"My Big Fat Greek Culture" (w/ George Civeris)

going in September. I think I'm going on September in Los Angeles and Los Angeles at the Greek Theater, which is my favorite space, The Greek Theater up in the mountain, open up high in the mountains. I electric scootered a couple about a month ago to the Image and Heap concert a Greek Theater. I'm sorry, and you lived to tell the tale. The tale actually a thing I do. Electric scooter. You gotta be careful. You have to be so careful. Four. You gotta be careful. Electric scooter. Was

it a bird? It was I have bird and lime? Yeah? Do you know about this? Yeah? So I think last year I went to l A. I think they had just I was in Santa Monica. And decided to take a bird all the way down to the pier and almost died. And I was like, never again. And you know, you know, my my family history with um bye bye wheeled, don't know about this. My grandpa got hit by a bus while riding a bike in China and almost died. And my mom, his daughter got hit by a bus

and almost died on a bicycle. So I don't know. It's truly the transitive property that you have in your death experience. Yeah, it's inherited trauma two wheeled. Yeah, that's what I Yeah, exactly, So I don't I don't trust myself with no electric scooter. But that's that's beautiful for you, that you that this is your thing, is that you elect excuted to concerts. That's my really my thing now to these to these woo woo ethereal um, you know

pop stars. Yeah, And honestly, what would you call Maggie She loves tweeting about astrology that Maggie, Well, I do love that for her. Yeah, yeah, um, you know. Famously, I had an out of body experience when we went upstate and I looked at the moon and listened to light on for the first time. I so, I so, I had a spiritual experience at that same trip, and I went outside at one point by myself, and I listened to um deep cut Maggie Early, Maggie Rodgers, UM, yeah,

and it was wonderful. Do you know it was on this pod that we literally found out about my goddess that a is Maggie. When Mike Helton was like, when we did yes honey instead of I don't think so, honey, he said yes honey, Maggie. And then Maggie listened to that episode, she tweeted at us, I'm sorry, We're just we're just name dropping. Well Bowen, is I am? Well you well? I am? Um anyway? Uh and I like I stand Maggie. Yes, of course. And I'm going to see her. And I've been on a concert kick, as

have you. She's opening up for Casey that date. I think I might. I think that's it. I think that's the t Wait, what what do you mean? What to so Casey is doing another leg, is doing another leg of her tour. She's not open, not today that I'm going She's open, magg He's doing her own show. He's doing her own show. Okay, great, then I believe you. I believe women. Um, why would he tell me that? I was like, as if I wouldn't wouldn't know that.

I'm turning into our guests now because it's really ridiculous. I know what, look hold on one second. One you looked intellectually superior, intellectually severian, Bow's gotta go. Can we talk about this? Yeah, we can talk about it. I think it's my first pointedly negative targeted review, first targeted negative review. And I gotta say it's it sucks. Yeah, it doesn't feel good? Does it doesn't feel good? And I'm so sorry. And now we have a shared experience. Truly,

someone well this is someone said, Bow's gotta go. I was gotta go. Replace Boone with Joel or SUITI. I'm he's utterly joyless and I'm sick of him. Painful to He's painful to listen to, and it's painful to listen to him. Intellectual superior And you know, I'll cop to some you don't have to come to that. It's a hater control and as but actually so you can do this thing on on iTunes where you click on their handle. It takes you all the reviews they've posted for other stuff. Wow,

I didn't know. And so then this person. First of all, their handle was you feel that way, which isn't which is an homage to Matt. So the clear this person hates me and loves you, which is I love um. But then they endorsed this strip. They endorsed, they endorsed this stripper, and then I clicked on their handle to see their other reviews. And the other review was for another Forever Dog podcast, Nicole's Grace's Anatomy Fabulous. I was

on the first episode. This person reviewed the first left to review after the first episode, and it was saying how great the podcast is, which is which it is, and they end it with also Bowen is bay well, so the obviously there was some turn, some inflection point there. I am so curious to see this might be a Dylan Marin, which I was gonna say, we should have a Dylan Marin moment and bring you feel that way on the pot and confront them about what makes them hateful?

Makes them hateful? Do you know what makes me joyful? I remember meeting our guests, and you know I always remember the important meetings in my life. Yes, and this you count this as one of them. Well, I was. I met this person in a car. You two were the same class at GFL. We were, and we got put in the same car actually was a very gay car. It was me our guest and Sam j oh, that's a gay car, and we were driven to Montreal, and um, it was a joyful experience getting to know this person.

And I have to say, what's been even better has been over the past couple of years, games to know him a little bit better and perform her friends we can call her friend. I really really really smart bitch, funny bit the smartest bitch, talk about intellectually superior, talk about intellectually superior. That you feel that way, would not feel such a good way about George, not at all, So I mean, tune out you feel that way. I truly think our gy is so great. I love really

and I've been anticipating this. I've been anticipating this a lot. I my first meeting with him, I I really built him up myself. Why did you do that? Because I was like, Oh, he's he's so smart, so funny. And we met and it was lovely, and I realized he's just flesh and blood like the rest of it. But no, but he's not. He truly transcends, you know, transcends to human flesh. Human flesh. Wow, oh my god, a frontrunner for title of that. He transcends the human flesh. I

just really really like him a lot. And you should please welcome into your ears. Stupid sid I did your I did kind of waffed in as a cloud and then the particles kind of came together into human. Yeah, that's exactly what happened. You were gaseous and then you were a solid, which is how that goes. I'm one of the only people that can kind of transition between Yeah, what would that make him? Transition between matter? You're like, smack, Yeah,

Alex Mack, that's culture. That's culture. Alex Mack is a blind spot. That's what I came to talk about. Did you hear him that a blind spot? There was? Was there an Alex mac apop star for a second? Gosh wait, I don't know that. But anyway, Alex mac The Secret Life of Alex mac Larissa. I feel like Alex Mack. I never chose to watch it, but it was always on.

You never choose, But sometimes she's just like, it's like early kind of c G I where remember it's just like it's like this glittery goo that then turns into a person. Yeah, you would love it, Bone because it's one of those shows that's like in the in the opening credits, they like very quickly wrapped, they very quickly recap like what happens in the pilot that makes her magical Google, and then the whole show is just she's a girl who solves crime and she can turn into

I didn't I don't even remember that shelved crime. She she I believe she solved crime like in like a like a very much like going into Peron Brockovich type situations. She was constantly turning into sludge and getting in hard to get places. Wait, I'm sorry she she would always get into PG and e Eron Brockovich situations. You know what I'm saying, Like like basically the whole thing was like there's nefarious ship going on with the chemical company

that like right, am I making this up? I honestly have no idea. Okay, George, this is something, this is something that I'm so curious to talk to you about. As someone who you know, moved around a lot. Probably I want to say and like I was raised in like a non English speaking household right in a way, no,

in a in a big way. Okay, So I'm always like, I'm learning to forgive myself as of late for your blind spot, for my blind spots, because I was just like, just I've spent I've spent a lot of time with people who were like, you haven't seen that, and I'm like, whoa wa. So this is something I think about all the time. It's because not only did I I mean, yes, I grew up in a non English speaking household and I was the oldest, so I didn't have older siblings

explain things to me. But then the other thing was that we moved back to different places at random time. So it's like I sent my early childhood in Greece, then I lived in in the States from like second grade to eighth grade, and then we moved back to Greece. So there are so my blind spots don't even make sense because it's like there could be something that's like from seventh grade when I lived in New Jersey, that's like an American pop culture thing that I know really well.

But then I have like I like never read The Great Gaps because I was like a high school book and I went to a Greek speaking high school and we and that was never that was not that so it's or or just like moving like I remember the year we moved back to Greece, I was so overwhelmed with like I mean, I was at like a second grade reading level in Greek and I had to suddenly be in high school in a Greek speaking school, so like it was I had like a tutor, and then

it's it wasn't even just the language. It was like learning Greek terms for like science, and that's because everything was in great so basically that I literally consumed no culture. And I just think, remember that was that your Brokeback Mountain came out and I didn't hear about it until like over a year later, where it's just like you would just you would just like have like blacked out spots.

