"Max Out For Eliza!" (w/ Eliza Orlins)

I think that was the most moving part of this was everyone who stood in eleven hour lines to cast their vote in Georgia, everyone who registered this time for the for the first time ever, and Stacy Abrams and everyone that's working with Stacy Abrams in Georgia. Truly, I mean, they changed the whole voting landscape of this election, and it is it's just it's so inspiring. It's so inspiring.

And let's just shout out the other women who were helped register a hundred thousand new Georgia voters Helen Butler and say you fought Deborah Scott and Tomika Atkins. Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, Yes, bravo. Matt, how are you feeling in the wake of all of this, I have to say what a ride it was, because I thought, I mean, it really was giving me. It was giving me two thousand eighteen mid terms where it looked just so bad for the first few hours, and

I was watching that election in New York. This time it was like watching from l A. It's like you're seeing all the all the sort of doom and gloom earlier, and it looked it just didn't look good. And then oh, yeah, in the daylight, that must be different to like get the returns in when it was still light out. Oh for Florida to be like pretty much like red red at like six pm was really it was like, this

is happening so fast. It was so wild. But you know, with the mail and vote coming in late that that really turned exciting really fast. And of course obviously this with the caveat of it didn't exactly go as well as it should have gone in the House, in the Senate obviously, I mean, and there's a lot to still

um engage in and still fight for um. First of which is, of course, on January five, the runoff elections in Georgia, um Warknock and us Off are still in this and that would be literally, I mean administration making for us to even out that's what's going down in the Senate. And um, you know, as of today, we're recording this on the ninth, This will be released on the eleventh. But you know, still no major Republican in the currently in the Senate or House has come out

and said that Biden won the election. It's still kind of really dragging its feet. And um, Romney in the Senate that we do we count him that Yeah, I don't really count Romney. I remember one time he really tried to he really tried to get on my side when I was in high school by saying his favorite television show was lost, and I was like, maybe maybe he's the book and I like And then I was like, no, I don't think I like a single one. Um, but but um, yeah, I mean for me, my perspective on

it is like recount the votes. We'll go ahead like that.

It'll be the same like Biden as the president elect, and we will starting now start that accountability process because as we've been saying on this podcast, you know, from when he was selected as the nominee, he was not our nominee of choice and now comes the work of making sure that we continue to hold him accountable and making sure that they, you know, involved some progressive voices in this, in this cabinet and in this administration, because

the rumored picks are not it. Meg Whitman, excuse me your wounds after Quimby girl, okay, and speaking as a Quimby girl myself on behalf of Matt as well, who was also a Quimby girl, give it a rest for just a second, serve in this damn cabinet, no get away. I just feel like the failing up that is going on with that woman is I almost iconic, cathartic. It it's cathartic. So we for our for our new readers,

for our new listeners, we have now interchangeably. We've we we've used the word cathartic to mean iconic when it clearly does not mean that. But it's a it's an interchangeable substitution, just to sort of you know, it's now words mean nothing, um, but they do, just not on this podcast anyway, speaking of meaning something, speaking of progressive voices,

speaking of progressive and speaking of big elections upcoming. Oh my gosh, this is I mean of course, all eyes are on the Georgia ran off on January five, But after that, the probably the most important race coming up in June is the race from Manhattan. D a our guest today. I'm so excited. I know Bone is so excited too, so so excited. She is a public defender

in New York City. And our guest is also memorable for appearing on two seasons of Survivor, which this is actually how I learned of our guests today, because, as the readers know, Bowen and I did fall into a Survivor wormhole because of quarantine, so all of a sudden, I was very, very, very sort of infatuated with our guests because I see a lot of myself and her, which I'll tell her when when we bring her in.

But she came in fourth place on Survivor Vanuatu, which is fucking pretty great, and made such a lasting impression that she was invited back for what many would consider to be the greatest season of Survivor of all time, which was the all Star season Micronesia season sixteen, which was one by friend of the show Parverty. Shallow also competed on the Amazing Race with iconic survivor villain Curran

Kaplan just relentless survivor villain. I mean truly, her and our guests both have delivered iconic, insane tribal council speeches to the people on the up for the win. But more importantly, she is now a candidate for Manhattan d

A and this race is coming up in June. And after representing over three thousand New Yorkers who wouldn't otherwise not be able to afford a lawyer, and just being an advocate for years for low income people, brown and black people in the City of New York who just face an insane racist criminal justice system, which is, as she says in her platform, doesn't need to be reformed, but transformed. And we're just so excited this race is

coming up in June. She's running on a platform, like I said, criminal justice reform, social justice for all, especially those that are most vulnerable. And we're so so excited to welcome to the pod. Open up your ears for Eliza as welcome. What a welcome, what a welcome. It's so great to be here. I am such a big fan of the two of you, and this is just what a joy you deserve. An intro like that, thank you. Wait, okay a week very quickly, just touch on personal history

because I need to know more about you. I feel like you have lived a truly cosmopolitan life born in New York, but then you like lived in Hong Kong with your family for years and years and years. A couple of years also lived in Beijing. Also, you know I have a Chinese sister, n n Ni Nally. Oh my god, I can only describe my face right now, as Eliza Orleans ask was dropped. Oh gosh, that is truthful that you have your tones down, you know the tones.

Don't don't be bashful. This is incredible. Well, that's part of the Chinese culture, right. You don't accept a compliment under any circumstances. I know, like seventeen ways to say no, no, no, no, like that is you say so the first time he said, you know, my Chinese was good, and I said, which means where where? Where? It's like, you're not supposed to accept to compliment. And then the second day I was like, oh,

bug is like, don't flatter me. Don't you know all these different ways to not accept a compliment because the last thing you're supposed to do is just say like, oh, thank you, Like there really are a million ways to deflect. There really are. It's baked into the linguistic culture of of Mandarin. It's so funny. Um, that's I've always thought that was so cool. And UM, I don't know, I

just think you've you've really been. You've been about that jet set life, your whole your whole life, and I feel like that absolutely set you up for success on Survivor in the Amazing Race. Anyway. I just wanted to I just wanted to Amazing Race. We did not We were not great. We should have been batter at Amazing Race. But such as life, such as what was it that had your family relocate to China? So my dad's worked

in China my whole life. Um, he's you know, I mean he hasn't now been in a little while thanks to COVID, but he you know, he's worked there since before I was born. You know, speaks fluent Mandarin. Um. He's the president of the National Committee on US China Relations, so fostering the diplomatic relationship between the US and China, and it's always been a huge part of my life. When I was four, we went to Beijing adopted my

sister when she was just a few days old. Uh, And so you know, China has just been a massive part of my life. I literally before all of this, Bowen and I talked so much about going because I want to go so badly. The reason why I was saying and I truly just did the Eliza face as

this was all happening. The reason I said I kind of identified with you is because whenever I'm watching Survivor and there's tribal councils happening, and like ship's going down and people on the jury are just sort of stoic, I'm like a girl, my I would be acting the

biggest fool. And so you sort of became an iconic meme, really before memes for Survivor fans, for reacting to the many blind sides that unfolded um mostly as a result of the Black Widow Brigade, which was miss Amanda Surrey and parv Um sort of getting all the guys out there that were huge threats for the win. So I was watching you reacted to this like and truly it was so like active and just live. You were living

out loud. I mean, yes, there it is but I guess, like, were you even trying to hold back because you didn't want to like kind of disturb an outcome? Like what have you always been? Uh, not able to help yourself? Like me? It's like it's so funny. Yes, we're the same, Like I wear my emotions on my face, like I have to work extremely hard not to roll my eyes at things or like drop my jaw at things when

I am surprised by them. And people who know me in real life were like, oh, yeah, that's just her, Like you should see her sitting on her couch watching Survivor at home like oh my god, like screaming at the TV. But when it's happening on Survivor and you're sitting on the jury, you know you haven't seen all the things that have led up to that tribal council.

