"I Think You Owe Me An Apology" (w/ Dave Holmes)

every joint. I need the support right now, as I announced to the readers and the publicists, really anyone out there listening. Um, When you think that what love you can't hurt you the most, I don't think that. And that's a really culture mur you think you think that you love the most, don't think I don't think that. Because when I went out to dinner on a Monday night and I just sat down in Los Angeles and I was so happy to be home. I went to

my favorite restaurant. I'm not going to name them because I'm not going to do that to them. I'm not going to do that to them. But I went to my favorite restaurant and ate my favorite dish. Which is oysters raw oysters on the half shell, if you will. I've had food poisoning ever since. But over a week, the experience of losing my faculties has true shaken me. I have lost seven pounds, harrowing. I'm now on an

antibiotic and on the way back to me. But to know that my own daughter, the oyster came for me in this way, she's not I don't think she's the daughter. She's you love her the most in a way that is like an abusive lover, because she really hurt you. It was she the oyster. They know what they have over me now, and that makes me really scared to move out with my life because am I going to stop eating oysters? Never? Never, in a day? But now that I know what they can do to me, it's

a very abusive relationship. Thank you for saying the words. I'm not even using that. I know not to use that word lightly. It's it's a word I'm not. I didn't. I didn't the girl I did and so, and I just think that you should. I mean, in a way, I admire that you haven't let this change your relationship to oysters. But in another way, the fact that you're not even willing to like name the restaurant as a

way to what are you protecting the oysters? Just I feel that that would be that that would be very and I'm sorry to bring them into this, but Demilovado against that ice cream froo shop because it might not have been their fault. It might have been just lit No, they weren't. But I don't want to be that voice sort of reaching out to my what is it millions of followers at this point? You know, I'm I'm I have have such re each that I don't want to

um cause this restaurant to close. You know what I mean? Because I know if I were to say something and be the whistleblower, the community would rally against me and no one would set foot there. Again, that's the community would rally for you against them on my behalf is what I meant to say. Thank you? Can we say that Matt's reach really is million? Why? While how do

you feel? Honestly, honestly, I find I find it so there's a there's a real feeling of justice, an emotional sense of justice that I have when I think about the fact that I am looking at all these people out here dressing up his twink and doing doing doing twink, doing twinks cause plays. There's been like two or three, doesn't matter. It's people, And I think you must feel some vindication. Look at God, won't he do? Look at God?

Put me on Netflix and now millions are dressing up as the character Twink from Q for getting into the wait this is this is such a gross way to bring this in. But my stylist last week and the means like was he was like, I was like, what are you watching? He was like, I've been watching that show Q Force? Do you know? I was like, I know it very well. Did He loved it? And he was like telling me about the episode where twinn Can dresses up as Aaron Brockovich and doesn't but doesn't understand

that Aaron Brokovich was not a reporter. And I was like, that's such a funny. I was like that, see that premise itself is so funny. People have to watch Q Force. It's so much fun and you'll love it. And I feel like it got such it got such a dragging on the internet. But when the trailer came out and now everyone's turning around and be I'm like now the tweet is this is the tweet that annoys me. Now it's like, actually, Q force is not that bad. I

love it even I'm just like, what do you dumb this? Then? You exactly, it's purely them telling on themselves, being like wait, I had this really uninformed, knegric reaction to like, uh an edited together trailer from like a marketing team that I that I don't under I don't understand what they were going for whatever, and and and now that it was able to shoot me to the A list because finally the Internet, I have demilto powers, and I know that it would be irresponsible of me just have some

knee jerk reaction and take down this Los Feeless establishment. There. I'm gonna narrow with Okay, how many Los Felis places sell serve oysters? Damn you are you're making this Cereal. I knew one day would come along that you would make this podcast Cereal girl. I had to. I went to the best Buy today and I thought, okay, you

would have horny bobs. I was like, damn, you know, I wonder how best Buy feels about the last time they were actually in the zeitgeist being cereal and before that, they were only famous for being in the movie the story they worked at in forty year Old Virgin They were only famous, right, They were only famous for that, And they were only famous before that being the place

next to the park Menows Costco and Aurora, Colorado. I would go when my mom would be shopping and I was bored, and I went to the best Buy to play dance Dance Revolution with the employees there. Um that is, there would be there would be dance. I'm telling you there were circa two thousand three. They were full on dance battles between me and these blue poloed lovely employees at best Buy. I love DDR as much as and then people believe me when I say people would gather.

That was when I that's amazing. That was when I first caught the cat the bug. Oh my god, it's so great to be able to pinpoint that moment a dance Dance Revolution battle with best boy employees, best best by my best boy. We're gonna interview the best boy in a second, and we are the best boys here. But first I want that's very beautiful and I and I'm so happy for you that you have that and

I'm so happy for you. For another reason, congratulations are due, as a scholar would say, has been moved to the repertory cast of Saturday Night Live, the big promotion, as it were, there's none bigger. There's none bigger, you know, it's there's not a bigger promotion. That is also just purely a technicality, and everyone's congratulations. It's like, yeah, that's to happen. I'm like, it's it's in the Contract's fine. Um, but no, I'm very very very very grateful, very happy

to be on the other side of the opening credit seen. Yes, oh my god, you transferred right over to the other side to be a with to have with credit with with all the names. Oh and can we just prow one out for the the wonderful, wonderful back Bennett and one of the best we have to have back on the pod. Maybe now he'll have more time, just one of just one of the nicest, kindest, funniest, most talented people who would do who could do it all? I mean not for nothing, so such a such a wonderful

leading man, so handsome. Yeah, he he really was great. It doesn't it doesn't get any better than handsome goofy, funny kind. No handsome, goofy, funny kind. And also like, um, he seems like a general person, like he's generous with this time energy talent. I feel like, you know, you can tell that he was well loved at the show and he really was good at everything, and so he is one of the he's one of those that will be missed and you you'll only realize it now that

he's gone. You motherfucker's you should have you should have known what you had campaigned. You should have campaigned for him to stay for a hundred years. Speaking of handsome, funny, goofy kind. What wait, what the hell? We ever? Guests? But can we just really can we check in really quickly? I have not watched Salt Lake City yet because I've neither I fell asleep in the middle of it because I did you watch tom I'm sorry I did a scala. Our girl had a great moment the way she snapped

at Mia. I said, a scala. You're you're you're building a legacy. I don't even care about the Mia snap because Mia, I'm just like, I'm not even like all over the place, and I'm like, I don't like this, But her her one confessional cutaway this episode, um, I

think her second or third all season. Yes, but what was when Giselle wants to give him the tour of the house and then and then a scala c's like the bear stairs, spiral staircase, nothing to nothing, and she goes, um, I'll come back, And then her confessional is, you know when there's just when they're stable steps and you know there's a door, I'll be back. But like I'm like the delivery on the linary on that was when there's a door, I'll be back, I'll be back. So funny.

It wasn't like we're building a legacy. This house is a piece of ship. She was just like, no, no, no, like you know when there's like a door there and functioning stairs all that's what I'll come back. So funny, so good. I'm ready to say, escala legend. I'm ready to see her at the Legends ball. I'm ready to see her go all the way, all the way. She's going the distance. Speaking of him, how do we checked him? But speaking of legends, this is what I realized today

when I was thinking about our guest. By the way, this has been a long time coming time coming kind of in a way. Without him, we're not up here being the culture restas. He was really the first cultureista if you really think about it, if you really think about it, this is someone with like an academic understanding of what goes on in culture. I mean I would say like I would, I was gonna say star Turn, but it's like we've known about his sort of mind

and the way that it thinks about pop culture. But in the Framing Britney Spears documentary, you see him and you go, well, here's an authority. I have been waiting to talk to him about all that as well, because it's been a lot has gone down since we did our Brittany episode, and to have a better guest I don't think would be possible. When we say original culture Resta, we're well, we're saying everyone out there and maybe some

public system readers don't even know. Some are gonna be like, um, yeah, of course, but maybe some are young VJ, Mama, VJ. That was the original cultures though truly the VJA was the original culture Resta. Someone with a curatorial eye something had to have presence to be able to say to to you through the camera, through the screen. Hey you're about to see is important and cool and cool. That was the number one thing and okay, we so much

to get into with our guests. Um also the host of the Homophilia podcast with Matt mccon, one of the best. I mean, just every everyone you could want to hear from, has like a gorgeous episode. They're great interviewers. It's just so fantastic, one of the best podcasts. They asked much better questions than we ever could. They run circles around us, and we like it that way. As you know, the dizzy I feel after my guest spins around me is the best kind of dizzy, the best kind of nausea,

best kind of food poisoning. Second, the oyster, second to the oyster. Not since the oyster have I been spun around like this today Today, this is a major moment. But are you ready to welcome our guests? I'm ready, everyone, welcome, damn you guys. That's I want to use all of that as my bio, an audio clip of it, and just have that playing at all times. Let me just paint a picture for everybody listening to be you can't see even the podcast or a visual medium we're talking

to Dave Zoom. But he is in this beautifully paneled office. The walls have whatever, the walls were cordeous, talking like these fantastic framed photos of there's one thing I can't tell what it is, and then there's another, a framed photo of CBGB's. So she canna just it's just like, this is culture. This is a culture king, Thank you, thank you. This was my boyfriend's studio. So the panels behind you are acoustical panels that he made. Now we've taken over the guest unit on the on the property

and that's now where he goes. So these this is like a simple burlap over some some foam. Uh, simple but effective. Um. That is in fact CBGB and then and then behind me is a gold record for Robbie Williams. The ego has landed. I can't believe that I are you Robbie Williams superfan. You I am a fucking super fan. Yes, I absolutely And you too school me because I that's a blind spot for me, and I feel ashamed. But we need to know about your what you think of Robbie.

