she? Megan Trainer? I wish that everyone could see Matt Space right now because the true sort of like you. It's like it feels like you're Sherlock Holmes, who just get the ultimate case.

Let's get down to business here. Meghan Trainers kind of the slagh of them the millennium. I've only ever written one song with Megan Trainer and it's called Genetics, And if you haven't heard it, it it features the pussy Cat Dolls and you guys would love it. It's like one of the gayest bops of all time, which is obviously compliment. It's obviously complain. I don't need any like I think with her fans call themselves like m trains or something. I don't when I say it's the gayest song ever,

that's obviously a compliment. Um, listen to Genetics. It will it will ruin your life in all the right ways. Best Megan and pop culture. Megan McCain can take a walk. Um. I also just want to actually shout out one other song, which is is this okay? Is this annoying to you that we're just making you talk about? I'm loving it because also to guys like I really aren't asking you about any of the big radio hits, so I never

get to talk about these songs. So I'm loving Well, I'm going to continue that trend and say, you know what song made me get to my knees and actually almost crying was Jojo song music pitch that fucking song.

I'm obsessed with that song and she but when if you heard this, it's basically it's basically it's the first track on her album called Mad Love I Believe Um and she it's basically it's a ballad and it opens the it opens the album, and it's basically her saying music is the love of her life and she has she bets her life on music every day and she will never stop despite the fact that it's been so hard for she has been paid dust by the industry, and she is so gifted and so talented and still

is out there killing it. And this this song to me, can you talk about that song? I would love to Working with Jojo was so fucking amazing, like all of us, like, not only is that voice insane, but knowing if you're paying attention, you know the fucking hell she's been put through with a crazy first record deal and all this ship. So to get to work with her was so unbelievable, and like, I love someone like this, Like the more textured, smaller voices that I get to work with. I love

that because you tell stories in different ways. But then when you work with someone like Jojo, you can tell stories in like a fucking in a whole other way. Right, It's like a Natalie Mains thing. Her voice is like cinema. It's like it could do it all, it really And then you know that song. Um, the producer name, uh, his name is Ucy, but he goes by Yusufer you know the producers. He's he's a really really awesome guy

and very cute. Um and he was playing piano and we're worth this amazing other writer named Hanley Warner who did Katie Perry's Never Really Over, which I think is a rated so great song for me, one of the best songs that's come out in the past. This posse to four of Us, So the three of us and Jojo. We had written probably six songs together at this point, and this was the last one. Like, Okay, I think we're done with the album, but I didn't do the

whole album. But just like we were, she was close to the end of her process, and um, let's just see you can get one more and let's just be super raw and vulnerable, like screw the computer. Let's just go over to the piano and see what happens. And um uc started playing, Hayley started singing this melody and Joe, Joe and I were just kind of talking about what she wanted to say, and we talked about some real, real honest, raw raw shit and that song about her

you know, her dad and all this stuff. Um and so it's just kind of one of those things that fell out sitting around a piano like it was the old days, no computers involved. Obviously, eventually they had to get involved, but we just wrote it at the piano, like from the heart and doing what I'd love to do the most, which is just like talk to the artist and figure out how I can navigate their truth the best way possible. All the readers have to listen

to this song music by Jojo. It's amazing. It was a cold writer on the damn track, which is saying something. Jojo just sent me a vocal um on Friday night or Saturday night of this song she's featuring on for this art I'm working with it's like a DJ producers, super cool thing. I don't think I can say who it is, but Jojo sent me a vocal You're not ready, You're not ready. It's like a it's fun. It's like a bop, but she's like still singing her fucking ass off,

which sometimes it's hard to do on a bop. It's kind of hard to like really sing. But Joe Jo, so of course it happens. Get ready for it. You'll know it when you hear it's coming. I think in October, who is the most underrated artist right now? The most underrated artist out right now? Um, I mean my favorite artist. She's not really underrated, but I think she should be a thousand times bigger. Is Phoebe Bridgers? Um obsessed with shoe Bridgers. She's just she's like a songwriters songwriter, but

her also vocally she's amazing. Um, she's my favorite artist right now. Oh to Neil Towns, I don't know if you all ever get into the like the cooler side of country music. Well, Dixie Chicks, so obviously you do. To Neil Towns has a song called Somebody's Daughter that will ruin your life. I guess Tom write with Tanil in a couple of weeks over Zoom, and I'm so

