"Gizmos n' Gadgets" (w/ Jacqueline Novak)

in a given day, and then you're fucking zoon. I will say this. I've we were just talking to hPG about this before you came in. Um, I've never in my life experienced people just being like, yeah, it's cool, you're twenty five minutes later, and like to like wild, like it's normal to be twenty five minutes late. If I'm three minutes later in New York, I'm having a

panic attack, full fledged cannot breathe on the shore. Also, I don't exactly know how parking validation as a concept works as a concept, what like, what do you do? What's the transaction? How does that happen? And also it takes time. It takes time. Also, Um, it's officially the

war of the hot producers. It's true. We have such an amazing experience with our stunning producer Brett over in Los Angeles, so hot producer Joe get a little jealous that we were giving so much attention to hot producer that it contain jealousy. So you know, guys, y'all just boys, girls and bes way in like like whose side are

you on? Well? And now you've heard both of their voices, both their luscious voices, and you know, Joe received so many compliments on his luscious tambo from Tera Able from the New York, from ne York Magazine with that um observation. But you know, Brett, that's a good voice. That's kind of good voy spread you guys, you guys brown the mic, he was wonderful. They're both taken men, So don't get too excited. Both spoken for. We have such a good

guest today. She okay, I'm just gonna go. I'm gonna list the credits because I've been a fan since day motherfucking one from birth from her. Actually literally I took today to refamiliarize myself with all the worlds, and it was like taking a beautiful I don't want to say the name j N Bath, j N Bath, j N Bath, for which I was happy for the bubbles, for the bubbles. Here we go her fantastic album, quality notions. It's a classic, truly a classic. And I don't mean to say that

as like a way of aging it. It's just truly like people will study it, you know what I'm saying. I also want to talk to her about it because she has similar pet peeves to me regarding food. I want to pizza. Just the works, okay. And then of course she has her book How Do We Be in Public? So so wonderful and um. She is going to headline Punchline in Philly July fit through seventh, and then we're gonna talk. She wants to talk about the other dates.

We're gonna talk dates, she said, So we're gonna talk about dates in New York. She's gonna be an Edinburgh. It's Philly dates, the whole deal. She's on a water as Britney Spears has and please welcome to the show. Jacqueline Novack, Oh my god, that was the tension building thrill. It's a positive absolutely. I mean, like most it's a stress. Oh my gosh. Wow. And I was giggling a little like I felt myself like like I couldn't resist making like a little bit of sound. And I love that.

I love when the when the podcast guest makes a little cameo with a giggle. Do you think it's like a coy insistence and attention or I don't know, Like I feel like it's a toe in the water. I thought it was a flirty, flirtatious little hinted a hello. I think it's like, um, I think it's just like a necessary reassertion because otherwise, I mean, it would be more weird if you were just stone cold silent the whole time. Yeah. If I looked really that's what it is.

If I looked really like out of this, Yeah, it was like hello. We've had both people. We've had people who just jumped in from the beginning. Yeah, we're like, this is adic energy. We've had people who sat there stoically and actually would make eye contact with us because they feel like they can't even give the air of being in the room, you mean, until they're introduced, until they're introduced. Fascinating, isn't it. But you existed in the

plane of reality. Thank you. I mean I tried to keep it real for us all you know, well, of course, I mean, artifice can only save us. At the same time, I mean, we love, we love artifice, but fly back and forth, we fly back and forth that there is a function to artifice. But why why let that encroach? It's actually real culture number ninety six. We love artifics. And fourth, absolutely, Jacklyn, Let's talk dates. Yeah, let's talk

dates about dates. Normally I'm like whatever, just like, go to my Twitter or something, which is my full name, or I'm like, which you could figure out somehow around and then I'm like, but now I'm like, or you go to my Instagram because I recently created a link tree. Explain this. Okay, So my instant is j C n O V. I see that first link tree, is like, So, you know, it's a ridiculous claim I made earlier today

it's not true. But I'm gonna say anyway, because I like to throw these things around me throw this around to my boyfriend. I go, I'm actually one of the first people to riff on Lincoln bio. Oh, Lincoln bio. I'm not even sure and I definitely wasn't one, Like I mean I had to, Like honestly, I don't think if they're doing but honestly, like I don't remember seeing a lot of other people doing mine, like all sorts, like let me think, like, um, Lincoln's by like abe

Lincoln's does that? That's great? Listen and Yang Dunaway is a big, big connoisseur of the Lincoln bio. But I've hit a wall, so okay, so talk have you hit a wall? Right? And you're like this this is like me with sneakers, where it's like, okay, like it keeps evolving, right, and you keep pushing it, pushing and pushing it, and then you got to a point where like it's become meaningless and you're like, is the only truth to simply say Lincoln bio like have you have we gone too far?

And you need to come back around? But will But then the terror is will they know that I have gone that journey and that my plane Lincoln bio is like it's like when you're wearing the okay for example, like and I don't mean I know there's some like sucken me like I don't know these basic ones that I had like back in high school that were like throwbacks then you know, they were like and it was

like it's it's basically blue ones that whatever. And now they're like they've like back in and they've like brought up they like those have like what was my vintage pair? Then then they re right, So then I'm like, what do I go buy them again? Now? Like no one.

So sneakers progressively moved like in my high school sort of like preppy sneaker kind of like thing, being into like new balance and being like yeah I get the men's grays like whatever was big, and then as they became more mainstream and like yes, yeah, first of all, like yes, there was a there was a boom, like a saturation. There was a saturation that was like the cherry on Top was like the moment where it was like they support trumpers like a dark cherry moment. To

be everywhere means there's got to be something dark. Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. You have reached that like so so, but then it was like, okay, do I move Like by college, I felt like, well, other people were like just getting around, like the vintage simple sneaker. I was like so tired of it that I was moving into like modern sneakers and like kind of like like you know, like just like what they became like crazy shapes. Yes, but I'm like but no, no, no no, like these people don't. Yeah,

it's like something ahead of your time. It's it's hell, it's hell. And so now basically if you were to if you were to go and do Linky Bye Bye or like Lincoln by Bible or something stupid, people would be like, oh, she's doing that. No, meanwhile, Jack Wine know that was the original. You have been a fan of her since day one. And the truth is, like I literally I think I was maybe like I'm only actually the first person in my apartment just to do it,

and that's why my boyfriend still hasn't done it. So like just like as a community as well, you know, it's always nice to know, you know, give credit, but you also want to like like you also want the privilege of like as an artist, like that you get to talk about your like lover as like just like a character in your life. Yes, so it's kind of like it goes two ways. But anyway, I really enjoy making those claims like you know, like I knew, like

if anyone was around, it would be immediately. Um, well you know, do you feel imprisoned by Gaylyn's send being like the greatest things wrapping? But then she hasn't been able. He's never come out of that, do you know what I'm saying? And that's fine. He holds trying. He's kept that consistent for what five years now? Like what is this? I don't know what every tweet with scent and he's

been doing this since did you never stop? I think it's like, you know, it's like a Christian shaw is a horse thing where it's like, okay, this thing is do you know what I'm talking about? It's like Chris and Christin Shawl to do the spit back into that and seven where it's just screaming Kristin Shawl as a horse and then like and forth. They did a radio loop on this. This is how funked up. It is like there's a cycle of oh, this is funny, this is getting old. I had it, Oh this is funny again,

I hate it. Open this is funny again? Like the beats of amazing, Yeah that is is that what we're touching on? Like with Gabe even like well, what what I was? I actually feel like I feel like I believe he reached something. I feel he actually got something so good that it cannot and we'll not die. The prison I was referring to is our prison, which is like knowing that like I don't it would be like you know, you see, like this is like a cheeseball example.

I feel like like not wanting even not like familiar with like you were like Anna win tours like banks or whatever. Okay, like like a strong choice you like hold onto three years and you're like if I like, do you ever want to make an arbitrary choice? So you have something, So you have something that is like like when you see people who are branded so specifically and you're like, god, damn that person like matail Lanes, like mustache and the backwards hat and the big arms

and the tank top. That's like matail Lane. If anyone ever was going to do that, you'd be like, bitch, I see you're dressing up in matail Lane drag and dada. But is there some sort of cycle with Anna towards Win towards banks, for example, where it's like all their all their lame all their cheek again, is that well?

I think I think I think she's safe because it's like it's the sticking through when it's the sticking through when it's not cool, that makes it like that's a count choice, right, And so I believe Gab is safe. And like, I also like obsessed without brilliant is like some things are pure excellence and that is like someone asked, like I'm be like why do you always do it?

