"Nomi Malone Muppet" (w/ Shalewa Sharpe)

of a width there. You know. Yes, it's sort of like there's housewives and there's businesswomen, and sometimes there's a crossover in the middle. You understand, just just two circles touching, kissing, right exactly, they're just kissing. But then there's beathening in the middle. And I haven't watched a new reality show and it's not what I'm asking about today. Yeah, okay, I hear. It's fine, but keep going. That sounds exactly right.

That sounds exactly right, king, And but that's that's that's the story before you get into this. That's the story of Bethany, right, someone that you're like, oh my god, we love her, and then it just sort of like it took a turn and you're like Okay, now it's averaged out to the media, is fine. I would call Bethany Frankel effective, But to what end? Oh, and that's a real culture, real culture number thirty fourth effective, But

to what end? You know? And you know, now she's kind of become the person that she might have made fun of years ago and big time when she was selling cookies and an aisle four or that what she sold cookies or whatever. I don't know, skinny girl pastries, pastries. You see, you understand, so you understand, you understand, so then you understand so that you understand. Um, So this is sort of what I wanted to ask you about.

So one of the things I think is like very much straight culture but crosses over with gay culture is the artist meat Loaf, because I feel that meat Loaf is he's he's straight culture and that he's a he's a male rocks are Ye, but he's gay culture, and that he's drama, and that he his song is famously um it's I'll come back to Me Now, which was then covered by the y constantin the on and so we really wouldn't have that song without a meat Loaf to do it first. So I feel that there's some

queer culture in here and straight culture. Now do you know the song Paradise by the dashboard Light, I don't see. I actually reject the notion that meat Loaf is or a Paradise Light or whatever is straight culture, because I was gonna be like, I was gonna do my apologetic thing of like, no, yeah, never apologize. I'm a child of immigrants. I didn't grow up with meat Loaf. But now I'm just like, no, meat loaf is not gay culture. And I actually but I don't need to. I don't

mean to, like, yeah, undermine your whole thing. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Why it's it's okay, It's it's okay, even though you're sort of glaring at me and shaking your hand, it's okay. And the only reason I say I think I make a valid argument that he is sort of a draggy like star. There's mellow to the drama und percent and you you actually have to also remember his

performance with Katherine McPhee on American Idols. He's in finale when they sang it stuff I'm back to me now, and he was acting the song very hard, and Katherine, we we thought that maybe she'd be killed during the performance because he was sort of acting and singing so hard. So I do think there's like a lot to him that's worth it. But I just want to say I know every word of the song Paradise by the Dashboard Light. And the other day I was out actually getting drunk

with straight people. I was out getting drunk with very dangerous and I was out getting drunk with Greta, her husband Abe, Greta's sister Emily, and my friend, my dear friend Ian, who's is gay but hangs out with straights a bunch as well socially straight. And I wouldn't I don't know if I'd go that far, but like certainly

certainly interacts with straight people. And the song Paradise by the Dashboard Light came on and I was like, oh my god, classic song, started singing it at everyone, expecting everyone to sort of joe going in and they didn't. And I'm realizing this might be a Jaws thing where it's like only my like Long Island ass knows it because it played at every single sweet We did not, we did not establish the fact that Jaws is a Long Island specific piece of culture. But you had said

that it was. And we're gonna, you know what, We're gonna ask the guests, and I'm sure she'll agree with you because she, the guess is the guest is cultured, and I feel, you know, sort of conveys like an intelligence and a like sort of cultural literacy that maybe I don't have. But from my from my perspective, you said that sort of I know Jaws and didn't know sound of music because I'm Long Island trash and not worldly. I didn't you being a worldly girl. I did not

say you were Long Island trash. Well, I don't say stuff like that. You're being You're like, you're whatever. I don't okay, all right, and your your argument. I'm just saying I didn't realize that not everyone didn't know it's fine paradise by the dashboard light. Honey. This this is actually no, this is what no say, what you have to say. This is something. Oh, here we go. I don't mean to I don't mean to make this about race,

but this, this is something. This is something that like white people do with the Western culture where they it feels like it's universal into themselves and so they think that everybody knows Paradise Cove? What what was it? Okay? So everyone, let me just say something. Paradise Cove is literally it sounds like a hot dating singles reality, it's not this. It's Paradise by the dashboard light. Can see Paradise by the dash board light sort of goes like that,

ain't no doubt about it. We were doubly blessed because we will barely seventeen and we will barely dressed. I mean, even as I'm singing it, I'm like, this is pathetic straight culture. We need to ask our guests. She's gonna be the tiebreaker. She's gonna be the tiebreaker. But can I say, just because you made it about race and you did and you didn't quote what mean to, but you did, everyone at the table problematic. There are five people at the table, run off the table white and

they didn't know the song. They didn't know the song. What what are you talking about at your table at dinner time? I'm just saying, it's like your your attempt to sort of make this about race false flop because and they actually, when you grew up not a white person in America, you kind of don't go in with the assumption that, oh, people know the ship that I

grew up on. That's t that's I gotta explain to Teresa Tang to some motherfucker's not just talking about you, talking about I'm just talking about people in general society. Can I tell you something And I'm sorry I made it about race. I actually don't apologize because everything is about race. Well, you already apologized, and that's and and you can't take it back. You can't. Did you listen to Girl and Red I told you to listen to and listen to the entire thing today. Do you think

what did you think? I thought it was. I think I think it's really good. You were you were sort of being like, oh my god, this is brand new. I really loved it. I really loved it. I think it's so I'm like, this is like a new a new person coming into the scene with a really good them in, really great songwriting, and she's like giving you like some innovations on like indie pop and pop punk, and like it's really fun. That's all I said. I did not hyper out to be this new girl. All

I said was I really liked it. I was surprised that you singled it out so hard because because it's an excellent pop album. Your this is like what you did with me with her, this is what I did with I did you did with Olivia Rodrigo. And I'm I know, I'm completely on board. This is what you're gonna You're gonna stand Girl in Red, And I already stand.

I already stand. In fact, I was listening to it today and I was like, absolutely, I said the word absolutely absolutely to it and and so I'm all I'm saying is I was surprised that you were so immediately on board with this because I feel like, upon first listen, I was just like, oh, yeah, I've heard stuff like this before. But it's good. But she's she's really threading

a lot of things together. She didn't interview and Vulture um where like her name and like her on her main musical inspiration is guess who Avril Levine, Taylor Close, Taylor Swift. She's huge, Taylor Swift. She's one of the

biggest pop stars. She goes into this whole thing about how like Red was like an album, like she was like a kid the Girl in Red when when Reddy came out, and like Red like was fully formative culture that made her say culture was for her, and then like and then Taylor, even Miss Taylor herself even went on stories and said, you gotta listen to this album Girl and Red. That's that's huge. I bet that. I bet that made girl the girl in Red very happy.

Her name is Marie. She's Norwegian, and that's all you need to know. She's Norwegian, and so that of course the hooks are going to be solid. So she's made of pop music. It's part of her DNA. She's drinking the water. Um. You know, you know who's made of comedy gold. It's part of our guests. Okay, what's what's the deal with our guest? Our guest hosts co host

podcast The War Report. To the War Report. She's got two incredible stand up albums out I love stating cookies and so so you just out here, So you just out here stating cookies. I was like, I was like, this person gets it on a cultural level because and I don't want to I don't want to step on her answer potentially for when we ask for the question. But she is Sesame Street queen, oh major. And you know someone is good, you know someone is like really

really solid when they appreciate sesame street culture. And here's the thing. No one talks about how funny sesame street is. Oh, it's comedy genius, it's comedy gold. Name another group of legends. They are a group of legends. It's actually a real culture. Number seventeen. There are a group of legends that got together on the street, on the block, on the on the on the and they and they said, how about you go in the trash can you go there? You go over there, you go into the house, you go

onto the stoop. They said, girl, you go in the wind, this will be good. You go in the window. Girl, you go in the can. Girls, girl singles, You're gonna be so nasty and mean. Now we all know what's a joke. Girl. Your thing is you're tall, so you should be the big bird. That's so good for you. Girl. I love your skin tone. Put on this cape and your thing is gonna be like you love numbers. Hey, girl, put those cookies that actually keep eating, keep eating the cookies.

That's perfect. You'll be the cookie monster. Oh my god, Oh this is gonna be so effing good. We can't say because the kids are watching its PBS. But we're gonna. I think we're gonna move to HBO someday. Yeah, oh my god. I can't wait for the Sesame Streets to get filthy. You know what I mean? Sesame Street after dark? How how rough does it get? I bet a bit rough. Um. You've seen her on the iconic appearance on the Goddamn Tonight Show, You've seen her on Comedy es Central, HBO,

You're gonna be seen her everywhere. You're gonna be listening to her each week on Thursdays when new episodes of The War Report come out, because you're about to fall in love. And that's just that. I don't make the rules at all. Nuther just bone yang because no, I wish I could, but I don't. Here's who makes the rules? Sure? Come on? Oh wow that was that was lovely? Well listen, Hi, how are you feeling? How are you feeling? I'm feeling all right? Yeah, you feel good? Yes? Can you? Can

you break this tie for us? Have you heard this song Paradise by the Dashboard? Here's the thing. I have heard it, not damn it, but I don't. It is partially a it's a little it's a touch of a race thing in the way that like sweet Caroline is got it? You know, you know Sweet Caroline. Of course I know Sweet Caroline. Yeah, but I didn't. I didn't hear it. I didn't hear being sung by by people who looked like me. Do you know what I'm saying.