So you at home and watching, and even even people at home can be shocked, but you've just watched all the strategizing, everything that's gone down in those three days. As a juror, you're brought in completely blind, and so you're watching it and you think you know what's happening because you only left a few days earlier. You heard from someone, but then it's like just shocks you out of the blue, and I'm just a very expressive person. Yeah. This first season you did was season nine, so this

was very early, very early on. So something we talked to ParvE a lot about was what was it like, as a huge fan of the show to then watch your season and see yourself as an edited character? Because Bone and I talk a lot about, you know, the dissonance of seeing yourself being represented in a way that is slightly off what your own personal truth is. But yeah, I mean talk about that experience. Well, I mean I think I got just a great deal of enjoyment out

of it. Some people hate watching themselves back, and for me, it was like so exciting because there I was like living out my dream. You know, I loved Survivor from episode one of season one of the show. I watched the first season of Survivor and I turned to my mom and I was like, I'm going to be on that show. And she was like, of course you are, sweet heart. And now she says, be careful what you tell your kids because they all believe you. And and I you know, what's so funny, are you guys too

young to have had a o L instant messenger. Okay, so I had so obviously aim was like a big thing back then. And on my aim bio, I wrote Future Survivor nine Contestant nine because that was gonna be the first season I'd be eligible to apply for because I would turn twenty one and that was the minimum age. I turned twenty one a month before applications were due, and I was like, i'll be twenty one, I'll be on season nine. I calculated it's two per season. Da

da da, and I realized that season. So I was manifesting before it was cool. I like had it in my bio Future Survivor nine Contestant and then I was like, oh my god, I'm actually interviewing. I better take it off because they'll think that I'm like spoiling I'm like in violation of my contract. But I had it up there for years. That's the secret, yees. So then I like went on the show, and so even watching it back and just being like, oh my god, like I got to do this thing that I had like set

my sights on for years like that. I loved that I wanted to do so badly that even when I got a terrible edit and got all this like what they call negative SPV if you were ever an EDGIC fan second person visibility, so meaning everyone was saying bad things about me, right, Yeah, you kind of got that reputation of like, oh, she talks too much, She's like I do go, She's like, you know, over achieve verse. I think the word annoying might have been thrown around,

which I gotta say that they say about me too. Um. But you know, so watching that, was it bothering you or you kind of just like, no, I get it. I mostly found it funny, like I think, even and my mom was there, like I won the family visit. My mom was there and I was like and I was cracking up with her, and you see like a small clip of it, I'm like, Mom, everyone thinks I'm annoying.

And we were like laughing because you know, I'm like allowed you from New York, like compared to all these people who were like, oh, I mean at you once, she was real nice. You were there with a lot of like a lot of Southern characters. Yeah, especially towards the end there it was you and Miss Twila and Scout their names for Twila and scout y'all. Harperly could never. Well she literally did name one of her characters, but she could never. But she could never. It's actually a

really culture number thirty eight. Harper could never. So then so then you get then you get the call to Micronesia, and then you were on the favorite Tribe. Yes, and how does it so? Then now you're there with like all stars who you probably are a fan of. Oh yeah, I'm there with like Seree and Aussie and you know, Johnny freaking fair Play and all these these superstars. Penner. It was. It was pretty intimidating. And I know, I know my love and it. You know, I caught a

couple of unlucky breaks for sure, not that much. I really think I could have done differently. But it was still a great experience. I mean I got to be on I got to have my stick line, I got to be on the jury. Like it was still a really fun stick line. What I mean, I think you have a couple iconic lines because of course, and when

so you placed fourth in Vanuatsu. So not only are you like on the show, but you do great and it's it was just sort of a blind side of you at the Top four because Chris, who ultimately won this season, was sort of running the game at that point and it just he just got you. And then when you get up there for the Travelic Council, you call them both deceptive, lying bitches, and to have your reality TV moment and then you get to say you are a dece active, lying bitch has to feel pretty good.

I mean, sitting at Ponderosa writing out my speech being like and then I deliver it and I'm all, you know, with my arms and Top was great too. I was like one years old in my little tube Top. So basically she goes, my question is not really a question, it's a comment, and she says that the languages and she goes, I want an apology phenomenal to come in

with a demand a question final tribal counseling. So great, And so then you're on Micronesia and we can see sort of you know, it's an incredible season of television. I mean, even even if even for a non winner, you have to admit and be proud of being a part of that because it's like so so crazy. But a friend of the show PARV and you like, there was a little bit of like it felt like there could only be one Highlander like on that season. Oh listen,

we had it. We both had it out for each other from day one, and then I ultimately ended up being the vote that gave her the million dollars like poetic Yeah, yeah, I remember she talked about that too, like um, in retrospect, looking back, it's like, oh, had she heard even a little bit of how me and I was being like, then maybe she wouldn't have voted for me for the million. So interesting how things work out. Yeah, Poverty is like the ultimate mean girl, but she makes

it look good on Survivor for sure. She's a phenomenal Survivor player. Phenomenal. Yeah. I also and this is this is just meant in total earnest, Like I love the fact that she has transitioned from mean girl into like

yoga mom and like wonderful, wonderful, wonderful yoga mom. I just I just love thinking about Survivor just being this like frozen and Amber moment for people, and then like they like move on to do amazing things like write children's books about meditation or like in your case, you're a public defender with legal aid society, and then now you're running for Manhattan d A. It's like, oh, this is a lovely like not many reality shows have this sort of long term narrative that we can all follow

and track, and I feel like this is a very I don't know, it's just very cool to see what you're doing now. Um. And you send in interviews how being on these shows has helped you deal with people that you don't like, work with people you don't like, and even just withstand some weird negative assault on your

character or aspersions that are being cast upon you. Definitely, And I do think like there are so many people in the Survivor alumni community who are just phenomenal humans who are out there doing incredible things changing the world, fighting against injustice, you know, who have really shown up and supported me in my campaign and been there for and like just really stepped up in like such major ways. Um. And it's incredible to be connected with this group of humans.

That it's all because I went on this reality TV show and I was trying you one years old, Like that's wild, and it did prepare me in some ways, because I think there are so many things that running for office has also taught me. And I think that people, you know, you're just like reality TV. You're really putting yourself out there, and you're like, these are the things that I'm going to say, these are the things I believe.

This is who I am authentically, and even if they don't see all of you, like you're the things that are put out or are the real things about you. And so someone pulls like one little quote from something and that's what and you have to deal with it. And then you know, I think that you know, I've been getting rape and death threats in my inboxes for for you know, a decade and a half, so it's

nothing new. Um, it's so funny. I like put out something recently, like some I just was unhappy one morning or something, and I like screenshot at like three d m s I'd gotten in the last like thirty minutes. And it was just like a random Tuesday morning, and I put the three of them up and I was like, oh, this is, by the way, just in case you were wondering what women, women, candidates, women go through in general on social media, this is just what I've gotten this pint.

And people were like, oh my god, this is so terrible, Like, oh, I can't believe this. This is awful that you're doing.

