"Laughin n' Whackin" (w/ Matt & Bowen)

then we can each feel bad about feeling bad. Yeah, comparatively. So, I was voted off of Survivor Underscore Quarantine just a short while ago. I'm so sorry, and um, it's okay, it's okay. Um, let's just say it was a great personal exercise to step into my favorite game of Survivor. You're you're giving us the exit interview right now, in the full exit interview, I mean essentially, like this really just happened, like a blood is still very much oh

my gosh, wet, wet and all over blood. Um, let's say my my carcasses not dry in the game of Survivor. Although I am on the jury. Yes, you first member of the jury. I'm the first member of the jury. Was the I got voted out in the merge and I should just let everyone know that doesn't know. This is an online version of Survivor called Survivor Underscore Quarantine that I entered because I was asked to do so.

I definitely mixed things up, definitely stirred things up. Let's just say I was polarizing villain type like coach, like coaching here is versus villains. Wow, good for you, Bone that you're finally just at the place where you can throw out these characters names, just toss them off. You can just toss him off. And I don't know, I feel like, um, you know, I believe it was actually Beyonce that said, you know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation. It's actually rule a culture number

twenty two. You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation. And I think I caused a lot of conversation too early, made myself a big old get and got voted out. And now some of the girls are upset in the comments of the Instagram that I've been voted out because I'm now finding out I was a fan favorite, and you know, people are there definitely this is back and forth in the comments section about me, which really is all you ever, all you want? I mean,

you're yeah, you're okay. So in this case, you're more of like a Russell then maybe not even Russell. I don't think that Russell is a big statement. Well, Russell is a huge statement, and you say a lot of things when you call me Russell. Um but and I think that you should take that back immediately and take it back. I was polarizing. I think I was a polarizing villain in the way that let's say, maybe even parvity is. I was gonna ask what was your strategy

going in? And I had a feeling it would be very parvity esque. See, I couldn't really engage with anyone in real life, so I couldn't like, you know, really be everything that is part of the next to someone under the shelter. There's no there's no thinking letting all the boys think that that they can come to this yard, but really I'm in the yard with the girls. There was none of that. It was all like it was

very the circle. Actually, like playing Survivor online really kind of you were up to your own devices in terms of your online avatar. And I guess that my online avatar just ain't that trustworthy because I got the boot right when they all could have a clear shot at me. Darn And can I say something, This is a personal loss for me too, because you had picked me to be your loved one and the loved one challenge. You

were gonna come on. You were going to come on, and you were going to be my friends and family, and it was going to be I think a moment for a survivor underscore quarantine that they will not not get to have. That's okay, That's okay. Now that's actually why my day hasn't been so great because my life ended on this virtual, fake version of a reality show.

But what what's going on with you? Oh? Nothing? I just um, I you know, I just I just have complicated feelings about this season ending, but of of of SNL, which is why I don't have to get into. But the thing that compounded it was I started finally pulled the trigger started normal people on Hulu, and man, I mean I was. I was resisting it for a while because the book really flayed my ass and started it and I'm like only three episodes in and I'm like, okay,

I wanna I want to be in love. And I'm just like I'm just like very like westful and melancholic, and I'm just like, oh, man, like, look at this this is Isn't this so beautiful? I totally get it. I totally get it. There's nothing like a well crafted sort of romantic television show to make you feel the feels you gotta. I think you should start with the show because I think I think student and I try to talk you into reading the book last year and you have interest, I think you would enjoy the show

a lot. It's very quick to get through twenty five minute episodes, twelve episodes. You're really enjoying it in the way that it's it's affecting you, it's affecting me, and it's like and I mean, there's a lot to be said. There's a lot of um chatter online about how like grounded the sex scenes are and it's a lot of sex scenes no gay but um but I don't like that. But know what it's it's it's really you know, the heterosex is good and when it makes the homo's horny.

And that's actually really culture number nine, you know, is good when I'm making the most horny. Can I tell you something that actually shook me before I got voted out of srivor quarantine. Actually something else happened today that really shook me. Oh my god. So I actually I did. I I took to What I did was I took to porn just get out some some anxiety before for everything was going to go down. Someone I thought was a strictly heterosexual porn star I actually saw enthusiastically performed

a gay sex scene. Now I can't if I were to look at a porn star like, I don't know what. I've never seen a heteropornce a male porn star in my life. Who was he? How did you know who he was before? Well, here's the thing, Bowen, I actually something about me that I've just customer. Watch straight porn. It's very kids are all right, it's you you watch the other side. I enjoy straight porn, Yeah I do. I like it. I think it's wonderful. It gets me

off in a certain way. I I think I just there's something about the enthusiasm that is a female porn star just sort of when this happens. I was given the note that I'm peeking in terms of audio, but I apologize. I apologize to um engineer Doug because I'm going to do this. I like when sort of this is the sound that gets made by a female porn star, like I love like yeah, and I sort of I sort of want that because I know the pleasure is so insane, or at least the performed pleasure is so

insane that you really don't get from gay porn. No gay man will ever lay pipe down enough for you to sound like a full R two D two. Yeah, like R two D two in the middle of thank You, That's what it is. It's beaker from the Muppets. It's are two D too in Jeopardy. It's that sound that you kind of get when you see a female porn star, for lack of better words, spinning like a top on the dicks of these male porn stars. And there was

this one guy who was so hot bone. And also it provided comedy because comedy, it provided comedy, and so often the heterosexual porns that I watched do provide comedy because there are storylines, and I love to watch these The women act like, you can come into my nursery school because all the kids. All the kids aren't here because it's Saturday. And if you come in, shut the jar behind you because you don't know if kids will

come in on a Saturday. Like these really crazy narratives that like just lead to fucking where I'm like, I'm fascinated by the narrative, but also I want the ross X And this provided both because it wasn't a narrative, but the situation was it's the specific channel that I watched on Foreign Hub called Hot Guys Fuck, So it's

heterosexual sex, but the focus is on the man. Yeah, okay, And there's this guy that they have and you can tell they did some sort of deal with him or he was like, I'll do this, but you have to plug my insta throughout. So his name. I'm just gonna plug his insta right here. His Insta handle is at d Underscore red seven. I think it's like that. But while he's fucking this girl, of course, who was a white girl with dreads. Of course, he is screaming at

the camera follow me. I don't believe this. I will send you I'll find the like and send you like and so this guy to me, I was laughing while I was jerking. I don't believe any I was laughing my ass off, l a oh while this is happening, And it was also laughing and Wacken laughing in Wackon front Runner from the title of Up Laughing in Wackon.

I was enjoying myself so and then I literally keep going back to the video because the guy is so hot, and also I think it's so funny when he's like screaming at the camera to follow him, and then his Insta handle will pop up on the bottom and you better, you better believe I smashed the following button. Oh my god. You have to imagine my thrill when I saw him this morning enthusiastically eating ass and fucking a man. Great, lovely.