I honestly didn't hear that until my late twenties. I didn't hear Hotel California until I was about but I heard people complaining about it for many years, and then when I heard it, I was like, oh, this isn't bad. So this is the issue with the meat the meat Loaf song is that it's a it's a generational issue. Yeah, I guess my shock was that I was at a table drinking a bootful of light beer with streat people

and they did not know the song. Maybe I need to be more clear about that, that these straight people didn't know this meat loaf song while I was drinking something that was you know, light and a beer. I mean that was it's definitely because they were too young to have taken that in either way, And it was kind of picked up in campier circles, which is that that Greta didn't heal it. But I just think I feel like she still should have um, but yeah, it was. It was a man that the late seventies was a

campy time when we missed that. Yeah, it was a campy time so that a meatlook could appear. And you're like, oh, absolutely, let's let drama club dude sing these songs with all of his parts. And Taylor made for something that will happen in the future where people will sing these songs in front of other drunk people. This is this is our guy. And see, this is what I was talking about. This is the breakdown. I'm hearfect analysis. Yeah, that's what

That's what it is. But I can understand why it would seem like maybe only people in Long Island had heard it because I but I think I know it because of drama club people, because of chorus people in high school, and then because of karaoke. But then again, I also was around a lot of white folks. That's certainly I couldn't have turned to my parents and said, hey, have you heard this? That was not that that The media question would have been was it on Motown? No?

Then Sweden? And the answer is decidedly question Unfortunately unfortunately not remind us for you where you grew up again. I grew up in Atlanta in Stone Mountain, right, mountain rural not rural rural, No, it's not. No. It's about ten miles uh northeast of the city of Atlanta. But the thing with Stone Mountain is it's a it's a a mountain. It's like a hill, a big granite hill. Um that's got Confederate Army heroes etched into the side. It's a non rural Confederate hill. Yes. I mean like

people make trips there. And at the time that my family moved there, the clan was still doing rallies on the top of the mountain. But then they switched it for a family friendly laser show and is and that's actually the ideal replacement. That's the ideal replacement. Theory is when it comes to white supremacies. Yeah, is that you want to you want to go laser show, friend, make it pretty towards you can close it out with Elvis

singing Dixie Um. Yes. And they would take a laser and they had the three Confederate Army heroes on horses, and so they would take a laser and outline the car.

The monuments are still there. Yeah, oh yeah, they're carved into the side of the mountain and they're still the mountains, still there, and the lasers would like outline the three of them on horses and then add legs to the horses and then have the like march off to lose, I guess, and and then they you know, shoot fireworks and uh that that Stone mount which, of course naturally UM wants some black people moved in experience wild white flight, and now the population of it is mostly black Asian,

and I think about to go through its own case of gentrification, UM because it's the only place I think they are, I know, and so I think, yes, as housing becomes what it is, I think the gays are moving out there, and I'm like, I can't believe. I can't believe I'm watching I want and then gentrification in this area and it's wild to think of. But I'm also keeping that in mind in case maybe I need

to grab a house down there or something. Well, they probably heard about the light shows, and you know, gays can do interesting things with light shows. Lasers just be getting the only laser I want. Stone Mountain is the one that's gonna destroy the statue. It's gonna cut through the statues. But I mean, look, they've they've switched up the laser show a little bit. They've added outcast and the indigo you can't outcast and the indigo girls. They're like,

let's how do we widen the text exactly? Well, let's say who's from here? That's coming from the lesbians too? Wow' not even hiding it. What I love is the I think the graphic for that is, um, a lesbian climbing a mountain or hiking while they play Closer to Find. I can't it's so much it's song is it really is? They're all good songs, but this is what you know.

What always bothers me is like when when someone's songs being used and you have to listen and you're like, do they know this is happening like like like whenever, like there's like the r N c um like whatever, and then just like, Hi, yeah, you can't play my song at that. Like I feel like that's a slippery situation. Very that's not what you meant for it. That's not the life you wanted it to have. No. No, I

don't know why I misplaced Stone Mountain. Well. I think it's because they named a thirty Rock episode Stone Mountain, where Kenneth goes back and it's supposed to be rural, and I think they named it that because Donald Glover was on the staff at the time and wrote Mountain. He is from Stone Mountain. He went to like, Uh,

I didn't know his Stone Mountain experience. Um, it was like ten years after mine, but it was almost exactly alike in that, you know, you go to a school there a lot of white kids there, you know, and then uh, and then I think he went to like a performing arts high school, and my sister went to that performing arts high school like years before. And so when I heard him tell a story, I was like, this month, I'm about that. That's my life he's talking about.

But yeah, but you know, I mean it happens when you're one of one of four. And he probably still had more white people in his orbit than I did. In mind, but I leave the chat by that feels very alienated. But La, you and I have had very um what I would consider and it's completely my fault. I remember we've had I've had a conversation with you about the the the layout of Atlanta, and I was like, my sister lives there and you're like, oh, yeah, how where And I was like, Dunwoodie, and I think I

saw the light leave your eyes that exactly. It still counts. The thing is still counts. Yeah, when when you say metro Atlanta you really mean the top third of the state of Georgia at this point, like it's so it's big, it's so spread out. It's a lot like l A. It's not as spread out as l A. But the vibe is, the vibes are similar. There are no borders. Yeah. Yeah, in l A, I I still feel like there's still a vibe where it feels like someone was murdered in

every other house. But like in Atlanta, you get an idea as to why where's in l A. You're not You're not out in l A now, are you? No, I'm in I'm in Brooklyn. I thought, yeah, it's God. I just feel like you were always like whenever we were having because by the way, we should just say get ready for the end of this episode when Shelia does that. I don't think so, honey, because you were one of the best. I don't think one of the best. And I feel like whenever I had to book a

show I was. I always thought of you because I fucking love you. You're so funny and I just feel like you're the best, and you did we was was Chalian on team matt Our team Bowen in the culture War. I think she was on my team, right, I think so? I think yeah that was blue Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. Yeah, that was it. We've been talking a lot about reviving not as a as a as a perhaps because it's time that Bowen and I finally face off again once and for all. Yeah, I think so.

I I think the streets need that. The streets need that. Wait, speaking of the streets, speaking of the streets, the sesame street of it all? Who is the biggest legend? Who? You're a cookie? No, we know that she's a cookie. I do like cookie Monster. I It's tough because you know, they're all my babies. They all taught me how to read. I like, um, I like snuff Snuffy that he can

just he just kind of somehow skirt skirts in and out. Yeah, and people are never really questioning appropriately what he is, what what's happening? You know? He brings a little sister sometimes and um, now I remember when he was just big birds friend and no one else saw him. There was the time that he was only big Birds and

they thought Big Bird was making him up. And so so Snuffy would show up, they'd hang out, someone would walk by, Big Bird would go, oh wait, I'm gonna go grab you know, Gordon, and then try to get Gordon to come back. And when he did, Snuffy had to go somewhere, and so everyone's like, okay, big Bird, and so that was very frustrated. Gosh. So there was a full arc for minute for a long time where a big Bird, You're you're going crazy, what do you see?

No one else can see? Yeah, Like I think their first like ten years that they were on it was it was like he was an imaginary friend. And then they they made it so that, um you did. Everyone did eventually meet Snuffle up A guess right, he became corporal, Yes, But I, um, I there was. There's a book that's like an oral history of Sesame Street, and I went to a reading that the author did take questions and I asked, what how did that switch happen where everyone

met him? And why why? And it must be asked? And the author explained to me that oh, around the time that they decided to make that switch was when um children were being abducted, and so they wanted kids to feel like adults would believe them. So they made it so that people could now believe Big Bird because he you they met Snuffle up against and I was, yeah, I was like, whoa, that's deep. That is not what I was really really really kind of crazy that that

was that that they had to think that. But I'm glad they did, because I definitely was a child going nuts every time they never got around and meeting Snuffy, just screaming at the TV, like right there, and he's he's simply, he's simply, She's a big hairy elephant. Come on, And my dad going like, Chilia, it's okay, yeah, if this isn't real, what do you mean it's not real? And he's like, okay, you have a very good point. This is real to you. Yeah, are we ready to

call snuff Leophagus a wooly mammoth? Always sort of ready to say that he's not tusked, he's a hairy elephant. Yeah, he's just a hairy elephant. It's okay. Yeah, you don't have to be categorized differently. Because you're a hairy elephant. Yeah. Here's another thing. This is a very deep cut. If there are any other Sesame street people out there, they will know what. Okay. So there's a lot of talk of Burton Ernie as a couple, right, I don't think

they are a couple. I'm actually I'm willing to believe that they aren't. Everyone was very upset when when the when they created was when I started. Yeah, I think they're just friends and roommates. Like that's the vibe I I get from them. Um, but there's uh there there are a couple of construction guys named Biff and Sully and good and I think there's a couple because one of them speaks for both of them. And I'm like, look at that trust. Look at that. Oh my god,

it's not conflict. It's not conflict based. No, No, it's just you know, I forget which one talks like Biff trust Sully to you know what I mean. And when they don't agree, it just takes a look and then the other one's like all right, I hear you, and then they I really like, that's the couple. I think that is that's really the couple we should be paying attention to fascinating to think about. You think that it's

not that there's no gay represents station on Sesame Street. Now, we're not popularly looking in the right place, right, And it's actually queerer to for the for the for the for the, for the queer representation to be sort of tucked away, to be in its own pocket, right right, Um, I think it's it's too obvious, it's what people want because then they feel comfortable just loading it all on