I'm so sorry, and I'm like, oh, like this is just a random thirty minute period on a Thursday morning, Like this is this is typical, Like this is hundreds of times a week, and like, yeah, we like make light of this stuff and like the horrible things that happened when like I've been zoom bombed recently and called terrible things and screamed at, and you know, it's like you try and make light of it, you try and tell the story. But also you have to be a

resilient person. You have to have a pretty thick skin, um because otherwise when people tell you that they're gonna come kill you or that you should kill yourself, like maybe it would affect you, um in a in an intense way. Oh yeah, oh my gosh. Well I mean not to not to sort of like feigned disbelief women candidates going through venes, women in general going through this

social media landscape. But I mean that is just it really takes some kind of like psychic fortitude to like really, I don't know, build up your walls high enough to know that like this is not relevant, that the threats are that most of the time, these threats are meant to be taken seriously and are just meant to intimidate you, scare you from, scare you from doing the great thing

that you're doing right. And I think that part of being District Attorney is going to require like a pretty like intense resilience and the ability to be fearless in bringing prosecutions against those who are extremely powerful and well connected against holding the police accountable. You know, there there are people who will be out there who will seek to intimidate me, who will seek to threaten me and make it so that I don't act in a certain way.

And that's just you know, I'm not susceptible to any of that. You know you bring up Um, obviously you're running for d A and not only are you running firm Manhattan d A, which would be a huge undertaking

as is. Let's talk a little bit about Cyrus Evans, who's the current Manhattan d A. And I just want all the readers to listen up to some of the stuff that's gone down, Like as Cyrus Vance has held that office for the past a little bit over a decade, so this is this is just some stuff he declined to prosecute Harvey Weinstein in he dropped a fraud case against Ivanka and Don Jr. So I was just allowing with the wealthy and connected to get away with what

they get what they do. He argued for leniency in the case against Jeffrey Epstein, who we all know how that ended up after he raped legions and legions of thirteen fourteen year old girls. And um, you know, just generally has allowed the wealthy and the connected and the white to get away with murder. You know something that really stuck out to me as I was researching this in the last ten years. I don't know if you know this poem, seventy people have been arrested in New

York City for possession of what's called a gravity knife. Um, but Cyrus vans he'll just arrest seventy people because it's illegal to have this, but refuses to take action against the hardware stores that still sell this illegal product. And as of two thousand nineteen, it's no longer illegal. Because that was getting so fucking out of control, Cuomo finally

did something about it. But I mean, this is a corrupt individual who currently holds the office of Manhattan d A. And it's important to say flat out he is a Democrat, and it's not this is not a Republican d A. This is a corrupt establishment Democrat. Well, it's he's a deeply entrenched incumbent who again, who has been in office for ten ten years. He hasn't is it true? He

he hasn't officially announced that he will run for re election. Correct, he hasn't yet said whether he's running for re election. But he doesn't have to. And do you want to know why? Just another way in which these systems are built to maintain the status quo. Um, if you had wanted to give to Joe Biden or another candidate in the primary for president, you could donate a maximum of twenty hundred dollars and what's the limit for local action,

like thirty something five thousand dollars are individual donor. So you know, in the first filing period we raised three thirty something thousand dollars from over thirty five hundred donations, which is amazing. And I'm so proud of the grassroots movement that we're building and like getting all these people who are supporting who are giving a dollar two dollars,

five dollars, twenty dollars. It's amazing. But cive ants can spend an afternoon, he can call ten of his friends and say, hey, I need you to max out to me and raise three d fifty dollars from ten people in an afternoon. And this is how you know, this is why it's only ever been these very powerful people, powerful men, I should say, powerful white men, who have

held this office. It has only ever been held by white men in the history of that office in the last in my lifetime, in our lifetime, it's been two white men. It's been Cyrus Fans for nearly twelve years, and Robert Morgan thought his predecessor for thirty six years, and four white men in the last century. Wow. Wow,

And you, I think, are are? Are you the only public defender who's running for d A. And I've spent my career going up against that office, like going up against the pond S office, representing people who were charged by that office, who couldn't afford to hire a lawyer, who were, you know, charged with things as minor as jumping a turnstyle, you know, minor possession of marijuana, taking up two seats on the subway. Could you tell the story because this is what strikes This is what just

really struck me. And you often referenced this the gentleman with the groceries. Yeah, I would love to hear I've so all the readers can hear about that for sure. So um, I think it's I think I represented him my first year as a public defender. For the purpose of the story, I'll call him John for John Doe. And John was an asistant manager at a Gristiis in

Lower Manhattan. He'd worked at the same Gristiis for twenty five years, made his way up to assistant manager, and one night he was closing up the store at about eleven pm, he bought two bags of groceries with his employee discount, locked up the store, and walked over to the A train to head home to Upper Manhattan. And he got on the subway not crowded, put his bags on the seats next to him, and prepared for his

long ride home. At the street stop, two uniformed NYPD officers got on the train, grabbed John's groceries, dumped them on the ground, and placed him in handcuffs, and proceeded to take him to jail for the night for the crime of occupying multiple seats on a transit facility. That's unbelievable. That and and he's how long was he taking up two seats on the train? Spent the next train, so then you were able to get him out the next day. But I got him out of jail the next day.

But that's that doesn't Yeah, it doesn't change the fact and traumatized. All his family's groceries were thrown out, you know, he was he you know, didn't get to sleep at home, maybe he missed work the next day. Like it's all the things that happened to you from from being just arrested, even spending a day in jail is just it's horrifying. The amount of stories I've heard, just anecdotally, of people jumping turnstiles, who get like slammed up against a fucking wall.

Like these are like women, I'm talking. I've heard stories from like elderly women who have been like slammed up against subway walls for like whatever fair evasion, I guess, but they just kind of like found themselves having to like do it. And that's not to like whatever, but I mean it's just like it none of it ever scales to the actual like like the victimless I mean, there's a distinction made to be made here about a

victimless crime, right I mean? And then yes, exactly, But the thing is jumping a turnstyle isn't is class a misdemeanor. You face up to one year in jail for theft of services, So it's non infraction, even though like we think of it as being like you stole two dollars and seventy five cents, Like it should be an infraction. It should be a civil It should be something that is never ever ever punished by criminalization, by incarceration, by

locking someone up in a cage like that. And also not to mention the cost to taxpayers, it costs nine and seventy five dollars to put someone on Riker's Island for one night, so like you could put someone in the nicest in New York City, like and it doesn't call you know, It's like when you think about the way in which we spend this money to to police, to surveil, to prosecute, to incarceerate people, when we could be investing that in in helping people, in investing in people,

in addressing the underlying issues they're facing. It's just like we need to reimagine this, we need to think about transforming this system. And so I would imagine that you are in favor of defunding the police. Yes, we spend six billion dollars on policing like these. This is there is no there's no amount of like retraining that's going to fix the problem. We need to reallocate those resources into social services, into education and school and housing and

food and everything. Yes, yes, very much. So I'm curious what your take is on the current um discussion that's happening in the Democratic Party about why those house seats were lost and why even why more house seats were lost. We have are we're we're in danger of being lost. We have these more moderate Democrats saying that the messages of Green New Deal, of defund the police, these things

drove voters away. And then you have sort of AOC coming with the receipts, which are here's everyone that supported Medicare for all and they all got elected to or they were they were all re elected and what this message is not entirely factual. I would imagine that you

know you're off. I mean, I think that there are I think that there there has to be recognition that not all districts are the same, and that there are people who, you know, we were in safe districts and people who are in swing districts, and we need to

address things differently within those districts, etcetera, etcetera. But like I really, yeah, I really obviously find myself much more on the progressive wing of the party in that, you know, I think that it really is important, especially in places where people are receptive to the messages, to not be afraid to call out the things that are happening, to call out you know, systemic racism and injustice and these these things that exist that continue to oppress and marginalize

members of our communities. And so I think that that there really is no there's no world in which like I would not be calling those things out. But I think that, you know, we have to we have to recognize that, um, not all districts are the same, and that there are other things in play regarding how someone lost a district more than just oh they didn't support

medicare for all. I think it's more nuanced and complicated than that, of course, and it's so it's I I always hate how you know that it gets funneled through the media and then all we can see is the argument and not the fact that like there really shouldn't be a fucking argument, you know what I mean, Like the we have we're dealing with white supremacy in in our policing, like and it's it's it's that's how it's

that's how it was created. And you know, just in terms of facts, you know, a mass incarceration is up five percent over the past forty years, and the crime rates are not higher. Correct, it's I mean, can you speak a little bit to that, Like it's just that should say at all? Well, I mean, we we continue to incarce rate people for things like drugs. I mean, I think like the war on drugs has been like the biggest failure. It's not been a war on drugs,