There's like that year, which was I guess two thousand five or so, I literally consumed nothing nothing that's so today. And then I became and then it's like obviously in Greek culture, I had so many blind spots because I had not grown up there. So it's like aside from being like people were at the time because it was Bush era, extremely obviously anti American abroad, so like already people were like did not like me, But then I

also just like wouldn't know basic things. Fox, you had like nothing, so you were you were you were in a way in their eyes, you were proving them right like you were stupid. Well not just that, but then in my mind I was like, because stupid American. Yes. But then in my mind, because I had grown up with immigrant parents here, I thought it was like my big homecoming going back to Greece, and I was like, well here people will like because it's like when I

was in America. I was like, what's locross, you know? And then then I would like go back and I was like, oh, this is like where my people are. And then they were all like you're American. Yeah, so have has there been enough distance now for you to be able to pinpoint what you're coping mechanism was for that? I mean, well, it's also hard because and this is something I'm only recently like thinking about. It perfectly coincided with me realizing I was getting in a way where

it's almost like it's like written by like jump ALAHERI. Yeah, yeah, you will also know what I mean. It's like it's like, oh, it's all a metaphor for transition, but literally it's like I moved across, you know too, across the across the pond um like the summer where I was like coming to terms with that. So it's all a complete blur because I feel like I had to have all these mechanisms are just like kind of exist in it, which I don't want to over dramatize it them very I

grew up privilege. But like it's really a shame that you didn't see broke Back Mountain. That is, do you know what happens? And I can tell you. I can tell you what happens. So in Brokeback Mountain there's like two men. First of all, they're both men, and there's Heath and there's Jake. And so Jake is like the one who you know, he let's just say, makes the advances on Heath, and Heath was very much like a second grade reading level sexually, you know what I mean,

Like he was like very whipped up in his body. Anyway, they have sex and realized that they're gay, and uh, you know, hi Jinks and Hijks. Now I famously kind of a comedy of manners. Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, and it ends hilarious, hilarious. I feel like there, yes, I I appreciate you not wanting to over aramatized, but I feel like there's it's rife with drama. It is, it is right, and like to realize you're gay in Greece, come on, but that had to suck because like then you have

to realize you're gay and be closet. Are on the most beautiful men in the world. Yeah, I mean I think they grow into their beauty show some shade against the Greeks. I always forget that you are Greek Greek, Greek Greek because I am. I'm Greek. My mom's made her name is Claritas. I had no That's how we got this browse Georgia's jaws on the floor. We also have similar coloring. General. I know that you mentioned my hand very very quickly because of the I had no idea. Yeah, no,

my mom's made made. Her name is Claritas. What was my big fat Greek wedding? Like, yeah, it's so good. In fact, I went on, um, you've done? Have you both done Jamie's podcast? Really? How does it do? On the best definitely passes. Oh totally. Yeah, you don't have to pick a movie that doesn't pass it, just like

talk about like representation. In fact, I was so like defensive of it that I listening back to the episode, I was kind of being really defensive with Caitlin Durante, who kept being like, well, maybe it's not great, but like ultimately she finds empowerment through a man, and I was like, no, you don't get it, Like, well she didn't get it. Yeah, I was like, we did it,

but I was like, you don't. It's like difficult to like find a midway point between like American culture and like the different culture, and like what that movie portrays so beautifully is one way to do that. And I think it's very kind of simplistic to view it through that lens of like, oh, she just gets married at the end, that's so whatever, because the conflict is the culture,

you know. And also it's like she it's a win for the character because she marries for love and she and she wants to get married well and all the power, all the like influential characters in that movie are women. It's like the mom Andrew Martin, you know, the obviously new over dollars. I'm literally getting chillsen. Yeah, I know Andrew Martin in that movie is Laney, Yeah No, that

movie was huge. We that was like I remember there was a time when I could recite it from beginning to end my party trick in middle school amongst like the girls who got it and like there was another gay people. Um was just to quote the Andrew Martin um twin all my life exactly all my life I had I was, I would do the accident and I would just quote it to people at parties and then girls like would laugh that my allies. Um, I believe that. Silver Brook just posted it her second mention on this

podcast and the Tide groundbreaking. Um. She was like, this is one of the best community monologues we've been in a long time. I mean that movie. I was about to say it's like underrated, which is false. It's literally like the highest cursing romantic comedy or something. But I do think when people like I would say, let's say, like a buzz feed or something, where to put where to do like top ten romantic comedies, there's a good

chance they would miss that one. But it is a romantic comedy just because it doesn't have a Julia Roberts or of Sandra Bullock in the lead role. I think that's why I get skipped over. And I also think she was a non traditional choice for the lead of those kinds of movies, which also makes it so powerful. But hello, she got nominated for the fucking Oscar for the saying like that screenplays Oh my god, and it's I'm now like gonna We're gonna have the same conversation

Jamie and Caitlin, So we can't. We need to nip in the bed. But no, I refuse. I wanted to be a duplicate. But but it's like it was an unknown Yeah, women in her forties, writing, producing and starring in a romantic comedy in the mid two thousands and super independent, like no, truly, not a lot of money at all. Do you guys know who the producers? Because he the story goes that he saw her one woman show because she was friends with Rita Wilson. Well, so

Rita is Greek, yes, and right, that's actually culture number seven. Yes, the fact that Rita Wilson is Greek is like a big It's huge. It's a huge. I wonder what her maiden name is? Do we know this? Um? Well, she might be like she might be she might not have it might be like half Greek and it's like her. Yeah yeah, well we might not be able to find Yeah, but I do know that. First of all, I saw

her recently because um, oh my god. Last year at my so my sister went to college with their son, their youngest son, I believe, and so I saw them at the graduation. They were both very cute. Um, do we have intel coming in? Yes? Okay, so wow, all right, so this is insane? What her real name is? Margharita ibrahf ibrahm ha, Yeah, this is Did anyone know that Rita Wilson's real name is Margarita? Did you know what is? Okay? Pop quiz, what is Tina Fey's first name? Saa Elizabeth?

Stas Elizabeth? That's real? And then this is Zenobia's in there or something? I just Stamata is such so great? This says her mother. Dorothea was agreed that this doesn't say her maiden name. What's with that whitewashing, Rita? I think we got to take her to tak her father Hassan HOLLI love it brought it brought him off. Was a pal mock Bulgarian Muslim born in Breshton, Greece, close to the border with Bulgaria. Do we can we believe

this that? I think Rita Wilson, Margarite, Margharita, Margarita, thank you, hp A. There has to be I mean, beyond the meganos of it all, there has to be some fun, little queer moment for you too to go back to Greece and do something. I think it's a rom com stort, like can't we go to make an else? You can't see me in George and making Absolutely we'll all going to make an nose together. I'm saying there's there's something.

I mean, I think there's there's a meek, there's a making noose, rob Colm, that you will are destined to write someday. And I think for George there's like there's like a there's like a more sort of smart prestige. You acting at intellectuy superior, No actually are Okay, let's break this down, Let's unpack that. Let's break this Let's break this down. I literally had the thought today on the subway, I go Matt Rodgers is one of the smartest people on this planet. Shut up his responses to

things as they happen. Where does he have his mind? I don't. I don't understand how this is. This is about George to Darris and his incredibly smart screenplay He's going to write, and George is going to write something a little bit, something prestige but dark, but ultimately has a tragic ending. How do you feel about being described as artistically prestige the tragic ending, a tragic ending? Yeah? Um, are you willing to respond to that? I'm and I really why. I want to know why you think it

would have a tragic ending. I take that back. I'm saying not trunge, but I'm saying it's like end of Fleaback season two, there's a moment of like there's a moment of like, like just complete closure for this character that would be based on you, but you will have been there, your scar tissue will be very fresh. Okay, So I think that's the highest compliment. Think the only

reason is um uh, what were your thoughts? But the only thing I was gonna say is that, So I it's like, as a as a consumer of media, I love things like exactly what you're describing, and I feel like I because I'm so like joke oriented. When I sit down and write something, I can only write a joke. I can only write jokes and actually like that I had written something at some point and like one of the criticisms was that it feels like it's written by

a stand up comedian. It's just like all I do is like dialogue, like a series of dialogues that have that are just like a joke joke, And I really and I feel like it stems from like an insecurity of like being like vulnerable on the page, and do you know what I mean? So it's like I do think it's a common because that means that maybe someday I will be able to attempt something like it's like I have confidence in Matt. I think you agree with me. I think George is a very sort of a tory

tourish future. You know something I am identifying with this because a criticism I used to get a lot was all the characters sound the same. And I think that means that you're writing in a strong voice. So you know you've seen successful writers that have that, I mean, especially earlier in her career. Her characters out at the same Yeah, like she was just like everyone sounded like

Juno in that movie, except maybe Jennifer Garner. Yeah, right, I there's there's certain writers that like if I threw that and it was like a gross like a chili like but now, yeah, he meant he was trying to give us chills? Did he give you chills when he said he didn't strike hearing? You know? I felt nothing, you know when I saw two seconds of the other Day,

which looked like hot garbage wonder Wheel. I'm sorry, but justin Timberlake, like there was a scene between them like they've just fucked, I guess, And there's a scene with her getting dressed and he's laying in the bed. Have you seen this? No? But I just like when you watch the trailer, it's one of those And I hate when this happens, when you feel like an actor that

you respect. In this case, obviously I'm referring to just timber Like, okay, okay, it just like is embarrassing themselves, right, And I hate that and I feel bad saying that. But and this is controversial, but that's kind of how I felt about like MoMA Mio one with Meryl Streets just like her jumping on the bed, and I was just like, see now I don't have that problem without a MIA because it's like for me, it's like how

else would you do this? And like and like I don't feel mad at Merrill for saying yes to that movie. I feel a mad at Kate Winslet for saying yes to it, and b I watch it and I'm like for you to say yes to this and this also be this bad like this scene with Kate Winslet and sorry, justin Timberlake, I will say sorry before I say his

name for the rest of the podcast. It's just like these are two people who aren't speaking to each other, and it's like it just goes to show, like wow, if we didn't cancel Woody Allen for being like disgusting, then we should definitely cancel him for being like completely wrote and just like it's just so repetitive. Well it's it's also I mean again putting all the growth stuff aside.