Berton Ernie. It's got to be them, right, You're right, because they're they're well dressed, they sort of you know that they have the sort of very straightforward ones tall, one small, that whole day. And also you're you're saying, these two the Biff and Sully, these are construction workers. Yes, I'm looking at them. They're they're in a mask job and so therefore you know, no one's looking at them like gay. Yes, they're looking at the wasps of the

class issue. It's a class it is, it is. But I mean I feel like if you really see how they interact with each other and with others, you'll see you'll see the love, You'll see where the how it's how it's held together. This is the nuance that everybody needs. I'm not I'm not even kidding. I'm not even kidding because I'm looking at Biff and Sully and I immediately a flashbacks. I've seen them together. It's a it is a beautiful relationship. What, however you want to characterize it.

Biff is the chatty bottom, Sully is the cheer, is the chill top. It actually is functional. It's it's it's this is this is the analogy that Matt and I have been loving lately that a lot of people have been using in terms of, you know, couplehood, couple of dumb flower gardener. One's the flower, one's the gardener. Oh that's nice. You're not getting that with Burton Ernie. Maybe you're like, oh, Ernie's there, Ernie's the gardener and Burt's

the flower. But I don't think I don't think that applies. Yeah, what I what I would say is that I don't think that Burton and Ernie are a gay couple, but I think they've jacked off together. That's what That's what I'm willing to say is that I think it's gotten

to a especially during quarantine. I'm sure something went down with Burton Ernie during quarantine, so willing to say maybe they're not in a committed relationship, but I think things that things have gotten to the point where we've explored it, especially after they hear it's um talked about so much. It's that thing of when it gets implanted in your own head. It's like when people are like, well they won't they about celebrities, and then they're like no, no, no,

But then it's like, you're gonna think about it. You have to. I mean eventually, uh, you know David and Maddie got together on Moonlighting, you know what I mean, Like it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. I think this is such an I rall maybe, but I think there's some movie pitch here where it's I've always wanted to do something with with puppets, but like to like like some fastimily of Burton Ernie in the

movie world are roommates. It's completely blatonic. Their whole lives decades, they've been platonic. And then it's mixed in with the real world. And then uh, they hear in the news media that the creator says that they were meant to be gay, but then the workshop says that they aren't. So they're caught in between these two truths about themselves. And then what do they do? And do they fall? Do they fall in love? Do they not? How did they truly feel? You know? Yeah? But when I think

that's good, I think it's really good. Should we all do it? Should be I'm happy to drive, I'm happy to have us all make it equally. I'm into it.

I really like that. Okay, that's good, the idea of I'm having to think for themselves because they didn't have to before because they were told by it, They're by the person who made them and by the workshop what to think because they didn't actually have brains, right, But now can I just say, like, I don't I think that because there was an understanding of its Hob that you love Cookie, I don't want to take the opportunity from you to talk about Cookie because I actually I

am on record on this podcast as Cookie being my favorite character because I believe that Cookie is unapologetic about what he wants. Absolutely, Cookie, you know exactly what he wants, and he wants Cookie, And I think that that is important.

And I think it's about taking space. I think it's about urgency, and I think it's about it's about showing up every day and knowing your purpose and I I and I also think there's a little bit there about you know, impulse control, because sometimes it gets a little crazy when Cookie, when Cookie gets Cookie, when he doesn't isn't allowed to have Cookie, you know what I mean, Like it's crazy like Cookie, it's good at acknowledging it. It's usually pretty good that just being like you gotta

you know how I am Cookie. Yeah, it's about emotional m management, you know what I mean. And I actually really admired that time when Cookie he was trying out veggies. I remember that, Yes, he was trying out a lot. He was trying out veggies and he was trying out um rap and because he was rapping about vegetables, and that was that was a lot to take in. Um, that was a lot to take in. He was going in a like a Rundy m C movie, which is true understandable. I mean that's yeah, but um but yeah,

but you know, experimentation, right, That's what I'm saying. You gotta do it. You have to keeping an open mind for it, absolutely, but Cookie is also someone who has really stood the test of time, really appeals to all sectors in every way. Doesn't love Cookie. I kind of I sometimes that it jars me a little bit, But I'm kind of into the confidence of Grover, the quiet Grover confidence, like, yeah, he's very much whatever he's throwing himhimself into. He's just like, I mean, I'm the cutest

monster here. Let's do this. He really is. He's the best. He's the best looking monster to me. You know what's interesting, I've taken it upon myself to google people were pulled about who the favorite Sesame Street characters were, and I have to tell you it's kind of a runaway. It's let's just say this is like a small sampling, but of a hundred people pulled, Cookie Monster was by far number one. Followed right on his heels is Elmo, and then Elmo was trailed by Big Bird, who's trailed by

Oscar the Grouch, who's trailed by Grover. And then it's kind of like a collection of everyone else, but Cookie really runs away with it, and followed by Elmo. That definitely makes me feel good because Elmo. Elmo is a struggle for me. Elmo is a real struggle to talk about that. When he appeared, it was a sea change for Sesame Street. I feel right, Um, he showed up around the time that like, um, helicopter parents showed up,

do you know what I mean? And and a lot of activities after school showing up and just a lot of Elmos showing up, being like three or four and speaking about himself in the third person bothered me. He required a lot required, I mean, and he just he came in. He just it was too much. He felt a little selfish, and I'm like, all right, that's how kids are. But then I remembered he's not gonna grow out of it. None of them do. And but I don't know what the lesson is to learn from that,

and it just I don't know. It's sometimes she and he took over. He got Elmo's World in no time, And I don't know if that's just really, you know, industry jealousy on my part of just I want to be able to come in and take over a quarter of your show after, you know. It stuck out to me as a child to growing up when Almo's World first came around, I was like, who does this person?

Who does this monster think he is exactly child? And I'm not to get show busy even further, but Elmo constantly playing to camera and it's actually annoying, constantly checking out with camera, like what should I do? It's like, just do it. Don't look at don't look at that. Don't you're spiking. You're spiking. You're looking at the camera. Stop part of this. I'm a kid. I can't make decisions for you. You have to make distance for yourself. I'm here to watch it unfolds. I'm not here to engage.

You're gonna you're gonna do what you want. You're gonna do what you want, Elmo, and then if it's not what you should have done, I guess it's a lesson, all right. And also, don't forget I mean, let's not forget one of the most lethal toys ever created. I mean that did actually hurt kids. It was shaking and and the kids were shaking with it, and also the parents were fighting each other, so you know, I mean, the violence came from on high all the way down.

Have you seen this first Have any of you seen this firsthand? Like a child being so deeply pathologically obsessed with Tickle Me Elmo, that if you took it away from them, the parents would fight. The parents would actually have a meltdown in front of in front of me. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is this is this is different, and actually Elmo is bringing a cursed energy into the space. Yeah. Yeah, it's too much. It's too much, too soon with Elmo. It's too much,

too soon. And I don't I mean, I'm not saying he's gonna spiral, but you know, there are a lot of young There are a lot of young muppets just around the corner, you know what I mean. Coming up, it's gonna be show girls. Yeah, I mean as soon as that No Me muppet comes rowing through, it's a wrap. You're going down the stairs, baby, see you in physical therapy, Elmo. This EP title of that is nom Me Malone Muppet, Malone Muppet, that know me Malone Muppet. Honestly, when when

when that was out? When when the Tackle Me Elmo was out? I remember it was on like it was on like um like like local news. It was like you won't believe the stampede, like eighteen injured and Tickle Me Elmo like early release it was like and then there was that culture when we were little of like remember every Christmas there would be that one toy, that one toy like it was if it wasn't tickled Me Elmo, it was the Ferbi or it was like. And then I remember when when there was like the video game

console wars, like when PS two came out. Now it's like still happening. I guess I'm not as keyed into it, but I remember like feeling like a responsibility as a child almost to not ask for that toy because yes, you don't want them out there in the street fighting. No, No, I mean you you get that they love you, but you know it doesn't have to come the fisticuffs. I trust my mother with a lot of things. I don't trust them to be throwing hands for toys. No, not

at all. When I was when I was a kid, Okay, when I was a kid, the big thing, um We're adoption dolls h by Xavier roberts Um in Atlanta, and they became he sold them and they became Cabbage Patch dolls. So this was just before the Yeah, there's a whole there's a hospital Babyland General in North Georgia where you can go and watch cabbage patch dolls being born from the cabbage patch. You can watch them being plucked from

a cabbage patch. The cabbage pat kids, real cabbage. They were, Yeah, they came from a field and they're I mean like there are people who were hired. They had on scrubs. You could go and they'd hold up the doll and then then you adopted one of those. Until I'm assuming you told the pa endemic. This place was open and open for business. And so the whole thing was that you could get um Xavier Roberts, I guess he signed

the butt of every doll or whatever that was. And and so that before they became cabbage patch dolls and were made widely, they were like locally in Atlanta. And when I say, these women were knocked down, drag out every night, a body count every night on the news for these adoption dolls. And my mother at the time was just like, I didn't even want an adoption doll. But she was like, well, I mean, my baby gets

adoption dolls. So she knew a woman who could make them. No, she had she had homemade adoption dolls made for me and my sister, which she named for us because you have to fill out paperwork because they've been adopted, and she name with our names and then had little baby dolls made for those dolls, like it was a whole she was giving us a whole family. And I was like, I truly just wanted books, like I love you, but yeah, I hope you didn't fight someone for this, and she's like, no, no,

