"Much Like Smaug..." (w/ Mary Holland)

closet for like two and a half months. It's since September, and today I felt like the great day to break it out. It really is. I mean we are in December, um and as sort of as we've been undone, you're sort of like wrapping yourself back up, you know what I mean? Um? And so this is very seasonal and I think mine just just came and it went to my parents house on accident. But I have my cardigans did arrive. I wish I could join you, but it's not in the state of California. That's a tragedy. It's

really tragic. It's tragical. It's tragical. It's not that comfortable. I'll say, maybe it's because my skin is not reacting well with there. I don't know what what what the material is, can I Darling? I don't think the problem is your skin. I think the problem is, you know, really mass marketing and the fact that I don't think a lot of care went into that. I really don't. You want to take that back? Because Taylor Swift herself designed this is the story. Did she sort of created

herself or did you who? I want to know whose hands went into making it, whose labor really wasn't She had a gray colored pencil, a black colored pencil, and then she sketched out a schema or as schema something. She sketched out something and then you could say anything and I'd be like, yeah, her team was like, yeah, let's do it. So And do you think she was inspired by the two different colored pencils. Yeah, I think it was like a Coco Chanelle thing, you know Chanel.

It's like it's like mostly black and white. Because she was she was in an orphanage or anunnery or whatever, and so she was known for her austerity. I think I think Taylor was inspired by that. You know, so um with that all being said, it's not very warm. No, it's warm, it's just not comfortable because on my skin it's it's an it's irritating. I have to tell you. It looks really good. I don't know about that either.

I'm not a cardigan person. I never was. I just I thought it'd be funny for me to wear this because, um, I think it's lesbian culture. And I'm happy you brought up lesbian culture. Well before we talk about the the lesbian culture, I think I let's just catch up on cultural stuff this. There's so much and it reminded me that I want to say a disclaimer before you get

into this. I want to say a disclaimer for the pod going forward, If an episode of television or film has come out, here we go by the time this episode of Last Cultures gets released, and going forward, if any episode of Last Culture gets released and media that is discussed has been released and it's been out for more than a day and you have time to consume it, this is a spoiler area. Okay, So what we're gonna end up talking about is the undoing. You know we're

gonna be talking about undoing. Our guests, as excited as I knew she was our guests is a big consumer of the culture. Yes, and I just want to say we're gonna be discussing this and other things on the show, such as you wouldn't believe what I'm watching. I'm watching a Teacher on Hulu with Kate Mara and Love Simon. I'm watching Staved by the Bell. I watched Olive Stayed by the Bell. I'm on my second viewing. It's my favorite thing. But primarily the undoing has been fully undone,

and we gotta, we gotta. I'll talk about it together. I think we'll talk about together. Um, but let's you and I talk about the flight attendant, which I'm loving. I am loving the flight attendant. I think it is what I would call goole f. It's what I would call gooffy. It's goofy um. And how do you spell that? G o O P g e o o P. And you think it's gonna stop at goop, but then you'd be thrown hut there and honey, it goes g o

o P h y. Oh my gooffy. You know. I read someone someone I think it was like a Holly reporter that wrote a review of the first three episodes, and I love this so much, they said. Whoever wrote this said, it's a show that's very aware of how disposable it is, Like, you watch it once, you're never gonna watch it again. Me, dude, great to know about yourself.

I know, well know, but I agree though, Like I think it's a show that knows it's like just fun goes down so easy, it's so easy to it's relatively easy to follow, great performances. I would say, I'm kind of blown away by what she ended up being capable of. That Kaylee, that Kaylee Quoco, Kaylee Quoco feels like very sis head culture to me, which I love. I just never engaged with Kaylee, but now I'm like, she's never I know, but now she's like moving queer of center,

I think, And I really like this. I love a little bit queer of center, which, which of course, um is is that left or right is to be queer of center. I think being queer of center just it's a circle, so it just means you're moving away from the center of the circle. I think to be queer means to be south north of center, Okay, And that's actually rule of culture to be queer means you are south south or north of center center and that's sort

of spring, summer, more, summer, more more September joggers. Um but anyway, Um, yes, thrilled with with the flight attendant. Um, did you so? I guess you? I guess because of being on Saturday Night Live the Sketch Show, you sort of didn't get the opportunity to audition for the gay Shane in the show. Oh no, we see the flight attendant, the gay flight attendant. Yes, he's wonderful. He booked it.

I I celebrate him and every gay friend that books because I did go out for this part, and um, I go I I. I just want to celebrate my sister who who booked it. I don't know his name, but I just want to say in the show is doing an amazing job. And I always want to celebrate the gay in the show because it's hard out here for the gay in the show, and oftentimes there's only one, but not in the piece of culture that our guest

is dare we say it, responsible for? Very responsible for well, you and you and our guests have crossed paths in a very acrimonious way over the summer. First of all, this is a huge week first Survivor huge. It's on Netflix just like if, as if we needed something else to pile on. I'm watching Heroes Versus Villains again. Keikey Palmer is tweeting about it. Oh God, and our guest is wearing her above Yeah, don't know, forget it. The guest is so just background for some of them, maybe

the newer readers who haven't been around during quarantine. But famously the story goes the quarantine hit. We got a little obsessed with Survivor, me a little bit more so than bo I got so says that I joined a Survivor quarantine addition and our guest. I was very excited because our guest was also a contestant. At some point along the way, I thought the guest was my ally, and she just stabbed me in the back and I deserved And the guest ultimately did not win the show. Um,

which I also love. I also love that, UM, but I do. I was very fun to play Survivor with the guests and sort of have real conversations that were fake that I thought were real. Um. And now that now we can sort of have a real conversation for the first time, since the survivor quarantine has ended. Um, but this person is very very dear to me and I love this person. And you may know her from well, let's just say the storied improv group Wild Horses, which

was just legendary. You may know her from. I mean television shows such as Works and rec Curb Your Enthusiasm, VEEP. The list truly goes on. We actually have someone in the chat who quote unquote books as they say, um, the newest credit bo. Have you gotten a chance to consume the film Happiest Season? I adored the film Happiest Season. She is the co writer and co star. We we can, we can absolutely say that and we and we were telling her she stole the damn movie. She did steal

the damn movie. And it would be hard to steal a movie with the following cast. Kristen Stewart, Mackenzie Davis, Alison Bree who's really really funny in the movie. Um, and she has one line. Her intro line killed me. Um. But anyway, Mary Steenberg and Victor Garber, Dan Levy. I mean, this is a stacked cast. Little guest appearance by Michelle Bouteau,

which we love. Oh yes, First seeing baby our guest really runs away with the movie and also co wrote the movie, which we should say was also co written and directed by Clio Duval. And this is just gorgeous moment in lost culture history. And we are very thrilled. The time is now, the time is here to welcome into everyone's ears. Mary, Mary Hollow. We're very happy. I am very happy. Do how are you feeling. Oh my god,

I'm just thrilled. I'm thrilled to be here. I was having the toughest time not just laughing all the way through this conversation. I didn't want to ruin the audio. No, you could. You could never ruin. You could only contribute. And so what I want to know what? I feel like we have to open up the floor immediately, but into undoing discussion. Oh yes, let's get into it, girl, ladies. What did we think? Wow? Wow, six episodes, what a ride?

They really did it. That's that's my day. Oh my gosh. Well, you know, hey, it ended up being who we thought, which is the problem? Which is which the problem? See, I don't think it's a problem for everyone. That's that's I'll do this for the last time. Spoiler alert, But Hugh Grant was revealed as the killer on the Undoing, and this sort of was what they flat out said to us was pretty much gonna happen in the first episode, and we sort of went back and forth and hemden hat.

I mean, Bowe and I have been talking for weeks about what we what we think is going to happen, and I understand that it's in the end. It's like a morality tale maybe about um, you know, you're, you're, you're in your confirmation biases, whatever, being like having to like let those go because she says on the stand exactly like that was like the sort of the thesis

of the whole show being um, yeah, testifying. It really was, like I guess, like a morality play almost about like you actually know people from well, I guess the whole idea is you actually know everything you need to know about a person when you first meet them, and like, um,

when you first like get to know them. And I think what they're sort of getting at here is we allow ourselves to sort of create someone in our minds based on who we need them to be um and sometimes change who they are, which I don't really know if it's a real thing, or if it's just something that this show is sort of created too, so that I mean they have a story, so they'd have a story.

