"No Straight Art" (w/ Leland)

Is it more drinks, less food or going in on the food, and like you have a drink, you know, I mean, I'm not a huge drinker and function alcoholics. So I said, then, what what do we do when I if I want to eat brunch with my best friend Matt Rodgers, where do we go? Because we're on two different, diametrically post sides, I would say that I'm be willing to put you first. No, I mean the food is the food food. Sometimes it depends on the food.

How about that it depends on the food. But and here's the thing, A lot of these brunches now it's not about the food anymore. It's about the drinks. And it feels so asked backwards. I don't know. I feel like, what when I hear the word brunch? What I get excited about my heart gut and Llyn's is a bloody Mary. I'm like, I'm gonna have a bloody Mary. Fuck. They're better be cheese on the skewer. Honestly, I'll tell you what. I love a good cheese and I love meating my

bloody mary. Oh, sorry, bitch, A folded little thing of salami. Oh, fold up the bacon and put it on a stick bacon. Yes, all right. So here's the thing. I won't say the name of the institution, but I used to work in the institution, and I shared this with you and our guests. But there is a place in New York you can go and pay twenty five dollars for all you can eat buffet that includes one drink. You can choose a bloody Mary, a mimosa or agin us. That's a hint.

But the gag, But the gag is on with the food. They have a raw bar, So you could pay twenty five dollars getting all you can ey buffet, including a drink, and in that buffet is oysters and clams, which I'm sorry but that is a and you steal and you're someone who is a gag loves an oyster lister, and you're someone who's like, oh my god, this is from

fucking Chesapeake. You. I have had to in my years as a servitress, have had to know all about the oysters and where they come from, and what the qualities and characteristics of oysters are before we before I would love to go into it, give a quick little primmer primer on where oysters come from, what what's important in oysters? What should I look for in oysters? So oysters can come from, you know, the ocean, they can come from the Gulf, they can come from lakes. They are in lakes.

Um I personally, for me, it's like if you're going to have an East Coast or West Coast oyster choice, I always go with an East Coast oyster because I want to haven't oyster. I want to taste the ocean. I want like it to be salty, and as they say, briany, which means and a lot of people don't know that, briany means like it tastes like the ocean. It's salty. That's what that is. West Coast oysters I find a very creamy and I'm not into that, and almost cucumber e,

which is sort of nice. But I find them like gloopy and gloopy gloopy, and I like salty and salty and malty. I and I Gulf oysters from the Gulf of Mexico, I don't think so, honey. They taste like the mud, the mud, and it's actually really culture number eighteen. Golf oysters. They taste like the mud, the swamps and the marsh. Now I but so it doesn't really matter

where it's coming from. It like like a Chesapeake oyster is the same as like a fucking Long Island sound, because as you go further up the coast they often get more salty. So I actually, whenever I have the choice and a good institution has like a heavy wide array of oysters, I will pick the furthest up so like main oysters, or even better like New Brunswick, New Brunswick, Canada, Yes, bitch,

not even Jersey, not even actually never Jersey. Nova Scotia and where island Nova Scotia coming to the stage, Miss Nova Scotia. That would be good for a Canadian queen. Absolutely, Miss Saskatchewan Saskatchea one. That's my drag name, Saskawan. I think that's a ye. Yes, If I were in the House of thunder fun that would be my first name Sea. No, it's just Saskatchewan thunder Funck Alaska, Nebraska, Saskatchewan, right, I love that. Mine would be um uh Miami, which doesn't work.

I guess. Let me tell you who and what works. Okay, we're going to talk about our guest. But do you know't I just realized what he is someone who is truly at the intersection of everything that we like to think about it drag race. I'm not not gagged drag race like music, writing, comedy, like forget about it. It's all the best of all those things. And that's the thing,

it's all the best of all those things. He is not this person who is like waiting in mediocrity like you know me, let's say, why do you do that? I'm just saying like sometimes I'm just like, oh god, I'm just like I can't even do this one thing, right, But this is someone who does all these things so well remarkable. Yeah, I don't mean, you know, I didn't myself under the bus. And you know what that really

makes me uncomfortable that you did that. I'm sorry because a lot of people look up to you to see you downplay yourself in front of our guests and listen, he just used his gorgeous voice and speaking of voice, gorgeous voice, Oh my god, speaking of voice, you go, you go. No, I'm just saying, this is a fucking artist, an artist. The credits coming rolling down. Why don't you

give him a songwriter for choice? Van come on collaborat Retreat Collaboratories, Selena Coli x Miss Selena, miss Selina and he has his own single out middle of a Heartbreak that I loved very good. He did a run Away with Me a Curly Jepson I adore. When when when someone's trying to cover a song taking a big swing like that, you better go better serve it, you better

serve and swing for the fucking fences. And he home run, grand slam, even grand slams bigger than a home run for all you gays at home for run Away with Me, like the gay song of the last five years. Come on, and also we want to stay doing all the music for the other two, which we've been talking about on this podcast. And you know, it's because and now you know it's because you're a guide for it too. I love the show and the music is so good in

the show, and excuse me. Golden Globe nominee, Golden Globe nominee for a Boy or Raise Miss Revelations. Literally such a beautiful song. Beautiful Like when I first started, I was like, oh yeah, it got me. Come on, it really got me. And this is the thing, and we're going to talk to our guests about this. But like someone who has been able to like deliver us these moments of culture, these these queer moments of culture, gag culture in the house where we are so excited you

have with us, Leland. Okay, Also, you came to game show the other night, and I was gagged that you came. I had the best time. I was in tears, laughing. I couldn't believe when you showed up. I was like, hell, Loake, gorgeous, Oh my gosh. No, I'm in New York for the weekend, and I wanted to take advantage of everything of the culture. I am exhausted, completely exhausted. So has it been just like a lot of press for the other two, like kind of just popping around. It's been so much press.

I think I've had one ten minute phone call like what how you in New York? A lot like uh more and more. One of my best friends in the world lives here. Um and I just I love being here. But now I did have some press, but I wanted to come for the premier party and just to start it with everyone. Yeah, I am so grateful to be a part of that show and everyone attached to it. And I also wanted to corner and meet Molly Shannon. Did you do this successfully? She was so lovely, so lovely.

I walked was walked like, walked up to her and was playing that game of where you're behind the person. Another conversation, and her manager introduced himself to me and uh, and I was like, I worked on the show. I would love to meet Molly. And he goes, oh, let me help you, and he inserts himself into the conversation and he looks at Molly and he goes, oh, you have a piece of lint on you. Also, I'd like for you to meet Leland. And it was genius. That's

so good. Was it her manager or like publicist her manager? Genius? Those managers are good at that, but that is such a good little strategy and to be like, oh, let me feel how about this, By the way, it was choreographed beautifully. She was She was so lovely and so engaging in everything. She is in my eyes, and I know, our an icon a comedy not not just a comedy icon,

but like an eye cultural icon. Yeah. We talked about her with Chris and Sarah, like it's it's really cool to see someone like her who really is so talented and iconic and deserves it, have this sort of like resurgence like in Chris's film Other People. It's unbelievable just as a performance, as a tribute to to Chris's mother, Like you know what I mean, Like, it's just this incredible piece of work. And she is so amazing in

that film. And to see the dramatic work that she does in this show and obviously the comedy to the show, Oh my god, it's truly just like we're so lucky that she because you know, you you imagine that like during that time of being a woman in comedy in the nineties, it can have been easy to maintain longevity and be able to stay. But just to know that she is still one that we can watch. I'm obsessed completely. She's one of the few s I know people who got her thing to be a movie like that is

a huge deal, Like that doesn't really happen anymore. And back then I feel like it was still sort of wow, it really doesn't happen, doesn't happen right like she was, she was in that last sort of moment of like essmal things becoming movies and it immediately became a cult classic. It's before it came out. Yeah, that has memes that never got the opportunity to become memes because of social media.

But what didn't happen but like the smelling the armpits that would be homework and even the at least my well Evan, at least my name isn't I'm not named after bottled water, like so funny, and the end, what a triumphant ending at the Talent Show, and like such a good movie she's totally forgot about. And to know that she's as nice as she is. Yes, oh my god, I had to walk away like I had to in the conversation so incredibly sweet. Oh my god, that is

what you want to hear. Yes, and you're having. I mean, okay, so you're you're here for press, you're here for the premiere of the other two. But also you were like in the thick of fucking Awards season right now, this is like you went to the goddamn Globes as a nominee a nominee, honey, And I was, I was. That was a really incredible night you were. You were telling

me last night about the food drama. I didn't know there was food drama at the Gold That is what I would talk about, Like, what was So if you, um, if you have to do the red carpet, UM, you show up about fifteen minute, you get to your seats about fifteen minutes before the show starts. Lights are flashing, bells are ringing or saying everyone please take your seats. You immediately you forget that you're sitting around every celebrity everyone.