I know a woman, you know, fight someone. I killed someone. I took someone's life for this. This is a blood had so so it made no difference to you whether or not it was an authentic Xavier. It didn't. And and actually that has served me well, um, because I'm not big into name brands, and I think I admire that. Yeah, so luckily um, And I think that it starts with that adoption dog it does. I think it's it starts with this toy culture where it's like you gotta get it,

you gotta get the hot new thing. And I think that's like I've been like fully brainwormed by that long and like it makes no sense. Yeah yeah, And also for again something that's not that good, like tickle me Elmo, it's like, you know what it's gonna do. It wasn't like the Ferbie where it was like, you know this Ferbie, could you kind of get it? With the tamagotchi to the furbye, these things that were popular in the nineties that like you were like, oh, well that's going to

develop a little bit of a personality. Is gonna be a sense of responsibility. It's like you get that you can engage with it. The tickle me Elmo, you tickle it, it shakes, that's it. Yeah, Yeah, that's it. That's all it. But you know he's he's a simple creature after all. Like that basically, you know, he's just throwing anything. What if I just laughed a little. Yeah, I imagine Elmo with a cigar, like in a corporate room, coming up with ideas on how to you know, get these kids money.

And well he's like he's meeting with HBO. Now he's like, I want to funk on camera. He's like almost like I want to fuck on camera, and I want to show to I want to show to be raw and real. Yeah, And they're like, I don't know. We were thinking was maybe a show where like you go to the water park, like you know, you feel sad because you drop an ice cream cone. He's like, no, I want to fuck and I wanted to be guys girls. He's like, I want to show everyone who the Elmo really is and like, okay,

maybe we'll circle back. I want to do key bumps the real thing. He's like almost like have you heard of the Case Special? The Case Special? Man? But what what is Elmo? Like? Hi, like, what is what? What is a tweaking Elmo? Do we want that? I want that doll? Give me that doll. This is another show we're in development on this podcast. There, we're truly pumping out there reness. There is something generative about like Jim Henson,

anything Jim Henson. You're like, there are so many it is so like like it inspires so many different things. Is is that your relationship with Jim Henson? Are you specifically no, I am, I'm I like Jim Henson stuff. I'm I definitely love the Muppet Show and things related to that, you know, I mean because that was just like weird vaudeville for children. Yeah, so amazing sketch. Yes, So that's just a lot of like how I figure out.

That's how I figured out, like comic timing, and you know, I'm like, yeah, I love uh you know literally waka waka like as a child wa child. Yeah, like all of that just the corny ist jokes. Well, there was nothing funnier than when Miss Piggy would say when she would say you were on the floor every every time,

name another legend. Miss Piggy was it before it? Okay, absolutely absolutely and also really one of the most iconic divas, like the diva's no do you have to time that Miss Piggy Yeah, yeah, and fully accepting of like just the various looks, the looks, I mean, you knew what what what era we're talking about when she had like the barber streisand perm um, you know that was lucky. Yeah. I was gonna say that woman would be in Bob

Mackie garments. It's wild. It's wild. Uh. This yeah, a puppet things that we the general public would have to like pay thousands of dollars to even look at in person. Miss Piggy was draped in it. Yeah, swimming, her whole vibe was a fainting couch, her whole it was. It was Mariah before Mariah. Absolutely, the influence there is, Yeah,

there's something meaningful here. Yes, absolutely, but there's something meaningful here where It's like if you were to like walk Miss Piggy on the runway at a fashion show for like Gucci or like Christian Cowen, like, it would not be ironic. It would not be like Pappa. It'd be like, oh my god, that's miss Piggy. Yeah. Absolutely. Victoria Beckham wouldn't crack a smile. She'd be like, I like the hem on that if Miss Peggy was walking down she

was like, that's really interesting. We're going to get six of those exactly you. I mean, you may get the you know, with pas. She may see that she's thinking about a smirk, and that's really and that's that's the highest praise you can get, is the thought of the maybe of a smirk. She's like, I like the humor of having Miss Piggy on the runway, But most importantly, I like the way she was wearing the clothes and

the clothes weren't wearing. Huh. That's really the vibe. It's a very good accent from from you, from you, the accent King sketch legend. Oh my god, said ration for your consideration. Wait, we have to ask Sala because I do think this is. I don't want to foist onto you the Sesame stree because I'm sure this has happened. This happens very often with people, as I'm sure they like are begging you to talk about Sesame struck. They'reing I that would be and I love it. I do

love it. I do love it. But we're gonna we're gonna ask you, what is the culture that made you say culture is for you? That made you say culture is for me? The formative culture, pop culture, whether it was music, books, film, television. It can be Sesame Streight. Again, we can keep going down this path. It can be

other things. This is. This was a tough one. I thought about this a lot because I knew it would be I knew it would be a music video because music videos are so important, right, So it was hard. I I narrowed down the two music videos and I didn't want to do obvious choices. I wanted to think of ones that really did like hit me in some way. Yeah, you got a zig when you're supposed to act right, And so basically, there are two music videos and I just revisited them to make sure I'm not going crazy

and I'm not they really did. They really do kind of have a hold on me. Uh. The first one is, uh for my aesthetic for aesthetic reasons, um the Cruel Summer video by Banana Rama. The whole thing. I'm trying. I've been trying to do that for so long, and I'm I think I'm there. I think I'm there, But it's you know, yeah, I mean, so are you? Are you an overall's queen? I'm not an over I I'm

not yet an overall's queen. But the where the pants fall like they're a short pant with a white sock and like a sensible shoe, a sensible flat they're either kind of pleaded, so they're kind of bagging. Just that whole age, it's kind of you know, shirts are disheveled, hair is a mess, but there's a red lip and you're just constantly fussing with it. You cantention casual. Yes you can't dance, but you can walk to the beat down the street. That's me. That is me absolutely walking

to the BA down the street to the Brooklyn Bridge Park, right. Yes, yeah, it's absolutely because I before that I was super into like uh Cyndi Lauper and boy George and um David Lee Roth from Van Halen, you know, all the classics, all the camps camp. But I knew that those looks weren't sustainable, right, you know. I had so much face washing, you know, like really the skin care of it all exactly. But what they were doing, I was like, I can do that's that's doable, and you can match you know,

you can throw some leg warmers in there. I'm big on leg warmers, so um. So I definitely was just like, this is my this is my look, well, this is back this this whole athetic. In fact, the last week I on the podcast during the recording, and it's because I'm like, I'm fully re soaking back into this authetic that you're discussing. And we'll we call this a drop crotch. I guess where it's just how how low there I mean in the in the images I'm looking at like

talking about the video. Oh yeah no, no, they're just a baggy pleated pant. I think they're just baggy, but they still sent you a little at the bottom. I don't, it's just it's a whole thing. I showed it to my uh. I showed like a clip of it to my roommate earlier, and um, I was just like, I think this video might be kind of why I am what I am, and I just kind of sent him a clip and the immediate was like, oh yeah, look at where those pants ball. Like that's absolutely and he

knew his eye went to the pants yeah immediately. And he's also like considerably younger than me, so he didn't grow up with cruel summer. It was the first time he was really seeing it and he was like, oh, yeah, that's absolutely your essence. So I feel like I was nailing that. We love. Yeah, it's so interesting to like to think of baggy I just said baggy clothes are back in, and then the baggy Queen herself this week, Billie Eilish, was like, just kidding, I'm in lingerie now.