It's been a war on people. And that's people of color, l g B, t Q, i A, folks, you know, people with disabilities. It has just served to marginalize and oppress people. And I think, like what we can take away from this most recent election, like one of the most positive things, I mean, aside from evicting the current occupant of the White House. Is that everywhere that drugs were on the ballot, we won. Everywhere criminal justice reform

was on the ballot, we won. And people are finally coming around to understanding that criminalizing human beings is not the answer, and that we need to legalize marijuana, we need to decriminalize all drugs. We need to favor you know,

rehabilitation and treatment over punishment. And because when we lock people up, we're doing nothing to address a substance used disorder that someone's facing, nothing to address mental health issues that someone's facing, and maybe someone's self medicating with with drugs or alcohol. But like that doesn't mean that locking

them up is going to solve any of that. And so it was really heartening to see those measures pass um you know, in Oregon and other places where where that was on the ballot, because this is a really big element on your platform, which is to divert um any little level drug charge or offense to a treatment program. I mean, that's like a big sort of item on your on your platform, which I don't want to prosecute

low level drug offenses at all. I mean, we haven't decriminalized um all drugs here in New York and hopefully in the next session they're going to legalize marijuana. But but I hope that one day legislatively they will fix that in New York. But until they do, we need to elect prosecutors like me who say it doesn't matter whether or not this laws on the books. I get to use my discretion as the elected district attorney, and I will not prosecute drug possession anymore personal use possession.

We will not prosecute that because all we're doing is either criminalizing a substance used disorder or criminalizing someone using drugs for what, for their own enjoyment or something. I mean like, but either way, when we talk about victimless crimes, like we talk about things that all we are doing

is hurting people, hurting individuals, hurting their families. You know, people people get so riled up and they talk about, oh my god, Donald Trump has a family separation policy, and he's separating families on our southern border, and yet there's a family separation policy in your backyard. The district

attorney is acting in your name. They stand up in court every day and say on the behalf of the people of the state of New York, and they separate families because the people who are getting locked up are people's children. They're people's parents, there are people's spouses, Um, there are people's siblings. And these are people who are

getting locked up for things like possessing drugs. And that's why it's crucial to change the d A because if the d A doesn't change, the d A is the person that decides whether or not to prosecute these things. So can anything really change in the city if we don't change the d A, I mean flat out not

really right, No, it'll be extremely difficult. You know, like having a district attorney who is like Saivance, who's really like extremely punitive, extreme, you know, perpetuates this like lock them up throwing the key mentality when it pertains to the majority of people in this city, you know, low income folks, black and brown folks, etcetera. It really just it perpetuates mass incarceration. It um, it actually doesn't make

our city safer. Um when people say, oh, well, what about like, oh, you're gonna be letting out people who are criminals or something, you know that there's like this this this US versus them mentality, and the the current yer's office is really you know, use this language, this dehumanizing language. Oh, people are criminals, spelons, inmates, bodies, prisoners. All the language they use is so that people associate, Oh,

it's them, It's not me, it's them. But when I tell stories like that of John and someone's like, oh my god, Like I put my purse on the seat next to me all the time, a crime I would not have even known. You weren't supposed to do that. Laying down on a park bench as a crime, you know,

it's literally called obstruction of a park bench. Um, you know, putting something down on the sidewalk like immovable object, like it's There are so many things that are that are crimes in this city, but that they're only criminalized if you are a person of color, if you are someone who's low income, if you are someone who's experiencing homelessness. You know. And so having a district attorney who thinks about these people as people, as people who truly humanizes

every single person. And that all comes from my lived experience of being a public defender and representing thousands of people and hearing all of their stories and meeting their families and sitting at their kitchen tables, and and seeing what their families go through when they are locked up. And and the reality is like, it doesn't make us safer when we lock people up. You know, we're sold this false choice, but it's not what's keeping us safe now.

Because another thing about this sort of criminalizing criminal language that people use, where you're saying that it creates this US versus the mentality, is that it also, on top of that, I think, just compartmentalizes our understanding of the actual criminal activity that's happening in our neighborhoods, which is predatory land predatory landlords, um wage theft, over policing of

like neighborhood it's just in a blanket way exactly. That's it's it's it's it's letting those things sort of live very invisibly without people having this awareness of that thing actually being criminal. Like the way that your landlord is exploiting you is the actual criminal thing. That person is the actual criminal who has maybe never been on rikers,

but is it owns your fucking building, right exactly. And when you talk about wage theft, like if you think about the fact that like I mean, I can't even tell you how many people I've represented who have been charged with theft crimes for going into a CBS and stealing you know, a pint of ice cream or a Snickers bar or something, you know, something that's truly worth like four dollars nine cents or less, and they get prosecuted, held in jail, sent to jail, you know, et cetera.

And then the person who's committing wage theft to the tune of millions, maybe tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions of dollars, that person is not prosecuted. If any reper questions even come to that person, they're usually just okay, a fine, civil penalties, you know. And it's like the same goes for for you know, people who are operating construction sites where where their workers are in danger, where their union laborers are in danger. Right, But how is

that a civil thing and not a criminal thing? Is Well, for the most part, these things don't really get investigated. But if there are sometimes investigations by the Attorney General's office, like then they'll be civil penalties rather than um criminal

got it? Okay? I have another maybe wonky question. It might not even be wanting, but I'm curious it seems like Manhattan DA has this special relationship with the nip D and maybe this is a civance thing, but like like NYPD gets to prosecute certain criminal cases out of their own legal sort of unit or bureau or whatever. Is that is that true? I mean, can you can you maybe break that down for someone like me who

doesn't really know how that so? Yes, So the NYPD, I think recently, which we heard during the protests, moved They're they're people who sit in the Manhattan DA's office out when Van said he was going to dismiss some of the protesters cases in in protests themselves, they moved out. And it's like, what what the hell were they doing

there in the first place? Like having the police in the d a's office and having this close relationship where they're you know, giving money or they're supporting or their whatever, like, it means that the d A is not independent, is not able to bring the cases necessary to hold them accountable. And so there's just misconduct is just rampant. It's rampant, and it's and and the misconduct that I talked about, it's not just um it's well, first of all, obviously,

it's what we see on these videos. It's the the assaults and brutalization and harassment and terrorizing um and you know, harming the members of our communities first of all. But then it's there's more than that. There's the false arrests. There is the um, the perjury. You know, their their their police offic So they walk into the court, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and

nothing but the truth? I do, And then that person lies under oath, either in front of a judge, in front of a jury, in front of a grand jury, and there are zero repercussions, none, and oftentimes defense counsel can't even find out about it. You know, their misconduct is shielded by the d a's office, and so the Manhattan DA has just been absolutely complicit in this, you know, completely repetitive and awful misconduct by the NYPD. And so you know, it's just past time that we that we

