"Luke, You Are My Fodder" (w/ Matt & Bowen)

those would be sort of morning episodes. And how do we ever do it? I really can't even I don't have the sense memory of us like getting up in the morning. I know that it happened. I just don't know how we did it. But remember when we do three episodes in a day, girl, the marathon that that has, the marathon, that that has the the true like over

extension and of labor that that has. Girl, when we were in l A, just for a couple of days, we were like, we have to fit in everyone in the city, and we do three episodes in a day, two days in a row, and then be exhausted and mad at each other. And I just want to say the reason we're just for transparency for the reader. The reason we're recording this during the days because I texted my sister and our hot producers and I said, I need I need the mental health night. I'm sorry, y'all

needed a mental health night. And this is that's because you, I believe it. Overworked girl. I'm just gonna say it, the girl, you are really breaking ground with this. You are the first to say I'm kidding. I feel like y'all are doing five weeks in a row and that is pandemic only the culture that's in our culture, because that would never happen. Um. Oh, but you know what I wanted to say, this is something we can talk about because I actually, unless you don't feel comfortable talking

about this, I feel comfortable about talking. You'd be shocked how much how many things I feelt trouble talking about. Well, we have to talk about this for some reason. You said something earlier that made me think about the view and you were just blocked by a view co host. Well, I'm so happy that you brought this up and sort of teed this up because I think this is this

is this is the story. This is a story, and not only is it the story in this podcast, but it's also become a trending story in the culture, which to me is always whenever I feel like something happens here, and then cosmically it's like the faiths decide that we're going to get a response from the culture capital c I get rock hard. So last week on the podcast, we sort of the three of us Bowen, Sam and myself.

By the way, what a great episode. So we had a thrill of an episode and we sort of touched on Megan McCain and I said, well, if you really listen to the content of what she's saying when she trends, you'll notice she constantly makes it about herself. She it's it's always about her. So now a few days later, I see that she has blocked me, and I'm like, that's interesting because I've never once added her ever, never talked, never tweeted at her, only said what I said on

the podcast. So I reached out to a source that I reached out to a source and I said, go, Megan McCain blocked me, what could be the t on this? And this source said, oh, absolutely, one of her gaze told her and then he said in a parentheses, chills and I said, yeah, a chill ran up my spine when I thought about what it must be like to be one of her gaze. So then I was like, oh,

she blocked me. Whatever. Then she gets on The View this week and says this stupid ship about how it's crazy that I, Megan McCain, co host of the View, don't know when I'm getting the vaccine and I'm over Dr Fauci and he needs Biden needs to fire Fauci and get someone in there who understands science. This is barely paraphrasing. No, no, no, you're you're basically quoting her.

So basically she trended for being an idiot and making it all about herself and just being that kind of spoiled person that cannot help but make this situation about her, because it would be one thing if she's just like voicing a frustration about vaccine rollout and about like the plan of the vaccine, because I get that. But to say I, Megan McCain, co host of the View, must know when I'm getting the vaccine is just so tone deaf in presentation of your argument. But that's her. I'm

sorry she gives off like only child vibes. But she has like, you know, five siblings. She has many siblings, but you know, I believe she believes she's the favorite, you know what I mean, Like whatever, I don't know, it just feels like she her the the whole thing. Though.

The reason she keeps trending is because she is speaking with like zero self awareness, and so it just she just she just catches herself in these like moments of like pure solipsism where she's like, my reality is the only reality, and my my title as co host of the view, and just like makes it so that you would think that I would have access to the vaccine or entitles her to like more information, you know what

I mean. It's just like it's it's crazy to say that out loud, but then it's just so it's so in line with what her deal is that I had to laugh because you know, it wasn't even like we were reading her down for like for like something that was inappropriate, like didn't comment on anything but what she says and how she sent her ideas, which is very uh self centered and very like spoiled, and it does come off this way, and you know, I didn't say

anything about how it's hilarious to watch her say these things with her hairstyle looking the way it does every day. I didn't drag her for her styling. And you know, if her gaze are the ones putting her together in the morning, then uh, I say those welcome to the welcome to the resistance gays. Now, I feel like there is such a culture where happening among the queers where

it's like, oh, Hell's kitchen gaze versus whatever gaze. But I feel like the real sort of the first thing we have to like rally around is really kind of vanquishing these Megan McCay gays. I mean, there's at least like two of them, there's you have, There has to be at least two because one has to be doing the hair, the other has to be doing the makeup. So basically it's like, we know there's at least two Megan McCay gays out there. And we should also say

at this point, she's resigned to the board. She has resigned from the board of Lost Culture. Is this it's just Abby Huntsman. I mean, I'll have to check in with Abby about that, because I don't know if she'll want to stay on the board of directors of Lost Cultures. This and now that Megan McCain has resigned, because I'm assuming this is all a resignation. I'm assuming her blocking me. And I'm sure because there's the thing. It wasn't just me. You also wou you went off, So maybe she blocked

lost coulch to who knows. I didn't. I didn't dig dig deep this. This is just my general philosophy. Now. When I when we talk about people on this podcast, I go, I think, what's the worst that can happen?

Like with Diane or with Justin Timberlake, with Megan ncain, it's like I take a ship next to them in the bathroom, like who cares, Like there's no I don't have to, like I will not be forced to really work with these people in a way that I am that I feel like cornered into, like you know, like I'm not gonna like have to like sit down with any of these people and be like, well, sorry about those things I said, but I guess we better get to working on this award show presenter, you know, like yeah,

I mean unless you get on the view or something like and and that at that point, it's like if either of us were ever on the view, I would turn to her and i would look her deep dead in the eyes, and I'd be like, ask whatever question you have because because at that point, this is the thing. Though everyone that you just mentioned, we didn't say anything untoward about them, No, we on this podcast we respond

to things that happened in the culture. So if you put your foot in it and you're part of the culture, you become fodder. Bitch, you become fodder girl. And I can't say if you have become fodder, that's your that's that's that's your funeral. You are, that's your funeral. If sometimes all these people all they are foder fodder And Luke, you are my father. Luke, you are my father. I think if I believe it goes Luke, I am your father. I think you are my father because Luke is Lucas

fodder now because Luke's in the culture. Lu Luke, look, look, Luke got his foot in it. Luke got his foot in it. All I'm saying, oh, I'm saying, is I don't feel bad about any of this, because ultimately it's like and I did, like I texted you and I was like after I saw that she blocked me, and I was like, I was like, were we like disrespectful and you were like a girl. No, she's completely self interested.

And then I thought about everything she's ever said, because yes, she is like anti Trump, but she says some things where I'm like, god, like, she really dies on this. She's so pro gun in a way that's like so strange to me. And I'm not saying like people can't be pro gun, but she's like angry whenever the topic of like gun rights comes up, and it's like, to ignore the fact that there needs to be a conversation about gun ownership and gun usage in this country is

to me insane. And she also goes off about abortions.

She's like militantly pro life to the point where it's like, how what is it with pro life people where they can't understand the argument that this is different for every woman, Like I understand that you yourself are pro life, but it gets to the point where it's like, you would really see laws passed in this country that would restrict abortion access for women in this country who aren't as privileged as you, who aren't in the positions that you are in, who may need to have this done for

the life of themselves or the baby. Like it just is crazy to me these like pro life conservative women who then want to um, you know, blanket like what they think for this entire country. It's just so inappropriate. And she is that. And that's to say nothing about a litany of other issues that she takes conservative stances.

On the fact that you are concerned about whether or not you said anything about whether or not we said anything disrespectful about out her is like such a trap because I mean, this is this is someone who is like volatile and whatever. I mean, she's just someone who like constantly is so easily perturbed by things that like it's not ever, it's not about anything we did specifically, it's about the fact that she is in this like mode of existing to she's waiting to be like incensed

all the time. That's it. And so I don't know. And she's also we don't align on anything with her politically beyond just like basic things that would be agreed on just no matter what. And so I don't know, I don't I don't really feel any sympathy. McCain is

like at this point, is bugs bunny to me? You know, she's big, she's become bugs Bunny, and we just gotta really like we I just want to kind of retroactively say that the one Williams documentary that our conversation about Wendy Williams was maybe overly like sympathetic, because this is a woman who was like started rumors at like tupockeat Aids and that, like you know, like did he was cheating on like it just like she started gay rumors about everyone and she knew she knew what that was

going to do in that particular community too, and she knew what she was doing. Wendy has caused harm. Megan has caused harm, unfortunately. We there was another thing too that she said that really bothered me, which was she came back from maternity leave. She took a very long maternity right, and she came back and she said, you know what, I actually realized we need paid maternity leave.

