"Maren Got To Me" (w/ Maren Morris)

up over this for a while now. Ever since we got the confirmation, I have to ask the guests if she heard the episode or the snippet of us drafting a message in the d MS to send her, because it was sort of like getting ready to ask someone to prom you know what I mean. It was like, I just I want to do it right. You know. I'm not the kind of person who's like, hey, do you mind reading this email? I don't have to like have someone do a pass at it if it's coming from me. I want to say, I'm not, but I

am the kind of person who will read it. If I'm nervous about an email or something I'm saying, I will sort of like casually read it out loud. So I'm not like asking like, hey, can you can I run this by you? But I will sort of like do it with the assumption that people will confirm or deny that it's Babe, you gotta kill the editor in your brain. You so do, you so do, because otherwise, how are you gonna how are you gonna put clay on the table? How are you gonna make art? You know?

How are you going to even put clay on the table? First of all, First of all, I want to just close a loop from last week. My ear is fixed. Okay everyone, I know everyone's concerned. My ear is fixed. I had what's called the mirror and gottomy. I just explained it to our guests, and then she left the chap and I thought, okay, I've lost the guests. I've I've grossed the guests out. But it was merely a technical issue. However, I won't explain it to you, the readers.

You can just look up mirroring Gootomy and you can figure mirror economy. Was she and roomy Michelle? Yeah, so mirror and Gottomy played ROMI yeah, and they're talking about bringing it back and Miry and mirroring Gootomy. I am so glad that you're feeling better, especially because it's um you know where I look. We we we we We had a mission beginning of this year to bring more musicians on the podcast because let's let's face it, we love music here and we're popping the fuck off in

terms of succeeding in that. Okay, I would say, so, Matt, do you remember seeing this person in concert? Do I remember seeing this person in concert? I literally we went with the this is the thing about a Marion Morris show. All different people are there. You got your country fans, and the gays were out. Do you remember when we saw Colton Haynes and I was like, that's Colton Haynes

was there and he was good and sweet boys. And I was looking around and I was like, Bowery Ballroom is out for Marion Morris, and the gays are wearing their jackets. You know, the gays put on their good jackets for the Marion morrishow. The gays put on their good jackets for the Marion Moore show. Ryan Hurd had long hair at the time. Remember the chemistry, but I remember the chemistry go, those two must there must be something going on between in those just like, let me

tell you something. That's two people, that's gonna get married, and our guest was wearing pre like before it was cool pre let's say her name, Ariana Grande, wore an oversized hoodie and made it look fucking cheek. It was like Heather gray. It was like it was really really it was black. It was black. Well, I'm famously color blind. I don't think I think it was Heather gray. Is this like a Mandela effect thing like bearn Stein bears,

bearn Stain bears, Like it's two different realities. Remember, it's literally the dress. It's it's black and gold or whatever the dress was. Remember the dress. Oh my god, my god. But anyway, I was with you during the dress. Yeah, and I remember I saw that I saw the dress as one thing and you saw the dress as another thing. And that's when we really knew the dress was gonna pop off. It was gonna pop off, and it did, and it did. We can't tell we cannot talk about

the dress. We can we still we cannot talk about the dress while the guest is here, because we could just keep going about the dress. And the thing about our guest is truly in the middle of sort of release of a lifetime because this new album Humble Quest is so great and you're not going to believe this, like this podcast, it's critically acclaimed. Okay, Pitchfork is gagging, all the girls are gagging. I mean, it's just so good.

And I've been a fan since obviously the album Hero and I think I remember I remember she came to SNL. Were you there when she was at SNL that I was not working here at the time, but I remember when she was the musical guest. I was like, I gotta tune in and iconic and we talked about eighties mercendies on this show all the time, about how it

was a watershread moment. But just to sort of run through the credits, if you're living under a rock, I mean just Grammy winner five times c M A winner, five times a c M winner, I mean just an incredible, incredible not just country music, crossover artist. There's R and B influences in her music, there's pop also, a member of the High Women. I mean, this is just like truly a gaft for lost pljuris this. I don't think that there's anyone better at TBH TVH, no one better.

We're so excited. Chiefs here, please welcome. Oh my gosh, I wanted to chime in so many times in your plea I cannot. I did not know that you guys were at the Bowery show. It was amazing because I distinctly remember that was my first real time to headline a New York City show because that was the Hero tour and we were in clubs, So doing the Bowery I remember for the first time really getting to see my crowd because I think that was one of the first shows of the tour, so I didn't know what

my crowd looked like yet. I had only done you know, radio and streaming, so doing live performances as a different model, and so getting to see like you guys were in that you were like the guinea pigs. You're in the gas of the tour, Marin. But I remember there was this like gay guy in the crowd. Maybe it was one of you. Um, some guy had perfectly choreographed an entire routine to my song how It's Done, Every word had emotion to go with it. I was just gagged you.

You probably didn't even know you were making music that could have choreo attached. I didn't know. I truly didn't at that point. It was it was like and also I was like blown awaite because the thing is like, when you listen to your album, there's obviously so much like character in your voice, and you have such a

You're such an incredible storyteller. I didn't know you had all these runs, like the dexterity in your voice, Like we were looking at each other like bitches singing down like you really were like killing the vocals, Like not that I didn't know that, but like your live singing is insane. Thank you. I that's such a huge comp went I. It's just tripping me out before even coming onto this show because I I'm a fan of both

of y'all's. But Matt, like I have followed you years ago because I remember it was I don't know if it's still up, but you did this parody of the Lover track list? Did you take it down to down? But just because you know, it's like you can only parody someone that well when you love them you have

a deep, like absolutely deep respect for their craft. But Matt, I think you might actually be a songwriter because the one that I showed Ryan we were on vacation and you made this whole track list up in your mind. I think maybe before the album was actually out, but it was the one where you're like, whoa bit do you see that? Yeah? That was actually the opening track of my lover parody albums. I am going to put it back up because people did get into my d M s and they were like, where did it go?