hold them accountable for these harms. And they know right now that they're not gonna be held accountable, and so

they really just operate with impunity. And this is why, this is really why I think it's important to let people know that you're the only I feel like it's to have a public defender be district attorney, would would actually be the most impactful means of not just forming but yeah, like, as you say, transforming that office in a way that actually benefits everybody, not even self, you know, yeah,

for anyone moved right now while this is happening. If you're if you're getting angry about the state of things, you can go to Aliza Orleans dot com and make a donation. I'm a proud donor. And um uh well, I'll remind you again at the end of the episode. But um, I wanted to ask um just specifically about um all of this in relation to the pandemic, which is ongoing. Even though we have some promising news about potentially a vaccine that's out this week. We will see

our fingers are crossed. But I wanted to ask you from your view, has the incarceration rates slowed or decreased in any way as a response to the prison system being a breeding ground for this virus or do you still see a concerning rate with which this is all happening. It is incredibly concerning. Actually we're being right now. I think data was just released in the last couple of days that we're seeing an increase in the number of

people at Rikers Island in the capacity there. And I think that it is so dangerous to be holding people in jails and prisons, especially during a pandemic. I mean, what we saw is that the rates of infection in our jails and prisons were more than ten times that of New York City, even when New York City was

at its worst back in in March April. And I mean it makes you know, if you think about it, It's like people entering our jails in prisons are already some of the most vulnerable in our society, and during incarceration, that vulnerability is just exacerbated by tightly confined spaces, inadequate access to medical care, unsanitary conditions. You know, no soap, um, you know, no no toilet paper, thirty to forty people sharing a toilet, mess halls where you're sitting shoulder to

shoulder with people eating off of dirty trays um. You know, hand sanitizer is literally contraband when you are in jail, there's certainly no ability to social distance. They were telling people, oh, sleephead to foot instead of both heads facing the same direction when the beds are eighteen inches apart. That is not social distancing. You know, jails are incubators and there's

no way to keep disease from spreading. So this is you know, and and said vance during the pandemic, instead of decarcerating, instead of releasing as many people as he possibly could, he was still actively sending people to Rikers Island, actively asking for bail on people. You know, a fifty three year old man died um who was incarcerated on a technical parole violation, which for those who don't know, means he missed a curfew or missed a meeting, or

had dirty urine for smoking marijuana. Like this is a person who was sentenced to death because of this. And so you know, this just means that that the d a's policies have more of an imp act on this than ever and and this is just completely urgent, as COVID once again surges, Yeah, this this actually reminds me of something else. That's because it's also part of your platform to close Rikers and UM make sure that there's no more new prisons UM developed built in the state

City New York statewide. Like that's that's part of what you're doing. And I also was really struck by UM. Currently in place in Manhattan is the conviction Integrity program U s d A would establish a conviction review unit. Can you talk about the difference between what you're proposing UM in terms of UM what what exists currently? Definitely and and the the current conviction integrity unit has no integrity.

I mean, it's window dressing. And it's just it's like the idea that we should be not thinking about reviewing cases where we know that officers our UM people who have committed misconduct and yet their testimony served as the soul basis for someone to end up incarcerated, serving decades or serving life. Uh, you know, it's it's completely outrageous.

So I think that you know, we need to be reviewing We need to not only be reviewing for for innocence claims, but we also need to be reviewing sentences. We need to be reviewing cases where someone's detained pre trial. UM. We need to be thinking about those things. And especially in terms of a wrongful conviction unit, you know, it needs to be completely overhauled and it needs to be

fully staffed. There need to be people who are working in conjunction with an Innocence Commission to screen cases to make sure that we're avoiding future wrongful convictions. And you know, I think all of doing all of those things will hopefully, you know, restore public trust in in this system. Yeah. Absolutely.

And also I just all readers should should remember and know that you know, choke holds have been illegal in New York for decades, and that you know, we still saw what happened to Eric Garner, and so these that's what we talked about when we talk about misconduct, you know what I mean, It's not just like someone not doing their due diligence here and there. It's things that result in the loss of human life. So that's um,

it's just important to say out loud. Um, I think we should probably take a quick break, yes, and then come back and ask the question, Oh, okay, we're back with the Lives of Orleans. If you, like me, UM, are very motivated by everything she's saying on this episode, I would encourage you to donate lines of Orleans dot com. I'm going to donate as soon as we get off this zoom, and you better trust and believe I will.

I'm gonna maybe think about maxing out to the um perhaps honestly, and just remember that Civans can call up his damn friend and they're going to write a damn check, So we should all be writing the same check. Max out max out for Eliza title of up mat, I think you should ask the question. Okay, so Eliza Um. On every episode of Last Cultures, we ask a question of our guests, and that question is what was the

culture that made you say culture was for you? So this is that thing that happened that a young developmental age could be in the pop culture, could be the culture surrounding you that you look back and say, wow, that made me. Eliza Orleans, well, I think we already kind of covered it, but I swear it was summer two thousand. It was the first ever season Survivors. Like it made me me. I was like, oh, I'm gonna go beyond that show, Like I'm gonna I'm going on

that show. Like I watched Richard Hatchet along with fifty million other people made that million dollars, and I like, watch that rat and Snake speech, you know, Sue Hawk, And I was like, you you knew you were going to get your Sue Hawk speech one day and damn well, Like like where would you did you did you have an awareness of like where this ambition was being placed before, like pre Survivor, Like what were you Like, Like I feel like once you once you see something like Survivor

and you're like, I'm gonna be on that show. I feel like that implies that you had some sort of like you're a goal oriented person. But then like what were your goals before that? Well, so this is so funny. This is a funny. It's a I guess it's a thing that everybody does, like goal setting. Right. I was like, I'm going to learn Mandarin. I like, you know, I spoke when I was a kid, so like the tonal stuff was kind of in the back of my head. So I minored in Mandarin in college. I was like,

I'm going to run a marathon. I ran a marathon. I was like, I'm gonna, you know, take my l SATs and go to law school and and you know, and I was like, oh, I'm gonna go on Survivor and I'm gonna be a public defender and so like these are just gold and now I'm like I'm gonna

be the next Manhattan DA. So you are I urg around this and I know that the deck is so it can feel so stacked, but I mean, I just have so much belief that people, that real people can figure out that this is something that would make a huge difference. And you know, when people talk about caring about local politics as much as we do national politics, this is what we're talking about. This is what it is.

And if there can be anything positive taken from the Trump administration, it's that I know, and I know so many people that know that we will never feel complacent again in our lifetimes. Because how could you I mean, like you were saying, like in terms of how things shook out with the legalization of drugs around the country, I mean we did. We did have an amazing um increasing of the squad in in the House, you know

what I mean. I'm so excited for Corey Bush and you know everyone, Jamal Bowman, you know, I mean, it's so many people that are going to you know, become a part of that voice in the House. And yes, we did, quoe unquote, lose some seats, but we what we gained in the in that vocal minority in the House right now, which is really speaking for us the people so it really is. It's just so exciting. I'm so excited for you. I really do. I'm excited too,

and like, I really know we can do this. I know we can do this, and it's gonna be it's gonna be a tough fight, but I know that we can get a public defender to the Manhattan DA's office and truly like bring this bold transformational change that the whole rest of the country will look at and be like, wow, we can do it too. We can do that. That's how we can have justice. That's what equity and justice, that's what it looks like. Yeah, and I think I

have I have thinking to myself. I was thinking to myself, like, if only you had um sort of positively manifested winning survivor and not just being on Survivor, may I nothing, but you got damn clue. I saved it to the Manhattan DA race my winning manifestation. I do want to ask, and I always actually we talked a lot with part of about Edge of Extinction, but and how what a miserable physical experience that is and and so demoralizing and everything.

