"Hot Enough To Go For It" (w/ MUNA)

raising the temp up to the triple digits. You feel they were so hot they were raised the temp and you know, it's so weird to be It's so And you know what's actually oppressive about being here as an American is that everyone laughs at you for not knowing celsius. I'm like, I'm sorry, I don't deal with this at I was a failed science maitre. You must understand. I don't know about that. Bo I think he went all the way to the end. That's that's not true. That's

just not true. There's so much culture to talk about. Jennifer affleck Er doll on the Block Jennifer Affleck j as I think it has a nice ring to it. I don't know if it does. I think I certainly don't want to go to a movie starring Jennifer Affleck. I'll tell you that I want to go see Jennifer Lopez the Original Girl. What do you how do you feel that Ben Lopez? I would. I actually think that that is the only way this should have gone down.

Is that. I love that they went to Vegas, that they got an in line, and yes, there was a gay couple standing behind them in line, and she said that in the announcement, And yes, I did sign up for the newsletter. I finally bit the bullet the newsletter from the j LO. You gotta go on the j LO dot com. I can't say any anything else. I mean, if you're not willing to do the work, bow, I'm sorry,

more like flop bow. Um. Yeah, So they stood in line in Vegas and they got married, and there was a gay couple behind them, and they were all sort of marching towards love, you know what I mean. And Jennifer Afflet is her name now, but I believe it should be Ben Lopez. I love that so much. Um, chromatic A Ball is starting starting. You know, the gays are sort of feeling mixed emotions about the Chromatic A Ball.

I'm seeing some people I actually haven't. I don't think so, honey. Later, that is a little bit of a criticism, okay, that a lot of people have been saying online about the Chromatic A Ball. So you're agreeing with a criticism. I'm agreeing with a single criticism about the set list that there's no art pop. Why would you do that to me? Okay, let's I don't understand why you would do that to me. You cut that, We'll cut that. No, don't cut it? Not for my benefit? You know what. I still think

you're gonna be big slay, big slay on me. I don't think so. Maney, even if people know it already, you don't need the reveal. You have never needed the reveal. I have never needed it because I continue to surprise. That's that's the um. What else? What else? What other culture? What culture? Hunt? What culture? And I don't think you and I have really I think people have been upset because we haven't really talked about the funny girl of it all. Well I saw it, Well, did you see Okay.

So this morning Beanie put out a little dispatch and she said that she has tonsilitis and that she is not allowed to be there until she is no longer contagious, and um, it's really sad. I just think the whole thing is that this is this is what we can all agree on. The whole thing is tragic. It is a tragedy. It is a modern tragedy proportions. I saw it. I literally saw it with an understudy. It was one of the performances that Beanie missed. Um, it seems like

there have been a lot. I don't blame her. I don't blame her. Look neither do I honestly at this point, like I don't know if I would want to be in that atmosphere anymore either. To be honest with you, I am a huge Beanie fan. I loved her as Mono, I loved her in Book Smart. It's just not not everyone is supposed to play every part, and that's okay, that's okay. Beanie should play every part in what we do in the Shadows, which she was also very looking great in that. She was great and so much. I'm

a Beanie fan. This is a Beanie stand account. Speaking of casting, my sister was cast recently in a moona music video. I was cast. You were cast. You were plucked out of obscurity and plopped into truly one of my favorite music videos of the year on on a track from one of my my I think the my favorite album of the year. I don't think anything pay the most period, certainly period. This is so I'm so excited that our guests are here. Well, it's been a

long time coming. Absolutely, I almost said period again, but the thing is, it's really more of an ellipsis because there's so much more to come from this episode and because guess I love what I want music video. And you know what I observed on that day bo what joy, joy, enthusiasm, a galvanization. I observed a unit unit, a band as a unit coming together to say. I observed Megstalter, a lot of Mextalter. What were they coming together together to say?

Big sleigh? They were coming together to say big sleigh. Well, what they were coming together say was well I want yeah, which sort of is how it goes, you know what I mean? Absolutely in the general vicinity. Yeah, you know, there was a point where they had to teach us the lyrics because we had to start of singing along, and then about two takes in we were told, hey, guys, you know what, don't sing along. That's producing. That's producing,

that's executive decision is. That's leadership, that's pop stardom, that's goals. Ellipsis, it's called ellipsis. Crazy to have a front ur of title of that already haven't even spoken. They haven't even spoken. The self titled a new album Muna is critically a claim. Let's say that. And I think their best work, which is saying fucking something. Yeah, Okay, don't don't you forget? Don't you forget about you? And saves the world? Never never forgot. Save the world. That's what I said. You

sauld save the world. I said, saves the world. Okay, roll the tape back, roll the tape literally, roll the tape literally, rolled the tape back. Right now, I'm like, Doug announcement, announcement, dougas COVID violation. But I can't help myself. I have to say the truth, dougas covid. Um, we wish him the best. Um, he's in the chat right now. You're being a little too I ironic about this in your tone and really uncomfortable. He seemed to be in

a really good emotional space, physical space. He says he's foggy, and then you called him a fogget, which is unacceptable and you should you owe him up? Come on, that was funny. Fogg it. Oh my god, that's brand new. No one's ever done that before, olypsus. No one ever said I'm feeling a little foggy lately, and then you look at them and you go, fogg it. No one's ever done it. Okay, well, well it's time to bring in.

They are truly fantastic, fave bandler, fave handler. Individually they are known as Joe Askin, Naomi McPherson, Katie Gavin, but together they are guests, So please welcome. Oh my god, boom feeling, how's it feeling? It feels totally unreal to be uh in this zoom right now because I listened to y'all all the time. Stop that it's crazy to be actually on the episode because I'm just feeling like I'm ready to listen to the episode, but I'm also

speaking on it. Well, guess what you're speaking on it? To speak on it, they're about how about you. I was going to say the same thing as as Katie. This is an opportunity of lifetime for readers like readers, readers, public people, this is this is a moment for queer people. It is it really will be. I think I'm just excited to be back in the vicinity of actually the scenes stealer. I think of the music video. Oh I'm not even sure. I'm not even sucking you yet, permission

to fuck. I'm not kidding. When we saw the first cut, I my job was on the floor. I was flabbergasted. Little did I know that every moment a camera was on you, you were actually giving it two thousand percent. I don't really give less. I will say thank you for allowing me a platform to get some of our merch out there. Because the is what candy is based on. Shirt that was the sort of Easter egg for the readers and publicists, many of whom I know crossover as

as a moona fandom. Do you guys have a name for your fans? I guess what they're in the moon diverse or what do we call them? What do we call them? What they called themselves something? What do they call I don't remember the Celibs Club. I love that. That's amazing, comes up like depressed something like it's very clinical. I wonder if it's going to change this record cycle because it's so much more harty, or if it's going to splinter the group is going to splinter, that will

still be some in the CELLBC club, We'll see. This is the thing. I think the music has always been um as as I said, I think you guys have all put it like somewhat about like queer melancholic. But even with this outBut it's always the joy has always been there. I don't think the joy was ever I don't think you're introducing the joy to people necessarily. It's maybe packaged in a new way, but I think it

was always joyful. It was I love that. Yeah, there was joy underneath for sure, and I think we just struggled to like integrate it into the into the it's not that but but Joe was saying that it's horny this, this one's horn here, And I didn't mean to imply that. You guys, you know this is deliberate like joy is like yeah about that? Yeah, that reads I don't think I can talk about it. I think Katie is probably the person who can talk about being horty based on

Katie's affliction lately confliction. I can't believe you're going right into this. I listened to the episode with Meg like this morning because I'm like I needed to get in the space, and I was like, well, I'm going there. The first thing I have to bring up is something crazy. You're going you're just kiddie, the fliction on UM. They've noticed recently that we've been in a few situations in

public where we've been having a conversation. I could think of one time we were out to brunch and somebody did walk by and when I did hear summer, what I did do is I did stop mid sentence and I did exclaim what did I say? Titties? I didn't know. I don't know if it was titties somewhat opened up a commerce station, which led us to there's like kind of a Muna like language. There's like, you know, language

that we kind of cycle through. There's phrases that was like as most best friends have and know a little something about that, right, and Titty's led us to a conversation about um uh. One person and you don't have to name the name. I'm not. We stopped here and I'm to share the phrase I would love to The phrase was Big Natural Drugs, and that led us to Big Naturals. So we're thinking that we need to do a side project at some point called Big Natural. Yeah.

I think that's on the deluxe, the deluxe edition of this album that right now. I don't really care about boobs necessarily, like in a I don't know. I like movies, but I don't necessarily they have to date. I'm also I also like people that cut their movies off. You know, It's not necessarily one way or the other for me, but it's an energy. It's an energy energetic. Yeah, it's sort of like Dick Like. I'm not actually a Dick fan.