And everyone there was just like, uh yeah, and what he was like, I mean we've been saying and I think that they were like cool, good that you say this now. And I'm also like, we say a lot. I think I've said a lot on this podcast, Like I'm if someone wants to arrive on the right side of an issue, like whenever, whenever that happens, I'm happy about it, you know what I mean, Like I don't yell.

I'm not the kind of person that's like wow, really now, like I experienced some of it with like the brittany of it all. Like when I tweeted out like you know, this documentary is about a misogynist society, I got a lot of responses that were like, yeah, duh. And so I'm not the kind of person that's gonna scream yet at someone, but this is an example of kind of what I'm saying. It's like it's almost like things have

to happen to her. People like this like need issues to be personal in order for them to be felt at all. And that's I guess my problem with everyone who's like a quote unquote traditional conservative and anyone that's conservative anyway, is it feels like there's a complete disregard for certain issues that just are never going to affect them.

So for example, like of course they're all going to be pro life because it allies with their like you know, religion, a sort of upbringing probably and it's just like this sort of moral superiority that they all have because they don't have to actually encounter and like grapple with a reality where it would be life or death for them if in terms of needing an abortion. That's just not

part of their experience. And so when she says something like that about paid maternity leave, I am frustrated because it's like, so, you really needed to go through this to understand why this would be a viable thing. And I could tell that she was sort of like, this is gonna be my olive branch to the liberals today, and it's like, yeah, cool, thanks, I'm glad there's someone

saying this on television. But for her specifically, it bothers me when she arrives late to these issues because she has the she has the capability to be on the

right side. She never is. Never is the time. She's just sticking her heels or she's doubling down on like um a stance she knows is not controversial should but she's just like very much like I'm dying in the woold Republican from the eighties, Like I'm dying in the wold Bush era Reagan era Republican UM And you're like Okay, great, Um, you're so slow on like moving along the curve that

it's it's it's it's meaningless at this way. It's just laughable when you say ship like wow, there should be paid maternity leave, It's like, oh my god, no kidding. It's just like and it's just so insulting to women. I think, like for her to be someone who has been around for so long to only really be saying this now and saying like, let's make an issue of it now, we let's make it a thing. Like all the women of the View going forward, it's like all

the women of the Few have been saying this. And again, like if people want to arrive on the right side of whatever issue, that's fine. I just I don't. And I say this like being someone watches The View a lot and has for many years, and I've been familiar with her for many years. I don't think she's very smart. I think she understands the structures and um, I think she understands the ways in which politics works, and I think that she has a deep understanding of how Washington runs.

But I don't think she is um very self aware. I think that she has a bloated sense of herself that interferes with uh an ability to be truly empathetic. And I I don't think that she is a good co host of the View, and I kind of wish they would move on because I think she makes the show very hard to watch because I think a lot of her arguments are just frustrating, Like and I really think that she represents going back to a time that was the most harmful, where there was a lot of

inaction and quote unquote reaching across bio. She is like I mean, I think like on a producer level, they love her and they have to keep around as much as as long as they can because she is like

the new hassleback. She is like the person in the on the panel who's like making headlines and like getting the show like little blips of like not pressed but just like, oh, the views back in the conversation, the views trending because Megan McCain's trending because she said the stupid thing and Megan, and Megan probably knows to like keep like flicking at that nerve. Honestly, Yeah, I mean she's she's a she's a provocateur. Really, I mean, like

not in a way that's like and that sucks. But because I do believe she's like her, her and Ben Shapiro have I mean, they're not politically identical, but they have that same instinct to like say some bullshit to get everybody piste off. She knows what words she to use, Like, I think she's adept enough at at provoking interest in her so she knows to go on to V and

call Rush Limbaugh a titan of media. Meanwhile, like, you know, she didn't say anything positive, quote unquote about him, But it's that kind of language where where someone where someone gets on TV and says, you know, Hitler was a great man, and they don't say it like he was a good person. They said he was an influential person. They still know that they're using those words and that

they're gonna gain a reaction. I think she's good at that type of thing where it's like, I'm gonna use language that that um insinuates something but doesn't state something, and it's just I just I don't I'm not into it.

I can't believe she called him a titan of media, even if it's true that he was an influence, say he was an influence also coped to the fact that he was racist, misogynist, incredibly homophobic, started really started the birther thing about Obama, and like say that because you know it's true, and just because you're the conservative voice on this show doesn't mean you have to ignore the

realities of what this person was like. And I think that she feels that she's been so critical of Trump that she asked to sort of like preserve conservative voices that she's used to because she's so critical of the new GP that she ends up like just like really propping up these harmful figures from the old conservative stronghold.

There were the rushed Lumba thing is like kind of her being beholden to that like his peak which was like not his like one of his peaks, which was around the two destined election where her father was running against what was the Republican nominee. And it's like, oh, okay, there is this like actual um emotional I'm gonna say

time between Megan McCain and Russellumbauer. You've been like rubbing shoulders with these people for decades at this point, and like this was sort of like the environment you were raised in and you were like you used to like listening to Russia Lambaugh when you were growing up. Um, I just think I just think she's a product of that. Yeah. And also I just feel like there's been such a movement up since his death. There especially there's been this

like hero worship of John McCain. And I think it's fine and respectful if you want to, like, you know, give condolences to anyone that's lost a family member, or you know, give respect to someone that was an American

hero in that he you know, fought for this country. Um, was a prisoner of war and then dedicated his life to service on on a face on face value, I understand that, but I think there's a lot of rewriting history about like how great John McCain was, because don't forget that a big building block of why we even have Trump is because John McCain made the selection of arapalin And for his vice president and normalized this sort of thing of putting a no nothing on the national

stage because you know, had he been elected president, she would have been I mean, it's said a million times a heartbeat away from the presidency and normalizing that and mobilizing the kinds of voters that liked her directly helps Trump with what he attempted to do and was successful

in doing. In like so, it's just I don't want to forget that John McCain did the things that he did in terms of creating the situation where in now I just think it's it's a dangerous thing of you know, we talked about it last week to where it's like yea, Biden, it's like yea that we don't have Trump, but remember that, like these people were were the reason why this country is in such bad shape right now. The sort of just nothings that that we're in Washington that allowed a

situation that provided Trump. I don't know, it's just the whole McCain worships thing, the fact that they're like royal figures in this country. Now they're falling out of favor with pretty much everyone. But I just I don't like it. McCain's the McCain's being royal figures is chilling. Um, well, I have nothing that I have nothing that my brain is truly Um yeah, we can't. I mean, look, she's off the panel and she's distance, she's the open invitation

for to kill us. Is well, what you think I think. I think the invitation still stands. If she can get us to like her, if we can say, oh, she's actually really cool, then we will sappuko. We will seppuko. Specifically, this is the new layer um is that we will take a katana to the belly? Yeah and yeah, do you want to kill me? And then I and then I don't want to kill you? Know, I never want

to contribute to your pain. Okay. I just thought it could be fun, like if we were if we were, if if she comes on the show and charms us and then we have to die. I think it could be fun to kill each other. But no, I would that would make me so sad if I if I had to kill you, even if it was even if it was a bit, and we we both end up dead at the same time. I don't want to do that. We don't. That upsets me? Can I ask you a question?

Moving again? More fun? Culture? Another witch bitch? The one division of it all you Okay, everyone is like, I'm honestly a little not surprised. I'm like, wait, Agatha all along is like a thing now, biggest hit in the country. It's a driver's license, It's Agatha it's really what number is it again? Full rule culture number four? Agatha all Along is the driver's license. Everyone is quoting it, Everyone is doing the memes of Agatha all Along, And I'm going,

what happened to? Like, Okay, we're just like we're just gonna like spoil it for everybody, because I because remember like when Evan Peter showed up, Everyone's like everyone shut the funk up, don't don't tell anybody about this. And now it's like, I mean maybe it's because everyone saw this coming from a mile away that like Catherine Han

was playing on the Harkness. But it's like now Adath all Along is like it lives in this um I don't know, like shared visual language of like it's become cannon, it's become cultures. What happened? That's actually true? That's actually very true. Well Adatha all Along? I mean, what what what do we have to add? We just we think it's that we think it's fantastic. I think it's fantastic.

