“In The Midnights Era” (w/ Jenifer Lewis)

don't think so. I think. I think I'm coming back. I was sitting in the steam room here in Rekya, Vik, Iceland, and I think it helped because sometimes in movies they ask you to scream a lot, and then sometimes after you scream, they have you run away. Yeah, as fast as you can. More on that later, More on that in a year after you see this film. But um

it sometimes it's hard. Sometimes after it's hard. I have to tell you, as someone who just um for an upcoming project that is yet to be announced, had to use his voice a lot. The vocals are an instrument. It's actually real culture number seventy. The vocals are instrument. Are an instrument, and you have to protect the gift. Now, speaking of a gift, someone who truly has a gift. You said a queen of a certain queen of pop

has a new song. Oh my god. Yes, the queen of pop as we all know is Hailey Steinfeld Ospit Army calabasas Resident Hailey stein And she has a new song called I Believe It's Coast with Anderson Pack and it's stellar. I came out like a month ago, and I kind of like brushed it to the side. I was like, ash dure, I'll listen to it later, like I'm I'm over here, I'm a I'm a you know, love myself girl, like I love that era. I'm a Stanfeld. I literally am such a Stanfeld, like capital letters bitch,

the way I will play capital letters down. It's an excellent song. Did you ever catch her song for the Bumblebee movie called Back to Life? That It's crazy that that did not make the Great Cool West Long Buck. I don't think there has been someone with this big of an impact on music. I don't think there's been

such a queen of pop since Rita Aura. I was gonna say Ava Max, Well it wait, can we say Ava Max has a new song and its samples, Can't Fight the Moonlight with Leon Rhymes and let me tell you something, Maxinistas are eating breakfast, lunch and dinner in the words of Colin Farrell Sex Tape With this one, the vocals are giving you everything you could desire from one of the girls. The production is top notch and the Maxinistas there is a sale at your at your

favorite store. There really is. There's a sale at your favorite store. Oh my god. Where to work that? In? Way to work the lost culture? Is this phrase into that? I mean the word bop has been used. You know, I did not watch the amaze Did you watch them? No? Because I find them to be totally irrelevant And then then and then and then some All it takes is one person. There could be people at the vim as, There could be a hundred people in the room at the VMAs, and none of them, nine of them make

them irrelevant. Well, I would say I was gonna say that. There seemed to be some effort in trying to make them iconic again this year, like a lot of a lot of the press leading up to it was like Nicki Minaj and you know, l O cool J and one other person we're co hosting. Yeah, sorry to the third person, I forget who it is. But like that was like there was a lot of like hype around, like,

oh my god, the vs could be iconic again. Um, a lot of recap throwback videos of like what was your favorite like iconic VMA moments and the red carpets were I think great, this was a good red carpet. I would say I would agree for what I've seen was good. Also, anytime there is an iconic same sex kiss on the v M as like you know it's gonna garner headline. Congrats to bad Bunny for wearing our

culture as a custome. Um. But I would say probably the most iconic moment outside of Dove Cameron winning Best New Artist had to be when Taylor Swift, in an acceptance speech for Video of the Year, which was well earned for all too well, turned her damn face to the crowd and announced her and then Bowen Yang. We were thrust head first into the Midnight's era with a Da Vinci code cipher to unlock what do you think the clues are? What do you think the clues are giving?

This is what I'm forecasting for the storm ahead, and I want to say something. I have a history of being right about this stuff because I actually predicted reputation, and I predicted predict you did you? Okay, well, let's just back it up. Respect. Why I feel like there's disrespect come in my way? There's no disrespect. I just want to I just want to make sure that we don't give ourselves too much credit, because I think you did not predict reputation. You said, I've heard from sources.

No no, no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no. You mistake yourself in the words of Hamilton's because what happened was when all of the stuff went down with Kanye and Kim and Taylor, I said, I predicted. I'm like, her next phase, her next iteration is going to be dark Taylor. I'm telling you, I said, she's going to commit to the villain. In the words of Diana Jenkins, you want a villain here, I am, You're really I just gotta say,

Matt isn't top form. He's quoting the right quotes, but I just want to say that you're the prediction was that one? You were like, well, first it was dark Taylor. Sure, and then you were like, I would like her to give I think she's gonna give Pat Benatar, which I don't think she did. No, but rock sound immage, big sound made means sound like a rock okay, And then

I think, finally you did land on. Sources have told me that her next album is moving in a hip hop direction, which I did not have sources at the time. I wasn't as plugged into the Hollywood machine as I am now, as an as you and I are, of course on the A list, I wasn't as plugged into the Hollywood machine as I am now. I didn't have sources. So if I did say sources told me, I was simply lying. You and I, Oh my god, Yeah, what a what a long way we've come with Taylor. It's

like it's like us j Lo. Then that's like the most wild Oh my wait, we we hold on a second. First, we we are getting into that. But when can I say one thing can I make a prediction about? And then I would like to hear if you think this is moving in the right direction. Yeah, the aesthetic and the vibes I'm feeling for me, it's giving lost in translation and being such great Heights postal service. It's giving death Cab vibes. It's giving that feeling of early aughts.

It's giving maybe even a little something corporate. It's giving still continuation of Emo Taylor, but what happened when that got a little electronic. It's giving sleepless nights literally in the theme. Can we just talk about how the theme is genius, just like the like the way that no one has like zoned in on something that specific. I'm really into it and really, yes, the character will reform in this type of music. How do you feel about that?

That's great? I I am in total agreement. I was telling you that from the aesthetics from the two promo photos we've seen, I was like, we might be getting like nineties arts rock, sad boy anthems, sad girls, sad today's anthems. Death habit is perfect. I would love if she sprinkled in a little bit of Chris per Rabbit and there are some dashboard king. It might be none of those things, but I'm excited that it's a Fall Taylor album because guess what, we kind of had a

revisitation during Red Taylor's version. I'm saying folklore and evermore were summer and winter. We're getting fall. We're getting new fall Taylor for the first time in years, in years, five years to be exact. Let's not forget the power that Taylor has during autumn. Oh my god, there will be a single before sept I will say this because Mama, I know, wants to be in the Grammy conversation for

this year. It's giving shake it off vibes where that single came and was nominated for a Record of the Year and then the album Album of the Year was won the next year. Correct, And I feel as though we will get a sing goal. I don't know how soon, but I think within the month. And that probably is necessary because and I know you have thoughts about this, the date of October one is quite always a way,

quite always the way. It is the traditional area of release for Taylor pre Lover, and I think that's important. This is her tenth album. She she does not We're not gonna it's not gonna be until album thirteen do we get something this major. You're right, she knows that this is going to be big. And I'm telling you in agreement. It's the centennial in a way. The concept is genius. It's genius. We've all stayed up at the strike at the stroke of twelve, going wow, my thoughts

are the most internal and private at this time. And and and this is and it's it's giving range of emotion and experience. It can be sad anthems, it can be party bops, it can be she can she can play what she can play with all her colors, basically of the wind. And I really think that also it is in the midnight hour, and I think the title of up is in the midnight's era, in the midnight's era. And it is at this time that we realize, in being kept up by these thoughts, what is truly important

to us, what is preoccupying us. Therefore, there is the immediacy, the lyrical immediacy that we are about to get. Do you understand, everyone out there listening, do you understand that we are about to get likely a tour in the summer and in the past four albums, rumor has it, it's about the it encapsulates the past four albums. We're

getting lover more, Lover, lover more. Ever, midnights we are getting and I want everyone to really grab onto something right now before I say this, it's giving, Spring, Summer, fall, Winter. It is giving. Literally, if we are to put together a set list of like the five best of all those four albums, and let me direct, because I have ideas about how to transition from starting Big Summer tour

right big summer stadium tour. Start with Lover right, open with cruel Summer fucking let the girls have the cruel summer moment that we never got to open the tour. It's go through the highlights of Lover. End with the song Lover transition into Folklore, the lights come down, the Mason Jars co up, give me five. From Folklore transition into Evermore, we see the energy started to get a little bit more sexy and witchy. Slap us in the head with whatever is happening on a nights on Core

Greatest Hits, the way we're about to eat. I'm sorry, m M. Do you feel this way? I feel this way? I I really I'm trying to not hang up too many expectations because I know that Taylor will not only exceed them, but subvert them. And I don't want to be wrong. I don't want to be embarrassed when it comes.