Like I'm not like, I don't wait up in the morning and think, oh, you know what, I can't wait for today Dick Like. I'm not like and I'm not like when I'm like like, for example, like when those photos of John Hamm and his big old dicks swinging around there, I was definitely there. I actually have a I was in a restaurant in New York and me and my friend who was straight a straight man, we were just were like, well, we have to look at

this for at least thirty minutes. Yeah, we did. And I feel like, but naturals are the tips are the same way. It's like if a pair comes on, it comes along that's so undeniable. You're like, we have to

Sara for a little bit. Sometimes, Yeah, you're enjoying something like as an anthropologist, absolutely, yeahats It's like I can appreciate when someone like but sometimes it's like in a sexual situation and here's the thing, like like it's a little bit like if like when someone's like wow, that person had a really nice dick, or like the dick was so big. Um, I'm like like I don't know, Like I guess for me, it's just like they're they're not they're not a good looking thing. Yeah, I don't really.

It's funny because I don't really these days. It's like I have sex with people that I have like that I'm close to. You know, it's like it's about the connection that you have with somebody and what happens in between, rather than like having sex with the bad you know, like I've done it or you went there so fast what I said, you went there so fast since ten am. But I guess this is the era always going to

be cell club and so way. Well, they are able to access the horny ist because it's like when you see something from the outside, you see get the clearest. So being as part of the Celibacy Club, you can you know, write the song like Chiffon. You can get into it in these ways because you're sitting on the side observing the phenomenon the horn of the horned up nous.

That's being gay. And I said, we were in we were in the tube, sorry, and the tube and Celestium goes, you know what the sleeper hit is no Idea and I go, oh, I've been no idea ground floor since day one. It's true, he has. He has mentioned that. One I was like, y'all, you need to listen. Everyone's like, oh, anything but me kind of girl. I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, amazing songs. Why is no one talking about no idea? I'm sorry, what song do I always sing? You always

sing kind of girl? Or handle me kind of girl? The kind of girl who things that? And then I got what you've done. It's giving. It's giving, Shania, It's well, it's giving, honest to God Country. And also I think, out of all the videos and even me being in one of them, well, anything but Me is my favorite video. But kind of girl, that video needs all the respect because that video is and the costumes and the styling.

You guys are sorry, but giving trade, I gotta say it was one of the best days of my life. Talk about that. I would love a mustache. You know, I'm not. We've talked about this and Katie's like, why don't you just do it? But I'm like, I don't know if I want all the changes that go along with me. I want an accessory, I want the five o'clock shadow, and I want the mustache. I'm over here when I'm on TikTok, it's eleven PM. Put the filter on. I say, this is interesting, and that was an interesting

That was an interesting day. I think you felt the same. Naomi. Yeah, I liked it, and also I did I had a theory about myself giving trade, so I'm it's just that I think sometimes I give trade. Of course, I talked to Taylor who directed this video about it at one point, and trade you agree, So can you can? You can you go deeper me? Yeah? You don't? You don't know what trade is. Well, I know what trade is. But when you're saying that, are you saying what kind of trade?

That's what I You're sort of giving like like hero trade. Like well, first of all, can we just say, the camera all of you and it's giving sild it's on the zoom. I gotta say, even on these shitty MacBook I'm sorry, not shitty on these map we love Apple the zoom cameras, I go, what's going on here? Katie? Katie has a very art directed like situation. It feels very like created. But this is what I mean though,

it's definitely giving lead singer. It's definitely giving, like you know, it's it's giving Katie, like for sure, I mean, especially now more than ever. It's definitely giving a star down

like the whole band. I'm just saying, like the camera hits every single one of you, And that's why I think it's smart that like for example, and like anything but Me, you all are like singing the verse because like it is giving, like everyone impacts on camera and this way, and I also love can I just talk about that anything but Me video for a second, because and I feel like this is an album you know sometimes BO when album comes along and just feels like

it's really speaking to you, like for me, like and I think, BO, you'll you'll identify it's like that that feeling of like really being emotionally trapped in a in a particular spot, in a relationship trip or with another person, and like finally you have to declare, like look it's you. I I wish you all the best. It just has to be away from me, like it like we can even have a friendship, we can check in, but we cannot.

I cannot continue to put myself in this position. Like and I actually went through that like pretty pretty immediately upon like getting familiar with with the album, with the song, and the video is so great is because like not only you're all trapped, you're all trapped and you're literally all like gonna have to like escape a life threatening situation.

And I love that imagery. And I really loved the specific thing like you tied to the radiator, like you hanging from the from the um, from the rafters, like being driven in the car blindfolded, the thing with the plastic change, like there was just so many And I think it's so important in music videos to give that many quote unquote looks or that many different aesthetics because it's always something to watch. And then the coreo you guys are doing is so fun and like it's such

a throwback. But like I just I can't say enough about that music video. I would say, this is I mean, it's just like the first time, if we're being actually real, it's like the first time this whole record cycle because of working with Ali, that we've actually been able to really communicate the visual you know, representation of the album to like its fullest degree. And it's just been it's been so fucking helpful. I never thought we could make

videos like this. I love that you picked up on that, working with that theme of like feeling trapped in a

situation emotionally. And I remember the conversation we had with Ali when we were figuring out what the treatment for the video was going to be, UM, because it was kind of down to the wire, and she came back to us like I sent her I had written a couple of paragraphs on like every song and kind of what I was thinking about when I wrote it, and um, so there was like a line at the end of it UM that inspired her and she was like, that's how she came up with this idea of like I

love the extra layer on top of it, of like we are trapped. And then at the end of the video, welies like, oh, actually there's nobody holding us here like us here, And I just thought that was so brilliant of like, I mean, there have been so many times when I've stayed in situations that weren't working for me, but nobody else was forcing me or manipulating me, Like I am free to go, it's just do I allow myself to go? Um, And so I thought that was,

you know, so brilliant. And we that whole crew, I mean, like we I feel like we owe so much to Alie pank You and Taylor James for for their work on this album. Cycle Team directed kind of Girl, Ali directed Anything but Me and I want exactly dream Team. Yeah, but Taylor was doing choreography for Anything but Me as well,

and it was like, we really do. I feel like we needed people to push us and incur just to kind of lean into those pop moments of like no, you can do Coreo as a band, and Ali has pushed just of like you should be serving to camera like you really are like hot enough to just go for it, Like we've had those people push it's hot enough to go for it, hot enough to go for a title of that, not to draw a parallel though, because but it's like no one's trapping you from doing coreo,

from serving to camera, like no one's like no one's so many of our own limits are like so imposed in that way. But yeah, and I just love that. That the last image I think I believe of anything but me as you guys all sort of running out on a sunset like in this open clear or you know, it's like an outdoor space where it's like, oh, it's it's twilight. There's it's this transitional period in the day.

But maybe in this maybe this person's emotional life, like you know, um, it's just brilliant, brilliant, and oh I love a director who can choreograph. It's giving Debbie Allen, it's giving Bob Fosse and he's such a nice guy. Daddy Alian Taylor grip together in Canada, and they both were dancers, So I think maybe that's where they like love for the choreo comes from. They dance together. They do a lot of like if if requested. They do a lot of contact improv, which is fun to watch.

I can't do it requests. I'll make a requests in filment and then we can we can send it around. It's good. Improv is euphemism for sex. I believe that's what dancing is a theater kid is it's actually to have sex. Well, we'll get there. Yeah, that's a horny to sex. Were a theater kids, like what was like? I would love to hear like what y'all were like when you were young and how that connects or does

not to each other. We all have done theater at one point or another, and I think, I mean, I want I don't want to steal Katie's thunder about the culture that made her say that culture was for her. But yeah, we all we were all like, did you guys do straight straight theater? Straight ahead theater and musical theater? You did both? And everybody did both? Right, Matt do

not until college, I'd never do anything. Okay, we I think I think that three of us did did like I know me and Joe both did some some some freaky shakespeareship in high school. We both did the We did the like gender swap plays, which makes a lot of sense looking they were like, yeah, you can do that. Um, and then we did musicals too. Yeah I love it. Okay, But then we're where did Naomi and Joe grew up? Would you guys grow up? I'm from San Diego, so and yeah, Joe's from like l A area. Yeah, I

went to high school in Pasadena. Where is Katie from? Katie? Where you from? I'm from the suburbs of Chicago, like Winnetka and Glenco. My dad lived in Glencore, North Did you go to a new Trier I did? Wow, you know new Trier kids? I know new Trier kids. Back Bennett is a famous new Trier kid. Oh yeah, yeah, new Tree kids? Are they have? They fucked? Yeah? It was a crazy growing up experience. It's such an insane environment for so many What is it for people that

don't know? Um? The North Shore is a cluster of I would say high wealth communities and New Trier is an extremely well fun did public school with a super competitive environment that some people flourishing and some people find super toxic. I didn't want to put that out there, but this is what I have heard as well from people who have gone. Yeah, I mean I don't think I've ever worked as hard as I did in high school.