And I like, even though we've never discussed with gave like launched into like like a five sentence like explanation of why I thought it was genius and it's like yes, like and like I just like I don't know, like sometimes people get it right, yeah right, you're gonna die. A ridiculous example of this issue in college, I apparently I and I've forgotten about this. I told my friend like, like who wanted to attract the interests of like this crush she had, like some older guy in the school

or whatever. I was like, I think it's really important to get like a strong and bright accessory. Okay, I was kind of like a red purse. Okay, like just that, like matter what else you were, he's like, oh, there's a red purse girl. Yeah, remember very that sounds like maybe like like did I pull that from Cluel? Not sure you know what? Song literally just came my which would also works like if you want, if you were the girl with the raspberry beret, you'd be unforgettable. Maybe

they even be a prince song about your girls. Well then is it like what do you have? So what do we do? Well? This is the thing I had to go. I have had to go through different iteration, like visual iterations where I feel like different class now I feel like an ass now it's like, oh, different glasses, Like I should have just committed to one frame, one hairstyle for a decade, the prison of branding. No, no, no, I have I have a bird's eye view on this because I do see you each day of my life,

and I feel that these glasses are it. But with your frosted hair, I gotta go back to your frost I love. But you're seeing the elements that you're like it was this one and this one and I together because it's a little bit of like modern new and like a little bit of classic, which I think is

very you. And the reason I came to this is because we were just taking a lot of lifts in l A and Bowen's lift picture is this like very severe photo, like with the with the us there and then with the silver hair, and I was like, oh that was it. Those glasses are incredible, but with these glasses, Um, well okay, now let's okay. So now how does this So let's talk to day Oh yes, simply the country is there. But then I've put together all these shows so I can try to work out this show before

I go to Edinburgh. So it's like I got to um that John Elwide's gonna Chodlie's gonna like we're gonna banter up front because we haven't that I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with He's um celebrated young man. Oh I know the blonde Yeah, yeah, it's the blond one. And and he's gonna we're gonna banter up because we haven't gotten to do this cake shop days. And then he's going to leave the stage where I'm gonna then do my hour basically, and then he's going to come back

on and compliment me at the end. Oh that's wonderful. That's going to be a Union hall that the tickets just went on sale celebrated Face July twenty one. I think they're all in the link tree Jack No of j c enevi Um. And then I'm doing some UCB late night UCB East late nights. But just head to the instagram for all the dates. Okay, but we're going to Philly, We're going there, We're going everywhere has the dates? Can I can I connect with you about my appetizer? Um,

so you discuss I'm a big Wings fan as well. Yes, this is huge for me. You have an amazing joke about like being born early because you think I love it, but uh, and I feel I was also born earlier. It may have been the same reason. But when people, let's talk eat, you know, getting people eat wings and they don't quote use all of the buffalo a k A. They don't suck that thing bone dry exactly until it

could be quote a Gypsy's era. Do I see Gypsy in the same I believe it's because I've since changed it because like like me, like you know, back in two sixteen or whatever, you know, like we're moving quite fast now, and not not to say that this believe Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it was. I think it was, Um, I think it was even for the right. Wait maybe and I'm making that up. No, no no, no, it was gypsy's hearing and like I didn't recognize gypsy as like a thing.

That's I don't think anyone did. Archetypal changed it to pirate winch. That would now watching two years, I can't say winch. But you know that they went down to

the did you hear about this? They went out to the Pirates of the Cribby and then they changed the whole scene where they're like doing the like h auctioning of the women, and they made it so that the women in power, like they changed the whole rime because the the women are like in charge of the auction in some way and it's not like it's not like a prostitute. Then when we enslave men like and have like the great like genocide of the male absolutely which

was which is coming? Um, oh my god, yes, when people when people don't so yeah, I have a real problem with this because first of all, I leave them dry, their their clip art. They're they're jewelry, jewelry for whatever group I feel like and disparaged. It's like, God, County is such an indignity. I mean, like you know, like just because like it is a constant issue, because I do feel and it's just like coming up constantly. Now

I do feel like stand up. You're kind of like getting up like to be cheap, like che's all about it, right, you are kind of like getting up in the bar and speaking to the people, right, so like if you're too um like you kind of I sometimes feel like you've got to move the people along because the joking quality notions that like I've kind of been revisited or everything on quality is currently being revamped, which is why I may like or expanding home, which is why I

may pull it might be the quality notions demos get it out and then like you know what I mean, because to the Wilson or something, because it's kind of like it's like this it's like a medley of me just going up and going through my note and going and I'm like a lot of these are like you did that at a fest a few years ago? Is that what it was? It was just and and but anyway, it's like there's all these things. It's just it's just tough to stand up because you're like you're like trying

to communicate. So in that on that album, I have this same where I'm like I've been doing it, like I was doing a version of it this weekend in context, which is like, you know, oh what a bummer, like that my boyfriend is. I mean, I don't say oh what a bummer, but I mean I guess I opened on Oh what a hummer. I'm like, you know, I have my things about the shame of being a heterosexual

woman in the same age. And then I'm like, and my boyfriend, like he's a heterosexual male and like I don't think he's like ever at sex with a dude, and I'm like humiliated for him, and it's that kind of thing, right, And then I'm like and like some of the audiences in front of like are like oh,

like you know, like shocked and like whatever. And so then I'm like nudging them along by being like, no, well, like, don't you see like it's obviously like really manly for a man to like people take down like a lion, a lion not coming from me, a flower. Like it's basically I'm like, it's fruity to like women like girls whatever. So I'm utilizing obviously like sort of like I'm kind of like I'm going like, no, you're a fruit utilizing

like the language, the language which is now questionable. But I will say this, I listened to it and I didn't think a second thing about it. I said that joke was like extremely smart and like the language I got right right, But also I can understand other people being like, but you're still the word is here, and because this language is here, I don't think so yeah honey, um, but yeah, I guess because I'm like I feel like

it nudges them. I feel like it's not just the confused, because then what happens is like the people that are like, huh, why would you like your boyfriend? You know, get it?

And then like I say that and they like laugh despite themselves and like go home ever so slightly changed, and so I'm like, it's not my most involved version of what I was going to say about like like you know whatever that amongst you know, but it's like kind of like but I also like, maybe like who am I serving if I'm only if I'm not nudging alot, I know it sounds very self whatever because that is something I think about a lot, like oftentimes even with

this podcast. It's just like like because we're a doing like quote unquote like cultural takedowns, and I'm like, Okay, who are we being too hard on? Who are we

like talking about? Maybe not the right way because especially like with gay men, like there is this like proclivity I think because the way we've been socialized to kind of like talk about women like we own them and also like its relationship that's like both loved and absolutely and I think it's with women towards gay men and like really every kind of group towards each other, Like the way that you talk about each other like in general is in general terms, it's like obviously like if

you went really down the road with it, it's all proble. Yeah, but how much do we care? And at which point do we start caring? Sure? I think, Jacqueline, I think you escape all of this because I remember, because you are the best no no, no, because you always I mean, you're part of your trademark is that you always have this layer of awareness on top of what you're saying, because remember this matter. I think Matt and I saw you after fifty first Jokes a few years ago, where

I think you like you. You you went out, you went off on your thing about on a joke about pizza probably probably, but then but then you broke out of it at a certain point and you were like okay, and like and I think something happened. Do you remember this?

Something something happened. And then you broke out of that and you were like, all right, whatever, Like I'm like, I'm riffing on pizza, but like I'm not gonna come up here and do a fucking like Mark Norman thing, you know, like I think, oh my god, that's so funny. It was like it got such a good response. I mean when you were shooting on Mark Norman and he

was there, he was there here. Yeah. I was like, I was like, right, because I'm feeling the I'm feeling the anxiety of like frustration at like Mark presenting like this pollished like I'm just like, you know, I'm constantly suffering at my own way and actually talked like I literally like everything, you know, I just see like the opposite of what I do, and I'm like, that's what I should should have done. Of course that's not you know, you gotta be you and you gotta like find your

way and whatever. But in the moment you think, yes, this is what yeah, yeah, yeah, I like sorry, like because I'm like, you know, like there's always one person that becomes the face of your anxiety of the evening. Yes, like it could be someone else on the show that like you feel like times, but like it's often then more than not even And I never seen me and they've never seen me do good. You know those people that you just memorize as having never seen you do.

I have in my head a file cabinets of every time everyone has seen me before, and whenever anyone is like oh hey, like in the continent, I'm like, no, they never saw me. They don't even know that this is not a real interaction. Oh my god, it's so I haven't I'm very bad, But I have the people who I care. It's not even people that you've bombed in front of. Like I have this anxiety and it's so funny because I'm I'm opening for him this weekend.

But with John, like I have this inferiority complex with John Early that has like followed me for years and years, and like he's always been so supported and so great and he's seen me do well. It shows and like

I don't feel like I have to prove anything. But it's also like, oh, but it's John, Like he's I think a lot of gay men have that with gay comics have that with him because he he really is the first one to really embrace all this special specific shit about him and like, really he was doing gay comedy. Was he really got away with it in a way that it's like, oh my god, he's doing it because

of the way we're socialized. Doing it means like maybe he's the only one that ken and that does get you a little bit in yea, but obviously that's not true. In the last couple of years, it's like really broke open to everybody, and I think, like truly, just him succeeding is just it's so much better Rule number seventy eight of culture all ties in the moat. But anyway, to go back to the first jokes, thing like you always have the warders, I think you are you escape

that sort of whatever questionable language. I mean, right, well, who cares? Well, that's the thing. There's a wink, there's a wink. There's always good to the not the cheap seats, right right, the cheap seats. I don't know, it's always, but there is a thing. It's like, you know, you're doing comedy and you should be able to get up there and be messy because you're the comedy, Like you're the jester and you're supposed to be the one who's

a mess in front of the king. But now it's just like the king being like write down everything that justice the Potentially it's hard. It is a weird position to be in. Yeah, no, and yeah, and like yeah, getting is like purpose, like I know, like I can like sitting here and like launched in like so typical like my anxieties of the day, Like why couldn't I keep it locked down? You know what I mean? I mean I asked about chicken wings. I want my experience

with the wings, all right. But there was like a new appetizer thing that no one ever likes that I felt like maybe I should share it now because like this is my only chance. Oh it's just I don't think it's on like any anywhere because like no one ever likes this, but like I think it's so funny, which was just like a thing which is one of my other appetizer issues. It could be on there. I