I'm sure he hasn't only fans where you can get like more like you know, lo fi contente And are you subscribing to any only fans? Are I'm i'm i'm I have a little rotation going. It's great. Do you want to raise anyone up and sort of like signal boost anyone? Sure? I mean, speaking of speaking of bisexual people, are are do you know? Do you know Remy rem he was on are Either One and he's like he's like he's friends with thy Sunderland. He's at all of

ties events. He's lovely. You follow his only events. He because he just started when you know, post post covid, because he's like, you know, like nightlife people basically like are out of work. So this is my way of just like doing and he like has it pretty even split of like, um, you know all archival stuff obviously, but like just footage of him just with with this woman and sis men and it's pretty. It's great. It's like really like expanded my horizons. It is this too

personal to tell, not at all. I mean we're here, but it's funny to like see like you know, like a friend, like something, not a friend, but like something. I mean Remy's a friend, you know what I'm saying, like a basically acquaintance ship lovely person. But I mean, oh, I'm watching him have sex. We both know Tine Hanson and I hate I've been a fan of that young man for a very long time and continue to be

a fan, continue to be a fan. So it's interesting, Um, you know who else has an only fans who I haven't. I haven't paid for it yet, but they're they're providing us with a ton of content on their Twitter. You know who I'm gonna say, I'm talking about the Vixen, Oh, the vix I didn't know the Vixen had an only fans. Vixen has an only fans and it's wonderful, wonderful content. A little cutie, not little big cutie. Um things, huge cock,

couple of things. Um gosh. I was writing. I was writing something with Julio the other week and like, I wanted to drop an only fans reference, but then he was like, I don't think people the general public knows enough about only fans. And then wouldn't you know, Savage re mix drops Beyonce herself mentions it in her verse, and I'm like, okay, well now it's like now it's like Zeitgeist, truly, like mainstream. Everyone knows when an only fan say is if he herself is like referencing it.

So I love that. So we've really moved forward in the culture during this fucking nightmare. But then also, if you love hetero sex and a story, I mean, this is that's an normal people, You're gonna love it. And god, you you really have to Okay, here's here's the deal. Second episode, Um, not a spoiler. They consummate their you know attraction the first time they have sex with each other.

It's episodes of twenty four minutes long. The sex scene is at nine the first nine minutes of the second episode. It like takes like it feels so lived in and it feels so and like there's this article and Vulture about it about how like the movement coach they had to work with the movement coach who was like an intimate like they hired a move like an intimacy coordinator to like coach. These two actors Palm Mescal and Daisy Um,

oh god, Daisy Daisy Ridley. No, she's They're both fantastic, but like they like had to like basically do like et w ship like experimental theater way and stuff like rolling around on the like movement stuff. And then they like you can tell like it's so like real. I love it. It's why like you would really love it and and and the readers would love it. I'm sure I'll be into it and all the readers are so because I'm telling you something, there is something to what

you're saying about like I am much more turned Dawn. Well, it's like it's just it's like one side of one side of the other. It's like I either want amateur stuff or I want like intense, like broad fantasy, you know what I mean, Like don't exist anywhere in the middle unless it's going to be this channel hat guy, because totally even Sewan Cody is like a little too in between. It's trying to like it's it's still like has like the Veneer of gayer Pay, which is like

outdated at this point. I can't really do gayer Pay. I I need I needed to be like gays very two thousand sex very two thous Yeah, I just I'm not interested in Like this is so funny for me to say, like one of the hosts and creators of game show, but like I'm not actually interested in like straight men trying and I like, I genuinely don't care

about that. For me, it's like either let's have comically fake passion and let's do let's do porn, or I want this sounds weird, but like I wanted to seem like this is really what you do, and I I almost feel like crazy for watching it because it's you know what I mean, Like I love amateur porn. When you see them disengage and like switch positions like okay, throw this pillar under your back, It's like, oh, this is like this is real, the real thing. It's cinema

very tae. Yeah, And I feel like that is I think sort of connected to what you're saying with this show. Um,

normal people. Um. That's why. Another one of the reasons why I love Girls so much is because it kind of showed regular sex in a way that to me was like hotter than watching whatever sex they're gonna pretend happens on like Grey's Anatomy, where you could feasibly like just after a thirteen hour ship hop in the on call room and have you know, fine sex, like you wouldn't smell like an ass and you're you know, or

their hair looks at me. Remember like there was there's there's one sex team between Annie and Max Steamings three where they were sucking and like it was it was a good it was like a well done sex scene.

But like Addison's hair was like fucking styled down. Yeah, Meanwhile, she'd be smelling like ship her posy to be running away, like forget it, forget Okay, that's what I'm also watching Survivor too, like whenever there's like cuddling happening on Survivor or like anything's happening, where like I think something happened with Ozzie and Amanda, I'm like, Azzian Amanda would have

to be insane. And we're gonna ask part of you about this when she comes on about sex on Survivor, because you'd have to be cool coo banana in front of those people, to fuck in front of those people,

to freck in front of cameras. You remember the show was watched by mill Right and also not for nothing, but you probably smell like a damn yeah, there's like an old factory barrier of entry, like truly, Like it's like I would never be so horny that I could like forgive someone smells like if everyone smells like absolute dog do do, I'm like, I'm not gonna funk. I'm sorry,

I'm sorry. But also another thing is if you don't have of like the right kind of toilet paper and the right kind of like sort of like the like hygiene material, sex is actually not a good idea health wise, you know, what I mean, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right here, I'm saying. For heteros, it's like, you know, and that's what this is why their sex is more legitimate. Just kidding, Um, they like like the women like naturally

lubricate and like stuff. You know, it's like, we for forget it if it's two gays having sex on Survivor? Could you imagine? I think that Honestly, that's another reason why I want to go on. It's because I want to be the first. I want to have I want to be the first first gay to have sex. I want to be the first person not only to have sex, but have filthy gay illegitimate sex on Survivor. Illegitimate. Yeah yeah, because remember, hetero sexual sex is legitimate. Sex sex is not.

We are kidding everyone, We're so kidding. Okay, let's okay. Should we should we pivot a survivor or? We've been asked specifically to address one topic that is not survivor. Do you know what? Do you know what that is? Do you remember what that is? You'll have to remind me. I have plenty to say about Survivor, but I want to do this first. I also have to say and

the top right hand on my screen. I'm getting all these insta and text notifications that everyone is very upset about me being voted off of Survivor Quarantine and my, I don't think so honey is going to be about a well known figure in comedy who was a part of my elimination. Oh so I know who. I mean, you've talked about her, We've actually lifted her up on this podcast, and for her to treat me this way

is she deserves a public reckoning. Oh my god, I don't think when was the last time we burned a bridge like this? I can't remember. Let's just say that, Um, someone has come for me and I'll be coming for them. And I actually this is an open invitation for that person to come on this very podcast and we can actually let her know what's what and she can look at me and my face over zoom but for a real outside of the game, and she can explain to

me what her damn reasoning was. But that's going to be after my I don't think, so Honey on this episode later. Okay, so you you were just you were getting into some Sandard Diaz twine like parlance there. I mean, the way that you're fired up at the way that's Andrews gets fired up, high bowing it, says Sandra from Survivor. I heard that you're a huge fan of the show, and you know, Queen stays queen. We keep winning every time I go in, except the last two times didn't

really go my way. It didn't really go my way. Your friend Matt loves you, he says he's been podcasting with you free for years now. That's really great. I'm you know, the Edge of Extinction was really hard, and you know, Survivors heating up winners at war. We definitely have a lot of winners still competing. Not me, though. I went on a vacation to you know, different parts of the world, which they are nice enough to let you do when you get voted off and you know

you don't make it far enough. And I went to an amazing store where I bought a doll that was a little bit bigger than a you know, not a small doll, but not a big doll, where I had to check it on the flight back to you know where I live in America. So, oh, I hope, I hope you're taking some time to enjoy Survivors. This is the Queen's Day's Queen Sassy Sandra, your friend Matt loves you and audios Audios. By the way, everyone, what we're

doing is we're doing Sandra dis Twine cameo memes. If you want the best cameo of your life, you gotta get Sandra ds Twine from Survivor to send you one because they are on point, they are long. They are also always advertisements for the CBS show Survivor. Parvety also does really good cameos. Oh I love Parvety does cameos in a way that makes me want to do cameos. Does that make any sense? I'm like, oh, this like she's making it look fun and easy. I did a

