It's Time! (w/ Mariah Carey)

Hey everybody, it's me Matt Rogers, letting you know. Tickets are on sale now to see me on tour, the Prince of Christmas Tour, that is, I'm doing my whole album have you Heard of Christmas? Plus a lot more with the whole band all throughout the December. Go to www dot Matt rodgersoficial dot com to see me in a city near you. And now lost culch drums, look mare, oh I see you and look over there is that culture. Yes, goodness, wow, lost Cultu ding Dong Lost Cultures. And this feels like

I think we pack it up after this.

After this, it's to the graveyard with us.

Yeah, And to all the haters, y'all want, Yeah, y'all want. And also it's fine and we did. We did the thing we needed to do for our life to be complete. We've peaked personally, professionally, journalistically.

Yes, and we'reving a festive moment today in honor of our guest. It is, of course September twenty sixth at this time of recording.

So it's not yet.

It's not yet on not yet, because it's really not yet.

It's really not yet, but as we approach, it's t word, you know, it's just the anticipation is building. I am just even donning this Princess Diana sweater, yeah, with the Lamiley on it, as it were, I'm feeling the festive spirit even though it's not yet.

So those who know the real ones know, Okay, I want to take you back. It's April eleventh, two thousand in Madison Square Garden, my very first concert of my entire life. My parents got me for my birthday Mariah Carey The Rainbow Tour, which really was a narrative about trying to hunt down Bianca. Yes, I do want to find that if we ever got the word, that b word, the character from perhaps the greatest music video of all time. You know. The other day, I'm digging in my artifacts

For me?

That is our guest, and I cannot believe you're here. We did meet briefly at Peloton. Yes, it was not necessarily an exchange of words. It was more an exchange of what would you support?

I think I think you helped our guests down from the podium, from which she said it's T word that, Yes, the tea word being time, the T word being time. But it was a perfect prelude to this moment, which I think has been in the stars, destined for time eternal.

It's a major moment. I'm gonna make it through. I can make it through the rain. You can through the rain, eventual tears. But as a card carrying, platinum card carrying member of the Lamily, and I know I speak for so many people that are listening and watching this right now. We are so excited to welcome the greatest of all time, Mariah Carries. You really are here.

I'm here, I'm here, the prequel to It's time, right, Well, yeah, there's the not yet right yeah, And then maybe I'm just like waving up at the world, going I'm here.

Is it ever too? When do you start decorating? I wonder?

I wait, you wait, yeah, actually I wait till I'm done with the tour. Yeah, okay, and then it's tree ornaments. I like your ornaments.

Well, it's from the Amazon Music collaboration with Mariah On October thirty. First go to amazon dot com Flash Variah Care. You can buy ornaments snow Globes Exclusive tour merchant a pair. I mean, talk about the snow globe is what how did you pick out the scenery and the dioramas of the snow glow.

Yes, the diamas the diroma is vocabulary. My gosh, you guys win. So the snow globes with the EMC logo and the it's glittery snow, I would call that right, glittery snow. And that's my little caricature of me and some reindeer, and I just I thought it would look pretty with this kind of the gold down here as the.

Adornment Coco, the adorn Every time I use a word that makes you laugh, I feel very happy.

You know, you're you're a vocabulary legend, your vocabulary, your averb I.

Mean, I kind of like used to be, but I don't. It's not that I don't try anymore, but I don't. I don't know what the word is. I just say, I don't know what the word is.

Where you go? You know that you really had me saying the word nonchalantly in third grade, Like people are like, hey, Matt, what do you want to play at recess today? I'm nonchalant about it just because of your songs.

I listened to that the other day and I was like, I guess I'm trying to be nonchalant about it.

Who did I think I was?

I was using incessant before I even knew what the word incessant. But I just heard incessantly and I was like, well, if Mariah is using.

The rhyme I got away with and not for.

Nothing, but incessantly in a number one hit song, they're not using words like that anymore. Number one hit songs, they're not. No, I don't think so.

I think you know in this TikTok age, it's like everyone's gonna be quick, and it's gonna be monosyllabic. You can't throw a lee or anything.

In there, right. The lee's get them, the lees, the lees get them.

But I think the lees rhymes with the mees. And I feel like you are singing from your point of view, and so therefore it works. It's the puzzle.

Piece, you know, the puzzle piece.

Yeah, we were wading in Vanity Fair in this recent interview did that.

By Rob Ledoni, friend of mine, friend of friend of.

Cod It's been six years since Caution, and yeah, so I believe that one of my favorite albums in the last.

Decade, brilliant, truly, truly, truly.

It didn't get the push and promotion that it deserved. Agree and sad about that.

You know, am I? Yeah?

Are you?

That was bangers on Bangers? I was. I remember it was in like Goanas and you did that sit down like that was really focused on your songwriting and it was like around the release of Caution. I actually went with my friend Mariah Smith. Oh yeah, so it was me and Mariah watching Mariah and it was like that album was total fire and it really was. That conversation was about your songwriting, and I think that, like, that's what I get most excited about when it comes to you.

Yes, I am writing now. But the more I talk about new music and that I'm doing this and it's probably coming out and whatever a year or two years. Everybody gets mad at me because they're like, why are you telling us this? And then it doesn't come out in a year, and oh you know what I mean that some people be mad.