I am smiling big and holding back at last, because do you know what I realized the listeners think, the readers think right now, they think that Jennifer Lewis is just sitting there while we do this, and this is our intro, that Jennifer Lewis is just sitting there. That the Jennifer Lewis episodes are called in the Midnight's era it show biz legend being co opted by Taylor's Swift.

She would have screamed into this conversation. She would have, Oh, yeah, do you think Jennifer Lewis would call Taylor Swift a quote crazy motherfucker? I think you think Jennifer Lewis, I think I think that's the compliment that's the highest. And so let's just say Jennifer is not here right now, because well do you want to say, I'll say okay.

So I had hubristically thought that I could record this episode because I was not going to one miss the episode with Jennifer Lewis or so I intended for the world, and too, I did not want to reschedule her too abruptly. So I had suggested a slight scheduling change. Um, but it was gonna be the day that I was traveling and I didn't realize what the dates were until you know, it was coming up on the day and thought I could record from the lounge. This goes into my I

don't think so, honey later. Um uh, it's it's the airport. Airports aren't a crisis right now, let's just say it, but specifically one airport is the most egregiously bad airport and we need to stop pretending like it's a fun place to go. More on that later. Um And anyway, I could not make it. I had to FaceTime Matt and A in emotional duress last minute say I think you gotta do this alone, but I have faith in you.

And I was like, and I honestly want to listen to a one on one conversation between you and Jennifer people as post stars, as scene partners. Yeah, I loved my conversation with her, and I missed her so much and I'm so lucky to call her my friend. And like, I was looking really forward to introducing you to her and seeing guys dynamic. But I think you'll really enjoy the episode. So that's coming up in just a bit. Everybody but Bowen and I wanted to get on because

I just did. It didn't sit right in my spirit, not having you on that episode at all. I said, it just didn't sit right in my spirit. I need to connect with the Diva doll. And then the way that Taylor like sort of introduced the concept of the Midnight's Era to the world, I was like, Okay, so I'm feeling like God is good and now we needed to wait. Yeah, and I'm so glad we did. And that's how that God is in the room. And I

need to say that. Um. Jennifer is promoting her new book Walking By Join These Streets, fantastic fantastic book, a follow up memoir to her best selling memoir The Mother of Black Hollywood. I read through it, loved it so many wonderful stories. It's undeniable that it's just coming from her truth like she it's it's her voice like throughout

the whole thing. And Um, there's a fun, beautiful cosmic connection to ch Angela, between Angela and her and Angela and this podcast because it is also the other the only other time that Matt has had to host this podcast solo, and I think it's very special and without spoiling anything, listen to the end for a treat Okay, listen to the end for a treat um. But before we get into that, there are just current events really are happening as we speak this week because we have

to discuss this don't worry Darling situation. So for the readers who are illiterate on this particular pop culture news item, that don't worry Darling press tour. God is not in the room on this one. God is not on the zoom calls. God is not in the uh, he's not on the pr team. I thought this movie looked incredible when the trailer came out. I love a you know, it feels like it's like some dark sci fi satire.

I love the cast. I loved Book Smart Mama. The way that this press tour is falling apart, no one can get along. There are no real heroes and villains. Maybe Florence is the only one that kind of comes out of this, comes out of this looking the least ridiculed.

Florence is because because she's removed herself entirely from it. Okay, So for everyone that doesn't know, basically, it all started when Jason sudeikis served Olivia Wilde with custody papers while she was like, you know, speaking at convention for Don't Worry Darling, So she sort of had, you know, the press and like the the whole like media narrative was very much on her side because he did this horrifying thing to her and he claims it wasn't on purpose,

but I don't know about all that. Yeah. So then it's like, there's the rumors that Florence doesn't like Olivia because Olivia started sleeping with Harry Styles on the set of Don't Worry Darling, and Florence is very close with Jason Sudeikis because Zach Braffe is a director on Ted Lasso, and Florence hasn't posted about the movie, and Harry is like not having the easiest time PR wise right now because of the queer you know, baiting or what have you,

and his lack of um intelligence when he speaks on that subject. Sorry everybody, but that's what it is. And then Olivia does that like big article and I guess variety or something she did like a big piece, which

were you not talking about? How like, oh, like you would think that's a good pr choice for her to do Variety for her to be um to to do something in a trade so that one she can be regarded as this director who is really having this wonderful project come to light with all this press that she has to do damage control over. But then the piece kind of I don't know, it's it's like maybe what the movie is trying to like portray, which is that like things are not what they seem and sometimes the

aesthetics of something really don't communicate that much at all. Like, but I think that's like what I'm taking away from all this is that like these people are ultimately actors. I don't know, I just I just think that, like it's like like okay, So basically fast forward to this Olivia mentions that she had fired Chila buff from the Hairy Styles World because she has a no assholes policy, which woo who we love that very novel idea. Um as if like you're you can be in control of

people's personalities in Hollywood. Um. And then uh Shaya comes out and sends to Variety directly these receipts, these emails, these notes, this video of Olivia driving, which iconically starts out with her going sha a shay a, Shaya sorry, I'm study from riding my horse and I'm like, girl,

you've lost us already. I'm already you've lost the thread with the I mean like it's so I mean, like, say, what a Shaya is a monster and truly despicable, but also like, and this is not to compare anybody's behavior, but it's like Olivia got caught in a lie after she did this whole women are the future, you know, peace in variety um where she basically throws Florence unto the bus and says Florence has to come to Missflow has to come to her senses. It's so weird and

everyone is so fucking icky. I will think ultimately the fatal flaw that she made. And again, I will definitely see this movie. And I actually heard the script is so so I don't think that this is good for it, but I will say I'm still going to see it because well, first of all, I love Florence Pew and I think she's fabulous, and I was gonna see the

movie and I will see it still. But this is the problem is it's if you're gonna do a big piece like that, it's one thing to lie to your actors to manage them, you know what I mean, Like if you need to say to Hyla Buff, look, I really need to want you in the movie. Still I get it, Like like Florence is difficult. If you need to say that to him, two things, don't put that

in writing or on video. And two like, understand that if you said that to him, and this is someone that has nothing to lose at this point, and then you try to try out a story that's a lie and that and you misrepresent the truth, he might say something about it, and he did. So what you've done is you've made it public that you were condescending about your OSCAR nominated lead actress and diminishing of her. So, ultimately, if I'm Florence Pew, I don't want to promote this

movie either. Why because she values herself as a professional and propress his work, and this work environment has become unprofessional and toxic. So she's gonna do venice I heard, and then do nothing else, which I say that feels right to me. This director is she's just not running the stuff. Well, no, it's there's some contempt there or whatever. Not to sound like I know what I'm talking about. Like it's it's really really a bummer. I don't love

thinking about it. Um. I was talking about it with some friends and this is not I'm sorry. I don't mean to make this about me, but someone was like, you should do that would be an iconic lips think if you lips ink to the video like I mean, yeah, back in the day, bow and yang like one, I would have bow and yang one point I would have done. I'm sorry, I'm sweaty from riding my horse. I you know I still love. I still love dreams because all

roads lead back to morning show. I still have dreams, stress dreams sometimes that I'm gonna meet Reese weather Spin and who's gonna be like, I know you recorded my giving her a twin. She'll be like, you did that lips that give me getting arrested. Maybe I think maybe she's seen it, and maybe she doesn't like it because it as a terrible moment in her life. I think that everyone should have a sense of humor about the

things that go wrong. And also, I I will say till the day I died, that is when I really started stand me too. Because the next day she goes on the morning shows. The next day she goes in the morning shows and played it perfectly where she was like, I was drunk, I was stupid. And then and then they were like you said you were pregnant. You pregnant. She goes, No, I don't know said that pregnant legend. I love that. Yeah, I mean it was immediate accountability,

which it's not like we see people taking it. And also like that, I mean it was a teachable moment. It was someone like really leaning on her white privilege. I mean that was crazy. Like if that had happened now, I think she would have gotten a lot of hell. But you know what I mean, Like, I think that it's an lipting opportunity that you absolutely, as the king of liptings at the time, couldn't just pass up. Maybe maybe I will still do I love it. Maybe I get Maybe I get in there. No no, no, maybe

I get in there. This iconic woman. I'm not gonna like work with her whatever. I don't know that that's true. The thing is like, and here's the thing. It's like I'm not saying Olivia Wild And this is the annoying

part of no, no, no, that's what we're saying. There's a lot like piling, like the Twitter pylon is too much, as it always is, but you can't have some nuance as you look at this situation and go oh man, like that is a sign of bad directing where you know you're you're you're just being subterfugi about like everybody and you're you're lying and you're not making sure your actors are like taken care of. Yeah. I will say that the email that Shaya made public was so like

Namas stay. It was so like, hey, I hope you're so well. You should see my daughter grow anyway you lie or here are the receipts and then to drop them off and then literally end up being like, I truly hope the best for you. I was like, Mama, this is Housewives. It's giving the real Housewives of wherever they shot that film Palm Springs. Lisa Arenna could never Lisa Wrenna could never, which we briefly talked about jl firing Virgos from do you not hear about this? No?