ton of cameos Sady actually for Mother's Day. Oh that's sweet. It's good easy money for for those of us who aren't on UM huge NBC. Uh my god shows, I can, I can? I tell you. I was like, I want to do I want to do cameo Like when when COVID first hit, I was like when when Quarantine was first topping, was like, I thought you were going to start. I wanted to start, but then it was to start

so I can raise money for for for stuff. But I was like, whatever, I sound so well, it's not never too late, and I do I do, I do PRPR shot it down of course. Oh you're not allowed to do it. Parts are so fun. Parts are great. Parts are great. I don't know if I can do an impression, because here's my impression of parvs Cancus. Actually ready, yeah, Hamers, it's a parody. And um, I heard that you're having a really kind of tough day in quarantine, and I

think that what you should think of his mindfulness. And this is a mantra that I do sometimes to focus myself. I hear my baby crying, so I have to do it really fast. Um it's this. And are you breathing in through your nose and out of your mouth? Than you're doing it right. Okay, thanks for watching from every and keeping it on the air all these years. Okay,

that was really good. Can that was fine? That was that was God Connect tickets tab Yeah, you can do it on okay, Hamer, is that it's your friend party from Survivor? So good? This is so good. I heard that you're a little bit of a Survivor head. Um, well, maybe you can get up to some fun um this quarantine, you know, sneak something in there um anyway, Mary and Williamson always says, is it necessary? Is it kind? Is

it important? Yes? Okay, you've been watching her YouTube videos too, all right, So now now now that I now that there's no more of Poverty left to watch, have you done the same thing I've done? Where I've now fallen into content. I fall into her content. She gives great, great speeches, she's she's a live coach, as we know. I've also been watching a lot of Sandrids Twine interviews

as well. Those are my two girls. I mean, my girls are obviously Sandra and Parverty because I'm not a true idiot, like obviously I'm with it and with the times. And I know that if you're going to be following people, you have to be following Sandrads Twine and Poverty. Because with Sandra you always get him real, honest to godship talk. She is truly the realist one. I hate Russell. I I hate Russell and he knows I hate him, and

I think he's bad. He's a bad person, and I think you should never be allowed on the show again. Queen stays Queen and his wife hates him. She's being real nice to him now, but I think that's a facade. His wife hates him. I actually know his wife hates him, and it's not it's not, it's not. It's not difficult to see. And how could you like him? He's bad? And she's saying I love that she's saying this, like while he's next her. That's yes, and it's amazing. It's amazing.

She's literally an iconic person in film and television and very happy that we have her. And then the other thing is with Parvety I now I follow her on Instagram. Yes, I really appreciate her content there. I did actually a whole breathing exercise with Partment where it was amazing and

really worked. And she so she is an We're gonna have her on the show next week and she's gonna talk about her children's book on the otter and so it's basically it's like teaching kids and young people and like encouraging mothers to mindfulness and also using these yoga breathing techniques. Because you know the reason she was able to raise her hand up for six hours in that challenge, which is unbelievable, but she she essentially says on her YouTube channel that she left her body and so I

really want to like talk to her about this. Yeah, it's it's beautiful. I mean, like the like the extreme examples are like, um, some like some Buddhist kid, um sitting in one place for like two months, no eating, no drinking. I should also say she's now my phone background Wow, part circa circa here, circa Fans versus favorite, circa Micronesia. This is I believe a picture of her from it looks like heroes versus villains. Actually this is

like a very lived in, knowing poverty moment. I was just gonna say, what you get with her is sort of like sort of like ANSD yoga techniques, but also like very good entry level stuff. And she has amazing videos on her YouTube channel, which I wish she'd do more of it, which are life coaching type things. Yeah. Yeah. And then with Sandra, it's just pure ship talk like that bitch on the street you know, did you did you? Did you watch them little phone interview? They did both

of them. Um where it was it was it was before Winners at War. No, yeah, it was before winners had been announced. And like someone was they were on the phone together with the interviewer. The interviewers like Parverty like what what would make you want to compete again and Survivor? And then it's just Parverty and Sandra like screaming at each other over the phone, and Party is like, well, Sandra keeps saying that she's the queen, but like, you know,

like blah blah, it's amazing. And then then Sandra's real like queen stays queen blah blah blah. It's so well. My favorite thing ever that ever happened on Survivor is spoiler alert. After you find out Sandra ds Twine wins heroes versus villains, She's she's at the reunion wearing a little crown, and Jeff Probes goes, so, Sam Drew, what does this mean? And Sandra just goes, it means I'm the queen. And that's a little tiara, a little tiara, a tiny little tiara, and she says, it means I'm

the queen. And so that's where Queen's Day's Queen was born from, and she presides over all of Survivors to this day. But I want to ask you because while we've been off air, you've sort of really caught up with a whole bunch of survivor And what are your broad impressions now before we get into what everyone's been asking us to comment, Okay, yes this is perfect, um my broad my broad thoughts are it's it's not what

I expected in terms of here's what I'll say. I so respect and admire and I'm so impressed by how it has maintained a tone. Does that make sense for these for twenty years, for forty seasons where it's like it's not about like it's not a reality show where it's trying to get like people to lose their temper or lose their ship and like no snipe at each other.

It's like, so this goes without saying, but it's so like strategic, it's so like you really it's such a cerebral thing to watch as a viewer as as a way of keeping up with the chess pieces. And it really is this three D chess thing where like, oh my god, like there's there's just a million different strategies you can approach it with, um, all of them probably

equally viable. It's like, really, I'm just like so so so so so like amazed by how um like manifold and complex it is, like of a show it is, and how it's kept that going for so long and I love it. Well, it's really changed over time, like this is actually gonna be we've been fools this whole episode long, but to really kind of make a cultural

analysis on this show. When it began, it really was about strangers learning how to survive together, and it was sort of about, you know, large narratives over the episodes would be did that person sneak in some beef journeys from outside of the show, Um, how are we going to get the fire started? Etcetera. And so over time it's sort of moved away from the survival aspect towards being a very very specific show about social gameplay and

social strategy. But like it's a it's it's a show that's about how people behave under artificial or organic or you know whatever, Like under any kind of social structure where they feel like they're like backed into a corner in a social situation or in a physical situation where

they feel like they have the upper hand. It's like watching people behave I mean, like people like you know, I mean the the the direct comparison that people make all the time is that it's very like Lord of the Flies in a way, but like it's it's um it's interesting. I will say, it's also fun to think about the ways in which like a game like this kind of somehow pushes like ideological things to the forefront, Like implicit bias among like white players is very apparent.

I think I I sent you that article. Um So, that article was specifically looking at a season of the show Millennials Versus gen X, which um Zeke Smith was Smith, So that was his first season who we know from outside there being a character on the show, So that show was specifically or that season was specifically being looked at under that lens. And it really does show you how attitudes outside of the show do kind of creep in.