And so basically like in watching the show from the beginning, I knew there was something up with her, and I sort of in reading about what what she might become, like the agath haarkness of it all. I thought it was really fun, but the way they rolled it out I thought was so great, and I loved the song at the end, and I just feel like, Oh, this is why you cast Katherine Han, you know what I mean? You cast her so that she has something big and fun to do, and if she's going to be the

main antagonist, I think that rocks. And I think it's actually really genius casting because Katherine Han is exactly at that point where you can buy her being cast on this show as the nosy neighbor and the comic relief, you know what I mean. Like Marvel is so huge that even though Katherine Han is big to us because we respect her, you know, work as a as an actress,

and we always enjoy her. You think, like to the larger you know, consumption community, that's that's gonna maybe title of app or something with fadder fadder fadder, Luke, I am your you are, Luke you are my father? Might be might be titled that there's so much going on

with um. But she I bought I would buy if by the end she had just been the best friend all along, because we've seen her be the best friend, but then you realize, like, oh, no way, they know what they're doing, they know what they've got here, and her playing a witch too good to be true, too good to be true, but it is This is a weird comparison, but it's I feel like this person deserves

this kind of role in this kind of context. It would be like if you cast like Judy Greer in that role and you're like, exactly, oh, like this is so and she could handle You're there's a model for her being the best friend, but there's she also has the ability as an actor to become the main antagonist, and you'd be like so excited about it. I feel

like Catherine Haunting. I'm not comparing. I'm not like saying they live in the same neighborhood in the industry, but I think that like, there there are a few there's only a small handful of actors who like are in

that pocket and and we love them for that. And Catherine Hahn being in the m c U in this way is very fun and like now like it actually like I was reading on on on some stuff about how this is actually introducing horror into the into the m c U. Um Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness, which is coming out I think later at the end

of the year or early next year. But that's like, I mean they're saying that, like that is going to be the first I think Kevin fogg usaying that is gonna be the first technical Marvel horror movie is kind of which kind of fun. But like this is introducing like like dark hold like that tone. It's like this is introducing all those elements um where you have you know, like witchy, witchie spooky, which I think is so fun. Yeah. So did you are you familiar with the character of

Agatha Harkness. I only offer like cursory like readings about her that she's just she's wanted this like feature and she yeah. Yeah. She essentially a gray area of villain where in some comic series she is uh, full on antagonist like bad like kills Wanda's kids and then um in other ones, she is sort of a mentor figure and was even the babysitter for the Fantastic Four for

a while. And it's that thing of like, especially in superhero series, like it's common for villains to play um on the good side and the bad side, and you often see heroes be antagonists as well. I mean, they kind of dabbled in this with Captain America's Civil War where the Avengers were fighting against each other. But there's been so much talk about, um, whether or not this is a villain origin story for reboot of the Scarlet Witch. UM.

I don't know that they'll do that. I feel like in the in this beginning of you know, I guess Phase four of Marvel, it's kind of better to start it off on a more straightforward thing like the Scarlet which we're seeing her become a quote unquote which and she'll earn that Moniker, but she'll stay um good character and stay in Avenger. And it feels like easier to swallow that Agatha Harkness is now just a new villain figure, whether or not that's just for one division or in

the larger m c u UM. But it's interesting that they bring this character in because this character, just like Wanda, has served a purpose of villain in the comics and you know, protagonist of the comics. So you still don't really know where it's going. It could go either way. I've also seen some theories that you know, Agatha is

not the main antagonist that she's calling someone else. That's maybe that maybe is why this is all happening, so that she can conjure a greater villain that will become like the Thanos of this new part of Marvel, but all very interesting and thrilled that Katherine hann is ushering it in. I love that, I love I love that my sister is getting into m c U. It's been It's the first show in a long time that I

watched every episode like four times. The repeat viewings for me is what's so surprising about you that you were watching these episode that you're staying up till midnight on Thursday nights to watch it and then you rewatch it. I mean this, I have not done this with the show since I want to say, I'm so sorry to say, like early season Grey's Anatomy, like, I have not done this in over a decade. What is it about the show that that that keeps you repeat watching? I was

thinking about this earlier. I was like, what exactly is it that gets me to keep watching? I think, to me, it's it's a it's just purely fun to watch. But B I also think there's a mystery element that I like, and I think that something about myself that I'm rerealizing is that I actually love a mystery, and I think I might start reading some Maggotha Christie books to be Honest Girl, Murder on the Lanes, Murder on the or Express.

I think I would really enjoy it, um just because to me, like I do love like Easter Egg culture um looking through and being like, oh, that's that or that needs that, Like, I just think there's like an

extra layer to the storytelling which I love. And I think if I can trace it all the way back really to the beginning of when I thought culture might be for me, Lost was um something that's sort of huge for me, And it's sort of pretended to be this thing that if you watched to the end, everything's gonna make sense, and it obviously failed in doing that. It was an enjoyable show episodes, episodes, sometimes season by season,

but ultimately it couldn't follow through on that. And I think the reason why I'm loving one division so much is that I feel like this could, potentially, when the loop closes, all makes sense in a way that is going to make me very excited. I feel like I've actually this so many times before. You have not seen Watchman. Correct, No, not yet, and I and I really want to. It's just, you know what it is. It's just I don't like violence, but and I it's it's it's fine. I have to

get over it. I will watch it next, I really will. I think that the the it's Damon Lindeloff again, who is able to actually make it all makes sense and have it fit within the canon of the graphic novel.

I think you would love you would really enjoy the graphic novel, or at least like a summary of it, and then you should go into Watchman thinking it's so interesting how because it's like it's a world where it's an alternate timeline of America, and it's a world it's it takes place in the modern were not the modern takes because so yeah, I'm modern, but still um a

world with no Internet. It's like, it's really like the choices about the world are so so interesting and they're so intentional, and it affects like it's so thoughtfully realized, and the mystery element that like sustains itself throughout the entire series season. It all comes together in a way that is so satisfying and makes total sense. You will fucking cream you love that. You know what? Now that I've enjoyed this so much, I really because and there's

nothing about it that I won't love. I think once I just settle into the tone, and there's there's there's a gay sense, and there's race, and there's there's a lot of fun stuff and fucking Gene and Jean Smart. I know, and I do stan. The third episode is is the Gene Smart centric episode, and it's my one

of my favorite episodes of television ever. And there's just, oh my god, there's just great, a great performance threat of Jeans Smart and the whole thing, and it's like, oh my god, odd, yes, yes, yes, I got so pumped watching that episode. I remember, and you know me, I don't really binge watch really, but watchman. I watched the whole thing in like three days, just like Supine on my couch watched every episode consecutively. Oh my god, you have to watch. Get over the violence. There's not

that much of it. Just watch it. I'm also fun. It's just you know what it is. It's just something I realized about myself as I've become much more of an anxious person as I'm getting older, Like I didn't used to have any problem with this ship like and then lately I'm just like it's sometimes I is this therapy.

Sometimes I will not watch something because I know what's going to upset me or make me feel an extreme emotion in any way, and so I will sometimes watch things or start to consume things like The Housewives, like like survivor honestly like a lot of reality television that I can just feel like I'm watching it and receiving it and like I understand it, and so I'm able to you know, laugh at it, not take it too seriously because it's not going to stir me in a way.

I don't know what it what that is, but especially over the last year, I'm just not wading into waters that are gonna make me feel a lot you are because there's not much going on, and we're just like I was talking to something about this where it's it's like they're like, I am trying to win off my

antidepressants because I am not. Because antidepressants make you, like help you get through the day, but you don't really need as in this person's case, they didn't need as as many antidepressants because they just weren't doing that much throughout the day to feel the need to be like

shepherded through the course of the day. Yeah, they weren't having emotions that needed monitoring exactly, and so you are probably like your baseline for like stimulus is going down, and so you're like, I don't want to be like shocked out of this like stasis that I'm in. Maybe that's it, you know what. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that and this is again me just therapyzing myself, which is l O L not what you do. But I'm gonna take a crack at it.