Tell me all about it? Oh my god. She fired

Virgos just because she doesn't like virgo energy. So Heather Morris, who famously played Britney Espierce, unkly who was famously before that backup ancer for so many people Beyonce JL set on a podcast interview recently, then JL hates Virgos and has fired people on her I think not her staff, but definitely her backup dancing or just people on her her dancers basically for being virgos, which is that is iconic, iconic, the perfect time to mention that we're in Virgo season.

This is is lining up so perfectly after Renissans comes out, after a song called Virgo's Groove is in all of our minds. I mean literally, the world's most famous virgo is stomping the yard right now, stopping the yard after JL is doing a fake plantation wedding where you know, she um like, there's just so much going on here, and I think it's all fantastic. And this is not to say that like I think any less of JLO. It's just it's just so crazy how all of this

is happening. The JLO news of the past two years has been sumptuous. Yeah, I mean, she's certainly in an era. I mean she's in her she's in her benefit two point l era, she's in her post hustlers. I didn't get the nomination. So fuck y'all. I did the Super Bowl. She's in She's in her post apex apex. Yeah, that's what is happening. She is in her chares Ard. But your chars Ard is your apex. Now she's back to char Mander. And you think she's that char Mander, you

think she's all, you think she's a again. I'm just thinking she's a chars Are. But the chars are like, don't don't spit fire the way that he You know what she's giving, she's giving cranky Charis remember when the

Big Bill. Basically the moral lesson of that era of Pokemon was that Ash allowed char Million to evolve too early, and so remember when Ash had to like sucking asshole but literally get rude, cranky, Like literally Charles was giving diva behavior like it was giving not doing what was told. It was very much giving, barely even coming out of the poke ball as if it was a goddamn trailer on the Sony lot. And Charis Art says, I won't come out of my poke ball, not for no one.

I said, get the director to come to me. Meanwhile, you have like fucking professionals, you have piggiotos waiting in their balls. Florence Pugh's just being like, Hi, um, you're making this a toxic environment. You're I'm not doing press for you. Wait. Literally, there is no actress that gives Piggioto more than Florence Pew And I am so proud there you really she really does give Piggioto and Piggioto is I. I remember when when I had a pigeon.

I was just gonna say, like when my Pokemon Piggioto was evolving to Pigot, I was like, I know this is something beneficial to me, but like, I don't want this girl here. I'd rather have Piggioto, Like that's my diva doll. Like that's personally for me, my girl. Yeah, Like I understand kids have to grow up, but in so many words, I don't think so, honey. You know what I'm saying. I think I do. I really think

I do well. Which speaking of that, because you will not be able to join me for this next um segment of the podcast, because it's my really great interview with Jennifer Lewis. You did not get to do and I don't think so, honey. Would you like to do it now because I know something that's on your mind, spirit and heart. I would love to then at this time I will ready the phone, which is how I keep time for I don't think so, honey. This is Bowen Yang's early a third of the way into the episode,

and I don't think so, honey. This really doesn't happen very often. But it's happening today tonight wherever you're listening to this, and it's time starts now. I don't think so, honey. John F. Kennedy International Airport, every damn terminal, everything about this fucking place. Why did we ever think for a second that it was any better, any measure better than LaGuardia was ten years ago. LaGuardia is that girl now, make no mistake. LaGuardia is a pleasure to have in

class now that she's undergone the reserv renovation. But John F. Kennedy has always been garbage. It's horrible to get to no matter how you get the only the big draw of it now is to go to the tw A Hotel. Honey. I don't want to be in a Stanley Kubrick movie,

you bitch. I want to fly out of there. And why did you make it so difficult for me to just find a lounge to go to and have a private quiet spot to record my podcast with legend, Hollywood legend Jennifer Lewis, my best friend's co star, Jennifer Lewis. Terminal seven is the worst, worst, worst, worst part of New York City period, the worst people, the worst fucking place to be. Oh my god, you had been there

with me. If you had been there with me that day trying to figure out how to get into that damn lounge, you would have snapped along with me because it's that flop International Lounge, right, it's the flop International Lounge, but they make it fucking hell. They you solve ten fucking bridge troll riddles to get inside. I went through security. Then they said because I had my my my boarding past for this international flight print printed from my original

uh place whatever. I won't get into it, but they were like, you need a written letter of permission at the British Airways Satellites Lounge, which is fucking trash dealt. It will forever be that girl. You can never be Delta Lounge, you can never be American Express Centurion Lounge. It was disgusting. It's run by all these gate keeping. Motherfucker's literal gate keeping is that it's worst at the lounges.

Shall we say, I'm sorry. I know it's hacked to complain about air air travel, but it was it what it is, what it is. It's like, you can't it's not hack if it's like a universal human experience that, for whatever reason, everyone hates traveling via air. I don't blame Taylor sometimes for flying the job. I'm serious JFK. I had to tell Wait Matt literally for Simmon's Baseball. I had to tell I had to tell people on

our team, on our management team. It was like, no more flying out of JFK, nomber flying in or I was like LaGuardia is LaGuardia as the default from going forward. It's it's I'm a JFK girl. No, I think I think it's just because I think it's just because I can be so autopilot there now, because I fly in and out of there so much that I don't have to literally at all, even look up from from like I can just go, go, go, go, go and go exactly what I want to go and get on the

plane because I don't want any nonsense. But honestly, I do have to see what LaGuardia is giving now post renovation, because I haven't seen it. It's giving everything that can be given and gotten. It's giving clamor, it's giving beautiful water features. Matt. I know you fly Delta. The Delta terminal JFK is decent. But if you think about if your gate is fucking be of any five or whatever, the funk if your number is in the double digits, the walk is gang. You are walking and you can't

at a certain point, you can't. You can't do that. No, I literally you are actually slaying when you say this, because there have been times where I'm like, it's like twenty minute walk to get there. It's a it's crazy. Yeah, LaGuardia has it figured out. Fear. There's this new girl in town. She's not so new, she just went through a makeover. Fiarello. LaGuardia Airport, the school and the airport are pumping out hits, planes and talent. LaGuardia is in

her Terry Hatcher Desperate Housewives era. Absolutely yeah, Guaria is Desperate house Era again. It's so hacked. My last two out of my last three and thinks to have been about airports. But this has been my life recently and it's my reality. And take it to court. Okay, take it to court. Okay. Before we get into this Jennifer Lewis interview, we do want to break some news that we said online, but we just want to stay it here on the podcast. The the Katies Era is complete.

That is no longer what you are all called. You are the readers again. We celebrate and support everyone who really tried to make the Katies Era sing, but we have decided to bail on it. And that's okay because we never have made any other mistakes doing this podcast, so it's okay. This was our first. I wouldn't say that was a mistake even No, you're right, and I'm sorry to us for saying that. No, sorry to us, and I will say kind of in a spicy statement.

It seemed pretty split, and not even split evenly, but there was just a I will say, a vocal minority that was like no. And then we announced that Katie's was no more. The less vocal majority finally found their voice, shall we say, and said wait, I wait, I didn't I liked it, but sometimes the vocal minority wins, and that is not but let me be clear, let me be clear, this is not customer service. Okay, this is not customer service. There's a decision that we are making

because we feel the readers. That's who you are, absolutely and this is why you get out there and vote. This is why you have to make your voice heard. And I'm so serious, I am you have to register to vote. Was heard because what was what is coming up is the mid terms and from the looks of things, we have a lot of work to do well. To do well. Enjoyed this conversation with the legend Jennifer Lewis. Bye bye. I don't know if you notice, Jennifer Lewis,

but I'm wearing my robe for you. That's the first time I don't have a roller ball. Honestly, I'm not used to seeing you not be robed. And sometimes I said, I see you in the two robes, which is how you know she's at work. Did you read the two couple of paragraphs on the rope? Oh you know that. I had to get up and walk around with a book in my hand wearing that because I was like, I know, this is boss. I know this is Jennifer. Your as up. I'm wearing two robes. I'll leave a alone.

