"Oprah, as in Winfrey" (w/ Phoebe Robinson)

dot com. And if you love them what you're hearing and you're a fan of Lost Cultures, don't forget to subscribe on iTunes. Give us a five star rating and leave a going review. Yes, God, my grandma and your grandma was sitting back the fun my grandma to your grandma. I'm gonna say funny. It's a glad go on date, jagamo on ding Dong l calling is it a night arism a night, It's a night, honey zaza zoo. I feel it in the air sets in the city. Reference you've been saying as of late, I mean I've been

watching sex in the city again. Sorry, okay, okay, please honestly here to call out carry on her bullshit? Oh my god, other things. It's our amazing guest. Can we list the credit? The credit honey? Oh my god, I mean where the York Times best selling author and you best selling author of You Can't Touch My Hair and other things. I stopped to explain. We're riding on the last season of Portlandia. If you enjoy cutting edge, amazing

sketch comedy by the pros, come through. And if you enjoy amazing podcast on w and I see tute queens, so many white guys, you guys podcast, Queen podcast Queen, and she's on I Love Dicks. We are grace, We are graced with the president of a Femie Robinson. Thank you. So we are hearing those credits, I'm like, oh, I have done something. Yes, that's the thing. We got to make the guests feel good, and you know they didn't even know they made themselves feel work all I'm gonna workaholic?

Is this? Is this the most like inane, boring thing at this point for people to just say at you, you work so much? No, because I always think I don't work enough. I'm always like, oh I'm not you know, people are making deals left and around, like I need to be doing more. So it's I need to just relax. That's what I need. So are you waking up early every morning? Well? Yes, so I try and get up around seven. I can go to the gym in the morning. Equinox.

I joined Equinox. Gotta get that eucalyptus. Yes, okay, I never I used to roll my eyes at Equinox, but it is. It's very goop, but it's also great. It's so goop. There's a lot of things about that are great. Yeah. Sure, is this an l A Developments to New York? I started? Okay, So last year I have my book tour and I was shooting I Love Dick, and I was just like stress eating because it was like a lot of traveling

and I was like not having sex. It's just like carbs, and it's like carbs aren't not penises, but emotionally a lot of people out there that are thinking cars penises. A girl, listen up, listen up. And so I was just like, I don't like that I'm eating all the time and just sitting and being stressed out and like everyone was just like, you should relax. Like a lot of people are like, you're very tense, and I was like, oh, but they were right. I am a very tense person.

So I was like, let me join the gym. So I joined in New York. I have the destination, which means I can go to any of them and I love it. So when you're in the gym, what are you doing? You a runner? No, I do snatch and I do spin class. Okay, yeah, okay, y'all. I'm trying to get matt on soul cycle because I am I'm officially in that cult. I get it. Class is great. And now you know what I'm down for is I'm down for that emotional release that apparently comes after soul

cycle and spin. But I am not down for the energy of This is your soul and it's about the energy of the energy that when you're in the moment and you're doing you're climbing up that hill. Okay, you're gonna want to hear that motivation because you're gonna want to bail. And they're like you, you like traveled on the train to get here, this is your life. Take control, and it's like, yeah, you guys, I have to shout out. I have to shout out this iconic, iconique soul cycle

instructor in New York. So my friend Meet and I signed up for a Gog versus Beyonce class at the one in Nomad and it was gonna be with this instructor, Taylor, who is apparently very popular. We get an mail the morning of saying that he dropped out that we're getting a sub named Claire into where Claire comes in with this pixie cut, just this gorgeous specimen, and she gagged me and Metra for filth because exactly during the climb, when we felt like we were going to die, Claire

just goes. And I told you this, I think, But she goes, and this is for everyone to hear except and taken. She goes. You know what, no one said this was going to be easy. But easy doesn't put a roof over your head. Easy doesn't put food on the table. Easy does not help you move forward with your life. So no, I know it's not easy, but who cares about easy? Now turn the dial up and it was the most glorious moment in the world. There's a global effect and the endorsed the endorphins forcing through

your veins, like you feel like golden goddess. Like you have a couple of people here, a couple of male and you're here who do spin class And I really like this. Well back in the day, I was a big cross country runner. When I have the build for it, have physique of someone that used to run, whose metabolism

is like, come on, come on, please use me. Well, the thing is like it's just getting a little like I know what it's like under the hood, and it's getting a little bit less tight, you know what I mean. Like now it's starting to like a little bit called super super so that's the way we say it. But but anyway, yes, I would love to get back get back into it. I would love to find something that really works, because lifting weights doesn't. Yeah, I'm Mike over it.

I'm like, who cares. But it's like not good because like your muscles are like going to atrophy the older you get. But I'm like it's boring. Yeah, Also it is hard. I know for some people they just prefer to lift weights and they think that cardio is just the hard one. For me, the cardio is the easy one. It almost feels like I didn't like I'm cheating when I'm doing it just as easier. But I don't know. I'm just on that precipice of pulling the trigger on

the equinox because it's just it's worth it. It's life changing. You're going to start. I started shopping at Lulu women, I know, and you have to just get into. It's a whole culture. Seen. Everyone there is good looking. You're like, that's what I'm like in three months. That's why I'm like in six months, it's great. Honestly attainable. Though it is attainable. I mean there's some people who are like, WHOA, all right, but there's a reason why all this popular

stuff is popular. Yeah, totally. And we just boke before we got on air about how Starbucks doesn't mess around guys. Phoebe brought us these cake pops and these are delicious. Oh my god, Phoebe, thank you so much. Yeah, of course, the perspected the art of cake pops. Yeah, they're really good. Anyway. The only thing they don't nail in Starbucks is the

kind of music that they sell. Yeah, it's like Cheryl Crowe, You're like, what, I love her to death, but like I'm not probased like the Kelly Clarkson Christmas album in there, you know what I mean, Like Wrapped in Red is on the shelf. You are the target demo for exactly, but you do what they're doing. But you're saying that's not that's not the right move. Well, I mean it's not cool. Sure, you know what I like? Yeah, you

know it doesn't have to be cool, Phoebe. We're going to ask you what we ask all of our guests, which is what is the culture? That means you say culture is for me? Yes, this is basically young Phoebe was like, wow, I'm experiencing this in the cultural lexicon, whether it's movies, television, music, whatever. Are also like something in your life, something that happened that really influenced you as a Phoebe? Oh my gosh, well so many things. I'm such a like pop culture head. I guess number one.

I'm gonna list a few things. So Number one is my favorite band of all time? You two, I know it's well documented. There's a paper trail, I mean in the book, like you literally number by number talk about each member and how like fucking Adam Clayton dated Naomi Campbell and oh my god, did your research. I mean, but you went into it, so you too, Yeah, you too. They just are very never would honestly you too. I

never got into them. That's fine them, Okay. I just I like how like big their their music is very like anthemic and it's very like hopeful, and I like their message and like I'm not a religious person, but they're religious, so their music is kind of like has spiritual elements to that I really identify with. And I don't know, I just think like sometimes when you're like twelve or thirteen, like if something just hits you at that age, Yeah, exactly. Um. I just love them so much.

I love their philanthropic work. Like to me, I'm like the two people I want to be like our Oprah and Botto whatever they like. Whatever Oprah does, literally, I'm like, I'm doing that your hands down. They have YouTube has one song. Um oh sometimes you can't make it. Oh I love that. Okay, Okay, we have a little bit of that was so good. That was like really good. I mean it, but you guys could do it and it would be fine. He would hear me and he

wouldn't be mad. Sure. Yeah, Um, so YouTube number one, yes, number two. Felicity okay, one of the greatest TV shows of all time? Yeah, have you seen it? Well, I was going to say, I'm not. This is something where we have to we have to go back and do our research because I do know the cultural impact of Felicity. How old you, guys, I'm thirty two. Stop, so it's pre you yeah, yeah, just pretty okay. Yeah, So I was fourteen when it came out on the w B. That's how long ago was it on the w B?

Dumbass like singing frog and obviously it was that stupid frog like what is this um? And obviously I was a virgin at the time, you know, listening to you too and just being like yeah bono um, not losing

it real quick. And so Felicity okay. So the back story is Felicity is from Palo Alto and she's graduating high school and this guy Ben, it's like bit her crush, and so she's like, oh, you signed my yearbook and he's like sure, and he like takes it and goes and sits down like on a grassy knoll and like rights, it's like really long message and he gives it back

to her. She was like, what's going on? And she reads and it was just like really sweet, like you still always see you around and wonder like what you were thinking and who you were like, and I just never had like I just never thought to like say

anything to you. But you're like really interesting. So she decides, you know, I'm gonna major at what is it's not n y U because they couldn't get the license for that University of New York, Yeah, College of New York l L. And so she besides, she's going, Hey, what school are you going to in the fall? And he says at school. She's like, He's like, what about you? And she's like, I haven't made up my mind yet.