He is um the perfect pop star. Um. He strikes a tone that nobody else in the culture does, and that is why he is not big in the United States. Like he's sort of he's sort of in on his own joke. It's a little bit like it's kind of a character. He's like larger than life and like and sexy and and it's just it just doesn't work. We can we don't know what to do with those boys in America. You know, you gotta be you gotta be Chris Martin or you gotta be you know what. That's

kind of it. That's kind of a really really cool when you're a guy, you there's no room for like cheekiness. Like that's what I'm saying about exactly. The word Robbie Williams is like the funny and that's like it's it's like he's like, um a deserving and funny and like camp and you can't do that in America with a

male artist. Yeah, watch his set at the net Worth Festival and I don't remember what year, but just search probably will just like it's just this in this crowd that you can't like your brain cannot conceive of the size of the crowd, and he just fucking holds them in the palm of his hand. He's incredible. So I must have mentioned him because you know, he tried it a couple of times in the States with Millennia and then Angel and Angels and he had like I Loving

Angels and stid. That's the one Jessica Simpson would go on to do a more popular, wouldn't she. Ever, you know you and you know the version of Jessica Simpson Angel Angel, I'm Loving Angels instead. Yes, I believe you can hear it in your head. You don't know. It's exactly she shouts that one to God, only to God himself, that was for God. And after she got off stage, she definitely looked at her like her assistant and grabbed their hand or whoever it wasn't just said that one

was for God. And then I know, Jessica, you say that every time and she goes, well, it's true. This time it was absolutely true. Yeah. Yeah, I mentioned him on the air because I do love him, and it didn't quite come together for him. Whatever. The album went golden. They sent me one and so there you go. So this is the thing. Oh go, go, go, Matt Rogers, we can bleep this. Eleano Eleano Eleno. Uh you're you're you're asking it wasn't Elenie. The answer is no, sorry,

it was not Ellie Oyster. And we don't have to bleep it, because I'd love, I'd love to take it off the table that it's that we don't bleep it. It was not Ellyster that was front of mine, that was front of mine. I love that place. You wanted to protect yourself. I will. I want what it was off fair. I'll tell you what it was off fair. Have we crossed off one of the few remaining options? Though, as far as like a place in liss Felis that

serves oysters, it seems like we have not Ellen. Let's just say there is one that hasn't been mentioned, and that place, unfortunately that they wouldn't be in this position of the will they won't they in the will we name it in the reader's minds, which I won't. But they shouldn't have given me food poisoning. Then that's all. Sure. My heart is with you. My heart is thinking I have a I have a relationship with oysters as well, and I would hate for it to come to an end.

It just took a hard left, you know. Yeah, I'm sorry for what's what's your oyster preference? You like you you're a briny guyan coast? Are you thinking? Are you? Are you hearing this? Why is there music? What is happening on my computer on this day? Wait? What the funk is going on? What is this? Is beautiful? We're keeping all of it. It's like it's like a woman going meditation that I was listening to earlier. Why did

it start playing? I don't need you now, no meditation for a meditation to stress you out and stress me out that you want to talk about a betrayal, talk about something that you love being the thing that will kill you. Meditation meditation giving stress. It's like a horror movie that is truly like a horror movie twist. It's like a horror movie twist. That's like one of the most scary parts of a horror Wait, that's like a great Someone write that up a Blumhouse scary movie about

like an awful cursed meditation and cursed meditation. It's actually really good. That's a good black cursing meditation. App that's a great black mirror it is. That's solid. I think Dave should play the person that the voice because David Dave. You've You've heard this your whole life, But I feel like Dave really just does have this such a good timber, a good voice. Thank you so much. From where does that come from? Oh? God? Uh you know t in the Morton Now, I don't. Um. I did do radio

really early. Um. I lied my way into a radio job in high school and h and was on the air that I was a student of the college that the station was. It was the radio station four kay y m C in Sat. Louis, Missouri, And uh yeah, I was like, I was a sophomore in high school and I just rode my bike out and had a Saturday afternoon show. And I don't know, I don't It's just it's just my voice. I'm going to say something.

I guess there are some radio voices people with who do radio, whose voices when they are out in the wild, when you hear them in the real and real line, it's a little jarring to go, wait a minute, what is this affect? Is this? Are you locked into this with Dave with Dave Holmes? And it's only ever been Wow, that man has a nice for because effortlessness is a part of your thing. Because this is and this comes

back to the VJ of it all. So I actually, like when they were trying to reboot VJs, I think Bowhen when we were right out of college, I actually auditioned to be like and like I went, I went and did like the adian forward or whatever, and that like didn't go bad, but it didn't move forward. But I just remember thinking while I was there, how do you just seem so cool? You know what I mean? Like that that was part of because everyone was in the room being like, Okay, I'm trying to be a VJ.

And the number one thing that they all have in common was they were able to project like an ease and a cool factor that made you want to like buy into this like young cool MTV brand. So I guess my question is like, how did you get into that space? I know, I know how you did because of the show, but which I think would be really interesting to talk about now after like we've seen so many reality shows become that weird. It's so weird, but also like, how do you navigate that, like I'm trying

to be cool professionally? Does that kind of Yeah? I think I benefited at the beginning from just being like um, because of the way I got the job. I kind of came in and by the time I made it a the top ten, I was like, I'm not gonna get this. I'm not going to get So it was a competition called want to be a right, yeah, and it was it was basically, I mean, it's weird, like when people bring it up now, they're like, oh, you were on season one of that thing, and it's like

that thing was four hours on a Saturday afternoon. That was it basically like a couple of days on the live show and then a four hour event on Saturday. But be yeah. It was like it was an audition up until the top ten, and then the viewers called in, called in and voted and chows from there. And there was this wild character named Jesse, and I was like, well,

this is obviously the person who's gonna win. So I was like, I'm just gonna sort of treat this like an interview and just like meet people and talk to them and be normal because I'm not. I can't out character the character, you know what I mean, and it would be dumb to try. So it's like I'm just gonna I guess. Like it took not knowing I wasn't gonna get it took all of the pressure off. So I was able to just sort of like chill and

do it. And then they ended up hiring me anyway, and I was like, well, I'm not gonna change anything. It wouldn't make sense for me to suddenly be like a big character you know, that doesn't come naturally, you know. So what a what a what a great instinct to drop the artifice in the face of seeing someone maybe the the guy who wants what was his name again,

Jesse Camp, Jessie Camp, maybe like I'm not. It's not to say that he was artificial in that character, but it's like for you to have I mean, I would have completely gone the other way and been like, well, I'm gonna do what he's doing because that's what they seem to like, and like, yeah, I just wouldn't. I wouldn't be able to do it. I just wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't be able. I wouldn't be able to keep a straight face, you know what I mean. So so

I just sort of didn't. But I guess like that was another thing about it, too, is I remember like reading VJ Copy it is really hard just to not do what's up guys that that that like you have of VJ and here we are going to talk where about this person over here? Like it's so hard to not go into that, but you are able to maintain you And that I think was so that's such a

skill at such a talent. Thanks. Thanks, I mean yeah, I mean, but it truly was just from like I don't have the ability to be you know, to be the big like I wouldn't be like a proper good radio JA because I know it's not in me to be like yeah yeah yeah yeah, so yeah, anyway, thank you. That's lovely. It's lovely. That is like liberating self awareness to know yourself back then, which I don't do you think it's harder to know yourself now than it isn't

like the late nineties. I can't tell. I'm like if I had grown up like just like ten years if I if I was just born ten years earlier, would I have been more anchored to stuff or would I have been like less available with my resource? Like what what would I have been like less in touch with like things that I know? Like okay, this is what's

like does that make sense. I'm speaking in abstraction. I feel like I feel like I mean, I feel like the answer is obvious, which is probably we all would have been more of an individual I think ten fift twenty years ago when there wasn't any social media or two at all times. And you know what I mean, Like, how different do you think it would be for someone now being like a representative to to all of the youth with social media? Probably so much different? Yeah, I don't,

I don't know. I'm I am so glad that I was there before YouTube, before social media. What we had was I mean, first of all, like you know, we messed things up left, right and center, and that was kind of part of the appeal and whatever it was. You know, it was live and it was fun and all that. Yeah. Um, but like to make a mistake and have it like stay with you forever be so

unbelievably awful. Um. And also like we had when I started there, all we had I don't even know if there was a proper MTV dot calm, but there was like a there was a channel on a O L and that channel had like message boards and once early I was like, um, and and each of us each of the on air people have their own older or whatever, and uh and I went and I looked at mine, and I was like, oh, no, no, this is not this is not for me to see at all, because

it's all you know, at that time, anyone using a computer to go online was like a grounded fourteen year old girl, right who And there's no one meaner on the planet than a grounded fourteen year old girl on her dad's computer on a dial up connection. Um. So yeah, so I got to yeah, thank god there was none of that kind of stuff. But I do like I wonder what I would what kind of person I would be if I were, you know, fifteen years younger and didn't grow up feeling like the only person like me

on the planet like it was. There was a lot about that that was really terrible, obviously, um, but there was also a lot about that was really good, like instilled to drive within me to like prove myself and and succeed and be heard and all that. And I might not have that. If I found my tribe at I might be a very specific kind of monster. You know. Yeah, I'm glad that is interesting. Yeah, I think about that often.