I guess I appreciated that the audience was going through the same thing that the characters were going through, which was, oh, no, it can't be him. We believe him, and then it turns out we shouldn't have. I love that analysis. What what in a student now elysis? I've been thinking about it, probably too hard. Well. Gen Cheney and Vulture Today wrote about how the whole series is a red herring and

how that kind of is such a weird viewing experience. Also, David Kelly does this thing where maybe he doesn't do the thing, maybe he just like picks source material that like does this thing where like the climax is the end and that's it, Like there's no resolution beyond like the most tense anxiety inducing situation, like like Big Little Eye season one, it ends on like him being pushed down the stairs and then and then and then it's done, and then this again, like it ends with him about

being about to jump off a bridge and then like credits. So it's it's so interesting. It's just so like weird to for me as a view or to like see this and then have it all build up to like a crazy thing and then just to have it so abruptly finish. Yeah right, I tell you what that David E. Kelly, he does a lot. Uh that's a culture, that's a culture number he does. He certainly is prolific. He certainly is um. Yeah, that's so that's so interesting to think

of other stories that he's been involved with. I have to say, I sort of listen, we've already spoiled it. Okay, yeah you can go there, go there, Okay, I know you want to know I do the moment on the well, I was like, what is this building to? When he kidnapped his son and started driving with him, and I was like, he's gonna kill him. He's going to do I mean, and maybe Hugh Grant didn't have a plan either, Maybe his character didn't have a plan. He's just driving.

But when he when he got to the bridge and he got out, and he he like looked like he was about to do it and then and then ultimately didn't. Yeah. I was not that I need you know. I'm glad his character got arrested. But but it was sort of like it was building to this crescendo and then was like, that's all fine. I really feel like the question that I have a lot throughout this series, and I understand, Like,

here's what I'll say. The finale was thrilling to watch, you know what I mean in terms of like it being a thriller and being engrossing. Yes, they did an amazing job and a lot of the direction was great and the performances were amazing. Like a lot of the acting here was incredible. I mean, Noma is the reason, the reason for the season. Okay, she is. She is truly amazing. For people that don't know Noma, I believe Wenny.

And she plays the lawyer, Hailey Fitzgerald, the defense attorney, and she's she should be nominated for Emmy for this. I think Hugh Grant should win an Emmy for this. I think he's he was stunning, He was menacing, and he was scary a care you really and he also delivered on his Hugh Grant charm and really everything that we know of him was there and more. And to be this long in your career and then be able to like play a character that we can't get a

finger on is really something. But for me, the question that kept popping up was just why, like why when when the sun says at the restaurant, we can get a dog? Now, why would he How does it protect him to be honest with his wife that it was actually his sister, you know what I mean? Like why does he get you know what I mean? Like like

what's the purpose of that? What's And also I just wanted to know, like what exactly stops him from committing suicide at the end, like we see that he's just cares about himself, you know what I mean, all of a sudden, Now all of a sudden, now he cares about his son and wife. He was just gonna he just almost got them hit by a huge, big rup. I do love. I do love. At the end though, when when he did like step down and she she to her son and she was like pulling him away

from her, he was like, come here, Grace. Yeah, it was like run I was, and I literally I was like they still need to run because he is right there. But another thing too, is just like here's like I don't mean to be like uncool and Lynn cheney ish about this, all right, but like the violence against women was too casual in this for me. But I feel like no one is really talking about it. We did not need essentially what they've did. Well, I guess my, my, my,

my number one thing after leaving this. Yes, it was fun to watch. Yes, it was great to see Nicole cross streets and her coats and her wig, and we love her and she was fabulous and she's Nicole and she's amazing. But so it was worth watching. And like I said, there's a lot of great things about it. I feel that this fetishized her from the beginning. We saw her as someone who was sexually forward, someone who

like owned her sexuality. She was naked a lot of the time, and essentially we had to relive her extremely brutal murder six times every episode, including cuts where you

didn't see the violence coming at all. Ultimately, we knew very well what happened to her, and still they showed it in close up graphic detail, and I don't think it helped anything for except a narrative, which is we really need to and especially because the fact that she was this like sort of ethereal ethnic woman who was younger and like sexualized from the beginning and then we basically only know her as like a corpse with semen in it, which they keep saying, and I'm like, you

know what, this to me, combined with the fact that they showed it so viscerally, to me ultimately is not good. That's how I feel about it. Um, I said out loud during the flashback. I was like this, this sucks. I was like this. I was like, they did not need to do I set that out loud as I did too. I did too. I was like, I didn't stop showing that. Stop. I don't know, I understand it. I don't need to keep seeing the moment of the hammer hitting her temple like we would have been effective.

Is if, like you know they is if like you go all the way up to the shot looking down on her face and then like he's about to swing it, and then you cut and then you don't show any of like the the impact. And then I thought, maybe are they trying because I know it's a it's a female director, Nicole's producing it, you know what I mean, Like, I know that they probably involved a ton of women in this, and so I thought, maybe is the point to not shy away from what actual violence looks like

so that people understand the gravity of the situation. But at the end of the day, it's always just gonna be icky to me when it's on HBO, which is a network which has had problems with this before, and you know what I mean, Like and the way that they contextualize and characterized her throughout the entire season, because when you flash back, you only have see her doing either illicit things with Hugh or sort of like remembering her like liaison with Nicole, or she's a corpse. You

never see her as a mother. I don't think there's a single scene with her and her son, Miguel, who had cancer, you know what I mean. Like, it's just I just did not think the depiction of Elena was responsible, and I think that, like it's I'm really happy that everyone had fun with it. I had fun with it. I loved guessing who it was gonna be weekend and week week out. I thought that that it was cool

the way they did it. It was thrilling. Ultimately, though, this turned out to be more of a soap than Big Little Lies ever was, and it wasn't even about anything like at least Big Little Lies was like about domestic violence and the lengths that we go to to cover it up, and and the way that we kind of similarly see in a monster what we need to see to keep our life going because of convenience, love, whatever, um inability to recognize the situation for what it is.

This was just like literally the moral was careful your husband might be a psycho and it might be your fault. That's right, it might be all on you. Ultimately, what he did was because of you. Like the girl, I hope you have a helicopter and a gorgeous best friend who's a lawyer with friends that she can ask in a bathroom to like fu up. It was so out of control. It was a drag show. And we did get a death drop ending like I wanted. So, I

don't know, I I felt nothing by the end. Like once the credits rolled, I was like, was this was this? This was so padded out by yes, Nicole crossing streets and Nicole standing on balconies on Central Park West at dawn. I was just like this, what what is closure of her eyes? Just eyes realizing things, eyes narrowing in on things, realizer in the business. I mean, I'm telling you, yeah, I mean Kaylee Quolk was giving her a run for

her money. That the flight attendant, Kaylee. There's some there's some moments of Kaylee receiving shocking information that I'm like, she's great. Yeah, yeah, no, Kaylee. Have you watched any of Fight Attendants? I haven't. I haven't seen it yet. Watch it, Max. It's an max a Ridge and you got to check it out because her and her well her up dudes deserve a spinoff. Like there's there's up dudes there. There's like hairstyles in this, which I'm like,