Michael Douglas was next to me, Katherine Cina Jones was next to me. UM. And then you look at your table and your star struck again. And and so dinner is served an hour and a half before UM. But I took it upon myself and as a representative of my table, to ask questions, and I found the food and it's in like the back bar area. And so during a commercial break, while everyone else is running to meet celebrities, I went and loaded up two plates of

sandwiches and shared them with our table. Who was that your table? Who are you sitting with? We had uh to Fur from that seventies show Lovely. We had Lena Ray Is that Lena Weight? Yeah? And she was so lovely every so, and then there were a couple of people that I did not just recognize. Um. And then they announced the nominations for Best Animation and uh it ended up that they were the directors and producers for Spiderman. And so immediately if there was a loyalty and a camarade,

we were all crying. Our table one our table said we want and you did we win? You want? Yes, we want um. And that's like when the when the nominations came out. What I adore about my group of friends is instead of like posting uh an Instagram story of congratulations, like my friend Leland was nominated, it was we are nominated, and iould not want anything other than that. Yeah. And so you were there because you wrote the song

Revelation with Troy. Yes. Yeah, Troy and Jones and Jonesy from Cigarros UM, who I love and have loved since he did the music for UM. We bought a zoo. Yeah. I love this is a fan from Wow High School. He is so sweet, was so lovely to work with. And Troy called me one day and uh, and I was, I think I was on my way to a session. And he was like, what are you doing today? And I said nothing because I know I know to say. If he's calling, like thirty, there's four, it's for a reason.

And and he's like, what are you doing today? And I said nothing? And he's like, do you want to come over and work on this song for Boy or Race? We have to turn it in like tonight. And I said, of course, of course, of course, and uh we went. I went over to his house and we wrote the song and then into the studio that afternoon recorded the initial version of the song for them to tempen the movie and uh. And then you know there's like a lull of where you don't really hear anything, and then

you see the scene and uh. And so yeah, Troy, I am just beyond for for the many, many many things he's done. Uh. Since we started working together. But that was very special. He did not have to do that and and did, and I am so grateful for it. It's truly like that is something that has changed my life. Well, he obviously like believes in and loves your talent and like wanted you in the room. And you're like, that's incredible, so sweet, You're exceptional. So congratulations, I mean, thank you.

But you're just that thing where you're just looking around and it's all these famous people is truly overwhelming. It insane, like yeah, and I don't necessarily like get star struck. It's just it's that moment of where you see all these familiar faces and you're like, wait, I don't know you, I recognize you and so and there were some great moments and met some great people. And the table next

to us was Amy Poehler in my room. You know, those those are people that I get more star struck in from just because they were so much more in my life than some of the other like stars. But I mean Dick Van Dyke, for me, that was the one that I just lost it. I would I would have. It was a really good I mean just being there for that. Glenn Close speech had to be yes so incredible. Yeah, there was a lot of moments that were great moments.

And I also saw Bowen running around for the Golden Globes, which is insane, but just because I was out there as people were coming in and I was looking for you,

I was like, where's Lee London? But then it was just this thing where it was that same thing where I was like, oh, I don't know these people, but this is like so many This is so many famous people in one place, and I was like this is so overwhelming and like and it's I felt like I stepped into the TV Like it was truly truly because everywhere you look at someone different and it's like you want to like it's the thing of like don't stare

ever but like totally focus. I can't land on like a neutral thing like not for nothing, like was your competitor that evening? But just to be in the same room as Gaga, I was because I had to go up to the crazy Chastion table. She was at that table, like I was like this, I was within feet of one of Gaga's assistance something like a piece of some food had fell fallen onto the dress and like sort of water really stained it, and so these assistants are

like scrubbing it out of Gaga. Is just the moment to see Gaga sitting there regally like like just looking incredible, And I was like, this is that's Lady Gaga. That's like my fucking hero. And then whatever, this is all happening. But um, but my whole thing is that like the globes, like I particularly love because it's like me too. It's a comedy event. Yeah, it feels low stakes. It's low stakes, it's fun, it's boozy. Um. But I think my favorite

moment of the night was on the red carpet. There's where they like send you off to do the actual step and repeat alone. No publicist, now, no one can go with you. It's just just talent, you know. Um. And so Troy and I find ourselves in this line and uh, in front of us is John c Riley and uh no, but step Brothers. It's one of my favorite movies. Um and then uh Carrie Russell. And then behind us, who walked right up was Trag p Henson. She looked yeah, she she doesn't show up looking at

anything less. No, And so we had a good fifteen minutes of like lead time conversation before you step onto the carpet, and there's three points where you you stop you take pictures. They say shift, you move to your next point, take picture shift and uh, and so we had quite a bit of time for like Troy Tarraggi and myself to chat and she was so lovely. We were like, oh, this is this is our first time and she goes, oh my gosh. She's like, I've only

been here three times. She was so lovely, so sweet, and then uh, we let her go ahead of us on the for the photo of and because we wanted to watch. And so she's like just chatty, chatty, chatty, and then steps out and they announced her name hand on her hip SMIs Troy and I audibly screamed and distracted, like we accidentally distracted her initial moment but she loved it. But we audibly screamed because it was it was just

a moment watching the movie star becoming the movie star. Yes, yes, And then she inspired me and I had my moment and Troy screamed for me and I screamad it was really it was just that was a really fun moment. I'll tell you who else looked absolutely beautiful. I think the best dressed well I will shout out Nicole Nicole, and she never plays on the red carpet Miss Regina, kid, Gina King, that pink, that rose metallic, Oh my god, that stunning. I think new is is it knows she's winning,

you know what I mean, and showing up. She's collecting hardware, collecting hardware. Um now I okay, so let's get into it. I am just so in of like everything that you do. Talk about how you got your start with songwriting, I mean like whatever, it's so so basic, but like what is your day to day like, just take a walk through, Like how do you find yourself in the position not

even working with yes, I mean running your own stuff? Yeah, I mean I am from South Mississippi, and so from the time of growing up, I just tried to take advantage of every single opportunity, all the songwriting opportunities offered in South Mississippi, um and uh and would do things

like open up for Jesse McCartney at the mall. And I still remember like running racing to Buckle to buy a shirt before the performance, and um and performing and things like the Mrs Mississippi Pageant, I was the entertainment at the local casino and that was a big moment. That was a big moment. It was ridiculous. Um and uh. And then when I went to school, I went to college in Nashville at Belmont and there was very much a culture of songwriting there and everyone there were They

had showcases, the Pop Showcase. My mom was so smart. She wanted me to go to a Christian school and so she was genius. She brought me to visit the school the weekend the Pop Showcase was happening, and so I was that was it. I looked at the state I have to be. She knew, she knew, she knew and uh. So I ended up going to Belmont. And because they had the Pop Showcase, Urban Showcase, Christian Showcase Country, our whole group of friends were made up of people

who sang all those all that type of music. So I became the songwriter that wrote songs for all of them to perform in those showcases. So I would co write with friends and or write songs alone and uh and then would go to these showcases and see our friends perform these songs. And that was my first taste of writing for another artist. Writing for someone else and ended up through um, through the woman who was in

charge of the MISSRS Mississippi pageant. She worked at a casino in South Mississippi and uh and a songwriting manager came through one time and she gave him my information. He reached out to me. I sent him a couple of songs and he ended up getting me a publishing deal. Wow. The strangest it was not a Nashville connection that ended up getting me actually into the songwriting community like world. It was through It was through the director of the

Mississippi pache Wow. Wow, How how old are you at that point? I was twenty that it was just a couple of years ago. Yeah, But is that like a weird not weird? Is that like just like a full circle thing where you were like, Oh, this gig that I thought was just like I'll do I'll do whatever, I'll do whatever I can and in that bore fruit in this other incredible way that I will never forget her. I have to. I'll thank her in here, not now, Sharon Coleman, come thank you. Um Yeah. And then so