I think about like, um, like if I were if would I would I try as hard and work as hard and like try to put myself out there as much, improve so much if I didn't feel like there was like a large part of my upbringing where I just couldn't see myself represented ever, and so I wanted to work to become that. And now it's like you look around and that's like really not true anymore at all. And like you, I often think, like why the like basic way I phrase it. Sometimes it's like what if

I were straight, would I'd be a fucking monster? But like I do think about that, like you know, like and like you're grateful for the adversity or whatever it is, but still it had to be hard. Forgive me if this is too much. But did you remain closeted the entire time I was out? But not on the air? But not on the air, That's what I guess, which is yeah, which is like I look back and I'm like what what? What? What makes total sense to me? Now?

I don't. I mean it does to me too, but it's it doesn't make it any less disappointing, you know what I mean? Like I I do understand you know that I was like not trying to rock the boat and that and that there was no you know, blogs and social media and ways to like continue sort of doing your thing when the show ends, and it's you know whatever you have to like wrangle the press into it. And the press doesn't give they don't care. They you know, they're like they don't care who I am or I'm

not having you know what I mean. It's like I'm not I'm not interesting in that way, so whatever, I at it. But it's like, you know, I look back and it's, you know, we were promoting the hell out of eminem who said the F word and I and it like never entered my mind not to participate in it or to speak up in any way at all, which is nuts. But anyway, I was out and I was out of my private life. It's just that you know, yeah, nobody cared enough to make it public and I didn't,

you know, I didn't do the thing. I didn't say the words, you know, right, whether or not it's public. I just feel like this is something that um, I just I've just parroted this line ever since Beauty Wah was was on this podcast. He was talking about Asian

people working in show biz. But I think that just applies in a very general way to people who like there was just no process probably for you to like make it, or for anybody to to to have like coming out and feeling good and safe about it publicly to be an inevitable inevitability. Like now it just is inevitable if you are queer, if you are sort of like self defining in that way. Like it's hopefully people

feel somewhat comfortable with that or it's not. It doesn't feel like this high risk thing in the way that it used to be. But like I mean, I mean, yeah, I mean, as soon as you brought up eminem, I'm like, oh, of course, like that, that would completely discourage anyone who worked at MTV to want to like publicly say, by the way, I'm gay. Yeah yeah, yeah, it was they.

I remember I remember this. I remember on say What Karaoke, somebody did it like a Brittany or Christina or something, and the navel was out and all that and whatever, and I said, I said something like, uh, you know, the straight boys are gonna love this or whatever, and my and my producer in my ear was like, let's take that again, I said why because basically, yeah, she was like, you said, all the straight guys, just say all the guys, and I was like, okay, and I did,

and I don't you know, I could have dug my heels in and I didn't. Yeah, that's okay, that's weird. It's just it's it's it's not weird. I'm looking I'm looking at with you know, filter on it, you know what I mean. Like, of course things were not then the way they are now, and sometimes I think I think with time we forget what it was like at

that time. But it was suffocating and it was also not something because at that time, if you had been an MTVVJ, which you were, and m Eminem is the most played artist and most pushed artists, I mean, there was a time where he truly ruled the channel. I

mean think I'll remember it. And you were to say you're gay, it's almost like you're speaking out against him, you know what I mean, because he was so he made such a part of his thing that he was homophobic, that anyone gay like is naturally at odds with him and therefore like you know, an enemy of his and critical of him, and that is a dangerous game to start playing when you need to be the one of the faces of the channel and then you're at odds

with your place of work. Right, yeah, it's nothing but trouble. But yeah, but so yeah, I mean I was, you know, I was like out and you know, bringing boyfriends to events and stuff. It just didn't quite register. A different time, a different time, a different era. Oh there's that new Oyster place. You're never going to get it out of me. It's just not gonna happens. Found Oyster was found Oyster. It wasn't found Oyster. And I'm telling you, I'm telling you,

I will tell you after. But the thing is, like I have to be able to go back there again, and I just I don't want them to struggle, like especially during this time of COVID. I can't be telling that to a restaurant. I can't restaurant. I just can't. Everybody's holding on by their fingertips. I'm excited for their show where they saw an alien? Did you guys see that? There's a Demi Leavitto show on Peacock where they saw

an alien. It's a documentary, it's a reality show. It's what is it called but there it's literally coming out. We love here. I just think there's a lot of there's a lot happening right now with them, and it's interesting. It's an announced week. It feels like yeah, or like

a new project. And which is not to say that all of like their life experiences in the last few years have been like you know, sort of like press release, but you know, but like I like, I've been asked three separate times to be like on a YouTube show of their's on a different YouTube show in the last I would say six months, and I'm like, wait, I can't keep up with like how many things. Levado is

like starting what are you Jojo? See one now? And this is by the way, JoJo's absolutely stomping it out on Dumping with the stars with it is. It's lovely to to watch. So this is just this came out three hours ago. On page six. Demi Levado believe something is out there. The twenty nine year old pop star claims they once had a close encounter with extraterrestrial beings in Joshua Tree, California. A k that got really high you did, and the out of this world experience was

mind plowing. Quote, we went out into the desert and Joshua Tree, and I basically saw this blue orb that was about fifty feet away, maybe less, and it was kind of like floating above the ground, just like ten or fifteen feet and it was kind of keeping its distance from me. It was a beautiful and incredible experience.

And this anecdote came while they were promoting their new Peacock series Unidentified with Demi Levado, in which they attempt to uncover the truth about UFO phenomena alongside sister Dallas Levado and best friend who we actually love and shout out, Matthew's got Montgomery, so he's on the show. But this is a real thing, Demi. Demi believes they saw an alien and Joshua. I also don't want to insanuate that they were high, because they're famously sober. What I mean

is of things when you're sober, that is true. But a lot of things go down in Joshua Tree and they're not necessarily aliens. That's all I have to say that is that those elegantly said it was beautifully said. You did not, Demi Levado, Demi Levado, just there, no right, I did I Demi Levado, Demi Levado. But a second ago where I was like, not everything is a press release, I I take back what I said. I just feel like there's just a lot of out there. There's just

there's just a lot of output. But I mean, Matt and I have constant check ins being like, wait, dummy, Demi Levado is the one. Demi Levado so constantly proves themselves to be the one that it constantly provokes a conversation, and this article says Demi. Levado went on to say, I love that halfway through the article they're still they're not saying Demi, They're saying Demi. Levados went on to say that their encounter changed the way they see the world.

You have an inkling and then all of a sudden that inkling is confirmed, the singer explained, It changes your reality for sure. Oh wow, beautiful, unexplained, speaking of people in the conversation, Well, we just we just I mean, we just Matt and I just want to know what Dave you think of the latest in the Britney Spears saga. I have not yet seen the new documentary watched Okay,

what can you tell us? Basically, all the colors in is the fact that this surveill it really like um sort of focuses on the surveillance aspect of her conservatorship, where basically it's revealed that she was basically never alone. She was followed constantly. All of her conversations were monitored, and if she was going to have a conversation or an interaction with someone and had to be scheduled and all of those were monitored. Basically she was watched one

percent of the time, like people protected. Yeah, like over yes, maybe honestly she was. That was a little bit now, that was before. But maybe it was a premonition that she had was a premonition and unexplained. But that's really what the documentary says is on top of everything you saw, the surveillance, which was not covered in the documentary, um as intently as everything else was really out of control. Yeah, okay, I you know, UM, obviously I'm pleased that Brittany seems

to be on her way to being freed. Does seem to be happening curiously quickly, though it seems like everything was moving very slowly for a very long time, and I don't know if it was if like Jamie Spears, it's just senses that the public tide has turned or whatever, or if that's even meaningful to him, or if there is something sneaky going on where it's just like you

don't want it, great, we're taking it away. And then the first, like the moment she does something publicly kind of questionable or whatever, it'll be like see, you know what I mean, interesting? Interesting? You know, to that end, I don't because I don't. I don't think anyone's gonna leave her alone. When she is able to like move

about freely, that's that's gonna be. Like the last truly valuable paparazzi shot is her like out in the room, you know what I mean, which sucks talk about like looking back at from one like those things and the Woods Dot nine and and all that. It's like that world which is like, you know, the world that I was young in is like disgusting, disgusting, Like the way

that we spoke to her was disgusting. The you know, the guy from the Offspring coming out and bludgeoning uh the Backstreet Boys in effigy on stage in front of tens of thousands of people is like that's discussed and that ship is all tons better than the stuff that I was a teenager during that, Like you know, all of the every teen comedy in the eighties is like ends with a crowd pleasing sexual assault, you know, like that's it's just it's it's just wild to look back

at it now, and I can't help but feel a little a little disgusting. Yeah, but sure, has it gotten any better? I mean I feel like that just sounds like like like I don't know, like attacking something in effigy feels very now to I don't know. I can't

think of an example that's I don't know. I just I hear what you're saying bout and I think I often think that that that stuff happens privately now, and it happens in like channels that we don't see, because again, it happens on social media, and it happens so intensely and so so severely that like we almost like it's

it is happening. It's just because it's like that mob mentality of like that sort of fanatical like following of someone that's famous, like that, all that all that energy gets funneled into online now and so now it's like it's even scarier in a way because it can live in a private place where only the attacked can see it oftentimes, or like it happens in a way where only the attacked understands the volume with which it's coming at them. So that's I think what makes it so

intense now. But I don't think it went away. I think it's interesting that you I think, and I agree with you, that that would be that that getting that PAPARAZZII shot of Brittany post freedom would be like the last valuable paparazzi photo, which makes me think, wow, has anything fundamentally changed. She's still as vulnerable as she was, you know, fifteen years ago or however long ago. And it's like, I mean, obviously it's a better circumstance for

her not to be in this conservatorship. That's something that everybody agrees. And I think and I feel like politically, and I'm like, is it even that it's so obvious that it's like, who would you be if not a contrarian? If you were like, I actually think she should stay in the conservatorship. But I'm just saying, like the last valuable paparazzi photo would be of Brittany out in the wild and people would be like, wow, look she means yeah.