Trying to contain the charisma, Well, it's it's uncontainable charisma. I'm so excited you're here, and I'm so excited about the book Walking in My Joy in the Streets probably one of the best titles I've heard. How just stumble upon the title. It's just kind of who and what I am. It's just what I do, mad I mean, you see me on said if I'm the only time I'm not like laughing and joking and playing around is when I'm really in my lines. You know, I show up to do my job, but I can't do my

job if I'm not in my joy. So um, it was just so funny that first day I had that big speech, and I remember all of you were sitting there like little puppies, panting, Oh the great Jennifer Lewis, listen to your little ships. I don't know one fucking line of this script. They're not getting a great Jennifer Lewis today. Here's the rule. Shut the funk up. So I does it right, And y'all were like, damn all right,

well ship, but it was just so fun. But for the reason I have been able to bring Patricia too, I love that for you as well as I have. And don't think for one minute I don't know that my next work it's my best work because I'm able to create an environment that is joyful. How can you? I mean, there's not uh weak link in the cast. I mean, I don't have to walk over to an executive producer and sixty five years old, having been in this business two hundred and ninety three years, and say,

what is going on over there? And what do you expect me to do with that person who is not present and who is not here that have hired. I have not had to make that speech everybody. I mean, I just wouldn't dream of showing up with Jennifer Lewis and not bringing my A plus plus game. And you're making me better, and you make me so much better than I ever thought I could be because of what you bring and the stuff that you say to me. So I mean, it's just just know that that I'm

feeling every minute of it. I mean, first of all, our relationship in the show, it's so intimate, and you know, having had so many assistants and they like Murphy Brown. I fire them weekly. Um big, So you don't know my middle name? You name, motherfucker, I don't know. You were walking into a storm. You know. It's crazy. I have been compared to the elements. I don't remember a review that I didn't I uh, Tornado her It's New York. Now, I'm twenty two years old. What was I supposed to

do with that? You know? But anyway, I love being on the set of I love that for you, and I love everybody on the set. That is so rare, my friend, that is so rare. And with that loving, supporting, professional energy, I am able to move in a tight g that I've never really felt before. You know, I'm from the center and and you and I mhm, let me find the word. Well it is it is energy, but it's more than it's the consciousness and the energy. Um,

those being the only two things that really exists. Let's just let's just say right now that I am I'm looking forward to the next season. I know we're gonna get picked up. I know it in my heart. I know it because I can feel it. I can feel it too. Yeah, I'm trying to see myself somewhere else and I can't yet, I know, you know, Okay, so we just shared. We just shared a visual moment podcast. You know that ship out there. If they don't pick us up there out of there, fucking mind. Let agree

with you. Yeah, they'd be crazy, they'd be crazy. You know. I also feel like what I what I really take from like our time together on set, is I remember

and this is just one of many examples. And I wanted to ask you a question based on this, which is I remember one day it was where we were doing the scene where where Patricia gifts Darcy the bag, and you were, um, we were walking through the scene and you were saying, how u as Jennifer, we're feeling emotional about the scene because you know, this was a moment of vulnerability for Patricia and it was also a moment where she was showing Darcy that he means something

to her. And as you were preparing the scene, I remember you said out loud, but she is not going to be emotional like I am about this, because Patricia is she's rock solid, she's icy, and she would never

betray that. And you said to me, you know the way you have an effect on the audience is you don't cry, they cry, And I've actually I wanted to tell you that There's been several times and projects that I've done since that where I've employed that and I felt it really has been effective, where I actually I tried so much to not be indulgent in what I was doing and rather actually have the much more human emotion of trying to manage myself and letting the camera

are letting whatever it is pick up on that. And I just wanted to tell you that that was I think one of the most indelible pieces of acting advice I've ever had. And I wanted to ask you if you could remember a time where you were on set or working with another actor and they told you something that immediately made sense and you've remembered probably countless times,

all countless times. Uh. One of the biggest ones was Tom Hanks when I worked with him passed away and I was so nervous that first night, uh of shooting. I mean, Tom Hanks, for God's said Robert robertson Mecca's is directing, and and here I am. I mean, I'm I remember so well because I was studying the Jackie's back script in the trailer that night, and Tom Hanks came up behind me, and Jesus, what a moment. He thought I was rehearsing. He thought I was studying our

scene that we were about you. I was studying Jackie's Back. Yeah, So he looked over my shoulder and saw one of the lines from the Jackie's Back script that was eventually cut because the scene in Jackie's Back where I'm standing at the theater and I've got that mink hat on pita is across the street protesting the Mink Act, where

Jackie Walkington didn't care. Oh, Tom Hanks looks over my shoulders and reads the line that Jackie Washington was gonna say to the crowd of the protesters for the fur, give me back my head, bitch, snatches the hat off, and Jackie screen give me back my head, bitch. So that was the line at the top of the page that Tom Hanks read out loud in my ear in makeup and hair, and all I heard. He didn't even say, Hi,

I'm Tom Hanks. We hadn't even fucking met. He just looks at the crip because I'm not paying attention has come to the trailer. I know I'm thinking Tom Hanks, guess it's makeup on in his own trailer. But there he is reading over my shoulder and this is what you hear. Let me try to get him, give me, give me back my head, bitch, like, what the fuck?

It's Tom Hags. But the thing Tom, when we got on the set, I was I was really nervous, and he looked at after one take of the scene, he looked at me and he looked me dead in my eye and he said, don't say it if you don't mean it, just like just like that, Oh my god, don't say it if you don't mean it. Don't say it if you don't mean it. H It was so powerful because he didn't he didn't um patronized me. He didn't make me feel bad, he didn't, you know, he didn't put me down. He didn't do any of that.

He just gave me that one sentenced Because I went over to him, I said, I'm a little nervous, you know, and he said, well, just don't say it if you don't mean it. It was just so simple and and so everything. I'll tell you some of the lines. Sharon Stone. Also, when I worked with her on the mighty yeah. She gave so much off camera I couldn't believe. I mean, it was Sharon Stone, and she gave me the tears

off camera. You mean when you were doing your coverage and coverage had been my yes right during her coverage. Her coverage was first. So she she did her performance, and I, you know, would remember what she did and I would give mine, but she gave it all and I have always admired and respected her for that. She also was very sweet. She came to see one of my club acts one time. They're They're set, Sharon Stone and Gregory Hines, and be was in the audience that night.

What I mean, you know, come on, um, I know, I've always been the entertainer's entertainer. People they come to study me, they come to watch because I mean, you know, look, I perfected the cabaret scene, started the house down right, you know. The kids and dream girls used to come see me after the show. I was the show. After the Broadway shows, people would the gypsy broad Broadways gypsies would pile into Don't Tell Mama for my monthly show, and I just did him. I just kept doing and

kept doing. And that's where the real groundwork came in. That's why I wasn't too intimidated by Molly Shannon and Vanessa bel I love that for you because I've done my homework too. It was like I was on Saturday Night Live. Yeah right, and it's it's true. It's true that you auditioned for Saturday Night Live too, right, Yes I did. I sure did. I had a call back with Lauren Michaels. I can't remember what year it was,

but I was very young. I was in my early twenties and I just knew I was gonna get picked. It was one of the biggest heartbreaks of my career. Yeah, I went through something similar. Isn't it funny? Like now we get to work with people that have been also on the show, and we both also got closer. Though. It always comes around. And let me say, to all the hits listening, you must I always say I gave up many times in my career. I did, but I never quit. I didn't quit. It's when your hardest hit

that you mustn't quit. Got to be in it to win it. There's no room for you to sit down. I tell motherfucker's I'm so dramatic. I lived my life like I got five minutes left. You go, what you're gonna do with the next five minutes, Jenny, Okay, you say that's dramatic. Oh that's so much you damn straight. See, I'm six five, I got thirty summers left. I ain't got time to weight. If the fucking nine point two hit right now, I would have gone down talking to

my baby. I don't waste time. I would have gone down telling the truth. I try not to even get stressed Anymoreglo, bitch, Why when you've been in an earthquake and the tornado and the food, you know, you don't funk around with nature, the preciousness of life, how precious it is, how fragile we are, we are so gradual, and it could all be gone in a second. And that's why you've got to honor it. You got to

honor it. Yeah, as you're talking, I'm reminded of the chapter in your book about your cousin Ronnie, which moved me so much. I mean, this was such a beautiful testament, and it's such a beautiful, you know, ode to his spirit and to how meaningful he was to you. And I do, like, I I know that like it emanates off of you, but you are. It's it's almost like beyond ally ship. It's like you are an icon to the LGBTQ community. But also it's like it feels like

inherent in you. Like obviously you have a very close connection because there's a person in your life that was gay that you knew from a very very very young age, but also like can you speak to being involved in that cabaret scene and also being being around so many people like Vibrant your people in the eighties, because but it's beyond performance. It feels like it's like a lifeblood.