So that's so crazy crazy I couldn't have worked hard, And I identify with that though, Like sometimes I do think about, like how I don't think I ever worked as hard in high school just trying to because do you ever think about how like in high school you really have to do all this stupid ship like you really have to do math, you really have to do science, you really have to do like all this stuff that you couldn't be less interested, Like I had to take

tech like me in tech, like women in tech like me, sort of just like like sure like Maglevay like like whatever, magnet levitation, Wow, apparently still there, just like and and therefore because you have to do I don't know, like I don't know how you got, how you all feel. But just it's like when you're in high school, and it's that mentality of like, well, you gotta get into a good college or you're got to get into you

have to get into a good situation. It's like your g p A has to be high, you have to take these ap classes, you have to do ib whatever, and so you end up working your fucking ass off, and because it's stuff that you're not interested in, it feels harder, you know what I mean? Like I never like being an a p euro and like Franz ferdinanding my ass off and being like where is this going to go in my life? Like should I be like

on the stage cutting my teeth? But you know, did you start did you feel like you started learning after like your formal education? Yes, yes I would. I would almost be and maybe maybe y'all think the same, but I would be more useful and college would be more useful to me now that I actually know what my

interests are. Yes, like and because back then it was just like, oh I guess, yeah, if I have to a history of course, like I guess it will be World War two And then I'm sitting there like I could not being able to care less, you know sure, I mean I would be very into that class. I would have the after Yeah, I think I think like I think I sort of I miss like I miss a learning environment. I miss a structured learning environment now because I feel like I am not capable of holding

myself accountable. I mean while living this life, I get it. I don't think I can hold myself accountable to actually retain information and to learn. Um, I think it is impossible to penetrate the the learning area of my lobe. So I do long for school now. And I did find it to be a prison then, but I also liked it to kind of it was. It was a confusing time. Yeah, what was the academic vibe of USC

while you guys were there for school at all? I hated crazy, like coming up an environment where like I had to do so much homework every night, um, and was accountable to it. And then going to SC and realizing like we had to take general education classes and just being in a lecture hall and realizing like truly nobody read anything you was caring and it doesn't matter. You're like, this is really bizarre, Like yeah, yeah, it just made me think the educational system was a bit broken,

like because it's again it's an expensive school. It's like people are paying for the experience of just going to college maybe more than learning the first experience. I was also gonna say, I feel like in college, that situation, you know, sort of being the standard allowed for people like Katie and myself to be teachers, little stars, to be like you. I feel like you would be looking around, no one would have read, and you'd be looking around like this. You disgusted me, like, how dare you not

take this features time seriously? Because it would be like classes about I don't know, like actually important stuff about, you know, like race in America, and everyone's like on their phones sucking off. So I feel like we were we were sort of looking around with a lot of judgment at all of the other students at the school, like how dare you guys sort of squander your education

at this point? Um, I was there on scholarship, so I thought I was just like happy to be able to go to school and not be like too scared about my future. But I also found it to be easy. I think it was the bar was the bar was an athletic floor, if you know what I mean. Yeah, I mean I want you, And I thought it was easier than high school, like, but I was in I was in titiontion, so it was like an like an arts focused thing. And so maybe it's because I actually

was enjoying it more. Actually was interested in learning how to write sitcoms. I was interested in, like you know, creating work for myself. And etcetera. But I would imagine

Bowen's college experience was more difficult than high school. I saw, like the I saw both sides of it where it was people like half my classes were people didn't give a ship and didn't do the reading, and then the other half of my classes where people really gave a ship, and it was like these premad kids, and these kids were like, oh no, I'm going to Oh no, no, I'm going to this school, you know, like and and it just reminded me of that horrible period in high

school that I thought I had left behind. But if you go into medicine like that's or academia or science like that mentality just follows you your entire life or your entire career. And that is really sad to me. I mean, you know that you were pre met. That's so fascinating. It's it's it's weird. But I feel like I feel like it got my like competitiveness like out of my system because I don't think I'm that competitive now and I have not been for a long time.

Do you guys, do you guys identify collectively or individually? Is like competitive people only only when we're playing sports? Which I don't allow myself to do very often because I get like I turned into a monster. I try to keep it. I try to keep it on the couch. Great. I will say, first of all, I want to say that UM, apart from our general ed classes at USC, Joe and I were in a music program there and it was like, UM, a different environment where like some

people were super plug in UM. But I think even in that environment, like in terms of being competitive, I think, uh, that program taught me a lot about UM. If you're in the field that we are in, UM, like singularity is one of the most important things that you can hear to the table, So it's like, do you have something to say that has to do with you and

your story? And it's kind of irrelevant to competition, UM but I but I would also say that being in an environment where I was around other artists who were doing stuff that I thought was interesting, was helpful. It was motivating, And I think now we're very lucky to have a community of people around us who are musicians or comedians or writers who are you know, like living their dreams and doing cool ship because it it motivates you to do the same. Yeah, And you can thing.

I was just gonna say, you can just be stoked for people's winds, Like it's so nice to be like surrounded by people who when they succeed, you just like you're so happy for them. I don't know, I feel like, yeah, we've sort of left the competitive stuff in in the dust and we just we just want people to do well and be happy. And you know, we used to have this thing called kuyashi. It's a it's a word that means um like being motivated by anger or like

motivated by the desire to prove somebody wrong. And I think that there is a part of your experience as queer people are people of marginalized genders where we feel like we can be underestimated at times, and so I think we also have definitely been motivated by like I'm gonna show you type of situation. Maybe that's not competition though, but I think that's just like ven yes, vengeance, We've

we're just very lucky. Yeah, that's a really interesting way to put it, Like singularity makes you irrelevant to competition, you know what I mean that that is if you really just focus on who you are and focus on what it is you're trying to say, like it will become specific enough where you're not actually going to compete with anyone else, and then you can release that thing of you know, looking over your shoulder, because that, I think is the big trap like when you're developing, is

you and especially for queer people, I mean, let's just be real, like you, there just doesn't seem like there's a spot for everyone, And they also kind of tell you that, like and because they they they meaning capital t like the industry, I think like they don't they they're not like creative enough to make all these spaces initially anyway, So it is on you and it is on us to like hone in on ourselves so that like they can't help but make a space for us,

you know what I mean. And so that I think is it feels like there was like an awakening, like I don't know whether it was like ten years ago or whatever that's like allowed what's happening now to be true, which is that there there is so much for everyone, and you know, obviously like there's there's so many platforms

and like everything is so much bigger now. But I also think it does have to do with a collective waking up and this realization that like you lean into what's special about you, not trying to imitate or mimic what they are doing or what she's doing or he's doing, because it's just never gonna seem right on you, you know what I mean. And then then then even if you are successful at duplicating that, it won't last, yeah, totally.

And and just like just not putting other people's expectations of what you should be or what you can do onto yourself or trying to not do that, because I think that can like it's an easy trap to to fall into, um, and it's very difficult to shed it. I think, you know, it's hard out here. We try to give our solves a lot of grace, and I think we have been like very patient in an industry that is not very patient. Um. But we've had patience for ourselves and like for what we're trying to get at,

and allowing ourselves to like sort of grow publicly. I think is maybe, I don't know, a little bit counterintuitive for the music industry at large. I think like most people kind of expect you to, like when you hit the scene, to be fully formed, like at this point because artist development just doesn't exist. So yeah, I think we've we've had to you know, we've had to just like force ourselves to be patient with ourselves and continuing

to do so. I think just in yeah, well, that's that's I mean, I feel like that's the thing to

unlock and that's like, um, the heck. Maybe. But also it's interesting you say that because I was going to say, maybe we're in this place now where we're not competitive with each other as queer people are queer like people who make things, but it's that we are still in opposition to like the industry or people who like or the middle management of the industry where people the suits, where people make decisions on your behalf, where they you know, like we don't have to talk about our c A

or anything. But it's like it feels like that was this thing where you you guys had to sort of survive outside of this system that like abandoned you and then and then like you know, that's that's like the

struggle now. I think for a lot of people it's always been the struggle, but I think now it's sort of at least I don't feel that kind of competitive Caddy spirit among other career comedians at least, it is the only thing that like makes us nervous or gives us anxiety is that there is this concept of like, oh gosh, the industry is not creative, creative enough to make space for all of us, you know that makes sense. I would just say that our like we were so

lucky with who we did work with. I think it's just like I think this applies to like so much art that is maybe like left of center. That's just like they just didn't know what to do with it. More than anything, they just didn't know how to work with us. And I also just don't think like we were really ready to be worked with to a certain like I don't think we were ready, you know, just

some extent. I do agree that it's like every step that we have taken has led us to this point, and we've really had the opportunity to grow as like musicians,

as people to like handle. Like I even think about when we did the video and like right after that we flew to New York to do t V. It's like that was some of the most stressful ship that we have ever had to deal with, and like we did it, and I went fine, but you talked to Muna like around about you and like, if that should happened, we would have all been like it would just could have been the worst we've we've really gotten the opportunity to, you know, become who we are at this point. But

I hope that's not the work. The work reflects well on you guys. Now. Even I was listening to the old to the old stuff, and I was like, the old quote unquote l L, it's like not that old. But I was like, oh, but this this still heads like it's still like part of that same sonic universe that is. And I that's interesting that you say that though that you weren't that you didn't feel ready to be handled. I think there's also an element of like

sorry to interrupt, you don't let you continue. But I think there was also an element of like, despite the people that we worked with being lovely and believing in the music and and us so much like there is a structural hierarchy in a building like that where if it's not working on its own, it's not working, you know what I mean, Like this this perspective of like if it's not selling itself, then we don't know what to do with it, and that kind of puts you

in a weird position where you end up like gaslighting yourself about the quality of the art that you're making, and it is. It can be a head fuck. So I think there was there. I think we had like a detectiveness about the way that we I don't know, the way the way that we behaved and presented ourselves.