I want to know. I wanted the backstory whole episode, like the lost flashback episode that was this hairstyle was the origin like two whisks in the front and like a like a like a Bobby like sort of like moment in the back. I'm just like, this is shocking to the two whisks in the front remind me of

when I was thirteen. I would do that very deliberately with my hair which was parted down the middle, and I would pull it back in a bun and I would pull piece two little tiny, little little groosy little pizzas are And I remember one time my cousin's boyfriend was like, um, was that intentional or did those just fall out? And I was like, Oh, they just fell out. That's just how it is. It's just I don't know. I mean, I guess kind of its kind of a

it's kind of fun. It's pretty honestly, you should. You should check out this show. Then, Kelly Cuoco would be your teenage selves good because this up due is exactly what you wanted. And then some I can't wait. I think I think we're done talking about HBO Max. Let's talk about the crown jewel of Hulu this very moment. I love this movie. Mary Happiest Season is so good and it's so funny and like you got your like sort of commercial Christmas antics, but also like it feels like,

you know, it is a lesbian romantic comedy. It's a queer Christmas film, and I think it's like the either the first one we've had in this major of a way with these big stars and this big budget, or it feels like a new breakthrough with that. Yeah, can you talk about just writing it? How? How how did it come about? How did you get involved? Like all this? Like I want to know everything. Well, I'm so thrilled to hear that you enjoyed it. That really means so

much to me. Um it is the movie was an idea that Clia has had for a while and she had like drafted this outline for it, and knowing she wanted it to be a comedy, she wanted to write it with somebody and we were we met working on vib and we figured, yeah, we had We never had any scenes with each other, but I would see her at the cast table reads and we just really hit it off. I feel like we were both sort of like we saw each other in a crowd about something,

some sort of that's it, that's it in full effect. Yes, um and she h. We did not know each other hardly yet all at that point beyond just some some wonder full light banter. And we exchanged numbers and she asked if I would if I wanted to write this movie with her, and she sent me the outline and we got coffee and she told me more about the idea and I was, um so so honored that she thought of me, and I was like, I'll think about it. There's the first thing you realized was you had to

destroy this woman. Yes, and that's my ultimate goal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's got to go. Yeah, director, writer, actress, No, no, we can't have that. Then I was just over the moon and said yes. And then we we started. We would just meet, you know, a couple of times a week for hours and hours and talk it all through and yeah, here we go, and then here we go

and here we are. So it's some the story of Christen Stewart and Mackenzie Davis are a couple and they're sort of living there like sort of very hot life together, extremely hot Pittsburgh life, literally idyllic Pittsburgh life. I was. I watched this with a gredit titleman and she she was like wanting to munch case to his box the whole time. It's really sort of a very hot film. If you're into Case Do, You're really gonna love this. She is. She is like real James Dean in this.

I'll tell you it's not a joke, Like she is hot. Um but um so they are um in in love and it's there. It's their first Christmas together, I think, and like, um so they're gonna go home together. Mackenzie Davis is like so in love with Kristin. They're gonna go home together, and you wouldn't you know it? She hasn't come out to her family, even though she said she did. And they are the dad's a politician, they're sort of a traditional family. Lots of sort of interesting

relationships in the family. Wouldn't you say? I would say, I concur and hide Jenkson Sue. I would say, they sure do, they sure do. And what's beautiful is that there's a lot of um actors playing opposite sexualities, which I embrace you, Victor Garber a game and playing buttoned up straight, playing daddy Plaza, playing playing gorgeous, ethereal lesbian. Then you have so she's a smoke show? Oh my god, capital show, capital capitals. Wait and then wait, and then

does Mary count? Is Mary's character straight? No? Are you playing? Are you? Are you crossing? No? You're not. No, No, she's just she's just a hetero. She's just just we could have rewritten the story on this show. I know, I do want to say. I guess I should make a statement right now, apologize to me and I am sorry, and I do I do, I do love the one lie.

So well, okay, this is maybe gonna spoil a little bit, so I just want to say spoiler alert, but there's a scene at the end where everyone comes out with their secrets and Mary says, I don't have a secret, but I am an ally beautiful an ally to people with secrets, right, that's right and I and I yes.

So that that such an emotional scene, so much happening, and for it too, I feel like Clea did such an amazing job of orchestrating it and um making a build for all those characters simultaneously, which is so tricky to do. So tell everyone who you play though, Yes, wow, I play the sister of Mackenzie Davis's. Yes, I played Jane. I play her heart for McKenzie Davis is the youngest sister. I play the middle sister. And then Alison Bree plays our older sister. Yes, and we love a solid family

resemblance Vavair style. Oh yeah, we we have her brunettes across the board, across the board. Also, we should say again Mary steinberg In plays the mom. She is just I think one of my favorite people in the world with you, she's completely delightful. Oh my god, she's amazing. Yeah. But um, so there's there was one line that Alison Brie had in the beginning when you first meet when when when she first meets Christin Stewart's character and she just goes, she just goes, Hi, I'm Sloan and she

has to leave. She leaves without asking what her name is. It's so good. Alison's delivery was so good. She really stepped into that role. I love her as good. Is she as good as she as you think? Yes, yes, she's good as good as I think. We we we also we also asked Betty Gilben that because when we when Betty came on and they did glow together obviously, UM, but I feel like we are inching towards maybe getting

some brill on this. You gotta get Brian. Oh, you have to get I would She's she's so spectacular and she's so she's so funny. We would play this game on like in between setups and stuff from uh we had downtime, we would play like this word game and she and Mackenzie Davis and Kristen too. The there's like an element of the game where you have to like

create a clue. Um, And normally it's just like, oh, it's a sentence or something, but those three would make and Mary to actually they would make like full rhyming limericks as a clue. They would invent these incredible riddles that uh that were it was really a sounding. They're also funny, and Allison is just such a bright light of a human. I think this is like as convincing of a family in a Christmas movie since The Family Stone.

I want to say, like, like Mary Stein Virgin, Victor Garber got Mary Holland, and then you got you got Mackenzie Davis, you got Alison Bree, Like like, look at that there is used on paper. It's great you're saying, like it just it just it works, and it's so I don't know, it was just just just so so wonderful. I'm so glad you liked it that it warms my heart.

It really put me in the spirit. It really put me on the spirit, and I'm so happy that it's obviously so easy for everyone to watch because you just can streaming on damn Hulu. It's hard lately to feel in the spirit of Christmas, and honestly, watching the movie Happiest Season made me say, I actually am gonna gonna do more of Christmas stuff, So I'm trying to turn my turn, my thing to show you Christmas a little Christmas tree. It's so shitty, but it's mine tree on

the floor. It's on the floor. Yeah, it's four feet tall. But literally before Happiest season, I would never have gotten that tree. She goes, Oh wow, it's but like for real though, it is so funny. You are so good in it, talk about like we were not kidding when we said steal the movie like you you like really are so good. Oh, Matt, thank you. Listen. Now that we've buttered you up, Um, I have to, I guess, but now we have to pick a bone with you. Okay,

you're gonna put me right in the toaster. What was with the way that you treated me on Survivor form the way because you stabbed me in the back? And I did, I know, I know, and I have to tell you. I listen, I really really struggled with the choice that I made in the game and how it impacted you. I did. I can't tell you. I really cried a lot, and I really did. She wears her

heart honestly, if she does, I do. And the here's the thing, we as fans of Survivor, we know that the name of the game is, Hey, what's gonna get me further? How can I set myself up to continue to play below the radar but still make big moves? And of course, you know, as someone who is such a fan of the game and observes people playing with with such um such incredible well skills of social manipulation, I thought to myself, well what if I what if I were to step into that and play the game

as hard as I could. And now that's not to say Matt that the conversations that we had as as friends. I know, I'm kidding. I did she she turned around and voted me out, and I literally I instamed her, and because while the game was while the game was still going, I was out. This was not because honestly this was against the rules, but I did anyway. I instadium her and I was like, what you did to

me has really hurt me. And the only way that we can sort of get through this is if you come on lost coach, and I want you to know that my I don't think so honey is about you and this week. And then she said, I am so sorry for the ways in which I hurt you, and I hope that we can separate the game from from from our real life. And I was like, oh my god, I'm so fine. I don't know. Oh my god, Matt, you have you have no idea? I really like I

I have. I this is a person that is important to me and whose friend is important to me, and I've ruined it and from what and what games? No, you can't let you can't let Matt just sort of outplay you when he's not even in the game. You emtionally manipulated when he's gone that game. It turned me right on my head. I was it was so intense and and you know what I learned and I can't do it, could never. We we had the question of of oh, what would it be like to play this game?