Oh no, daring. The performance. The performance on stage was you know, probably scripted, and they okay, right, Jennifer Lewis will go off the script in five seconds and create a whole other world. But when the show came down, you see, m Artists are different walk. We walk in a different light of life because we know we're responsible. We know we're responsible for the next trend, the next energy. You know. It's like it's like it's like a tone setting.

It's a responsibility. You can't fuck with it. You've got on an artistry because we are We go before everyone and laid the ground here's some art to look at while you're climbing your mountain. Here's a song you can sing while you're climbing in your mountain, because that's all any of us are trying to do, is climb the mountain. So the artists are there to say, here's something to encourage you. Here's a song you can sing when you get to level five. Here's a pair of beautiful shoes

that will make your feet so good. Whatever you need, we're gonna make you a shoe that's gonna cushion your foot to get to the next level. What do you need? Because we were put here to create it for you, to help you, not to change you, not to make you, but just help you, feed you as it were feed you. Here's a song, bitch. You know you ain't even got to know how to sing to sing it, to sing. Thank you. The fact that you heard it means it's in your soul all the bay there. Do what you

will with it. But here's the song, bitch. Here's a song. M. I have a song I've loved since I was a kid. It said, God give me mountains m with fills at their knees. You know, I used to think Matt that I that I had to pull everybody up. Happy I stayed alive. I'm happy I stayed around to grow to respect other people and hear what they had to say. A k A. Listen to others. Instead of it being me, me me, it's now we we we. So I found people that I could reach up and trust not to

let me fall back down. That count and that goes back to I love that to you for you. That goes back to Vanessa's warm That goes back to Molly's wholeness and your intensity and your I watch you know, I've been able to watch the show and study it. You also have a warmth and not to your looks. Don't hurt either, baby boy, just coming from the most

beautiful woman in the world. That means something. You're so precious to Just look at those little things you do, even when you slam the the cart that Patricia has made you put all over that board, the way you're going like this bit, this bitch is in your back. No, honey, I have studied all I have this bitch. I love her. God damn it, I have to put the same ship all over here. Because I heard Patricia say, put them all up there so everyone will understand that will be

no mistakes. And you're like, and I could hear Darcy thinking, fuck in your back. It's there, suck. It's such an interesting relationship and dynamic to play because there's so many

layers to it, you know what I mean. It's like there is that because because there is that, um, I find that with him it's like an irritant that he has to be obedient to someone, but he also he also does need it and he wants to be And when you have been with Banaza, when you're getting who's taking the care of her, Matt, everything is in that scene. Everything that is unspoken. I hear in that scene. But I have a fucking word you say. I hear everything

you're not saying. And that's when you know it's right. This means the world to me. No, no, no, you literally say I'm nothing. When you say nothing, when you say I'm nothing, I'm just a little spec All I hear here is all I'm hearing it. You don't I understand. I just thought that they the towns and when you when you do your hands and you go down like, oh my god. No, I'm gonna say my favorite part m this is how I know like the second season, but I love this for you. It's gonna be so interesting.

I can't wait because what I have found while looking at it and studying it. You and I are music, a young man, we're music together. That's some music ship going on. We're writing the song in this bitch, and I am loving every note. You know. I don't funk around, young man. I don't blow smoke. I watch. You're too close to me for me not to I gotta be able to see straight through you, motherfucker. Get that close

to me. I see everything. Okay, they can actually be a thousand paces the way I still see, but that up close. No, when you let me tell you the song you I don't even know if you know it. But while I'm singing and I'm feeling good, and before you push that fucking button, when you go that was it, boy, this little boy know a thing that two It was the song. It was a song within a song within

a song, and it was beautiful. I'm I'm I'm overwhelmed, and it's such a It's one of the great joys of my life to be able to to have this experience. And I'm so excited for the future of like the song as you're saying, and I will say, I was so proud and so excited to be able to be there when you got your star on the Hollywood Walk and that was so exciting to watch you at that moment. That like such a deserved moment. And I have to tell you, I didn't get to talk to you much

that day because there was so much happening. But I was shaking because I go over and I look at my chair and of course I'm like glowing, and I'm with Vanessa and we're so excited and proud of you.

And then I go over. I look, I they have a chair for me, It says Matt Rodgers on my chair, and the next chair over said two words, Brandy, Nor would Jennifer I have I When I tell you, she came and sat next to me, and I'm I'm like shaking because I have been a huge Brandy fan from a child, and she was and she was amongst dozens and dozens and dozens of people that were there, just so excited, glowing for you. What did that day feel like? Because it's not just any people. These are the most

talented people. These are the most brilliant lights. I mean, meeting all your sisters was incredible, Like, I mean, just like what did that feel like? And the caliber of people that were there to pay tribute to? I mean, Mark Shaman and Debbie Allen did the speeches. Let's go wow, baby boy, oh man, mhm to make Jennifer Lewis speeches because she's sitting in a moment that is real. It's so real. Mm hmm. Come on, you already know. I don't have to say it was. Let me try. Yeah.

Mark Shaman and I have known each other for about thirty five years, and you know he wrote Hairsprayed for me. He wrote mortemall Mouth for me, but I couldn't do it because I was on the contract with Strong Medicine. Wow. Wow, So I did get to go. I did get to go back to Broadway into it for three months, um, which was wonderful. Oh god, what a life. And Debbie Allen made my first job in Hollywood. Wow. It was a pilot with Diane Carol cab Callaway Journey, Journey, Gary Journey.

Smollett was four years old playing Debbie Allen and and I was playing uh uh, Debbie Allen's cousin, Jesse May gave me my first solo and and the great moment between Debbie and I was when we did a presentation of the pilot. It was called Sunday in Paris, when we did a presentation of the pilot for the producers, the producers which she was one, She was an executive producer,

so they were in a meeting. So when they came out of that meeting, Debbie Allen slipped me a note and she whispered in my ear they walked more of Jesse May. Yeah, of course, come on, now they want more. That's the next book. They want more. They that they want more of Jesse Met, she said, and then she went it in my issue. She said, now you listen to me and listen good. Yeah. I'm only gonna do a couple of seasons of this show and then you

can have it. But not yet, bitch, baby. She wrote a note that said not yet, bitch, that I still have. I still have that note. Not yet, bitch. You can be you can take over, because she knew I was capable of taking it over. I mean, back in those days, I wasn't even treated for my bipolar disorder. So honey, I was completely out of control. I pushed every motherfucker aside to beat to the center. And that was just no justice, that was nothing. I was a fource of

nature job. Debbie Allen was like, goddamn, this girl got talent. So ce she saw it, and she you know, all of my peers, I mean from Whoopee to Rosie to Kathy Griffin and all the people that were in Jackie's back, you know, they've been there for me. Bett Mittler, all of they've been there for me. I was the little the little kid knew on the block, and everybody wanted to make me a star. But the bipolar dis order um really stopped that whole. It was a wave coming,

but it was a wave of confusion. I was not aligned. I was willing, but I wasn't ready. I wasn't ever ready emotionally, spiritually, uh. And I just didn't know what to do with myself. Everybody was dying from a eats and I just I pretty much just lost my fucking mind. And then someone right, and and and you know you're not supposed to deal with that much death in your early thirties, for God's sake, They babies dropped like flies nobody knew what to do. Ronald Reagan wasn't doing ship,

wasn't saying ship. The government wasn't saying ship. And we all we were all lost, but I more than most because I was styke. I was not diagnosed yet. So um, I'm what can I tell you? Going back to the lg g uh B t Q community, you know, like the whole chorus like died from dream curls. I mean, it was it was the time that you guys could not even imagine, and it was a silent war kind of like this dumb coat ship. You didn't we thought it was in the air. There was a time we

didn't know if it was in the air. Yeah, it had to be incredibly scary. I mean sometimes I just I very rarely have these moments because whether it's ignorance or whatever, it's just like I I am, you know, blessed him to be living in this time and not that one. I look around whenever I'm a lot around all my gay queer friends and I think, like we're

very lucky that. I mean, this isn't a present a present like immediate threat because just the fear and terror just and to understand how vital the community is and how enriching it is, and how I'm proud I am to be a part of it. Just yeah, just life, honey. I live in my joy around the gay children love me. I love them and that's that's the way that is. And I'm gonna fight for them and they've always fought for me. And before you even a little a sahebo, yeah,