You have to put it back up. This is how I it's your greatest hits. I mean, I want to have access to them at all points. But no, that was when I started following you because I was telling Ryan. I was like, this guy made an entire fake track list and his singing hooks that could I mean, I don't know if I can say it, but if I'm quoting you, but you can. I think the hardest we

both laughed like all year was that. But I would be oh my god, I would be honored if someone went out of their way to do an entire parody of my album track list. I mean it was brilliant as just a songwriter myself who was like in the public eye. I mean, oh my gosh, if someone did that good of I mean I wouldn't even call it a read, but I mean it was. It was just perfection and your your melodies were just I mean, that's

very kind. I'm partial to gay rights because I mean, Marin, are you are you do you have phono graphic memory or do you do you do you kind of like have this like ear for just any little sound that you can replicate. Well, I've also listened to his version of this track list many times. It's not phono graphic. But is that the one featuring and dowd? Oh? God? Okay, yeah, sorry too. I'm a fan girling on that. Is it sort of iconic that we get you on this podcast

and you talk about my music? Yes? But I refused, I refused to continue. All right, sorry, I'll stop where I'm done germing. But it was just, oh my god, what a great what a great thing. That's taste. I have to say, like, I'm obviously a fan of all your albums, but this album Humble Quest like bone and I have been um listening to it and I just think, like lyrically, especially this is like your best i mean background music. When I heard it, I was like, this,

to me, is the best song you've ever written? Like that, that's like, how do you feel in terms of like as a songwriter looking at your own work, because I also I also sense in your lyrics that you're you're definitely a self critic and hard on yourself, especially in like you know, I can't love you anymore in humble quests, like I can tell that you are someone that's self critical. How are you feeling about like what you've done here?

I think it's the only way I can like stomach doing such a self indulgent job is especially through the country storytelling is just too poke holes in the balloon and just laugh because it's just I mean, the last two years have been tough for everybody but everything, especially in the touring industry, which is going to be fractured

for a long time and its rebuilding. But I mean, it was just going on such a toxic path downward and we were all so addicted to it and just kind of getting used to it always looking like that. And now I think the only way I could have written this album is out of just having this sense of levity and knowing that you're not in control of anything. I can't believe you thought you were, Um, you're not that cool. Take it down a notch. I think like it was just humbling all around to be like, I

can't tour. I had, you know, my son at the very beginning of COVID, I had you know, an unplanned, you know, emergency C section. There was there's all these things that were out of my grip, and you know, I was like, God, I'm going to kill myself if I keep taking it this seriously. It's just not good for me. I don't think it's breeding the best art, the best lyrics, the best honesty for me, and I'm

kind of becoming a pill to be around. So I think just all of it made me be like, you know what, I'm lucky to get to do this for a living and have people that buy tickets to my shows and listen to the records. But I cannot do this and treat myself the way I have been any

longer if I want to have any longevity here. And so it just made me loosen my grip and start to laugh at things and just not take it so seriously in a time where everything was so serious and um yeah, I think it allowed me to maybe access even more vulnerable parts of me to write on a

page that's really apparent. I think I think I've heard you say with this album that because touring wasn't like a prospect, you weren't sort of beholding to this deadline in terms of songwriting, and so was it was this journey that you had with not having touring as this like thing in your future being terrifying, scary, throwing everything into question about, you know, the way you work, that eventually became something kind of liberating, and that you were like, well,

I can actually write from a place of like not worrying about when I get to perform this or how I do it or like was that was was as it fair to say that that's like the arc of that. Yeah, it was kind of the first time in a very long time I didn't have a deadline to get anything turned in. No one did. And I remember the first

few months of people starting to write via zoom. I mean, my husband was doing it, and it just looked so depressing to try to write a song through this screen and to not be able to connect with people on a vibrational level. I mean, just being in the room with someone trying to create sound is just so hard to do through a two dimensional screen. And so yeah, for the first six months of Quarantine, I was like, what is the point, Like if we can't play these songs,

is outlive? Like does the world really need another song written today? M Yeah, I think just eventually that bitterness wore away and I was like, actually maybe I should give you know, give it a go, because there's no there's no pressure once and it was almost like when I've made my first record, it was like you kind of like the old saying is you have your whole life to make your first record, and you have five minutes to make your second one because there's just no

expectation on you in that first record. It's like you're just like shooting in the dark and you have no nothing to live up to yet there's no bar set, so it's really freeing. And yeah, I think that it was. This was a lot more fun to make then I would say my last record, just even though I love girl and like the Bones ended up becoming this crazy thing that none of us could have first seen. Um, I don't think mentally I was in like the most

healthy space just touring constantly and making that record. But um, you hear how people say that about like when they're like when they're having a really huge moment, you do here. I remember Kelly Clarkson. I'm a huge Kelly Clarksonson, and I'm gonna ask about Second Wind. But like she talks a lot about how when she was at her apex like her I guess imperial phase pop stardom was when she was like I felt she was going to die

every day. You know. It's it's really hard to manage that expectation, your own happiness, your schedule, and so it must be kind of cool to have that. Literally nature and the universe say you're slowing down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think it just ended up breeding better art. And I'm not even just talking about myself. I mean I'm biased because I wrote it, but my friends that put records out during this time, I think it was their best work because I don't know, it's just it.

Kind of the silver lining of COVID was that, at least on a creative level, I mean, we were just allowed to breathe for a second and not tie our value or are worth to the applause and flowers that we get like like that, that kind of immediate hit of attention that we all crave and desire and get addicted to. We didn't have that so it really was like do you love this? Do you love this enough to keep doing it? And some of us said no, and some of us you know, said yes and stuck

in the ring. And I think that a lot of my friends put out my favorite works of theirs during this time. Do you mind asking who check out? So rust and Kelly is one of them. His second record was so I mean, both records are incredible, but and also like, I don't know her, but I'm obsessed, and it brought me and a lot of people out of our COVID. Doldrums was like that dualipa future nostal director. I always especially now looking back, you really realize how

important that album was. Yeah, not that she made it during the pandemic, but she was brave enough to like put it out during such an uncertain time and make like spin gold out of it just such a crazy, chaotic window, and it ended up becoming one of her biggest records and you know, most hits of her career. And it was just such a piece of It's just such a sliver of sunlight and in all of our world. That was one of my favorites of the last couple of years. I mean, just things that kept me inspired

to to get back in the writing room. Honestly, yeah, I kind of have this jealousy over you or anyone keying into a way of working and writing without a deadline, because I don't know if Matt you agree with agree with this, but if I don't have a deadline, it's it's kind of not going to get done. I don't know.

It's harder, it's hard, it's harder, and so and so I think maybe part of it is like approaching it differently and going, well, this is actually the best case scenario in some way, like where I get to just do ever I want, rather than be like overwhelmed daunted by this concept of well, you're not like beholden to any timeline, so you get to like be as indecisive and like, like, if if it brings out like the worst creative instincts in you in terms of being indecisive,

then like that's what you have to overcome. But if you're already like in the pocket creatively, and this is not just that you've always that, like you don't have moments of like you know, like figuring stuff out as you go, But like I think that just speaks to you in your process that you get to just see that in a very clear way to go, I don't have a deadline. This means I can actually kind of

right from a liberated place. Yeah, and listen, I I'm I kind of live in both worlds because I do need structure, because I'm not a very self motivated person. If i just have all the time in the world to write an album or a song, even like, I do need some structure, like I would be incredibly And I was a failure at home schooling like in my senior year of high school because I just didn't even finish it because it was all online. I was like, I'll get I'll get to it next week, and I

never did. So yeah, I ended up having to go to the three week high school with all the like pregnant girls. So that's that was I felt like such about us. I finished high school in three weeks with all the with all the knocked up girls. But yeah,

I do need some structure. Yeah, totally totally. But but I mean I think that what COVID, in just those two years of adapting taught all of us is that it was extremely imbalanced where it was like, you know, live to work, Live to Work, Live to Work, Yeah, yeah, totally.