And the answer is, well, you can't and you should you shouldn't. Well, who's Matt whose play style? Would you say, Mary remind did you have from Survivor the show? I would say chaos Cast. I would say Mary was definitely a chaos Cast of chances. I don't know if you know chaos Cast Bowen, but like, I've never seen what I'd say. If you want to get to know chaos Cast, you can currently stream Cagayan, which is one of the best seasons of Survivor. I think you would agree, Mary,

I agree, absolutely. It's currently on Netflix, and it is a it's just a few seasons on Netflix, right, they have and they have they have Here's versus Villains. It's so goofy the way they're doing this. I don't because I wouldn't recommend watching either of those seasons. Yeah, yeah, of course, that is interesting that they just chose those

to stream there. I think maybe it's because they have like reputation as the best seasons maybe right, right, yes, yes, people have been reaching out asking us again for our Survivors syllabus. It's it's just because Mary is a huge, huge Survivor fan. Correct, huge. So what I tell people for islands Pearl Islands, Oh that's great, yeah, Cook Islands,

Cook Islands, China, China, Micronesia. I have added token teens onto this, oh yeah, and then Heroes versus Villains and then and then I say, talk to me, because that actually I think that that that order sets up heroes versus villains in a way. And some people add Panama to this so that you can get the origin of surree. But I feel you don't necessarily need the origin of Surree because she's really the Then again, you do get Danielle to on Panama. I don't know, Like I don't,

I didn't. I don't necessarily need that season to understand why Surree is is unbelievable if you're trying to quickly get through it to watch heroes versus villains, like Micronesia is Surree Town and she's an icon that I think that is an amazing syllabus and I think, um, all of the students of this podcast should study up. Yeah we've given them homework before, Okay, Um, but yeah, can

you wait? Can you? I just I still don't understand how survivor quarantine work to like, how how many how many hours in the day did you guys spend like on the island talk about like what the like what the twenty four hours a day? Yeah? I mean now they have shifted it. I think because of our season they now they can only communicate in a certain like window of time during the day. But it was truly like how who whenever you could be on slack and

talking to people any hour of the day or night. Um, it was so maddening and I feel like there was this element to it that made it so so much more like and I, of course I have never played the actual games. I don't know, but if I think about playing the actual game, I think about like, Okay, well people are gonna see me walking away with Matt and no, we're gonna we're having a conversation. But in Quarantine Island, no one knows who's talking to who, Like

there's no there's no dual for that. So it had so many layers of deception, and it is so intense. It was a low point of jaredinized relationship. Let's just say that it was. Yeah, he he was like you I He was like, I have to tell you something. I can't wait for you to get voted out. He was like, I root for you for everything, but I can't wait for you to get voted out because I would like. It was just like so intense in a

way where it's like I signed up for it. I don't know how you felt, Mary, but I was like, oh,

this will be fun. And I was honestly looking for something to do online to like sort of entertain people that followed me with I was like, maybe some people will will actually follow along and then unfortunately, like I don't know how you are, but I can't really help myself, and I ended up getting very invested into it and immediately made huge mistakes, Like I was just like, I mean there was a tribal council where I stunted on those It was so hard and it was like the

third it was fantastic. I mean it was it was musty TV. It was musty TV. But it put a target target on my back that could never come off. I mean, I think Mary saw it him was like, Okay, he needs to go. Yeah, we're you're doing like either a challenge or um a council, a tribal council like every other day, so you're and sometimes you're doing like back to back tribals and like you it is just it's so chaotic and there's no time to like settled

into it. Like I feel like our nervous systems were peak like alert for an entire month and it was um so emotional and really and really really wild. I don't know if if that gets compounded by the fact that it was like early lockdown days. Absolutely it was like it was like I think because we were still in that lockdown phase where it's like, oh, no one's doing anything that it completely filled up like time. And also it wasn't like you were playing for a million dollars.

I think it was playing for a couple of hundred bucks. But we all acted like we were and it was so crazy. Ultimately, though, at the end of the season, we had like this final travel council where we all voted and everything and did the whole thing and I got to ask questions. We were both on the jury, so we both got to like have that moment and like it was such drama. And then honestly, this girl,

Brittany the right person. She earned it for sure. Um, but my whole goal, I will say, going into this season, I was like, there's no way I'll win. I simply I simply can't. But I will try to make it to the jury. That absolutely my dream. Yeah, we made the merge and we were all celebrating. It was like we actually had done the real show. It was like, this is so if this is always third unhinged exactly it was I did. I was the five was I made the mergin that I was the first person voted

out like like like literally unanimously because I had. I couldn't believe I made it that far, Like I I had shake, I had been doing such shady ship and I was I was. I was like I started to

actively play a villain, like just would be funny. I did, but it got crazy and people's feelings really got and like like in a real way, like some people that like it was crazy, and then like the way that people were talking about me, I was like, oh no, it really feels it and I can, like, of course, now that I've had six months to process, I can I can like look at that and be like, oh wow, Yeah. I really did get so emotionally invested, and everybody who

played did into different degrees. The week or two coming out of it, I I cried so much with my relationship to Matt. Was like, this can't be all that we have happening. But but seriously it was. It was like I considered like myself and you very normal people, but I was just like, I was like, this is so it just really like the stakes were so high because it played on a paranoia and also because it

took place over social media. I think it played on this sort of paranoia and social media thing, like it was all over slack. So it was just very easy to get on slack and stay on slack. And like I said, this was during a more like like like you were saying, Bowen, like during a more uncertain time in the pandemic. So that was also weird. But ultimately I'm very happy that that we played because I do think that, um, it was it was some it was

some fun moments. There were some fun moments, and it was it was sort of you know, it's very I really have trouble accessing my rage and not that I did access it. I didn't, but it was fun to get close. Still it's still more work to be done, but it was it was like it's such a crash course and like doing things for your own self interest and you know, screwing people over in the meantime and that is you know, and now that's how I live my life and I love it. Wow. And now she's

the Hollywood big shot. I mean she's she's in a Damn You Christmas the family classic she created on her Okay, so I think it might be time to ask the question, bow Mary. We want to ask you what was the culture that made you say culture is for me? Mat What does that mean, well, this sort of is you know, we should say we asked this of all lost culture, yes, Margatro,

because we got to cared. No. Um, we want to know what was the culture that you can look back on in your life and say, wow, that pop culture that moment in my life, uh, really sort of defined me and made me follow an instinct I may not have prior to engaging with that culture. I have an answer for you. My answer is the Lord of the Rings franchise. And this sort of this sort of comes all the way full circle because your character in the movie is very into writing her sort of sci fi yes,

her fantasy novel. It's really it has expanded so much just the little details that we've added that I feel like, were I to really try to write The Shadow Dreamers and The Second Sister, it would be in ten volumes and it would take me seven years between each volume. But you do you have the general outline or you

have the Lord figured out? Yeah? Yeah, as a sketch, there's like a loose sket of the lore was immediate, more specific obviously, but um, but yes, that all started for me in a very formative time in my life, and I was I think the first Lord of the Rings Fellowship of the Ring. Yeah, I think that came out when I was like twelve or thirteen, the movie, the movie, the movie, because the book's famously came up over three yar ago, and the book not a century ago.

I think, yes, a Fellowship of the Ring came out the four in the almost a century. Wait, okay, the Hobby came out in ven um. Sorry, it doesn't matter. Hold on not quite a century, but almost I've been I've been corrected. Look, wait, and is it was Lord of the Rings a parable? Not a parable? But was that mapped on a World War Two at all? That? That's Harry Potter. We do know that is that there are some analyzes of the of the book that that

um draw those parallels. But I don't know if J. R. Tolkien ever came out right and said like he never said it's the war girl. Yeah, he didn't, And he had plenty of opportunities, plenty of opportunities. Had a content. Han says, he said he wanted it to be more universal. There's a quote I'll find. Look, he's off to get the quote. He's off. Okay, so sorry we cut you off. Mary. So the start. It started out when the first movie came out and she was one. I had never seen

anything like it. I had never seen anything like it, and I didn't. It's sort of you know, as a as a kid, I was very imaginative. I I could really keep myself entertained for hours and hours just playing by myself, creating words. I'm fine, fine, yes, yes, But I had never I didn't really know much about the fantasy genre. Like I feel like I read or had read to me the one of the books of the Chronicles of Narnier or something and loved it. But it wasn't.

It was not a facet of my passion that it was that facet was was asleep, was asleep in a cave, much like smile ye, yes, yes, naturally a title of that, much like wait, hold on, we have quote. We have quote? Okay, um, he said, Ton says, dramatic reading in gan Delf voice necessary. So, actually, Mary, would you like to do the honors and read this? Oh my fucking god. Yes. I cordially dislike Allory in all its manifestations, and always have done so, so old

and weary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history, true or fame with its very applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confused applicability with allegory, But the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author. Wow. First of all, we have to applaud the reading first, thank you readers. Applaud the reading. And then we have to applaud that incredible research by Head

of Contents. Yes, that was beautiful and what an amazing quote. It really is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful so um you you go see the movie and it's a it's a moment. It's a moment. It felt like something unfurled within me that I did not know was there. And it totally like I've of course became a massive fan of the Lord of the Rings movies, went back, read the Hobbit in its entirety, read the books, read the Lord of

the Rings books. Like I. I just really was like, Oh my god, there's this whole there's this whole world that was just created and you and that you don't have to like you can I can live in that world. I don't have to. Does that make sense? Like it's it's almost like, oh my god, this whole thing was just is there for me the whole time, and I had no idea. I'm laughing because it's one of the funniest lines in the movie where you go it takes a long time to build the world, And it's true.