No, they just need to let you work. It just does feel like, you know, six years we already twenty twenty five is the year I'm saying.

It, and I will concur. Okay, I have a concur.

It concurs, not a commitment, like if it gets pushed, we'll understand.

Yes, it really does need to happen.

Yes, yes, we agree. We are over here agreeing. We had Caution on during a drive up state I remember in twenty eight Yeah, and it was just like damn every track, you know. I mean, I feel like you have this quality as a vocal producer where you like are clearly working with these collaborators that you love, like you're Jermane Deuprits and you're R. Michael Cox's. But it's like, when do you know as an artist, like that your stamp is on it, that it's done, it's ready to go.

Hmmm, Well, it takes a while. I run it down once and then I'm like, okay, that was cute, and then, you know, I don't know how long. I take a while, you know, so that I can live with it and just really let it sink in, and then I'll know, like, Okay, there's about five words that I want to redo the way the way I'm saying that. You know, I didn't like that, or it's okay, but I want to try something different, right, Yeah.

And that's a different process from like the songwriting of it, because right, like that's just getting it down.

It's how do I say it? It's a it's an interesting like like a sandwich.

Okay, yes, yes, because you're famously stacked. He's famously stacked.

But yeah, it's because it's so important to write this song first and then if you don't take your time, and it's part of the process to do that, like go in change this, go in change that.

You know.

I mean you were talking about how Hero was one of the songs that came the fastest to you on a writing level, then I imagine the production of that was a longer process.

It actually went. The whole thing is sort of like at the same time. It happened at the same time because they were explaining to me about Dustin Hoffman's new movies that was called Hero and then I took a walk to the loo and started hearing. Then then A Hero comes along and with the start to carry on and walked back in and said to Walter a who I used to work with. I was like, this is how the song goes, Like can you start playing this yeah and humming to him the you know.

So it just it's wild that that can come to you so quickly and then it becomes one of the most famous hooks of all time. Does that ever like feel strange? It's like one of the things that you thought of really on the way to and from the lou then becomes that thing that like really hits hard and maybe something you work on for a very long time, like.

Doesn't doesn't get to that point. Yeah, Well, I wasn't trying to write this big heroic.

Answer anthem the Ages.

An anthemic heroic moment. Was it wasn't searching for that, Yeah, but it you know, it kind of happened what arrived. But then some songs I am working on, you know, longer, and and maybe I'll end up liking them better, like a song like Fly Like a Bird, Like I love that song, and yet it's not Hero in terms of like how major Hero was in terms of success, but I still love and it's a Grammy winner.

You don't have enough of those. By the way, five.

They play with toy with me.

Can I ask, what's a better vocal performance in terms of pop music than Heartbreaker? Can we talk about the end breakdown of Heartbreaker? I really want to get into this. There's four different like vocal lines of you coming on at the same time that I'll call back to different parts of the song. I remember hearing that song for the first time and being like, I don't know how she did this again. But yet of course, just like what that's stacking that happens at the.

End, it's performance.

It's it's incredible, And I wonder, is that like something you're particularly proud of, because to me, that is pop excellence. Thank you? Heartbreaker is everything.

I appreciate that very much because it's one of my favorites. Yeah, done, And that ending was just me figuring out, like the song is written over a loop, yes, right, so in order to do like all those different parts, it wasn't that difficult because it's all it was pretty much the same the right song itself because of the way it's written over a loop. Yeah, So then doing the little parts and having the interwoven with each other was just what it's like what I like to do.

So yeah, yeah, and just pulling it out and like isolating those souks was just like a genius way to end that song. And that last give Me It's just like it's just like that little cherry on top that like you could live happy for the rest of your day when you're when you've listened to that and just to speak to that moment and also that tour. So when you're doing that song, do you see the video at the same time, because that's probably one of the best music videos ever you versus Bianca.

The Heartbreaker music video.

Yeah, and I want to know where she is now.

I know we got to find her.

She was.

She and there was a girl on the set who was actually she was like a stand in and she was from a different country and because she had an accent, and she's a pretty girl, you know, and we're there and everybody's throwing the popcorn, like you know, we're throwing the popcorn, and she got so mad. She's a stand in to be there and whatever. The girl had popcorn on top of her hair, glued on top of her hair, like that's what it was supposed to be. And she

The injustice adding hours to the day it did.

And then I went out to her trailer and was like, Hi, we really didn't mean to do anything to upset you or you know.

She was like, oh wow, she was really giving Bianca.

She was so you know Bianca. We were inspired all the more conflict.

Where did the name bianca come from?

I just made it, Yeah, as your want to do. It's another word that is pulled from wherever.

Yes, an immaculate conception.

I wanted to just say and also ask. In addition the Butterfly album, I think that I don't know if this is true, but I would guess that of all the lambs like and all the fans that come up to you across the world that that's one that probably comes up a lot. I know for me, I listened to it at a time when I was like really like discovering myself, and it will always be so important

It definitely it has very special significance to me. I think it's probably my best album.

I don't know how that doesn't have all the accolades from all it has a zero accolades zero. I don't get it.

I think I'm pretty sure it has zero accolades.

I was looking earlier just to check, and I was right. You had some nominations for it, but not anywhere near the respect that that album deserves for not only what it did in terms of like the metamorphosis of you as an artist in your career, but I know how it inspired so many.