But for you on your first season, y'all experienced an earthquake, crazy storms. What was the hardest thing about being on Survivor? I mean, I've never been so hungry in my life. It is like this. It is all consuming. I mean to the point where every time you stand up, you like go black behind your eyes because you're eating like a couple of hundred calories a day. I lost like more than a fifth of my body weight, Like I

was like down to bones, Like it was really bad. Um, I was truly starving, and like my hair was falling out in clumps like it was. It was rough. And I guess my question is, so you get onto the get on the beach, and you're probably like we spoke on the phone a couple of months ago and you described it as a shit eating grin that you were wearing while and then then you go through that experience what they do on some seasons of Okay, here's a map and carry all your ship and find the camp.

How quickly does it set in? How quickly does it go from I'm on my favorite show to funk, I'm a human being in the on an island, you know what I mean? Ten minutes, Like the first ten minutes, I'm like, dude, did you we're on the show, and then it's like, oh my god, it's getting dark. We have to And then half the people are like, we should just hunker down here for the night, and I'm like, you know what, what do you nuts? Like, we're gonna go find our camp like anyhow, It's just yeah, it's

a total it's a disaster. It's like immediate. And then you forget the cameras are on. You're exhausted and paranoid and starving and just just trying to survive, So you do genuinely forget that the cameras are there. I mean,

it's not that you forget, it's just that you stopped caring. Yeah, so you understand them to be part of the environment, like a natural part of the environment, almost right, But if you had wanted to present some polished version of yourself when you are that depleted and starving and emotional and you don't sleep and everyone's trying to vote you out, like you can't even if you wanted to, Like, I mean, I've gone thirty days without seeing my mom before um,

they told us that we were playing for a video chat with our loved one. And then after I won the challenge, Jeff was like, well, Leza, wouldn't it be better if your mom were here? Susan come on out? And I'm like, bad, oh my god, I always cry. I always cry, like sobbing, like sobbing crying like my mom's coming out. I mean, it was just it's just hysterical. But you're so emotionally drained and just so starved for like someone you love and trust, and it's it's yeah,

it's tough. Well then, because I feel like I can barely follow the forty chest that's being played from home. And I'm like, if I am physically drained, emotionally drained, mentally drained, I don't have it in me to like plot certain blind sides or like checking on my alliances. I'm like that's the part of the the the entire

game of Survivor that like really confounds me. And I'm so amazed by it that the people are able to operate in this very like hyper aware way and like be very nuanced and they're thinking, and I'm just like, I can't even do that when I'm like fully fed, fully sheltered. Any of that. Fields is a witch. She has something going on in her brain that is she should be president of the United States because because for me, it's just like you're talking about all this stuff and

you're saying ten minutes and you're already like fuck. I mean, well that's like days and weeks into the show and she's able to engineer this thing that gets as out. I mean, they all just so brilliant. She's so brilliant. She's got a should be she should be like a hospital. She should be like a hospital ad in or something like. She she's a nurse, she's been a nurse for all these years, and she's she's incredible, but she should she has like the like the the experience to like lead

a whole fucking operation. I mean also like then it's just it's just crazy to me, just like you you watching it, I think we're this is so insane to say, but she was all of us, Like I say, we were going to bring back the expression Aliza is all of us right now. Um, but like in watching it, like it's so shocking, and then are you like well fed when you're at Ponderosa, which is where you go, so you you you're then you're just chilling and like party.

So wait, funny story. So in my first twenty four hours after getting voted out, so I had lost twenty pounds and and in the first twenty four hours after I got voted out, I gained seven pounds. Are you kidding? But like my finger were like sausages like like every because like I hadn't had any salt or anything, so like I had cankles, like everything was. I was like retaining water. It was. I was a mess, and I had a parasite. I was super sick for a very

long time. Yeah. See that's the whole other thing of it all, is it like what is happening to your your digestional system. Not to get crazy here, but every time, like I was watching one of the seasons during my binge, and I believe it was Caraman or something, and it was they were all competing for cookies and milk, and so they win and they're like shoving down these cookies and milk, and someone on the other team just goes,

you don't want that. It's just diarrhea. You're competing. It's insane that there and the coffee and all that stuff. Of course, in the moment, I was like, oh, you're not gonna do I like ever, like hold back and not eat the thing or drink the coffee or do and I'm like, no, you do, and then it just makes you horribly ill, like you're not gonna not eat

or drink anything they give you. But of course it makes you so sick because you won one of those big um you want to challenge which and this is whenever, like we were so um we were watching uh this season China and it was like so frustrating when PG was just she didn't win a single thing. And then they all got to have this experience. Like I'm always so bummed out when people don't get to have like

the cultural experience for whatever as they're going. And you actually won the challenge in Vanuatu and you got to have that experience. Could you talk a little bit about like just getting to experience like that culture. It was so incredible, Like we got included in this feast and we met the children and we got to like spend the night there and participate in their ceremonies and cooking and everything, and like it was so incredible, like really

truly like a once in a lifetime opportunity. And so yeah, it's really sad for the people who miss out on that, not just for like a night of decent sleep or meal. It's like the cultural experience is so so so important. Yeah, I just remember my heart broke for her in that moment when she was like, I'm being excluded from everything, and you could tell that was that was the Great

Wall trip. That was the Great Wall trip pg PG want the challenge where the where she did win the cultural she did get she did when the Great Wall thing happened. I was like, because I remember the first episode because she was she was so touched to be there because like it's it's you know, like it's her culture and like you know, it meant so much to her. And then when she didn't get to go to the

Great Wall, I was like, fuck everyone else. I was like, I hate this, but you truly did win that experience and I was gonna I get here from the digestion of it all because you were like not holding back on that food and I'm like, girl, I don't know, like I get like the impulse control is that a zero? Because you need to eat? But then I keep thinking their stomachs are so so shrunk, like your body is probably acting a fool. And I won the I won the car. You won the car. She came with a

big dinner, which made us very sick. That was a challenge to I know, I know that, and the loved ones visit. Yeah, I know, my god, Eliza Orleans, everybody. I don't know if I don't think so Honey is related to it. But what are your broad impressions of what's gone down in the last week, you know what I mean? I want to hear from you, like where where were you? What's your experience with all of this before we get out and think so Honey, Oh my gosh, um,

it's like hard to even believe that it's real. Like I think it's still sinking in for me that we that we beat Trump. But I think, you know, election night was tough, Like like you both were saying at the beginning, this was this was hard and it was not a referendum on Trump and the rest of the GOP, which has been completely complicit with all of the horrors

that he's perpetrated over these last four years. So I think that was pretty devastating to witness and to be like, wow, seventy million people and even if we win, like seventy million people in this country voted for him, like agree with all of these horrible things that he's done. Um. But then of course when it was announced, I met up with people and we danced in the streets and we cheered and we chanted USA, and it was like we can be like proud to be American again. You know.

It's like it's like, let's let's take back the Americans, let's take back patriotism, let's take that. You know. So that's and then and then the next day I was like, so, do we get to start protesting Joe Biden yet or to because I I spoke with you right after he announced comalass VP and I asked how you were feeling and you were like not great, You're feeling great, yeah, but honestly. But then of course I got down to business and I was like, all right, now got win.