fucking excited to check that out. It's like my new favorite, Like she's my I think she's like the best thing to come out of Nashville in like maybe ten years. Like she's unbelievable. I love that, And I love that you shouted out Phobe Bridgers, Mat, you should listen to this album Punisher. It's it's so good. And I've heard a lot about emotional emotion sickness. Have you heard have you listen to that song? Matt, Oh, I'll send you

this stuff. It's it's so good, Oh my god. And it's also I'm so because like she's on like she's indies, she's cool as like I'll never get to work with her. So it's really nice to to have like this this to find a new album that I'm just obsessed with as like a fan, like I'm fifteen again. It's not about like, yeah, I think I could work on that, No, it's just like I just listened to it endlessly and

I wish that I was that good. That's pure. I mean, I I am When her album came out and I woke up groggy, and I just decided to go to go on a run of impressions of her where I did I like, I like improvised a Phoebe Bridger song and I kept doing it and then it was just like I didn't know he was a scientologist, Like it's all that's like crazy, these crazy details that she's she's such a good lyricist. Um anyway, like I like just

like tweeted them and then um didn't expect anything. And then this was just like this is this is how Chloe Fineman Missfield like like like Phoebe found and retweeted. I was like, this is this is the perfect like full circle thing where like she was able to like she had like a sense of humor about her own work, which I was like, that's cool, like that is like the ideal and good for her for like being there

because anyway, she just seems rats. Speaking of Chloe, when you guys were talking about selling Sunset at the beginning, the only thing I know of selling Sunset is Chloe's impersonation of the one one Yes. So I was like, well, I kind of know talking about but only because you know, I stalk all of your whole posse on the internet.

You need to actually become familiar with Christine Quinn from selling Sunset, because I think the tool you could work together because I don't know if she has any musical talent at all, but I don't think it matters. I think that she should become I mean she's like an Erica Jane. I have done reality star before. I mean Erica does have talent though, so I don't know. But

you brought up how many thoughts before? And it was so funny is that one of my first gigs ever of writing for other people was to write for Erica Jane. It was not how many facts, it was like way earlier and yeah, and she heard something that I had written. It would never came out, but someone played her some demo I had done and she was like, oh that that that that's fabulous, and like checked out my band.

I was like, Oh, that's definitely who should be working on my project me Um to Miami, which was really glamorous at that time my life. I hadn't been flown anywhere because in the band you get places, but you pay for it yourself, Like she paid for my ticket and I felt so chic um and I don't think any of the songs ever came out. But then later when I had a bunch of hits and someone from her team hit up my publisher and like, anyway, I know, I know she's a reality star, but is there anyway

Justin would work on this? And of course my publisher knew that, Like how Eric was one of the first people to ever think I was a good songwriter, And she was like, let me call let me call Justin, because I'm pretty sure they'll be down to do this. And I was like, oh, I'm fucking giving Erica Jane a fucking song to launch her off of Real Housewives? That what She's not Real Housewives? Right? Yeah happening, So yeah, maybe Erica Jane had a full another another full circle moment.

Many of those in this car, how matters do I get? And no like current like pop star would ever sing that. Not only do I just she deserves the respect because she she believes me before a lot of people did. But I'm not going to get any other pop star to say zero zero zero none. How many funks do

I give? And then there's some really weird rhyme in like the second verse way I ran like dicks with eight somehow, like you can suck on my date and like I've had eight, Like it's not often that you get to force rhyme dick with the number eight, and if you have that opportunity, you've got to take it. Also, nothingnother, but she earns that because she can jump into a split, like, come on, the woman is giving you everything the video

for oh my God, it's one of her videos. But she expensive and I still don't give a fuck which and she lands into that split. I'm like, bitch, this is not a drill. This is I couldn't believe at the time. I wasn't watching house I was like the attict I am now, But at the time I was like, she's on Real Housewives. This is like slang like I've never seen before since the war. I haven't seen slanging

like this since the war. Um, okay, we have to ask you the question, okay, and that is what is the culture that made you say culture is for me? This is formative culture that sort of set you in a cultural direction. You said, Sharon Stone is your number one of all number ones? But is there are there other things that come to mind? So you know, of course my my I've listened to the pot I know how this goes. And my publicist warned me that I would have to answer these and so warned, well, you

know you were warned. Every interview we do is an assault. So it's good that you were warned. And it was you know, I have I have an answer for you. But just before, I said, I want to just let you know there was some serious ties, if not runner ups involved, So why don't you say the honorable mentions? Alright?