I think like drew attention to the fact that like we did not feel uh safe outside of the bounds of like the three of us at a certain point, like I think we feel very protective of each other and of the art, and like we don't we don't want to compromise that, and I think we were maybe a bit I struggle with this just generally as a person, but I think we did have like a hyper vigilance of like you know, maybe sort of an outsized idea of like what threats were there and what was a

threat and like, you know, I don't know if that makes sense. That's very like ramboly, but yeah, I think that's just the thing about like when you're art is intimate, and also like, yes, you just don't want someone to

take the we just didn't want to be misunderstood. And also just like you hear so many story whereas like we were so lucky that we did have each other, Like we were never really put into a situation where we did feel super unsafe, but you can just so easily see how that as like part of this industry is such a standard and thank God we've always had each other. And like I don't think I would want to do this if I was not like with them.

It's just it's just sucking hard, Like it's so hard to I don't know the people who do it on their own. I'm like, God, be with you have boundaries when you don't have other people being like is this weird? Or like you know when to check in with? I mean, like I don't know if you guys read Mariah Carrey's book, but that was insane, like like the amount like she basically was like in servitude for for for for like

a decade to her husband who ran her label. I mean it was like she's basically trapped in her home Like um yeah, I mean, like it's kind of a horror story to read the book, Like when when you realize just and then when she ends the decade, the first decade of her career like incomplete exhaustion and as

like a joke with the whole glitter thing. It's like, you know, that's just a really interesting but I had never thought about how even just having one or two other people in the room with you in the same position can be a huge life raft because the solo artists, I mean, who from the early nineties is like okay, now you know what I mean, like you're crazy, or even even more recently, like it seems like like you really need those people that are there on your side

to tell you like hey, like I'm here for you, and you know it's it's it's it can or it can really become like a dark situation. I didn't read the Mariah Carry book, but I read Um Jessica Simpsons book. Yeah it audible, yeah, shout out, and podcasts are reading. I've been saying this podcast all reading. But it was really wild to hear about what she had to go through, like physically and emotionally um and the way she was talked to also why her label and she also kind

of framed like her relationship with Nick Lache. Part of what drew her to him was that he was the first person that told her that she could have some type of boundary um in her professional life and like that he kind of guided her of like this is you know what you should be like paid for something like this and um but but there's a there's another piece to that as well, because this was a older man that she like dating and then like you know the yeah who was in a band and it's like

the feeling of what that might do to somebody, um that you can't like figure that out on your own and you rely on this older guy to kind of guide you. And I've always felt really really grateful with Naomi and Joe, like we all have our own um like superpowers, but I feel like Joe and Naomi are really good um at vibe checks, like I know with people, like they have good gut instincts. I think perhaps I had uh that instincts at some point in my life.

I the trauma takes it away. I've had to do a lot so like try and recover that or like I have kind of like latent instincts and um or I gaslight myself phones raising their hands. But no, no, no no, no, no no, no, no no, keep doing I'm just I'm not neverrupting you, sorry, but it's like it's really, um, it's been so huge for me because I trust them, like, and it's also like we are um these equals like with UM these parts of our identities that are shared.

So it's like, I don't know, it just feels more empowering to like that you're navigating this with a group of friends, UM. And yeah, they've helped me a lot with with that. I wonder if part of and I want to hear what you're going to say, bon but I wonder just like to pose it to just drop a little a little question into what you're saying, Katie.

I wonder if that's because me and Joe have like mask privilege, like and you, as a more fem person like didn't feel like you had access to to that in the same way like I find that people treat me differently than they treat you or like someone more feminine, like do you know what I'm saying wild, I would just also say that you and I are introverts and Katie isn't next and so like we I have such different like that's why I relate to point to Naomi in this great Naho But That's why it's like Naomi

and I will sometimes be a party. You're better than than we've been. I am sorry about what it's like. Well, uh, them and I will like will be like standing next to each other being like ha ha, like we can talk to people, and like Katie's like out and about like able to connect with anyone. And I think it's just harder for us to connect with people, which maybe makes it a little bit of a vibe check seeing

it from the outside. I mean, like we talked about earlier, it's like when when you're when you are literally like

observing something, you see it very clearly. Sometimes Yeah, but I think there's that that little force diagram between the three of you, as I think perfect where if if if Naomi and Joe are introverted, then they can be the ones that both of them can be the ones to pull Katie and be like, hey, what's the deal or that they have something instinctually there because I feel the exact same way, not to like look it back to me and Matt, but I feel this way about Matt,

and I also identify with Katie and that I feel like trauma has taken away my instincts of the time, and I do need someone to be like Matt almost every other day is like, hey, what's going on? I think something is a miss here or this is good, you know, Like I think either way, Matt has been the person to like Keen well the traumas, the learned behavior, yeah, I think so. And like yeah, like we like all of us go back to college with each other, you know,

or among our among our friends. It's also about knowing each other period. I mean, like it's it's literally it's sometimes it's less about this person is this and I see it clearly and more about I understand how my friend is feeling, you know what I mean. Like it's like if if Bone is ever dealing with someone, and I mean I literally know how Bone feels about someone. But but and like they might not know, but I know,

you know what I mean. Like it's like it's like like we deal with certain people and I just know Bonen is either not comfortable or not about the vibe or etcetera. And like I feel like it doesn't even need to be said. Really, it's just like so now I know in the next interaction, it's like, oh, to someone, probably that we're not going to hang out with, like for more than five minutes, you know what I mean, or like going to be someone we involved in the

next thing or whatever. Just because you pick up on when you marinate in someone else's energy for as long as we all have, I mean you you also pick that up. What are the signs in the chat? What? What? What? What? What are we giving? Bring it back? Um? We we we all? So I'll start by saying, we don't know much, but we know our big three. We don't know what everything means, but we know enough about each other's to

that it all kind of makes sense. Katie and are both Capricorns, Okay, Joe's a Pisces mm hmmm, uh, Katie is rising Gemini Pisces moon makes sense. Joe is tourist rizing, which is what I am as well. And Joe, you have a Virgo moon which makes sense, and I have a I'm tourist rizing Gemini moon, which just sucked. But Gemini moon here, and everyone's like, everyone's like, I don't know, but it is hard. It's hard because you are but it's not that you're in conflict with yourself or that

you have like multiple personalities or whatever. The fun. It means that you can in take something and see the balance for what it is. You can see one perspective, you can see another. That's all it is. That's that's what I'm convinced it is. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I want to I want to talk to you more about that because maybe you know a little bit more than I do, but barely. Well. We were not astrology people at the beginning of this podcast, and then it

just starts to make so much more sense. Like, for example, one as a Scorpio, I'm a Pisces. I'm a rising Pisces cancer moon, so I'm like, oh yeah, and I'm also an extrovert, which makes me like really vulnerable. But I think that, you know what's interesting, Like I have very close relationships with Capricorns. In fact, my my ex boyfriend Henry, who's my musical director of my show Katie that you came to, he's a Capricorn, and I feel

that it's a good creative relationship. I loved that so much because I love seeing x Is perform on stage together. Correct me if I'm wrong. Y'all all dated each other? What the hell were currently dating? We wish but mask mask love before we get into culture. Culture was for me, etcetera. What's the what is the actual like relationship history here, what's that Me and Katie dated, Katie introduced me to Joe.

We started the band. Katie and I being the capricorns that we are, let the work overtake our lives and it became everything to us, like the band. And then we dated for like three years and we and then we brought us right after we got signed. But they're lesbian. Just think about it, but it's almost yeah, it's nothing, yeah, but yeah, and then we figured it out. We went

to therapy together. We and were bad at each other for a while and then we went to therapy and then we bonded over not liking our therapist and thinking that she was dumb. The three of us went to therapy too. There's band therapy, r you went. They went to therapy, the two of them, because I was like, I can't do this unless you go to therapy. It was it was a bad little while. Later on the three of us went to band therapy, and we also hated our therapist. Yeah, and that's why check in with

each other about that too. That high. Yeah, it doesn't real. It's pretty toxic to like consistently discard your therapist opinions. But we all have our own therapists that we like. I think when we show up as a group, I think we're being very well behaved today. But I think sometimes we can we can come on really strong and real cuckoo and like a lot of intense energy. Is probably hard for a therapist to get a word in

edgewise one and to like read the vibe. I think it's they also write their own narrative when it's like I think, as opposed to like a couple, it's like it's just like too many, to be honest, It's like three people shouldn't be going to therapy together. How could you? How could you actually? Well, oh my god, I want I want to get to but but the last thing I want to say. I have one more thing to say, which is that it the thing that's stuck out to

me in one of your profiles. I think it's the New York Times one was, um, they were clocking on the three of you. I think it was after Jimmy fallon or something, or after some TV appearance, like all three of you like checked in with each other in such a caring way that the driver had to stop and be like, I'm sorry. And all my years of driving, I've never I've never seen people be so kind to each other. That was the best night of our lives.