It all costs, Like we have to win this, um, and we can push for the progressive policies that need to happen, we can push to end things, but like we had to get them. We had to get them a win um. And it is historic. I mean when I watched her speak, I cried, and you know I cried watching him speak. I was like he wasn't even in my top five. Like and I'm crying speaking, It's like this just this emotional emotional build up over over four years of really fighting back and resisting and pushing

for for change. So it's it's definitely historic. And I'm I'm certainly you know, happy ish with the results and and we'll keep But you know the problem is, I think some people are like, Okay, cool, now what are you guys all gonna do with all your mental space and energy. I'm like, whoa, whoa. Work is not done. It's just needs to work even harder, Like this is

the beginning exactly. And you know, like, like I said at the top of the app um, these leaks about what the what the cabinet choices might be, are not it you guys, And I mean we need to be really really um stride and vocal about that. I know you referred to yourself proudly as a Warren Democrat. Do you see any role for her and that administration? Or you think she's good where she is in the Senate. She should be in the administration. You know, she should

be wherever she wants. And if that's Treasury secretary, she should be Treasury secretary. She would be incredible, incredible in the administration. Have you met her? Yes, three times? That's the cool. Have you seen the pictures of me from the first time I met her? I was actually I was kind of just asking. I didn't know you knew that. So I was walking with a friend, actually the friend that I was celebrating with on the streets on Saturday. Um.

We were walking from Union Square up UM. I think we were walking up Park Avenue South, and I was we were talking about Elizabeth Warren because I'm like, I was like always talking about this is when she was still running obviously, and I was and I was like, I really truly believe. I think she's gonna be our next president. Like she's so amazing. And I go, oh my god, there she is. My friend goes what and

I go, there's Elizabeth Warren. And then I took off and I ran across the street and she It was the night of the CNN Climate town hall, so she was just walking because that's what she does. She walks like ten miles a day. She's like, you know, and she's very recognizable in her card again and her Oh my god. And I was like and She's standing there and she's got a few people around, and I was like, oh my god. I was like, can I say hi? Can I? Is it okay if I say hied her?

And they were like, give us your phone. So they just started snapping pictures of me, and I am doing my Eliza things of being like like my my like neck tendons or like bulgeit. I'm like freaking out. I'm so excited. I'm like, I was just talking about you. I love your criminal justice reform plan. Thank you for mentioning public defenders. I mean, I'm just like gushing, like embarrassing me. I was shaking, and I like, I've met like legit celebrities. I've met like super Bowl winning athletes.

I have met like rock stars, like top number one on the charts, top musicians, and I'm like, Hi, nice to meet you on and like the only meltdown I've ever had over anyone like that that was embarrassing Shan Girling was Elizabeth worn I gotta say, We're being at SNL on the last show before Lockdown. Everybody at that show, including our very good friend, our best friend, Sudie Green, who's worked at that show for six seasons, never get starstruck,

knows what the boundaries are. She was like, it was the first time you've ever seen her nervous around someone. She's like, I'm nervous. I was like, that's her hero, and like I was so, so, so nervous to meet her. And it was just such a seamless, natural, warm interaction where she was like would you like a picture? Immediately just was like would you like a picture? And we were like yes, Um yeah, just like what if? What if? What? What?

What if? What a figure? I mean, like her and Bernie just kind of really shifted my whole definite view of what can be done, of what a candidate could be. Um, that's that's amazing. That's amazing that you've gotten, that you've gotten to meet her. You know, she's incredible. I mean I idolized her. The party better too, because like the Democratic Party, like sometimes it's annoying how big of attent it is because you feel like you're screaming to be heard.

But it really was kind of inspiring to see there was there was like a lot of exchange of very different ideas all throughout our debate process and our primary process, and I know a lot of people were frustrated with the primary process. But I actually thought, you know, at least all of these things are being spoken out loud on a on a world stage. I mean, now they

are saying things like medicare for all. It's like part of people's everyday language, you know what I mean, Like defund the police is it has traction and like everyone everyone, you know, if you're on the right side of things, you're behind it. Like so these things, I mean, we've shifted the overton window on a lot of a lot of topics where you know, people were not talking about these I mean even even on criminal justice issues, you know. I mean Joe Biden is the first president elected in

our country who says categorically we should abolish the death penalty. Yeah, it's a big deal, big deal, you know. He says things like we should end cash bail, we should abolish like it is. I mean, listen, is he as progressive as as as any of us want? No? Probably not.

But like the fact that these things are being said, and the fact that that there are people within our party who just continue to push for those things, is is a really big deal, really big deal, especially those who were on the national stage, people like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders and Julian Castro, like who really pushed these things? Absolutely, And you know Biden's only saying these things because they were pushed so hard by these individuals

or else else. You better, you better bet your bottom dollar they would not being said. Um so, and you know that's because the man's inclination is to float Meg Whitman for the cat. So that's that's that's kind of where there's a rub um. But anyway, Yeah, I just wanted to want it to get And just before we move on, what do you think about, um, the legal challenges? Just as obviously someone in the legal profession, what do

you think about what he is doing? Is it just sort of like he's within his rights to check that the election was I guess, quote unquote fair. Um, do you think there's any validity to to this? Like, what's your feedback, um to all of us who's watching this sort of happen as Trump disputes the result, Um that these are completely baseless. He's gone over ten and he will continue to be defeated in the courts because even Republican judges are going to uphold the rule of law.

And this is an absolute ridiculous you know, grasping at Straw's effort. Very sassy week for the judiciary, very much that very that. Um. Okay, so um, I'm gonna have to have a sassy week for the judiciary on that, on that one. Okay. So now to move on to I don't think so honey. Um. There's just so much too. I think so honey, And I don't think so honey. But I have narrowed down to something. It is not political, um, but might be for some m hmm. Okay. Do you

think I'm really interested to see what this is? This is Matt Rodgers, I don't think so, honey. As time starts now, I don't think so honey. When you're things are freezing in the frigerator, okay, I'm sorry, honey, but the last I checked, thing's supposed to freeze and the freezer, mama. And if I'm going to my refrigerator and I'm looking at the settings and everything seems copasetic, why is my lacroix frozen in the fridge? I don't think so, honey.

This is a bullshit, because I'll tell you what happens when a liquid is frozen, Honey, it's much more difficult to drink. And I if I'm going to the fridge to pull out of something, a can of something, then I better be able to drink it, because if I wanted it to be frozen, it would be in the fridge. It's like Nicki Minaj said, if I wanted to be drinking the pickle juice, I'll drinking pickle juice right now. But anyway, I have a very similar situation between my

fridge and my freezer. Someone, please reader with knowledge on the situation. If you are an expert on fridges five the way that allies is an expert on our legal system, then please reach out to me and to make me understand why this is happening, because until then I don't think so, honey, And that's woman. Can I say something? I am, You can say whatever you want. I'm experiencing the same exact issue my the other stuff, my Blomberg fridge.

It's missing an oh. First of all, that's pathetic. B L O M B E R G like hello at an extra O. And then make me question whether or not this is from a billionaire. But my fridge and I'm and I'm like turning it up to like the highest temperature setting, but it's still freezes my ship. I don't know what crazy is going on. And then I have, and then I'm an idiot. I'm like, because if you can't get your fridge to keep your stuff cold, I really hate when I pull out a can of Seltzer

and it's like not cold enough. I'm like, what that is so New York. That is so New York fridge. No, I'm experiencing it. It's these ship New York fridges and these New York appliances that don't work. And that's another reason why I say, go West, young man, binary friends, come out West, come to Los Angeles. I used to be you. I used to say, no, it's okay. I'll deal with the cold winters and the fridges that are that keep my beverages too warm and don't don't cool anything.