So serious honorable mention was Debbie Gibson. Now I think I'm older cult, so I don't know if you understand the power, you understand the power of Debbie Gibson, the original Christina Aguilera sort of you know, and she was she produced and wrote everything alone alone, bitch alone. So this woman is no joke. And I remember being five years old listening to her CD tape. It was a tape then, because that's how old am. So this was

I think it was like Cossette, Miss Cassette Williams. She was cossetting, she was cossetting for Jesus, and there was a song and I went like, I think I can do this. Wow, I could like that So that's a big culture moment for me because it was like pop pop,

female songwriter, big thing right then. There was also much much, much much later in life, but in terms of like pop cultures, like the trash ere side, because I was a total music snob as a kid, because once I was past Debbie Gibbson, it was like you were either Courtney Love or Anti DiFranco or Tory Amos or you didn't exist, like you had to be the coolest of the cool you know, the first like big pop culture kind of like I don't want to say trashy because

I loved it and respected it was Jessica Simpson's reality situation and were specifically her g Q photo shoot where she's in um An America can flag bathing suit in a parachute and the parachute straps are like really giving a nice frame for the nether regions. That was a moment I was like, Okay, this type of pop culture now I'm on board. I never understood, but I'm, you know, twenty year old hipster living in Brooklyn, and I think all these hipsters are wrong. Please stop talking about Strokes.

I want to talk about Jessica Simpson in a parachute, so big moment. But then the one that I'm really choosing to define me is the Madonna Vogue performance on the v M A S where she was giving you full Marie Antoinette, And that was the moment I went, my life is over. If I'm not Madonna or any sort of version of a female pop star, I'm not going to survive this world. The best to ever do it,

the best to ever do ever do it. Yeah, And I love showing people Truth or Dare, especially younger folks that I work with the pop music and they watched Truth or Dare and they go, oh, so she invented like this whole thing everything and like with lots of

inspiration from the queer community. But yes, she was the first one to fully be inspired by the queer community a hundred because now all the girls are only inspired by the queer community or black Obviously, long conversation have very serious, but Madonna was the first to really blow my mind and go, Okay, this is my life now.

And even with Vogue at the v M AS like, you still had your girl Camilla cabe O do like memory, which I believe was I believe it was probably a yeah, but it's well, but it's still like, oh, but these these are timeless things to reference, and there's there's no like because there is a world where someone a girl now does the thing that Madonna did, like an aesthetic bars from a Madonna aesthetic from thirty years ago, and

it can be received. It's like, oh, that's like actually not cool anymore and that looks stupid and bad, like why would you ever wear that kind of hoop skirt or whatever? And like but now it's like, oh wait, like these are all things that can be transplanted to any era or any you know, pop culture in in like the modern era, like time. You know, it's that that's like the power of Madonna. That's the power Madonna, and that that that moment, I can see it clear

as day. It was like the TV upstairs in my house I grew up in, and I just remember watching that performance and being like, nothing will ever be the same for the world end for me. It's all And also too, because there was so many she had so many very obviously fem queer men on stage serving kissing, like not not hiding their femininity at all, and that was like, okay, so it might have to be a bathup answer. But I can still get on stage like

that was like a big, big moment. That's so interesting. Yeah, like to register yourself in it completely did completely. What's um, what's your favorite Madonna album? I was gonna say era. I was gonna yeah, both answer both questions. Yeah, I mean the as an album as a whole, I would say Ray of Light. Okay, good answer, that's that. That's

the smart answer. That's the smart answer. But music ned answer the Yeah, but as like as not an album as an era, it's weird because they overlapped the like a Prayer slash Dick Tracy era because bog which many people forget Dick Tracy soundtrack, which makes no very This old timey cartoon movie has this song about like how gay men dance, how specifically black gay men dance in New York in the eighties. How are these? How does

that work? But that happened, so it's kind of the overlap of the like a Prayer, which really you can just call the Blonde Ambition era. The Blond Ambition era as an era is for sure my favorite by far, but as an album there are more because a lot of them early Madonna albums if it wasn't a single, they some of the songs were pretty hard to listen to.