So again she's zigged when she's act No, she's doing She's doing exactly what she's supposed to be doing. She's she's nineteen. She's willing to let you see cleavage. I mean I remember, and you know it's it's clockwork at every free um white girl or anyone with any proximity to white girls growing up, you have to make that decision. Are you Betty Page, are you Marilyn Monroe. So so

she's she's making that decision, she's doing that. And then as soon as you hit nineteen, not eighteen, um, because eighteen, yeah, you know, well at eighteen, if you've been a baggy person like your teen years, um, and you're you're you're a woman, and you you're you've been wearing stuff over your your chest was probably big and you don't want anyone to see you. We're in big clothes. Um. At nineteen is when you're like, no, I'm ready. I think

I'm ready. So she's I mean, she's absolutely on track. When I saw the cover of British Vogue, I was like, yep, that's absolutely I flashed back to me in a cat suit with a see through baby doll dress at nineteen, when before I was dressing like you know yeah, and probably saying and probably saying, I'll never dress like, never look like that. Not what Billy had been said, so interesting, and I will, I will say, just for the sake of this point, not in like a gross way, like

big natural. She's got she's got big natural. Yeah, so she's going to move awkwardly with them for for a little while she I mean, she's just going to be like I mean, I guess they're out now, I don't know what to do. And she hasn't figured out she she's got the look and that, you know, she's got everything made for her, but she still doesn't know yet what to do with her face, do you know what

I mean? So she's still so she's still kind of like sullen youth while giving you bombshell from the neck down, but sullen youth. And it's like, I'm like, man, once you get all that together, that's going to unlock another thing for you. I hope you will be ready for it. But I see you fumbling with the keys right now. I see it, perfect see you, And I can't even like I know what's going to happen. They're going to be a good Jillian thing. Pieces about is she even

ready to do this? And blah blah blah, And I'm like, didn't we already go through this like we do almost every When are we going to understand that? When? Uh? When when a girl hits like nineteen twenty and she starts to do these things, it's not an acting out like it's it's part of the journey development. It's part of the development. This is all. This is absolutely how this should go, and we should treat it with grace and not like shock, like oh my god, how dare

she put on a tight T shirt? No, this is what this is what we're supposed to be doing. Yeah. Yeah. And also I don't like the way people are treating her now where it's like, oh, she said she never do this, she's selling out, Like now what what is what is the message? It's like, you know what, like shut up? Please? Also let women dress however they want. How about how did we not see this coming? She had the nails on for two years. She's been telling

us all those T shirts were expensive st shirts. Yeah, yeah, she was gonna show up in a course. Come on, she's wearing like the Gucci and the off white and everything, like she knows fast. She understands fashion absolutely, She's it's not that she doesn't know what she's doing. It's that she's moving into this new sartorial thing edit where now she's like unveiling something that we have not seen it

for yet. And I think it's very exciting. But I think the blonde bomb show look but still like the sullen face is actually an intentional sort of choice choice that she's mixed. And it's like, oh, because it is. Because Matt and I were at Universal Studios last week when she came out with like, you know, the album and the trailer for for the single and all that, and we were like, wow, this is kind of something

we have seen but haven't before. And then the British road cover, I was just like, oh my god, like this is this is very calculated. I don't mean that in the pejorative. I mean it's very thought out. Yeah, she's that finitely moving with intention with it. And I was watching um where she answers questions for Vogue and so she's still she's sitting on a couch. It's perfect everything, and then they show like a celebrity asking her a question and then her face so alive and animated, and

it's just like, I mean, that's in there. That's in there too. And so I mean when she gets to Screwball comedy Dame, you know what I mean, when she's a superstar, she's got I think she's capable of a lot, and she also has I think that she has such a gravity and she's always had such a gravity since

the beginning that I think, um that that was. I think why when when when we saw the photo of what her new aesthetic was for this album cycle, we actually laughed because we thought, oh, this is so smart, like the way that she was like now blonde, and she turned to camera, looked dead in the to the camera and was like basically saying fuck you with her eyes. Like I kind of thought, oh, maybe is this a comment like I don't actually want to be in this,

but I am. I think we need to hear more of the album to find out if there's if there's actually something going on. It could be anything. I I still think the jury is out on what is being said. I think that. Um the they had just that very short audio of the title track of the album, Happier Than Ever, where it's like when you're when I'm not with you or something, I'm happier than Ever, and it's

very like it's very lynch Ian. It's very Lynchian, that perfect very and so I was immediately just like, what I need to hear the rest of that song because that's a banger I can tell already. Um, So like I hope that's where I mean if she wants to do torch songs, she could go that way, she could go full on pop up. Uh, she can keep murmuring into a mic whichever one she wants to do, and it'll all still makes sense. But I mean, I'm I can't wait to see what what is next. But it

also is just like, yep, we're right on schedule. We're trucking along. Let's see, you know, let's not try to derail or with thoughts of like how could she? Of course she could we all do. This is happening in every neighborhood, every neighborhood, there is some nineteen year old who's just like, I'm gonna get the longer acrylics, do you know, And I'm going I'm gonna I'm gonna branch out in some way. I'm gonna wear a crop top.

It's happening to all women of all sizes too. So I don't think that it's not everybody is doing something where they're just they they're trying to switch it up because it is a time of extreme change, you know, until the Saturn returns or whatever. But yeah, but you're coming about her face too, like it's all they're like, you're surting. This is such a weird thing to reference,

but there she loves the office, as we know. There's a video of Rain Wilson like meeting her and she is so genuinely excited and delighted in surprise that you're like, oh, so like that's like the essence of her in some way where she's just like actually like a very animated person and she's funny and she's she's got jokes and she's she just does her bits and you're like, okay, so this is like a very manicured facade. Yeah, and it's gene and it's genius. Yeah. Yeah, I watched that

documentary that was on I still have it. It's it's pretty good. It's pretty good. There's a scene where she meets Justin Bieber and the way that she plays it was very touching. It was very touching. It was hilarious but also very touching. Um, but also like what do you do in that? What do you do in that regard?

Like when you meet someone huge, you know, you just however you want to act and you try to play it cool, but then you can't anymore or you know, so lose all faculty, And how do you if you know, you're losing all faculty on the inside. How is that being as how do you pull it together? And then how do you just let it go? And you see her do both of those things. So it's really um.

That part was like maybe my favorite part, just like seeing someone trying to keep it together and then also losing it and like just you know, that is the dichotomy though, isn't it? Though? Because something I watched a little bit of it, and I not because I didn't like it, just because I only got to see a little bit of it. But I thought one thing, the number one thing I got from it was she's a kid.

Like she she's she's young, and I think that there is like a lot of there is a lot of depth there and a lot of gravity there and a lot of genius there, you might even say. But she also like her personality is she is a kid or

she was a kid when this was filmed. Then, so that to me was not it's it's almost weird to say that was the most surprising revelation revelation from it because she is young, like literally on paper, she's a she's a young person um, but she has a kid youthful vibe and I thought that really read that really came through. I want to know what what was the second music video that you second music video is um

self Control by Laura Branigan. Okay I'm not familiar. You might have to educate, Okay, so um, Laura Brannigan had a big hit song in the eighties called Gloria and yeah, I think yeah that one, and then her follow up was a song called self Control, which I think was like a a cover of like an Italian pop song, I believe. But but the uh, you know, and it's just about it's just your basic song about a dude who makes you kind of lose your control when he's

around and all that stuff. But it's also about you know, being out at night and uh mystery and this guy and you just can't control yourself when you see him. So the video is kind of along those lines as well. And it's literally what I thought being an adult would

be like. So it's just you get dressed up and you're off the shoulder sweater dress, and you you walk the streets of New York which are clearly inside and um, and you encounter a guy with a full mask on a jabberwocky mask and um, and you you then follow him to an underground uh like orgy of some sort and everybody's in unitards, which I also thought would play a very big part in my life. I thought dance craving was going to be the reason for the sea,

that's what all adults were doing. And um, and you know, you end up hooking up with this man of mystery and uh, it's just very seemy and you end up and I guess maybe a New York apartment with lots of dropcloths everywhere. Um, and then uh, the guy has his way with you and uh and then he disappears into the night, and you just think fondly of it, and then you do it all over again. And I thought that's what being an adult was like, and then

I really forgot about it. And then I spent a lot of my twenties and thirties doing just that, like like dressing up and going out dancing many times a week. And then you know, it's just like in underground clubs and just like, yeah, we're doing it. We're adults, let's you know, and it's it's a wild video. It's my eighties that you know, what I mean, just I really thought that's what and it had such an effect on me. Well, I was just like, yeah, this is absolutely what being

an adult is. Like, I have a couple of questions.