What I really really like about this album too is it's like because because especially following Girl and like you know, the middle, which is like like a psycho pop song that was like everywhere, it's we have the hum Quest album now, and you still make us feel like we're listening to you in a bar, you know what I mean, Like this could be an album that like really reads with like thirty people in a bar, like and everyone you know, like applause after each song, like I'll sip

it between our drinks, you know what I mean. It feels like it's an album for that atmosphere too. Not to say it couldn't be played in arenas which humble Quest to is happening, which is so exciting, but like it feels intimate and also what I love is it's

it's still. And what I love about your writing is the humor, like tall guys like truly dragging the short King phenomenon, and I know, but it's just so funny and like, I don't know, you're That's something that I think makes you quintessentially country to like is the humor, And I don't know, is that important. Not until I put the record out, I learned what a short King was. I put Tall Guys out. It got released because the

record was out at midnight. And then some tweet I actually put it on instance, and it made me laugh so hard. But it was some guy that was talking about tall guys and it just said Marion Morris really said fuck short Kings. And I was like, is that is that its own phenomenon? Like I guess short Kings are pop having a real moment right now, but it's short Kings Spring, and so it's time bound. It's like and it implies it's gonna end soon, like no Shave November,

like it's ex seasonal, it's seasonal short Kings. It's usual short Kings. Tall tall guys are are are evergreen, you know, yeah, because they're always going to be able to reach the top shelf. That's a good line maybe for the New York Show is like short King Spring, but tall guys are evergreen. There you go, you're gonna writer co writer. Um.

I agree with Matt. There's that there's that a reverence there and like and it's interesting that you were you were saying earlier that like you are kind of you know, not that you set out to do this, but like that you're you're going to poking holes and like the and the balloon of it all of country music, because I think I think Circles Around This Town is one of my favorite songs about like the process, like you're

writing anyone's writing process. I don't think that gets sung like a none of people sing about their writing process. And I know that sounds meta, but there's this other metal layer with background music, where you're like, this is what I aspire my music to be, is to like be like either it's played in the background or it works in the foreground of something like that takes a lot of confidence, I think as a songwriter to go I'm actually very cool with my songs being played like

as an undertone or ambiently. Yeah, and that song, well background music specifically because my husband and I are both songwriters and that's how we met, you know, nine years ago in Nashville. We were paired together on a co write.

But you know, even though the song is very you know, honest and it's a love song, it's talking about you know, us being has been someday like whether that is going to be true or not like we love to joke with each other, especially in the last few years, we're like, oh my god, like these few number ones we've had under our belt, what if that's it? And what if

it's just us for the rest of this life. And I just decided to spin it into a love song with background music because I was like, I don't care. I don't care if you get another number one song, or you get this nomination or I get to go do this or what have you. It's like, I just don't think it adds any more specialness or value to our relationships as you know, friends, and we don't have a son now, it's like it just doesn't it's not as valuable to put our worth and things like that.

But we do love to joke like, oh yeah, when I'm like playing in the casinos and I'm ninety years old and you have to like wheel me off stage because I'm never going to retire like someday, like that might actually be a very real concept. And then even further than that, when we're both dead, like will these songs still be played? Like maybe that's our legacy is not like our memories or even our kids kids. It's like the work that we put in. Was it was

it special? Was it timeless? Will it be played in a hundred years if you just don't know? It's so specific and special and just the line not everybody gets to leave a souvenir like it's it's like acknowledging each other and like what you guys get to do together, And it's really it's specific to you guys, but it's

it's like romantic and evocative for everyone. And when I heard that song, I remember it came out before the album, and I just played it again and again because I was like, I mean, I've always been like such an admirer of your writing, but this was just like it was it was. It's so great. It really it really it really moves me. Thank you. Yeah, I love it for this thing just another just like sweet like and whatever.

This is my like literal read on it. It's like about distance and um and yet still feeling this like closeness, this proximity in spite of that, Like I don't know these are I I can't think of a lot of other songs that like touch on these things in the same like poetic sense that you kind of get to voke out of them like it's really, I just it's such a great album and like we're I think I think we're just like gonna keep fawning over your for a little bit longer, but like it's just so good.

Well rate hit rate with exposing Marion Morris to people is like a hundreds always. Jill Kim Booster is a very close friend of ours. He's a comedian and we were playing um we were driving back from Palm Springs and I played him hero and he by the end was a stand like and our friend, our friend Sudi just reached out to us and was to texting me. I was like, I love Marion Morris. I was like, where have you been? And then I realized, like, you know, it's just I don't know. I feel like as more

people hear it, and already so many have. Obviously that thing that you said is going to be true with that music last because it well, thank you. I I'm always and it's not false humility, I think because country music in so many ways, and you know, I've been able to tour, you know, all over the States, all over the world, South America, Europe, what have you been In a lot of ways country music is still very

niche to people. So it doesn't shock me that you're saying that someone was like probably not going to listen to this on their own accord. You had to be the one to tell them no, actually go check it out. And then they do. And it's like, I, you know, having done songs like the Middle and you know, been in the High Women, and you know, just having you know, my own solo success, I feel like just my music has always been genre lists, even though I do think

it sits in country music comfortably. I think that I'm happy to be the gateway drop for anyone that would turn their nose up at country music to be like, wait a second, actually might might like this. It's such a huge compliment because it transcends genre lines in such

a powerful way, which it should. Yeah, And another thing about you, which I think is really really cool and really important is you are sort of like a huge voice for gender and racial equity in country music and at large, like and I just think that like you stepping out especially like sort of as you know, I think probably one of the music women in country music

that gets played on the radio the most. And I know I've heard a lot of people speaking out about like you need to play women on country music like etcetera. And you are played and for you to be like people need to be listening to Mickey Guyton, like people need to be listening to all these people. And then to see her embrace like I was bummed to see her lose the Grammy a couple of weeks ago, but like, you know, it's just really cool to see and I

think that's it's it's important. And I wonder that must have been, Like maybe it wasn't difficult for you to come out and say that. Well, I don't. I don't know if everyone This is a very hard industry, and I feel like the music business is a lot of times more business than music, and not everyone gets to sign up for this and say I'm going to also