And it's actually been interesting to watch the show over the past like four or five years, because it almost seems like there is an awareness of these things in the culture. And so because of the cultural awareness of these things like racial bias implicit and explicit, like um, you know, sexism like transported, yeah, exactly, like the me too mindfulness of me too was a thing in the last five six years, those things get thought about and

manipulated in ways they did not ten twelve years ago. So, for example, you put a season like cook Islands, or as the fandom have called it, Race Wars, you put that on, now, I think you get a much uglier season than you would have. Right, you're right, And yet somehow, like a lot of the conversation around this is like, oh, well back then it was worse or whatever, But like I mean, it's just more inflamed now than it was, Like it's it's it's a different it's a different sensitivity

now than it was back in two. Sorry, yeah, yeah, when do you know the ins and outs of what happened with the whole me Too scandal on the on the last sort of sort of not not not in every detail bit. So basically what happened was very very early on in the season, a contestant, Kelly, came forward and said that she was um uncomfortable with the way

she was being touched by another, uh contestant, damn. And she confided in this two other women on her tribe, and she kind of said to producers as well, and producers broke the fourth wall and on the season you can see them checking in with her and saying, well, you know that if you're uncomfortable, you can tell us and we'll do something about it, and she gives a verbally s etcetera. However, in the narrative of the season, women that she told about this use it against her

and she gets eliminated. After that happens, he actually is pulled from the game because he tried something with a crew member on the way back from a tribal council. But at that point this girl had already been eliminated, and a large narrative up to her elimination was these

other women using against her her accusation. So it's very interesting because without the conversation in the mainstream, does this play out the way it would have or did and what are the differences there because it's not the first time this has happened on the show. And then you get into this argument around um, whether or not Survivor really is like a microcosm for society, like as it happens, UM. But I mean, yeah, it's it's it's really, it's really

it's really a lot to think about, you know. I think ultimately like that is why I love the show too. Is because while ugly things happen, weird things happen, you know, there's moments of triumph and despair. It is ultimately a tool to see, you know, this person acted this way. Let's examine that why you know? And you know something that's watching the show now and binging the show now, you see how much more difficult it is for a POC person to enter a situation like that because they

have to negotiate behavior ten times more. Like someone like you don't haven't seen this season, I recommend that you watched the season Millennials versus gen X, But there is a fantastic contestant named Mikhaelo who's a young black woman and you kind of see her have to negotiate her behavior because the second she does something, she's immediately the angry black woman and is one out and you know, um, it's it's just very interesting to see different contestants grapple

with their perceived self as opposed to their true self, and that that's one of the reasons why the show is so interesting and that adaptation over time has been so has been so interesting to watch. It's some gosh and like, I don't know if this specifically applies to Surree but like from what I from what people tell me, They're like, well, it does have a problem. It has had a historically problem with painting like a black person or a black woman specifically, it is like lazy, like

and so like does this does that specifically? So the way that like you can apply that to someone like Surree Fields, one of the most amazing contestants players of the game. Her whole her whole art is that she

was like she she was watching from her couch. Like people always bring up how she she was the woman on the couch and then she did it, and then she was scared of leaves, and now she can do all these physical challenges and she's like a force to be reckoned with, like I can you wait at against Like okay, but at the like it's still the absolute

value that it's still she was lazy. She was perceived as lazy, right, and so we see what what is a lazy and unhelpful narrative, which is which is actually being used by the show to show her growth, But it's still began from something unhelpful totally and then I and racist, it's not it's not completely one to one

but that was my whole thing with PG. I was like, she's she's a little too plotty, she's like a little too nefarious, and like I told her this myself, I was like I had because in my inst story where I talked about that someone center, I was like, I really didn't like her first, so I was like, I have to explain this to her because like I had to check my own implicit advice um on this in terms of this like racial self loathing, let's call it, where I'm like, I see an Asian person and Asian

women on screen, She's like she's playing the game the way she should be playing it. But then my it immediately translates to me another Asian person even as or she's or she's like dragon lady, or she's like, you know, like a little too like devious, and I'm like, whoa

that that kind of sucked me up. And then the arc beautifully turns into this thing where she like fucking stays in way longer than people are people expect her to, and really really endears herself to a lot of people, earned many fans, and like I said before, is voted back into another season by the fans. You know, It's interesting when you say that, because with the gay contestants, I immediately something inside me doesn't take them seriously. I'm

like that that fool, you know what I mean. Like, and it's just in interesting because that is something that's coming from inside the house. Because because two of the winners, in fact, the star one maybe most iconic contestant who created the the alliance that was Richard Hatch and one of the winners again since then, Todd Herzog from China,

an incredible plotter, an incredible social strategist. But the way that the show frames them and the way that I perceived them as someone with an implicit bias, even though I too am gay, is he's never gonna win. They call him like they're going through everyone's like um occupations in the very beginning, and it's like he's the flight attendant. He's the flight attendant, not only that gay Mormon flight attendant. Meanwhile, they don't call Denise straight lunch lady, you know what

I mean. Like, it's it's just so interesting, like sexuality and race are qualifiers to these people but not everyone else. This sounds maybe kind of psychonic, but it's the way that I feel whenever I see people be like Bowen plays gay Asian characters only exclusively on S ANDL and I'm like, well, that's because you flatten the context completely to only really register those things about me. But I like, I'm not going to like change that on screen. You know.

It's like I can choose to address it or not address it. And also it's this book that I'm read that i'd finished, Minor Feelings, An Asian American Reckoning by Kathy Park Kong. She has this whole essay in the book where she started at the Iowa Writer's Workshop and face this frustration where she was like, they tell you to write what you know, so I feel like I

have to write about Asian stuff. But if I were to say, write about nature, let's say, the feeling around that is everyone being like, well, why is this Asian girl writing about nature? Why isn't she writing about Asian stuff? I don't know it's but this is all to say that, like survivor is or shock test for this, like you you you you see what you want to see out

of it. I think that you know it's you in nature to see something and want to know what it is to want to identify it to want to be able to figure something out, and so I think that is something with you on Saturday Night Live. It's like people see you on screen in this context and a lot of people don't know what to do with it. So so what they do is they say, that's the gay Asian, that's what he does, and it's unfair, and it is. It's I love playing the gays. I love

playing the Asians. I would say in terms of like if we're gonna split this up like distribution wise, like I played, I've played characters who were like the sketch doesn't like revolve around those identities either. But it's like, no, it's like people regis, Yeah, people will see that as oh he's gaying Asian. But I would hope that people would understand how insane it is to say about you he always plays Asians. I'm saying, right, right, it's not ny,

but that's what we're saying. But this is where we're saying. It's like it's like, you know, it's like we we kind of just like very quickly as a way to manage expectations about people that other human beings, we just collapse them down to like certain things gay flight attendant? Did you watch um the So I'm about to binge all of Winners at War very quickly, even starting tonight. So have you started? Have you started? I? I started the first episode? Okay, So I'm also going to start

the first episode. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. But we will we should, yes, we should say that, like you again again, there's a huge gap in sort of like fandom and understand we're just coming at this as full on newbies neophytes, and we love it and when we hope, because I'm getting a lot of people being like, oh god, Bowen's like Bowen has an opinion on a season that's like fifteen years old. I'm like, yeah, but like,

we gotta start somewhere anyway, keep going. It's still a piece of art, and it's a piece of entertainment that is up for cultural critique. And I don't actually maybe you guys forgot what this podcast is, but it's but this is what the podcast is, and this is what we do, and this is what we like to do together. So we're just going to continue doing that. If that's okay with you, Okay, if that and I think it's

okay with the vast majority of um. But I was going to ask you if you watch the special, the clip that I that I said, you did you see that? You'll by the way, Who's Daddy and King King King? Who won Cook Islands? Did you see so fucking hot? And like part of I think one of the most iconically hot scenes in history, which was him and Ozzy getting the mud off of their body in the bucket, that was truly cannon. And if you want something to absolutely um like you know, pushing pushing the mud off

of their like washboard altums. Oh my god, you but did you see that? He acknowledged this? He said on his original season he felt the need represent his community and and you also think about the way he played the game very much numbers driven, very cerebral, maybe the most cerebral of all time. Respectable. He had to be respectable as an Asian man, right, And I think that that in this interview where he says, the first time I played, I felt I had to play a certain way.