These are incredible ends and these are incredibly answers to the question, by the way, But um, okay, So when so in your twenties when you were going out, was there some background context to what you were doing where you were like, I am doing this and it's fulfilling this desire in this fantasy that I've had since I was a child, where I would I'm doing self control or or is it was that later the realization came, the realization it was implanted, but it was not conscious

Scott Child, Yes exactly. Because I started going out, like while I was still in high school. I would go, you know, out the clubs where you you're supposed to be this age and you're under that age, but you look cool. You know how it is, you're wearing all of the black necessary. Yeah, come on in, come on in, you're fine, and um, so I definitely brings and so right, yeah, you know what's up? Um, And that's tough because when I was going out like as a teenager, a very

strict uh cool person. Dress code were black and white striped stockings, real white. Yeah, that was that. That was tough, but it was necessary, preferably thig highs if you had him, you know what I mean. It was a tough hey man, it was a tough time. We all thought we were sushy. We know, we were susy and or base she's you know what I mean. We all were here, we all

were depeche mode. We knew nothing and um, but yeah, so I just continue to do that, and at some point I just remember seeing like people writhing around on the floor, like I'm standing up against the wall and I'm watching people dance in the club, and I'm like, wow, I've been doing this a long time, want you know, out here dancing and also watching people dance. This is kind of wild that this has been my life, that I really look forward to this, like I yeah, and

then it is it is nice. It is nice. It is nice, and I miss it and I'm um, I do, and I I would like to get back to it. But I moved to New York from Atlanta and I never even I just came here and immediately started doing comedy like the reason you moved was comedy, So do that. And then I was starting to get to a point where I was like, I should try to see where people go and you know, not their heads to hip hop or something. And then you know, the whole the

whole place shut down. I was like, Okay, sorry I had that thought. I'm sorry, everybody, I'm sorry. I know it's all back a fun summer. It might go to an outdoor lot or something. You know, there's there there, there are safe ways to do, you can find. It's out there. It's out there. Um My second question, really, and I think you can answer this very quickly, for both Cruel Summer and Self Control, did the music really matter or was it just purely about the storytelling and

the aesthetics of the of the videos? Both of them are both of them are bangers. But I think for Cruel Summer it was the aesthetic and um, self Control it was both because Self Control is a banger. It really goes, it does. So I will say the aesthetic from Self Control that I actually think is still a look but I know no one is doing it isn't off the shoulder sweater. I think that is glam. That is something from like the eighties, I guess early nineties

that I I actually think is is stunning. Is just a one shoulder moment and like a sort of what would you call this, like an exaggerated turtleneck, you know what I mean, where it's like folded down, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, I think the exposed shoulder, one one exposed shoulder. I am about it. I'm about that. I think I think it is still like a slightly classy thing to do. I'm like, it's it's like retro.

But I don't want them to say that timeless. It's timeless, okay, Just it relies like just an ease with all surroundings. Like I'm so chill at this, you know, at this party, at this wedding. Most Confident Award. Yeah I I can just I'll just show you a shoulder and it means nothing. You know, this is place or this is like complete glitter it, none of it. It doesn't matter. Yeah, I'm so chill. And it's classical culture. It's classical culture, you

know what I mean? Hey, honestly, it is. It is that. And I used to you know, I used to always like be because I don't know maybe this is like a you have a good you have you we I think we all have good classicals in this room, but I do not like that I had a pronounced clasical. And then like when I got into my twenties, and like we wouldever whenever, we would do like like whatever bone and I what I would do a drag thing like what happened every now and now like remember night Soap,

we wore those like we were wearing those. We were wealthy women in the eighties. Yes, And so it was dynasty with the reference. And so I was looking at my classical and I was like, oh my god, this is the this is the Carrington Colby clavical. This is exactly this is serious. This is a period clasical. This is exactly right. And now I can move on with my life. It's so languid. It's just you know, like every you're that close to just melting everywhere. It's just beautiful.

It's so graceful to me for the reference. This is a reference that Matt will appreciate. It's wildest dreams. It's wild thank you, okay, it's a it's a Taylor Swift song. It's it's our shared Okay, alright, understand, But it's also a language. It's a languid song. Yeah, it is a language, but it's it's I think one of the most active langue with songs, certainly in the Taylor Swift canon, maybe

in the pop music canon, as in the Last Yea. Yeah, that's kind to be languid and also active and intentional. That's hard. It's a tough line to walk, it is. There's I don't know. I feel like we're losing some of linguidity. I don't know, or we're calling it vibes. I don't know. So where do you stand on like the vibe music versus like like like music that hits where where? What's what's your deal? Here's I like a bridge? So I wouldn't mind if we brought back a bridge

or two, you know what I mean. I think I wouldn't mind if there was more. There are some people, like some vocalists, where I'm just like, oh, wow, you sound great. I'm gonna listen to what you've got, And then I'm like, I did a song end like bridge. Yeah, there's nothing that's really kind of you know, we're putting a lot, We're putting a on the vocalist to come up with the melody, and maybe that's not necessarily their thing, and we need to bring in someone who can stare

you know what I mean. Like sometimes it's it's just not I need a little structure. I need something to react against. And a bridge is a great way to like really rile up emotion. Absolutely, I mean so you would actually love to do you like Tyler? You know what, I've never really messed with her. You try messing with her, understand, because she is a bridge queen, all right. You can tell she loves you, can tell she loves writing them, and she's even said, you know, she's like, I love writing.

She's a bridge first, bridge forward artists. She loves safe for me to move in with her lowercase album can I Can I move in with lowercase records? Or the lowercase records are actually ones where she's being experiment more experimental structure. She's doing what a lot of the new the New girls are doing, the new kids are doing where they're array sing the bridges altogether, or the songs are very loose and ambient. Okay, that's great pop music.

It throws back to the late eighties, early nineties and it's very that Phil Collins thing, but she does big bridges. It's like epic bridges and that. And I would also say reputation, a reputation to reputation goes hard a lot

of great bridges and great bridges. But the thing I think nowadays is because the songs perform better on Spotify when they're short, they cut, the bridges have gone away in popular music today right now, their bridges are absent because they like a lot of tracks and short songs, and that's what gets so that it streams better, so that there's more so that there's just more better streaming numbers. That's a shame, because I really do like a bridge,

you know what I mean. It's just there's there's such a power in you know, even if you're not doing a modulation, just at least give me a little bit of a switch, you know what I mean. It's yeah, they're fun. There's so much fun to sing in the shower, whether or not I can hit it, like um oh the bridge to Pieces of Me by Ashley come on, waitst second, come on, and you did not just go there come through with that? That is a beautiful I love that. So yeah, how do you know everything I'm

about to say, am I obvious? And if it's written on my face? Great? Ye? And then she gives you the chorus into the bigger chorus. It's that kind of pop song where it's like not really designed to be performed live, it's kind of be meant to be performed live so everyone around you can sing it with you. It's that thing of relatable queen hashtag can't really sing

the halftag made of hooks. Um ye. Yeah, she just needed to nail it like that one time, and they're like, we will fix it in post and then because I hold to hold the mic out from this point on,

the audience will get it. She may not have even made it through the whole yeah, and also noticed she's not it's not there's no vibrato one yeah, it's she's just hitting a screaming so every it's so everyone in the audience who's a thirteen year old f A G G O T and their girlfriends twice live one pre SNL funk up one post I hung with her, screaming it along while their eventual prompt is on their back. The girl that you are on the track team with shout out to Jessica to me, but yeah, that's the

real truths. Yeah, yeah, that's a that's a great bridge though. Whoever was John Shanks and Kara dio Guardy were the writers? Really? Okay? Oh wow, yeah that's culture. When she when Karen Diaguardy was hired as an American idol judge, I knew her from writing that song so funny. She was featured in the Ashley Simpson Show, right, okay, I do remember that. Yeah,

that was also. I was surprised at how much I enjoyed that, although I thought it was I thought it was odd that like, um, I was just like, well, I understand that you're old girls sister, um, but I'm not sure the girl sister culture. It's a real culture. Number thirty nine, Ashley Simpsons. I understand girl dot dot dot, but I just I was like, it's very baldsy of you to assume that we care enough that when you die your hair black that we're already do you know

what I mean? We didn't know what led to yeah, the black hair incident. She's just like, I've dyed my hair black, so you know that means you gotta take me seriously. And I was like I mean, I guess, but this is like episode two. Yeah, I'm a rocker. Yeah, so I alright, fine, wrist wrist band, whatever whatever it is we're doing. I guess that's all right. Sure, But but then you know she belted out that song, which

is the only way to sing it. The ods we camp be time too, but not in a way that was slanted towards like you know, uh like Iraq Bush era politics. The Iraq War was camp. That's a phone

sing Iraq was camp. Honestly, though, you could never have told anyone during the odds doing that that they were camp, like honestly, like looking back at seeing like the way Parris and Nicole are dressed in a simple life like it's so insane, but but you couldn't tell anyone they weren't the coolest chicst people in the world, right right, Yeah it was. It was so it was just so everywhere.

That was a very rough time for clothing. Yeah, well with the low rise that was I mean, I was that was tough, and I was like, uh, like early thirties and I was like I don't know what to do here, like like that that that that possibility is slipping away from me, I don't what what why it was. It was really hard. It was very always like I guess, oh so I'm just maybe I'm homebound. Maybe I just maybe that's it. I guess we we just we we and pizzas, we make Bootleg mcgory sours at the house.