be this activist. But I don't think it's activism. I think it's even if you are played and you're one of the few that got chosen to be played on the radio, like sticking your neck out and not counting your dollars is how I'd like to go out, Like I just I don't know, I don't. It's so it's so finite, isn't it, Like you don't know how much time you get here. You don't know. We call it like a ten year town. Maybe I get like a

ten year run of doing this, who knows. But I'm gonna pretend like this could all be burnt to the ground in a year, and maybe I'll be the one with the matches. But I feel like it's just so stupid to like keep your mouth out about things that just visibly make you uncomfortable, like physically make you ill,

just like say something. So it's my job as the person with the platform to be like, I have to make this a safer environment for everybody, like not just women, like people of color, LGBTQ, like all all perspectives to feel like they can be housed here and be safe for two hours. That's like, that's just like push pull of like being specifically. I'm sure you write songs in a way that is meant to relate to other people's experiences, but then it's also it should be personal. It has

to be personal. Um, And this is just something that a lot of artists do. But I think especially in country where you kind of it seems for whatever reason more conscious that you go. Let me really like put a mold on like how I want um my music

to be received. Let me really be specific, and yet so on some level universal with so many things, I feel like, you know, I always always not to generalize, but I always end up liking country musicians in the way that they work because because because there is this like super structure for better for worse in terms of like how country music is run, in terms of like the songwriting, and in terms of like who gets you know,

paired together or whatever. You know, I feel like there's something nice about that, and yet there's also something that you kind of have to destabilized just a little bit in order to make it feel like fresh and new or different. Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, I know totally. And I was just thinking, like in my genre that I am at home in, I look at, you know, it's kind of already beating the odds to to get

any radio play or anything. Is always kind of attached to me also being a female, like oh, she broke this record, but she's only female to have done it, like she's not in the the echelon the boys. But but then I look at like the things that I get to do because I have made my way of

thinking known. It's like like doing The High Woman, like being one of the few like country Bumpkins that gets to do SNL as a remusical guest, Like that was such a moment, Like working with like John Mayer and Elton John and like Taylor and like just all of the things I've gotten to do Z Like it's it's just been crazy, like the things that I get asked to be a part of, not just because like I'm country as a genre of it, because like maybe they heard a song of mine or my album, but they

also like saw me give an interview and Playboy. There's just these things that are kind of outside of the scope that you know, I've taken risks on and even like doing not that this is but like but even getting asked to do this and like this and why would you want to It's like such an amazing like

y'all's conversations on here so elevated and so funny. And I had so many people reach out to me when you guys like I saw your DM Matt, but it was but I think it was before the episode aired, maybe, but I had so many people like the night my album came out or maybe was the next night saying last cultureristas they talk about constructing their d M to and I was like, well, I immediately responded, But the

thing is, like, I don't know. I I think especially at the time when you when you did d M ME after the Taylor thing, I was like, I literally was shook because you you really were in my like top rotation, like ever since I found you, Like you

really are one of my favorites. And then I told everybody, and then what the second everyone listened to your album, like all my friends wanted to go to your show, and then we did and had the best time, and we're bigger fans Ben, So just know that, like you've impacted us immeasurably in terms of us enjoying your music and like what you do and how you do it.

So I just can't say enough. We want to ask you the question, Isn't that right, bo, It's that's a question, Okay, We want to ask it, Marin, What is the culture that made you say culture is for me? This is a formative piece of pop culture. It could be a movie, a TV show, an album, or it could be like the town you grew up in. It could be like the school you went to it can be. It's a pretty broad with broad answers. It's it's yeah, it's really okay.

There's a few, but I feel like, Um, the movie Steel Magnolia's was the movie because my mom's a hairdresser, and oh my god, so I grew I basically like my sister and I. We grew up in hersal on and we would get to like style the mannequin heads, and you know, that was my first real job, was like being a receptionist for her salon. But um, watching the movie Steel Magnolia's as a kid, I only knew Dolly Parton as Truvy. I didn't know she was Dolly Parton,

the country music star. I just thought she was an actress. And then through a movie about southern hair and diabetes, Um, I found Dolly Parton and her golden light of songwriting and feminism and just all the things that she has done over the last thirty forty years. Um, writing the most beautiful songs in history, but also such a diversified human like she has, she has a theme park. What else can say that? No? What? So I just was I think that was what made me think, Okay, how

country music is fucking cool. Yeah, if they have her at the at the Helm. And then also, not that I've done any movies or anything like that, but I was like, she got so much ship in the seventies for going pop, crossing it over. Yes. Yeah, And there's this amazing, very passive aggressive interview with Barbara Walters that's iconic with Dolly. Barbara Walters did passive aggressive like no

one else sexually. A culture number hundred three? Is that to the interview you're talking about, Dolly's clearly like a little uncomfortable, a little annoyed throughout the whole thing. It's kind of like it's so poised, so poised, sweetly laughing off like all these condescending fucking questions. And then and that was what was the answer that you were going to talk about? Well, I mean I can't remember specifically what Barbara asks her, but it was just like talking

bringing country to like a like a wider audience basically, right. Yeah, She's like, what do you think about like the people the ends of your own genre that you know made you like, are you biting the hand that feeds you by going pop? And she was like, I'm always going to be country music. Dolly is country, but I want to bring Dolly to the world. And I was just floored.

And I still go back and watch that every few months because I feel like, in my own way and not in any way, shape or form, comparing myself to Dolly, but having you know, worked with her and also just come up in this genre and have done many different kinds of projects over the years. I just always think about, I'm just trying to bring me to the world, like I don't I'm not beholden to I'm not going to

be shackled to anything against my will. I'm gonna stay have a foot here because I love it and I respect it and it made me the songwriter I am today. But I'm I'm not going to be beholden to it, like it's only going to cap my creativity, my my honesty, my worth, And so yeah, I think that's what like

that movie. Weirdly still, Magnolia has made me just I mean, for its iconic for hundreds of reasons and Shirley McClean olympiadaccus alone I but yeah, it kind of opened me up to country music in a way that I I didn't find it just through music. I found it through this this film from the eighties. Yeah, it's really really iconic. A drink your due Shelby of course, a line for the history of time. It's just so funny you say this. I watched nine to five on the plane last night.