I moved as soon as I graduated. One of the hardest things I've ever done. Was like, leave my whole group of friends in Nashville and moved to l A. And uh, and then I thought moving to l A. Genuinely thought, I'm going to be here two months in right for Beyonce. I have a publishing deal. I'm in. It's the same publisher as her, John Platt, who signed me to my first publishing deal, signed Beyonce, signed jay Z,

signed Drake. He is a legend, He's an he's amazing. Um, and I saw, like, I'm going to move to l A and write for Beyonce. It's over. It's not like totally out of pity. I had a lot of I grew up listening only to Christian music, not by choice. We've heard that a lot on this podcast. Really so interesting. Yeah, I mean all of my first concerts. If I like said my actual first concert, it would that I count consider my first it would be Britney Spears. But my

actual first one was a Christian boy band. Called for him, for him, Yes, I love that and I'm for him. But um but yeah, so then that did not happen. I did not write for Beyonce and uh, and I would love to that is of course, like on the bucket list. And I truly feel like anything is possible, especially with the things that I've somehow been able to find my way into. Um, I truly feel like anything, anything is possible. But um no, I had to hustle

in l A. I worked a million jobs. I mean, I would say I was in l A for probably five years before I made a dime from songwriting. Wow, yeah, what did you do? I catered? I catered. Uh, I catered the Golden Globe after party at the hotel. At the hotel, what a fucking amazing, full circle thing. I'm sorry that just like, did you go over to the caters of the party and say, you guys are all revelation? Oh my gosh, I did. Actually I catered. I catered

Kim Kardashian's wedding to Chris Humphrey. Well, I am on the E special. What did it feel? Weird? Of course, they didn't tell us what we were going to, but I figured ou out. I googled it in the bus on the way there. I knew where we were going, I knew the day was happening. Um and that was crazy and uh and I had the best time. Actually, I felt like a guest there were so many servers there was I didn't but and I actually had. Um, I had the Jenner table. Oh my god, yeah, I

had the Jenner table. There was a moment where, um, where Kathy Hilton and I are holding a chair as christ Janry standing on it dancing. Everyone was It was such a lovely experience, like it really was. Earthwen and Fire was the wedding band. I mean, come on, Robin Thicke was played the first dance it was. I had a great time. That sounds amazing. Yeah, yeah, Um. I catered the v m as and my friends were not andated. I gave champagne to Lady Gaga, like I, yeah, You've

had some amazing moments, both catering and as a guest. Yes, yeah, yeah. And I made a lot of actually made a lot of my friends through catering because it's all like it's all actors or comedians or whoever. And uh, we had a really good time, and so I catered. I taught

songwriting into college for three years. Um. I was an assistant to the director of pinny X. I wrote some of the jingles songs in the background of pinan X, I like I'm I'm exhausted I have done and now that's just like three of the thirty jobs that I did during that time. Um, and then finally like but and I always thought too. I was like, it's going to work out. It's going to work out, even if it's like two or three, four or five, six, seven years,

And thankfully it did. Yeah yeah, I mean yeah, that's that's fucking how it goes. And everyone that I always UM, some people will ask, like, I want to move to New York, but I don't know how. I'm like, literally, no one knows. No one knows how to move to New York. Like you just you have to work jobs that you may not like, and you have to grind and do one thing every day that reminds you while you're there. Absolutely, that was my That was my rule

for myself. Sounds like every single day, no matter if I was busy doing something else, I'm going to do see feel like, just one thing every day that reminds you of what you're there to do. Exacts you simply make it work. When we made Troy's first album, I had a full time job and they didn't know that. I didn't really tell anyone neighborhood yeah. I didn't tell anyone. I was just like, oh yeah, the sessions at one pm on Wednesday. I will be there. I'll figure it out.

Oh my god. I would whenever I would book something, I booked a recurring thing. Uh this is a year ago. By the way, John Klazer loves Gear. You can watch it now on True TV. But I was I had to ask for work off. I was like, well and like that was like a huge battle and like they

were very very generous and like with my time. But it was like this thing where it was like I was, I had a nine to five of until like six months ago, where it's just you go and like you you might not like this version of your life yet, but like you invest in stee have completely. So then what was your form of like doing Maybe it wasn't one thing a date, but like what were your little pockets of time that you could steal, Like like what would you be doing? Like it was still just treating

myself like I was a working songwriter, you know. Um, I would write songs at night, write songs on the weekends, and I was setting up sessions and running my calendar like I was a working writer and I would take meetings with my publisher because I was still published at the time. Um, and you know, there were moments where I could tell they were frustrated because I didn't have a lot of availability, but they also understood that I was doing what I needed to do and I think

they respected that. Um. Yeah, So I would just write songs, and thankfully one of those sessions we would get paid also to I mean, I was like, I need a hundred bucks, two hundred bucks, whatever, and we would get paid to write songs with young artists who wanted to come or whose parents whose parents would send them to l A to like write song for a weekend or whatever. So, um, one of my friend Gino called and he said, Hey, there is this girl who's here for the weekend. I

used to teach your voice in Pittsburgh. Do you want to come and write a song with us? And I was like absolutely and went and we wrote a song and about realistic, like forty five minutes. I was like, so nice to me and everyone. I have to go back to work, love you guys. And that song ended up being Hideaway by Daia. Oh my god. Uh and it was and that was that I love that I love her and I love that song. I love her. She is a gem. She is so talented. I love

I can't say enough good things about her. She knows I love her and uh and so that ended up being that song and yeah, the break and shortly after that, I think, within like a few weeks of Hideaway coming out or Hideaway doing well on radio, youth came out and started doing well. And so I was teaching. It was so special and so I was teaching at the college at the time. So I was teaching a voice lesson uh and and had like two songs on the radio at the time, and I was like, okay, yeah,

that's why. Let's there's I see a light at the end of the time. How did you meet Troy. I'm at Troy through one of my dear friends, Tyler Oakley. Ty the potential I will make. I promise I will make that. We both had such positive interactions with him on Twitter for our respective antics, so I would love Yes, Tyler is. Tyler is like I mean, people through this tournament, but he's like a true connector. He connects people in

this way. I had no idea so great. So he just like he was like, Tyler is one of my best friends for five or six years. He's one of the first people I met when I moved to l A. And when he moved to l A. And um, and so I remember he said, my best friend Troy is about to be in l A. He is a new artist. You to write with him. And he told Troy the st he like, my friend Brett is a songwriter or Leland as a songwriter. You need to me. So Tyler.

I was playing shows in l A at the time, and Tyler brought Troy and we snuck Troy in because he was under age and uh, and I think he was like also seventeen. And so my friend Ali, who ran the club, uh, looked at Troy and she was like, don't you pick up any alcohol because she didn't want to get fired, you know, and uh. And so yeah, it was Tyler that really connected us and we wrote

a few days later for the first time. So anytime something special happens, like with whether Troy and I are a part of something, I always still like think Tyler because he connected those doughts and made that happen. So when you guys are working together in the studio and you guys are wherever you guys are writing, so, um, is there one of you guys? Does he come with like a general idea of what he wants to say? Like does he come with lyrics? Like how does that work?

I mean it's different every single time, as I'm sure, like collaborating with people varies and how idea starts. Um. But sometimes yeah, he'll have he he will have the title, he'll have a story or nothing and we just talk. Uh, and we just talked about what's going on in his life or my life or another co writer who's in

the room, or a story that we heard. But generally, I mean, I would say everything every single song that's ended up on an album has been authentic to him about something going on in his life, and so it will. It can also start with one of us sitting down at the piano and starting a melody maybe that inspires something. Um. We both have I have lists of titles or words in my phone, um, and so does he, or lyrics

or poetry that we look through and um. But then also sometimes it's like it's also not that deep, like sometimes it is and then sometimes it's not. Yeah, I know, I mean from I can it's it's very interesting like I do not music in the way that you do it, but like music in the way that I do it for like comedy purposes. But it's so interesting, Like sometimes the stuff that you really will work was written in fifteen minutes exact, and then you can labor over something forever.

And it's the same thing with sketches or comedic ideas. It's like the stuff that you labor over often like will just never be with these things that fly out of you. And then I sometimes I'll forget even why I thought of it, you know what I mean? Like, So, how much of Bloomer you want? Is that I did? I did eight out of ten songs, CO wrote with him eight out of ten songs, and then we worked with like Max Martin's team on some of that. It was insane. That is insane. Neither of us take that

for granted. Yeah, we had written quite a few songs for bloom and then uh, and then we took a very quick four day trip to Stockholm, and two he was not there, but his team he has producers that are amazing, Oscar Gore. They're all Oscar different uh and so yes, the Oscars, they're called the Wolf Cousins. Is

the term, like the collective. And so we were there for four days and there's not there's a little of this pressure being like, Okay, we hopefully we'll leave with singles, but also we just want to write great songs and if we don't, it's okay, like as long as we leave with a good song. So Stockholm was where you go to kind of get that and udering that trip.