He did it successfully, but it makes you think, like I don't think he could have played a better game. But if he were to be quote unquote free of that thing, of I have to represent my community, if you will. What else would his game of looks like? What will it look like this time? You know? It's interesting, It's so interesting. It's kind of the reason why all of that tribe, the Puka tribe for that, the the

initial Asian tribe on Cook Islands. Um kind of like railed on Cowboy a little bit so Cowboys this um Vietnamese a sort of older man on the tribe who like will like pull out, like will do like kind of hackneed Asian jokes or do the accent or they were they were not feeling it, and the rest of the tribal members were like, you gotta stop and like totally totally valid response reaction, right, but it's like for the first season that's pretensed upon race, like of course,

especially Asian people are gonna be like, we gotta like come off okay because you because that Asian community would be the least represented by a wide margin media absolutely, and and even on Survivor absolutely, I mean definitely there had not been that many Asian contestants. I love that Yaman was the originator of the fake idol love it is. That's genius. I think that's one of the most genius moves in Survivor. Yes, especially when you can create one

that looks real. Yes, I mean like and there's it's nothing better than watching someone present a fake idol as a tribal council and then Jeff being like, this is not a thing. Yeah, that's great and we should show it out. Queen Eliza from from Micronesia who played a fake idol that she goes okay, well, then I Assie has it, I mean amazing, But then she went on the jury and was iconic on the jury, potentially cultural canon Eliza's performance on the Micronesia jury, giving you every

jaw dropped, every eyebrow raised, every like googly eye. Yes, we're very in it with Survivor. We're going to be watching all of winners at war and then Parverty is coming on next week and we will be discussing it with her. And then for everyone that hasn't been as into the Survivor discussion, don't worry. We will be moving forward in our cultural discourse. But this is a big moment for Survivor, and it's a big moment in both Bowen and I was quarantines. It's been like a thing

we've enjoyed. So thank you for bearing with us if you're not necessarily a reality TV person. But we are loving it. We're loving it. We're loving it. Um. Okay, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. Okay, we're back, Matt. We're specifically asked to mention and to talk about one thing that's happened in the culture in the past, in the past week. I mean, it's only been a couple of days. Um, and there's a there's a bunch of other stuff I want to talk about. Um,

we don't have to talk about it? Should we talk about the adult stuff? Now? That's that's your tricky Well, here's the thing. I think that we have to talk about it. But I think that, like I understand your hesitation and even bringing it up, and I actually think that it is a really it's tough to talk about because anytime a well known person reappears on the world stage and they look really different, you would say, oh that that there's a large difference there. This is where

it's tricky. It is because you have to sort of as someone who's you're a fan, you have to change the way that you may have always responded to this, which is like with concern for her, which is with um,

you know, judgment of her. Because something that I have been woken up to in the whole narrative on Adele's weight is when you, and especially when men, gay men, straight men, anyone who's looking through the male gaze, when you are discussing having an opinion on women's weight in the public eye, that is an attempt to control that woman's weight. That is an attempt to control the narrative around a woman's weight. And that is patriarchy. That is toxic.

And so you want to have like a sort of reaction to the new Adele, you know by all means like she is the new Adele. This is what she looks like. Now, I think that we all can register that it's different. But when you come out and say she's did it looked like this? Or she should look like that, what you're doing, I think is attempting to control her body. Yes, not to tie it back to survivor. But the way we said survivor is a roar track test.

It's not I'm not saying that this this this is journey with Adele is the same thing, but it's it will like be reflective service in some way for to draw out a very specific world view you have as someone who's like, well, her divorce is doing like this is her divorce and she's really dealing with it poorly.

It must be exactly you're like, wait a minute, that's crazy, that's that's that's actually psychotic and it but it's a way to but it's it's also another sort of um variation on just collapsing context and arriving at this like wild narrative about like well she's you know, starving herself or she's like not doing this in a healthy way. It's like it's it's the only only thing you can say about this is that to be a woman is

to be imprisoned. Like that's all it is. And I think that that is what's arriving out of this whole moment, is that it really doesn't matter who you are. If you're a woman, your appearance is going to be scrutinized, torn apart. She could not have won, honestly, the only winning here would be for her to never have been seen again. And is that what you want? I don't think that's what you want. I understand the reactions that

everyone is having. But I do think that after everything we've been through as a culture over the past, you know, in a public way a few years, but for women hundreds thousands of years, we have to say at this point like, no, you know what, we're actually going to be better about this. Let's be better about this and not make her feel insane either way, because there's so many more interesting conversations to have, and it's it's it's obvious is that it ate up the whole narrative, the

whole cultural narrative totally. But it's just like I do think we have to ask ourselves to be more responsible about the way, like, don't worry about the message that she's sending to to other women. Worry about why it's a message, right, you know what I mean, we carry the message from seeing it to the ears of let's say,

young girls or other women. Don't reinforce something negative. I mean, yeah, at this point, it's like the damage has been done quote unquote, where it's like the reaction was so it was just so strong that like you're like, oh god, I guess like we're we haven't really progressed in anyway around like this. It's for some it reminds me of Rene's ll worker. Yes, it's not quite the same thing, and like that was specifically about like her face, um,

and not about weight. But it's like it's it's about appearance. It's about a woman's physical appearance. It's taking her narrative from her and and that is wrong everyone, it's wrong to do. And you know what, you might even have something to say about, you know, the way we've talked about things on this podcast, but of course because guaranteed a yes, we have been wrong about the way we've

spoken about people. And we are men, and we are fully we are we're we're executioners in the project of patriarchy, and we are also like we're man like like like that is like it's an implicit thing about us. We're

like that that makes us bad, you know. And I would say that it is an opportunity for a growing moment for everyone to be able to say and I think I disagree that that like the damage has already been done because I think that one way we can be helpful right now in discussing it is by saying, let's change the way that historically we may have spoken about this, because we know what it does to women. We know that it makes women feel like ship you

guys like it. We we can't do this. It's so much harder to be a woman or just female presenting or you know, let's not contribute to pain high readers, it's bowing. So in this half of the episode, Matt and I talked about the Allison Roman controversy. But we just wanted to disclaim that we recorded this the day before Alison Roman issued an apology via her Twitter and screenshots of her word processor of choice. So that is

some background for you. Okay, enjoy, Okay. So this is the actual thing that people want us to address, and it is also I it is also about how femininity is a prison. I think so so people people really wanted us to talk about the Alison Roman snaffo, not snaffing. What would you call you why? I would call it a snaff oo? You're doing you're you're doing a long

a sound. Okay, I would call it a snaff But but the fact of the matter is, um, this was something that was definitely a feud online and and I think it's another interesting conversation. Yes, it's very interesting the

way you can boil it down is. You know, Allison Roman was essentially talking shit about Chrissy Tugan, saying that she was a sellout for having a product line and Marie Condo, let's not forget, and throwing in Marie Condo and being like, these women are sellouts and I don't aspire to be like them and the way that they've

decided to roll out their business and business. And Alison Roman was then sort of dragged by Chrissy Teagan who said, Wow, this really hurts me as someone who really likes you and even signed on too ep a show you were doing, um and it really sucks that I'm being attacked by this person. I respect. It really ruined my day today, you know, it caused a whole fervor online. Yeah, I mean it's can we objectively said, I mean, she was

just she was just talking ship. But it's like in a way that in a way that like probably seems casual or to her she's probably been there, she doesn't have like she was kind of priding herself on not having like like media manager or like people who were like told her what to say in in in these situations.