Oh this was meant to be. I had never seen it before. But I do this other podcast for HBO Max and we have we're talking about nine to five and I had never seen it, and I watched it and she really is like she's great on screen. Oh yeah, I And the my favorite thing and it's so her is the way that she wrote the song nine to five for that film, And I can't believe it didn't win the Oscar Like that song not win, but it

was nominated. But the reason I don't know if it was like the typewriter or it was like her acrylic nails. She was like doing this one day in her trailer where she was like and still with the kitten, and like she did it with her freaking fake nails. Wrote a song that's so so legendary. Is there is there like a legend that like, um, I think when they were when they were bringing into Broadway or something, she

like went to New York flew to New York. I thought that she had to like righte the entire show and present the entire show, like all the songs in

the show to the producers the next day. So she stayed up and wrote basically the entire show for the musical version of Mind to Five, and then showed up the next day and like the producers were like floor that she brought like a completed score, a full score, all the songs, all the written, all the lyrics basically written out in the music arranged, and they're like, you didn't have to do all that, like from the jump,

you know, like that's just Dolly. Even the film nine to five she says, like in one of her interviews that's older. She talks about showing up day one on set with like Jane Fonda, Lily Tomlin. She had never been in a film before, so Dolly thought it was customary to just learn the entire script, not just her lines. She literally knew every person in the film's lines, including her own, and they were like, oh no, no, you just need to know yours for just in case if

someone needs help. One very harassment, Yeah it does. Yeah, just overachiever, Like there's something like I have to go back to this all the time, like it's about the work and not to be like not not even like a capitalist sense, but in the sense of like you should be you should like there should be a relationship with the work that you feel like you're enjoying it, that there's like a craftsmanship in it, you know that, like you're getting in there and like getting your hands dirty.

I'm sure you relate to this on some level with songwriting. I mean, Matt, I relate to this in terms of like writing like anything MENI or anything um in that vein. But it's like Dolly always reminds me of that. Always It's always Dolly. Then I'm like in a field that I have nothing to do with in music, but I can look to and go wow, that is like aspirational in so many ways. Yeah, what was the experience of meeting her, Like, I'm sure she adores you, like and

what's what's your what's the relationship there? And what was it like meeting her? I mean, I will say she was extremely punctual, like she was always on time. So the High Women. The High Woman and I were playing Newport Folk Festival in twenty nineteen, and the High Women are myself, Brandy Carlyle, Natalie Hemby and Amanda Shires. And

I had never played Newport Folk Festival. But it's like this legendary folk festival where you know, Bob Dylan went electric and you know, Chris Christofferson and Johnny Cash met backstage. It's just and Joni Mitchell played, and James Taylor. It's just like a really iconic festival. And Dolly, in all of her decades of just being an icon, had never played it. And so a surprise, the High Women were going to be closing out the festival. And it's sunset

on Sunday, last day the festival. You're overlooking like the harbor and we get to introduce Dolly and the place just went ape shit. I mean, she came out in this yellow of course, it's like archival umnody suit that has like wagon wheels all over it. I think from

her days of working with like Porter Wagner. And she's so tiny, but we had done rehearsals with her in Nashville the week prior, so just like it still gives me chills, but we were working and rehearsing with her at our Cia Studios um in studio A that room and it's the big room, and that's where she recorded

I Will Always Love You and Joelene. And I don't think if I recall what she said, she said she had not been back in that room since she recorded those songs, So like rehearsing with her in that room was just I mean, it could all in tomorrow and I'll be able to say that I was in the room with her that day. But she's just so lovely she I mean, she definitely like like the swear word I love. I love when I find out that someone

is a secret it. Yeah, I mean she she's just such a like I don't know, but it's one of those people, whether they truly remember you or not, they made you feel like they did. And so I don't even care to know if she did or not. I was like, she makes you feel so special, and she lives up to such an impossibly high reputation and expectation

and she exceeds it. So I just there aren't enough glowing things I could say about her, But she's she's dolly not to get to like existential, But there is something so crazy about like you being in that room with her and her having some like hugely impastful effect on your life that you would end up in that room.

Does that make sense? Like kind of thing back looking back, like like she's kind of that you know, she's part of the reason why you are there with her, that she's she's part of the reason why you do what you do. Is that fair to say that, like part of your artistry as a country musician has is very tied to like the way you admired her growing up. Oh yeah, I mean just I can't step for step like model my career after somebody's, but if I had to,

it would be her. And you know, to this day, I mean in such I mean it's still very male dominated, you know, Nashville country music, but in a time where it was especially taboo to even talk about it, she was charming and disarming her way through these like corporate suits and making everyone love her. Like I'm sorry, I think I have a pretty good sense of humor. I cannot be as funny or quick as her. Um, it's

like it's not it's not my superpower. But yeah, it's just crazy to to kind of have all these you know, ends tied up for me and like getting that chance with her and just I don't know, like for a few hours getting to soak her in. It was just something that like I don't think you have six year old me watching Steeve Magnolias would have ever fathomed, but is one for the books. I will say, I am excited for your theme park, though, I'm excited for your

like the bones Hunted house. Like, wait, what was your surgery called? It was called me what it was like? Maren got to me, that's actually shirt. Actually Maren got to me, is but like you could be selling like a Cola Cola on a Christmas Day? Wait? Can I ask about that? Is that a thing? Is Coca Cola on a Christmas Day? A thing? Because I had never heard it felt so vivid? Yeah, But one was like, well, well no, I remember, like I was. It was Christmas.

It was Christmas Day, and I think I went to Maren's Instagram and she posted a picture like under a Christmas tree holding like a green can of coke, which was like the sugar real sugar, and she's like a Coca Cola on a Christmas Day And I was like, well, now I want to fucking Coca Cola. We were influenced. I was like, really influenced. I have written so many things and songs that I have to like live with You,

live with the Coca Cola on a Christmas Day. That literally was just like me and my co writers trying to think of a bunch of alliteration, like I mean, I mean, it's like, oh, you give your on Halloween, you give yourself a swirly Like it wasn't like quite that intense. But the other one was like eighties Mercedes. Everyone asked me like, did you finally go buy one? And I was like, no, I didn't, but I mean

some day I will. If I end up being like rich enough of to be like the j Leno of car collectors or Jerry Seinfeld, I'll get one, like a nice one that i'll soup up. But totally eighties Mercedes is your So Dolly Parton's Dollywood has Thunderhead as like an iconic wooden roll cluster, Yours is eighties Mercedes. It's very clear you're branding the theme park already. I hope, Oh my god, you're helping me and Arlington. Arlington needs a theme park because I don't know how six Flags

is doing. Oh I don't know how six Flags over Texas is doing. We need Mary Morris to the theme park. No, but I've been to six Flags like all over. I was like a roller coaster kid growing up, Like I love theme parks, Like it's like very much my thing. Are you laughing at me? Drag me? But like I just heard, you know, six Flags is not exactly thriving.