The first day of writing I think it was the first day we wrote My My mid and we had that feeling and we actually celebrated by drinking champagne and eating oysters. Yea, I love knowing that Troy loves an oyster. That's phenomenal. Okay, so my my my, you're right, and you're kind of like, okay, this is It just felt special and it felt different, and it just felt very him and that's the most important thing always and uh. And then the next day we wrote Bloom Wow and uh.

And we wrote it with Peter Spenson from the card Against Oh Yes, I love the card again. Oh my gosh that working with him, Yes, I bowed down. It was so special. But Peter and Oscar Holter, who produced Runaway with Me, who produced Bloom, they were really focused on melody and production, and Troy and I were working on the lyrics, and so they really didn't know what

we were writing about. And so we were giggling in the back of the room like what we were writing about, and we thought, like, the song will never see the lot of days. Let's just have fun with it, and it's such important. It's such an important I mean, you

know what, it's a fun song. You know. We had this guy, Scott Thompson on this podcast and he is like an iconic gay sketch comedian, like back from the Kids in the Hall years ago, and we were talking to him about how you know, he had this theory where he was like, gay men can be stars, can't be stars, gay men habit have everything stacked against them in terms of these things. And it's because of sodomy. It's because no one wants to acknowledge the way that

we have sex is disgusted. And that's because from where he from, when he came from, that was a time when there was no male male representation really any media, and there was kind of an ick factor around the way that we have sex. So then so then we both tell him about bloom and he starts to get really fucking. It was emotional because that's you have to understand, Like, yeah,

and that's why I say it's important. It's because, like, you know, somebody, I was at a comedy show the other night and they referred to anal sex as a kink, and so I got up after him and I was like just singing, I said it light harder, but I was like, anal sex is not a kink. That's actually how we make love. And I was like, hi, and you have something up your asshole that is, But baby,

I was lighthearted about it. But the thing is, like, you know, that song is the first time that you that we hear really gay man singing about having sex the way that everyone else has been able to. And so that really is like a moment. And the fact that that's like a mainstream hit song, that's fuck you wed part that you created it. You created it. We explained me, like, this is it's a pop song that's doing very well. It's about anal sex. It's about gay

men having anal sex. He was speech from the bottom's perspective, and it was like he truly like this comedy legend superstar who feels and he thought, because he then it felt to him like, oh maybe things could change. So you guys, you guys like did something so cool. I'm so grateful to be a part of it too. And yeah that I think Bloom the title itself with something Troy had run in that day. From the title, that's just such a great and it's a bop. It's a

fucking bob baby. And I love the lyrics. I was when it first came out before before I really, I mean, I was just kind of like listening to the lyrics and I was like, this is like a very very sexy song, Like it's just real. He looks so stunning in the music video. The video is h my gosh

from my my mind too. That's icon insane there. It's very rare that as a writer you feel like the video just because budgets are so hard to get approved and also videos happened last minute most of the time, so it's very rare that as a writer you look at the song and you look at the video and you're like, this video like does the song justice? Um. But with every Troy video, especially My My My, especially Bloom Dance to this Lucky Strike, the video that just

came out. I mean it. It is the perfect visual component. It's no joke with my my My. I mean some I'll shade her right now because I don't care. Taylor Swift. The music video for Style is so wrong. I was like, this is all wrong. And that's how you know she's gotten like too big for anyone to tell her, like no, or maybe she just trusted whatever director that was because I hear the song. The song is unning and that's why.

But I see, like, honestly, like her in a fucking like car with the top down in Miami, honey dressed in all black having a night out and like maybe going to see her dude instead of hanging out with her girls, like I see the video in my head, and then to see her like in THEO with a blue sky. No, it's just projections on her like whatever. It's it's like there's a concept. They're fine, Oh that's out of the woods. I was thinking of, yeah, you're right,

but but it's so true. I watched My My My, and I'm like, this is it's almost like syn aesthetic. It's like this is what I saw in my mind and it's what you picture when you're listening to a song like that in your bedroom and the shower and you're like you're feeling it. Yeah, and that kind the dancing that he does, just and the shots the angles him uh in the beginning of the second verse, uh uh sparked up buzz between your teeth forget. He's upside down.

The red light is hitting him like, and he's just like it's brand new. It's brand new. It's it's brand new, and like it's crazy. We've seen so much so to be able to say that something is brand new, that's like fucking cool, like I haven't like honestly, it almost threw me back to like, like I wonder what George Michael would think of Troy, you know what I mean. I think you'd be fucking proud as fuck. I think. Yeah, Troy did an interview I think it was for Out

where Elton John interviewed him. Wow, and I mean I cry at everything. It's because it can be it can be like overwhelming in a really good way, especially when I come from a very conservative Christian home in South Mississippi, so to be a part of things like this is

incredibly overwhelming. And Uh, there was a moment where Elton Troy brought up Elton's writing partner, and Elton was like, yes, we've been writing for I think at this point like forty years and uh and Troy brought me up and said, well, I hope to be writing with my writing partner for that one and that and that killed yea, it was so special, and you know, I don't we're not writing anymore. But now I'm getting in about two months. But I'll yeah, like so this is It sounds like a stupid question,

but like what do you guy? Did you guys when you guys are like hanging out and not writing music, do you what are you guys doing? I mean, I'm just fascinated by Troy. We are we I think are very similar in that and I'm grateful we connected his friends first and his collaborators, but but we're very similar that we don't typically go out. Um I'm having I had that chapter in in l A like years ago,

but um yeah, yeah, yeah, we have seen. But that's why my phone is cracked because Matt dropped it in Weho. I just got black out drunk in who and read Damn, I like fucking destroyed my phone. I have to fix Oh my god, I yes, I have a scar on my wrist from Halloween and we have about a scar front our title about scar. Uh. But no, we just like hang out at my place or at his, or go to get sushi or very low key just and

just talking. You know. I was actually reading an interview with him where he said that he like working with Ariana and like watching her be one person and then become the pop star in a moment like you just said with Taraji before, Like that is cool and he must do that too. He's got you guys learned from Tara. We did. We all did in that moment. We we and we just did too. When he said that I snapped my hand on my head. You didn't see it,

but did you did do that? I should ask the question. Well, I just want I just before we move on, I just want like, do you what what is your hope for? Like, um, I guess I'm going to call it queer music, even though it's not music for queer people necessarily, it's music

for everybody. But like, because you're part of this and you you are putting yourself out there as a performer and you're writing for other people, you're writing for yourself like, what is your hope in the next let's say, just ten years or just the general future, Like what do you hope changes are stays the same? Or like my hope is that just good music rises to the top

no matter where it's coming from. Um, no matter who is singing it, as long as obviously, as long as the person is not problematic and promoting hate or anything like that. But I don't like, as long if someone is making good music, good music, put it in the spotlight. Yes, that that really is. Like, I know it's such a general answer, but that is how I feel, because there's

obviously a lot of work to be done. But in my community of songwriters that I come from, I am surrounded by talented LGBTQ people who are songwriting, who are who are writing songs that I adore and are like the soundtrack to my life, and I know other people's lives. So I just think if people are writing good songs, like hopefully it can have a moment. You know, one of the most prolific country music songwriters his name Shane mcinally, and he's gay, and he writes so many, so many

amazing songs. And he's gay and he writes country music. Shane is wonderful. Yes, yeah, he's so talented. So if you would love to have him, you should, and he would love to be on I know that he so if you don't follow him on Instagram, in immediately follow him. His kids are hilarious, he is hilarious. His husband is precious. Yeah, there are so much fun there you go. Number one is Kelly Kelly. Yes, yes, yes, uh yes. So he's amazing.

And not only is he one of Nashville's arguably could be the biggest songwriter in Nashville, but he owns his own publishing company. He's a writer signed to him, so there are hits that he may not have co written, but he's still making money off of because the writers are signed him. And I that's something that I respect, is that he is building an empire. There. There's the moment on in Nashville. There's Music Row, so there's two one way streets um that run parallel, and all the

houses are publishing companies or record labels or whatever. So you know you've made it as a company when you buy your spot on Music Row. And Shane's company is called Smack and he bought the most beautiful office renovated at everything on music row, and that is such a special moment. It signifies a lot, it signifies a shift. There's a lot more evolving that needs to happen. But of course, but it's it's just it's great, but it's cool.

It's it's cool to see in country. I mean, the man writes for everyone everyone, men, women like and it's just like it gives me hope for country music because I always and you know what it's when will we see a gay country music star? I don't know, but like it gives me hope that at least you know, we're hearing like where it comes from here and those yeah, and those those country stars are at there, yeah, but like you know, they're they're just it's a tough genre.