I was like, what do we rock in here? We got some? I love that. Let's finish my plate. So I got to eat a little something. You know, I still take it. By the way you're going, you're emanating right now. You seem like you're walking in your joy. Then let me tell you what happened yesterday and you will know why I'm walking to the enjoy. I want to know. The musical director of my new UH animating animation feature Spellbound with Nicole, Javier bar Damn and John

is playing my husband. I'm one of my husbands. My e's the other, like minister of the little kingdom. But anyway, they came over yesterday, honey, with all the dis knee inness of it all. Yeah, the storyboards, well no, no, you know Disney does not let out the script. Oh they don't. Okay, we only when I've done about Oh, I guess this would be my O. I think this will be my seventh animation feature. Wo but baby, your little girl was singing and Alan making song. Yes, unbelievable.

This is gonna be incredible, and I sounded so good on it. I couldn't believe I hit those notes yesterday. I I can't believe it. I mean everyone, I mean you know what, you know what else I looked? But I love that for you is they gave you that moment, and I think it was the fifth episode to sing feeling good. When you just mentioned it, just like the way you ripped that up, I was like, come on now, the moment was absolutely met crushed it. Well, you know,

I'm gonna be honest with you. The greatest compliment I got was from Mark Shaman. And Mark and I don't compliment each other because we both know if one of us gets if one of us gets one more compliment, our heads will fall off. I'll show this right, So we usually we were just pretty much putting each other down when we talked. You, no funk, do you know you when Mark Shaman, you have such incredible enriching friendships. Look at you, I mean you're overwhelmed. But yeah, because

there's so much love there, it's so much history. Yes, when Mark Shaman calls and tells you that he has never seen a more perfect lips stink, I love it. I mean he said it was perfect. How did you? I mean when Mark, you know, confused at some of my brilliance, I mean that. Yeah, I'll tell you another thing Mark Shaman did. We We went on a world tool once and we were in Iceland together. Mhm yeah, but we were in a three hundred fifty year old uh glacier. They had card uh wedding chapel of ice

inside of this glacier. You call and tell him to go there. It's pretty cool. Well, yeah, they'll drive him out. Tell him if it's a bit of a drive in Iceland to get out to that glacier, but tell him to go. It's worth it. They have to give you a suit, you don't freeze the death and their knowledge a lot of experience. Absolutely, But I got a Mark Shaman. Now, I we're walking around in this glacier in Iceland, and the guide that was taken us through all this precarious

ice and snow she turns. At one point, she says, yes, now we've entered the temple. The chapel is, does anyone sing? Oh? Man, the acoustics probably were giving everything. Yes. Actually, if you really want to know, truth is actually on you too. You can actually see. But here's the piece. Okay, when I finished singing amazing grace in that glacier mm hmm. You can hear Mark Shaman say these words, and I

got a church from guy watching all the time. But he says, uh, there, how's the amazing grace in speak to No? No, no, yeah, but yes, but no, I see and he either says I think he said perfect or or it was brilliant. I mean it was somewhere and it was one word and I'm all spring. He doesn't see this here, this interview because it will give it too much power. But when he comproments me, when Mark Shaman get me a compliment, it fucking goes in. Man.

It sounds like it was involuntary, you know what I mean. It sounds like he had an experience came so quickly, came so from the soul, which everything does. That's son of a bitch, feels everything I'm telling you. Mark shaman rocks around, and there is there is music constantly in his entire moleculous structure. You can barely get through. You can barely get through. He'll put his finger up to his ear because I'm screaming so loud, trying to get

through whatever symphony that motherfucker's writing. I'm we're eating now. Some chicken bit killed me. But you know the corn by riding a symphony. Damn, some people never stopped. I have to ask you, Um, we have a question that we ask everyone that comes on this podcast, and it causes a little bit of a deep dive, So we ask everyone, what was the culture that made you? Say? Culture was for me? So basically this is a stupid way, an ignorant way of asking the question, what was the

formative pop culture? Whether it was a film, you know, um, musical artists, something that made you Jennifer Lewis realized you or Jennifer Lewis, what was that formative culture? I actually spoke to my new assistant, Cecily, who knows you love Cecily already, and she was telling me about this this culture thing. I was like, what then is talking about? What the something that she said something that you know, And I said something like, well, georga'ss jeans, you know

I was walking around. She's telling that's a good one. But as you asked me this question, I'm gonna tell you another. Oh yeah, I used to walk down the street New York on you got to look, you got to look. Yes, And those James were so cheap and nasty. She used to always hurt you between my legs. I took those motherfuckers off and never wore them again. Y goddamn. And I'm walking in the pumps on the asphalt of a fathe going. You got the look, you got the look.

And I changed the song to my feet are hurting, my ass is hurting, and so up. I got ups. They were not practical. They can't be the culture that they were not practically. If as you asked me this question, yes, something else went through me. I wanted I've heard. What was it that that shook you in your in your in your past. Let me tell you a couple of things, whether I'm answering your question or not. Let me say

this out loud, just because it's so present. Good. It was streisan Ah, it was Judy Garland, Sinatra Harl Bailey. It was those gods, yeah, that snatched my soul out of my goddamn rib gauge and said, this is who you are. Mrs Lewis, was it the storytelling of what they were able to do? What was it do you think that made you connect to these like vocal storytellers? Like? What was it about them? Because that is the that is the the connecting tissue that I find in those

names that you say. It's the it fact. To my it is a chrisma that cannot be bought. It can only be polished. You have to be born with it. It is game nose game. You have it, man, darling, you have you No darling, I don't blow smoke baby. You have the fact that you wouldn't be able to stand next to me if you come on. Yeah you wanna quit? You would? I can't that, but that bitch I ain't done it. Chuniber lords. I can't, But you didn't. You're stepped up? Or should I say you stepped in?

You know who you are. You're young, but you know who you are. We're all unfinished projects. We're all climbing that mountain. We're all reaching back to somebody we love We're all reaching up to somebody we respect. Mm hmm. It is a chain of love and some of us. I'm sorry we were given just a little more. I'm sorry we just were I don't know how it works. I don't know what God is thinking, or who did what or who did I don't know, but I know I came in this bitch singing, and I'm gonna go

out of this bitch sings. Yeah. Oh. You know, my mother, when I was very very young, she like raised me on the movie Funny Girl. So I think I may have been like four or five the first time I really watched Barbara deliver those numbers. Specifically, the moment, the moment that I can really remember is seeing her sing my and at the end of Funny Girl, and just the way that she belts out the world for the word forever more at the end of that song, and

it closes the film and she she in silhouette. The lights go down in black and she's in silhouette and she's just bathed in the glory of what she's just done. But what it was, it was all of the emotion of that entire two hour, forty minute film put into one No it was just like and so when you say her name, I'm like, wow, that really is what it is. It's just an immediacy and an ability to channel. And that was the moment for me too. But my

moment was right on my parade. Yeah, when that bitch went don't and then another don't tell me, and then when she got on that motherfucking boat and hit that motherfuck So that lasted eight hours. I was I was babysitting. You never forget moments like I was babysitting. And when she hit that note, yeah, and also holding the center of that shot when she when she did that, I knew you that I would hit that fucking note and hold it that fucking yeah, I have in my youth.