Just as a filmography, he has always been inconsistent, like it has always been like one good movie, one bad movie, one good movie, when like so prolific. Yeah, I mean there are a movie there was a movie that he did with like Jason Biggs and Christina Ricci and it is terrible. You either hear about them because they fucking kill at the awards at the end of the year, like Blue Jasmine or something. He either like fucking nails it or it's ter and you never hear about it,

or like Scoop do you remember Scoop? Oh, I remember Scarlet Johnson. Johnson was not Hugh Jackman, who I don't remember but whatever doesn't matter. But um, yeah, another just completely. I remember watching it and like forgetting it as it was happening. This is like right before you got canceled

for good. But um that he's not he's working. I mean, this is this is a whole other thing, which is just like they always say, like, you know, don't get mad at the actress, is like they're just trying to work. It's like, I have a huge problem with that because Kate Winslet is not just trying to work in quotes, She's an Academy Award winning actress with many options and choices. And I do feel upset that she said yes to that movie, and I do think that she should answer

for that. I think sorry I think that these people exist in a different media environment than you. You know what I'm think you don't think that she weighed on her mind, like it might be problematic if I do this, maybe I shouldn't. You know, they they have. But I again, like I think we constantly underestimated how people are not part of like mainstream conversations that we think are like

everywhere everywhere. Yeah, like once you're up there like the focal point, and also like the relativity of the ethical quandries. It's like it's the equivalent of like me deciding whether or not I want to use like a plastic shower or paper show. It's like sometimes I'll make the right decision, sometimes I'll make it's all okay, Like that's it's like for her, it's like maybe she made some decisions she was proud of and something she was less proud of,

but she's not going to like derail her whole. I don't know. I'm not saying I'm not saying I don't agree with you. I think like if if everyone was on the same page, then I think you're absolutely right. But I I mean, it's like I've been thinking about this with a SCARLETTR. Hands and stuff to him, like what kind of things must she read? Like, yeah, she must be exactly exactly, Yeah, she's she's out of touch

to say that, I mean, no matter what. But like what to what degree is she to for her to be able to say that in the first place, sort of feel like she should, yeah, Or it's like I wonder if she even knows something that she's saying will be controversial, or if she thinks she's like speaking some big truth like anyway, odd time for her to do that too, right before the announcement that like black Wood, Like, it's so like that could have been such I mean,

and I don't know, I don't know really where everyone's at with Scarlett Johanson. I've always been a huge fan of hers, and when she messes up like this, it's really frustrating because I think she's so good and I just want to see her like get there, like in

terms of these conversations. But with Bo, with the black Widow of it all, it's like, I wonder if that would have been a more prominent part of that big Marvel announcement had she not just had this this whole thing go down, Because it feels like everyone like that big Marvel announcement, which was like crazy, all that stuff

that was announced. I feel like, you know rightfully, So like the conversations that I'm seeing online in my bubble anyway is like about Blade and about like you know, um which is and yes, and all the how diverse the roster is, and like you know, Tessa Thompson is going to have a queer love interest in Thor, and Natalie Portman is going to be female. The only thing I know is that Natalie Portman is going to be female and Natalie is gonna be fucking female Thor, which

I don't really know how that makes sense. In the cannon, it's multiverse stuff, so they're opening up the multiverse where like there's a different world in which she is, or so Jane Foster her character from the movies, or well that is literally true. So it has been announced that Jane Foster becomes Thor. Great fun. And it's also like we're trying to rationalize the Marvel movies, which I have to say, after having seen all of them. Yes, I get that Endgame was good, and I get that some

of the movies are good. I can't understand a thing that is happening, don't care at thank you? And can you believe there's gonna be I cried drinking because I was stoned out of my mind, and I was like Joel and like we were just I've learned to be accepting of like I think it's so boring to be one of these people that's like adults watching comics. But then it's like part of me is thinking that. But then also I'm just like it's also boring anything you can say about them, if you like them or if

you don't like them. I just like, I wish we could stop it. Yeah, I totally as their military propaganda is it really is all true, Like the whole thing of like um sort of like um, what's it like a glorifying like nest or whatever, like whatever it's called, Like the whole like the whole recruiting process of it all a little I saw a wonder Woman on a plane and I was like, this is the most abhorrent thing I've ever seen. Like I think, no offense to

Patty Jenkins. I think Patty Jenkins is wonderful, but she didn't write the movie. She drive to the movie's gal Gadote, not a good actress anyway, I mean, how could she be good? I think superhero the concept of superheroes is like there is some like propaganda, there is some proselytizing thing about like joining the militant, Like literally, um, did you see Spider Man Far from Home? You don't? All right?

I've heard it's good. I fell asleep numerous Wow did you see that interview with Kirston duns For She was asked about the new Spider Man movies and she was like, well, we did it best, so I don't know why they keep doing it right, And I fucking love her. We've

I think we've discussed she is. And I'm not the first game Man to say this, like the lack of respect that Kirsten Dunst gets not only as an actress but as a cultural figure and someone who is knowledgeable about film and knowledgeable about art and knowledgeable about film history and talk about I mean making choices about what

projects are participants Dunst. I mean the thing she chooses all could be taught in like film schools like it's and even the She's like, Okay, I'm gonna do Eternal Sunshine. I have a small role, but that is going to be a movie that people talk about for that. She should have been nominated for an Oscar for that. That's the diff definition of a great sight. There was like she's the character that the movie doesn't work without that character,

not at all. Yeah, I mean she's in that new show which looks very good, which I know you on on becoming a God in Central Party. And then it was like it was introducing the cast and it was like Emmy and Golden Globe Nominique Cus Duns and I was like, are you fucking kids? I've never been up there saying thank you, Like are you kidding me? It's crazy because I was literally just explaining so that we

do this. There's this thing called you You You're Coven, which is like the five actresses who like, like, she's in my coven for sure, And so I say, all throughout my life literally from the beginning, she has been in like the defining movies of like I'm telling you, like if you could start from the beginning, I wasn't like cognizant of it during the interview with the vampire,

but that's in a stunning that's a stunning performance. And then you know from Jumanji even to like bring it on, bitch, dropped a gorgeous to um Eternal Sunshine to even the more adult stuff that she's done recently, Mellian Colia and um uh Bachelorette. Bachelorette is genius and the movie with the the oh yeah, yes, oh wait, oh god, this is so embarrassing. Wait Marie not Marie Tourette. But what wait funk? What the hell is um? Oh my god?

Yes the god we saw movie theaters again. Another performance that like I thought should have been in a conversation. She was the best one in the movie absolutely, and the most difficult part. You know, I forgot about I mean, as a movie it's like fine, but her, I think she transcends the script like her. I think that's I agree that it was one of the best performances that year. Also, I loved her and Hidden Figures absolutely because she is

the part. Yes, she's she commits. You know what's interesting. And we were talking about Natale Apartment. I feel like they've had very similar trajectories except they like they like diverged in a Wood explained this like child actors and their prestige films, who like sort of and early nerd culture stuff and didn't even mentioned Spider Man obviously huge.

And then like, but Natalie wasn't really into the rom coms until later on, maybe like she she like tingently, like she was getting her checks revisited every now and then. But like, but now, but I feel like Kirsten stuck to her art house guns a little bit more and a little bit longer. And yeah, she doesn't get the respect she deserves well, I mean, and then also like we haven't even mentioned her incredible performance in Fargo, which

I actually haven't, so she's unbelievable in that. And I think it just got lost in the fact that there's just so much gold happening with addresses on television right now. I mean, she's I think I think there's enough of a ground swell happening with there's always but she's all. She hasn't there's no comeback narrati because she hasn't been gone. But it's like I think, I think, I think everyone. I think there's a moment it's imminent with her in the next few years. I think it's cool that she

has this show. I wonder if you never know, I wonder if it will be like her moment because you never know because the field is so crowded. It's like Christina Applegate gave such an amazing performance and dead to me, she's not going to literally watch three episodes of it today not believe how good she. I haven't seen it because, um, a guy used to date it loves it, and I'm like, no, yeah,

it's fair to watch. Wait, I wanted to go back, but when you need to watch Bachelor and and it's like, you know, it's Leslie Hedland who did and and like she's a playwright by training or not by like she was a playwright for many years. And it's very much I think it's based on whatever plays and it's very much written like a play, which is like I always think a lot of people don't like that, Like people love that, don't like you know, doubt or you know,

like movies like that. I kind of enjoy I love them. Yeah, like the Three Billboards you liked oh um, because I feel like that's like I guess that as a play, I know it's controver never mad don't answer, I would say I didn't. I didn't hate it. I didn't not like it because of the place. I didn't like it for other reasons, right, Yeah, that that came out so loud and I didn't mean. You're right that that is

the quintessential example. You know what else is a really good example of this closer of course, things that were literally plays. Yeah, I know, but some of them translates, they don't make sure sure, But Bachelotte succeeds on sticking to its play. Yeah, I think so. Also, Bachelorette includes James Marsden, who is also in debt to me, who is truly fine wine, Adam Scott, Adam Scott, and Adam Scott.