It's a tough genre. But um, I so what but with your with what you're saying, which is like you just hope for good music to rise to the top, is it that you don't want it to be bogged down by a million other things that have to do with the marketing or just with the way that it's presented or completely and and just exposure and what gets covered, just like not a song getting so much exposure because who the artist is, even if it's a bad song. So it's just people, uh are just giving great songs

an opportunity. You know. I looked at do you know how they do those like year end Spotify lists, like it said my top female artists, I forget who actually was probably Kim Petris, and then my top male artist. It was a tie between Troy Savon and Bradley Cooper because I listened to Shallows so many times and like worn out the Stars Born soundtrack, but Troy was tied. So it was and it was like your critics choice moment.

It was very that Troy is the guy. Ironically, Troy's the Gaga and Bradley's the Glen right in that situation, Yesaga is not the Bradley. No no, the no that's Troy has written all over him. Oh my god. It's gonna be kind of like you can go to these awards shows and like if you are at this time, we don't know if it's up for an Oscar. It could be the song Revelations, but um, not to drinks. But it's cool to kind of go to those things and know that something like Shallow is in the race,

which is like winning everything. We went with such low pressure, right, I mean that we were just there to have a good time. Yeah, it was so and that's fun. But think about this, like in the history of music and in like queer songwriting. I keep calling it, you know, but you know what I mean, You're gonna look back on this. People are gonna look back on this and say, oh my god, wasn't it so cool that Shallow was nominated?

Like it was like the category sister of Shallow was like Revelation by Troy by leland by Jones, like like you are in that story. Like that is part of the narrative for this year, which is such a I think a landmark year for for representation for a film for like you know, it's like you be Human, Rapsody, green Book, I mean, for for whatever you think about these movies ban Raapsody, green Book, Shall Shallow called it Shallow,

Stars Born, um Boy Raised. It's like these are all queer movies and like and also you know, outside of that representation across the board, I mean, Black Panther, Black Klansman, I mean, it's overall, it's been an exciting year. That's why, like once they started naming the best of the year. It's like they picked that, you know what I mean. Sometimes it's like come on people, sure, but we'll see how it checks out anyway. But um, I do want

to ask one more thing. So with Boyer Race, had you seen the movie and then you guys write the song or was he like, this is what the song is? We saw the specific scene, um and uh, and then you know, we knew what it was about. And obviously Troyes in the movie as well, so you had the

experience already of filming the movie. Being very familiar with the script inspired yes, and we knew what the director Joel wanted wanted from that moment that we looked at the materials for the Conversion camp when we were looking writing the song, and the last time I've seen those materials was when I had been like sent them as an option, and so that was that was very strange. But also it was like, wow, I it's however ten years later and I am a proud, like out and

proud gay man, and so it was a lot. Yeah, like this is the thing is that you just have to confront whatever the darkest things are. This is something I keep saying, you just have to confront these things or else they will just eat away at you. I'm realizing that I have not even really had an honest conversation with my parents about going to conversion therapy. Well, I think both parties have to be ready to have

that conversation. I am pretty ready. It's it's it's I think I think balls in their court now, and like, but that's where I am too. Yeah, and so but like that's like the power of like what you're doing, you know, It's like it's like it's like that's making me think about that. But it's like bloom is this landmark thing in the culture. Like like I know that you say that you get overwhelmed at this probably sometimes, but like that is incredible already what your career and

it starts conversations. I mean, like just you know, someone like Nicole Kidman being in that movie, Oh my god, I'm very grateful for that because you know, Nicole Kimon can go on any talk show she wants, and she can bring this film to the masses. And you know it also has Russell Crowe, um it has a choice of on in it. Lucas had just who is who

is becoming a big deal. And Jill Edgerton, the actor who's not a small actor, who's also now this great director, and so just this big name talent like giving everything they have to this kind of film so that people can hear the story and also to know that it wasn't the only film about conversion therapy out this year there Cameron Post and um, you know, just to know that we're really tackling this, because I do think it's a scientology esque situation where it's like, we must get

rid of this. I mean, it's people's lives. As of a couple of days ago, it was the law pass to New York banning conversion therapy, but that means now because the phrase that I've been saying is it's still legal in thirty six states but not thirty five, which is incredible. But yeah, I mean, and you can if you're you have to find out if you're living in

a state where conversion therapy still legal. And never forget that our vice president at this moment, you know, he's someone who thinks this works, and his evil life is I'm sorry, but teaching like whatever fucking art class or whatever at schools that do not allow LGBT people at all to be involved all and never stopped talking about this because it is not normal. I understand so many things about this are not normal, but this is a

threat to our community in a big way. It's one of the biggest I mean, and thankfully you have come out on the other side. And like some people don't some people do not, don't don't. And that's in the film and in the book. Um also, imagine teaching an art class with no queerheads. The worst you have bad pictures. Imagine the art fair terrible. I wouldn't hang it up by my wall or any I wouldn't hang it up on my worst enemies wall. There you straight art? No

straight art. That's another maybe title. There should be no straight art. And Leland's joining in. Okay, you must, we must Okay. Now I think it's time to ask the question. It's time to ask the question. Here we are. The question is Leland, what was the culture that made you say culturist? For me? Which is what is the formative? And you can be multiple answers, formative pieces of media

or just your environment. It could just be like your upbringing, um uh, in a in a religious setting where it's like these things that moved you into the place that you are now, your touchstones, touchstones. Um, it was very much The Medley and Mrs doubt Fire where he is being made a woman from the moment the door opens, he knocks on the door Uncle Frank and at Jack and he goes, can you make me a woman? She goes, Honey, I'm so happy, and then the Medley starts and that

was it. Oh my god. Then you know, so that was It's so funny because I feel like you're either like a Mrs Daffire person who had that movie, Are You're not? I, for some reason, didn't watch that movie until much later. Dave Mazzoni though, are you know he's

Mrs Daffaire bitch? We my best friend Stephen and I were walking up and down Upper West Side a couple of days ago and quoted the entire Yeah, people can do that, but truly that that montage, that montage of her becoming and doing all the transformations and Barbara, that Barbara streisand moment and all of that, just that, and what I love about it is, like I said, I

grew up in a very conservative home. That is drag that is a dragon queen and for some reason that snuck in the house was allowed on board with it. Yeah it was Robin Williams. Yeah I think so. And so it was that it was the Birdcage changed my life a Robin completely. And then freshman year of college, I had my first boyfriend and I told my parents that I cannot come home for fall break. I have so much studying to do. And my first boyfriend and I snuck to and we drove to Chicago from Nashville

and stayed with my friend for the weekend. And she sat us down and showed us the movie Hedwig and the Angry Inch, and I had never seen anything like it, and it blew my mind. Those songs stuck with me. And recently, which I cannot believe, I had dinner and have become good friends with Stephen Trask and uh and just like it's just insane, that's all, yes, and so

it was all. It was all like a lot a lot of drag moments that like that, uh define or like that started that inspiration of um, I guess where

I'm at. The culture is just that, don't know. Stephen Trask was John Cara Mitchell's collaborator on music and also John caman Ritchell is like in it with he's he's like he's like he will he's coming back in this way that like sort of like he has his foot and like a comedy the contemporary comedic thing where it's like he'll come to like like he comes to like birthday parties and ship he's so funny, he's around and he's like the coolest person in the world. Um, that

those are whatever I had. I didn't mean to name drop John Cameron Mitchell, but but but I didn't. Now, Um, and now I want to go to that birthday party and now you're crazy for you to talk about birthday Bay parties, birthday, birthdaythday parties, birthday exactly, she would succeed. Um, those are so great. There's such good examples. I have to admit. Yeah, I'm not to miss his doubtfire Gate, but like I understand it to be like I didn't watch until after my wind like the critical window had

closed on. Yeah, I'll tell you what I think is iconic about it, Like yes, yes, yes, for me, Sally isn't my top five. My Sally to me is iconic. She's in my house. What's the moment, what's the moment the whole time, the whole time, the whole time. Genius. Imagine imagine imagine being the person that slowly that line reading that to that. Oh my god, she's unbelievable. And and you know, the thing about Sally is like, what I love about Sally is she never disappears. She's always