And then she decides to not go to school in Cali and go to the same college and he's going to girl probably doesn't age well does not. It's not feminist, it's not sane, but it's Carrie Russell. She has curly hair. You're like, I'm into it. I get it. And then it just becomes like this great love triangle between her Ben and nol. He's played by Scott Foley, Yeah, and Ben Scott Speedman, and his thing is he like a whispers always like and I'm like, bitch, speak up, I

can't deal with you. But like he's always like whispery and like just like cute and hot and like nol is an r a, he's by the book. Okay, So here we are. Yes, yes, so it's like who is Felicity going to choose so much? Yeah, and Power Rangers in it Amy Joe Johnson. Yeah, she plays like Felicity's friend. There's a lot's famous as of laid for her cameo in the Power Rangers movie. She was in the Power Rangers. Kimberly Pink Power Ranger and Tommy Green Ranger are in

the last last last moments of the movie. They just literally non speaking cameo for two seconds. They just look up at like the destruction and they're like it's it is a blink and you miss that. They couldn't even give them a lot. Oh my god, that's amazing, but they get a day rate or something and they were tech a veil the year. Okay, So I have a question. Yea,

the show actually die when she cut her hair. Okay, so everyone, okay, So backstory is between season one is season two, her character cut her hair I don't want to spoil anything, but her character cuts her hair for a particular reason, right, and so boys and so um, So what happened is Felicity switched time slots between season one is season two. They went to like a shittier time slot. And everyone's like, oh, it's because Felicity her hair, and I was like, no, it's because w B was

like in shambles. I didn't know what they were doing, and like a lot of like kind of teeny sort of college stuff kind of like got screwed up. Not not a correlation. So it's like the basic thing to say is she cut her hair, and then right, all right, yeah season one, I mean it's like the best. It's really really good. Like she went in Golden Globe. Yeah. I think she got nominate for an Emmy too, maybe or maybe I'm wrong. She was incredible in it, and

she continues to be incredible on the Americans. So I hear again, don't watch this one. It's really good, is it? Okay? I hear it's one of those ones that gets better. It's really good. I feel like she's one of those people for me at least, who I'm just like never like clocked her always like new knew about her and knew that she was great, but haven't had the firsthand experience. Yeah, I'm trying to think what I've seen her in and think like I thought, like, yes, waitress, she was waitress.

Yeah she was good in that, but like, for some reason, I just don't remember that movie. Yeah, it's one of she's one of those actresses that you know is out there doing good work. But you you were, and you know who that was for me for a long time, clear Danes, I get that. Yeah, it's like a kind of like general they have a face, you know, you're like, all right, cool. We know she was in the Romeo and Juliette movie. Did we put ourselves through it? As

another question? It was so bad? Yeah, it was terrible, but now it's gagara. But people will say that Romeo and Juliet is Boss's best movie. Those people, Yeah, that's insane. This is just like now like a litmus test for everybody on her podcast. What are your thoughts one? If you have any, it's okay, it's okay. I was like, I was like, Nicole, what are you doing? She was so extra wow? But but you didn't think that it matched what was going on. I thought she was so

extra in the best way. It was like I was like, boss, I can't with you. I've tried so many times and so like everything is just like a d and percent, which I'm like, I appreciate the effort, but like it's just like in your face and your face and your face. And I was like, you McGregor, I'm like, can you just get a job, Like you're like in your house all the time writing these Yeah, and it's like you're hot, Like can like do something Parisian model. Yeah, I'm just

realizing now how manic Pixie dream Girl that movie. Yeah, she's like when everyone someone whenever someone coughs in a movie and they're like, yeah, it's like I can't. She was weakly up that right, just like as when the point of the movie is to be that like a blown out romantic sized thing, like I let it happen. Sure, and now we forgive Nicole. But here I will say this. I was never into Nicole big little lies And I was like, Okay, give her the Emmy, give her the Oscar.

It's not a movie, but give it to her. Give her a Webby, whatever you got, whatever, you need to give her a paper plate Awards. If Nicole doesn't, Nicolet doesn't walk away with a fucking webby this year, then the industry is we talk about this a lot, and we can continue to talk about this, and it will be the Emmys for some time. But I always say, if I had a ballot in my hand, I'm checking

Reese with this, Okay, Matts. Matt's defense is that, Okay, I need to hear this, because that is that's controversial. First of all, for sure, I would say that here's the deal. We fell in love with big Little Lies because of because of her limping. In the first episode, she could get she could at my firstborn for that, Yeah, that was really good for that. Also, all the line readings throughout, like you, if you can sell a one liner,

you are my god. So for example, my biggest comedic influence Eva Longoria, because the woman could kill you with a comedic one line. Now, to be serious for a second, the work that she did throughout the show I felt was more versatile. But I'm not saying that if Nicole won the Emmy, I would I've said on this podcast, I would lead to my feet. You know, I thought

about this. The more think about this, the more I feel like Nicole, with that role and with that character and with that arc, probably had to really put herself in a shitty It was dangerous. Yeah, have you read the book. I have not, but I heard it's great. I was just telling Bowen the abuse in the book

towards the end. I'm actually happy that they didn't depict it on television because what happens in the book is the last straw for her is he takes her head and slams it against a wall and it is so painful and I think I was in the airport reading it and I literally had to put it down because

I was gasping. And so then you watch the show and it's just like, can you like to embody like and this is of course it happens all the time, like and which is tragic and devastating, but like she put herself in that place, and like, really, I'm so happy the show is out there because people can I guess maybe more people will start talking about this and just like really starting to like empathize with what goes on out there in the world because it was thick

and I'm happy it went I'm like really happy. We got to see like what it really I guess what it feels like to be that those therapy scenes, the amount of justification, the amount of justification she was doing, It's like, Wow, this is what it's like to really fight for something that's bad for you. And also I have to give a shout out to Alexander's scar scar. I was like, he's a good actor. You see his penis and true blows, You're like cool, like love it.

But then to see him do this and provide that layer of complexity, because I think the easy way I would have been like he's just a monster, but it was like he knew he was broken and he knew he was damaged, and you could see him like be evil one minute and super loving the next minute, and then like I just really think they displayed like what abuse is really like, and I think that's important for

people to see that. And I was really impressed by what he did about That's a character I'm a fan for a like career gamble and a risk for him, yes, because not everyone out there is going to be intelligent enough to be like he's playing a part. He happens to be playing it really well. Especially when you do it so convincingly, it's like you're just gonna be scary to people, just like the way he would like walk like a predator. Sometimes it was just like so it

was like a masterclass of acting. Like the actually just went like best mini series or whatever. I just don't know what's going to be better than that this year. Also, like what amazing casting whoever put it to put it together, like to cast like to like super sexually charged actors like that, Like because when you saw the sex scenes and like in the early episodes, you almost were like, fuck, like you do have something. It was like when they were like you know, skype sex, I was like this

is cool. And then I was like, oh, but successful in that way because you cat yourself almost you catch yourself forgiving. Yeah, You're like, oh, Perry, and then you're

like nope, close up shop. Oh my god. Yeah. But I mean I just want to segue into this and I really want to just talk to you about this because I don't remember if it was on a Two Queens episode, if it was in the book, But like at length you talked about is He and Denny having ghosts and then and about how you kept watching Grays and because we were watched it well through season seven like past like the plane crash was when I was like, yeah, okay, what was like, like when did you hang your hat

with Grays? I think it was time of Death. It was Issy and George once. I think when he got killed. I was like, I'm out. I was sick when he died. Season five, yeah, at peace Out, and I was like, I love Ashonda, but I'm like life fish short, like I haven't read Moby Dick, like you know what I mean, Like I need to get it together. I just can't anymore totally. Yeah, you know, she gave up on it too, but I heard it's good again, like they went really

shitty period now supposed to be really good again. And I'm like, I can't. I can't live life like this, you know. I just I would tune back in now and I would just be sad because I don't know how you feel. But season one, two, three, that was incredible, so good, so good. It still holds up. Yeah, absolutely, yeah I did. I went home a few weeks ago to my parents and they just have this giant home theater.