Perhaps I don't know the full the full context of this, but like she basically was like, Wow, these women are sellouts and then caps off the interview by being like, I'm working with a company that makes spoons that used to exist but don't exist anymore. So that feels authentic to me, you know, like that was kind of the thing that was the dissonant thing for everybody anything. I feel like she was caught talking shit. But I don't know what you expect when you say that to like

a media publication, which is weird. Like and the fact that like they were going to be involved together in business and like I've had a friendly relationship was very weird to me. I think that ultimately, what you can boil this down to is, I think you can filter things that you say if you can believe into things you want to say and maybe think and things that you need to say and our fact you know what, you know what I think this is? Okay, tell me

if you think this. But there's a distinction. There's it's a tonal thing where sometimes I'll be like an interview with people dot Com is different than an interview with Sam Jones or with like Barbara Walters. Let's you know, like the like the interview between Oprah and Barbara Walters is like so raw and intimate and like you get these moments out of it that are like opus, like I bought a car because I could, or she's like,

you know, I don't know a better person. Like you get like these like crazy things where they get real and then even do you know you know that you not show off camera with Sam Jones. I love it. I actually don't know. It's it's that black and white

like YouTube show. I mean it's on VIM, like you pay for episodes, but it's like it's actors like really talking like talking about process, and it's like get into it, and he's asking very provocative questions that like leave it open for them to like get really candid and like potentially not talk ship but like have like be disarmed in a way that you just sort of are unfiltered. I feel like she was probably I'm not like excusing it.

What I think happened was she kind of got totally caught off guard and was like and felt comfortable saying all this stuff. I think that's definitely what happened. And I also think an element of it, I feel I feel badly that she doesn't have a filter I feel like that's something she's got to examine about herself. But she she's never had to develop one. She's never had to develop one as like as a person who like

checks her demographic boxes. I think that's definitely true. And I do think that what you can't what you can't forget here is that she assumed. I think it was her implicit bias towards Christie teagain that Christie Taggin was stupid. And I think that she thought this about two women

who are alike in a certain way. And I think that unfortunately, she got caught in a little bit of a tough, tough predicament there because you said it, and you would you have said it about Martha Stewart, Would you have said it about any other would you have said it about Anthony? Would you have said it about all these other people? But you specifically targeted two women of color to Asian women. Don't be surprised when people

have something to say about it. And the fact of the matter is you assumed they were too stupid to either hear it or just took their person hold away from them, like, oh, they're not really people, they won't really ever hear this. And and go ahead and say that's not what was happening. It was what was happening,

and it's it's just it's very interesting. I think people have pointed this out that she apologized to Christie, did not apologize, did not address the Marie thing at all, and also her her knee jerk reaction was not to apologize. It was baby's first Instagram backlash. It's I mean, internet backlash. It's like, girl, what also babies first? Like, it's not, um, sorry, I'm being a bit. She just she seems like a jerk to me. And also she said something nasty about

Ben Platt two weeks ago. I sent it to you and I was like, what is this? I was like, this is really fucking weird. Her tweet was I really want to like Ben Platt, but he makes it so hard.

Which is this sort of like like bullshit joke that like so like Neil Patrick Harris on Rachel bloom to where it's like, you obviously are a very comfortable person to sit sit from behind your phone and make this like mean assessment of someone that I guess you think because you said sort of humorously and you know it will get likes, you think is something actually contributing to the discourse in a comedic way. Honey, it's not it's well, I don't know, I just my thing with a full disclosure.

I've made the shallow pasta. It's delicious. No one saying

she's not talented. We're just saying she's a jerk. But you, I don't know, this might be going too far, but you can just tell from the vibe of the videos that this is someone who has been told that they are funny and charming, which they probably are they might be, but funny and funny in a way that like conflates like actual humor with like an off hand comment where or not even an off hand comment, just a comment that's slightly editorialized, and that's even a generous word to us.

But like she's like chopping, she's like cutting shouts and she's like, isn't this so interesting? You're gonna be cutting this? Like this is so like she you know, it's like she's know what I'm saying. It's like, look, I bet she'd be fun to have a glass of wine with, maybe even you know, I'm sure we would talk great ship together. But when you will become a public person and then you're saying it to a media outlet. It says a lot about you when you feel comfortable enough

to say this stuff that. Yeah, my thing with Marie Condo on the Marie Condo at all is like, um, and I I told this to you earlier in the week where I was like, she doesn't feel the need to apologize to Marie because maybe because Marie didn't doesn't care to call her out, or because you know, the East Asian woman is docile and you know, she doesn't

have to worry about it. Do you almost feel like like when people for when people took it to race immediately, I was I was kind of like there was a part of me that was like, se now, let's not like, let's not like put a damning label on this person just just because, but also like I genuinely want to know, like would she have attacked someone that like that that could have been like quote unquote her gay you know what I mean? Would she have done this to Anthony?

Like maybe maybe not. We'll never know because she didn't give us the opportunity because she didn't target any white people. She only targeted women of color who are who are entrepreneurs, you know, what I mean, and it's it's unfortunate, and like I wish we didn't have to, like in discussing this call that out. But what are you gonna do? Not right right right? Um, it's I don't I don't know. I I will say this, this, I don't think this will really come back to bite me in the ass.

And this I don't feel like this is a dirty thing to say, but like I don't know, I've just like I've had that I know that girl, this is this is this is we do know that girl? We know that? And who did I say this about? On Survivor? I was like I was talking about me, be like Candice or something. No, it's talking Amanda, Courtney. I was talking about Courtney was learning from China and oh no,

well this is my no, this is my thing. The thing about PG that was, and I'm sorry to use this word triggering, was it was like these like it was like the like the Yeah, I guess it does have to do with like the Courtney and the Amanda and probably even the todd of it all where it's like these like three like Caddie like in their corner, white people being like types types who are like we're not gonna And then like and then Denise, Todd and Courtney I think went to the Great Wall and had

this hot, hot dinner and then Todd's talking about Todd's talking about, Oh, the Chinese guy comes over and it's like oh, and and then and then it's the three of them like being like what is this? How do we eat this? What? Just like oh my god, Like this is taking me back to like middle school, where like white kids would come to my house and be like, your house smells weird, smells weird? What is this? How do I use this to do? Like all this time, I'm like, oh fuck, And like I know this person

on like the visceral like sense memory level. I'm back there and with with with the Alison Roman of it all, Like I'm just like I know this girl, and I think she doesn't. I think for some reason she like doesn't like me. Not in a way that I'm not tearing this on me in terms of a victim who narrative. I'm just saying, like she like it's bad vibes. It's bad vibes, and the vibe is she's a natural bully and that's what it is. And I think that that's

like famous natural vindicated bully in reality television. Roxy Andrews herself natural natural bully, born born with the instinct to belittle others for whatever reason. And you know what this ultimately says. What this ultimately says about someone like Alice Enrollment And I don't know her personally, she obviously has damage that she has not dealt with, and she feels

like she has to pick on someone like this. And maybe she felt because she was punching so up because it's crazy Tegan, that she felt like it, that she felt like it wasn't a punch down, but like it was. It came out of nowhere. She didn't need to do it, and she wasn't earning any respect or fans by saying it, and so therefore it is something to examine. She is not irredeemable. She's just she's a jerk and she's acted like a jerk. And you know, she's done the first thing,

which is she got around to apologizing. But I think it's like an examination you have to do now about why you felt comfortable to do that, And it's like a deeper thing that she can do on her own time. I don't necessarily care to see her do it in public. I don't care for her public persona at this moment. But it's not over for her, and we're not saying fuck her, cancel. We're saying she did something that there is something to be learned from, and that's what that's