Maybe it's a thing of like, because I know I'm alone with my emotions, I don't want them to go out of control. Does that make sense? Like I'd rather every day feel sort of the same, then every day feel like wild. Like you know what's funny? Like actually messaged um Nick Laman and Jackson Ricken, who are friends. I I messaged them because they put on their stories that they were watching the finale of six ft Under

and the way they were sobbing. I was just like, I was like, I message Jackson and I was like, I don't think I've cried like that. It's such a time, and he was like, it's honestly an emotional exercise in a release, and I was like, maybe I'll rewatch the entire six ft under because it honestly looked fun to cry that hard. I was like, wow, I haven't I have not. Well, that's not true. I wept and wept and wept when I when I want Jared and I

broke up. But um, that was like the last time I can and only time I can feel I can remember feeling that big of an emotional swing. Part of me feels I left like those emotions behind when I when I left New York. So we yeah, like that you like that. There was a very emotional era for me, like towards the end of me living in New York. That really was when I felt like I could cry it any day at any time, and I was really feeling my Pisces moment. Now it's like, I don't think

I could make myself cry if I tried. I'm numb. Really interesting, But you are emotional girl, No, well, I don't know if you're admitting the truth. Well, lately I've been very emotional because my defenses are down because I'm exhausted. Um, but I feel I also feel like I left like an emotional era behind after Um I started this job at ES now, so I feel like I've I've just like really checked out overall, which is not good. I mean,

do you feel that's because like being emotional would waste time? Um? Yeah, that like our sidetrack you or it would just be it would just be like another expenditure and like I'm already spending so much time on other things and why yeah yeah, so yeah, yeah, it's exactly a waste of time. I did fully sob to SUITI on the studio floor last week for for boring reasons. But yeah, I'm not I'm not doing well. Well. It's okay to not be

doing well. It's fine, it's fine, it's fine to not doing And I also just want to say, I don't think we were supposed to record the episode last night. I think we I felt cosmically we were not supposed to record last night. I felt cosmically you needed the break and we needed to do a morning episode so we can wake up. Did I did? I forced? I'm sorry if I forced everyone to wake up. First of all, literally you didn't force anyone to wake up like we're

recorded at ten am. It's not like I'm like, it's not like I was in New York, where it's hard for me to wake up at eleven am. Like in l A, everyone's up a crack of dawn. When do you wake up? What's your what's your normal wake up time? This is gonna shock you, like I wake up naturally at eight am, Oh my god, whereas I'm telling you in New York, you outslept me in New York. Oh I'm I was a sleeper in New York, something about like the humidity is like my body can't live there.

But I have been missing it lately. I will say, Oh, maybe there is opportunity for you to return. Well, I am coming back. We can't tell anyone why, but we have a good excuse to your night. L O L. I don't know if it's that good. I think it's good. Oh my god, yes, yes it is good. Well that's a little teaser, oh little teasery, a little teasuri. What can I say? I can't. I can't believe we devoted that much time to Megan McCain, because you know she

hears and listens to everything. Oh yeah, okay, well, let's just let's make this. Should we make a promise here and now? Oh yeah, that we will only talk about Megan McCain once a year. Yeah, okay, so we we can have a once a year Megan McCain anniversary. We sort of revisit the year of Megan McCain. L O L no way. I thought you were gonna say, let's

make a pact we will not discuss her again. I think it's impossible to not discuss her because she keeps like saying stupid shit and she just allows that damn job. And also, here's the thing too, Any any conservative host of the view that was effective is gonna do this to the culture. It's just it's it's annoying. Facet of a reality in which the view exists is that they feel they must have that conservative seat, and that person in that conservative seat is always gonna piss off America.

And maybe that means that they're doing their job, but it is frustrating. I don't know. I don't know, girl, give me give me five Sherry Shepherds. I would really love that. I want to watch that show. Is that essentially the talk where everyone's just like I kind of know what I'm talking about. Sharon Osborne like, well, you know, I think Britney Spears is she's you know, she's a

She's a silly goose. She's a silly goose, and we have to let her be silly on Instagram and I think all this is she's a silly goose and you know she's not even sick, which is making mountain out of a mole hill. She's a silly goose on Instagram and iPhone. Enjoy it. It's really good. You know you're doing living a really good tracy woman is Helen Mirren before we got on. It's really good. What I like about She's wholes about his body and the problemishing fishing out?

What if? What a formative piece of culture for us, just for you and me as friends. It was I think I remember being one of after Nicki Minaj and Super Base, I think this video was one of those things that like really like formed a new bond between you and me when we were first getting to know each other, where we're like, oh my god, Matt and I are laughing at this thing for the same reasons.

I think the same exact reasons. And then and then you know, and then like over time it was like, oh, okay, Matt and Bowen have an ear for like, you know, is he Stephen saying I'm not a surgeon. I wish, I wish it was a truth, but I'm not. So I quite like like we like the auditor, like, oh like you times well you and I respond to Cadence extremely strongly, and I've realized that if I'm going to be close friends with someone, they have to put number one Cadence has. It's all about. It's why I love

Patrick because he's Cadence is important to him. It's like anyone in my life, Like you have to understand the way things are said. That's what it's like. You You called me the other day and I picked up, and the first thing you said was girl. I don't remember what was it was, I really want to lose three pounds. And then without without missing a beat, I said, oh my god, what are you talking about? You're so skinny?

Shut up? Which I know it's like basic to quote mean girls at this point, but like, man and I have a once a month discussion about let's just like have a mini discussion right now about this let's do it. I mean we've had a version of this discussion and many episodes before, but like we've threatened, we've threatened to do this on the pot, and we're doing it. We're

doing it. Rachel McAdams. Every single line read in that movie Oscar Worthy, I mean the whole like that, but that specific part like I really want to lose three pounds. What are you talking about? You're so skinny? Shut up? I mean, just a full, a full vignette. Also, we we talked about let me tell you something about janis Ian. That whole monologue just like a comedic performance that people

would die to give. I just feel like and maybe if it's released today, because there's more awareness that this happens, like to give the comedy movies are given the shaft when it comes to awards, maybe she would get something. But it's like it's like, it's why I'm rooting for like Maria Bekalova this year. It's like Award comedy, you

must because Rachel McAdams like, first of all, queen. Second of all, like you can't really picture anyone else doing it, and she and she wasn't a thing before that, and yet she came in and was like, no, I'm iconic forever. Let me tell you something about janis Ian. We're best friends in middle school, you know right, It's so embarrassing.

I don't even whatever. The eighth grade, I started going out with my first boyfriend, Kyle, who so hot and Indian Indianna who was so happy that he moved into Indiana, and Jane's was like weirdly jalous of me, Like if I would her off to hear with Kyle, she'd be like, why did you call me back? And then'd be like, why are you so obsessed? Why are you so obsessed with me? The very birthday party, which is an all girls, full party, I was like, Janna's I can't about you

because I think you're a lesbian. I mean, I mean, I couldn't right there was going to be girls. I mean, she was a less lesbian than her mom called my mom and started yelling at her. It was so arward, and she dropped out of school because not to talk to her. And she came back in the fall for high school and her hair was all cut off, and she she was totally weird and Oliver hair was cut off and she was totally weird. She's Oh my god, I love your scirt where you I mean, that whole

genius thing is genius? Are we saying Tina Fey is a talented writer? Oh my god? I mean it's also like there is a deep understanding in this text of what it means to be this type of girl. I'm not saying t is this type of girl. I'm saying she researched. Whatever this book is. It's based on queen bees and wannabes. Maybe this is worth a read because there is such smart, deft understanding of what it is to deal with this type of girl, to be this

type of girl, to navigate this type of girl. The social dynamics in the movie are like really well researched. And you know, I've never felt so seen as when they did the three way call attack that used to happen to me all the time. I was friends with these two girls, Alian Rachel, who I then had to say to them ultimately like we can't be friends anymore. And it was a whole thing. But they would routinely three way call attack and I was just like what

it was. It was something where it was like I didn't know it was so popular, and then when I saw it in that movie, I was like, Okay, I almost felt like, wow, that wasn't just something that I was the victim of. And then I feel like they stopped happening after the movie came out. In my life, they stopped happening because I would also get three way calls from like I think it was like Vicky Reis Jones and Ginetally and and and like like like full names.