Sorry sorry, sorry, But then but then I just watched the episode where Christina at Sandra's last episode, and I fully, I haven't seen that. I watched it, like there are there are certain moments that are like peppered throughout the later seasons that are like, actually, I had a lot of thought, and I'm sure Shanda, yeah, it's always going to write a good model, like you know, there's a she's always going to have a team, have someone on

the team that can turn out a good scene. It's just you know, I mean, and she better have come through for Sandro's last episode. Yeah, you can't play her. I actually came out of the woodwork and watched that one as a stand alone because I was like, I have respect for Sandro, and I know that it's fine if it's totally fine to just peak your head and

watch that episode. You still get it. It just it's I felt like this was such a big part of my life for like three years, like Graze, and I still continue to watch it all through you know, her storylines with Owen and everything. I was like, I'm going to see this character through. Yeah, happy, totally, total, totally, but I mean, yeah, Sandro emmy lest for that part. She never won. You want a golden Globe. She never won an Emmy, which I think, how is that possible?

Took one, Yeah, and then she shot on the writers the next the next year. I see there's I I was so on board when she came out so hard against Isaiah Isaiah Washington for him using the F word against her night and when she was like I will go to bad for him always like this is like a brother to me, whatever, and then hard to get on her side after like just being so disc Yeah, you can't like take like it was Gray's and the Enemy,

it was knocked Up. It's like you can't take these jobs and then trash the people who created the work for you, like appreciate like knocked Up. It's like what got her the paycheck that she got on movies going forward. So like I do agree that, like the female characters aren't as well drawn in that movie, but it's like, girl that like kind of changed your career in a lot of ways, Like it should be more appreciative. I just can't. I will say I am down for her.

Whatever attempt at a career revival, she's she's going for it. I mean it has not gone it has not gone well. But like there is like this weird like like the cat Yeah, literally commercial commercial. But then she's got that going on, and she also has that new movie with Rosario Dawson. That's true. But here's the thing, absolutely Obsessed too.

But what were you gonna say? I almost just said, like I wonder if it'll be better than Obsessed, and I was like, what am I don't think beyond sandelier on Ali Larder will never be That's pretty legend until the last fifteen minutes. Yeah, and then you're like, oh, I'm into this. You sent that last fifteen minutes the Sundance Film Festival. It was, but it went the audience large. Send it to can every grand jury. She dropped a shandelier. Yeah. Why she was married to elbow right, Yes, it was

so inferious, how like how dumb he was. It was like, Agris, I need you to get it together. But some of those some of that dialogue epically bad, Idris, where should I go? Then to tell? But until also Christine Lottie, she plays the police officer. That's right, dumbest police officer you've ever seen. Everyone go back and watch Obsessed. Christine Lottie as like the detective or whatever. Is so epically dumb, and she does and she is operating at s because

even she, in her line rings is judging herself. Yeah. Look, I don't care if you're suing this girl or not. I was just it's just like so so so bad. Speaking of like, okay, this movie is like not actually bad. It's just like low key ignorant, but like, hi key amazing. Have you guys seen the movie Unfaithful? I just rewatched it recently with a girlfriend who had never seen it, and it literally changed your life. The thing about Unfaithful,

she's giving everything. Diane Lane is like fucking killing it. But it's still yet bad. It's so bad. There's so many problems with it and how and where she got an Oscar nomination for them, which should have gotten one too, because he was like incredible. Yeah, yeah, he brought layers to that character that could have been just like all right dumpy like frumpy guy. That's a wild thing for me. Bad movies with amazing performances. Yeah, that's do you have

one of those? Oh god, I'm having that's pretty specific. Unfaithful is a really good Yeah, it's like, yeah, she's always like cooking spaghetti, like it's so bad it takes her three hours. I'm like, it's spaghetti. Did you mess up the first one? Like, my god, are you trying to like just do some cool noodles? Like grow them out? That's so funny. What's what's a bad movie with amazing performances? So girls, just kidding, But she was incredible. Yeah, she

could have gotten like a people's choice. Now I would have been fine with that for sure. I mean also you got like she know me? Malone? Is that? No? No? No, Nina was the other one, the one who's like the seasoned one. Yeah. Yeah. For some reason, this movie keeps bing bing binging in my head. It is not it is a bad movie, and it doesn't have amazing performances. But I keep wanting to say burlesque. But also that is fun to watch. It is fun Kristin Stewarts and

that she's like she is so sorry. Chris Stewarts and Christi Steuart could never have that much fun. No, I'm terrible with those names. Oh my god. Yeah I haven't seen that. Oh you should. You should watch it. It's like dumb, funky. Yeah, it's like a period movie, like even if you don't have your period, just like whatever you're feeling, Crommy, watch right. It's a good one to lay around to next time you have a Scientis affection. Oh my god, Phoebe, I want to ask you about

just to go back to Oprah for a second. I think I heard somewhere that you got a call after the book came out. Can we talk about Yeah we can't. Yeah, I have the voicemail on my after Yes. Okay, So I'll tell you this story. So when I was writing the book, I was always like we should like get it to Oprah. But I was like I was like l O L like none of us know her people. And so the book came out and then two days later, my little agent called me and he was like, so

you have to tell you something. He's like, um, so Oprah has your book and I was like what. I was like, how does she get it? I'm like, I mean, she's Oprah, she can get whatever she wants. I was like, how does she getting Like? I don't know, But her team called and said that she loves the book and she wants to talk to you, and I was like what And he's like, she's really unpredictable, so she's just

gonna like call you whenever. And I'm like, that's just like what a phone call is, but like yes, it's like that's not she's going to get on the phone ring. We don't know what's going to happen next, we don't know what she'll say, and so I was like okay, So like so beyond beyond lookout for a phone call from her. And I was like in the middle traveling, and so the next day I didn't hear from her.

My agents like I can't believe she didn't call him, Like she's literally saving Africa right now, It's totally fine. I was like, but I did miss this like phone call randomly, so I'm like random numbers. So he checked and it was her trying to reach me. So he was like, just tomorrow, just like be I'll look out for it. I was like okay, So I was. The next day, I was like in a meeting and my phone was going off and I was like, I think

this is her, but you can't interrupt a meeting. So I was just like, oh, well, um, she'll call back. I just have to take back when you just expect implicitly that Oprah will call you back, literal number one pop culture icon literally of all time show call back you know what. I am obsessed screen this one. Yes, So I told my little agent, who's like, yeah, it's definitely her, and I was like, ah, I know. And so then the next day I got a phone call,

but I was like, I couldn't tell the number. I was like, this could either be her or it could be like my stute loans because loans. So I was like, I'm just gonna risk it, not pick it up. And if I get a voicemail, fine, did you get a voicemail? And I was like, I might have sucked that up. Literally the person harder to get in touch with the

Oprah is Phoebe Robinson. And so the next day I was on set for this Amazon show him on I loved Dick, and I never bring my phone with me on a sex I want to be like present, second actor's choice to be present. And I wrapped my scene, um, and so then I saw my phone and I was like, I have a few miscalls and have a voicemail. And I was like, and I go, I'm not gonna listen

to voicemails. Probably my parents. I always use like a long voicemails so I just called back the first numbers, like an eight one eight number, and a person answers like hello, and I was like, hey, yeah, I just got a phone call from this number, but I don't know who this is. And he was like what and I was like, uh, okay, I'm gonna go by. So I like called her house. It was like her mistake, guy, what if I talked to Stemane? Yeah, not out of the question. And so I was like, that was not

a good first impression. Let me just listen to this voicemail in case it's not my parents. It was Oprah. Yeah. She was like oh no. So first before I get to that, I hang up the phone, I get a text message It's like, Phoebe, it's Oprah dot dot dot call me. And I was like, so then I listened to the voicemail and she was like, Hi, Phoebe, it's Oprah as in winfree, and I was like, oh my god, as so humble, so humble. She was just like really sweet. She was like I've been trying to get in touch

with you. But then I realized my number is blocked and you probably don't like answer block call, so I like unblocked my call. So here's this number. I'm gonna try and call you back on my cell number, which is and she's like, oh, you know what, I don't know my cell number. I'll figure that out. I know. She we you're that rich. You don't need to know that in her mission, you know, people numbers, and so she was like looking forward to talking to you soon.