what's Actually. It kind of bothers me when people are like Alice and Romans canceled. It's like, I mean, I'm sure they're like exaggerating or they're being i don't know, just kind of like wilfully extreme about it. But it's like, no, she's not canceled. She's just we're just like shitting hunter because holding her accountable. No, No, but we're just we're it's that we're it's like people are just shitting on her for this like dumb thing she said. But it's

like she will redeem, Like she will. I'm saying, no, she'll be more than fine. Some day in the next like a few years, she'll do something where are like people are gonna fall in love with her again and we're gonna be like, oh God, like this whole thing it's like this old chestnut. It's like she's not done. She's not she's like no one's like she's not she's not been, like I'm deprived of any opportunities besides this show that Chrissy was gonna ep. Maybe, but it's like

this is the whole thing. The reason Alison apologized to Chrissy um falls on like capitalist grounds anyway. It was about money, it was about her transaction. That's all that's always which switch which it makes it makes it even shittier. Like that's why, like I don't respect I don't respect

the apology either, so whatever I mean. But I think that it's interesting when it comes to the whole cancel culture discussion because it's almost become like such an annoying pair of words, and not almost become it is such an annoying pair of words, because it's not like I don't ever want unless someone does something really harmful or evil, I don't want them erase off the face of the earth. Every time I go on Twitter and I see blank blank is over a party, which seems to happen with

like Sean Mendez once a week. I don't understand what people are doing, but every time that happens, I'm like, this is so sicko and crazy, like it's not cancel culture. It's accountability culture. It's not you say something fucked up. You are accountable for the things that you say. Every hour of this podcast, every second of this podcast. You can find something that we've said. We are accountable for

all of it. I hope that I would be accountable. Yes, and we we will hold ourselves accountable for I mean I've gotten like I mean, I've an approached and I said I said something two episodes ago. Um that like was like problematic and someone people now people, multiple people reached out. They were like, you you have like sincerely wronged us and this group of people. And I was like, yes, I apologize, I'm so sorry. There's no excuse for it. Um, So yes, I mean like that that's that's all it is.

It's it's just an accountability. But again, that is like what this podcast is. I mean, it is observing the culture and then you know, commenting on it and a hopefully fun way. But the fact of the matter is, like was something like Elis and Roman. Everyone wanted us to talk about it, and I'll tell you what I'm not gonna say is fuck her. She should lose all financial apportuity. I think that it's like you're almost a straight woman getting fucked. You're almost a straight woman getting sucking.

But it's like you said, the woman makes amazing shalots. No no, yes, she makes the shallots, so she'll be able to make her shalots. No no no no no, and and and the other thing about her recipes that people are commenting on, which I agree, But the shallow recipe is is fine, But like she really does like caucasianized ethnic food, like her whole chick pie stew is like okay, you're just like you think Sue mac is gonna make this like cool, I don't know, it's it's

her recipes are also like eyebrow raise. Here's what I'm saying, you better be If you're gonna follow anyone in the New York Times, it better be Melissa Clark because she has been there since the beginning, and she will teach you how to perfectly roast a turkey. Everything's giving, and everyone on the Bonappetite Test kitchen staff on camera is amazing. I just did a dinner party with Christina Chay. It was so fun. I was so starstruck. It was so cool.

She's the coolest girl. Everyone in the Bone Test Kitchen staff. I love so much Matt. You would love Bonappetite Test kitchen. I told you about Andy Bereghani before you love him. Um, you would love You would love Clari, you would love Carla, you would love a Sola, You would love everybody. I mean literally, anyone who can cook food at all. I have the most respect for because I so worthless. I hope that to learn and I hope to examine my own feelings and they are that I am usuals in

a kitchen. Um. But for as for right now, we are going to take a quick break and we're gonna be back with I Don't Think So Honey. Yes, we are going to take even more things to task on this very critical episode of but on a negative way, last cooltures. That will be right back. And we are back and it is time for I Don't Think So Honey, which is a little segment where we take one minute to rail against something in culture that has wronged us

that we Fiel needs to be dressed down. And now at this time I feel like we can say we actually are attempting to film this one for you for a little visual moment. We're having varying degrees of success. I'm confident that we will sort of get this down to a point where um, you know you just you just set it, forget it as our as our um as our video person Mark is saying, lovely love, I forget it. We'll get there. But you know you his roughably are a lot better with the whole technology of

it all than I am. Um, so we will. I'm seeing a lot of progress, and I'm so proud of the progress you've made. I really thank you all. I really ever want us for you to be proud of me. All Right, So now we're gonna do I don't think so, honey, And I do have one that I alluded to earlier in the episode, and this gives me no joy to do this, Oh my god. And but at least it sets up a future guest, hopefully, we'll say, I hope, so she can come and explain herself. Okay, this is

Matt Rodgers is I don't think so, honey. As time starts now, I don't think so, honey, Mary Holland, you can follow her at Mary Holland Days and absolutely bomb her with emojis because she on Survivor Underscore Quarantine on Instagram, lied to my face and told me that we were in an alliance. And guess what she did. She turned around and voted me out of the damn game. And I don't even think it was a good gameplay move

for her. Mary Holland, you might be one of the most talented improvisers that is on the face of the earth, well at least in this country, the United States of America, but you made a piss poor decision when you voted me out of this fake Survivor game at Survivor Underscore Quarantine. And I have to say, I hope that you don't win, and I hope that someone that you respect and love says one thing to your face turns around and does another.

Even though it was a game, I took it very personally and I forgot to say one thing as I left Zoom to Mary, which means you too, Mary. And let me tell you who said that. Julius Caesar said that when he was stabbed in the back, and you've done that on Instagram to me, Mary Holland, I don't think so, honey. And that's one minute. Oh my god, Mary Holland, friend of Laura Labnu, I thought friend to me, I thought ally an Alliance member to me has voted

courses icon of the fabled improv group Wild Horses. Check out the new show Robbie on UM YouTube. I guess because Comedy Central. I guess rest in Peace UM, which we have not discussed, but I don't think we need to. We need. Mary Holland is the star of that show. And let's just say that while you should check out her work, and she's a comedic genius. She's very funny. She's a genius. She's actually hello, I love you you

call her a comedic genius. And then I followed up with she's very funny, as if that was like you contributed there. She actually hurt me very deeply, and I'm waiting for her to reach out, and that has not happened at this time. But do you hope that she makes it to final tribal council so that you have a chance to publicly take her to task because or I mean the other scenarios she gets voted off and she joins you in the jury, but like you, you won't have a platform to like, you know, really dig

into her unless she comes on the podcast. Let's just say this. I don't want to speak to her at all unless it's at that final tribal council or on this podcast. I will not be speaking to her at all. So she comes on this podcast, you will not speak to her. Don't know. I will speak to her on the podcast, not until then or the final Trabic council. UM. I am very hurt and and and as real a way as you can be by something that happened on Instagram. UM, but I don't know. You think. I think we could

have gone pretty far together. And she she played game on me, and I would respect it if I think it was a good move for her, but I don't think it was. I don't think it was. And I we'll talk about it, okay, okay, But I just to be hurt in this way, and by this way, I mean a moderately real way. UM, based on something that happened on Instagram during a fake game. UM is really something? Yeah, yeah, okay, it's really something. It's really something like and and it's

still evolving. Oh yeah. My feelings on it are forming a morphing and changing all the time. But UM, while I continue to sort that out, it is going to be actually your turn bone to do. I don't think it funny. Are you ready? I'm ready? This is I don't think so, honey, and his time starts now. I don't think so honey. Lip care. I'm holding three things. It's visual, guys. I'm holding lip balm, lip conditioner, and lip pack. What the hell is the difference between those

three things? Why are you inflating the market with different names for things when it should only be one thing you put on your lips. It's too much for me to keep track of. Wait, can we can I get confirmation? Have already done this? I don't think so, honey in the past. No, right, this is new. This is a new frustration that I have because I don't know what the third put on my lips. I still get flaky ass flakes on my levers. That's French for lips. And