It's fine, um, but yeah, like I think it just there was a drop off after the movie came out where people were like, oh, like our asses are unnoticed because I mean the girls came out right as we were going going into high school. Four yeah, like eighth grade,

Oh my god, oh please the worst. And also, like we always talk about like how it's sort of normalized a mode of behavior for that type of girl going forward to like this is the dark side of it all is that it really showed some girls how to be mean, like if they needed any help, Like there was Rachel Mick Adams that sort of expertly modeled that behavior. I had a friend I will not say her name because she should be mad, but I saw her start to act like this girl, like in the way she

was speaking, in the way she'd look at people. I was like, oh, you are influenced by this movie, because not everyone is going to be able to see irony in it, you know what I mean, that's the dark side of it. Because even now there's like there's like fun little like gen Z, Like there's a fun little gen Z pocket where like the bullies in school now are like kids were like, you haven't read enough Marxist

theory to be in our friend group. But it's like it's still from the same it's like a different kind of like mean person. It's a different kind of bully who's like intellectual and it's like whatever, like oh you don't respect people's pronouns enough so we can't talk to you. It's like that kind of thing. It's still it's still the same route, which is Regina George to me. Yeah, it's it's um And it's just it's just so funny because she made it look cool, like she is the

iconic part of the movie. Like it's not even cool, not even cool. She made it look fun, which is different, like yeah, yeah, and we we do stand. Don't I know you? Why don't I know you do you wait? What shut up? Pretty pretty every everything pretty there there. I don't know. I feel like it's aged in a way that I mean, there's some things about the movie that are like oh that's rough, but um yes, which

which is every movie from that time. But I feel like the fact that it's still like in like the momentic language of like, oh, like you show someone a picture of like Regina George's crossing arms and saying, so you agree, you blank, like whatever, like whenever that's like a reaction to something like that, Like it feels like you can't remove. It's not gonna like wean off anytime soon. That this is still like a reference that people immediately understand,

you know what I mean, part of the culture. Even yes, well that's what I mean to say, but it's like not not not even like Heathers did that, not even like I'm gonna say, not even Clueless did that for gen X. I think it did, but but it never

was going to. I think that it's gonna feel more culty to us, obviously because of our age and also because probably at the time, like you literally had to go see the movie in order to understand and have it circulate the sort of like in order to for that generation to sort of meme something like, they would have to be an active seeking out of it. And I think it probably made it more exciting and and

or just as exciting in a different way. But I understand what you're saying where it's like it feels like because our generation would then be the generation of um, you know, meming things and me becaueen the coming comedy, it feels like it hit it exactly the right time because it's nostalgia. It's actually good and it's and it's hitting with our particular generation, which is, like, you know,

for better or worse, addicted to meme culture. But I even think I don't know, I think I think it like in some ways that missed the cut off, and yet it's still survived, it's still circulating despite that, it's still like I think some Gen Z people would would see a mean Girls mean be like, I understand what that's from, and it's not like cringe or whatever, you know, So it's like that that's that's the thing that is unique to mean Girls that I don't think happened with

Clueless or with Heathers or with like other like movies from that neighborhood. I wonder when Mean Girls will feel stylistically period slash dated, you know what I mean, like literally six months who knows truly I mean, And I think, actually, if we watched it again now, And this is actually funny because Joel was over the other night and they were playing Mean Girls before Drag Race and it was the end of the movie and like they show like

the young plastics and like the skirts they're wearing. It's so two thousand four. And also just called the choice of music obviously, like when Milkshake is playing, when the

little girl is dancing, like that's so funny. But just like it is starting to get to that point where you're like you watch it and you're like, oh my god, this movie is so two thousand four, to the point where like, so there's like the way that Rachel McAdams is dressed as Regina George the whole movie, and then when she's nice at the end spoiler alert, and she's

ever and she's like a lit crosse player. There's a point where she is walking uh in front of Katie and then they waved to each other and there there's like a sign of respect like that they've moved on, and the way that she's dressed, you could tell at the time they were like, you know, she should be dressed sort of like more neutral in this scene, and

like she's not wearing quote unquote cool clothes. And I turned to Joel and I was like, she looks way more chic there than she is in the whole rest of the movie. And then I realized like they were just trying to put her in like shitty, boring clothes like at the end of the movies, to show that she was no longer like this queen bitch of the school. But it's just it just kind of says, like the way, like the kind of fashion now, like what's in vogue

right now, I think is just more neutral. So so it's kind of in a way, it's just it just kind of said, like that's the way that fashionist progressed, Like it's a little bit less pastelish, you know, than it was then. Was how would you categorize the style of that time? It was like talking about mid auts, mid aunts. It was like I'm just gonna name retailers, like, yeah, it was Hollister, like Abercrombie and American eagle. It was like that. It was like graphic tease, bright colors. I

mean remember that. Remember how like flip flops were like a moment. Do you used to wear jeans and flip flops. You could find me in jeans and flip flops at all times, even freshman year of college, like walking girl walking down fourteen Street in jeans and flip flops, thinking and a v nick and thinking, I look so good. I look like I just walked out of the gap.

Aspirational at the time, like truly wild. Well, I told I've told you the story of UM when I had my first like my r A sat us down on the floor of of like so we kind of like the very first floor meeting or freshman year and we all have to go around and like say our name and like what we were trying to major in or whatever. And when we were from I got up and was doing like my mask drag thing. I had like my spiky hair, I had my American hugo polo jeans and

flip flops. Probably everyone laughed at me, and it was just it was well because I was dressed that way and it was n y U. So everyone there was like for some reason, I ended up on the floor where everyone was just like had their style figured out, I guess, or like, could I remember people from that floor from freshman year. I was so taken aback because at the time, like the way I was dressed was

the cool way to be dressed. Now looking back, it's like, oh, that was the cool way to be dressed on Long

Island from where I was from. And then I guess everyone else on that floor like had themselves figured out a little bit more or got the memo I guess six months earlier that you needed to stop dressing like this, like in New York in college, like I was looking very high school, and maybe a lot of it had not even I was obviously gay, dropping my voice like but laugh They laughed at me, and I was just like whoa like And that's when I realized I would

have to re establish an identity again. And then then the tug of war inside me that was, like do I just come out now or like try to establish myself as a straight guy again, which I know is so hard, but it's not even like the cool New York way to dress In two thousand and eight, as an eighteen or nineteen year old was even that much more sophisticated than what Long Island cool was, which is

too like the difference is American Eagle Hollister. But then like if you're you're much cooler if you actually went to Forever twenty one and Diesel and like you and even now that's like laughable, It's like it never I don't know, no one, No one's like unless you're just dressing and like all black everything, you're always going to be like ridiculed in retrospect for what you wore. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, And I think I think also like the awareness of that being true caused me to dress

boring well. And I look back and I'm like, I used to wear just like a lot of black or just like whatever color I knew worked for me, like a lot of blue. Um, like the amount of blue ship I'm wearing blue right now, like and also my whole like aesthetic and this blue blue, blue blue blue, I do blue group. And I think it's just because of fear, like like like like like um, when I

developed in terms of how I dressed myself. And we've actually had this conversation I believe with Max Witter on his episode we talked a lot about like style and how um, how that you know is is influenced by the culture around you and how you want to be perceived, obviously, But it's so funny because I look back on like my late teens in early twenties, and I did dress in a lot of like bass and a lot of

like you know, inoffensive colors and patterns. And now that I guess I care a little bit less or know myself a little bit more, I do dress in more colors. And that's so funny because I just got a new card after my accident and it is bright red and Joel saw and he was like, this is ostentatious. He's like, this is not you. And I was like, well, you don't know me at all then, mm hmm, girl Hanset, is that also a moving from New York to l

A saying interesting? I don't maybe I think so. I think I honestly think it has more to do with just with me being like, no, I'm actually comfortable expressing myself the way I want to. Yeah, you have a very cool sense of style, though you always know the

cool things, that's not necessarily true. I know what works for me and it's not even too far elevated above like basics, and like god, I mean there was a time, there really was a time when like it was cool, at least in my like in my understanding, to my understanding, it was cool to wear American apparel. Everything like that was like a look, yeah, in our early twenties, it was, it was. And now now it's like a little bit I mean, now you're kind of going back to that.

There's the entire world and there's l a apparel. There's like already like a harketing back to that, which is is interesting. And now I'm just like, oh, I I'm reading a lot of like Japanese fashion magazines where like the style is called like city boy, and it's just like you wear a baggy hoodie and like a flannel

over it and like sweatpants and that's the look. And like but that even even that's gonna like I know, we're saying such obvious things about like how style changes over time, but even but which is But I just want to say that, like I don't think I will ever be ahead of the curve in anyway. I don't think that's like part of like my ethos. I'm happy to just like clock the trends as they happen and be like, let me try it on and then that's it. I here's what I'll say. Here's my assessment of you.