don't even remember. But it's like I hate when there's two there a couple of things, okay, but I hate when um so like me and my friend are like sharing, don't worry, I'm not doing my my other nachurals bit You're like, yeah you do, She's going to do whatever you're one, you know or whatever, like about like and that's also like a version on quality otions, right version artist sorry, different naches issue, which is let's say I'm

meeting nachos, me and my friends sharing it is the appetizer. Okay, there's like it's like down to mostly the end and kind of soggy, and it's just like the remains okay, but like I'm still working on it, right, And they

come and they're ready. They come by with our burgers and they think that automatically like surely because the entrees here I've forgotten all about, Like I no longer interested these because of course, like I recognized as a full burger and fries or whatever, and does me okay, put

them down, but don't take that away. And just because it looks like soggy like to you, it's like they were there for me when you weren't, and when and when the entree was like and I saw them age like you know what I mean, Like I saw them fresh, and I saw them like they took me here as I ate them. Yeah. I went out to dinner with Sydney Washington yesterday and there was like and those three little mommies away and I was like, I don't think so, No, those are for us, Like they're the same family of

the other ones. Like I ate them. I will eat them all. They'll all end up in the same place. That's why they belong. You know, it's hysterical. This will this will free you about about if you ever have hesitation about taking the last whatever, like the last yeah, you know, never cookie is or something. Okay, so you're already free. But it's like it's like the last cookie is no different than the first. Quak, Hey you took seven before, Like I mean, do you know what I'm saying?

I think? And also like it's about who wants it the most at the point I really don't believe in like, well I've had the most, I've had the second most, I've had the least. It's like I always ask him, like who wants that last? There? Yeah, but the difference is there's an existential difference in that last cook You're right, I'm refusing context, Like it's kind of like there's a purism that's false to what I'm saying, but like it sometimes needs to be acknowledged because like I'm like, yeah,

but you had no qualms three cookies ago. It maybe I stand by. Maybe I actually coming around. I think you always just gotta ask you always, and then if they say no, we don't mind, that is on them and that they should go to their therapist about it. Absolutely there is Okay, can we just quickly revisit the wings thing? Because I am I am on the other side of this to say no, I just discard the bones, even if there's ship left over. But you mean the

thing you order that's delicious. Well, here's the thing like I'm putting. I'm putting this in my mouth and there's some weirdness. There's something inedible there. And so the marrow the bone, well, you don't eat the bone, but leave the bone behind. I know the fact that's a tiny piece of jewelry. It's like it's like, I'm not okay, let's say visit the visit the bit. It's all in the text. This is what is key. Okay, what you're saying, you're saying, like the gristle or the like, it's just

bone marrow, y'all. It's even girls. I'm not saying. I'm saying the bone, the literal bone gets in my way when it's in my mouth, and my body just rejects, and I'm like, no, I don't want this anymore. And I can understand that because there is then more meat and front of you that is more easy. That is one of my critiques of the of the heterosexual mail. Okay, this is what There's two issues in here, and this is when I get into the wing. Okay, it's one I don't want to see you, Okay, not you guys,

my potential lover. Okay, I don't want to see him, not to go into a bit, but you know you forced it, forced it. I want someone who gets into the corners or the flavors. I don't want someone who feels little carnage. It runs the other way. Get into the corner with it. Anyway. That's that's my bit language. Okay. But there's that piece and then and then there's one other thing you said. I was dying to respond to um,

it gets in my way. It's it's um, it's in edible, the grizzle, the marrow, it's the mouth feel is off, Like there's in front of me that I can the other me being in front of you that you can move on. Yes, that's the other piece. So the heterosexual males is another issue. But this is something I just thought about the long time because these guys that claim they can't like they can't do monogamy, okay, because they

love can I say pussy, say proud? Guarantee? I was doing it like a podcast and something and like where they're like, can you like try to keep it friendly and like for some reason, never never hurt more my life. It was like I was like psychotic. I never asked that question because then it's in their head and then you will say ye, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Would you like, you know, would you like some nose with your soup? You know, you like, don't talk about the nose, don't

talk about the nose. Would you like some nose with your soup? It's like, I don't know, it's some kind of like like old Jewish joke or something. Yes, of course, wait so they love oh yeah right, And so they're like, I love pussy so much, okay, like that, I like can't be tied down with one like and I'm like, excuse me, okay. And it's similar to not finishing the wing. Okay. It's like, no, you've never actually had a pussy in full. You've like basically the only the only thing you think

is hot is novelty. And it's like, wow, that's gonna like so I see it as similar to the wing. It's like someone that's like, I love Sundays. I live Sundays. That's why I need ten Sundays. Okay, time for another Sunday. And you see him and he's like he takes a

cherry off the top and like eats it. Sorry to reference cherries on the top again, Okay, I can't do it organically, Okay, just like take a fight of the thing with a little bit of like like like with the whipped cream again, and then like time for the next Sunday because I love Sundays. And you're like, you never you've never gotten into the messy, goopy slop. If you it's rule of culture number six. If you haven't eaten stop, you have not eaten Sunday. You're so right.

It's food is so telling, like like a guy, like when you hook up with the guy once and then they were like goodbye. I don't understand. They get to act like they're these they're more sexually, they have a greater sex drive than that's it's unfair and it's like no, no, no, but you only like the only thing like look, it's challenging. We all find novelty attractive and it's like it's always

fun to like. But I've been thinking that's like it's like like through the Through the Ages, like I read in college is like book four Married Couples, like with the because I'm like, if I'm gonna want to be married or something like I want to be in a monograaus, can you keep it alive in marriage or whatever? Like I read it like an advance because I needed to think about, like whether I was going to pursume an

augamy because it was worried. And it's like it's like, surely there is more in this world that is hot, right than only than than not only just crossing boundaries in general, because you could do there's a number of boundaries, right, like with a person, you could go deeper and deeper, like literally just the first one like that. The only thing that's taught is like is like stepping over Hey, oh my god, we're friends. No, we're not. Like that's

the only thing. Like we have to do better. We have to try, like we have to have a better palette for like for like sex. Okay, great, So then I mean, at what point does someone just eat every single like yeah, when every little piece of gristle mare at the end of the line, Oh it's too much. What's the end of the line sexually? Like you feel completely You're right, right. I think it's like it must be like what is it? It's just what it is

with my ex, I can say that. That's like when you have a medical issue and you tell your partner, can you look at this? And it may not be on like your yes, that's when you're like you're past it or you're there. That's when you know you know you're there, You're like okay, like potentially this is like a life situation because I check out the little things

on my body that even I can't see. Okay maybe, And that's why I reject kind of sometimes that like like keep you know, like keep the door closed and you pee. I'm like, no, but can we find it? Can't we find like a post like postmodern thing? Yeah, like way towards hotness, Like I don't want it to just be like keep the mystery alive like it when you first met, like that seems or if you or if the mystery, if if the mystery being alive defeats this like sexiness, maybe that's not the true exactly. We

should dig deeper. We should dig deeper. And you've already answered my question, Jacqueline, because as soon as you're done eating every single thing off that bone, it becomes a pirate wench is earring when you make it something beautiful, Oh my god, The Lovely Bones. What a vicious book? Can you believe the first chapter? I didn't read it. I was too scared. Don't read it. Don't read it. It's hilarious, it's great. I mean I read it, you know,

like when it came out or something. The Lovely Bones refer to like as I recall it, like a lovely I mean it was a metaphor of like the lovely Bones of like grief that like in the in the in the grief and in the absence of there's really a bag of bones in the book Oh God, there is all right, right a metaphor the literal and like the things that come out of it from this raw space of grief, the things in the relationships that come out of like Handley or whatever, and like that's something

like that. Did you see the movie Mark Wilberg, Mark Wahlberg, Rachel Vice. I believes the young daughter and then Stanley Tucci and dominated no, he's the he's the killer. And he got nominated for an Oscar for that, and I'm like a little bit, I don't think so, honey, Yeah, pedophile and you get an Oscar on It's like, yeah, anything brave, we'll get an Oscar nomination. Like I had a camera on me while I was dressed as a pedophile talking creepy, and it's an Oscar nomination. It's like,

did you really get in there? Like here's that move or is it a show? There's something that just came out with with Laura dern oh the tail right, that the thing and it's like they was really article about how they shot it. So there's like a young girl and her like sexual you know, abuse or whatever. I did a proper relationship something and it's like they were like a therapist was on set, the girl was never

basically the child actor was never. This is like how it was described actually like not to be like crasped by thought was kind of funny. Like they're like like, so you know, it's based on the director or someone. It's based on their like a actual story of like a relationship with someone like a coach or something. And that was that they like kind of thought was normal at the time and like looking back like kind of

like unpacked it whatever. So this movie is like I think it's like the adult self and she like and then memories and like girl self and having and they wanted to actually have these scenes of like the sexual like acts going on in some form like see it like like you gotta see it, like it's ugly and like you gotta stop like making it like a subtle like brave oscar thing that you don't see anything. It's just like a guy like like lurking in a corner

and you're like brave. Yeah, and also making rape a movie thing and making making like rape for movies. Yeah. Yeah,