Fucking So have you watched any of Big littalizes this season? Okay, so I've watched all of it except I want to say, two episodes. And the reason is because basically I this, I'm not a reality TV person out and when I tell you I have, I physically I'm unable to press plan anything else in a way where I'm like, I will sit on my couch and me like, I want to watch a big Little Eyes so I can catch up. But I and I'm not able to watch anything other

than that. And I've watched three seasons in two weeks. You have been tweeting about Yeah, I liked. I was like, this is embarrassing, I like deleted. I mean, it's a part of the culture. It's I And I'm also so late to it, like I just started it recently, did I did? And I really enjoy it really, Oh my god. It's the one thing on Bravo I can't get into and I haven't tried at all. It's like, but the thing is, like I used to say this about Housewives, I was like, never getting into that, and now I'm

like so into it. It's um, it's it's it's such a trolly show. It trolls even harder than the Housewives. And I watched a few episodes yesterday and I smoked a bowl and I was like, this is the best thing. Only I'm still only in season one, but even from season I feel like once you get into I feel like once you get past like maybe the first episode and just like know the characters, I was on board. Um,

that's beautiful. I want to talk about this more. I Sudy sent me in mant of text yesterday saying, you guys have to start getting into Long Island. And I watched the first the first four episodes of season five. The current season in the UK, and it's truly phenomenal and I love it. And it's so they have real sex on it. I haven't seen any of the sex yet, but yeah, I mean there they all sleep in the same room, and and they and and they and so

every round is a different iteration of the couples. So and then you know it's it's the it's the last couple to make it to the end wins like fifty thou pounds or something. But um, the interactions are so interesting to watch and you end up getting lost in these narratives that like are unfolding and you're like, no, you can't go with that person. You're what you're supposed to be with that. Like it really is literally what

what reality television does, expertly crafted nonsense that makes you care. Literally. I watched one episode of the new season of The Bachelor of the other night with my sister and now I'm invested. Yes, yes, yes, these people are good at what they do. It's truly transcends all Like transcends to me, at least in my sort of narrow minded view of the world. Is like it transcends like racing class and

every like. It truly it's like, well, that was what the real world was, remember, it was like it was like people talking about race and class and sexuality and like blah blah. It's like and it kind of works, It kind of works, but it's also like, what's it's also like a terrible ill society that's sort of gotten us into this horrible It works until the people in charge realize they can make more money by just heightening

it to be trash. And that is why I think The Bachelor every season gets more and more trash, and what they're willing to condemn is less and less. Like, for all intents and purposes, Bachelor in parative should be fully canceled after there was a sexual harassment situation, but they realized that it gets a conversation going, and so

they just makes them money. But this is what I this is what I like about vander Pump is that it starts out trash, but not just that I don't feel bad for anyone because and I was like explaining this to someone recently, um like a psychopath. It's like I feel like with most reality shows, either you are basically like gawking at poor people or gawking at rich people.

A right man and in Vanderpump, it's like, these are people that are like in their twenties and thirties that are struggling actors in Los Angeles who do want to be on TVs, are hot, able bodied, privileged in the general sense, and that they are like, you know, straightforward the middle class, and you're just like, I feel okay being invested in their like cheating scandals and stuff, and I don't feel like I'm like, you know, exploiting someone

who like shouldn't be on TV. You And it actually occasionally will happen when when a character comes in and I do feel bad for them or they're like clearly unstable, and then I'll really not like that because it takes me out of it. But that I think that because I can't watch the bad show. I mean, I'm sure I could get into it. I'm not above it, but like that is for me why I kind of stopped watching reality TV for literally like seven years. And then this was like the first thing that there was a

point with after reality TV was born. It was like this we talked about Joe Millionaire the other like there was like Joe Millionaire, there was Survivor, there was American Idol, and then you saw all those things kind of succeed, and The Bachelor was a part of that too, and then all of those things I think got pushed to limits.

Like like when American Idol was mean, it was truly, like dangerously mean, two people with like William Hung who had something going on developmentally, like what you could say. Also like the way the way they would do the eliminations was purely just cruel and it was just like I think reality TV in that in that moment where you stopped watching it, it got pushed so far back.

Now it then got pulled back and now I think it is getting to the point where like we're almost there again where it's like, guys, it's rule of culture. Number of guys. Wait, I have a point that is very slippery and might be wrong. Here we go. I feel like good reality TV is gay camp and bad reality TV is straight camp. And I think straight camp embraces cruelty in a way that gay camp does not. Okay, here's a great example. And we brought this example up

before um Io Debris episode. Um were talked about Amro said, length this is the day that she got fired. Um Celebrity Apprentice, her, her and Pierce Morgan screaming in the back of a minivans um like Pierce Margan saying some racist at her and Rosa being like, well, you're you're in the closet and you're and you're gay and you haven't come out yet to your family and your wife hates you, and like it's that is straight camp and it's and Trump has the whole pall over that show too.

It's just like gave birth to Trump. Let's just say that. So it's just like you look at that and you're like, that's dark and bad and there's nothing good that can come of this, whereas Bander Premproles, it's like, oh, Stosse is upset at jocks for cheating and this is pure season one stuff and behind Stacy's mantic jacks for getting a porn star pargnet in Vegas, Like that's fun. I don't I don't know. It's either fun. It's either fun

or it's sucking dangerous. And I mean Trump is now dangerous, but I don't think so, Honey later actually has to do with politics. But the but the thing is like it's we see, like what the worst of this has literally given birth to and it's not funny. And and here's the thing, people who people who are trying to equate Marian Williamson with Trump. It's like, no, gay camp Trump is straight cap. That is absolutely true that Mary and Williamson is gay camp. Trump is straight cap. George

is regretting this. No, sorry, I'm like replaying the moment earlier when where you I was like the real world, like talked about racing class and it really worked. And I just want to take that back because this is what I'm saying, no, no, no, but George, it did. That's the thing is like they created something that was good for the world, and then when they realized it was more pause at it for them financially to push it to be let's put racists in here with people

of color. They did that so we can't have nice things. But that that literally, that show was good for the world. I mean, Pedro, I mean the whole HIV like like narrative, and that's what I was kind of thinking when exactly so, I think the point does stand, which is like these things, it's like it's like it gets to an excess where you're like, guys, I just want to say for now. In um Love Island is very much day camp, even though it's they've only had hetero couples, but it's gay

camp outside. Kay. So my sister watches um or watches the whole Bachelor thing. She's Bachelor Nation and she says that Bachelor and she goes to me, Bachelor in Paradise is having their first same sex couple. I said, let me guess, it's two women, she said, I said, let me guess. Um it was literally, they're both not contestants. One of them is a contestant, and they brought someone

from off the show. She's like, yeah, So basically I was like, so they co opted like a real thing in the world and brought it in just so they could say, at us, same sex couple, and and they don't dare tip their toe into anything male male nose sodomy related at all, Like it's something being in a butt, just because I feel like Real world had so many gay men, right, but it's like Bachelor real World, yes, but because real world is like still niche like Reality

and TV and Gendora. I mean it's awful. Yeah. Well, the thing is like like people were like, we need the gay Bachelor it's like, there will absolutely a percent be a lesbian bachelor red before there's a gay bachelor, because we talked about the setline on our Scott Thompson episode, but there is such a fear and disgust when it

comes to anal sex, but sex between men. It's like, to be honest with you, I'm shocked we're seeing a mainstream presidential candidate that is gay before we're seeing a lesbian presidential candidate because I like you've seen even in media, like you've seen like like so many presidents that are women have like the powerful energy and like Cherry Jones played the president on twenty four and I feel like these kind of things that are accepted, like the kind

of energy that a president has, Like if you had an effeminine male president, well it's you could never see that. Yeah, well it's because femininity is perceived right, and and that's that's that that's the whole problematic thing about it. And also like the straight men that like run the world can see through the male gaze if they're seeing like I don't when there's lesbians on television, they're like, well, I get her because she likes women like me. Because

women are hot, and actually I'm deciding this is hot. Meanwhile, where it's like two men, they're like gross gross dud um. You ever you ever get into house lives. You never got into houseves. I got. I watched the first maybe two or three seasons of Beverly Hills, which is why I had some context. Really City Underpond and then dark Yeah. Right, so that's the and that's why I stopped watching because I just like didn't like what it was doing to

my psyche. But I will say when I think of and I've missed so much at this point that I just can't jump back in. But when I think of like the episode with the dinner party where there was like that woman who's a medium with the vape, like that, to me is one of the best episodes of telling. Yeah, I mean it's it's delivered. Some of the best episodes. Is that episode is vander pump esque because it's just

like the stakes are just high enough. Anyway, I was talking to I think I was talking to Ira Madison,

Ray Sonny and Sambrasement about this. Like we were on like a little group chat called brav Hose because we all watched Bravo and they were saying that Beverly Hills used to be about like the cracks in the China, Like it was like the kind of it was really about Beverly Hills is really about like what we're hiding underneath the surface and what happens when those things really break, and that those are the people that think like the height of it was actually that those really dark times.

And then they were saying, I think it was Ray that said Lisa Rinna broke Real Housewives of Beverly Hills because she came in with her like loud energy and confrontational style and it was no longer about like I don't agree with this. I think Ranna is Cannon and I'm Ranna. But um, I think that there was a moment where and maybe it was Renna coming on that made Beverly Hills less about what we hied and more about how we stitch it out, you know what I mean?