That we're like, we're just so we're the thing that is so unique about our experiences, Like we're just so fucking close. And also the fact that we're a banned It's like no one is going through this experience but the three of us that our experiences are so tied to each other, and I think it's just created like

hyper intimacy. Sorry my dog, she's going, but it's just pretty hyper intimacy to the point where it's like when we're on tour, like when we're not in a bus, like the three of us share a room, like we're just so close and I think, I don't know they're the only people. It's like if I'm gonna if someone's telling me a secret, it's like, who am I telling that secret to? Someone's telling me that secret? They know that I'm spilling the tea? Only them, And it's just

like I don't know two connected to connected. But that's okay because I think the theme in the musicians we've had on the show, on the podcast has been it's so hard to navigate this, And I didn't realize that the solitude of it all was like a huge component of it, and and that like the three of you being so close, I think is just so so powerful anyway,

That's all I want to say. Sometimes, like some of the solo artists that we found on, like we had Marion Morrison, and you get the sense that she's like obviously extremely close with her husband, but that like they rely on each other in so many more ways than maybe a regular couple would because they're both in this industry and they often tour together, and like, you know, it's like to have that so it almost is like being part of a duo act, you know what I mean,

because at least that person is like always right there and that is so important. Yeah, totally when you do when you do it, like an art form that's really vulnerable, you know what I mean. It's not like you're out there. It's not like you're not to say that acting is not vulnerable, but it's not like it's not like you're you know, on a soap opera together and like are checking in about how you felt about how the scene went. You know what I mean, It's like this is your

real life experiences. This is you know. I think there is something super like emotionally revealing about like even like what chord progressions you choose, like like the way you sing a song, like there's just like it's like letting people in in such a way. And so I think that that all really reads and tracks. I do want to get to the culture that made y'all say culture was for you. Let's start with Naomi and Naomi, what was the culture that made you say that culture was

for you? I wasn't ready to go first, but this is this kind of have to. I know. I've tried not to overthink it too much. I think we're all like diagnosed overthinkers, so I've tried not to overthink it and on well a core, uh, I know it's going poorly.

Um I I think the culture that made me say culture was for me was the culture of burned c d s. Yeah, so I didn't I didn't have like, I grew up poor, didn't have a computer until I was in my early teens, didn't understand really how you got music other than like going to the CD store and going to Tower a CD. But I had friends in like the fourth and fifth grade at my school we started burning the CDs. I didn't know anything about

pop music because I just didn't. I wasn't I didn't have cable TV, I didn't have a computer, and my parents were My mom was like not interested in pop music at all. It was like a jazz heads. So I knew like funking jazz and that pretty much that's it, and like movie soundtracks, um and yeah. I like I started to get into like pop music and like contemporary pop music of the time around that time, and like it opened my whole world up getting burned CDs from

my friends. So shout out to all my friends if you could, if you can think of a like a platonic ideal of like a burned c D from that time, what's on it? If you could say, like five songs, well, I have like the I definitely and that I have the headphones that go back behind your ears, you can tell me that you weren't looking tell me anything. I think it would have been, Um, it would have been

like some early Destiny's Child stuff. Depending on the c D, it might have been some of the first Beyonce solo album. I love that album. Um, it would have been that, it would have been like in Vogue, Brandy. I loved stuff was really two thousands R and B person too. Yeah. I loved uh like Aaliyah Mariah like all that stuff. I was really into. And I was also really into like grunge and like some heavier stuff. And I also like, I liked I liked Green Day, like like the really

Green Days stuff, and I liked. Yeah, I got into like Nirvana and stuff like anyone who's like eleven and has a lot of feelings I got. But I got into emotion too, um so kind of all over the place for some reason. I I just said, Nirvana, I was really in vain. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have to butche it up a little bit to feel good about it. Yeah. So that's like balanced diet. That's really it was pretty balanced. Yeah,

it was pretty It was pretty balanced. M Yeah, Okay, I mean so I went to Jennifer Lewis's Little Star Hollywood Walk of Fame thing the other day and I sat next to Brandy. I'm telling you, I was shaking. I literally I was. I was in between Vanessa Bayer and Brandy and I turned to Vanessa and I was like, it's it's Brandy, Like I can't believe it. She was like, do you want me to like stay hello to her and we can have a conversation. I was like, no,

I don't think I can. I don't. I was like, you don't understand like Brandy is like, I mean I think listening to R and B girls, Oh yeah, no, those were like that was like, I mean people know, like I feel like most like white boys my age, like no, like Brandy and Monica, but they don't know Monica. You know what I mean? You know what I mean. It's it's like but I know I really loved and I loved the full Moon album like never say Never, like all that stuff, Like I still think have you ever?

Is one of the most under other Oh when she okay, who she she's doing it with? Um? Is she doing it with Joz and Sullivan in that video? I think so there's there's a video where I'm gonna look this up. Yes, yes, I've heard of this. Her and Jasmin Selden dude do this little I think she's teaching Brandy how to do a riff up. Like there's like an up riff that she's teaching her and then you're like a hallway. It's

one of the coolest videos ever. It's so wild. It's called Brandy the Vocal Bible because like, and also you don't realize her range because her tone is so effortless and specific to her, you actually don't realize her range. But like, and you know who else is like that Tony Braxton range is out of control, Like if you actually listen to what she's doing and unbreak my heart. She is in the basement of the basement and then

like like it's giving like all over the map. But anyway, yes, Naomi is the riffer of the band and also has the craziest range in the band. And that's like the crime, not honestly, is that there's not enough name it is time throughout Muna that you'll be charged. Yeah, guys having on here looking for the crime, Well you found it all right, literally perfect. Let's move on to Katie. Katie, what was the culture that meant you said culture was

for you? Okay, well, I feel like my culture has been covered because initially I was going to say that the culture that made me realize culture was for me was Children's Community Theater. Give give all details of what roles you played, Like, oh my god, okay, So so I was in uh there was something called Wineka Children's Theater, and I was in. You could be in the productions between fourth and eighth grade. And there were a few of us that were uh wait, fourth, fifth, six sevent eight.

So there were a few of us that were ten show ten showers like that. They that did every show. I actually don't know why I said that. They didn't call us ten showers. Did two shows a year and you did all five years and I did all five years. Yeah, and I was like a fall play in a spring musical? Was it? Exactly? It was all musicals. It was all musicals, but there was a fall in the Spring, and they had different the directors like switched off. UM's like Alan

Taylor Exactly. I've just been trying to recreate the situation. Yes,

can you can you name the shows? The first show I was in was Joseph and the Amazing technicol Or Dream Code, and I was in the chorus and I just remember, um, you know, I'm a highly sensitive person, but I was so moved by musicals and I remember like being on stage for the the song Um, I think it's called close Every Door, and it's Joseph when he's like imprisoned, and you know, I just feel like literally like the pain of the world as like uh yeah, as a fourth grader and just being so moved and

so good and like doing and aweing. Um. I loved being in the course and also like the first show was very formative because um, being in a community of kids that had you know, this like schedule of being together you know, three days during the weekday and then like this long rehearsal on the weekend and having cast bonding and just this feeling of like doing stuff together.

And there was this really sweet older woman who made all the costumes named Ruth, and like the costume and prop closet was like in the attic of this community building, and it was like such a magical place. And I think just having this experience of like making something with a with a group of people, making friends, fucking around, you know, like during it, UM, I was so in love. I never really got um big parts in shows because something about me is that I had like a really

limited range as a singer for my childhood. When you discovered your voice, because you really are such an excellent vord like talk about singularity, like you know when you hear it. So I wanted to know, like when did you discover your voice? Yeah, I mean I was a songwriter starting in fifth grade. I got I started playing guitar um, and I think I knew, I mean, I knew I loved singing um. I liked expressing myself that way.

But I had this feeling that there was something wrong with my voice because I couldn't I couldn't sing the songs that were written for women in musical theater, like my range just wasn't there. And I found out later after I went to college that I had vocal nodules for like a lot of growing up that was affecting

my range um. So there was this feeling of I think in a way that's part of what got me into songwriting, because I could write for for my range and I could sing through a whole song versus like just being embarrassed and limited by not being able to actually you know, sing like you know parts. And I remember like we were doing Peter Pan one year and like I, of course, it's like you want to be Wendy. But I was like, I think I got cast as

Tiger Lily because I could. I just couldn't sing these songs. Um color mind casting at the time, especially, and I would be apologizing for that. You are a tiger Lily type. Everyone's thinking this, yeah, but I was like I would get um. I was often uh, this made up role captain of the dance troupe because they like, they loved me and they wanted me to like keep being a part of it. But they you know, we're trying to make up for not giving me real parts, you know.