So I'm just saying, sure, Maren Gottomy, I just have to quickly tell you in person, quote unquote that, um, the interval between Haunted Get like there's there's something about like Get like that interval is like demonically amazing, like something so like powerful and the way that like your voice goes from that note to the other note and it immediately like lights up my fucking yeah into the chorus,

it explodes you into the course. And I don't know, it's just I remember, and this is not not not to bring the mood down, but I remember Election day. I was like, okay, here we go, today's the day. And I was blasting hero and specifically eighties Mercedes. I was like, all right, like let's like get pumped blasting eighties Mercedes. And then of course the night turned out

the way it did. But I was just like, I remember one of the memories I have of that night is blasting eighties Mercedes on my way to like watch the returns come in, and then um, it's it's an emotional I have an emotional tie to that song in a way that is very specific to me, and I will always it started and then lost to the second second. Okay, wait quickly before I asked you about housewives and then we do I don't think so honey, Oh my god, yes, okay,

second wind you right? And this is like when you were like songwriting pretty much down and then Kelly Clarkson wants it. How the fund do you feel at that point? Oh, oh my god. I was just clawing at the bit to get anybody to record my songs. So when they said that Kelly had even heard it, had reached her ear drums, I was like, that was so rare for a Nashville songwriter to gonna have a pop star hearing

nobody's songs. And uh, I mean even even and I love her even though it ended up as a bonus track, I will forever get to say that she recorded my song and then like I've met her since and she has said like she has. I love her and I want to go on her show and I want us to like sing Second Win together. Oh you really? That would be really good. Yeah, she's she's amazing and she's another like Texas Homesound queen of mine. But yeah, I

mean no, I was just floored. And the thing about Kelly Clarkson is you know she's not going to suck it up. She's gonna elevate it. There's some I will say, she's did that piece by piece for remix album, and I think the Second Win it's a cheek codes remix. Have you heard it? I probably have at one point, but not a few years. Give it, give it another encounts her Okay, but it's it's it's a solid I think it's the best red its on that sort of release.

But it's like that's when I knew. I was. That's that's why the middle didn't surprise me, not because I was like, oh, this works like the songwriting here, the melodies here work perfectually with like an electro pop song. I was just like, I'm gonna go listen to it after this, I need to refresh. Okay, it's all it's excellent anyway, Wait, but you were saying Real Housewives because I was just listening to your garcell episode, who I loved. So I was asked to guest host Jimmy Kimmel last

summer also love. Yeah, okay, but garcel was unavailable that day and we were I didn't realize like with those late night shows, they book people up to sometimes the day and like Kyle Kyle was unavailable, Garcella was unavailable. They were all out of town, and I was like, Sutton better be available because you didn't want to have Erica come in there. No, and I have so many I have so many Housewives stories and I've been on like Watch What Happens Live, which also you did an

amazing job, Matt. We haven't talked about this. Matt was so that was like pinnacle right there that it was the peak. And I was on with um Karen Huger, which was like iconic for me, and she's so nice. And speaking of tall guys, I met Andy Cohen and he goes, you're so tall. He didn't realize how I was going to be tall. I was. I was like, did you think I was going to be a twink?

And he just gave me a hug. I mean, I don't know, but no, I and you always it's so lucky when you get on with someone that you actually want to talk to. Who did you? Who are you on with? So I've done it a handful of times. The second time was Zoom and that was with three and she was lovely. The first time was with was in person and this was when my Girl album came out. But that was with Teddy and I need to get on there. But I met Kyle and her whole family.

They came to my show and Aspen last ball at this and she's like, so she's as short as me, She's like five one. I feel like, so beautiful and her whole family. Like meeting Mauricio after ten years of watching this man on this show, I was just living and my whole band they were like my guitar player was talking to Mauricio and he was like talking about real estate and has no idea who Mauricio is. God, He's like, oh my god, that guy is so nice. I was just asking him like does he ever sell

houses in Nashville? And I was like it was like Ben, He's he's like a multimillionaire, Like he doesn't do real estate, like he owns a huge real estate like multi really like multi continental firm. Like he literally thought he just sold houses. He was like, he sells like mansions and hotels. But anyhow, I'm playing stage Coach next week in Palm Springs, and I'm gonna hang out at Kyle's house the night before.

Maybe we need like a like a recap episode of Lost Culture Rista's where I tell you that we actually, I literally I need you might need to come back and tell you're playing Stagecoach. Wait is and what date? What dates? Is that in Palm Springs? So not this Friday, but next Friday. My friend a Sports is like a huge country fan, huge fan of yours, and he would die. I might have to say we might we might have to go out there, tell him to go. It's where

Coachella is. It's the same grounds, but it's the week after Coachella, so we get all the dust. Oh my god, obsessed? So wait, what what do you what do you think of the trailer for Beverly Hills. I mean it looks insane, like I just and I get so invested and I don't know how much of it is real. But just

after talking to Kyle at the Aspen thing. It was like the week they were shooting the reunion, like she hadn't shot it yet, and I was so floored that she is willing to talk to me about any of this stuff for like forty minutes, and I was like,

what Erica, Like, what is she going to do? And I was so I was like three glasses of rose and talking to Kyle after my show, and I was like, honestly, maybe Erica should do like a charity show in l A where she just brings all of her clothing and just auctions it off and uses that money to give to the victims. She just doesn't want to do like that.

Kyle was like, that has never occurred to anybody, how her, because the ethos she's like putting out there is that it's like I don't know if it's editing in the trailer, but it's like I don't give a funk about anyone but me, Like I think that like sums it up.

I think she's being herself totally, but like, like that's that that there's a darkness there if we can all agree, like, oh you really, And she's like Matt and I have said, like she's just committed to I'm sorry, like she's committed to Monster, you know, like that Sulla super villain, the Marvel the like origin story that we're getting for for Erica.

Marvel could never like like like whatever's happening with Scarlett Witch and Marvel with Elizabeth Olsen, it's not even touching what is going on with Like we're going to be running in the streets from Erica. Jane's suitting lasers out of her eyes in l A I can I can feel it. It's like she is she is getting to the point where she because even the games, even the Gates have like thrown her Army of Gaze have like

thrown down their weapons. Like there no one's on board with this anymore except like her and I guess Mikey is Mikey even on payroll still who knows? We haven't seen in Is it going to be like the Searcy thing where it's just like she ends up completely like that just everyone's like, oh no, not with that crazy no. And then she if if it is Searcy, then she she blows up everybody in one place that like the trial or whatever. Um. Yes, Sutton realized Sutton realizes the

doors were all locked. She's not coming, She's got shown up. She has no intentions of comn she knows what's going on. What other franchises do you watch? Are you like a Bravo superfan? Are you Beverly Hills? I mean, I've watched New York. I feel like I only have the bandwidth, an emotional bandwidth, to deal with Real Housewives at Beverly Hills, which from season one two now it has consistently been great television. Like there's just not a dud. I mean,

even the ones that weren't that good, we're still really good. Yea. Even the Carlton season, it was like, I'll watch it still. It was so funny on the reunion when they brought up Carlton and Garcela was like, who is Carlton? And yeah, my favorite, my favorite line of Carlton's is when Kyle gives her like a necklace and she's like, I gave you a necklace, Carlton, how can I not like you? And she's like it's in water, like she's cleansing the necklace.