Is it fair to say that New York is about joining the face of darkness because that's why I love New York. Well, that's an interest. Do you watch the classes in New York? It's something that you need to do. I know. No, that's what Tyler codes was saying that. He was like, you have to just watch all the reunions to catch up and then you can That's actually a really good way to do. That's a really smart way to catch up on the Housewives. He's a genius. Shout out to Tyler almost a shout out to Tyler

Coats a genius, a genius. Um, there's been some there's been some really good reunion happenings lately. I loved I loved this. I'm caught up on the reunions. By the way, did you did you? Did you like, were you like a person that watched dramatic television or would you a reality TV kid? And then how to stop? Um, that's a good question. Let me think, Yeah, like in high school you mean, um, I mean it is the blind spots because we didn't get we didn't get the American

reality shows. And I'm trying to think of like I would say, in college, I would occasionally watch like Kardashians.

Was that college that they've been around for? Ye crazy, I've definitely like when people do you remember that moment where everyone was like the Kardashians are actually smart, just like Kim Kardashian is like during that time when I was like, maybe there's something to this like that, I would like watch Kardashians and and then oh you know what, Okay, So the one channel we would get in Greece was Eyes, which I love that channel, not that as in the

one channel that had like reality so and which I think that's what Kardashians are on, right, so like so then I also would watch like things not like Denise Richards it's complicated or like things like that that were like because that is the only because we didn't get Bravo or what are the like VH one or so it was the only reality shows I watched other than like the Greek ones which also existed, were the e ones.

Did you ever watch Nicole? No waed Anna? Nicole was a reality show that you'll never see again on television. Actually literally that is an example of it getting pushed on, And I do remember that, and that that was actually that I was still living in the States when that was on. I remember, um, yeah, I was. We were like yeah, she was like one of the earliest kind of pop culture figures. I remember just like kind of

being obsessed with she was iconic. She was iconic. But now we know it's because it was for all the wrong reasons, but you and the way people treated I mean, just like anyway, um, I oh my god, wait never mind, sorry what are you looking at thinking? Because ray Sanny brought up something about um but it was but now I'm remembering that franchise was not on it it was on H one. What are you talking about? Um? The

Flavor of Love Universe? Do you ever watch favor I'm familiar with and like I feel like I've watched things those people have been on or something like they also I remember like the roast of flavor Flavor yes, yes, m and like this is all yeah, this is also.

This is actually what I wanted to talk about, was I think that we we have to establish like a code of conduct when it comes to someone being like to someone having a blind spot, because I've had just so many reactions to things that are like you haven't seen what, and like there needs to be like that needs to kick off like a protocol with like Okay, so when someone hasn't seen something that you are so like emphatically in love with or like that is so

meaningful to you, what do you say? You go Okay, Well, you should watch it, and you should and I'm gonna convince you to watch it, like, like what do you do? Like, I don't know. I'm not going to change saying, oh my god, you need to watch this if it's a protocol thing in my and something that I need to know my behavior, and I'm not saying that's inherently a bad thing to do, but like, what, like what do we do beyond that to like I think we take them to a home with a television, We sit down

and hold their hands. Well, what I would do with George is I would take him to my home. I would say you wait right here. I would go and get out the savinyond block. I would pour us both a glass and I'd say you can say whatever you want, but I'm gonna sit over here on my bed. And then I would sit on my bed and he I don't know. I think it would take him a while

to get this is getting very hot. This is horny. Um. Okay, wait, this actually reminds me of a time where I did have someone to come over my apartment and then I thought we were going to hook up. We ended up watching TV and I sat in the bed and they sat him in the and I was like, no, you didn't even sit next to each other. No, And it was it was just like it ended up being an it's fun time watching television, which is fine, which is fine, which is fine. That's okay, it's okay. What's your boy

situation right now? Um? Wait, it's crazy that you asked me that because last or yesterday, which was famously my birthday, literally happy birthday. I also because of that, I'm in a very self reflective mood. Very good. What age did? Wow? You are young, aren't you? Guys? Literally my age? I'm I'm twenty nine? Okay, wow, but I can't believe you were twenties. Don't know you were young. I'm it's fucking cool. I don't mean a lot of people that are younger

than me. O. Um what what's what's the self? Um wait? Noo? Boys don't I have? Like no, but no. The only the thing I was going to say is that my ex was at my birthday wearing the exact shirt Bowen is currently wearing, which I love, which is what the robin, which is the robin and the black or the white? It was the white. I bought it in the white almost about it in the white is what? So wait, okay, I this is not interesting, but I um was recently in London and I saw her in London, so it

was incredible. And it was because so I think all the days she did in New York were at like it was no, no, no, no no, no, it was at some ballroom, was like at some smaller venue than Barclay's. Right, I thought it was Barclay's. I thought you did MSG

a while ago and then came back to Barkley. We literally just right, but before these these shows that we saw, it was yes, yes, So the place so where I went to in London was a g A only venue, so it was perfect because I literally paid much less than anyone paid, you know, to see her, and I was like it like it was like people standing. I was like and I was like right in the middle, and it was like a just like probably one of the best trends on the concert going experience in my life.

And it was also just like cool to see her in like a different country, like it for something really and it was my best friend lives in London, so it was like perfect, like I was visiting her anyway, but you were interned National right into your national fest. She's American, she's just married a British guy. She I like, she's a college friend. She married a British guy. Oh my god. He has a college friend who was American married a British man and he was raised in Greece. Hello,

did you consider yourself a traveler? Um? Honestly no, because it's okay in this weird, counterintuitive way. I feel like I actually travel less than if I didn't have like non American parents, because the traveling I do is to visit my family family, and you can't really your options

are limited. Yeah, Like I have a weird I was thinking of this today, Like I have such a weird guilt about all of us going to Fire Island this year because I don't actually take a lot of vacations that are not that I can't somehow combine with visiting family because everyone I see right now. So I have

two younger sisters, so I'm very close to. One of them lives in California, one of them lives in Munich in Germany, and my parents are in um Luxembourg because they left grace like God, and so that's what everything is planned around. My life is so difficulty though. Wait, um, so how are you feeling emotional? Cut that out? What I already came. I made myself come with my own mode. Oh, readers, lets tell me what you think about this. Readers, here's mine,

Here's mine. I don't like that. I was like, you smelled a beautiful pie. I'm not participating. Don't you want to have sex? If you want to have sex, you have to do sex. You have to send out the pheromones. Okay, America, as we've discussed as not ready for anal Yeah, to get them ready. We never had sex. Speaking of international fish, Little Max, Wait, hold on, I just want to really quickly put out there what Ray Sonny said and scholarly take on love Ray and she knows she has the

scarly takes here. Here we go. She says, we would probably still be living in the Flavor of Love universe and wouldn't have love and hip hop if the psycho who made final three on Megan Wants a Millionaire didn't kill his girlfriend and himself. That's insane. Yeah, we might not have had Cardi B if it weren't for that man who murdered his girlfriend and interesting Ray famously, someone who told me she was coming to my birthday party

and did not. Oh's you, guys, The only Matt of everyone that's been mentioned today is the only person who sent me a very nice message saying I'm sorry, I can't I can't make it. And I was, but I did also said. I said, we're going to celebrate tomorrow. Yes, yes, I was saving my load. Fucking we're going to spend days together. Now, he's going to come all over you in the house. He was saving. We're gonna We're gonna be sitting on a on a wooden dock just watching

the sunset. Are you excited about rock Hard? Are you excited about Fire Island? Okay, something I've never been. It's gonna be so you're gonna have a lot of fun. I think you're gonna like it's really what you may give it. I think we we're going at the good people that are our group. That's what I was. I'm like, I feel like very safe and comfortable with everyone in our house. It's fun to go down to what is it called high TI or low TI. And I also feel like I don't feel since I you guys have

been so many times and I've never been. I don't feel like embarrassed or insecure about not knowing, like I feel like with all of you, I can be like tell me what should I do to like what are we doing today? And just like follow along and I'm gonna be posted up by the pool laying in the sun. I'm not speaking. I love that, my, my, my, already. My favorite part of the trip is sunsets, sunset on the on the dock and just dangling your legs over the water with your friends and taking a picture in

Golden hour. Um, wait, okay, this, I hope this is funny. But my hope this is funny. When I was and I can't believe I keep bring him up, but when I was dating my ex, his dad had this thing with sunsets where he was so intense about everyone's eyes being at the sun right at the moment when it goes to the point where it became like a traumatic.