Sally Field. But you are never mad. It's kind of like Meryl Streep too. I find that Meryl Streep doesn't disappear. She's kind of always Meryl and whatever. She's always Meryl. And I love that, Like, you don't need to totally disappear from me. Sure. What I also love about Mrs dolfire that is that it addressed divorce, yes, which I really haven't seen, you know. And and growing up in Mississippi, you you are told that divorce is not divorce is

a sin. But then I'm like, no, Actually, if you don't like each other anymore, you should get a divorce. Still work out? Actually are often then they do nowadays. And also the only thing with that movie that I would criticize is that there's a possibility that they get back together at the end. I think it's fine that they're divorced, absolutely let them be divorced, because that is not the reality for lots of kids. So I can go back to a movie from Oh my God, I

have notes there you go. I mean sure with the starting one of the best comedic actors, Manu and in two your formative movies, I mean, and Hook is one of my favorite. Yeah, I mean I would even say I wouldn't even shout out the bitch in Jumanjie. I wore out that VHS from Yeah, I did too. I remember all the previews that were on at Flyaway Home, miss Anna Paquin. I love the music in that movie was amazing, yes, miss Anna Paquin and also Flying all

the Geese. Who was the father in that movie? I think it was Jeff Daniels who gave an iconic speech at the Golden Globes. Yes, yes, yes, Jeff Bridges Wait wait wait, we're gonna sorry, sorry, sorry, Jeff Daniels was in fly Away Home. Jeffries as Chris Pine looked on. Look, there's so many Jeff's, so many Chris is too many, too many Chris. But I love all Christmas m as someone who people often point to and go Chris right, And I don't know, but yeah, no, but yeah, that's

the right answer. But yeah, I might as love you, Chris. I think my favorite Robert Williams is honestly, and this is so pathetic. It's not like he's not fun in it. Don't say like Insomnia, no, like what I love that movie. How when when' the last time you saw it? Like like fairly, not fairly recently, but like five years ago because my parents had never seen it, and it was like, this is something that like the whole family can enjoy.

He's certainly a fantastic very He's not funny, but he's not but the whole thing of like like his wife farting in bed, like oh yeah, he's what a what a beautiful moment of just comedic, like he's there grief mixed with comedy, mixed with all this stuff. I was just like that is like I mean, I watched I watch Hooky around you. Absolutely I have to have a

movie in the background, and it's typically that hook Okay. Interesting, you have to have a movie in the background, not when you're working, not when I'm working, just like running around the house. I have The Housewives on always, and I need to do that more. I just my background ship is like cooking videos on YouTube, which is dumb. It needs to be actual culture. It needs to be cooking is culture. I know cook Uh No, I can

make a couple of things, but that's it. I have like a cookie recipe by memory, but it shows my priority memory. But I think that's your Yes, yes, yes, Leland. What would your book title be? Oh, life in the fast food Lane? Okay, let's get into fast food baby. I am fresh off Whole thirty. I the world is my oyster all the way I am. I wait, what you're already done? I was? I told studio. I was like, I'm just gonna give it. I'm gonna stop it. Okay, okay.

I saw the cutest thing. I went to visit my friend Steven, who lives here at work, and he introduced me to some of his co workers. One of his co workers had flowers on her desk, and I was like, oh my gosh, what's the occasion. Congratulations? She said, my girlfriend sent them to me because I'm halfway through Whole thirty. That is so sweet and so sweet, so goddamn hard. I was immediately furious that I don't have that type of relationship. Yeah, I just thought it was really for

half not even just half beautiful. You need encouragement in these do you need encouragement also? Like but I will say, like, have you ever done like do you you don't like diet? I had. I did the Keto diet and it was actually very successful. If I still go into a mode and I stick to it and it does it worked well. I heard it was a good one that that works.

You know. You get to the thing about the Whole thirty is I went over to our friend Suti, who was also doing a Whole thirty at the time, and she made like a whole thirty beef stew that was like totally compliant with whole famously love a beef stew. Yeah, I mean my favorite beef stew. Beef constipated for days. But it's work, but it's good. And also this stew was good. I needed a little salt, as things often do. But you know, as acially rule of culture, things often

needs salt. It's a really culture number fourteen. Oh my god, bitch, I always say for it, it's real culture number ninety six. Things need salt. But this whole thirty compliant beef stew, it's missing a lot to the beef. It's missing beef. The beef is there, but also it's just it's beef. That's beef. Is there beef, it's beef. Mushrooms and potatoes. Okay, fine, but for me, so I got the mushrooms. This is

what I need to have. Maybe it's to be a wine, a wine based, a red wine, red wine, Yama, reduced red wine, um, be stock whatever, and then with with a fond and well not fond with mine. I have mine with a fond with no no noes. Needs to have beef of course, potatoes, carrot, there they are. I was waiting. I was peas cheez. You gotta have fucking peas in your beef, stupid bitch. And some rose a couple of spigs of rosemary maybe if you're feeling fine. Oh of course Celery. Oh my god, I live and

die for Celery. Oh my god, you burned calories eating fibers. I know. That's what I know a few things fiber for those of us out here trying and trying and trying to have gay an there I mean I bloom maybe maybe not how much Celery? Have I A wow sequel that's actually a real cut number sixty four. I maybe maybe not have much salary. Have I eaten favorite? Okay, go to fast food place Leland, Taco Bell, Taco Bell, Yes, we have to start with this Taco Bell rasuer, Oh

my Bell. So when Tyler and I first became friends, he was driving this like Ford focus. I also had a Ford focus that one chapter in my life and this is not this is not the place where you come to like I love this focuses. Yeah, he always sponsored American idols. Oh you're right. He had a jetta. He had a Jetta for him and I got in his car. He opened up the glove compartment or the middle of the middle secon and there were about four hundred Taco Bell gift cards. Shut up and I got

I got chills from Taco Bell corporate. What And it was like yes, yeah, And he was like should we go to Taco Bell? Well, you don't bloom after talk mean at your own risk, right right right? And so there was a chapter in my life where we would just go get taco about, Oh my god, and it

was so nice and never paid a time. I used to Holy shit, I used to go to talk about and my order was because you know that taco bells off joined with pizza hut, so I would get I would get to chicken case citias and a little personal pizza, and I would be able to just house that. Now at this day and age of my late twenties, honey, now never never, I can probably handle one chicken case citia or I can eat too, but I I can take a leave the pizza sauce in the chicken. Yeah.

And also like when they're a little but they can't not sometimes with these taco bells, they don't cook it all the way something. It's not trigger. It's just like when I when I go to get a c I want and is my ship charred wange it needs to be charged. I like it like I like my marshmallows charge charred. I like it like I like my swiss um that is I like it how I like my Pokemon. I can I tell you something, you can just what I always get doesn't matter what, It doesn't matter what

else is in the order. Must get two plane bean burritos every time I go, Yes, you hate this. I just don't like a bean burrito because I know what's gonna it's gonna do to your fucking system. But what you don't know about is when he's had, when he's been eating things that are going to disagree with his stomach. The noises that come from Bow and Yang are similar to that of an angry Egyptian king. Now, I that comes out of hanging out with him at your own risk.

Now after he's eaten, and just forward and some fire and some fire packets, fire sauce. I'm a mild, you're a mild mild. I like the taste. I love the taste of them. You know you don't want the pekans. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. I like spicy. I'm a spicy queen. Chaotic. I'm chaotic, good spicy, Okay, that's how I redentify, but not super spicy. Come on, come on, but I don't want to sweat. When I go to Chipotle, I always ask for mild and hot, and sometimes I get an

awkward eye. No, it's fine, whatever I asked for mild and medium. Mild medium queen. Okay, we have to talk about the other two in your involvement with it. Um, Like, like the whole the show is predicated on, like this kid becoming this huge pop star and having these songs and like you ended up writing these like very good songs, Like what was that? What was that process like where you would just with it in the room with Chris and Sarah coming up with what these songs were supposed

to be. They would send me lyrics. They sent me lyrics they worked on very almost completely flushed out, um and uh because as you said, like they come from an incredible background of writing songs and um and so then I would take the lyrics and make them hooky and put music underneath them, and then send them a couple of options of like here's how you here's like a verse option. It all like comes down to the chorus.

So I would send you know too, three four or five versions of different choruses using the lyrics that they had sent over um and uh. And then we just went back and forth and they were so amazing to work with, and I would write the songs and then I brought them to my friend Gabe Lopez to produce who produces a lot for Brandy Carlyle. Oh my god, sorry, sorry, oh my god, Belenda car Live, um and uh and yeah.

So we would just try different things and it was so much fun and I wanted to there were a lot of complexities to it because Chase's career in the show had to evolve. Yes, so the songs had to get better. And that's very relative and strange. It's like, so have I write a better song now so that

fits um? But then you know, it's like I want to have a one Republic Americana moment for my Brother's Gay for that song, and then uh, and then later in this series the series, Uh, he has a like a big performance that we had to strip back one of the songs um and do like reinvent it. You know when people going on the Words show and they reinvent the song with like if it's like an up tempo song, but they do it with an orchestra, you know.