So it's like it's like let's let's do it. Let's like but let's not make it and like make a traumatizing experience for the actor, but it sounds so that for example, instead of leving or lay on a bed like on her back, okay, like she's I was really like the filmmaking of it, and like she's like standing against the wall that's made up to look like a bed, and then her hair is glued like against the wall bed and then like you know, the direction never has

anything to do with it, Uh, the male actor and I can't remember who is right now, but like the star and I just forgot who was like never on set with the girl you know, like okay, like like like she's never acting the scene. Oh wow, that's crazy. So the directors like and then the directors like to get the shots that was totally like you just fell off your horse, okay whatever, like like Grandma took gave

you a piece of candy. And it's like kind of like disturbing in another way because it's like is that is that It's like is there something still not inappropriate? Because I right, but I think it's almost like to then use the imagery that you purposely got a different way to mean a different thing has like a kind of weird quality. It's like later when you're like when you've grown up. But like she apparently she did read the script and like, yeah, that's what I'm saying because

I was. But but if they were like not being honest with her on set, she I wonder if she's gonna like watch it back later and be like, oh, I don't and be like look at her seeing herself reacting to the situation and feel weird about it because it wasn't her natural. It's almost like, oh, oh, look at you acting like how like it's like, no, that was me acting like It's like you didn't get to choose your own shot anyway, So you can never be

really stand behind it. You can never truly staying behind the performance, right, And you're like and you're almost like, I would never play like like maybe later you're like, I would never play like, you know, a face of trusting confusion like that, And then you it's like film is the director's medium. Medium. It sounds I don't know, that's a hard one. It sounds like, yeah, it's like a hollowed out portrayal in a way. But also I understand wanting to like make sure, yeah, just protecting and

just making sure everyone is okay. I think it is the right choice, and like I'm coming at it kind of hard. No, no, no, but it's bizarre, it's fascinating. Yeah, no, it's very it's it's a little crazy. Can I ask a question? Did we get to the Lovely Bones by talking about chicken bones? Yes? We did that. Is I fly where you take me? Yeah? I know where you

take me? High? We fly where you take a potential potential title of where, she says when she gets on the plane, she you know when you walk in and like you see the flight attendance, you just make sure you go in and check in the cock. But hey, just sing know, man, I fly awhere, you take me whatever? You're going to a flight when they know that they could be creative with it, you know, I find it's a smoother ride. Absolutely. You want to take a dip

here and there? You want to go fourteen thousand instead of thirteen honey. I was like, I'm still here, I'm still flatter. My god, have you ever had any horrific turbulence? I had a bad one that was like we dropped two feet and it was screened to laugh, But oh my god, I'm waiting for that day to happen, and I will be scared too. I can't. I'm furious that we have extended like the thing we do. Everyone was screaming, think they were going to die. It wasn't It's not

as like good. There was just one It was like one comical moment. Okay, that felt like it probably felt like in all honestly, you're not expecting me feel this as why like like you know, like Pirates of the Caribbean, right, a little like dips again and there's like a little

stomach drop. It's not crazy, right. It wasn't like really long, but it was like it was like this, it was like what you and everyone like and for like there's something meetic to me, like because everyone yeah, and then like one person kind of like stumbled and fell on their knees in the and there was a lot of turbulence after that. But that was the one dip. And then I was like tweeting it Jip I think it was.

I was like tweeting at Jip Blue like from the plane, like and then like and then there was like a thing like we're gonna we're gonna land. Oh wait, it's too choppy to land like we're going back up, and then like fuel as low, so we're gonna go again,

We're gonna get another We're gonna try again. And it was like I like turned on the little like TV thing was like coming in and out like like I hadn't watched any content like quickly like focused on it really intently and like and like it was, and then getting off the plane like I wanted deats like yeah, how exactly went down? You know, and like I never got a response from Blue was very weird. I see

them respond to other people's stuff. Oh wow. Honestly, maybe they saw that you were a comedian and didn't want you to them honestly, Wait, no, I don't want to hear from the from the from the like pilot, I about exactly what specifically is going on, Like just you have fans that we're going to give it another fuel as I never want to hear the fuel that's the worst thing you can hear. We're gonna try again. What if we feel like it's like it's like it's like

options of decrease. Well, here's my big question. Okay, I'm sorry, I'm like I'm like soaring, I'm not having eaten anything today, and wait, I had lunch. I forgot I had lunch too, and I fell asleep right after and it was so bad. There's just chicken and slop sitting in my stomach because I ate the slap. I follow the rules, So what's the big question? But I'm like, I'm like soaring and so like I feel like people are gonna let them talk. No, no, this is we we concede to our guests. So so

you were going to impose a big question? Oh yeah, are you ready? So the big question? This is what comes to mind every time there's like a lot of turbulence, okay, And I'm there's always some noises with I believe landing gear should stay open and down the whole time. Why are we like pressing button on the questionable? Similar to like I know this is how it works. Like and I've never gone skydiving, okay, like don't really plan to, but like the whole release of the shoot like terrifies me.

Like gizmos and gadgets and mechanical release always seem like potential for failure. So like if you could hold the parachute closed like just like a bunched up fabric and then like suddenly like let it go. Okay, that would feel a lot safer to me. You would rather take it into your own hands than have yes, because like like I can't think of aecing metaphor, but it's like, yeah,

give over. Why give over something your life to something that's like that's basically like at the like at the mechanical level of like a zipper or spring or like those kinds of things are like always like what breaks, there's a margin, there's a margin forever and all of this. I'm gonna put out a gas failure that if we put it in everyone's hands, like if we sent them flying out of the planes with the ball of like umbrella in their hand, I bet we'd have more deaths.

I'm gonna think. So I went. I did it when I was eighteen years old and young and dumb and not hesitate at the door. Here's the thing, here's the thing you Yeah, you got to do tandem. And so when I was eighteen years old, like all my high school friends like, let's do it to celebrate graduation. I was like, okay, and so we did it. And basically the rule is you signed like your life away like, literally, you sign like a book that says like if you die, can't sue babe, And so I signed on the line.

I was like, yeah, we're all doing it. Meanwhile I get in the plane. I quickly remember I have a fear of flying. So then we're up in the air feet and they say like once you get in the plane itself, there is no turning back. They can't. They can't, you can't stay in the plane. And did you know that, because yeah, yeah, baby, um no, But what happens is the plane drops. The plane doesn't land back at that base, plane land somewhere else, and it's like a rotating thing

of planes. I think it's like a different plane, like you'd be miles away. But I bet some people would take the like fear would be like, yeah, take me to Vermont right right, just like anywhere you want to go. And I'm sure if you really want to do it, they couldn't throw you out of the plane. But anyway, you did sign, So what what was it like? Everything? Here's here's what they terrified you. You sit there and

you're you're on tandem. So the guy they had me with, I actually have it on video and if I ever do I want to add a show someday, like show the video because it's also funny because I'm like eighteen years old and like, hey, my name is Matt. So dark, so dark. It's so dark and triggering and and you're

like it's just this. Yeah, it was bad. So the guy they the guy they chose to put on my back was this guy with like spiky hair, like comically spiky, like like cartoon from Nickelodeon, Spikey that's like that, Oh my god. So he's on back. I think his name

was something insane like fucking Trask. I don't know, um, but he's on he's on my back, and like what they do is all my friends went, and then I was going, and then my friend was going behind me, so it couldn't be this thing of like they all went, and I was like, oh, something happened where I had to stay. So at that point I was like, oh

my god, we have to go. What they do is they sit you on the ledge of the plane with your legs dangling, feeling the air, and then you go one rap forward to rap forward, and then on three you were supposed to front flip out of the plane and then throw your arms and legs back and like sane like, so you do like a front flip like it's some fucking transporter ship, Jason, stayth of nonsense. Now you're supposed to be a special effects wizards. How do

you know you're coming out of the roll? What I mean? I don't know. Also, remember there was a guy in my back, so I trusted him, all right, and he will help you help and he'll scream like legs out if like that to the wind, and you're just like, so you do it. And Trask was the one who pulled the ship. Yes, he eventually pulled the shoot. But and we'll call him Trash. He's officially trash. We flip out. I watched the video later. I did not successfully flip.

I merely flopped out, like I see myself like trying. But you also see like my mouth fem like no. No, I got the video of it too, because I had to pay for the video, Like I was like, if I'm gonna do this, I want, you know, video evidence. So I do a front flip out do it and for the first like fifteen seconds, you feel that free fall like you were talking the Pirates of the Yes, that but then the rest of it is I would I would say it was similar to when you stick

your hand out of a car on the highway. It's like that air on your arms. That's what it feels like. The whole rest. Yes, very what it looks like when you see wind tunnels, exact exactly, and so like I'm on your whole body and yes, and so you do see a moment because it's like a minute and a half where you're in free fall and you the video catches me like having listened for a time of like, oh my god, I can't believe I'm doing this. I'm trusting it, and guess what if I'm going to die,

it is already decided. So then I'm like, I'm like free in the moment and then they pull he pulls, the shoot it pulls. And what they don't tell you what's unclear about the skydiving experience, not even that it's that you float down from three thousand feet for ten minutes. So that's the part that fox me up, Like the free fall was fine, but it's not this thing where they pull it and then seconds later you're on the ground.

It's ten minutes of just you in the harness with the stranger on your back and just this piece of fabric above you and literally thousands of feet under you. And that is what people don't realize is that is the part that's the shoot has been pulled. It actually where the terror begins in ten minutes. And then he started to do this thing where he started to like put bank on the rope so that we would do like a flipping motion. Why because that's what people do.