Artists, so many I mean, I love that album. It has a certain feeling when you listen to it, like yeah, and there's the it's just got a lot of diversity, like it's it's I don't know ego from Breakdown to the Butterfly.

My all, my all is I mean, we all know, but like my it's just like you. I again hit play on it and I listened to a lot of the discography this morning, happily and getting ready for this. But just like honey, just the way that the album starts. You know, we're in a new era, you know what I mean.

It's it's innovative. It's just it's one of those albums that we had Kelly Clarkson in this chair like a year ago.

Really, yeah, she loves my all.

Oh wow, yeah, that's so nice.

Yeah, but I mean, like just that album and particularly the Roof. I was so happy that you got so.

She was talking about the roof.

No, Kelly was talking about Okay, I'm talking about the roof. Okay, but she could be talking about the roof because I said, I'm not as well known. No, but you know what those that's a number one hit for the Lambs. I'm telling you. So back in the day we did on this podcast we did a book club reading of the Meaning of Mariah Carey. Oh really, yes we did, because it is my favorite book and it is, like I think it's a piece of music history. It's music history.

It's the best celebrity memoir. It's like it's the audiobook is the best celebrity audiobook.

Did you like the audio where? Yeah, word they could have.

Yeah, they could have stopped playing in this woman's face. Not that it matters what you think, but like in a world where it will be nice anyway, Like they had it right in the beginning, but anyway, Like what I'm saying is you mean the best artists, they got it right the first year, and then they were like, let's continue to sleep on it, like as if you weren't leagues ahead of everyone else. In all respect to everyone else, but anyway, everybody, I love everybody, line everybody.

Why do you pronounce it that way?

I'm like, that's just how I yeah, I mean, but listen, like it worked, and but I probably should have wrote sprite or something, right, But just to know that, like that's the kind of song that is, like I didn't have to get it to really get it and have it be meaningful to me. And that's like a testament to your writing and that album and what must have been such an incredible breakthrough creatively for you at that time.

Thank you. Yeah, it it definitely was just to be able to be free to write and perform in the way that I wanted as opposed to other people saying do this. Even if I wrote Hero, that doesn't mean that's the only song or type of song that I wanted to write.

Right, And you were very famous for that type of song for a long duration of time, right, I guess yeah, I know you were, And then all of a sudden, this new person came out because you felt I don't know, embolden or how would you Yeah, a good vocal word.

It's in the song we're talking about. That's the only reason I remember. Yeah, yeah, of course I started feeling started feeling liberated.

Yeah, I mean iconic. But then your music got funnier too, I think, do you think that that is there's a link there, because all of a sudden you started making jokes. I had jokes, But how do you feel about the jokes?

Now?

You're you're you know?

I do. I still do. I just haven't put out a new album in six years, as you pointed out.

And look as someone who does not believe in time, Yeah, like what is time?

We don't know what that is?

So then so's it's irrelevant, right, It's like and it's also like part of the process. It's like it needs time to cook, it needs time to develop, and and so it's it's all you got to basted.

It requires based, it requires based.

It's like it's like Thanksgiving.

You know, and then at the end you get a fabulous meal with people that you love.

Yeah, of course. Do you like Thanksgiving or are you wanting to rush through it to get through your season?

I like Thanksgivings. Well, I'm just I'm very you know the word I'm going to say best.

Yes, that includes the Turkey Day of course. Yeah, because your festive for Halloween, your festiv for the Thanksgiving, your festive for Christmas, Yes, yes, for the July well yes, First, another great track, thank you.

I have a song called for this.

Yes, they know if you don't know, Actually I made I remember I made at the time of doing the book the audiobook, I made playlists for everyone who like, for some reason, didn't know. And this is my intermediate Mariah playlist. Ready the roof Hate You Clown one of the great tracks. Clown is so good and we agree with you el Friend co written by Candy Burth. Yes, Wow, we love, we love forever. The distance Your girl and your.

Girl are you kidding me?

Vanish Sweetheart and all I've ever wanted? Those are my those.

It's so funny that Vanishing is on there after John just said, I.

Know, right, we're talking about about Vanishing just over there because your incredible performance of it on Saturday and Live all those years ago.

Hello, Hello, that was a fun moment. Patrick Swayze was those Yes, and that was like early. That was like the beginning, the very beginning. Yeah, if you were to walk back in there in that space like you would just you would have even more of a command on it, I think, right, Like.

I like, no, I think I had less what's it called. I wasn't quite as nervous. Yeah, back then for some reason. I don't know why totally.

I mean it makes it like I I understand what you mean, because I feel like there's this thing that at least as it relates to just and how people say that, like, oh, the longer you stay there, the more the more nervous you are, which is it shouldn't work that way. It should work in these it's like, oh, it's you should be more comfortable. And yet like something about like being on display or just having your work be like celebrating. I'm talking about your work be celebrated.

So early on in one's career, right, you know, did you.

Feel like it was very fast? Because in the book you talk about sort of it was only a few years into your career that it was the Tokyo Show that you really realized just how international and how big you were. But before that it was not.

Well because the Tokyo Show was in a gigantic Tokyo don't was ginormous? Yeah, so you know, I found myself there and it wasn't like being at even like on Saturday Night Live, which is bigger in many ways, but this.