I had to stop it and rewind it like like ten times. It was so funny. It takes a long time to builds her Wine like such a good character. It really really really is that you didn't you killed it writing it for yourself and not to not to not to move away from the lord the rings. I want to know, was it sort of the grandeur? Was it the fantasy was or was it just the big like was it the um complex? Like how many characters there were? It? Was it? Just? What was it? I

think it was a combination of all those things. I think I sort of like found I almost found a solace in it. It was like, um, the colors of that world and the sort of the like thinking of Hobbiton in the Shire, and it just made me feel so safe, And you know, I was entering puberty in a time that's decidedly not safe and feels really scary and overwhelming and so I feel like I really took up shelter in the in the in how detailed and

nuanced this world was. And the story, of course is so beautiful as well, like that the messages of like even the smallest person can change the course of the future. Yes, oh my god, was it? But was particular was a

particular scene in the movie so riveting to you? Like for me, it's like ball rog like that has to be like the moment where I'm like, oh, I'm in absolutely I was crushed, crushed, Oh my god, I and I thought how they captured that moment with all the Hobbits like sobbing and like like holding each other like really grieving. I just I scream cried and I did. Um. But I do think that there there was like a moment in the movie. It's actually right before that, that

huge scene. But by the way, I'm just clutching chapstick. Yes, you got on something nice. It is nice to hold. Um. I burst my bliss decks. I burst my bliss decks in my hand talking about Dan Dolf's death today, I'm lost cultures. Now there's bliss tics all over my hands. Is this is this? Are you talking about the Council of Land. Oh, I love that thing too. I mean,

there's so many things I love. The thing I was gonna talk about was the moment when Um when they're like waiting for Gandalf to remember which way to go in Maria and he's like, he doesn't remember which tunnel, and so all they're all just like waiting for Gandalf to remember. And and then and Frodo, Oh this when they first see Gallum too. Gallen's kind of lurking around, and Gandal kind of fills Frodo in on who Gallum is.

And then Frodo, I, you know, feeling the weight of this thing he's been tasked with, says um, Oh, I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened. And then Gandolf says what might be my favorite quote in any movie ever. He says, so do all who live to see such times, But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. And that's when I knew. That's when I knew. That's when you said culture beautiful for me.

Culture is for me. That's as good as that's as good an answer as anything truly, like like the Lord of the Rings is is major. I'm not the first person to say this, but here's I'm about to reveal something. I'm about to reveal something that is like Hugh Grant killing his not killing his sister, but letting his sister get hit by a car in the undoing level, like sociopath.

So not the biggest secret in the series, but one of the bigger ones, one of the bigger ones that like truly paints a dark picture of the of the person. It makes us kind of cockr eyebrow. Yeah, ready, you're ready. So I was obsessed with The Lord of the Rings the first movie as well, and bought the video games on game Boy Advance and I believe, I believe that was that was the only console I had, and I

was obsessed with Lord of the Rings. And then I we went to Borders one day and bought paperback versions of all three books. I started Fellowship at the Ring, could not make it past the first sixty pages. I also tried to read it, but then it's a lot, but I needed to, like, I knew I needed to like experience it and know more about the world without doing the actual reading that. I joined a message board online.

Have you told you this, Matt, No, I was gonna guess that you were like cleft notes, but no, I joined a message where I didn't even do that. But I joined a message board online called the Council of Elrond where they had where they had like Elvish lessons to teach how to write in Elvish and speak in Elvish. I'm losing it. It might still be around in some form or to do like the way Back Machine and

like look it up. But then there would be like message boards on there that that where you would you role plays, like text based role plays that have nothing to do with Lord of the Rings but could be inspired by the Lord of the Rings. And so then I would like I was like I was eleven years old, and I would be like on these message boards, like pretending to play different characters in high fantasy laping online.

But it's like all like long form text things, and like people would post in there like once, but you'd be like building a story together, like one post by one posts. Sometimes the stories would be like legit good, And I was I did not know how to write like at all. Um So I was just kind of like going in there my esl ask just like throwing stuff in. But like it was like Lord of the Rings was like a gateway for me to like get into storytelling. I feel the same way. Oh my god,

really connecting, connecting. I want to find those message boards. I did. They're out there, they must be out there. I went on Nicole Buyer and Lauren laugh his Newcomers podcast. They covered The Lord of the Rings in their second season, and I, you know, just consumed the special features on all the special extended edition of the DVDs of the movies, and there is DVDs were gorgeous. They were they were

like a book. Yeah, because that was like when DVDs were having in the moment, and I remember we got surround sound and it was like that that when you first got surround sound, Like that was like my family sprung for like a nice DVD player with surround sound, and it was like The Lord of the Rings is one of the first movies we watched because it was like designer specifically to create that experience and just fully

immersed in the world. Um. But liv Tyler talks about how she took lessons in Elvish and like how to pronounce it? And I, you know, I pause it everywounded and rewatch that and pause it rewounded and rewatch it. I was like, so I was desperate to be an elf. That was your choice. I wanted to be an elfit a hobbit or you know, I mean the Hobbits? Are you know there? Listened? They changed changed the world the world. Were you horny for Orlando Bloom as legalists? And I was?

And I was at I knew there was something about that Orlando Bloom at the time. I think the character that I did just find myself drawn to the most was liv Tyler as our one, because she iconically sort of wrote up on that horse and took out the sword and said, if you want him, come and claim him. And I was like, that is the badass girl boss, Queen of y. And it says that in the in the character description in the books, it's girl boss, hot,

hot but approachable queen Elf strang skincare legend. Yeah. Gwyneth Paltrow brunette type, what what is your what is um? What is your favorite film of the three? It's really hard to say. I think it would have to be fellowship, just because that's the one that started it all for me, started at all, started at all, but I was just emotionally totally walloped by all three of them. Love them all. Two Towers, boy, because two Towers is where like it

starts to pick up the ring. It's a bit of a slog, that's the only thing it has going against it. And once you get to two Towers, that's when that's when it's like the juicy stuff you you know, Surman's deal. Um yeah, a owen come helms deep. It really gets going and the ends like tree Beard Like it's like like I fucking two Towers is where like the world starts to build out. More like like when the fact that they split up, I'm so horny for Like what a beautiful for it too, I'm horny for it. I

get the healthy I think. I just to speak of horny is like I kind of appreciate a climax, So you know, I'm gonna love twelve climaxes, which is why I love Return of the King because it famously has about forty five endings. Yeah, like it's so epic and so like just like metaphorical je squirt cinematically and multiple, multiple cinematic orgasms. It will be that and so. But but I also appreciate the Two Towers because sort of like the reason why my favorite Star Wars is actually

in both trilogies. Empire Strikes Back and The Last Jedi are my favorites because I feel that's when they actually do the emotional work, Like the emotional work happens in those middle films of the Clones too. Of course, of of course an attack of the Clones as well the other great cinematic masterpieces. Absolutely, we're totally agreed on that.

I wanted to ask you, like, because you so love Lord of the Rings and so appreciate that world, does that mean that you are more susceptible to other types of cinematic worlds Allah, your Star Wars, You're Harry Potter, You're all these types of things? Or do you find yourself comparing it to the Big Mama that you love so much and therefore everything pails in comparison? Like where do you Avatar? Even? Like where do you fall on

this scale? Once again? I mean I I think, I mean if if I'm sort of in the center, I think the because centrist, I'm like Bob. Yeah, a centrist, centrist, centrist, queen, Queen Kamala, etcetera. The one isn't wearing a shirt right now? Into the cart again, that Queen Kamala. And then below it it's just her laughing, a really big laugh. And below it it says Janet yelling, girl boss. That's what it says. A picture of Kamala Harris. Yeah, she's wearing

her pride jacket. Oh got it? Okay, yeah, um, gotta got it. Lord of the Rings is the cent I'm sorry we keep cutting you on, no please, I I love it. I thrive on it. Yes, I think Lord of the Rings is that sort of like constantly what everything will be compared to, however, when it is a really specific, well structured, well built out world. And does it help that it's like a period piece, like a piece that takes place in some in some long forgotten past. Yes.