It's like then everyone in his family actually like associated sunsets with stress because they would think of his dad just being like, don't take your eyes up the sunset. Don't take your eyes up the sunset like that. That's really that's literally straight camp. You have to stare up the sunset. Don't tell me he's a very sweet man. But no, I just found that very funny. I don't think he sounds sweet at all. He's canceled and you have you The way you have put portrayed him on

this podcast is not so sweet. I don't think I like you talking about this X Yeah, I will stop. I I am. I need to talk about my extent. Not only did I talked about him twice in this podcast, I talked about him before we started recording with your producer. I just looked down on my phone and I had a text from my act I love that. So this is the point um in the in the show George, where we asked the question what was the culture that

made you say culture was for you? And we've discussed a lot of your formative culture or lack thereof, but I'm curious to hear what you what you think looking back on yourself, was this culture that made you say maybe culture? Wait? Okay, I have a really good answer for Oh, no one ever really said lead with that because I was first of all, I was I'm so, I was so unprepared for this. I was like walking here and I was like, wait, funk I have to do and I don't think so, but then it just

like came to me, So I'll just say what it is. Um, I was obsessed with the Olympics growing up, and it wasn't right, yes, so this is what. So it wasn't as a surprise to no one. It's not the sporting events that really got me, but it's like the pageant and the kind of like anyway, So so my thing is that in two thousand four they were in Athens and it was the first time they were back in Greece since the first modern Olympics. And I went to

the opening ceremony. Wow. And so that to me and okay, so I don't know if you literally I'm not kidding. I still occasionally watch it on YouTube. The Athens opening cerements describe it. So it is basically a very like What I love about it is that it is obviously

pure spectacle. I mean, it is an opening ceremony of the Olympics, but it is the most kind of and I hate to use the word tasteful because it kind of has like weird cultural connotations, which but it's like the most minimalist version of a spectacle in a way. That's like both meant for Greek people watching and meant to kind of export certain cultural elements outward into the world,

which is what it shouldn't be. And basically it's I mean, it starts with all this kind of gorgeous imagery, like you go, you went into the stadium and the bottom was filled with water kind of, And so it starts with this giant paper like oregony is not the right word, but like a you know, a folded paper sailboat. So it's like this giant paper sail but which is a

very Greek thing. It's like a thing that like Greek grandfathers will like make out of a napkin or something and give us like and there's like a Japanese people invented foldings. Um. I was the other day I was thinking about when we were at somewhere was that Max's party, and at someone I was just like, I want to tattoo of an origami sailboat. And then everyone was like, oh, I don't remember that. Oh I do remember you saying

that anyway, because I would love that, thank you. So anyway, so it starts with that, and what I meant was that kind of and so it's and then there's like a little Greek kid waving a Greek flag, and then there's like this other thing where like these this giant statue here is out of nowhere, and then it breaks into a like seven pieces, and then inside it is a statue of like the next iteration of Greek statues. So it starts with like a minimalist kind of like face.

Then it's like the like a body with like the limbs missing kind of like Middle period or whatever, and then it's like something more complex, so it's like the

history of like Greek sculpture. And so then the main event is that there was basically almost like a parade with floats kind of of Greek art starting with like the earliest Greek art all the way to like present day and it you know, there were there were like, um, you know, kind of shirtless men painted like gray that had like that looked like you know, Greek statues or whatever.

Then there was like famously, the first person to appear was this woman who was kind of like a goddess of fertility type and she had like her boobs out, but they were painted like like completely white with like black nipples, so it looked very kind of surreal um and and it was just I mean, think of the simplest thing is just literally like a collection like a parade, a floats. So it's so simple, but it just says so it's it tells like the entire history of like

the Greek civilization. Um. And So the other thing is that I realized much later that it is directed by this Greek choreographer who is queer and so and it kind of like clicked, and I was like, all of this is so queer. It is the most queer possible. First of all, Greek culture itself is so gay in a way that's like so obvious, and there's such a sense of denial about it in any kind of like mainstream Greek like conversations about it, which is so frustrating,

like all the famous like Greek artists, Greek poets. It's like there's so much queerness in that stuff and no one addressed it anyway. That's a whole other topic. But but the guy that anyway, So yeah, so this guy uh is queer. And another person who was on the creative team of the production was Yogos Lankimos, so crazy like as a young he was probably like in his I don't know, thirties twenties, you and I have so interesting, um so, and another one is this, oh god, I

even forgetting her name. Athena something, who's another who then went on to become a famous Greek director as well and did a lot of kind of like movies that were that are in this um have you seen dog Tooth? It's Alms. It's like Lanthimos is first movie that was nominated for the Foreign Film Oscar, so he kind of

exists in the same vein as her. Of like it was called the Greek weird Wave, and it was like a series of movies and kind of like basically during the beginning of the Greek financial crisis that we're dealing with it from a very like um kind of like crazy surrealist perspective. Just I mean it's like dog Tooth, it's like, um just very just like strange and fucked up story rights as a way to deal with like the procarity of the financial crisis. I'm not articulating this well,

but like that's basically what it was anyway. So she was on the creative team as well, and it just like obviously I didn't understand a lot of this stuff as a however old I was, But it's one of those things that you responded to. Why I didn't say what the best part was? Are you ready for this?

It all builds up to b York. Yes, I remember this getting and you know, getting in there, and then she's in the red she know she was, and then unfolding address that covers the entire stadium that what that is? I do not remember? Oh my god, yeah I remember, Sorry I read things something different? Um, yes, because I was like there's there's like there's isn't there something with cloth or something that was? And then connection that she

had to Greece. It was I think it was just that the people organizing this just really good taste, just like this. And she sang a song that was called like Oceania, which is from I can't remember which elements from, but but it's obviously a song about the ocean. So it's like in like whatever, um, but but I mean for it to end with that, just like do we remember was that a Phelps moment? That was his first? It might have been it might have been his first.

Oh wait, was he in Sydney? He was not in Sydney. I think Athens was his first. Beijing was like like Beijing in London, where like Peak, I want to say, yes,

I feel like every was like the beginning. Every Summer Olympics is like divine defined by a specific hot swimmer, right, like there was Ian Thorpe from Australia and then there was like Ryan ry of it all was something we tried to get behind so hard and then we all had to be like, no fail, there was was there like a hot swimmer for for Brazil that like, yeah it was it was Ryan Locktey because remember he got in all that trouble, like that wasn't his. It wasn't

like a star is born. Like they truly tried to make it. They tried to make it his moment because it was like kind of no longer Ryan, I mean Michael felt but then when he turned out to be such a true idiot. Yeah, like we all had to be like, oh, never mind me not only a national embarrassment and I'll never forget the iconic culture that is

Al Roker being like on the Today's Show. I think it was like fully Matt Lower being like you know, give him, give him a break, and Roker was literally like no, yeah, yeah, we're not going to give him a break. Fucked up. And then him on third year was that after London was that after that was? That was when he had goodwill and he was like in on the joke and it made you like him for him to be like to be called the sex Oh

my god. Um. I actually think his reality show may have been on the Roers Ryan I was still on the Yes, Ryan Lafty did, and I believe he was also on some reality show that was like watch them fuck sort of right, just watch them like literally anything anything with like dealist celebrity is in a house where they're all like hot and barely famous. I'm like, oh, this is a watch them, this is a show. We're gonna like watch two of them like sort of flirt for a little while and then we're going to be

like Moon date book. And this is the intelligence that Bone was talking about, is that you just I'm serious And this is what I love about your sense of humor is that that is such a mad thing to say that you just summed up all of that with that's so watching them, Well, I accept that. There you go. Thank you so much. It's great. To know that I have a voice. Huh, it's actually really culture number eleven.

It's great to know that I have a voice. Uh, George, I relate to you watching the opening ceremonies on YouTube very hard because I do that for Beijing all the time. I did not have the privilege of being there like you were, but oh my god, you were there that it was like I mean, I would say to this day, like you know, when I think of any kind of live performance, like it was also like a lot of first I mean it's literally that was the first live

musical performance, like the first quote unquote concert. So the idea that like, as a you know, eleven twelve year old, the first person I ever saw live was York It's just like, you know, street cred for yourself so silly because I did not have like I was not um like in the middle one high school, someone who was like Indian head sophisticated taste like at all like I had I was. I mean, obviously I had all these blind spots was one reason. But I also just like

didn't I wasn't that deep a thinker? The sure sure who was the first live concert you saw? Finally, finally, enough Imagine and Heat. Was it really paramount theater in Denver? I mean, I like my parents didn't really let me go to I beg every year to go to see Blank Oneitdo or something. Parents to be like no um. And then Image and Heat. I went with a bunch of a bunch of friends from high school and loved it. Yeah,

she's great, It's great, it's great live. Yeah. My first concert was Maria right that and I this reads for all of us in a deep way. I just want to say, sure this you seeing b York, thank you and me Mariah Carey love that. I love how that reads for all that. I love you know. Which opening ceremony I I rewatch a lot is London because I'm so that they made Spice such a huge part of it. Well, that was closing ceremonies, was it, Spices were closing ceremonies.

Clothing is always like more fun like because I also went to the closing ceremony Nethans and that was like also super enjoyable because they brought out like all the basically like all of the famous Greek musicians and pop stars and they were exactly they were all the and like my favorite there's a Greek pop star named on a VC. She's kind of like the Madonna of Greece.

And actually Theta ham Will also really loves um and we've bonded over but um so they brought her out and they were all these kind of like older women, kind of like sophisticated women that were like they made a mockery of like how they brought out pop stars. This is Athens, like this is the Olympic Games, and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, well it's gotta

be fun for everyone. And I think that's like part of why they brought the Spice Girls out at those ceremonies, because it's truly, like, it's so funny to me that, like the United Kingdom, it was like, okay, we have like only so much to do, we have and we're going to give the Spice Girls ten minutes. And they came out and rode around on top of cars and they were like, get up out of your check. Was it all five of them? It was all five of them.