So I called her back and I was just like hi, Albred's Phoebe, and she was just so sweet and complimentary. It was like I really enjoyed the book and like it spoke to me and I was just like Oprah and it was just like really nice, just like chat with her. Now, here's the knowledge that Oprah has read your innermost thoughts and like your feelings and thoughts about the world, and that is huge. It's crazy. I still can't believe it because when you're writing the book, you're

thinking that. First of all, you're probably thinking this is fun for me to write and like people will enjoy it. And then you're like, hold on, wait, that means anyone can read this, and anyone includes fucking over. Yeah. So it's just like a really like oh, it's like cool to meet your heroes because they can be really amazing

and lovely. Oh my god, I mean, I just I just want to set I mean, first of all, that's amazing, But with Oprah, it's like one day, like a few months ago, I posted her final episode and multiple people were like, I just clicked on it and just thought I was only going to watch a snippet of it. But then she just sucks you in and you just watched the whole freaking thing, which is like forty two minutes long. She's brilliant and it's the most beautiful thing,

where the entire thing is like this isn't this. This has never been about me. It's always been about you, and it's just the thing she says. So I mean, yeah, God, Oprah read your book and loved it and decided to call you an unblock her number. It's crazy that So I still have the voicemail on my That's that's like an heirloom. Now, Yeah, you passed that ship down. You shouldn't make sure you put it on different devices. Yeah, I say, I sit as an email to myself and

I uploaded to the cloud. So I'm just like, there's no way I'm going to lose there you go. Yea oh, my god, that is truly incredible, incredible, and the book is amazing, it really is. It's fun. Can we talk about one specific chapter. It's the one, it's the it's the uppitty one. This was and and let me tell you, I didn't know this and god, admit that I didn't know the full origins of that word either. And then you tie that tie the meaning of that word with

this horrible experience you had on this show. Um that is that will not be named and is strategically not named in the book, but horrible thing where like the judges like are like this hedgehot sucks, but you look great now. There were so many people, of course, and it's like what they do on reality as we talk all the time about how we have friends who go on these shows and like they literally break you down.

Was a dark day in history when the American Idol became what it was, the number one show and a little bit because I think it started not only like a um access to degrading people publicly, but also a comment and critique culture where everyone thought because they watched professional judges quote unquote professional judges do this to people that they had the experience to then do it to each other and to just people so many and and

of course you know it ruined people's lives. Have you, guys, has ever done like audition for reality TV stuff or now get this tomorrow I'm going to be on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? Now this now that when this episode, when this episode is out, you guys, this will have been weeks ago. So I did, Okay, I won five grand but um, but it was just like it's just it's it's just different than you think it's

gonna be. Like, of course you see you go onto and of course this is different than a reality show. And they didn't treat me badly, but you I got a little glimpse into what it's like to be on like a something like that. And the deck is kind of stacked because it's such an intimidating situation. And then um, you know you also kind of you do sign away certain things. I mean, obviously I don't deal with anything

as badly as like I have had. We've had a friend that's been on American Idol and it was a very hard situation. We are we um know, Zeke Smith, who was just a survivor contestant that was out at as trans. That was so upsetting to me. I was like, because I don't watch Survibor, so I was just reading the story online. I was like, how dare this other

guy do this? And he's the guy's gay, and obviously, like there's a lot of self hatred there and a lot of insecurity there, and I actually think he's the one we need to watch for it closely now because he just got fired. He got fired, and also like I think I think his family and friends need to be keeping a close eye on him because I would imagine that he is in a very dark place right now.

But but anyway, I was thinking, and I don't know if you thought this when it all happened, but you know, they had the option to not show that, and then I guess I would hope it was up to Zeke to say it's okay. I actually think this could be a healing and growing moment for you know, trans youth, you know the transgender community, and we should go ahead

with this. But I wonder if that was an option, Oh you, because they are presenting it like Zeke was involved in the decision making, but you're maybe thinking that he wasn't. I mean, at that level where there's that much money involved and really what matters to these people

is ratings and nothing else. And so you do wonder like how much how collaborative that the decision to air that wasn't how much how much say was had, And then all goes back to like just this new trend since like an op post American idole world where like

just embarrassing people for profit was like acceptable. But to go back to the book, I mean you so you tie that story in like pretty terrible experience in with like how black people and black women especially are like when when when they as certain ambition, it's just immediately struck down with starting being on the mic, it's immediately struck down with like, well, no, like you're being you're being too You're just you're reaching too high, which is ridiculous.

And then that even and I just remember this very very very clearly, because then I think you've even talked about like veiled language of people saying like well she's she's so exotic, so exotic, and like and like we deal without with like in terms of queer stuff. It's like, well that's too niche. Like we'll go into pitching rooms and and and that was a classic one. Our ideas were too niche, they're too gay. Okay, that's mine. Just say they're too gay, even though that's the shitty thing

to say. But anyway, Um, I don't know, like has that Has that gotten better? I know that's a weird question, and you had a lot of response to that, because I'm sure a lot of people read the book. I didn't know about the root of that language. Well, I think what I'm most excited about now is that there are there's more black female representation, which I think is important. You have people like Ray and MICHAELA. Cole. We're chewting gum.

I'm like, so it's really really great and fantastic and super quirky, and MICHAELA writes all the episodes herself, and so it's really like she starts in and so it's just having me. It's like voices who they're in control of their vision, and they're providing another layer of the black experiences. I think a lot of times, like you know, we just think about the black experience in terms of like black men and not really like how women black women are affected. And so I think right now it's

really cool that there's all these different perspectives. So I'm hoping that also happens with the queer community because I feel like you guys, like I love you guys, and you guys are amazing, and like you're not too gay, you're not too niche, like you should be out in the world having your own show, you know what I mean. I mean, we're out and we're just yeah, you know, it's so encouraging. Whenever there's like minority representation, I'm psyched.

I feel like it's a sports that for everyone. Like, for example, I am so psyched for Francesca and I know it's going to be a huge success and that what like that makes me feel like a part of it, you know what I mean. And you say this because you've worked with her and you know what she does. She's so everything, and like not even because I've worked with her specifically that I feel like being a part

of it. But it's just like, wow, you know they I'm so psyched that they went with someone who's going to bring something new and who's going to bring something good because and and it's it's almost so stupid that it's taken this long, because it should have been like that from the beginning, it's like why do you think um, like we don't trust or like all these voices like all blend together. It's because they're all the same. Yeah,

like people upset about you know, Falon's rating slipping. It's like, I don't think it has much to do with Falon. I think it has much. I think it has a lot to do with people just tuning out in general. Yeah. Obviously I don't have like data in front of me that shows that that's true. But I I think that we're on the precipice of seeing a lot of new cool stuff emerge, especially because everything and like the political

and international sphere is like getting so bad. Yeah, Like I was thinking the other day, someone said to me the other day, like Suti said to me, like, it's really comforting to have to be able to watch Feud because I feel like it's almost like the university gave us Feud because because because there's a Trump or like RuPaul's drag Race, which is like becoming more and more mainstream, which is like how it should be. This isn't like this like drag World isn't like oh that's weird. It's

like no, this is a commentary on culture. This is satire, this is witty, this is smart, this is funny, this is all these things. And like, you know, straight people, I love my straight people, but we are slow with a lot of stuff. It's all seeing something like that move to VH one get the highest ratings has ever gotten and armatically be renewed for another season. I'm like, oh, straight people are starting to slowly get it, Like you don't need to see yourself reflecting everything to enjoy it,

which I think it's great. So true. Well, when you're pushed to the outside of something, you're able to see it more clearly. And so I think that that's something you're going to get with all these emerging voices and these diverse voices, is it these clearer, different new takes. Yes, beautiful. So we thank you guys. On that note, we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back with

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we were literally off air. We were just talking about our favorite music as we've decided that Bowen and Phoebe both left West Side Story and I love Zanna do which is not? Which don't? Um? Phoebe. We just you mentioned RuPaul before the break? Are you watching this season? I'm watching to see in Okay, Charlie, what even was that? Well, you know, I think he came on this show just to be seen. He didn't have any attentions of going

far of winning. He just wanted the extra exposure. And I'm like, so many people kill to be on that show, and like, how dare you be? Like, I'm not gonna lip sync fuck you. I have a theory about it. I think that that's just like Charlie, that's who Tally is what, That's what all he decided to do. And I actually have a feeling that RuPaul might know Charlie from way back, and because one of my friends was like, RuPaul should have told Charlie off, like Rupp should have

come for Charlie right there. But then I was like, the thing is, though, this is like an older queen like probably there is a lot going on around in her mind about being on the show, and I surrounded by all these twenty year olds, Yeah, clearly have the leg up and like, what's Charlie gonna do a death drop? But you know what I mean? Like, so I would think it was appropriate that rud didn't like come for her,

just kind of let her go with her dignity. I would have gagged for, you know, a fifty year old queen doing a death drop to yeah hospital on some hospital food. But you know what, And I first, at first took issue with Charlie like in the confessional saying, you know what I'm I'm a singing queen. I don't

lip sync, like having the staunch like identity thing. But you know what she's she's I guess she's seasoned enough of a drag queen to like really just say like know what she can and can't do and just be like, yeah, I just don't do that. So I don't begrut her of that. But it was so late that she just stood there. Yeah. Other thoughts, who are we loving? Who are we loving? I like Valentine, she's really good. Um, I like Trinity to ye I'm officially done with Eureka.