Was spatially huge and across the world. Right, Yes, you know, that's totally different type of fan probably responding in a different way. Were they a very like engaged crowd, did they know the words in their own way or.

Well, my experience at that time was that everybody had to kind of be polite. People in Japan were very polite, and so it was like, you know, I would sing whatever the song was, and then it would just be Yeah, we're done punctuated, And somebody came up to me and said, like, please don't think that we're not appreciative of your music. This is just our culture. And how you know it was so nice that they did that because I'm sitting there like, I don't know.

I think it was that the show too where or maybe that maybe not that show, but there was another show where you were trying to teach the crowd always be my Baby. I think you performed it for the first time.

I think it was that one.

It was and that you were trying to get them to do it, and they were just like, we're not.

I can't match that. You can't match the.

Three probably another one of your greatest ever.

Oh thank you.

How do you feel about just this standard now in the industry and the music industry that you've set, which is or this convention really where it's like a beautiful vocal can be paired with a great hip hop feature, you know, like those two things are complimentary, which I mean, no one at the time that you sort of innovated on that thought would work at all.

Fantasy Heartbreaker pioneered that.

Yeah, that was I mean, there there were other there are other ones too. I'm trying to think of all the records I did, like with Jada Kis at the time, I mean, that was definitely unexpected.

That is such a huge part of your legacy. Like how does that sit with you? Watching literally everybody sort of follow the blueprint that you've set.

It's it's interesting, but I you know, I didn't even say o dB, which you know, fantasy probably the biggest, one of the biggest. Yes, absolutely, And I really I wanted so much to work with hip hop artists. I really did. I wanted to do my thing and then be able to listen to their vocals. Yeah, you know what I mean. And so then luckily I was able to do it. But a lot of people told me, oh, this could be the end of your career, you know, don't do.

This, that the world's had to be separate. Yeah, M so crazy now because the music it feels like what is genre?

Right?

You know, yes, it's wild like you see like you know, with Beyonce's album Cowboy Carter, Like, yes, it's country, but it's also rockets, also Americana, it's pop, it's all these things. Now it feels like if you're not blending genre, what are you doing right?

And having that moment at the GRAMM is with you in Miley last this year fell like such a perfect encapsulation of that too, and it makes me, it makes everyone really excited for whenever the new stuff is coming. Not to bring it back to this, but it's like, I think you can. You're really going to take advantage of this.

Sort of Yeah, I agree, And I loved that moment with Miley was amazing. She was so great and she sent me flowers, Yeah, send me beautiful flowers after that, and I was like, she's incredible.

When she gave you your props there, I mean like she was like, no, you have to stay right here. I think because I would imagine that she looks up to you and like feels indebted to you for what you've done, as everyone does and should. Mariah Carey, we have to ask you the question that's the centerpiece of our podcast, the centerpiece of the centerpiece of this snow globe, the Christmas snow globe of our podcast, Mariah carry what was the culture that made you say? Culture was for you?

Well, there's a few things, Yes, give it to us, I would have to say, looking at from the time I was little little Michael Jackson when he was a kid, yes, yeah, and then when he did like on Motown twenty five, when he was there making like history, not the album, but making history, you know, just being himself being on their moonwalking and doing everything. I mean, it was just a moment where everybody was just watching that.

Yeah.

And also Prince. I love Prince and it's so sad that he's no longer with us. Yeah, I still listen to Prince all the time, and yeah, I would say,

So that's that's three very good answers.

I mean, I feel like the thing that ties them all together too, is they all have such iconography, you know what I mean. Like you look at them and you say, that's Marilyn. There's only one that's Prince. There's only one that's Michael. There's only one and you see you think of him doing the moonwalk, and you immediately that's a monoculture moment.

And so do you.

Think that that imprinting on them had something to do with the fact that you felt like almost othered and that you would grow to be You knew you could grow to become an individual, and there was something about them being so singular that you identified with.

I promised myself I would grow to be someone that had a successful career. Yeah, because I did feel so othered and being of mixed race, coming from a family that was very dysfunctional, that was a difficult road for me. And so I kind of had to adapt this this strength that was like, you know, I'm going to do this. I'm not going to tell anybody that I'm going to do this, but this is what I'm going to do.

Move in silence, geez do it? Yeah, moving silence until we're using and then we're actually taking up.

But yeah, between the three of those, it's like there's there's vocal trademark, there's artistic trademark, there's esthetic trademark. It's like and those and those all kind of converge in you and like, I mean, you really are just a singular, all time great person and who's created all this joy. I mean, like you know, you've created this world and this feeling that people will never detach from, that will always carry with them.

Hm.

That's really it's really incredible.

Thank you. I think Also people don't realize how tough Long Island. Yeah, talk about the Long Islan all. I mean, like it is though, like you know what I mean, like it's like Wrong Island. Baby. Are you a seafood person? I know you love your linguini with white clam sauce.

I do. That was my dad's recipe. That's why why what do you think I'm just like, it's a Long Island thing.

I'm just saying we're by the sea where in Long I'm from Icelip, but my parents grew up in Lindenhurst, so I'm a south shore kid. Yeah, Okay, why do you laugh?

I laugh because I had such a traumatic experience growing up in a place that's so racist, and that was a thing where, you know, my mother always wanted to live. There are different places around there and I and I had to be there. So I did love.