I hate when it's not all it's literally it's not all five honestly, just like punched me in the face. It's never going to be all five of them never again, obviously. But the thing is like, and I get it, like her reason for not wanting to do it is like, literally, if you could boil it down to one sentences, you guys, I can't sing. It's just she doesn't want to do it anymore after doing it for that long. Like I get that she's busy with other stuff, but it's like

she knows she's bad at it. Well she also so it's not just I mean, yes, it's literal singing, but it's also like I don't think she likes performing. Yeah, I don't think she likes being on a stage and entertaining people. When I was watching the performance, which i've I've actually watched it a bunch lately because they are a gag to me, like the Spice Girls. No, no, no, it's just so funny to watch Posh execute choreo because

she's doing it, but she's obviously so on autopilot. And I realized, like when you look back at the Spice Girls, which I believe we talked about this on our episode with Korean and Christina, but my favorite thing about Posh always is how over it she was and how little she did. Like there's that iconic scene in Spice World where they're doing the obstacle course and the reveal that she's just just walking around the side, Like I love that.

I think it is so funny, just like the like couldn't be bothered nous of it, Like I love that about her, And so now for her to be like I'm actually not coming, it's almost like, yeah, her home. Yeah. Wait, it's so funny that we're talking about the Space Girls because literally my second choice of what I was going to bring up as my thing, but I was like, people have done that and it actually we've actually only talked about it once and for some reason cosmically, I

think probably because this happened in astrology. Um, I have been watching a lot of Spice Girls media on YouTube lately, Like I'm kind of re obsessed with the whole Jerry, Like, it's so crazy to me that she just up and did that, and now they're still they will still all gladly sit down and do long interviews about it, like and now the reveal that like Scary Spice Melby and Ginger Spice story how Abell hooked up, Like do you believe that? Yeah? I believe Okay, wait, I think they

ate each other's and think that's what they did. I think they ate each other's pussy, and then they were like, hi, see yeah, I think they went. I think they went, hi, see you keep smelling that damn pie, dam bird. We should say on the pod. My mom texted me and she said, this is this is separate, this is mom culture. Could Christina, I mean, oh my god, Christie, that's my aunt Trina Claritas Rogers texted me and said, I was on the beach eating a sandwich and a bird came

and snatched up myself. A single came and snatched up my sandwich. Damn period no no no space exclamation point space space, damn bird smelled d A m M. So now whenever we we are never me and Bowen are just never there's too much silence, will just turned to each other and go, dam bird. I think it goes on a shirt. I think it goes I think it goes on it's it's it's merch da bird. Wow. I think it's time. Is it time? It's time? It might

be time for I don't think so, honey. So you did not come prepared, but do you have something now? I thought I thought of sunning. But it's just not gonna be. I mean, listen, I've done two of these before, and if I do say so myself, did you always do an amazing job and in fact, as the kids say, you, in fact slay and go off queen queen. But it will be kind of a more rough, a rough one. But all right, So I have mine and I classically do go first. I have mine, and but classically macus first.

This is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so many as time starts now, I don't think so, honey, George Conway, leave your fucking wife. She is a troublodyte broom thank you Bowen Yang, who is literally aiding in the betting and helping at all costs to her soul the president of the United States. And I don't think so, honey. You getting on your fucking Twitter and being like Trump this Trump that fuck Trump Trump. You know how you send a message leave your fucking wife, who is a monster.

I cannot take you seriously at all. And I really fucking hate this public battle that you're having with your wife. I don't think so, honey. Fucking work it out at home or fucking send a message that you don't support this by walking out on her because she is at all all costs trying to keep him in office and she hurts people. You are a fucking weak person, and don't think that we're respecting you for getting on your Twitter and then being like low key, we don't talk

about it at all. Fuck you leave Kelly and Conway, who is viciously evil. I don't think that's one minute. So um, that's that's that's You're going after both of them. But you're telling me I don't. I don't think it's even appropriate to do. I don't think it's only Kelly and Conway because it's such evil and it's such it's such like racist trash. But this guy action is for George to leave. Yeah. Hello, It's like you're telling me you can respect her. You're telling me you can go

home with her every day. You guys raised children together. What is going on? It's disgusting. And when she asked that reporter, what's your ethnicity? If that's what we're at in this country, which it obviously is, and you can go home every day with your fucking dignity, get out

of that. It's the fact that she has a significant spouse who is in the public figure who is so against the administrat Like that's that's what's bumping, and that is the reality television that I am not signing up for because it's not a fucking joke like any any any other any other you know, person on his staff like like like their significant others are like fine, like as long as they're on the same I'm bublically hashing

this out. I assume that they're all kind of like co signing it and as long as like and like, I'm sorry, but like it goes beyond Like we don't talk about politics at home. It's like we're beyond that at this point, Like it is personal. And I'm so tired of going on Twitter and seeing his seeing his stuff retweeted. It's like that's her husband, you guys, Like no, and honestly, yeah, like I guess I don't know. I guess some people take their fucking vows pretty seriously. That's

a little too serious for me. Okay, wow, Wow, I have nothing to add if you did us something that do you know what? As we were talking about an email that was like I'm doing this. I won't say what show it is, but I'm doing some show where like there's like a producer and an assistant and whatever and it's like a whole fucking thing and they're and

they're like it's sold out. We're so excited and it's like a big And I just got an email from the head person that was like, if anyone has a camera, we can borrow to film the show, like let us know, asking the comedian. Comedian. So just like your job is nothing is real, Like it's just like nothing is actually serious. No, well this, well politics is serious, and our national situation actually is very serious. Okay, that's why I do my

I don't think so, honey. So now it's time and his time will as a matter of fact, and it will start right now. I don't think so. Any Snapple facts, which it's the information age, and you are not pulling your weight, honey. I don't need to know that snails don't sleep. I'm just making them up. I mean, any any little tidbit, little bite of copy that's on like a rapper or a cap I don't you know what someone gets paid to do that, and that there's that

should not be a job anymore. And there's there's no use for me to read off a Dove chocolate wrapper of some positive affirmation. For someone to walk away from one of these caps or rappers and think that they've that their day has been improved, that they've they've walked away with some earned extra knowledge or something that then they leave, they lead an unfulfilled life. And I think they have to find the other fifteen of knowledge of

insight in books. We have to return to books. And until you can print a whole book on a Snapple cap or a Dove chocolate rapper, I don't think so, honey, those little copywriter people just typing away and getting a paycheck. My problem is they're not all facts. They're not necessarily all true. And this is and I'm gonna I'm gonna come from my own culture. Fortune cookies, I don't think so, honey, What are you doing? It's not all fortunes? Okay? What

about Chipotle cups? Cups? I love it because sometimes they'll sometimes it'll be by George Saunders, or sometimes it'll be by you know, fucking some you know Sarah vowel right of the paragraph on a Chipotle cup and will be like, yes, work, Sarah, get that check. See the thing is like you never know when you open a fortune cookie whether you're getting a fortune or something. That's a little kind of adage. Yes,

you know what I mean. Anyway, if that, if my reference of George Saunders and Sara Vow was a intelluxtory superior, I'm sorry to you feel that way, but um, you know that's that's just like George. There's two Georges. Meant George Conway and George Spectrum. When I started my I don't think so, honey, and said I don't think so, honey, George, And before I said the last name, were you nervous? Yes,

I thought, well not nervous. I mean I thought we were gonna make a joke about something I said during the episode, and I was like, no, what did I say that? What you think? What do you think people would do? And I don't think so, honey, George, Sara's about oh um, roast yourself. Well, I mean, let's see, I really thinking about it. No, I am, because there's an obvious one and I don't want to say it. And the obvious one is that I've spent a year

talking about a breakup and I know, I know. But then the other thing is I feel like I talk about everything I talked in this episode, Like I talked about being Greek a lot, so what I talk about. People also get mad when I'm like, this is my friend from grad school. And then they're like, okay, grad school, that's a problem. That's a problem with them. And then I'm like, are you suppled to say that's my friend not from grad school? It's happening to me yesterday anyway, whatever,

but who was? Fuck everyone else? It's actually full of culture number two, Fuck everyone else. Sometimes you have to say things with an extra flavor. Come on with the flavor and George, are you ready whatever? Yes, I'm ready, Okay, this is yeah, let's we'll see how it goes. We'll see how goes. This is George. I think so many time starts. Now, I don't think so, honey. People who call their own opinions unpopular, okay, you have an unpopular opinion.

How some verses how grave? Okay, let's call it the New York Review of Books. Someone has to write an op ed about their controversial favorite ice cream flavor. Shall we get a fireside chat going at the New School with Masha guess seconds um And while we're at it, I don't think so, honey. People who say, what's your hottest take about x Y? What is your hottest take about queer video game characters? Bitch kill you? Um, that's all I have to say. I don't think so, honey.