I can't, oh, thank you, because we just she's a very talented queen and I love I love her choices with the wardrobe because and I think in her meat the queen, she was like, I just want to wear what you wouldn't normally associate big girls wearing, like I know, where something that you that you say she shouldn't be wearing that, but still pull it off. And I was like, oh, that's cool. But the fact that she has like this attitude problem, she's rude and she's like mean is really

it's like ginger Man's Part two. There you go, It really is. And it's just the thing is, it's so obviously born out of insecurity, and so I almost don't even want I don't want to get to the point where I have to be like fuck you, but like it's got to the point now where it's like, god like get it together. Also, it's not dragged to be really mean yeah at all. Um, I don't even think

it's necessarily out of insecurity. It's just like probably just narcissism or something where she just wants to be the loudest voice. Um. But anyway, think about it though, like we see Eureka as a boy, that's how she walks the Street's like, I don't think Eureka is narcissistic. I think Eureka is probably very insecure, you know what I mean. And that is why I'm trying to come at it with from like a place of like, you know, I want her to love herself enough so she can love

everyone else. Can I get a name in? And you know what I mean? But the thing is like it's just it's just hard, like it's going to be a long road I think for her to get to a place where she's not going to be very defensive. And yeah, and she's a good queen. She is, she is good. So I'm like, just fix the personality, like learn from Roxy Andrews from Beefy, Like just being nasty doesn't doesn't win, just doesn't you know, it's not We ran into Roxy

Andrews yea, and she was really nice. In fact, my boyfriend Henry and I were there at the Islands of Adventure and apparently Roxy's on Orlando Queen and apparently she's always there and Gingerman is always in the theme parks. Because what you do is you go chill in the theme parks because they all have season passes or whatever. It's like the fun thing to do. So we saw her as a boy obvious sleep and my boyfriend was like,

that's Roxy Andrews. And I was like, no way, turned around and all I did was point and say nothing. I was like, I was just like, I see you. So then we obviously got out of the park and took a breath, and then Henry goes, She's coming up right behind you, right now, She's approaching you. She's coming up to us right now. And I was like, I turned around, and she fully came up and gave us a hug, and her friends offered to take a picture and asked us what we were doing in town and

said she was going to happen, like really engaged. And it was so kind and it's so different from the season five Roxy Andrews, which was truly mean, maybe even worse than anyone's ever been. Roxy was pretty bad. She was up there. She was bad. Yeah, it wasn't a good situation, and no, it was. It was really And I love drinks. Do you have a favorite queen of all time? Well, you interviewed the last guy. Yeah, a last it was amazing. She I think my favorites are Alaska, Latrice,

analyssa solid three. Also I really love Katiah Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Katia, that's my girl. But also it's just because you were lated, and I think everybody relates in that capacity where it's like she's paralyzed by fear and insecurity with herself. But um, but Alaska is just like just new And the only time that the vineer ever cracked was that like episode in All Stars to where she just like that melt

like who hasn't had a grandmother of all meltdowns? But um oh, I got Alaska though, Alaska is the one, yeah, the one of it. How was I mean I listened to the episode, but like what was it? Like, Like, he's great. He was just really funny and chill and sweet. It was just really really nice. And we're talking about Lady Gaga and he was saying he met her and it was just like really cool. Yeah, it's really great. Um, he goes to like ECB shows. He just like goes

and hangs. Yeah, He's like he likes the comedy show, which makes me love her even more. We're going to have a drag Queen on this show. I just know it's going to Can I tell you we were trying to get Michelle, like while we were trying to get her, and I think she might be just out of our reach. Like some people that I was talking to about it was like, I think you need to get some queens first and then it'll make it worth Michelle Vissage is while because we're at the point right now where like

probably her people wouldn't even tell her that we contact him. Yeah, but just to connect with the young Gates she does, you can get her. We can get she has a grinder. She does she wants the tea that she has a grind chat. That's hilarious. It's hilarious. But also like, okay, chill out, Michelle, You've got a kid. Just like I'm just saying, not not saying like she can't be on grinding because she has a kid, but it's like with her kid, don't be on the phone chatting with Maybe

the kid is asleep. We all know us kids are awake at night. And then with the other kids. Yeah, I think we can I mean not to like book live while we're on on the record, but like we can get like we know Thorgy like, we've been to Bob shows before she got she was on the show. Have you seen Bob performed live? Not? Not the full Bob experience, not yet, but I really want to. Bob used to do a weekly show at barracouta lounge in New York, and we were lucky because we got to

see Bob before. Before Now you can't see really see Bob anymore. And that was the funniest comedy show in New York. It's that. That was one of the best comedas in New York City. Actually hang out with you guys, for you guys are really hip and cool. I like

to be at home in bed. I see. The thing is though, I also like to be at home in bed, and I also like to be and Bob the drag Queen was the only thing that could get me out of midnight on a Monday, which is when I can't I know, right, But Bob eat it worth it, just go home. Look up, Look up Bob doing a lip sync to God Warrior, God Warrior and the Wife Swap.

Remember that Wife Swap episode where she was like, oh my god, what a very religious Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, So he does a lip sync mixed to that, and then he does a lip sync mixed to Slave for You by Britney Spears with Chris Rock stand up about slavery and it's the most genius. It's a genius so so funny and uh, it's it's just fantastic. So yeah, I mean, god, Bob was great on Two Dope Queens. That energy was yeah, um, oh my god, Phoebe so

tell us. I don't know, this is like slightly cloying, but I mean we're we're, we're, we're we're charting new waters in the podcast world podcast queen. Yes, So was this something because we started doing this and it was just like this will be for us, but like, what's the teams like? So when you started getting into it, yeah, were you just like this will be for fun? Or

was that? Yeah? I mean even before I started with w y C, I used to do a podcast out of my apartment in Brooklyn that like maybe a hundred people listened to and I was just interviewing people and I just had fun doing it. It was like I just want to hang out with funny people and that was it. And then when I teamed up with Jess

and Two Dope queens. We really just wanted to be representing different voices and then saying with like so many white guys, I just really wanted to interview people that I thought were brilliant and hilarious and weren't getting enough shine or like I felt like weren't being asked enough great questions and interviews, and that really is what it's about. Like people get booked, but then they get asked fucking bullshit. Yeah. Yeah.

I felt like a lot of Janet Mock was just like so you're you're a woman now, and it was just like there's so you know what I mean. I just felt so reductive and like this miss been away and just kind of like putting her into other category. It's like there's more to her than just transitioning to her who she really is, you know what I mean? And I just felt like people were just kind of not respecting that or honoring her talent or her intelligence,

and so I just really wanted to stop that. That's fantastic. I remember going to the two Dip Queen's launch party in the Green Space. Oh my god, that's right. So I was there and I got the hook up. This is before we like I this is before we knew each other, but like I had seen you do stand up and then Shaun Womer swarm at Yeah. So she and I did a show together and then he was like, come to this premier party. It's it's gonna be this

great new podcast. I was like cool, So he went and then you you guys came out and then that it was an event hacked and then Phoebe wore this like amazing red dress from Forever one. I don't want to like, just don't take this the wrong way. You look snatched, you like amazing, and I think you walked up on stage and you get and you said and I'll never forget this. You said, um, I can't do anything in this stress except get laid. And I was like, I don't remember saying that. That's so that's such a

good line. I did not get late at night. I mean, you know, you know sometimes I'm single, just you are single? So yeah, can I tell you what I heard about today? What? Yeah, Rya, I'm wait listed. I've been wait listed for a year and a half. Why would they wait? Like, I don't know. And I have a friend who got on Riya and used me as a reference and I'm still not allowed on.