It right to the point where, like, you know, you go, oh, the struggles that I've been through sort of define who I am. But it's like there are you. There are certain things and experiences and settings in life where you go I could have I think I could have done without that.

Mm hmm yeah a few.

Yeah. I mean that's a good bleak about but you read the book. But like, I honestly think it's so important that you speak so truthfully about that stuff because I think when we listen to your music, like when we listen to the song outside and we listened to Close my Eyes, and this is stuff that you really opened up about in Butterfly and had maybe sort of hinted at in your earlier work but never really got into the darkness, and then you started to let us

I loved writing the book. I collaborated with Michaela Angela Davis and she's awesome. I mean, when I read the book for the audio, you know, for Audible, it was

And did it feel therapeutic.

Yeah, it definitely felt therapeutic. I mean I was crying when I was writing. It was a lot of just intense emotional kind of feelings. But yeah, it was. It's it's still I still you know when I see the book and its people come and ask me to sign it and everything like that, I'm just like, you know, I feel proud that I we did this.

Yeah, you know, because it's an opportunity for people to connect with like the truth about your life. And I imagine reading the audiobook felt like almost like it is a performance, you like, besides the singing of the lyrics and your work and this thing that people connect to it is like you reading about your life experience is its own kind of showmanship or something.

Yeah, well it's a lot of exposure. You know, you're exposing your life and these details that you already put out there and wrote, but then now you're going to read it. And yes, sometimes I sang sometimes I you know, figured out, Okay, I'll sing this, or I'll we'll write this and as a melody or whatever, you know. But it's it's one of my things that I've done that I'm most proud of.

Yeah. I would imagine too, that like the fun moments of it were probably so fun to relive. Like even like obviously it was like a tense moment, like the divas live of it all, You're getting prepared and Aretha being like Mariah, they're playing games, they're playing game, But that had to be so fun to relive in a way, like that night. Well, that's actually been mentioned on this show many times. I know.

There used to be a skit. Yeah there was, yeah, you mean on Saturday.

Yeah it was. It was on a Gosstyre Molly Shannon and Sherry right doing Mariah.

And yeah, yeah, oh my god, that's so fun. Yeah, that is like truly, they don't make a show like that anymore, you.

Know, Yeah, no, they don't.

They have to.

They have to, though, I mean.

But will it will it be as big ever? I don't know. Look how long it's been a nice.

Now, you know what, though, I would say it's like that's the type of thing now that you think they would reboot because they're rebooting everything. Yeah, you know what I mean, and so much success comes with like you know, we're seeing the cast of Friends together again, Harry Potter gets back together and does an eight part whatever on HBO, Like you know, they did Mean Girls again, which I want to talk to you about. Like, it just feels

I mean, I feel like this has been a really banner year in like women and music, and I feel like it's it's the perfect period on the whole year for you to come back with with the Divas Live with the Diva's Like but but I'm also just saying, like, Merry Christmas and it's thirtieth anniversary.

Yeah, it's like synergy there. Yeah, you are the ultimate. We've been waiting for a year when so many people have like made these amazing pop efforts and then at the end of the year there will be Mariah's thirtieth anniversary during Christmas which it doesn't get bigger.

It doesn't get more timeless than that. Do you get tired of doing All I Want Christmas?

As?

No, No, darling.

It's so funny. We were doing you know, my show in Vegas and I went out onto the stage during this one part where they we didn't do the song I was supposed to do, which was circles for me me, I mean, I do it every other night, but on this night, I was like, Okay, we're not going to do that, and you guys start playing the beginning of All I Want for Christmas is you, and I'll run out there and that's what happened. It was it was cute.

You like Vegas because you keep going back because.

People keep booking.

And then they can come to you.

Well, no, I mean people that work for me.

Wait, now that we've talked about truggles, I have to ask. So we talked about Butterfly, and that's like a landmark, like that is like definitely, you think one of your best, Like I think a lot of your fans would agree.

I love that, honestly, tasteful there, you'll love it. It is tasteful, it is taste, and it's eclectic. It's a diverse, eclectic, tasteful, electic.

Taste, very demure. It's mindful, not like other girl.

I felt I was being mindful and putting it together years ago. Of course, Wait, what do you think about all I've ever wanted being on there? Because that's an old one.

Yeah, you know, I don't, no, no, no, I like it. I like that song like when I think about it, Yeah, yeah, it's it's good. It's It's not like I would do a couple of like kind of genre specific ish ones like one that with the Mimi songs that are just like your girls circles, maybe fly like I. I can't name them all now, but you know, and then Butterfly.

To the Floor also that was on the other day and I was like, God.

Damn to the floor, everybody to the floor.

Yes, it's like never released though, what do you mean, like as a single? Yeah, that album was singles, but then you went to the deluxe right, and then we got don't.

Forget about Yes, I Love I Wish You Knew.

No.

I Wish You Knew was on the No. I Wish You Knew was on that that See I listened to that song and for you to do that like arena moment where you're just like talking, I.

Just did it and and uh yeah overseas as well. I knew that the album was strong.

Yeah.

Yeah, so you know, when it did what it did in terms of the charts and then having it go platinum and then re releasing and all that stuff, I felt so good.

Yeah.

Of course, is there a potential for it to be a trilogy where it's like three M C or something. You have a equals empty squared, but then you have like the Math is gonna fly the Math, the Math is flying out. I mean, I feel like there's there's something neat about it being like a three part, three three pronger, A three pronger prom like a trident triangle.