So I was. I was captain of the dance troup a lot, and I liked it. I was pulling the choreography. You know. There we go, well that that position needs to be there. Yeah, dance captain is the thing. But also I also think it is so valuable for people to be in chorus. I was always in chorus, always in chorus, was never given like a real part until

senior year. Anything goes where um the I've told the story mollon times, but the musical theater director at our school was just like toxic woman and she um I had like burned that bridge junior and then she begged me to come back to do anything. Was because they were the two the two Chinese stowaways, and she was not going to cast a white person. It was like

I did her a favor. But anyway, this is all to say that like on Course, being in being in Course is truly some of the most um some of the most you full formative artistic experiences that anyone can have. I think truly, I love I wouldn't say sexy times as well, because backstage having fun, the people that the big roles were not having fun the way we were having fun. I actually it's it's a live that I never did any shows. When I was in seventh sixth grade, I did Peter Pan and I was like in the

I was one of the pirates. I was in the ensemble, and I remember like like I loved the rehearsal process because it was just everyone fucking around. Like I remember, I was working with these two girls and remember it was like the hell week. It was like the week before the show was going to go on. And one of these girls who I had always been messing around with and whatever, always having fun, turned to me and said,

some of us take this really seriously. And you're not going to take this seriously, then maybe you shouldn't be in the show at all. Licia and I never forgot it. It It made me feel so bad. She turned on me so fast, and I don't know. Now I'm a professional actor and I don't know where exactly icon Alright, Joe, what was the culture that make you say? Culture was for you? So the thing that has been hard for

me figuring this out? Okay, what I'm well, Naomi pitched me a few things, but I realized the thing that was hard for me when making this decision was, um, being gay and thinking it's like, is the culture for me? The first time? I'm like, oh my god, because it's like the way you remember things or it's either like something really made me interested in you know something, and it's like a certain things really made me interested in women specifically. But I'm not going down that rabbit hole.

But that's what was so confusing, was like that was such a formative experience. I'm just gay. Um, they definitely are tied, and mine is still gay, but it's a different kind of gay, not forty but mask uh uh so they're not going to guess what I did. Uh, This one got pulled out of my ass. But I

was really into the Muppets as a kid. And there's an episode of the Muppets where Alice Cooper is playing guitar and he he performed Schooled Out, you know, for summer, and I saw that, I was like, well, I guess I'm doing that now. There's like it's a specific Halloween episode and I was fucking obsessed with it and it

made me well. I always wanted to be like a musician, but seeing that specifically was like, well, I'm doing this and I'm going to be performing with the Muppets, So yeah, if the Muppets, I love like it would be over Uppets. I love that. This is such a great specific answer that did you can can you index this moment with Alice Cooper, like have you did it get unlocked for you recently or have you always gone back to that moment being like Wow, what a freaking amazing realizations been

a part of my uh. You know, I have certain things. I'm obviously like a record on repeat, and this is one of the This is one of the tracks, but it was a track that I didn't initially think of when I was talking to them about this. They pitched me a few other ones, which are obviously important, but uh, this, I had to do something. It's so funny to think about Alice Cooper guesting on the Muppets and like and like also like Sesame Street cameos, Like it was so funny.

Like so, Dave Mazzoni and I host this show called Game Show and we do this thing called Celebrity Essences, and one of our clues that we were going to use, I don't I forget for who for what celebrity was It was a guest, like a celebrity guest cameo on

Sesame Street. And there was this photo of Kim Control on Sesame Street and like in the Sex and the City era, And I'm like, if you were a child watching the like and you turn to them and you're like, who's like, how do you explain how Kim Contrall is famous enough to go there? And what is she saying to Oscar the Grouch? You know what I mean? Like, oh, like you're in the garbage camp. I don't know what exactly the form, but she certainly was on the shop.

It's one of my favorite pictures, like her like talking to Oscar the ground or like Elmo, whoever the funk it is, Cookie Monster, Well, I know a thing or two of that being insatiable. The Muppets don't give a fuck. The Muppets will well, the Muppets will sing with it. That is, that is what's beautiful about the Uppets is that they will sing with Alice Cooper, they will sing with Daga and a Thanksgiving special, you know like that.

They but they elevate it like like any The study was saying this for our friend Study Green was saying, you put the Muppets with anything in entertainment, and it automatically elevates it because you're like, wow, what's the Muppets. Muppets It's it's it's high art because you're like, it's funny,

it's cute, it's for everybody. Like, there's something so special and singular about the Muppets that you can't replicate with any universal universal it's real culture number four four universal and we and we should say real culture number seventy five, Naomi. We can't forget any of his contribution, which is podcast or books, podcast reading, podcast post. You say that, so I would say, can we just can we just briefly say We'll start with you, Joe, who is the most

iconic Muppet or sesame Street character? Like, who is who is the girl? I have the girl? The thing, the thing that I'm going to say is not going to be someone that I know the name of. Described Okay, so the girl is. There is a skit in the Muppets. Uh. There are two episodes of The Muppets that Live rent Free in My Body and sool, the ones that super episode and the other ones evince the pripe episode. It's

a Halloween episode. It is there's a monster Muppet with a smaller Muppet singing You're under my skin and is eating the smaller muppet. And both of those muppets combined, that are the girls for me. Oh my god, I don't know that horrifying. Oh it's crazy. What's his name? It's the big It's I know, the big yellow one. I don't think it's I don't think he's part of

like the original cast. He's not a no, he's a Halloween He's a Halloween regular, Like if you want to get your your ship rocked, he's on the show featured. He's a featured performer. I found I found them, I found their names. Do you want to know? Yeah? Okay, so they were both. This was the Vincent Pright episode.

The Vincent Price episode was the first season. But it's Behemoth is the big yellow one and the smaller one is Shaky Sanchez right now, just thinking, honestly, Behemoth, like I was there, I had reoccurring dreams about the Muppets, like they really, they really do belong inside of my brain.

And he really didn't number on me. Let me just say that, like, if I think about him too much, I'm going to have a night terror tonight to One of my most formative nightmares was that Behemoth took me and put me in the oven and my mom like I couldn't see it, Like she was like in the kitchen, like and I couldn't get her attention. But she had a similar dream. I'm not even talking with you were I was in an elevator and there he was in the elevator and my mom is with me. I'm yelling

at my mom, but she can't hear me. Yep, can't You couldn't hear me? Duo therapy dissected period Um, that's the Pisces connection. There's something there. Um. Okay, wow, you know, what about what about for Katie? Who's the top of it? I think the muppet I love the most and I didn't I didn't interact with them upp is that much. But the one that I should consider interacting more, I

know I should consider interacting more. Um, the one that I have an affinity for, off the top would be Gonzo co Well, have you seen Muppets, Muppets from Space, Muppets in Space of course movie Muppets in Space. I honestly don't think I have. I think they have been doing They opened well, the first of all, the movie is amazing. It's about Gonzo finding out where he's from, and he's basically from the planet that Parliament is from. The movie opens with them performing. All of the mupps

are performing brick House Gonzo Africa. The best movie I've ever seen, gonz Gonzo is Black, Gonzo's black period, Gonzo's Black. He's claimed by that movie. Rewatch it. The opening montage with them cleaning their else they all live into brick houses. Amazing, Oh my god, guns guns are having Parliament and like Sun raw Energy iconic rocket number nine. Okay naomi, um okay. I want to say this is this is real hard. Um.

It's a tie for me. It's type tie between Uh the King Prawn, who has a line in that movie saying that he's not a trimp, He's a king prawn and it's like his hero line. Um and Uh and Ralph the Dog, the Big Dog. He's really sweet. I thought you were gonna say no. I mean, like, because google Ralph, this is my subconscious the other guy too

much a part of me. But Ralph well. I also, like I want to say about Joe and the Muppets is like in general, I do feel like there's something really historically waiting for this with Joe and like um being a France jams and like alter egos. Like when I met Joe in college, like one of the first Halloween's, they were dressed up as um, like some type of golden parrot bird like in like a full onesie with like a like a bird mask mask. Yeah, and I

wore a figure skating onesie. Yeah. I will say I would say anything that is like freak core that I coined recently. Yeah, I have a copyright. I feel I feel kin too Little Monster, Yeah, send them. I sent her this video, you guys known the musician Oliver sim Yeah, he's he was in XX and he has a music video from his new record. I think the record is great. And the song is called Romance with the Memory, and like it's a bunch of like people in kind of

different whimsical monster costumes. And I saw it and I was like, this is Josette. Well, that's why I love drags so much. I didn't know I would love drag so much until like I started really watching Drag Race and I saw that people were like being absolute freaks and it's an excuse to be your freakish self. I would love I would love to, I would do anything. I would do Bio drag and I would do obviously, I love to King King. You would do both? You