Oh my god, that's that's bullshit for those of you who don't know it, because I didn't know this, But Riya is like a dating after famous people for famous people, like for creatives, really really creatives. Yea for like notable creatives. And Phoebe Robinson is not call your mother fucking senators. That's bullshit right in call and you know what, don't email Diane, find guys, get on it. Get on it, Kirsty Brand maybe um, maybe vote on Phoebe. Wait, someone

who's us a reference? That's that's crazy. So someone is working on it, so hopefully all happen. But I heard that it's I've heard mixed things. I heard that it's just like every other day app where there's a lot of turns to yeah, I'm sure. I know. I'm a romantic. I just want to meet in personally, honestly. That's how Henry and I met, And I was the only way I was looking. How did you guys we met? When

we met? Um, Josh Sharper Aaron Jackson do a show in New York called Gay Show for All People and their pianist is Henry Koperski, and I was on the show doing a set, and that was when at the very first time, and actually I was on that show with a lot of Glazer and who I had known like several years prior because she was in a video that my sketch group did, and so I was reconnecting

with her. And it was so funny because I was so excited to see her because I hadn't seen her in years, and also I was like just pumped to see a lot of perform So I was catching up, not even catching up because we weren't like friends, like kind of knew each other, but I was like picking her brain a little bit, talking to her, and this whole time out of the corner of my eye, I was like, but also that piano player though, but also like and I always clocked Henry, but he had a

boyfriend at the time, and then they broke up and three days later we got together. We were good together ever since. How have you guys been together? Just hit up? Two years? Oh my god, congratulations, Beautiful is the best. But what I'm saying is I always in the back of my head was like, yeah, please God, let me meet someone in real life. But I was looking on the apps I'm holding out for John Hamm. Yeah. O, my god, you did the podcast, like you know there

was a connection, and there was a connection. Yeah, you have that. I would ask this SIMI serious question, and it supplies to both of you, tell three of us, to everybody in this room. Okay, But with Ryan, if it's for creatives, how do we feel about dating people in the creative world? Because I was talking to someone about like about this and they and they were like, oh, I would never want to date another person tangentially even in my field, because they would just be this competitive thing.

Here's the thing specifically with Riot, it's not just creatives in terms of like writers and actors and communities like Amy Schumer met her like a woodworker. Boys, Yeah, under the under the umbrella of creat like if you're an entrepreneur, like on your own business, you know that sort of thing. If you're not like an accountant, then you're then you

qualify basically can't just be working at the desk. Um. But for me, it's like, when I was looking around, I just didn't want to date someone that was doing exactly what I was doing, especially when you're dating another man, because then it's like you literally are coming for the same spot. Yeah, I wanted to avoid that because I know, like I might have some some deep seated competition. Yeah.

I also want your thing to be your thing and not you know, you want to like date someone who like has different interests than you, so when you come home, you're not just talking about the same thing you know means you want. Yeah, I don't want a date a comedian. I will never do it again. I've done it in

the past and my twos and I'm like, never again. Um, but I'm open to like a I'm like, I'm open to Michael B. Jordan, Like I'm open to I think I could be very open, you know what I mean, I could be wide open and there I'll put it out there. Poppers oh um, but yeah, I think. Yeah, he's so dread christ though for me, and so talented it's insane. Do you know who I love? Who? Um? Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. Yeah they were all in a movie together, No, Michael, I

mean yes, Um, are you're talking about Herschela? And yeah, and also who played at the end of the movie, Um, Kevin? Who grown up? Oh? He was I was super And also not for nothing but that was a hot movie. It gets it gets it gets credit for being a great movie, but also it doesn't get enough credit for being a hot movie. Um, I just watched it that h J. I was like, the h J was a moment and also you get you get a little an

Oscar worthy hand job. Is that the only movie that's ever an Oscar winner where a hand drop was a full plot point? Maybe? I think so, yes, I think that that didn't happen in Black Swan Matts. Matt's like new latest fixture is the lead from Power from the Power Rangers. It's I haven't seen it, okay, so again the basic like like hot dude. It's like, he's a hot twenty two year old Australian who's obviously being starved named Dhacker montgomer Right. That name is too much, way

too much. It's way too much and he's way too much but like to to do too much good. Yeah, but I was going to say, what's his name, Oh, Jesse Smollett, who's that he's Honestly, he's snuck up on me because in the beginning episodes of Empire, I was like no, and then later on I was like, yes, he can sing, he's so handsome, He's amazing. And then of course I always I always love my boys, my Justin Timber, like my Crispine. I'm a crisp Pine. Okay,

which one is that that track? Because the right white Chris is it's hard to keep them all in check. He is Captain Kirk. Oh, I thought that was Chris Evans. Chris Evans is Captain America. I'm so sorry these hot straight white captain's name Chris Oh yeah yeah, Chris Pine. Yeah. That's a cute working like everything to me. And I wish I could get into Zachary Quinto, but I'm just not. He's I'm not a spot guy. I'm a Kirk guy,

if you know what I mean. He's keute on his Instagram though, Zacharyyah, yeah, he's like he's like a cute, stylish kid. There you go, and you can go for that. Yeah right, yeah, Okay. Do you have a type or do you think the word that? I don't know. I think I like kind of. I think my type is changing because I'm I'm thirty two now and I think i'm because I have more self esteem now, I love

myself more. I think it's changing anything. Before I was just kind of like thank you, just like thank you so much for like liking me, you know what I mean, just like, oh, I'm so happy you want to date me. I'm just grateful to be in a relationship. And now I'm like, I want to day to boss. I want to date someone who reads. And it's funny obviously like super cute, but like I think I just want an

involved man. You want somebody that can take care of themselves and has figured themselves out, exactly, trying to be the person who saves anybody not here for potential anymore. Sorry, Sorry, I can't. I'm done. If we can get Phoebe a man from this podcast, if you're out there, if you're an involved man, reach out like late thirties early that ye, Honestly, if anyone deserves an involved man, it's me and Phoebe. Yeah. Wait,

how long have you been single? It's been almost my life. Well, the last time I date someone was like years ago, but like and then nothing's nothing's gone beyond like two three months. Yeah, it's hard, and I wouldn't consider myself ever having been in a relationship relationship. I've had things. Um, I was recently on our friend Farris podcast where it's called Psychic Hotline one dollar a minute. She brings on comedians and they talked to psychics sic. And that's my

main question, my name. My main question was, Hey, um, I've just been dealing with this my whole life and people telling me all the time like, we'll work on yourself and then they'll come. But I've been like I've been I've been doing that for forever, like what like what gives? Like when's this going to happen? And then the psychic who may have been bat at her job because she just didn't really give me much, but she was like, you know what, I'm thinking, mid May, you'll

get someone. And then um, and then she goes, I'm seeing September. By September, you'll be living together. And I was like, okay, that's some wild I mean, I don't that doesn't sound like me. That opens up a whole bunch of more questions. Books wrong with me? In June and July, that's that's a lot. I don't get together by September, pumped the brake four months days, moved fast but not stupid. Oh my god. Yeah. I was just like okay, and then I just like count like you're

in there, like maybe I want a dog? And she was like, yeah, you know what, by the time you're moved into the pah, it was like next week, I gun said, you get a dog? Okay. I was like okay, thanks lady. And then her whole, her whole like adage for me was and she just had this like raspy, smoky voice and she was like, um, she was like, you know, just what I say is this is what you have to remember. Just say why not? Why not let myself have a dog and a boyfriend? And I

was like, I kind of like pushed back. I was like, that doesn't really tell me anything. Well, so I have intov was seventeen times you because for for a literal fucking uh, you know, four month relationship before you move in Like that's not going to end well. But anyway, that's yeah, she's crazy. She's crazy. Yeah, hard pass, hard pass, hard pass for me on believing, oh meet too. And I even to you a believer and would you head up? Would you? I don't think I would, But I believe

in other things. I could believe in aliens, yeah for sure, for sure. Here I believe in like the secret and like the universe and all that kind of like stuff. Oh my god. Well I will only believe like that kind of new ag stuff when it comes. And I mean that it's not just because we were talking about her earlier, when it comes from Oprah, because she has

another video where she says there are no mistakes. You know I'm talking about She's like, but there is that thing that pushes you along your path and will always set you right. And it's like, that's it. That's my religion. It's so true. Um. But then I but I like, I was very up front with this lady over the phone. I was like, by the way, this is my first time calling um, and I don't believe in astrology. I'm

like not, but I'm just doing this for fun. Um. And meanwhile Fare was just sitting there like pitt and buttons and and and stuff. But anyway, UM, my boyfriend like for a second was like twining with the idea of like getting into numerology, and I was like, and then I sicked my best friend's studio on him, and she was like, if you have problems, you need to go to a therapist. Neurology is not it, That's it.

That's true. He meditate, um phoebe before we move on any other little I know what, we didn't really talk about this that much, any little podcasting tips. I know, it's like such a silly here's a question for you. When you are about to interview someone, did you come with your question? Yeah. So we have like very small crew with so many white guys. But they'll do research and then they'll send me like the first round of questions.