I'm sure have you sang that song? Are you kidding? Don't don't don't don't, don't, don't don't And they didn't know the word was bop, but the word was bop. All you are. All I have to hear is don't don't, don't don't. I mean it's and it was also I don't know, there was that just been moments. You know, when you when you hear the voice of Nelson Mandela, when you're when you're privy to looking Michelle Obama in her eyes and seeing her grace through her eyes. This

was an amazing part of the book. Yeah, everyone has to get this book. Yeah, I'm talking moments of life. Yes, I mean I'm talking about human greatness. And boy is greatness? Is Mr lewis greatness? And by the way, take this in. There are no shortcuts to it. See when you see when you put a word great on a human being, they did some ship because they got there telling the truth. That's some real ship. You can't lie your way to great this motherfucker. You gotta stand in your truth, the

whole truth, and nothing but the truth. That's why the con artists in the book got eight years because when I read, when I read my victim statement, I brought the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Didn't need God to help me because it was the whole truth. Do you understand? Yes, I've been given the strength to say no to injustice that should happened to me. I said to myself, if I am in this much pain from being conned and scammed, what other people must

be going through. See, I have the tools to work through any fucking thing that comes near me, I'm like, morphous and fucking matrix, bring it bit where you had come on what you got, because we got. All we can do is sit at the table and work through it. But when you get to a situation where you can't work through it, I'm telling everybody in the world, let that ship go. That's the moment where you have to say, okay, time to grow up and move the funk on. No

matter how painful it is. You may change nobody. You can't make somebody do something that you want them to do how you want them to do it. Mm hmm. That's not that that doesn't belong to you. What belongs to you It is how you feel about what did you do with it? Who did help and who did you defend? And did you take your responsibility? Because there's

always a two great fucking street. I don't even know how I got off on that, but it sounds no. But I want I want everyone to know, for everyone listening, that you must read this book because this was This was another thing I didn't know actually, is that you found yourself in a relationship with someone that became romantic and the person was a full scam artist. Who is I guess now in prison because he was conning women into being in romantic relationships with him and taking all

their money to fund fraudulent businesses. And this was something that I was really shook by because you're so kind and so strong. I was like, God, this guy must have been a real sicko. And these people are really good at what they do, aren't they. You have to

watch out for some of these people. And I just wanted to ask, like, when do you decide so when you talk about acting on something like that, because you knew you were going to do something about it, because pretty immediately you did go to the police, and um, it developed from there in terms of getting this guy, you know, serving serving justice or what happened? When does it? When does it stop becoming I'm in pain and hurting about this? And when how soon does it do you

make the decision to act? Was it immediate or and how much grieving process went into the end of that relationship? My what to do? Was it immediate? Because I'm an out I don't sit around and well before treatment, before treating my bipolar disorder, when chaos madness would occur, I would become part of the madness and the chaos all out, don't know what to do, go crazy, you know, start crying, can't stop crying. Things are wrong now, not anymore, darling,

not after this many years of therapy. Whenever it happens, because that phone one thing, you know, if the phone is gonna ring, no matter, you can be skipped, towing through the tulips or whatever the funk you want to do with your life. But that phone is gonna ring, and somebody's gonna be dead at some point. M somebody's gonna have to have a heart attack. Somebody did this,

somebody it's coming. You know. That was a movie, The Untouchables with Kevin Costner and Sean Connery, and Sean Connery has been shocked and he's bleeding to death, and Kevin Costner has come to him and asked for his assistance. Well, now having given him his assistant assistance, he's been shot and he's dying and he looks up at Kevin Coston as he's bleeding to death, and he asked him, what

are you prepared to do? M hmm. You're gonna go to the train station and kill this motherfucker, or you just gonna let me lay on this floor and bleed and you do nothing about it. I say a lie long enough to tell you where this motherfucker is that killed me? Now, what are you prepared to do? So that's why I asked myself every fucking day, because something's coming every day. What are you prepared to do? Jenny? Did your journal? Did your journal about it last night?

Did you right down last night? Get in the pool? See it's just step by step. Yeah, there's no frivolity involved in living on on purpose. See the count artists got in because I wasn't paying attention. Oh I was getting my honorary doctorate degree, getting a lifetime Achievement award, and he was just over there and I was like, okay, Babby, I'll be back. Yeah, I'm I'll invest in that. Yeah sure, and then I'm off on the plane. Well guess what

that is, Matt. That's called arrogance, it's called omnipotence, it's delusions of grandeura, and it's grandiosity. Well. Ms Lewis, maybe next time you'll pay attention, Mrs Lewis, maybe there's a new lesson to learn. How about you pay attention. You're paying attention, Jenny, or you just flailing your arm, like, let somebody else take care of it, right this man in your house, in your life, in your home, in my bed, in between my legs, and thank you, I lie,

excuse me god, you send me a fucking con artist. Yeah, let me tell you how immediate it was. Yeah, it was immediate. I went to the police immediately, I called TMZ. I wanted that motherfucker's face all over the world so he wouldn't hurt other women. Let me tell you something my therapist told me when that happened. And let me be very honest, it is one of the worst things that have happened to me. But in hindsight, once we say oh it's the worst thing that happened to me,

it was the best thing. I would not have been able to write either of these books had that motherfucker not come into my life. I would not have been able to write The Mother Black Hollywood, because, you see, the con artist's story was the worst thing that ever happened to me. So if you give the worst story away, here you go. Here's the molestation, here's the pregnancies, here's the abortions, here's the sex addiction, here's the mental health. You gave it away, because why do I always say

we are as sick as our secret. That's right, I did it, motherfucker. Bring it on, Bring it on. You can't come for me, come for me. Yeah, I did it, but I gave it back to health and that made me happy. Yeah, was I embarrassed yours? It has to be very vulnerable, stupid. Yeah, I've lived the spectrum. I've gone from Florida, reach Port, the rich. I've lived the spectrum. Bitch, I'm from the street. Who gonna check me? Boom? Well, bit I can't. You got checked. You got con out

of fifty grand. Now go and mourn if you will, and then get the funk up and keep going and keep going the truth, Jenny. Yeah it hurt, Yeah, it hurts. It hurts like hell. But how about you tug on so journalous truth skirt right now and get up. Yeah.

It's also important for strong people to show vulnerability and to and to also express the ways in which they have been knocked down, because I think that is something I think also to with the entertainment industry is when we step on stage, like obviously, you exude a strength and you exude almost like an invincibility, especially when we when when we're these types of performers like you are and the ones that you've mentioned. But also the vulnerability

is why we fall in love with them. It's why we remember my man, you know what I mean. Duty Remember Judy Garland, Judy Garland on the Judy Garland Show. I think it was two nights after John F. Kennedy had been shot. I was in the second grade and Judy Garland came out MHM in her show. And of course I learned later that the executive producers did not want her to do that because it was political, but yeah,

Judy was friends with JFK and um. Anyway, she came out and she sang battle him in Republic and they go to YouTube and see that bitch. You will see she forgot a lyric and you you she didn't flu up. She went instead of saying, oh be swis my soul to answer him, be jubilant my feet. Well God is watching on and baby. When she took that first step on loori Lori halleluyah. As I was in the second grade, math m, tears were running down my face. I didn't

even know what emotion I was feeling. But this woman, this energy, this power, this this unannounced storm that came out of nowhere. I'm telling you, baby, I have enjoyed being in this business, Matt. I have enjoyed. I am. I think if somebody were to ask me what I was more grateful for than anything, it would be that I got to do what I loved to do in my life. I probably would have done it had I never got a penny, for gotten a penniful it m hmm. I didn't know what else to do but sing a song.

I didn't know what else to do but kick my legs in the air. I didn't know what else to do but make people laugh. I always thought it was why I was put here, and I'm glad I thought that because it kind of worked out. Yes, here's a thing. Ordinarily, on something as gorgeous and beautiful as that, I would end the episode. But we have to do a segment that we always do on this podcast that I hope Cecily told you about. It's called I don't think so, honey,

did you hear about I don't think so, honey? Did she tell you? You're telling me back? I don't think this is what it is it's a sixty second rant about something that is grinding your gears that you need to rant about and scream about. I have one. I'll do a demo for you, and then I'm gonna time you Jennifer Lewis, okay, are you ready? So I'm I'm gonna do one, and then you're gonna do one. All right? So this is my I don't think so, honey, My time starts now. I don't think so, honey. The word

affidavit's the releasing or whatever. Just put this motherfucker in jail. Is he a criminal, then lock him up. I don't give a funk about. He was the president and this is unprecedented. I don't want to hear the word affidavit ever again. Release the whatever. Mama released the cracking, released the cracking of the U. S. Government, and put this man in fucking prison. What does he have that he should have? Just tell us, you know, we deserve to know the fucking truth. Put him in fucking jail. I

have thirty seconds left. Look, if I have to see one more drone shot of Mara Lago, Mama, put the drone into the hallway, going uncover the cabinets, Just show us what is in there? If I see one more document with a billion lines blacked out, just tell us the truth. How has this motherfucker's been putting us in jail? I mean, and in in chaos and in danger. Put him in jail, not us, Mama? Is it? I don't care if it's UFOs, I don't care if it's fucking whatever.