would you wuld do King? And and and yeah yeah yeah, your hand gestures are very like bio. I'm rocked today. I'm in the zone. Yeah, I guess me a few hours will be more upset in mask. Well, my favorite my favorite muppet is Miss Picky Cious when when she says how it's the funniest thing anyone could ever do. She is a diva. I mean, she's a gay icon. I do believe she's a gay woman. She's a gay woman. When she tells Michael Caine in Muppet Christmas Carold to

leave at the end. She's so authoritative, she is in charge. And I will say, whenever the show gets foiled, I'm always upset. I'm always like, whenever, like the big show she's gonna put on, like gets destroyed by the idiot Muppets, I'm always like, why won't you let this moment perform? Like I also have a soft spot for um, oh my god, Waldorf and Statler, Statler and Waldorf, Like because there's a there's a moment in the street they're gay,

there's a yeah, the old guys. And there's a moment in the Muppets three day attraction at Disney's Hollywood Studios where the show is ending and they go and this is what I loved about the Muppets, Like whenever it would break the fourth wall and be like self referential and stupid, I loved it. So whenever like they're like, we're to get out of here, and the other one goes, we can't go anywhere. We're bolted to the seats, just laughing about how their puppets and there in the theme park,

like I think they are bolted to the seats. I remember leaving as a child of being like like like, it's like that gift of the woman with the numbers. I was like, oh my god, Like they're aware of the fact that they're bolted to the seats, like Hi, this is like eggs high postmodern art, like this is yeah, it's and here's the top Muppet and then we'll do I don't think so, honey. It's Beaker down. Baker. He is. Baker is a dumb bottom. The Beaker just wants to help, yeah,

but can't but can't do it. But he can. He communicates and emote so much with no words. It's it's so it's so iconic. I feel like Baker sometimes. I feel like you're the do. You're in the Bunson and I'm bigger. Bunsen is a legend. To Bunsen is a legend. I mean women, man and men in stem Men. We need men in stem It's throughly culture number ninety nine. Okay, well it is time to do I don't think so, honey.

This is a sixty second segment that we do on this podcast weekly where we take exactly sixty seconds, as is the sort of you know what was said as is custom and we rail again something in culture that's just getting to us a little bit. We had to exercise demons about it. I do have something about I alluded to it amazing. Okay, this is amazing. Um, we know what it is. But I think we're still going

to be blown away. This time starts now. I don't think so, Honey, no popping the setlist of chromatic A Ball, because here's the thing, you have to at least nod to every era. I am famously one of Lady Gaga's fans who does not like just dance. For me personally, I think we've heard just dance enough. I think I would have loved to hear just something out of left field, you know what I mean, Like you're back on stage for a while. Just give us like Donna Tella, give

us g u y, you know what I mean. I honestly think would fit in with the environment of the chromatic A Ball. I believe that Venus is sort of nearby Chromatica as a planet. I think that's just a hop skipping and jump away. I just feel that Applause is an underrated song, and I think people are ready to jump on Lady Gaga about applause because it wasn't born this way, which what does that even mean? Again?

I would even rather applause why I understand, and almost I don't think the honey myself for saying that, because I understand the need to have born this way because it's sort of in the fabric of Lady Gaga d n A. But like I don't know, it's chromatica. It's a different planet. It's an alternate Lady Gaga. Maybe we have Donna Tella instead of all these other songs. I

don't think so, honey, I need appause. I know Lady Gaga forgot applause, but I need I mean our pop rather, I need our pop. That's one minute, you know, And I didn't realize she also doesn't have any Joanne in this that list, which is you know, I mean like maybe we should come on like you're you're going to do like an acoustic part and you're gonna do always remember this this way. I understand that, I like, always remember us this way. But maybe we could have had

Griggio Girls there. Can you imagine like she's like Griggio Girls like with all her fans there after all these years screaming like, I just think there's some eraser of yes, Joanne, But really art pop and art pop was an important experimental CHROMATICA asked Era speaking of Sun Raw, Venus is sampling sun Raw like and and it's inspired by sun Raw Rock at number nine. It's she's she really did

herself dirty on that one. I just feel like there was an opportunity there to have a little bit more art pop, especially in this like brutalist like sort of like I feel like the esthete beauld very much lend themselves to art pop. I love the fact that she's describing this that as brutalist. I love that it is brutalist. Brutalism is something that I love. We recently were what was that hotel? We were staying at um not not the Sole Psycle Equinox hotel, and then we described it

as brutalist, and that really made me laugh. Brutalism is in I just I love describing things as brutalist, so harsh. We we love Venus Venus, come on hard do it what Lady Guga cover would Wuna do? Holy sh it? We would do probably something. I mean, I don't know. I feel like stupid love is up our alleys. Yeah, that kind of like Pulsey bass is very Moona vibes. I don't know, that's hard. We should just say that. Um Joel sent us the demo for some time times

for your covers. For sometimes we heard it in the car. I was in l A and we both like we were at um we were at the mall. We were leaving them all. We were leaving them. We were in the mall. We were in the mall. I will never forget that memory. You guys, like truly like stopped me in my tracks. I was like, this has and we talked about it. But wait, that you guys made the movie so much better. It's really cool that we have

made something together. You know. It's so cool and like I think that you know, that's so beautiful, like being able to contribute a song like to this moment where y'all have already contributed like this raw emotion and then the song can just elevate that and like die people, you know, to this emotional climax. I mean, it was such a joy. We worked our little butts off to get so it was down to the dang of wire baby, but we was a lot, but it's so worth it

every night and we prayed to trust. Um. I know people are upset that we cut the bridge. I know people, I have to acknowledge that because people are going to be hearing this. I know the bridge does not work for Muna. Sometimes the words are to kind of tweet for our like version. I think we really are very of the time. We did change the style of the song a lot. You know, Um, maybe we could have worked that out if on a different times it works not really in the O G version, the bridge is great.

We love it. In the O G version, I just don't think it I don't know. For me, it didn't work. That was when pop music was a little bit more musical theater, you know what I mean. It was more like it was more like you know that, it was just it was more it just worked for Brittany in a way that was not going to work for this

moment that we needed. Also, it's just like, you know it really it really feels like musically it would have gone to a totally different place and like changed the meaning whereas well, it's it's actually quite simple, you know what I mean. It's like like the lyrics are are they hold up without that in the Bridge, Yeah, singing

like the lyrics, Yeah, I was likely. I don't know if I've ever sang a song like this that's telling this specific story where it's like I am interested in you, but I like take time to open up and I'm like fragile and not necessarily available, but you have to believe that I can be. It was like, this is just so specific and special and really touching, Like I felt really emotional singing it. It is a specific, like per like point of view I guess hasn't really been

represented in a lot of pop songs. It's a big Christian, it's a big Christian. It's a big Christian. It's just a bit but it's a bit avoidant to attachment style. The attachment style is not represented in pop songs. But we made some We made some compilation muna playlists of like different attachment styles. Who yeah, which I think it's funny.

I love that. Yeah, I love it. Well. I will say that anyone who's who's taking issue with the Bridge not being included, get over because we guess what, I sing the Bridge and the fucking movie and that'll do. That'll do just fine. Bowen ys version version Bowen's version. Okay, speaking of bones version, this is Bon's version of I don't think so, honey today the one are you ready? Do you have thoughts and feelings? I have thoughts, I have thoughts and and I'm sorry. This episode has been

all about siblinghood and sisterhood. I just I'm going to come after my sister Bowen, Yanks, I don't think many time shots now, I don't think so, honey. Matt Rodgers complimenting Ramona Singer in a restaurant this past weekend, saying I'm a big fan, and her going, oh, thank you so much. That's so sweet. Why would you validate someone like that? Why would you ever give a monstrous person such as remote Singer herself this kind of good vibe? She does not deserve it. She is a pit of despair.

She is a black hole. The light will go nowhere you are. It is a bottomless container, Matt. It is there's, there's, There is no output for this. She will not convert that light into anything worthwhile into the world. Okay, she's a horrible person. I can't believe you said hello to her, that you were nice to her. I have lost a little bit of respect for you. I will you. You will gain it back. You will gain it back. I

have no doubt you will gain it back. But in this moment, I have lost a little bit of respect for Matt Rod and I hate it when that happens. And that's one minute. Sort of reminds me of the time that Donald Trump was leaving his afterparty for SNL and Bowen Yank said great show tonight, said complimented Donald Trump on his comedy. Um and then they've owned up to the of our time. If Unca Trump and said congratulations and patted his belly to signify congratulations on her pregnancy,

I have owned up to this moment. It is the most shange moment to come after me first saying two words big band to Ramona Singer who I was shocked to see at a restaurant in sag Harbor, to even compare you are films. You're in yuppy Central. You wished you were in yuppy Central. Cheer out of my god, I'm in London. Cheer. Is it possible? Both of these situations are classic cases of dissociation in I think so I was. I was. Can I tell you guys, I

was it was my birthday. I was this was it was Suty's first year at SNL, and I was just like happy to be there. I was wasted off my ass. And literally Trump walks by and I go great shown and then he goes, thank you. He looked him in the eyes and he said, Hey, I just wanted to tell you that I thought you weren't surprised me tonight the way that you embodied characters. I thought it was incredible.