We watched the o C. Right, yeah, these are bound you know that the kind of thing it's which is every these are bound to come up. Ye bound. This can't be forever truly the word you saying, going like like this generation even like gen Z now trying to do a middle part like that doesn't mean we should be trying to do a middle part. Let them Oh yeah yeah, yeah yeah, right yeah. I think it's fine

to like it's like what was saying. It's like I had the same reaction even as a kid growing up in that time, being like how do I fit into this? Don't because I'm not I'm not a Hollister kid, I'm not from I'm not a surfer, I'm not like what am I What aesthetic am I trying to go for? I think it's fine to look from afar what's going on like fashion wise and be like I don't I

don't have to do that. Yeah, I think I think it's like an understanding of something as being commercially popular and that that literally just means it's for quote unquote, um, it's pretty much for like whatever, like mainstream like at that time, especially like a white audience, that was like watching Laguna Beach and being like, how do I be exactly at and nothing else? And that was what youth

culture was at the time. And now now I think it's like, you know, it doesn't seem so monolithic because there's not only one culture being shown back to A. Yeah, that's a that's a huge hope. That is that is a huge hope when it it comes time to go shopping for sure. Oh man, you know, I couldn't even watch Laguna Beach because they were all blonde. I couldn't tell them apart. And I was like, I don't know what this is, some sort of blonde blindness. I couldn't.

It took them adding Adrina to the yeah, and I was like, Okay, now I get it. That one's that one and this one works there. I literally needed a brunette in the mix or else. I was just like, I guess I'm not watching this show either. But right yea, and the Hills even it was hard between Whitney and Hide and and and and Lauren. It was then I had to like learn their personalities. Yeah, well or and I think war Eyeliner and I think that was like her thing. And Kristen Cavalry had like a bang like

that that horrible. Um again, this is the early last they had that all the white girls had that one big bang that's swooped to the side. Remember that it was like an up to and like a one big huge bang to the side, really bad, like an overgrown bang. Good stuff, comedy, good stuff. Um Okay, so we think

we are getting to the time. I don't think so, honey, a k A. The the sort of high point of every episode of Lost Culture where we take one minute exactly to rant and rave against something in culture that you know what, it needs to be discussed. If it's a negative light, maybe it'll be an illuminating light. It'll definitely make you think. It'll probably be negative. I mean, I don't have a good thing to say about mine. Hey, guys, about to spoil what's happened thus far in the second

season of The Circle. You might want to skip like five minutes and then you're probably gonna be okay, But sorry about that. I just had to say what I thought about the Circle Okay, so skip now, great, this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so, honey. And as time starts now, I don't think so honey. The rules of the show, The Circle Girl, the rules be changing every single episode. Why are the flops that were voted out Jack playing Emily and Lisa playing Lance bass so badly?

Why are they still eligible to win? They were blocked? And then you had Cat and Mitchell blocked. Ok the I Candy is g O and E and yet they're gone, Like come on. Also, I don't think so, honey, that the gays are the villains this season. As River and Courtney, I'm sorry I cannot be rooting for you because you guys were the reason why my queen Tyre Alicia is not there anymore and Tera Alicia did not get the credit.

If you want to know who's singing on right now, it is de Lisa all the way, and I know my back Trevor Delisa Trevor all the way. And if they have some fuckory go down that fux her over, I'm gonna be pissed because I don't think so, honey. I don't trust the rules. Let the rules be simple, no twist. I don't think so, honey. And that's one minute. We're we will bring on michelleby to herself to and I will have to. Netflix is making me drag the show that our friend hosts, and I don't like doing it.

But all I'm saying is, if you're blocked, you're blocked. I don't like any reality show that brings back eliminated people and then just they're back. They don't even earn it. They didn't even earn it. Lisa had the goal to be like, I'm playing as Lance Bass and when they asked for her reasoning why Lance Bass was playing, and she said to do an in synct reunion tour, which was the worst answer she could have ever done. Jack fucked up because his makeup was terrible. That mannequin. Why

are they both still in? Why are they still in? Not? But I will I think I think this season finales on Wednesday. Perfect um. But I binged. I I'm not. I'm not a binge person. I did the whole thing in five days. I was like, this is a phenomenal. Yeah, I absolutely will maybe maybe maybe I'll record a little thing at the Miate is a spoiler alert for everyone

that hasn't been watching. But to me, it's just like, sometimes I get so frustrated because it's it's you see who is playing the best game, and then they throw a twist in there, like Courtney being the joker. What the fun was that Terrelesha was playing the best game? Deleasa is playing the best game right now? Courtney and Lee are just like, okay, so so there's a catfish.

There's like a guy in his fifties maybe early sixties will say gay guy who's playing like a gay hit guy like guy, But Matt, I don't think he's cat fishing him. Not well, he's not. He's like getting like he's getting like phrases around like youth. He's literally flying under the rail ways that are insane. I'm like, I'm sorry, but if I, if I were to really think about, if everyone just slows down for a second, it's obvious

that Lee as River is a catfish. And to be honest with you, sometimes Delisa slips up as well, because she does get a little she gets a little feminine with the way she talks as Trevor just to touch. She gets away with it because she gets away with

because she's like, I'm a dad, I'm a dad. I'm a dad, like like yes, and also it's you know, you know, I think Terlely she might have sucked up a little bit too in the pictures she decided to show of herself in the second round because very filtered pictures that made her looking a little bit like a catfish. And I was just like, it's so interesting when people decide to play as themselves and they seem like catfishes.

That is a interesting comment on how people view themselves on social There's between your self perception and your Yeah, before we go to yours bow and I want to know if you went on their well, you I think would have to play as someone else. You could not play as bone Yang, not necessarily. I could play as myself and just be like I think they would know who you are. I would be like, I'm here to It's like Chloe like, so this this this girl from Too Hot to Handle right hard for Chloe too. Chloe

is great. So this girl from Too Hot to Handle is now on the circle of this season and some of the and some of the contestants are like, oh my god, you're that girl from Too Hot to Handle, and she's like, yes, it's me. I don't think it's at it. I don't think it's adversely effected her. I think I would play as a hot girl Summer. I would play as hot girl Summer. I would play as like, I just think because this is hot girl name Summer,

your name Summer, Yeah, Summer Lacroix. At that would be my character, Summer Lacroix, not at all, Summer, very believable, And all my pictures are all my pictures are of Greta Um. But basically this is I am not confident enough in my in my own ability to get myself across on social media without without without like engaging in weird, like try hardy things for social I think I would I would feel more confident as a Catfish character. I think I could remain more consistent as a character than

I could as myself. Honestly, I think it'd be more likable too if I were not myself. That's crazy. Is this therapy? I think the producers tell these contestants ahead of time because to speak a certain way over the circle, because I mean usually, well, all these messages that they're sending to each other through this virtual it's not how people talk dictation, it's not people to talk at all. That there's like message, Hey, Queen, love the way you

played the game today. I just wanted to tell you that. Um, when I was a child, I was touched by a relative hard emoji too hard on me blue, hashtag got your back hashtag sisters who were touched. So so it's just chaos. It's pure care. It's not normal communication styles at all. And the hashtags are like not real hashtag. It literally is like hashtag both born in the four on the fourth of July. It's like, it's so stupid,

it's really insane. No one's ever said hashtag concrete angel, Like I don't know what the hell that means Queen queen anyway. And and yes, these two gay men on one's one's that um guy in his sixties we mentioned, and then the other is this like um is this is this barbed gay dude who loves Nicki Minaj and Taylor Swift equally, which is a conflict of interest, But that's culture loving. It's a conflict. Here's the thing, Bowen

that's us, both of us, that's us Courtney. I think I would love in real life the star, not the girl for not room for this. Gay would love to tour with court with Courtney like a like a bar, like you know, best of friends. And the reason is I could not play as myself because I know I would be Courtney. I know I would be Courtney. I know I'd be just evil. I'd have to play as someone else. Anyway. Yeah, okay, loving, thank you for giving us a space. Would love it. I'm totally going to

give us a shot now. I'm giver start start with season two, okay, so start with his and two. Wow, fascinating. Yeah. I fell off after I fell I fell off like three episodes into one. I was like, this isn't for me, but too, I was for some reason, I was looked

from the beginning. Maybe alex is one better now because you can see really the argents um and can't wait for the finale because of course it's Michelle's moment to shine because she hosts three un finale and she's really it's really a voiceover gig for her all year and then she really comes in the finale. You understand, all right, so I don't think so, honey, time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Your building is not wired for

veries and fives. Bitch. Now I have to settle for middle tier spectrum internet that are gonna nose dive three months into my contract with them, and they'll say, oh, it's not a contract you can do month to month. I don't care. Give me the fast stuff, mainline, the inner, the ethernet to my devices, and now I gotta put it upstairs because my building is not wired for spectrum that optimally either you're not gonna you're not gonna perform building surgery on my apartment in order for me to

get a fast WiFi connection. And the Internet should be a fast and free for everybody. Water like water deprivatized WiFi deprivatized Internet. I don't want. I don't want Salve from Flushing to come in and and make me wait for minutes so that he can like, look at look at my building's guts with binoculars in my laundry room. It's actually very vulnerable. And that's one minute. Can we say this is just the truth, And I'm sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news. To this

wireless internet company. But Spectrum, you don't hold a candle to Verizon Files. You just don't. Have you ever fucked with Spectrum? I have not, But I grew up in a Comcast situation. Like I'm coming from a Coma, so that is that's the same. It's the like it's they want to send a guy to wire something in my house. And he had a nameplate belt buckle, what the buckley and it was Mark and it also was like kind

of neon ish around it. So the Mark was like in you know, metal, but then there was like neon led lights around it. And he was just standing in my living room just kind of like, uh, this is nice. This is the nine place you got here. This is really nice. And I'm like, yeah, Mark, I'm gonna need you to do your thing and go do your job please E G TFO. As they said when when you said that your building was not fitted for Verizon files,

my heartbook for you. As someone who also is in a building that is not fitted for Verizon Files, I just Spectrum is so not it. But I actually don't know. But who is to blame because we love Spectrum for giving us the access, for not having for not getting us to ask the question will my building be wired for it? Do? Or do we do we direct the ire towards Verizon for for having a be like masonry specific or whatever. That is weird, just uh, you know,

I guess I guess you're right. They're problematic, but it's unfortunate because they're so goddamn good. So I never had Internet like that before in my life. I'll never happen again, never, never. Okay, alright, so listen up. This is the point in the show. Slia does her fucking thing and her thing. At least this episode is going to be I don't think so, honey. Are you ready? I am ready. I knew it, I knew it. This is with Sharps. I don't think so honey.