Don't Kill Me, Please, Don't Kill Me I worship, But well, they have bigger fish to fry right now, and they can they can go they can go deal with they can come get their girl. Actually, but I'm wanting to block out the fact that she's like hawking Donald Trump's um medication or whatever the fun You're not medication Donald Trump's poison. I'm trying to hydro crocsicuin. Everyone's got to get a bottle of Hydroclora cloxicin. Yeah, I'm trying to block that up right now. We we Well, I just

gave you my defining moment of culture. And you know what, people can be more than one thing. They can be. They can be the defining moment of culture for a lot of Americans and people worldwide and also be hawking hydro clock as a as a COVID medication, which I have to say is hashtag not uh nothing, not really nothing. Yeah, did I answer that question correctly? Yes? You did. I was I was nervous. I'm not gonna lie to know. Also, you've got Sharon Stone and went Stefani and they're contributing.

It really clears things up for the girls. Okay, share Stone and Madonna sort of line up very well. I think they tell like their compliments to the same story. They are the story. But it's it's the justin Trantra store. Well, it's it's that hyper femininity with extreme strength and possible violence. You know. Yes, yes, again, I am not. It's a last way from a tear, last way from a tier tier but I was. I am not. Violence never have been, which even though in some instance I probably should have

been to protect myself more. But yes, yes, there's something about that Sharon Stone, all those characters that she played so well, where she's so beautiful and so strong and might kill you. Really I needed that feminine strength to get me through fucking junior high. You know, I totally get that this is but this is the thing that I was that we were talking about with selling Sunset, Matt.

It's like the Christine Quinn's, the Regina Georgias. These are women who are who could kill you, who could murder you. I love the full of this, I do, and I need to be put on my toes by some of my pop culture obsessions. I need. I need to be danger yet. Yeah, I need the threat of death urgency.

You know, if it's not just at least be super urgent, if you're not going to kill us, at least make us feel like what you're saying has this extreme sense of urgency, and be actively engaged with what's happening, you know what I mean? Like, I love it. I love the eye of the tiger in it. I For me, it's like if I ever, if I ever am not into someone, it's probably because they're aesthetic or their image or their energy is passive, you know what I mean?

Like I love energy. Yep, I agree. It's like whether I was obsessed with Courtney Love or Little Kim or Madonna or Gwen. None of them were making music that was anywhere close to each other, but there was this urgency in Sharence Don't even though she wasn't making music. Even I've tried, I definitely have tried to teach out to people. What if she wants a song we don't, she could, Yeah, you don't know, that would be huge,

it would be it would be a colossal global hit. Um. Well, okay, so now we have come to the moment that is I don't think so honey, which I know we've been doing a lot of I think so honeys with our guests, because I mean, just that has contributed it all capital I capital A. But now we're actually gonna turn away from positivity and towards what I will will be calling on the show negative catharsis um, and we are going to do I don't think so honey sixty seconds to

rail against something in pop culture that we don't think so about. Um. So uh bow and I could go first, I think I okay, that's good. UM, I will put you first. This is the traditional order. This is Matt Rodgers. Would you like to say something before? I would like to say one thing, which is the almost my I don't think so honey, was necklaces that have your name on it. Um. But I've decided that I will not do that today. Okay, and we have one ready to go.

Let's just say, let's just say if if I feel a certain kind of way about it on another episode. I am launching into that one because I I don't know if I think so honey about these necklaces that say Mary or the necklaces that say your name but but it's not today's right. I have to be a little bit more oppression than topical. That's right. Okay, So this is Matt Rodgers is I don't think so, honey.

His time starts now. I don't think so, honey. The Republican National Convention, what is happening right now as we speak, and if you are listening to it, watching it, responding to it, reacting to it, posting about it, stop, I don't think so, honey, because you know what, that's what they want. They're gonna say a lot of crazy fucking ship this week, and we're recording this on Monday, which means it's begun, and they're probably up there right now

saying some crazy fucking shit. Don't buy into it. Stay focused on one thing, and one thing only, which is getting him the fuck out. We already have so many concerns right now that we need to be focused on that. They are going to be talking about other things tonight, tomorrow, the next day, whatever, to distract us. That's what they do.