I don't think you are ahead of the curve. I think, however, you were always right on the pulse, like you always know. Like if I ever mentioned a designer, I can kind of tell from the way that you react whether or not it's cool or not say a designer. Now, Like for example, when I said I'm just gonna go I'm just gonna say this, when I said Tom Brown, you were like, yeah, maybe last year. I did not say that. I did not say that Tom Brown is great. Bowen,

you did not say Tom Brown. I did not say that Tom Brown was last You're scared that that face. You're scared now that Tom Brown isn't gonna want to dress you down. No, Tom Brown will never dress me down. It's it's that's not what it is. And if I take a ship next to the bathroom and next to Tom Brown in the bathroom, it'll be like, oh, hi, I don't know your your response to what I was shopping and I was I I think I sent you

a picture. I was like, I was like, I mentioned Tom Brown and you were like, no, I did not do that. You are lying gas lighter, big timer bow And how would I make this up? Oh my god, no, both, you know exactly what you did on my boat, gas lighter. You're gas lighting me. Here's what I want to ask you, because you're talking a lot about sweats and things. What is your what is your relationship to what I believe is the clothing movement of the moment and the past

couple of years, which is ath leisure. What is your relationship to ATHLEA Sure, I don't have too much of it. I have my sweat I have to sweatpants that I love that I will wear outside of the house maybe once a week, and that's about it. That's it. I'm becoming more comfortable with it. I never was a kind of person because I just But but I'm telling you, once I brought, once I bought my Brooks Marks track suit. You are wearing the Brooks Marks track suit. It is

so comfy and it's holding up. The only thing about it is I'm not entirely sure how you how you go about washing it? Because there's that lining that I think is going to be problematic and washing it. But I love it so much. By the way, by the way, the second part of the reunion, Oh my god, Oh my god, we haven't talked about Salt Lake fireworks. Lisa, what can you give a take? What is your take? What is your temperature? It's been a while since I it's been a it's been it's been like almost a week.

It's been five days right since it aired. Mary is truly despicable. Oh, we have to do this. We resend the second day of Culture. Miriam Cosby hits the world stage, we re send it. I mean, she's certainly hit the world stage. We can't deny that it happened, but we sort of propped her up as the icon of housewives, and I don't know if I can stand by this abject colorism. It was bad when she couldn't stop flapping her trap, when she, unprompted, offered that she prefers light

skinned men. She sort of just couldn't stop her mouth and basically said she prefers light skinned men, and no one had asked that, No one had asked that, And then she ended it with, you know, all black people are beautiful. All black people are and I'm so proud

of me. It's like, Mary, you got us. That's the thing is she had an out like because they were talking about when she allegedly said because Jen accused Mary of saying she doesn't like to go to convenience stores like seven eleven because shady black guys hang out in front of them and she doesn't like going there because of that, and she said it had nothing to do with race, and Meredith said, I left the conversation thinking she doesn't like to go to convenience stories because of

shady people hanging out in front of them. It didn't have to do with race. I didn't think she made it. Are really gave her an exit and it was there, it was. And then literally she literally goes but I do prefer light skin man, and I'm only laughing because it's so shocking, so awful. Couldn't believe it. And then when he was like, are you in love with your husband?

I think I am. But when she goes on about her marriage, that was also and then she eventually starts to break down and cry and everyone's like, oh Mary, it's okay. I did not follow the thread there because she was like, um, I'm not, because she basically started out saying, I'm not in love with my husband. It's not she said, it's impossible to stay happy for that long.

It's impossible to stay happy for that long. But then she goes on about she kind of like bounces around all over the place, and then she goes is, yeah, I'm happy, I'm happy. But it's like, wait, what are you and what is it? Are you unhappy? Are you happy? Is it impossible to be happy in that marriage, in the marriage for that longer? She needs to be on

someone's couch is what needs to happen. She Okay, So I watched this girl, v Brook Ashley, who does my favorite recaps, and she has a line that I will say here I must. She says she is crazier than a soup sandwich, and she is crazier than a soup sandwich. She needs to be sitting down on a couch figuring out what is really going on, because I don't believe

she's in love with her husband. I believe she because then she revealed that it was not in her grandmother's will that she marries him, which if I love that. We all were just kind of saying that without unpacking that, which is, even if it was in her will that it was her wish that her grand her husband marry her granddaughter, you can't force anyone to do that, Like, just because someone puts it in their will does not

mean that that must happen. Like you can't be forced to marry someone because a fan member of yours put that in her will, like it can she can say that this is her wish, but you can't force anyone to do that. So Mary had to have autonomy in doing this. And it seems like from what she said about how basically the marriage is worth it because she gets Chanel bought for her, that a lot of this

is about money. A lot of it's about money. It's like it almost stepped into like fiance territory for me, where like some of these marriages are purely motivated by money or by acquiring things, and I'm just like, this is just people are people are people? Like money like really breaks people, and it's and it's and it's just it's just sad. And then it did line up with that video that had that audio that had leaked off her yelling at her church because they weren't giving her

enough money. Like, I was like, this is someone who is number one priority is things and her bedroom is a fucking nightmare of clothes's it's wild, and so I think, like my takeaway from the whole thing is, oh, this is someone who is not willing to be honest about the fact that she's motivated by Greece and that her aunt lives in a smaller house than her, and she comes to clean up the house even though her aunt is like more is like technically closer to would be

closer to inheriting the Mega church or whatever. I just this is a mess. There's this there's such a darkness to Salt Lake City. Even though even though I think it was a fantastic first season, there was a great New Yorker piece about what makes what made this first season so good? Um, but I a lot of religious stuff is so so, so, so hard. I think that's

what makes it really interesting. And I think it's actually really interesting when you look at it through the lens of Heather too, because I want to talk about let's talk about Heather. Heather, the way that she was expertly dragging Lisa and like reading down everyone, I was like, I had to be like I don't think that you are this innocent woman that you have been pretending to be.

So I think that her and Whitney a little bit have been putting on this whole we're oppressed by our community and society and religion narrative and boo who Jen would rather be friends with Meredith and Lisa than us.

I think they have perpetuated a little bit of a victim narrative for themselves that didn't check out with me on this reunion because all of a sudden, they felt powerful because they saw the show and they realized that they were edited really most favorably, and they were most by the viewers, and they came in really feeling their oats in this reunion to the point where I feel

that especially Heather was being cruel to Lisa. And I'm not like, I don't think that Lisa is not a snob, but I don't think that she deserves the dragging that Heather was giving her, and that I think Heather takes glee in when it comes from the viewers as well, because I understood where she was coming from and when they took that lunch break and they thought the cameras went down all I'm saying is Heather was kind of a Yeah, Heather was she She turned to Lisa and said,

you're in last place and Lisa said what does that mean? And she was like she was like whatever, whatever, whatever, And Lisa was like what does that mean? And She's like, you've been a bad friend to Meredith. And Lisa said, why do you have to attack my one friend on the show? Why do you have to tack my ally? Like, why do you have to tack my friendship? Like you won't be happy until everyone hates me? And honestly, I

think she's right. I think Heather is out to destroy Lisa, and I don't think she needs to play it that hard. I really don't, because that's not why we like Heather. Not why we like Heather. But even though Lisa when they roll the clips back, Lisa was kind of a terror to Heather and Whitney like that that ski, that ski like meal that they had afterwards, I don't know, Lisa.

It's it's a very it's a very complicated dynamic. I don't have much to add in terms of let me ask you this question, Yeah, do you believe that Lisa new Heather before two thousand seventeen when she says they met.

Do you believe Heather that they've known each other for twenty years or do you believe Lisa that maybe they were in the same abstract circle but Lisa only really met Heather and two that in seventeen that whatever that because because they didnt they show a screenshot of the text where they were like, yeah, so excited to meet

you in person, excited to meet h Yeah. So basically then this all hinges on the big lie, which is the fact that Heather said Lisa doesn't see me, and I think this and and and is lying about knowing me, and they actually did not have the history that Heather had said. Because I think that Heather, you know, in coming out of the church, she just wants to be seen and she wants to she wants to demand, you know, respect because maybe she feels like she hasn't gotten it,

which I understand. I just feel that if that's anger and emotion that she has, I think it might be a little misplaced towards Lisa, like because I don't, I don't, I don't. I feel that it's probably true that Heather has felt disrespected and undervalued throughout her whole life, and so she's really coming hard now in her power and demanding that people like let her take up space and understand that she is a formidable person. I just think she doesn't have to try to kill Lisa socially, because

right I watched him. I don't want Jersey, but I watched the premiere. Same, did you watch it? I have the same thing. I don't want Jersey, but I watched the premiere. Well, Heidi, Heidi Gardner told me. She was like, you have to watch Jersey. I was like, okay, but I haven't watched and like truly like since like prostitution whore, Like will it be good? And she was like no, mean, I'm same. I haven't watched it in like almost a decade, but you should watch it. And I was like great.