Her time starts now. I don't think so honey. Paramount plus streaming site logo, it's so lazy. It's so you're the last one out. Okay, So you're seeing what everybody else is doing, right, you see what we're doing now. It's it's just the most simple blue with the mountain and the stars. Yeah, we know it. We've known it all this time. You're not going to shut it up for us at all. Uh, Hulu has got a nice little green and that's been changing colors a little bit.

Um Disney. I mean there's blue as well, but it's gradiated, you know. And also and they're Disney. All they need is that big a S D and you got it. You know, Netflix was a big red end. But now it's a multi color. Uh, come on, HBO is doing queer coloring, like doing quick and you're just gonna come in here with this bootle It looks like Letterhead, it looks like lair Head. You didn't even try. Thank you for all the real worlds though, Yes, and that's one minute.

I will say this for for a streaming service that actually kind of comes through in terms of the content. The logo, it's it's a little bit basic. It's very but it's like they didn't even think about it. They're like, uh, just given what we normally got, we gotta do more. You gotta do better, right, And it is important that they're the last ones out. Yeah, they're they're seeing what everyone else is doing. And they still gave us just

milk toast. And you know, especially after HBO Max did the thing, because when that when that blue screen comes up and seas. But and then you have to get sound. You feel like you've unlocked something, you know what I mean, Like you're entering the domain. You get why design and aesthetic and that sonic moment of welcome to HBO Max is is important. And all of the other ones just seem like they're alive slightly because they're missing with their colors.

And that's what that's what the kids are doing. Now we've got these and there's so much going on, and it literally looks like Paramount plus just looks like a piece of paper that we've all literally flayed. It's very flat. It truly just looks like a scan like if they had just the light that came from a copier where if you're looking at a copy or that white light went across, it would make sense to me, but it would also be a little more dynamic than what they've

got going on right now. Texture um absolutely and Mattla will be two kind to correct you. I will correct you, but that is classically color blind HBO Max. Guess what the color is? Purple? Its purple, okay see and that's how you know I'm I'm real. But it's clearly like bluish and pink, like it's not just full on just but you don't have to do that. But I can't see it. It's and I have a show on it, and I literally no when's ever I But I was

gonna say, I don't think so. Only the people who haven't told you that it's not blue, who have not corrected you. I've kind of really been sitting around here on the quarantine myself. You see what you understand, There's really not really been anyone there where I've been like when that pops up, I'm like, that's blue, and they're likes so yeah, well, I mean it's definitely purple, but it's not as blue as the Paramount plus logo makes

me feel. And also they have so much to work with, because correct me if I'm wrong, But the Paramount plus is is miss thing holding up the the we're talking about the mountain and the mountain. Yes, so you'd think like they can't do something with the mountain and the stars, like how the stars go around the mountains they would do when they're opening a movie. When it's open a movie, they have the stars and then they're not nothing. It's just boop. Here you go sign here and here is

your here or your selections? So down floppy on the behavior behavior jes or flop logo. It makes me sad because they were you know, they're giving us real world again and I've been enjoying that. And uh, you know where else are you going to see Latifa as the equalizer? You know what I mean? Like they're giving us choices? So wait, have you checked in with Latifa as the equalizer? Not yet? I do, I do. I do love Dana Owen.

I really, I'm a annivers. I think she's done exceptional work all the way through her career, and I don't know if it's been acknowledged enough. I mean, honestly like her her comedy Chops in Living Single far none amazing, musical theater yes, comedy drama Oscar nominated, Yeah yeah Chicago. Oh so you know what's interesting, like doesn't get the credit for being a full on movie star above the

title movie star. People forget she has opened big movies for a long time and this show is a huge hit and only a big star can can like just instantly make a show huge like that. But the reason why all these things are popping off is because Latifa is a superstar, and you're so right. She doesn't get that, Um, she doesn't get that those flowers gather flowers. Also, her hair always laid always, and she's kind of doing something

a little different than the equalizer. Yea, yeah, I think I think she just has a good face for any bone structure, for any length, any style. I think that's also what we're working. I met her one time when I was eighteen years old, and she was she had a platinum blonde uh. Like, um, it was like a cascade happening. It was like a short platinum blonde wig and she was. She glows in person. I believe it

is crazy. I mean she was. I interviewed her. I was like for the n y U newspaper for a Secret Life of being, and so basically, um, it was. It was my first time ever interviewing a bunch of celebrities and like, um, it was like Gina Prince by one who directed the movie who I Love, I Love Love and Basketball. I really love all of her work and I was excited to see her, but was nervous

to ask a question. Sophia Canado came in and she sat down and I was like, I'm gonna ask a question to Sophia Canado, like I'm gonna ask a question. And she had a role in the movie that like was was gonna get earned some Oscar buzz? We thought maybe um, and someone said something about the Oscars because you know, she had been nominated for Hotel Rwanda and

they're like, she was getting some buzz. And I remember asking like I just jumped in there because they told they said like, if you have a question, jump in there, um, and I jumped in there. I was like, well, does it make you nervous to get Oscar buzz? Like do you think about it? And she was She looks at me in the eyes, and Sophio Canada was like, oh no, I don't think about that at all. That that's in God's plan. That's in God's plan. And I was like,

oh okay. And this woman across the table from me was like, now, did you want to resume the question that you were answering before he interrupted you? And I was like, oh my god, I'm mortified. I'm eighteen years old. I was trying to do my best. I respected her and I felt like I had like disrespected her and I was like, oh no, so I'm dispirited. So then Queen Latifa comes in, lifts the energy off off the

ground into the stratosphere, superstar charm down. She comes in, sits down, and I'm not asking her a question because I'm just too I'm just having too much fun watching her. And I felt like a flop after Sophie. So we all have our opportunity to get our like press book signed by Queen Latifa at the end. And everyone I can tell is a fake fan because they're all going up to her and they're like, I loved you in Chicago.

I loved you in Chicago. I loved you in Chicago, like all these press people that clearly did not know Latifa's work, did they, And she she literally was like thank you, thanks, thank you so much, thanks, because she just gets that all the time. You can tell these film people like only know Chicago. So I was like, I'm gonna earn this woman's respect. So I went up to her and I gave her my book and I looked down and I said I loved you in Life Support, which was her HBO like AIDS TV movie. She looks

up at me, she looks dead in her eyes. She wipes her platinum blonde hair out of her face and she goes, thank you so much, baby, and I said thank you, and we had a moment together and she signed that book and I left and it was like it was like that Sophio Carnado moment didn't even happen, and that was God's plan. That was God's plan that day. Reader, if you're not if you're not getting out of your chair, I don't think. If you're driving, if you're not getting

out of your speed, that's beautiful. Tear to my eye, tear to my eye. Latifa made my day. I hope I made her. I'm sure this episode made my day. Hello so much Hello, so much fun. And to hear what probably is going to be ten million times even more fun. You got to listen to The War Report, which episodes every Thursday, and you need to have duh. It's like, how long has the podcast been going? About like five months or so. It's yeah, it's a baby,

so it's a little Yeah. It's me and gas Store Almonte, who's a great storyteller, UM and he's a delightful um Brooklyn born uh, married father of two, like just tough guy and I am not um any of those things. And so it's just us, you know, talking crap about the news basically every week. And uh, it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. Gosh, we're in. We're all in. And you gotta follow Chile on all platforms at Silky Jumbo, which come on. That's that's a handle,

that's a handle and a half. That is that isn't that is memorable? Name? Yeah? Yeah, you know, I like lotion. I like eating and I like lotion. What can I say? What can I say? We're so happy we're here. Thank you so much. It's thrilled to do it. Thanks for having me. Oh my gosh, man, I close that every episode with the song I think I think I have one in mind. Here we go, well, the Cruel Cruels, the Cloudy Day Cloud, Sam's lack act and faally rest my head on something real. I don't like the way

that feels. So this was sort of a megamix. Yeah, I'm really shocked that how that really spoke to so many parts of my soul lost culture, touching all of the soul, all the soul, the dark parts of yourself. Bye. Two