It's his playbook. I don't think so, honey. If you haven't realized by now that what Trump does is create public circuses to distract you from the real issues, which are the fact that the postal service is still under attack all the time, and you know what they they headlines will try to confuse you and making sure it's all okay, we need to be worried about voter suppression, stay focused. I don't think it's any of the r n C and the chaos around it. And that's one minute,

thank you. This is what this is. This is how I feel, which is we're better off not watching it. And also what I think is very intentional is that the scheduling is crazy because we're recording this Monday, so it hasn't even I wasn't even sure like when things would start, but like I I got notifications throughout the day in the afternoon today where they were like okay, they officially renominated Trump and which was like, okay, yeah,

that that's like procedurally what happens. But then like Trump already gave an address I think in the afternoon. But then he's speaking every night. I know he's speaking every day, but like at like two pm or three pm, he like spoke in the afternoon, and like the program I'm saying, the programming and the scheduling is also I think intentionally chaotic, so that so that no one really knows what to focus on or were it not to focus on, even so that it's like you're being pulled into this no

matter what, even if it's against true will. So yes, I mean, like try to tune it out as much as possible. Uh, don't fall for the distraction, even though that's gonna be difficult. I mean, we're gonna inevitably be talking about this throughout the week, in the month um before the debates, but like it's it's and I will say, you know, right now, we literally are talking about it

because it's happening. And I did make comments last week about the d n C, and what I would like to say is that we recorded that on Monday, and by the end of the week, I actually want to give some at it to the people that put together and pulled off a virtual d n C, because while I don't agree with, in fact strongly disagree with some of the people that they had speak, I will say that at the end of the week I actually felt hopeful about Joe Biden presidency instead of just denying Trump

and wanted to get Trump out of there. I think that it is um really really important that we see someone who not only is empathetic and not only really cares, but someone who, and this is really important, de centers themselves in the narrative. Notice how Trump has an inability and incapability when it comes to taking himself out of it. It's always about him, It's always about what he's feeling, thinking,

who's wronging him. He is unable to de center himself, whereas Biden will often make things about his son, his wife, his vice presidential nominee, his UM party, his American people.

Understand that's really important. And for someone that is a white cis man who's in politics, who's probably been cultured to believe that the world kind of revolves around him, He's run for presidents several times, it's incredibly difficult for someone UM that's running for president to consistently decenter themselves in the narrative. And I'm not I'm not just heaping

praise at Biden's feed. I'm saying I am impressed that we have a real UM effort here to make this about the American people, and there's a real contrast between these two candidates. I don't think I'm speaking to anyone that's on the fence. But if I am, I hope that's something that you notice because it's growth and it's important, and he seems interested in us, which is not an interest of the presidents. I think it was of an

effective messaging moment for for the party. I fucking hate that they had Bloomberg up there cracking his bogoo jokes and they had I totally agree, they had like a virulently anti Muslim Yep, there was not there was not enough Muslim presence. There was, there was, there was, there wasn't, there was didn't. They could have had Rashida, they could have had Alan. They chose that was I think that was a choice not to end to instead open up big tent bullshit and be like let's have case it

come and like it's that was the thing. That sort of being the wrong way, and it only really worked as a harmonious sort of unified party message because you had progressives like AOC like Bernie sort of falling in line as it were to be like, yes, we were throwing our support behind Biden, even though there was that dumb AOC dust up with the numb with the sex with the second nomination thing um NBC News still owes an apology for tweeting out that she quote unquote did

not endorse our support Biden that night. She was actually doing what procedure is, and she was seconding the nomination for Bernie because he earned enough delegates. So under they they and here's the real truth, and you know whatever, I'll just say this. NBC News willingly um posted that knowing how this ship works. So we have to understand that. You know, I understand that a lot of people stand MSNBC. We got a lot of people out of here who

really appreciate Rachel Maddow and stuff like that. But this is a real problem. And I don't want to be out here on this podcast being like, don't trust the news. But they made a serious, serious, intentional decision there to confuse people about what AOC was doing. And it really is hard to convince me that the mainstream media doesn't want a story, which is the Democratic Party is in shambles going forward, because you know what, it's a narrative

and they're thriving off the narrative. And it's not a fucking joke to real people in this country who need Trump to not be president. So I'm really disappointed in that, and that, honestly is let's just call that another I don't think so, honey, because because that was really really

really frustrating and upsetting. It's tough too, because you know, I am fortunate to do a lot of fundraising and activism for certain groups, and it is always a tough decision, right, Like so with the d n C, they were very clearly trying to appeal to the white voters, that straight white voters who are maybe undecided, right, And it's hard to know. I think AOC even posted something about story that she understood what they were doing and she respects it.