And he was like, yeah, right, I got my two fifty out of him, so and it was like it was expensive too much. So like then I start to get really violently struck, like I know myself get nauseous because I realized the gravity of the situation, like literally not no pun intended, but like I'm like, oh my god, we're now floating down. It's going to be ten minutes of this and he's spinning it. And I started to get really nauseous. I hadn't eaten that day because I

was too nervous. I should have known, like I always need to go on roller coasters on a full stomach or else I get nauseous. I start to dry into my own shirts, spitting into my T shirt and really having a hard time floating down ten thousand feet, spitting, coughing, sputtering into my shirt. Trash is like, oh you okay, dude. Honestly, I was like, I don't don't think you canswer in your bro voice. I was like, yeah, dude, I don't think you should spin. I don't think we should talk either.

And I'm like, I think I'm gonna I'm throwing up into my shirt. The contents of my driving his hell, oh it was horrible, and I did it the whole way down. And then like the video was off you by this point because they can't like floorce you. So like the last thing you see him pull the him pull the shoot. Then there's off camera ten minutes and be like yeah yeah, into my shirt. And then the next shot is just us landing and me landing, and the guy with the video camera goes, hey, it's Matt,

what do you think one of many? And I just go with like days, look in my eye like I've been punched in the face. I just give like a lazy thumbs up and it ends on my face. I can't believe I've never shown you this. I have to show you. I think you have to post because it was such an insane experience, and I said, I said, never again. But this is the part of the story that is and this comes back to what you were saying. My other friend, Kevin, did not have a negative experience.

He loved it so much so that he went again. He wanted to do because if you go three times then you don't have to go handon, then you can go by yourself. So he was and only after three times. I mean, do you want to swim with someone on your back? So then he goes, get this, He goes a second time, he has the experience, he does it. They land, the guy goes to him that was on his back. He goes. Obviously there was no time to

tell you this. I didn't want to tell you while we were in made air, but we had to go to the backup shoot the first shoot, Paul, Oh my god, And that happens not uncommonly, Okay, it happens to my friend, Okay, right, and I couldn't have a friend, No, my close friend Kevin from from high school. I'm really disturbed, Okay, because here's the thing. It's like, why are they betting on two okay, when when one can go then certainly the second one can, So why are we doing it at all?

It's not safe and it's three even enough. Well here's the thing. It's like then you really sit down and realize, oh, one place where not supposed to be midair? Midair. You're not supposed to be up there. You're not supposed to be in midair. You're not supposed to be deep diving

in the sea. I'm sorry, truly truly scuba diving like like it's even worse, Oh my god, like with the air tanks, like like there, what a bad idea to choose to like have your breathing rely on a tank of air and like a series of gizmos and gadgets. Once again, gizmas gagets might be the title of It's not no no like. I mean, first of all, I have you ever seen like one of the great one of the finest films and frankly like pieces of American drama, Like I think it could have been staged on on

the stage open water Water, open Water. I saw the trailer and I was like, I can't get it, and I think open Water because it's so simple. I like, I always like laugh about the idea of like really like a really stripped down theatrical production, like you know what I mean, like just like like like two stools, like even though they're like like whatever, like but it's like like hinter style maybe like the best. But I think it is like amazing. You can see it? Have you? Do?

You know? Open Water? Open Water is the story of a couple that goes on like a vacation trip on their honeymoon or something, and they go and they come up and the boat has had to leave because of like some issue or something, and they forgot them. They didn't got them, like there's like a clerical error or something on the boat. Again, you don't sign your life away? Yeah, yeah, and the boats like wet clipboard right you? Right? Like how many like life vest you took with you? Oh

my god? Why isn't this automated? So they are out in open water and they eventually Stark starts to circle them and spoiler alertly when did this come out? Spoiler his faces it all, But I'm like, no, no, don't tell him. I won't talk because I won't tell you what happens. But like, what happened to you? What happened to you? When? When did this come out. I'm gonna

say this is nine years ago. Yeah right, yeah, yeah, at least because I feel like and I actually I showed up Broken Water to which which is not even made by the same people. It's one of those like hey, I'm going to know. Yeah, it's like just like for the love of the game, you know, like they're like we're making an open water. Two is like its own like kind of one or two is like a group of people and the premise is like they're on this yacht and they decided to go swimming outside of the boat.

They let the ladder down, they screw up, like the ladder is like up, like so they're stuck outside their own like fancy boat in the in the middle of the water, like pitifully like trying to like move up at the slot like the side of their boat. I love Oh my god, that's actually I love it. It's like there's like a dramatic kind of like simple horror. Yes, it's right there. That should have been the first. That's

a comment. That's comments. It is a comment. Uh, And there's more to it even like you know, like yeah, there's more about like wealth and like status that comes into playing political it's not. It's although it doesn't have the simplicity like the couldn't I don't that could be staged. It's not about just like basic Yeah, I think I'm human being should just not be not even underwater. They

shouldn't be in water. Oh yeah, I believe we should be in the shallow water because imagine if we were primitive, which we once were, we need to be there. But no, no deep diving, no real no, no, not no deep

not even deep diving. But Matt and I were just at Alcatraz a couple of weeks ago, and they we did we did one of the tours where they explained all these attempted escapes, and there's only been one successful escape from Alcatraz where the man like gets out whatever, and then genius plans to get plan together involving like taking flaws or some sort of like a stuff every day for seven years, like going at one bar, going at one bar, and then he escapes through like the

vents or something. Climbs, climbs up the vents to the roof, crosses over the roof, lands, lands among lands, at the shore.

I guess, walks with purpose like he's going somewhere like as if he has the permission right and then and then like they have no way of knowing what the conditions are on the water from the from inside in December, in December and San Francisco waves are crashing, crashing, and he has to basically the Tory basically describes in like like amazing detail his swim from the island to the

shore in San Francisco. But he has to, like but then just the waves are pushing him towards the sea and he's like, okay, Georgey squares my targets that miss

is that? And then the next target is um, okay, get the next another land another, another landmark, what's it called the fucking the fucking military base that's mexical in gate Bridge, just misses every landmark until he basically lands at like right by the Golden gate Bridge, and then he immediately gets taken and then he's hypothermic this and then he's hypothermic washes up, so he wasn't even dead hypothermic, yeah, and then and then they find him like in a

ball and then he was literally that night now brought back to Alcatraz. And so that humaning shouldn't be in water but this is But that was like a fascinating story because they said, like he had literally done this thing that he had worked on for seven years, every single day hatching this genius plan to break out of Alcatraz, and then he gets to the cliff and he was like, oh my god, I don't think I can do this.

I literally don't think this is possible. And he has to make a decision like, am I going to go back and like possibly even die because they shoot me dead right here and I'm trying to get out and I might be a danger to the I didn't know this either. Families that lived on Alcatraz, like the families of guards and the people, so that that was like and they felt very safe there, or do I literally probably died doing this, but I'd rather have that than be in prison. And he decided to go for it

and it didn't work. Go for it? So but do you think there was a god when people go for it? I love people go for it culture number undred and four. It's incredible when people go for it because it's so hard. It's so hard for it. I mean, and he both, you know, he showed grit um like he did the long term right. He was able to do the long term thing and he was able to do the spontaneous like move to not to be Both those guys showed

range and one yeah he showed range. He really, when they make a musical of it, the number on the cliff is going to be amazing. Oh that's like should I go there? No, I don't know, I hear it. Yes, I mean I'm also seeing the light swirling over javert like it'll be like that, like the dive like is done through the lights. Yes, absolutely, you're like amazing, we're thinking in such stagey terms. Yeah, I don't know. I see it as a musical. For some remason, I think

it is Alcatraz the musical at the musical. Um wait, we have to ask you the question that we ask all yes, And that's just shows how crack a lack in this conversation has been that we are getting there nearly an hour into the discussion. But Jacqueline, what was

the culture that made you say culture was for me? Like, could have been something in pop culture you experienced as a young and or like you know a movie that you saw maybe even later in life that was like okay, no, actually this like what what did you say is the pop culture that defines Okay, it's really hard to say, but I mean, and I'm probably not the first person to say this, but I would say a good, big one would probably be Greece to g too, not even

the first. It's it's the fourt anniversary of it's the first Greek timely for me, you know, for me, I mean Greece. You know, Greece is great, but Greece Too is really I mean, it's big for my family, including um, my cousins and and on Thanksgiving, my sister would like usually direct us in a few Greece Too numbers. Um,

We're all just really be fans of it. And I do believe that a large part of my personality is perhaps molded up after Stephanie z anony Um and kind of like so like for me, like I feel like it gave me something to model myself in high school after okay, which was like yeah, like like yeah, like I'm like these are my friends and whatever, but I'm also like independent, you know what I mean, and like I'm not afraid to like, um, like hang with who I want when I want, you know what I mean,

Like give a brief summer. I think a lot of the children don't fair enough, and also like get in there because it holds up because I have to say, I don't know the plot of Greece. I watched once as a child, and I hated it because it wasn't grease one of course, and and like it's like it's lackings are it's you know, like you just have to like let it, like you just have to just just embrace it on its own terms. It's like it's got sort of like there's something like trashy about it, and

it's like wonderful. So it's like, um, a couple of years later, Um, new kids, except except Frenchy is like back. Shea, I guess she's back from she went high school. She So Sandy's cousin Michael Carrington, Um, who's who's like nerdy and has an accident and whatever. Okay, like like a male centrad So okay, shows up and friend, she's like gonna like friend, She's like, I'm gonna show you around the same thing, right, and then um, and Michelle Iver

is already there. Michelle I was a pink lady. It's like senior year. Um, and and there's the other pink ladies and it's like things are on the rocks, but she didn't with with like the T Bird like of her Johnny, okay, like these are kind of the rocks when she's like kind of like over his like macho like nonsense again and like she's like so cool okay, and like she's like dreaming of a cool rider, which is like a wonderful song, which is like I want to see O L R I d R. That's cool, um,

you know. And it's it's like like dances around like the empty stage because there's a theater production that plays

you know, heavily in and like a big talent. Like they're all everyone in the schools like participating, Like even the T Birds are like of course they're all like one because there's like a prize or something and it's like whatever so um so like so Stephanie's and he's like kind of like and Stephanie's only strikes up a friendship with this very nerdy Michael Karrington who's like doing everyone's homework for them, like doing homework for the T Birds,

you know, to get money. Oh yeah, it definitely wants to get money too. Well, this big secret hot is coming, okay. So he's like he's like doing everyone's homework and like getting money, and he's like going, like buysy a beat up motorcycle okay, And because he hears like Stephanie's non me being like I want a rideer that's cool. I want to want more than the boy next door. I want hell, I'm wheels. Just give me that, you know, back motorcycle with a man growing out of the seat.