Then I go through and tweak them that at my own questions, and then I just kind of want to do the interview. I just kind of like follow wherever the interview goes. Yeah, that's the way you gotta do it, because Yeah, because especially when you're talking to people, like when I interviewed I don't know, my interviewed Tom Hanks.

It was just like super fun and delightful, and I just kind of wanted to go wherever he wanted to go because he was he was so good at playing Yeah, because he's done in a million times and I'm sure he wants He felt it very refreshing. Yeah, I just have this kind of like candid conversation exactly. The most Tom Hanks, No, the most nervous. I was was with one was with Strangely enough, the comedians, like Margaret Cho I was very nervous with her, Um Mike bro big

Leia was pretty nerves and I don't know why. But with the comedians, I just really want to do a good job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I don't want to be like, oh I'm not able to be funny with them. I don't know. It was just like really like but it was great. Like Margaret was so funny and smart, just delightful. I was like, girl, just relax. I'm so glad. She's like she's coming back. Maybe she's never been gone.

But like in terms of like formative comedic influences, well, here's the thing is, I was never I didn't want to get into stand up like it was never a comedy was never my thing. Like I thought I was going to write like very serious films. Yeah, I was like American Beauty, I'm gonna write like that floating trash

bag scene. Like that's like what I wanted. And so then when I started, you know, taking stand up class, and I kind of went back and I watched like Margaret Show and Chris Rock Generous and all those people so I really had to play catch up. But yeah, she is great. I mean it's but like her specials that watched, they were great, Uh yeah, like Wanda Sykes and just people like that, just really smart. Like I

really liked Patrise O'Neil. I didn't agree with like thirty five percent of what he said, but he was so funny. He was always coming from a place of like his truth, which I thought was like very authentic and real and wasn't necessarily about like putting anyone down. It was more about how he sees the world. And even he's like kind of a little backwards gender wise, it's still kind of felt like, oh, this is coming from a place of not like women are just doom cunes. Like it

was never that, you know what I mean. Did you watch the chall stuff? I did? I mean it's you know, I have I haven't watched that and I haven't haven't watched it yet because I'm like, I just yeah, yeah, I still have. I still have a lot of respect for him. It's it's weird to reconcile. It's like, I don't know, it's it's it's it's it's very complicated. But

I think some of his stuff was funny. I think some of his queer stuff, I just think he's behind and I feel like so many jokes, I'm like, oh, if he just replaced like instead of gay or trans and replace like a black person, I don't think he would make that joke, sure, totally. But meanwhile, it's like that's so funny that people think that that is like a viable option because meanwhile, you have and I'm just

gonna like shout out you and Jessica. It's like, well, YouTube youtubo on stage just like talk about yourselves and celebrate yourselves. And it's like just do that, yeah, and it's more fun and it's like good for everybody. It's more interesting to turn it in word yeah, And I think if you're going in I don't know. It's just like I don't think I would ever do trans material because it's like I'm not intelligent enough to talk about it yet. And that's okay, you know what he means.

And like sometimes it's like you, the best thing that you can do is not be the voice of it, just passed into an actual transperson and have them do the comedy. And that's better than you, like trying to figure it out as like as this person and like really like do it poorly, you know, especially because it's

always changing. Yeah, it's sometimes I think about like how far we've come in like five or six years even and we thought we were like nailing it in two thousand nine, It's like there was still like garbage happening, like the amount of the amount of like like frustrating like gay joke he saw like network television, like they only just are disappearing now, that is true, and it's very like like sometimes you go back and watch you like watch like Friends or something like the amount of

gay panic on that show. It was like what and even it's crazy even on Will and Grace, like that was just what you guys feel about because so from the outside, I go, oh, it was a little backwards, but I think it was like a great first step. But do you feel that are you kind of like nah, like was not. I don't think it's bad that it existed.

I think it's it was such a funny show and I think it like it was It got people talking about like what it must be like to be gay, and it got people like on the side of gay people because they were able to laugh with gay people. However, what I think it did contribute to, perhaps unknowingly, was this thing of like you're either a Will or a Jack.

And because they were the only two real gay people on like mainstream network television, so it was like, you know, you know, people were getting asked by their aunts and uncles like that were coming if you were coming out of the closets or you were a Will or a Jack, you know what I mean, Like you're either this or you're that, or you're either a man like a woman. And because I think it was so important to the comedy of that show that we had that duality, like

it just ended up yeah, I know you mean. Also, it also kind of bothered me that Will like he never, like, I don't think his relationships were ever explored as deeply as Graces were. And that always bothered me because I was like I and Debor Messing was like a goddess on that show. She was like hysterical, but I'm like, I just like Eric McCormick, just you could see there was so much she could do if they just gave him like a really needy, substantial relationship, and they didn't

do that. Also, McCormick is a straight man. And that's also another thing is it's just like you know again, like and that you know, it's not too long ago that we were like, don't worry, he's actually straight, and real life like, don't worry, audiences of America, he's actually straight. It's funny. And also Sean Hayes was saying he was straight at the time. I know, and that that's crazy. But it's also like I don't know what I would do and position at that time. It's like really hard.

It was probably wasn't just his decision, did you like I loved well and grace and um, but I'm but yeah, thinking about Shawn Hay's it's like he probably had his raps being like you cannot absolutely it didn't matter that he played like the gayest of all gay caricatures. It was still going to be a bad situation that he was Yeah, totally totally. Um. Before we move on to I don't think so honey, phoebe Um, can we just have a general convo how how how are you so

excited for I lived, Dick? Are you so excited for Portlandia? Like what's what's what's what's like coming down the pike that you want to talk about. Yeah, so I Loved Dick comes out May twelve. I don't know if this is going up before or after that, probably right around that really excited Kevin Bacon, Katherine Haky. Katherine is amazing, so sweet, and Kevin is just like he's like the night. Yeah. I just laughed because I like would avoid I contact

with him so much. That was so intimidated by him, and like now I'm like, oh, that's kind of a person like saying. I was like, he's so cool and funny and like really good at his job and like he's hot, and I was like, I'm just going to go be a comedian the corner. He's an amazing actor. He's so good and everyone says how wonderful he is just to be around, and what a good person he is. Yeah, I think when you've been famous for that longer, like

I don't care that I'm famous, like living my life. Yeah. And they raised an amazing daughter, Socie, who's my friend. I love her and she's on thirteen Reasons Why, and everyone should watch Reasons. The show's heavy. I hear it's a very rough and a friend of mine, Julia mcnell writes on and I shout out. Julia writes on it, Oh that's so cool, but I heard it's very yeah, but also but also good. Sometimes we need to talk

about it. Oh my god, what's Jill like? Cute? She's like really cool and funny and sweet and like she's she's a genius, Like she's really able to like pinpoint how to make something better and you're just like, WHOA, I wouldn't be like that, you know at her age and Portland is great to like. Fred and Carry are just so funny and really sweet and they're great leaders. I just really feel like this year I'm just able to work with people who were just really there's like

no bullshit, there's no drama. Everyone is just like we're here to do a job and it's fun and then we can go home. And I like that great to just not be disappointed by those people that you have looked up to and have to look up to you in a professional setting. Yeah, they're just like facilitating your growth and your success. That's awesome. Yeah. So it's been good. And I just sold my second book. We're just saying, yeah, can you tease? Well, it's going to be another essay

collection one one essay, it's called white Nonsense. So um, I think it's going to be super fun. We're trying to figure out a title right now, and yeah, I'm gonna start writing it. I guess next month. This is why I'm single. I'm like, I'm just going to keep working and like, hopefully my husband will find me. Yeah, honestly, it is. It has happened, It's happening. I just don't want to be like Katherine Heigl in Seven Dresses. No, but then she ended up. Who was the James Marson