She one percent mentioned that there was no Muslims and all this stuff that of course, if she was in charge, it would have been done much differently. But it's hard to know, Like sometimes right in certain fundraising things like but do we need a straight celebrity here to help us raise funds for l g B t Q causes? But then sometimes you do because you you need that exposure and you need that money raised. And so these are very tough conversations. And I am as progressive as

as they come. Um, But I will say that just because in certain organizations in certain places, I am behind the scenes in these conversations, and they are hard conversations because if I had it my way at certain events, it would only be up and coming l g B t Q artists who need all the exposure and all the love and all that support. But then we might if we don't pair it with straight fucking ciss famous people who can really broadcast the message and amplify the message.

Are are those young queer people even gonna be heard? Is the money going to be raised? It is a really really tough thing. And so like, of course I wish the d n C E it's the d n C, that's the band Jesus Christ. Of course, the I wish the d n C was handled in a much more progressive like scene, through a much more progressive lens. But on the other and I do understand that they're trying to get people's votes who haven't decided yet. UM not

saying that I would have made the same choice. I'm just trying to, like always look at the I think we're all on the same page about this, I think, and I think you mentioned AOC's response, which was I thought a perfect response, which was no, I wouldn't have done it this way, but but props and kudos to

the people that did pull it off. And also, you know, there is something to be said about the fact that we were not the intended audience for it, whether or not that is the right decision about how to program it this year. UM, could there have been a little bit more outreached to the progressive um block of this party, which is very real and very important to be heard,

and we consider ourselves all a part of that. You know, that is a question mark that I have, But I thought overall there was a lot of positive stuff to be said. And it's also tough two because the super a lot all this is a a lot of super young progressive people are not registered to vote, and they're they're gonna tweet and they're gonna get piste, but they're not registering. So on one way it should should they have made the convention geared towards getting those fucking kids

to register? Or are they going to gear it towards the people who are already registered because they're sixty years old and they're on the fence. Like, I don't have the right answer for that. It's it's hard to know I mean electoral politics are a nightmare. I mean there's a reason why it so difficult to navigate. Why there are these like superstructures above the whole like thing of voting that like make it hard for people to vote, or make it inaccessible or all these different things. So um,

and we need to be worried about voter suppression. Like yes, yes, um, I loved um. I loved the roll call And that was fun. It was great. There was there was so much great about it, and I thought, I did think that Joe Biden's final speech, it was a fantastic beach and it was something that I don't think a lot of people realize they needed, but you know, the American people needed to hear condolences on the unacceptable, disgusting loss of life that we have had over these past six months.

I mean, it's just it's heinous and it's it's it's been said at nausea. But it did not have to be this way. And um, you know, there is something to be said about human decency and there's certainly a lot to be said about our fucking democracy. So if you are not registered to vote and you're listening to this podcast, girl, you gotta get registered to vote, UM, and we need to make this happen. And UM, let's be really clear about the fact that you know, especially

in those swing states and red states, we need you. Okay, so get out there and let's let's get this done. And we're gonna be talking a lot about this in the coming months. You know, last coach is going to be UM having some people on who on a local level are going to be running for important offices. Are

super excited about that. And in fact, next week, UM not running for office, but UM, we are having Gabrielle Arcasio Cortez, who is the brother of Alexandriacazio Cortez, and we are having him on the show and we're very excited to talk to him about all things. Who he nominated a f C through for brand new Congress so that she UM would eventually run for Okay, UM, I have I have something. It'll be time now for Bowen Yang's I don't think so, honey, UM, that is what

happens after I go. Bowen goes and he does always a stunning job. And this is going to be smart, it's gonna be incisive, it's going to be important, it will be humorous and it will ultimately teach everyone a lesson. So we're I'm so excited and honored to now introduce Bowen Yang. Who's I don't think so, honey. Time starts now, I don't think so, honey. Velvet couches. Dare you try

and create static electricity in my house? How dare you catch the lint off of my ass and sit there and look dusty as hell when you literally just came to my house. Let me just say, let me just warn do a little consumer warning PSD for everybody. If you warner a couch hashtag, if you order a couch off of joy bird dot com, they have a wonderfuirty section, but if you select the Cobalt blue couch, it will not tell you that it is velvet. I thought I

was getting a canvas, motherfucking couch. They unboxed it and oh, it's a velvet, motherfucking couch. It only only works if I am stoned off my ass. I was like the texture of it against my skin. Otherwise, I feel like I'm in the eighties. I feel like I'm in Dynasty. I don't know it's going on. It takes me a second to adjust to the fact that it's velvet. I don't think so, honey, velvet couch and that's that's one minute. Um wow, I have to say I like your couch.