And then by night or we'll be wrong cool right, Okay, it's incredible. I'm gonna spotify that. It's so good. And and so he likes he's playing piano for the like talent show like whatever. So he hears this and he's like I gotta get cool. So he pays the money. He like fixes up the bike, you know, and he like practices in the field and like falls over, but then he gets pretty good, like where's her helmet? And like one night at the bowling alley, okay, we're they're

all singing, We're gonna scalp tonight. It's incredible, right, and so like and like um hey Johnny, Johnny goo bull that strike and I just might be a night and then like what's going on because the tea birds are there, the ladies are there, and someone comes up like okay, like blows past them and like goes zooming up until like like a car and like and then they start singing, who's that guy on that motor cycle? And then Michael on the thing. What would they say if they knew

it was Michael? Okay? And he's still hid it okay, and so they're like, who's that guy? And then like he comes around and like Stephanie's only like gets on and like rides through the night with him because she

doesn't care who it is. Yeah, he's a cool ride and she kisses him with the helmet still on, like and so it's like you just see like he drops her off and she's like you know that it's really important, and like Michael's like still like tutoring her and like and like but like the way like but there's something about like I honestly it's so cheeseball, but like I was like, yeah, like that's what I'd be, like, like, yes, you can be part of the Pink Ladies but not

want to be owned like property, Like yeah, yeah. So she does this thing where she's like she's like in front of like Johnny, She's like in the bowling reality before let me see how this works. I think this is what happened. Like Johnny's like upset and she's like she's like, she's like, I'm gonna I can kiss whoever the you know, yeah, you never know who I want whatever, like kiss the next guy that walks in here. Oh yeah, and like john like John's like, oh yeah, go for it.

And like if this old man walks in, okay and everyone's like she was like, she walks over and read that moment Michael, like nerdy Michael comes in, she grabs him and was like what and it's like to make a point. Now the great thing but okay, the other thing is Keyan agrees to Okay, just give you one more like like flavor to like get you excited. I mean,

it's all incredible. It opens with it never called back to school, okay, okay, okay, and then you get in there and then they're in class and they're learning um about reproduction and stuff full number. It's like production but yeah, like but just stay into work. Oh my god, Flowers, it's not put your stame into work, but there's stuff like that. Yeah, that was good. They used like real language. Yeah, yeah,

they really do. So it's amazing. And then basically ultimately like so that mystery like unfolds and things come to a head at the big like at the big you know production that night, and there's like danger and risk of death and like, um, but there's the one song that sucks. There's one song, you know, there's sometimes like one time that sucks. Although, what's the song that sucks in regular Greece? Is there one? Wait? I feel like there is. Wait, let me think hopelessly devoted to You You

does not suck. Grease light and it does not suck. Summer Nights does not suck. You're the one that I want doesn't not suck. We Go Together does not suck. I guess one of those songs maybe no, but it's a very strong score. There's one increase too, and like maybe you know, like for me, like the Tango Marine and Rent is not I don't like and I'm like always the comedy, the comedy. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, get me away from the comedy. Yeah, yeah, I don't

get me back to like forget regret. Yeah, I love that Tango Marine, like I feel guilty like not liking it, but like anyway, charades, I just want to put that out there. It's called sharade. It's sad. It's like a dark Knight of the Soul from Michael where he just like you see him moving through the cafeteria getting food and singing like about the charade. That is like it's very it's very not good. It should have changed. It's

like special, So wait is he? Is it the kind of movie where it's like this person would never ever get the attention to these people, but like you're watching it and you're like, but he's so hot, you know, he's he's very beautiful, and like I forget who the actor like is now, Like I can't remember his name because it's just like the movie is real to me,

and I'm like, he's absolutely like a handsome man. But I in my youth, like because I still always felt like I perceived him as like the nerdy cheeseball, So I was like kind of like I was like I saw that he was like aesthetically like whatever, fine, but like I was still like I'm like he's still cheeseball. Into the railed by the romany you buy the presentation of like like I guess, like what is it not?

She's all that, she's all that. Like when they're like, oh yeah her, you're like she's nothing like literally the whole trope and not another team movie, which is a brilliant of just like taking off, Like Okay, then that's really ridiculous. Yeah, that's a good movie. None of there's no change to him. I mean basically like there's no glasses. He may have glasses, but like there's nothing other than

putting on the motorycle's and she is. And the nice thing is that when she's tutoring, when they're tutoring and he's tutoring her, and he's like he's like like she's like into him, and she's like falling for him in the tutoring setting, So it's not like she's only falling for the cool writer. It's like there's like a flirting there, and it's like why are you hanging out with nerds? You know, Like she's into she's into his personhood absolutely there you go and she goes like, there's a catchup

on your burger. Okay, she's got to put burger And I love it. And I feel like that was a part of my personal like can I get a can I get some catchup from my friend's Hamburger? Please? I feel like that it's fed into my heart. And you know the way she said Hamburger was probably just like that and so iconic realizing right now Greece is it's problematic the fact that she comes in and her leather get up at the end and he's like Sandy and then he basically just gets to flip back and dance

sexy with her and then everything's fine. But like, she only earns their respect when she embrace us for like sexuality that like, and she conforms to the male gaze and she fully does. And also she discovers it in one day, which means there's probably got to be some like stuff going on there, Like that's not who she wants to be, that's what you want to her. I

don't think so agreed. I appreciate that it's like, right, it's a latent sexuality for Sandy, like it's always been there, yes, but yes, like the patients having sex with him on the beach that summer, right, were they having sex? Is that up for debt or under? She says, they splashed around in the spool. I mean they showed them like lying there that like they show visual I mean the movie, like, yeah, they do kind of they fade into They definitely discuss

at the least heavy petting. Yeah, but I don't think Sandy, I don't think they were having sex because then he tries to such a boom later and in the car and she's like, oh it figures, it figures into her sort of like prudishness, Sandra. Yeah, no totally, but he's being like he's been like really hideous to her in the car. It is grotesque that now he's like trying

to make a move. But yeah, like it is like what like and it's like looks like I like smoked figurettes in college like to try to be like you better shape up cool and I'm bringing into my own body like like you know, like you it's like, yeah, it's it's an issue. It's an issue. But really no connection to Grease One, for you know, I Love It Too was the thing that like open all the doors, all right, So right in terms of the culture or whatever, like yeah, like Grease Too has to be a huge one.

I mean we embodied it ourselves. We watched it a lot um, you know, but like I would do a lot of back to back. No, I was going to drop into like a different one, but I should do it, like because I was gonna go into like adventures and babysitting mine with Beetle Juice was like a big double feature. Yeah, beetle Juice. That was. And honestly, do you think that that kind of like like form your sense of humor a little bit like that? Possibly, like I do see

like Michael Michael Keaton's Beetle Juice. I'm like, I'm like, that's got to be a comedic influence. And obviously we know why, Okay, I mean, I mean, all right, little Mermaid obviously and Ursula like doing like you can easily obviously see me doingun fortunate souls like around in the basement, you know what I mean. And then like saying, you know, I was scared of her, though, did you have any fear towards her? I loved her. I think I was scared at the same time as like the thrill of

embodying her, like her, like humor of her. There is a thrill just even this moment. Listeners, let us know if you relate to this. But the moment when Ursula poor unfortunate souls like spins around this plume of smoke and says and sings. It's sad but true. There's like there's such like a like a kinesthetic thing about it, which just like moving through I'm like, oh my god, that's mind blowing. She is, she's she's. I was never scared of her. I was always like, oh that, what

is that? And then you find out, Oh, it's based on divine and that's why I find comforting. Like I'm like, it's like, isn't it sort of sweet? Like I was profoundly influenced by hersel like not knowing like what was being, Like the influence that was being like snuck into me. It's kind of like so like I like, yes, like like now I very much appreciated, you know what I mean. It's like a trojan force for John Waters stuff. It's like, oh wow, early it planted the like love and it's

like there's something you're responding to. Like, so, I mean it was unbelievable. If there had been an inspiration for her, I'd be like, how would you create? How would you have? Ye? Like that that would be like genius? Yes, yes, yes, you know. I mean I think it was when she got very big. Yes, that I'm scared of her, but I think I always appreciated poor unfortunate souls. But she's that's it's it's funny now, but like for kids, she's scary. Yeah.