And then um, the ending, the fight between Jackie and Teresa, I was like, yeow it was. It was kind of a similar thing where Jackie's like, I have the life that you want. I win and I was like holy shit. And then Teresa of course is like calling her the sea where it And It's like, oh, this is all just so she really was using the sea word, wasn't she?

It was I mean the episode was called the Next Tuesday, and but like but just her the beliefs of bee beep beep, but then just reading her lips just kind of saying the sea word was truly like it was kind of darring for me to as a viewer to be like, oh my god, she's really calling her that. Well, Teresa is a jarring figure. Teresa there. I haven't watched Jersey, but it feels like there's gonna be a puge blot

between Joe Gorga and Theresa this season. That will be very fascinating to see, if because for them to be siblings and have maybe a lot of stuff like buried not buried, but just like they seem to beginning along. I don't know. Yeah, Well, the reason I haven't been been able to ever watch Jersey is because the reminder it feels too real to me. I know people like this,

like from Long Island. It's just I heard you youhow in the episode I was like this, these are people that Matt knows oh time, big time, like, and so it's always hard because for me, even if it's not it's and it's not explicit always, but there is like there's a layer of homophobia that's running that I just feel uncomfortable with, Like you know, like I can even if they're not saying it, I can hear all these

people saying the word faggot. Well. I feel like in when Teresa was like spreading the rumor about what's his face like cheating on Jackie at the gym, is she is she implying that it's dude because it's at the gym and it's like steam room action or what. Because I'm just like, there's there's there's something missing here that they're either editing out or Teresa's like too afraid to say. As the cameras are rolling that, I'm like, oh yeah,

like what is this weird hidden frequency? And then um just just thought it was just so dark and deeply funny, but also like that this is many people in this country and around the world where she was like I didn't spread a rumor I heard oh please, we were laughing, Oh my god, we were laughing so hard at that because it's so doesn't make any sense. And I guess like that is what makes a good housewife, like a

true agent of chaos. Like we're but that doesn't make sense, and like so it's just so funny because what ends up being the conflicts. It's like there's something that happens, then people react to it, and based on the abstract way people react, that's what then causes the conflict. So like, what won't end up being the conflict is this thing of was there cheating happening? I think it'll be the line I have the life that you want? You know what I mean? That's that when exactly that's what I

like about Housewives. It's like it's like like like the other night, like someone said to me, like, um, I had a bloody mary that was the best I ever had, And I said, what, It's better than the one that I made for you on vacation and he was and my friend was like. My friend was like, well it wasn't restaurant quality. So then I said, if this was Housewives, a whole season would be me being piste that you said my bloody Mary's were not restaurant quality. And it's

that specificity and that's stupid conflict that I love. And so you need someone like Theresa to come in and have like the only she would say I didn't spread a rumor. I for that spinoff in this like insane direction about whether spreading a rumor is the same as her her hearing a rumor, which is nothing. But I love watching a full unfurling of a conflict based on

that stupidity. Well, this, this, this is maybe why like Miriam Cosby is bumping me because like it's it's gone too far, Like because at first we all went crazy over her. We loved her because it was like you smell likes you smell like hospital is the exactly what

we're talking about. Yeah, it spins out into this whole conflict, but but Mary, it's like, oh, you're you're not making sense at the time at this point, and it's actually really dark the ways you don't make sense and the ways that you contradict yourself and the ways that you will, I don't know, tell on yourself in these in these situations where you say I prefer light skin guys unprompted that,

it's like this is actually not fun anymore. And the whole Pentecostal thing is like really for me, I'm speaking for myself panically, just being Pentecostals is kind of really really scared to me because it is this thing where like it is linking emotion sational experiences, or it's saying

that emotional experiences are religious experiences no matter what. Which is so dangerous that anytime you feel any emotions strongly that that is God, that that is like really, that that is like not something that is independent of right an institution is like really really really terrifying to me. Yeah, and and did you see what Andy was like, Well, have there been rumors that your church as a cult? Mary just goes, yeah, oh my god, you did a

great Mary. It was just it was just so so of course, absolutely there's been rumors that the church's a cult. Why wouldn't there be? It's so and then and it isn't. Lisa, Who's just like, I mean, there are rumors that Mormon, that Mormonism is a cult. Not cut. We have to shout out Vanessa Bear for doing my God, Vanessa's impression of Lisa and watch What Happens Live and Whitney and Whitney. But it was the Lisa that was that was telling me this is so good. Here's a question for you.

And I've really thought about this. So if you, if you and I are in a situation where we're sitting at a reunion type thing and everyone's going in on you say you're Lisa, and I'm Thereith, You're I'm your best friend, and I'm sitting there like the way Meredith was. Meredith was not coming about for Lisa. Would you be upset with me? I would be like, you're not. I'd

be like, what the fuck? Yeah, I wouldn't be upset with I would be it would be an off camera thing where I'd be like, you're really passive right now, when people are truly tearing me to shreds. I would be mad. I would be really mad because I know for a fact that if everyone was getting up on you, I would be like no. And that makes me feel like maybe Lisa has a different view of their friendship then Meredith does, or Meredith just truly an engaging I

think there's a darkness to Meredith as well. I think Meredith is darker than Lisa tbh, not as dark as Heather at this point, because Heather is really trying to like manipulate in ways that are alarming. But Lisa is like there's something and I'm sorry. Meredith is like there's something about Meredith. It's like Beyonce watching jay Z and

Solange fight in the elevator and just standing there. Well, yes, I mean she did say on an episode that she has a history of um observing violence and that it it really has caused her to disengage and that that's what works for her. So I bet, I bet she's been through I wouldn't be surprised if she's been through like some sort of like therapy that has told her like you never have to engage in anything that is bad for you, and that she is just going to

sit on the sidelines about this. But the fact of the matter is, like the show might not be for her then, because that's gonna I think it's funny now, Like the fact that she is the House five that disengages. I think it's funny now. But she can't be too sleepy for the whole thing, you know, and her not and and it's so funny because she really just had one moment in this episode and it was, let me make something extremely clear, my husband is off limits and

if anyone talks about it, you're not my friend. And that's that. And she like really laid the hammer down and it was her one moment. And yeah, nothing other than that, nothing, And for Lisa to be like so the center of conflict and Meredith to not chime in really at all. I would have been pissed. And there it's only kind of the only tag away for Meredith this season is the only memory is I'm disengaging image

and I'm no longer engaging. If you guys want to eating the conversation man Soft, you have to read this New Yorker piece about it. Starts off saying how Brooks Marks is Like I did read it. I thought it was great. I thought that was a really good observation. She was like, the audience turns on Brooks. I mean, I don't know if you feel this way, but I kind of like, oh yeah. That was when I kind of wasn't as enamored with Brooks Marks as a reality

character reality show character. Was when Brooks was like Jen was like showing her vagina all over the pist. I was like, oh, but you, hm hmmm, like this is a little too this is this is this is reverting to like a different trope in reality television that is no longer relevant because you were like a very good student of the form up until that point. And here's

my take on that. Because they talked about this in this episode of The Union too, Meredith was like it was inappropriate the way she was behaving her vagina was I don't think it was clear enough in that episode

that it was such a thing was out. Yeah, I don't think it was clear enough that like she was actually being inappropriate in front of the kids, Like I think if it had been made a little bit And I think this might have been the producers and the editors maybe like wanting to see her away from a narrative of, um, a woman's like vagina was exposed, because that has been a thing on housewives, and I feel like they feel like it invades their privacy and I

really don't need a narrative of like whose pussy was out? Like I don't like it, like they did it with Erica Jay in a couple of years ago on Beverly Hills, and you could tell that it like really bothered her, that it was a topic of conversation. But I think that that because that's true that they've kind of learned from this and the editors didn't want to make it

as much of a thing. But I think ultimately, like the issue was it was a thing, and Brooks was responding to it, and so that's why I think it seemed like Brooks was making this issue in order to like stir the pot, when in reality, he was reacting to the fact that it happened, which Meredith confirmed on the reunion. She was like, yeah, it was a lot. Uh Meredith, Maybe I am a Meredith. I can't tell you enough. You really are. And it was so funny

to me. Everyone, Oh my god, readers. It was so funny because Bowen goes, I'm a gen, and I was like, you have way too much respect for silverware, glassware to ever throw it at a party. I wasn't proudly saying I'm a gen. I said I might be a gen. Unfortunately, you were the least gener explained to me how you're a gen that I when I get angry, I get angry. That's not even true. That's not even true. I'm exploring anger in therapy right now. It's very very interesting. That's

so interesting. What a window in this is therapy? Okay, I think it's time. Yeah, I was gonna say it feels time to do. I don't think so, honey, Which is I forget? It's some our one minute segment in which we go off on something in culture, right. I saw I don't think so honey written down and I was like, what is that? Okay, so I have something, you have something? Okay, this is Mount Rodders. I don't think so honey. As time starts now, I don't think

so honey. Monica rambo erased, okay, because the only thing that people are talking about on Twitter is I goth all all along, which I understand, but also, you know what else is happening all along? We're getting the origin story of Photon, Honey or Spectrum it is unclear. But all I'm saying is, we got this black woman who gets this unbelievable scene where she gets her powers in the sort of hex thing. And it was an unbelievable scene.