So we had to have one of those moments, right, oh, yes at the and then we did a bunch of remixes for My Brother's Gay, So we did the Gay Club remix, all these remixes that was we did, Like that was my favorite episodes. But my Brother's Gay episode, as I think and hinges on the song, Yes, the song is doing all the work, is moving the plot forward.

That's amazing. You like you were you you were writing songs that were like breaking the story that we're just like moving it along in this way that was like so so fun, I can't believe it. Seriously they I mean, we've talked, we talked about Molly, Shannon and Chris and

Sarah and all these people. But too, I had gone to m Saturday Night Live last when last January Troy performed, which was an iconic performance, so special and uh, and I truly was the person that was like, this is my like Mecca, this is the holy grail of comedy. This is I recognizing and and a bucket list as a songwriter. You you're like, I can't speak for everyone, but my dreams were like hopefully one day to have a song performed on the Grammys, but Saturday Night Live

is is the place. And so to not have only one, but like to have co written both songs that he was performing was such a special moment. Alex and I sat in the audience on the balcony area and just cried and it was so special and um and so I remember being there and telling Troy and telling our friends we were with. I don't know how, I don't know like on what, but I need to work with these people somehow, And it was three weeks later that I was like, sitting in an office with Chris and

Sarah was so crazy. So yeah, I I love and I feel like my like, I feel like everything led up to having the capability to work on this show because it's that type of writing is very specific. So working on drag Race for now four years and then writing pop songs, this felt like the culmination of both of those things. Well, it's just a perfect intersection of like your passions and your interests completely so special. So let's talk about drag Race because you've got to be

on cam and the Helper. So can you give us a little bit? Who are you? Who are you working with that drag Race, Like do you have interactions with rou Yes, I mean I I uh rue is just amazing. I feel so lucky to be in that family and to be around um uh LGBTQ people that come from a generation where I mean they are just comedic geniuses and so anytime I can be around them and absorb that energy and those stories and that comedy and I

love it. Um yeah, and I mean drags is. Working on drag Ras is truly I work with um My co composer Freddie Scott, who is amazing, and it is one of the hardest things I work on, because you'll work on an extravaganza, yes, which usually consists of twelve mini songs of varying genres that have to be equally competitive for each queen, that have to have an opportunity for each each queen to have a moment if they take advantage of it or if they do it the

right way. Um, and have to have different voices. So ali X has been has done some voices for me. I do a lot of the voices. On Kardashian the Musical, I was Courtney Kardashian and in the final cut and the final at it oh yeah, oh yeah, god um and uh and yeah. And then on Bad Girls of Her Story, ali X was the voice of Princess Diana. I don't know that Alix did all these. I'm very shy. Oh my gosh, I cannot believe. You know. The world

fell in love with my eyes. Pink, pink pink. My favorite favorite, favorite thing too, was was Alyssa Edwards as Bang Yeah, we were so great. She killed it Detox in TX as Marie Antoinette and that was my friend m Fitzpatrick who lives here, who I went to college with, So I just call all my friends to do all the voices, like insane, you get any part of the gag, do you feel like you enjoy it more or less watching it because you're involved? Is that like something you

lose being involved? No? No, no no, no. Being on set and watching it go down, watching them perform, it's a rush that you can't describe it is. So it's, well, it's freezing first of all on sets you're like shaking. Yeah, I mean you don't want the queens to sweat or anyone to sweat. There in so much fabric, so much makeup, wigs and everything, so it's freeze ing. But um, but also yeah, it's it is so special and it feels like it's just getting going and it's ten seasons end,

which is insane. Yeah that's unheard of. Ye, that's unheard of. It's only growing and growing and growing, And I mean the conversations around it are so so important. So we're like when we're recording this, we're like in the middle of All Stars four right now? Do you end up knowing results? And I don't want to, you know, I

am a massive fan of Drag Race. I was a fan before I worked on the show, but they're people in my friend group are bigger fans, and it it is so intense, um and so I don't typically talk about it. One because I've signed a million n D A and uh too, because I forget, Like, we we filmed my episode that I was on this this season. We filmed it last January, you know, so you forget

the interactions that happened. I forgot that I had some fun moments with Chia and and uh fun moments with Farah, and so you forget all those things and then you watch it back and my friends, you know, will be like, so, what's going on? I'm like, I one for I'm not telling you, and to I forget, like I don't know. Yeah, that's so this the question I'm gonna ask is so insane. How big is that main stage? Are? Like, is a huge?

It's a big? Yeah, it looks huge. It's not one of those spaces where you go in and you're like, oh my gosh, it's so much smaller. Yes, yes, yes, that thing. Like when I went to the Prices, right, I was like, this is tiny. That's crazy. Um, but no, it's it's a it's big, you know what's really small? Watch What Happens Live? Yes, it is intimate, intimate, Yeah, but no, it's a it's a great space. And like I get chills, like when I see the Snatch Game

set coming out or anything like that. It's so cool. Yeah, what's your favorite one that you've worked on, like, like a favorite song like extravag As we Are? Um, I mean there, I loved writing um a classic? Is there an anal option from? Oh my God, my my friend Mia was the voice of that who we Are? I also went to college with And is there an anal option? Mayhem Miller? Right, that was Mayhem? That was Mayhem. Um, But I mean I do think I loved working on

Bad Girls of History. Yeah, that was really that. All Stars to cast is iconic. I think All Stars four comes close though. Really, I think it's been fucking amazing. So we're recording this right after him the Lala Peruse episode and that, like, because I was telling you mant, I was like, I don't like it's a good season. I don't know about this roster. They're like, are are we liking like this group we've always had hesitation since the Annasis cast, I've been so then, like the Lalla

Peruse episode just like crystallized everything. I was like, they picked all the right girls, and like it's this is such good television. It's so like it all comes together in this one episode and now like there's more of the season to be had, but like so fun, such a good watching it, and like seeing the runways this all this year and thinking about All Stars in general. Do you know who I think is going to eventually fucking kill an All Star season? Asia Asia. I think

Asia O'Hara is going to win All Stars. I think what will be really tough is if Asia O'Hara and Shape Cool are in the same season. It's gonna be hard, and I think they'll both do All Stars five. But Asia has a redemption arc that she is going in with. And Asia comes to the runway with gags already not on an All Stars season, So what is Asia? What

is an elevated runway Asia gonna be? Yeah, that is fucking crazy thing to have a lot of respect for the queens that come with no budget, you know, I yeah, it's a hard Yeah. Asia came in made her Daniel line look with an Ikea, but she made it work. And also like, that's the reason I say Asia and Shay is because I feel like those are the two because I don't think Kim she's ever doing it. I just don't get the sense that she's ever going to do All Stars. But I think Shay and Asia are

both waiting for their moment. I think it's going to come at the same time, and that will be a gag because she is also so fucking she has also fun fact shape or Kim, she and Tyler went to high school together. I'm like, no way, you know, Jill, Kim Booster and Shakol went to high school together and they were in the same production of No No It was and and um Shay was Audrey too and Joel was um Seymour Seymour. Yeah, amazing. Can they please? Yes?

I mean they're both fame people would people would pay money to see that. I was too. Gorgeous people doing gorgeous work, gorgeous work. Um is it time? I think it's time? Okay, I think be time. So we're doing I don't think Sony, did you come prepared? Bit she did come prepared as prepared as I can. I'm very nervous. I also might lose some friendships over this. You know it's gonna be good. Um, this is our one minute. This is our one minute segment where we each go

off for one minute. As I've said about pop culture, something that's getting our go doesn't have to be pop culture related, something in the culture. Matt, do you have something? I need a second. Okay, you need a second, I think because I've designed two things that I want to hear yours. So I go to I land on a different flavor. Okay, well I'll wait. Mine was going to be topical, and we have to remember not to be topical. Okay, Um,

here we go, here we go. All right, this is I don't think so honey, And as time starts now, I don't think so honey. Poppers. Really, I've been using poppers and it's it's been rush. It's been rush, and I do the poppers and I'm trying to This is for my own private use. It's not with I haven't been so lucky to be with another person, um in a sexual setting. So it's for my own popper's use. So that so I stick other things things up my butt. But it's it's it's it's giving me too much of

a little head rush. I'm like, wait a minute, I can't concentrate, and it's not the intended thing. I don't feel they so dilation. I don't I can't tell if it's making things easier for me down there, and like, bitch you got I can't believe I had to walk to Chelsea into some insane sex shop and spend forty to buy two little bottles poppers. The fact that there are top and bottom poppers is insane to me. There should just be one for bottoms. Tops. They don't need anything,