People who call their own opinions unpopular. It's true. It's like they're it's like this ing of like when people step forward and say I'm a singer, it's like I'll judge that, Oh yeah, you better sing first, and then we'll say, if you're a singer, unpopular opinion, Oh you know after I hear it. But um, and this is I was gonna say how popular it is with me? Unpopular opinion is another way of saying Devil's advocate. And I was going to say Devil's advocate. Is it just

a way? A little bit? It's self awareness to be like, I know what I'm about to say is like not great. Yeah, like I'm gonna turn some heads with this. Yeah. Well, it's also like you know, um, defining what you think in terms of what other people think, which is already is actually a week position to take. Like it's just like I don't respect your intellectual project because it doesn't stem from an actual belief. It stems from you wanting

to be contrarian. But let's say we're sitting in a circle, we're just cracking jokes, and you know, one of us says, bad joke or bad pitch blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, and I hate you hate that. I hate this is a bad blank but I really don't like it because because it's like, now I'm ready for this bad thing. Yes, but it's also it's also sort of a defensive, a defensive thing for the person saying it to be like, I understand that this is not my

best right, but I mean, I guess, I guess. Then I don't like the atmosphere that allows that, because I think that we should just understand that all things are pitches, and I think we should we should not just like demands an atmosphere where everything comes in perfect, because literally nothing ever is. I always say, which is am I

getting read? I'm always like what? No, I'm just like this is something that really bothers me, Like this this idea that like we're not in a room that's supposed to be creative together, like we're all supposed to get here and like already know exactly like you don't know?

Thank you? Yeah, now I am. I do that all the time, and I hate it in myself and it's like and I would I always say it would just so awful is I'll be like, let's say we're like brainstorming title for you know, this podcast, and I'm like and I'll be like, um, what about okay, not this?

But and then I'll say something because I want to be like, you know, in this direction, but I haven't actually thought of like, well, I kind of like not this, but because it's like it's saying I'm pitching an area for us to go, not well, this is really bad and I'm not even sorry for saying it, but like it's like, no, this is like you been too many words, so I was, so you don't hate it when people say that you hate the it's it's as you said before,

just you don't like the environment that encourages that. I hate these sort of like self indulgent thing of like so this is gonna be really bad, but I don't like that. And I also think that is a The reason that exists is because someone are scared and there's been an impression that like you better come with the perfect thing, right, and I think, like, not this, But there is a difference there, you know what I mean.

It's like putting saying not this, but is putting clay on the table and then you're gonna mold it into something that's gonna be good. Exactly, exactly exactly. Yeah, it all comes down to I guess how creative environment are run. Yes, absolutely, now I really really is. If you can tell by my little moans my phone eating got really horny this episode. Yeah, well I think that. Well, the good news is we are literally leaving for a fire island and three days

it's going to come everywhere sexually active? Do you guys want to be very I actually have not decided like or not just that, but like I haven't decided what kind of experience I'm trying to manifest. Do you know what I mean? I want to fall in love. I don't know either, Georgia laughs, I don't know either. But what else can I reveal? I'm seeing someone since when? Since recently? Okay? But then is this and I don't know if I want a couple people literally kicking your legs.

If I haven't seen this, is this a recent development that was there a conversation that was recently had there was like a little tiny thing said that I'm just saying in my own brain like, well, I guess what, I'm not trying to that, man, I'm so happy for you. I even had plans tonight to see someone else and I think I have TEX and be like, actually, I'm sorry, it's not I'm not interested in that. That's crazy. That's

so cool. I feel bad for that person a little bit, but I mean, yeah, but the thing is like he has to bite the bullet for the greater good of the world, which which yes, and the greater good for the world and you being with someone in to an exclusive level precludes But the thing is it's not even exclusive because we haven't discussed it being exclusive. I'm just

deciding for myself. I'm actually cool. I actually don't need it, and I think that's actually going to make Fire Island way more pleasant and taking it off the table helps me so much. What you're describing is so that is exactly what I would like. That is such a me thing. Yeah, just being like we don't have to excuse to not have the anxiety, and honestly, once you take that anxiety off the table. You actually, I'm going to say, are free because and I honestly think I wish that it

didn't have to be. Well, I'm sort of seeing someone now to to do that, because I honestly think, I honestly think I have been more comfortable in spaces where sex was on the table, or like dating was on the table. When I've literally said I don't care. Yeah, of course you got to throw the deuce is up in the air and say I actually don't care. And it is cosmic. It is a cosmic thing. Your energy is more inviting then when you're like tens Mortimer, Hello,

do you sorry? How do you um? I'll read? I want to just really swerve the narrative back in my direction. Come on, take it, bitch. I want to fall in love. Yes, you can, you do, and you should and you deserve. I just had this, you know where I'm at, where I just had this this really intense thing recently in the last couple of days that I'm just like I just want to like sort of like wash, you don't want it. I don't think I want it? Okay, that's fine. How what are like, how do you go about like

when we're all there together, are there opportunities? Yes? Like well absolutely yes, Just like what would what would an ideal uh narrative look like for you? Of like, where would you want to meet someone? How do you want it to happen? Be anywhere? Literally describe your dream date scenario at Fire Island? Okay, go, um, you know maybe we're sharing a substance and something to tell your grandkids. Yes, absolutely, and then we talk and we go for what. I

literally don't. I don't have any sort of parameters on this. I just want to fall no, you know what. And here's what I think happen at any moment, especially real culture number twelve, happen at any moment. Well, I'm just like I for some reason, I'm divorcing the love part from the sex part. I don't think I need to have sex with anybody because I get you don't because I've done it on fire. It's that was awful and

I did not get anything out of that. There's this like, um, what's the shape of a chart I'm thinking of when it's like when there are Yeah, it's like, well, it's like when there are when there are two, there's like a sweet spot of like just enough kind of a horny game in around me where I am then also horny and then are different. But that's that's absolutely not

what I'm talking about. You talk from the Greek parabolus. Yeah, but then when there are then when I'm like in a giant party of all like sweaty bodies, it's like I'm a sexual. There's there's nothing less horny to me than bags of meat blopping around to music. Was like thereoo, it's like void of anything. And also all I need. If I see one person that's like too drunker, too high, who has just like kind of a debt in the eyes, look that immediately, I'm just like, oh god, this is

like a scene from Skins. Yes, it's like it's like from Euphoria. From Euphoria have watched I've watched the pilot and I want to keep watching. I've heard that it is stunning and apparently Zendia is the real you know what I was gonna. I saw you. I'm sorry you tweet about this, and and what was it that you? I said, we have no choice, but I said, I said, interesting development that we may have no choice, and it is I didn't see it coming because she was a punchline. Yeah,

I'm sorry, but she was. She was not even in a mean way, but just kind of like, you know, the kind of like trying to make Zendea happen like greatest Showman. Like it was just like, oh, God, get her again, and she is really good in this. I also think you always have to take someone with a grain of sqult when they come at you from a very early age with one name. It's so very that it's like so clearly you think you're an icon, that you think this is going to be a one name thing.

Because her last name is what Coleman? Oh my god, I did not know that. I think she's got like a normal ass last name. H p A. Do you know we're on it that um? But I think her last name is something straight up from down the block. Dia Coleman also is like a good name. Yeah, you could easily be a celebrity with that name. You can easily be a celebrity with that names Undia Coleman is actually a really coaching number fifty. You can easily. But she chose to have one name, and that is sort

of a red flag. And then you slay the pilot of Euphoria. I've gotten so many texts being like, you need to watch Euphoria Hunter Shaffer. It really I was about to say, she has really kind of been breaking out and is very smart. Area an interview with her recently. Also mad Apatow is in it. Yes, in it. She wasn't in the pilot. She wasn't the pilot deferred. She was. She was the friend who when the day and goes to her friend's house. She's a friend new creature at

the door. Um, anyway, I have might no, Actually, can I say? This is exactly what you say? It say it. This is the scene that needs to happen for me to fall in love on Fire Island. Ready, I have to be sitting on the dock next to this person while the sun sets. I have to tell them, look, look at the sunset. Look at the sunset right now, look at it right now. You can't look away, you can't look away. So, so, George, I'm sorry that you're out of the running and your your friend. Actually, so

it'll be with him. What's his name? Full name? Okay, do you want hath crazy? It rhymes with Zendia. I'm not kidding. Was he swear to god, I'm not kidding's really Oh my god. Maybe the title of this episode is rhymes with zendeia I think the time. I think that's good. I love that that found the title. I love this episode. This is a great episode because it served the culture. It's honestly, it served the I mean,

Greece was the first culture. I remember when we made the list of the top ten cities of culture and actually Athens snuck in there and London, London, which was controversial in the moment. Yeah, yeah, so thank you for bringing Athens. Had such a great time enjoy I'm so excited we get to spend a week together. I know that'll be really fine, and I'll be very much I'm in a different house, but I'll be very much the Kimmy Gilbler slash Steve step and arcle of the house.

I will kind of come over. Yeah, we're also still going to fill one room in our house spots when this comes out in August. Just know that three weeks prior we really straveled to fill out in that house. And um, I'll keep you posted if I fall. I know we're gonna hear updates. I wanted to be real with the listeners. I know, I know, I know. Um, here we go. Let's let's close it the song as we always do. That is who well was being fun your dog and convince. I am the same. But if

you give it up, maybe let each other. Oh my god, look at the sunset, look at don't look. I don't look. I don't look like This has been a Forever Dog production executive produced by Brett Boham, Joe Cilio, and Alex Ramsey. For more original podcasts, please visit Forever Dog Podcasts dot com and subscribe to our shows on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

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