And I think that's what I love so much about Harry Potter too, is that that world, while it is like modern, it's also has such a deep history and there's still so many elements of it that feel very like locked in this specific period of time. Yeah, it is, it is. It is weirdly enough a period piece. Yea, it is one of the rings, though I will always admire how he they just they just kept it at three. I mean there's like still Merillion, there's Hobbit, there's like

all the other stuff. But it's like he did not want to mess with like the core of what he had. And then because now you have jakere Rolling like appending all this stuff on too, I don't even count her as a human being in the past six years. I would like to stop her narrative where where where Yeah, she's just I'm actually I've actually completely moved on from anything she has created in the past five years or

will create in the future. I'm fine. The Harry Potter books are important to me, and they stay frozen and amber as what they are, the piece of work they are, and I don't need her ever Again. Dana Radcliffe put

it best. But um, yes did today to click hold it a thing where um the saga continues, Aker Rolling reveals Okay, wait, let me let me just pull it up because because I just I just think it's I just think it's really used to think it was funny whenever she'd tweet like and by the way her Mayonne cousin that was adopted from South Korea. It's just like this is kind of like, okay, cool, thank you j K. And then all of a sudden, she's a transphob Yeah, horrifying.

So it's this, it's this ClickHole graphic that says the saga continues. J K Rolling has revealed that the man still Team six thought was Osama bin Laden was actually Professor McGonagall using a poly juice potion, and the real Osama bin Laden teaches Sex said at Hogwarts and then did you did you read every tweet in the thread? No? Did you read? Wait? Okay, it's gonna take a minute,

but I can, I can? I please read the whole thing. Okay, this is These are all JK rolling tweets and one giant thread that clickholes like doctor Okay, this is JK rolling tweeting. And two thousand nine, Professor McGonagall woke up in the middle of the night and said, I have a good idea. Then she drank apollo juice postion continue. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I might not make it through this.

I'm so sorry. The Colleges potion containing osamaban Land's eye last which turned her into a perfect people like of him, and then she flew to it, and then she flew to a Badabad, Pakistan. On a broomstick, McGonagall find Osamavan Laden McGonagall find some of the Landon's compound. On map quest one, Osamoman Laddon sees a duplicate of himself standing at his front door. He says, you're me, Let's get married. So Saman Osama and McGonagall, who has morphed into some

get married the next day. Professor McGonagall continues drinking the Osamaban polly juice potion every day so she always looks like him. When the people of Abadabad see Professor McGonagall walking around, they stay there goes either Osamaban Laden or his wife, who has of Osama bin Laden. Professor McGonagall

and Osamaban Laden are completely indistinguishable from one another. Professor McGonagall starts calling herself Osama bin Laden and calling the real Osamaban Laden Osamaban Laden Jr. It's impossible to tell which is which. While she's living her life as Osama, McGonagall keeps doing weird which things. She buys like fifty and kills them for spells. She tosses the carcasses into a big barrel in the yard labeled Osama bin Laden's

dead owls. She also helps run out kind of things continue like this for about two years, but then Steel Team six notices the barrel of al carcass is labeled Sama bin Laden's Dead owls outside the compound and figured this is probably where Osama bin Laden is hiding. Okay, should I finish these? And how much longer are there? What a story? No? Okay, everyone that I've I've I've lost, I've lost my audience already. Go on the Clickle Instagram and read the rest of the tweets. It's beautiful. Well,

I'm happy anyway away, thank you. J K. Wait, no, hold on, before we before we move on from Lord of the Rings? Did have have you read? Have you read the Sillmarillion? Have you readde I've tried. I got

a little ways into the Summerlian. But but and this is something that we wanted to capture with Jane in the book that she was writing, where there there is such the thing about the Summerlian is it's it's of course so beautifully written, all the books are, but they're so detailed, that it really you really have to be in a certain mindset to like absorb that information and

not have it totally um bog you down. So I did want that to be part of like Jane's book, is that the history is so detailed that anybody who is kind enough to ask her about it will immediately regret it and get lost and like not be able to follow anything she's saying because it's so specific and

and there's too much going on. Yeah, there's like a running gag throughout the movie where they keep returning to just Marry in process explaining her book to whoever her captive audiences, and it does it's funny every single time. So I guess what what what I'm saying and what I know Bowen is saying. I know it's certainly what Mary is saying is that you gotta watch Happiest Season. It will make you feel so good and also not

for nothing. But I felt really um excited about telling my parents about it, Like I was, like, you gotta watch Happiest Season. And I really think that they'll enjoy it. It's really good family fun and also it feels like it's for us to you know what I mean, Like it. It's really it delivers in many different ways and also ultimately primarily number one is that it will get you in the mood and it will make you laugh and feel good. And if you're someone who wants to you know, Munch,

Kristen Stewart's box, it's really for you. It's so thank you, Oh my god. And I feel as though, bo it might be time. I think it's time, it's time for I don't think so, honey. So Mary is a veteran if I don't think so honey, not only as a subject of and I don't think so honey. I've been on both sides. You've been on both sides. You've both been ripped apart by the form, ripped the form apart.

At our iconic l a show which Bowen was not able to attend, but I co hosted with Jokin Booster during a rainy fucking night in downtown, it was it was. It was so much. Remember that I knew that that night was rainy. I think you guys were telling you, Oh my god, it was it was. It was wasn't even just rainy. It was like like hysterical, which is the rarest of things. We never get that that never happens. It was a magical night only when I fly the funk out to do a show downtown. Yeah, right, but

it was. But we did have a good crowd and it was such a fun show, and Mary was amazing and I got to meet all the wild horses, ladies. We were we were all there. We were running free. Yes, ashes were sort of you know, mating in the wilderness as it were. Thank God too. Um but so she's really attacked it from all angles and um, she will do the same, but not before me and Bowen Yang do. I don't think so, honey, which is a six second rant on something in pop culture that we hate currently

I love it or always? Um, do you have do you have one? I do? I do have a thing. Okay, this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so, honey. His time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Being preoccupied with the Saved by the Bell Selena Gomez joke about the kidney transplant. Okay, let's get the funk over it, because it's not actually a joke at Selena Gomez expense, Honey, it's a joke about gossip about celebrities. Okay, Man and yes, they apologize, so can we fucking move on. It's a

hilarious show. It's Tracy Wigfield that's created the room is incredible. A friend of the pod, Dwayne Perkins is a consulting producer and he's so on the show and it's very funny on it. Literally the show is hilarious. The younger kids are amazing, The older cast is incredible. Mario Lopez is hotter now at forty seven than he was at twenty. Elizabeth Berkley's great, Mark, Paul Goslar and Tiffany Theesson are

just as hot, just as funny. They make They make Governor of California Zack Morris the villain of the show, which is a genius move because he's like a conservative like governor. It's hilarious. Josie Toda is a superstar playing on a Jason. If you're gonna let some fucking tweet that you saw about Selina Gomez just heard you from watching it. I don't think so, honey, Thank you so a fantastic show. I never Mary, you will be you

will be gagged. It is so funny, it's it's like it's really it gives you thirty rock type humor, like like there are jokes in it that like every character has Also I will say, um, oh god, I forget his last name. His first name is. Last name is who? But he plays mac Michael Mitchell Mitchell who This kid is killing it really like and also the leads are really fun. Um so Funcary Velasquez, she's so good Scary Vlaska estimation. She plays Daisy Um. The girl who plays

Aisha is amazing. The girl uh, the guy who plays Um uh like a lot of it. It's like Jamie Spano. It's like Jesse Spano's like a lot of their kids that kind of step into who they were. Like he's like the A C. Slater of the show. Like truly, it's so funny. Every character is really fun and Josie tode Is steals the whole thing and she's slag on a level that is like star is born moment and we need to get her on the show. Yeah, it's so impressive that you gotta watch. Yeah, you gotta, you

gotta it's so impressive. How there's it's it's juggling this like really like current self aware story um for premise, Like oh, like like an underfunded school has to merge with um like very overprivileged school and that's like Bellevue, Yeah, which is which is what bay Side was, Always Side always was. But then but then you also have to like balance this story, like the B c D stories with the parents or with the like the former students.