So that's interesting that you are a little suspicious of at the pace of the yeah. And what's god, what's worse is like, you know, the paparazzi industry or whatever.

It's probably not what it once was. You don't see them as often, um, but now everybody has a phone in their camera and there are enough shitty people who will be like, oh, there she is, I'll get the shot or whatever, um we get Like I live in Studio City in l A. And like the paparazzi show up to the farmer's market to get a shot of like John Cryer picking out an eggplant or you know, like the good stuff, the good stuff. It's just wild.

Like what they will still hide out and hang out to get very sure but in like a gym want age or whatever comes after. It's like, I mean, who do at this point, I have been desensitized full and I'm like I don't care whoever, Like I don't care who it is, it's all, it's all just don't know. I have had to um followed so many times, like I keep out of curiosity following again and then I then I just feel my stress level elevate. I feel my like I am half of the people. I don't

know who they are. It drives me nuts that everyone's like a non please, it's like no one, they never use your name, that you can go ahead and just that can be silent. Now, Yeah, I'm currently not following Yes, yes, uh, neither am I I don't know about I am following them, but I just I just think it's like I'm not like, I don't know, I feel the needs like defend why I'm following them, but I don't have to. Um, it's

just for me. Sometimes I'm fascinated by who they're featuring. Um. Other times I'm just like, there is and look, I was just copped to this. There is a little part of me that is that that little gay boy that was raised in the nineties and the early two thousands, who very much wanted to not be in my circumstance, who looked up to people that were famous for better or worse, and um wanted to be part of that world and was susceptible to that type of culture. And

I think that I'm not alone there. And I think that if we're actually like gonna be honest about it. A lot of us like who came of age during the time that is being sort of reexamined now so much it feels like the media can't stop with four women in particular, Britney Spears, Monica Lewinsky, Princess Diana, and

Whitney Houston. Now, these were all women who ended up in tragic circumstances that were at the height of their fame during the most vicious time in American media history, and I think that like part of I think my fascination now, and I think everyone's fascination with that time is because we can't believe our own complicity and because we can't believe our own um ability to be owned by the celebrity tabloid culture as much as we were,

because it really was mainstream entertainment. And so I think that, like when I watched like any pieces of media on them now, it's just there's a little element of it which I think is funny, which is everyone being like and can't you believe how horrible this was, And it's like, no, we should all believe it because we were all fed

it and we all participated in it. So it's not this thing where we like shake our finger and sneer at whatever one entity like Jamie Spears or like whoever it is, Like you know that that we're focusing on is the villain or any of these pieces. We have to look inward too, and how are we going to change our behavior in going forward? And so like you know, you know, maybe it ends in me on following Dumois

and that's the way I do better. But you know, we're all no one's perfect in this is this is this the subtext behind American crime story Impeachment, which Matt is watching very closely. I am watching, you know, I am watching it. Um, I h it's it's definitely interesting. I mean, I think that it's taking obviously extremely sympathetic um angle towards Monica, and I think that that is both um in line with the times and also like

due to her involvement and as a producer. And I think it's pretty honest in terms of like how it happened. You know, he abused his power against her and she was a vulnerable kid, and it ended up much worse

for her than it did for him. And I'm reminded of you know, Bone and I going to Radio City musical to see Tony Bennett and Lady got a few months ago and he walked in the room and you got a standing ovation from everyone in there, and I'm like, you know, like not to say this everyone not everyone, um, And I was like, I was like, oh, I'm a little bit for sitting down for stings. I just didn't you know, he doesn't need my my classic like and I also feel like, you know, not to say that.

The the the miniseries is you know, a work of like nonfiction down Obviously it's leaning into some stuff, but you know, he's not worthy of applause. The guy exactly the lean cuisine of it. All tons of lean cuisines and not a lean cuisine work. And that also makes you see yourself because that's another thing like if I would if I was if this was me in the nineties right now, I'd be lean cuisine in lane pocketing. I was lane pocketing well into the early teensies. Wow,

at best, boy, I can't said earlier. And I can't believe that has that didn't catch on is like, uh, you know, like tar or whatever. I can we really were you want to know what? I just think it's because people probably just loved Best Buy too much already, you know what I mean, that's probably the best by It's just too true. It's probably true, it's probably yeah, um yeah, I'm enjoying it and um impeachment and and I'm everyone is very I'm curious as to how Hillary

will be handled. That's that's another thing, is they're really dangling the Hillary carrot bow. Yes, yes, falco right right, right, right right. So you know, the Hillary episode is going to be magnificent, but there's gonna be a there's gonna be a basically, there's gonna be a Carmelo soprano like meltdown moment, and we are going to witness it, and we are going to live out Hillary dressing down Bill like like anyone would want to that that watched that

unfold all those years ago, you know. But also it's just like again and Hillary is another one of them where it's just like we keep fixating on these women and it's just like it's because we can't deal with the fact that we've like treated them so badly and like the world has been so misogynist in terms of how we know them, you know what I mean, It's really interesting. Oh but I congratulations, thank you on what today's promotion day. Yes, but like we said, just it's

just it's it's mostly just ceremonial and that's great. I've always been curious about this. How do you feel the like right when you're about to start up Uh. To be totally honest, I feel very nervous. I'm just I I felt like I had a nice solid week after wrapping this movie that Matt and I did with Joe

and Booster again, congratulations, thank you. Between that and starting up work again this week, I had a nice week of just like pure stillness and bliss and it was like it was something that I was craving all summer. And then now, I mean we went back into thirty rock today was to get tested and then I ran into some people and I mean saw like a lot of like like crew guys, and I was like, oh wait, this is nice, Like it was just nice to be like, hey, like,

how is your summer? You look great like all these things. Um, But then it was it's it's just been in the saying out loud things that I would only say when the season is on, Like yeah, anyway, I just got this idea Neodling around and um, you know, let let it like, um, let's work on something like just like

like little micro expressions. I can't think of too many right now, but like but now, like those are for lack of a better word, triggering, and I'm like, oh, okay, you know, like thematically, I'm like back in this like place of being like, oh this is uncomfortable or this

is nerves, this is nerve wracking. But uh talking to a lot of other people and they're just like and I think I think eight Brian in particular is just like, let's just like let's just try to like healthily detached as much as possible, which I think is the way to go. Yeah. I'm just always like, are you preparing your body for sure? Is I did him? I didn't? What does that mean nothing? What does that mean? Bowen got laid a bunch last week? Right? Stop? Stop ready.

That's not preparation sexual preparation. It's getting your body absolutely taken care of for the moment where you step on stage or hun of millions and everyone watching at home said he has sex. There is a glow. I wondered if it was a ring light he came on this, whether he was wearing no glasses. I was like, are we doing no glasses? Absolute bowen yang face to face and he said, let me put them on. I was like, but you look stunning, And it's because he has the glow.

He got that glow. The only preparation aspect of that is that it's like, well, I'm know, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna have sex when the show is like, it's just I will be too stressed out for the next eight months, which is fine. I don't know. I don't know. It's um and my my, my, my body. I did a meditation yesterday. I don't know if it helps. I feel like it's just me like beating the tied back and there's like a title wave coming. But it's

it's fine, it's fine, It's gonna ask something, thank you. Oh. Is it very interesting to us that like the four women that Matt named off Diana, Whitney, Brittany and said miss Monica, like that they are from like a similar

time period and that we're still fixated on them. Is it that there's been this like twenty year cycle or twenty years sort of like m hmm, turnaround on it where culturally we're interested in that specific time in like culture, or is it that like they are the last sort of still lag might whatever calcified thing in like an intense scrutiny of like pop cultural figures that like they remained that they're the last we have, like they're the last thing that we remember being this um unified in

our lif Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's it is the you know, it's the cycle, Like they're up in the cycle for sure. And then also yeah, I mean it that is there is nothing that we all know about now there not, but there's not a ton of god so fucking twenty years from now, it'll be you know, even it'll be weird. No, just the things that we're gonna be looking back on, you know, the Ryan Murphy UH Prestige series of the UH in late twenties thirties about you know, the Trump years and all that. It's

gonna be. It's gonna be. No, it's weird to see, like because there used to be like obsession with the nineties. Sure, but I feel like something has happened in the last like five years where the nineties have truly become retro, Like the nineties have truly become like another time it used to feel like like like the eighties were I feel like we've officially moved on. Maybe we've literally moved into a new decade. And so this is true, but it feels retro now and like from a far away

just at land for the first time ever. And I feel like that's why we're seeing so much content about it, because it's the first time that that all feels nostalgic. Maybe, but it's not. It's not even nostalgia anymore. It's like, here's the underbell at which we have. Like back during the early buzz feed days when it was like for millennials, it'd be like, remember how fun that time was, And now it's like, no, everything was fucked. Uh yeah, yeah, I mean do you remember we had a sketch about

this in Popular lat Yeah. I mean, you guys, it's a Matt Rodger study Green before you were in the group. So it was like it was like in the vein of like a BuzzFeed like like it was like a kid's bought music video, which was like them talking about nineties stuff, and it was just like remember tang oh Friends, Like it was just like you know, like and then we just sneak in like the like Unibar, not like