Just just tell us what it is. Stop. I don't think so, honey, boom, that's my one minute. Well, I'm gonna pick it right the fun up. This is Jennifer Lillis. I don't think so, honey. Your time starts now. I

don't think so, bitch. I don't think that your motherfucking as should still be alive when you didn't tell us that COVID what it's here, when it wasn't here, your motherfucker saying ship on the phone, like oh it's in the air, Yeah, that's in the a bitch, everything after the motherfucking air too, Because you don't believe in science. With your dumb, fat, little mushroom dick ass, you don't

believe inside you got him. You're a social path. You're a fucking social path, and and you're insane, but you know. I'm gonna be honest. Let you lafe. I don't hate that man. I feel sorry for Trump because I know what fucking mental illness looks like. But there's a difference between mental illness and being a fucking sociopath. That bitch has no feeling. And I'm gonna tell you why they're having arrest of this fucking as yet because when he

got in he's mafia. He went out there and got a picture of every Republican senator's mistress and a young boy that they fucking around with. Fuck him, he's got do it again. Let me get the good turn that finish, finish. Here's what I want to say. Trump is mob. You gotta understand that ship, that motherfuck monster. When he got in office, he went and got pictures of every Republican's mistress, whoever got the seeds they were straight or gay or

whatever whatever you could hold over their heads. As soon as he got in he went and got those pictures and all of that information and videos. Those Republican senators know that he has this. That's why they're not stepping forward and they think, okay, well, let me just get on the evil train and maybe we'll win this thing and keep our country. Well, fuck you, motherfucker. Let me tell you it's time for every great fucking empire to fall, bitch.

And that's what's going because you motherfucker's went around the world colonized, raped and pillaged every goddamned society you could get your hands on. Then you brought us. Oh that's the man. No, you know where that come is? This is this Mark Jennifer has run off to go find her phone. This is an iconic moment. Is it Mark? No, it's mere Lola? Is it? Oh? My god, you gotta get him, get him on. You know that. I've done two. I've done two interviews solo on this podcast, Jennifer Lewis

and ch Angela. Those were the two that Bowen couldn't join me for. And I'm like, of course the mother and daughter hold on, yeah, got him back. Oh, this is too good. Spacetime DJ Pierce, the other Oh, here we go, and the answers, Honey, lookal's here. I'm all with Matt Rogers. Hey girl, Jennifer's lost coat. Theresas remember you did the pod? Of course I do, halleluk, and I did nothing but praise jenn the whole time. How did the video come? Look at your what's them? I

just take a cut. Oh shut up, I'm outside. That's breaking news on the podcast. You're gonna lose your mind. This is we are. You've seen all the videos for Walking in My Joy? Did me get it? You see me wash them in the in the hair and the what is it? The dishwasher, Michael and the refrigerator. Well, I want to live in your house with y'all. I know we have. Well, you're gonna die for this. Just finished. DJ film did and did the storyboard. He went up

in my closet, got the wardrobe. We had so much fun, well, some of us did. He lived through it. Let's just say he lived through it. We did. We've done a mock of Beyonce's formation. Hilarious, yes, equipped with DJ running out and getting the police, uh like for on top of the car. But when we finished, Yeah, it's good. It's gonna be really good. So that already. No, I'll call you back. You tell me a ship. What's up? What's happ my ass? I'll tell you what's happening. I'm

on this God damn it. Some of y'all, y'all ahead, I just gotta tell you, Matt, watching you and her was so fun and reminiscent of when I working as There are so many moments where I was like, for you, my this moment you're basically playing d J at the beginning of our relationship, for you're my my assistant and DJ, believe me, I would not like Patrician or was it was nicer one, my baby? I mean, when he thought he was coming to the party and co that was

a heartbreak. Now all we need to do is find out that Darcy is actually a drag queen on the side and sas Angela, and that will really complete the loop season two. Baby, I'm getting in those writers ears. But wait a minute, Wait a minute, DJ. The reason that so familiar to him because the first year he lived here in my basement, dungeon, or however you want to address it. I had a Christmas party and all the holiday Wood people were there, you know, RuPaul Loretta

was coming. And when Loretta pulled up, you know I didn't I didn't get valet, I didn't give about it was just a party, your own fucking ballet bed. I don't know not about hiring ballet food. So I asked DJ. I said, DJ, Loretta Divine just pulled up. Baby, run out there and and and get Loretta's car. And he said, but I said, baby, don't let Loretta walk. Don't let Loretta walk. No, we can't let Loretta walk. What is this? There is a song now called Don't let Loretta Walk?

I know? Is it coming on? They went out there and park Loretta's car, and then somebody else pulled up, and I said, oh, baby, don't let them walk. Baby, d J old you like twenty years old, I was, and I remember everyone then just pulled up and started handing me their keys. Oh my god. So he tells that story when people ask him when was the first time he met RuPaul? And RuPaul came to my Christmas? So funny. He and when he's he was going on the Rue Paul Show. I was like, ru got the show?

You know about it? I said, that a part for me? He said, well, it's drag quays. I said, well you going, baby? You going? Baby? Mom? Yeah, mommy? Yeah, Oh my god, all right, where are you? What staked? That's too bad. I'll talk to you ladies, and Mama loves you. Kiss by d j H. That's enough for you. Oh my god,

that was the best cameo I've ever had. Yeah. Literally, when ch Angela DJ came on this podcast, I was a one on one just like this, and I've only done two of those that Bowen Couldn't make you and Djuny mad bless it. Tell him we love him. I know, Um, Jennifer. I have so enjoyed having you here and having this conversation with you. I adore you, I look up to you, and I i've It's just enriches my life every time

I'm around you in the same space. So I just want to thank you so much for doing this pod. Let me give you your listeners a couple of things before I go. I always try to leave something and somebody can, you know, just kind of maybe walk with And this is one of my popular quotes and I think everybody has heard it, and I can't say it enough. The elevator to success is broken. Take stars. You gotta be in it to win it. The moment you want to give up, it's right around the corner. Mm hmm.

That's a big one. That's a big one. It's right around the corner. You just hold on. It may not be exactly what you want, but it'll get you to where you're going. It's just the next step, So try not to walk around. It's all right to be scared. There's a lot going on in the World's right to be scared. We're human. But you must be unafraid. Your generation has to unite so they don't take all of your rights from you. You must unite. You cannot sit

on your heads. You've lived in freedom and and and privilege and and and you did have taken it for granted that if you get sick, there's a doctor. If you get hungry, there's a cook. If you get well. Are you taking care of yourself? Mhm. Last thing I'm telling you. We all have one job, just one, and that's self care. Take care of yourselves. Life will unfold for you. I got everything I want. Why shouldn't you? And I do mean everything, Matt Funny does not make

life easy, makes it easier. M hmm. If you don't know who you are, none of it means anything. Take care of you. Don't let none get on you. Don't people, don't keep people in your life that are toxic. Don't do it. Find your joy, pursue happiness and walk in Your Joy, that's what. And how about this one? If you purchase a book, it should be Walking in My

Joy in the Streets by Jennifer Lewis. And if you haven't read The Mother of Black Hollywood or for Me better yet, listen to that audio book because she is a performer. Than enrich yourself and be doing all of that. Um and of course stream showtimes. I love that. For you, I will tell you one thing. Yeah, audible of Walking My Joy. Yeah, I'm sure. I mean, having read it, I can't wait. I can't wait the first person I'm saying this too. It's so good. Yeah, I'm so excited.

I don't know what jumped in me that day, boy, but wow, so I'm listening. I kind of wasn't even there, which whoa. So pick up the audible is and I actually sing. I recorded the songs in this one. Can't wait. So so thank you, young man. I adore you. I can't wait to see you on the set more Patricia and Darcy in season for that, I hope it's announced. I love you, Stoo