He's the one. He's the one because he can act, he can see, he can dance, Oh my god. Honestly, he's the kind of guy that you know, smells good. Yes, yes, I agree with absolutely absolutely Last World that I haven't seen it yet, recommend. The first few episodes are hard because some feasing or no in terms of this subject matter, it's like, fuck, it's like another HBO show. There's going to be another HBO show, which is but then that flips it on its head and actually becomes about that

and it's amazing. Again it's West World. And I have to give big ups to HBO because they have kind of taking this criticism that's like, Yo, a lot of women get raped and murdered and beat up in your shows, and they've kind of really taken that narrative and now they make shows that are about that. But it's it really um kind of just make society look at itself like big what Big Little Lies did? Like where where

you know, people ask what is that show about? And you start describing it and everyone's like, that sounds like every other stupid show about like rich white women like fighting with each other. But really it's a show about domestic violence and how that ripples through a community and

affects everyone. For the worst. West World is about like how violence is entertainment and it's specially violence against women as entertainment and what that does to the psyche and where it could lead and and it's and it's really Yeah, that sounds really fascinating, and it's also extremely well done. And probably maybe the best performance on television is Tandy Newton Tandy's it. Do you think that she should win? So they will be in different categories than all the

big Little Lives ladies? And yes, I do absolutely. Although she's being she's this is breaking tea news, she's being campaigned as a lead actress in Westworld, and she's not the lead actress of the show, and she could flat out win the supporting actress category, but the best actress category is kind of being swept up by Claire Foy from The Crown. So I haven't seen it because I'm so bored of old British It's Nicole kidman, except it's

an old British man. Yeah, so I think she's being she's being put in the wrong category, but I think that she's she should be showering around boards. There you go, you gotta and Tandy Newton has been people talk about people like sleeping on Laura durn like sleeping on it. You we've been sleeping on that's gonna be why. I don't think so, honey. That's the first one I've revealed

my I don't think so, Honny it. But Phoebe, we're just saying it's happening for you and not necessarily for like someone to come and like like be your s O. We're just saying, like, you're doing so much, it's so cool, it's so inspiring to watch. We love you so much because you're a true creative powerhouse. I just want to have an empire and create my own shows and health facilitate other people to create their ship. And I just go back and sit back, like you just go crushing ye,

like I know the beautiful ripple effect. I love that. I don't it's time for I don't think so honey. And of course, Phoebe recently did Our Lives show, which was so fun. That was all my period. I was so tired. I'm so sorry, but that's why that's why I left. I was watched all the end. But then I got into a lift immediately like look, no, no, you gotta go when you got to thank you so much for doing that. That was so so so great

of you and iconic. I don't think so honey about women who put their braids up in a tall bun. It's so infuriating. It's like, I can't see this concert. No you can't, you can't come on. Just just think you think of the people around you, get the eyeline around you. Know what I just changed. I'm not going to do people who come frot handing because I just I just told you that you should be ashamed. I have someone else here. We go, you go first, because

I'm still thinking I'm gonna go first. Matt Rodgers. I don't think so, honey. Time starts now. I don't think so honey, John Mayor, I don't care about your new album. You're disrespectful. You're very disrespectful. I don't care about about you and your music. I don't care about your winey ass was you have a low wine to your voice. You think that you're Bob Dylan. No, you know what, Honestly,

I don't think so, honey. You being disrespectful to women, you spilled all the tea about women you've slept with. You are the equivalent of that person on Facebook who just wants the likes. You posted garbage, and you've been posting the same ship all the dude on day and you just you expect to get likes for it. Look, I can listen to this album right now. It could sound the same fucking ship as Continuum, And that's literally the only other album from Not True Room for Squares.

John Mayer, I don't think some honey, you don't bring enough. I think you're seven out of town in terms of looks. It could be better if I want to listen to someone's strumma guitar, bring Jackson Moras, where are you at, Jackson Morra? I don't think so, Honey, John Mayer. I think so Jason Morra. And that's the one minute that was so good. I don't care about that. Continuum is so good. Continue album. I'll be okay. Really it's really good. But he is trash. He is true trash, and he

was a racist piece of ship Tom and Johnny. That's true. He was. Camille tweeted this whole thing. You have to look it up. He because John Marred dabbles in stand up I guess hard passed, and like, oh he doesn't dabble. He's gone out and done it. He's done it. And then like he and Kamil are on the same bill when night. Isn't that the stupidest thing you've ever heard?

But then like after the show, like I don't know what instigated it, but like they got into like a full on like war of words and like just fucking they got into it. So look that up. It's so distanct don't to go out and describe what sex was like with people, and everyone knows he but not that he explicitly described sex with people that like and like they weren't I don't know it was. That's a form

of harassment. And also like then he got all pissed because Taylor Swift wrote like an indirect song about him. It's like please, he said, and spin don't act like you weren't on Howard Stern, like spilling the tea, like I don't like hypocrites. And he gets away with it because he's like a straight white dude. Sure, I mean I think for sure absolutely. Are you racking your brain trying to think you have a couple? You have to decide yeah, okay, okay, I don't come over you and

you were just like, oh my god. He has fingers to temples and extremely amazing beautiful manicure white. Okay, so this is inspired by Christianner. She paints her nails white. I saw some keeping with the Kardashians. It's like the one super trash thing that I watched and I was like, I want to try this. This is the only thing from the Kardashian life I want to try and I like it. It works so well, maybe I need a lip Cattie. She's too much? Is that these are? And

also is this a print pin it? I thought it from wild Fank dot com. They're a feminist clothing apparel. Check them out. It's time, Bowen, I don't have anything with solid Well, you're gonna you want me to go into the trouball. No, no, no, go into the trouball. Yes, so everyone, But when I decided that it's times, are going to the trouball, of course, the trouball is um our pot pourri of pop culture topics. And he has

to go negative on whatever I choose right now. And these are all universally loved in general university loved things. I really want to find something good. I want to find something that comes out of nowhere. Okay, okay, here we go, all right, Bowen yang your I don't think so, honey is about Mrs Claus and it starts now. I don't think so honey, misses Clause and whoever invented you, whatever fucking norse idiot invented you and Mrs Claus to be a feminized version of Santa Claus used at home

being domestic as fuck. Look, I am third weighte feminist, honey, Yes I am, but I don't appreciate you just sitting at home and not rocking chair, knitting or whatever the fuck you're doing, Mrs Cloth. I don't think somebody, Mrs Clause, what are you doing the rest of the year when it's not Christmas? You better be reading some fucking Joan Didion. You better be reading some rock sand gay. I don't care,

just better you. You better be reading and come correct to the Santa Claus and to teach him to be a better human being. I don't think somebody, Mrs Clause, where are you? We need to see you surface yourself. Where are you, Mrs Clause? We need more female representation during the holidays, And I don't think somebody you stay stay just sitting in front of the fucking uh fireplace mantle and just thinking that you can just get away with just being domestic as fun. You asked where are you?

We know where she is, but I'm saying, where is she? In the conversation. We don't talk about her, Okay, alrighty, welcome is obviously high. This is like so scary, No, you're gonna pull that right over there. But it's like so scary, No, it's not scary, phobe. You're gonna nail You nailed it the first time you've done this before. Dope, Queen fee but also the track this is, I don't Phoebe Robinson's I don't think so, honey. Time starts now,

I don't think so. Lift drivers who are not based in New York do not ask me to sit in the front passenger seat with you. They are not driving to Coachella together. Hi, I'm trying to go home and take this plan b pill. Okay. Also, learn how to pronounce my name. Don't say Phoebe and it's Bob. I've been on charm, Phoebe from Charmed, Phoebe from Friends, Phoebe from Catcher and the Raight honey. Also what also, hey, you're you're fucking like music choice. It's just Ryan Seacrass

and Jason Derulo fucking ain't smokers, honey. I don't think so paris, I don't think so closer. I am done. I cannot so. I can't also cannot with the Please rate me five stars, bitch, I will rate you what I want to rate you. Get out my life. Oh my god, you spoke for us all and you threw in there and I don't think so honey. For the chain smokers, oh my god, I'm so done with the chain smokers. I was never started to them for like a solid two months, and I was like, oh no,

I got I got duped I got you got dukes there. Yeah, they're like they're just like bros. Yeah, imagine to John Mayers, who can like use garage band. I just actually actually, I mean actually I'm dead now. I just jumped out the way. Okay, Oh my god, you guys, this has been such a good episode to Oh, come on, what's coming and we just want to hang with you. Well, let's when we all are back in New York. Can we just do a fun slumber party? Not at my apartment,

says I look far away. Oh god, we love listen. Phoebe has so much coming up, so you're going to see her everywhere and don't worry about that. And I think this is going to be premiering right for the show I Love Dick on Amazon. Please watch it, Please rate it. Jill Soloway, Kevin Bacon, Catherine Han and me with my small lines you honestly, we cannot wait. Guys. This has been the last culture this podcast. And next to next to me is Matt Roger. In front of

us is Phoebe Robinson. This has been so fun. Thank you, Forever Dog. Thank you everybody. Why yay, Oh my god, my gosh. That is really good. Okay, so in Harry Potter. This has been a Forever Dog production, executive produced by Joe Cilio, Alex Ramsay and bread Bone. For more podcasts, please visit Trevor Dog Productions dot com. M h door h m hm