Kosovo or like you know, Oklahoma City Bomber. That's what I meant to say, Just like the nineties were actually a fucked dark time and so much was past off as like whatever, and then you look back and it's like lou Perlman managed so many of those kids, you know what I mean? Yeah what yeah? Yeah? R Kelly convicted to literally today today like this this is getting released on Wednesday but recording on Monday. But I mean like that, I mean, you couldn't get a bigger one

of the biggest artists of the nineties. They're just like it's weird, Michael Jackson, It's all weird. It's like the curtain gets eventually pulled back, and it feels like it's getting pulled back on that time period hard right now. Yeah, yeah, none, and it's none of none of it's good news, no good news. It's never the surprising good news behind that

thing you were doing. Like imagine if it, yeah, I imagine if it was like, oh my god, Nick Carter donated a billion dollars to share, you know, like like you wish it was that. No, it's Aaron Carter gets

a new face tattoo. Yeah, yeah, for sure, maybe that but like that's like the focal but I feel like the focal the focal length, like oh, it's it takes you know, let's just throw out a number, random number, twenty years for us to like really examine this in the most not honest way, but in a way that makes sense in context with like the current culture we live in. It's like, is that getting is that getting

shorter and shorter? Like I don't know. But um, as we talk about historic culture in our lives, should we ask you the question? Yes we should, Matt, you asked, Okay, so Dave, yes, this is maybe, um, one of the most important questions you'll be asked. So this is the cornerstone of our of our really let's just call it what it is podcast here, um and the sweet from which a mighty tree, very very much so. And so that's see that question is what was the culture that

made you say culture was for you? So that that pop culture, that just general culture, whatever you can think of that made Dave Holmes day at homes We'd love to hear that. I I think it was Annie. Yeah, yeah, one of the best songs ever, and it doesn't get the credit. Oh no, it doesn't. Tomorrow gets all the gets all the gets all the credit and then Little Girls. But really, maybe is giving you something you could feel?

M yeah, I um, uh that was what Year seven must be something like that that the movie, No, no, the the original the O b C. I did not see it, but my parents did. Uh. My dad was in New York for work a lot, and uh, and they saw it and I and I guess I was already presenting as like one of those one of those boys, one of the is he Yeah, I mean although that was not like that was probably not what they were thinking, but you know whatever, like what anyway, they saw it

and Dave would love this. I was sick and uh. And they came home with that, you know, O b C. R Are got the R And I played it constantly and it was my favorite thing in the world. And I had never seen it. I just read that, you know, like it was a gatefold sleeve and it had you know, it talked to you, you know, by beat through the story and then you know, miss Hannigan bemoans her fake little girls whatever, and uh, and I just loved it and I was like, I don't know what this is,

but I want to be a part of it. Somehow I eventually got to see it at the Muni in St. Louis. They do like uh an outdoor theater. Probably was a great production. I'm sure it was. Yeah. I mean it dazzled the ship out of a nine year old me on a on a you know, muggy August night getting bit up by mosquitoes. Um. It just it It's like it was like, Okay, this is this is what I do. You know what I mean? Like this is Um. I didn't really early on, like I read very early, but

I was never all that good a student. I have attention issues we now know, and uh and and I certainly was not an athlete and I didn't. I just kind of didn't know where I fit. And then I was like exposed to theater and I ultimately did not go down the musical theater road. But but but that just knowing that it was like people come together and like put on a show every night. Is was like I don't I don't know what that is, but I

need to I need to step into it. It was it was a very short step from Annie to the music Man, which I absolutely loved and cannot wait to see on Broadway with a huge I saw my first like I think it was just on Instagram, like my first ad for I was like, hey, and I'm thrilled to go to the Winter Garden some days soon next year. Um wow, and so and do you, I mean, are you particularly attached to that original that O b C.

That I haven't listening Ages? But yeah, but it was that was like my that was the first thing that was like my, you know, UM, and I wrote a letter to Andrew mccartell. Did you She wrote back she did, Oh did you? Well somebody did, but yeah she signed and signed yeah yeah. I had it up on my bulletin board for AGES and it was just yeah, I was I was just dazzled by the idea of like spectacle, you know that, because that was kind of the first

of it that I was exposed to. And then you know, in the mid seventies you had all of this, um you had you know, Share and Carol Burnett and um and all of these like you know, women of Sketch Comedy doing just doing awesome ship and variety. That was a big, big, huge variety time. Um, by the way, like that is essentially all that we do now socially

since lostdown. Remember is remember things, you know, we have we have people over to the backyard, then set up a little projection area just outside of my office in the backyard, and when the sun goes down, we have like friends over. We've been doing it safely since, you know,

since covid started. But I'll start like a collaborative YouTube playlist and like to everybody, and then we just sort of start adding still for it becomes just like so it's like music videos and live performances and old comedy sketches and like, you know that such a great idea, that's such a fun thing, so much fun. It's so and it's like it's it's so we're we're doing a lot of reliving of the of the seventies and eighties dance fever and solid gold, and you know, it's there's

there's a world out there for you. M m m M. I mean I've never said this out this kind of statement out loud, but like I really probably would have picked the seventies if I could have lived in any

other area. And but I've never actually entertained this question before but now I'm like, but hearing like anytime someone talks about the seventies and just like you know, of course another period of darkness and awful things, but like in terms of the culture, and even though like they're like there, I don't know how it would have worked with me as an Asian person, like fitting in there, because I talked to like people like Laurie Tension who

were around and like adults and creative people like in the seventies as Asian people, and they were like, oh yeah, like we never were a part of these things. But like I feel like I would have just been in heaven. Yeah, like heaven heaven anyway, not to not not to bring that up the race thing in but I feel like, Okay, I'm gonna make a controversial statement and say, the film

version of Annie has a great cast. It's Kathy Bates, it's Alan Cumming, it's Victor Barber are Kristin Otter McDonald, It's like got like a it does have a stack cast. I I was just thinking, like, but you must have been gagged though as like Carol Burnett found to watch her course, of course, I'm not as connected to the movie. I think, you know, it was a little bit older. I was like, she has no Andrew McCardell, She's not alien, Quinn.

We love her. She's a treasure. But I think I never Yeah, I think it was a little too old by the time the movie came out. Um, but yeah, but I just and that's a pure that's the purest

connection you have. That's exactly what it is. Yeah, I mean, and there there was, Um, it was partially that spectacle was happening, but it was also partially that I was seen in that way by my you know what I mean, Like it was, um, it was like, Okay, we're kind of the person that you are a sort of starting to come together and this might be this might be a piece of the puzzle. And it was you know, um,

and I around that time and seventies my oldest. But I have two older like brothers, much older, and the oldest of them went off to college in seventy nine and came back that Christmas with like the best records of all time because it was you know, it was the clash and talking heads and television and like all

of this stuff and like party mixtapes and whatever. And I was eight or something and suddenly knew about the clash, which is like that was like, oh, this, this is this is the other half, Like I not only love it without understanding any of it. Yeah, but it is also a thing that nobody else my age knows and it's like this is a key to a an identity that I'm trying to unlockt you know, this is so this is so interesting. I think more people should own

up to doing this. Like sometimes you're given something and you are you kind of do force yourself to like it whether or not you understand it. So I'm not gonna I don't need to speak for you, but as an eight year old, and you just said like you didn't fully under you couldn't fully comprehend what the clash was, and you were like, well, this is someone someone I looked up to likes it and is giving it to me,

or is like letting is exposed it to me. It's not aware that I'm borrowing it when he's at work. But yes, like, was what was that am I projecting? Where was that something you were doing? Like You're like, this is I'm told this is good, and therefore I will force myself to like it. Yes, it definitely it had a seal of approval. It was a thing to talk about with him, um, which you know, as a little brother you're always looking for. Yeah, and it was

like it was esoteric. You know that's actually yeah esoteric. Yeah, the Clash is actually good. It's like like you were like wrong, right right right, And you know all of this is very you know, it's everyone knows about it now, but back then it was just it just felt like this is this is from a different place, and I and I want to be in that different place. Um. Now that oldest brother like has a preset button for Fox News in the car, which is a difficult thing

to watch. That start of the risk you run when someone is showing you the Clash albums when you're a kid, as they could put on Fox News, you know what I mean. But but that is so interesting because because because just knowing you like, you don't get to become you don't get to just become this encyclopedic fount of knowledge about music and about all this stuff. So you had from a very early age a fixation on not just music, but like music information, music history, um, music culture.