It was an artful studies. I found it to be emotional, and I thought it was well performed, and I thought Tiana Paris came to life like when she got her powers. And all I'm saying is, this is the origin story of one of the probably most important characters in the m C. You going forward and you go on Twitter and it was Agatha all along and it was Catherine Han And all I'm saying is examine it because we are getting the origin story of the most important female superhero.

And all over you were like, Agatha, Agatha, Agatha, no Monica, and that's one minute, no Monica, and I you know, we stand, we stand Katherine Han and we stand Agatha. All we stand the reveal. But all I'm saying is there was another thing that happened in the episode that was iconic and it was not being talked about, and it was that Monica Rambo finally got her powers. And if you follow the comics, you understand that this is a big, big, big, big big deal because she goes

on to like lead the Avengers. In the comics. She can she can see electromagnity, tisma, she can she can look at the waves, and you know that she's like got blue eyes. But I was like, I was like, what is it? And then I was reading about it. Apparently in the comics she can turn herself into energy. Yes, yes, yes, which I don't know how that works, but excited to find out to me too, girl, all right, and this is this feels like Bohen's ready. Oh I just got

an email from the Tellershift official store. Was you order my evermore hoodie? Is coming. Oh my god, we are getting a lot of messing. I think people need to do an ever more episode soon. Everyone is still on the evermore thing where they're like, we need like someone at works, like my friend was listening. My friend told me that you guys still need to do an ever more episode. I go, well, say it. Just because you say we need to do it does not mean we're

gonna do it. Okay, And this goes for guests as well. Okay, thank you for your ideas. We are not customer service. Some people are really banging the drum about us having certain people on it. It's like it actually most of the time, I'm like, don't, don't let to provide for you. How about this next week we have Rose DomU on. Okay, gross, so excited to talk about talk about a one division

and Taylor Stam. Maybe you'll getting maybe you'll get some We will be talking about everymore with we'll talk we'll talk about ever remember with Rose, but Rose truly, like always, I think she has a north star and in the culture, I think whatever Rose thinks he goes, maybe that's she is taste. You'll find out, you'll you'll find out. And we recommend everyone look up her interviews with Timmy shallow May she brings up she She asks him if he

likes moon Struck, and he says, I love Moonstruck. She has great interviews with Samahayak, with Amy Poehler and my Rudolph. She she's she has had some great, great, great interviews with some some folks, and we're going to talk with her about that next week next week. But before we get to next week, bohen Yang hasses out, don't think so, honey, do you have something prepared? I have something prepared. Love to hear it this, so honey, and his time starts now.

I don't think so, honey. Crime Seeing the Vanishing to see So Hotel that Sees the Hotel documentary it is pure drivel trash the way that it barely spends any time actually focusing on the death of Elisa Lamb, so upsetting, so unfortunate, and yet the documentary spends so much time on like the conspiracy, on like on like the voyeurism of true crime, and how it sort of has ballooned out of control, and and like how it has how

it tainted the whole investigation of Elisa Lamb. So that it sort of removes all the humanity from like this poor person who unfortunately passed away on the property. Like it goes into the sifting, terrible shallow analysis of like what skid row is and what it meant for, like what it could have possibly meant for the death that you might have gotten drugs from skin Row. It's it was truly such like pulpy bullshit, And it was so like the humanizing it was so disappointing, and I think,

like we're hitting some like critical mass with true crime stuff. Okay, that's my minutes. That's one minute. So basically you're saying that it was true crime about true crime. It was true crime where there was a layer where it was just so you would have It was very watchable, I'll say, but so much of it was like the sensationalism of

every way. It was just sensationalizing the death itself by being like, and here all the crazy things that have happened at this Theson hotel, all these serial killers and suicides and all this stuff, and skid Row is a thing, and she this girl might have gotten drugs from skid

Row and then had a like a bipolar episode. It was just like there was a way to present this story without going into and then it top and then like there's some valuable stuff about Yes, the voyeur is stick aspect of true crime, where like all of these web slutes were trying to solve the case as the investigation was happening, as the autopsy report was being put together, but then like it ruins this one person's life, but like I don't think we needed to see that, and

it's it's all like I don't know if any of it's useful, and I think we're hitting we're hitting up. It's like we're we're reverting back to like datelineing, like maybe it's always been this way and I've just checked out, but like it feels like a really weird anachronistic era of like covering grizzly deaths like this, where it's like, wait a minute, let's actually just like, yeah, try to present the facts and not have it be embellished in

like all this other nonsense. Yeah. I think that any time they figure out something is working, like uh, you're gonna get a mass and out of it. And with true crime that's actually kind of interesting and maybe harmful because it is removing the humanity once it's just like, oh, this thing works commercially, and now here's all of it.

But I think it's I think because it's got I got a lot of bad reviews and people are like this was so poorly handled that I think now hopefully we're at a point where people are like the people who make these shows are like, this is not working anymore, you know, like it's just anyway. I was talking about with Greta and she was like, it's so bad, and I was like, yeah, it's just like true trash. Did you just watch I care a lot yet No, I

hear it's I hear everyone's hating it. Well, like but people say, but people say Rosmond that she's good, but like that what it's about is like I don't know, but maybe we'll watch it and we'll talk about it

next week, because I'm sure Rose has watched it. Sure, I mean, I mean, I think we've like also turned the corner with Netflix where a lot of the program and Netflix is because there used to be a time when you would watch when a show would be in the conversation that was on Netflix, and you would go into it being like, well, it must be good. And

now I don't think that's true anymore. I think now every people are watching Netflix shows because they are in the conversation, but it's not there's no and there's no assumption going in that it's going to be quality. Oh yeah, I mean now it's it's it's well, it's literally how they it's how they do it. Now, it's just we're gonna push this thing to the front and everyone's gonna watch it, and that's their way of sort of controlling

what gets consumed. But it's like the Emily in Paris of it all, Emily and Paris is not good, but everyone watched it. Oh fucking I don't think it's only the h f p A because there's the whole thing that came out Emily in Paris, people like basically bribed them. Well, this has been happening since the beginning of time. Like, like the h f p A is a joke because it's an easy target because it's such a small body exactly,

and they can and have been bought forever. Like, so it's just kind of funny to see everyone like coming around to this now, Like whenever the Golden Globe nominations come out and people are like this, Oh nub I'm like, you guys, that just means that they didn't play the game, like it's fine, Like it's so cool to be snubbed by the hfp A. Like it just means it means you're not like literally going for it, like in terms of like buying these awards, like they don't know her,

Like there there's a reason why they're not in the egot, you know what I mean, They're They're not an actual reputable awards body. I always feel like if someone I like went to Golden Globe, I'm like yeah, and if someone doesn't, it's it's fine, You're fine. Yeah, It's not like the Oscars are the Emmys, which are actual reputable awards bodies with a large voting base, you know what

I mean. Whatever, Anyway, anyway, what an app truly freewheeling, we kind of there were There was many a winding turn, wouldn't you say, Matt, I would say that every day is a winding road, is a winding road, and with that, every day winding get a little bit closer, every day winding day get a little to hear that song listen to the end credits of the movie, say it I don't know Aaron Brockovich Charon brock Bits. Oh my god, do you work next time? Alright, bye h