And also I liked that there was like she was like a female villain, yes, like because I think that was like there's a lot of she was that she was a female villain who used her sexuality and malefic that never did that that right, because those those are like right, it's a different kind of like icon like like Ursula was like heavy, right, and like eating like suckling and eating like yeah, those little live like overtly sexual yeah yeah, like like and you know, it's sort

of like feminine. It's kind of like everything that's shameful about femininity and that I feel like it's like I mean, which again makes sense, right, but like it's like like her like um, her tentacles like floating around her like feeding herself, like squeezing the little things and bursting like a little stick or whatever. I never forgot that image. And then the tiny like also like sort of like I mean, were really disturbing it was like the tiny

peor unfortunate souls that were kept in that. Oh yeah, so sat she had the vanity, she had the boudoir or whatever the like and her two like eels. Oh my god, it's like that's true. We we would glad if you want to get the performance going, well, just like flop around you. Imagine if you were like brilliantly like like we really did like the stage work that was necessary for you to be like to be able to move like just by like manipulating your abdominals, you're

completely suited. Like I could do it. I know you could. Like all your moves would like almost like trigger like, so you'd be on something smooth, you make the subtle like wiggles, but you'd like shoot across the stage. Yes, honestly, we had a friend on the show, Amy Joe Jackson, who's played Ursla, and like, yes, and she says that to get into the costume is a procedure, but it's necessary to bring the phone. Absolutely, she she she she bore it. The whole fantasy bore it. Okay, I think

it's time. It might be time. Did I get did I say anything? Did I get? You know, we covered a large swath of let me tell you something, I think that people and so have you stayed in myself? I first stand after greeze To, I think, so yeah, I think I'm never going to turn on you know, like I'm like yeah, like actually yeah, like I do literally wrong that I'm saying, you can't see a Michellefivor performance and not leave being like who the hell is that?

Even in hair Spray? But also she turns out so many great performances, like she'll take quote unquote take a break. But like even the movies that no one really knows about, like this is a movie called Stardust, she's amazing. She plays a witch. Oh no, no, I think I've definitely seen that. It's like a children's high fantasy movie. And there was a movie called White Oleander, which I think more. But she was incredible in that Psycho Um and she was so good in that, and like the typical monster

mom fair but does it well. And then of course you know all her iconic performances. But it really all started with was it grease To, which is our first thing? Or was it Scarface? Do we know Scarface definitely came out before Greece too really you think I can't, like, I denifinitely Greece. You came up because I'm like, to me, it's like I've always been confused a Greece because of

the time period of the thing. And that's gonna like, who's gonna remember like seventy years from now, I'm gonna think it was made in the fifties and or whatever. And that is always they do such a quote unquote good job I feel in evoking the fifties that I'm always like, oh, this is the fifties movie, but it's not fully seven and that is part of it. That's

like part of what's the weird dynamics. Anyway, It's so great when you see something just like Nail, like a period like I'll say right now, like I think the show outside that does it best right now is marvelous. Mrs Maisiel. I don't even know how they accomplished what they accomplished, but that is like it's fun to time like I mean, it's it's crazy. It's fun to think about a period piece that was done like decades ago exactly. Oh, this is a this is like a Victorian likes you know,

it's a nineties Victorian it's hilarious sensibility. Yeah, what was the way we did like period pieces in the nineties, Like what did we think, like, you know, like there's a double refraction. It's like, okay, it's one thing and then another. Anyway, I have have ever seen the Age of Innocence that um, she's incredible and that she's like give that movie so much life and vitality. And I watched it in high school and I was like, I hate this movie. It's boring, and I really don't. I'm not

I'm not a Dawn day Lewis fan. I think he's sort of boring when he's not playing wacko hilarious. But but looking back at that movie, I'm like, that movie was lush. Looky, there's a full shot. I'm a period piece. Honestly, if I felt I had any real talent like that, I would love to. But I know I put on the costumers. Well no, just act like a period like to bring out the like. But like, I do think

there's like a new like look. If I one day director period beast, I will have some like things, which is like we're not automatically doing a British accent just because old timey you know what I mean, And that's so true. We also don't have to like look like our skin males will look better than it would have looked in the eight D. You're not like, well, actually

we do. But you other where it's like there could be a way to be where you do it, where you like make the adjustments and you're like, yeah, we're not going to talk like I don't know. This is me making up rules for my own work where I wouldn't have to do the hard thing. There are nachronisms no matter what. It's like, you know, it's like there has there has to be and it's like, you know, I was I was watching marian Into out on the plane. I was just going to bring that up and I

was like, okay, but this still works. It still works even though she has like it tells her story, you know, Chuck Taylor's or whatever the thought it's just stylized. Yeah, does she wear a converse? Okay, they're like going for like there's like and the soundtrack is like fully contemporary and like she wears like you know, footwear of that's modern and she like, you know, I think to like she doesn't have an accent, like we're telling the story.

She speaks like hairston Dunes the um. But then there was enough Oh what like Shakespeare in Love, you know what I mean, Like was that home movie. I'm like Shakespeare language Shakespeare, you know, because even it's a good one too, because even Shakespeare, because even shakespeare writing was stylized, right, no way, it's not like they all talked in like also like Shakespeare. You know what I think is a funny thing to say about Shakespeare. It's like so like

whatever I mean, it's very subtle. I mean, it's very not I'm overly building up. But I love to do that because I kind of feel like why like trick you know, like what I'm about to say, it's not

that interesting, okay, but it's slightly amusing to me. And it's just like it's like a funny I find it fun and funny to say Shakespeare is not funny because like you know how like I love like you know, like how there's like you kind of want to in comedy, like I mean, or in anything, right, like appreciate the classics, like look like like Moliere was big for me, you know what I mean. And it's like and you're like like you try to read it or something. You're like

You're like, you're like what kind of day? I'm like whatever, like go like those are the things that get Are you saying that you like library sales where I'm like, you know, like my stand up is going to be informed by like balls for me? Yeah, yeah, I am an amalgamation of everyone who's come before. I agree with you, Shakespeare is not funny. I took. I took a camp.

I took like a week long day camp when I was in seventh grade where it was like a Shakespeare camp and we just a unit was learning how to insult someone with Shakespeare until the dumbest, at least cool thing I've ever encountered. Honestly, I feel it's like I feel like it's like asked an answer that I say this, all the listeners are gonna be like, yeah, which we know, but I don't get Shakespeare, okay, so you know everyone's gonna be like girl, no, no, no. I think the

people will make up a good point. Flotsam and Jetsam okay, I honestly, because it's actually flats of one of them was very well read, and Jetson was like the dumb one who like watched Real Housewives. Um, okay, it is time. Now. This is our segment on our show where we take one minute to reel again something in culture. You may know what if you're a listener of this show, it's called I don't think so honey, And we very much

appreciate will this episode come out before after our live show? Okay, well, we we love that you came out to our live show at the Bellhouse. Then, um, and we had we all had a fabulous time, and we're gonna get you on one of them since yes, because we need it. Have it all right, So, um, you have I have one. It's based on a shared experience we just had. Oh I think I have one similar Okay, and it's going to be different, but I can tell it's gonna be different.

But okay, we'll see. This is Matt Rodgers. I don't think, so hony. His time starts now. I don't think so honey. When you go see a play and in the theater people are unwrapping food, you have been told it's like crazy. And I actually think this is even worse than the cell phones going up, because you can forget that your cell phone was on. You can't forget what it sounds like you're unwrapping a piece of candy. I don't think so, honey.

It is so loud, and then guess what you trying to like, do it quieter is making it worse because you're elongate. Everyone listening to it, So you need to please, honestly, if you're watching a player or whether there's gonna be a scene, change unwrapp it quickly. Then I don't think so, honey.

If we're in the middle of literally Dina Menzel's last monologue in skin Tight, it's your last emotional and I am I am I wrong, someone started opening the gift wrapper and you literally lost ten seconds of what she was saying. I don't think so, honey, opening things during the thing, I would rather you put set a firework off.

And that's one a minute. But here's the thing that you know, what happened during her last monologue was also a cell phone coming off there honestly was It was crazy, yes, And here's the thing they obviously we're all concerned about the cell phones going off during performances like that's something that they went on for a minute long time. And also there was one of the USh was like running up and down the aisle, was trying to find who it was. And it's just like a girl, I can't

believe this. Someone went with strict denial, but you don't acknowledge that it's your phone. You're like, no, it can't be. I know, I know, I can't be the assholet no, just turn it off. And also, honestly, honestly, there was there was someone right in front of you guys, yeah, right in front of us who was who was unwrapping And I was just like, god, like, I know, I feel like I'll feel like a dick being like excuse me stop, but like excuse me stop, and it's like

it's a rule. And he got the theater, his partner, whoever he was, its chastise and they were like stop unwrapping, and then he got louder and he raised. It's like an indignance. It's like it's like the thing of like when someone is like knows they're wrong, but it can't take it. And honestly, it probably was like a lot of stuffy, older white guys in there, And honestly, that

is another thing. It's like I don't think so honey, these people at the theater who are a certain demographic who can't live without their phones being on full fucking volume and blast. It's like, guys, come on, and then you're the one who's telling our generation that we're inappropriate, like you're inappropriately. Seriously, the behavior at the theater by these people and the unwrapping of candy, it is really sick. I know Joe appreciates it because he comes from the theater.