they're they're set. They should just take a masculinity pillums. So I don't think so many poppers. We need to rethink the way that we present these and how we advertise what the effects. And that's why I'm minute, you know, I think you might just be taken too much of a No, I'm just going and also if you need

someone to take those off your hands and stuff. And I'm a fan, but my group of friends who started doing it recreation the ways he'll bring it to the club, Joel's stunt when he's around straight people, as he'd be like, hey, you should try poppers just for absolutely, Yeah, we did it. We did it on stage before. I don't think so, honey, l A. Last night at the after party, we all cheers with our fried chicken sandwiches and special. That was

a good fried chicken sandwich so good. Also, so when I uh did the Troy tour and we stopped in Atlanta and my whole group of friends Joe John down from Nashville, and then I went and sat with them and danced while Troy Troy was on stage. And this was new to me to see my entire group of friends, girls, guys, gay straights all doing poppers. I was like, what, it's

a revolutionous going on. Yeah, the first revolution. Yeah, past the poppers hun one time but one and I walked into a room and a friend said, pop the poppers the gazer here and I was like, I love that. As our intro, who said Joanna Bradley remember queer, I mean she's queer herself and she so she was allowed to say that. I decided what I'm gonna do and it's on theme. Okay, it's on theme. Great, this is Matt Rogers. I don't think so many a time starts now,

I don't think so, honey, that bottoming hurts. Can I say something? All I want to do is take a fucking cock seriously, like that I watched is like exclusively, like obviously it's clear to me that I want to get fucked. And then literally like I'll try, I'll be on my loans. I'm like, and I'm thinking in my private times, should I And I can't even stomach the

fact of trying to do that with myself. I need to be able to take dicks because, let me tell you something, I feel that there's a side of my sexuality that is like just not being explored, and I don't think so, honey. I listened to Bloom and I'm like so proud to be part of this community. And then I can't even fucking hack it. And I wanted able to hack it so bad. I wanted be able to hack it so bad, honey. And honestly, here's the thing. No one has mentioned a trainer jildo and I am.

I would like to get out there and try to try to get it, But the fact of the matter is is it going to be a wasteful purchase? Am I going to like actually enjoy this? I really hope so I don't think so money that it hurts. I just want to have fucking said and that's one minute. Okay, Trainer Delga will not hurt. It is like it is just so what you do is I want to be able to use my asshole for sex. Okay, here's here's here's start with this is And for anyone if this

is tr graphic, we're so sorry. But also I came. I came to this episode for this, so yes, yes, and we're also not apologizing for us. This is boom, but this is, this is, this is, this is the anal option. So you gotta get a great lube, gotta get your fingers in there in the loube. Start with one to three. After three, after you're after you're in with three, you go in with the trainer, take ahead of poppers, play your porn, whatever you want to do, and then you if you feel up for it, you can.

You can work with the trainer for like a week or so, and then you move up to something right here and and then then and then and then and then you'll be ready. I would love to be able to fucking not be so skinnish about that. I I was very much in the same place as you are. And it's and it's this is just one of the things that we have to live with. It sucks, but

it's but it's worth it once you get there. Sure, there you go being a stern verse stern what I really wanted us to be able to, like, be able to confidently say I'm verse. Okay, that's I have in the past been with someone that used a training builder and it changed everything. All right, that's fine, Then I know what I have to do. Then I know what I must do. It sounded like you were singing one, two, three like the fingers I was dying three. I okay,

and then can I ask you something? Sure? It changed everything for the better, because for me, it's like my my thing now is that like and I taking away something that is that gives me value as a sexual being where I I take pride in my I'm just gonna say, and my tightness and people comment on that, and then now now I'm worried that I'm like taking that away by like just getting worry about that. Great, Okay.

I just feel like the kind of way I feel sexually lately is like I want to be like grabbed. I don't want to be like the aggressor, you know what I mean. I don't feel like that right now, like in you want to be tossed around. Honestly, Like two years ago, I was like feeling very toppy, and now I'm like, you know, are no, And even with my stash, I feel like I'm posturing as a top And meanwhile I'm like, I have this podcast, what do

you mean? I feel like we're very bothered me our vocals whatever, that's um, there's no. When I was on Food for Thought, they were like shocked that I identified as a t o p oh whatever thought you were a screaming musical fat fruit for thought. Boys, That is the type thought boys. That is not. That is politically uncouth of you to say, you guys, fran Dennis, I refuse your offer to replace Joe. Um, okay, this is it. This is I have been stressing from things that we

could never ever, ever fucking do. Just you will. You will nail this. I promise. This is Leland's I don't think so, honey, And as time starts now, I don't

think so, honey. Jazzy renditions of pop hits TikTok was not meant to be performed with a big band by a girl who's dressed like she's trying to seduce the dad from Mary popline of my favorite songs of all time is Toxic, And one time I accidentally clicked on a jazzy version on YouTube and it was like, oh, the taste of your lips im toxic, and I was like, absolutely not. I will tell you what's toxic. This version. Kathy Dennis, who famously wrote Toxic, is a songwriting icon.

She's not dead, but if she were, she would roll over in her gray. The second of all, it's not jazz. Slowing down a song to have the speed and singing as high and as low as you can does not make it jazz. Singing and singing while dressed like you're in Chicago the musical is not jazz. And yeah, so also I want to say that if someone did a song that I wrote in a jazzy version, I would I would change my mind and love it. Also, Mario,

I love you. I know, I know you've done some of these and I adore you and will always go to a show that you have that does this to cover your basis at the end, to be like, by the way, if someone were to cover one of my last seconds were a complete the last second, the last five seconds were just an insurance policy exactly, which also I do genuinely, genuinely loath for me. It depends there's that there's that one YouTube like channel that does a

bunch of them. It's like postmodern jukebox. I don't know. I'm not going to say yeah, I was. I was so insecure about like doing this before. I was texting with Dave and he asked me if I had mine prepared and I and I sent, I said yes, and he said he agreed. I don't want to blast him, but he agreed, and he was like, yes, it's like removing all of my favorite songs about things about about the song that top music now is like pretty much

written to be like it is. I mean, but I do love when I hear a rendition of a song. It can never be jazzy, but I love a ballad version of a song. Of course I love it on a piano absolutely, Yes, I agree a ballad version I accept. I accept a sort of an unplugged situation where it's just guitar, like you know, but at what point that it becomes a slippery slip and the bottom of that hope is dr poppers. Is jazz okay? So slow down jazz? Honestly, would I could understand jazz? I yeah, I do love

a big band. I love a big band night out, but I don't but I don't want to hear toxic with a big band exactly. I want to hear like a big band classic that I've never heard of before. You know, I totally agree, and I would say that's culture. That's culture. This episode was culture. This episode I truly feel. I feel very lucky that we got to talk to you because we don't have a lot of like, um, we we should. We need to get more like songwriters.

We need to get because that's culture. We have a lot of comedians on this show, and people think the show is funny. It's not funny, but this is not a comedy show. This is not comedy. This is We're serious. Yeah, we made we actually made a rule of culture before with christ and Sarah we said it's real culture number something. I am not funny, Yes, so we are. So we're just so lucky to have you with us. You're the best. Thank you, And what a quick friendship that's been struck

up to in like seventy two hours. No, truly, I'm like I've seen him each day. I saw the weekend, some Thursday, some Saturday song. You got him on Thursday, and I got him on Friday. I got a little photo booth moment. We did a handoff. We did a handoff. Oh wait, that photo booth picture was kind of iconic. That's going to be like a picture that. It was us, Darcy, Sarah, Sudy, so many fun people, and your friend Steve Stephen, who

I love. He's wonderful. So it was like an art It was like a gift thing where we're just all moving. But Steven decides to do a R T P O P the R pop and signs from Gaga. So I instantly was like, okay, you're you're Cannon, you get it. So canonically here with us, canonically here, Okay, we close out every episode with a song. Yes we love, and we're going to close it out with a song. And we know which one it is, do we it's you know,

it's going to be one of two. And I'm feeling I love both, but I'm feeling one over the other right now in this moment here we go Here, We Go My Mom Night. Listen to bloom By try By. This has been a Forever Dog production executive produced by Brett Bahum, Joe Silio, and Alex Ramsey. For more original podcasts, please visit Forever Dog Podcasts dot com and subscribe to our shows on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get

your podcasts. Keep up with the latest Forever Dog news by following us on Twitter and Instagram at forever Dog Team, and liking our page on Facebook.