I don't think there's anything. I don't think there's any way out of this for me, and it's really stressing me out, like it's the one thing that I can't figure out. My pores are still enormous, gaping pores on my face and my flaky ass lips, and I don't really know if my face is fixable. I think I'm gonna go into hiding for four years and then four years later you're gonna see me completely transformed and you're gonna start your conversation about me. That's what's going to happen. Okay,

and that's one minute. Um. Couple reactions. I don't think you've done that before. Um. And if you had, I had a moment. If you, if you have, I think everything you do is brand now you as a Toh my god, oh my god. That being said, I'm salty because I legit forgot. We were doing a video one and and there you were being very visual with props. Even I am a prop comic and here I am doing it. I don't think so, honey. On a friend of ours, which requires everyone to literally go to another

app on Instagram. It's good that you have supplemental material. I have all my my primary stuff with me. It's what I'm saying is this is what books you the TV gigs and leaves me out there. No, you shut up. That wasn't even a good I don't think so, honey. I thought it was a great I don't think so, honey. You got your point across. We've got a sense of emotionally where you're at. I just I can't. That's I don't know what to do about my lips. I I

just complain about domestic problems. Now I'm talking about my plans. I'm talking about my lips. It's it's really it's the subject matter is whittling down. Look, i mean, there's only so many things we can engage with in quarantine. And what was I gonna do? I don't think so, honey, video and audio set up, Well, that's specific to only us. But I'm sure there are people who can relate. Let's just say this. I'm happy to have a ring light.

I don't really see a use for it beyond this, to be honest, I mean, my job sent me a ring light and then a light panel and it might stand, you know, but and an eight foot by eight foot collapsible green screen that is honestly the most physically taxing thing to do. I'm losing my mind. I'm like, I'm I'm I'm living in my place of work. There's no separation between work and leasure. But that's that's not a unique problem. Everyone's going through this. But I'm just saying

we're all dealing in different ways. Aren't we? Aren't we? But you know, um, this this, this has been an episod of last culture recess that was really just you and I negotiating so many different things, new ways of thinking about culture, new new technology that is gonna cause us to you know, we're grappling with a lot, we're grabbing with a lot. But I think this is ultimately a quantum leap up. It's a leap. It's not it's

not a step down. We're stepping up the ladder. I mean, I can only speak for myself, and I have so enjoyed like this recording setup because I do love watching you like with this like particulate, like not only can I see you very well, almost as if you're here with me, but like you're it's just like the light on your face is just shying you get while you're on television. You look stunning, is what I'm saying. It's washing it. My face is a flat disk. This light

is really washing me out. You look stunning, I have to say. And you're freshly shaven um, which is perfect because you're you're on jury now, so you're you're you're groomed essentially now that I'm on the jury of so At Survivor, Underscoard Quarantine, and I do have to keep showing up in different looks, like looking stunning. You have to like now you have to like put like a lip liner on or lip cloths or like eyeliner, something, just a little something to to just rub it in

their faces that you have you can primp. You know, you gotta show them you can primp what they're You gotta show them what they're missing. I gotta show them what they're missing because they don't have access to the same things as you do. The game. Um, I loved our impressions of Parverty in Sandra. I can't wait. I can't believe we're talking to Parverty next week. Hi, Madam Bowing. This is Sassy Sandra from Survivor. I heard you guys were doing fun impressions of me on your podcasts and

I really appreciate that. I'm not gonna listen to the podcast because I don't listen to podcasts. The only show I watched is Yes, you guys did Survivor, and on this season we got It's really heating up. You know, Wednesday's at eight on CBS. You can be seeing a lot of my very good friends and also some people that I hate more than death compete to become the

winner of two million dollars. But no matter or what you know, Queen's days Queen and that I am Sandra, the sassy girl from the Bronx who one Survivor two times, and then no one else can say that. I gotta go because Survivor is coming on. Survivors coming on. Also catch me mentoring on Island of the Idols alongside Boston Rob who won only one time, but I won twice. Remember that, Remember that one, Remember that one. Gonna have

to remember remember that one. Oh, can I just say really quickly, Um, Matt, you put out a call to action on Twitter to leave nice reviews on the on the on the Apple podcast. I did, and thank you everyone for doing that. Can I just say, I did a demented thing and I read every single one. They really made me emotional and they made me laugh. I was laughing out loud. I mean, people are just writing

such beautiful, creative little little word um tapestries. And I mean a lot of people really using because I mean, you know, Matt, anytime anyone says gonna have to blank that one automatic, automatic laugh, automatic laugh. And I will say thank you so much to everyone for doing that, because we did have some crazy trolls who admittedly had never listened to the podcast just giving us one star

and you know the five star uh ratings. They really do help us, not not not only just emotionally and that we see them and we we think we feel good about them, but they help us be you know, um at charted a little bit more visible, so you know, we we love oh you guys for listening. And I do want to just do a little bit of a check in h know that we are loving you in quarantine baby. I know I don't know what the every day to day looks like for everyone, but we are

giving you big hugs. And I just wanted to remind everyone that you can now follow the Instagram and the Twitter at Lost Culture rest us both and we are now um fully in control of both of those handles, so we are going to be engaging with you guys a little bit more than we usually did on those platforms. Shout to Ronnie, thank you for um bequeathing us. The last culture is to handle on Instagram, and we're so excited to look out for some more little little bits

of content on the channels. I'm using all the right words, aren't I. It's so fun, um, I really do, and me. Yeah, just and thank you for checking in with everybody, Matt. I also I'm sending everybody big hugs. And I really just I am so grateful. I was. I really just kind of went down this fun little gratitude not spiral because that has like a connotation to it, but like I was just, um, so we're recording this on Sunday,

uh season finale of US, and I was yesterday. I was just very very grateful for um, the people at that place, um yeah, the people outside of that place, and I was just thinking about how lucky I am to have any kind of support system, um, even through people I don't even know. And hopefully this sounds so so cloying, but hopefully we you know, we um figure into that for you. We are always so so so I don't know, we're always so I would say you and I are like very empathic and we're very loving.

I know we're bragging about how like I'm not bragging about how nice we are, just saying, like you and I constantly checking about like how grateful we are for the readers and how just people who listen are so so kind, superlatively kind. It's it's unlikely that we would be doing the stuff that we're doing and as enjoying our lives as much if we hadn't started doing the podcast. And so thank you guys all so much for being an active part of it and for keeping us going

for this long. And we're never gonna stop until one of us is dead. Um, and I feel really sad thinking about that. I know, Oh my god, oh my god, we can't do this. I just I just thought about us dying and it's going to happen. Well, it will happen. Actually, it's rule of culture number nineteen. Death will happen. And it's gonna be so sad. So on that note, on that note, um, we actually what we do is we end. I can't believe this is our last episode before PARV.

Oh my god, it's this is gonna be a turning point in the season and this season, in the show, in the series. So we're gonna end this episode with a song and it's not it's a song that does not have words. That's my hands. Okay, okay, I don't know like that's it's it's starting to feel a little a little bit, a little weird, a little weird. We're sorry.

We'll take us to account accountability culture us account of by culture, and you just know that we are going to oute the second we turn this up, examine that. Bye bye