Now I'm over it. But then again, here I am in a Los Angeles apartment in the the lacroix are frozen. So I don't know what to say. But someone reach out to Matt. If you're if you're an expert on l A fridge operations, please someone. One of the cultures is out there that knows fridge culture. It's so disappointing. I tried to make myself a little drink before this, because you know, the Lost cultures have been getting a little loose on the episodes. Um, this is our first

episode with a guest in four episodes. Yes, and we're so honored that. I'm um. Anyway, I'll continue to keep the world updated on my fridge maladies. But in the meantime, let's have Bowen Yang's. I don't think so, honey. What do you say I have. I have a huge one. I think. I think it's hot. Hot, it's going to start a movement. Okay, I love whenever we preemptively declare a movement will start because of I don't think so honey.

Because this happened a couple weeks ago when I said I don't think so honey, and then it was the people protesting outside of Disneyland that had to stop that. Counter protests even it was really ridiculous, and I just want to say they have not been successful. Disneyland is still right fully closed to the city of Anaheim and the County of Orange. Um. Okay, so this is Bowen Yang's. I don't think so any and his time begins now.

I don't think so, honey, A five G get new PR because no one knows what the hell your deal is. You have people saying, oh my god, it's it's you know, COVID happened because people are setting up five G towers, or you have or you have me. I don't believe those conspiracies. But I'm all over here, like, what the hell is ultra wide band? I don't know. You're not

communicating effectively what you even are. I cannot align myself with whether or not I like you five G if I support you five because I don't know what the hell you are. I thought I had five G LT this whole damn time on my iPhone eleven Pro, and then I upgrade to it to A twelve and it's still and it's I still get the same L T E A T and T is has not upgraded to ultra wide band. But and yet I don't know what ultra wide band is. I don't know five G as

an overall concept. Five G. You have to just present yourself better. You have not had the debut Tom five for us to know who you are you are not. You have not introduced yourself rightly into high society and that one minute. And I just want to say, when you started going off about ultra wide, five G, etcetera, you might as well have been speaking Mandarin as if you were at the beginning of this episode. Because I don't know what any of this is five G. I

don't know what. I'm pretty good at parsing out all of this technical stuff I have, no I cannot really too. I don't even know what the hell is going on with this five G. Okay, now it's time for Alis the Orleans. I don't think so. I'm like nervous. I've been like thinking about this all day because I wanted to be pop culture but like kind of like Clase I related. You guys have no idea, like obsessed about it. Okay,

I think I nailed it. I think I got a good one that is a really good overlap between my my platforms and pop culture. Here we go, bo yango, are you gonna count it down? Yes, this is a Liz of Orleans. I don't think somebody her time starts now. Okay, I don't think so, honey. Copaganda, heroical depictions of the police. It is a widespread tactic by the police and the media. And I don't think Sonny the air TVs and movies that portray cops as heroes. They do performative displays of solidarity,

sometimes moments for tear gassing innocent protesters. I hate turning on my TV and seeing these shows that are making millions of dollars which glorifies and justifies and normalizes the systemic violence and making heroes out of police and prosecutors. As a public defender for my whole career, I know

that this is not the reality. And yet these shows employ former police officers as their consultants and downplay the presence of police violence against last people, and they normalize police misconduct and violent crime is down, and yet most Americans believe crime is going up because of this, and it makes it harder for us to push the systemic change. And as someone who is going to change these things, I need them to stop this straight up capaganda. Yeah,

and that's one minute. That was one of the best ones we've had in months. Oh my gosh, so right. That is the definition of I don't think so, honey. That is exactly right, and especially in the current sort of way that we all consume media, which is just like through like a little um recorded deo on social media or something where it's like this woman crying, this female cop crying because she wasn't served McDonald's properly or

something like remember remember that from like June. I was just like wait a minute, like we're really just like playing to like our I mean, but they think they're being like very calculating in the way that they're trying to like drum up sympathy in a way that is

like very transparent. And it was also like almost comical because it's like I don't care that this cop wasn't given McDonald's, Like they funk up my order all the time, Like this is but it's like seeing these things where they're like like even um, you know at Washington Square Park when they had like the them linking arms of the protesters or kneeling with the protesters, yet every other day they pepper pepper spraying like batoning, you know, and

and like kettling crowds. Like it's like, you know, come on, come on. It's like it's like it's like the cops who took a knee in one picture, but then they literally zoom in on the back and then they find that cop like literally beating protesters with with with a stick like the next day, it's like, you guys, this is so transparent and honestly, just like I don't know,

I don't know what the right word is, craving. It's just like so dumb to me that, like you think that this is something that we all fall and some people do. Unfortunately, they stunt during the day and then they show up as themselves when the cameras aren't there at night and when when they know when they know it's not going to be as easy to be um to manipulate everyone into thinking that they're like actually on their side but just doing their job, like no, fuck you.

And it's also the way that they're portrayed in TV and movies and how like the bad guy is always the person who's accused of a crime and the good guy is always like the police and the prosecutor. And it kind of shows this like it's contemporary, you know, pop culture really like displays that police officers are acting in this way that they know what they're doing. They're always extremely competent, they're always is like doing the right thing and fighting on the side of justice and that's

not the reality. Thank you for thank you for bringing up these consultants by because that's where that's the source of it all. And I did hear that on some shows. I won't say which, but like that that that that I have friends that right for some of these shows, and that there's going to be changes in the way that they tell their stories and as as some of them wrap up their series, that that they're going to respond to the moment. We'll see how well. But um,

it's true, it's on. They're on every network and they have been really since the since the you know, musty TV days, you know what I mean, Like it was we had NYPD Blue and all these shows, and it's just become such a not for nothing but um, you know, easy container to fill with narrative that they do it because it's very easy to be cyclical with it in terms of the storytelling, in terms of like the narrative, because you have your built in characters, that you have

your heroes and your villains for whatever it's worth, and um, it's it's it's it's crazy. And I've been really happy over the past several months to see that discussed and I'm certainly happy to see it. I don't think so honeyed so expertly now, Thank you, thank you hot damn. I have to say, I was like, I know, I've

got a lot of pressure on myself for that. I was like, okay, I have to get you did it and if if anything, if if anything else, that has to earn at least a ten dollar donation from you reader to Eliza Orleans dot com to help get Eliza in office as the Manhattan d A and make our city better. And I just want to say, as someone who's living in Los Angeles and just saw Nitthia Rahman elected,

you can make your city better. You can, and let's get talking about it and let's start making it happen and start making the change because telling you like it is real, it can happen. And you know the fact that he's being so complacent right now and not even campaigning or announcing a campaign. Let him be complacent. Let's get let's build that ground support, let's get it happening exactly. Thank you. Thank you. Max out for Eliza, as we say,

mats out for Eliza. It's not if you can't max out with your wallet, max out with your enthusiasm, your support, spread the message. I mean this, I mean the thing that distinguishes you from any other Canada rights not even right now, just overall, is that you are a public defender. We imagine that the impact that has to get a public defender in the District Attorney's office in Manhattan. Huge, huge, huge, huge huge, Eliza, thank you so much for coming on.

It's been our honor. Oh my god, no, it was so great to be here. Thank you for having me. This is so much fun. We love it. Okay, so, as you know readers, we do end every episode with a song. Bowen Yang. What are you thinking? I think you take the lead on this one. I can't think of anything. Okay, here we go. God, it's sing the song again, sat beside, make a choice, make a choice through the niline line. And if you want to hear that song sung, well go look up Celindion's version or something. Bye.

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