I think that it No, no, no, no, no, no, it's a it's a new one. I got a new one this weekend. So you mean this new one that you don't like has replaced the old one that you didn't like. Fu your life. I mean it's the this the area is great, it's comfortable to be It's more comfortable than than the last one. But I'm never going to find the right couch. I mean you can. You can do a whole reality show on this. Bowen is

trying to find the right counch. Honestly, that might sell and I know it would make me sick just the right that's that's a good couch. I'm really glad I'm seeing here because in the couch and like my TV area, it's definitely like purple velvet. So I my apologies to you, but I'm glad you didn't have to see it this whole two hours because that would have just been But do you like it? Me? Yeah? Do you like? Oh? I love my velvet couch. I think it's amazing, it's comfy.

She's like, you know, it's you know, it's just because everything this is this either I'm you know, she's a vegan queen, so I had I wanted to get like all the couches are vegan and blah blah. So velvet is kind of one of the best options for a vegan couch, and it's just really really co syme. It's it's a matter of personal taste, which leads me to ask, justin what is your favorite what kind of chair do you need to be in to work the best? You have?

You figured this out for yourself. Yet I just like the corner of a couch to write in, like the couch, and then I can turn, you know, like with my legs up of course, like a like a teen queen, and like turn and like face the artists that I'm writing with, and like kind of in the in the corner so you can face the whole room. I can turn to the producer who's in front of me, I can turn to the side to the artists. We can get really intimate and there are queen. Yeah, she's looking,

I'm looking. Yes, I'm looking. I'm looking my whole life away. That's that's my fantastic Okay, I think it's time for Justin. I think it's just I don't think so, honey. Okay, so before we start, just like you, mat, I had one that I was gonna do, but then I changed it so that what I was gonna do is YouTube eyebrows. YouTube eyebrows, you know, the Kardashian like the overbrow, the YouTube makeup brow. It's got to stop. It's um it's alarming,

it's offensive. Uh, it's it's not flattering on any anyone. Um. So that's just the little one. Well, we can say happily that it's now on Nottice and it didn't get I don't think so, honey today, but it is it is. Yeah, if it's still there in a couple of months, I'm gonna just crash your show again just to talk about brows, please, and then we can talk about the nine thousand other

songs that we didn't even get to today. We can truly talk to you forever, um, but for now we're about to hear uh the I don't think so honey of Justin Tranter. And let me tell you there was some contest about which one was going to be, and you heard what almost was, and now you're gonna hear what it is. So this is justin Tranter's I don't think so, honey, other time starts, and now I don't think so honey. You better find some mother fucking positivity.

I am elizabethan right. I wanted Elizabeth Moore and all the fucking way I didn't get her. And you know what, I am finding the positives, and Joe Biden, I am the positive Harris. I am one board, and I am fucking excited because even though it's not as progressive as we want, I am still positive because it's literally the most fucking progressive platforms major nominee has ever run on.

So if you can't get positive about this platform, bitch, we'll have fun with Trump ruining your lives, taking your friends jobs away, literally killing us all with COVID. So I don't think so, honey. Until the election happens, I don't think so with your negativity, find some mother fucking positivity and shine and because I'm going to vote with the biggest fucking smile on my face that I have ever had. And that's one minute. And you know what, I'm really happy that you said that, because I want

to say something about Kamala Harris. Kamala Harris is the most progressive person that has ever been on a Democratic ticket ever. And that is not just which which is also not to say that she was the most progressive option, but it does. It is meaningful that she is very that she is the most progressive person. To make it to that, and let's make it clear that I was definitely not saying that. I know that she was far from the most progressive person that was in the primaries.