So because you were sort of being exposed by by these records and that that that type of deal which is say yeah for sure, yeah, and and it was just it was like I can't impress on you enough, like how much. It was just like something to do, you know, something to be I was you know, I was always in small Catholic schools, right, and it's like and you there aren't a whole lot of boxes to

be in, right and uh. And so it was like, you know, I was fascinated by it anyway, but it also like immersing myself in it and knowing a lot of at it and whatever was like it became a thing, the thing that I did. There. There was like the toughest kid in our class in seventh grade, like the Matt Hugest like football playing kid. Um We're in the locker room and I had like probably had like a clash button on my jacket or something, and he looked at me and I didn't even know who knew. I

mean it was a small school. We all knew who each other was. But he he looked at me and he was like, you're a punk rock or aren't you?

And I was like, yeah, was not, but like but it was like if you think so, then yes, yes, I am like if that, if that like gives me an identity in your eyes, then yes, it's really important at that time, you know what I mean, to have that thing that people can associate you with, so that they have a thing to associate you with, so that it was so and and hopefully it's not a bad thing, you know what I mean. Like I remember at that age, like my older friends that were a little I didn't

have any older brothers or sisters. I made friends with older kids that were on the cross Kund three team with me, and they gave me a lot of music that they were listening to and it was like it was it was like I had to do homework to get to know it so that I could have a common language to speak with them outside of just you know whatever. But a lot of things I realized I

really liked. I found through that, like you know what I mean, Like it's yeah, I just remember, you know, I would never have started listening to the Food Fighters had had my older friends not said, like, you have to listen to the food Fight food Fighters, I just wouldn't have. My natural inclination is to listen to Christina Aguilera. So it's like at that age, so it's just different,

and it did. It varied me up a little bit because you just want something to you know, talk about and like and be involved with, and then all of a sudden it turns out you like it and have a talent for it. In your case, Well, two things. One, did you say food fighters because you're still mad at oysters? No? Did I say food fighters? You want to know? I said, come on, don't do that. Said do you are a fucking job today? Have homes? You are not going to

come onto this podcast and say fighters. Did want to save food fighters? And then you don't food fighters? I'm not sure, but I heard the most time he said food Well, we can run the tape back, but the most recent time he said food fighters, and I'm almost positive there was new food fighters? Is I know when they're I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Dave. And by the way, if that was some third attempt to get me to say the name of the restaurant, I will not do it.

I will not do it. It was transparent, transparent. Um. The second thing, if I told you my Christina Aguilar story, no need to know, Okay, alright, and then we want to take it too t r L two. But I want to know about Okay, al right, well it's it's at it's there. It all takes place, Okay, a lot of it takes place there at her apex Um. Okay, so April is the bottle is out. It's not yet, so maybe it's March when this happens, but it's like

it's before that that record has come out. And her label, which I think was r C a UM, did a thing in um in various cities where UM they would bring her at like get a like a nice room in a hotel and like play the electronic presscott ePK whatever, the five minute montage about who she is and what she's going to do and all that, and then she would come out and there would be a piano player and she would sing a couple of standards and then work the room. Right, So I went to the one

in New York. There were like a few of us from MTV went to the one in New York, and none of us knew her yet. She had not I was not familiar with the Disney you know song or whatever. So she was a brand new artist to me. And it was just you know, because mulan, because Mulan had just had just come out. But you were but you but you weren't familiar but that she had already sort of like yes, did not watch Mickey mouse Club, was

not familiar with her from that. You did not know her period, did not know her, did not from Adam. Uh So I go to the thing, she does the thing and then goes to work the room after and and of course she's, you know, got an incredible voice and all that kind of thing, right, so um so she's she gets to the MTV table and um and she and we talked to her for a minute and she goes, well, you know, my my singles coming out in in a few weeks and then the album after that,

and we all over your network this summer. And I was like, great, good luck, you know, I hope to see or whatever. Um and then okay, So that was the summer that we went, that we spent in the Bahamas like isle of MTV, like the summer house was fully you can watch on television, the absolute Horney thing you can watch on television. Um and and the story, the storyline behind the summer programming was that we all took a boat there and and then Fred Durst blew

it up with dynamite with like one of these things. Yeah, like a Bugs Bunny cartoon. You can act me like a dynamo, right, So, like during a performance of Nookie or something, he like goes and the boat blows up and then we're stuck there for the sing. So we literally are in the bahamas that entire show and uh, and we're because it's um, we're kind of cut off

from the world, you know what I mean. We had no There was one production office that had like one dial up connection to the Internet, and like everyone would use it to like check their email whatever. You would get Yesterday's USA Today at the hotel for you know, seven fifty. So it was like yeah, yeah, yeah, um. And during that summer, the single came out and the album came out, and they blew up and they went to number one, and she was all over the network.

And so then at the end of that summer, we then go back to New York. My first assignment is um, like a VMA's preview special with her, where we're gonna be on a horse drawn carriage going around Central Park, also a thing I don't do anymore. And so I go and I go um into the makeup room first thing that morning, and it's you know, like my colleagues who I haven't seen in months and whatever, and so we're like catching up and Christina's there and I was

like hey, and she goes, oh, that's you. I need to talk to you. And she like dismisses the makeup people, which are not her makeup people, um like send him out of the room, closes the door behind her, and she goes, do you remember meeting me? And I said, yeah, the Four Seasons, the thing that was great? And she said do you remember what you said to me? What? And I said I don't And she said, I said my single and my video we're coming out and I was gonna be all over your network this summer. And

you said good luck. Ah, she thought you were being shady, yes, And he was like, no, she remembered to a child. She misremembered well or she you know, she might have been yeah maybe. I mean she was very young and we all know the early years were. How did you make it right with her in that moment? I mean

it was the end of the summer, summer beach. Yeah, So I said, um, I was, she said, and I think you owe me an apology, and I said, I was actually wishing you luck when I said when I said good luck, what I was doing was wishing you luck because this is you know, we all know how crazy this business is. And I was I was wishing you luck. And uh, and I said, I I'm not going to apologize, and I have to get this. You

have to get this day started. And so like I opened the door, as I remember, and the got our makeup done and then we spent the rest of the day on a fucking horse drawn carriage and it was fine. I guess she shook it off and I was like, yeah, I love horses ha ha, yeah, yeah, he's so out of control. It was just like I feel I I think, you know, a long time ago, but it's like what I couldn't believe was just like this is you are.

You are in the middle of the most exciting time in your life, and yeah, that's what you're holding onto, you know, Well that's I mean, look, it says a lot. I mean, it just it just goes to show, like and then it's so funny because I don't know, just like you think that with more fame or worth more money or whatever, like you're gonna like lose, like like you're not gonna still be you, you know, or like there's still gonna be these things that you that not you,

that that those private little flaws or whatever. You know. It's just it's just interesting. You never stop being you wherever you go. There you are. Of course, when you set a goal or when you're like when you have a dream in your mind, it is happening to a better you, oh you that is ready for it, and it isn't ever, it is happening to the you that is you are, you know what I mean? And down to like any kind of like, um, you know, hey, let's go, let's go for a sunrise surf in Malibu.

Great tomorrow. Me is gonna love that idea, you know what I mean? And then like and then your alarm goes off and you're not You're yesterday. You know, You're the you that went to bed and you're gonna turn off your alarm and go right back to sleep. Um. Anyway, so I'm sure she's worked all that ship out, I will say this. Um. So we did that for the day and then and then there was there was a trl that was live and she was the guest and she performed in whatever, and I came back in and

again back in the makeup room. Um, she was like, how many more people were outside to day than usual? And I was like, I don't, I don't know. What do you mean? I mean, like what percentage more people were out in Times Square then you would usually set there? And I was like, yeah, like percentage of the people who were their head signs for me? You don't know, I don't know. That's my Christina Aguilera story. She would

have been a great. Um, that's a fantastic story. First of all, we should say this is why David Holmes is like a true one of the best pop culture story tellers we have, which makes them a great journalist in that way as well. I'll call out a child. I am not afraid to put a child on blast their behavior when they were a child. I mean, going

through the trauma of early fame. We're all complicit in this when when like if we think about Brittany, we were all like mistreating this child anyway, But whatever, have they re cut the Madonna Brittany Christina performance from the v M as like the original cutginal cut. Originally you didn't see Madonna kiss Christina because the camera was on just Justin. Now it's on him for like a split second, but you do catch the tail end of the kiss.

I have to say this, I remember when I was that age watching it that what happened was, I feel so good. They kiss Madonna and Brittany cuts to Justin timber Lake with his okay face, and then it cuts back and you do for a split second Christina and Madonna kissing and they pull away. So I think that it was there. It just again was the media just didn't focus on that. The headline was Brittany kisses Madonna.

Subheadline also Christina too. Yeah, totally. And Justin has to watch And anytime anytime this comes up on the podcast, I do have to share what Matt and I have a friend him Colin Cordopost from Collogeny always likes to remind us that the next day, Beyonce was reached out to for comment and she said that she was discussed. You're kidding. Yeah, I was disgusted, which I love. I love God, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

And Beyonce is Beyonce, But Beyonce back then would have you know, you know, took press and said, here's what I think disgusting. It was disgusting. What year was that? Even? Two three? It was it was long ago. I like this up it was two thousand and three. Yeah, um you know Rich jew act Yeah, yea. He posted a thing yesterday of of Madonna. It was like a Madam X event and and it's Access Hollywood is covering it and they're talking to one of her children. This is

two years ago when when that album came recently? Then yes, yes, I saw this. Oh my god, I didn't see it. What happened? Well, it's so he's whatever, they're they're talking, and then Madonna enters, and of course the Access Hollywood person wants to talk to Madonna. So so they're like, oh, David is telling us how funny you are, and David goes, yeah, I was saying, do you remember that time when you asked us to get a sandwich bag and we came back with a giant zip block and you said, who

eats a sandwich that big? And she just looks at him and goes, no, what are what are your thoughts on? Not a mass of me? You're trying to get out of this one who need the guess on the podcast? Yeah, okay, um, I am waiting for her to be Madonna. I guess yeah, I am waiting for her to say, you catch up to me, right? You know what I mean? You're exactly right, That's what it is. I feel like she's chasing something and that is never a good look for anyone, especially her.