Oh my god. Honestly, in many ways, Beverly Hills was a song of ice and fire between Kyle and a Lisa Vanderpump and I guess sort of fire one over Ice there, but now really Erica is representing Ice. What what is your read on Renna? Like, what's your type of Sean Rena? I mean, I feel like it's got

to be just her amplifying a personality. I don't know if you were yeah, like, I don't know, if you were just on your couch watching Netflix and drinking with her on a Friday night, she would be giving you that oh you're so angry. I don't think that's her. I think she would probably be kind of like a down home chick. I could just be completely misreading it because I've done it's people. But um, I don't know,

Like what's y'alls read on her? I haven't met her, right, I think Renna has her gears and like she's she's got the Housewives gear. She's got like the e red carpet gear, like gear TVC. Like she knows how to like be her own like variation. Yeah, I mean to put food on Ryan's table. I don't know if I would do all that. I don't know if I would do a diaper endorsement. I think I would just be like, it's not gonna work out, like we're gonna get divorced.

I won't, I won't wear the diaper full stop, full stop. No. But yes, she really has no shame. I think. Well, first of all, I do did a diaper endorsement recently too. Sorry just putting that. That's that's almost like shady a little bit. It's almost like stepping on the on the turf. I'm fascinated. I will say, um, the diaper cartel. I do identify in many areas of my life as a Wrenna because I can't help myself sometimes. Wouldn't Rena be iconic to watch what happens? Because you know she's going

to start ship right in front of you. Oh yeah. And she's also like kind of even more outrageous on watch what Happens Live sometimes than shut glasses and yeah, and she's like flipping the camera off. Yeah, she was like she was starting chaos all over the place. Yeah, she was like, I'm going down in flames on my own terms. Garcella also always starts and watch it Happens live.

It's like there's always something that pisses someone off about Garcetta, like the other day, I forget what it was, but of course that was the iconic thing of her saying Denise wanted to come back, but someone had to go, and then it was a whole thing on the reunion. Yea,

I fucking love the show. We were in Fire Island shooting the movie coming out, and one of my favorite days I just texted Bone and all about it was we woke up on a when on like a on like a weekend, and we just watched the episode would where Dorite said I don't understand it in four languages, and we're like, this is the best show on TV. I don't understand it. Oh my god, Oh it's so good. All right, well we have to move to I don't think so, honey. This is our one minute segment where

we you're gonna do great. Well, we rant about something in culture and mine actually is sort of on topic. Okay, all right, so this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so, honey. His time starts now. I don't think so, honey. That it seems like Kathy Hilton is going to be the villain of this season. I am not on board. And this is so classic because you come on, you're a fan favorite and then they try to get you the second season it happened. I don't want it to happen

with Kathy. Now. Are the rumors that Kathy apparently called Sutton stracs assistant a fag when he couldn't put a bag on an airplane? Asked, is that I do think, so, honey? Is it not also a little funny for me, as a gay person to think of Kathy Hilton sitting there in a corner watching a little gay trying to get bag on to plan them and saying fag. I don't think so, honey. I think that's kind of funny. You

want to see it? Um, This is the problem when you tell people like Kathy Hilton that they can say fag, they might. I'm so honey that we won't be able to enjoy Kathy anymore, the hunky dory of it all, the portable fan of it all. I kind of want Kathy to just be what Cathy is. And I don't think, so, honey, this is gonna be a tough reunion for her, which Garcela said on Watch What Happens Live. I don't think, so, honey,

that we can't just enjoy Kathy. Please. I don't think so, Honey us chasing Kathee away like Kathy Kathley Hope, Kyle and her are okay, I don't think that's one minute god and agreed, I'll count. There's something about a woman that gay people love staying fag on a plane that just kind of is like, it's okay, Banks did it, you did it today? It was it was on a plane, but Baron did it, and we and and she is allowed, you asked for and you're reference you are referencing a

published work quote I was quoting quotations. Yeah, and happy Hilton doing it. But I don't think that's the that's the villain narrative for her completely, her being locked out of that store to make me pee my pants laughing. I can't believe it. Just the richest woman in the world, like pulling a door and Erica jambiond like, don't get don't open that really good. I want her to stay pure, but I don't know if she will. Apparently it's bad.

I don't know. I mean she's untouchable, like she's like, oh what, you don't want me on Real Housewives anymore? Peace the funk out? Then yeah, I gotta go back to my fucking hotel that I own. All right, bow and Yang, do you have a topic, sweet deer? I think so. I could I could do another, I could do have every one, or I could do something else. But what do you think? I think you should do

whatever your heart desires. I'm gonna do a Beverly Hills one, but it's going to be a little bit of a of a downer al right, oh yeah, and then and then mine will be kind of like in the middle of the great perfectly okay, perfect I don't think so, honey. This time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Crystal Kung Minkoff coming off as like a full SOB story

and the trailer for this season. I need her to go back to the way she was beginning of season what was it twelve eleven last season, where she was like fully in Sutton's ship, like making her have a mental breakdown every episode. Like I need that Crystal to come back, Like the eating disorder thing is really, really, really vulnerable, and it's really amazing that she like wants

to open up about that. But I need Crystal to be mean and I'm sorry to say this word, but bitchy again, that's what that is so powerful for her as this like wealthy Asian woman to project on the TV. Like in a way that's different from like Dragon Lady. It's different from Tiger Mom. It's differ from crazy rich Asians. It's a new ti of Asian woman that we have not seen in the media, like bitchy Asian lady who can like tear down a white woman at a fucking

backyard dinner party situation. I need her to wear allegedly ugly leather pants and make a Southern woman lose her mind. And that's fine a minute. What we need is iconic rich Disney wife. Yes, that's all I need. That's all I want from Crystal. I mean she can be of course, she is this multidimensional woman who like has her struggles, and it will be very important for her to talk about this. Um. It seems like it's really going to be sad though, like she's she's she's really struggling with that,

you know, like it's it's tough. It's happening on Jersey right now with Jackie Goldschneider and what what I'm really appreciating it about. It is such a vulnerable thing to talk about and Crystal. I think I almost think Crystal couldn't come back unless she talked about it. And I think the good thing about when they do bring this onto the show is that they're making a public and

concerted effort to get better. And that's that's that's I So I'm in full support of it because I think even if it's not like you know, iconic, like so woman like, it is like something that's her real life and all I want, all I want is for her to you know, feel good about herself because she's so beautiful. I love Crystal completely agree. She's been so vulnerable about it and open about it on like podcasts and interviews, and I think this I hope this is another piece

of that. Um. I just hope we get uh some air time with her being like, you know, the Crystal that like I fell in love with. But I don't want to dictate or predicate the version of herself she should be on TV. I just hope that we don't lose some of that. What are your Crystal thoughts, Maren? I really liked her and I feel like in that season where she's introduced and she's talking to Sutton and you kind of like I think of Sutton as the villain when she's like, oh are you that role like that?