I appreciate this deeply as well. Thankank you. We almost we saw this. We saw for people to be mentioned, we saw skin tight. We well, yes, we saw skin tight roundabout theater company's skin type. It was lovely. I loved whenever I see Adina Menzel on stage. I'm like, oh, there's a Dina Menzel, you know what I mean. She is a star. And I'm like, you're like, oh, yeah, she's great. She's a Tony winning yes, and like, honestly, there are so many there's there's like so many like

it's a place. It's not a musical. So if you're going to see her, give you Adiana vocals, you're gonna see her ground at Adina acting. And it was fun and it was about like some interesting things. Um, so we would recommend seeing skin tight. So Honey is going to be um from the same experience. Wow, And this is I don't think so honey, and his time starts now. I don't think so Honey. The a gay gentleman who sat next to me at skin Type, who fucking read me when I said when I compared. First of all,

I was talking to Manson who came over. We didn't we're not seeing together, but man City came over during intermition. They were like, how do you like the show? I was like, I like it. It It reminds me of like um, it's like it's like a modernized Neil Simon play. And then this this fucker had the audacity to butt into this conversation that he was not a part of, and he said, well, let's not be too generous, okay, And I was like, ah ha ha fun But then which

which isn't even in the issue? Well, I mean one, it is an issue rude. But then during at que there's this there's just there's just comedic pattern. There's a callback to like these people like putting on like botox, and it's funny. But then then he goes then he taps my shoulder and says, okay, now it's Neil Simon, and I go, sir, do not bother me while I am trying to enjoy this play. And so first of all,

I was right, thank you for acknowledging my correctness. But I don't think so, honey, that man, And that's one minute. You know what, these people they think they run ship and they get it. They can get away with all their nonst it. Really this is a delay. I wish we were going to the theod tonight. On this we can show them how eat. Okay, I get being hungry, I get wanting snacks, like working into like a cloth bag,

like figure it out. We're just like, yeah, just literally, well you don't need it, right, I'm coming up with the most like if someone cloth bag with a soft like, if you can like sneak soft chocolate in your mouth, go for it. Do that the slow like And I've known the shame and I actually believe in the movie there and I think, I'm sorry the podcast is over, but I just want to say one thing, which is

and I think you'll you'll appreciate. I actually weirdly believe that the snacks they sell the movie theater and the noises they create are part of the deal. Yeah, And so it's almost like maybe if it's a silent moment in a quiet place and you go, you know, you try to be reasonable with yours or whatever. But I believe that those are all fair game in movies because they're part of the movie. The movie going experience is different also because you're not paying seventy dollars for a ticket,

like you're in the same room. You're in the same That's what I'm saying. If you can hear it, and they can hear and honey, we can all hear. And I think what needs to happen is we need to have a progression where the just the voice coming up before the play is not going to be enough. I think I think an Austra needs to get on stage and be like, Hi, guys, thank you so much for coming. Due to constant issues, we are going to have to

ask everyone right now to turn off their phone. And this is going to be a reminder at this time that it is not appropriate to unwrap snacks are in the part? Can I get a verbal yes? This is what they do at path Mark, I mean not path Mark, Landmark cinemas but for talking and wonderful. Literally a guy comes out and says welcome, like absolutely, and zero screen policy doesn't matter what you're doing, just you pulling out your phone at all in the light it I think

we need to they do. They do a similar thing in Alamo Draft Pass where after one warning if they will come to you if you pull your screen out and they say please leave. And also I feel like it is yes, yes. And also the thing that they do sometimes that like Alamo Drafthouse, which I don't think is maybe enough or maybe not going about it the right way is they'll have like a funny video before the movie, which is like turn your phone off, like a funny video, like like the Little Evan the Little

Red Things are like maybe ruined the movie. Yeah, it's like girl, it's not don't be don't be pressed. I

don't think it's funny. Girls not show me. I mean we can talk about this, like like I'll have to come back to talk about but like are like play like in life is about noise in the movie theater and talking and how the two of us are going to handle it, Like we got like a real fight, like like with someone in a lady where Yeah, because I turned around one hundred and eighty degrees to face them when they were like like making like homo pheltic

coffin like and like whatever, and I turned around and stared. And then like Chris knows he's not allowed to say anything because because it's like he's too scary. So if he says stuff like it's gonna like trigger a fight. When it comes from it's like, we take it seriously because we're not going to right. But then when they disrespect me in response, then Chris is like, oh, no, you didn't you know, And then he's like he's like like defending then he launches into defending me. I hadn't

prepared for that everything anyway, Yeah, honestly, more respect. There was one moment where Sydney Washington, my seat made, did speak out in the middle of the play. And it was when the Dina Menzel comes down the stairs on like a great dress at the end and she goes, Sydney goes, oh, she didn't come to play with these others like out loud, and I was like, yeah, that's okay, fair enough, and especially in that fucking audience, like just all like he was out of the window. I' gonna say,

a bunch of bridging tunnelers. Honestly, maybe like people who feel entitled to come in because they up and age. There you go, I mean not not to that sounds ages classes. If they're not acting like that, we wouldn't have reason to talk about it. It's unacceptable. Okay, great, Jacqueline, it's time for year. I don't think so, honey. Oh no, I'm not ready. I totally forgot weight. What do you think you don't know? I had it and then and then I had three ways. Let me just revisit. Um no,

I've paniced, ground me in something. Just give me the topic. The topic is going to the theater. Alright, Well, I guess I could do, like, wait, what bothers me in acting? All right, it's too hard to explain? All right? Let me think, um yeah, But oftentimes when you think it's hard to explain, but then you find immediately get going. If I were to give you this, I don't think so, honey, Goldilocks, not the story, the person who's the person like the girls herself to negative of it. I don't know I

could do. I don't think so, honey. Gina Davis or I could do. I don't think so, honey, Marissa tom Oh my god, that's so funny. Um, I mean, let me try Goldilocks first, Okay, I don't this is this is Jack Lenovac's trouball. I don't think so, honey, topic because she's decided to go into the trouball and this is your topic. Is Goldilocks, not the story the person and your time starts now Goldilocks. I don't think so, honey. I'm tying your nonsense, okay, And I'm tired of, frankly

hearing about you. Your story doesn't mean anything to me. Sorry, trying different things that come in different sizes, Like that's not like deeply spiritual or like archetypal in any way, Like that doesn't deserve to be something that's referenced, like, oh that's the Goldilocks theory. Oh that's the gold luck story. It's like what did you do? You walked into sometimes

when they weren't there? Wow, I don't know, Like I don't like that, Like that's shocking, particularly because like they were bears, right, I guess there were bears, And it's like, so who wouldn't be afraid to go into the bears house, like you're safer in there with the bears are outside, exactly, like she didn't do anything courageous. If there's time of something obnoxious about obviously like her trying all the beds whatever, like people. But it's generally the fact that my problem

isn't that. It's not that she's a bit. The problem is that she thinks her story is worth telling. It's not you didn't do it's not it's not worth telling. I don't think so seconds. I don't think so, honey, you're not enough to endure. That's one minute she's told this young girl in the industry Goldilocks, that she's not I mean that was a pretty splendid I don't think so, honey. Hell yeah, yeah, you suble because I panic this, I

panic with choices. But that's because guess what, No, it is king and actually this is the I want my This is gonna be big for me. I need more things pushed on me, like you like more improvising in your life. But yeah, are just like forced no, no, no one should force you to do something you don't want. But Jaqueline, if you have an open invitation to send us a record, and I don't think so many at

any time. Yes, and we'll use it as our segment, which is Voicemamo, which we're always But what about Goldie Lucks? It won't be replace right, No, no no, no, no no, Goldilocks is canon for I can't believe that she went in there and tried all the beds. Unbelievable. That's insane because guess what, you don't know who was in there. It's just it's insane for you to do. What is that entitled? She thought? But she thought she was being interesting by

doing it. That's what she told. Someone has done it and gone about her life. But that is the big story from the life, doesn't seem And also it's a story that we keep telling. Is that an astops fable? I don't know if it's a stop or if it's the brothers grand whoever. It's like it's only utilized. I'm done, but it's like it's only utilized for this, like for metaphors, but there it's a meaningless metaphor. It's meaningless. But it really is really cold. Really, what is the story at

the end of it? That we like averages, stay out of things, whatever, it's pushing the status quo. It's pushing the middle. You know what you are. It's forcing assault towards the middle, and that makes it very dangerous. Um. This has been This is one of our more intellectual episodes. We dove into culture, we waded through it, and I don't trust me because of the reference to open water

again spoiler alert. We branched out into different topics and I'm not just saying that as a reference to the link tree, but check out Jacklin's link tree on her Instagram and also maybe a good title of that would be the link tree tree. Or we've got some other promote their brand, like when I haven't yet been sure. If the tree isnt work out, the tree will work. You are originating. You are the pre eminent riffer on link in bio, which is a lie. Everyone will see

the evidence that it's a lie. I think it's funny thing to stay around the house, around house, around the house. Let's end a song as we always do. Yeah, I want who all right? Where? Not? Oh? L yes? R D right baby? Oh, I'm Michelle. You will know me for more serious fair in the future. I will earn many nominations. Controversially, never whine for this episode of the podcast bye, Thank you, Jacqueline. This has been a Forever Dog production executive produced by Brett Bohum, Joe Cilio, and

Alex Ramsey. For more original podcasts, please visit Forever Dog Podcasts dot com and subscribe to our shows on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Keep up with the latest Forever Dog news by following us on Twitter and Instagram at Forever her Dog Team and liking out page on Facebook. M