I think that the industry in the world have has been as cruel and judgmental and critical to her as any of these women that we've mentioned, and she has had always through the decades, has had the attitude of I'm unbothered, and then eventually I think she just got worn down and now she just seems like she just seems bothered and like she's she's trying to be something that maybe she thinks is going to be relevant or surprising.

And I feel like you're right, she is instinctually intrinsically that. So you wish that she didn't get clouded by whatever she's clouded by, because she is the coolest bit. She is like Madonna. She is the only Madonna. But here's

something something going on. My question for you is do you have like a moment you've been around or like a person that you've met at a time when dot dot dot that that sticks out to you and all your time like being around this stuff, Um, I do have uh my mind goes to a thing that um the random House legal department politely requested that I leave out of my book. But you can tell you, Mike, I probably shouldn't. Okay, Okay, yeah, part no, it's bad.

You get people, get people in trouble. Yeah, is your book out? Yeah? Oh my god, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I think you're okay, Oh my god. Um wait, but what about well then give us the second best you have, Like I need an addictote if you're not gonna give me the one? And what's the question again? Can you

repeat the question? Is there like a moment like in music history or person that you've encountered in your experience being around this stuff and doing what you do that stands out to you where you're like, wow, looking back like that was cool? Like are looking back like that was different than anything I've experienced, or that person really impacted me in a way where it was like I'll never forget that there is a thing that happens when uh Tory Amos looks at you. I got to interview

her once. Um I was I hosted a twenty minutes for like five minutes, and she was one of the people that I interviewed. And it was like the way when she looks at you, she is truly looking into you, like it is those giant eyes and she just fixes her whole attention on you in a way that most people do not. And um and I truly was just like I am I am being seen down deep into

my soul. Wow. She had that X factor, that X factor, and and it was like some of these people are not like us, you know what I mean, Like some of these people are just sort of you know you see you see like someone come through and they got their publicists with him and they gonna makeup artist and all that, and there's just regular people doing their job like anybody else. But it was like, oh no, Torre Amos is actually uh like a mystical being. She is.

She's like someone who's a beautiful person, a beautiful person. Um. Also similarly, Prince, so we we did um I mean obviously of course the greatest like musician of all time, but we uh we were gonna do uh like a special trl with him he had. He was premiering the video for I think the greatest Romance ever sold Um not one of his better songs, but whatever. Um. But he came to Okay, So like if the show was from three to four, the whole hour was like built

around him. He was gonna be the only guest. Were just gonna play Prince videos. And he showed up at like right with a giant entourage, um, including one bodyguard holding onto um like the tub that cheese balls from Costco come in cheese balls, but full of dollar bills because it was the swear jar and if you took the lord's name and then you had to put in a dollar that was Prince's rule. That was Prince's rule.

Is this is this like common knowledge that he had a swear jar with his entourage or was this somebody it was a Jehovah's witness that's right. Yeah. And but also Anna Lewis, my fellow VJ, was like in his entourage for the day. Was just sort of like hanging out. I guess they were friendly or whatever, but she was just like she's the best, She's super great. But she comes in like in a in like a sarape is

that the how you pronounce it? Yea, like uh and uh And then like just sat cross legged on the ground and watched and it was like, this is like a sort of um earth Mother version of this person who I work with and that I've just never seen. But it's like, I don't know, I guess that's what Prince does to you whatever. So uh So Prince gets up on stage. Carson Daley is like, we were expecting you a little bit earlier, but we're glad you can make it. And Prince says, I don't use time, and okay,

what do you use? And he says truth, and like, I swear to God, I love that. Like all of us were like, yeah, yeah, I don't use time. I used truths. Of course, that sounds like a Housewives tagline. That was Princess Housewives tagline. I don't use long enough to be a real housewife. I don't use time. I used truth. Was the is the person that that ram has told you not to talk about? Was it Beyonce? Was? Wasn't Beyonce? Um? I do remember the original recipe Destiny's Child? Yeah? Something,

Can I ask you something? If I say the name of the restaurant that gave me food poisoning. Will you say your thing that random house asked you to take? What beautiful? Um, what a great quid broke quo. That really speaks to me. But no, I actually would get fine you and other people in trouble and you know what as okay, So that means the person was big, okay, jeez, well yeah, I'm gonna find I'm gonna find out later. I can't do it. Someone huge, someone huge, someone who

would become huge. It must it must okay, it must have been Demi Leva. It was not Demi Levanto. She was singing to a dinosaur back then. Problem truly, Barney for what was Selena? That's how they met. That's right, like you forget you forget these babies. I don't know. I'm not keeping tabs on their relationship. They are not. I don't think it's I don't think it's great now, but um, but it was at one point. I wish them the best of luck, both of them, both of them.

But watch your tone when you do it, because don't know that. Listen, this has been InCred We have to move on to I don't think so, honey, Oh my god, Bowen. Are you feeling ready for that? I don't think so, honey, moment I am ready for I don't think so, I am too, and uh, I usually do go first. By the way, if you don't know what this is listening

at home, this is a sixty second segment. We take two rants again, something in pop culture that you know it just deserves a ranting, and not to say like you know it deserved it, you know, but but this thing it did. Um. But when I'm ready to go, this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so many time starts now, I don't think so. Honey. Mess Hall the restaurant in Los Angeles were did you do it? I had to tell you something. We love mess Hall? Why did you do this? To me? Via my own daughter

and Oyster? And I was so happy. You should have seen me at dinner. I was at dinner with Joel, Gretta and Study and I was so happy. I was like, what oyster dies you have? He was like East Coast. He was like, well, I was like which one. I was doing my whole thing. I was twirling. He said, we have the bar cats from Virginia. I was like, absolutely, bring him over and he there sat down in front of me. They were pretty good. I could never have known. I think what happened is a little piece of ice

got on the oyster. You know how that happens sometimes. Any Way, I had seven days and seven nights of thunder in the words of Kimberly Lock and let me tell you, I have lost waters Rising. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's one minute. I'm so happy to end up giving giving props to one of the best pop songs, Capital B, Capital B Capital s of all time eight World water Locked, the second runner up on American Idol season two. But yes, it was mess Hall where I

got my food poisoning. I'm sorry. I couldn't hold it in any longer. I've been confronted. I I really, I just and they are my favorite restaurant and wonderful. The very first night I got back, I was like, I'd like to go out to my favorite restaurant, mess Hall, and I went. And here's the thing. It's not their fault, you guys. Sometimes this is just the risk that we've run when we have oysters. And it happened to me, it could happen to you. I certainly don't want to

be out here like harming the oyster community. But I just want to say, like, you've gotta be careful and understand that you can get a bacterial infection that that knocks you the f out t f girl. We're happy you're feeling better. It was like my blood hurt two days ago. I can't even explain it to you. Like I went to the after and I was like, Hi, what's happening, And he was like, okay, so you obviously have like a bacterial infection from the oysters because my

COVID test came back negative. Um. But it was really it's been a wild week, and it was because I went to that establishment and I love them so much, but I had to say, wow, it's okay. I don't know that I would do an oyster from mess Hall. I like it, but I always have to. They always have good ones. Matt Matt can't resist. I can't resist. I can never resist an oyster if he goes to a restaurant. Now, usually if they have them, I get them, Like and this is why I'm saying, it's equal opportunity.

This could be anywhere you get your oysters, even like a seaflue restaurant, the House down. I ever place the luck of the draw, bad luck of the draw. It's it's a Russian roulette, shuck of the draws of the d West Coast luck. I never mind. I was going for something. I lost my way. I stooped so low to do you a pun, and I I'm ashamed. Sometimes puns are what people want to hear, though it's true, do you have an I don't think funny topic? I do. I'm very excited to hear that. Bowen yang. This is

your I don't think so, honey. Your time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Live undried flowers? Why what am I supposed to do with you? When I receive you? I'm supposed to be reminded of my own mortality as I watch you wither and die. Give me dried florals as I'm like I'm holding in my hand right now? The whole day is am I doing? I don't think so many live flowers? Because I couldn't think of a topic, and I literally looked to my right and saw dried florals.

I guess I gotta don't go right now. I'm gonna own up to this. But this is actually something that I'm very I'm actually asking about you can just you can even say that I was inspired and on a real genuine inspiring moment that I need to I don't ever send me flowers. If you're listening to this and you have the earth florals, they better be dry from a website like a floral dot com. Wait, order all my dried florals. And this is We're not sponsored by them.