I am a Bernie Sanders voter. I am a someone who gave a lot of money to Elizabeth Warren. I'm probably very similar to the people in this zoom where we find ourselves. But here's the thing, and this is something I've been thinking a lot about. This whole thing about Kamala is a cop, sure, but I want to say something about the way that she's being talked about

and depicted. Holding a woman of color responsible more responsible for a white supremacist system is in and of itself racist, and I want everyone to really kind of fucking slow their role about you know, fuck Kamala, Fuck Kamala, because you know what, how dare you for these last four or five months talk about how we have to understand the perspective of black women and we have to, you know, understand that the black experience is so different, and then

say fuck her when all of a sudden she realizes the American dream of so many millions of Black women and Asian women in this country. And I just think that, you know what, you're all entitled to your opinion. Is she as progressive as we need her to be? Maybe not yet, But I am really discouraged and disappointed about take on Kamala Harris from a lot of progressive friends of mine. And yes, you are all pretty much white. And you know what, this is a different conversation for

people of color that want to have this conversation. But the shifting on of Kamala Harris from fucking white progressive people and the total disregard for her perspective and her lived experience as a black woman who has gotten to where she is in an unprecedented way, shame on you, and I will say that, and you're you're you're exhibiting racist behavior. She um. She did this interview with us. It was with an activist UM back in November when she was still campaigning UM October maybe uh, And it

was this. It was this activist who UM was basically trying to to abolish policing and UM as as as we know, and I think I think he even sort of brought up this thing of like, how do you square your candidacy as a black woman with UM, you know, your record and all this stuff, And she goes, well, I just want to talk. Oh no, no it was it wasn't even that. It was just about like representation, about like what it means for her to run and

for her to be this contender UM. And she brought up this really interesting thing that I haven't forgotten where she was like, think about what I like to think about what you picture when I say these, for words, the boy next door, Like you have an immediate image of who that is, what they look like, where they live, all of this stuff that informs that image that's not even that specific, but you have the specifics kind of

like programmed in you. And she's basically saying that, like and this this was answering again like a representation question, but it got me thinking about how she was like I am running this, I'm doing this thing that no one's ever really seen play out before in a way. And she she wasn't saying that in this sort of like you know, um um um, finger wagging way or anything.

She was just saying, like, I'm figuring this out in the way that collectively we are all trying to imagine what a female candidate for president can be should be. How she's able to reckon with her past record with um, you know, her policy decisions. And then she like very gracefully talked about um, you know, the cars rolls stayed

after that. It's like she's she's not like stuck in that mode of you know, district attorney, like the super cop who is like out there like prosecuting all these people. It's like she's developing in the way that you would even say Joe Biden developed where let's not forget he was the one who sort of broke rank and said same sex marriage should be legal, and then that forced Obama's hand, and then you had a couple of years later,

a few years later, same sex marriage be legalized. It's like, these things are incremental, and yes, this is the most progressive ticket, and it's not as progressive as it could have been or maybe even should be. But it's like it's an incremental change that can still be ledgered against all of this other stuff that's going on. So that that that that's been helpful for me. Well, I think too.

It's it's it's incremental in comparison what we want when you when you put it up against what we're going to get if we don't all get kindness excited, we have to be excited, because I think we should be excited. It's the most progressive thing we've ever seen. It's not what we want, but it could. It's it's the most

we've ever gotten. Like, and if we don't get this, if we don't all get fucking excited and rally behind it, then we're you know, we it's the you know, Trump's has over a hundred and sixty attacks on the lgbtwo Q community and it's not going to stop and let alone the racism, let alone the death, let alone all this stuff. So I feel like, yes, we want better, the sheer incompetence, sheer incompetence. Yeah, it's like we just I'm just I'm excited and I can't wait. Yeah, vote vote,

like I've never voted before, but I love this. I love this positivity frame around it. That's perfect, It's wonderful. And you you bring this to everybody with your with your work and a justin tran where we thank you so much for coming. What a fun time, so fun, Thank you guys so much, so wonderful. What a living legend like Brittany, same all legends right here, too good. I mean, let me just say one thing, and that

is this. We always and every episode with a song, we always go intolinline and that's It's actually all I'm gonna do because I'm not going to insult our guests. But to hear that song listen to Selena Gomez. I think it sounded great. And I've heard I've seen videos of you doing your Christmas show where you sing your ass off. I know, I know. And baby also too, you know all those backing vocals, the big choir in Lizzie to Love Me, that's me and Julia doing it.

There we go and to hear more of that, you guys, listen the album rare As. The song is Lucy to Love Me. This is Kazy kaz alright, Bye bye