Okay, yes, I just call it a three pronger a jingle hopper. Is there a chance of like another album with a different type of uh like naming it so well?

Actually, people have drawn the comparison of Caution into like that sort of like emancipation, sort of like sound or like that like philosophy and so like, I don't do you consider Caution to be like the third installment of this or do you think like there it's coming in the future, like like, is there a vision for this?

I think it's coming in the future.

God, yes, Wow, that would be thrilling.

Okay, I just got chills, and I hope you like it.

How many times do you watch Mean Girls a week?

Oh? I haven't watched it in a while.

Okay, okay, sometimes even your favorite movie you can't. Like I used to watch Clueless like at least twice a month, and then I have put it away from now.

I need to put bring Meng Girls back and watch it tonight.

Honestly, tonight, it might be the night.

It might be tonight because in honor of this moment.

Yeah, absolutely, Tina was here and she's thrilled that you love Mean Girls. Home.

Yes, I say you'll play that trivia game.

Yes, I won. You do everything. You beat her at her own film.

Beat her at her own film. We love you, Tina.

What about a return to acting for you anytime soon? Because you were brilliant and precious?

Thank you.

Did you watch the New No?

I didn't. I know, Yeah I heard all about it.

What do you think about what you've heard?

Well, I'm not a person that likes to watch horror.

Yeah, it's hard and very scary.

Yeah. I don't want that to be in my head. No, you know I'll say no. I'll say no to that.

When you go to Disney, when you go to Disney World, because we know you're a fan.

Uh huh, I am.

Do you do scary rides?

I do Tower of Terror.

It's a classic. It's so good, truly, and they better never touch it.

No, you and are Grande have the same feeling of a twer of Terror. She has written an entire notes app statement, a petition basically to Disney that she she has saved and I can reveal this. She wouldn't mind me blowing up this spot. But she is like, if you do anything to Tower of Terror at Orlando, there will.

Be right because they did it in La They made it the Guardians of the Galaxy, which is not bad.

No, it's not bad, but it's not the Terror of Terror.

It's not a classic. Yes, I see, but you can do that kind of spooky scary.

Well yeah, but it's also because it's a rise.

But you're in it, you know you're in the spook.

Well that's the thing. Is like, I don't like scary movies at all, but I can do a hunted house because I feel like I can run away, you know what I mean. It's like when you have me on foot, I'm very spry.

I'm very spry in distant and.

Get away from the terror. But when I'm sitting in a chair, it feels like it's happening to you identifying.

Yeah, I hear you.

Do you have top three favorite Disney rides? Oh my god, Ower of Terror is up there.

Tower of Terror in Orlando where I used to like, and I guess it's not there anymore. Splash Mountain, Slash Mountain.

It's now Princess Tiana. Oh it is so now it's called we call it Princess Tati's by you dip It's called Princess Tiana's by You adventure and the story goes that to collect to collect ingredients and get her band together to create a performance at the end, and I hear it's cute. Jennifer Lewis is in it?

Did they still let that the drop and everything?

You still drop? You still you still get your frills and your thrills.

Well, give it a shot, a shot, get down there.

Okay, so that's two, one more, one more?

What else? That Disney too? Oh my gosh, well it's not Disney though.

What is it?

I was gonna say, Harry Potter, I don't know what you This.

Is the NBC Universal.

We love them. Yeah, I love Disney. Yay, Disney. I do all the corporation, all the corporates.

No one left out out.

Speaking of corporation, we have we have a very important question to ask you about two about two lyrics.

Oh yes, okay, okay. We want to say, if you have to choose one or the other of your two lyrics, these are two of our favorite lyrics that you've ever done. Okay, it's them. Chickens is ash or you will on the top Corporation the press conference, you a conversation that one. Yeah, that is for all time, and it really does say what you need to say. I mean you or you, I'm all this, I'm a press conference, you a conversation station.

I don't know. I was just writing a song and that was just an ad lib. After laying it down, are you in the.

Studio being like, play it back, play it back, play it back and then giving different vocals like again and again and again.

Or sometimes yeah, yeah, sometimes they do that.

I think that's the most fascinating part of recording, like the stacking and the harmonies and.

Like that harmony is so much fun.

Yes, yeah, because then you get the sound that you want. Yes. Yeah. When you write, are you hearing it as a full song or are you hearing the bare bones like when you when you are struck? Is it like you can hear? Is it like a turn a phrase that inspires you? Or is it like a melodic thing usually or is it always different?

It's always different, but if there's just like a melody that's coming to me. And let's say I'm somebody's playing the piano and I'm like, no, play, don't don't play, you know what I mean? But both of those could be different, like melodically on top of each one, sure, because if you're just singing in front of the on top of the plane one, that's you just make up anything and it's easy. Something else you have to follow or work around what the keys are.

Doing right, it's holding the center too much. But are you do you have any sort of synesthesia you think about like you hear a sound, but you'll send something else you see it or you feel it or does that make sense?

It's yeah, it's a sensory situation and you feel it and hear it. And if it's really something that's going to end up being close to your heart, then you just go in and do it.

And like how often do you write? Like are you writing? Like all the time? Like let's just say, like could you write tonight?