I don't see colored girl, and she like clocks her and she gets so defensive. No, I'm not talking about this, I'm not talking about this. I was like, yeah, Crystals Heller because like so many white women, they needed to hear that that year of all years especially, so I was just like hell yes, and Heiress to Lion King like,

I don't know what could come. Um, So I'm hoping that, like with editing, they're just trying to make the trailer look really MOPy, but I think that it's actually going to be a lot lighter when it actually comes out. So that was my thoughts. There was also that scene where like Erica with just Rna and Crystal, where they're clearly at someone's home and they're dressed to the nines and Crystal says to Erica, is it that bad? And Enda goes, yes, there's there's no house. She nails her line,

She really does her line. So Angry Culture Finale Um Last Culturally, Last episode of Last Culture says every whenever it happens, it's not us. You're gonna win a Peabody finally, um okay, Marion Morris, are you ready for Honey? Yeah? I think so, this iconic moment in history. Okay, this is Marion Morris's I don't think so honey, or time

starts now, Okay, I don't think so honey. Music trends on TikTok, and I don't care if I come across as a jaded, neo luddite boomer with this perspective, but as someone that likes TikTok and we'll continue to use it after this read. I cannot deal with the laziness of music label old guys thinking in the last two years, I'm not having to put any money into creativity, into

music videos, into a ward show, into touring. They think the only way they can make money is off of a TikTok trend through music and a twelve year old making up a dance with only their upper body and it has no swag. Cannot imagine my own songs popping

to that. And I love TikTok, but it is such a lazy way of old guys in suits to make creatives feel like they're only contest creators and I just can't And I think that like label guys to TikTok music trends is like Gretchen Wieners to fetch, Like it's not going to happen. Wow, thank you so much for saying this. And this is the crazy, this is the most This is the craziest example I can think of is Matt did you clock the Demi? Lavada released a Cool for the Summer sped up version because the song

has been trunning on TikTok. People are doing their little dances. Great, we love it. But then they released a sped up version of Cool for the Summer, a song that is like at this point six years old, like a sped up version just like get streaming dollars, chasing it down, chasing it down. But it's like this is so fucking transparent, Like it's just for the techtok dance of it. All that all people are doing on the TikTok app is just speeding speeding up the sound like double speed or

pitching it up. It's like, which is great, like that helps with the dance, but it's like, this is not a way for like music suits to like make money. It's so stupid. Our engineer, Doug who's worked in the music bizin for for years as amen okay. COT engineer Doug says, Amen, we love you dog. I mean, there's there's, there's a time and a place, but for it to only be the way of the future, it's just so soulless.

And I just feel like it just makes everyone on this conveyor belt of like musical fast food, and it just kills creativity. And for those who have done well with it, I commend you, but it honestly makes me hate the song sometimes where I only hear four seconds of it and then I'll see that it's like nominated for a grea at me and I'll be like, wait, this is the part I heard on TikTok and this is the whole song. It makes me go out of my way to not listen to it. Honestly, it's unnatural.

It's not like the way that we consume it's and even if it's like supposedly the new way we consume media now, like like in this at this length, it's like it's not how it should be necessarily, I don't know. And and also you know, we we talked to artists like we had Betty Huan and I talked to um

someone who's a recording artist. I won't name him, but like he was saying that his label was like you have to have a TikTok hit and a huge TikTok presence, or like we won't push the music we Slian Michaels

has talked about that. Jillian Michaels, who has written like one of the like some of the biggest pop songs of the last decade, has said her own label, like she put this on Twitter a few months ago where she was like, if it doesn't go viral immediately on TikTok, they just don't promote it, and it just sucks because it's like not everyone is treated that way, but it's becoming like such a like store business where that's there's no creative like everything is just sort of put on

the same chopping block, like this artist. And you even see like Florence in the Machine unwillingly but begrudgingly doing TikTok's because she'll say, my label is making me do this, and all she does is seing like acapella and her fans love it so like it's totally in its own way, poking fun at it and it's pure, but it's still like her being Florence and but yeah, she's like my labels making me do this. It's just like I love I love like the artists that are at least like

reclaiming ownership over their own like platform of art. And it's not just being this very see through marketing tool. They shouldn't be putting that position in the first place, where like you are really pushing all of your creative instincts into like a mold that is like the size of a fucking like pinhole. You know. It's like, how are you gonna, like, right, how is that the objective to like write a song that like we'll fit into

like a four second little dance? Anyway, when, um, when are your next shows in l A and New York? Because we want to come see you. So I'm doing the Hollywood Bowl. I've never done the Bowl? What the hell? Um wait, I'm looking it up. It's that you don't know, Actually, no, it is. Well, I was trying to actually do two dates at the Greek because I just se x at the Greek. She put on an amazing show. Yeah, I'm so jealous. I actually saw it on TikTok Um. I

saw Casey at the Greek right before the pandemic. I saw Maggie Rogers. The Greek is insane. Yeah, but I couldn't because of COVID and all the backed up tours that are getting rescheduled. I couldn't get too consecutive nights. So I was like, let's just do the Bowl. So we're doing the Bowl October, end of July. Yes, yeah, I'm doing that July twenty night. Okay, we're gonna come

to both. I'm gonna go to New York and go to that, and then Bone's gonna come to a must go on us to be on Saturday Night Live that night, not end of July. Oh no, and on October. No, it doesn't matter, Lauren, I gotta go. Um, this was so fun to get to talk to you and meet you in person on Zoom et cetera. Blah blah blah. But your album is so great, I mean, and like, especially at a time when they're pushing like you know, the TikTok bullshit. Thanks for making like such an capital

a album and you're just the best. Thank you. Well, hey, um you guys, like whatever you need, Like I want to meet you at these shows or let's meet up in the same city. But please come back and say hello, don't have us it's it's I mean, we we admired respectfully at the Bowery Ballroom. I'll take anything I can get, if it's just a little wave or anything. We love you so much, Mare, and truly this is so so special.

Thanks for coming on, Thank you for having me. I'm always going to check my DM s. Now, there you go, I got it. You gotta be checking the d ms. And that's actually for everyone out there. You have to check the dm We end every episode with a song and by when you know the one it's going to be. And I'm curious to know what keys we both choose. No, it's not, it's it's one of yours. I feel like a hot And to hear the rest of that you have to listen to Hero but stream Humble Crest. Bye bye