This is just my go to dried floral place. I get to put them in a picture downstairs on my dining room table and I call it a day, and they they'll sit there for years and I'll be so happy with the way my apartment looks aesthetically florally whatever. I don't care about this. This the sense no no, no, no drying like this world. This is well over one minute. Hey anymore the theme song to everyone out there, you don't send flowers anymore? Side flowers. Uh no, that was

not a star was born? That was That was a That was the Annie? That that which wait, that was Annie? You know what? You know what's an under rated Annie song? What let's go to the movies. Let's go to the movies. I remember watching that as a kid, in like the original, and like the it's not in the original, it's on the original, it's in it's in the first film adaptation. And I remember watching as a kid being like, this

is the chicest thing I've ever seen. People. It's like, it's let's go a lot, let's go, let's all go to the lobby. Wishes it was let's go to the movies. It is the most wonderful glamorization of going to the cinema that I've ever that's ever been committed to film. I think everyone she did themselves the favor and watched Let's go to the movies. I mean, Annie, wait, I need to rewatch. I have not seen any in literal deck. I'm telling you will. The score will make you absolutely cry.

I saw that. I saw their Broadway revival with Jane Lynch, which was pretty good. Um, and Jane played Annie. Um she was missing again. She was obviously great. Um. But it really is one of those classic little musicals where here you hear just I mean, tomorrow is such a good song. But I'm telling you maybe has Ma n y c oh and you know what, Like that was the first show that I was like, wait, they do a song. That's just the songs that you're gonna hear

at the beginning before anything starts. Incredible. Oh god, I was wowed by that ship. You need an overture. When I saw a Funny Girl on the West End in London, they do a full overture and it's like it was it was the whole score and was forever and the movie doesn't too. If you put on the barber strikes in Funny Girl from sixty eight, like the first few minutes is an overture and you're like, oh, I'm at

the theater. Wow, have you seen um? Okay? So you know how they did the real Live Brady Bunch in Chicago in the early nineties. It is low key probably one of the most important moments in our culture ever. It was very early, you know, it was it was now Joey Soloway faith and Joey Soloway um and uh and they just like they got all their you know, weirdo sketching improv friends together and just did old Brady Bunch script right and they like turned them up the

tiniest bit. Um. But it's like it was the first thing where it was like, um, like it was cool to remember to like know a Brady Bunch episode by heart, Like it was a little little dubious to have that kind of power and knowledge before then, but like this kicked off that like weird retro thing. Um, but uh, Carol Brady was Jane Lynch, Andy Richter was Mike Brady. H Melanie Huttle played Jan Brady and then went on to Saturday Night Live where she did that character on

Saturday Night Live. But um, you can find it on YouTube real life Brady Bunch watch it. Um. The moment that Melanie Huttle walks out as Jan Brady is like it is the arrival of a superstar, like we had like just her look, like the crowd registers her look for two minutes and then she's just like hi, and like people fucking like beach balls are bouncing around the house, people on people's shoulders. It's just it's like a celebration the likes of which you have. Jan is one of

the great comedy characters. If you can if you can do Jam, it's like if you can sing, if you can sing Alpha, but you can sing anything. If you can perform comedy as Jan, you can perform comedy as any old character in the West. But we didn't know that. We didn't know that. We weren't. We took her essentially, but yeah, that was that kicks off. Didn't notice the essential problem we we Didn'tice didn't notice, We didn't notice

that's her deal. Wow, well, Matt, I would say, this is a really really beautifully rich little piece of junket cake. Well we have we have still have dave homes as I don't think so, honey, darling, I'm so sorry. I'm all over the place. Can you tell im so stressed? Okay, that's right, I'm sorry. I'm sorry when it gets laid. But you know, but it's like there's there's a little something. Yeah,

there's an essential quality that is missing. When I tell them to move my guts around, I don't mean my brain, um let move my guts around. See, people lose me with the guts. People say that I would Yeah, people say that, and I go, oh, that's that's a lot. Sometimes I'll be watching a perfectly good porno and like the bottom will say something like, yeah, flood my guts, and I'm like, I'm sorry, I don't want to kink, shame whatever. But like the talking about guts is never

gonna know no, nope, no can contaminate my limb. Awful. I know. I'm with you, guys, it's disgusted. My limb is that man? No, man, here we go. This is you know you're gonna go right into your I don't think so you read Okay, Yeah, I'm sorry, guys. Stop, this is this is Dave Holmes is. I don't think so, honey. And as time starts now, I don't think so, honey. People who spell the word y'all, why a apostrophe l L? Where? How do you get by in the world? Person who

does this? What is what? Yeah? Let us talk about Let's let me take you back to let's say third grade, how we learn about our friend the apostrophe and what she does. She takes the place of the letters, the syllables, the sounds that are taking a break. She steps in. She wants to remind you they're they're they're they're not gone, they're just taking a break. Y'all is you and all?

It's not yea and it's not yo. Similarly, people who my dog's furious about it, people who say text as the past tense of texted, like I text you the other day, are you a friend who does that, and I hope he's not listening because it drives me fucking crazy. She texted me yesterday, you are not tonto stop this. That's one minute. This is the thing people also need to stop. I completely agree with you. People need to stop putting a space after an apostrophe. If it's just

a contraction of of two, What are you doing? What are you? Why do you know? It would be the worst text ever to get after a threesome? The person that everyone says, y'all flood of my guts? Yell, why a apostrophe? Y'all y'all, y'all all flooded my gut. Hope it's okay that I that I just text you. It's like, what is that? What is it? How is it spelled in your head? When you when you say that like text as pests? What is that imagining? I don't know. I'm going to do it from now on because I

do not wrong way? Are you? Have you seen not wrong way? Now that you're back in California? What is that? Okay? It's on the highway signs California. It says, uh, don't drive drunk, not wrong way, or drive sober? Not wrong way, don't ruin lives. What does that mean? I think they're trying to say, don't drive the wrong way. But that's but if you were driving the wrong way, you wouldn't be able to see it because it's on the it's on the front of this, so it's too distracting for

the road. Not wrong way. It's like, what what relationship is this me? I think it's just it's the wrong way to do things. It's to drive drunk, So don't do that because it's the wrong way. That's the way that I don't know, but it's it's very bad. And then they just did a rewrite of it, but they kept them not wrong way. You get on that one

on one you'll see. Don't you hate it when they make an edit on something a piece of writing, and then you go, that was the wrong trim the whole time, the whole time, the wrong trim the whole time, wrong tim the whole time. Well, this felt like the right episode for the right time. Okay, Um, this was so I mean truly an honor to have you on. We've wanted to for so long. You've been kind enough to have us on. Homophilia A bone has not been not wrong way. I thought that was not wrong way. I

thought that was on the ones we did together. But I guess not. We have to fix you're I know you're about to be very busy. That's what it was. I came on myself and then I came on with Dave. So you gotta get on there. I would love to. We will work around your busy sketch and Mat what what what a true A great many He is just the best and always looking good, always looking good, always looking good. Yeah, wonderful man, very handsome. You want to talk.

It was much like uh Andy Cohen calling you out. Here's a little behind the scenes dish um. I we had Andrew Scott on Sexy Fleaback. He was a friendly and we left him. And Andrew Scott said, always quite beautiful, isn't he about? It was like about Matt. I was like, wow, Mat. But a priest said it. A priest said it if hot, priest said it was just if Andrew said anything to anyone, they are obligated. Yeah, have sex more of that, get their guts moved around. Oh no, I'm sorry, but you

know it's something our community has to grapple with. The fact that we say guts moved around like I just don't know who it's turning on. It's guts. Yeah, gut feels like not a gay term either. No, no, do you have it? Remember that show Guts? I remember that there was a show guts. Oh bo when you you might not know guts. I don't know. It's it's Nickelodeon kids culture. So did not have cable at the time,

but so much to explore. Um in the future. Then listen, Dave Holmes, tell us, tell the audience, the readers, the publicists where they can find you and enjoy you. Well. I'm on Twitter at Dave Homes also Instagram. Instagram is a little better. Um oh, I have a show coming out October twelve called Waiting for Impact Dave homes Passion Project, an episode investigative podcast at the disappearance of a boy band called Sudden Impact who were featuring to mend Video

Motown Philly and then never heard from again. Do we get to the bottom of it by the end of the ten f do we ever? Oh, thank you so much for not doing one of those sham investigative podcasts that just ended an open in an open question. The whole problem with unsolved mysteries the show. They're never solved. It's the essential problem of unsolved mysteries. We don't notice, we don't solve. Truly, we don't solve. That's the central problem. Well, we can't wait, I can't want to. Please listen to

October twelve. October twelve on the exactly right network, on the exactly right network. Oh but listen until then. You have this episode to get it again and keep you tided over. Boon and Yang. We are supposed to finish every episode with a song. Oh when are the awards? You guys, we don't know, we don't know. You cannot answer that question. I'm very excited for them, thank you. Okay, now, I just because I need to pick out enough. Sure, sure to watch. You'll have to send on the presenters day?

Would you? Would you present? Would just would you send in a little recording voice recording? Absolutely, you'll be presenting. You'll be presenting, um officially our first presenter for the awards. That's announced. Exciting. That's the whole episode, is us announcing the presenters. Oh wow, it may bring Madeline, I mean pleaseerfect of course, do a fun little physical comedy bit. Oh yeah, that'll be great, that'll be great. We're like, hey,

where's the que card? Yeah yeah, yeah, classic, the classic where's the cue card bit. But in the meantime, um I would like to sing a song by an artist who demanded an apology of Dave Holmes. Her name is Christina. What a Girl? One, what a girl? Whatever names you happen said, you free think, you finds your fines.