Not tonight? I mean I could, but I'm like, no, I'm staying at a hotel. Yeah you need your atmosphere, well, yes, And it'd be nice if let's say I'm working with a bunch of different people right now. And let's say I say, oh, I want to go work with such and such from across town.

Across town, Yeah, across town. I know a guy across town.

I know a guy I like him.

Yeah, he's all right, he'll do he's a character.

He's all right, he'll do.

No.

No, But you know, so that's the thing I would say, let me go work with the guy from across town.

Yeah, really good.

Let's say maybe probably keyboard players, what I usually like to work with. And then you know, we could pick up where we left off. We could write something new. You know, say I had a different idea. Could we work on this and then sing it to them?

But the guys across town, yeah, you got to get there. But nobody are you going there?

Is he coming to you?

Probably would meet at a studio, okay, somewhere in the middle.

Do you have a favorite studio you recorded? Like, is there like an iconic place that you go that like you feel like brings out a certain mariahis.

The iconic studio of my house?

There you go. I mean, we were so happy during the pandemic when you were when you were given it to.

Us those rooms.

Yea, so we belong together in particular. That was amazing. Thank you. And also wait, shout out to that thing you did recently. There was like you and Brandy together.

Oh that was fun. We did the roof. Yes, yeah, yes, I got I need to see Brandy. Hi, Brandy, where are you.

She's a legend too, She's amazing. Just one of those like Alzheimer's all time. I would say, have you ever Oh my god, Kylie is one of those songs.

Yeah.

It's like you hear it and you're like, oh wow, and then you actually, like you attempt to sing it. It's so ranging.

But that's another because I think the beginning of that song is also.

She loves to do that. Yeah, she's really She's great at that.

Yeah.

When we were working together, she was like, we were having fun stacking yeah, adding little parts.

Because you guys together, your voice is together. It's extremely complimentary.

Well I love her voice, yeah so much.

I remember it was actually the night of the Grammys. I was with Ari and she was telling me at the time it was not officially. She was like, Mariah is gonna be on the Yes the End remix. I was like, oh, my god, yes to be such a gag and then and then we saw Miley go up and then like I just remember being such a nice moment where everybody in the room was just so happy for you.

It really was a nice moment. Yeah, even all the history that we have with the game.

They can still make it right. They can't ever really make it right, but they could do something in the middle, like we meet that.

Guy, you meet that guy, you can make it happen.

Why not we have our an awards show culture awards. You do we're doing We're doing a big venue. We might give Butterfly retroactive.

Why don't we.

Oh my gosh, that's amazing.

Album of the year, Album of the year.

We're gonna do that.

We're an official awards body. We are an official awards. But you can win the Emmy, the Grammy, the Oscar of the Tony and the cult. It's the culture awards, the culture, the colt but your culture. Culture.

So you know that.

By the way, whenever you call also from that album, that is that And I mean I loved it with you and Brian, but just how it was too like that is that's like all time Ariot to me, as well, thank you, love Awake.

Also, growing up, I remember there's an Irish band, west Life. Yeah, I love west Life. And then I mean, you have your own against all odds, you know track. But then I liked it when I really I also really enjoyed the guys.

They came up to the studio in Capri where I was working. Yeah, and that's when Simon was.

Simon kil It was Simon I think it was.

He was their manager and they came up there and we filmed it and everything. Yeah, and they the guys did their parts and I kept mine.

There's just some cute guys.

They were adorable.

They were adorable. And I love that video because it is like one of those and we need videos like this where it's and it's just shot in the studio everyone. Yeah, I mean, and you belt in that song. Yeah, oh my god, I love that song. Anyway.

Well wait, okay, before we got to I don't think so, I have to ask one more question, which I promised myself I would ask, can you drop that grunge album?

Right?

Drop it?

I'm so mad that I haven't done that yet.

But you don't have to be mad because control Yeah, yeah, yeah, do it.

I am, But who do I drop it with and we start a label?

Maybe just put it you know, it would be kind of chic if you just put it out on like a roage band or something like a grungy thing.

I could do that. It's a good album.

I want to hear it.

Oh you haven't heard any of it.

I mean we've heard, we've heard like what you allowed us to hear just those little snippets, but like we need to hear that, okay, And.

The fact that you will hear that incredible. That was just like I was getting life from that. Like yeah, you could tell seriously.

But that's like the prince in you. Like that's like the genre thing. It's like, oh it doesn't matter, like I can.

I'm a musician.

I'm an artist. I can do it in any kind of thing.

And it was jokes as well.

There were lots of seeing and I want to hear what the jokes were at that time.

I mean they're everlasting.

They are everlasting, everlasting jokes title about Okay, so now we'll do I don't think so, honey, because I'm happy we've now convinced you to release it and we can count on it.

Yes, I should no, you're right.

Honestly, and just know that no one's forgotten about it after you dangled it so okay and forgot the people. Okay. This is I don't think so, honey. This is our segment that we do on this podcast each and every time where we take one minute to rant against something in pop culture that needs a ranting. And I'm going to do it because two women really tore me up this morning.

This is Matt Rogers. I don't think so many time starts.