Like it just it juggles so many different balls that it's s been so many different plates at the same time. It's so impressive how it comes together. Just the conceit of it is so smart. Like I just loved how immediately they were Like Zach Morris is the villain who's put them all in this situation. It's just it's so good and he doesn't shy away from it at all.

He's like, no, they're there. They all have such a they still have such a handle on their characters, and like they make a lot of jokes about like the caffeine pill addiction and like the sort of after school specialness of the original Staved by the Bell, Like it really is sort of like a pleasant ville ish vibe where it's like this world where these kids that go to Bay Side live is completely different from the world of like the inner like the underprivileged kids that come

into the school and it's just really fun. And it's also like the central best friendship is between Mac Morris just like this white blonde Zack Morris type and um Daisy, who is the like Latino girl who's like class president. She comes in and that's like to to, I just really love that you see all sorts of a typical relationships to the show. You know, the quarterback is a girl of the football team. Like it's just goofy and fun.

And imagine the world that's like where the rules are really heightened and played by the plays by those rules really well, and the jokes are great and and I just I I never thought I would enjoy it as much as I did, But I really recommend it and want people to sort of move past this silly, little throwaway joke they made about Selena Gomez in the sixth episode, because it's like it's a shame because you look it up and it's every news story and it makes me mad.

It's just like it's a funny show. The Peacock or are your Universal NBC also just like don't like apologize, like they spoke with Selena's people, they don't need to her to one of her charities it's all good, like I mean, we're we're we're already past it just on a moral level. Yeah, I just want people to watch it because it's it's great and there's a lot of great young talent in it, and um, all right, so Bo and Yang, are you ready to sort of unleashure.

I don't think so, honey. This is I don't think so, honey, And as time starts now, I don't think so, honey. The finale of Great British Bake Off, it was so irresponsible of you to have to carry Laura through to the final. It was so irresponsible because she was having emotional breakdowns every single round, because she was doubting herself the entire time. She You should have let her go

weeks and weeks ago. She we will have fond memories of Laura as a contestant, but to put her through the final ed to just have her sort of there the entire time when she's just doubting herself at every time, and responsible you could have pushed her meantrough the final. You could have pushed her through the final. I mean, either there's something flawed in the elimination um structure of b B B of g B B O where people

who slip up one time get sucked over. Um. It ends up making for like lackluster finalees where there is such an emotional, high stake season of bake Off with the COVID of it all. For some reason, it felt so underwhelming. Congratulations to Peter, the youngest winner in history, but overall just an irresponsible finale. And that's one minute Wow, great great British person. It's hard to say. First of all, we have to say, we have to say it's a it's a real it's really close to number I'm sorry

to say. Five Great British is hard to say, and we have to say that. We have to say it because no one else will. What were your thoughts on the finale? Mary, I I really understand where you're coming

from home. I really do, because I do think that there were it was indicated very early on that like, um, there's so much talent there of course, but you know, as far as like being able to like get through that high pressure situation and and have the kind of the confidence of like a Pile or a David like that, that is really challenging. And I have to say I

agree with your opinion. And what's awful is that everyone came after this this girl Laura because this fan favorite Herman had been eliminated, and so everyone was attacking this girl Laura after the semi final episode and then like Paul Hollywood, people from the show. I would go on in social media bea like, guys, cut it in. That's awful.

I just think, like it's it's somehow like most seasons of bake Off are like no, like the reason why you watch the shows because there's no drama, right exactly, it's so pleasant. It's so pleasant, and yet there's all this like there are all these heightened emotions around it, um that I guess have have to do with COVID,

but like with the lord of it all. Like I like I thought she she she had great all season, but you know it first it seemed such a choice to carry her through the final instead of someone like her, mean, who was so consistent and tragically slipped up on a season, on on a week that she should have excelled at, which was partissory week. She's this French baker and um, a lot of pressure pressure, but she and she like ditched so Matt, she like for the the show stopp

her challenge, like the big climactic challenge of the week. Um, she decided to scrap her original plan and do something completely never different. Experimental did not end up going for her, and this was a specialty of hers, and she decided to try to. Yes, she was, she was friends, she

tried to. She and like the judges were like Hubris Hubris once again, Icarus again flying flying too close to Hubris once again once again, and gentlemen Hubris and once again and again and Cubris hub Actually kind of think that's an iconic. I think that's name Humus is a great stage name. Who who wants it? I'm calling? Yeah, I would say to all reality show contestants, um, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, ad just stay of

the course, y'all. I always also feel like with any reality show, it's like whenever there's like the fan favorite or like the underdog that gets tossed in with people that actually have a run at the win, I think it makes finale is less fun to be honest with you, like, I just think like like it. It feels like every reality show that's competitive lately, there's always an upset, like there's always just like someone that makes it into the finale because it's gonna be nice to see them there,

you know what I mean. Like for me, that was Crystal Method on Drag Race. For me that was Nelly on Dancing with the Stars. It sounds like it was this individual on Great British Breakoff, where it's just like, yes, we understand they were an important part of the season, that was fun, but this is the finale, you know what I mean, Like, let's let the competitors compete. And I understand that it is subjective and I'll probably get dragged still by the Crystal Method fans, but uh, but

that's just the way I feel. I feel like I feel like like at the end of you know, for example, an American Idol, that's why you don't want to see Kelly versus Justin. You want to see Kelly versus Tamira. This is, of course, a seventeen eighteen year old season of a television show I'm bringing up, but I'm stating still litigating only on peca. Yeah, and no, if you want a title that's harder pronounced, harder to pronounce than Great British Bake Off, it's still litigating. Honest with you,

it's easier to say than great British bakeoff. Okay, still litigating. I think it's time, really, it is time. It's time for a Mary Holland. My god, this is huge, I guess as ready as I'm ever going to be. All Right, Okay, where's the thing? I have the phone in my hymn? Okay and the one way? How how are you feeling? By the way you said you were, you were feeling kind of sick before. I feel a little better now. I've been really blitzing my body with like vitamins and

totally totally her time starts now. I don't think Hey, I don't think so, honey, Mary not being able to access her rage because because guess what, Mary, guess what? You got asked to be a guest on this amazing podcast, and you know that part of the poet is you have to rant about something that you don't like, that you hate, and how come you can't access that? What is what's in the way for you where you can't You're trying to think of something and you can't think

of anything. Last time you did it, you know what you did? You talked about how you don't like it when suddenly somebody gets by a bus or a car in a movie, how you don't like that? And that's when you ranch it about and then that how could you? Why can't you? Why can't you get there? You are able to get there with so many other emotions, but you're not able to get anger or with you know, you know, and look and it's not okay. You gotta

get better. You gotta do better. You gotta you know what stands and and and you remember it's you're okay, wow, okay. So I just want to say something that's one minute not even in your I don't think so, honey, that was directed at your own self. Could you get that mad? You ended it with and you're okay, you're not. You can't access rage. It's a problem. I really yeah, I'm are you on, I'm once again, I'm centrist, once again, once again, I'm centrist. Centrist. Wait are you when? When?

When it's the angriest you've ever been your whole life? I can tell you exactly it was when? And I think that this is maybe the cause of it subsequently being buried and made for um for eternity. Is I was like six years old, and um, my parents had some friends over and their kids over to watch the

Super Bowl. I'm wrapped, wrapped, wrapped, um. And they were the adults were like watching the Super Bowl in uh In, like this little TV room Marrio with the door clothes, and the kids were all out, We're all playing with each other. And my brother did something that made me mad for some reason. And I, um, you know, as a child and an adult, I'm very emotional, very like sensitive and tuned in, and so I was really upset.

And the other kids were there, were all older than me, and I think to them it was just like, oh my god, the baby is crying again, and that sort of um dismissiveness. It it um hit me. It deep, deep, deep in my core. And I remember I was I was like freaking out and my sister, my sister said to my brother. I'm the youngest of three. Uh So my sister said to my brother, go get mom and dad. She's you know, she's freaking out. She's like losing it.