But I did voting for you. And this is the equivalent of me like telling Hitler like I love your paintings, you know, like it's shameful. I am, and I currently am. It's it's I've never believe you would set me up in such a way to to to to attack me for saying the words big fan to remote a singer. By the way, this reminds me I did want to do what I don't think so, Honey and Dorinda, who continues to destroy any good will that she had on The Real Health Spies Ultimate Girls Trip season two, It

is so insane that bad. It's bad, alright, But I think we've we've both done dark things, as we all have as human beings. Let's move on order. No, we're going to swush it up because because because Naomi went first already, so now Joe is going to go first, going first, let's go. No, Nami was like saying that they wanted me to do this. In a way, it's like, should they when we pick what I'm going to talk about, Well, there's one, there's one I basically feel because of our

conversation the other day, Which which which one is it? Okay, it was the one you feel, Jojo, do the one you feel. Do when you feel in your heart, on your heart, always do when you feel in your heart. That's the original culture number four in your heart. Okay, here we go. I don't think so, honey, time starts now. I don't think so, honey, motherfucking liars, I don't want to do. In hotel in New York City, to be told it is two queen beds. Were you telling and

we were going in? I think we're gonna share a bed. No, these are two full fucking beds. Big gass and Naomi's big gass are gonna share a bed in a full bed and say yes, we like this. Then we go downstairs they say that no, this is a fucking queen bed. No, it isn't. We're getting a tape measurer and we're using this bed and let me just tell you every situation that you're gonna come in here and tell me something is the way that it is and it's a fucking lie.

I don't think so, honey. I don't fucking think so, honey. I actually can. I can end there in a way. I could end there, and I will come with you. I will come for you, especially when you get the tape measure out. Jesus. It was Joe's pacing back and forth in our hotel like we're going to get a tape measure in here. These are not queen beds. I can't stand it with people wide to me. I don't want to. I want my money back. I want my

money back. You're gonna do a little. It's a difference in the price, like the double, and we're sharing beds like that is a real thing. We do share beds when we're in hotels, but we're not we're not too bougie for that. At this point. We are sharing beds in hotel room said they worst, the worst, the worst, shared the fool with you, Joe Dooe I don't want to I love you, I don't want to know. I'm cool. I'm cool and a queen. I don't even want to

share a full with my girlfriend. I want enough room to be able to exhale and inhale your inside saying this, and yet you put a dog bigger than a human in your in your bed with you and your girlfriend. That's different. That's different. Just started agree bone, It is different. And Katie, dare come for me right now to just makes me want to put you on the spot. Are you ready, Katie? Oh goodness, yeah, so serious. Okay, it's truly a huge left turn. Okay, this is Katies. I

don't think so of your time starts now. Okay, I don't think so, honey. Babies having only two parents parents to have Humans have been around for thousands and thousands of years been raising babies. And do we have any examples from this time where two parents was enough to do the job to raise a baby? Do we have examples of this? Specifically? There's something toxic in the in the culture that we're growing up in now where we're in the nuclear families were isolated in our little homes.

Uh and more and more is falling on the two people. I would like to say that, uh, really, there shouldn't be babies that have any less than I would say eight parents. I think maybe one eighth of the responsibility for raising a child is the appropriate amount of responsibility where we have a chance of actually doing it right. I don't think so incredible. Now I want to ask the question to Joe, which is, Joe, do you support

Polly Amory when it comes to raising co parenting a child? Well, what is the relationship between me and the other parents? Like it's the parents are sucking every day and it's not compulsory and then obvious if it's messy, I'm fine. If it as traumatizing as possible for someone to exist right now, Well, if you're giving me this scenario, I'm really this is a long term scheme. I mean to get involved in when they're raising babies and I have

to say, I am not having a baby. You have the baby bit you might have, Well, I will if you'll raise it with me. How about I don't. I don't know. They're really wracked up about this one. I don't know. I'm not ready. You have to get you have to get eight people on board on the same like a like a damn a literal parentage here parent teager conference. Do I think eight is too much? I feel what do you think it is? The perple number? I can't get along with eight other seven other people, four, six,

six partners six. I would do. Six is good. You know, Matt and I were Matt and I were an improv We're in comedy groups with eight people and it felt like, you know, the work was our baby and it worked. Yeah, and never once well be all on the same page. That's that's like group. I'm against. Group might mean I don't. I feel like it could get really complicated. Sure, okay, Katie, here's here's what I think everyone has been dying into what I think. So okay, raising a baby, sure, eight people?

Why not you pass it around? Everything that you need to do with the baby is pretty simple. It's like keep it alive, like and keep it mus. But when you're starting to talk about whether or not the kids should maybe someone is going to be like, I think this kid should be homeschooled. I think the kids should go to this school. You're talking about preschools, especially in l A. It's gonna get real messy, real no one's gonna agree. Have you ever heard of of anarchy? Were

heard of group decision making? But his kid's gonna be fucked up? Is going to have a very diversified Why can't you just have the baby and I'll help you out sometimes, you know what I mean? Like Better said, it's called babysitters, hon It's called babysitters Club, And there was a whole TV show about it. Google all right, Naomi, are you ready? Yeah? It go off? All right. I don't think so, honey. Their time starts now, Okay, I don't think so, honey. The birds that sing at night.

There is a tree close to my girlfriend's house, and I have deduced that one of these tiny little birds lives in that tree. These birds are very accomplished mimics. They have a full repertoire of car alarms sounds here all day and they're they're there. They're rehearsing for I'm assuming a mate, oh night long, from four in the morning maybe until eight. And this used to only be happening in the spring. You can give them a pass for the spring. Their time. They're trying to find a partner.

I get it. If you're singing all night, six months out of the year. I have a huge problem with that is very shrill. It's all the different car alarms in the neighborhood. We've all heard him. You know him. You hate them the birds to sing at night. I don't think so. Honey. First, I'm sorry, I have I have What if you were that horny? Like, what if you were so I've been that horny. I'm not a maybe you were screaming around. Well, the birds there, there are,

they're rehearsing there. Let me let me tell you they're actually they're actually artists. And number one, you are Actually there are no different every night, six months out of the year. They belong in Vegas, not outside of Naomi's girlfriend's house. No, I've had enough. I've had enough. I think the issue is actually goes back to the first

thing that we talked about. It's like, we need more queer representation, and you are you saying this perfect the bird is que Well, if it's outside, if it's if it's singing outside of your window and echo park I would say, he just needs to perform like it's in his body. Yeah, I mean, maybe I am being a bit queer phobic. It's quear. For the birds to know the car alarm and for you to shout them down in such a way is in word of queer phobic,

speaking of speaking of singing and vocalizing. When Katie came to my Christmas show, she said something that shook me to my absolute core. And it's something that came for me and I know what it is. Believe have perfect pitch. Okay, I'll say this. There were a few episodes that I've listened to back to back were you were singing the song that you were referencing exactly in the key than it is in So I have to think as a person who has this affliction, this disease, it's like disease.

It's very hard. It's really hard to have to have perfect pitch. It's really hard. So I listened to those two episodes and I thought that you had perfect pitch. I I don't. I think you have very good relative pitch because I know I don't have perfect pitch. And you know who constantly yells at me about quote unquote changing the keys is Melan Yang. I'm not changing the keys, ef you do it all this time. I do not

roll the tape, roll the tape roll the tape. You could sing a see like if you if you don't, yeah, okay you can't. You're pretty close. Yeah, you're pretty close. Dammy singing a. Katie just played I just roll rule the tape. Okay, play baby? Yeah? Finished the aft in a quick local box guy. Yeah no, but the grew note is a yeah, which is different. That's the five of A. So you're doing amazing race when you know the key. I hear everything in soulf edge. Oh my god, yeah,

what is it? God? I used to think that soul fedge was just the note. I was like, dough is just another word for see. Well, that's what you're moving it around, and I'm like, that's not dough. Actually no, no. Well, as we sort of tumble into musical talk, we will tell all the readers out there that if you haven't streamed Muna's new album Muna, you're an absolute fool flop. It's ridiculous that you're even listening to this. It's like, are you you have to listen to Luna literally right now, um,

best band in the universe, our faves. We literally have looked forward to this for such a long time. We love you, love you so much. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you so freaking much. We talked about the Muppets. We established who has perfect pitch and who has relative pitch. We established so much. We talked to musical theater as a young guns. We went into it. We got through it. We fucking baby friendship in ordered it,

fucked it. We've talked about friendship. Yeah, we got pretty deep. We got pretty We got a perfect episode. I would say a perfect episode. And we end every episode where the song on the kind of girl think, Wow, the chicks, it's giving the chicks. It's the teen them. Oh end of the month. I'm jealous. I told them hang out soon. I know. We really we really literally a yeah, my readers,