Now, I don't think so, honey. Hoda copy and Jenna Bushagger making me cry this morning. And I was already feeling an emotional type of way because I knew Mariah was coming and I was so excited. And then Hodah has announced she's leaving the Today Show and her and Jenna bush Haeger sobbing at each other. Mams, you didn't have to be so legendary at us. That was so emotional. They are so real, we've met them before. They are incredible. Hoda. I support you in whatever you do, but not making

Every day on Today and that's one minute. I mean it was major news, Like I was like the Times, Washington Posts, they were all like breaking hoe to copy announce that she's leaving today. It's like it's a major.

It's gonna be a huge void A man like you take for granted Hoda every day on the Today.

Show just a comfort. It was giving the broad City finale, like the two of them gay goodbye to each other. I was like, ooh these girls, Yeah, we love your Hoda and Jenna. That was a really special moment.

Okay, this is Bowe Yang's I don't think so Okay, are you ready both?

I am ready?

This is Bowyangs don't think as time starts now, I don't think so many.

Boxing Day the day after Christmas, sometimes celebrated in Canada and the US. This is the origin of Boxing Day. It was a day meant for servants and poor people so that they could get gifts. And now it's just an extra day to shop. So it's giving class. It's giving like class warfare either way you slice it. You know, it's like a holiday for poor people. It's giving, separate but equal. Just lump it in with Christmas and don't extend the holidays after the twenty fifth. We're done this guest,

Twenty fifth it's over.

It's curtain.

The holidays are a time for joy and peace and togetherness and warmth and all these cozy things. The twenty six it's a weird I don't like it. Twelve twenty six. We're in that dead zone between then and New Year's and it should stay that well.

And that's what a minute, he says on nine to twenty six New Year's overrated.

New Year's overrated because it's like, you know, I had a great time to staying in the city for New Year's this past New Year's.

Oh yeah, we stayed in the city and stuff. We usually do a trip. The trip on New Year's is always.

Overrated, definitely, because you're surrounded by drug driver yes, yes, and all of that.

Stay local, stay local, stay local, stay chill. Also, it's like when you're a kid in New Year's is fun because it's like you're staying up till midnight. Yeah, and then all of a sudden, the novelty of that is gone. It's like I'm up till midnight each and every night. There you go. I'm not a nerd anyways. Actually, these days I am going to Okay, Mariah carey, are you ready? Do you have something on your mind? Huh, there's always is something on my excited to say. This is Mariah Carries.

I don't think so, honey. Listen. I can't with the overhead lighting. Oh why do they do it to us? Why I shouldn't even say us, because it's not us, it's me. I'm the one that gets the most torture by the hideous lighting in every elevator, doorway, gyms. You know that I go to the gym. But I'm just saying it's hideous lighting. The sun. I mean, the sun is okay if it's at sunset, and then I will gladly go outside and put the you know whatever, and

The fact that we got varher carries. I don't think it's overhead lighting is at all.

Timer.

How do we do today?

Which are pretty good because these are like you know, here and here I noticed.

That, you know that. I said to them, really, I was like, let's get this lighting together.

We cannot miss on this. You guys, I think people are catching up to you, like with the lighting.

They're trying.

Yeah, well, you know now it's like we're gonna clue everybody in on this like a classic gay guys apartment now is no overheadlighting. It's just mood lighting and different. That's it. And it's a little sexier that way.

Yeah, those like soft orbs around.

What's what's the home? What's the home rank? Like, what's the home situation?

I feel that the best way is uh recessed lighting. Yeah, and then you're walking and it's like splash of light, splash of yeah. You know, if it's not anything more than that, that's needed.

Some Yes, sumptuous, I think that's a word. If you can try to include that.

After that next time.

And in a song and you know throws a song.

I did that.

I'm sure you have.

I don't know if I did.

Wait, there was mariahwa there was a word just now and you're out of things? Carass carressingle back. Okay, wait them babies. Are you excited to take them to see Wicked?

I'm excited to hang out with them whenever I can. Yeah, Like they're just always doing something else.

I think thirteen, yes, now you had them on to last year though, yeah I did.

They were twelve.

They were twelve now, but another teens or teens now.

I know, I can't think about it, I'm gonna have to rant again.

The dem babies are teens.

This is so sublime. Thank you so much for joining us.

I mean, I just can't say enough, like like I said, like I think you're so much of the reason why like I am who I am. And thank you so much for everything that you've given, of your talent, of your gift, of your songwriting. I mean, we could sit here and talk to you forever. You really are just the best and you will always be that for me, and I'm so happy to meet you.

Thank you so much.

The way you've shaped the culture and the industry and the way you've shown people how to navigate it is truly invaluable. And we all there's a hero.

We end every episode with a song. Oh and actually this one, I really want more respect on this oay, okay, dream of rescume than me, than me thing me and for the rest of that you can listen to that's not to see record by. Do not let this knowledge them O my god.

Thank you.

Last cultu Racist is the production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and The Heart Radio.

Podcasts, created and hosted by Matt Rodgers and Bowen Yang executive produced by Anna Hasnier and Hans Sonni.

Produced by Beck Ramos, edited mixed by Duck Baby and Nikla Board.

And our music is by Henry Komirski. Hey everybody, it's me Matt Rogers, letting you know. Tickets are on sale now to see me on tour, the Prince of Christmas Tour, that is, I'm doing my whole album Have You Heard of Christmas, plus a lot more with the whole band all throughout December. Go to www dot Matt Rodgers official dot com to see me in a city near you.