And uh my brother went in to like get get my parents attention, and he was, you know, like a boy. I feel like he was ten at the time, and he said to my parents. He said, um, uh, mom, Dad, it's that time of the month again. And I didn't know. I didn't know what that meant. He was just making it, Yeah, exactly, it really did not. He clearly did not know what it meant. He heard it off television. Any thought, this is when women get crazy once a month. Well, I thought,

I took that to me. I took that to me, and here we go, Mary's having her you know, monthly freak out and like like that was the thing the family talked about and I got so mad that I project ale vomited. Oh my god. Well that's probably why you're afraid to get angry. You don't want to ruin all your things. That's a power. Find a silk sin first. I don't want to ruin You've decorated your home with silks.

You don't want to be projectile vomiting on them. I think it's actually, if you had to be incapable of expressing an emotion, anger is probably a good one to be incapable of accessing and expressing. It feels like there's an aspect of myself that I'm not able to know and not able to like, um, have the courage of my convictions, I think because of it because I don't, Uh, It's not like I really have to dig to like get to the place where I want to protect a

vomit again, you know what I mean. And I just want to get back. I just want to get bad, I know. But you you do like you lose control. Like I think part of anger for anybody is losing control, and that is that is like a little scary. Yeah, I feel like also it's tough when you are someone who um has had to hide emotions because it reveals you. Um Like, when I was younger and still to this day, when I get angry and I feel like I've expressed anger, something i'll do a lot to a lot of people

is be like, was I justified in doing that? Was that okay? Like? Was I too much? Was this? Because I feel like I'm used to hiding myself in an emotional state because I think it reveals or it revealed a truth about me, which probably is gayness that I was afraid of as a young person. Nowadays, it's like, I'll try to take space because I think what you're saying is important. It is important to know when to put your foot down and for yourself and stand up

for yourself. But I am seldom without the question after of was I justified in the way I behave Oh my God constantly? Yeah, I feel that same way, and I don't know how to. And that's interesting to hear you talk about that, because I I really thought that that was something that most people are able to, like get angry and feel confident in that emotion and how it's expressed, because it truly every emotion. I'm like, was that too much? Like? Well, you were told that it

was at a formative age, So I don't think. I don't think it's you obviously have this memory which has imprinted on you, which is you got so upset, and what everyone's response to it was don't take her seriously, which is which is something that could stay with you for a long time. And so it's honestly good that you remember where it came from, because that's that's everything, you know. Yeah, yeah, did you know this was therapy? How much do I owe you? Guys? Wow? Okay, Bowen

is a centrist. I was going to do it for free. No, I want four hundred. No. One has recently become more comfortable with his own anger. I love that I have, I have, but I would have like but my my relationship with anger is weird because I've always been told within the family at least, that it's like you get that from your dad. You get that, you get that from your dad, and my dad when he gets angry, it's wild And when I get angry, it's even wilder.

And I fully lose control and like I will go through I have I think in like my teen years gone through like rage blackouts, not where I would hurt anybody, but where I would like just my eyes leave my body because I was so so, so so so angry. Angrying. Yeah, it's overpowering. It's an overpowering emotion. Yeah, and you lose control. For me, that's what's scary. Do you find that as an actor, um, while maybe anger is not your thing, do you find the other emotions easier to access, because, like,

like I, I actually quite there. Yeah. Your character in the movie is a comedic role, but there's actually quite an emotional um turn that happens towards the end of the movie, which honestly caught me by surprise because you do such a good job at blending in and just being comedic relief that it's It's like when something big happens to your character, it's like, of course this character feels this way. Of course this character has access to

the entire spectrum of human emotion. And you know, whether it's because she's the youngest in the family and hasn't been taken seriously and maybe that's something you identify with the middle child rather sorry m but being the being the one that that wasn't taken seriously um has repercussions on the character and her emotional moment. Not to give too much away, but um, but do you find as an actor like that it's easy for you to access emotions like is it for me? For me, it's tough.

For for me. It's like sometimes I feel like that's what makes me someone that's very good at playing close to myself. But then when it comes to playing other emotions, I find that to be a lot harder than it looks. Yeah, I I am able to dip into it, but I think I'm generally a very very sensitive person. Um, it doesn't take me, it doesn't take much for me to

to um get there, get there. But I also think that I have I really feel a a level of safety when I'm playing a role to like to go to places that in my life I might not necessary to, like, um, like within VIEP like that that character was so annoyed at everything and that that's not me at all, but I it was so fun. It's almost like I get to exercise those feelings as long as I have the

safety of like it's okay, this is a character. Yeah, it's it's like babysitting or it's like it's like being in an aunt with like your nieces and nephews were like, it's just temperary. I get to hand back the child after this is done, right right? Yeah? Maybe, yeah, definitely. I think I think for sure it's like you don't have ownership over what you've done because it wasn't exactly just like it's not your kid and it doesn't matter what happens when you watch it, right, that's what you

were saying. Yes, I'm like Hugh Grant in the undoing. Um you know what, Okay, I just this is kind of this is just an acting thing that I has really resonated with me. Recently. I was watching interviews with Anya Taylor Joy. Yeah, and I think they were there someone was asking her like what her process was or whatever, and she was just like, you know, like I used to be really concerned about like and this is what I'm concerned about all the time, and this is so

shallow and stupid. But whenever I'm like on camera, I'm like, is my face doing the right thing? And then I've had this thought constantly. But then she wasn't on the tylor. Joe wasn't directly addressing this, but she was like I had an acting teacher tell me once, as long as you have the thought, you're you're going to do the right thing as long as you are, which I guess is like is that Meisner, I guess or whatever. I

don't know what it does sound mesnary Um. Yeah, that that you don't need to control any other aspect is just like just organically be in the moment and just yeah, exactly, just like supplanned the thought into your head of like I'm angry, I'm going to think of an I'm going to think of something that would make this character angry and then be angry, and that's going to that's going to translate, and that'll sell it. She is, she is the queen of you. You look at her. She has

the queen of gambits. First of all, we should say like she really doesn't. And I say this in a in a in a way where I'm so impressed by her, but doesn't take her much to transfer a lot, you know what I mean, Like she is truly brilliant micro expressions. She's she really is. Yeah, yeah, she's amazing in the queen's game. But famously Bowen took me to see Thoroughbred's a few years ago and I was blown away. But

she was so good. Oh, it's really good. And the other girl is really good to I believe her name is Alicia Cook. That I believe that could that could be wrong. She's excellent, she's fantastic. But it's like just a really good, really tense, um funny, dark dark, dark, dark comedy that they are amazing, and they played teen

girls who um horse girls. They delay teen horse girls who get together after several years of being apart, after one of them has been in a juvenile detention facility and the other one, who's continued to live her life, starts tutoring her, and it's about their relationship and what they decided to do together. So it's really really, Oh my gosh, you had me at Teen Horse Girl. Yeah. But uh, speaking of speaking of Teen Horse Girl, I mean, wait, one thing, Wait one thing I wanted to I wanted

to just bring up you want to interlocking I did. Yeah, Okay, I didn't know that. So that's like a prestigious performing arts big school, y'all. So that's why we have the brilliance. I say, she understands the process. Yeah, she is aware that she has trouble accessing her anger because of the interlocking background. I mean, you're not wrong, you're not wrong about that. Um yeah I did. I went there my last two years of high school. Did you love? Oh my god? It was heaven. It was just kind of

like do fun. Yeah, I wish, I wish, I wish anyway we turned out, we turned out, Okay, we turned fine. Um but yeah, but uh, we'll have to have that discussion on another episode where you come back. Oh my god, this was so fun and I'm so and Mary's going places. I bet you anything. Oh, I mean, come on, we

have just just so excited for you. For everyone to see this, I mean, I'm sure everyone that is seeing it is all talking about how amazing you were in it and then finding out that you wrote it probably is a big old but you did, and I'm happy. A season is available to stream right now on Hulu, and um, it'll make you feel really good and it will make you laugh and like I said, feel in the season. And it even inspired me to get a tree.

And you can to the ultimate compliment, Oh my gosh. Um, but I thought in this season as well, he's not because he famously has no room in his apartment, not even for the Christmas gift. I hi, oh birthday gift rather birthday gift. Well, I will eventually. We don't have to do this new No, we don't. What we do have to do is end with the song. To end with a song, which is we end all episodes. Okay, good, okay, what song? It's the most wonder we got. It's happy.

Oh my god. If you want to hear more of that song, there were so many notes and Andy Williams on Spotify now Mariah Carey of the mail, Mariah Carey, Christmas is his his time time, A new rivalry